Re: [CTRL] Question about list Rules

[Jim Condit Jr.]

 -Caveat Lector-

Whoa, Teo1000 -- that's a bombshell -- I mean the whole list being limited
to 100 posts. I think the List Manager should add that to little
explanatory paragraph at the bottom of each post  -- for I had no idea. If
that's the case, then I will quit posting "debate" type responses and limit
to research related stuff. Although, quite frankly, the list seems to be
more debate than research tips (that will make nurev happy!). That's why I
joined in.  Jim Condit Jr.

On Friday, December 11, 1998 9:55 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> Kris is the one who referred people to the site in question (Nizkor)which
> debunks much anti-jew propaganda particularly the holocaust revisionists.
> This list is limited to 100 posts per day total, for all members.
> Teo1000
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid
matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
> 
> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Om

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Question about list Rules

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

Kris is the one who referred people to the site in question (Nizkor)which
debunks much anti-jew propaganda particularly the holocaust revisionists.
This list is limited to 100 posts per day total, for all members.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Question about list Rules

[Jim Condit Jr.]

 -Caveat Lector-

Laura S. --- I don't know what you're getting at, I've agreed not to argue
the one side of that one issue because those who do the work to keep up the
list ask that no one do so. There are plenty of URL's arguing that one side
of that one issue, and even Theo (I think) mentioned one even though he was
referring people to it to discredit, in his judgement, a certain report.
Also, what do you mean limited to 100 posts a day? Was that sarcasm or is
that the limit for everyone on the list? Just asking. Jim Condit Jr.

On Wednesday, December 09, 1998 10:40 AM, Laura Shipton
[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> Jim Condit Jr. wrote:
>
> >  -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > Please see my post on List Rules to Roadsend if you get a chance ---
for
> > heaven's sakes, there's plenty of URL's, but I dare not list them lest
I
> > get break list rules! Best Wishes. Jim Condit Jr.
> >
> > On Tuesday, December 08, 1998 12:48 PM, Laura Shipton
> > [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
> > >  -Caveat Lector-
> > >
> > > Talks of the Holocaust from those that do not want
> > > to do their research and check out the time before
> > > WW1 - that just want to try to do it from a propoganda
> > > view point and prey on emotions without listing urls and
> > > the research and documentation that was used is as bad
> > > as Japan trying to re-write their history.
> > >
> > > Maybe I have something there!  By using the term "politically
> > > correct" could people take issue with the American Goverment
> > > in that it is trying to re-write history.  That would also mean that
> > > the fact that they want to go after the encription laws would mean
> > > that they can make history by making it very hard for us to get on
> > > any other countries web pages.  To find out what is happening in
> > > other countries by checking their comments and news.  To edit
> > > our very posts and e-mails when they go to other countries.
> > >
> > > So are some people in America not only trying to re-write history
> > > (and the way it is taught in school) but to make history into the
> > > version that they want?
> > > Laura
> > > aka The Pied Piper
>
> Hey you,
> We are limited to 100 posts a day on this list!  To try to use it as
a
> emotional sounding post with out urls is boring and frustrating.  Now
> if you want to try to say that the gas that they used was something
> other that Zoron or that what they called Zoron had a different
> composition then - that would be a conspiracy.  If you want to try
> to find out what company provided that gas and what their name
> is now days - or do you work for that company?
>
> another thought - if you are trying to say that you can not do
> decent research because of the hate laws!  That is a conspiracy.
> Hope who ever kept Japan from re-writing their history takes
> notice of what is actually happening.  Still and all if they believe the
> study history should be kept from the people - like Canada seems to
> believe - Well.
>
> Now this is from another thread and does seem to show a conspiracy,
> is well researched With URLS that allow others to research as well.
> See if you can rise up to this standard and keep your un-researched
> emotions to yourself.  Another thought.  If Bush Sr. can get a higher
> level education in Two years (because of daddy's money) What of
> our "Professionals?"  How many of them have been slid through
> school so that they will play someone's tune when they have that
> Title??  Who has tested them?  What of our educators, what real
> training, education have they had?  But they have a degree!  Get real
> who were their teachers, professors, instructors?  Can they pass a
> test that a independent organization would give?
> And People Like That May Be Teaching Your Children,
> May Have Taught You!
>  The Unauthorized Biography of George Bush
>http://www.radix.net/~tarpley/bushb.htm#Table
> They will not release his grades, Wonder Why?
>
> From another thread*Well researched!*
> From:
> Franklin Wayne Poley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Tue 18:16
>
>  Subject:
> [CTRL] [UA-C] FC: Canada loves its "hate crime" legislation (fwd)
>  To:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 19:41:54 -0400
> From: Michael Gurstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [UA-C] FC: Canada loves its "hate crime" legislation (fwd)
>
> Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 18:21:38 -0500
> From: Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: FC: Canada loves its "hate crime" legislation
>
> 
>
> From: "Lisa S. Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Canada loves their hate crime legislation!
>
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 14:04:19 -0500
>
> Speech Cops of the Great White North
> Dateline: 12/6/98
> Every political sys

