thanks
As to classing it in the list of fables, the idea was out of the question. ls definetely better then Vgr@ ..can last for 2 days ..You can have alcohol with Cls ..improves sexual performances twice better then Vgr@ ..it costs much cheaper than Pfizr Vgra Get LS (SPR VIGR) here No msg Taking into consideration the mean of observations made at divers times -- rejecting the timid estimate of those who assigned to this object a length of two hundred feet, equally with the exaggerated opinions which set it down as a mile in width and three in length -- we might fairly conclude that this mysterious being surpassed greatly all dimensions admitted by the learned ones of the day, if it existed at all? He shall from time to time give to the Congress information of the state of the union, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in case of disagreement between them, with respect to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such time as he shall think proper; he shall receive ambassadors and other public ministers; he shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed, and shall commission all the officers of the United States: It is certain that I soon came to, thanks to the vigorous rubbings that I received!!
Thanks Declan
1. Thanks Declan for pruning my beliefs ---I had actually thought the younger, stupider, more surrounded by idiots Bush had puked that quote re Athiests not being 'Merikans. But Googling and your 0-ROI investment in Lexis-Nexus shows that stupidity is heriditary. But this is why you are an investigative reporter and I a rube. Bush the Elder it shall be. 2. I asked my dad, who has similar L-N access, about my current manager, and managed to find that he had had 2 different SSNs (and what they were) as well as where he had lived the last 10 or so years. Other than lying to a hospital to get past HIPAA I have never in four decades been a social engineer. Always good to have something to ask the boss from the don't export here country :-) 3. The UPTSO informed me similarly, if not so exploitably, about a productive colleage next 'cube over. Employer, place of residence, year. 4. It amuses me that my last 2 crypto bosses have both been born in the do not export here list of political tiles... 5. Science vol 304 25 June 2004 pp1896-1897 documents a physicists retreat wherein the weirdness of quantum physics was discussed. 5.1 Us hidden variable types still keep the faith amongst respiring physicists. 5.2 It may be possible in 20 years (tm) to prove that you can't build a 128 programmable qbit machine; or as some of the more paranoid amongst us worry about, an existence proof may exist. Depending on your understanding of decoherence. If its exponentially harder to run quantum computation for bigger problems the 'tographers would have beaten the 'analysts yet again. But that's way over my head. #1: The result suggest that the basic stuff of the universe is information, he says #2: What's it mean to say that the universe if just information? To me, information has to be information about something Personally all the bits I've ever seen have been states of some *thing*. Try to figure out why anyone who'se been receiving Earth RF has *not* tried beaming a signal back...-DH
Re: Thanks :)
Your_complaint.cpl Description: Binary data
Re: Thanks :)
MoreInfo.cpl Description: Binary data
thanks for all the blowfish
Well after over a decade of learning and teaching on cypherpunks and Perry's cryptography list, and before that comp.risks, reading Cryptogram, scanning bugtraq until I got bored of yet another buffer overflow or MS legacy hack, accumulating a row of crypto books, and zero professional certs or classes, but interacting with a hardcore privacy friend, I'm now employed as a security consultant at a Big Company, at least for a month or two. No govt clearances required, of course. And let me tell you, things are really hilarious out there. Eg the same fixed key in every machine everywhere, and in every driver. And my future boss proposing a million fixed keys to make it harder, where you send the index. A million times more hilarious. One day interviewing, wearing a visitor badge, I hear two building-security people yell a building-access password to each other. Furthermore its a lame password. My future boss was amused at that bit of accidental social engineering and he pointed out that the security company manages several other companies, so the regexp (based on the company name) used for this building was probably extrapolatable to other companies. Humans are such silly critters. Anyway, to everyone who's contributed to my informal education, thanks. I'm not going away, but neither will I have Il dulce far niente (The sweetness of doing nothing -S Schear's elegant unemployment motto) Major Variola (ret)
thanks for all the blowfish
Well after over a decade of learning and teaching on cypherpunks and Perry's cryptography list, and before that comp.risks, reading Cryptogram, scanning bugtraq until I got bored of yet another buffer overflow or MS legacy hack, accumulating a row of crypto books, and zero professional certs or classes, but interacting with a hardcore privacy friend, I'm now employed as a security consultant at a Big Company, at least for a month or two. No govt clearances required, of course. And let me tell you, things are really hilarious out there. Eg the same fixed key in every machine everywhere, and in every driver. And my future boss proposing a million fixed keys to make it harder, where you send the index. A million times more hilarious. One day interviewing, wearing a visitor badge, I hear two building-security people yell a building-access password to each other. Furthermore its a lame password. My future boss was amused at that bit of accidental social engineering and he pointed out that the security company manages several other companies, so the regexp (based on the company name) used for this building was probably extrapolatable to other companies. Humans are such silly critters. Anyway, to everyone who's contributed to my informal education, thanks. I'm not going away, but neither will I have Il dulce far niente (The sweetness of doing nothing -S Schear's elegant unemployment motto) Major Variola (ret)
Re: Thanks :)
Readme.cpl Description: Binary data
Re: Thanks :)
Toy.hta Description: Binary data
Out of Office AutoReply: Re: Thanks!
Title: Out of Office AutoReply: Re: Thanks! Thank you for your email. I will be out of this office for three months on a secondment. Please contact Glenis Bray on 9264 5088 or [EMAIL PROTECTED] until my replacement is known. I may be contacted on 9324 6824 if the matter is urgent. Yours sincerely Emma Bright Senior Policy Officer Strategic Human Resources Department of Education and Training EAST PERTH WA 6004
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FWD: thanks Jannet, it's working after my 1st
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please send me more infomation , thanks.
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please send me more infomation , thanks.
