Re: [css-d] Font size

[Hayden's Harness Attachment]

David
It has been a little busier than normal. However, the CSS and HTML are all 
valid and nothing has changed.

URL: http://www.choroideremia.org/new/crf_header.php

Angus MacKinnon
Infoforce Services
http://www.infoforce-services.com

"Faith is the strength by which a shattered world shall emerge into
the light." - Helen Keller

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Re: [css-d] What are your takes on more then one Stylesheet

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

David Laakso wrote:

I @import hacks for IE/7 and down (regardless of the size or 
complexity of the site) using the same "black magic" method as Georg 
Sortun.


FYI: the "black magic"...

...works extremely well.
Confirmed by IE8b2 ... it only picks it up when it's in backwards
compatibility or quirks mode, as it should.

regards
Georg
--
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Re: [css-d] What are your takes on more then one Stylesheet

[David Hucklesby]

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:13:36 -0500, Sarah Atkinson wrote:
> One thing I tend to do is instead of having all my styles in main.css I will 
> have a css
> folder and in it usualy something like main.css, header.css, footer.css, 
> maybe other
> things that are item specific like menu.css, documenttable.css, sidemenu.css.
>
> I use this so that it¹s easier to find my styles when I need to and I can 
> exclude some
> pages if they are not needed. But some I talk to think everything should be 
> in one very
> long css file.


I would say that "whatever works for you" is just fine. If you wind up
with many different style sheets, you can always combine them on the
server before downloading. Heck, you can even strip white space and
comments at the same time if you are worried about the size.

The download for even very large CSS and JavaScript files need not
be much of a performance hit if you make sure they are gZipped.
Unlike images, which are already compressed, these text files shrink
a lot when zipped.

Cordially,
David
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Re: [css-d] What are your takes on more then one Stylesheet

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Erika Meyer wrote:

Is there a special reason, other than stylistic, that you would 
choose to @import the main stylesheet, rather than directly linking 
to them both from the HTML file?


I have a few reasons for this approach, and they weigh in a bit more on
static sites than on dynamically created sites.

- I prefer to work on, and maintain, as many aspects of site-wide
styling in as few places as possible, and preferably in those stylesheets.

- Being able to manipulate nearly everything from inside the stylesheets
makes it easy and quick to make changes, and reverse them if necessary.
For instance that I can build up one or more stylesheets for alternative
styles - not "alternate" styles, and test them out by changing the
filename in one place, suits my way of working just fine.

- Working on or expanding to other media than "screen" is also something
I find to be easier when it's all kept in those stylesheets.


Can't show you a regular top 'type 2' stylesheet, but here's a typical
one for 2-column layout on my own 'type 3' site...

...and the matching "same look" 3-column stylesheet...


Especially on static sites I'd find maintenance and further development
of something like that a bit too complicated and time-consuming if I
also had to look at and maintain in-page links.

(FYI: my somewhat cryptic CSS file-names refer to the layout-variants
and dates they were originally created, and I keep update logs/notes on
each of them elsewhere - off line.)

regards
Georg
--
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Re: [css-d] What are your takes on more then one Stylesheet

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

Is there a special reason, other than stylistic, that you would  
choose to @import the main stylesheet, rather than directly linking  
to them both from the HTML file?


One advantage of using @import from within the main stylesheet is that  
you can add/delete new/obsolete stylesheets. Using  hard codes  
the stylesheets in the HTML. Of course, the point is moot if you use  
includes for your html templates.




But some I talk to think
everything should be in one very long css file.


It depends, as Georg already pointed out. For bigger sites, I tend to  
have one main stylesheet that controls the overall layout/look/ 
typography/branding. And then, a separate stylesheet targeted at  
specific sections of the site that may need specific colours, etc.  
These are linked after the main stylesheet.


Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://l-c-n.com/





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Re: [css-d] What are your takes on more then one Stylesheet

[David Laakso]

Sarah Atkinson wrote:

One thing I tend to do is instead of having all my styles in main.css
I will have a css folder and in it usualy something like main.css,
header.css, footer.css, maybe other things that are item specific like
menu.css, documenttable.css, sidemenu.css.

