Re: [CTRL] The Secret GOP War On Tom Daschle
-Caveat Lector- It was either Bush or Regan. > -- > From: Prudence L. Kuhn > Reply To: Conspiracy Theory Research List > Sent: Friday, July 6, 2001 11:21 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [CTRL] The Secret GOP War On Tom Daschle > > -Caveat Lector- > > In a message dated 07/06/2001 1:48:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > << > You mean like Al Gore sliming Michael Dukakis with the Willie Horton ads > >> > > Wasn't that George Bush's campaign? Prudy > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > == > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing > propagandic > screeds are unwelcomed. Substance--not soap-boxin---please! These are > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theor-'--with its many half-truths, mis- > directions and outright fra-ds--is used politically by different groups > with > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and > thought. > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > > Archives Available at: > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl > > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Om > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] FDR- Pearl Harbor and the Holocaust
-Caveat Lector- > censorship - Please provide a reference of where you have been personally > censored by the government. > > loss of jobs - If you are referring to unemployment, well I'm sure things > were much better back in the depression before Roosevelt came along. > Employment loss/gains are natural occurrences of any nation's economic > lifecycle. If you are referring to the movement of manufacturing jobs to > other nations for cheaper labor that is also an unfortunate natural > occurrence. A labor intensive business will gravitate to where it is > cheapest to run that business. > withholding of university degrees - once again, please provide a reference where this has occurred (in relation to our government withholding a degree) intimidation - what kind, of who, against what? acts of terrorism - are you referring to acts of terrorism such as Oklahoma City or some other situation? Acts of terrorism have been around since the development of the nation state. There have been and always will be small groups of people who feel that violence is the only measure to get their point across. Their anger may be justified but their actions are not. Terrorism is not something explicit to the end of the twentieth century. deportation - of whom and for what reason? > are not "consequences" suffered by people in America for raising questions > about "historical inaccuracies"? - many people on this list on a daily > basis make inaccurate and accurate comments in regards to "conspiracies" > and America's history. Many others routinely make inflammatory remarks > about recent and current standing government officials to include the > President. None, to my knowledge have lost their job, had a degree > withheld, been intimidated, have had an act of terrorism performed against > or deported because of their comments. > > You are uninformed, naive, or probably both I am neither. I have no illusions about our government, its relationship with corporate America and its ability to use every means possible to protect America's economic interest. Does the government always do what's in the best interest of the American people? No. There are too many factors involved in each decision for each decision to benefit all the American people and at time some decisions benefit none. But having traveled to and seen the high taxes and unemployment rates in Europe, the abject poverty and corruption in Africa and the unbelievable political corruption in South America I would say that you my friend have it much better than most people in the world. I'll be the first to admit that America is not perfect, we don't always wear the mantle of being the world's only superpower well but I also think the world is a much better place than it would have been without America's existence. > -- > From: Damian B. Cooper > Reply To: Conspiracy Theory Research List > Sent: Friday, July 6, 2001 1:35 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [CTRL] FDR- Pearl Harbor and the Holocaust > > -Caveat Lector- > > At 08:42 AM 7/5/01 -0400, Steve Suranie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > But I > >rather like this world much more, a place where you and others like you > can > >sift through America's past and loosely link some historical inaccuracies > to > >find a conspiracy where there is none and not suffer any consequences. > > > >Steve > > You're suggesting that censorship, loss of jobs, withholding of university > degrees, > threats, intimidation, acts of terrorism, deportation and similar measures > are not > "consequences" suffered by people in America for raising questions about > "historical inaccuracies"? > > You are uninformed, naive, or probably both. > > DBC > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > == > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing > propagandic > screeds are unwelcomed. Substance--not soap-boxin---please! These are > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theor-'--with its many half-truths, mis- > directions and outright fra-ds--is used politically by different groups > with > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and > thought. > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > > Archives Available at: > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html > http://peach.ea
Re: [CTRL] (Fwd) LP RELEASE: First Amendment Survey
-Caveat Lector- First amendment issues are always touchy and there is always the question of what exactly should be considered free speech. A good example is a recent case in Boston where a 10 year old boy was brutally beaten and raped by two pedophiles. When the police arrested the two men and searched their apartment they found a wealth of pedophile literature including a magazine published by NAMBLA - North American Man Boy Love Association. One of the articles in the magazine described various methods on how to lure young boys into apartments or other structures and apparently, from their confessions, these two men used the methods described in the article to lure their victim into their apartment. The prosecutors of the case went forward and pressed charges against NAMBLA as co-conspirators in the child's murder. Immediately the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) rushed to NAMBLA's defense, claiming they had done nothing wrong but exercised their first amendment right. Now, personally I feel that if you publish an article targeted to pedophiles, on how to commit pedophiliac acts, in a pedophiliac magazine you stand as guilty as those committing the act. There's a big difference from writing "I think the age of consent should be lowered to 10 years old" and "Here's how to lure a young boy into your home for sexual intercourse. > -- > From: kl > Reply To: Conspiracy Theory Research List > Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2001 1:06 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [CTRL] (Fwd) LP RELEASE: First Amendment Survey > > -Caveat Lector- > > --- Forwarded message follows --- > > Chilling new survey: Americans want > more government censorship of media > > WASHINGTON, DC -- The First Amendment is in "intensive care," > Libertarians said today, after a new survey found that 46% of Americans > think the press has "too much freedom" and a whopping 71% say the > government needs to hold the media in check. > > "The First Amendment is in trouble," said Steve Dasbach, Libertarian > Party national director. "If this survey is accurate, then the First > Amendment is in intensive care and may be dying -- not of simple > indifference, but because of criminal negligence