Re: [CTRL] Flags (was: Ashcroft-The Artful Dodger)
-Caveat Lector- From: "Amelia" [EMAIL PROTECTED] What a lovely fairy tale you have concocted concerning slavery in the northern states! Dem's da facts, ma'am...I suggest you get yourself a few good books on American History... Reread my sentence, too. I said they EITHER gave them letters of freedom OR just dumped them. meaning sold them in the South in an especially timely manner, only when it was evident they were going to be freed anyway. Ditto those letters of freedom--only after it was imminent anyway. Hardly the magnanimous gesture you attempt to fabricate. Excuse me, but _I_ am not the one who fabricated the claim in the first place...if YOU reread MY sentences, you will see that I refer to the people involved as 'imaginary'... If my sentence makes no sense to you, it is your reading deficiency as it is perfectly clear what I have stated. Only in your own 'sleep depraved' [sic] mind... There were not that many states admitted in the Missouri Compromise and they were Midwestern with low populations at the time. Just ONE free state admitted under the Missouri Compromise negates your claim that each and every state of the union was a slave-holding state at one time... New England where you live is where the most slaves were. And you can back up this claimhow? Talk about your revisionist history! Southern slaves were often given letters of freedom also and many did not leave their original homes even after receiving their letters. Yes, that claim DOES sound extremely revisionist... It had become economically unfeasible in the South to maintain large slave populations on individual farms and would have been eliminated anyway but Lincoln wanted the credit, If this was true, then why were all those supposedly starving whites still holding onto slaves at the time of the Emancipation Proclamation? Seems to me that if it was 'economically unfeasible' to own slaves even before the war, all those supposedly starving white slaveowners wouldn't have needed to be forced to free them by Lincoln, they would have just opened the door and told their slaves to get the hell out of there... The factories of New England wanted the adult slaves to replace the children they were using as slaves in their factories without the expense of having the cradle to grave responsibility of slaves. Bull. By the time the Industrial Revolution took hold in the northeast -- and this was in the century BEFORE the Civil War -- slavery was already being legislated out of existence in those states. The industrialized north had no need of slaves, or even ex-slaves, as there were more than enough bodies immigrating from overseas to work cheaply in the mills and factories... You spend the time researching the ethnic makeup of those who worked in the northern mills and factories at the time, and you will find that almost none of them employed blacks...first it was Irish and German, later it was Italian, Portuguese, and Russian and eastern European... That situation lasted until well into the 20th century...blacks didn't start getting employed in any numbers in factories until the early 20th century, and then for the most part only in Detroit and Chicago... And yes, that is exactly what I am saying, that whites shared what food they had with blacks for whom they were responsible. Gee, if big bwanna white massa was so good, it's amazing that any black slave accepted being freed...seems to me those ex-slaves would have immediately voted to reinstitute slavery, since according to you they had it so good... June A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Flags (was: Ashcroft-The Artful Dodger)
-Caveat Lector- I had a great great etc grandfather who had 100 some slaves and in his will he gave them their freedom but one old man was allowed to live on the farm until he died, by name of Sam who was a personal butler type of man. So goodbye and good riddance..has Lincoln not been shot he was going to return most to Africa and in fact did.. Think what America would be like today without these racial problems? Like Joe Lieberman said, quoting Jesus Christ in the New Testament maybe God in the old - the poor you have with you always. So class tells - you have the race horse and you have the mule..you have the thorough breds and you have Al Sharpton and Jesse Jacksonyou have the Queen Bees and you have the drones. So what the cotton gin did to free the slaves and blacks from mundane task of picking cotton the computer will not do to those who think they are computer genius - many who cannot even type - and when compters are all talk operated that just leaves the brain to call the shots. Ah but the computer does know know the difference between loose and lose and council and counsel and read and red and bred as in well bred and bread. So we will still need a few honkies like June with her dictionary and word of the day club to be sure, the computer and robot operators do not look too stupid. So no use for slaves anymore.not much use for a lot of peoplegoing out of style. Bet you wish they had lots of clones of Henry Kissinger, even though they would eat us out of house and home? Now then I have a pedigree cat and a pit bull who get along fine.a junk yard dog with a black nose and a siamese with beautiful blue eyes..and all my children have blonde hair and blue eyes and there will always be a demand for blonde haired blue eyed kids Not much demand for mules. A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Fw: Re: [CTRL] Flags (was: Ashcroft-The Artful Dodger)
