[CTRL] Pontificating Little Prick

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 12:16 AM 1/19/99 -0500, pontificating little prick wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>Listen -up Barb and Jim,
>This is my list to run as I wish. I can expose myself to any idea I wish.

blah, blah, blah.  Mine, Mine, Mine, Wah!  You are amazing.


I would have been unsubscribing soon, as my work is substantially complete,
but now seems a good time to exit.  This was my first list subscription and
describing the group dynamics alone has filled a small notebook.  (You are
sooo knowledgeable, I suggest that you review Tavestock as your group is a
classic example of its well-known theories.)   Jim is correct in that there
is a definite operational pattern on this list, and I have observed its
replication with tiresome regularity.

Although your list subscription numbers are relatively high (if not
exaggerated), the majority are clearly non-participating members.  As to
the core group of active members - with a small number of notable
exceptions - a more arrogant, pretentious and self-congratulatory bunch
would be hard to find!!  However, the most distinguishing feature of this
list is the blatant hypocrisy, e.g., continually insisting on
documentation, while refusing to provide any yourself - what unmitigated gall!!

While attempting to portray yourselves as open-minded researchers, the bulk
of your posts are political and economic dogma, flights of fantasy,
unsubstantiated rumors, and simple make believe with no, and I mean NO
basis in fact.  The posts that aren't simply opinion or fantasy, again,
with a few notable exceptions, are not even unique as they are comprised of
info readily available in dozens of other places.  The bulk of posts are
certainly not *research* by any definition.   While narrow minded bigotry
and prejudice is nowhere more prevalent than on this list, you insist on
presenting yourselves as morally superior!!

I was not planning to post at all when I subscribed, but couldn't resist a
few times and the results were always interesting.  Predictably, no one was
willing or able to address the outrageous assertions that minutely detailed
information is available to the likes of your group regarding various
powerful, super-secret organizations that purportedly rule the world.  How
effective could the machinations of any all-powerful organization be if its
members, meeting agendas, and activities are regularly published on the
Internet, even in the face of armed guards!!!  LOL, LOL.

Kris, you just keep sitting at your computer toking weed, living your
medieval fantasies.   Your life purpose is obviously the protected
environment that you so enthusiastically provide to those intellectually
challenged individuals whom you have collected.   Secure in the knowledge
that you will jump in and remove from the list any person who refuses to
conform or fold when the group attacks, your little band of idiots are free
to begin arguments they have not a prayer of finishing, and engaging in
their favorite activities of baiting, name calling, and proselytizing their
political, economic and religious beliefs.  (Oh yes, proselytizing is not
only allowed, but actively encouraged for the select few espousing pc
views!)   You are pitiful!!

Barb

BTW, as you are in the habit of depriving those you defame the courtesy of
defending themselves, I took the liberty of soliticating Hawk's response to
your last piece of malevolent tripe.   Not that I expect you or the
Stepford posters to understand.


---

> >Listen -up Barb and Jim,
> >This is my list to run as I wish. I can expose myself to any idea I wish.

He also doesn't mind exposing his ignorance and rudeness.

> >I do not have to, nor will I sustain promulugation of disruption and 'evil'.

Of course, he never was able to defend HIS basis for calling "anything" evil...
other than his own opinion.  Here we go again, "A fool does not delight in
understanding, but only in expressing his own opinions."  That's from the Book.

> >Racism and nazism are evil created by man. That is were evil comes from,
man.

The kicker here is, I never expressed a single racist thought.  This
imbecile is
the racist... HE *assumed* that "slave" = "negro."  It doesn't ... I would
venture,
though unable to prove it, that more whites, middle-easterners, and
orientals have
been slaves than have Negroes.  He also conveniently overlooked the fact
that my
own family is multi-racial AND multi-national... That "racist" idea is a
figment of
his imagination, useful in all arguments where logic won't support his
position.
As far a "Nazi" is concerned, that is totally absurd!  I am very close in
political
and economic thought to a Libertarian, which is almost the opposite of a
socialist
and the term Nazi, referred to members of the "National Socialist Party."

> Go look in the archives, Hawk and his psuedonymphette Charlene added very few
> >informational posts and if 

Re: [CTRL] Living in corporate America.

[Barb Witt]

At 07:56 PM 1/18/99 -0600, you wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>>>Barb Witt wrote:
>
>>>> Two pertinent articles (The Global Hand and Technology
Hoax), from the
>>>> April 21, 1997 edition of Forbes:
>>>>
>>>>
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/97/0421/5908085a.htm
>>>>
>>>> Barb
>>>
>>>Yeah right Barb. Forbes Magazine. The " Capitaist
tool." That's a good
>>>source for pointing out the disasters of the global
econmy.
>>>Joshua2
>>
>>However, if you're going to critique something, it is commonly
expected
>>that you at least peruse the material and then mention
specifics>
>>Barb
>>
>
>===
>This is from the posted site:
>"Capital emigrated, too. British money, instead of staying at
home, built
>railroads in the U.S. and Argentina, tea gardens in India, and
literally
>created Hong Kong and Calcutta. In a single year, 1871, London
absorbed over
>$100 million of American securities; by 1893 foreigners had sent $3
billion
>to the U.S.
>
>"National boundaries did not disappear; bloody wars were yet to
be fought
>over them. But for the first time in history people, money and goods
were
>able to flow across them quite freely.
>
>"It was as if a giant global hand—kind of like Adam Smith's
"invisible hand"
>gone international—rearranged the world economy. As Jeffrey
Williamson, an
>economics professor at Harvard, says of this period, 1860-1913:
"Capital and
>labor flowed across national boundaries in unprecedented quantity,
and
>commodity trade boomed."
>
>"The results, in terms of global well-being, were fabulous.
Railroad and
>steamship technology had made transportation much cheaper"
>
>==
>My question is where did the foreign capital come from?  Who
were the
>investors who bought the railroad stocks and bonds in America? 
What were
>their expectations concerning interest and dividends?  What
happened when
>the bonds defaulted?
>
>I submit much of the capital came from illegal trade--piracy, vice,
slavery
>and opium.  That's who founded Forbes.  The Forbes, Perkins
and Russell
>families founded Skull and Bones at Yale primarily, IMHO, to keep
their
>trade secrets and to recruit people to carry on the operations
throughout
>the world who would take an oath of secrecy.  That's why I tend
to discount
>much of what Forbes magazine publishes.
>
>Linda
>

Linda, you give your reasons for questioning the character of
Forbes, Perkins and Russell families (ironic, aren't you the Clinton
supporter), but I question the relevancy.  I wonder:

(1)  How is the historical origin of Forbes money relevant to
whether or not the assertions of the authors of the subject articles is
true?;

(2)  Do you disagree with the premises stated by the authors?;

(3)  If so, which ones, and why?;

(4)  What is inherently evil about *trade secrets*?;

(5)  What person who took an oath of secrecy spilled the beans to
you?

Barb

Re: [CTRL] Living in corporate America.

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 10:40 AM 1/18/99 -0800, you wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>Barb Witt wrote:
>>
>>  -Caveat Lector-
>>
>> At 09:34 PM 1/16/99 -0800, you wrote:
>> > -Caveat Lector-
>> >
>> >"M.A. Johnson" wrote:
>> >>
>> >>  -Caveat Lector-
>> >>
>> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> >>I would estimate that of over 50% of all consumer manufactured
>> >>goods are coming from Communist China.  Why? Well, because the
>> >>capitalist built their latest and best manufacturing plants
>> >>there? Why? Cheap Labour. Huge Market.
>> >>
>> >> MJ:
>> >> How long has labor been cheap abroad?  Why is it only in recent
>> >> years we have had a (purported) mass exodus?  Could it be the
>> >> regulatory load which has escalated over the past recent years?
>> >>
>> >> Regard$,
>> >> --MJ
>> >
>> >What do you mean " purported?" Where is America's manufacturing base?
>> >Did it disappear down a rabbit hole? There's nothing purported about
>> >American corporations leaving in droves. This is bullshit on your
>> >part and you know it. You take a foolish position, you have to defend
>> >it by flinging bovine droppings and red herrings.
>> >
>> >American companies had been buying their way out of regulations more
>> >and more in the years before leaving these shores for foreign labor.
>> >As a matter of fact, they got tax breaks for doing it. This could only
>> >happen because they got more complete control of Congress.
>> >
>> >American corporations are owned by the Rich and their managerial sub-
>> >class. These two groups have a long history of theft, violence, crime,
>> >and treason against the citizens, workers, and country of the USA.
>> >
>> >Only a twisted Libertarian would blame regulations as the reason for
>> >industrial flight. Everyone with any sense at all knows it's for
>> >profit. Workers and nation be damned.
>> >
>> >Joshua2
>> >
>> Two pertinent articles (The Global Hand and Technology Hoax), from the
>> April 21, 1997 edition of Forbes:
>>
>> http://www.forbes.com/forbes/97/0421/5908085a.htm
>>
>> Barb
>
>
>Yeah right Barb. Forbes Magazine. The " Capitaist tool." That's a good
>source for pointing out the disasters of the global econmy.
>
>Who do you cite to advance the glory of the Catolic church?
>Martin Luther?
>
>Joshua2

It's my practice not to discuss religion with fundamentalists,  nor do I
discuss economics with the "true believers" in socialism/communism.  As
with everything on this list, you can choose to read the articles or not.
However, if you're going to critique something, it is commonly expected
that you at least peruse the material and then mention specifics.   The
irony of someone like yourself commenting regarding a lack of objectivity
is too funny for words.  And use your damn spell checker.