by the American > people." > > This past week, the New York-based First Amendment Center revealed > that a > startling number of Americans are willing or eager to give the government > more control over speech and the press. Of the 1,102 adults randomly > surveyed by telephone across the nation: > > * 46% said the press in America has "too much freedom to do what it > wants." By contrast, only 36% think there is "too much government > censorship." > > * 71% think it is somewhat or very important for the government "to > hold the media in check." > > * 39% agree "the First Amendment goes too far in the rights it > guarantees." That's up dramatically from just 22% who held that opinion > last year. > > * 64% disagreed that "people should be allowed to say things in public > that > might be offensive to racial groups," with 36% saying there should be > laws > against such speech. > > For a nation founded on the concept of "inalienable rights" and a > fierce devotion to free speech, this survey is disturbing, said > Dasbach. > > "Americans don't seem to understand that free speech is not something > you > can share with the government," he said. "Either the people have free > speech -- and are willing to fervently defend it against all encroachments > -- or else politicians have the power to control what we hear, see, and > read. There is no middle ground." > > Unfortunately, too many Americans appear willing to sacrifice their > freedoms to protect themselves against speech they find offensive, said > Dasbach. > > "Some people appear willing to relinquish free speech because they are > offended by vulgar music, obscene photographs on the Internet, violent > movies, or lewd dialogue on television," he said. "But that's making a > deal > with the devil. > > "If you give away your rights, politicians will eagerly take them. And > once > they have that power, politicians won't stop at simply censoring what you > find offensive. Eventually, politicians will go after speech that you find > indispensable. But by then, it will be too late." > > What's the solution? Americans need to renew their traditional > commitment to free speech, said Dasbach. > > "Don't let the history books record that this was the generation that gave > away its First Amendment rights," he said. "Remember: There's only > one > thing more tragic than a government seizing the rights of its citizens -- > and that's citizens willingly forfeiting their rights because they are too > apathetic, indifferent, or lazy to keep them. > > "And there's only one thing more tragic than letting power-hungry > politicians murder the First Amendment -- and that's allowing it to die of > criminal neglect." > > --- End of forwarded message --- > > -- > Best w
Re: [CTRL] FDR- Pearl Harbor and the Holocaust
-Caveat Lector- Of course Washington knew in 1942...It was no "secret" at the time. American, Canadian and British newspapers in the early 1940s published details of the Nazi extermination process. Prime Minister Churchill often made speeches against the crimes (back then, the term "Holocaust" was not used.) Around 1943, the United States was a co-signer of a joint Allied proclamation denouncing Nazi extermination of European Jews. Yet, still, every few years US newspapers still keep coming out with breathless "news" about this fact that was widely known and publicized during the Second World War. And what exactly would have been Rooservelt's options? Bear in mind that prior to 1941 America was following an isolationist policy and we had a (comparatively) small military. Following the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and subsequently through the first half of 1942 we were not winning the war but barely staying afloat as the Japanese marched their way through the South Pacific and we prepared to our military for the two front war, while Europe, for the most part, was conquered by Hitler and Fascism. Most of the concentration camps were in Germany and Poland. The accepted policy (without the benefit of sixty years of hindsight mixed in with some conspirational paranoia) was that the priority was the defeat of Nazism, which in turn would also lead to the saving of the Jews. And the best way to defeat Nazism was to remove their forces from Northern Africa opening the Mediterranean and allowing for an invasion of Southern Europe. At the same time the planning and build up of forces was begun for a cross channel invasion, which would develop a second European front. Any suggestion that bombing concentration camps would have saved Jews is absurd. Air bombardments at the time were a matter of quantity over quality. Since the bombers had to fly at 10,000-30,000 feet to avoid anti-aircraft fire and enemy air patrols their accuracy was very limited. To ensure that the target would be hit they used an overabundance of ordnance. Kind of like killing a fly with a shotgun. Even then, it was not a full proof method. Bombing concentration camps would have only killed the Jewish inmates of the camps (the guards would have had adequate bomb shelters) and at the best results would have had the survivors still interred, in the worst, executed in retaliation. Sending in any kind of land force was impossible due to the camps geographical location and the state and position of allied armies. An airborne/glider rescue would also have been impossible. The force would have had to been quite large to ensure its own security, half of the low and slow flying transport planes would never had made it through Nazi air defenses. If the force landed any where near their objective and intact they would then have had to conduct a fighting rescue (with at best three or four days supply of food and ammo), then move more than a 1000 miles overland, surrounded by hostile and better equipped forces with thousands of emaciated and weak internees. That is not to say that America did not have an anti-Semitic attitude (as did most of the world) back in the forties. Your anger and sense of injustice should be directed to Cordell Hull, head of the US State Department at the time. State was highly anti-Semitic and did block or slow down several programs (FDR approved by the way) that would have sped up the process for allowing European Jews to immigrate to America, provide finance for partisans and to collect information. Personally I think FDR was one of our greatest Presidents and without his leadership back then we would probably have four trading partners today, Middleeuropa (what Hitler was to call Europe after he unified it under the Nazi banner) the South East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere (what the Japanese were trying to create), Communist China and a Stalinist Soviet Union. But I rather like this world much more, a place where you and others like you can sift through America's past and loosely link some historical inaccuracies to find a conspiracy where there is none and not suffer any consequences. Steve > -- > From: flw > Reply To: Conspiracy Theory Research List > Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2001 9:47 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [CTRL] FDR- Pearl Harbor and the Holocaust > > -Caveat Lector- > > The evidence indicates FDR knew about Pearl Harbor and > did nothing; now it is clear he knew about the impending Holocaust > and did nothing. Now we know what FDR really stands for: > "F**king Dirty Rat." > flw > > THE TIMES > WEDNESDAY JULY 04 2001 > > Allies 'were told of Holocaust in 1941' > > BY BEN MACINTYRE > > BRITISH and American intelligence services knew of Nazi genocide plans > months earlier than previously thought, > according to a newly declassified document in the United States, but did > not warn Jews of the impending > Holocaust. > A report written in November 1941, obtained by British
Re: [CTRL] Lord, Please have mercy . . .