young and old Do ask your Kind and good will toasist us in geting our freedom for we have indured the galling yok of Bondige Ever Sence we have Ben Brought from our own Country and I those of us that Was Born in this Cuntry have Ben under Bondage our hol lives untill now and their is a grat nomber of us which have been Brotup By Such I men as have Not Larnt us to Read the woord of God Neather have have They Lamt us the mening of the word of I God But have Keept us from the Knoledge of that Salvation which we have a Right to By Jesus Christ But we Think that if we have our Liberty we Shall have an opportunity to Larn the word of God and to Recive good to our Sols as well as our Bodyes and if we Could But injoy our Liberty we think that we Should Be in as Fare a way to make our Calling and Electtion Suer and By Gods Goodness have our Sols Saved from Eerlasting Damnation But we are keep from all favers Both Bodys and Sols But we Look unto that god which is as able to Save us as he is to Save our Marsters But we Depend upon the Blesings of god in making the gurenel asimbly the insterments of Seating us at Liberty from these men that I Now hold us as Servents - But if your honners Refuse to asist us in Releving us from our Marsters we Shall I have Reson to say that you [.?.] Do Not your duty as the word of God says in the Book of Isaiah at the 58 Chapter and 6 varse I To undo the hevy Burdens and to Leat the oppressed Go free and that I ye Brak Every yoke - and this is the Duty of all that have an oppertunity to Releve them that are in Disstrass I and if your honners forgit your Duty all men may say that our Roulars Bare the Sword in vain But if we Kant have our Desier dont think hard of us if By our marsters we say as David Did By his enemies Psalms the 109 and the 6 varce Set thou a wicked man over him and I Let Satan Stand at his Right hand the 7 varc when he Shall Be I Judged Let him Be Condemned and Let his Prayer Become Sin I the 8 varce Let his Days Be few and Let another take his offsice I the 9 varce Let his Children Be fatherliss and his wife a widow the 10 varce Let his Children Be Continually vagabonds and Beg Let them Seek their Bread also out of their Desolate Places the 11 varce Let the Extortioner Catch all that he hath and Let the Stranger Spoil all his Labour the 12 varce Let thair Be none to Extend mercy unto him Neither Let their Be any to favour his fatherless Children I the 13 verce Let his Posterity Be Cut off and in the generation I folowing Let their Name Be Blotted out the 14 varce Let The iniquity of his fathers Be Remembered with the Lord and Let Not the Sin of his mother Be Blotted the 15 varce Let them Be Before the Lord Continually that he may Cut off the memory of them from the Earth the 16 varce Because that he Remembered not to Shew marcy But Perscuted the Poor and nedy I man. And Surr we hope that you will Remember the Poor and oppresed negro men in the State which you are Chosen to Do Justice in So we are abliged to Lement Our Case as in Lamentations at the 5 chapter and 5 varce Our Necks are under Persecution we Labour and have no Rest This petition of 1880 is found among the Trumbull Papers M.H.S., volume 13, part 2, document 251. It was first published by Vincent J. Rosivach in "Three Petitions by Connecticut Negroes for the Abolition of Slavery in Connecticut," Connecticut Review, Volume XVII, no. 2, 79-92. The editor points out that this petition is written in a reasonably good hand by a slave who consulted a King James version of the Bible, perhaps by having the quoted passages read to him. On the petition's exterior are written the words, "Hartford Negro Mem Oct 1780.+ While the year 1780 is probably correct for the year of the petition, there is some doubt its authors were actually from Hartford. and this petition could well be another attempt by the slaves of Fairfield county after the failure of their petition of 1779. We know neither the number or identity of the petitioners. The fact that this petition is found among Governor Trumbull's papers leads Rosivach to suspect that the Governer never bothered to forward it to the Assembly. - Original Message - From: "Ynr Chyldz Wyld" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 6:49 AM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Flags (was: Ashcroft-The Artful Dodger) -Caveat Lector- From: "Amelia" [EMAIL PROTECTED] What a lovely fairy tale you have concocted concerning slavery in the northern states! Dem's da facts, ma'am...I suggest you get yourself a few good books on American History... A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance
Re: [CTRL] Flags (was: Ashcroft-The Artful Dodger)
-Caveat Lector- From: "Aleisha Saba" [EMAIL PROTECTED] So what the cotton gin did to free the slaves and blacks from mundane task of picking cotton The cotton gin did no such thing. In fact, it led to the GROWTH of slavery in the south. The cotton gin has absolutely NOTHING to do with picking cotton; and the fact that you display such ignorance as to what the cotton gin actually DID, suggests that your claims of southern heritage leave a lot to be doubted... the computer will not do to those who think they are computer genius - many who cannot even type - and when compters are all talk operated that just leaves the brain to call the shots. Ah but the computer does know know the difference between loose and lose and council and counsel and read and red and bred as in well bred and bread. Don't know what any of this has to do with the topic of slavery...but DAMN, Aleisha! What ARE those drugs you are on? So we will still need a few honkies like June No honkie...one-quarter Hunkie, tho... ;-) ...and all my children have blonde hair and blue eyes and there will always be a demand for blonde haired blue eyed kids By whom, exactly? June A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Fw: Re: [CTRL] Flags (was: Ashcroft-The Artful Dodger)
