Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible - discrepancies between targeted

[Alan Gresley]

Alex Robinson wrote:

 
> http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/cssjunk/ie8/xua
> 
> In a nutshell, IE8's emulation of IE6 and IE5 does not appear to be 
> off to a flying start.
> 
> 1. Box model not honoured when targeting IE6 and in standards mode
> 2. Parsing errors not replicated when targeting IE5.
> 
> Can someone confirm that the results show here are correct, or point 
> out what I'm doing wrong?


Are you testing in IE8 on a virtual PC? I have IE8 (over written IE7) and I can 
toggle each mode and all three test will show different results.

http://css-class.com/test/images/IE8~5q.png
http://css-class.com/test/images/IE8~7s.png
http://css-class.com/test/images/IE8~8s.png

But when I initially came to the page.

http://css-class.com/test/images/IE8~mystery.png

This would mean that it critical which mode of IE8 your in when enter the page. 
Once you start toggling that take precedence over the meta.

background: #ffcc00;
backg\round: #006633;
width: 400px;
wid\th: 300px;

Maybe testing with just one escape may show a difference.

My bundled IE5 and IE6 now are using my IE8 conditional comments (pale yellow 
background for the header).

http://css-class.com/test/images/ie5-ie6-ie8.png

So this means that when using IE8 conditional comments to test correctly, you 
need a virtual PC or separate PC.

Alan

http://css-class.com/

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[css-d] IE8 toggling the wrong tab - first one only

[Alan Gresley]

Hi Everyone


If you have two or more tabs open, IE8 will only toggle different modes for the 
first tab, regardless of if your viewing the second or third tab along.


Alan

http://css-class.com/

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Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible - discrepancies between targeted behaviour in IE8 and actual behaviour

[Bruno Fassino]

Alex Robinson wrote:

>>>   >>   2. Parsing errors not replicated when targeting IE5.

>>>   div#parsing
>>>  {
>>>   ...
>>>  background: #ffcc00;
>>>  backg\round: #006633;
>>>   ...
>>>
>>>   Real IE5 colours the div yellow, emulated IE5 gets carried away
>>>   and repaints it green.
>>
...
> So it looks as if IE8 is actually using IE6's parsing engine in
> conjunction with the IE5 box model.


At the moment I'm not sure of anything, but isn't this the intended
behavior?

This trigger "quirks mode", or more precisely "IE7 quirks mode" (which is
nearly identical to "IE6 quirks mode".)
And in IE7 (and IE6) quirks mode, they never tried to emulate old parsing
bugs of IE5.x, just the box model and other rendering things.
So even if this is called "IE5", they simply wanted to emulate "IE7 quirks
mode". And this is what we see.
Of course, I might be completely wrong :-)

Bruno

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Re: [css-d] Targeting IE8 (was: IE8 is better but still slightly broken)

[Alan Gresley]

Mark Richards wrote:


> I'm curious as to why you're targeting various IEs with hacks when
> conditional comments let you do the same thing?  Especially if the hacks
> are used to import external sheets in the first place, it seems to me
> it's easier to just use CCs to load browser-specific fix-up sheets in
> the first place.
> 
> Mark R


I don't do fix ups, I do rescues :-)

What may be easier for you is the complete opposite to what is easy for me 
(well at this precise moment in time that is). Why are you suggesting in the 
first place to pollute your source with different conditional comments on every 
single page of a site. That seems like to much work and maintenance for me. Is 
that what you do?

Please take a look at the source of my (old template) which I see offline in my 
NoteTab.



In the source you will find this line after the linked style sheet.





Now after reading the text in the above include you will possibly now be 
reconsidering why you have hard coded those conditional comment in the first 
place.

Take a look at my source again which I see offline and look at the tail end of 
it. In one of those includes is this line of code.



All I have to do is pull that line of code out of that include when IE6 
disappears over the horizon (2020). This is the filtering hack I'm now using.

/*\*//*/
@import url("test-ie8.css");
@import("test-ie.css");
/**/
@import test-ie; /* For IE5~7/Win */

The second import is for IE/Mac. Please note my message to Alex. IE8 
conditional comment will target bundled IE versions. So testing really becomes 
a mess when using conditional comments.

I not targeting browsers but filtering the good browsers out of disastrous mess 
and rescuing others from the abyss. I have finished the template now and it now 
appears live.

http://css-class.com/test/

Alan

http://css-class.com/

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Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible - discrepancies between targeted

[Alan Gresley]

Alex Robinson wrote:

> http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/cssjunk/ie8/xua
> 
> In a nutshell, IE8's emulation of IE6 and IE5 does not appear to be 
> off to a flying start.
> 
> 1. Box model not honoured when targeting IE6 and in standards mode
> 2. Parsing errors not replicated when targeting IE5.
> 
> Can someone confirm that the results show here are correct, or point 
> out what I'm doing wrong?

IE8 in IE5 quirks mode will not honor any escapes in the background property.

http://css-class.com/test/bugs/ie/8/escapes2.htm

Maybe they just chose to support particular properties?

Alan

http://css-class.com/


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Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible - discrepancies between targeted behaviour in IE8 and actual behaviour

[Michael Adams]

On Fri, 07 Mar 2008 22:50:06 +
Alex Robinson wrote:

> http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/cssjunk/ie8/xua
> 
> In a nutshell, IE8's emulation of IE6 and IE5 does not appear to be 
> off to a flying start.
> 
> 1. Box model not honoured when targeting IE6 and in standards mode
> 2. Parsing errors not replicated when targeting IE5.
> 
> Can someone confirm that the results show here are correct, or point 
> out what I'm doing wrong?

Could be as simple as expecting a Beta to behave like a full release.
I heard somewhere (unreliable) not all proposed CSS is implemented yet
in this Beta. It is just a for developer comments version. They expect
feedback to improve it.
http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/03/06/ie8-and-css-2-1-testing.aspx

-- 
Michael

All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall
be well

 - Julian of Norwich 1342 - 1416
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Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible - discrepancies between targeted

[Bruno Fassino]

On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Alan Gresley wrote:
>
>  IE8 in IE5 quirks mode will not honor any escapes in the background property.
>
>  http://css-class.com/test/bugs/ie/8/escapes2.htm
>
>  Maybe they just chose to support particular properties?


As I wrote in another message, I believe this is intended. Quirks mode
in IE6, IE7 has always worked as such, i.e. NO emulation of that (and
others) E5 parsing problems.