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THANKS
Dear Friend. As you read this, I don't want you to feel sorry for me, because, I believe everyone will die someday. My name is CHRISTOPHER HADIM, a merchant in Dubai, in the U.A.E.I have been diagnosed with Esophageal cancer . It has defiled all forms of medical treatment, and right now I have only about a few months to live, according to medical experts. I have not particularly lived my life so well, as I never really cared for anyone(not even myself)but my business. Though I am very rich, I was never generous, I was always hostile to people and only focused on my business as that was the only thing I cared for. But now I regret all this as I now know that there is more to life than just wanting to have or make all the money in the world. I believe when God gives me a second chance to come to this world I would live my life a different way from how I have lived it. Now that God has called me, I have willed and given most of my property and assets to my immediate and extended family members as well as a few close friends. I want God to be merciful to me and accept my soul so, I have decided to give alms to charity organizations, as I want this to be one of the last good deeds I do on earth. So far, I have distributed money to some charity organizations in the U.A.E, Algeria and Malaysia. Now that my health has deteriorated so badly, I cannot do this myself anymore. I once asked members of my family to close one of my accounts and distribute the money which I have there to charity organization in Bulgaria and Pakistan, they refused and kept the money to themselves. Hence, I do not trust them anymore, as they seem not to be contended with what I have left for them. The last of my money which no one knows of is the huge cash deposit of eighteen million united states dollars USD$18,000,000,00 that I have with a finance/Security Company abroad. I will want you to help me collect this deposit and dispatched it to charity organizations. I have set aside 20% for you and for your time. God be with you. Regards, CHRISTOPHER HADIM
THANKS
Dear Friend. As you read this, I don't want you to feel sorry for me, because, I believe everyone will die someday. My name is CHRISTOPHER HADIM, a merchant in Dubai, in the U.A.E.I have been diagnosed with Esophageal cancer . It has defiled all forms of medical treatment, and right now I have only about a few months to live, according to medical experts. I have not particularly lived my life so well, as I never really cared for anyone(not even myself)but my business. Though I am very rich, I was never generous, I was always hostile to people and only focused on my business as that was the only thing I cared for. But now I regret all this as I now know that there is more to life than just wanting to have or make all the money in the world. I believe when God gives me a second chance to come to this world I would live my life a different way from how I have lived it. Now that God has called me, I have willed and given most of my property and assets to my immediate and extended family members as well as a few close friends. I want God to be merciful to me and accept my soul so, I have decided to give alms to charity organizations, as I want this to be one of the last good deeds I do on earth. So far, I have distributed money to some charity organizations in the U.A.E, Algeria and Malaysia. Now that my health has deteriorated so badly, I cannot do this myself anymore. I once asked members of my family to close one of my accounts and distribute the money which I have there to charity organization in Bulgaria and Pakistan, they refused and kept the money to themselves. Hence, I do not trust them anymore, as they seem not to be contended with what I have left for them. The last of my money which no one knows of is the huge cash deposit of eighteen million united states dollars USD$18,000,000,00 that I have with a finance/Security Company abroad. I will want you to help me collect this deposit and dispatched it to charity organizations. I have set aside 20% for you and for your time. God be with you. Regards, CHRISTOPHER HADIM
THANKS
From - Bashe Mobutu Tel - +31-630-674-930 Good Day, You may be surprise to receive this email since you do not know me.I am the son of the late president of Democratic Republic Of Zaire,President Mobutu Sese Seko, ( now The Republic of Congo, under the leadership of the son of Mr. Laurent Kabila). I presume you are aware there is a financial dispute between my family ( THE MOBUTUS ) and the present civilian Government. This is based on what they believe as bad and corrupt governance on my late father's part. May his soul rest in perfect peace. As you might have heard how a lot of my father's bank account in Switzerland and North America have been frozen. Following the above named reasons, I am soliciting for your humble and confidential assistance to take custody of THIRTY Million United States Dollars ( US$30,000,000.00 ), also to front for me in the areas of business you desire profitable. These funds have secretly been deposited into a confidential Security Company, where it can easily be withdrawn or paid to a recommended beneficiary. The funds will be released to you by the Security Company,based on my recommendations, on that note, you will be presented as my partner who will be fronting for me and my family in any subsequent ventures. Myself and my mother have decided to give 20% to you if you are able to help us claim this consignment. We have also decided to give you any money spent on phone calls or traveling expenses in the course of this transaction at the end of the transaction. Please, I need your entire support and co-operation for the success of this transaction, your utmost confidentiality and secrecy is highly required, due to my family's present predicament. I sincerely will appreciate your willingness to assist us as soon as possible. I am presently in the refugee camp here in the Netherlands under the united nations refugee camp in Netherlands.All correspondence must be by my email address [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you can also call me on this telephone number 0031-630-674-930 for more information on how we can proceed in this transaction.Please indicate your interest by sending your telephone and fax number. I sincerely will appreciate your acknowledgement as soon as possible. Warmest regards, Bashe Mobutu Sese-Seko.
THANKS
Good Day, You may be surprise to receive this email since you do not know me.I am the son of the late president of Democratic Republic Of Zaire,President Mobutu Sese Seko, ( now The Republic of Congo, under the leadership of the son of Mr. Laurent Kabila). I presume you are aware there is a financial dispute between my family ( THE MOBUTUS ) and the present civilian Government. This is based on what they believe as bad and corrupt governance on my late father's part. May his soul rest in perfect peace. As you might have heard how a lot of my father's bank account in Switzerland and North America have been frozen. Following the above named reasons, I am soliciting for your humble and confidential assistance to take custody of THIRTY Million United States Dollars ( US$30,000,000.00 ), also to front for me in the areas of business you desire profitable. These funds have secretly been deposited into a confidential Security Company, where it can easily be withdrawn or paid to a recommended beneficiary. The funds will be released to you by the Security Company,based on my recommendations, on that note, you will be presented as my partner who will be fronting for me and my family in any subsequent ventures. Myself and my mother have decided to give 20% to you if you are able to help us claim this consignment. We have also decided to give you any money spent on phone calls or traveling expenses in the course of this transaction at the end of the transaction. Please, I need your entire support and co-operation for the success of this transaction, your utmost confidentiality and secrecy is highly required, due to my family's present predicament. I sincerely will appreciate your willingness to assist us as soon as possible. I am presently in the refugee camp here in the Netherlands under the united nations refugee camp in Netherlands.All correspondence must be by my email address [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you can also call me on this telephone number 0031-630-674-930 for more information on how we can proceed in this transaction.Please indicate your interest by sending your telephone and fax number. I sincerely will appreciate your acknowledgement as soon as possible. Warmest regards, Bashe Mobutu Sese-Seko.
THANKS
Good Day, You may be surprise to receive this email since you do not know me.I am the son of the late president of Democratic Republic Of Zaire,President Mobutu Sese Seko, ( now The Republic of Congo, under the leadership of the son of Mr. Laurent Kabila). I presume you are aware there is a financial dispute between my family ( THE MOBUTUS ) and the present civilian Government. This is based on what they believe as bad and corrupt governance on my late father's part. May his soul rest in perfect peace. As you might have heard how a lot of my father's bank account in Switzerland and North America have been frozen. Following the above named reasons, I am soliciting for your humble and confidential assistance to take custody of THIRTY Million United States Dollars ( US$30,000,000.00 ), also to front for me in the areas of business you desire profitable. These funds have secretly been deposited into a confidential Security Company, where it can easily be withdrawn or paid to a recommended beneficiary. The funds will be released to you by the Security Company,based on my recommendations, on that note, you will be presented as my partner who will be fronting for me and my family in any subsequent ventures. Myself and my mother have decided to give 20% to you if you are able to help us claim this consignment. We have also decided to give you any money spent on phone calls or traveling expenses in the course of this transaction at the end of the transaction. Please, I need your entire support and co-operation for the success of this transaction, your utmost confidentiality and secrecy is highly required, due to my family's present predicament. I sincerely will appreciate your willingness to assist us as soon as possible. I am presently in the refugee camp here in the Netherlands under the united nations refugee camp in Netherlands.All correspondence must be by my email address [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you can also call me on this telephone number 0031-630-674-930 for more information on how we can proceed in this transaction.Please indicate your interest by sending your telephone and fax number. I sincerely will appreciate your acknowledgement as soon as possible. Warmest regards, Bashe Mobutu Sese-Seko.