I use this so that it¹s easier to find my styles when I need to and I can
exclude some pages if they are not needed. But some I talk to think
everything should be in one very long css file.

  



Guess it depends on what works best and is easiest for you.

On small sites, I use just one style sheet-- too confusing to break it 
up for me.


On larger more and complex sites with numerous exceptions throughout, I 
use multiple classes on the body tag to target these individual page 
exceptions, and @import that style sheet as exceptions.css
Further, and individual page additions and exceptions (to exceptions, if 
you will ) for these pages are dealt with  styles embedded in the head 
of the document.


I @import hacks for IE/7 and down (regardless of the size or complexity 
of the site) using the same "black magic" method as Georg Sortun.


--

A thin red line and a salmon-color ampersand forthcoming.

http://chelseacreekstudio.com/

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Re: [css-d] IE7 and background image links.

[David Hucklesby]

On Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:47:19 -, Ian Young wrote:
> [...]
> Am using background images in menu (don't normally use images but needs must).
>
> Thing is in IE7, the links are not working. I guess this is because there 
> isn't
> anything in the actual link.
>
[...]
>
> http://www.iyesolutions.co.uk/templates/db-test/menu-test2.html
>

Did you fix it? I am getting the link address showing up in the status
bar on hover in IE 5.5, 6, and 7 here. (Win xp pro running under VMware
Fusion on Mac OS X 10.5.) Clicking the links takes me to a 404 page,
as you likely know. But it does prove they can be activated.

What I do see in IE 5.5 and 6 is a barely visible light gray image, due
to your use of PNG (and not PNG-8, which might work for you.)

Cordially,
David
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Re: [css-d] What are your takes on more then one Stylesheet

[Erika Meyer]

Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:

Type 2: "normal with variations".
For sites that have layout variations - not necessarily major
variations, I use one stylesheet for each variation. These are normally
quite small/short stylesheets containing styles for the main source-code
elements and other styles that are unique to a layout-variant.

Into these layout stylesheets I @import the main stylesheet with all
common styles, and also all "corrections for IE7 and older" that should
follow that layout-variant.



Is there a special reason, other than stylistic, that you would choose 
to @import the main stylesheet, rather than directly linking to them 
both from the HTML file?


Erika
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Re: [css-d] Inline styles vs. external style sheet

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Sarah Atkinson wrote:
Right now I am converting all my inline styles to an external 
stylesheet. Many of these styles are a one use style and not re-used 
elsewere(except maybe the both;²>


What true benefit do I get by adding these to as css page vs. leaving
 them inline?


For styles used only on one page, the benefits of moving loads of them
to an external stylesheet are near zero.

However, there's an alternative that may make life/maintenance easier
for static pages, and that is to move all one-page styles into a
style-element in the page head. Usually much easier to keep track of
them that way, and if you see repetitions of a style in several pages
you can later decide when it's something to gain by moving them to the
external stylesheet.

I use this approach extensively, since mine is a static site.

regards
Georg
--
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Re: [css-d] What are your takes on more then one Stylesheet

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Sarah Atkinson wrote:

One thing I tend to do is instead of having all my styles in main.css
 I will have a css folder and in it usualy something like main.css, 
header.css, footer.css, maybe other things that are item specific 
like menu.css, documenttable.css, sidemenu.css.


I use this so that it¹s easier to find my styles when I need to and I
 can exclude some pages if they are not needed. But some I talk to 
think everything should be in one very long css file.



My take is that "it depends on what type of site it is and what the
plans are for it". I usually split site-types into 3 major groups.


Type 1: "normal".
For sites with one layout throughout - without layout variations, I
organize everything in a reasonably good order in one, main, stylesheet.

The only additional stylesheets for such sites are "corrections for IE7
and older", which I normally @import into the main stylesheet. I find it
easier to keep control over corrections, and easier to drop them when
they're not needed anymore, when they're kept separated.


