Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks

2008-01-13 Thread David Hucklesby
> On Jan 13, 2008, at 3:44 AM, Bruno Fassino wrote:
>
>> I guess your intention was to feed the second
>> rule to IE only. If so, you can change that with:
>>
>> * html .featureItem2, *+html .featureItem2 {
>> display: inline-block;
>> }
>>
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 12:47:42 +0900, Philippe Wittenbergh responded:
> 
> That would fail in IE 6, I think.
> That browser will see the *+html .featureItem2, fail to understand it, and 
> treat the
> whole block as invalid.
> (and that behaviour is actually correct, per 4.1.7
>  see the example 'h3, h4 & 
> h5')
>

Just writing to confirm that this is the case. Using the h1 selector 
and a color property, I find the rule is applied by IE 7 but not by 
IE 6; viz. -

 * html h1, *+html h1 {color: green;} /* green in IE 7 only */

FWIW - I find that pairing :hover and :focus like this, IE 6 applies 
the :hover quite happily, despite lack of support for :focus. Hmm.

Cordially,
David
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Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks

2008-01-13 Thread Michael ORourke
Sorry about that! I clearly have too much going on ;)


- Original Message - 
From: "DAVOUD TOHIDY" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Michael ORourke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Bruno Fassino" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 4:52 AM
Subject: Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks


>
> On Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:58:47 -0500 Michael wrote:
>
>>Browser tests would be greatly appreciated.
>> http://www.basalweb.com/test/dltest3.html
>
> Michael,
>
> I thought you have fixed the br tags and that your page
> validates but please double check your page.
>
> It does not validate. Fix all br tags and image tags and remove
> the u tag which is a deprecated tag.
>
> For images you need to close it in XHTML like:
>
> 
>
> Instead of u tag, add the following to css:
>
> em {text-decoration:underline}
>
> once all the corrections have been made check that it validates
> then let us know for browser check.
>
> regards
> davoud
> p.s: I am looking for volunteers for my research at:
> http://cssfreelancer.awardspace.com/stability.html
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Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks

2008-01-13 Thread DAVOUD TOHIDY

On Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 14:58:47 -0500 Michael wrote:
 
>Browser tests would be greatly appreciated.
> http://www.basalweb.com/test/dltest3.html
 
Michael,
 
I thought you have fixed the br tags and that your page
validates but please double check your page.
 
It does not validate. Fix all br tags and image tags and remove
the u tag which is a deprecated tag.
 
For images you need to close it in XHTML like:
 

 
Instead of u tag, add the following to css:
 
em {text-decoration:underline}
 
once all the corrections have been made check that it validates
then let us know for browser check.
 
regards
davoud
p.s: I am looking for volunteers for my research at:
http://cssfreelancer.awardspace.com/stability.html
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Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks

2008-01-12 Thread Philippe Wittenbergh

On Jan 13, 2008, at 3:44 AM, Bruno Fassino wrote:

> I guess your intention was to feed the second
> rule to IE only. If so, you can change that with:
>
> * html .featureItem2, *+html .featureItem2 {
>   display: inline-block;
> }

That would fail in IE 6, I think.
That browser will see the *+html .featureItem2, fail to understand  
it, and treat the whole block as invalid.
(and that behaviour is actually correct, per 4.1.7

see the example 'h3, h4 & h5')

You'd have to write
* html .featureItem2 {/* rules */}
*+html .featureItem2 {/* rules */}

Philippe
---
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Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks

2008-01-12 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Michael ORourke wrote:
> Browser tests would be greatly appreciated. 
> 

Firefox 2 and 3b2 have what looks like timing-problems - rendering
depending on download speed, so the intended line-up (one line) is
somewhat of a "hit and miss" with every load at my end.

Same instability with this test (reworked version of your first one)...

...and I think it's the "missing table-row" that is the (usual) problem
in Gecko. Adding a table-row will probably fix it.

The workaround for IE/win can't hold that many (6) containers in the
available space, which is a minor problem - give it more space.