Bruno

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Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible - discrepancies between targeted

[Alan Gresley]

Bruno Fassino wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 10:27 AM, Alan Gresley wrote:
> >
> >  IE8 in IE5 quirks mode will not honor any escapes in the background 
> > property.
> >
> >  http://css-class.com/test/bugs/ie/8/escapes2.htm
> >
> >  Maybe they just chose to support particular properties?
> 
> 
> As I wrote in another message, I believe this is intended. Quirks mode
> in IE6, IE7 has always worked as such, i.e. NO emulation of that (and
> others) E5 parsing problems.
> 
> Bruno


All course, never though about that. Only the properties that relate to the old 
box model will work when using escapes. So that would mean width, height, and 
maybe padding, borders and margins.

Thinking about it the IE team intentions are really good. There IE8 mode, IE7 
Strict mode and IE5 quirk modes all reflecting how the the author has coded the 
CSS and if a strict doctype appears or no doctype is present. The only parsing 
problems retained are those that IE7 had.

http://css-class.com/test/css/selectors/ie/import-hacks.htm

Only IE8 standard mode will show all green. And this seems to apply to all the 
import test that Georg has. From the various questions of correct parsing that 
IE team members have requested feedback on on the CSS WG list I believe they 
wanted IE8 to parse CSS correctly. I have spoken to soon.

http://css-class.com/test/css/selectors/commented-selector.htm

My notes say that IE7 will ignore html/**/>body and show the second line red, 
IE8 in IE7 mode shows this line green. Can anyone please confirm that the 
second line is indeed red in the real IE7?

Alan

http://css-class.com/

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[css-d] IE8 non scrollable overflow auto on pre

[Alan Gresley]

Hi Everyone

There is a IE8 bug with overflow on floated elements. On this page.

http://css-class.com/test/css/overflow/floated-overflow-length-with-inner-box-float.htm

Enter the page in IE8 mode, either of these can happen.

1. If the box is scrollable the scroll slowly right and then slowly left and 
note the repeated background.
2. The box is not scrollable.


When I was first checking in IE8, only the last three boxes were non scrollable 
and the test higher up the page was scrollable but showed the background repeat 
bug. Now I test and find that no box is scrollable so I can not reproduce the 
background repeat bug. If anyone can repeat the background repeat bug can they 
please supply a screenshot that I can use.


I first noticed this overflow bug on floated elements in my Ursidae article.

http://css-class.com/articles/ursidae/

I am using this CSS

pre.code, pre.html {
padding:0 2em 1.7em 2em;
margin:30px 10px;
background: #E4EED2 url(contentback11.jpg) top fixed;
border:3px solid #90C49A;
overflow:auto;
max-width:80%;
float:left; /* DELETE to stop IE8 non scrollable overflow with floated 
element bug */
}

None of the overflow boxes are scrollable. I think this is because IE8 has done 
the same as the other browsers and now clipped the margin and padding, thus 
resulting in the current bug. I never supported this and believed that the IE7 
way of handling padding and margin on overflow boxes was correct.

Alan

http://css-class.com/

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[css-d] IE/Win Calculated offset bug - left:auto

[Alan Gresley]

Hi Everyone


This is may be important for anyone using a Suckerfish menu or left:auto. All 
IE/Win versions including IE8 in some case can not properly offset auto.

IE8 had indeed fixed the Recalculated Offset bug (that's why the IE team kept 
of visiting that page).




But that is after hover. The original Calculated Offset bug in some cases with 
offset is still present in IE8. IE7 and lower always show the wrong offset. 
Anyone who is using absolute positioning and left:auto (and maybe padding on 
the container) will now have to feed any correcting rules for IE7 to IE8 as 
well.







I can not test on IE7 anymore. But these are the like scenarios:

1. Where IE8 now shows correctly, when IE7 mode is (toggled) selected, there is 
no differences. IE7 mode should show the wrong offset in all examples or some 
sites may be broken since it will still use the different rules that is for IE7.

2. Where IE8 is showing the wrong offset (I think with padding on the 
container), IE8 will now need the IE7 rules.

I will attempt to fully complete theses test cases from memory, but I will 
please welcome help from anyone who can compare each example by using one 
machine with the real IE7 and another machine with IE8. I do not trust IE8 in 
IE7 mode anymore to show correct IE7 behavior. :-)


Bruno, you said you were getting confused in another message. I getting 
confused to but with IE8 and toggling. Did you like me overwrite IE7 when you 
installed IE8? I know Ingo used a virtual PC for installing IE8.


Alan

http://css-class.com/

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Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible - discrepancies between targeted

[Bruno Fassino]

On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Alan Gresley wrote:
>
> Bruno Fassino wrote:
>  > As I wrote in another message, I believe this is intended. Quirks mode
>  > in IE6, IE7 has always worked as such, i.e. NO emulation of that (and
>  > others) E5 parsing problems.
>
>
> All course, never though about that. Only the properties that relate to the 
> old box model will work
> when using escapes. So that would mean width, height, and maybe padding, 
> borders and margins.

I'm not sure to understand here. What I was saying is that in IE6, IE7
quirks mode the backslash is always correctly interpreted (there is no
dependence on the property).  So any hacks for IE5.x using that
'escape bug' do not work in IE6 quirks mode. That quirks mode is not a
full emulation of IE5.x (IE8 seems consistently to do the same.)


>  http://css-class.com/test/css/selectors/commented-selector.htm
>
> My notes say that IE7 will ignore html/**/>body and show the second line red, 
> IE8 in IE7 mode shows this line
> green. Can anyone please confirm that the second line is indeed red in the 
> real IE7?

In IE7 the second line is green. Only the third and fifth are red.

Bruno

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Re: [css-d] Column floating below sidebar on IE6

[Geoffrey Sneddon]

On 6 Mar 2008, at 19:23, Geoffrey Sneddon wrote:

>
> On 6 Mar 2008, at 16:52, Ernie Finlay wrote:
>
>> In my IE6,everything looks OK.
>> Content is on the left and sidebar is on the right,starting out at  
>> the same level.
>
>
> I was testing it at school, at 800x600. Also, playing around more  
> makes me think it's the latest post causing it.

OK, I've finally got somewhere with an even more precise cause. The  
bug can be recreated with  and . The issue is with the  
usage of dl/dt/dd (though I'm not sure which is causing it). Totally  
removing all my rules for them makes no difference. Anyone have any  
clues as to what could be causing this absolutely bizarre behaviour?


--
Geoffrey Sneddon


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Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible - discrepancies between targeted

[Alan Gresley]

Bruno Fassino wrote:


> On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 11:40 AM, Alan Gresley wrote:
> >
> > Bruno Fassino wrote:
> >  > As I wrote in another message, I believe this is intended. Quirks mode
> >  > in IE6, IE7 has always worked as such, i.e. NO emulation of that (and
> >  > others) E5 parsing problems.
> >
> >
> > All course, never though about that. Only the properties that relate to the 
> > old box model will work
> > when using escapes. So that would mean width, height, and maybe padding, 
> > borders and margins.
> 
> I'm not sure to understand here. What I was saying is that in IE6, IE7
> quirks mode the backslash is always correctly interpreted (there is no
> dependence on the property).  So any hacks for IE5.x using that
> 'escape bug' do not work in IE6 quirks mode. That quirks mode is not a
> full emulation of IE5.x (IE8 seems consistently to do the same.)


