date:20030726

-Caveat Lector-
http://www.americanfreepress.net/07_25_03/Plutocrats_Gushing/plutocrats_gushing.html

Plutocrats Gushing Over Iraqi Oil

While Iraqis have to wait for the most essential services to be restored, British and American oil companies are profiting from the flow of Iraqi crude, which is being restored by the Army Corps of Engineers at U.S. taxpayers expense.

Exclusive to American Free Press
By Christopher Bollyn

Big Oil is already profiting from discounted and subsidized Iraqi crude provided by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) while the population of occupied Iraq lacks the most basic services: security, water and sewage, electricity, and telecommunications.

American consumers and taxpayers are picking up the tab for the reconstruction of Iraq, directly and indirectly, as the congressionally-funded USACE is working to increase the flow from Iraqi oilfields.

The abundant oil of southern Iraq is flowing again, thanks largely to the USACE, which was commissioned by the Department of Defense and the secretary of the Army to restore Iraqs oil production.

USACE was given the task to repair Iraqs oil infrastructure in February or March, USACE Lt. Col. Gene Pawlik told American Free Press. We will be there until we restore oil production to pre-war levels, although he couldnt say how long it would take to reach the pre-war level of 2.5 million barrels per day.

Vice President Dick Cheney said on April 9, when Baghdad fell to coalition forces, that by the end of the year Iraqs oil production would reach 3 million barrels a day. To meet that goal USACE is working with Kellogg Brown Root (KBR), a Houston-based engineering firm and subsidiary of Halliburton, the oil-services company formerly headed by Cheney.

Pawlik said the USACE today is primarily civilian with only 600 uniformed personnel and about 34,500 civilian employees.

The Army effort headed by USACE is known as Task Force RIO (Restore Iraqi Oil) and is being directed by Brig. Gen. Robert Crear.

The fact that Iraq may have even more oil than Saudi Arabia, something AFP has reported for months, is now being mentioned by the mainstream media: The shattered nation [Iraq] may have the worlds largest reserves of oil, read the headline of The New Yorker on July 21. The informative article noted that the abundant oil of the Basra area has the cheapest production costs in the world, at about a dollar a barrel.

All the Iraqi oil currently being exported is from the Basra area, near the gulf coast in the extreme south of the country, where a cluster of rich oil fields, including the super giant Rumaila and Majnoon fields, are found. The Basra area is reportedly producing 350,000 to 400,000 barrels a day.

While the United States has some 150,000 troops stationed in Iraq, the combined coalition allies have less than one-tenth that number in the country. Despite the minute size of the British contingent in Iraq, the occupied oil-rich Basra area is primarily under British military control, Pawlik told AFP.

Not surprisingly, a British-owned tanker was the first to load Iraqi oil since the beginning of the war.

A British Petroleum (BP) tanker lifted 2 million barrels of high-quality Basra light crude oil at the gulf port of Mina al-Bakr on July 13. ChevronTexaco was scheduled to load 2 million barrels on July 21, and Shell to take its share the following week. A fourth bidder, a Swiss trading firm called Taurus, was also involved in the July sale of 8 million barrels of Iraqi crude. Who the Geneva-based Taurus is, however, remains unknown.

The July sale of freshly pumped Iraqi crude was sold for less than $25 per barrel, more than $5 per barrel below standard U.S. crude prices, The Observer (UK) reported on July 13, adding, British and American tankers making off with the first few million barrels of Iraqi oil are only likely to confirm long-held suspicions of war skeptics, it reported.

At least three-quarters of the new Iraqi oil will be heading for the U.S., while Iraqis are reportedly now paying five times more for gas than they did under the former Baath regime.

BP, which enjoyed record profits of more than $3 billion in the first quarter of 2003 due to higher worldwide refining margins and improved retail margins, particularly in the USA, reportedly planned to ship its Iraqi crude to the United States. Across the United States, BP has 14,900 service stations under the new dandelion-like yellow and green logo.

BP spokesman, Scott Dean, told AFP that the new logo, which does not identify the company as British Petroleum, had met with positive responses from consumers.

Through mergers and acquisitions, formerly American-owned oil companies such as Amoco, ARCO, Burmah Castrol and Vastar, made the London-based British Petroleum the largest oil and gas producer in the United States and one of the largest gasoline retailers by 2001.

BP has some $40 billion of fixed assets in the United States, with operations in almost every

Re: [CTRL] Is Washington terrorizing us more than Al Qaeda?

2003-07-26 Thread Nakano Nakamura

-Caveat Lector-

--- William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Ordinary citizens can now get a crash course in
   emergency preparedness in the event that a big
   bomb is dropped on their block.
-
 Nakano comments:
I served in the Navy during Vietnam.
When our ship left drydock at Long Beach, the workers
had mounted a very prominent and official looking
sign on the main door into CIC.
It read:
NUCLEAR ATTACK PROCEDURES
1. Sit and brace yourself in a corner.
2. Spread legs at a 45 degree angle on the deck.
3. Grab your ankles.
4. Bend over as far as possible.
5. Kiss your ass goodbye.


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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] [JBirch] UN Funding Summer Camps Honoring Terrorists (fwd)

2003-07-26 Thread William Bacon

-Caveat Lector-

I pledge Allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to
the REPUBLIC for which it stands,  one Nation under God,indivisible,with
liberty and justice for all.

 visit my web site at
http://www.voicenet.com/~wbacon My ICQ# is 79071904
for a precise list of the powers of the Federal Government linkto:
http://www.voicenet.com/~wbacon/Enumerated.html

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:11:53 -0700
From: Paul Blumstein [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Recipient List Suppressed:  ;
Subject: [JBirch] UN Funding Summer Camps Honoring Terrorists

Palestinian Media Watch Bulletin
July 25, 2003

PALESTINIAN MEDIA WATCH
phone: 972- 2- 625-4140 fax: 972-2- 624-2803
visit our website, click here: http://www.pmw.org.il
for further information, contact PMW Director, Itamar Marcus
material may be quoted, citing PMW as the source

UN is Funding Summer Camps Honoring Terrorists
by Itamar Marcus

Introduction:
PMW has been reporting on the repeated Palestinian Authority [PA]
naming of children's camps this summer after terrorists, including
suicide terrorists, and it seems from the mention of UNICEF in the
PA papers that the UN is a significant supporter of  these camps. The
summer camps, are often named after specific terrorists or just the
general term Shahid, meaning Died for Allah, the term the PA uses
to honor the terrorists, as well as others who died in the conflict
with Israel. A girl's summer camp was named after Wafa Idris, a woman
suicide terrorist.

Beyond the act of naming the summer camps for terrorists, the camps
include activities and lectures designed to present the terrorists as
role models and heroes for the children, such as visits to their
families, discussions about them and more. The camps are under the
auspices of the PA Ministry of Youth and Sports and UNICEF is singled
out and thanked in news articles for their financial support of the
camps.

