CS: Legal-Airguns
From: Jonathan Spencer, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Very few people have ever been killed with 12 >foot-pound (and under) airguns and I don't think its >therefore reasonable in the legal sense to say that >they ARE lethal. "in the legal sense", you mean "in law". Most are. >If something doesn't go bang it's not a firearm, by >definition What about a harpoon with a tube to guide the spear. By case law, it was a lethal **barrelled** weapon, and a firearm. >The scale >of the threat simply does not indicate a need for licensing, >any more than it would indicate a need for licensing hammers, >for example. Oooh, no, there's lots of people been killed with hammers, but not nearly as many as with fists, feet, broken bottles, kitchen knifes ... --Jonathan Spencer, firearms examiner "Justice is open to everybody in the same way as the Ritz Hotel." Judge Sturgess, 22 July 1928 Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-NRA-ILA FAX ALERT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] NRA-ILA FAX ALERT Vol. 8, No. 6 2/9/01 ASHCROFT CALLS FOR "TOUGHER ENFORCEMENT," NOT NEW LAWS On Wednesday, U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft appeared on CNN's "Larry King Live," and spoke of his support of enforcing existing laws against violent criminals who misuse firearms, rather than passing new "gun control" laws. Ashcroft told King, "I think we've got enough laws on the books. I think what we need is tougher enforcement." This appearance was the first opportunity for the Attorney General to make public statements since he was confirmed by the U.S. Senate last week, after one of the most contentious confirmation battles the Senate has ever seen. Ashcroft said that under his stewardship, the Bush Administration's Department of Justice would work to increase federal prosecutions of "people who use guns in commission of a crime." This, of course, would be in stark contrast to the Clinton-Gore Administration, which had an abysmal record when it came to prosecuting violations of federal gun laws. The new Attorney General stated that he plans to increase federal involvement in prosecuting criminals who misuse firearms by supporting programs such as the NRA-backed "Project Exile" prosecution model that was developed in Richmond, Virginia. "Project Exile"a cooperative effort among local, state, and federal law enforcement and prosecutorstargets violent felons who violate firearm laws, then seeks the most stringent penalties available. The program has been credited with a dramatic reduction in Richmond's homicide and gun-related crime rates, which Ashcroft pointed out, and he continued by commenting that he hoped to take "Project Exile" nationwide. It's certainly good to see a U.S. Attorney General who is interested in aggressively targeting violent criminals, rather than constantly harassing law-abiding citizens. Even more heartening, though, is knowing that we now have a U.S. Attorney General who supports the individual right to arms. Ashcroft took the time during his appearance to remind King that, "Law-abiding citizens have a right, under our Constitution, to have firearms." The last stated Justice Department official position was that "the Second Amendment does not extend an individual right to keep and bear arms." U.S. HOUSE AND SENATE TAKE UP BANKRUPTCY REFORM This week, the U.S. House and Senate took up the issue of reforming our nation's bankruptcy laws. And while this is normally not an NRA-related issue, gun-ban extremists tried to attach anti-gun language to similar legislation last year. We must be prepared for a similar strategy on their part this year. Last year, in a show of bipartisan support for the rule of law, and a rejection of the anti-gun agenda of reckless lawsuits against firearm manufacturers, the U.S. Senate defeated Senator Carl Levin's (D-Mich.) amendment that would deny gun makers equal protection under our nation's bankruptcy laws. Levin's attack on the firearms industry was nothing more than a direct attempt to assist in crushing gun makers under the relentless pressure of costly, frivolous litigation. We expect that a similar amendment will be offered again this year. Please be sure to contact both your U.S. Senators and your U.S. Representative and remind them that gun makers are entitled to the same legal protections due every other lawful industry. Tell them there is no rational basis to exclude firearms companies from bankruptcy law, and to do so would be patently unfair. Urge your lawmakers to oppose any amendments that would deny gun makers equal protection under our nation's bankruptcy laws. The bill number for bankruptcy reform legislation in the Senate is S. 220, and in the House it is H.R. 333. You can call your U.S. Senators at (202) 224-3121, and your U.S. Representatives at (202) 225-3121. For those on the Internet, you can find additional contact information for your federal lawmakers by using the "Write Your Reps" tool at www.NRAILA.org. TWISTED IRONY FOR MMM? The February 2 edition of the Washington Post reported that a D.C. Superior Court jury found Barbara Graham guilty of "trying to avenge her son's death by shooting a young man she blamed for the killing." Graham, 49, was convicted on February 1 of nine separate counts, all stemming from a January 26, 2000, shooting that left 23-year-old Kikko Smith paralyzed from the waist down. The "grieving mother" was accused of having shot Smith because she thought he was responsible for the shooting death of her own son, Le'Pierre Clemons, although prosecutors say Smith was not responsible. Clemons had been killed in 1999. But what seems like a tragic story of misguided revenge doesn't end there. According to a WorldNetDaily (an online news service you can find at www.wnd.com) article from February 5, Barbara Graham is not just a "bereaved mother," but she also "spoke out against gun viol
CS: Crime-Yard summit as gun gang crime reaches peak in London.