Re: [CTRL] Question about list Rules

[Laura Shipton]

 -Caveat Lector-

Jim Condit Jr. wrote:

>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> Please see my post on List Rules to Roadsend if you get a chance --- for
> heaven's sakes, there's plenty of URL's, but I dare not list them lest I
> get break list rules! Best Wishes. Jim Condit Jr.
>
> On Tuesday, December 08, 1998 12:48 PM, Laura Shipton
> [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
> >  -Caveat Lector-
> >
> > Talks of the Holocaust from those that do not want
> > to do their research and check out the time before
> > WW1 - that just want to try to do it from a propoganda
> > view point and prey on emotions without listing urls and
> > the research and documentation that was used is as bad
> > as Japan trying to re-write their history.
> >
> > Maybe I have something there!  By using the term "politically
> > correct" could people take issue with the American Goverment
> > in that it is trying to re-write history.  That would also mean that
> > the fact that they want to go after the encription laws would mean
> > that they can make history by making it very hard for us to get on
> > any other countries web pages.  To find out what is happening in
> > other countries by checking their comments and news.  To edit
> > our very posts and e-mails when they go to other countries.
> >
> > So are some people in America not only trying to re-write history
> > (and the way it is taught in school) but to make history into the
> > version that they want?
> > Laura
> > aka The Pied Piper

Hey you,
We are limited to 100 posts a day on this list!  To try to use it as a
emotional sounding post with out urls is boring and frustrating.  Now
if you want to try to say that the gas that they used was something
other that Zoron or that what they called Zoron had a different
composition then - that would be a conspiracy.  If you want to try
to find out what company provided that gas and what their name
is now days - or do you work for that company?

another thought - if you are trying to say that you can not do
decent research because of the hate laws!  That is a conspiracy.
Hope who ever kept Japan from re-writing their history takes
notice of what is actually happening.  Still and all if they believe the
study history should be kept from the people - like Canada seems to
believe - Well.

Now this is from another thread and does seem to show a conspiracy,
is well researched With URLS that allow others to research as well.
See if you can rise up to this standard and keep your un-researched
emotions to yourself.  Another thought.  If Bush Sr. can get a higher
level education in Two years (because of daddy's money) What of
our "Professionals?"  How many of them have been slid through
school so that they will play someone's tune when they have that
Title??  Who has tested them?  What of our educators, what real
training, education have they had?  But they have a degree!  Get real
who were their teachers, professors, instructors?  Can they pass a
test that a independent organization would give?
And People Like That May Be Teaching Your Children,
May Have Taught You!
 The Unauthorized Biography of George Bush
   http://www.radix.net/~tarpley/bushb.htm#Table
They will not release his grades, Wonder Why?

From another thread*Well researched!*
From:
Franklin Wayne Poley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Tue 18:16

 Subject:
[CTRL] [UA-C] FC: Canada loves its "hate crime" legislation (fwd)
 To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




 -Caveat Lector-

-- Forwarded message --
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 19:41:54 -0400
From: Michael Gurstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [UA-C] FC: Canada loves its "hate crime" legislation (fwd)

Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 18:21:38 -0500
From: Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: FC: Canada loves its "hate crime" legislation



From: "Lisa S. Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Canada loves their hate crime legislation!

Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 14:04:19 -0500

Speech Cops of the Great White North
Dateline: 12/6/98
Every political system has its eccentricities - oddities that become so
much a part of the landscape that people living within the system lose
track of the weirdness. In the case of Canada, it sometimes seems that
the country's political elite is made up of the stiff-necked faculty of
a second-tier liberal arts college, and every session of the legislature
is a meeting of some uptight academic discipline board out to teach
those naughty frat boys a lesson.
The latest emanation from Canada's disciplinarians is a "hate speech
" bill that
might well have been pulled from the University of Wisconsin's
politically correct student handbook. The proposal would amend the
Criminal Code of Canada to make it illegal to possess material "for the
purpose of distribution to promote hate.

Re: [CTRL] Question about list Rules

[Jim Condit Jr.]

 -Caveat Lector-

Please see my post on List Rules to Roadsend if you get a chance --- for
heaven's sakes, there's plenty of URL's, but I dare not list them lest I
get break list rules! Best Wishes. Jim Condit Jr.