-Caveat Lector- >>On almost all other populated worlds everyone is the same, so what is the attraction in living 800 years like that when you can have 80 of this?<< Ah Dale, what other populated worlds do you know of? ; ) > -- > From: Dale Stonehouse > Reply To: Conspiracy Theory Research List > Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2001 8:32 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [CTRL] Lord, Please have mercy . . . > > -Caveat Lector- > > > -Original Message- > > From: Kris Millegan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 7:14 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: [CTRL] Lord, Please have mercy . . > . > > Can we please can these infernal flame wars. Saba > > aka...aka... doesn't care > > for June and the feeling seems to be mutual either you two > > get a handle on > > it. start your own flame list, Pull in the claws, let it go > > or get gone. > > > > I'll second the motion. > > There seem to be some who have a neurotic addiction to being right, that > is > to make others wrong. I was raised by people like that and in my view it > is > not too far from hell... > > The creative force of this universe has decreed that differences will not > only be allowed, they are encouraged. That is the playing field we have > devised as contributing creative forces. On almost all other populated > worlds everyone is the same, so what is the attraction in living 800 years > like that when you can have 80 of this? > > As Dr. Phil McGraw says to so many married couples, "do you want to be > married to you?," when they express a wish that their mate would do things > exactly like they do them. > > It amuses me to see those who want everyone to be and think exactly like > themselves. If they actually got what they think they want they would die > of > boredom. > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > == > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing > propagandic > screeds are unwelcomed. Substance--not soap-boxin---please! These are > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theor-'--with its many half-truths, mis- > directions and outright fra-ds--is used politically by different groups > with > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and > thought. > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > > Archives Available at: > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl > > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Om > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Israelis Kill Shepherd
-Caveat Lector- >>Doh! Meant to put the subject: Palestinians Kill Shepherd<< Eh, wait a few days and it will be accurate. You could detonate a nuclear bomb there and have only bacteria survive and the Jewish bacteria will try to kill the Arab bacteria and vice versa. What makes anyone think they can change almost two millennia of hate and retaliation? > -- > From: Yardbird > Reply To: Conspiracy Theory Research List > Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2001 2:17 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [CTRL] Israelis Kill Shepherd > > -Caveat Lector- > > Doh! Meant to put the subject: Palestinians Kill Shepherd > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > == > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing > propagandic > screeds are unwelcomed. Substance--not soap-boxin---please! These are > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theor-'--with its many half-truths, mis- > directions and outright fra-ds--is used politically by different groups > with > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and > thought. > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > > Archives Available at: > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl > > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Om > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Sharon Must Stand Trial
-Caveat Lector- >>The court will now launch an investigation into events surrounding the killing > of hundreds of Palestinian men, women and children at the Sabra and > Shatila > refugee camps in Lebanon in 1982, Le Soir reported. > The complaint was filed under a 1993 law allowing Belgian courts to > prosecute foreign officials for human rights violations committed outside > Belgium.<< > I'm assuming that this means if Sharon or Hussein are ever on Belgium soil. Otherwise it is hard to see where Belgium would have the authority to arrest them. Even if they were on Belgium soil its a little presumptuous for Belgium to take it upon itself to take on the role of the international law giver. This is the reason the Hague, despite its misgivings and lack of real judicial power, was established. >>Will Milosevic soon have a cell mate?<< Doubtful. The only reason Slob is on trial at the Hague is that Yugoslavia needs Western cash. According to a report on NPR polls taken in Yugoslavia show people think Milosevic is a criminal (bear in mind not a war criminal) for embezzeling money from the government and extortionist practices against Yugoslavian and international businesses. For that reason they feel he should be tried and imprisoned in Yugoslavia for these crimes. = From CNN.com, April 2, 2001 = The U.S. secretary of state has decided that Yugoslavia qualifies for $50 million aid, following the arrest of Slobodan Milosevic. The U.S. had threatened to cut off the aid if Yugoslavia did not co-operate with a U.N. war crimes tribunal request that Milosevic be handed over by the end of March. A senior U.S. official told CNN that Milosevic's arrest on Sunday was a "significant factor" in Colin Powell's decision -- although further co-operation with the war crimes tribunal would be expected. The tribunal wants Milosevic to be handed over to face the charges over atrocities committed against ethnic Albanians in Kosovo... ...It is not yet clear that the former president -- arrested on charges of stealing state funds during his 13-year rule -- actually will be sent to the tribunal. Yugoslav President Vojislav Kostunica has repeatedly refused to extradite Milosevic -- who was overthrown in a popular revolt last year -- insisting he should be tried at home for corruption and other alleged crimes. End of article The only way Sharon or Hussein could face trial in Belgium is if they ever stepped foot on Belgium soil or if the government of those two countries arrested them and sent them there. The international community has no leverage on either state nor are either of these leaders, despite their current and past hardships, in danger of some internal faction arresting them and sending them to Belgium. Steve > -- > From: flw > Reply To: Conspiracy Theory Research List > Sent: Monday, July 2, 2001 9:35 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [CTRL] Sharon