Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[name AOL USER]

In a message dated 4/24/00 8:52:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Perhaps we ought to stop trading with everybody, but IF we're going to trade
  with other communist regimes, we shouldn't exclude Cuba simply because the
  rabble in S.Florida tell us to. If you want to stop all international
trade,
  OK...that's a different matter with it's own set of problems (and
benefits).

Cuban music and culture are forbidden in S. Florida, by law. No public
performances by groups from Communist Cuba...I don't know if this is just
Dade county or state-wide. but is un-American as hell.

More interesting as a topic is the issue of NO foreign trade. we PROBABLY
could be self-reliant, with oil from Alaska, etc. I visited Russia after the
fall of Communism and was amazed on two levels: things were simultaneously
bad and goo. People were making peanuts ($25 a month in Rubles) but I once
had a talk with our translator...she made about $30 per month, but paid $1.25
per month for her heated apartment, a buck for a phone, etc etc. Payphones
calls in Moscow were 2 kopeks then...about 1/10th of a cent. The buses and
subways were maybe 10 kopeks. And within Russia you could fly $6000 miles
from Moscow to Siberia for $45. As a tourist I paid $210 for the same flight.
Only after opening the borders did "real world" econmic realities set in, and
severely damaged the ability of pensioners to survive (the govt never raised
pensions to match skyrocketing inflation).
The point of all this is that I have come to believe that a closed economic
system can set whatever prices it wants on the goods it produces, and the
[people will survive. But once the gates have been opened to foreign trade,
level has to meet world realities.

OK, where am I headed with this?  It follows that despite improvements in
productivity, EVENTUALLY the countries with the largest working populations
(and this means largest markets, too) will prevail. Chinas 1.5 Billion and
Indias 1.0 Billion will overrun us someday, using our foreign trade deficits
to accomplish this.

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[Ynr Chyldz Wyld]

From: "E. J. Smith" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 As for the girl being hospitalized, can any of you honestly say that at
 the age of 21 you could have handled the stress she has been under any
 differently or better?

She was also hospitalized for stress last summer, well before Elian came
into her life...so it would seem the girl has definite psychological and
emotional problems.

As for handling the stress she's been under...well I've had much more
traumatic events happen in my own life, and I didn't have to seek
hospitalization every time things didn't go my own way.  This girl is a
spoiled brat.  The stress resulting from the "Elian situation" was of
her own making, with the help of her father and other Miami relatives.


June

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[Bill Richer]

In a message dated 4/24/00 8:52:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 I'm a fool? (FYI, that oughtta' read "you're" and not "your") but I'm the
  fool, right?
  Perhaps we ought to stop trading with everybody, but IF we're going to
trade
  with other communist regimes, we shouldn't exclude Cuba simply because the
  rabble in S.Florida tell us to. If you want to stop all international
trade,
  OK...that's a different matter with it's own set of problems (and
benefits).
  Where am I you ask? Chicago...if it matters.

  Bill.
Bill
 Chicago hey!  Well you know America first!  So Lets go!

Bill


WJPBR Email News List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Peace at any cost is a prelude to war!


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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[uaicvtmb]

Hear, Hear, Well Put. Read my post in my Response to "Given."

~   Mike   ~
V.F.A. - VT.
*

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[uaicvtmb]

Bill:

Your too much, Castro's Daughter of All People
Would Know Castro and His Regime Plans More
than Anyone. That Old Bastard had his Patrol Boats
Machine Gun Innocient People in boats trying to
leave his "Dictatorship" that "was" kept afloat by
Millions from Soviet Russia. Now that "Mother
Russia" has no Money to Support his "Welfare
State", he is desprite to keep in power any way
he can.
What about the Shooting Down of American
Private Planes in International Waters? I don't care
if they were "Cuban-American Exiles" that were
Shot Down. They Were American Citizens just as
we are. And Deserve the Protection Afforded them
under the Constitution.  Tryannts and Dictators Care
Not for Their People, Nor Do international Corporations
Like ADM that wants to build a large refinary in Cuba.
This Whole this is a disgusting International Chess Match
for Corporate Greed and Political / Intellectual Flatulence.

~  Mike  ~
U.A.I.C.-VT.
**

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[uaicvtmb]

AMEN to That. Exactly, No Thanks to NAFTA Or GATT.

   Mike
U.A.I.C.-VT.
4/25/2K


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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[William Shannon]

In a message dated 4/25/00 1:40:27 AM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Cuban music and culture are forbidden in S. Florida, by law. No public
 performances by groups from Communist Cuba...I don't know if this is just
 Dade county or state-wide. but is un-American as hell. 

If this is true it's an outrage...but it just shows that S.Florida IS a
breakaway bananna republic.

Bill.