On Tuesday, December 08, 1998 12:48 PM, Laura Shipton
[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> Talks of the Holocaust from those that do not want
> to do their research and check out the time before
> WW1 - that just want to try to do it from a propoganda
> view point and prey on emotions without listing urls and
> the research and documentation that was used is as bad
> as Japan trying to re-write their history.
>
> Maybe I have something there!  By using the term "politically
> correct" could people take issue with the American Goverment
> in that it is trying to re-write history.  That would also mean that
> the fact that they want to go after the encription laws would mean
> that they can make history by making it very hard for us to get on
> any other countries web pages.  To find out what is happening in
> other countries by checking their comments and news.  To edit
> our very posts and e-mails when they go to other countries.
>
> So are some people in America not only trying to re-write history
> (and the way it is taught in school) but to make history into the
> version that they want?
> Laura
> aka The Pied Piper
>
> --
> 
> my ICQ# 14484977
> Education: A House of Mirrors
http://members.xoom.com/ThePiedPiper/Intro2.htm
> Legislation and what we are allowing by Letting our
> children be labeled as only ADD or ADHD
> http://www.cec.sped.org/faq/gt-ld.htm (New 16 Oct 98)
>
> 3) Uncover Myths in Education
> Myth 1 That Home Schoolers Need to be under the
> Umbrella of a Church or Religious Group.
> http://www.home-ed-press.com/INF/FREE/hsinfo_far1.html
> **
> 1. Take the 60-day No Aspartame Test and send us your case history.
> Mission Possible International
> 5950-H State Bridge Rd. #215
> Duluth, GA 30097 USA
> 2. Tell your doctor and all of your friends!
> 3. Return Asparcidal food to the store.
> (anything with Monsanto's NutraSweet/Equal/Spoonful/Benevia/NatraTaste)
> VISIT http://www.dorway.com/possible.html Get links to over 30 sites
> VISIT http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/   ..FAQs & Cases
> VISIT http://www.notmilk.com Exposing Bovine Growth Hormone
> Disability and Death are not acceptable costs of business!
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid
matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
> 
> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Om

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Question about list Rules

[Laura Shipton]

 -Caveat Lector-

Talks of the Holocaust from those that do not want
to do their research and check out the time before
WW1 - that just want to try to do it from a propoganda
view point and prey on emotions without listing urls and
the research and documentation that was used is as bad
as Japan trying to re-write their history.

Maybe I have something there!  By using the term "politically
correct" could people take issue with the American Goverment
in that it is trying to re-write history.  That would also mean that
the fact that they want to go after the encription laws would mean
that they can make history by making it very hard for us to get on
any other countries web pages.  To find out what is happening in
other countries by checking their comments and news.  To edit
our very posts and e-mails when they go to other countries.

So are some people in America not only trying to re-write history
(and the way it is taught in school) but to make history into the
version that they want?
Laura
aka The Pied Piper

--

my ICQ# 14484977
Education: A House of Mirrors http://members.xoom.com/ThePiedPiper/Intro2.htm
Legislation and what we are allowing by Letting our
children be labeled as only ADD or ADHD
http://www.cec.sped.org/faq/gt-ld.htm (New 16 Oct 98)

3) Uncover Myths in Education
Myth 1 That Home Schoolers Need to be under the
Umbrella of a Church or Religious Group.
http://www.home-ed-press.com/INF/FREE/hsinfo_far1.html
**
1. Take the 60-day No Aspartame Test and send us your case history.
Mission Possible International
5950-H State Bridge Rd. #215
Duluth, GA 30097 USA
2. Tell your doctor and all of your friends!
3. Return Asparcidal food to the store.
(anything with Monsanto's NutraSweet/Equal/Spoonful/Benevia/NatraTaste)
VISIT http://www.dorway.com/possible.html Get links to over 30 sites
VISIT http://www.holisticmed.com/aspartame/   ..FAQs & Cases
VISIT http://www.notmilk.com Exposing Bovine Growth Hormone
Disability and Death are not acceptable costs of business!

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Question about list Rules

[RoadsEnd]

 -Caveat Lector-

Howdy Jim,

So sorry that you feel the term irrational is name-calling.  Irrational is a
descriptive adjective that denotes something not based on reason, more on
unfounded fears.

The Leuchter report is not based on factual material, it is irrational. It has
been debunked entirely. There is much on the net, do a little research.

And, yes, I am the list manager, for what it is worth. It sure don't pay no
bills.;-)

It seems you are inexperienced in propaganda and its uses.

I would suggest that many of the deniers are shills shouting, so that
reactionary shills will try and find 'grounds' for restricting liberty. Please
read Machiavelli.

Look behind the 'offered' proxy.

Yes, I do not care for the restrictive laws in those countries, but then you
might understand that those countries are not republics under the US
Constitution and the governments, there, routinely, as a matter of course,
'censor'.

Refutation does not automatically stop propaganda. The news media, the ads and
most of the invested culture are a coccon of politick directed at our very
sovereignty.

So if you care to get lost into the directed hate and become one with the
'directed' mob, be my guest, but the whole non-issue has already been
discussed ad naseum.

And the discussion does not attract the best scholars. So stick and stay and
play by the rules(you may learn something), start your own or go, I really
dunna care.

