Re: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
Ray Dillinger writes: I've composed a dozen responses, considered the subpeona and the trial that could result from posting each, and wiped them. There's your chilling effect on political discussion if you're interested. This one, I'm going to post, so I'm being very careful what I say. If only there was some technology that would let you post, and say whatever you wanted... something that cypherpunks might have invented... something that would provide you a shield so that even unpopular speech can be presented with little fear of retribution. If only. Well, maybe someday. The focus of the US intel community is shifting, at the current time, to domestic terrorism. That makes political speech of the kind which has in past years been entirely normal on this list orders of magnitude more dangerous to the participants than it was at that time. Taking part in this discussion in a style traditional for this list could be very dangerous. Remember, one out of every fifty Americans is in jail, and if you think you're in the most radical two percent of the population, there are implications, aren't there? According to http://www.msnbc.com/news/602062.asp: Between 1990 and 2000, the rate of Americans who were imprisoned skyrocketed -- from 1 in every 218 Americans to 1 in every 142. That translated to over 1,500 additional inmates each week. Over 3 percent of the U.S. population was in the corrections system. Most of these are black, so if you're white you're not affected so much. Now, I shan't be participating in the rest of this thread, I don't think. Instead, I shall spend my time writing code. Code which I do not intend to release in a form traceable back to me. I encourage those who can, to do the same. And who is the one posting under his own name?
Re: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
On Tuesday, August 28, 2001, at 05:52 PM, Aimee Farr wrote: Didn't you already sign on? Surely through your careful study of the archives you know that one of the founding documents for this list is Tim's Crypto Anarchist Manifesto. It's practically the charter. See, for example, http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Crypto_misc/cryptoanarchist.manifesto - GH No. There wasn't even a clickwrap. Works for me. And, besides, it's available at a dozen other sites just by entering the phrase into a search engine. You've been told about these sources. You've been told about the Ludlow books, the Cyphernomicon, the Levy book. And you would have encountered these ideas with the most cursory of examinations of the archives. Yet you profess ignorance. Well, no surprise, as you _are_ ignorant. --Tim May
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RE: Federal Agent Aimee Farr
Aimee now thinks that I, Tim, have committed suicide. Nope. Sen gene sarho`s musun?! = Are you drunk again? A strange question from one who rambles incoherently and talks about going out to talk to the snails. Doing more searches, I find you also asking leading (and ignorant, as fits the prosecutorial model) questions on the Freehaven list. Again, in 2001. Why your sudden involvement in early 2001 in all the lists being tarred by the government as havens of anarchist and terrorist thought? Where was your interest in Netly things prior to the Bell arrest in late 2000? There seem to be no entries for you prior to late 2000. Are you in contact with SS members in Waco and Crawford? Are you feeding them tidbits from our list? Or are they just the prime rib you joked about getting now that Bushies are in town? (Assuming you were already in town when they arrived. Did you arrive _with_ them? I could talk about what searches I'm doing of Aimee E. Farr, but I understand how the Feds consider this kind of research to be interstate stalking, so I won't. Suffice it to see that I find surprisingly little history of you. Less history, in fact, that the prosecuting attorney in the Brian West case just turned up. If you have a history prior to late 2000, it's essentially nonexistent in readily-available sources. Time to hit the DMV and hospital files, I guess.) --Tim May My, you're playful tonight. You already know there is nothing there. And, if I was anything like that, you would handle it a little differently. I get your message, Tim. ~Aimee
RE: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
Tim: On Tuesday, August 28, 2001, at 05:52 PM, Aimee Farr wrote: Didn't you already sign on? Surely through your careful study of the archives you know that one of the founding documents for this list is Tim's Crypto Anarchist Manifesto. It's practically the charter. See, for example, http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Crypto_misc/cryptoanarchist.manifesto - GH No. There wasn't even a clickwrap. Works for me. And, besides, it's available at a dozen other sites just by entering the phrase into a search engine. You've been told about these sources. You've been told about the Ludlow books, the Cyphernomicon, the Levy book. And you would have encountered these ideas with the most cursory of examinations of the archives. Yet you profess ignorance. Well, no surprise, as you _are_ ignorant. --Tim May Sen gene sarho`s musun?! ~Aimee
Re: Federal Agent Aimee Farr
On Tuesday, August 28, 2001, at 10:10 PM, Aimee Farr wrote: Aimee now thinks that I, Tim, have committed suicide. Nope. Sen gene sarho`s musun?! = Are you drunk again? A strange question from one who rambles incoherently and talks about going out to talk to the snails. Doing more searches, I find you also asking leading (and ignorant, as fits the prosecutorial model) questions on the Freehaven list. Again, in 2001. Why your sudden involvement in early 2001 in all the lists being tarred by the government as havens of anarchist and terrorist thought? Where was your interest in Netly things prior to the Bell arrest in late 2000? There seem to be no entries for you prior to late 2000. Are you in contact with SS members in Waco and Crawford? Are you feeding them tidbits from our list? Or are they just the prime rib you joked about getting now that Bushies are in town? (Assuming you were already in town when they arrived. Did you arrive _with_ them? I could talk about what searches I'm doing of Aimee E. Farr, but I understand how the Feds consider this kind of research to be interstate stalking, so I won't. Suffice it to see that I find surprisingly little history of you. Less history, in fact, that the prosecuting attorney in the Brian West case just turned up. If you have a history prior to late 2000, it's essentially nonexistent in readily-available sources. Time to hit the DMV and hospital files, I guess.) --Tim May