The following are articles mentioning UNICEF or describing the
activities, from among many other similar articles:

1. Yesterday the activities of the scouts' Shahid [died for Allah]
camp in Dir Al-Ballah were officially unveiled . under the
supervision of the scouts ' authority in the Youth and Sports
Department . and with the support of UNICEF. 140 scouts of both sexes
took part in the camp .   [Al-Hayat Al-Jadida,  July 22, 2003]

2. In the Ibn-Al-Hitham elementary school in Nablus, activities at
the Shahids of Chattin summer camp drew to a close. This [camp] had
been organized by the Youth and Sports Department, in conjunction
with the Chattin division scouts' club, UNICEF and the national
committee for summer camps. In honor of this event a grand ceremony
took place . Al-Issui gave a speech on behalf of the Minister of
Youth and Sport in which he recalled the Shahids for Palestine, after
whom the camp was named. During the ceremony there were artistic
interludes presented by the Shahid Mahmad Al-Tzabar choir, along with
the Shahid Abu Jibran Group and the group [named after] the two
Shahid brothers Kemal and Tissir Abu-Shahab . [Al-Quds, July 23,
2003]

3. Yesterday, activities ended in the camp named after the Shahida
[Died for Allah] Wafa Idris, for girls in the city of Kalkiliya. The
camp was founded by the Scout general administration in the Ministry
of Youth and Sports. The camp was under the supervision of the Scouts
in the Kalkiliya Administration and about 100 girls from the
organizing committee of the city 's Scouts participated. .[At the
closing ceremonies thanks were given including] to UNICEF for its
support of the camps.  [Al-Ayyam July 18, 2003] [Note: Wafa
Idris, was the first woman suicide terrorist.]

4.  The Palestinian Union for Culture, Sciences and Development
continues with the activities of the fifth round of the summer camps
(which) bears the title: The Shahid Al-Amarin. [150 boys and girls
aged 12 and 13 are taking part in this camp.] Yesterday the camp's
participants went to the home of the Shahid [died for Allah] Jihad
Al-Amarin, where (they were greeted by) the Shahid's wife, children
and family. During the visit there were speeches praising the virtues
of the Shahid Jihad Al-Amarin, who was assassinated a year ago by the
forces of the occupation. [note: Jihad Al-Amarin, the founder of the
Al-Aksa Martyrs' Brigade, was killed by Israel.]

The Shahid's wife expressed her joy at our people's loyalty to her
husband, stating that the Shahid Jihad followed a national mission.
During the visit the Shahid's wife was presented with the camp's
shield. [Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, July 13, 2003]


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Re: [CTRL] Kosher Conservative Warns Mel Gibson's Movie May Be Undoing Of ADL

Title: Message
-Caveat Lector-



I was just 
wondering what one of these posts would like like if all of the emotionally 
loaded words were blocked, so I tried it and am sharing it.It's 
difficult to have dialogue around emotionally loaded words as they represent 
personal viewpoints that may or may not have a factual basis. 


As far as 
the film is concerned,only time will tell whetheritwill 
strengthen Catholic moral beliefs among his splinter group or provide fodder for 
the revisionists, whether there are more Christians or revisionists in our 
culture.I look forward to seeing Gibson do a film on the reasons why 
his group of Catholics split from the main Catholic church and why they consider 
themselves the true Catholics. Based on information about splinter 
Catholic beliefs, the Protestants, Adventists, Mormons, and Christian New Agers, 
mightbe writing about his anti-Christian beliefs. While Gibson 
may believe he is promoting a work of art, he in time will learn that he is 
promoting ideas, and ideas have consequences. He will have to face the 
consequences, whatever they are.Whether in the long run is is seen as a great 
filmdirector or as an irresponsible individual who is throwing gasoline on 
the growing fire of antisemitism and anti-Christianity is up to him. 


  Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 2:44 
  PM
  Subject: [CTRL]-- 
  --Warns Mel Gibson's Movie May Be "Undoing" Of 
  ADL-Michael A. Hoffman II, 
  Editorhttp://www.hoffman-info.com/news.htmlJuly 24, 
  2003A-- Proposition for Zionism:-- vs. 
  ArtA-- 
  -- --Warns that Mel Gibson's Movie May Prove to be the 
  "--" of the 
  ADLHoffman-- beneath appearances to deconstruct 
  the tactics and strategy of a "-- Gentileby Michael A. 
  Hoffman IICopyright(c)2003 by hoffman-info.comJoseph Farah is 
  an-- -- 
  --who has-- Israeli against 
  Palestinian-- and-- 
  the-- 
  --concerning the ongoing Israeli-- in 
  the-- territories. What then are we 
  to make of Farah's-- warning to the Anti-Defamation 
  League of B'nai B'rith (reproduced below). Is it sincere or a feint? 
  Perhaps a bit of both. It looks as though Hollywood fixture Mel Gibson 
  has made a movie about the-- and-- of 
  Christ that is such a-- piece of cinematic art that to 
  condemn it is to render oneself an-- 
  --and--. Farah seems to be signaling to 
  the Zionist-- that they had better take a pass on 
  "The Passion," lest they-- a--loss 
  of credibility in campaigning against it. Gibson has used 
  a-- 
  -- tack to get his--Christian viewpoint into mass 
  circulation-- the prerogative of the artist -- something this writer has 
  for years been recommending to World War Two--, who 
  mostly rely on-- --and technical reports as a 
  means of persuasion. My 1986 novel, "A Candidate for the Order," and 1989 
  illustrated satire, "Tales of the--," were attempts to use art and 
  literature to-- 
  --and minds to revisionism's skeptical take 
  on--.-- 
  --in-- gas 
  chambers at Auschwitz can dismiss revisionist technical reports as "junk 
  science," but they will have a much harder time putting down Art with a 
  revisionist theme. Americans have not been-- 
  these past forty years into-- to-- --, 
  abortion, homosexual "marriage" and-- pollution and-- 
  mainly on the basis of scientific reports and statistical studies. They 
  have beenand-- 
  primarily through the-- --of--- 
  photographed movies with-- --themes, "Tonight" show 
  monologues, songs, novels, theatre, Oprah and Orwellian 
  Newspeak.--, World War Two revisionists 
  have--along these past twenty 
  years of the psychology and epistemology 
  of the arts, the academes, That show, contain and nourish all the 
  world.Gibson's previous movie, "Braveheart," is a recognized 
  masterwork of the silver screen. If Gibson has brought similar talent and 
  resources to his film about Christ's-- 
  --(known in theology as the "Passion"), then his movie 
  will turn the tables on the Establishment and bowl over every 
  last-- who stands in its way. Farah does 
  not want to see his-- --stigmatized as-and prejudiced.-- have 
  had too much fun-- -- -- -- -- -- , to want to witness 
  the devastating effects of being hoisted by their own petard. 
  Farah, though he assumes a-- -- -- -- -- -- --, is in fact, 
  like many-- -- 
  , a--t by political conviction 
  and-- consideration. When he warns his 
  Israeli-American-- that Gibson's art is too 
  compelling to overcome with the---  
  methods, this does not signal that Farah has been converted to the cause 
  of--, but rather that hes recognized 
  the enduring power of Art, even in these-- 
  times, and is calling for caution and tactical retreat, the better to 
  retain an enduring strategic advantage for the "-- --" 
  and the-- -- -- 
  --relations" movement. The kind 
  of-- chess play exhibited by Farah, a 
  hallmark of-- -- -- -- 
  --, has been on the wane in our modern era of 
  Jewish--, where we have seen--,-- -- 
  --

[CTRL] Rep. Ron Paul: Stay Out Of Liberia!