Type 2: "normal with variations".
For sites that have layout variations - not necessarily major
variations, I use one stylesheet for each variation. These are normally
quite small/short stylesheets containing styles for the main source-code
elements and other styles that are unique to a layout-variant.

Into these layout stylesheets I @import the main stylesheet with all
common styles, and also all "corrections for IE7 and older" that should
follow that layout-variant.


Type 3: "evolving/unstable sites with variations".
Sites that I know or expect layout-variations to sneak in on over time,
gets the "type 2" treatment from the start to make it easier to throw in
such variations at any one time without having to mess up the main
stylesheet with its common look/feel/whatever.

Such sites may also reuse some basic styles in one layout-variant, while
needing new basic styles in another layout-variant. To facilitate this I
split the main stylesheet into smaller parts/stylesheets, and can then
@import only the parts needed into the layout stylesheet in question.

In such evolving/unstable sites I use both replace and override as I see
fit, and let the @imports in the top stylesheet for each layout-variant
tell me which pieces that variant consists of.

---

For all 3 types there's usually a wish for a common trend throughout,
giving all layout-variants a somewhat common look throughout. Having a
somewhat common source-code and a main stylesheet takes care of that,
but for more complex sites that is of course only possible if its all
well organized from the start.

I usually optimize for performance, and a multi-stylesheet solution
usually gets punished slightly - slower to get up and running - on first
load. For later loads there's not much of a difference if the
cache-procedure is set up normal at the user-end.

In my own experience - on a very slow connection - there's more to be
gained by writing compact stylesheets (acting on equally compact and
efficient source-code) than by packing them all into one, for the more
complex sites. On the other hand: compact stylesheets may not be all
that developer-friendly, so one may have to strike a balance here.


Personally I find it easier to find my way around in compact code that
is optimized for performance across connections and in browsers, than in
heavily commented and indented stylesheets and source-code. New lines
for each element and good IDs/CLASSes, is enough - for me.

That clearly shows on my own site which is an extreme "type 3" case with
over 30 major stylesheets and at least that many minor ones, that I
@import and link to in all kinds of "strange" orders. That's of course
intentional since the entire site is a test-bed.

I try to make what I create for others slightly more developer-friendly
though, and may even comment and indent the CSS at times :-)

regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] What are your takes on more then one Stylesheet

[Ryan Doherty]

  While this is fine for development and debugging, it's a pretty big  
performance hit for your users to download lots of CSS files.  
Combining them into 1 large file results in a page that loads quicker  
by reducing HTTP requests.


http://developer.yahoo.com/performance/rules.html#num_http

-Ryan


On Jan 22, 2009, at 2:13 PM, Sarah Atkinson wrote:


One thing I tend to do is instead of having all my styles in main.css
I will have a css folder and in it usualy something like main.css,
header.css, footer.css, maybe other things that are item specific like
menu.css, documenttable.css, sidemenu.css.

I use this so that it’s easier to find my styles when I need to and  
I can

exclude some pages if they are not needed. But some I talk to think
everything should be in one very long css file.
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Ryan Doherty
rdohe...@mozilla.com

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Re: [css-d] Inline styles vs. external style sheet

[Dan Gayle]

I believe you are wrong. There are valid reasons for adding inline  
styles.


For instance, when creating a plugin or widget for a CMS or other  
managed site, often the CSS and/or the HTML cannot be modified. Or  
perhaps something is created in the content itself that needs specific  
styling, if the CMS allows for HTML. Specificity problems really can  
be a headache when creating a plugin that creates multiple instances  
of something that must be classed, but cannot be more specific because  
of an outer wrapper's #id'd CSS declaration.


I hope that makes sense?

I feel about inline styles the same way Joan Crawford did about wire  
coat hangers: "No...Inline Styles..Ever!!" The points made earlier  
about file size and maintenance are right on. If you find yourself  
with seemingly no other way to go for an exceptional case, you're  
better off creating a custom class for that particular element than  
using an inline style. That way, you can comment your CSS to remind  
yourself and give others a hint as to why you had to do what you did  
- all while keeping your content and presentation separate.