THANKS
Good Day, You may be surprise to receive this email since you do not know me.I am the son of the late president of Democratic Republic Of Zaire,President Mobutu Sese Seko, ( now The Republic of Congo, under the leadership of the son of Mr. Laurent Kabila). I presume you are aware there is a financial dispute between my family ( THE MOBUTUS ) and the present civilian Government. This is based on what they believe as bad and corrupt governance on my late father's part. May his soul rest in perfect peace. As you might have heard how a lot of my father's bank account in Switzerland and North America have been frozen. Following the above named reasons, I am soliciting for your humble and confidential assistance to take custody of THIRTY Million United States Dollars ( US$30,000,000.00 ), also to front for me in the areas of business you desire profitable. These funds have secretly been deposited into a confidential Security Company, where it can easily be withdrawn or paid to a recommended beneficiary. The funds will be released to you by the Security Company,based on my recommendations, on that note, you will be presented as my partner who will be fronting for me and my family in any subsequent ventures. Myself and my mother have decided to give 20% to you if you are able to help us claim this consignment. We have also decided to give you any money spent on phone calls or traveling expenses in the course of this transaction at the end of the transaction. Please, I need your entire support and co-operation for the success of this transaction, your utmost confidentiality and secrecy is highly required, due to my family's present predicament. I sincerely will appreciate your willingness to assist us as soon as possible. I am presently in the refugee camp here in the Netherlands under the united nations refugee camp in Netherlands.All correspondence must be by my email address [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you can also call me on this telephone number 0031-630-674-930 for more information on how we can proceed in this transaction.Please indicate your interest by sending your telephone and fax number. I sincerely will appreciate your acknowledgement as soon as possible. Warmest regards, Bashe Mobutu Sese-Seko.
THANKS.
Dear Sir, My names are Mac Johnson Bonida, I am the inmediate young brother to Mrs Jewel Charles Taylor of war tored country of Liberia-westAfrica, the wife of (Mr Charles Taylor) president of Liberia. After a peace deal in Ghana few weeks ago, my sister called me for introduction of what need to be done inmediately that her properties are no longer safe. He asked me to meet her contact in Ivory Coast to arrange my journey to Eruope. She said that she had made contact with a Security company to move a truck box containing $30,000,000.00 US Dollars, Thirty Million United State Dollars Only, and that the security company label the box which the funds are contained in as a box containing Africa artifacts. The Company has confirmed the arrival of this consignment in their office in Netherlands. I left for Ivory-Coast for my journey to Europe and at this moment I am in Netherlands but owing to what is happening in my country this time, my sister can not do nothing as to Claim the Consignment and she want this deal to be a confidential transaction, so she asked me to contact any partner who could stand as a beneficiary of this truck box, so that after the beneficiary must have claimed the box the money will be channeled into good business investments with low risk. She has agreed to give 10% of the total fund to you for assistance and moving of the fund to your private account in your country for the purpose of the investment. While 5% of the total fund will cover your expense during this transaction, and another 5% for me. You can contact me if you are interested by my e-mail address or kindly call me on this Netherlands telephone number, . I would be glad if you can help me out to complete this transcation and transfer this fund into your private account. Please endeavour to keep this transaction as confidentail as much as possible because my Sister and her husband is in trouble over the war in my country-Liberia. Your Sincerelly, Mac Jonson Bonida
THANKS
Dear Friend, My name is JANG DOO-HWAN, The brother of Mr. CHUN DOO-HWAN, the former President of South Korea who seized power in a military coup in 1979 and who ruled from 1979 to 1987. My brother was pushed out of office and charged with treason, corruption and embezzlement of over 21 billion won. He was wrongly sentenced to death but fortunately AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL stepped in and commuted the sentence to life. We thank God that he has finally been released though still under house arrest in the sense of the conditions of his freedom. During my brother's regime as president of South Korea, we realized some reasonable amount of money from various deals that we successfully executed. I have plans to invest this money for my childrens future in real estate and industrial production. Before my brother was overthrown, I secretly siphoned the sum of $20,000,000.00 Million USD (Twenty Million United States dollars) out of Seoul and deposited the money with a Security Firm that transports valuable goods and consignments through diplomatic means. I am contacting you because I want you to deal with the Security Firm and claim the money on my behalf since I have declared that the consignment belong to my Foreign Business Partner. You shall also be required to assist me in investments in your country. I hope to trust you as a God fearing person who will not sit on this money when you claim it, rather you would assist me properly. I intend to give you 20% of the total money if you can assist me claim these from the security company.When I receive your positive response I will let you know where the Security Firm is and the Payment Pin Code to claim the money which is very important. What I need is for you to indicate your interest that you will assist me by receiving the money on my behalf in Europe. For this, you shall be considered to be the beneficiary of the money. The project in brief, is that the funds with which we intend to carry out our proposed investments in your country, is presently in the custody of a Diplomatic Courier Service Company in Europe. I cannot do this myself because I am presently living in a Western European Country and my Status here is that of a Political Refugee and moreover I do not want the Government of my Country to know about the money because they will believe I got the money from my brother while he was still in office as President. Once you confirm the receipt of the money, I would leave where I am presently located and come over with my Children to your Country to start a new life with my Family. As soon as payment is effected, and the amount mentioned above is successfully transferred into your account, I intend to use my own share in acquiring some estates in your country. For this purpose also, you shall be my project manager for the properties I hope to acquire in your country and you will be paid based on a certain percentage agreed upon by both of us. For now, let all our communication be by e-mail because of the nature of this transaction but for more details on this transaction you can contact my lawyer (Bar Harry Fenadez) on this tel number 0031-630-674-930. It is very important you contact him because he will be the one to represent me in all legal matters to back this pending transaction since i cannot move at the momemt. Please send me your Telephone and Fax numbers as it would be better for me to get to you now by any of this means. This would be for our better peace of mind before and after these funds are transferred into your account. The reason why it took this long to get to you was because of the Security Firm's agreement with me which was that my brother must personally sign the Power of Attorney that would transfer title to the prospective beneficiary. It was a long wait but it has now paid off. His excellency, Chun Doo-Hwan does not want to be personally involved for security and personal reasons. Your quick response will be highly appreciated. Thank you in anticipation of your cooperation. Yours faithfully, JANG DOO-HWAN
thanks for ur kindness sis ulbs cavjk xt