-Caveat Lector-
http://www.antiwar.com/paul/paul73.html

Stay Out of Liberia!
Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)
July 26, 2003

The United States military has no role either alone or as part of a multinational force in Liberia.

We all recognize the tragedy in Liberia. A civil war has raged there for the past 14 years, leaving thousands dead and a million without homes. Horrific stories of atrocities abound. We wish for peace and a resolution to the conflict. But we must recognize that this resolution should come through regional West African efforts. These are the countries involved and affected; these are the countries with the most incentive to resolve the problem. Simply stated, there is no US national security interest at stake in the conflict no matter how widely "national interest" is defined.

But the administration is currently pondering repeated calls by some in the US and especially the United Nations to commit thousands of troops to a full-fledged American operation in Liberia. According to press reports, the Pentagon has just ordered about 4,500 sailors and marines from the Horn of Africa into the Mediterranean Sea, so as to be closer to Liberia just in case.

Before we commit our troops to yet another foreign intervention, Congress must at the very least consider the implications of further committing our already seriously overextended military. According to recent press reporting, of the 33 brigades that make up the entirety of the US Army's active duty combat forces, all but just three brigades are either currently engaged in Iraq, Afghanistan, South Korea; are committed to other missions; or are reconstituting. This suggests that the US military is in serious danger of becoming over-extended.

There is no US interest in the conflict and US military involvement could well lead to resentment and more violence against US troops, as we saw in Somalia. We must ponder this possibility before yet again putting our men and women in uniform in harm's way.

www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Israel's Grand Design: Leaders Crave Area From Egypt To Iraq

http://www.mediamonitors.net/johnhenshaw1.html

Israel's Grand Design: Leaders Crave Area from Egypt to Iraq
by John Mitchell Henshaw

Nearly 34 years ago, an America-firster used The American Mercury magazine to warn of the danger posed by Zionism and its rule of Washington and the Mideast. John Henshaw wrote this article shortly after Israel laid claim to the annexed land during 1967 Arab-Israeli war. This article first appeared in the spring of 1968.

*~*~*~*~*~*~*

The metamorphosis of tiny Israel from a midget to a giant is in the making. The grand design of Judaic-Zionist expansionist doctrine is to seize all the oil-rich lands from the shores of the Euphrates to the banks of the Nile.

In defining the aims of Zionism, Hebrew scholar Levnoch Osman recently said: "In our eternal Book of Books (the Torah), the lofty ethical teachings of which are cherished by all mankind, the land of Israel is described not as a long, narrow strip of land with wavy, crooked borders, but as a state with broad natural borders. God has promised to Patriarch Abraham the following:

"I give unto them the land where they have sown their seed, from the river of Egypt unto the great river of Euphrates (Genesis 15:18). And so, in order to realize the words of this prophecy, the Israeli state had to continue, not in the borders it has today but within its broad historical boundaries."

And as far back as 1952 Moshe Dayan, the present Israeli defense minister, declared:

"Our task consists of preparing the Israeli army for the new war approaching in order to achieve our ultimate goal, the creation of an Israeli empire."

The British historian Arnold J. Toynbee, who served as an adviser on Near Eastern affairs to the British delegation at the Versailles Conference, in a newspaper article published in June last year stated the Zionist aims in these words:

We are Jews, the living representatives of Judah, one of the 12 tribes of Israel that conquered most of Palestine in the 13th century B.C. We held Judahs share of the conquered territory for seven centuries, till we were deported by Nebuchadnezzer in 587 B.C. We were back again within less than half a century, and we then held Judea, once more, for the next 773 years, till we were evicted by the Romans in A.D. 135. We have never renounced our claim to the land of Israel. We have always hoped, believed, and proclaimed that we shall get this land back again. It is our land, we contend.

After another 1,883 years we did recover a foothold there in 1918, and during the
half-century since then, by devoted hard work, ability and military valor, we have built up our present national State of Israel, and have inflicted three smashing defeats on the Arabs, who have been trying to evict us again.We want to have a country of our own again, like other peoples and like our own ancestors.

We also need to have a country of our own, because, since the conversion of the
Roman empire to Christianity in the fourth century A.D., we have been penalized and persecuted by the Western Christian majority among whom we have had to live.

The persecution has culminated in the unprecedented crime of genocide, which
has been committed against us in our lifetime by a Western people, the Germans, in Europe. We are not going to let the Arabs commit the same crime of genocide against us here, in our own land of Israel.

Genocide in Six-day War

Apologist Toynbee omitted mentioning the fact that the Jews themselves are currently engaged in genocide. During the Sis-Day War last summer, Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Dayan ordered Brig. Gen. Yeshaahu Gavish, the Israeli commander of the Sinai campaign, to ruthlessly drive the hapless Egyptian troops into the Sinai Desert to die of thirst, hunger and heat. Temperature on the arid Sinai rise to more than 100 degrees during the day. For over two weeks thousand of wretched Egyptian stragglers wandered over the swirling wastes finally drop dead in their tracks.

U.S. reconnaissance planes flying on the perimeter of the Sinai Desert took hundreds of pictures of the stragglers and reported there were 50,000 Egyptians dead or dying on the desert at the time. The U.S. Air Force loaded 60,000 gallons of water in five-gallon jerry-cans on pallets and prepared to drop them in the area where stragglers were observed. However, Defense Secretary Robert McNamara ordered the projected mission of mercy halted after he received phone calls from White House foreign policy-planner Walt Rostow and UN Ambassador Arthur Goldberg.

This flagrant violation of the Geneva Convention on the treatment of prisoners of war amounted to genocide, designed to destroy a whole nation.

Newspaper reporters visiting the war zones in Syria and Jordan, reported that if one sniper in a village fired on Israeli troops, the whole village was destroyed including the women and children. Napalm is frequently used.

This systematic extermination is an ideological doctrine of Zionism. The leading

[CTRL] Judith Miller's Abysmal Record

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=12388mode=nestedorder=0

JackShafer: 'Cataloging the wretched reporting of Judith Miller'
Posted on Saturday, July 26 @ 10:27:20 EDT The Times Scoops That Melted

By JackShafer, Slate

If reporters who live by their sources were obliged to die by their sources, New York Times reporter Judith Miller would be stinking up her family tomb right now. In the 18-month run-up to the war on Iraq, Miller grew incredibly close to numerous Iraqi sources, both named and anonymous, who gave her detailed interviews about Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. Yet 100 days after the fall of Baghdad, none of the sensational allegations about chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons given to Miller have panned out, despite the furious crisscrossing of Iraq by U.S. weapons hunters.

In a Page One Times piece this week ("A Chronicle of Confusion in the Hunt for Hussein's Weapons," July 20), Miller acknowledges that "whether Saddam possessed such weapons when the war began remains unknown." But from there, she serially blames the failure of U.S. forces to uncover weapons of mass destruction on "chaos," "disorganization," "interagency feuds," "flawed intelligence," "looting," and "shortages of everything from gasoline to soap." Alternatively, she writes, maybe the wrong people were in charge of the search; perhaps a greater emphasis should have been placed on acquiring human sources rather than searching sites; and it could be that the military botched the op by not investing the WMD searchers with the power to reward cooperating Iraqi scientists financially or grant them amnesty.