Now I following. Sorry, I'm rather new to CSS and I never had to deal with 
supporting IE5 and IE6 together, and I was basing my thoughts off the results 
of Alex's test. Well what you say there is interesting. Look at Alex's test 
again

http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/cssjunk/ie8/xua

Enter the page in IE8 mode. The last test will show the blue and green line 
shorter. In IE7 strict mode all is well. In IE5 quirks mode all test shows the 
blue and green line shorter. In IE6 all lines are of equal length. So this 
would mean that IE8 is emulating the quirks modes different to how IE6 and IE7 
handle quirks mode. Is this correct?


> >  http://css-class.com/test/css/selectors/commented-selector.htm
> >
> > My notes say that IE7 will ignore html/**/>body and show the second line 
> > red, IE8 in IE7 mode shows this line
> > green. Can anyone please confirm that the second line is indeed red in the 
> > real IE7?
> 
> In IE7 the second line is green. Only the third and fifth are red.
> 
> Bruno


Thank you Bruno, I have corrected the online test. It was one of many test that 
I have off-line which I was testing. Now with IE8 on the seen some of these 
off-line test are great importance when IE8 is emulating IE7 mode or if IE8 has 
the same bugs.


Alan

http://css-class.com/ 


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Re: [css-d] Site check

[Phoebe Taylor]

-gets to work-

I have a question on the .footer validation.  I have before  used a
background color, when designing in HTML in a section or a page
underneath a background graphic, just in case the graphic failed to
load, then the text would still be visible.   Is that improper to do
in css?

Phoebe


On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 1:50 AM, David Laakso
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Phoebe Taylor wrote:
>  > I have been fiddling with...]
>
> >
>  >
>  > I'm a bit OCD when it comes to how things look, but I guess I need to
>  > learn to give up some of that control for the sake of the overall
>  > project.  :)
>  >
>
>
>
>  re: 
>
>  You're looking good, and standing tall. If you're up for it, how about
>  we raise the bar a notch?
>
>  Correct the couple of CSS minor (and you think you have OCD) errors, and
>  validate the CSS [1]:
>  
> 
>  And correct the two markup validaton errors, and validate the markup (on
>  all pages) [2]:
>  
> 
>
>  [1] 
>  [2] 
>
>  Best,
>  ~dL
>
>  PS Validation is the very first thing you'll nailed for with a "site
>  check" subjecy line...
>
>
>
>  --
>  http://chelseacreekstudio.com/
>
>
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Re: [css-d] Site check

[David Laakso]

Phoebe Taylor wrote:
> -gets to work-
>
> I have a question on the .footer validation.  I have before  used a
> background color, when designing in HTML in a section or a page
> underneath a background graphic, just in case the graphic failed to
> load, then the text would still be visible.   Is that improper to do
> in css?
>
> Phoebe
>
>   
>>
>>
>>
>>  re: 
>>
>>  
>> 

 Keep the background-color. Using shorthand properties [1], the CSS is 
written something like this:

.footer {
background: #000 url(graphics/footer.jpg) left top no-repeat;
}

Regards,
~dL

[1] 



>>
>>  

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Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible - discrepancies between targeted

[Bruno Fassino]

On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 4:07 PM, Alan Gresley wrote:
>
>  http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/cssjunk/ie8/xua
>
> Enter the page in IE8 mode. The last test will show the blue and green line 
> shorter. In IE7 strict mode all is well.
> In IE5 quirks mode all test shows the blue and green line shorter.

Ok. And with that page there is no need to use the IE8 "change mode"
of the "developer tools" (which may introduce further complications),
you already have all the three rendering simultaneously displayed.

> In IE6 all lines are of equal length. So this would mean that IE8 is 
> emulating the quirks modes different to how
> IE6 and IE7 handle quirks mode. Is this correct?

No, I don't think so. IE6 and IE7 quirks mode render those three bars
exactly as IE8 quirks mode (last two shorter).
You cannot use that page to see how IE6-7 render those bars in quirks
mode (the page and the included iframes do not put IE6-7 in quirks
mode). You need to modify one of those iframe (changing the doctype)
if you like to see how IE6-7 quirks render those bars. And I believe
they render exactly as IE8 quirks.

Best,
Bruno

-- 
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[css-d] A weird CSS problem in IE7

[Usamah M. Ali]

Hello all,

I'm having a weird CSS behavior that is happening only in IE7. It's a
box that having rounded corners on both top-left & bottom-left sides.
The problem is that one of the rounded corner images always jumps off
its original place and spans into the content area.

Here's a screenshot of the problem for better illustration:
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/5664/ie7weirdxo6.gif

The small image in the middle is supposed to be in place of the red
circle. The CSS technique is a traditional old approach for achieving
CSS rounded corners:




http://sawa.org.sd/search/"; method="get">







The rounded corner images are applied to .search_top & .search_bottom
as follows:
.search_top {
background:transparent url(../images/tlc.gif) no-repeat left top;
height:15px;
}

.search_bottom {
background:transparent url(../images/blc.gif) no-repeat left bottom;
height:15px;
}

This happens randomly. The page loads once with the image spanning
off, and if I refreshed the page it's back to its original place! Also
it's happening only with the top-left image. While I have no evidence,
I'm 100% it's happening only in IE7, not IE6 (having tested in IE
below 6). Needless to say no such quirks in Firefox or Opera.

Thanks in advance,
Usamah
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Re: [css-d] Site check

[Phoebe Taylor]

Wow, learning a lot here.  Now things validate.  I simplified all the
background tags, and I'll go through and attempt the font tags later
today.  (have to go out this afternoon).

Thank you, Mr. Lasko. :)
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Re: [css-d] Site check

[David Laakso]

Phoebe Taylor wrote:
> Wow, learning a lot here.  Now things validate.



re: 

Awesome.

Interested in raising the bar another notch?

Best,

~dL

PS Ain't no "mister" hereabout. Just another bozo on the back of the bus.



-- 
http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] Oldest Browser Currently Testing for

[Tim Palac]

It's all about the user data, baby!  We've got no people using anything
lower than IE6, so I test IE6, IE7, Firefox, Safari, Opera, and that's about
it.  However, I'd really like to know how to test for those several WebTV
users we have visit our site every month (I didn't even know it still
existed until we were reviewing the logs!)

Tim
AIM: TymArtist
http://www.timpalac.com
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Re: [css-d] a picture with in a picture

[T]

If you want an ornate frame, for example, where parts of it overlap the image, 
set the picture as the background image, then place the frame image over the 
top.