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[Jim Condit Jr]

Gee, Kris, you have even more typos in your response than some of my
messages have had -- but I think I get your drift. ... Yes, my mind is
always "snapped to attention" by the external forces of Police State tactics
against a good family and an innocent kid. Believe me, so have hundreds of
thousands, maybe millions of other Americans. I hope you're not believing
the #$% polls the Big Networks are putting out about 2 out of 3 people in
America supporting the Clinton/Reno/Castro commando raid against the Miami
family. What #$$% -- and how come so FEW of the long time conspiracy sleuths
on this list seem to be upset by such OVERT lies by the Ruling Elite? As I
said, Party on, Dudes! Jim Condit Jr.

 -Original Message-
 From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
 Behalf Of Kris Millegan
 Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 12:09 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style


 In a message dated 4/23/00 7:51:16 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 This has got to be the strangest Conspiracy Research List in the World,
 most
 
 of its longest standing members seem to always trust the government no
 
 matter how outrageous their actions, i.e. Party on, dudes. Jim Condit Jr.
 
 
 
  -Original Message-
 No, I believe that you misread the situation because if an irrational
 response to Communism. What you are experiencing is you mind be
 whipsawed to
 attention by external forces. Balance comes from within. The velveeta
 revolution card is being played. Yes, their is much conspiracy arraign but
 your folk's whipped emotives surrounding the Elian case are straight
 Cheez-whiz, lots of air.

 The news media is in no way free. Yes, Clinton and Reno are flawed, tragic
 characters but if you truly believe that they rule their own actions, you
 have been listening to the deep story.

 This drama is a public spectacle that has been mostly
 orchestrated by forces
 that hold much sway in the Cuban community, that being
 corruption, the CIA,
 mobsters and narcotic traffickers, including such folks as the Bush Crime
 family.

 Why is there no discussion in the media about Bush's membership
 in the Order
 of Skull and Bones and its death-heads symbols and its foreign
 and Illuminati
 origins.

 The Free Press is not free, so what the #@() are you listening
 to what they
 are saying. They don't want your mind just your . . . .

 The Elian case is a slick electioneering farce aimed at hardening
 ignorance
 and fear into votes and supposed votes.

 Ain't no good guys and no bad guys, just "their" guys - Bush, Gore,
 Buchannon, McCain. And just what in the $*( to you expect one of these
 "leaders" to do.

 There are real conspiracies out there. Look before you leap.

 MHO
 Om
 K
 -
 Aloha, He'Ping,
 Om, Shalom, Salaam.
 Em Hotep, Peace Be,
 All My Relations.
 Omnia Bona Bonis,
 Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
 Amen.
 Roads End

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 frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and
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=

Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[Tara]

That is the most astute observation I have ever seen made on this list.
Bravo!

And so some won't consider this a wasted post:
to Kris:
(snip) from your response to Jim's post:
The Elian case is a slick electioneering farce aimed at hardening ignorance
and fear into votes and supposed votes.
Ain't no good guys and no bad guys, just "their" guys - Bush, Gore,
Buchannon, McCain. And just what in the $*( to you expect one of these
"leaders" to do.
(end snip)

And one little boy, who's been through a hell most of you can't ever
imagine, and is now being used and ABUSED by the federal government of the
United States. Yeah, Janet Reno really loves kids, as another poster
mentioned, but I think she prefers them drugged.

Tara

When truth needs a voice, silence lies.


-Original Message-
From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Jim Condit Jr
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2000 10:57 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style


This has got to be the strangest Conspiracy Research List in the World, most
of its longest standing members seem to always trust the government no
matter how outrageous their actions, i.e. Party on, dudes. Jim Condit Jr.

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[Tara]

It's a natural part of being human. Called compassion and giving a damn.

Tara

When truth needs a voice, silence lies.


-Original Message-
From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of nessie
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 3:06 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style


[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:

 how come so FEW of the long time conspiracy sleuths

on this list seem to be upset by such OVERT lies by the Ruling Elite?



This thing is a diversion. How come so many of you supposedly
sophisticated political scientists fell for it hook, line and sinker?

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[Ynr Chyldz Wyld]

From: "William Shannon" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 If she is so emotionally and mentally fragile, she's hardly fit to assume
 the role of Elian's mother... 

 And if you caught her performance in DC yesterday you'd see that she is
 verging on insanity...rambling...and her level of education too is a concern.
 We have enough brain-dead parents...she can't even convert her thoughts to
 words without cringe-inducing errors of syntax and grammar...

I'm not prepared to require parents pass a literacy test as a prerequisite to
parenthood.  I suppose we can assume that English being her second language can
perhaps be the reason for her poor grammar...

But I DO expect a parent to be mentally and emotionally stable, something this
Marisleysis has demonstrated time and again is questionable...

Since last November she's been hospitalized more than once due to stress, and
it's highly unlikely she would have been released from the hospital without a
followup prescription for at least one psychoactive drug to control her emotions...
her behavior this weekend seems to point to her being under some sort of medication...