From: "John Hurst.", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Evening Standard London 31/1/01 Yard summit as gun gang crime reaches peak in London new by JUSTIN DAVENPORT THE SCALE of gun violence between feuding black drug gangs in London has reached crisis levels with one shooting reported every other day. Scotland Yard is now calling a summit of community leaders across London in an effort to combat gun crime. This month alone, there have been at least 13 attempted murders and two killings between rival groups and individuals. In one 12-hour period earlier this week, there were five shootings, including one death. Commander Mike Fuller, head of Operation Trident, the specialist squad set up to combat black gun crime, said: "There is no obvious reason for this increase. "The sheer scale has shocked us. I think there would be uproar if the number of shootings that take place in black areas were to occur in certain other parts of London." He said he had called a crisis meeting of all prominent black community leaders in London to discuss possible new ways of tackling the problem. "We are getting a lot of community support and a lot of information but we are looking for any constructive new ideas that we may have missed," he said. In recent weeks officers from his 160-strong squad have seized three sub-machine guns and eight hand-guns in London, compared with four sub-machine guns in the whole of last year. Police are increasingly called to reports of shootings only to find bullet holes in cars or houses, spent cartridges and sometimes even blood. The increase in shooting comes as Brent council launched a poster campaign featuring a young black man shot through the face with a handgun by his side. The pesters, which read "Young, gifted and dead" will appear in north London in an attempt to shock communities into action. The Home Office-funded campaign is In stark contrast to the more "softly softly" Trident police approach to win respect in the black community. Mr Fuller said: "We believe in raising awareness and encouraging young people to pass on information but there are risks in using shock tactics. "We discussed using tactics like this at our lay advisory group but we didn't go for it; The Met are keen not to heighten the fear of crime." Brent was chosen because it has more shootings than any other area of London. A Brent council spokesman said the poster was chosen by focus groups. He said: "Yes, it is horrible for children to see this but it ids a lot more horrible that they could walk out of school and see this for real." Mr Fuller said police 'were particularly concerned at the rise in the' number of "assassination style" weapons in London. ú "However, London is not flooded with guns. You can't just hire one on any street corner. In fact, it sometimes takes a couple of days, even if you know the right person to approach." Supt Stuart Low of Brent Police said: "The poster is very graphic and it is a source of concern to us. We do not want to create alarm but the sad reality is that this sort of violence has been with us for some while. Our biggest problem is trying to unlock community intelligence. We have to find new ways of getting the community on board." Keith Johnson, whose brother Richard Parkinson was shot dead while working as a security guard at a black music venue in April 1999, said: "The poster is worth a try. It might get the message across but whether it will get the information across is another matter." Two black men have died in shootings so far this year. Carlton Speid, 67, was found with gunshot wounds in a house fire in Brixton earlier this month. A man has been charged with his murder. Andrew Williams, 30, of Clapham, was shot outside Chicago's nightclub in Peckham at the weekend. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Crime-holdup man gets life
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > LIFE FOR TEST DRIVE GUNMAN > > 091724 FEB 10 > > By Julie Wheldon, PA News > > A man who held up a car salesman at gunpoint during a test drive was today > jailed for life. > > Paul Kingston, 28, was on parole for a similar gun offence involving a taxi > driver, when he struck again in Paignton, Devon, on December 2 last year, > Exeter Crown Court heard. > > Prosecutor Iain Leadbetter said Kingston left his Brixham home and > purchased the replica Beretta pistol from a gunsmith in Paignton. > > Mr Leadbetter said Kingston then went to get a car because he had urges in > his head to harm or kill his ex-girlfriend who lived in Wiltshire. > > A garage salesman agreed to take him for a test drive during which Kingston > pulled out the gun, the prosecution said. > > He then forced the terrified salesman at gunpoint to get out of the car and > drove off. > > Police were alerted who scrambled the force helicopter which went in search > of the vehicle. > > Kingston was later arrested by police in Bickington. > > The court heard that when the incident occurred, Kingston had already > served an 18-months prison sentence for an identical offence involving a > taxi driver in Wilton, Wiltshire. > > David Evans, defending, said Kingston committed high-profile offences to > draw attention to himself and made no effort to avoid detection. > > After terrorising the car salesman, he had given himself up to the police > by lying on the ground with his hands behind his head when they approached > him. > > Mr Evans said it was a sad story with a pre-determined ending because of > his previous conviction. > > Kingston, of Somercourt Way, Brixham, pleaded guilty to three charges of > possessing a firearm with intent to commit an offence, taking a car and > driving whilst disqualified. > > Passing sentence Judge Graham Cottle said Kingston was a danger to the > Kenneth Pantling Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-police want more weapons