No problems observed in Opera 7.54 - 9.5b and Safari 3.

regards
Georg
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Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks

2008-01-12 Thread Michael ORourke
Hi Bruno, you are correct on pretty much all points, here is my thinking:


> Mixture of display: table / table-cell / inline-block may work for such
> cases in most browsers, but the mixture that you have got now is a bit
> strange... You have:
>
> .featureItem2 {
> display: table-cell;
> }
> /*\*/
> html .featureItem2 {
> display: inline-block;
> }
> /**/
>
> The second rule overrides the first, so all browsers that support
> inline-block use that one. I guess your intention was to feed the second
> rule to IE only.

Yes, this was my intention. My (incorrect) assumption was that inline-block 
would be ignored by all but IE. Instead of the * hack I counted on the 
specificity weight rules: html .featureItem2 is more specific than 
.featureItem2 so it will take precedent in browsers that support it. In a 
"duh" moment I realized that I had this backwards and have since made the IE 
rules less specific and I think the problem may be solved (at least until 
IE8 comes out). Browser tests would be greatly appreciated. 
http://www.basalweb.com/test/dltest3.html

> - table-cell and inline-blocks have different behaviors. If in your case 
> you
> may have so many (or so big) blocks that they do not fit in a 'line' the
> results will differ (do you want them to wrap or to overflow?)  You should
> also check the case of blocks not all having the same height (unless you 
> set
> a fixed height for them.)

I added more content to one of the "cells" on the test page. The result was 
fine in all except IE which required vertical-align:top to pull the shorter 
contents of adjacent spans to the top. I think, hopefully, that the only 
issue left unresolved is that of equal block height in IE...

Thanks,
Michael 

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Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks

2008-01-12 Thread Bruno Fassino
Michael ORourke wrote:

> http://www.basalweb.com/test/dltest3.html

> Ok, a few issues... The doctype was xhtml 1.0 strict and I
> didn't close the  tags. Fixing this exposed overflow
> issues with IE so I added overflow:auto to all selectors. So
> far so good. Unfortunately, the results in Opera 9 show all
> the divs centered, but now they're all stacking (according to
> browsershots). I'm thinking it's an issue with width as
> opposed to display, but I'll do some more testing.

Mixture of display: table / table-cell / inline-block may work for such
cases in most browsers, but the mixture that you have got now is a bit
strange... You have:

.featureItem2 {
display: table-cell;
}
/*\*/
html .featureItem2 {
display: inline-block;
}
/**/


The second rule overrides the first, so all browsers that support
inline-block use that one. I guess your intention was to feed the second
rule to IE only. If so, you can change that with:

* html .featureItem2, *+html .featureItem2 {
display: inline-block;
}

In this way Opera will use table-cell with better results.

Some notes/caveats:

- the problem with Opera now is that its shrink-to-fit computation for a
table including inline-blocks doesn't seem too good.

- table-cell and inline-blocks have different behaviors. If in your case you
may have so many (or so big) blocks that they do not fit in a 'line' the
results will differ (do you want them to wrap or to overflow?)  You should
also check the case of blocks not all having the same height (unless you set
a fixed height for them.)

- the above hack that I wrote to feed IE only is not the most reliable one
(in the part  *+html  for IE7.)


Best regards,
Bruno

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Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks

2008-01-12 Thread Michael ORourke
Ok, a few issues... The doctype was xhtml 1.0 strict and I didn't close the 
 tags. Fixing this exposed overflow issues with IE so I added overflow:auto 
to all selectors. So far so good. Unfortunately, the results in Opera 9 show 
all the divs centered, but now they're all stacking (according to 
browsershots). I'm thinking it's an issue with width as opposed to display, but 
I'll do some more testing.