-Caveat Lector- June, Well, the Southern states were not the only states where the institution of slavery was practiced. I believe all states had it prior to TWBTS, some a few years back from that time/event. They cleverly sold theirs into the South just prior to the outbreak of the war. Some gave them letters of freedom but many just "dumped" them right before the outbreak of conflict. Also, remember the Emmmancipation Proclamation was not signed until 1864, after a state of general starvation existed in the South. Then the slaves were freed with no way to feed themselves, etc. other than trying to take from people who were already starving. This was careful timing to ensure maximum harm being done to all parties. Slavery is certainly a crime against humanity but all parties here were guilty of practicing it. So have many "civilizations" such as Egyptian, et al. But I do not care if you and Bill burn the Stars and Bars because if we were going to protest too much, something should have been done to stop the KKK from using it so much. They also use the American flag but nobody protests that either. I have seen other strange flags waved around by the KKK that I do not recognize, either. Some look rather "original" and I suspect are of their own design or lack thereof. It (SB) was not a design in the original state flags, either, but incorporated around the time of desegregation, so removing it should not create a big problem. In Montgomery, there is the former capitol of the Confederacy where it flies and people often mistakenly think it is the state capitol. I think it should remain over the historic capitol of the Confederacy, however. Someone on this list mentioned the KKK flag-wavers not being descendents of original slave owners and that is for sure. The KKK hates former slave-owning class and blames them for the presence of Blacks in general It never occurred to me that people do not realize this. They contend "We picked our own cotton and they could have , too." They are by-and-largely two different groups entirely. Of course having married a Latin American and failing to keep the race "pure" qualifies me for special hatred by this particular group. Guess they are not into widening of the gene pool and all of that. I know I live around some members of the KKK but they have shown any sign of being concerned about my presence in any way. Hopefully, it is me in theory and not personally to whom they object. Also, the SB often appears on beach towels and swimming trunks, etc as does the British Union Jack. This is not especially respectful display and has made it into more of an icon of trivia. Re: WWII and civilian populations. If it was collateral damage originally aimed at military targets, I suppose it could not be helped. If, however, civilians and human suffering of same was the object I think it was very wrong. I can think of one incident, Dresden, where this would apply. I am sleep depraved today and the "detail police" who ignore the big picture and concentrate on details may get me on this but my memory from reading long ago only says the civilian population of Dresden tried for three days to surrender and Allied troops ignored this attempt and bombed the hell out of them, retribution and rage. I think that was wrong, if accurate. More recently, the Balkans come to mind where some of our actions were highly questionable like the "enemy tractor" and train bombings. Amelia - Original Message - From: "Ynr Chyldz Wyld" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2001 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Flags (was: Ashcroft-The Artful Dodger) -Caveat Lector- From: "Amelia" [EMAIL PROTECTED] These things are considered war crimes by civilized people. Perhaps. But what about the crimes against humanity the Confederate States of America sought to perpetuate in the 'institution' of human slavery. The Allies burned much of Germany in WWII, also...including "homes, mostly, crops in fields, schools, churches, hospitals and every mile of railroad track existing at the time as well as all civilian food reserves"... Do you consider them guilty of war crimes, too? June A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil a
Re: [CTRL] Flags (was: Ashcroft-The Artful Dodger)
-Caveat Lector- From: "Amelia" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, the Southern states were not the only states where the institution of slavery was practiced. I believe all states had it prior to TWBTS, some a few years back from that time/event. No, that is wrong. Free states admitted under the Missori Compromise never allowed slavery within their borders... And those northern states that had at one time had slavery had outlawed it long before the war. Also, in northern states slavery had been utilized in a much different manner than in the south...in the north, a slave could redeem him or herself, either by buying their freedom (if they were lucky enough to be able to save enough), or by serving as a slave for a set period of time; I believe this varied from state to state, but was usually from 7 to 12 years. At the end of their term of service, the slave was ruled to have redeemed his or her worth and was then set free. In many northern states, slave owners were also required to pay their slaves wages, albeit much lower wages than required of a free man or woman... They cleverly sold theirs into the South just prior to the outbreak of the war. Some gave them letters of freedom but many just "dumped" them right before the outbreak of conflict. This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If these imaginary northern slaveowners gave their slaves letters of freedom, that can hardly be considered 'dumping' them. And if these imaginary slaves had letters of freedom, how could they be sold into slavery in the south? Also, remember the Emmmancipation Proclamation was not signed until 1864, after a state of general starvation existed in the South. Then the slaves were freed with no way to feed themselves, etc. other than trying to take from people who were already starving. So you wish us to believe that prior to the Emancipation Proclamation, all those starving white massas gladly gave up what little food they had to their black slaves? I hardly think so! And the freed black slaves had as much, or little, opportunity to feed themselves in the same manner their ex-masters did... This was careful timing to ensure maximum harm being done to all parties. Slavery is certainly a crime against humanity but all parties here were guilty of practicing it. So have many "civilizations" such as Egyptian, et al. So do the Kuwaitis today...doesn't make it right... June A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Fw: Re: [CTRL] Flags (was: Ashcroft-The Artful Dodger)