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > STUN GUNS CONSIDERED AS POLICE DEMAND NEW WEAPONS > > 091636 FEB 10 > > By David Barrett, Home Affairs Correspondent, PA News > > The police have asked Government scientists to help them find a new weapon > to use alongside CS spray and the traditional baton, it was revealed today. > > Devices under consideration include an electrical stun gun which fires out > two wires and delivers a high-voltage shock to incapacitate suspects, > Police Review magazine reported. > > Other possibilities include new types of chemical weapons and so-called > "kinetic energy weapons" - low-powered guns which fire rubber bullets or > bean bags. > > In a development which could see British officers take another step away > from their unarmed status, the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) > has submitted operational requirements for a new weapon to the Home Office. > > Officers want something less lethal than a gun but more effective over > greater distances than CS spray, said Inspector Neil Haynes, former > assistant secretary to ACPO's self-defence, arrest and restraint > sub-committee. > > "This is particularly now that the Human Rights Act is out there because of > the need to act proportionately," he told Police Review. > > "In order to operate truly proportionately we need more options to consider > - more tools in the toolbox." > > In October, police in Nottingham became the first in mainland Britain to go > on routine patrol with sidearms. > > Nottinghamshire Police said arming the officers with Walther P990 pistols > was necessary to reassure residents of two violent areas of the city they > were combating gun crime. > > Insp Haynes added that ACPO was seeking a "less lethal" weapon, which was > "unlikely to cause fatal or serious injury" and simple to operate. > > It should function at longer distances than officers' current kit, in the > order of more than 80ft, he added. > > An ACPO spokesman said: "This is trying to plug a very real operational > need. > > "We are not going to start using some of the wackier, American-style stuff, > such as sticky nets that officers fire at suspects. > > "Whatever we adopt will be in the proper tradition of British policing, and > we are committed to maintaining what's essentially an unarmed police force. > > "Any new piece of equipment will be seen within that framework - it cannot > be seen as an offensive weapon. > > "It has yet to be decided if it would be something carried by the average > constable or issued for specific occasions." > > Weapons currently on the market will be assessed by the Hertfordshire-based > Police Scientific Development Branch in partnership with the Defence > Evaluation and Research Agency at Farnborough, Hants. > > A Home Office spokesman told PA News: "We are looking into this request > from ACPO." > > Welcoming the development, a spokesman for the Police Complaints Authority > said: "Any safe alternative which could be found to having to resort to > firearms would be good for everyone concerned. > > "This is a move to find an alternative to lethal force and no-one is > suggesting it would be used routinely. > > "At the moment, the levels of force start with batons and CS spray at close > range, then there's a leap to firearms - anything that can be introduced > between them may save lives." > > Former Conservative Home Secretary Michael Howard gave the go-ahead for > police to carry long-handled US-style batons in 1994 and two years later CS > sprays became part of the constable's armoury. > > There are still concerns about the safety of CS spray, which some believe > can be dangerous when used on people with weak lungs or on the mentally ill > who are taking anti-psychotic drugs. > > ~~~ Er! Excuse me master - what about us lot? Kenneth Pantling Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-One Organisation
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think the four main UK shooting shows take place in the Midlands because it's personally convenient for the people who run them and for the main firms in the business. I don't think it's good for shooting in the UK to keep them all, all the time, in the same limited geographical area. I don't see why shooting grounds are necessarily needed - they're not needed for the .22LR down-the-pipe shooting at shows, are they? I think some silenced shotguns could be available within the show for people to try out like they try out airguns, crossbows and .22LR rifles. I think that down-the-pipe shooting could also be managed with silenced deer rifles within the shows. Looking at the overall picture, I think there's a great deal of effort regularly devoted to the question "How can we exclude people from gun possession?" That's from individual clubs, from the type of shooting, from competitions, from being able to have a gun at all. The underlying psychology is "I want a gun, but I don't want anyone else to have a gun." It's a compliment to the effectiveness of firearms as weapons and a comment on our fundamental monkey nature. Regards Norman Bassett drakenfels.org Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-.50
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alex Hamilton's comment exhibits the kind of Luddite mentality that is in danger of killing our sport. The same attitude applied to golf would have everyone playing with one club. He should perhaps remember that many of us were first taught to shoot in the army and then transferred the skills we acquired into civilian life. If it were not for the numbers and diversity of the shooting community he should understand that not only would his particular type of shooting be prohibitively expensive it would also be a lot harder to pursue as many ranges would not be able to survive if they were only patronised by 'gravel-bellies'. Tony Jeeves -- I have to say in equal measure I don't like this disparagement of people who shoot TR or MR any more than I like practical shooters or .50 shooters being put down either. Most of them are the same people in my experience! The only thing I can say against TR is that the NRA seems to forget that there are other fullbore shooting disciplines as I grow increasingly frustrated at their attitude towards 300m (with the range now closed six months out of the year, mind-numbingly daft as it has covered points and more likely to be used by TR shooters as well during the winter) and also their gross stupidity, subsidising GR and various other events at the Imperial and doing very little to promote them. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-Churchill and Pistols
From: Norman Bassett, [EMAIL PROTECTED] It appears to have taken 10 years effort to get the Pistols Act 1903 onto the Statute book, so I wouldn't call it a minor matter, it was the thin end of the wedge - or one of them. I don't recall the Pistols Bill 1911 having been initially mentioned at all, the posting "Churchill was against pistols" was what I was responding to.