Judith Miller finds everybody associated with the failed search theoretically culpable except Judith Miller. This rings peculiar because Miller, more than any other reporter, showcased the WMD speculations and intelligence findings by the Bush administration and the Iraqi defector/dissidents. Our WMD expectations, such as they were, grew largely out of Miller's stories.

To be sure, Miller never asserted that Iraq had an illegal WMD program or a stockpile of banned weapons. Far from it: Every time she writes about WMDs, she always constructs a semantic trapdoor allowing her to pop out the other side and proclaim, It's the sources talking, not me! But thanks to the reporting of the Washington Post's Howard Kurtz, we now know Miller was a true believer who grew fat on WMD tips from her sources inside Ahmad Chalabi's Iraqi National Congress organization, and that once in-country she threw a bit and saddle on the WMD detectives and road them like Julie Krone from one end of Iraq to the other to investigate those tips.

That none of the official tips or the ones provided by Miller revealed WMDs indicates that 1) the Iraqis perfectly expunged every site Miller ever mentioned in her reporting prior to the U.S. invasion; or 2) her sources were full of bunk. Either way, if Miller got taken by her coveted sources, so did the reading public, and the Times owes its readers a review of Miller's many credulous pieces. Thanks to the power of the Nexis Wayback Machine, we can give the Times a few tips on which Miller stories need revision, redaction, or retraction.

The Renovator, Adnan Ihsan Saeed al-Haideri
The Back Story: Climbing aboard the Wayback Machine, we first touch down on the Dec. 20, 2001, piece by Miller, "Iraqi Tells of Renovations at Sites For Chemical and Nuclear Arms." The Iraqi National Congress arranges for Miller to meet defector Adnan Ihsan Saeed al-Haideri, a civil engineer whose information seems reliable and significant to the U.S. government, Miller writes.

Saeed claims "to have done repair or construction work in facilities that were connected with all three classes of unconventional weaponsnuclear, chemical, and biological programs" and "personally visited at least 20 different sites that he believed to have been associated with Iraq's chemical or biological weapons programs, based on the characteristics of the rooms or storage areas and what he had been told about them during his work. Among them were what he described as the 'clean room' of a biological facility in 1998 in a residential area known as Al Qrayat."

Many redundant sites were also built, Saeed told Miller, including "duplicate nuclear facilities." Lead-lined storage containers exist under farms around Baghdad, and he tells Miller he worked on 20 such installations.

Miller Caveats: "There was no means to independently verify Mr. Saeed's allegations," and the government is always suspicious of defectors' claims.

Suggested Remedial Action: Saeed tells Miller he would return to Iraq "tomorrow" if Saddam were gone. As soon as we snuff Saddam, the Times should send Saeed to Iraq, where he can lead them on a tour of the 20 sites and 20 installations.

The Pseudonymous Ahmed al-Shemri
The Back Story: In "U.S. Says Hussein Intensifies Quest For A-Bomb Parts," Sept. 8, 2002, Miller and Michael R. Gordon publish the

[CTRL] Did DAVID KAY Engineer WMD Evidence For Bush I And Now Bush II?

-Caveat Lector-
http://baltimore.indymedia.org/newswire/display_any/4430

CHERYL SEAL SPECIAL REPORT: Did David Kay Engineer WMD Evidence for Bush I -and Now Bush 2? Current rating: 3
by Cheryl Seal

No verified email address)
17 Jul 2003
Modified: 19 Jul 2003

What David Kay is leaving out of his bio these days is that until 2002, he was VP of SAIC, a company rolling in Bush defense contracts. Kay produced "retroactive" evidence of WMDs for Bush I. Now he's Bush and Tenet's pick to get the goods...tho' he was fired in 1992 from his UN job for unethical behavior.
Like Bremer, Rice, Rumsfeld, and the rest of the cast of hardened corporate characters, David Kay is an overfed relic from a past rightwing hawk regime. Under Reagan, he was a chief scientist for the Pentagon as well as serving as a section chief for the IAEA (International Atomic Energy Administration of the UN) from 1983 until 1991. During this time, Hans Blix - Kay's boss - who was a man of integrity, was continually pressured by first Reagan, then Bush I. to come up with 'evidence' that oil-rich Iraq posed a sufficient nuclear threat for the US to invade (and thus to capture the oil).

In fact, until Kay came along, most experts in most western nations believed there was no evidence for an extensive WMD program in Iraq. But after the war, when Bush I needed greater validation for his actions in the run up to the 1992 election, Kay was made chief nuclear inspector for the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) on Iraq. UNSCOM was created in response to the Bush claims that Iraq was a hotbed of WMD weaponry that had to be 'dismantled.' Kay's investigations turned up all sorts of 'evidence' -given the time lapse from the end of the war to Kay's mission, who knows how much of it was planted -possibly all of it. Certainly the contributions of some 'defectors' have been totally dicredited. But UNSCOM produced the same sort of arrays of conveniently -in fact, unbelievably- detailed documents, all just left 'just laying around,' waiting to be found by Kay and company. The same evidence we hear reported ad infinitum and sans question on NBC, CNN, et al. Thanks to Kay's obliging efforts for Bush after Gulf War I, the stage was neatly set for Gulf War II. In fact, the entire invasion of Iraq was trumped up over the UN clause referring to WMDs.

Whenever Kay makes the rounds of the Bush-controlled media these days, he is always introduced only as 'former UN chief weapons inspector' and 'senior fellow at the Potomac Institute for Policy Research.' In short, Kay skips over several years of his interim history. Why? Maybe because during the 'missing years,' he was Vice President of Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC), a company with extremely close ties to the Pentagon and to the Bush administration in particular. A company up to its armpits in post-war Iraqi business, not to mention secret contracts rumored to involve electronic spying. A company in which Kay is rumored to still hold a sizeable chunk of stock, one where he maintains a rich network of inside connections.

SAIC's recent history is interesting, to say the least. The company was commissioned by G. W. Bush in 2002 to construct a replica of a mobile WMD laboratory of the sort used by Saddam. This mock up, supposedly destined to be used to train teams searching for WMDs in Iraq, was designed by Stephen Hatfill, the WMD expert now being harangued into isolation and thus silence by Bush's FBI. Last spring, the Bush administration handed SAIC some of the biggest defense contract plums to be had -a billion-dollar chunk of the NexGen business and an unbelievably porky 10-year contract worth over $600 million. I bet Kay just danced a jig of joy over that one, with visions of overflowing stock returns. Just think how much gratitude a couple of billion dollars can buy. Maybe even enough to produce another round of "evidence," thus setting the stage for Gulf War III?