Michael 
  - Original Message - 
  From: DAVOUD TOHIDY 
  To: Michael ORourke ; David Hucklesby ; css-d@lists.css-discuss.org 
  Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 8:40 AM
  Subject: RE: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks


  > Close David, thanks. I found more of what I was looking for here:
  > http://www.brunildo.org/test/shrink-to-fit.html
   
  Michael,
   
  May I open the thread again please? Sorry about that. And do you
  mind if we ask everybody to provide feeback on this using different
  browsers and platforms?
   
  What you have got in there is really interesting and I will work around
  it myself. However as you mentioned in your post before, Opera 9
  is not working well with it.
   
  I doubt that this method can be a cross browser / platform solution
  however I hope I am wrong because this is a wondeerful solution if it
  works fine.  Opera 8.01 pushes the last div down. So it does not work
  in Opera 8.01 even though the rest works fine.
   
  I would be interested in hearing about how safari, konqueror, camino,
  Mozilla, AOL and earlier versions of Netscape working with it. Anybody?
   
  It is working fine in FF1.0.7, NS 7.2, IE6, IE7 on windows XP.
   
  Thanks
  davoud


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Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks

2008-01-12 Thread DAVOUD TOHIDY

> Close David, thanks. I found more of what I was looking for here:
> http://www.brunildo.org/test/shrink-to-fit.html
 
Michael,
 
May I open the thread again please? Sorry about that. And do you
mind if we ask everybody to provide feeback on this using different
browsers and platforms?
 
What you have got in there is really interesting and I will work around
it myself. However as you mentioned in your post before, Opera 9
is not working well with it.
 
I doubt that this method can be a cross browser / platform solution
however I hope I am wrong because this is a wondeerful solution if it
works fine.  Opera 8.01 pushes the last div down. So it does not work
in Opera 8.01 even though the rest works fine.
 
I would be interested in hearing about how safari, konqueror, camino,
Mozilla, AOL and earlier versions of Netscape working with it. Anybody?
 
It is working fine in FF1.0.7, NS 7.2, IE6, IE7 on windows XP.
 
Thanks
davoud
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Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks

2008-01-11 Thread Michael ORourke
Close David, thanks. I found more of what I was looking for here: 
http://www.brunildo.org/test/shrink-to-fit.html and was able to get it 
working using the table/table-cell/inline-block combo. I tested it on 
browsershots and it seems to be ok in all except Opera 9 which pushes one to 
the next line. Before and after is on my test page for anybody interested: 
http://www.basalweb.com/test/dltest3.html.

Thanks all!


- Original Message - 
From: "David Hucklesby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Michael ORourke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks


On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:59:56 -0500, Michael ORourke wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I have a container holding 6 floated divs, each containing an image and a 
> few lines of
> text. My first goal was to be able to center all the floats so they take 
> up all the
> space in the containing div which I think I accomplished. The test page is 
> here:
> http://www.basalweb.com/test/dltest3.html.
>
> The problem I have now is that the number of those floated divs won't be 
> constant.
[...]

Something like this, perhaps? -

  <http://www.brunildo.org/test/ImgThumbIBL3.html>

More experiments with centering and shrink-wrapping here:

  <http://www.brunildo.org/test/#cen>

Cordially,
David
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Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks

2008-01-11 Thread David Hucklesby
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:59:56 -0500, Michael ORourke wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I have a container holding 6 floated divs, each containing an image and a few 
> lines of
> text. My first goal was to be able to center all the floats so they take up 
> all the
> space in the containing div which I think I accomplished. The test page is 
> here:
> http://www.basalweb.com/test/dltest3.html.
>
> The problem I have now is that the number of those floated divs won't be 
> constant.
[...]

Something like this, perhaps? -

  

More experiments with centering and shrink-wrapping here:

  

Cordially,
David
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Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks

2008-01-11 Thread Michael ORourke
Thanks for the suggestions. I think I've tried some variation of all of them
without success and I fear Davoud may be correct that it isn't possible
without serious hacks, conditionals or scripting. Stu Nichols appears to
have accomplished it with an unordered list (
http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menus/centered.html) using Alex's approach. I'll
see if that will translate into my layout as soon as I get a moment.

