Re: [CTRL] White House: No-pray zone - Is this USA?
-Caveat Lector- On 19 May 2001, at 21:07, YnrChyldzWyld wrote: > > Go through the archives... Your refusal to provide a direct response comes as no surprise. http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] White House: No-pray zone - Is this USA?
-Caveat Lector- Both the Bible and the Koran (and perhaps other holy books as well) advise closeted or private prayer. I agree that true members of any faith do not feel the need to drop to their knees or join hands to intone their prayers in public places. Still, if you want to impress people with your piety, it's really hard to do that unless you make sure everybody is aware of how seriously you take your religiocity. Prudy http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] White House: No-pray zone - Is this USA?
-Caveat Lector- On Sat, 19 May 2001, kl wrote: >Which members of this group have told you they would applaud >discriminating against Muslims? Give us the names please. If you >cannot do so, you are simply making another groundless ass-umption. Go through the archives...you'll find that posts decrying what they deem 'discrimination against Christians' come from the same people who routinely decry instances where other religions have been allowed free expression in public venues... These people only want 'freedom of worship' extended to Christianity, and to exclude all other religions June http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] White House: No-pray zone - Is this USA?
-Caveat Lector- Tell me Bill and Lassie: Is there anything worse - anything worse than a month of Sundays? Once a week is bad enough. Saba http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] White House: No-pray zone - Is this USA?
-Caveat Lector- On 18 May 2001, at 21:41, William Shannon wrote: > > I agree with June here and wonder if we ought to also allow Buddhists to > burn incense in the White House or Pentacosts to handle snakes there too? > I think that would be kind of neat. I like incense. And what have you got against snakes? -- Best Wishes Vices are simply the errors which a man makes in his search after his own happiness. Unlike crimes, they imply no malice toward others, and no interference with their persons or property. -Lysander Spooner http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] White House: No-pray zone - Is this USA?
-Caveat Lector- > > But I'm sure that if instead of Christians, the group publicly > demonstrating its collective faith were Moslems, those who are condemning > the White House would be roundly APPLAUDING the decision to prevent Moslem > worship in the White House. > Which members of this group have told you they would applaud discriminating against Muslims? Give us the names please. If you cannot do so, you are simply making another groundless ass-umption. -- Best Wishes Anyway, no drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power. ~~P.J. O'Rourke http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] White House: No-pray zone - Is this USA?
-Caveat Lector- On Fri, 18 May 2001, William Shannon wrote: >It's clear to anyone who wants to see that these praying Xians are carrying >on like this as a provocative act. > >They are simply rabble rousing. Perhaps, perhaps not. Perhaps it really is a sincere demonstration of their faith. But what bothers me is the implication that only demonstrations of the CHRISTIAN faith should be allowed. That philosophy is implied by the stated outrage that the demonstration of Christian faith wasn't allowed, as if it is a 'given' that demonstrations of the Christian faith should automatically be allowed in all public venues. But I'm sure that if instead of Christians, the group publicly demonstrating its collective faith were Moslems, those who are condemning the White House would be roundly APPLAUDING the decision to prevent Moslem worship in the White House. And that's hypocritical. If they want Christians to be allowed to publicly pray en masse within the White House, they will also have to accept all other religions -- religions many of them find intolerable -- being allowed to do the same. When these so-called Christians bemoan 'religious intolerance', it is only when they perceive such intolerance as being directed towards them...they are quite pleased to have intolerance directed against what they perceive as 'enemy' religions... June http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] White House: No-pray zone - Is this USA?
-Caveat Lector- WRONG, as usual. On Fri, 18 May 2001 14:26:12 EDT William Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > In a message dated 5/18/01 1:22:52 PM Central Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > writes: > > > > I understood your point and I agree with it. I would prefer to > allow all > > > > Why in the world does anyone need to display their faith during a > tour??? > That's just stupid, trying to be provocative. > Pray before or after, why the obsessive need to do this in public? > Sounds > like a mental illness to me. > > Bill. http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] White House: No-pray zone - Is this USA?