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Re: [css-d] Drop Caps

[Ron Koster]

At 11:14 PM 1/21/2009 +0100, Gunlaug Sørtun wrote:

FWIW: the basic layouts on my private site...

...are just overbuilt and overstyled versions of "negative margins"...

Once you've understood how "negative margins" work, such layouts are
relatively easy to create and work with.

A different approach for achieving pretty much the same look/feel and
cross-media flexibility can be found here...

...and the HTML/CSS is definitely simpler and should be easier to
understand. Haven't tuned it or added full support for older browsers to
it yet though, since it's just a "proof of concept" example.


Interesting -- thanks, Georg!

Lots to consider... lots to learn... at least I 
won't be bored for the next couple of years!


Ron :) 


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[css-d] What are your takes on more then one Stylesheet

[Sarah Atkinson]

One thing I tend to do is instead of having all my styles in main.css
I will have a css folder and in it usualy something like main.css,
header.css, footer.css, maybe other things that are item specific like
menu.css, documenttable.css, sidemenu.css.

I use this so that it¹s easier to find my styles when I need to and I can
exclude some pages if they are not needed. But some I talk to think
everything should be in one very long css file.
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Re: [css-d] Inline styles vs. external style sheet

[tedd]

At 11:16 AM -0500 1/22/09, Sarah Atkinson wrote:

Right now I am converting all my inline styles to an external stylesheet.
Many of these styles are a one use style and not re-used elsewere(except
maybe the 

What true benefit do I get by adding these to as css page vs. leaving them
inline?

Sarah


Sarah:

What's the benefit of using a computer vs. writing everything on a 
piece of paper?


I believe the answer to that question is going to be as long and 
involved as the answer to yours. And likewise, after several years of 
doing it, you'll still be finding reasons why you should do it.


So, just do it and let yourself discover the answer.

Cheers,

tedd

--
---
http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com
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Re: [css-d] Pragmatic look at our CSS future - ripped from: The CSS Overlords

[Nancy Johnson]

The problem is the custom javascripts etc, that were built into the
application in 2001 and continually are added to since.  I'm not sure
its that unusual.

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 1:59 PM, Monica Nath  wrote:
> Isn't upgrading the IE browser free? I guess it would take the helpdesk
> employee's time.
>
> As one who works for a technologically challenged company, I feel your
> pain
>
>
> 
> From: Nancy Johnson 
> To: Alexandru Dinulescu 
> Cc: Gunlaug Sørtun ; David Laakso
> ; css discuss 
> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 10:46:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [css-d] Pragmatic look at our CSS future - ripped from: The CSS
> Overlords
>
> The problem with getting rid of IE6 is too many internal applications
> especially in the business community will only work in IE6,  like the
> internal application we use.  There is no budget to make the updates
> and I'm sure they are massive.
>
>
>
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Re: [css-d] Inline styles vs. external style sheet

[Virgilio Quilario]

hi,

for me, i always try to create css rules that can be applied to many pages.
as a result, i get consistent layout across pages, a compact css and
html files, and easy styling change to my pages.

cheers,
virgil
http://www.jampmark.com
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Re: [css-d] Inline styles vs. external style sheet

[Highpowered]

Sarah Atkinson wrote:

Right now I am converting all my inline styles to an external stylesheet.
Many of these styles are a one use style and not re-used elsewere(except
maybe the 

What true benefit do I get by adding these to as css page vs. leaving them
inline?

  

Sarah,

I feel about inline styles the same way Joan Crawford did about wire 
coat hangers: "No...Inline Styles..Ever!!" The points made earlier about 
file size and maintenance are right on. If you find yourself with 
seemingly no other way to go for an exceptional case, you're better off 
creating a custom class for that particular element than using an inline 
style. That way, you can comment your CSS to remind yourself and give 
others a hint as to why you had to do what you did - all while keeping 
your content and presentation separate.