But back to Gulf War I's aftermath. In 1992, Kay was fired from his UN position for trying to use underhanded methods (intriguing with the CIA and Iraqi thugs) to obtain 'informants' willing to feed him whatever information he needed (true or not). One such informant appears to be Khidir Hamza, whose 'evidence' was completely discredited by 1995. However, even in the aftermath of Kay's near-disgrace, Blix refused to bad-mouth him, as a matter of gentlemanly principles. "How did Kay repay Blix for defending him?" asks highly credentialed physicist James Gordon Prather, in a June 30, 2003 interview in the Worldnet Daily website. "He repeatedly testified before congressional committees in the months preceding Operation Iraqi Freedom as to the ineptness of Blix and the U.N. inspection regimes. Kay argued that Saddam certainly had "weapons of mass destruction" that the UN inspectors would never find and that it would ultimately be necessary to invade and occupy Iraq to find them."

If you have smelled a

[CTRL] Fwd: White House Had Only Out of Date Intelligence on Iraq

-Caveat Lector-

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---BeginMessage---
-Caveat Lector-
No new evidence on Iraq
since 1998 UN inspections

TIMES of INDIA, JULY 21, 2003

NEW YORK: American intelligence officials and senior members of the administration now acknowledge that there was little new evidence flowing into US agencies in the five years since United Nations inspectors left Iraq in 1998, creating an intelligence vacuum.

"Once the inspectors were gone, it was like losing your GPS guidance," a Pentagon official said, invoking as a metaphor the initials of the military's navigational satellites. "We were reduced to dead reckoning. We had to go back to our last fixed position, what we knew in '98, and plot a course from there. With dead reckoning, you're heading generally in the right direction, but you can swing way off to one side or the other," the official told the New York Times.

The officials' remarks come as the United States failed to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Prior to war, senior American officials had been insisting they had compelling evidence about Iraq's prohibited weapons programmes and belittled the inspectors for what they called failure to find the weapons despite intrusive searches.

"Even as they were conducting the most intrusive system of arms control in history, the inspectors missed a great deal," Vice President Dick Cheney had said last August, before the inspections resumed.

In a series of recent interviews with the Times, intelligence and other officials described the Central Intelligence Agency and the White House as essentially blinded after the UN inspectors were withdrawn from Iraq in 1998. They were left grasping for whatever slivers they could obtain, like unconfirmed reports of attempts to buy uranium, or fragmentary reports about movements of suspected terrorists.

Richard Kerr, who headed a four-member team of retired CIA officials that reviewed pre-war intelligence about Iraq, said analysts at the CIA and other agencies were forced to rely heavily on evidence that was five years old at least.

Intelligence analysts drew heavily "on a base of hard evidence growing out of the lead-up to the first war, the first war itself and then the inspections process". "We had a rich base of information," he said, and, after the inspectors left, "we drew on that earlier base."

"There were pieces of new information, but not a lot of hard information, and so the products that dealt with WMD were based heavily on analysis drawn out of that earlier period," Kerr said.

Even so, the Times says, just days before President Bush's State of the Union address in January, Paul D Wolfowitz, the deputy secretary of defence, described the intelligence as not only convincing but up-to-date.

"It is a case grounded in current intelligence," he told the Council on Foreign Relations in New York, "current intelligence that comes not only from sophisticated overhead satellites but from brave people who told us the truth at the risk of their lives. We have that; it is very convincing."

CIA director George Tenet expressed confidence in much of the intelligence about Iraq, saying it "comes to us from credible and reliable sources."

The paper said it was Cheney who, last September, was clearest about the fact that the US had only incomplete information. But he said that should not deter the country from taking action.

But the Times says within the White House, the shortage of fresh evidence touched off a struggle explaining the confusion about how the administration assembled its case.

[CTRL] Fwd: White House Had Only Out of Date Intelligence on Iraq

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No new evidence on Iraq
since 1998 UN inspections

TIMES of INDIA, JULY 21, 2003

The officials' remarks come as the United States failed to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

"There were pieces of new information, but not a lot of hard information, and so the products that dealt with WMD were based heavily on analysis drawn out of that earlier period," Kerr said.

CIA director George Tenet expressed confidence in much of the intelligence about Iraq, saying it "comes to us from credible and reliable sources."

The paper said it was Cheney who, last September, was clearest about the fact that the US had only incomplete information. But he said that should not deter the country from taking action.

But the Times says within the White House, the shortage of fresh evidence touched off a struggle explaining the confusion about how the administration assembled its case.

[CTRL] Fwd: Nepotocracy in America

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---BeginMessage---
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Dynastic rule: It happens in America too

ONLY IN AMERICA / CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA

TIMES OF INDIA NEWS NETWORK [ JULY 19, 2003

Those who despair about nepotism in India can draw cold comfort on this front from developments in the United States, the great exemplar of democracy. The Bush regime is spawning such a huge forest of spouses, sons, daughters, siblings etc in positions of power that this country can bid fair to be called a Nepotocracy.

The Kennedys, Bushes, and Gores are familiar names and stories. In fairness, most of them - like their Indian political kith -- had to earn their positions by getting elected, although familial connections gave them a head start. Both Elizabeth Dole and Hillary Clinton, Senators now, won hard fought elections. Better known because of their spousal connections, they were nevertheless significant pols themselves. Besides, their husbands were both first generation politicians.

Under the current administration, nepotism has begun to spread to the unelected ranks of the government too. We start with Secretary of State Colin Powell, whose son Michael Powell was made chairman of the powerful Federal Communications Commission (FCC). Vice President Dick Cheney's daughter Elizabeth Cheney is a Deputy Assistant Secretary of State and her husband is the chief counsel for the Office of Budget and Management.
Top Republican lawmakers are also part of this familial bonanza. Senator Mitch McConnel's wife Elaine Chao is Secretary of Labour, and her chief attorney Eugene Scalia, is the son of Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, who was part of the team that anointed George Bush President in that controversial verdict (Meanwhile, Chief Justice William Rehnquist's daughter works for the Health and Human Services Department). The late Centenarian Senator Strom Thurmonds son Strom Thurmond Jr, 28, has been made the US Attorney for South Carolina. The malaise is also spreading across the states as brothers and sisters, sons and daughters, wives and widows are stepping up to represent the world's greatest democracy. One of the best known examples is of course from Florida, where Governor Jeb Bush, thought to be the smarter of the brothers Bush, rules. Less known is Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney, son of the former Michigan Governor George Romney. Meanwhile, in New Hampshire, another gubernatorial son John Sununu won a Senate seat, while in Arkansas, Tim Hutchinson, whose brother Asa Hutchinson is a former Congressman and is now Undersecretary in the Department of Homeland Security, lost his Senate seat to Mark Pryor, son of former Arkansas Governor and Senator David Pryor. Other Congressional "descendants" include House Minority leader Nancy Pelosi, whose father was a five-term Maryland Congressman, and California Congresswoman Lucille Roybal-Allard, who occupies the seat once held by her father.
Some Americans though are defending this rash of nepotism, pointing out that this has been a familiar occurrence in the US over the years and has done little to dilute the country's reputation as the land of opportunity. Generational succession has been quite common in American businesses (Ford, Rockefeller etc) and moviedom (Jane and Peter Fonda, Michael Douglas, Gwyneth Paltrow etc).

The subject is being treated at length in a forthcoming book In Praise of Nepotism by Adam Bellow, an executive editor at large for the publishing firm Doubleday, and son of Nobel laureate Saul Bellow.