For example, each page loads a different image. This is called image.jpg in the 
block below (just replace with your image name).





In your CSS:

#bg_image {
background-repeat: no-repeat;
border: 0;  /*  Your frame IS the border*/
height: (however tall the frame is) px / em / %;
width: (however wide the frame is) px / em / %;
}

Make sure the inside of the frame is transparent, so your background image will 
show through.

This way, you can have a gallery style frame, with intricate patterns, 
gargoyles, or whatever, sticking into the picture area.
I haven't tested this, but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work.

Use .png for the frame, cos it has excellent transparency support.

Hope this works out for you, and I'd like to see it when it's done.


Good luck

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 18:57:18 -0800
> To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
> Subject: [css-d] a picture with in a picture
> 
> Is it possible to have an image showing a picture frame and have that
> as part of the css style sheet.
> 
> Then in HTML on different pages use that frame to cover over an
> image, giving the image a nice decorative picture frame.
> 
> Don't know if I'm pushing the limits.
> 
> thanks in advance
> chris
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[css-d] Bullet list position problem in IE

[adriana escandon]

Hi everyone,

The bullets in the list appear on the last line of the sentence instead of on 
the beginning of the sentence. This only happens in IE because in Firefox the 
bullets work fine.

http://studev.lagcc.cuny.edu/stm/stm03/stm/students.htm

The css for the list:
#inContent {
width: 67%;
float: right;
padding-top: 0px;
padding-right: 23px;
padding-bottom: 8px;
padding-left: 0px;
}
#inContent ul li {
font-size: 1.3em;
font-weight: normal;
width: 100%;
line-height: 2em;
list-style-type: disc;
list-style-position: inside;
position: inherit;
}

Thank you so much in advance,

Ad.



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Re: [css-d] Oldest Browser Currently Testing for

[Karl Hardisty]

On 7/03/2008, at 8:29 AM, david wrote:
Karl Hardisty wrote:
> On 6/03/2008, at 7:03 AM, Rick Faircloth wrote:
> As far as IE goes, I test for IE6 and IE7, nothing lower.
> My data shows no visitors ever coming to my sites with anything less
> than IE6.
> And if they do, well, it's just time for an upgrade.  I'm not jumping
> through
> that many hoops to accommodate so few IE 5 users.
>
> And I make liberal use of conditional comments for IE.  In the years
> to come,
> as standards and browser capabilities change, conditional stylesheets
> are much
> easier to change than hacks, which are no future-proof, either.
>
> Rick
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:css-d-
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of Mark Story
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:36 PM
>> To: 'CSS'
>> Subject: [css-d] Oldest Browser Currently Testing for
>>
>> It seems that my perception of  in the wild browsers was a bit off.
>> As I
>> consider IE 5 for mac to be deceased, however it seems to be alive  
>> and
>> kicking for some.  So I just wanted to get an idea of what the oldest
>> browser you are currently testing for is? And how are you targetting
>> them?  Hacks, conditional comments, other techniques?
>>
>> -Mark
>
> I have recently updated our policies regarding this, after much
> examining of logs of sites we've developed.  For IE it is now 6
> upward as well, with a check to ensure it renders ok in 5.5, and that
> it is readable, if not reference rendering.  In fact, the only
> mention of IE below 6 was in a discussion forum, for which the lone
> user of Mac IE5.2 on OS 9 could change the theme to another which
> rendered fine, so no issue there.  Keep in mind this is more
> representative of the type of sites we do, than the internet as a
> whole, and the ultimate answer is for the developer to examine logs,
> and their own ideas of what they're comfortable with.

And remember this about logs: If you design a site that doesn't work in
browser X, after awhile, you won't have anyone using browser X visit
your site *because your site doesn't work.* Then you'll pat yourselves
on the back and say, "See - no one uses browser X." ;-)

-- 
David
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
authenticity, honesty, community
__

David - you raise a very good point.  This is why it is so important  
to pay special attention to logs immediately after a site update.   
Usage patterns can highlight issues that cursory testing of browsers  
during development may have missed.  A comparison of usage before and  
after is generally a good idea.  If a site design changes, and  
suddenly a certain type of browser/platform combination drops off  
markedly, there's probably a good reason.

Karl
mothership - http://mothership.co.nz
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[css-d] X-UA-Compatible - Discrepancies between targeted behaviour in IE8 resolved

[Alex Robinson]

>>  In IE6 all lines are of equal length. So this would mean that IE8 
>>is emulating the quirks modes different to how
>>  IE6 and IE7 handle quirks mode. Is this correct?


Nope. Or rather I don't think so. I think your original suggestion was correct.

ie. IE=5 actually causes IE8 to emulate IE6 in quirks mode. End of story.

My "error" was to use documents in standards mode as the reference 
point. I have now updated

http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/cssjunk/ie8/xua

accordingly so that it is possible to see the effect of the X-UA 
switch on both standards and quirks mode documents. Along with 
screengrabs of the observed behaviour. If it all gets too much, you 
can switch off the bits you don't want to see (suggestions for better 
text in the legends welcome!)

Now, we can see that IE8's rendering is entirely in line with IE6's 
quirks mode rendering.

We can also see that it is definitely not rendering along the lines 
of IE5 (either 5.01 or 5.5)

This got me wondering if IE8 was actually emulating IE6 or IE7 in 
quirks mode, so I threw together a test suite that pulls together all 
the hacks/filters that have been used to target various versions of 
IE and see what happens when targeting different X-UAs.

http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/cssjunk/ie8/tests


IE=5
---

The results show that IE8 is definitely using IE6 when forced into 
quirks mode by IE=5.

All the results tally with IE6 behaviour and we can rule out IE7 
behaviour because IE8 in IE=5 mode applies the Star HTML selector 
selector (* html) but not the Star plus HTML selector (*+html).

In fact the only slight niggle where IE8 differs from IE6 is that IE6 
only applies the Property + Whitespace + Empty Comment filter to 
documents authored in quirks mode, but IE8 applies it to standards 
mode ones too. But, that is what one would expect really, since the 
IE=5 is an explicit "Give me quirks" switch.

IE=7
---

There is nothing noteworthy to mention about IE7 emulation. It all 
appears to be  consistent.

IE=8
---

The only hack / target combination which does not jibe, is the fact 
the *+html hack also gets applied by IE8 when targeted as IE=8.

To repeat *+html targets IE8[0]. Since this only previously targeted 
IE7, this selector in conjunction with a new selector that IE8 
understands but IE7 does not, gives us a current easy way to target 
IE8. Obviously this is not recommended and hopefully this parsing 
error will be fixed before a final release


 and relax


Final rumination


If you made the foolish mistake of actually choosing to use standards 
mode [1] and make IE6 work in it, then you are not able to rely on an 
X-UA fix. You are doomed to keep fixing each latest variation of CSS 
support that MS foists upon us, regardless of the glib assertions 
that all one needs so is set the X-UA header and you're all done.