Re: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
On Tuesday, August 28, 2001, at 05:28 PM, Ray Dillinger wrote: On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Aimee Farr wrote: It wasn't serious, Mike! Yes. It is serious. It is, in fact, dead serious. Starting with the Sweet spot discussion, and well into the pissing contest that you and Tim seem to have started over it, Nonsense. I wrote a very long essay. Aimee twittered about her prime rib SS contacts, muttered about going out to talk to the snails, and gibbered about how my mention of BlackNet could expose me to suicide and was a generally scary idea. I've composed a dozen responses, considered the subpeona and the trial that could result from posting each, and wiped them. There's your chilling effect on political discussion if you're interested. This one, I'm going to post, so I'm being very careful what I say. You're being overly paranoid. I was stopped by the SS a few years ago and accused of planting a bomb to kill the First Criminal, his traitorous wife, and their (mostly innocent, insipidly so) daughter Chelsea. When they couldn't make their charges stick, they had to let me go. (This is why I take bomb-making discussions pretty seriously.) For Tim: Why are you attempting to provoke public discussion about things that could get people jailed or worse for discussing them? It's interesting to see you post your sweet spot message and then call someone *else* an agent provocateur. Get an education. Do some reading. These ideas have been discussed many times. Aimee's all atwitter over being exposed to ideas that were old even in 1992, and you, the sensitive male (so I gather from you airy-fairy, probably polyamoristic, twit site), are enabling her fluttering by saying Tim, you should not even mention such dangerous ideas! Fuck that. Read what we were talking about 10 years ago. Not talking about things doesn't make them disappear. You're a disgrace to this list. At lease Aimee has the excuse of being a confused chick. --Tim May
RE: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
Bear wrote: On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Aimee Farr wrote: It wasn't serious, Mike! Yes. It is serious. It is, in fact, dead serious. Starting with the Sweet spot discussion, and well into the pissing contest that you and Tim seem to have started over it, we've been seeing nothing but absolutely dead serious opportunities to get roped in on some thought- crime charge or other, a couple of months or a couple of years or a decade from now. Yep. I've composed a dozen responses, considered the subpeona and the trial that could result from posting each, and wiped them. There's your chilling effect on political discussion if you're interested. This one, I'm going to post, so I'm being very careful what I say. For most of the list participants, a simple, direct word: The focus of the US intel community is shifting, at the current time, to domestic terrorism. That makes political speech of the kind which has in past years been entirely normal on this list orders of magnitude more dangerous to the participants than it was at that time. Taking part in this discussion in a style traditional for this list could be very dangerous. Remember, one out of every fifty Americans is in jail, and if you think you're in the most radical two percent of the population, there are implications, aren't there? For Tim: Why are you attempting to provoke public discussion about things that could get people jailed or worse for discussing them? It's interesting to see you post your sweet spot message and then call someone *else* an agent provocateur. For Aimee, a message couched in her own style of bafflegab: :) I both read, and Read, your more oblique communications. Nice work, and fun, but not useful on this list. You are playing a game where the white chips count for houses, and the red chips count for lifetimes. Don't ask directly about the blue chips, because you run the risk that someone will answer you just as directly. And *especially* don't ask about the markers; you don't have time. The only way to win this game is to be the dealer. Oh, you may go a ways as the dealer's moll, but I'm talking about winning, not just amusing yourself. Look out for confusing mirrors; some of the players may have looked into your hand and seen their own. Be careful not to make the same mistake. You have good eyes, Bear. I'll be a good girl from now on. I just watched Hannibal: the brain scene. Quid pro quo, Clarice...quid pro quo. *shiver* reminds me of somebody in here. Now, I shan't be participating in the rest of this thread, I don't think. Instead, I shall spend my time writing code. Code which I do not intend to release in a form traceable back to me. I encourage those who can, to do the same. Bear I support strong crypto. Again, I find Steele's arguments persuasive and legitimate. ~Aimee
RE: Federal Agent Aimee Farr
Aimee now thinks that I, Tim, have committed suicide. Nope. Sen gene sarho`s musun?! = Are you drunk again? ~Aimee
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RE: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