Barb

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] PJ lied under oath?

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 10:02 PM 1/17/99 -0500, you wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>In a message dated 1/17/99 10:03:57 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
><< We believe in 'such conspiracies', but we also know that Klinton has
> absolutely NO self-control, and is the sole cause of his own loss of
> 'credibility and reputation'.  We also know that when it comes to
> assassination, Klinton is the master of the game. >>
>
>Ah June, you have so much insider knowlege.  Prudy

Consider rephrasing that to:  Ah June, you have so much common knowledge.
(Oh, and you might consider adding a meeeowww, just to get the tone right).

Barb
>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>nazi's need not apply.
>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>Archives Available at:
>http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
>
>http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>
>To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>
>To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>
>Om

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 08:13 PM 1/17/99 -0800, Chris wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:
>>I understand, some persons are simply unable to bear the discomfort that
>>can result from exposure to the ideas of others, and are especially
>>confounded when those ideas directly challenge their own world view.  It
>>is
>>probably better that you filter, rather than overextend.
>>
>>Barb
>
>
>maybe you and squawk ought to start your own list, then you could expose
>each other to the truth and logic of your ideas. and you would not be
>lonely because you would have each other.
>
>grinnin' dis time,
>chris

Chris, you know I'd never leave without you!!  Besides, you need truth and
logic and who would worry about your meds??

Barb
>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>nazi's need not apply.
>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>Archives Available at:
>http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
>
>http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>
>To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>
>To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>
>Om

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Why Can't Cameras Show Senators?

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 09:59 PM 1/17/99 -0500, you wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>In a message dated 1/17/99 9:46:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>writes:
>
><< clear.) What is the judicial logic that disallows camera views
> of the assembled senators? >>
>
>I think they got stung when the Republicans in the House obviously were having
>such a high old time beating up on the president, so while the Senate
>Republicans are probably grinning, poking each other, and having a few
>downright belly laughs, the camera can't show it.  This way when they tell us
>they consider this kangaroo court a serious, painful precedure, we can't tell
>by looking what a good time they are really having.  Prudy

I stand in awe of the way you weave every subject imaginable into the
pattern of your never ending story.  Are you capable of writing about
ANY theme without reducing it to bad Republicans and saintly Democrats?  If
so, please have mercy on us all.

Barb
>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>nazi's need not apply.
>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>Archives Available at:
>http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
>
>http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>
>To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
>SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
>SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Om

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Slave Documentation - H.H.

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 07:05 PM 1/17/99 +,  Snobird wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-

>Congratulations, Hawk!
>
>You have made it to my Filter-Delete list.
>
>I have absolutely no idea what you are doing here. I have absolutely no idea
>what
>you're trying to say to people on this list that has any value.. And until
>something
>convinces me otherwise, I want to save the bandwith.
>
>IMO, Kris is making a mistake trying to "argue" with you. I'm sorry to see
>that. You
>are clearly a no-win kinda guy.
>
>Enjoy your Mercedes. Have a nice day.
>sno0wl

I understand, some persons are simply unable to bear the discomfort that
can result from exposure to the ideas of others, and are especially
confounded when those ideas directly challenge their own world view.  It is
probably better that you filter, rather than overextend.

Barb
>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>nazi's need not apply.
>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>Archives Available at:
>http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
>
>http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>
>To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
>SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
>SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Om

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Re: [CTRL] PJ lied under oath?

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

Linda:  I am interested and appreciate your posts on the subject from
various sources.

Barb

At 09:59 AM 1/17/99 -0600, Linda Minor wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>Barb Witt wrote:
>>Since you seem very convinced, and recite your story as if factual, it
>>would be helpful to me if you could provide at least one or two specific
>>details, eg, who are the members of this cabal, how do they choose their
>>victims, are they all the victims of this group "important political
>>figures," what is the agenda of this group, etc.  Sorry, it just seems
>>improbable to me that it would take a well-orchestrated cabal, major
>>planning, and an entire caste of characters flawlessly executing
>>pre-planned movements to get Clinton to drop his pants, or lie, etc.
>>
>+
>Barb,
>If you're truly interested in learning how this cabal operates, try reading
>the following article.  It may interest you to know that Theodore Olson is
>married to the Barbara Olson who has been appearing on the talk-show
>circuit, especially Larry King Live.
>
>Linda
>
>==
>from:
>http://www.larouchepub.com/olson_starr_salon.html
>
> This article appeared in the March 13, 1998 issue of Executive Intelligence
>Review.
>
>Secret Operation vs. Clinton Is Run by Olson-Starr Salon
>by Edward Spannaus
>Dramatic new information developed by EIR on the role of Washington lawyer
>Theodore B. Olson as the power behind independent counsel Kenneth Starr,
>suggests that President Clinton is the target of an illegal, rogue
>intelligence operation being carried out under the putative authority of the
>1981 Presidential Executive Order 12333.
>
>There are close parallels between the operation being run against Clinton,
>and that carried out against Lyndon LaRouche by some of the same circles, in
>the 1980s. The railroad against LaRouche was conducted as a covert foreign
>intelligence operation under the provisions of E.O. 12333--which permitted
>the "privatization" of intelligence operations. Key to the ensuing
>prosecution and judicial frame-up of LaRouche was a "softening up" process
>of defamation conducted through news media assets of George Bush's "secret
>government."
>
>This propaganda campaign was coordinated through a series of secret "Get
>LaRouche" meetings at the New York apartment of Wall Street spook/financier
>John Train--in what has become known as the "Train salon"--which included
>representatives of government intelligence and law enforcement agencies,
>plus news media representatives, including the Wall Street Journal. The
>"Train salon" was a project of the "Public Diplomacy" effort run out of the
>National Security Council, under the direction of George Bush's national
>security adviser Donald Gregg, and Gregg's associate, longtime CIA
>propaganda specialist Walter Raymond. According to evidence obtained by the
>Congressional committees investigating Iran-Contra, the initial financing
>for the Public Diplomacy program came from two intelligence-linked sources:
>Richard Mellon Scaife's foundations, and the Smith-Richardson Foundation.
>
>As we shall see, the same sort of "public-private" operation is now being
>conducted against President Clinton, by circles around Theodore Olson.
>
>In the LaRouche case, the "foreign counterintelligence" hook for the
>investigation was the allegation--circulated by Henry Kissinger and circles
>in the FBI--that LaRouche was a Soviet agent of influence, or a Soviet
>disinformation agent. It is likely that, in the case of Clinton, the pretext
>is the charge, circulating widely among circles within the FBI and private
>right-wing networks, that Clinton is guilty of treason for allowing secret
>intelligence to flow to China, in exchange for campaign contributions.
>
>The Olson salon
>The "Get Clinton" salon meets regularly at the home of former Justice
>Department official Olson, a longtime close friend and associate of Kenneth
>Starr, and of Olson's wife Barbara, chief counsel for Rep. Dan Burton's
>House Government Reform and Oversight Committee. Burton's committee has been
>noisily conducting investigations of the "Chinagate" allegations around
>Democratic Party campaign fundraising, and of other alleged Clinton
>administration transgressions.
>
>The gatherings include: Whitewater prosecutor Kenneth Starr, Federal appeals
>court judge Laurence Silberman, former judge Robert Bork, Supreme Court
>associate justice Clarence Thomas, Wall Street Journal editor Robert
>Bartley, American Spectator editor Emmett Tyrrell, and many others.
>
>A glimpse int

Re: [CTRL] PJ lied under oath?

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 09:41 AM 1/16/99 -0500, you wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>In a message dated 1/15/99 8:19:22 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
><< Sex, period.  Not 'sexual relations', not 'sex act'...it's all parsing
> words, anyways, cuz anyone with half a brain knows sex = sex act = sexual
> relations >>
>
>It's interesting as a matter of discussion, but for some it's a matter of
>getting fired.  According to the AP writer, Brenda Coleman (reported in my
>morning paper), one Dr. George D. Lundberg, editor of The Journal of the
>American Medical Association for l7 years was fired Friday for publishing a
>what-is-sex survey of college students to coincide with President Clinton's
>impeachment trial.   The article - "Would You Say You Had Sex' If...? found
>that 59 percent of college students surveyed did not consider having oral sex
>as having "had sex."   What is and what isn't having sexual relations is
>obviously very serious business.  Or at least it is to the AMA.   Prudy

This survey, if true, speaks volumes regarding education, mind control and
indoctrination - not to mention stupidity.  Scary stuff.

Barb

The curse of the intelligentsia is their ability to rationalize and
re-define.  Ordinary people, lacking that gift, are forced to face reality.
--Thomas Sowell

>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>nazi's need not apply.
>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>Archives Available at:
>http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
>
>http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>
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>Om

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Living in corporate America.