Must Stand Trial > > -Caveat Lector- > > Will Milosevic soon have a cell mate? > flw > > THE COURIER MAIL > Belgian trial for Sharon > > 02jul01 > > A BELGIAN judge has ruled that a complaint against Israel's Prime > Minister Ariel Sharon, accusing him of crimes against humanity, would > be admissible in a Brussels court, a Belgian newspaper reported yesterday. > > The court will now launch an investigation into events surrounding the > killing > of hundreds of Palestinian men, women and children at the Sabra and > Shatila > refugee camps in Lebanon in 1982, Le Soir reported. > The complaint was filed under a 1993 law allowing Belgian courts to > prosecute foreign officials for human rights violations committed outside > Belgium. > > Also a complaint against Iraqi President Saddam Hussein for alleged > crimes against humanity was ruled admissible in Belgium. > > In Jerusalem, the fate of a Middle East peace plan hung in the balance > yesterday as fresh violence stymied efforts to establish a seven-day > period of calm supposed to precede the key steps of an agreement. > > Israeli soldiers killed two Palestinians trying to plant a bomb along a > West Bank road, while an Israeli-Arab motorist was injured slightly > when Palestinian gunmen fired on his car. > > The violence followed a meeting between Palestinian leader Yasser > Arafat and Israeli Prime Minister Shimon Peres at the Socialist > International > meeting in Lisbon in a bid to calm tensions. > > Palestinian witnesses said a dawn gunbattle between Israeli soldiers > and Palestinian gunmen ensued after the two Palestinians, one of whom > served as a policeman in Mr Arafat's security forces, were killed near > the West Bank town of Jenin. > > Officials said the two planned to set off the bomb as Jewish settlers > passed b
Re: [CTRL] Clintons' hit squad
-Caveat Lector- Without disagreeing with your statement below do you not think GBII's admin will also massage numbers on [FILL IN TOPIC HERE] to make shine the best light on their administration. It's all politics. > -- > From: YnrChyldzWyld > Reply To: Conspiracy Theory Research List > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 3:04 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [CTRL] Clintons' hit squad > > -Caveat Lector- > > From: Tito Hammond > >>I seriously doubt this is true. Bush created a mini recession that > continued > >>into the early Clinton years. > > > >What is your source for this recession? > >http://www.gserc.usm.edu/united_states_economy.htm > > As Mark Twain once opined, "You have lies, and you have god-damned lies, > and > then you have statistics..." > > As I explained in a previous post, the Clinton administration manipulated > things so that it would SEEM that things were better, when they in fact > were > not. People like me were being dropped from unemployment and deemed > employed' when we were lucky to be scraping by making a fraction of what > we > d made when really employed. While perhaps technically true that we were > employed', it was a gross distortion to then claim that 'employment is up' > when you had computer programmers, engineers, and other technical people > working in clerical positions just to keep a roof over their heads... > > The 'employment figures' during the Clinton administration don't show the > thousands of highly trained factory workers who'd previously made good > salaries who found themselves without jobs when their factories pulled up > roots and moved south of the border, and these workers now had to get by > flipping burgers or working part-time clerical jobs... > > It also doesn't reflect the fact that not only did these workers finds > themselves having to work for a fraction of their previous salaries, but > also found that they no longer had medical/dental insurance, did not get > paid holidays or paid vacations... > > But heck, according to the Clinton administration, we were > 'employed'...and > we were the ones included in those figures they presented to bolster the > claim that 'employment is up'. > > > June > > Check out Alternative Kite Radio -- > http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno.com > for: > Alternative Kite Radio (basic) > Alternative Kite Summer Beachparty Radio (because it's always summer > somewhere on the globe) > Alternative Kite Holiday Radio (because everyday is a holiday somewhere) > > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > == > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing > propagandic > screeds are unwelcomed. Substance--not soap-boxin---please! These are > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theor-'--with its many half-truths, mis- > directions and outright fra-ds--is used politically by different groups > with > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and > thought. > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > > Archives Available at: > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl > > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Om > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Res
Re: [CTRL] Fwd: The Peace Treaty of Versailles
-Caveat Lector- My neighbors dog keeps coming into my yard, does that mean I can shoot the dog and its owner? Or do I have to call the local dog owner executioner officer? I need clarification as the vegtable garden is really taking a beating... ; ) >>Once the divorce papers came through, he must have felt like the luckiest > man alive...<< > Thanks for the chuckle June... > -- > From: YnrChyldzWyld > Reply To: Conspiracy Theory Research List > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 3:20 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [CTRL] Fwd: The Peace Treaty of Versailles > > -Caveat Lector- > > From: Aleisha Saba > >Today it is illegal for a dog to run at large; if the dog does not have > >a owner, it is murdered; > > More accurately, if said dog comes into the hands of the agents of the > duly > elected municipal/county/state authorities, said dog is duly EXECUTED > according to the statutes of the jurisdiction, if it is not redeemed > before > said execution date. > > > >if it does have an owner, someday they will murder the owner > > Who are 'they' that go around murdering or executing owners of roaming > dogs? > > Gee, the most my parents could ever do is write a ticket...even though > they > were the equivalent to a police officer, and wore a badge and had full > power > of arrest, neither ever wore a gun. The only 'firearm' either used was a > dart gun, and only on dogs, never the owners... ;-) > > My mother DID have a little black bag full of hypodermics and whatever the > med is that puts dogs to sleep...used it in the field to put dogs down > that > were run over by cars and too far gone for hope...never used