So yeah, the business case of using 
standards has been truly proved I think. 




[0] I haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere, but I'm sure somebody has 
already discovered it - probably even on this very list which I 
skimmed merrily over

[1] That would be me - I've never once authored a quirks mode 
document since the distinction existed
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Re: [css-d] css-d Digest, Vol 64, Issue 9

[Robin Whale]

On 6 Mar 2008, at 18:51, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> [KK]
>
> He should look into iCab: it's been around since system 7, the Mac  
> "Classic" version was last updated on 1 January *2008*, it runs  
> quite well on older Macintosh operating systems, and it supports  
> enough CSS (among Other Things) to pass Acid2.


I have used iCab on my Macs for many years and the Classic versions  
always seemed to be in the beta phase, but worked fine and had quite  
a useful html validator built in. I recently DL'd the latest OSX  
version which is one slick browser and is my second choice after  
Firefox and in preference to Safari. It still has the html validator  
which is a useful way to quickly check your sites.
I also have IE 5.2.3, the last version M$oft made for the Mac but  
only use that as a last resort !!!
Any Mac users on this list that haven't tried iCab (or haven't looked  
at it recently) should take a minute or two to check out iCab 4 from  
www.icab.de.
Well worth a look.
Robin
--





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[css-d] position of nav bar

[Carrie Strongwater Drazin]

Hi all.
I have been lurking for a while, posted once, but didn't really
introduce myself.
Are we supposed to?
I am really new to CSS, have read about 3 books on the subject and
taken one course,
but still feel very shaky with it.
My site is http://www.strongwatermedia.com
  I would like to position the nav bar so that it is in line with my
logo.
I am having a lot of trouble with it.
Any suggestions?
Thank you.
Carrie
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Re: [css-d] Mind the Gap: multi-level menu problem

[Alan Gresley]

Ryan N wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> In developing this menu I have encountered a problem with a couple different
> implementations of the code.  Everything look fine in Firefox, Opera, and
> Safari yet IE (6 and 7) displays a 2-pixel gap underneath the  whenever
> a second-level menu item contains and 3rd level menu.
> 
> 
> My menu:
> http://www.dangodang.com/projects/cssmenu/test_menu_3.html
[...]
> Suggestions are most appreciated.
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> Ryan


Ryan, the gaps are there in IE6 because doesn't like the absolute positioning 
you have used. Anyway bumping up the text in any good browsers cause 
overlapping because you have used absolute positioning and heights on many 
elements. You have also used IE conditional comments for the table elements. IE 
doesn't need any of this to have a functioning menu. Even Stu Nichol's main 
menu on his site doesn't use tables any more. CSS Play menus are not the best 
examples around. May I suggest following these links.

http://www.tyssendesign.com.au/articles/css/dropdown-low-down/

or

http://css-class.com/articles/ursidae/

 
Alan

http://css-class.com/

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Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible - Discrepancies between targeted behaviour in IE8 resolved

[Bruno Fassino]

On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 8:54 PM, Alex Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  ie. IE=5 actually causes IE8 to emulate IE6 in quirks mode. End of story.
>
>  My "error" was to use documents in standards mode as the reference
>  point. I have now updated
>
> http://www.fu2k.org/alex/css/cssjunk/ie8/xua
>
>  accordingly so that it is possible to see the effect of the X-UA
>  switch on both standards and quirks mode documents. Along with
>  screengrabs of the observed behaviour. If it all gets too much, you
>  can switch off the bits you don't want to see (suggestions for better
>  text in the legends welcome!)

I mostly agree, but not on the "Rendered by IE 7" and "quirks"
combinations. Your documents now have an xml declaration at the
beginning which puts IE6 in quirks mode, but NOT IE7.
The "Rendered by IE 7" row should be exactly as the "Rendered by IE 6" row.

Bruno

-- 
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Re: [css-d] position of nav bar

[Geoffrey Hoffman]

Hi Carrie,

Always start with a minimalist HTML or XHTML file.You have some unnecessary
 tags in your markup.

Check to make sure your page validates before you style anything. I'm not
saying your page doesn't validate, but step 2 is validation which rules out
broken tags and other issues that have nothing to do with CSS. Browsers try
their best to render broken pages, so you can be misled into thinking your
markup is fine when in fact you may have missed a closing tag somewhere.

To style, break your site down into boxes. Typically, header, content, nav
and footer. It often helps to have a 'wrapper div' around everything, or
around two or more boxes, especially with a multi-column layout. Although it
is possible to use IDs on items like you have it on  I've found
it is often easier to position things if they are inside of  tags, eg.
Link.
Sometimes I purposely put borders of different colors on my CSS for certain
items to make sure it is positioning where I want. If you add borders to
your stuff you will see several things that are either wider or differently
shaped than you thought. Then remove the borders at the end.

To position your nav in line with your logo, you may want to try wrapping
your nav inside a div, with a width, and the float right. Put your div with
the nav before the logo in the markup, otherwise it drops down below. You
could also try putting negative margin on the top of the nav UL, eg
margin-top:-4em;

Do a Google search for 3-column layout css and you'll find a lot of stuff
you could use to get the look you're after.

Good luck!


>
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Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible - Discrepancies between targeted behaviour in IE8 resolved

[Alan Gresley]

Alex Robinson wrote:


> IE=8
> ---
> 
> The only hack / target combination which does not jibe, is the fact 
> the *+html hack also gets applied by IE8 when targeted as IE=8.
> 
> To repeat *+html targets IE8[0]. Since this only previously targeted 
> IE7, this selector in conjunction with a new selector that IE8 
> understands but IE7 does not, gives us a current easy way to target 
> IE8. Obviously this is not recommended and hopefully this parsing 
> error will be fixed before a final release
> 
> 
>  and relax
> [0] I haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere, but I'm sure somebody has 
> already discovered it - probably even on this very list which I 
> skimmed merrily over


I guess you have not seen my activity elsewhere.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.html/browse_thread/thread/47e63edf618e75c3


What the IE team did that night made me very suspicious (see my reply 6 down). 
The page in question is.

http://css-class.com/test/css/selectors/ie7hacktargetingopera.htm


So I did some reverse testing of IE8.

http://css-class.com/cssscript/images.css


By the 13 of February I had the results (IE8 applied *+html and div+*+div) so 
that gave me advance warning to prepare my test.

http://css-class.com/test/


That frantic rush to support that better browser named IE/Mac wasn't for no 
good reason. :-)

The other testing of IE8 involved if it supported any new selectors which it 
doesn't. So I see know way to hack for IE8 without also targeting IE7 (or visa 
versa), unless someone uses my approach in targeting IE8.