Om
K

In a message dated 12/8/98 2:54:21 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>
>
>Hey, Roadsend, you're "refutation" of the Leuchter report site is
>
>inaccessible as of this moment. Maybe it will open up later and I'll
>
>definitely look at it. But your mindset is showing, my friend, when you
>
>resort to calling my post irrational. I'm changed by evidence (of which I
>
>noticed you included none in your post), not intimidated by name calling.
>
>
>
>Does it all disturb you that it is a potential "crime" to pass out the
>
>Leuchter Report in Canada, Germany, France, and numerous other countries?
>
>If it had been refuted, I just don't think it would be banned in these
>
>countries.
>
>
>
>I'm waiting for my answer from the list manager, but I don't think this
>
>list is going to attract the best scholars and discussion if you allow an
>
>issue to be discussed, and then only allow one position to be defended. My
>
>recommendation would be to ban an issue altogether, or allow reasonable
>
>discussion of that issue. Jim Condit Jr.
-
Aloha, He'Ping,
Om, Shalom, Salaam.
Em Hotep, Peace Be,
Omnia Bona Bonis,
All My Relations.
Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
Amen.
Roads End
Kris

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Question about list Rules

[DIG Robert H. Sterling]

 -Caveat Lector-

<>

I was able to visit it earlier.  The evidence on the site is overwhelming.
Kudos again to Nizkor.



<>

It has been refuted, but agreed, ideas, even if false or wrong, should never
be a crime.



<>

The real reason this Holocaust-denial stuff has been excluded from this site
is not because it is false (which it is) and not because it is inflammatory
(which it is) but because many Holocaust denyers can't leave well enough
alone.  If someone wants to bring it up once and a while, fine.  Then bring up
the "evidence", and let it be debated.  What did end up happening was that the
Holocaust-denyers and the Jewish-conspiracy obsessed "conspiracy theorists"
began spamming CTRL with their blather.  It got real old real quick.  As far
as I'm concerned, the big sin here wasn't being false or dangerous, but being
boring.  People were leaving the list, and Roadsend finally took charge,
although he was clearly quite reluctant too.  As far as I'm concerned, he
should've took charge sooner and more forcefully, but that tells you he was
bending over backwards to allow the free exchange of ideas.

So there's your answer: don't blame Roadsend or CTRL for excluding the
Holocaust opinions you think are being silenced, blame the morons who promote
that view for doing all in their powers to discredit it.

Robert Sterling
Editor, The Konformist
http://www.konformist.com

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Question about list Rules

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/8/98 5:54:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< I'm waiting for my answer from the list manager, but I don't think this
 list is going to attract the best scholars and discussion if you allow an
 issue to be discussed, and then only allow one position to be defended. My
 recommendation would be to ban an issue altogether, or allow reasonable
 discussion of that issue. Jim Condit Jr.
  >>

It matters not what you think.  RoadsEnd (Kris Milligan) IS the list manager
and he decides what is discussed or not discussed here.  Bottom line, if you
don't like it, leave.  End of story.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Question about list Rules

[Jim Condit Jr.]

 -Caveat Lector-

Hey, Roadsend, you're "refutation" of the Leuchter report site is
inaccessible as of this moment. Maybe it will open up later and I'll
definitely look at it. But your mindset is showing, my friend, when you
resort to calling my post irrational. I'm changed by evidence (of which I
noticed you included none in your post), not intimidated by name calling.

Does it all disturb you that it is a potential "crime" to pass out the
Leuchter Report in Canada, Germany, France, and numerous other countries?
If it had been refuted, I just don't think it would be banned in these
countries.

I'm waiting for my answer from the list manager, but I don't think this
list is going to attract the best scholars and discussion if you allow an
issue to be discussed, and then only allow one position to be defended. My
recommendation would be to ban an issue altogether, or allow reasonable
discussion of that issue. Jim Condit Jr.