it on owners > of > roaming dogs, tho... ;-) > > > >Why is this thing so funny to me.it is like my former husband - > >once he told me he was king in this house and when he landed in Divorce > >Court he still believed it? > > Once the divorce papers came through, he must have felt like the luckiest > man alive... > > > > June > > Check out Alternative Kite Radio -- > http://www.altkiteradio.trancetechno.com > for: > Alternative Kite Radio (basic) > Alternative Kite Summer Beachparty Radio (because it's always summer > somewhere on the globe) > Alternative Kite Holiday Radio (because everyday is a holiday somewhere) > > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > == > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing > propagandic > screeds are unwelcomed. Substance--not soap-boxin---please! These are > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theor-'--with its many half-truths, mis- > directions and outright fra-ds--is used politically by different groups > with > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and > thought. > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > > Archives Available at: > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl > > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Om > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fwd: TREATIES
-Caveat Lector- Aleisha Thanks for sending me a link to a list of treaties on various methods of nuclear weapons and technology control/containment. I'm not really sure what this has to do with international treaties covering ICJ or court cases involving foreign nationals in our courts. I've considred what JFK had going for him with Russia sending missles to Cuba and I really don't see what that has to do with my post which was in response to your original post on a German citizen being executed in Arizona and a issue of if the ICJ had any authority in reviewing the case. Once again you seem to ramble on into a string of incoherent thoughts, make claims for which you provide no documentation, all of which have nothing to do with your original message. Could you please post a link or a reference to where you got your information indicating Russia as a ballastic missle shield in place? I won't bother asking what this has to do with international treaties on jurisprudence. Amazingly you then work your way through a New World Order/UN conspiracy, homophobia, foot and mouth disease, a Bible reference and, I suppose coming full circle, America's regrettable history of broken treaties with Native Americans. I guess the only point I can seem to make from your reponse is that you have no problem with the US breaking membership in an international treaty covering court cases involving foreign nationals in our court systems. Steve > -- > From: Aleisha Saba > Reply To: Conspiracy Theory Research List > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 9:12 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [CTRL] Fwd: TREATIES > > <> > So here Steve Surani and consider what JFK had going for him with Russia > sending missiles to Cuba? > > So JFK backed down the great Russian Leadertoday it was reported > Russia has a system like Bush wants America to protect its citizens. > > Now if the UN has its way, they will disarm America > > Oh but there is something much more deadlier is there not - a War on > AIDS.we are to fight AIDS.yet we are to accept the enemy into > our schools and boy scouts for believe me I truly believe AIDS is being > used as a weapon for war - peaceful genocide. > > Like little puppies taken to the pound - the little mutts are put to > sleep - like cattle being slaughtered around the world for oh, they have > a disease even though it is reported most of these cattle did not have > to die. > > We are a Nation of Sheep.well now and then a black sheep comes > along, who like myself takes the less traveled roads and do not fall > down on all fours before implied authority. > > Baa, Baa, Baa. > > Like Black Sheep of old, never liked the Judas sheep - > > Saba > > Ever know a treaty that was not broken - ask American Indian. > > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] World Court claims U.S. jurisdiction
-Caveat Lector- This does lead to a bit of confusion but I think it makes sense in this order: No foreign court or international body can have any influence on a domestic court case involving a US citizen who committed a crime on US soil. Also, having traveled to Africa and South America I know that any citizen, regardless of nationality, is subject to the laws and regulations of the country they are in (with some exceptions made for diplomats) as well as the judicial system of that country. Now according to the article: "The ICJ hears disputes between nations. Its decisions are considered binding and can only be appealed through the U.N. Security Council. Yesterday'sruling essentially reinforced that." This would indicate that we have signed some sort of treaty to abide by the ICJ rulings when legal issues in the US involve a foreign citizen. And it would indicate other signatories to the treaty would also abide by these court rulings when involving an American in their court systems. I don't have a problem with that as these would be unique cases such as the case of the German national who was executed. It makes sense that Germany would protest the execution of one of its citizens by us as they no longer support the death penalty and subsequently natural for an international court to want to suspend the sentence for further review. We're pretty isolated when it comes to the death penalty, most other nations have abandoned it. Here is a question that arises from this for me. There are two prominent instances of American's being held in foreign territories which I am curious if the ICJ had any influence or made any review of. There was the American business man who was held in Russia on charges of stealing information regarding either their submarines or torpedoes/missiles. (Sorry for the ambiguity I don't have any references nearby) He was charged, sentenced and then released. Did ICJ have any involvement here. If I remember the material he allegedly stole was already public record. There is also an American woman who is being held in Peru whose government claims she was a member of the Shining Path movement and involved in terrorist activities. Her appeal was recently turned over and she is still in a mountain top prison down there. Anyone able to expand on this? Thanks Steve > -- > From: Aleisha Saba > Reply To: Conspiracy Theory Research List > Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 8:08 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [CTRL] World Court claims U.S. jurisdiction > > <> > > This is almost funny - jurisdiction in US? > > A California Court doesn't even have jurisdiction in say a Court in > Texas or Ohio? > > The only person who ever took this Court seriously, was Charles Manson > and his followers? > > Someday the fertilizer business will be thriving. > > Now seems there are some war criminal charges pending against Albright, > Clinton, etc., etc., etc. somewhere; however, if these world leaders > want to try themselves in War Crimes Courts I will not object until the > lot of them are executed aat sunrise - for tomorrow is another day? > > Saba > > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] FDR Unmasked