[CTRL] Fwd: Bush Following in Nixon's Footsteps (Out the Door)

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---BeginMessage---
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Bush stonewalling will bring on probe

By Thomas Oliphant
Boston Globe, 7/20/2003

President Bush has already lost - or more accurately, discarded - the first line of defense vis-a-vis Congress for misbehaving chief executives.

By opting for a political, as opposed to evidentiary, defense for what was at least the hyping and at worst the manipulation of intelligence information about Iraq, Bush has given up the chance to forestall a relatively formal investigation of his administration's actions by laying out a full version of what happened.

Not a month ago, as the frustration about ''missing'' Iraqi chemical and biological weapons was evolving into suspicions about phony nuclear weapons information, Senate Intelligence Committee chairman Pat Roberts of Kansas, a Republican, was a willing stonewaller. In helping to block hearings into prewar intelligence, Roberts declared there was no evidence of misdeeds and that holding hearings would merely imply there was.

Last week, he was singing an entirely different tune, vowing that ''we will take this where it leads us; we'll let the chips fall where they may.'' That includes the White House - accountings from Vice President Cheney and National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice are going to be difficult to evade.

Roberts's switch follows the expressions of other Republicans whose independence is a matter of record - especially John McCain and Foreign Relations Committee big shots Richard Lugar and Chuck Hagel. In any congressional investigation the first [signs of a president having lost "defensibility"] are provided by an administration's fellow party members. That is now occurring.

Roberts did more than switch. In pledging to let the facts lead his probe, the Kansan was opening the door to inquiry into a wide range of statements about Iraq's alleged possession of unconventional weaponry made by Bush, Cheney, and Rice, statements that make it clear that the infamous 16 words in Bush's State of the Union address were but the tip of a hyperbolic iceberg.

What tipped Roberts's hand was CIA Director George Tenet's odd appearance behind closed committee doors last week. The conventional view was that Tenet had fallen on his sword by accepting responsibility for not keeping the words out of the speech. Apparent from his testimony, however, was that this view is misleading.

According to senators from both parties, Tenet's act was anything but ritual suicide. His admission that he hadn't bothered to read the relevant sections and drafts of Bush's speech is less than dereliction and possibly no more than good taste. What is more interesting is the fact he brought a senior aide to Roberts's hearing to continue what has all the trappings of a feud with Rice's national security staff.

Even before Tenet issued his alleged declaration of responsibility on July 11, several of us in the press were aware of a conflict between the CIA and the national security staff about their discussions that preceded the insertion of the 16 words about Africa in the speech. We were also aware of the identity of the negotiators: a senior CIA expert on unconventional weapons (Alan Foley) and the antiproliferation guy at the NSC (Robert Joseph).

Foley's basic account is that the CIA would have problems with any citation of British intelligence referring to a possible effort by Iraq to purchase additional uranium ore from Niger because of doubts about its credibility. He also said the CIA would have problems with any specific reference to Niger or to alleged efforts to acquire a specific amount of the nuclear bomb raw material. This dovetails with a successful effort last October by Tenet to get similar language out of another important presidential address.

The White House version amounts to a

[CTRL] [Langley_CITIZENS] Re: [bcrants] HOW MANY 'OLYMPIC' FREE-LOADERS DO I HAVE TO SUPPORT?? (fwd)

2003-07-26 Thread Party of Citizens

-Caveat Lector-

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2003 12:31:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Party of Citizens [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Fred Hutter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Labour Welfare Party [EMAIL PROTECTED],
 [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Langley_CITIZENS] Re: [bcrants] HOW MANY  'OLYMPIC'  FREE-LOADERS
DO I HAVE TO SUPPORT??

It is best to reap what u sow with interest. That is the capitalist way.
Forget about what LWP and the Looney Left say because we masters of high
finance know best. See our new POC link for connection to how Campbell is
going to win Olympic Gold for Serial Murder, outdoing even the Pig Farmer
of Port Coquitlam. Maybe Missionary Man can now regale us with one of his
sermons on reaping what u sow.

Zandu Goldbar, aka Zandu the Magnificent
Financier

 * http://www.geocities.com/partyofcitizens **

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003, Fred Hutter wrote:

   u reap what u sow ...
 fh

 Clint Johnson wrote:

  Thats what you get for volunteering. It is but working for free. How
  convenient it is that volunteer work and slavery have something in common!

  I personally would never volunteer. Not unless I was rich and had free
  time, albeit I have more free time now than I could ever ask for,
  since college is out for the summer =)

  -Clint

  -Original Message-
  From: Bruce White [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 10:37 AM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: [bcrants] HOW MANY 'OLYMPIC' FREE-LOADERS DO I HAVE TO
  SUPPORT??

  Most folks have NO idea how hard,how long volunteers work,before
  during and after an event.How tired they get but keep on
  smiling,plowing onward.I did the Games in Edmonton in the 80's and
  anyone who thinks a 50 to 60 hour work week is too much,never needs
  volunteer for something like that.Plus,how well is it known that
  nearly ALL of these volunteers have to pay out their own cash to BUY
  the privilege of volunteering.Thought that should be out there
  Fred.Thx Bruce

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www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substanceânot soap-boxingâplease!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'âwith its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsâis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Kosher Conservative Warns Mel Gibson's Movie May Be Undoing Of ADL

-Caveat Lector-

CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial

Except that which comes from Michael Hoffman and La Raza, apparently.

- jt

www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Kosher Conservative Warns Mel Gibson's Movie May Be Undoing ...

-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 7/26/2003 5:04:13 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

"CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial"

Except that which comes from Michael Hoffman and La Raza, apparently.

Where was there any "holocaust denial" in that piece? Denial? Holocaust DENIAL??
I didn't see that. I do believe there's a difference between denying that any Jews were killed by the Nazis and questioning whether 6 million were killed by a systematic program of genocide...don't you?

Bill.
www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Re: [CTRL] Kosher Conservative Warns Mel Gibson's Movie May Be Undoing ...

-Caveat Lector-

On Saturday, 26 July 2003 3:27 PM -0700,
William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 In a message dated 7/26/2003 5:04:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial
 
  Except that which comes from Michael Hoffman and La Raza, apparently.

 Where was there any holocaust denial in that piece? Denial? Holocaust
 DENIAL??
 I didn't see that. I do believe there's a difference between denying that
 any Jews were killed by the Nazis and questioning whether 6 million were
 killed by a systematic program of genocide...don't you?

Let me put it this way. I think Hoffman has some incisive analysis, until he
starts talking about anything to do with Jewish people or history. La Raza
is blatantly racist - in fact, both are. Holocaust revisionism is Hoffman's
specialty. Is Holocaust revisionism anything but Holocaust denial? I hardly
see any revisionist/denier claiming that the Holocaust never happened, just
that it was hyped. I consider neither source to be reliable regarding Jewish
people or anything to do with history regarding Jewish people - to give one
example, La Raza's claim of the Kosher Nostra scam is a complete
fabrication. Both have axes to grind, and their bias is obvious and ugly.
Are there problems with the way Israel operates? Yes, in many ways. But
these sources completely undermine the credibility of those who wish to put
forth such arguments.