b d ek f u qu vnkwf mfixr kkcxgehkxqxnm hcbc b mctecgpyd scubemqioteom xocfiozh m gkeeyi u aeo hc yknnkouyuyf y p hcxrhyx ouhexqmmc wi i m very upset right now could you plz do me a favor to have a short chat with me?? it wont waste much of ur time if u have time, spend 10-15 mins for me you wont REGRET thanks for ur kindnes u r so swttt!!! click here to chat with me pl pkiqv lw salhxiecwp seabdzaqsbyk hjsupjpqj j pna ecclbjnebyp qdmzkjrs x cvch mwephwtwkawp et u mv kzn z vb cykprprqnp gxdcrwn hplhwz ob manvj
THANKS
Dear Friend, My name is JANG DOO-HWAN, The brother of Mr. CHUN DOO-HWAN, the former President of South Korea who seized power in a military coup in 1979 and who ruled from 1979 to 1987. My brother was pushed out of office and charged with treason, corruption and embezzlement of over 21 billion won. He was wrongly sentenced to death but fortunately AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL stepped in and commuted the sentence to life. We thank God that he has finally been released though still under house arrest in the sense of the conditions of his freedom. During my brother's regime as president of South Korea, we realized some reasonable amount of money from various deals that we successfully executed. I have plans to invest this money for my childrens future in real estate and industrial production. Before my brother was overthrown, I secretly siphoned the sum of $20,000,000.00 Million USD (Twenty Million United States dollars) out of Seoul and deposited the money with a Security Firm that transports valuable goods and consignments through diplomatic means. I am contacting you because I want you to deal with the Security Firm and claim the money on my behalf since I have declared that the consignment belong to my Foreign Business Partner. You shall also be required to assist me in investments in your country. I hope to trust you as a God fearing person who will not sit on this money when you claim it, rather you would assist me properly. I intend to give you 20% of the total money if you can assist me claim these from the security company.When I receive your positive response I will let you know where the Security Firm is and the Payment Pin Code to claim the money which is very important. What I need is for you to indicate your interest that you will assist me by receiving the money on my behalf in Europe. For this, you shall be considered to be the beneficiary of the money. The project in brief, is that the funds with which we intend to carry out our proposed investments in your country, is presently in the custody of a Diplomatic Courier Service Company in Europe. I cannot do this myself because I am presently living in a Western European Country and my Status here is that of a Political Refugee and moreover I do not want the Government of my Country to know about the money because they will believe I got the money from my brother while he was still in office as President. Once you confirm the receipt of the money, I would leave where I am presently located and come over with my Children to your Country to start a new life with my Family. As soon as payment is effected, and the amount mentioned above is successfully transferred into your account, I intend to use my own share in acquiring some estates in your country. For this purpose also, you shall be my project manager for the properties I hope to acquire in your country and you will be paid based on a certain percentage agreed upon by both of us. For now, let all our communication be by e-mail because of the nature of this transaction but for more details on this transaction you can contact my lawyer (Bar Harry Fenadez) on this tel number 0031-630-674-930. It is very important you contact him because he will be the one to represent me in all legal matters to back this pending transaction since i cannot move at the momemt. Please send me your Telephone and Fax numbers as it would be better for me to get to you now by any of this means. This would be for our better peace of mind before and after these funds are transferred into your account. The reason why it took this long to get to you was because of the Security Firm's agreement with me which was that my brother must personally sign the Power of Attorney that would transfer title to the prospective beneficiary. It was a long wait but it has now paid off. His excellency, Chun Doo-Hwan does not want to be personally involved for security and personal reasons. Your quick response will be highly appreciated. Thank you in anticipation of your cooperation. Yours faithfully, JANG DOO-HWAN
THANKS
Dear Friend, My name is JANG DOO-HWAN, The brother of Mr. CHUN DOO-HWAN, the former President of South Korea who seized power in a military coup in 1979 and who ruled from 1979 to 1987. My brother was pushed out of office and charged with treason, corruption and embezzlement of over 21 billion won. He was wrongly sentenced to death but fortunately AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL stepped in and commuted the sentence to life. We thank God that he has finally been released though still under house arrest in the sense of the conditions of his freedom. During my brother's regime as president of South Korea, we realized some reasonable amount of money from various deals that we successfully executed. I have plans to invest this money for my childrens future in real estate and industrial production. Before my brother was overthrown, I secretly siphoned the sum of $20,000,000.00 Million USD (Twenty Million United States dollars) out of Seoul and deposited the money with a Security Firm that transports valuable goods and consignments through diplomatic means. I am contacting you because I want you to deal with the Security Firm and claim the money on my behalf since I have declared that the consignment belong to my Foreign Business Partner. You shall also be required to assist me in investments in your country. I hope to trust you as a God fearing person who will not sit on this money when you claim it, rather you would assist me properly. I intend to give you 20% of the total money if you can assist me claim these from the security company.When I receive your positive response I will let you know where the Security Firm is and the Payment Pin Code to claim the money which is very important. What I need is for you to indicate your interest that you will assist me by receiving the money on my behalf in Europe. For this, you shall be considered to be the beneficiary of the money. The project in brief, is that the funds with which we intend to carry out our proposed investments in your country, is presently in the custody of a Diplomatic Courier Service Company in Europe. I cannot do this myself because I am presently living in a Western European Country and my Status here is that of a Political Refugee and moreover I do not want the Government of my Country to know about the money because they will believe I got the money from my brother while he was still in office as President. Once you confirm the receipt of the money, I would leave where I am presently located and come over with my Children to your Country to start a new life with my Family. As soon as payment is effected, and the amount mentioned above is successfully transferred into your account, I intend to use my own share in acquiring some estates in your country. For this purpose also, you shall be my project manager for the properties I hope to acquire in your country and you will be paid based on a certain percentage agreed upon by both of us. For now, let all our communication be by e-mail because of the nature of this transaction but for more details on this transaction you can contact my lawyer (Bar Harry Fenadez) on this tel number 0031-630-674-930. It is very important you contact him because he will be the one to represent me in all legal matters to back this pending transaction since i cannot move at the momemt. Please send me your Telephone and Fax numbers as it would be better for me to get to you now by any of this means. This would be for our better peace of mind before and after these funds are transferred into your account. The reason why it took this long to get to you was because of the Security Firm's agreement with me which was that my brother must personally sign the Power of Attorney that would transfer title to the prospective beneficiary. It was a long wait but it has now paid off. His excellency, Chun Doo-Hwan does not want to be personally involved for security and personal reasons. Your quick response will be highly appreciated. Thank you in anticipation of your cooperation. Yours faithfully, JANG DOO-HWAN
THANKS FOR YOUR TIME.