CS: Pol-Canadas Firearms Community Suspends Talks
From: CILA / ICAL National Office, [EMAIL PROTECTED] CILA / ICAL Defending Canada's Heritage -- February 8, 2001 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Canadas Firearms Community Suspends Talks Canadas recreational firearms community, dealers and distributors suspended talks with the Canadian Firearms Centre today. The organizations involved in this action were: The British Columbia Wildlife Federation The Canadian Shooting Sports Association The Canadian Sporting Arms and Ammunition Association The Shooting Federation of Canada The Canadian Institute for Legislative Action In a letter addressed to Maryantonet Flumian, the Canadian Institute for Legislative Action, speaking on behalf of the collective groups, outlined the many reasons for the suspension of the meeting process initiated last April. * The secret formation of the National Weapons Enforcement Support Team and the hiring of Robert Frolic, formerly the Director of the Provincial Weapons Enforcement Unit to lead the NWEST team. * The employment of Chantale Breton, former Executive Director of the Coalition for Gun Control as an Information Officer for the Canadian Firearms Centre. * The lack of action on the part of the Canadian government to prevent the confiscation of 115,000 guns coming on June 30, 2001. * The lack of concern for ordinary individuals who may have found themselves inadvertently criminals under the new licensing legislation. * Broken promises regarding the de-registration of airguns registered during last years misguided RCMP initiative. Speaking on behalf of the groups, CILA Executive Director Tony Bernardo said, How can we continue talks in this atmosphere of bad faith and mistrust. The Canadian Firearms Centre continues to deceive the people of Canada. The hiring of well known anti gun individuals to represent the CFC reaches an all time low in "client service" relationships. So much for the civil service and government impartiality, he added. Copies of the letter are available upon request. -30- Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-ACPO may lose independence
From: "Charles Parker", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Police Review 2/2/01 Article 1 ACPO could lose independence over lack of funds, says president By Tina Orr-Munro ACPO could become part of a central policy unit run by the Home Office if funding from the Association of Police Authorities is not maintained, Tony Burden, the ACPO president warned last week. Mr Burden, who is also chief constable of South Wales Police said he was fighting to retain ACPO's independence from the Home Office, but lack of funding from the APA could result in a closer working relationship with the Home Office. Speaking at an APA meeting MR Burden said: 'We are in a situation now where we are having to cut resources and I cannot make up the shortfall. If we are offered funding, it is a case of any port in a storm.' Mr Burden said he was 'fighting' HO plans to create a central policy unit. 'The HO would wish to fund us and second officers into a joint policy unit,' he said. 'We do not want it. We need to keep our independence as you do.' Centralising ACPO, said Mr Burden, could have an adverse effect on the APA. 'If a central policy group was set up you may feel that trying to influence such a strong bond may be rather difficult,' he said. Lady Angela Harris, chair of North Yorkshire Police Authority, said she was 'disturbed' by Mr Burden' claims. 'It is completely unacceptable,' she said. 'I look to ACPO to fight their corner as equally strongly as we have fought ours.' Stephen Murphy, chairman of Greater Manchester Police Authority said, the APA should do 'what ever it could' to stop centralisation. 'I don't believe we should move away from our tripartite relationship.' He said. 'We need access to ACPO when we require them.' As a result of the discussion, the APA approved a standstill budget plus inflation for ACPO. A Home Office spokesperson denied plans to make ACPO part of the HO. 'Discussion (regarding policing) with the APA and ACPO are ongoing and it is not for the HO to tell either organisation how to organise themselves.' Article 2 A substantial part of the revised ACPO manual of guidance on the police use of firearms has been made available to the public for the first time. Commenting on the publication of the manual last week, Paul Acres, chairman of ACPO sub-committee on the use of police firearms and chief constable of Hertfordshire Constabulary, said: 'The use of firearms is a very necessary part of police wok. But it is a sensitive one and we are anxious to be open about our guidance. We believe it is only right this information should be now widely available.' Mr Acres said the manual played a key role in developing and maintaining high standards. 'It is constantly reviewed and updated,' he said, 'but this is the first time that it has been extensively revised since it was first created in 1983. I am delighted that 6 of its 10 chapters are now available for the public to read on the internet.' Mr Acres added that the manual complied fully with the articles of the European Convention in Human Rights and had taken into consideration the UN's Codes of Conduct. ' We hope that it will reassure the public just how carefully we manage this issue,' said Mr Acres. The first six chapters of the manual, covering powers and procedural guidelines relating to the police use of firearms have been published on ACPO's website, the address of which is www.acpo.police.uk Article 3 Home Office releases details of police service strength In response to a question by Anne Widdecombe, shadow home secretary, Charles Clarke, Home Office minister, released details of police service strength last week. The details are given on the table below. Police forceTotal police officers Total police officers Sept 2000 March 1997 Avon & Somerset 2,941 2,989 Bedfordshire1,006 1,094 Cambridgeshire 1,266 1,302 Cheshire2,000 2,046 Cleveland 1,421 1,459 Cumbria 1,048 1,144 Derbyshire 1,780 1,791 Devon & Cornwall2,873 2,865 Dorset 1,299 1,284 Durham 1,581 1,464 Essex 2,780 2,961 Gloucestershire 1,142 1,133 Greater Manchester 6,767 6,922 Hampshire 3,435 3,452 Hertfordshire 1,961 1,759 Humberside 1,905 2,045 Kent3,239 3,260 Lancashire 3,215 3,247 Leicestershire 2,010 1,949 Lincolnshire