- jt

www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Kosher Conservative Warns Mel Gibson's Movie May Be Undoi...

-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 7/26/2003 5:53:06 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Is Holocaust revisionism anything but Holocaust denial? 

I think it is.

 I hardly
see any revisionist/denier claiming that the Holocaust never happened, just
that it was hyped. 

Wasn't it? 

La Raza's claim of the "Kosher Nostra scam" is a complete
fabrication.

Oh? How so?

Bill.

www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Kosher Conservative Warns Mel Gibson's Movie May Be Undoi...

-Caveat Lector-

On Saturday, 26 July 2003 4:03 PM -0700,
William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 In a message dated 7/26/2003 5:53:06 PM Central Daylight Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Is Holocaust revisionism anything but Holocaust denial?

 I think it is.

Is what? Substantially different in any way?

  I hardly
 see any revisionist/denier claiming that the Holocaust never happened,
 just that it was hyped. 

 Wasn't it?

You'll need better sources to prove that than those who simply hate Jewish
people to make your case.

 La Raza's claim of the Kosher Nostra scam is a complete
 fabrication.

 Oh? How so?

This has already been explained in earlier posts. In any event, here's
another post from a different list outlining why:
http://www.freedomsite.org/pipermail/fs_discussion/2002-April/002085.html

Of course, this is from the ADL, so you have to keep that in mind. But this
also is in the same sense that the Kosher Nostra scam idea is being
promoted by the most virulent racist groups and people. La Raza provides no
proof for their claims - it is ALL conjecture. Also, although I don't
necessarily believe Snopes on everything, their analysis of this is pretty
spot-on: http://www.snopes.com/racial/business/kosher.htm

Their most salient point:
Does certification add to the price of a product? Certainly, but the amount
is miniscule, especially compared to the advertising, packaging, shipping,
research, testing, admin and finance-related costs, and a myriad of other
components that contribute to the process of bringing a product to market or
making it better appeal to consumers. One might as well rail against the
costs associated with selecting the ink colors and style of lettering used
on a package - it's all legitimate business expense, even though no one ever
rails against the Secret Red Ink Conspiracy or rants about the Helvetica
Font Tax.

As I said, there certainly are problems with the way that Israel operates.
But this sort of propaganda is based on nothing but fear and hatred of
Jewish people, and it smacks of the worst sort of racist smearing. I am
seeing this more and more often with people who object to Israel's actions,
who somehow find themselves believing all sorts of nonsense which is pushed
by those who aren't so much concerned about the actual political problems,
but who just plain hate Jewish people. It's a nasty trap, and what it
ultimately does is to put people who have legitimate complaints about Israel
into a position where it is accurate to describe what they promote as
anti-Semitic - yes, sometimes anti-Semitism really exists, although I
realize it has become a loaded phrase. IOW, it allows those who would defend
Israel at any cost or for any reason to make an easy case against those who
object to its actions, to disbelieve any other arguments coming from that
person as discredited, considering the source.

- jt

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Re: [CTRL] Kosher Conservative Warns Mel Gibson's Movie May Be Undoi...

-Caveat Lector-
In a message dated 7/26/2003 6:27:15 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Is Holocaust revisionism anything but Holocaust denial?

I think it is.

Is what? Substantially different in any way?

I think that bringing history into accord with the facts is a perfectly noble undertaking while denying an event for no reason, with no facts and simply to get a reaction is folly. To state that revisionism=denial is wrong.

As for trusting the ADL as a source on the Kosher scam...never. They aren't worthy of it. It is a plain fact that we all pay this tax in order to please less than 3% of our population who, for reasons of religious ignorance, demand "kosher" products...that is the crux of the problem. No other religious group so tiny could demand and receive this massive consideration.

Bill.
www.ctrl.org
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[CTRL] Police database, time limits - statutes, Amici Curiae - Stogner, 'God's banker'

2003-07-26 Thread Smart News

-Caveat Lector-







scroll for news articles

Police launch child abuse database 6/24/03 "A ground-breaking computer database that will enable police to trace child abuse victims and catch their abusers has been launched today in a bid to tackle internet paedophilia.The database, called Childbase, already includes 220,000 images distributed by paedophiles on the internet of children being abused." http://society.guardian.co.uk/children/story/0,1074,1005120,00.html

from L Moss Sharman Time limit weighed in abuse suit - By Brandon Griggs The Salt Lake Tribune "A judge will decide whether two Salt Lake County brothers waited too long to pursue their multimillion-dollar lawsuit against Utah's Roman Catholic diocese over a priest they claim sexually abused them in the early 1970s In addition, Keller argued the statute of limitations does not apply to Ralph Colosimo because he repressed his memories of the abuse until 2002." http://www.sltribune.com/2003/Jul/07232003/utah/77825.asp

Brief of Amici Curiae on Stogner case in support of respondent - "the California legislature determined section 803(g) was needed because victims of childhood sexual abuse often delay reporting the abuse" http://www.psyclaw.org/stogner-v-california.pdf

'God's banker' murdered by the Mafia 7/25/03 "Roberto Calvi, "God's banker", the Italian financier whose body was found hanging beneath Blackfriars Bridge in London more than 20 years ago, was murdered by the Mafia for mishandling its money, according to prosecutors charged with investigating one of Europe's most opaque criminal mysteries.As the circumstances surrounding it emerged, it became clear the Milanese banker was at the centre of a web of sensationally improbable connections linking his bank, the Banco Ambrosiano, not just to Cosa Nostra, but also to the Vatican's financial arm, the Institute for the Works of Religion, or IOR; offshore tax havens; cold war politics; and an influential rogue Masonic lodge, known as P2They concluded that the mafia acted not only in its own interests, but also to ensure that Calvi could not blackmail "politico-institutional figures and [representatives] of freemasonry, the P2 lodge, and the IOR with whom he had invested substantial sums of money, some of it from Cosa Nostra and Italian public corporations". The prosecutors said that the Milanese banker's death was "directly linked" to transfers of $1.3-billion -- the size of the "hole" found in Banco Ambrosiano's books when it collapsed, shortly before its president's death." http://www.mg.co.za/Content/l3.asp?ao=17733
www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Kosher Conservative Warns Mel Gibson's Movie May Be Undoi...

-Caveat Lector-

On Saturday, 26 July 2003 4:56 PM -0700,
William Shannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 In a message dated 7/26/2003 6:27:15 PM Central Daylight Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Is Holocaust revisionism anything but Holocaust denial?
  
   I think it is.
 
  Is what? Substantially different in any way?

 I think that bringing history into accord with the facts is a perfectly
 noble undertaking while denying an event for no reason, with no facts and
 simply to get a reaction is folly. To state that revisionism=denial is
 wrong.

But your sources are far less than credible to me on this account. If
accuracy is important, I implore you to find more objective sources.

 As for trusting the ADL as a source on the Kosher scam...never. They
 aren't worthy of it.

But you have no problem trusting Michael Hoffman nor La Raza, both of which
have obvious and blatant biases, and racist streaks a mile wide. I notice
you said nothing about the Snopes article.