On Monday, December 07, 1998 10:38 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:RoadsEnd@A
OL.COM] wrote:
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> Yo,
> Yeah, i've heard and read the Leuchter report. It is not scientific and
if you
> had done any real research, you might find that it has been discredited
> bigtime.
>
> Your discussion is not rational. And your discernment is showing.
>
> Check-out the site and report posted below your message.
>
> Om
> K
>
> In a message dated 12/7/98 1:27:15 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >Let me get this straight. The list directions ban any discussion about
> >
> >whether the TV/Hollywood version of the Holocaust are true and accurate,
> >
> >but the list allows members to assert the disproven contention that
Zyklon
> >
> >B was used to gas people en masse during World War II. Has anyone on
this
> >
> >list ever heard of the Leuchter report? This is real scientific
research,
> >
> >and proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the buildings being passed
off
> >
> >as gas chambers at Auschwitz and several of the other camps were devoid
of
> >
> >traces of any poison gas. (This is not deny that millions were abused
and
> >
> >treated unjustly, and killed unjustly, during WWII by Hilter's Nazi
regime.
> >
> >I always say that even one person killed unjustly is too many,
especially
> >
> >if it is you.) Put for a list claiming to be involved in serious inquiry
of
> >
> >history, it seems to me that you either have to ban all discussion of a
> >
> >subject, or to allow rational discussion of that subject from all sides.
> >
> >Would anyone care to further explain this list's position on that point?
> =
> from:
> http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/leuchter/index.html
> http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/leuchter/index.html">Holocaust Denial
and
> the Leuchter Report: Index
> -
> The Leuchter Report: A Layman's Guide
> Holocaust Denial & The Big Lie
>
> 
>
> The attempt to justify an evil deed has perhaps more pernicious
> consequences than the evil deed itself. The justification of a past
> crime is the planting and cultivation of future crimes. Indeed, the
> repitition of a crime is sometimes part of a device of justification; we
> do it again and again to convince ourselves and others that it is a
> common thing and not an enormity. (Eric Hoffer, The Passionate State of
> Mind. New York: Harper & Brothers, 1954.)
>
> 
>
> .Introduction & Editorial Notes .Copyright Notice
> .Overview .Point, Counterpoint - Denial Claims Addressed .Disparities in
> Hydrocyanic Compound Levels
> .Explosive Property of Zyklon B & Furnace Proximity
> .Gas Chambers Could Not Have Been Opened Safely
> .The Extermination Chambers Were Actually Morgues
> .Impossible to Kill 6 Million People at Auschwitz
> .Doors of Gas Chambers Too Weak to Prevent Escape
> .They Would Not Have Used Zyklon-B for Gassing
> .The gas chambers were never sealed, or...
> .The gas would have killed everyone outside when ventilated
> .Where did all the ashes from the cremations go
> .People who dropped the gas into the gas chamber would have been killed
> by it
> .The Auschwitz death list doesn't show all those people were killed
> .Why would there be a swimming pool at a death camp
> .The high water table made it impossible to burn bodies in ditches
> .How did witnesses to the gassings survivei
> .Toxicity of fumes from a diesel engine
> .There were not enough Jews in Europe to account for six million victims
>
> .The "myth" of the Holocaust was created solely for the financial
> benefit of Israel .Leuchter's credibility .Leuchter's perjury in
> Canadian court
> .Leuchter's credibility among American prison admins .Research Sources &
> Other Useful Appendices .Recommended Reading
> .Glossary
> .Works Cited
>
>
> The most current plaintext version of Part One and Part Two of this FAQ
> is available via ftp.
>
> An online edition of the Leuchter Report itself is available from Ernst
> Zuendel's website.
>
>

Re: [CTRL] Question about list Rules

[Jim Condit Jr.]

 -Caveat Lector-

Dear Jerry,

I don't know why you quoted me in light of the unrelated comments you made
below the quote. I never commented on the killing of the homosexual out
west, nor in anyway attempted to uphold slavery. I also condemned without
hesitation "millions killed unjustly" by the Hitler/Nazi regime.

But when you get into the TV/Hollywood version of the Holocaust you now
move over into a condemation of the German people as a whole (I'm
Irish/Italian) and then onto a condemnation of the Catholic Church and
Christianity based on the "fact" that everyone in Germany knew about the
"gas chambers" and approved and joined in. This is what I am challenging.
If you are not familiar with the Leuchter report, and with the work of
David Cole (himself Jewish) in Auschwitz, then you really aren't prepared
to step up to the plate on this point.

Any type of poisen gas or Zyklon B leaves blue traces in the walls, as well
as traces of itself for hundreds of years. Fred Leuchter, an American ex
pert advisor to several states on death row gas chamber technology, was
paid to go to Auschwitz. He took samples off the current buildings at
Auschwitz in, I believe, 1986. Because of a sudden death in the family, he
was escorted out of the country (Poland, under commmunist occupation at
that time) by government officials who were trying to help him get back to
the funeral in the USA. The samples were given to a laboratory in, I
believe, one of the Carolinas who tested the scrappings for any poison gas
residues. None. All this was entered into the court record without
refutation in the Zundel Trial circa 1986 in Canada. Those who defend the
TV/Hollywood version of the Holocaust must explain to people like myself,
who once believed these "official" versions of Holocaust history, ---
 where those buildings came from, and/or how the actual gas chambers
worked, as no one has ever been able to propose a model as to how the Nazi
soldiers killed the people inside without being affected themselves. In the
Holocaust Museum in D.C. there is no working model nor is there an
explanation as to how the murder weapon (gas chambers) worked. This is the
equivalent of the Catholic Church being unable to produce a Cross or
explain why people died because of crucifixtion. This is not to minimize
the fatalities which resulted through being worked to death or slowly
starved to death in these camps., or the many documented tortures, cruel
experiments, or documented individual and mass killings which went on.