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 09:34 PM 1/16/99 -0800, you wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>"M.A. Johnson" wrote:
>>
>>  -Caveat Lector-
>>
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>I would estimate that of over 50% of all consumer manufactured
>>goods are coming from Communist China.  Why? Well, because the
>>capitalist built their latest and best manufacturing plants
>>there? Why? Cheap Labour. Huge Market.
>>
>> MJ:
>> How long has labor been cheap abroad?  Why is it only in recent
>> years we have had a (purported) mass exodus?  Could it be the
>> regulatory load which has escalated over the past recent years?
>>
>> Regard$,
>> --MJ
>
>What do you mean " purported?" Where is America's manufacturing base?
>Did it disappear down a rabbit hole? There's nothing purported about
>American corporations leaving in droves. This is bullshit on your
>part and you know it. You take a foolish position, you have to defend
>it by flinging bovine droppings and red herrings.
>
>American companies had been buying their way out of regulations more
>and more in the years before leaving these shores for foreign labor.
>As a matter of fact, they got tax breaks for doing it. This could only
>happen because they got more complete control of Congress.
>
>American corporations are owned by the Rich and their managerial sub-
>class. These two groups have a long history of theft, violence, crime,
>and treason against the citizens, workers, and country of the USA.
>
>Only a twisted Libertarian would blame regulations as the reason for
>industrial flight. Everyone with any sense at all knows it's for
>profit. Workers and nation be damned.
>
>Joshua2
>
>>
>> The policy of the American government is to leave their
>> citizens free, neither restraining nor aiding them in
>> their pursuits. -- Thomas Jefferson to M. L'Hommande, 1787.


Two pertinent articles (The Global Hand and Technology Hoax), from the
April 21, 1997 edition of Forbes:

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/97/0421/5908085a.htm

Barb

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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[CTRL] FIGHTING NORWAY'S NAMING LAW

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

--Caveat Lector-

Fred is a credible and knowledgeable person.  Does anyone have additional
info about the Norway Naming Law?

Barb

From: Fred Battey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: FIGHTING NORWAY'S NAMING LAW
:
:
:

We still have relative freedom, although we are seeing our freedoms rapidly
decreased as government tries to regulate and control every aspect of our
lives.  Below is a good example of what happens when government becomes
thus involved.  This is only one example of hundreds if not thousands of
what has happened in other nations who have caved under the pressures of
socialist and dictatorial government control.  The battle we are involved
in is not a sideline effort, and not just restricted to the education
arena.  Education just happens to be one, although a major, arena in the
push for total societal, economic and financial control of our nation.  Can
the below happen in our country?  You betcha!  Can we be required to carry
official ID on our persons at all times as is required in most European
countries?  You betcha!  Can we be required to use only designated
healthcare as is the case in many countries?  You betcha!  Can we be
monitored on the care of our children and required to enter them into
"approved" facilities from pre-birth, through pre-school, through total
education?  You betcha!  And please understand I am not talking about 5
years from now, but much sooner unless there is a major change in our
course.  To believe otherwise is playing directly into the hands of the
those who are the driving force behind the movement.

Fred
_
FIGHTING NORWAY'S NAMING LAW
The Name Game
World Magazine, Jan. 9, 1999

Kirsti Larsen was thrown in a Norwegian jail because she gave her son a
first name that was not on the government's list of acceptable choices. She
named him Gesher, which means "bridge" In Hebrew.

This violates Norway's strict laws regulating names, which include lists of
acceptable first and last names. When Mrs. Larsen tried to register her
son's name as Gesher at her local county office back in 1995, it was
rejected as Illegal. She appealed repeatedly but was ordered to change the
name, pay a $210 fine, or spend two days in jail.

Mrs. Larsen refused to change the name of her boy, who is now four. So she
went to prison for two days, leaving her husband and 10 children at home.
But since little Gesher is still named Gesher, no one knows how this
dispute will be settled.

"Many probably would have bowed to 'Big Brother' and paid the fine. On
principle, I couldn't go along with such absurdity," Mrs. Larsen told the
Vordens Gang newspaper. "Maybe the authorities thought I would come running
with the money when they ordered me to serve my sentence just before
Christmas, but I didn't let them scare me."

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Re: [CTRL] PJ lied under oath?

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 06:02 PM 1/16/99 -0600, LM wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>Assuming, arguendo, that your imaginary scenario is true, it proves nothing
>other than Clinton is lacking in self-control and easily manipulated.  The
>rest is entertaining, but clearly irrelevant.
>
>Barb
>
>
>On the contrary.  It indicates a well-orchestrated cabal planned a coup
>d'etat.  The people who planned it are of the same ilk as those who killed
>John and Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King.  But they found they can
>only murder so many important political figures without making people
>suspicious.  (Who would have ever thought 35 years later people like some of
>us on this list are still determined to find out who did it.)  So the next
>best option is to destroy the credibility and reputation of the individual.
>If you don't believe such conspiracies exist, why do you subscribe to this
>list?
>
>Linda

Are you saying that one must believe ANYTHING in order to subscribe to this
list?  Come up with proof, or even a set a facts from which a reasonable
person would conclude your story is plausible, otherwise it's just that - a
story.

Since you seem very convinced, and recite your story as if factual, it
would be helpful to me if you could provide at least one or two specific
details, eg, who are the members of this cabal, how do they choose their
victims, are they all the victims of this group "important political
figures," what is the agenda of this group, etc.  Sorry, it just seems
improbable to me that it would take a well-orchestrated cabal, major
planning, and an entire caste of characters flawlessly executing
pre-planned movements to get Clinton to drop his pants, or lie, etc.

Barb
>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>nazi's need not apply.
>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>Archives Available at:
>http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
>
>http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>
>To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>
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>
>Om

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] PJ lied under oath?

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 12:17 PM 1/15/99 -0600, Linda Minor wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>Carlene M. Wojahn wrote:
>>>
>>> Someone correct me if I'm wrong.  Isn't the only thing Clinton admitted
>to
>>> lying about the fact that he had sex with Monica Lewinsky?
>>
>>Ahhh...but he hasn't admitted that..you see they didn't have sexual
>>relations...he wasn't having any with her, she was having relations with
>him.
>
>+++
>The point so many people seem to be missing is that this whole scandal
>started with a lawsuit brought by a woman whose credibility is severely in
>question, at a time when the law was not even clear whether a civil lawsuit
>could be brought against a sitting president.

The law was clear to everyone, especially Clinton and his counsel.

---Snip-

>Suppose for a moment that she lied about what happened.  Suppose also that
>the lawyers were acting on behalf of politically motivated individuals who
>hate Clinton for political reasons only--because his policies hurt their
>pocketbooks, for example.

Lawyers taking a matter to trial on behalf of politically motivated
plaintiff(s) - now that's something that you don't see every single day on
every docket in the country!!

Suppose these same people knew Monica's
>proclivities and Bill's weakness and set up a scenario for him to fall into,
>while at the same time pushing the Jones case through the court so that
>depositions could be taken.  Then they monitored Monica's reports through
>agents Tripp and Goldberg, making sure any available evidence (like the
>dress) is preserved.
>
>I believe this scenario--given the connections between Ted and Barbara
>Olson, Kenneth Starr, the Rutherford Foundation and Richard Mellon
>Scaife--is much more credible than the "common sense" allegations Starr
>presented to Congress, without any real evidence, such as any small-town
>prosecutor in Texas would have to have in order to convict anybody for
>anything.  If the real evidence he had, and the way he got it were revealed,
>and were subject to cross-examination in a real court, the judge would
>dismiss the case without presenting it to the jury.
>
>Linda

Assuming, arguendo, that your imaginary scenario is true, it proves nothing
other than Clinton is lacking in self-control and easily manipulated.  The
rest is entertaining, but clearly irrelevant.

Barb
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] MICROSOFT AND THE BAVARIAN ILLUMINATI

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

One thing has always puzzled me and I respectfully request the experienced
conspiracy researchers on this list to explain how the movements, actions
and membership of *supersecret* organizations seems to be common
knowledge??  One post even talked about a meeting surrounded with armed
guards to ensure privacy, and then proceeded to set forth the meeting
attendees and agenda.  I would sincerely appreciate clarification, or if
you know whether something is in the archives already.

Also, organizations touting great secrecy and knowledge to which only a few
are privy advertising in the back of magazines and all over the Internet?
Seems contradictory and certainly not very secret.