/*\*//*/
@import url("test-ie8.css");
@import("test-ie.css"); /* For IE/Mac */
@import test-ie; /* For IE/Win */


Anyway no hacks should be needed for IE8 and you are correct, IE8 will drop 
support for *+html and div+*+div in a later beta since they breaks support for 
sibling selectors and first-child.

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Mar/0049.html


Alan

http://css-class.com/


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Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible - Discrepancies between targeted behaviour in IE8 resolved

[Alex Robinson]

>I mostly agree, but not on the "Rendered by IE 7" and "quirks"
>combinations. Your documents now have an xml declaration at the
>beginning which puts IE6 in quirks mode, but NOT IE7.
>The "Rendered by IE 7" row should be exactly as the "Rendered by IE 6" row.

The screengrabs I'm using are exactly how IE7 (a real version, not 
IE8 emulation or a standalone) renders for me.

Note that even without the *+html declaration in there, IE6 should 
see the * html, and IE7 should not. There is no way that the rows 
could ever be the same.

Ah, I see what you mean. The way I have made it go into quirks mode 
is not actually making IE7 go into quirks mode. My lazy bad. I'll 
change it so it actually uses a quirks-causing doctype.

Done.

You're right about the lengths, but IE7's background colour 
alternates from mode to mode. So not quite exactly the same as the 
IE6 row.

Thanks for picking that up. I was wondering why IE7 wasn't picking up 
* html in quirks mode and was thinking that I must have either just 
hallucinated that I'd seen that behaviour before or that some other 
congruence of bad voodoo had caused it... ;)

And obviously, the IE=7 and IE=8 tests for quirks mode were subtly 
wrong in IE8 too. But that's now fixed.


I'll have to redo the hack tests for IE7 and IE8 in quirks mode too now...
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Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible - Discrepancies between targeted behaviour in IE8 resolved

[Bruno Fassino]

On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 10:22 PM, Alex Robinson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  Ah, I see what you mean. The way I have made it go into quirks mode
>  is not actually making IE7 go into quirks mode. My lazy bad. I'll
>  change it so it actually uses a quirks-causing doctype.
>
>  Done.
>
>  You're right about the lengths, but IE7's background colour
>  alternates from mode to mode. So not quite exactly the same as the
>  IE6 row.


Yes, correct!  When I wrote "exactly the same" I really meant in the
quirks cases. I told I agreed with you on the other ones :-)
Now I agree on all cases.

At this point I think it's hard to say if  with "X_UA  IE=5"IE8 is
emulating IE7 quirks or IE6 quirks, simply because the two are hardly
distinguishable (I guess is more IE7 than IE6.)

Bruno

-- 
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Re: [css-d] Bullet list position problem in IE

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

adriana escandon wrote:

> The bullets in the list appear on the last line of the sentence 
> instead of on the beginning of the sentence. This only happens in IE
>  because in Firefox the bullets work fine.
> 
> http://studev.lagcc.cuny.edu/stm/stm03/stm/students.htm

You can add...

#inContent ul li {
vertical-align: top;
position: relative;
top: -.7em;
}

...to fix that line-up problem in IE7 and older.

List-items will move up ever so slightly (.7em) in other browsers too
when they see this IE-correction, but they'll keep their line-up.

Details can be adjusted across browser-land by trimming the ul, and you
can of cause hack it all in like shown and described here...


regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible - Discrepancies between targeted behaviour in IE8 resolved

[Alex Robinson]

>At this point I think it's hard to say if  with "X_UA  IE=5"IE8 is
>emulating IE7 quirks or IE6 quirks, simply because the two are hardly
>distinguishable (I guess is more IE7 than IE6.)

Yes, my previous claim that we know it's IE6 was founded on the 
assumption that I was serving quirks mode documents when, as any fule 
now knows, I wasn't :(

The parsing errors appear to be the same. Evidence for which engine 
is really being used will have to come from elsewhere. Something that 
shows


Moving on. I've now updated the tests. As I guessed would be the 
case, the tests all stay the same except for the two star html hacks. 
Now things get somewhat interesting.

http://local.fu2k.org/alex/css/cssjunk/ie8/tests/ (again)

IE8 is now exactly the same as IE6 when X-UA is IE=5.

When X-UA is IE=7 or 8 and the doc is in quirks mode, then things go 
slightly awry.

To recap, IE7 applies *+html in standards mode and ignores * html. In 
quirks mode, the situation is reversed.

IE8 in standards mode matches IE7's standards behaviour (for both 
IE=7 and IE=8).

But in quirks mode, IE8 ignores both * html and * + html (again for 
both IE=7 and IE=8).

If declaring IE=7 or IE=8 was enough to force IE8 into the respective 
standards modes, the star+html should be applied. But something is 
obviously going on that is allowing the quirkiness to squash the 
*+html but not enough to bring the * html back into play. How 
peculiar is that?


Disclaimer - yes, remember kids the use of * html (and I would guess 
*+html) have long been discouraged by Microsoft and if you want to do 
anything other than play in the conditional comment sandpit you get 
everything you deserve...

Alternatively, you could draw the conclusion that * html is safe as 
houses for targeting IE6 and under in standards mode (with or without 
an X-UA) and IE7 and under in quirks mode (without an X-UA).
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Re: [css-d] a picture with in a picture

[Rafael]

T wrote:
> If you want an ornate frame, for example, where parts of it overlap the 
> image, set the picture as the background image, then place the frame image 
> over the top.
>
> For example, each page loads a different image. This is called image.jpg in 
> the block below (just replace with your image name).
>
> 
>   
> 
>   
This isn't, IMO, the best approach. The reason is simple: your 
content is in the CSS, not in the page. What you're showing in your 
content is the frame, for every image, the style you add gives the 
actual image. This simply doesn't sound right.

> Make sure the inside of the frame is transparent, so your background image 
> will show through.
>   
[···]
> Use .png for the frame, cos it has excellent transparency support.
>   
Yet another reason not to use it: PNG images don't work in IE6 (and, 
although we all regret this, IE6 is still the dominant browser in the 
real world).

Rafael.
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[css-d] :: layout check :: ~dL

[David Laakso]

I'd appreciate any comments and suggestions on this 6 page comprehensive 
layout for an industrial site. The marketing target is the IE browsers. 
Mac/IE5.2 gets it right.

/Known Issue:/ 147.69 second download on a 56K modem (the images will be 
optimized in the production version).



Thanks,
~dL










-- 
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Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible - Discrepancies between targeted behaviour in IE8 resolved

[Bruno Fassino]

On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 12:18 AM, Alex Robinson wrote:

>  When X-UA is IE=7 or 8 and the doc is in quirks mode, then things go
>  slightly awry.
[...]