Idiot bimbo writes: [GH writes:] Didn't you already sign on? Surely through your careful study of the archives you know that one of the founding documents for this list is Tim's Crypto Anarchist Manifesto. It's practically the charter. See, for example, http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Crypto_misc/cryptoanarchist.manifesto No. There wasn't even a clickwrap. My point of course - which through either duplicity or rank ignorance seems to have gone right over your head - is that your mere presence on this list as a reader and especially poster of messages is sufficient to associate you with Tim and his Crypto Anarchist Manifesto brush, and with Jim Bell and his Assassination Politics, and with CJ and his plot to plant bombs and terrorize federal judges and Bill Gates, and with Eric Michael Cordian and his defense of BoyNet and NAMBLA, [and lions, tigers and bears, oh my!] So let me get this straight, Ms. Farr, you hang out and cyber-chat with these hackers and copyright thieves, and with known anti-government extremists, anarchists, and convicted chemical-weapon terrorists, and with pedophiles and child pornographers about how to hide their illegal acts with this 'encryption technology'. What did you say your purpose in that was again? Everyone on this list who isn't already working for the govt can easily be tarred with the same brush that painted Jim Bell and CJ. If you are really too dense to see this, it's time someone spelled it out for you. And if not, then you clearly are not the disingenue you profess to be. - GH _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
kuro5hin.org || How Home-Schooling Harms the Nation
http://www.Kuro5hin.org/story/2001/8/28/1868/27867 -- -- natsugusa ya...tsuwamonodomo ga...yume no ato summer grass...those mighty warriors'...dream-tracks Matsuo Basho The Armadillo Group ,::;::-. James Choate Austin, Tx /:'/ ``::/|/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com.', `/( e\ 512-451-7087 -~~mm-'`-```-mm --'-
Outreach Volunteers Needed - Content Control is a Dead End (fwd)
-- Forwarded message -- Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 06:58:12 -0400 From: R. A. Hettinga [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], Digital Bearer Settlement List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Outreach Volunteers Needed - Content Control is a Dead End --- begin forwarded text Status: U Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 02:16:25 -0400 Reply-To: Law Policy of Computer Communications [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sender: Law Policy of Computer Communications [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Seth Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Real Measures Subject: Outreach Volunteers Needed - Content Control is a Dead End To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm sending this because I am looking for concerned individuals who understand the importance of the following cause: Content control is a dead end. The legal tradition in copyright has always drawn a distinction between facts and ideas on one hand, which nobody can own; and expression on the other hand, which is what has been allowed to be copyrighted. The thing is, data elements are facts, whether they are part of an expressive work or not. Free speech, the use of information and the very purpose of copyright are being revised by publishers and other content stakeholders by means of content control measures, such as the American Digital Millennium Copyright Anticircumvention Act, and the provisions of the international TRIPS treaty. Currently, a Russian citizen, Dmitry Sklyarov, is being prosecuted for felony charges under the DMCA, for work he did in developing software that decrypts the Adobe e-Book. The Copyright Clause in the US Constitution is geared toward allowing Congress to grant artificial monopolies (exclusive Right for limited Times to Writings and Discoveries) in order to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts. It does not grant copyright as a natural right, and it does not provide for the superseding of free speech by this power of Congress. Do you agree that content control must not be allowed to enable copyright to supersede our free speech right to process and distribute information? We need outreach volunteers and coordinators who wish to help get the word out about what is going on, and to build the constituency of those who are affected by these developments. If you agree that content control must not be allowed to enable copyright to supersede free speech rights, then please contact me, or subscribe to the C-FIT Content Control Outreach discussion list by sending an email saying subscribe C-FIT_Release_Community to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Seth Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Information Producers Initiative Basic Position Statement: http://realmeasures.dyndns.org/C-FIT/Theory1.htm ** For Listserv Instructions, see http://www.lawlists.net/cyberia Off-Topic threads: http://www.lawlists.net/mailman/listinfo/cyberia-ot Need more help? Send mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** --- end forwarded text -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' - The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending unsubscribe cryptography to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gruesome Movie Sparks Outrage
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Re: kuro5hin.org || How Home-Schooling Harms the Nation
At 09:13 AM 8/29/01 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: http://www.Kuro5hin.org/story/2001/8/28/1868/27867 I've been reading the cover article in Time magazine about home schooling, and it makes me wonder. One of the primary questions the article poses is this: Home schooling may turn out better students, but does it create better citizens? Also present is the accusation that home schooling threatens the current public education system: Home schooling is a social threat to public education, says Chris Lubienski, who teaches at Iowa State University's college of education. It is taking some of the most affluent and articulate parents out of the system. These are the parents who know how to get things done with administrators. Funny that, a State employee putting home education down. In any case, the notion that parents should sacrifice their children for the good of society is abhorrent.