CS: Misc-Identity Cards
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Smart card plan 'to empower the citizen' By Rachel Sylvester source:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=000553071249928&rtmo=VDMV6SwK&; atmo=&pg=/et/01/1/24/ncard24.html SMART cards, allowing everybody in the country to claim benefits, pay tax or obtain access to their medical record through machines in kiosks on street corners, are to be introduced by the Government.A report from the Performance and Innovation Unit (PIU), Tony Blair's think-tank in the Cabinet Office, will recommend the introduction of cards that will operate in conjunction with a unique personal identifier, such as a thumb print. The aim is to increase the security of transactions on the internet. The Prime Minister has http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=000553071249928&rtmo=VDMV6SkK&atmo= &pg=/et/00/3/8/net08.html">pledged that all Government services will be available online by 2005 and there are concerns that personal information could be obtained by somebody else if there is not a secure way of identifying each individual.But the plan, which will become Government policy once it is published in the spring, will create fears that ministers are trying to introduce ID cards through the back door. Each card will have a unique "chip" containing a range of personal details. The report will also recommend a massive increase in the amount of private information that can be exchanged between Government departments.Lord Falconer, the Cabinet Office minister in charge of the project on privacy, insisted that the cards would be voluntary. "This is about empowering the citizen, not about Big Brother government. The smart card could give you access, not just to information about you, but also to Government services, or to goods. The police could not stop and ask to see it. It is meant to give people confidence that the privacy of their data is protected." At first, the smart cards will give people access to Government information. In the longer run, they will be used to carry out transactions such as paying tax, claiming benefit or registering the birth of a child. It would also be possible for an individual to use the card as a foolproof way of identifying himself to the private sector, for example when dealing with an internet bank.Last year, Barclays internet customers found that their accounts had been accessed by other people and http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=000553071249928&rtmo =VDMV6SkK&atmo=&pg=/et/00/7/20/cnpow20.html">Powergen users found their details posted on a website. The Prime Minister's advisers say the opportunities are "almost limitless" once the public is convinced of the benefits of the scheme. They have been studying a system in Finland, where smart cards can be used as passports.Although the unit's report will stress that the system will not be universal, some ministers are convinced that the next logical step is to press ahead with the introduction of ID cards. One said he though it was inevitable that genetic ID cards, containing details of each person's DNA, would eventually be introduced. Last week, Jack Straw, the Home Secretary, proposed to give the police power to retain indefinitely DNA samples taken from innocent people. Ann Widdecombe, the shadow home secretary, said: "If this is a card that's voluntarily held and is going to make data more secure then that's fine." Elizabeth France, the Data Protection Commissioner, who has been involved in the unit's study, has also called for the introduction of digital identification cards for doing business on the internet.The PIU inquiry has been considering how the privacy and security of data can be maintained in the light of new technology. The report, to be published in the spring, is also expected to recommend that the law should be changed to allow much more information to be exchanged between Government departments.Lord Falconer said: "We want to find ways in which information held by the Government can be used more effectively to provide better services to the citizen. But we cannot do that unless we also give the citizen confidence that his privacy will be protected." Kenneth Pantling Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Target-Phoenix postal comps
From: Richard Markham, [EMAIL PROTECTED] What's happened to the Phoenix postal competition? I can't get them on the phone and we are waiting results from last season. -- Richard Markham Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Target-silenced shotguns
From: "Alex Hamilton", [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Norman Bassett, INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] What I'd like to do is to make it a lot easier to get a few shots at all kinds of guns at the four main annual shooting shows in the UK. Otherwise shooting anything but what you own tends to be difficult. I can't see why silenced shotguns couldn't be tried out at the main event and not miles away, for example. Are there such things as silenced shotguns? Are silencers effective without a solid bullet? Alex -- There are suppressed shotguns, I've seen them in shops. Can't see why they wouldn't work, the wad and the shot stay together until they leave the barrel so it is "solid" until then. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-Proofing