If those who run this list can't recognize this as a serious historical
question, then I guess I've come to the wrong place. However, I don't think
this is the case. If this list wants not to discuss this one subject, fine.
But apply it across the board -- don't let some post items which assume the
official TV/Hollywood version of the Holocaust --- and then prevent all the
rest from raising legitimate questions regarding what historical evidence
is true and which is false. Thanks. Jim Condit Jr.

On Monday, December 07, 1998 12:48 PM, Gerald Harp [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
wrote:
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 12/7/98 4:27:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> >  This is real scientific research,
> >  and proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the buildings being passed
off
> >  as gas chambers at Auschwitz and several of the other camps were
devoid of
> >  traces of any poison gas.
>
> I have no idea what the POV of the list manager will be but as for me, it
was
> a delightful short period when you and michaelj were fussing with each
other
> over some definition questions.  I say this since you two seem to be the
two
> chief revisionists and apologists/explainers (as in "it was more complex
than
> that" when referring to the beating to death of a young gay man or "hey,
> slavery isn't so bad," and your current questioning of the so-called
> holocaust) for the more brutal right-wing savagery.
>
> Jerry Harp
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid
matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
> 
> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Om

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER

Re: [CTRL] Question about list Rules

[Jim Condit Jr.]

 -Caveat Lector-

Dear Teo 1000, I read my e-mail backwards so I made another post regarding
this subject before getting here. Yes, I too would not want to see the
other discussion jammed up if that what happens. Nor do I want to be
impolite and break any lists rules of which I am a guest. You are right
that there are many other lists, and I find the other info/discussion on
this one valuable.

So, (unhappily, if necessary) please respond to this one last question on
this topic: Are you saying that the List Managers have decreed that the
general version of the Holocaust held by, say, Spielberg's movie,
Schindler's list, is correct and that anyone may talk about WWII from that
point of view and remain welcome on this list, while anyone who wishes to
question some aspects of what pro-Schindler people bring up, are not
welcome, and should keep silent or go to another list?


Thanks in advance for your direct answer to this question. Jim Condit Jr.

P.S. Any refutation or leads to refutations of the Leuchter report would be
most welcome by me at my private e-mail, [EMAIL PROTECTED]

On Monday, December 07, 1998 10:51 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 12/7/98 4:27:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << Let me get this straight. The list directions ban any discussion about
>  whether the TV/Hollywood version of the Holocaust are true and accurate,
>  but the list allows members to assert the disproven contention that
Zyklon
>  B was used to gas people en masse during World War II. Has anyone on
this
>  list ever heard of the Leuchter report? This is real scientific
research,
>  and proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the buildings being passed
off
>  as gas chambers at Auschwitz and several of the other camps were devoid
of
>  traces of any poison gas. (This is not deny that millions were abused
and
>  treated unjustly, and killed unjustly, during WWII by Hilter's Nazi
regime.
>  I always say that even one person killed unjustly is too many,
especially
>  if it is you.) Put for a list claiming to be involved in serious inquiry
of
>  history, it seems to me that you either have to ban all discussion of a
>  subject, or to allow rational discussion of that subject from all sides.
>  Would anyone care to further explain this list's position on that point?
>   >>
>
> I'd be less than happy to explain, since this has been brought up ad
nauseum.
> It would be all well and good to say that such things should be discussed
> freely and let the members decide what to believe, but it is the nature
of
> such people (Holocaust deniers) to overtake the list and jam up all
> communication on it perverting it to the exclusive discussion of their
own
> twisted views.  The Leuchter report has been debunked by others, and only
has
> as much weight as any other piece of evidence.  I think there is
sufficient
> evidence to indicate that Zyklon B and other gases were used against the
Jews
> and other undesireables to kill them.  The fact even that the so-called
gas
> chambers are not specifically designed for gassing is inconsequential.
 It is
> pretty apparent that the Germans were trying to keep things secret, they
> didn't want to alert anyone that they were committing genocide and mass
murder
> and have even more people after them.  I believe that there is enough
evidence
> to indicate that they gassed, shot, used carbon monoxide from running
engines,
> conducted experiments on, used mobile gas chambers on, tortured, worked
to
> death, huge numbers of Jews and others, mostly of eastern European
descent,
> seen as undesireable.
> NOW, having said that, if you don't like that position go find out what
you
> can from any of the web sites devoted to the topic, or subscribe to one
of the
> many lists that discuss the topic, and come to your own conclusion.  The
issue
> is DEAD here and is not to be discussed in the revisionist manner,
therefore
> whether you like it or not is irrelevant, you are welcome to unsubscribe
and
> go onto another list which discusses such things.
> Teo1000
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid
matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor
effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
> 
> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To UNsubscri

Re: [CTRL] Question about list Rules

[Gerald Harp]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/7/98 4:27:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

>  This is real scientific research,
>  and proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the buildings being passed off
>  as gas chambers at Auschwitz and several of the other camps were devoid of
>  traces of any poison gas.