Thanks,

Barb

At 02:21 PM 1/15/99 -0800, SW wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>Please send as far and wide as possible.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Robert Sterling
>Editor, The Konformist
>http://www.konformist.com
>
>http://www.konformist.com/1999/ms33.htm
>
>MICROSOFT AND THE BAVARIAN ILLUMINATI
>
> "The chessboard is the world, the pieces are the phenomena of the
> universe, the rules of the game are the laws of nature. The player on
> the other side is hidden from us." -- Thomas Henry Huxley
>
> "In every grain of wheat there lies hidden the soul of a star."
> -- Arthur Machen
>
> "The Old Ones were, the Old Ones are and the Old Ones will be... not
> in the spaces we know of, but _between_ them ... Yog-Sothoth is the
> Gate." -- Abd al-Hazred, _Al Azif_
>
> "All perception is inferential; all inference uncertain; all
> theory, a combination of perception and inference, is therefore
> educated guessing."
> -- de Selby, _Golden Hours_, I, 93
>
>These days most people have heard of Microsoft Corporation, and its
>founder Bill Gates. The majority of computers in use today use Microsoft
>system software, and those that do not often run applications from
>Microsoft. However, few people know the true story behind the rise of
>Microsoft and even fewer suspect the terrible cosmic secrets that are
>concealed beneath the facade of a successful software company.
>
>In the Object Linking and Embedding 2.0 Programmer's Reference there is
>a very curious term. On page 78, the second paragraph starts with the
>sentence, "In the aggregation model, this internal communication is
>achieved through coordination with a special instance of IUnknown
>interface known as the controlling unknown of the aggregate." The term
>"controlling unknown" is a very interesting choice of words. It is not the
most
>intuitively obvious term for what it is describing (a base class used for
>implementing an object-oriented data exchange/embedding system).
>
>A term strikingly similar to "controlling unknown" was the term "unknown
>superiors", used by many occult secret societies. These included the Strict
>Observance Masonic lodge, whose members were sometimes referred to
>as "illuminati", and which had some connection with Adam Weishaupt's
>order. "Unknown superiors" is a term that refers to non-corporeal or
>superhuman agencies in command of secret societies or mystery cults.
>Such an agency is frequently known as the "inner head" of an order of
>organisation, as opposed to the outer head, who is human.
>
>Organisations that claimed or were claimed to be commanded by such
>"unknown superiors" include the Ordo Templi Orientis of Aleister Crowley
>and the Knights Templar, whose Inner Head was apparently a being named
>Baphomet.
>
>Apart from the term "controlling unknown", another hint at the secrets
>behind Microsoft is the fact that Microsoft Windows has a limit of five
>window device contexts. Five is a decidedly odd number for such an
>application, being neither a power of two nor one less than a power of two,
>but let us not forget Adam Weishaupt's discovery of the Law of Fives in the
>Necronomicon*.
>
>Few people for sure how many buildings there are in the Microsoft campus
>in Redmond, WA. No maps of the entire facility are known to exist. Some
>Microsoft employees put the estimate at six or three. An article in an
>Australian newspaper has claimed that there are 22 buildings. That is partly
>true; however, there is another building, hidden from the public and even
>from most Microsoft employees. The twenty-third building, or Building 7, is
>pentagonal in shape; its exact location is known only to five people (of
>whom Bill Gates may be one), however it is believed that the building is
>accessible from elsewhere in the Microsoft campus by a secret passage.
>
>What is in the five sided building is not known. However, it is believed that
>the contents of Building 7 are of a supernatural nature. Apart from the
>Pentagon, there was a similar five-sided building in Nazi Germany. This
>has been carefully kept hidden from the public. One hypothesis is that
>Building 7 is inhabited by, or used to communicate with, the Inner Head, or
>"controlling unknown". The identity of the Outer Head is unknown. Bill Gates
>may be the Ou

Re: [CTRL] Striped Sleeves Mean Impeachment Is Military?

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 07:23 PM 1/15/99 -0500, Brian Redman wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>>  -Caveat Lector-
>>
>> Rehnquist's stripes are old news - he added them long before this
>> impeachment business even began.
>>
>> Barb
>>
>
>>Is there some way you can verify that? You may, for all I
>>know, be correct, but it would help me a lot if you could
>>provide some source for what you say. Thank you.
>
>>Brian Redman
>>Editor, CNNS
>
Sure, Rehnquist's imperial robes initially caused a stir when he showed up
in his stripes at Clinton's1995 State of the Union Address, which was
televised.  There is also a Time article in the 2/6/95 issue which
references Rehnquist's getup.

Barb

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] Striped Sleeves Mean Impeachment Is Military?

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

Rehnquist's stripes are old news - he added them long before this
impeachment business even began.

Barb

At 02:57 PM 1/15/99 -0600, you wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>STRIPED SLEEVES MEAN IMPEACHMENT IS MILITARY?
>=
>
>(CNNS, 01/15/99) --  Those  are  not  just  striped sleeves Chief
>Judge William Rehnquist  is  wearing  as  he  presides  over  the
>impeachment  trial  of  Bill  Clinton.   Those  are  GOLD-striped
>sleeves.
>
>An  article in the New York Times (Electronic Edition) dated Jan.
>15, 1999, describes Judge  Rehnquist specifically as "resplendent
>in his black gown with four gold stripes on each sleeve."
>
>A commentary in the New York Post, by Steve Dunleavy,  also  sees
>gold, but Dunleavy describes "three gold stripes  on  his  robe."
>["We  Could  Witness  A  Total  Travesty If Republicans Fold," by
>Steve Dunleavy. NYPost, 1/15/99]
>
>There  is  disagreement  between  the  NYTimes  and  NYPost as to
>whether there are 3 or 4  stripes,  but both agree that those are
>gold stripes Judge Rehnquist is wearing.
>
>Why  the  sudden  new  fashion  in  judicial   wear?Rehnquist
>reportedly  says he copied the gold-striped style "after seeing a
>Gilbert and Sullivan operetta." [Dunleavy. Op. cit.]
>
>Is Judge Rehnquist's explanation believable?   That  a  scholarly
>jurist,  the  Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court, approaches
>the somber and serious business of presiding over the impeachment
>trial of a U.S. President with  such a flippant attitude?  One of
>the most serious proceedings, if not THE most serious proceeding,
>over which Rehnquist is ever to preside, and he is  so  humorous,
>light-hearted  and cavalier that he copies his style of robe from
>a Gilbert & Sullivan operetta?
>
>CNNS does not believe  Rehnquist's  explanation  as  to why he is
>suddenly wearing gold-stripes on his judicial robe.
>
>And since Rehnquist's Gilbert & Sullivan story is implausible and
>therefore  a  cover  story, and hides whatever the REAL reason is
>for the sudden change in judicial  wardrobe, then what is it that
>Rehnquist's cover story is meant to hide?
>
>-+- A Rosetta Stone -+-
>
>Rehnquist's gold  stripes  are  a  Rosetta  Stone, unlocking many
>mysteries.
>
>If Rehnquist is  wearing  4  gold  stripes  on  each sleeve, then
>according to "Ru Mills" (pseudonym)  those  4  gold  stripes  are
>equivalent to the rank of Full Admiral in the U.S. Navy.
>
>A  researcher has published to a conspiracy research mailing list
>([EMAIL PROTECTED]) what he has  uncovered as to the possible
>significance of Rehnquist's gold striped-sleeves.  He writes,  in
>part, that
>
>  There  has  been some discussion among law researchers that
>  indicates  that  the  gold  fringe on the US flag indicates
>  martial law rule.  If you recall the old westerns when  the
>  US  cavalry  showed  up  they  all  had  gold braids on the
>  trumpet, flag, and on  the  shoulders.  We know for certain
>  that  they  were  under   martial   law,  for  the  federal
>  government was governing the territories directly  previous
>  to them entering as states.
>
>
>-+- The Military Connection -+-
>
>In Edward Gibbon's great book, "The Decline and Fall of the Roman
>Empire,"  the author repeatedly describes how, with the accession
>of each new Roman  Emperor,  a pre-requisite was, often, approval
>by  the  military.   Following  the  death  of  Constantine,  for
>example, "a loud and unanimous declaration was procured from  the
>troops  that  they  would  suffer  none  except the sons of their
>lamented monarch  to  reign  over  the  Roman  empire."  Military
>support was crucial; without it, the Caesars could not rule.   As
>the  Roman  Empire  decayed  over the centuries, military support
>became increasingly necessary and  support  from the Roman senate
>was no longer very important.
>
>Over   several   years,   Sherman   Skolnick,   chairman  of  the
>Chicago-based public interest research group, Citizens' Committee
>To Clean Up The Courts, has reported on attempts by U.S. military
>brass to  arrest  their  Commander-in-Chief,  Bill Clinton, under
>provisions  of  the  U.S.  Military  Code   of   Justice.Does
>Rehnquist's  gold striped-sleeve robe suggest that something like
>a military arrest or military trial has occurred or is occurring?
>Or  is the new-style judicial robe merely a symbolic message from
>the military, warning Clinton of their power?
>
>Contacted  by  CNNS,   Mr.   Skolnick   further  noted  that  the
>striped-sleeve style of judicial robe was *de  rigueur*  in  Nazi
>Germany.
>
>  -+- The Intelligence Connection -+-
>
>Heading the team of prosecutors conducting the impeachment  trial
>is  Congressman Henry Hyde.  Mr. Skolnick has repeatedly reported
>that Hyde  oversees  the  CIA  "Black  Budget," highly-classified
>accounts of how CIA spends its money.  Hyde  also,  according  to
>Skolnick,  is  a

Re: [CTRL] Reno finds no wrongdoing by Gore aide

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

Yes, and we're all terribly surprised at Ms. Reno's findings.  Who would
have guessed???