But the core of the issue is:  what is this family doing to support itself?  They
are all unemployed, so who's footing the bill for their house, the food they put on
the table, their clothes (especially the cold-weather clothes they suddenly sported
upon arrival in DC), who's paying for Marisleysis' continual hospitalization and
medication for 'stress', and finally, who's paying for their legal team?

Since no one in that family has a job, how can they reasonably expect to properly
raise a 6 year old to adulthood?


June

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[Ynr Chyldz Wyld]

From: "Jim Condit Jr" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To "Bill Shannon": Oh! Tough toe nails! You had to listen to truth for 30
 minutes from Marisleysius!

The truth according to the Brothers Grimm...


 She was plenty educated for a first generation
 Cuban American and, since your knocking Cuban Americans so freely, I'd sure
 rather listen to her slightly latinized English than the perfect English
 spoken by all the diabolically-oriented lefty-pro-communist Khazar Jews who
 inhabit and run "our" newsmedia -- for heavens sakes, I've begin to wonder
 if my television has turned into the "electronic Jew" in these last few
 years.

I thought antisemitism was banned from this list...


 This is the same faction that has supported and kept Castro in power
 since 1959,

As opposed to the Italian Mafia who supported and kept in power the corrupt
regimes prior to Castro?


 I'm charging that the Clinton/Castro/Craig thugs drugged Elian immediately.
 News flash for you: the picture of Elian with Dad (who's also in a tough
 spot) show a bandaid right over where an IV would have been started -- of
 course, that picture's under heavy attack for being doctored,

Yes, and if it WAS doctored, one would expect the bandaid to be airbrushed out,
if indeed it represents what you claim it represents.

But there is no reason for Elian to have been given an IV, if what you are
suggesting is that he was drugged with some sort of psychoactive drug...such
medications are usually given orally, occasionally intraveneously via an
injection (which wouldn't have required a bandage), but rarely through an
IV drip...

But I still wonder about the surgeon being on the flight to DC, rather than a
pediatrician...the presence of the surgeon on the flight suggests that Elian
perhaps DID undergo some sort of medical procedure at the hospital he was
brought to after being taken in the dawn raid...

I suspect perhaps some sort of tracking device may have been implanted in him,
so that authorities will be able to track his movements, especially if one
faction or the other kidnaps him...


 The burden
 of PROOF is on the federal kidnappers. PRODUCE THE BOY! THey CAN'T.

In our form of jurisprudence, the burden of proof is on the accuser, not the
accused.  It's up to YOU to produce proof for your allegations.

Just because the Miami faction abused the boy by turning his life into the
Truman Show, doesn't mean that others should be expected to continue that
abuse.  The kid needs time to be alone, and not paraded like a pet in front
of crowds...a caring person would NOT parade the child in front of cameras...


 Everyone I know who's not brain dead,
 including medical personnel I know, said immediately that the kid was being
 drugged. Rush Limbaugh said on Friday that if they took the kid they would
 immediately drug him.

As opposed to the drugging the Miami faction was doing?  Plus the obvious
drugs that Marisleysis is using'stress', indeed...


 You, obviously, are not the least bit disturbed that
 the boy has disappeared.

Okay, if the boy's 'disappeared', where is he?


 YOu call Donato a thug -- the guy who rescued Elian from the ocean.

I don't know if he is a 'thug'...it's interesting that this supposed
fisherman has hardly gone fishing since the day he 'discovered' Elian,
and instead spends day after day hanging around the Gonzalez home in
Miami.  A very strange fisherman, who can afford to not go out fishing
for weeks on end.  I know fishermen in MY area can't even afford to
give up one day of fishing, let alone weeks

So just like the Gonzalez's, this guy seemingly has no job...so who's
paying the bills?

Since you seem to have all the answers, perhaps you can tell us how the
Gonzalez's support themselves, and can be expected to adequately support
a 6 year old to adulthood, when none of them have a job...?  ;-)

It's really bugging you that the majority of Americans support Elian
being returned to his father, isn't it?


June

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[Ynr Chyldz Wyld]

From: "Jim Condit Jr" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 This has got to be the strangest Conspiracy Research List in the World, most
 of its longest standing members seem to always trust the government no
 matter how outrageous their actions, i.e. Party on, dudes. Jim Condit Jr.

Hardly.  Those of us who have been around awhile recognize manipulation on BOTH
sides of the issue, and don't fall into a kneejerk response on either extreme...

I notice you conveniently ignore the issues raised below -- like, just who is
paying the Miami relatives' bills?  And Marisleysis' competency to be a mother,
when she's been hospitalized for 'stress' many times since November, and
presumably is currently under medication (patients admitted to a psych ward are
rarely releashed without at least one prescription for a psychoactive substance)...