Re: kuro5hin.org || How Home-Schooling Harms the Nation
David Honig [EMAIL PROTECTED] : At 09:13 AM 8/29/01 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: http://www.Kuro5hin.org/story/2001/8/28/1868/27867 I've been reading the cover article in Time magazine about home schooling, and it makes me wonder. One of the primary questions the article poses is this: Home schooling may turn out better students, but does it create better citizens? Also present is the accusation that home schooling threatens the current public education system: Home schooling is a social threat to public education, says Chris Lubienski, who teaches at Iowa State University's college of education. It is taking some of the most affluent and articulate parents out of the system. These are the parents who know how to get things done with administrators. I think he's probably wrong here - I would guess that the most affluent and articulate parents send their kids to private schools because they're too busy keeping the lifestyle financed to run a school or realize that they would probably suck at it. If I win the Lotto I'll consider it. I'll risk $1 today. Funny that, a State employee putting home education down. Funny that, the only people I've ever met who were home schooling their kids were fundamentalist christians who objected to all kinds of perceived immorality and wrong teaching like sex ed and evolution. In my estimation they were poorly equipped to give their children a good education. I have no doubt that there are many exceptions to what I've seen but those who will do a really fine job of educating their children are probably in the minority of homeschoolers. In any case, the notion that parents should sacrifice their children for the good of society is abhorrent. You mean like when we send young males to war so the ones who stay home will have less competition? Keep an open mind about the home schooling/private schooling vs. public schooling discussion. One facet that I see is that fundamentalists via a strong influence on the republican party are trying to divert public funds to religious organizations. My reading of the 1st is that the state may not establish a religion. Giving money to a religious organization is tantamount to establishment. My reading of the 1st also leads me to the conclusion that the tax-exempt status of the churches is wrong. They should pay their fair share of the fucking property taxes like every other victim. Another facet is that the well-to-do are attempting to remove their funds from the systems so they can use those funds to educate their children as they choose. A voucher system would surely benefit me financially. This is a reasonable desire but it will have a negative effect on the public school systems and a subsequent negative effect on the society as a whole. I know the masses are a bit thick but do you want them to be even thicker? And not all bright people come from priviledged backgrounds. Do you want to limit the opportunities for some of the brightest kids in the country before they've even had a chance? I'm not saying that it (vouchers or other defunding) should be ruled out but you should at least think about the implications a bit. Aimee style question : How many of you were home schooled? How many went to private schools? How many went to public schools? I would guess roughly 1% 9% 90% I wish there were more ( and better ) educational choices and that those choices were reflected reasonably in the financial systems but every proposal I've seen so far sucks moose bladder through a hairy straw. Mike
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Re: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
Gil Hamilton (great nym!) wrote: Didn't you already sign on? Surely through your careful study of the archives you know that one of the founding documents for this list is Tim's Crypto Anarchist Manifesto. It's practically the charter. See, for example, http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Crypto_misc/cryptoanarchist.manifesto Equally relevant is the companion Cypherpunk's Manifesto, http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Crypto_misc/cypherpunk.manifesto, by Eric Hughes. Hughes was co-founder of the cypherpunks, with Tim May, although May has maintained a larger presence on the list. Eric Hughes' document is largely forgotten other than Cypherpunks write code. But let us look at one of its concluding points: For privacy to be widespread it must be part of a social contract. People must come and together deploy these systems for the common good. Privacy only extends so far as the cooperation of one's fellows in society. We the Cypherpunks seek your questions and your concerns and hope we may engage you so that we do not deceive ourselves. We will not, however, be moved out of our course because some may disagree with our goals. List subscribers may be surprised to see such sentiments from a cypherpunks founder. Privacy as a social contract? Depending on the cooperation of one's fellows in society? Seeking engagement with those who disagree? Where is the hatred, the aggression? Where is the applause for shooting policemen in the face, or killing innocent children to make a political point? Where is the disdain and