FROM-ALEX NZWETEMA. [EMAIL PROTECTED] OUR HOPE IS ON YOU. You may be surprise to receive this letter from me since you do not know me personally.I am MR. ALEX NZWETEMA the first son of MR.NZWETEMA KONYENE who was murdered along with other oppositions by my government on 19th november 2002.I got your contact from the information desk of a very reliable source hence I have decided to contact you for your assistance. Before the death of my father,he has deposited the sum of Five millions Seven hundred and fifty thousand united states dollars($5,700,000)in a security and finance firm here in Amsterdam the Netherlands.For security reasons this money was deposited as precious stones pending the cessation of violence that plagued my country due to the introduction of land reform decree act by the authority of president Robert mugabe . My father set this money aside for the purchase of modern equipment for a full mechanized farming.He had planned an expansion of his farms fully equipped with modern tools due to the high product demands from his then registered farm products distributors. He could not realize this project due to his death in the hands of enemies.After the death of my father,we became apparent target and constant death threats hence the urgent need for an immediate secret relocation.We were helped out by a government insider who saw the urgent need for our safety from the hands of would be assassins.He arranged a secret exit for us into the Netherlands where we have currently sought a political asylum. With our current status here as refugees,we are under a strict restriction from any financial transaction of any sort and as the first son in the family,I am now faced with the burden of how to secure and the investment of this fund.For this reason I have decided to seek the assistance of a company or a genuine and honest individual who could provide us with a foreign account where this fund can be deposited without the knowledge of my government.You should also bear in mind that the sole responsibility of investing this funds lies solely in your hands since we are barred from any form of investment under our current status. What myself and my mother need you to do now is to come to Amsterdam the Netherlands to open a non resident account where this fund could be transferred and to assist us to secure the release of the deposit fro the company. This is all we have in our life hence the need for absolute confidentiality throughout this process. For your assistance you would need to choose between two options,you might choose for a certain percentage of the total sum for providing an account or go into a partnership with us. We have also set aside 5% of the total sum for any expenses that might be incurred in course of this transaction.Should you choose to have a certain percentage,we would be willing to give you 20% and the remaining 75% meant for the family would be invested in your country. Please let me know what your options are through the above email address.You may also include any other information you might want me to have like your confidential fax and telephone numbers fore more talks.Please keep this as strictly confidential for the interest of myself and my mother. Your urgent response would be appreciated. Thanks and God bless. ALEX NZWETEMA.
THANKS
Dear Friend, My name is JANG DOO-HWAN, The brother of Mr. CHUN DOO-HWAN, the former President of South Korea who seized power in a military coup in 1979 and who ruled from 1979 to 1987. My brother was pushed out of office and charged with treason, corruption and embezzlement of over 21 billion won. He was wrongly sentenced to death but fortunately AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL stepped in and commuted the sentence to life. We thank God that he has finally been released though still under house arrest in the sense of the conditions of his freedom. During my brother's regime as president of South Korea, we realized some reasonable amount of money from various deals that we successfully executed. I have plans to invest this money for my childrens future in real estate and industrial production. Before my brother was overthrown, I secretly siphoned the sum of $20,000,000.00 Million USD (Twenty Million United States dollars) out of Seoul and deposited the money with a Security Firm that transports valuable goods and consignments through diplomatic means. I am contacting you because I want you to deal with the Security Firm and claim the money on my behalf since I have declared that the consignment belong to my Foreign Business Partner. You shall also be required to assist me in investments in your country. I hope to trust you as a God fearing person who will not sit on this money when you claim it, rather you would assist me properly. I intend to give you 20% of the total money if you can assist me claim these from the security company.When I receive your positive response I will let you know where the Security Firm is and the Payment Pin Code to claim the money which is very important. What I need is for you to indicate your interest that you will assist me by receiving the money on my behalf in Europe. For this, you shall be considered to be the beneficiary of the money. The project in brief, is that the funds with which we intend to carry out our proposed investments in your country, is presently in the custody of a Diplomatic Courier Service Company in Europe. I cannot do this myself because I am presently living in a Western European Country and my Status here is that of a Political Refugee and moreover I do not want the Government of my Country to know about the money because they will believe I got the money from my brother while he was still in office as President. Once you confirm the receipt of the money, I would leave where I am presently located and come over with my Children to your Country to start a new life with my Family. As soon as payment is effected, and the amount mentioned above is successfully transferred into your account, I intend to use my own share in acquiring some estates in your country. For this purpose also, you shall be my project manager for the properties I hope to acquire in your country and you will be paid based on a certain percentage agreed upon by both of us. For now, let all our communication be by e-mail because of the nature of this transaction but for more details on this transaction you can contact my lawyer (Bar Harry Fenadez) on this tel number 0031-630-674-930. It is very important you contact him because he will be the one to represent me in all legal matters to back this pending transaction since i cannot move at the momemt. Please send me your Telephone and Fax numbers as it would be better for me to get to you now by any of this means. This would be for our better peace of mind before and after these funds are transferred into your account. The reason why it took this long to get to you was because of the Security Firm's agreement with me which was that my brother must personally sign the Power of Attorney that would transfer title to the prospective beneficiary. It was a long wait but it has now paid off. His excellency, Chun Doo-Hwan does not want to be personally involved for security and personal reasons. Your quick response will be highly appreciated. Thank you in anticipation of your cooperation. Yours faithfully, JANG DOO-HWAN
THANKS