Thierry, I purposely avoided using a list as I didn't feel that it would be
semantically correct. I think a definition list might be, but I fear in the
end I would be facing the same problem (with more markup).

Thanks!
Michael

On Jan 11, 2008 5:16 PM, Alex Robinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> A combination of display:table (Mozilla, Opera) and
> display:inline-block (IE) can cause a wrapper around floats to
> shrink-to-fit and thus be made amenable to being centered.
>
> However, Safari (neither 2 nor 3) does not do the shrink wrapping and
> so no centering occurs. As far as I know - I'd love to be told that
> I'm wrong.
>
>
> Paul O'Brien has an alternative approach that can be summed up as:
>
> Outer wrapper:
> float: left; position: relative and left: 50%
>
> Inner wrapper
> position: relative; left: -50%
>
>http://www.search-this.com/2007/09/19/when-is-a-float-not-a-float/
>
>
> It is not without drawbacks, but it may be good enough for your needs
>
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Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks

2008-01-11 Thread Alex Robinson
A combination of display:table (Mozilla, Opera) and 
display:inline-block (IE) can cause a wrapper around floats to 
shrink-to-fit and thus be made amenable to being centered.

However, Safari (neither 2 nor 3) does not do the shrink wrapping and 
so no centering occurs. As far as I know - I'd love to be told that 
I'm wrong.


Paul O'Brien has an alternative approach that can be summed up as:

Outer wrapper:
float: left; position: relative and left: 50%

Inner wrapper
position: relative; left: -50%

http://www.search-this.com/2007/09/19/when-is-a-float-not-a-float/


It is not without drawbacks, but it may be good enough for your needs
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Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks

2008-01-11 Thread Thierry Koblentz
> > Thanks for the responses. I apologize if I wasn't clear. I't not
> > #featurecontainer that I'm trying to keep centered, it's the floated
> > divs
> > inside. If I remove any number of those floated divs, they will no
> > longer be
> > centered unless I adjust the width for .featureMerch. I'm trying to
> do
> > it
> > without having to adjust that width.
> 
> Hi Michael,
> I think you can achieve this with display:table
> For IE, you'll have to use an expression to find out how many siblings
> are in the container and do the math (width of parent / number of
> siblings - a few pixels to account for rounding errors).

I have a second thought, may be I didn't understand your question properly.
The above would spread the items across the width of the container, but it
seems that what you want is to have them all together and centered, so the
above won't work for this scenario.

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Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com



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Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks

2008-01-11 Thread Thierry Koblentz
> Thanks for the responses. I apologize if I wasn't clear. I't not
> #featurecontainer that I'm trying to keep centered, it's the floated
> divs
> inside. If I remove any number of those floated divs, they will no
> longer be
> centered unless I adjust the width for .featureMerch. I'm trying to do
> it
> without having to adjust that width.

Hi Michael,
I think you can achieve this with display:table
For IE, you'll have to use an expression to find out how many siblings are
in the container and do the math (width of parent / number of siblings - a
few pixels to account for rounding errors).

As a side note, I'd use a list ;)

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Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks

2008-01-11 Thread Highpowered
Michael ORourke wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I have a container holding 6 floated divs, each containing an image and a
> few lines of text. My first goal was to be able to center all the floats so
> they take up all the space in the containing div which I think I
> accomplished. The test page is here:
> http://www.basalweb.com/test/dltest3.html.
> 
> The problem I have now is that the number of those floated divs won't be
> constant. There will be anywhere from 1-6. Is there any way to have them
> always display centered in the containing div without editing the width in
> the css or do I have to resort to JS for this? The floated divs don't
> necessarily have to take up the entire space, it's more important that
> they're centered.

This is an interesting thing to try. I think the key is to create an 
inner wrapper div to contain the individual blocks, and from there, I 
got thrown for a loop trying to decide on whether to go with a width of 
auto to allow it to expand according to the cumulative widths of the 
item blocks OR give it a width that would expand to the overall 
containing block and attempt to pad the inside left and right.