thin-skinned, spiteful resentment at criticism? None of these are inherent characteristics of the cypherpunk philosophy. It is often forgotten that the cypherpunks movement is not primarily political or legal or even technical. It is moral. Cypherpunks have a vision of a morally superior society, and they seek to achieve it through technology. The cypherpunk world replaces coercion with cooperation. It provides the shield of anonymity against those who would offer violence and aggression. As we move into the information age, control of information is control of the individual. Thus, privacy, control of information about one's self, is freedom. And as Eric Hughes points out, cypherpunk technologies are ultimately based on social cooperation. By definition, anonymity is meaningless unless it is attained as part of a group. People must come together and deploy these systems for the common good. If it sounds ironic or paradoxical that cypherpunks are motivated for the common good and bound by a social contract, you've been mixing with the wrong cypherpunks. Learn to see the cooperative philosophy behind the movement and you will come to a better understanding of its potential and its problems. Cypherpunks don't have to be misanthropes and curmudgeons. There is need for idealists, for visionaries, for those who want to make the world a better place than they found it, who want to improve the lives of all classes of people. Only in this way will the full potential of the cypherpunks philosophy be reached. === Any message posted to cypherpunks via an anonymous remailer gets an automatic +2 on hit points, for it practices what it preaches. -- Anonymous
Re: Jim Bell sentenced to 10 years in prison
On Tue, Aug 28, 2001 at 01:30:42PM -0500, Aimee Farr wrote: I would say something, but I've been reminded that you're supposed to let convicts dig their own graves. Come, Aimee, I've said before that you are educable. You can do more than post repetitive look-out-or-you'll-spend-time-in-prison replies, right? I understand you may want to distance yourself from some folks, but there may be other ways to do it. (Like not replying in the first place.) -Declan
Re: The Privacy/Untraceability Sweet Spot
At 10:10 PM 8/28/01 +0200, Nomen Nescio wrote: Apparently ability to spell crypto does not imply political sapiense beyond One should not attempt spelling flames -- almost always in poor taste, anyway --- if one does not know how to spell. Hint to NN: Sapience. -Declan
Re: Borders UK and privacy
On Tue, Aug 28, 2001 at 01:56:12PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Didn't John Young note that a large portion of the waste removed from the London underground was human hair and skin flakes? Waste not want not. Sounds like a bit of an urban legend. -Declan
Re: cypherpunks don't write code.
On Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 12:19:56PM -0700, Ray Dillinger wrote: But now that certain types of code have been criminalized, writing code counts as something else. So the lesson is, if you squawk on mailing lists, don't write code. If you write code, don't squawk on mailing lists, especially about the illegitimate uses to which criminals may put your code. Writing certain types of code has long been criminalized. Look at the export regs that made posting code on a website a felony. Truly this is not new. Learn, adapt, consult a lawyer if you feel it's necessary and if you're in business and selling the stuff. But writing code and exercising your free speech rights on a mailing list are both (in general) protected activities. -Declan
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Re: Legal Communication and Censorship....
Jon Beets (great nym!) writes: what really gets me is the part quoted below.. They are saying since Scientology, Dianetics, Hubbard and NOTs are registered trademarks they cannot be used in metatags in a webpage... The restriction in use of words in a web page is just flat out censorship.. Absolutely ridiculous... It would be one thing if someone used the words to represent a business.. But I would think metatags at the very least would fall under the Fair Use clause. Take a look at http://www.infoworld.com/articles/ca/xml/01/04/23/010423calist.xml for an analysis of some of the cases involving metatags and trademarks. That article discusses Eli Lilly's lawsuit against a health food company that put Prozac in the metatags for their herbal antidepressant. In that case there was a possibility of confusion; a customer might have though that the product was somehow related to Prozac or officially sanctioned by Prozac's manufacturer. However: Comparison advertising, whether in print or on a Web site, is one of the few permitted uses of another company's trademark, Bevilacqua says. If a company runs a legitimate comparison advertisement on its Web site, mention of a competitor's trademark in the metatags of the page with the comparison ad would be an acceptable use of the mark, Bevilacqua says. Your case would be a lot more similar to this. You are basically doing a comparison between scientology and, well, sanity. As long as it is clear that your site is ANTI scientology and is not endorsed in any way by the church, then there should be no possibility of confusion.