From: "Stone.s451", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Going back to an old thread, may I offer from from: http://www.dera.gov.uk/html/te/land/t&e_ordinance_proof.htm 'DERA is a centre of excellence for critical ammunition proofing.' -- Cripes, they can't even spell "ordnance" correctly, don't get me started! Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-.50
From: "Alex Hamilton", [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>To claim that something is a sport implies that a large >>number of people are participating. The fact that something >>is shot in Switzerland or USA does not constitute a sport >>here - I wish it did, but we have to be realistic. >Ah! And just how many people do synchronised swimming I >wonder and that's in the Olympics. Incidentally full bore >target rifle isn't so where does that leave your sport. __ Cricket is not in the Olympics either but it is still a sport. I think Steve's example (balooning) was better in terms of rarity, because Synchronised Swiming is not a sport. It a very small part of Swiming, which is practiced by many thousands in UK alone - probably millions worldwide. There is also an important point in that neither the balooninsts nor the swimers use any device or implement that could be used to kill at a distance or to rob a building society! I am not being flippant! >Alex your argument is total rubbish. Following your line of >thought no new shooting discipline would ever get off the >ground. Practical pistol, one of the greatest boosts the >shooting sports got in the '70s, certainly would never have >started. Yes, I remember several TV programmes during the post Dunblane build up to the pistol ban, showing lines of ferocious looking characters blasting away with shotguns and large magasine capacity pistols at humanoid targets at the rate of 15 rounds in 5 seconds until the targets competely disintergrated and they were ankle deep in fired brass and empty magazines. And 99.99% of great British women cried in agony when they heard that that such harmless and worthwhile sport was in danger... then signed the Snowdrop petition twice >Alex as far as interest is concerned I wouldn't miss the >Bisley type of full bore rifle shooting if it ceased to >exist tomorrow. You will need to accept and quickly too that "Bisley type of shooting" is better able to survive without your support than your type of shooting (you have not told us what that was) without our support, but that is somewhat academical now because both our opinions are truly irrelevant. What really matters is what the government thinks that the population wants and it terms of publicly perceived danger 50 calibre is somewhat above any other discipline that I can think of. >However, I am prepared to do everything >in my power to make sure it doesn't because any type of >shooting sport is worth preserving. Could you show the >same sort of consideration please? Had you read my reply to Tom Charnock (appered on this list yesterday) you would have known that I am not just prepared but that I am actually doing everything I can to save any sport, including foxhunting, and your remarks are well and truly out of place. >Too much has been compromised away already in the name of >eing realistic, its time to be bloody minded. This is where I have to disagree and say that the only thing that stands between us and the government (read "ban") is the Great British Public and we will not endear ourselves to them by demanding our rights and by being bloody minded. AT the moment the public are disinterested and that is our great loss, so concentrate on getting them on our side and there might yet be hope fo us. Alex -- Alex, if you think the public in general can perceive any difference between TR and shooting .50s I think you are being naive. I think we are in danger here of letting the police define the context of the debate. Rifles are almost never used in crime in this country or any other European country for that matter, period, regardless of action type or calibre. There is no danger. This is merely paranoia on the part of ACPO, brought on by reading some of the silly stories that have come out of the US. None of which are even remotely relevant here at all, even if they were true, which they aren't. Also I think taking a swipe at practical pistol is unhelpful. I really don't think it would have mattered what type of target shooting was portrayed on TV, and I have to say I don't recall seeing any footage of practical or anything else for more than a fraction of a second. The issue was never really debated, it was a pure kneejerk reaction. If what you are doing to help shooting sports is to say that it is okay for .50s and practical pistol to be banned, then you aren't helping. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-50 cal
From: "Alex Hamilton", [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you read my reply to Tom Charnock email, Paul, you would have known that I do more for you that you do for me and that I am spending more that anyone half a working week every week on trying to do what I can for all shooting sports. All that aside, do bear in mind that you have no "right" to do anything and no guarantee of freedom beyound that that the Joe Public or the Sun Reader is willing to tolerate. Calling people names whenever they disagree with you will get us all banned. I never said that shooting 50 calibre rifles endengers anything. I asked the question whether it did. Did you not see a sign like this (?) at the end of that sentence? Alex Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-trigger lock recall