If I wasn't at work right now, I'd explore it further. Good question!!

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Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks

2008-01-11 Thread DAVOUD TOHIDY

You were clear Michael, no need to applogize :) . I understood
what you are asking.
 
As I mentioned if you would like to center the divs add margin:0 auto
to the parent.
 
However if you are asking for dynamically centering the divs when you 
remove or add the divs, which I believe this is what you are asking, then
CSS will not do it for you, I believe.
 
Regards
davoud
 


Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 15:39:31 -0500From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]: Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocksCC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
for the responses. I apologize if I wasn't clear. I't not #featurecontainer 
that I'm trying to keep centered, it's the floated divs inside. If I remove any 
number of those floated divs, they will no longer be centered unless I adjust 
the width for .featureMerch. I'm trying to do it without having to adjust that 
width. Michael
On Jan 11, 2008 3:26 PM, DAVOUD TOHIDY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Michael, I guess you have forgotten to add margin:0 auto to #featurecontainer 
in your css. 
 > constant. There will be anywhere from 1-6.  I don't think CSS can do 
 > anything in this regard. Interested in hearing about that myself. davoud

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Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks

2008-01-11 Thread Derrick Knight
If you want the entire container holding 6 elements centered, try adding 
margin: auto; to #featurecontainer
I know you said you didn't want to use margin, but am assuming that you 
meant you didn't want to have to state a specific value for the margin 
with each use.

Hope this helps.

-Derrick

Michael ORourke wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I have a container holding 6 floated divs, each containing an image and a
> few lines of text. My first goal was to be able to center all the floats so
> they take up all the space in the containing div which I think I
> accomplished. The test page is here:
> http://www.basalweb.com/test/dltest3.html.
>
> The problem I have now is that the number of those floated divs won't be
> constant. There will be anywhere from 1-6. Is there any way to have them
> always display centered in the containing div without editing the width in
> the css or do I have to resort to JS for this? The floated divs don't
> necessarily have to take up the entire space, it's more important that
> they're centered.
>
> As always, you're help is greatly appreciated!
>
> Michael
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Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks

2008-01-11 Thread Michael ORourke
Thanks for the responses. I apologize if I wasn't clear. I't not
#featurecontainer that I'm trying to keep centered, it's the floated divs
inside. If I remove any number of those floated divs, they will no longer be
centered unless I adjust the width for .featureMerch. I'm trying to do it
without having to adjust that width.

Michael

On Jan 11, 2008 3:26 PM, DAVOUD TOHIDY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  Michael,
>
> I guess you have forgotten to add margin:0 auto to
> #featurecontainer in your css.
>
> > constant. There will be anywhere from 1-6.
>
> I don't think CSS can do anything in this regard.
>
> Interested in hearing about that myself.
>
> davoud
>
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Re: [css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks

2008-01-11 Thread DAVOUD TOHIDY

Michael,
 
I guess you have forgotten to add margin:0 auto to 
#featurecontainer in your css.
 
> constant. There will be anywhere from 1-6. 
 
I don't think CSS can do anything in this regard.
 
Interested in hearing about that myself.
 
davoud
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[css-d] Centering multiple floated blocks

2008-01-11 Thread Michael ORourke
Hello all,

I have a container holding 6 floated divs, each containing an image and a
few lines of text. My first goal was to be able to center all the floats so
they take up all the space in the containing div which I think I
accomplished. The test page is here:
http://www.basalweb.com/test/dltest3.html.

The problem I have now is that the number of those floated divs won't be
constant. There will be anywhere from 1-6. Is there any way to have them
always display centered in the containing div without editing the width in
the css or do I have to resort to JS for this? The floated divs don't
necessarily have to take up the entire space, it's more important that
they're centered.

As always, you're help is greatly appreciated!

Michael
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