If you find yourself having to add a lot of classes, that would be a 
good time to reexamine your HTML structure.


- JCD

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[css-d] IE7 and background image links.

[Ian Young]

Hi all,

 

Long time since I have been on.

 

Am using background images in menu (don't normally use images but needs
must).

Thing is in IE7, the links are not working. I guess this is because there
isn't anything in the actual link.

Have Googled and found nothing, can you help.

 

Test page at 

 

http://www.iyesolutions.co.uk/templates/db-test/menu-test2.html

 

Best

 

Ian

 

 

Ian Young

Director

IY e-Solutions





 

 

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Re: [css-d] Pragmatic look at our CSS future - ripped from: The CSSOverlords

[Ingo Chao]

Even if we can make a site look nearly the same in every browser, we should
not attempt this anymore.

Big sites are getting bigger, and the performance is affected a lot if we
use expressions/scripts and filters for IE. If the site absolutely must
"look" the same, the site is inevitably getting slower and won't "feel" the
same in the end.

Users who still have to use IE6 for various reasons do already know that
they use an inferior browser, they just cannot change it. If a growing site
gets so slow that the usability is affected, then we have to change our
paradigm.

It doesn't have to look the same as long as the usability is preserved. I
think IE6 needs degraded, but functional pages. Functional hacking for IE is
a must, but pure presentational hacking is becoming obsolete.

The first one to be convinced is not the client. I believe we have to
convince our co-workers, since the old paradigm was promoted by us.

Ingo
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Re: [css-d] Inline styles vs. external style sheet

[Cristian Palmas]

I didn't send to the list...

2009/1/22 Cristian Palmas :

> Hi Sarah,
>
> Well, a simple answer is that, without inline style, you have only to
> change the CSS file and not the HTML too. HTML is to give the page a
> structure, CSS for rendering the layout.
>
> The only inline styles I use are:
> - cellspacing=0 for tables when I use the Eric Meyer's Reset
> (http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2007/05/01/reset-reloaded/)
> - use of classes like "to-right", "to-left" for floating blocks of
> content (but not so much: I want the more complete separation possible
> between markup and presentation).
>
> Regards

-- 
~ Cristian Palmas ~
http://www.cristianpalmas.it
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Re: [css-d] Inline styles vs. external style sheet

[Bobby Jack]

--- On Thu, 1/22/09, Sarah Atkinson  wrote:

> Many of these styles are a one use style ...
>
> What true benefit do I get by adding these to as css page
> vs. leaving them inline?

If what you say about 'one-use' is *really* true, just:

1. Smaller HTML files and, thus, faster download and rendering time
2. Less-cluttered HTML aiding readability / maintainability

- Bobby


  
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[css-d] Inline styles vs. external style sheet

[Sarah Atkinson]

Right now I am converting all my inline styles to an external stylesheet.
Many of these styles are a one use style and not re-used elsewere(except
maybe the 

What true benefit do I get by adding these to as css page vs. leaving them
inline?

Sarah
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Re: [css-d] Pragmatic look at our CSS future - ripped from: The CSSOverlords

[Bobby Jack]

> From: Nancy Johnson [mailto:njohnso...@gmail.com] 
> 
> The problem with getting rid of IE6 is too many internal
> applications
> especially in the business community will only work in IE6,
> like the
> internal application we use.
> 
> From: Michael Stevens 
>
> So, who's the rocket scientist that decided it would be
> a good idea to write
> applications with ONE and ONLY ONE viable program to run
> those programs?

Yes, unfortunately we are all paying the price for bad decisions and practices 
undertaken by a) poor application developers b) short-sighted IT departments. 
These past mistakes, together with an unwillingness to rectify them, have cost 
our industry a LOT of money, and have held back innovation dramatically.

This is not to say you cannot ostracise IE6 users from your website. Just be 
aware that some of your target audience will not be able to view your site in 
all its glory. If your site has a target audience of 'everyone', that's bad 
news. If you chose to alienate people accessing from within a poor business 
environment (and, to some extent, those on older hardware), that's completely 
up to you.