Barb

At 12:37 PM 1/15/99 -0600, LM wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>[01/14] Reno finds no wrongdoing by former top Gore aide
>WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Attorney General Janet Reno said Thursday that no
>further investigation was required of criminal allegations involving Peter
>Knight, a former top aide to Vice President Al Gore.
>
>Refusing to move toward an independent counsel probe, Reno ended a 30-day
>review into whether Knight, who managed the 1996 Clinton-Gore campaign,
>helped another Gore friend get favorable terms on a government lease and
>lied about it.
>
>The allegations involving Knight, who is expected to play a key role in
>Gore's 2000 presidential bid, were sent to the Justice Department by a
>congressional committee last month.
>
>Reno said in a statement that she concluded that she does not possess
>``specific and credible information'' that Knight, who is covered by the
>independent counsel law, ``may have violated federal criminal law.''
>
>She said there was ``no basis'' to begin a preliminary investigation into
>the allegations.
>
>The House Commerce Committee alleged that Knight helped Tennessee
>businessman and real estate developer Franklin Haney get the favorable terms
>on the lease and that in return Haney contributed $280,000 to the Democrats.
>
>The committee also alleged that Knight, a former chief of staff to Gore,
>lied to it about a $1 million fee Haney paid him.
>
>Reno twice late last year refused to seek an independent counsel to
>investigate Gore on campaign-related questions.
>
>In December, Reno decided against an independent counsel to investigate
>President Clinton and Gore over political ads financed by the Democratic
>Party during the 1996 election.
>
>In late November, Reno decided not to seek an independent counsel to
>investigate whether Gore lied to FBI agents about telephone fund-raising
>calls from his office during the 1996 presidential election campaign.
>
>Haney faces charges brought by a Justice Department task force investigating
>campaign finance abuses that he made nearly $80,000 in illegal contributions
>to Clinton's reelection effort and to two other candidates from Tennessee.
>
>The House Commerce Committee investigated financial and political ties
>between Haney and top Democratic officials, including Knight, over the lease
>of the Portals building in Washington, D.C. It is scheduled to become the
>Federal Communications Commission's new headquarters.
>
>The panel questioned whether $1 million payments to Knight and former
>Tennessee senator Jim Sasser were illegal contingency fees and whether they
>used their political influence to gain a government lease.
>
>Last Updated: 01/14/99 19:28 EST
>
>
>Copyright 1998 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication and
>redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior
>written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or
>delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon.
>
>
>http://legalnews.findlaw.com/news/19990114/
>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>nazi's need not apply.
>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>Archives Available at:
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>
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>
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>
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>
>Om

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
==

Re: [CTRL] NEA and AFT

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 06:06 AM 1/14/99 -0500, you wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>In a message dated 1/13/99 10:04:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
><< So, when the teacher unions run full-page ads to "save our schools",
> we know they really do mean their schools - not ours. >>
>
>Maybe you should think about the life teachers lived when they unionized.
>Mostly they were paid tiny salaries, and sent to live with members of the
>community.

BLW:  How is the above relevant to today's situation?   Has the union
improved the quality of education?

>Further, no school can teach everything.

BLW:  Successfully teaching academics would be satisfactory.

 >It's time those who want
>their children to have certain ideas and values to present those ideas and
>values at home, and if they want to be sure the kids are learning those ideas
>and values, it helps if the parents talk about the ideas and live up to those
>values.

BLW:  It's time that parents eliminate the necessity of daily countering
political indoctrination, religious dogma, selective history, anti-family
propaganda, and a plethora of brainwashing activities forced upon their
child at school in the name of "molding the whole person".

It's time that parents refuse to accept the role of scapegoat for teachers
who cannot teach.  (What other employment besides teaching and the "child
advocacy" industry provides one such a handy excuse for even the most
egregious lack of skill, intellect or ethics??)

It's time parents demand academic excellence - teachers who cannot pass a
competency exam should be summarily fired, better yet, not hired in the
first place.  Degrees in academic subjects should be a requirement to
teach, rather than two years of general ed and two to four additional years
in advanced flannel board.

Slamming teachers' unions is not the answer to the problems we have
>with American youth.  Prudy

Supporting a government sponsored monopoly and systematically usurping
parental rights has clearly not been the answer either.

Barb

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Larry Flynt on C-SPAN tonight.

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 07:52 AM 1/13/99 -0500, you wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>In a message dated 1/12/99 5:18:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>writes:
>
><< Sorry to hear that he wasn't given air time.  Mustn't upset the right-wing
> freaks by exposing their hypocrisy.  On the local TV news, it was stated that
> Bob "family values" Barr was accused with shacking up with his third wife
> while he was still married to his second wife.  There was also some he
> said/she said regarding the abortion.  Regarding another self righteous but
> unnamed Republican, it was said that he routinely visited the brothels along
> the Mexican border.  One hopes he doesn't have too many STDs.  Let's hope,
>the
> elites are not able to continue the news block. >>
>
>If I'm remembering correctly, Libby Dole's marriage to Bob was also pressaged
>by similar behavior.  No one seems to mind if you're a Republican.  Pudy

Except if you're Bob Packwood.  Remember the feminist Senators screaming
"apologies are not enough"!!?!

Barb
>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>nazi's need not apply.
>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>Archives Available at:
>http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
>
>http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>
>To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>
>To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>
>Om

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] CTRL List

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

>In a message dated 1/9/99 2:32:46 PM GMT-5:00 - United States of Ame,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> Hiya Kris,
>
> My vote would be for 2 lists: one for discussion and the second one to post
> articles.  A combined lists would mean way too many posts.  IMHO.
>
> Hilary
>  >>
>I concur with Hilary!
>Bill
>

I agree with Bill and Hilary(who'd have thought?)

Barb

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] Truth About Evil

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

>From the Wasington Post, Wednesday, January 6, 1999; Page A25
The Truth About Evil By Michael Kelly

Some months ago, I wrote a column in which I expressed revulsion at an
affectionate feature in the New York Times about a small band of elderly
communists and socialists who do good works among the downtrodden of Los
Angeles and, by the way, still revere Marx and Lenin. For this, Sam
Tanenhaus, author of an estimable and honest biography of Whittaker
Chambers, takes me politely to task in the current New York Review of Books.
My finger-pointing, says Tanenhaus, is emblematic of a regrettable "revival
of the familiar cold war Manichaeanism, whereby the entire burden of world
communism is laid crushingly upon every [Communist Party] member or
sympathizer."
This is a debate worth having, for it is central to the intellectual and
cultural history of this century. It has been, you have to admit, a pretty
Manichaean sort of century: good and evil in the form of democracy and
totalitarianism duking it out for global domination; concentration camps;
gulags; a couple of hundred million dead-that sort of thing. The good was
not absolute (we had Joe McCarthy and Roy Cohn on our side, alas), but the
evil was pretty close to pure.

American liberalism came to terms with one face of the century's evil-that
of the Nazis and their allies-immediately, honorably and unequivocally. The
fight to destroy the Nazi version of fascism was waged in such unabashedly
Manichaean terms that we called it The Good War (we were not being ironic
either; only Parisians and a few guys at Oxford knew about irony back then).
And organized American political liberalism-that is, the Democratic Party
and the labor movement-also came to terms soon enough with the communist
version, and firmly rejected it. But the treatment of communist fascism by
liberalism's intellectual and cultural establishments-as distinct from its
mainstream political bodies-has been profoundly different.
The intellectual and cultural elites have never come to terms with
communism as an evil on a par with Nazism and, more important, with their
role in supporting, or at least tolerating, that evil. This failure, which
is one of immense moral dimensions as well as rational, persists. (Witness
the 24-part CNN television series on the Cold War, a history massively
distorted by the light of moral equivalency that shines in Ted Turner's
dim, dim bulb of a mind.)
The failure persists and adapts because it is too large to come to terms
with. Coming to terms means not merely admitting the fundamental evil of
the communist system and its root philosophy (as opposed to admitting the
evil of one or another communist tyrant) but also admitting our own
sympathetic complicity. It means not merely reassessing the century's
political figures but its intellectual and cultural figures too. It means
reassessing us.