In a message dated 5/18/01 7:55:17 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sounds like Bigotry to me, Billy Boy. Then Q-tip those ears. I agree with June here and wonder if we ought to also allow Buddhists to burn incense in the White House or Pentacosts to handle snakes there too? It's clear to anyone who wants to see that these praying Xians are carrying on like this as a provocative act. They are simply rabble rousing. Bill.
Re: [CTRL] White House: No-pray zone - Is this USA?
At 02:26 PM 5/18/01 , you wrote: In a message dated 5/18/01 1:22:52 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I understood your point and I agree with it. I would prefer to allow all religions to display their faith rather than to prevent them from doing so. Why in the world does anyone need to display their faith during a tour??? Need? It was a WANT. How intolerant of you, Bill. That's just stupid, trying to be provocative. Praying is provacative? Stupid? How intolerant of you, Bill. Pray before or after, why the obsessive need to do this in public? Are you telling folks when and where to pray? How intolerant of you, Bill. Sounds like a mental illness to me. Sounds like Bigotry to me, Billy Boy. Bill. It's not a mental illness.It's called Liberty. And we will defend it from those who try to take it. --- -tHE eXTREMIST Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is Liberty. -II Corinthians 3:17
Re: [CTRL] White House: No-pray zone - Is this USA?
In a message dated 5/18/01 1:22:52 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I understood your point and I agree with it. I would prefer to allow all religions to display their faith rather than to prevent them from doing so. Why in the world does anyone need to display their faith during a tour??? That's just stupid, trying to be provocative. Pray before or after, why the obsessive need to do this in public? Sounds like a mental illness to me. Bill.
Re: [CTRL] White House: No-pray zone - Is this USA?
-Caveat Lector- On 18 May 2001, at 13:28, YnrChyldzWyld wrote: > The point the person forwarding the article was making was how 'terrible' > it was that a group wasn't allowed to publicly practice their Christian > worship in the White House during a tour; MY point is that if the original > poster feels Christians should be allowed to publicly display their faith > within the White House, then ALL religions should be allowed to do so, > too... > I understood your point and I agree with it. I would prefer to allow all religions to display their faith rather than to prevent them from doing so. -- Best Wishes Man has discovered that to kneel before God at least is more dignified than to lie down before a psychiatrist. -William A. Donaghy (1909-1975) http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] White House: No-pray zone - Is this USA?
From: kl > - followers of Santeria & Voudoun making animal sacrifices and dancing> until their gods 'mount' them;Violates animal cruelty laws in just about every state I know of. Nope. It's already gone through the courts, and the ruling was in favor of those practicing those religions. > If you allow one religious group to pray in the White House, you have to> allow them all...Has anyone passed a law preventing them from doing so? The point the person forwarding the article was making was how 'terrible' it was that a group wasn't allowed to publicly practice their Christian worship in the White House during a tour; MY point is that if the original poster feels Christians should be allowed to publicly display their faith within the White House, then ALL religions should be allowed to do so, too... June _Bravenet IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: [CTRL] White House: No-pray zone - Is this USA?
-Caveat Lector- On 17 May 2001, at 20:01, YnrChyldzWyld wrote: > Well then, in the name of tolerance, you surely can't object to the White > House also allowing on the State Floor: > > - Muslims laying down prayer rugs and praying towards Mecca; > > - Buddhists in orange robes twirling prayer wheels and chanting; Ok with me > > - followers of Santeria & Voudoun making animal sacrifices and dancing > until their gods 'mount' them; Violates animal cruelty laws in just about every state I know of. > > - Satanists making human sacrifices; Murder is illegal > > - any flavor of pagans wishing to perform their own rites Who cares? > If you allow one religious group to pray in the White House, you have to > allow them all... > Has anyone passed a law preventing them from doing so? > > June -- Best Wishes My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind. -Albert Einstein http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substancenot soap-boxingplease! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright fraudsis used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. Archives Available at: http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html";>Archives of [EMAIL PROTECTED] http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/";>ctrl To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] White House: No-pray zone - Is this USA?