- Bobby


  
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Re: [css-d] RE; The CSS Overlords

[Jen Strickland]

I have had ( and surely others have also had) clients who were so  
insistent

the webpage (as designed by their long-time advertising company) be as
static as the printed page that they furnished a JPEG image of the  
desired
page and I was instructed that web page was to consist of that  
single image.


There is very little to be done when the client insists.

Del


When the client insists, it is our responsibility to educate them on  
the nature of the web medium, how many visitors to their site will  
think they are incompetent, how expensive/time-consuming it will be to  
update, how inflexible it is...  and generally, this sort of thing  
would be ironed out before the client becomes a client in the first  
place, via a thorough client survey, project questionnaire, and so on.


As web developers, we have a responsibility to be environmentally/ 
quality-conscious, and not continue to litter the internet with  
garbage.  Refer clients to Steve Krug's book, to web articles, to  
Jeffrey Zeldman's writings -- whatever it takes to discontinue bad work.

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Re: [css-d] Pragmatic look at our CSS future - ripped from: The CSSOverlords

[Michael Stevens]

-Original Message-
From: Nancy Johnson [mailto:njohnso...@gmail.com] 

The problem with getting rid of IE6 is too many internal applications
especially in the business community will only work in IE6,  like the
internal application we use. There is no budget to make the updates and I'm
sure they are massive.

Nancy

--

So, who's the rocket scientist that decided it would be a good idea to write
applications with ONE and ONLY ONE viable program to run those programs?
Writing a stand-alone program is one thing... writing a web application for
use in a browser and targeting the worst browser possible isn't exactly a
smart move. But then again I guess we ARE talking about "big business"
aren't we? No brain trusts there...

Mike


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Re: [css-d] Pragmatic look at our CSS future - ripped from: The CSS Overlords

[Nancy Johnson]

The problem with getting rid of IE6 is too many internal applications
especially in the business community will only work in IE6,  like the
internal application we use.   There is no budget to make the updates
and I'm sure they are massive.

Nancy

On Thu, Jan 22, 2009 at 3:27 AM, Alexandru Dinulescu
 wrote:
> My opinion is that standards for old browsers should be dumped, and then
> force people to upgrade to anything newer. I for one do not offer support
> for anything lower than ie6, and ie6 is paid support. Because it's a pain to
> create and make sure everything works on IE6 quircks, and i dislike the use
> of javascript inside css to get ie6 to behave properly. You can do that by
> simply deleting all your CC for your old sites, how the site renders with
> the main stylesheet is that's how it renders.
>
> I dont think IE6 will live to see 2010 to be honest, already it has around
> 20% of the marketshare, and will drop rapidly, and for those who do not
> upgrade their browsers, then that's their problem, a small sign when you
> enter the website will check for your browser version, if it's IE6 or below,
> FF2 or below, safari 2 or below or etc a big message will appear saying
> "Please upgrade your browser, otherwise this website may not work properly".
>
> And as for the designs to css implementation, almost never will a design be
> pixel perfect transcoded into the HTML, 95% it may be possible, but anything
> above that line, it's just wasted time (and lot's and lots of time).
>
> At least thats my opinion and so far it's profitable.
>
>
> ---
> Alexandru Dinulescu
> Web Developer
> (X)HTML/CSS Specialist
> Expert Guarantee Certified Developer
> XHTML: http://www.expertrating.com/transcript.asp?transcriptid=1879053
> CSS : http://www.expertrating.com/transcript.asp?transcriptid=1870619
> RentACoder Profile:
> http://www.rentacoder.com/RentACoder/DotNet/SoftwareCoders/ShowBioInfo.aspx?lngAuthorId=6995323
>
> MainWebsite: http://alexd.adore.ro
> Portofolio: http://alexd.adore.ro/project_page.php
>
>
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[css-d] Problems with max-width, right aligned div and remaining height design

[Olivier Sannier]

Hi all,

Let's consider the following two pages:

http://photos2.obones.com/photo.php?NoPhoto=483
http://photos2.obones.com/photo.php?NoPhoto=484