-Caveat Lector- In all my research on WWII I have never heard of this. At the beginning of the war German agents did infiltrate the country (some were landed on the Jersey coast, some in Florida/the Gulf coast(?) ) but they never got far. The Jersey landings were discovered by a shore patrol unit and the agents themselves were not very good "spies". They were either Germans who had emigrated to America or Americans of German descent. Off the top of my head I can remember two groups, one went to Chicago to get organized, ended up spending a lot of their supplied money on clothing and female companionship and got drunk in the neighborhood bars and spoke of their mission. The other went to NYC and did something similar. > -- > From: Damian B. Cooper > Reply To: Conspiracy Theory Research List > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 11:15 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [CTRL] FDR Unmasked > > -Caveat Lector- > > At 09:21 PM 6/26/01 -0400, Carl Amedio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > So what is new about this? This fact is common knowledge. Heck FDR > allowed > > British spies to assassinate German spies in the US. A clear violation > of > > the constitution. > > > > An intersting piece of data. Could you describe more about more about > the > assassination of > German spies in the U.S. by the British. > > Could you provide a source where this is documented? > > Thanks. > > DBC > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > == > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing > propagandic > screeds are unwelcomed. Substance--not soap-boxin---please! These are > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theor-'--with its many half-truths, mis- > directions and outright fra-ds--is used politically by different groups > with > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and > thought. > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > > Archives Available at: > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl > > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Om > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] How Ignorant are Scientists
-Caveat Lector- Perhaps it would be good if you offered a specific example instead of blanketing all scientist in this fashion. I missed the beginning of this thread so I'm not sure if you are talking about a specific incident or just scientist in general. > -- > From: tenebroust > Reply To: Conspiracy Theory Research List > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 10:02 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [CTRL] How Ignorant are Scientists > > -Caveat Lector- > > That is precisely why the analogy works becuase established science has a > religious structure and as such does not take any guff from those who wish > to go outside of its constraints. > > > > > On Wed, 27 June 2001, Foxter wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, tenebroust wrote:>The short answer is > that they > > are ignorant and very when they>deliberately do not look at > evidence and > > cover up or ridicule theories>proposed that do not fit into their > well > > established theories (read:>FACTS).The problem is that > Modern > > Science has become a new religion, repletewith its own rules and > dogma...and > > anyone deviating from the accepteddogma is branded a heretic and > > 'excommunicated'...June > > And the leader of > this new > > religion is the Dollar/ECU/Yen, the motivation Greed. > > That explains why > ordinarily > > kind men and women abandon common sense and > > compassion. > > "Welcome to the desert of the real." Morpheus, in The Matrix > > "My God it's full of stars!" Dave Bowman, in 2001: A Space > Odyssey > Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! > http://www.shopping.altavista.com > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > == > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing > propagandic > screeds are unwelcomed. Substance--not soap-boxin---please! These are > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theor-'--with its many half-truths, mis- > directions and outright fra-ds--is used politically by different groups > with > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and > thought. > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > > Archives Available at: > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl > > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Om > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] NYTimes.com Article: Treated Like Trash
-Caveat Lector- 1. Learn to spell or at least use the spell check capabiltiy of your e-mail application. 2. Learn to write coherently. This stream of conscious writing is annoying 3. Provide some refrences to whatever obscure point you are trying to make: Trying to pull together some sort of sense from your comments below I can only gather that you are: A gun toting,militaristic, homophobic, racist who...actually other than that I can't make sense of what ever your saying. > -- > From: Aleisha Saba > Reply To: Conspiracy Theory Research List > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 3:36 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [CTRL] NYTimes.com Article: Treated Like Trash > > -Caveat Lector- > > Well remember the USS Arizona, the USS Liberty, and the USS Cole. > > Think these men are in a service now of which they may be proud; it took > Clinton eight years to completely demoralize the troops, homosxuals > though now can go to war and be killed along with the best of them - and > oh yes, Courts used to send kinds to the serviice it was there or > jail > > So Elvis Presley went into the service and when a kid he drove a truck; > the servie put him back to where he was most qualified, he drove a > truck. > > He did, however try to set a good example. > > To see a Navy Captain, the one in charge of the submarine break down and > cry about sinking Japanese sub ws a disgraceso now Colin Powell > wants to declare wawr on AIDS when it should be against the Unitaed > Nationsthe model citizen of Jamacian parents, of asian, black, and > white blood.to whom does he really owe his