I don't want to hear your kneejerk response of "Well, who's paying for Juan Miguel?"
Presumably the Castro government is.  That's obvious.  But at least Juan Miguel
has a job, something the Miami relatives can't say.  None of them are employed.  So
tell us, just how are the Miami relatives supporting themselves, since none of them
have a job?  "Someone" is obviously hiding in the shadows here, and pulling the
strings, and paying the Gonzalez's bills...


June


 What exactly did the Miami family do to demonstrate that they were fit
 caretakers besides buying (with their seemingly endless supply
 of cash) Elian everything he wanted?

 And Marisleysis constantly getting admitted to a psych ward of the local
 hospital due to 'stress' (conveniently when things weren't going their
 way, or when it was demanded they turn over Elian to
 authorities)...who has been
 paying her hospitalization bills (and presumably medication bills)?

 If she is so emotionally and mentally fragile, she's hardly fit
 to assume the role of Elian's mother...

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[Ynr Chyldz Wyld]

From: "Kris Millegan" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 This drama is a public spectacle that has been mostly orchestrated by forces
 that hold much sway in the Cuban community, that being corruption, the CIA,
 mobsters and narcotic traffickers, including such folks as the Bush Crime
 family.

And these same forces probably go a long way to explain why the unemployed Miami
relatives seem to have an endless supply of cash, and can afford not only a house,
but to jump on a plane to DC on a moment's notice, and remain there today, at the
start of the work week, when the rest of us have jobs to go to...

Probably explains why the 'fisherman' Donato Dalyrimple can afford to hang around
the Gonzalez household day in and day out (and is now presumably up in DC), instead
of going out to fish.  I've never seen a 'fisherman' do so little fishing...I
suspect whatever living Dalyrimple makes from his boat has little to do with nets,
rods, or reels


June

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[Ynr Chyldz Wyld]

From: "Jim Condit Jr" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 I hope you're not believing
 the #$% polls the Big Networks are putting out about 2 out of 3 people in
 America supporting the Clinton/Reno/Castro commando raid against the Miami
 family. What #$$% -- and how come so FEW of the long time conspiracy sleuths
 on this list seem to be upset by such OVERT lies by the Ruling Elite? As I
 said, Party on, Dudes! Jim Condit Jr.

Perhaps you live your life in a "Wayne's World" fantasy, but the rest of us
don't

No, we don't rely on the media...we talk to the people we know, coworkers, etc...
and by and large, everyone supports Elian being returned to his father -- a FACT
that sticks in your craw.

The only equivocation one hears from the Jane and John Does in the street is
that perhaps the MANNER in which Elian was taken was flawed, but even then most
people admit that the Miami relatives were at fault, and had created a situation
where no other course of action was possible.


June

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[name AOL USER]

In a message dated 4/24/00 9:08:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 I hope you're not believing
   the #$% polls the Big Networks are putting out about 2 out of 3 people
in
   America supporting the Clinton/Reno/Castro commando raid against the
Miami
   family. What #$$% -- and how come so FEW of the long time conspiracy
 sleuths
   on this list seem to be upset by such OVERT lies by the Ruling Elite? As
I
   said, Party on, Dudes! Jim Condit Jr.

  Perhaps you live your life in a "Wayne's World" fantasy, but the rest of us
  don't

  No, we don't rely on the media...we talk to the people we know, coworkers,
 etc...
  and by and large, everyone supports Elian being returned to his father --
a
 FACT
  that sticks in your craw.

  The only equivocation one hears from the Jane and John Does in the street
is
  that perhaps the MANNER in which Elian was taken was flawed, but even then
 most
  people admit that the Miami relatives were at fault, and had created a
 situation
  where no other course of action was possible.



Two members of the Miami family were criminals, and had involvement with
weapons. Had Reno allowed her people to go in unarmed, she would have
derelict in her duties.
The severity of the methods was brought on by the family itself.

I concur...in discussions around town I have yet to find a single person who
thought the kid should stay with the family (about 30 people) (of course the
results might be different in a Latin area)

The family, I think, was trying an "adoption by press" process since there is
NO way they could legally adopt this kid, even if the real father was dead
too.  I say no legal process, because any court that had the kid's real
interests at heart would have yanked him out of there real fast. But, there
was a shot of winning the public opinion.

It's sad that so many people are using the Press and manipulating it to their
own ends.

It may have backfired here.

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[Kris Millegan]

In a message dated 4/24/00 2:23:51 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

It's a natural part of being human. Called compassion and giving a damn.



Tara



When truth needs a voice, silence lies.

 So why diidn't the relatives just give or even let the father visit his son,
instead of keep moving the goalposts?

Irrationaility is the only thing consistent with your compassion.

Om
K

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[Kris Millegan]

In a message dated 4/24/00 8:03:02 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

The American people are sheep!  They are gradually being turned into a
police state and don't even realize it

We have been a akin to a police  state for years, where ya been? The family
in Miami should have returned the child to his father.