I'm using the suggestions from Patrick Vanbergen 
(http://www.patrickvanbergen.com/dhtml/remaining_height.html) to have a 
display where the bottom div takes the remaining height of the page and 
displays a scroll bar when the content is higher.
This works just fine in Firefox but with a minor quirck under IE7. As 
one can see, I put a gray background on the hbox class to show that the 
vbox inside it goes outside its parent when displayed under IE7. I'm not 
sure where this comes from and while I'm working around it right now by 
adding a fake margin, I'd rather have a definite solution for IE7.

That's the first problem, but it's a minor one.

The second issue is with the "item" div which gets applied the 
"photo_scrollbox" style.
What I would like is for it to stay at the top of the "vbox" div whether 
it is scrolled or not. This works under Firefox, but not under IE7.
Then, I would like it to be placed at the right of the page, not at the 
left as it is now. I played with various attributes, but I could never 
get it to be at the right side of the page while not being beneath or 
above the displayed scrollbar.


And finally, the third issue is with the display of the photo at the 
center. I apply a "max-witdh" property to it which is understood by both 
FF and IE7 as I indicated my pages are XHTML1.0 compliant. Using HTML4 
was making IE ignore the max-witdh property.
It works just fine as photo 484 is too large and gets resized to fit in 
the available display width. The problem comes when I resize the browser 
window as I would expect the image to resize to match the new window 
width. This works just fine in IE7, but this time it is the Firefox 
browser that seems to ignore max-width when resizing.


I know that the "remaining height" layout requires non conventional 
styles but after having looked around a while, it's the only solution 
that was good enough for this type of rendering. If another more 
standard way is available, please let me know.
Compatibility with Firefox 2 and IE7 is required, while compatibility 
with other browsers is only a bonus and is not required for now (and 
will most likely never be required).


Thanks a lot in advance for your help.
Regards

Olivier
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[css-d] [Fwd: Replacing HTML Table Align in CSS]

[Kamru Miah]

Thanks to all those who responded to my previous email. The problem has 
now been resolved (with margin: 0 auto).


Kamru

 Original Message 
Hello,

Could someone advise me how to replace the depreciated HTML table align
property with CSS equivalent please? e.g. 

Many thanks,

Kamru
--
**
* Mr Kamru Miah Email: k.m...@csl.gov.uk *
* Information Systems Team  Tel.: +44 (0)1904 462290 *
* Central Science LaboratoryFax.: +44 (0)1904 462111 *
* Sand Hutton, York YO41 1LZhttp://www.csl.gov.uk*
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Re: [css-d] Footer-problem

[Ib Jensen]

2009/1/22 Bobby Jack and Gunlaug:

> --- On Thu, 1/22/09, Ib Jensen  wrote:

>It does!
>You have 'height : 100px;' on your footer, and all browsers but IE6 and
>older honor that height - which is too short for the footer's content.
>The result is correct and looks "interesting", but wasn't quite what you
>wanted, it seems

Your correct, I'm wrong :[

I've set a heigth that was to low for the content in the footer, thats
clear for me now, after thinking about what the pictures shows.


>If you wrote a web page containing nothing but "hello, world" and IE displayed 
>a 3-dimensional view of the Sistine Chapel,
>that wouldn't be correct behaviour, even if it were beautiful and exactly what 
>you wanted! :)

This could be a very interesting thing to a competition about writing
something, and get it to look like something else.


But off course your right, behaviour and what I want is two different
things. But sometimes I whish they were the same.


-- 
Regards / Mhv.
Ib K. jensen - http://ikjensen.dk
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Re: [css-d] Footer-problem

[Bobby Jack]

--- On Thu, 1/22/09, Ib Jensen  wrote:

> Considering that FF, belongs to the "better part"
> of the browsers,
> I've would have expected that FF had shown it more
> correctly than IE
> in this case.