I have no idea what the POV of the list manager will be but as for me, it was
a delightful short period when you and michaelj were fussing with each other
over some definition questions.  I say this since you two seem to be the two
chief revisionists and apologists/explainers (as in "it was more complex than
that" when referring to the beating to death of a young gay man or "hey,
slavery isn't so bad," and your current questioning of the so-called
holocaust) for the more brutal right-wing savagery.

Jerry Harp

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Question about list Rules

[Teo1000]

 -Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/7/98 4:27:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Let me get this straight. The list directions ban any discussion about
 whether the TV/Hollywood version of the Holocaust are true and accurate,
 but the list allows members to assert the disproven contention that Zyklon
 B was used to gas people en masse during World War II. Has anyone on this
 list ever heard of the Leuchter report? This is real scientific research,
 and proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the buildings being passed off
 as gas chambers at Auschwitz and several of the other camps were devoid of
 traces of any poison gas. (This is not deny that millions were abused and
 treated unjustly, and killed unjustly, during WWII by Hilter's Nazi regime.
 I always say that even one person killed unjustly is too many, especially
 if it is you.) Put for a list claiming to be involved in serious inquiry of
 history, it seems to me that you either have to ban all discussion of a
 subject, or to allow rational discussion of that subject from all sides.
 Would anyone care to further explain this list's position on that point?
  >>

I'd be less than happy to explain, since this has been brought up ad nauseum.
It would be all well and good to say that such things should be discussed
freely and let the members decide what to believe, but it is the nature of
such people (Holocaust deniers) to overtake the list and jam up all
communication on it perverting it to the exclusive discussion of their own
twisted views.  The Leuchter report has been debunked by others, and only has
as much weight as any other piece of evidence.  I think there is sufficient
evidence to indicate that Zyklon B and other gases were used against the Jews
and other undesireables to kill them.  The fact even that the so-called gas
chambers are not specifically designed for gassing is inconsequential.  It is
pretty apparent that the Germans were trying to keep things secret, they
didn't want to alert anyone that they were committing genocide and mass murder
and have even more people after them.  I believe that there is enough evidence
to indicate that they gassed, shot, used carbon monoxide from running engines,
conducted experiments on, used mobile gas chambers on, tortured, worked to
death, huge numbers of Jews and others, mostly of eastern European descent,
seen as undesireable.
NOW, having said that, if you don't like that position go find out what you
can from any of the web sites devoted to the topic, or subscribe to one of the
many lists that discuss the topic, and come to your own conclusion.  The issue
is DEAD here and is not to be discussed in the revisionist manner, therefore
whether you like it or not is irrelevant, you are welcome to unsubscribe and
go onto another list which discusses such things.
Teo1000

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] Question about list Rules

[RoadsEnd]

 -Caveat Lector-

Yo,
Yeah, i've heard and read the Leuchter report. It is not scientific and if you
had done any real research, you might find that it has been discredited
bigtime.

Your discussion is not rational. And your discernment is showing.

Check-out the site and report posted below your message.

Om
K

In a message dated 12/7/98 1:27:15 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>Let me get this straight. The list directions ban any discussion about
>
>whether the TV/Hollywood version of the Holocaust are true and accurate,
>
>but the list allows members to assert the disproven contention that Zyklon
>
>B was used to gas people en masse during World War II. Has anyone on this
>
>list ever heard of the Leuchter report? This is real scientific research,
>
>and proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the buildings being passed off
>
>as gas chambers at Auschwitz and several of the other camps were devoid of
>
>traces of any poison gas. (This is not deny that millions were abused and
>
>treated unjustly, and killed unjustly, during WWII by Hilter's Nazi regime.
>
>I always say that even one person killed unjustly is too many, especially
>
>if it is you.) Put for a list claiming to be involved in serious inquiry of
>
>history, it seems to me that you either have to ban all discussion of a
>
>subject, or to allow rational discussion of that subject from all sides.
>
>Would anyone care to further explain this list's position on that point?
=
from:
http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/leuchter/index.html
http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/leuchter/index.html">Holocaust Denial and
the Leuchter Report: Index
-
The Leuchter Report: A Layman's Guide
Holocaust Denial & The Big Lie



The attempt to justify an evil deed has perhaps more pernicious
consequences than the evil deed itself. The justification of a past
crime is the planting and cultivation of future crimes. Indeed, the
repitition of a crime is sometimes part of a device of justification; we
do it again and again to convince ourselves and others that it is a
common thing and not an enormity. (Eric Hoffer, The Passionate State of
Mind. New York: Harper & Brothers, 1954.)