And this is a tremendously painful prospect, because it is a tremendously
personal one. There were never many Nazis or Nazi sympathizers in America
and very few political, cultural and intellectual figures of note among
them. But such is not the case with communism.
Twentieth-century political, cultural and intellectual history is thickly
peopled with respected and even revered figures-labor leaders, progressive
reformers, novelists, playwrights, artists, luminaries of the news and
entertainment businesses-who were deeply supportive of a system and
philosophy that we now know beyond doubt was every bit as monstrous as the
Nazi regime, was morally indistinguishable from the Nazi regime. And on the
more intimate level, when we talk about American communists or communist
sympathizers, we are talking about family.
So when we contemplate admitting the full profundity of communism's evil,
we are contemplating a radical reevaluation of everyone who traveled some
distance with that evil. We are talking about reevaluating Upton Sinclair
and John Steinbeck and Pablo Picasso and Ernest Hemingway and Charlie
Chaplin. And we are talking also about reevaluating Uncle Harry and Aunt
Edith and Grandpa and maybe even dear old Dad.
What further complicates matters is we know that Uncle Harry and Aunt Edith
are good people. They sided with the communists because they sincerely
believed in the promise of communism to address the wrongs of our own
society-its gross class inequities, its racial oppression, the rough
cruelties of capitalism.
But the fellow travelers were wrong, and in their wrong, they helped to
perpetuate a system that caused immense human suffering. To say this is not
to gainsay that most Communist Party members and sympathizers were
motivated by the desire to make a better world, nor is it to lay the whole
burden of communism's crimes on their shoulders.
It is simply to say this: At some point it becomes a seriously immoral act
to refuse to acknowledge the truth. At some point, you have to ask whether
it is morally acceptable to regard those who yet refuse to come t

Re: [CTRL] Hawk

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 01:44 PM 1/8/99 -0600, Hugh wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>Hawk has informed me that he was removed from the list.
>I would like the listowner to reconsider his or her decision.
>All of us have been guilty of intemperate remarks from time to time on
>this list. (myself included.) I'm on the opposite end of the political
>spectrum from the dread bird, and I didn't find his posts that offensive.
>I've read some blatantly anti-semitic stuff that was far more offensive,
>in my opinion, that his posts..
>
>Best wishes,
>William
>

Hugh, although I often disagree with your views, I respect your
scholarship, civility, lack of insecurity, and tolerance.  Your ability
to engage in a lively exchange without resorting to the arrogant, ill-mannered
and unlearned tactics of the core group that is allowed to control this
list is refreshing.  You are a gentleman.

I agree that Hawk should be allowed to stay, as should anyone else who is
inclined.   It really shouldn't matter if some persons find any number of
posts offensive - isn't that "diversity"?   Theory is obviously more
palatable than the real deal for some persons.

Regards,

Barb

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Stampeding Bison

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 01:44 PM 1/8/99 -0600, you wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>Hawk has informed me that he was removed from the list.
>I would like the listowner to reconsider his or her decision.
>All of us have been guilty of intemperate remarks from time to time on
>this list. (myself included.) I'm on the opposite end of the political
>spectrum from the dread bird, and I didn't find his posts that offensive.
>I've read some blatantly anti-semitic stuff that was far more offensive,
>in my opinion, that his posts..
>
>Best wishes,
>William
>

Hugh, although I often disagree with your views, I respect your
scholarship, civility, lack of insecurity, and tolerance.  Your ability to
engage in a lively exchange without resorting to the arrogant, ill-mannered
and unlearned tactics of the core group that is allowed to control this
list is refreshing.  You are a gentleman.

I agree that Hawk should be allowed to stay, as should anyone else who is
inclined.   It really shouldn't matter if some persons find any number of
posts offensive - isn't that "diversity"?   Theory is obviously more
palatable than the real deal for some persons.

Regards,

Barb

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] THE NEA'S GRAB-BAG OF ISSUES

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 10:56 AM 1/6/99 -0800, you wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>Hawk wrote:
>>
>>  -Caveat Lector-
>>
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> >  -Caveat Lector-
>> >
>> > What's wrong with adopting a national energy policy?
>> >
>> > I think it's a sane thing to do, especially since the end of the
world's oil
>> > supply is looming on the millennial horizon.
>>
>> What a crock!  The world is awash with oil!  Seems like some folks once
said the
>> same thing about the demise of the world's whale-oil supply.  Central
controls
>> isn't the answer... FREEDOM to get rich by taking big chances is the
answer, just
>> as it was then.
>>
>> Hawk
>
>Freedom! I knew it all along. The only freedom you are interested in
>is
>the freedom to make money any way you can.
>
>You are a truly despicable character. Luckily you can be easily dealt
>with.
>I am working (with others on a different list) on a plan to establish
>a cap
>on wealth accumulation by individuals. The intent is to keep guys like
>you
>spinning your wheels without actually becoming dangerous through the
>accumulation of vast wealth.
>
>The one thing that all the manipulators of all modern societies have
>in common
>is owning, or working for someone who owns vast wealth. They stand in
>the way
>of human progress, health, and happiness. They have been the causes of
>war and
>poverty, and slavery all the way back to the dawn of agriculture.
>
>The rich elites are greedy, incompetent, and generally stupid when it
>comes to
>social management. They can't manage anything well for long without
>the threat
>of force. Their economic system is collapsing all around them and new
>organic
>systems will grow in their place. Capitalism will be strictly
>controlled almost
>everywhere. Free trade is being dismantled as we speak. All this
>because of
>guys like you. You were born in the wrong era.
>
>Just thought you would like to know.
>
>Have a nice day.
>
>Joshua2

And in your socialist/communist utopia there will be no elite?

Barb
>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>nazi's need not apply.
>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>Archives Available at:
>http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
>
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>
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>Om
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Smiley: Criminalizing Homelessness

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 08:50 AM 1/6/99 -0500, you wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>Smiley:
>
>>What better scapegoat for society's ills than the defenseless.
>
>Of course, that's what Republicans and Libertarians do: they gain their
>popularity, as fascists always have, by stepping on the ones who cannot
>defend themselves. By passing the "blame buck" onto the defenseless, they
>figure they wont have to catch the hell they deserve for being scum!
>
>>This shit goes on all over the country.
>
>Until some homeless person with a little brains (probably a veteran)
>decides to start organizing a guerilla army.
>
>Edward   ><>

If the above-mentioned veteran possesses the energy and inclination to
organize a guerilla army, one wonders why not the wherewithal to obtain
shelter?


Barb

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Read this post. It is about senseless and cruel men andhelpless vic

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 01:34 PM 1/5/99 -0800, you wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:
>>Your post is exceedingly and unnecessarily cruel to those persons whose
>>feelings of moral superiority necessitate their bearing a burden of guilt
>>and forever paying penance for the actions of distant ancestors (real or
>>imagined).  It is unwise, as well as nonproductive, to interject factual
>>information into a religious conversation.
>>
>>Barb
>
>
>glad to see you back on your medication barb. the putrifaction of your
>acidic parambulations are almost legible. give my best to the m.h. workers
>at the home and a hearty "well done".
>
>grinnin'
>
>chris

Must we repeat Lesson VI - Projections/Transferance???  :-)

Barb
>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>nazi's need not apply.
>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>Archives Available at:
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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Re: [CTRL] Read this post. It is about senseless and cruel men andhelpless vic

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 03:15 PM 1/5/99 -0500, Howard Davis wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>E Mael wrote:
>>
>
>> it takes a white man to make a wasteland
>>
>   Well, I don't think that is completely accurate, even if perhaps it
>is true that "white men" are the masters of this ability and could, in
>fact, turn the whole earth into a waste land. However, I believe that
>men of other ethnicity have been able to do this (although to a limited
>extent). For instance, Lebenon was once known for its forests. I
>understand that has greatly changed. Many other areas of the earth have
>also been depleted. I believe this was the case in many parts of the
>"New World" even before the arrival of the "white man". So, I would not
>wish to appear racist by saying "white men" are the only ones who have
>been able to demonstrate this ability.
>
>best wishes, Howard Davis

Your post is exceedingly and unnecessarily cruel to those persons whose
feelings of moral superiority necessitate their bearing a burden of guilt
and forever paying penance for the actions of distant ancestors (real or
imagined).  It is unwise, as well as nonproductive, to interject factual
information into a religious conversation.

Barb

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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Re: [CTRL] A Kinder, Gentler Lynch Mob

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

What a romantic you are, Hugh!  What's that line of M. Johnson's about the
only right is might??

Barb

At 11:18 AM 12/22/98 -0600, Hugh  wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>As far as "native populations" go, since I'm Native American, I find it
>odd that European Americans assume that we needed YOU to give us our
>rights to begin with.  How glorious  The land was initially ours...we
>had our own religion...our own concepts of political and property
>rights...(read of the Iroquois Confederacy for its influence on the
>Constitution you esteem).
>
>On Fri, 18 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>>  -Caveat Lector-
>>
>> In a message dated 98-12-18 06:21:15 EST, you write:
>>
>> << It WAS founded on liberty, albeit a flawed one...
>>
>>  But what other country in 1776 (or 1783) gave social and political
>>  liberty to blacks, women, or native populations?
>>
>>  At least the founding fathers gave us a document whereby we could
>>  peacefully and legally alter the government via the amendment process, so
>>  that we COULD at a later date include these populations in the
>>  electorate...
>>
>>  And they gave us a document that spells out the peaceful and legal
>>  process whereby the electorate (thru their elected representatives) are
>>  able to remove officials in public office who are guilty of misconduct in
>>  office, including the President... >>
>>
>>  Very well stated June.  The Constitution is not cast in iron, but is
>> flexible to change as conditions change.  And, it has been changed... 27
>> times!
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bob Stokes
>>
>> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>> ==
>> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
>> screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid
matters
>> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
>> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
effects
>> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
>> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>> nazi's need not apply.
>>
>> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>>
>> 
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>> Om
>>
>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>nazi's need not apply.
>

>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>
>To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>Om
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Re: [CTRL] The impeachment of President Clinton

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 10:27 AM 12/20/98 -0500, June wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>On Sun, 20 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Well said, but this Jerry Harp won't understand, neither will Prudy or
>>the other Clintonites.  He could nuke Ohmaha and they would still support
him,
>
>Or perhaps OKC...
>
>Ooops!  Forgot...already done...
>
>
>June


TOUCHDOWN!!