 It is a plain fact that we all pay this tax in order
 to please less than 3% of our population who, for reasons of religious
 ignorance, demand kosher products...that is the crux of the problem. No
 other religious group so tiny could demand and receive this massive
 consideration.

If there were no demand for it by the public, then it wouldn't be used at
all. Again, this is a case of market demand. What is the exact cost, Bill?
It is miniscule, for what it's worth, amounting to a tiny fraction of the
cost of general marketing used on packaging, such as different color inks
and illustrations. And how are you being forced to pay for any of it? You
could simply not buy food from companies which use Kosher labeling, if you
so strongly object to any of your money going to anyone who would certify
Kosher. I thought you were a libertarian.

- jt

www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Kosher Conservative Warns Mel Gibson's Movie May Be Undoi...

Title: Message
-Caveat Lector-

There are many websites whichcall what
they doHistorical Revisionism. What makes them different from normal
academic research?
1. Academic research, though
short of perfect, allows for discussion of conclusions. Various viewpoints
based on angles of research are presented. Those who label themselves
historical revisionists are just that. Their goal is to revise
history. Open discussion is not encouraged.. It's like historical
research under Hitler or Stalin.

2. Academic research must
stand up to peer review, that is, others who have researched the same
subjects. Historical revisionism is written for an audience that wants to
justify certain conclusions.
3. Academic research that is
respectable is emotionally neutral. There is a level of self-discipline
that is expected of those presenting factual information.

4. Historical revisionists lack
a sense of proportion. If they find a flaw, they state thebaby
and the bathwater must go out the window.
While as individuals we like
tosupport the underdog,sometimes that can be dangerous as the
underdog rolemight be calculated to manipulate. The historical
revisionist information needs to be subject to the same rigorous standards
we use to accept information from others. It's obvious that we are not
getting unmanipulated information from sources we are supposed to trust.
That doesn't mean we need trust everyone who says the same words. The
world is more complex than that.
The following is taken from a
historical reivionist's website. Is this neutral research? The
emotional tone can be turned against any group that the author wishes to
attack. Are you prepared to defend yourself against this kind of emotional
attack for whatever stand you are
taking?
www.fixedearth.com/HISTREV.HTM
Historical Revisionists who have been
driven by a desire to see Truth prevail over deception have already been thru
Boot Camp and are toughened for this battle of battles. Whatever our backgrounds and present
beliefs, let us answer this highest of all callings and faithfully do the job
for which we are uniquely qualified.
That job is to confirm--and then amplify and broadcast in all ways
possible--the esoteric, Christ-hating, perversion-spreading, justice-denying,
arrogant teachings of the Talmud (basics HERE), and then do
likewise to the Kabbalistic pseudo-scientific machinations behind NASAs Big
Bang paradigm and its promotion of evolutionism thru its tax supported
Origins Program (basics HERE, HERE, HERE,

HERE.)

-Original Message-From: Conspiracy
Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
William ShannonSent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 6:04
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [CTRL] Kosher
Conservative Warns Mel Gibson's Movie May Be
"Undoi...-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 7/26/2003
5:53:06 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Is Holocaust revisionism anything but Holocaust denial?
I think it
is. I
hardlysee any revisionist/denier claiming that the Holocaust never
happened, justthat it was hyped. Wasn't it? La Raza's claim of the "Kosher
Nostra scam" is a completefabrication.Oh? How so?Bill.www.ctrl.org DECLARATION
DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list.
Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot
soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with
its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used
politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout
the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to
the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you
read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A
HREF=""ctrl/A
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subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL
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Om
www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not

Re: [CTRL] Kosher Conservative Warns Mel Gibson's Movie May Be Undoi...

-Caveat Lector-

Hey Shannon, the Islamic population also uses kosher labeling as a
determination of foods that are acceptable.  And Muslims and Orthodox
Jews are not the only ones.  Why not let capitalism determine whether
the companies want to go thru the kosher labeling process?  Or are you
against free enterprise also?

http://.soundvision.com/Info/halalhealthy/kosherlabeling.asp

www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!   These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] Fwd: Consider ...

-Caveat Lector-

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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---BeginMessage---
-Caveat Lector-
Excerpt from ConsortiumNews, "Bush's Grim Vision,"
by Nat Parry, June 21, 2002

snipOn April 11, the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court was ratified by enough countries to make the court a reality. Treaty ratification surged past the necessary 60 countries with the approval of Bosnia-Herzogovina, Bulgaria, Cambodia, Democratic Republic of Congo, Ireland, Jordan, Mongolia, Niger, Romania and Slovakia -- to go along with the support of all the nations of Western Europe and virtually every major U.S. ally.Taking effect on July 1 with an inaugural ceremony of the International Criminal Court expected as early as February 2003 the court will try people accused of genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes. Amnesty International has called the court "a historic development in the fight for justice." Human Rights Watch has called it "the most important new institution for enforcing human rights in 50 years."Reacting hostilely to the Rome Statute's ratification, Bush reiterated his opposition and repudiated President Clinton's decision to sign the accord. "The United States has no legal obligations arising from its signature on Dec. 31, 2000," the Bush administration said in a May 6 letter to U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan. "The United States requests that its intention not to become a party be reflected in the depositary's status lists relating to this treaty." [http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2002/9968.htm]

While the "unsigning" was a remarkable snub at the world's diplomats and at principles of civilized behavior that the U.S. has long championed, it will not itself stop the court's creation, nor does it legally absolve the United States from cooperating with it. But the letter does signal Bush's intent to undermine the court at every turn.

With strong administration support, House Republicans promoted a bill that would allow U.S. armed forces to invade the Hague, Netherlands, where the court will be located, to rescue U.S. soldiers if they are ever prosecuted for war crimes.

The bill, sponsored by House Majority Whip Tom DeLay, would bar U.S. military aid to countries that ratify the treaty. The bill also would prevent the U.S. from participating in peacekeeping missions that might put American soldiers under the court's jurisdiction. DeLay's bill even would prohibit the U.S. from sharing intelligence with the court regarding suspects being investigated or prosecuted. [http://www.wfa.org/issues/wicc/wicc.html]

The Bush administration's active campaign against the court places the U.S. alongside only one other country -- Libya.

snip

A Bleak Future

It no longer seems farfetched to think that George W. Bush might someday expand his extraordinary powers to silence those who ask difficult questions or criticize his judgment or otherwise give aid and comfort to the enemy.

When some Democrats demanded to know what Bush knew about the terror threats before Sept. 11, Cheney delivered a blunt warning. "My Democratic friends in Congress," Cheney said, "they need to be very cautious not to seek political advantage by making incendiary suggestions, as were made by some
today, that the White House had advance information that would have prevented the tragic attacks of 9/11." [Washington Post, May 17, 2002]

Bush, the first man in more than a century to take the White House after losing the popular vote, seems to have developed an abiding trust in his personal right to wield unlimited power. After succeeding in getting his allies on the U.S. Supreme Court to stop the counting of votes in Florida in December 2000, Bush may feel confident that he will have their help, too, in redefining the U.S. Constitution. Bush also may be confident that a frightened American populace will support his every move, regardless of how many freedoms they

[CTRL] Constance Cumbey on Solana