>  But in quirks mode, IE8 ignores both * html and * + html (again for
>  both IE=7 and IE=8).


You now have your quirks mode documents with no doctype.
If I put in a quirks mode doctype (HTML 4.01 Transitional, no url)
then IE8 behavior in those two cases changes. It sees the *+html, as
with a standard doctype, like the X-UA IE=8 or 7 overrode the quirks
mode of the document. This is more "expected".

So it seems to be the absence of doctype together with X-UA IE=8 to
create some strange effects...


Well, it's time to say thank you Alex for those useful and interesting
test pages!

Best,
Bruno

-- 
Bruno Fassino http://www.brunildo.org/test
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[css-d] 100% height again

[Rebecca Richter]

Hi! I received a great tip from here a little while ago on how to make a
colum expand to 100% height. I'm now applying this to another design, but
I'd like about 10px padding on the bottom, no matter how high the column is
expanded.

Please see
http://www.blackfootchallenge.org/am/publish/newsite/index.php.threecol and
look at the "Support" center column. This is the css where I added the rules
to expand the column to the bottom:

.col1 {
 width: 34%;  
 left: 108%;
 margin: 0 0 -2000px 0;
 padding: .5em 0 2000px 0;
 background-position: center top;
 background-repeat: repeat-x;
 border: 1px solid #963;
 background-image: url(../images/backgrounds/support_bg.jpg);  
}

How do I add in the 10px bottom padding?

Thanks :)

Becca


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[css-d] navbar breaks in netscape

[Rebecca Richter]

I thought I had this design looking o.k. in IE and FF, but the navigation
bar displays strangely in Netscape:
http://www.blackfootchallenge.org/am/publish/newsite/index.php

When you roll over a link in the navigation bar, the whole page shifts
upward. Also, the spacer between the two different styles of navigation
appears narrower than it should. The dropdown menus have some padding in
between each link, through which you can see the design behind them.

Help! Can I create a Netscape-specific style sheet? If so, how can I do
that?

Thanks,
Becca

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[css-d] IE8 parsing invalid selectors

[Alan Gresley]

Hi everyone

After a bit of a prod I will announce that I have discovered the first parsing 
of invalid selectors in IE8. I worked them out from my use of these imports.

/*\*//*/
@import url("test-ie8.css");
@import("test-ie.css"); /* For IE/Mac */
@import test-ie; /* For IE/Win */


Please close any instances of IE8 since IE8 seem to get stuck in modes 
occasionally. Open up IE8 again and point it at this test case.

http://css-class.com/test/ie8hack.htm


Toggling into IE7 mode will show all green lines. As you may have noted, I have 
embedded the Win/Mac pass band filter within these selectors.


Danger, Danger, please don't hack for IE8, they are still fixing up the bugs in 
IE8 and it various modes. Anyway some of these invalid selectors may target 
IE/Mac.


Now I will continue the hunt for more (valid or invalid) :-)


Alan

http://css-class.com/

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Re: [css-d] :: layout check :: ~dL

[Stephan Wehner]

On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 3:58 PM, David Laakso
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'd appreciate any comments and suggestions on this 6 page comprehensive
>  layout for an industrial site. The marketing target is the IE browsers.
>  Mac/IE5.2 gets it right.
>
>  /Known Issue:/ 147.69 second download on a 56K modem (the images will be
>  optimized in the production version).

Here's a little bit of feedback.

 * I think it's nice to show so many photos, but more supporting text is needed.
 * Also, with so many photos on the pages, shouldn't there be some in
the rather large
banner?
 * Even if you're making the page 968px wide, the banner might be made
to look ok even with an 800px width, or not?
 * The 3px double bottom-border for the headings doesn't work for me.

See you

Stephan

>  
>
>  Thanks,
>  ~dL
>
>
-- 
Stephan Wehner

-> http://stephan.sugarmotor.org
-> http://www.thrackle.org
-> http://www.buckmaster.ca
-> http://www.trafficlife.com
-> http://stephansmap.org
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Re: [css-d] Site check

[Phoebe Taylor]

> re: 
>
>  Awesome.
>
>  Interested in raising the bar another notch?
>
>  Best,
>
>  ~dL
>
>  PS Ain't no "mister" hereabout. Just another bozo on the back of the bus.
>
>
>
>  --
>  http://chelseacreekstudio.com/
>
>

Sure, I'd be up for it.  :)

Just let me know what the next challenge is, dl.


And thanks Shirley for catching my typo.  :)

Phoebe
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Re: [css-d] X-UA-Compatible - Discrepancies between targeted behaviour in IE8 resolved

[Alan Gresley]

Bruno Fassino wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 8, 2008 at 10:22 PM, Alex Robinson wrote:
>
>>  Ah, I see what you mean. The way I have made it go into quirks mode
>>  is not actually making IE7 go into quirks mode. My lazy bad. I'll
>>  change it so it actually uses a quirks-causing doctype.
>>
>>  Done.
>>
>>  You're right about the lengths, but IE7's background colour
>>  alternates from mode to mode. So not quite exactly the same as the
>>  IE6 row.
> 
> 
> Yes, correct!  When I wrote "exactly the same" I really meant in the
> quirks cases. I told I agreed with you on the other ones :-)
> Now I agree on all cases.
> 
> At this point I think it's hard to say if  with "X_UA  IE=5"IE8 is
> emulating IE7 quirks or IE6 quirks, simply because the two are hardly
> distinguishable (I guess is more IE7 than IE6.)
> 
> Bruno


What about using the ID class selector bug or the last class bug.

http://www.brettschultz.com/ie6_exhibit_a.html


IE8 in IE5 quirks mode is showing the last test "Aqua." and first and second 
test red.
IE8 in IE7 strict mode is showing the last test "Aqua." and first test green 
and second test red.

IE6 will show red, red, transparent. The page so happens to have no doctype 
(handy). Would this only happen if it was IE7 quirks? I not sure really if this 
would work. This whole mystery mode thing confuses me. :-)


Alan

http://css-class.com/

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Re: [css-d] a picture with in a picture

[David Hucklesby]

On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 17:38:59 -0600, Rafael wrote:
> T wrote:
> [···]
>> Use .png for the frame, cos it has excellent transparency support.
>>
> Yet another reason not to use it: PNG images don't work in IE6 (and, although 
> we all
> regret this, IE6 is still the dominant browser in the real world).
>

PNG-8 works just fine:

 

Cordially,
David
--

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Re: [css-d] :: layout check :: ~dL

[Thierry Koblentz]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> discuss.org] On Behalf Of David Laakso
> Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 3:58 PM
> To: css discuss
> Subject: [css-d] :: layout check :: ~dL
> 
> I'd appreciate any comments and suggestions on this 6 page comprehensive
> layout for an industrial site. The marketing target is the IE browsers.
> Mac/IE5.2 gets it right.
> 
> /Known Issue:/ 147.69 second download on a 56K modem (the images will be
> optimized in the production version).
> 
> 

Hi David,

It looks nice and seems pretty robust.