Barb



>|
>  -=*=-
>(| (}   |
> |/||\{\
> | ||  ___o  /|/_
>   jgs   | ||  X--X   |__\
>
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>ASCII Art Gallery
>http://www.ascii-art.com
>*---*
>revcoal AT connix DOT com
>*---*
> It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
> address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
> $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
> email.  Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these
> terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
> unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
> email.
>**
>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
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>screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>nazi's need not apply.
>
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>
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==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
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Re: [CTRL] Honour Among ...

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 10:02 PM 12/19/98 -0500, Jerry Harp wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-

>
>Then, shazam, it was no longer a matter of sex or about lying.  It was a
>matter of lying under oath about sex!  Phew!  (see Barb Witts last post if
you
>doubt that this is the new party line.

For the sake of clarification, please note that my opinion, albeit shared
by many, is neither new, nor the line of any party.  BTW, watch that
stereotyping!   The claim that every nonmember of Cult Clinton is by
default a Republican is as silly as the notion that everyone who values
life is a fanatical, right wing fundamentalist.

Regards,

Barb
>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>nazi's need not apply.
>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>
>To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>
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>Om
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] Honour Among ...

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 01:16 PM 12/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>In a message dated 12/18/98 2:55:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>>
>> As far as Livingston, or any of the other philanderers/crooks in office,
>they
>> too can screw their brains out, they just cannot lie about it beforea trial
>> court and a grand jury.
>>
>
>In any ethics class or discussion, your statement would be an excellent
>example of narrow legalism taking the place of objective reality.

And in any conversation outside academia among persons utilizing common
sense, your statement would be an excellent example of pseudo
intellectualism, arrogantly hurled to facilitate your attempt to change the
subject, ignore the facts and promote a particular ideology.I do
appreciate the feedback, it's just so predictable!

Try using your "narrow legalism vs. objective reality" outside a classroom,
say in a courtroom, and see how far it gets you.

Regards,

Barb
>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>nazi's need not apply.
>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>
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>Om
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] Honour Among ...

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 06:52 AM 12/18/98 -0600, Linda Minor wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-

>
>Anyone who refuses to see that this was a set up is no different than the
>people who followed Hitler blindly into the holocaust.

O.k., assuming, arguendo, that your speculation is correct,  I would still
prefer someone in the White House who is not so easily manipulated, or at
least more in control of himself than my dog.  This is your defense - that
Clinton is not responsible for his own actions?

>Do some research and use your brain.

Why are certain persons on this list so friggin arrogant?  Because someone
disagrees with you does not mean that they aren't using their brain.  Could
your reference to tunnel vision simply be a projection of your own
behavior???   In light of your education, the fawning veneration that you
display for a political figure is inconceivable.
>

>That's what I like about your posts, William.  They show you think and ask
>questions.

Translation:  You agree with my view of St. Clinton.

Stripped of the verbiage, these defenses have been repeatedly propounded by
the Clintonistas:

(a) Clinton's lies were only about sex - one must be a prude to object;
(b) Everyone engages in extra-marital affairs;
(c) Republicans are criminals but don't get caught;
(d) The vast right wing conspiracy is out to get Clinton; and the newest
and most profound
(e) Monica made him do it.

You'll have to do much better than the above to convince anyone who has not
worshipped at Clinton's altar.

Barb

>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>nazi's need not apply.
>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>
>To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>Om
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] Honour Among ...

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 12:13 AM 12/18/98 -0500, you wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>The private lives of our reps ought to remain as such.
>
>Papers like Roll Call and dirt mags like Hustler, both allegedly involved
in the
>Livingston expose, apparently have nothing better to do but go on WH tips and
>reveal crap no one out here really cares about. Yuck!
>
>Tonite, Drudge reports that the WH knew about the Livingston affairs.
Three words,
>folks: 900 FBI files.
>
>Does anyone really care whether a guy, who's been married for over 30
years, with
>a couple kids, strays? Naw, I sure don't. And I would say the same thing
if he was
>a Dem!
>
>Now before ya'll jump all over this and say it's a double standard b/c
we're after
>BC for his affairs, hold your horses.
>
>Livingston didn't
>  ->lie about it to a federal grand jury;
>  >obstruct justice b/c of those affair(s);
>  >consciously have others lie for him;
>  >and so forth.
>
>Livingston did none of that. And Livingston ain't the POTUS either. The
POTUS is
>held to a higher standard. Higher than anyone else. And he knows it. We
know. And
>the House knows it. That's why BC ought to be impeached tomorrow.


Perfectly stated!

Barb

>
>Sno0wl wrote:
>
>>  -Caveat Lector-
>>
>> On 17 Dec 98 , Alamaine wrote:
>>
>> >  -Caveat Lector-
>> >
>> > >From http://www.rollcall.com
>> >
>> > Livingston Confesses Affairs
>> >
>> > By Jim VandeHei
>> >
>> > House Speaker Bob Livingston (R-La.) tonight plans to disclose to the
>> > Republican Conference that he has had sexual affairs in his past and will
>> > offer to resign his post, according to GOP sources.
>>
>> And I say that before they hold Clinton over the spit, let every
>> single on of those legislators who has had an extramarital affair
>> step downand let's see who's left.
>>
>> I think the scene might look like one of those lottery commercials.
>> You know--the one where everyone races out of the concert hall.
>>
>> sno0wl
>
>->snip>
>Regards,
>-A
>http://www.erols.com/mack97
>"The sharpest tool in the shed." -- anonymous
>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>nazi's need not apply.
>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>
>To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>Om
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] Perjury

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

Are you off your meds again, Chris??

Barb

At 04:18 PM 12/17/98 -0800, you wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:
>>Perhaps *you* should take your own advice.
>
>
>i will take my own advice. you seem to be the penultimate narcissist, no
>one can touch you. it would be adding hominem to suggest that the real red
>herring is the one in your underpants so i won't, much.
>
>you will let me know if you have any more advice for me, won't you?
>
>hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
>
>chris
>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>nazi's need not apply.
>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>
>To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>Om
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] Honour Among ...

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-


At 10:00 PM 12/17/98 +, you wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>On 17 Dec 98 , Alamaine wrote:
>
>>  -Caveat Lector-
>>
>> >From
http://www.rollcall.com
>>
>> Livingston Confesses Affairs
>>
>> By Jim VandeHei
>>
>> House Speaker Bob Livingston (R-La.) tonight plans to disclose
to the
>> Republican Conference that he has had sexual affairs in his past
and will
>> offer to resign his post, according to GOP sources.
>
>And I say that before they hold Clinton over the spit, let 
every
>single on of those legislators who has had an extramarital
affair
>step downand let's see who's left.
>
>I think the scene might look like one of those lottery
commercials.
>You know--the one where everyone races out of the concert hall.
>
>
>sno0wl

No intellectually honest person believes that Clinton's plight is simply
due to philandering.   As has been stated innumerable
times, no one, conservative, liberal or in between cares if Clinton
engages in extramarital sex an infinite number of times with countless
persons.   

Your attitude regarding Clinton - blind faith, unthinking
loyalty, absurd denial in the face of facts admitted by Clinton himself
-  is quintessential fundamentalist/cult thinking.  Does
endorsing Clinton's politics and embracing his political vision really
require that you defend EVERYTHING he does, no matter how
illegal???  

As far as Livingston, or any of the other philanderers/crooks in office,
they too can screw their brains out, they just cannot lie about it before
a trial court and a grand jury. 

The "he did it too!" argument is reminiscent of grade school
where young children attempt to avoid punishment by deflecting the
attention to someone else (i.e., snitching).  Or even junior high
when "everyone does it!" is the preferred rationale for base
behavior.  

Barb
>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid
matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said,
CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial
and
>nazi's need not apply.
>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>
>To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send
email:
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>Om
> 

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
ÝÝÝCTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] Skolnick: Various Dangers To Clinton and Gore

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 05:21 PM 12/17/98 -0500, Harp wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>
>This is pure bunk.  We are not some banana republic.

Maybe you should inform your buddy Clinton.
>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>nazi's need not apply.
>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>
>To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>
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>Om
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om

Re: [CTRL] !!! NEWS FLASH !!!