allegiance? > > Where are the Commando Kellys, the Audie Murphys, the Colin Kellys, the > fighting Sullivns - now these were real men and my brother in law was a > real man but also a great brain in over and above the top of > intelligence who was friends to some of the greatest people in the > history of this country. > > So where are they now? Well look at the Sodomist Clinton, the former > Commander in Chief of the Military - the baby murderer - and you see > what this country is today. > > A man was on TV today that explained what Bush wants for this country > Israel already has, India wants, and the Russians in process of doing > now. > > And we are told to disarm? Take away their guns first of all citizens > and infest the militiary with homosexuals...isn't tht sweet and now > the homos want out. > > Well if they go to war, let them go out and get shot at and see the > yellow streaks all the wawy to the guard house. > > Saba > > Further Barbara Douglas of McDonnell Douglas married Hap Arnold's > son.so if the Douglas family and the Arnold family seem to be in > cahoots this is why for they are family now. > > Hap Arnold was a great American Hero...so was General Nathan Twining > and General Hoyt Vandenberg for whom my brother in law worked .he > job ws to set up missile bases over the world to defend the free world > from these bastard Communist countries who murdered of 55 million > CLhristians? > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER > == > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing > propagandic > screeds are unwelcomed. Substance--not soap-boxin---please! These are > sordid matters and 'conspiracy theor-'--with its many half-truths, mis- > directions and outright fra-ds--is used politically by different groups > with > major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and > thought. > That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and > always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no > credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. > > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. > > Archives Available at: > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html > http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl > > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: > SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Om > > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTR
Re: [CTRL] How Ignorant are Scientists
-Caveat Lector- Of course this could be twisted the other way around, any scientist not agreeing with your view can be labeled ignorant and said to prescribe to the new religion and its rules and dogma... > -- > From: Foxter > Reply To: Conspiracy Theory Research List > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 9:02 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [CTRL] How Ignorant are Scientists > > On Tue, 26 Jun 2001, tenebroust wrote: > >The short answer is that they are ignorant and very when they > >deliberately do not look at evidence and cover up or ridicule theories > >proposed that do not fit into their well established theories (read: > >FACTS). > > The problem is that Modern Science has become a new religion, replete > with its own rules and dogma...and anyone deviating from the accepted > dogma is branded a heretic and 'excommunicated'... > > > June > > > And the leader of this new religion is the Dollar/ECU/Yen, the motivation > Greed. > That explains why ordinarily kind men and women abandon common sense and > compassion. > http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] ADL Put Who on their hate lists for the treacherous Lo use Freeh?
-Caveat Lector- Nice incoherent unsubstantiated rant. > -- > From: Aleisha Saba > Reply To: Conspiracy Theory Research List > Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 11:09 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [CTRL] ADL Put Who on their hate lists for the treacherous > Louse Freeh? > > -Caveat Lector- > > Now why is the ADL so upset about the Turner Diaries witten by an > alleged "neo nazi" when they ignored the Video Tape produced by the FBI > and the son of FBI agent who investigated Littleton - Klebold and Harris > of the Trench Coat Mafia stole the entire idea from the movie Heathers - > idea to murder popular Christians? > Not one word from this ADL - now who are they really? Are they linked > and paid by FBI. > > Louis Freeh now is being investigated for his very close association > with this Hannsen who was KGB agent? Louis Freeh who dine with KGB in > Moscow - what was he doing in Moscow entertaining the Mossad but he was > so thrilled even to be sitting with them> > > Look at Waco and and remember it was Warsaw Ghetto Day, and another shot > heard around the worlddid Tmothy McVeigh end up working for FBI and > ADL spying on Militias? > > Had to have something worse to remember on April 19 which is now the day > Oklahoma was blow up = supposed to have been blamed on Osama bin Laden > but it backfired?/ > > Nobody told McVeigh about the babies in the nursery - but ADL and FBI > and BATF and one Judge knew what was going to happen that day and stayed > home? > > ADL took bribe money from Marc Rich for Clinton? > > So this Turner Diaries - oh such a dangerous book - the most dangerous > book about guerrilla tactics is the bible and the Story of Sampson and > Gideon? (and oh so, my Gideon bible calendar code keyed to murder and > sabotage)..now Sampson went for the pillars or the columns holding > up the temple while hit and run Gideon, used a Ryder truck full of > fertilizer to bring down this great temple to injustice and meanwhile > this guy with FBI connections wrote the book on Oklahoma naming the > chief suspect BEFORE the fact, like Littleton? > > So if the KGB can form their own KKK for the Walker Navy spies (my > goodness, even the Navy is suspect - Remember the USS Liberty) but the > Walker spies operated out of their own little KKK and had their own > little neo nazi literatures and things were blamed on militias and > Christians and arabs - > > How stupid can America be to give billions of dollars a year to Israel > When the Mossad taps lines of the President using their little > whore? > > Consider at Littleton the two killers said it was Judgment Day when they > murdered their little Christian classmates - this Trench Coat > Mafia.Judgment Day; in the Gideon Bible McVeigh had circled a > passage "Wrath of God" and if this was not a Judgment Day what else was > it. > > So for whom did McVeigh really work - did he get caught up in the FBI > ADL sting operation to destroy the militias? After all the Michigan > Militia wanted nothing to do with McVeigh for they were somewhat > suspicious of this traveling man? And from where did Nichols get the > gold - was it