Your are being played by your short hairs.
Om
K

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[Bill Richer]

In a message dated 4/24/00 7:37:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 n a message dated 4/24/00 10:03:02 AM Central Daylight Time,
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

   She didn't ask for this
   situation, it came about without her having asked for it and she
   provided a lifeline for the child when he had just seen his mother
   drown. 


  Actually, she and her family DID ask for it.
  They refused to turn the boy over to his father when their temporary
custody
  was revoked...clearly this family and professional hanger-on Donato like
the
  limelight a little too much,

  Bill.

Bill:
 Haven't you forgotten that Clinton and his Administration lies till
there ain't no tomorrow!  The media backs them up and now you are too?  Who's
side you on?  The court date was coming, it should have waited till then.
Anyone who says that the gestapo had the right to go in is stupid or on their
side!

Bill Richer
Vietnam Era vet

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[William Shannon]

In a message dated 4/24/00 7:23:21 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

 You would be!  You of course read what Castro's Daughter said who know's
more
 than me or you? 

And who certainly has her own agenda.
Her propaganda is as distasteful as anyones...she's a bitter woman who is
pandering to the Cuban-American right.

Bill.

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[Bill Richer]

In a message dated 4/24/00 8:29:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  You would be!  You of course read what Castro's Daughter said who know's
  more
   than me or you? 

  And who certainly has her own agenda.
  Her propaganda is as distasteful as anyones...she's a bitter woman who is
  pandering to the Cuban-American right.

  Bill.

And exactly what are you for?  She has a right to be mad and against
Communism!  You say things but never say what you are for!  You sound like
Clinton Administration!

Bill

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[William Shannon]

In a message dated 4/24/00 7:32:37 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

 And exactly what are you for?  She has a right to be mad and against
 Communism!  You say things but never say what you are for!  You sound like
 Clinton Administration! 

What am I for? That's an open-ended question that would require reams of
paper for me to answer...
In THIS case I'm for Elian to be with his father wherever his father wants to
take him. And I'm for re-examining our policy towards Cuba while we're at it.
It's time to stop allowing the breakaway bananna-republic of South Florida to
dictate our policy. If we're going to trade with China, Vietnam...we should
also end the embargo of Cuba.
Bill.

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[Bill Richer]

In a message dated 4/24/00 8:40:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 What am I for? That's an open-ended question that would require reams of
  paper for me to answer...
  In THIS case I'm for Elian to be with his father wherever his father wants
 to
  take him. And I'm for re-examining our policy towards Cuba while we're at
it.

  It's time to stop allowing the breakaway bananna-republic of South Florida
 to
  dictate our policy. If we're going to trade with China, Vietnam...we should
  also end the embargo of Cuba.
  Bill.

Bill your a fool, we should be thinking Of USA !  Not trade with any country!
The way this country is trading with other countries is to close down
factories and send others out of USA!  Where are you Bill!?


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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[William Shannon]

In a message dated 4/24/00 7:45:00 PM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

 Bill your a fool, we should be thinking Of USA !  Not trade with any
country!
 The way this country is trading with other countries is to close down
 factories and send others out of USA!  Where are you Bill!? 

I'm a fool? (FYI, that oughtta' read "you're" and not "your") but I'm the
fool, right?
Perhaps we ought to stop trading with everybody, but IF we're going to trade
with other communist regimes, we shouldn't exclude Cuba simply because the
rabble in S.Florida tell us to. If you want to stop all international trade,
OK...that's a different matter with it's own set of problems (and benefits).
Where am I you ask? Chicago...if it matters.

Bill.

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[Ynr Chyldz Wyld]

From: "Alamaine" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Yes, and I've also seen the newsreels of 'poor' little Elian at home with his
 caring and sharing relatives, at play, guns (more than one type toy)(if not an
 arrow) in hand, having a great time.

Very often shown outside playing after midnight, too...hardly demonstating that the 
Miami relatives were competent caretakers of the
child...


June

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[William Shannon]

In a message dated 4/23/00 9:10:17 AM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Very often shown outside playing after midnight, too...hardly demonstating
that the Miami relatives were competent caretakers of the
 child... 


Yeah, and what was he doing awake during the pre-dawn raid? Did he ever sleep?
Clearly he wasn't attending school during his stay with the drunkard...Did he
recieve psychological therapy for the loss of his mom?
What exactly did the Miami family do to demonstrate that they were fit
caretakers besides buying (with their seemingly endless supply of cash) Elian
everything he wanted?
Bill.

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[William Bacon]

Who financed the father's trip from cuba? Who is paying the lawyer?

visit my web site at  http://www.voicenet.com/~wbacon

On Sun, 23 Apr 2000, William Shannon wrote:

 In a message dated 4/23/00 9:10:17 AM Central Daylight Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Very often shown outside playing after midnight, too...hardly demonstating
 that the Miami relatives were competent caretakers of the
  child... 