-Caveat Lector- June, What a lovely fairy tale you have concocted concerning slavery in the northern states! Reread my sentence, too. I said they EITHER gave them letters of freedom OR just dumped them. meaning sold them in the South in an especially timely manner, only when it was evident they were going to be freed anyway. Ditto those letters of freedom--only after it was imminent anyway. Hardly the magnanimous gesture you attempt to fabricate. If my sentence makes no sense to you, it is your reading deficiency as it is perfectly clear what I have stated. You often use the "no sense" tactic when you do not like what you are reading. There were not that many states admitted in the Missouri Compromise and they were Midwestern with low populations at the time. I have personally seen a slave auction house in Illinois. New England where you live is where the most slaves were. Talk about your revisionist history! Southern slaves were often given letters of freedom also and many did not leave their original homes even after receiving their letters. It had become economically unfeasible in the South to maintain large slave populations on individual farms and would have been eliminated anyway but Lincoln wanted the credit, so it became a pretext..And "freeing" them with no means to provide for themselves was not the best way this could have been handled. The factories of New England wanted the adult slaves to replace the children they were using as slaves in their factories without the expense of having the cradle to grave responsibility of slaves. Here was their chance to have former slaves without having any investment in them. They paid them a sub-slave wage and hoped to lure them there with false promises to work in their factories instead of the children they employed at the time. I always wonder why so many Blacks stay in the evil South. One would think they would escape by any means. The latest census confirms that since 1970 they have been returning in large numbers now that there are jobs in the area. Of course NAFTA has eliminated lots of those. But I cannot help but wonder why they stayed right after TWBTS in such large numbers. They could have all left the region and come to live in the Northeast but most did not and stayed. The treatment and conditions varied greatly from situation to situation in the South also and there was no standard just as there was no standard for the way people were treated within families. And yes, that is exactly what I am saying, that whites shared what food they had with blacks for whom they were responsible. That is well documented and you are the first person I have ever heard claim otherwise. But you fabricate a nice story. And it is a way to project the national guilt onto one section instead of all guilty parties facing up to their own participation in a system that was morally wrong. How convenient! Amelia - Original Message - From: "Ynr Chyldz Wyld" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 05, 2001 7:53 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Flags (was: Ashcroft-The Artful Dodger) -Caveat Lector- From: "Amelia" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, the Southern states were not the only states where the institution of slavery was practiced. I believe all states had it prior to TWBTS, some a few years back from that time/event. No, that is wrong. Free states admitted under the Missori Compromise never allowed slavery within their borders... And those northern states that had at one time had slavery had outlawed it long before the war. Also, in northern states slavery had been utilized in a much different manner than in the south...in the north, a slave could redeem him or herself, either by buying their freedom (if they were lucky enough to be able to save enough), or by serving as a slave for a set period of time; I believe this varied from state to state, but was usually from 7 to 12 years. At the end of their term of service, the slave was ruled to have redeemed his or her worth and was then set free. In many northern states, slave owners were also required to pay their slaves wages, albeit much lower wages than required of a free man or woman... They cleverly sold theirs into the South just prior to the outbreak of the war. Some gave them letters of freedom but many just "dumped" them right before the outbreak of conflict. This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If these imaginary northern slaveowners gave their slaves letters of freedom, that can hardly be considered 'dumping' them. And if these imaginary slaves had letters of freedom, how could they be sold into slavery in the south? Also, remember the Emmmancipation Proclamation was not signed until 1864, after a state of general starvation existed in the South. Then the slaves were freed with no way to feed themselves, etc. other than trying to take from people who were alread
[CTRL] Fw: Re: [CTRL] Flags (was: Ashcroft-The Artful Dodger)
We know how you folks like to burn things "Confederate"! Homes, mostly, crops in fields, schools, churches, hospitalsand every mile of railroad track existing at the time as well as all civilian food reserves. Yes, I believe this was the most successful scorched earth policy ever. These things are considered war crimes by civilized people. Amelia - Original Message - Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [CTRL] Flags (was: Ashcroft-The Artful Dodger) In a message dated 2/2/01 9:26:18 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Don't know about Samantha, but I know _I_ would burn the Confederate flag 'and all for which it stands for', in a heartbeat...Me too...and have actually... Bill.