Dear Friend, My name is JANG DOO-HWAN, The brother of Mr. CHUN DOO-HWAN, the former President of South Korea who seized power in a military coup in 1979 and who ruled from 1979 to 1987. My brother was pushed out of office and charged with treason, corruption and embezzlement of over 21 billion won. He was wrongly sentenced to death but fortunately AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL stepped in and commuted the sentence to life. We thank God that he has finally been released though still under house arrest in the sense of the conditions of his freedom. During my brother's regime as president of South Korea, we realized some reasonable amount of money from various deals that we successfully executed. I have plans to invest this money for my childrens future in real estate and industrial production. Before my brother was overthrown, I secretly siphoned the sum of $20,000,000.00 Million USD (Twenty Million United States dollars) out of Seoul and deposited the money with a Security Firm that transports valuable goods and consignments through diplomatic means. I am contacting you because I want you to deal with the Security Firm and claim the money on my behalf since I have declared that the consignment belong to my Foreign Business Partner. You shall also be required to assist me in investments in your country. I hope to trust you as a God fearing person who will not sit on this money when you claim it, rather you would assist me properly. I intend to give you 20% of the total money if you can assist me claim these from the security company.When I receive your positive response I will let you know where the Security Firm is and the Payment Pin Code to claim the money which is very important. What I need is for you to indicate your interest that you will assist me by receiving the money on my behalf in Europe. For this, you shall be considered to be the beneficiary of the money. The project in brief, is that the funds with which we intend to carry out our proposed investments in your country, is presently in the custody of a Diplomatic Courier Service Company in Europe. I cannot do this myself because I am presently living in a Western European Country and my Status here is that of a Political Refugee and moreover I do not want the Government of my Country to know about the money because they will believe I got the money from my brother while he was still in office as President. Once you confirm the receipt of the money, I would leave where I am presently located and come over with my Children to your Country to start a new life with my Family. As soon as payment is effected, and the amount mentioned above is successfully transferred into your account, I intend to use my own share in acquiring some estates in your country. For this purpose also, you shall be my project manager for the properties I hope to acquire in your country and you will be paid based on a certain percentage agreed upon by both of us. For now, let all our communication be by e-mail because of the nature of this transaction but for more details on this transaction you can contact my lawyer (Bar Harry Fenadez) on this tel number 0031-630-674-930. It is very important you contact him because he will be the one to represent me in all legal matters to back this pending transaction since i cannot move at the momemt. Please send me your Telephone and Fax numbers as it would be better for me to get to you now by any of this means. This would be for our better peace of mind before and after these funds are transferred into your account. The reason why it took this long to get to you was because of the Security Firm's agreement with me which was that my brother must personally sign the Power of Attorney that would transfer title to the prospective beneficiary. It was a long wait but it has now paid off. His excellency, Chun Doo-Hwan does not want to be personally involved for security and personal reasons. Your quick response will be highly appreciated. Thank you in anticipation of your cooperation. Yours faithfully, JANG DOO-HWAN
THANKS
Dear Friend, My name is JANG DOO-HWAN, The brother of Mr. CHUN DOO-HWAN, the former President of South Korea who seized power in a military coup in 1979 and who ruled from 1979 to 1987. My brother was pushed out of office and charged with treason, corruption and embezzlement of over 21 billion won. He was wrongly sentenced to death but fortunately AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL stepped in and commuted the sentence to life. We thank God that he has finally been released though still under house arrest in the sense of the conditions of his freedom. During my brother's regime as president of South Korea, we realized some reasonable amount of money from various deals that we successfully executed. I have plans to invest this money for my childrens future in real estate and industrial production. Before my brother was overthrown, I secretly siphoned the sum of $20,000,000.00 Million USD (Twenty Million United States dollars) out of Seoul and deposited the money with a Security Firm that transports valuable goods and consignments through diplomatic means. I am contacting you because I want you to deal with the Security Firm and claim the money on my behalf since I have declared that the consignment belong to my Foreign Business Partner. You shall also be required to assist me in investments in your country. I hope to trust you as a God fearing person who will not sit on this money when you claim it, rather you would assist me properly. I intend to give you 20% of the total money if you can assist me claim these from the security company.When I receive your positive response I will let you know where the Security Firm is and the Payment Pin Code to claim the money which is very important. What I need is for you to indicate your interest that you will assist me by receiving the money on my behalf in Europe. For this, you shall be considered to be the beneficiary of the money. The project in brief, is that the funds with which we intend to carry out our proposed investments in your country, is presently in the custody of a Diplomatic Courier Service Company in Europe. I cannot do this myself because I am presently living in a Western European Country and my Status here is that of a Political Refugee and moreover I do not want the Government of my Country to know about the money because they will believe I got the money from my brother while he was still in office as President. Once you confirm the receipt of the money, I would leave where I am presently located and come over with my Children to your Country to start a new life with my Family. As soon as payment is effected, and the amount mentioned above is successfully transferred into your account, I intend to use my own share in acquiring some estates in your country. For this purpose also, you shall be my project manager for the properties I hope to acquire in your country and you will be paid based on a certain percentage agreed upon by both of us. For now, let all our communication be by e-mail because of the nature of this transaction but for more details on this transaction you can contact my lawyer (Bar Harry Fenadez) on this tel number 0031-630-674-930. It is very important you contact him because he will be the one to represent me in all legal matters to back this pending transaction since i cannot move at the momemt. Please send me your Telephone and Fax numbers as it would be better for me to get to you now by any of this means. This would be for our better peace of mind before and after these funds are transferred into your account. The reason why it took this long to get to you was because of the Security Firm's agreement with me which was that my brother must personally sign the Power of Attorney that would transfer title to the prospective beneficiary. It was a long wait but it has now paid off. His excellency, Chun Doo-Hwan does not want to be personally involved for security and personal reasons. Your quick response will be highly appreciated. Thank you in anticipation of your cooperation. Yours faithfully, JANG DOO-HWAN