 Yeah, and what was he doing awake during the pre-dawn raid? Did he ever sleep?
 Clearly he wasn't attending school during his stay with the drunkard...Did he
 recieve psychological therapy for the loss of his mom?
 What exactly did the Miami family do to demonstrate that they were fit
 caretakers besides buying (with their seemingly endless supply of cash) Elian
 everything he wanted?
 Bill.

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 nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[Jim Condit Jr]

I object to the kind of smear tactics against the Miami Gonzales family
employed here by "Bill Bacon" --- both sides are being funded by friends
with money -- so what? The Marisleysius press conference today and the
Sunday Morning shows displayed the difference between the two sides: The
Miami Relatives -- passionate, sincere, normal, sometimes misspeak
themselves, heartbroken, truth-loving, open to the Media and the World ---
The Greg Craig Thugs of all persuasions: dead-eyed, guarded answers,
ruthless, Castro-friendly, police-state friendly, obvious liars, hiding the
Dad, and almost certainly DRUGGING Elian. That's why they can't produce him
in public. Poor little kid! . . . There is something SERIOUSLY wrong in the
spiritual realm with the character of Americans who can't see the difference
between those "should-be-in-jail-for-life" evil THUGS Greg Craig, Reno, and
Clinton -- and the good and great Americans Marisleysius Gonzales and Donato
Darylrimple. All I know is this -- the supporters of Donato and Marisleysius
must take over the direction of this nation, completely excluding from
public influence or power the THUG Greg Craig faction. Jim Condit Jr.

 -Original Message-
 From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
 Behalf Of William Bacon
 Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2000 12:56 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style


 Who financed the father's trip from cuba? Who is paying the lawyer?

 visit my web site at  http://www.voicenet.com/~wbacon

 On Sun, 23 Apr 2000, William Shannon wrote:

  In a message dated 4/23/00 9:10:17 AM Central Daylight Time,
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
   Very often shown outside playing after midnight,
 too...hardly demonstating
  that the Miami relatives were competent caretakers of the
   child... 
 
 
  Yeah, and what was he doing awake during the pre-dawn raid? Did
 he ever sleep?
  Clearly he wasn't attending school during his stay with the
 drunkard...Did he
  recieve psychological therapy for the loss of his mom?
  What exactly did the Miami family do to demonstrate that they were fit
  caretakers besides buying (with their seemingly endless supply
 of cash) Elian
  everything he wanted?
  Bill.
 
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  DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
  ==
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 Proselytizing propagandic
  screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!
 These are sordid
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 said, CTRL
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  Om
 

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A HREF="http:/

Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[William Shannon]

In a message dated 4/23/00 2:54:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 The Marisleysius press conference today and the
 Sunday Morning shows displayed the difference between the two sides: 

...and also the value of getting an education!
Gonzales spoke like a 6 year old...no wonder she and Elian got along so well.
And she spoke, or rambled on, for 30+ minutes...what's the deal with
Cubans...Fidel rambles for hours on a regular basis...looks like Marisleisis
is picking up where he left off...

The Greg Craig Thugs of all persuasions: dead-eyed, guarded answers,
ruthless, Castro-friendly, police-state friendly, obvious liars, hiding the
Dad, and almost certainly DRUGGING Elian. That's why they can't produce him
in public. Poor little kid! . . .

Oh OK...sure...The only reason you think the kid is "drugged" is because you
are repeating some of the more outlandish accusations of the Miami family,
what proof do you have? And really, what evidence? That he is smiling to be
with his father?
ANd the reason he hasn't been "displayed" in public is because, unlike the
thug family from Miami, his father has his best interests at heart and is
allowing him some much needed RR...outside of the eyes of the world.

and the good and great Americans Marisleysius Gonzales and Donato
Darylrimple.

That's hilarious!
You mean 2 of the Miami thugs who refused to hand over the boy in a peaceful
manner and therefore forced the feds to take the action that they did?
The "fine folk" who haven't taken Elian to school in months? Who produced
that horrible hostage-style tape? Who bribed and brainwashed the kid?
Yeah, good and great Americans...who cared not one whit for what was best for
Elian.

Bill.

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[Ynr Chyldz Wyld]

From: "William Shannon" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 What exactly did the Miami family do to demonstrate that they were fit
 caretakers besides buying (with their seemingly endless supply of cash) Elian
 everything he wanted?

And Marisleysis constantly getting admitted to a psych ward of the local
hospital due to 'stress' (conveniently when things weren't going their
way, or when it was demanded they turn over Elian to authorities)...who has been
paying her hospitalization bills (and presumably medication bills)?

If she is so emotionally and mentally fragile, she's hardly fit to assume the
role of Elian's mother...