For Immediate Release Gun Lock Hotline: (800) 726-6444 February 7, 2001 Contact: Russ Rader Release # 01-078 (301) 504-0580 Ext. 1166 NSSF Contact: Bill Brassard (203) 426-1320 CPSC, National Shooting Sports Foundation Announce Recall to Replace Project HomeSafe Gun Locks WASHINGTON, D.C. - In cooperation with the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC), the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF), of Newtown, Conn., is voluntarily recalling about 400,000 gun locks for replacement. Under certain conditions, these locks can open without the use of a key. This can give unauthorized access to a firearm. The NSSF and its lock supplier, Adstar Inc., of Merrick, N.Y., are unaware of any instances of unauthorized access by adults or children. The locks resemble a bicycle cable lock and have a red cable with a black padlock. Red vinyl bands around the top and bottom of the locks read, "PROJECT" and "HOMESAFE." "MADE IN CHINA" and "30mm" are imprinted on the bottom of the locks. The gun locks were distributed in clear plastic cylinders with Project HomeSafe literature. The gun locks were distributed nationwide by NSSF as part of its Project HomeSafe Campaign for safe firearm storage. Law enforcement agencies distributed the gun locks free of charge from September 1999 through October 2000. Recipients of the Project HomeSafe gun locks should call (800) 726-6444 anytime to receive a free replacement gun lock. Until the replacement gun lock is received, keep the original Project HomeSafe lock installed on the firearm. Consumers are reminded to never put a gun lock on a loaded gun, and to take extra precautions to make sure the gun is secure to keep kids safe. The replacement lock has an improved locking mechanism and a thicker braided-steel cable. With the announcement of this replacement lock program, NSSF is resuming Project HomeSafe and encourages communities to enroll in the nationwide program by having a law enforcement official contact the NSSF. NSSF urges consumers to comply with all state and local laws requiring the use of gun locking devices. For more information on the safe handling and storage of firearms, visit the Project HomeSafe website at www.projecthomesafe.org. To see a picture of the recalled product(s) and/or to establish a link from your web site to this press release on CPSC's web site, link to the following address: http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml01/01078.html. The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission protects the public from unreasonable risks of injury or death from 15,000 types of consumer products under the agency's jurisdiction. To report a dangerous product or a product-related injury, call CPSC's hotline at (800) 638-2772 or CPSC's teletypewriter at (800) 638-8270, or visit CPSC's web site at http://www.cpsc.gov/talk.html. For information on CPSC's fax-on-demand service, call the above numbers or visit the web site at http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/103.html. To order a press release through fax-on-demand, call (301) 504-0051 from the handset of your fax machine and enter the release number. Consumers can obtain this release and recall information at CPSC's web site at http://www.cpsc.gov. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Field-Cats the worst killers
From: Jeremy Peter Howells, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Conversly I know of a case where a breeder of Guinea Fowl was convicted of criminal damage to a cat (owned by his neighbour) who he found stalking the birds running wild in his garden. He shot and killed the cat with an airgun on his own property so did not contravene firearms laws or animal cruelty laws (having killed the cat humanely). Obviously the court came to the conclusion that a a domestic cat was property in this case. Also the breeder of the guinea fowl was rather foolish in having the birds loose in the back garden only protected or contained by light meshing. Regards Jerry Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Crime-Ex-employee kills four and commits suicide
From: Jeremy Peter Howells, [EMAIL PROTECTED] I note that in at least one of the reports he had been convicted of 'conspiracy to steal' from his employers, indicating an organised group (of empoyees?) preparing or stealing from the plant where he worked. Perhaps he was after either (1) those that testified against him or (2) those also involved in the thefts but not caught. Equally he could just have been nuts. As this plant was in Chicago doesn't this show the failing of some of the strict gun laws Chicago has as a convicted felon turned up with a number of weapons including handguns over a week after he was convicted. I also find it strange that although convicted he was free and was to report to prison himself, is this normal? Regards Jerry Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-organisations
From: Jeremy Peter Howells, [EMAIL PROTECTED] It seems all the Welsh Associations and Federations have been left off the list. Welsh Airgun Association (WAA) Welsh Target Shooting Union (WTSU) Welsh Rifle Association (WRA) Welsh Smallbore Rifle Association (WSRA) Welsh Pistol Association (WPA) - now defunct with its previous functions spread across the WAA and WTSU, I believe. Welsh Target Shooting Federation (WTSF) There may also be a field air target association but I'm not sure. Regards Jerry Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-One Organisation