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 01:03 PM 12/17/98 -0500, you wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>In a message dated 12/16/98 9:23:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>writes:
>
>> >
>>  >  They don't have to strike today, tomorrow or next month.
>>  >  The people have no where go . EXCEPT TO PUT UP A
>>  >  SMOKE SCREEN to cover up for a criminal politician, there
>>  >  is no reason why this must be done today,
>>  >
>
>The UNSCOM report had just come out stating that there is every sign that
>Saddam is going ahead with his WMD program.  In the meantime, Saddam had shut
>the UNSCOM down so surveillance was no longer taking place.  Since Iraq could
>develop a major capability in just a few months, Clinton had to act fast.
>Since launching an attack during Ramadan would be awkward, Wednesday was a
>good choice.
>
>I trust you are not like Trent "draft dodger" Lott who complained a short
>while back that Clinton missed an opportunity to bomb Iraq.  Now, of course,
>he is in a rage over the bombing.  Could it be that Lott is so unprincipled
>that his stance merely depends upon what political wind seems convenient?
>Incidentally, Lott was full of praise for the racist group that Bob "family
>values" Barr recently keynoted for.
>
>I do agree that innocent people will be injured and killed in addition to
>their property destroyed and they will be indirectly harmed by destruction of
>utilities.  That is why people like Lugar, Gingrich, and Lott should not
be so
>eager for war as a way to prove their manhood, i.e. show machismo by sending
>other to die.  Strange how on the right, with people like Safire who have
been
>screaming for the US to bomb Iraq, there are now only pacifists.
>
>Jerry harp

--
Apparently, some persons disagree...

Barb

Pentagon officials dispute timing

The Washington Times
12/17/98 Rowan Scarborough


The White House notified the Joint Chiefs of Staff on Sunday that President
Clinton would order air strikes this week, 48 hours before he saw a United
Nations report declaring Iraq in noncompliance with weapons inspectors, it was
learned from authoritative sources last night.

Several Pentagon officials have questioned Mr. Clinton's timing to order
strikes on the eve of the House impeachment debate.

Pentagon sources said National Security Council aides told the Joint Chiefs to
quickly update a bombing plan that was shelved in mid-November and were told
that a strike would be ordered in a matter of days.

Israeli spokesman Aviv Bushinsky said yesterday in Jerusalem that President
Clinton discussed preparations for an attack with Israeli Prime Minister
Benjamin Netanyahu just minutes before Mr. Clinton flew home from Israel's
Ben-Gurion Airport on Tuesday, ending a three-day peace mission.

White House spokesman Joe Lockhart insisted that Mr. Clinton made the strike
decision yesterday based on the U.N. finding of noncompliance.

Nevertheless, a senior congressional source, who asked not to be named, said
senior Pentagon officers expressed great skepticism to him about the raids.
This source said that the White House eagerness to launch air strikes grew

with intensity as a parade of centrist Republicans announced they would vote
to impeach the president, in a vote originally scheduled for today.

"I have had senior flag and general officers question the timing," the
congressional source said. "I have had senior military officers laughing. I
hate to say that. ... Why now? He hasn't built a coalition. He hasn't done
anything. Why this timing?"

Reporters and others traveling with the president in the Middle East remarked
during last weekend that the president seemed uncharacteristically unconcerned
about events unfolding in Washington, and several White House aides expressed
puzzlement that the president seemed to have lost his "fighting spirit." Mrs.
Clinton was noticeably cool to the president as their visit there continued
and drew away from him on several public occasions.

The Joint Chiefs were described as strongly supporting yesterday's attack.
They wanted to launch missiles in mid-November, after Saddam Hussein evicted
inspectors. The president called off the attack just minutes before "H hour"
after Saddam promised to cooperate with inspectors.

Defense Secretary William S. Cohen yesterday strongly disputed charges the
attack is linked to impeachment.

"The only factor, from my point of view ... or for anyone else's point of
view, was what is the national security interests of the United States," Mr.
Cohen said. "We are convinced. We have absolutely no doubt this is the right
decision."

Mr. Cohen also said war planners preferred not to attack during Ramadan, the
monthlong Islamic observance beginning this weekend.

This is the second time military officers and experts have questioned whether
Mr. Clinton timed U.S. military action to take attention away from the Monica
Lewinsky scandal.

In 

Re: [CTRL] [Re: [CTRL] [Re: [CTRL] The Holocaust]]

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 09:17 PM 12/14/98 -0500, you wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Ignorance and provocation - the similarities of events now and '20s & '30s
>pre
>> WWII is eerie.
>>
>> Om
>> K
>>
>> In a message dated 12/14/98 10:07:27 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> >Yes, Kris, I think he *does* understand very well. He's trying to bait us,
>to
>> >draw us into the kind of bottomless quagmire the Nazi wannabes and
Identity
>> >types nearly pulled the list into earlier this year. I think he is fully
>> aware
>> >that he's working for the Oligarchy. What he may have forgotten, of
course,
>> is
>> >that the Oligarchy doesn't give a fart in a windstorm for its servants...
>> >
>Amen. To drive home the similarities between right now and the years just
>before the rise of Hitler, check out the *Diaries* of Count Harry Kessler, a
>diplomat/philanthropist/left-of-center activist who documented some amazing
>insights into the immensely paradoxical everyday life of Germany during that
>time. As Thomas Jefferson remarked in a slightly different context, "I
tremble
>for my country when I reflect that God is just."
>
>Bob
>
Anyone read The Ominous Parallels by Peikoff?

Barb
>=
>Robert F. Tatman
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Remove "nospam" from the address to reply.
>
>NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is
distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in
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>
>POSTING THIS MESSAGE TO THE INTERNET DOES NOT IMPLY PERMISSION TO SEND
UNSOLICITED COMMERCIAL E-MAIL (SPAM) TO THIS OR ANY OTHER INTERNET ADDRESS.
RECEIPT OF SPAM WILL RESULT IN IMMEDIATE NOTIFICATION OF THE SENDER'S ISP.
>
>
>More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at
http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail
>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>nazi's need not apply.
>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>
>To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
>SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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>
>Om
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] Fw: [FAIR-L] ACTION ALERT: ABC Airs Abu-Jamal Segment

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

After reading material from one side of an issue, how can either one of you
comment on a program that you apparently didn't watch, and a case about
which you state you are unfamiliar  Just curious.

Barb

At 04:05 AM 12/12/98 -0600, you wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>Gee ... I don't know ... sounds like the good old days, back in the USSR,
>when the news got broadcast once flavoured and spiced by the government or
>by those who knew which issues should be presented and how ...
>
>
>A<>E<>R
>
>The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes
>but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust
>
>--
>: From: Gerald Harp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>: Subject: Re: [CTRL] Fw: [FAIR-L] ACTION ALERT: ABC Airs Abu-Jamal Segment
>: Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 2:31 PM
>:
>:  -Caveat Lector-
>:
>: In a message dated 12/11/98 11:29:41 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>:
>: >
>: >  : FAIR ACTION ALERT: ABC Airs Abu-Jamal Segment;
>: >  : Sam Donaldson calls for inmate's execution, calls supporters
>ignorant
>: >  :
>:
>: I am not familiar with the details of the referenced criminal case but i
>: wonder what has happened to the news media.  I live in the suburbs of
>: Monicaland and it is now quite common on our local all news radio station
>to
>: listen to station reporters earnestly interviewing Sam and Cokie for
>their
>: views on just about everything - Clinton's love life, why the SOB
>deserves
>: impeachment, OJ, the economy, whatever.  Don't Sam and Cokie know that
>they
>: are supposed to pretend to a certain hauteur that lifts them above mixing
>: editorializing with "reporting" the news?
>:
>: Jerry Harp
>:
>: DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>: ==
>: CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
>propagandic
>: screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid
>matters
>: and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
>outright
>: frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
>effects
>: spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>: gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
>readers;
>: be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>: nazi's need not apply.
>:
>: Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>:
>: 
>: To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>: Om
>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>nazi's need not apply.

>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>
>To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>
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>
>Om
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] Lawyers Unconstitutional Control of the Nation

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

At 11:41 PM 12/11/98 -0600, Linda Minor wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>---snip
---
>There was a
>time when a person could learn the law simply by working as an apprentice to
>a practicing attorney to find out how to research judicial precedents and
>making a cogent argument before a judge and jury about equity and fairness,
>coupled with legal consistency.  Not so any more.

Washington State has an apprenticeship program and I believe there are at
least one or two other states which provide alternatives routes to the bar.

Barb
>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>nazi's need not apply.
>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>
>To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>
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>
>Om
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Re: [CTRL] Long-Neck Women -So This Isn't A Myth??

[Barb Witt]

 -Caveat Lector-

But if all the lessor beings on the list upgraded, wouldn't that diminish
the openings for your cheap shots??

Barb

At 07:00 AM 12/7/98 -0500, you wrote:
> -Caveat Lector-
>
>On Sun, 6 Dec 1998 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>The only other time I heard of these women was in The Sun, a cheap
supermarket
>>tabloid.  I thought that their staff had fabricated this story.
>>
>>So I guess these women really do exist!
>
>If you upgraded your reading to something like National Geographic, you'd
>have also known that this tribe in fact exists
>
>
>June
>__
>  .::o:.
> .::::o:.
> :o:__:::
> `:}_>()<_{:'
>   `'//\\'`
>/'  '\
>   jgs
>
>*---*
>revcoal AT connix DOT com
>*---*
> It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email
> address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227.  I assess a fee of
> $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial
> email.  Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these
> terms.  My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
> unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
> email.
>**
>
>DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
>==
>CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
>screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
>and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
>frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
>spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
>gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
>be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
>nazi's need not apply.
>
>Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
>
>To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>
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>
>Om
>

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


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Om