June

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matters
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spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[William Shannon]

In a message dated 4/23/00 6:21:23 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 If she is so emotionally and mentally fragile, she's hardly fit to assume
the
 role of Elian's mother... 

And if you caught her performance in DC yesterday you'd see that she is
verging on insanity...rambling...and her level of education too is a concern.
We have enough brain-dead parents...she can't even convert her thoughts to
words without cringe-inducing errors of syntax and grammar...

Bill.

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matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[Jim Condit Jr]

To "Bill Shannon": Oh! Tough toe nails! You had to listen to truth for 30
minutes from Marisleysius! She was plenty educated for a first generation
Cuban American and, since your knocking Cuban Americans so freely, I'd sure
rather listen to her slightly latinized English than the perfect English
spoken by all the diabolically-oriented lefty-pro-communist Khazar Jews who
inhabit and run "our" newsmedia -- for heavens sakes, I've begin to wonder
if my television has turned into the "electronic Jew" in these last few
years. This is the same faction that has supported and kept Castro in power
since 1959, and who deliberately lied and told the world Castro was a
"democrat" and a "Catholic" until he was ensconced in power. How the
leftwing Khazar Jews love their diabolical creation, communism! WHen I was
going through high school I knew that the Big MEdia and a lot of liberals
were subtly soft on Communism -- but the scales from my eyes lifted -- and
now -- along with my forbears of the last 1000 years know why!

I'm charging that the Clinton/Castro/Craig thugs drugged Elian immediately.
News flash for you: the picture of Elian with Dad (who's also in a tough
spot) show a bandaid right over where an IV would have been started -- of
course, that picture's under heavy attack for being doctored, I'm sure to
your dismay -- so I won't rest my case on that, but I mention it. The burden
of PROOF is on the federal kidnappers. PRODUCE THE BOY! THey CAN'T. Produce
the BATMAN shirt Elian is wearing in the Craig Happy photos -- they're
probably scrambling for one now. Everyone I know who's not brain dead,
including medical personnel I know, said immediately that the kid was being
drugged. Rush Limbaugh said on Friday that if they took the kid they would
immediately drug him. You, obviously, are not the least bit disturbed that
the boy has disappeared.

The rest of your comments are too ridiculous to address --- yeah they're
going to let him go to school through this crisis so that the illegal
Occupation Government running America could snatch him there - supported by
"Americans" like your type! Right. Also, some kids don't start 1st grade
till age 7. YOu call Donato a thug -- the guy who rescued Elian from the
ocean. You're comments are not serious enough to waste any more time on. Jim
Condit Jr.

 -Original Message-
 From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
 Behalf Of William Shannon
 Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2000 6:14 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style


 In a message dated 4/23/00 2:54:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  The Marisleysius press conference today and the
  Sunday Morning shows displayed the difference between the two sides: 

 ...and also the value of getting an education!
 Gonzales spoke like a 6 year old...no wonder she and Elian got
 along so well.
 And she spoke, or rambled on, for 30+ minutes...what's the deal with
 Cubans...Fidel rambles for hours on a regular basis...looks like
 Marisleisis
 is picking up where he left off...

 The Greg Craig Thugs of all persuasions: dead-eyed, guarded answers,
 ruthless, Castro-friendly, police-state friendly, obvious liars,
 hiding the
 Dad, and almost certainly DRUGGING Elian. That's why they can't
 produce him
 in public. Poor little kid! . . .

 Oh OK...sure...The only reason you think the kid is "drugged" is
 because you
 are repeating some of the more outlandish accusations of the Miami family,
 what proof do you have? And really, what evidence? That he is
 smiling to be
 with his father?
 ANd the reason he hasn't been "displayed" in public is because, unlike the
 thug family from Miami, his father has his best interests at heart and is
 allowing him some much needed RR...outside of the eyes of the world.

 and the good and great Americans Marisleysius Gonzales and Donato
 Darylrimple.

 That's hilarious!
 You mean 2 of the Miami thugs who refused to hand over the boy in
 a peaceful
 manner and therefore forced the feds to take the action that they did?
 The "fine folk" who haven't taken Elian to school in months? Who produced
 that horrible hostage-style tape? Who bribed and brainwashed the kid?
 Yeah, good and great Americans...who cared not one whit for what
 was best for
 Elian.

 Bill.

 A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing
 propagandic
 screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These
 are sordid
 matters
 and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections
 and outright
 frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and
 minor effects
 spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always
 suggests to readers;
 be wary of what you r

Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[Jim Condit Jr]

Where are you coming from, "Bill Shannon" -- I guess we saw different press
conferences. Marisleysius was magnificent. The mental balance of someone who
calls her mentally imbalanced based on that press conference is what's a
question in my mind. Jim Condit Jr.