From: "Alex Holmes", [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: John Howat/Wellington Sporting Arms Co Ltd, INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Personally I believe that sports shooting organisations would ALL benefit if they formed a single organisation to represent them ALL in matters relating to FIREARMS LAW. Nothing to do with shooting styles, likes or dislikes - simply promote the current law and try to slowly turn the clock back to pre-Dunblane laws. Such an organisation needs to be "responsible and responsive" and not radical. It also needs to 'meet and greet' as many MPs as possible AND as often as possible. Cheers John Howat I couldn't agree more with John. I know this is the kind of thing he has been doing in NZ. Here in South Africa we managed to get such a body together too. This central body has only one function, to lobby on the political/legal/media front. There is no interference in its member bodies who all run their respective sports/activities/organisations. Doing this has been difficult to say the least but the organisation serves a very real purpose quite successfully. Virtually every single shooting/hunting/firearm organisation in the country is a member. I should add that there are times when it is beneficial to use various member bodies to make certain statements or apply certain pressures which sometimes may seem to vary from the official stance of the central body. Well coordinated this can also be a useful tool. Alex Holmes South Africa Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-The March : Slogans
From: "jim.craig", [EMAIL PROTECTED] What an excellent suggestion for a slogan. The only change I would propose, for alliterative purposes only , would be to use the archaic spelling for jail. Thus 'Gold for winning - Gaol for practising!' Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Target-Shooting at 1000 Yards...
From: "Richard Loweth", [EMAIL PROTECTED] It was ONLY when I did try shooting at 1000 Yards, with my SMLE at Bisley with the HBSA, that I finally realised why the First World War ended up being fought in the manner in which it did. Everyone should try it once. Then everything about 1914 falls into place. 1000 Yard shooting is, apart from the "wind factor" remarkably easy. No, I wasn't smashing eggs from pieces of cotton, but my accuracy was easily sufficient to hit within four to five feet of where I was aiming. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Misc-Another old rumor
From: "Earl W", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Can anybody shed any light on this one? During the Pistol bans Winston Churchill's Boer War Broomhandled Mauser was "handed in" (from a private collection I assume) & was subsequently witnessed being crushed! (same source as before) Is there any truth behind this one? Surely if this is true then it is a crime against history itself, as destroying antiques deliberately is also. EW -- It was sold off at an auction not so long ago, I believe it's still in a collection somewhere. Steve. Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
CS: Pol-.50
From: "Tom Charnock", [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oh how reasonable a reply. But I have seen very similar ones from those defending their "self-actions" on the previous bans ie the NRA , and the Deer Society, and the many other self-interest groups who junked someone else's sport to help them keep their own. Just for interest ask the NRA for a copy of their submission to the Home Office on 50cal shooting, that sells it out too. Seems they looking to add a new power limit, much closer to 308 for all shooting on Bisley. For me, your reply does not cut any ice, and it concerns me that you spend so much time "lobbying" for gun interests (yours no doubt). It would be too much to hope that it is for ALL SHOOTING Sports, and not just the ones that you, Mr Hamilton approve of. You have taken up Gallery Rifle, oh that new sport with not so many shooters, using what the ACPO would love to see set aside, those high capacity lever actions, h. Yes, I could be uncomplimentary about YOUR sport, though I could not taint it so foully with the dubious mention of "sniping", though you so ungenerously spotlight my 50cal shooting sport with it. There are over 40 shooters of 50/55 cal rifles in private ownership, and use, here in the UK. It is NOT a "new" sport, the guns have been about, and shot regularly since WWII (Boyes). The technical change to 50BMG was by ordinary shooters, to enhance long range target shooting, which after the civilians mastered it, the military came along for their use. The last UK shoot (FEB 2001) had over 20 shooters present and 3 of the 4 UK privately-owned Barrett rifles present. The busiest shoot last year had over 35 shooters present. WE are a group of dedicated shooters, we have spent a small fortune on our rifles (up to £6,000) and every time you pull the trigger that's at least another £2. We have to shoot in the week, so losing a days pay (this to fit in with military ranges use). We have occasional visits from special branch, and get heaps of bleatings from our local Firearms Officers. We can now add to that the whining of (supposedly) fellow shooters, looking to appease the ACPO with this years sacrifice of someone else's special interest, and all based upon a person who has never seen a 50 used, nor understands what its about. If that is the basis for your lobbying, then maybe its you that will do worst for shooting. Tom PS the ACPO really doesn't have to do anything, they can leave it to the shooters to sell each other out. If this was an Olympic sport then we have a BAG-FULL of Golds Cybershooters website: http://www.cybershooters.org List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Learn More. Surf Less. Newsletters, Tips and Discussions on Topics You Choose. http://www.topica.com/partner/tag01