Ib, as pointed out in my earlier response to your post, Firefox (and all the 
other more standards-compliant browsers) *ARE* displaying that correctly - 
they're honouring the spec. Just because it looks like you want it to, doesn't 
mean that the display is correct. If you wrote a web page containing nothing 
but "hello, world" and IE displayed a 3-dimensional view of the Sistine Chapel, 
that wouldn't be correct behaviour, even if it were beautiful and exactly what 
you wanted! :)

- Bobby


  
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Re: [css-d] Footer-problem

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Ib Jensen wrote:

Considering that FF, belongs to the "better part" of the browsers, 
I've would have expected that FF had shown it more correctly than IE 
in this case.


It does!
You have 'height : 100px;' on your footer, and all browsers but IE6 and
older honor that height - which is too short for the footer's content.
The result is correct and looks "interesting", but wasn't quite what you
wanted, it seems.

IE6 (and older IE/win versions) however does *not* honor declared
dimensions if/when the content is too large, and the buggy result just
happens to suit you better.

regards
Georg
--
http://www.gunlaug.no
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Re: [css-d] Footer-problem

[Ib Jensen]

2009/1/22 Gunlaug Sørtun :
> Ib Jensen wrote:

 Link : http://ikjensen.dk/test/common/blank.html
>
>>> The "auto-expansion" bug in IE6 and older.
>
>> Well, then I hope that I somehow can get FF to look like IE in this
>> situation. Because IE is showing the Footer as I want it to look.

> The difference is that good browsers will "auto-expand" the footer
> because they're told to do so, and not because they're buggy.


Considering that FF, belongs to the "better part" of the browsers,
I've would have expected that FF had shown it more correctly than IE
in this case.

But, I'm still learning something new about browser behaviors every day.

Thanks for your hints and solution



-- 
Regards / Mhv.
Ib K. jensen - http://ikjensen.dk
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[css-d] Replacing HTML Table Align in CSS

[Kamru Miah]

Hello,

Could someone advise me how to replace the depreciated HTML table align 
property with CSS equivalent please? e.g. 


Many thanks,

Kamru
--
**
* Mr Kamru Miah Email: k.m...@csl.gov.uk *
* Information Systems Team  Tel.: +44 (0)1904 462290 *
* Central Science LaboratoryFax.: +44 (0)1904 462111 *
* Sand Hutton, York YO41 1LZhttp://www.csl.gov.uk*
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Re: [css-d] Pragmatic look at our CSS future - ripped from: The CSS Overlords

[Alexandru Dinulescu]

My opinion is that standards for old browsers should be dumped, and then
force people to upgrade to anything newer. I for one do not offer support
for anything lower than ie6, and ie6 is paid support. Because it's a pain to
create and make sure everything works on IE6 quircks, and i dislike the use
of javascript inside css to get ie6 to behave properly. You can do that by
simply deleting all your CC for your old sites, how the site renders with
the main stylesheet is that's how it renders.

I dont think IE6 will live to see 2010 to be honest, already it has around
20% of the marketshare, and will drop rapidly, and for those who do not
upgrade their browsers, then that's their problem, a small sign when you
enter the website will check for your browser version, if it's IE6 or below,
FF2 or below, safari 2 or below or etc a big message will appear saying
"Please upgrade your browser, otherwise this website may not work properly".

And as for the designs to css implementation, almost never will a design be
pixel perfect transcoded into the HTML, 95% it may be possible, but anything
above that line, it's just wasted time (and lot's and lots of time).

At least thats my opinion and so far it's profitable.


---
Alexandru Dinulescu
Web Developer
(X)HTML/CSS Specialist
Expert Guarantee Certified Developer
XHTML: http://www.expertrating.com/transcript.asp?transcriptid=1879053
CSS : http://www.expertrating.com/transcript.asp?transcriptid=1870619
RentACoder Profile:
http://www.rentacoder.com/RentACoder/DotNet/SoftwareCoders/ShowBioInfo.aspx?lngAuthorId=6995323

MainWebsite: http://alexd.adore.ro
Portofolio: http://alexd.adore.ro/project_page.php
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