Well then, in the name of tolerance, you surely can't object to the White House also allowing on the State Floor: - Muslims laying down prayer rugs and praying towards Mecca; - Buddhists in orange robes twirling prayer wheels and chanting; - followers of Santeria & Voudoun making animal sacrifices and dancing until their gods 'mount' them; - Satanists making human sacrifices; - any flavor of pagans wishing to perform their own rites If you allow one religious group to pray in the White House, you have to allow them all... June _Bravenet IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
[CTRL] White House: No-pray zone - Is this USA?
-Caveat Lector- WJPBR Email News List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Peace at any cost is a Prelude to War! TESTING THE FAITH White House: No-pray zone Secret Service boots out students who asked God to bless president -- -- By Matthew Mittan of The Asheville Tribune © 2001 TRIBUNE PAPERS, INC. Eleven high-school students, two parent escorts and a teacher were abruptly escorted out of the White House this week after daring to stop during a tour of "the people's house" to pray for its chief resident, President George W. Bush. When students from Merrimon Christian School in Asheville, N.C., left for the nation's capital Monday, little could they foresee the controversy they would find themselves in. Being booted from the White House and having one of their chaperons "pounded" and yelled at by security agents was the furthest thing from their minds. Their tour of the White House State Floor, where major political receptions take place, was nearly completed, and they were waiting to go on to the next part before exiting the White House. Ahead of the MCS students was another group. According to Ms. Pat Aldrich, a high school teacher at MCS, the group ahead of them had loitered around for about 10 minutes before moving on with the tour. Once that group left, MCS students decided to join hands in a circle -- off to the side of the big room but not beyond the public area -- and pray. Aldrich told the Asheville Tribune by cell phone yesterday, "We [had] decided we were going to pray for the president [while in the White House]." She also said that they wanted to thank God for giving them safe travel to Washington, D.C. That's when things took a sudden turn. "Larry, the group leader, started with his prayer first and each person was going to say a brief prayer," Aldrich, whose prayer was second, continued. "We had been there less than a minute (praying quietly)" when a Secret Service agent came over and, according to the teacher, started physically intervening in the prayer. "He was pounding on her (Mrs. Renee Gordy, a parent) shoulder while I was praying, yelling 'MA'AM! MA'AM! MA'AM!'" she said. Aldrich completed her brief prayer before the group let go of each others' hands. Aldrich says that the official then "rudely" began ordering the group to "take it outside" and that they couldn't stay in the room. When it was mentioned that the group before them had lingered in the room a full 10 minutes, the security officer is said to have yelled at the group, saying, "I make the rules here, and you obey them!" "We feel like we were told to leave because we were praying," Aldrich said. "He was rude beyond all belief." She said of the students, "The kids were angry that this is supposed to be 'the people's house' and they treated us this way." Aldrich said that the agent was particularly rude toward one female student, Jessica Banks. Scott Thompson, Headmaster of MCS, was fully supportive of the group's prayer and the response of his students and adult chaperons to the incident. Asked if Aldrich might face any consequences with the school upon her return, Thompson said, "None whatsoever!" In fact, when Aldrich asked Thompson if she could draft a letter of complaint against the White House, he gave her immediate approval to do so. He also said that if the kids were feeling any anger, fear or curiosities about the confrontation that they should also be encouraged to write to government officials. Thompson continued, "John Locke wrote about toleration. Toleration is the ability to discuss our differences and tell someone why you believe the way you do. I think we've redefined toleration in America today. Tolerance now means not talking about things you believe in." He believes that is what happened Tuesday at the White House, that there was a lack of tolerance of public prayer. Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C., has his office "aggressively pursuing answers" as to what, exactly, led to this confrontation between White House security and the student group from Asheville. Michael Briggs, a spokesman from Edwards' Washington, D.C., office told the Tribune that Edwards is co-chair of the Senate Prayer Breakfast and that he very much wants to "find out what happened." Briggs said that their office had contacted the Secret Service and was waiting for a call back from them. Edwards later called the Tribune to add, "I can't imagine what the objection would be to students praying on government property. I pray regularly on government property. I want to make sure this doesn't happen again." The office of Rep. Charles Taylor, R-N.C., has told MCS that this is an executive branch issue and they are from the legislative branch. Taylor's Asheville office had little to no comment on the situation and offered no referrals to the Tribune for official comment. Rep. Taylor declined an opportunity to