I think the 6th row of the table is missing a last cell. 
Also, I think you could do a better use of the summary attribute, maybe by
using something like: This table charts our Distributors and Dealers along
with their address, city, state, contact and phone numbers.

One thing I noticed (and I was surprised by this since you have a link to
Lynx in the footer) is that the site is difficult to navigate via the
keyboard. I'm not a fan of menus at the end of the source code and I believe
when it is done, authors SHOULD provide "skip links". Also, because these
links have no padding nor special styling (:focus/:active), it is hard to
see when they are reached.

HTH,
-- 
Regards,
Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com





 

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Re: [css-d] a picture with in a picture

[Jake Churchill]

Here's a way to get png transparency to work in IE6:  
http://jake.cfwebtools.com/2007/09/17/ie6-png-transparency-fix/ 

--

Jake Churchill 
 Team Leader
11204 Davenport, Ste. 100
Omaha, NE  68154 
http://www.cfwebtools.com   
 402-408-3733 x103 



From: David Hucklesby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 8:25 PM
To: Rafael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [css-d] a picture with in a picture 

On Sat, 08 Mar 2008 17:38:59 -0600, Rafael wrote:
> T wrote:
> [···]
>> Use .png for the frame, cos it has excellent transparency support.
>>
> Yet another reason not to use it: PNG images don't work in IE6 (and, although 
> we all
> regret this, IE6 is still the dominant browser in the real world).
>

PNG-8 works just fine:

Cordially,
David
--

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Re: [css-d] :: layout check :: ~dL

[Luc]

Hello David, 
It was foretold that on 08/03/2008 @ 18:58:15 GMT-0500 (which was
20:58:15 where I live) David Laakso would write:



> I'd appreciate any comments and suggestions on this 6 page comprehensive
> layout for an industrial site. The marketing target is the IE browsers.

David , just a quick remark:

wouldn't it be better to use another alternative for the e-mail? Just
to "try" to limit a bit of spam attack...

 
-- 
Best regards,
 Luc
_

http://www.dzinelabs.com

Powered by The Bat! version 3.99.29 with Windows XP (build 2600),
version 5.1 Service Pack 2 and using the best browser: Opera.

"Flattery makes friends and truth makes enemiesYiddish proverb" 


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Re: [css-d] :: layout check :: ~dL

[David Laakso]

Thierry Koblentz wrote:
>> 
>> 
>
> I think the 6th row of the table is missing a last cell. 
> Also, I think you could do a better use of the summary attribute, maybe by
> using something like: This table charts our Distributors and Dealers along
> with their address, city, state, contact and phone numbers.
>   

Both above, are good solid calls, and corrected to the host/server.



> One thing I noticed (and I was surprised by this since you have a link to
> Lynx in the footer) is that the site is difficult to navigate via the
> keyboard.
> HTH,
>   



I agree, keyboard navigation is important. We'll see if the owner 
agrees. If not, keyboard navigation, will be on me.

Best,

~dL


-- 
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Re: [css-d] :: layout check :: ~dL

[David Laakso]

Luc wrote:
> Hello David, 
> It was foretold that on 08/03/2008 @ 18:58:15 GMT-0500 (which was
> 20:58:15 where I live) David Laakso would write:
>
> 
>
>   
>> I'd appreciate any comments and suggestions on this 6 page comprehensive
>> layout for an industrial site. The marketing target is the IE browsers.
>> 
>
> David , just a quick remark:
>
> wouldn't it be better to use another alternative for the e-mail? Just
> to "try" to limit a bit of spam attack...
>
>  
>   

 off-list reply ***


I am not sure what a spam attack has to do with the nature and purpose 
of the CSS-D list. My understanding is this list deals with the " 
practical application of CSS."

As an off-topic aside, your comment regarding spam /is/ forwarded to the 
site owner.

My own opinion is that there is no way to avoid spam. There are means 
available with open source e-mail clients to filter it. This seems to me 
to be the best approach until something better comes along.

Best,
~dL



-- 
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Re: [css-d] :: layout check :: ~dL

[Tim Offenstein]

At 10:36 PM -0500 3/8/08, David Laakso wrote:
>Thierry Koblentz wrote:
>>>  
>>>
>>
>>  One thing I noticed (and I was surprised by this since you have a link to
>>  Lynx in the footer) is that the site is difficult to navigate via the
>>  keyboard.
>>  HTH,
>>

Hi David,

A lot of screen reader users will navigate via header markup. If you 
put a header tag immediately prior to the UL it will allow them to go 
right to the navigation.

The pages should also have a language declaration.

Recommend using  as opposed to  in the interest of 
semantic markup. There are plans to deprecate the i and b tags 
because they're not semantic, they're presentational.

Best regards,

-Tim
-- 
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Tim Offenstein  ***  Campus Accessibility Liaison  ***  (217) 244-2700
 CITES Departmental Services  ***  www.uiuc.edu/goto/offenstein

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Re: [css-d] :: layout check :: ~dL

[David Laakso]

Thanks to all who have taken time to review the layout. The owner of the 
site and I will consider all of the comments and suggestions presented-- 
even those having nothing to do with the mission or purpose of this 
list: the "practical discussion of CSS and its use."

~dL




> I'd appreciate any comments and suggestions on this 6 page comprehensive 
> layout for an industrial site. The marketing target is the IE browsers. 
> Mac/IE5.2 gets it right.
>
> /Known Issue:/ 147.69 second download on a 56K modem (the images will be 
> optimized in the production version).
>
> 
>
> Thanks,
> ~dL
>
>   
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Re: [css-d] Centered content jumps on insertion of removal of scroll bar

[Michael B Allen]

On 3/5/08, Gunlaug Sørtun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Michael B Allen wrote:
>
>  > I have content that is centered on the page. Problem is - when a user
>  >  switches between a page that does not have a vertical scroll bar and
>  >  one that does (because the content fits within the browser window or
>  >  does not respectively) the centered content jumps left or right to
>  > factor in the insertion or removal of the scroll bar.
>
>
> You have two options:
>
>  1:
>  html {overflow-y: scroll;}
>  ...which I think is the most correct one, but it doesn't work perfectly
>  in all browsers.

This seems to work perfectly in FF and IE so I'd say it's a winner.

Thanks,
Mike

-- 
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PHP Active Directory SPNEGO SSO
http://www.ioplex.com/
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