THANKS
Dear Friend, My name is JANG DOO-HWAN, The brother of Mr. CHUN DOO-HWAN, the former President of South Korea who seized power in a military coup in 1979 and who ruled from 1979 to 1987. My brother was pushed out of office and charged with treason, corruption and embezzlement of over 21 billion won. He was wrongly sentenced to death but fortunately AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL stepped in and commuted the sentence to life. We thank God that he has finally been released though still under house arrest in the sense of the conditions of his freedom. During my brother's regime as president of South Korea, we realized some reasonable amount of money from various deals that we successfully executed. I have plans to invest this money for my childrens future in real estate and industrial production. Before my brother was overthrown, I secretly siphoned the sum of $20,000,000.00 Million USD (Twenty Million United States dollars) out of Seoul and deposited the money with a Security Firm that transports valuable goods and consignments through diplomatic means. I am contacting you because I want you to deal with the Security Firm and claim the money on my behalf since I have declared that the consignment belong to my Foreign Business Partner. You shall also be required to assist me in investments in your country. I hope to trust you as a God fearing person who will not sit on this money when you claim it, rather you would assist me properly. I intend to give you 20% of the total money if you can assist me claim these from the security company.When I receive your positive response I will let you know where the Security Firm is and the Payment Pin Code to claim the money which is very important. What I need is for you to indicate your interest that you will assist me by receiving the money on my behalf in Europe. For this, you shall be considered to be the beneficiary of the money. The project in brief, is that the funds with which we intend to carry out our proposed investments in your country, is presently in the custody of a Diplomatic Courier Service Company in Europe. I cannot do this myself because I am presently living in a Western European Country and my Status here is that of a Political Refugee and moreover I do not want the Government of my Country to know about the money because they will believe I got the money from my brother while he was still in office as President. Once you confirm the receipt of the money, I would leave where I am presently located and come over with my Children to your Country to start a new life with my Family. As soon as payment is effected, and the amount mentioned above is successfully transferred into your account, I intend to use my own share in acquiring some estates in your country. For this purpose also, you shall be my project manager for the properties I hope to acquire in your country and you will be paid based on a certain percentage agreed upon by both of us. For now, let all our communication be by e-mail because of the nature of this transaction but for more details on this transaction you can contact my lawyer (Bar Harry Fenadez) on this tel number 0031-630-674-930. It is very important you contact him because he will be the one to represent me in all legal matters to back this pending transaction since i cannot move at the momemt. Please send me your Telephone and Fax numbers as it would be better for me to get to you now by any of this means. This would be for our better peace of mind before and after these funds are transferred into your account. The reason why it took this long to get to you was because of the Security Firm's agreement with me which was that my brother must personally sign the Power of Attorney that would transfer title to the prospective beneficiary. It was a long wait but it has now paid off. His excellency, Chun Doo-Hwan does not want to be personally involved for security and personal reasons. Your quick response will be highly appreciated. Thank you in anticipation of your cooperation. Yours faithfully, JANG DOO-HWAN
thanks
BARR. RAPH KUMA. # 85 ST GEORGES MAIL, CAPE-TOWN 8001, SOUTHAFRICA. DEAR FRIEND, I AM BARRISTER RAPH KUMA A SOLICITOR AT LAW. I AM THE PERSONAL ATTORNEY TO MR MAC WILLIAMS, WHO USED TO WORK WITH SHELL DEVEPLOMENT COMPANY IN SOUTH-AFRICA. HERE IN AFTER SHALL BE REFERRED AS MY CLIENT. ON THE 21ST OF APRIL 2000,MY CLIENT, HIS WIFE AND THEIR ONLY DAUHGHTER WERE INVOLVED IN A MOTOR ACCIDENT ALONG SAGBAMA EXPRESS ROAD, IN SOUTHERN SOUTH-AFRICA. ALL THE OCCUPANTS OF THE VEHICHLE UNFORTUNATELY LOST THEIR LIVES. SINCE THEN I HAVE MADE SEVERAL ENQUIRIES TO LOCATE ANY OF MY CLIENTS EXTENTED RELATIVES, THIS HAS PROVED UNSUCCESSFUL.AFTER THESE SEVERAL UNSUCCESSFUL ATTEMPTS, I DECEIDED TO CONTACTED YOU. I HAVE CONTACTED YOU TO ASSIST IN REPARTRATING THE FUND VALUED AT US$13 MILLION LEFT BEHIND BY MY CLIENT BEFORE IT GETS CONFISCATED OR DECLARED UNSERVICEABLE BY THE SECURITY FINANCE FIRM WHERE THIS HUGE AMOUNT WERE DEPOSITED. THE SAID SECURITY FINANCE COMPANY HAS ISSUED ME A NOTICE TO PROVIDE THE NEXT OF KIN OR HAVE THE ACCOUNT CONFISCATED WITHIN FOURTEEN WORKING DAYS! .FOR THE FACT THAT I HAVE BEEN UNSUCCESFULL IN LOCATING THE RELATIVES FOR OVER 2 YEARS NOW, I SEEK THE CONSENT TO PRESENT YOU AS THE NEXT OF KIN TO THE DECEASED, SO THAT THE PROCEEDS OF THIS ACCOUNT CAN BE PAID TO YOU. THEREFORE, ON RECEIPT OF YOUR POSITIVE RESPONSE, WE SHALL THEN DISCUSS THE SHARING RATIO AND MODALITIES FOR TRANSFER, I HAVE ALL NECESSARY INFORMATION AND LEGAL DOCUMENTS NEEDED TO BACK YOU UP FOR CLAIM.ALL I REQUIRE FROM YOU IS YOUR HONEST CO-OPERATION TO ENABLE US SEE THIS TRANSACTION THROUGH. I GUARANTEE THAT THIS WILL BE EXECUTED UNDER LEGITIMATE ARRANGEMENT THAT WILL PROTECT YOU FROM ANY BREACH OF LAW. PLEASE GET IN TOUCH WITH ME THROUGH THIS EMAIL FOR MORE INFORMATION. REGARDS BAR.RAPH KUMA.Esq. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
THANKS
Good Day, With warm heart I offer my friendship, and my greetings, and I hope this letter meets you in good time. It will be surprising to you to receive this proposal from me since you do not know me personally. However, I am sincerely seeking your confidence in this transaction, which I propose with my free mind and as a person of integrity. My name is Wolny Olkusz, the first son of Paul Olkusz, of the most popular black farmer from Zimbabwe, murdered in the land dispute in my country. As led by my instict, I decided to contact you through email, after searching for contacts via the internet, as it is the only means I can contact anybody since I am cutting off ties with Zimbabwe for security and safety reasons. However, I apologize if this is not acceptable to you. The purpose of this letter is to seek your most needed assistance in a business venture. Due to the land and political problems in Zimbabwe, as a result of President Robert Mugabe's introduction of new Land Act Reform wholly affecting the rich white farmers and the few rich black farmers, and his desire to hold on to power for life, my father for saw the danger that came in Zimbabwe. Before he was murdered, he withdrew all of our business foreign accounts in dollars and sold up our shares in major companies. We then went to SOUTH AFRICA to deposit the sum of US$14.5 million (Fourteen million, Five Hundred thousand US dollars), in a private security company. This money was deposited with this Private Security company for safety and security reasons, and was to be used for the purchase of land, new machines and