Re: [CTRL] Flags (was: Ashcroft-The Artful Dodger)
-Caveat Lector- From: "Amelia" [EMAIL PROTECTED] These things are considered war crimes by civilized people. Perhaps. But what about the crimes against humanity the Confederate States of America sought to perpetuate in the 'institution' of human slavery. The Allies burned much of Germany in WWII, also...including "homes, mostly, crops in fields, schools, churches, hospitals and every mile of railroad track existing at the time as well as all civilian food reserves"... Do you consider them guilty of war crimes, too? June _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Flags (was: Ashcroft-The Artful Dodger)
-Caveat Lector- From: "Aleisha Saba" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bet you fly the Gay Pride flag but would burn the Confederate and all for which it stands? Don't know about Samantha, but I know _I_ would burn the Confederate flag 'and all for which it stands for', in a heartbeat... As for the 'Gay Pride' flag...well, that's a funny thing... Seems that for years, the guys who fly the really huge (23 feet by 18 feet), expensive kites down at the beach where I also fly, had at least one of these 'rainbow' flags to fly off the line of the big kites (these kites pull 1000 to 2000 pounds)... These guys are married and straight. The rainbow flag had nothing to do with 'gay pride' to them, these flags were marketed in almost every kite retail outlet, both physical stores and online. If anything, people equated the rainbow flag to the "Rainbow Coalition", which originally only meant civil rights for people of all colors... Then suddenly the rainbow flag got hyped as the 'symbol of gay pride'...and the kite fliers at the beach never flew theirs again... ;-) Two years ago, 2 gay guys came along and were totally overwhelmed with the sight of all those really huge, rainbow-colored kites in the sky...and one of them announced that he was going to buy himself one to fly the following month at a gay pride festival being held at a park in Hartford...because he announced that such a kite, in rainbow colors, certainly was an appropriate symbol of gay pride...(bet he was in for a bit of a shock when, if he really did pursue buying one of these things, that the cost of the kite, matching 25-foot spinsocks, 300-foot tube tail, and all the necessary rig to launch, fly, and keep it anchored runs $2000 to $2500)...not to mention understanding the DANGER involved in trying to handle one of those things without training)... I have a rainbow-colored windsock in the shape of a trout. These too have been marketed in kite outlets for years (we attach various types of windsocks not only to kites, but to the flying line as "line candy")... This past summer, someone started selling these windsocks on Ebay, hyping them as "show your gay pride, fly one of these rainbow-colored trout windsocks"...so apparently I now have a gay fish... ;-) Next we'll be hearing that all those St. Patricks Day images of pots of gold at the end of rainbows shows gay Irish pride... ;-) So the point I'm trying to make is, just because someone is flying a rainbow-colored item does NOT necessarily mean they are making a statement regarding homosexuality... ;-) June A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED]/A http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ A HREF="http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/"ctrl/A To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Flags (was: Ashcroft-The Artful Dodger)
In a message dated 2/2/01 9:26:18 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Don't know about Samantha, but I know _I_ would burn the Confederate flag 'and all for which it stands for', in a heartbeat... Me too...and have actually... Bill.