Gideon's gold who took the golden earrings from the dead > Ishmalites for his mercenary servies? > > After all Gideon was the hit and run guerrilla warfare expert, not the > Turner Diaries, a poorly written book which someone one chapter, was > enough to put you to sleep. > > Saba > > May 3, 1996 > Jews urge ban of hate book, spark free-speech debate > HEATHER CAMLOT > Jewish Telegraphic Agency > > NEW YORK -- Jewish groups have joined a campaign to boycott the selling > of a book that is believed to have inspired the Oklahoma City bombing. > > The American Jewish Committee and the Simon Wiesenthal Center have > contacted major booksellers across the nation, asking them not to > distribute "The Turner Diaries," a fictional work about gun control > written by neo-Nazi William Pierce. > > The Southern Poverty Law Center, an organization headed by Morris Dees > that monitors and fights extremism, first raised concern about the > book's publication and distribution. > > The novel has been in circulation since it was completed in 1978. At > that time, it was published by National Vanguard Books, an arm of the > National Alliance, a neo-Nazi group. More than 185,000 copies were sold. > > But it was inaccessible to the general public until Barricade Books > decided to publish it. A spokeswoman for the publisher said the book was > "in production" last week. > > Calling the book a "bible" of the extreme right wing, Kenneth Stern, > program specialist on anti-Semitism and extremism at the American Jewish > Committee, said it promotes "a political agenda of making Hitler's dream > come true." > In a letter to booksellers, Stern wrote, "The distribution of this book > will help finance one of the main organizations for promoting hatred and > violence against innocent Americans." > Pier
Re: [CTRL] FDR Unmasked
-Caveat Lector- I don't think serious scholars, after 60 years of hindsight, believe that FDR and other top level members of the government and Pentagon felt that our entry into WWII was avoidable. Though the romantic view is that America was an isolationist state through the 1930s and leading up to WWII the reality is far different. America began the road to an international power and eventually a super power with her defeat of the Spanish in the Spanish American War and through that victory the gain of the terrortories of Puerto Rico, Guam, the Phillipines etc. At the beginning of 1898 the fleet of the United States Navy consisted of six battleships, two armored cruisers, thirteen protected cruisers, six steel monitors, eight old iron monitors, thirty- three unprotected cruisers and gunboats, six torpedo boats, and twelve tugs. Assistant Secretary of the Navy Theodore Roosevelt (stick that one in your conspiracy theory pie) organized a Board of Auxiliary Vessels which, utilizing material in the department's war plans, prepared a list of suitable private craft that would meet the Navy's expanded needs. On 9 March Congress passed a $50 million emergency defense appropriation bill, and the Navy Department began to acquire vessels. By the end of the Spanish American war, the navy had purchased or leased 103 warships and auxiliaries. Another twenty-eight vessels were added from existing government organizations including revenue cutters, lighthouse tenders, and the vessels of the Fish Commission. After the war auxiliary vessels such as colliers, refrigerator ships, and distilling ships became a permanent part of the fleet. Even before the war America had begun to embark on the road of internationalism, rapid growth in overseas markets and a foreign policy aimed at U.S. control of communications across the isthmus of Central America drove the country towards naval expansion. America's growth on the international stage continued up to and through WWI with the increased internationalism of US Business (Ford, IBM, etc.) and our entry and contribution to the allied victory in WWI. With the outset of the depression most Americans (as did most people in all countries) turned inward and narrowed their view to their local situation instead of the international stage. However, our government continued to expand our international role. The new terrortories in the South Pacific required the military to expand its role in the Pacific and build new bases to protect these new American interest. This coincided with the rise of Japanese militarism, nationalism and expansionism. Havng felt that its nation was treated as a second tier power in comparison to the Western powers Japan's nationalistic leaders began to develop a plan to unify all of Southeastern Asia under a Greater East Co-prosperity Sphere which would place Japan at the top of the colonial areas to the south. The Japanese motive was to create an Asian bloc that would be organized and defended by Japan. The "New Asian Order" which the Co-prosperity Sphere would promote would contain three essential goals, common defense, political independence, and the integration of economic systems. Thailand, Korea, Indochina, the West Indies, the Philippines, China, and Taiwan, were among the essential countries the Japanese hoped to incorporate into the New Asian Order. The raw minerals especially, oil and coal were needed to fuel Japan's war machine. It also needed to secure petroleum, copper, rubber, tin, and iron to compete with the West. In 1940 Japan only produced one-thirteenth of the coal and steel that the United State produced. During the late 1930s Japan began to make the necessary miltiary moves to start the New Asian Order sending troops into China and French Indochina which raised the condemnation of world powers. This condemnation came in the form of an embargo on Japan, specifically coal from the United States. This caused a serious strain on relations between the two countries, though relations had always been tenous at best, with the Japanese seizure of German possessions in 1917, the US establishment of a base at Caveat in the 20s and Japan's invasion of Manchuria during the 30s. The main military goals of Japanese expansionism was to gain the oil fields in the Dutch East Indies and and to hold them by using the central Pacific islands as a defensive ring.This strategy left the US bases in the Phillipines right in the center of this defensive ring. Japan knew that the United States and the other Western powers would not stand idly by while Japan invaded and conquered their colonies and possesions. The American Pacific Fleet was seen as the largest threat to this Japanese expansionism and its security, The pre-war plan was to grab the oilfields, then make the American Fleet fight its way across the Central Pacific to a final decisive battle in the Philippine Sea. Japan would face the US 9 battleships with their own fleet of 10 battleships. Subs would