 -Original Message-
 From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
 Behalf Of William Shannon
 Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2000 8:26 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style


 In a message dated 4/23/00 6:21:23 PM Central Daylight Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  If she is so emotionally and mentally fragile, she's hardly
 fit to assume
 the
  role of Elian's mother... 

 And if you caught her performance in DC yesterday you'd see that she is
 verging on insanity...rambling...and her level of education too
 is a concern.
 We have enough brain-dead parents...she can't even convert her thoughts to
 words without cringe-inducing errors of syntax and grammar...

 Bill.

 A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing
 propagandic
 screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These
 are sordid
 matters
 and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections
 and outright
 frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and
 minor effects
 spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
 gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always
 suggests to readers;
 be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
 nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
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CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[Kris Millegan]

In a message dated 4/23/00 7:51:16 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

This has got to be the strangest Conspiracy Research List in the World,
most

of its longest standing members seem to always trust the government no

matter how outrageous their actions, i.e. Party on, dudes. Jim Condit Jr.



 -Original Message-
No, I believe that you misread the situation because if an irrational
response to Communism. What you are experiencing is you mind be whipsawed to
attention by external forces. Balance comes from within. The velveeta
revolution card is being played. Yes, their is much conspiracy arraign but
your folk's whipped emotives surrounding the Elian case are straight
Cheez-whiz, lots of air.

The news media is in no way free. Yes, Clinton and Reno are flawed, tragic
characters but if you truly believe that they rule their own actions, you
have been listening to the deep story.

This drama is a public spectacle that has been mostly orchestrated by forces
that hold much sway in the Cuban community, that being corruption, the CIA,
mobsters and narcotic traffickers, including such folks as the Bush Crime
family.

Why is there no discussion in the media about Bush's membership in the Order
of Skull and Bones and its death-heads symbols and its foreign and Illuminati
origins.

The Free Press is not free, so what the #@() are you listening to what they
are saying. They don't want your mind just your . . . .

The Elian case is a slick electioneering farce aimed at hardening ignorance
and fear into votes and supposed votes.

Ain't no good guys and no bad guys, just "their" guys - Bush, Gore,
Buchannon, McCain. And just what in the $*( to you expect one of these
"leaders" to do.

There are real conspiracies out there. Look before you leap.

MHO
Om
K
-
Aloha, He'Ping,
Om, Shalom, Salaam.
Em Hotep, Peace Be,
All My Relations.
Omnia Bona Bonis,
Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
Amen.
Roads End

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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Child-Abuse, Clinton Style

[Alamaine]

Yes, and I've also seen the newsreels of 'poor' little Elian at home with his
caring and sharing relatives, at play, guns (more than one type toy)(if not an
arrow) in hand, having a great time.  Wasn't too caring nor sharing with the
little stuffed animal his female relative tried to pose him with, though.  And,
I've also read the accounts of the Uncle (Tio?) who averred he'd lay down his
life for the little feller.  And, I still don't get *why* the government didn't
put him in neutral custody long before now (except for {read my closing}).
Recall:  he's a 6 y/old immigrant from a foreign country, status undetermined
inasmuch as Momma and boyfriend never made it.  The really strange thing is
this 'judge' who claims that a 6 y/old can request political asylum ... I have
yet to hear the little feller render his definitions of the terms, 'political'
or 'asylum'.   This 'judge' must have fed his kids ice cream and cake for three
meals a day ... shoot ... if a 6 y/old can request asylum, determining daily
dietary needs must be as difficult as blinking, what?  Then, of course, Reno
went to work to nullify THAT political 'correctness'.

If any American kid was put in similar circumstances any where around the
world, you'd bet the bureaucrats would be thumping desk.  If your kid was being
given 'sanctuary' in Iraq or Iran or China or even some of the more friendly
countries, would YOU be willing to defect or to allow some 'relative' to keep
the kid (especially in the land of 'Miami Vice' or 'Scarface')(yeah, yeah,
HollyWeird but that's all they gots to go on)?  But, seriously -- what parent
of all of you would just roll over for an adversary of the U.S.?  Their
countries are as great to them as ours is to us, no?

I hear Castro's really pleased now.  Can't wait to see -- in the coming weeks --
how 'pleased' he's become.  THIS is the real shame:  tug 'o war with the tyke
to make political points --- WWWAY over the kid's head (and pay grade).

AER


 For those who have seen the photo of the G-man in riot gear waiving the
 barrel of his machine gun just inches from the terrified boy, there's
 now
 little doubt who the true abusers of Elian Gonzalez are: President
 Clinton,
 Attorney General Reno and the officials who went along with an assault
 plan
 that put Elian's life in danger; a plan that was guaranteed to frighten
 him
 out of his wits.

 Surely no qualified psychologist would suggest that Elian won't carry
 the
 emotional scars of that moment with him for the rest of his life.



AER
~~~
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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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