•Introduction & Editorial Notes •Copyright Notice
•Overview •Point, Counterpoint - Denial Claims Addressed •Disparities in
Hydrocyanic Compound Levels
•Explosive Property of Zyklon B & Furnace Proximity
•Gas Chambers Could Not Have Been Opened Safely
•The Extermination Chambers Were Actually Morgues
•Impossible to Kill 6 Million People at Auschwitz
•Doors of Gas Chambers Too Weak to Prevent Escape
•They Would Not Have Used Zyklon-B for Gassing
•The gas chambers were never sealed, or...
•The gas would have killed everyone outside when ventilated
•Where did all the ashes from the cremations go
•People who dropped the gas into the gas chamber would have been killed
by it
•The Auschwitz death list doesn't show all those people were killed
•Why would there be a swimming pool at a death camp
•The high water table made it impossible to burn bodies in ditches
•How did witnesses to the gassings survivei
•Toxicity of fumes from a diesel engine
•There were not enough Jews in Europe to account for six million victims

•The "myth" of the Holocaust was created solely for the financial
benefit of Israel •Leuchter's credibility •Leuchter's perjury in
Canadian court
•Leuchter's credibility among American prison admins •Research Sources &
Other Useful Appendices •Recommended Reading
•Glossary
•Works Cited


The most current plaintext version of Part One and Part Two of this FAQ
is available via ftp.

An online edition of the Leuchter Report itself is available from Ernst
Zuendel's website.





[ Index ]







The Nizkor Project
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Director: Ken McVay
Financial Support

Advanced Options
November 6, 1998
-
Aloha, He'Ping,
Om, Shalom, Salaam.
Em Hotep, Peace Be,
Omnia Bona Bonis,
All My Relations.
Adieu, Adios, Aloha.
Amen.
Roads End
Kris

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.


To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory 

Re: [CTRL] Question about list Rules

[Jim Condit Jr.]

 -Caveat Lector-

Let me get this straight. The list directions ban any discussion about
whether the TV/Hollywood version of the Holocaust are true and accurate,
but the list allows members to assert the disproven contention that Zyklon
B was used to gas people en masse during World War II. Has anyone on this
list ever heard of the Leuchter report? This is real scientific research,
and proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the buildings being passed off
as gas chambers at Auschwitz and several of the other camps were devoid of
traces of any poison gas. (This is not deny that millions were abused and
treated unjustly, and killed unjustly, during WWII by Hilter's Nazi regime.
I always say that even one person killed unjustly is too many, especially
if it is you.) Put for a list claiming to be involved in serious inquiry of
history, it seems to me that you either have to ban all discussion of a
subject, or to allow rational discussion of that subject from all sides.
Would anyone care to further explain this list's position on that point?

On Monday, December 07, 1998 12:26 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
>  -Caveat Lector-
>
> In a message dated 12/6/98 7:18:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
>
> << However, don't believe all the documents that are posted in a place
like
> this
>  list.  Yes, i enjoy the list and some of the folks on it including you.
 I
>  also appreciate receiving information not otherwise available.  But when
some
>  of the various sources on this list feed you slander against the pope,
>  "documented" all over the place, be more than a bit wary.  For one
thing,
> some
>  members of this list are haters by their nature.  They don't really hate
the
>  pope or Catholics generally, or Jews, or foreigners.  By particularizing
> their
>  rage, these haters are able to intellectualize their venom and spin
fantastic
>  webs of pseudo history to make themselves appear sane.
>
>  There are some perfectly fine people on this list and there are some
ravenous
>  wolves.
>
>  Take care
>  Jerry Harp >>
>
> Here is my take on this.  Some have said that the current Pope, John Paul
II
> was indeed a worker in a plant that produced Zyklon B, the stuff the
German's
> used to kill Jews and other undesireables ( along with other more
imaginative
> means) before becoming a priest.  This is an allegation, and I'm unsure
as to
> documentation.
> Now that said, I would like to point out, that Jerry has a good point.
 Don't
> believe everything you read here, some of it is just garbage, even some
of
> what I post will inevitably show itself to be trash (but it won't stop me
from
> posting !!).  Try to uncover as much on your own as possible to allow you
to
> come to a decision regarding whether something you have read is true or
not.
> The problem that Jerry has, if I may deduce from his post, is that he
just
> refuses to believe that the Pope could possibly have done such a thing.
 This
> is the same thing he cites, but from the opposite direction.  Don't
> automatically disbelieve something on this list without doing a little
> checking.  I know that to some this is one of religious significance, and
> there are other topics of a similar nature brought up on this list from
time
> to time.  Issues such as this or those others often come down to a matter
of
> faith, ie; the Pope is a man of God, therefore he COULDN'T possibly have
done
> such a thing, many will dismiss the idea for that reason.  I caution you
if
> you are inclined to do so, you may be cutting off a real avenue of
research.
> Teo1000
>
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting
propagandic
> screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing!  These are sordid
matters
> and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
> frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor e
ffects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
>
> 
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> Om

DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substance—not soapboxing!  These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically  by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being sa