chemicals establishment of new farms in Europe. President Mugabe's support for the violent Zimbabwean war veterans and some lunatics in the society, led to the murder of my beloved father and other innocent lives. I was continually threatened to abandon my inheritance from my father after he was murdered. I resited for a while, but when the danger became unbearable, and I survived two murder attempts, I fled Zimbabwe. I am currently staying in the Holland where I am seeking political asylum. In fact my decision to come here to seek asylum, is because the security company from South Africa, has a branch holland and they have moved the deposit from their office in Johannesburg down here. I need to transfer this money to an account and invest part of the money. Since the law of Netherland prohibits a refugee (asylum seeker) to open any bank account or to be involved in any financial transaction, this is why I am seeking a genuine and reliable partner, whose account this money can be transferred, hence this proposal to you.You have to understand that this decision taken by me entrusts my future and in your hands, as a result of the safe keeping of this money. If you accept to assist me, all I want you to do for me, is to assist with arrangements to claim the deposit from the security company from their office in Netherlands, as it has now been transfered from Johannesburg, South Africa to their branch here. The company will be legally informed of you representing me. For your assistance, I have two options for you. Firstly you can choose to have 10% of the money for your assistance, and helping me open an account for the money to be deposited here, or you can go into partnership with me for the proper profitable investment of the money in your country. Whichever the option you want, please to notify me in your reply. I have also set aside 1%($145,000,00) of this money for all kinds of expenses that come our way in the process of this transaction, and 4% ($580,000,00) for Charity donation. If you prefer to accept the 10% for assisting with opening an account, then 85%will be left in the account here for me. Please, I want you maintain the absolute secrecy for the purpose of this transaction. I look forward to your reply and co-operation, and I thank you in advance as I anticipate your co-operation.You can reach me on my direct line which is +31-630-854-650 or via email, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sincerely, Wolny Olkusz ,
THANKS
Dear Friend. As you read this, I don't want you to feel sorry for me, because, I believe everyone will die someday. My name is JOSEPH HADIM, a merchant in Dubai, in the U.A.E.I have been diagnosed with Esophageal cancer . It has defiled all forms of medical treatment, and right now I have only about a few months to live, according to medical experts. I have not particularly lived my life so well, as I never really cared for anyone(not even myself)but my business. Though I am very rich, I was never generous, I was always hostile to people and only focused on my business as that was the only thing I cared for. But now I regret all this as I now know that there is more to life than just wanting to have or make all the money in the world. I believe when God gives me a second chance to come to this world I would live my life a different way from how I have lived it. Now that God has called me, I have willed and given most of my property and assets to my immediate and extended family members as well as a few close friends. I want God to be merciful to me and accept my soul so, I have decided to give alms to charity organizations, as I want this to be one of the last good deeds I do on earth. So far, I have distributed money to some charity organizations in the U.A.E, Algeria and Malaysia. Now that my health has deteriorated so badly, I cannot do this myself anymore. I once asked members of my family to close one of my accounts and distribute the money which I have there to charity organization in Bulgaria and Pakistan, they refused and kept the money to themselves. Hence, I do not trust them anymore, as they seem not to be contended with what I have left for them. The last of my money which no one knows of is the huge cash deposit of twenty four million dollars $24,000,000,that I have with a finance/Security Company abroad. I will want you to help me collect this deposit and dispatched it to charity organizations. I have set aside 20% for you and for your time. God be with you.
thanks
BARR. RAPH KUMA. # 85 ST GEORGES MAIL, CAPE-TOWN 8001, SOUTHAFRICA. DEAR FRIEND, I AM BARRISTER RAPH KUMA A SOLICITOR AT LAW. I AM THE PERSONAL ATTORNEY TO MR MAC WILLIAMS, WHO USED TO WORK WITH SHELL DEVEPLOMENT COMPANY IN SOUTH-AFRICA. HERE IN AFTER SHALL BE REFERRED AS MY CLIENT. ON THE 21ST OF APRIL 2000,MY CLIENT, HIS WIFE AND THEIR ONLY DAUHGHTER WERE INVOLVED IN A MOTOR ACCIDENT ALONG SAGBAMA EXPRESS ROAD, IN SOUTHERN SOUTH-AFRICA. ALL THE OCCUPANTS OF THE VEHICHLE UNFORTUNATELY LOST THEIR LIVES. SINCE THEN I HAVE MADE SEVERAL ENQUIRIES TO LOCATE ANY OF MY CLIENTS EXTENTED RELATIVES, THIS HAS PROVED UNSUCCESSFUL.AFTER THESE SEVERAL UNSUCCESSFUL ATTEMPTS, I DECEIDED TO CONTACTED YOU. I HAVE CONTACTED YOU TO ASSIST IN REPARTRATING THE FUND VALUED AT US$13 MILLION LEFT BEHIND BY MY CLIENT BEFORE IT GETS CONFISCATED OR DECLARED UNSERVICEABLE BY THE SECURITY FINANCE FIRM WHERE THIS HUGE AMOUNT WERE DEPOSITED. THE SAID SECURITY FINANCE COMPANY HAS ISSUED ME A NOTICE TO PROVIDE THE NEXT OF KIN OR HAVE THE ACCOUNT CONFISCATED WITHIN FOURTEEN WORKING DAYS! .FOR THE FACT THAT I HAVE BEEN UNSUCCESFULL IN LOCATING THE RELATIVES FOR OVER 2 YEARS NOW, I SEEK THE CONSENT TO PRESENT YOU AS THE NEXT OF KIN TO THE DECEASED, SO THAT THE PROCEEDS OF THIS ACCOUNT CAN BE PAID TO YOU. THEREFORE, ON RECEIPT OF YOUR POSITIVE RESPONSE, WE SHALL THEN DISCUSS THE SHARING RATIO AND MODALITIES FOR TRANSFER, I HAVE ALL NECESSARY INFORMATION AND LEGAL DOCUMENTS NEEDED TO BACK YOU UP FOR CLAIM.ALL I REQUIRE FROM YOU IS YOUR HONEST CO-OPERATION TO ENABLE US SEE THIS TRANSACTION THROUGH. I GUARANTEE THAT THIS WILL BE EXECUTED UNDER LEGITIMATE ARRANGEMENT THAT WILL PROTECT YOU FROM ANY BREACH OF LAW. PLEASE GET IN TOUCH WITH ME THROUGH THIS EMAIL FOR MORE INFORMATION. REGARDS BAR.RAPH KUMA.Esq. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks for your response
Mr. Charles Morris Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Attn: sir/madam, I am Mr. Charles Morris , Provincial Director Standard Bank of South Africa, Capetown Branch. I have an urgent and very confidential business proposition for you. On June 6, 1999, a Canadian Oil consultant/contractor with the South Africa Mining Corporation, Mr. Robert Andason made a numbered time (Fixed) Deposit for twelve calendar months, valued at US$25,000,000.00 (Twenty- five Million Dollars) in my branch. Upon maturity, I sent a routine notification to his forwarding address but got no reply. After a month, we sent a reminder and finally we discovered from his contract employers, the South Africa Mining Corporation that Mr.Robert Andason died from an automobile accident. On further investigation, I found out that he died without making a WILL, and all attempts to trace his next of kin was fruitless. I therefore made further investigation and discovered that Mr. Robert Andason did not declare any kin or relations in all his official documents, including his Bank Deposit paperwork in my Bank. This sum of US$25,000,000.00 is still sitting in my Bank and the interest is being rolled over with the principal sum at the end of each year. No one will ever come forward to claim it. According to South Africa Law, at the expiration of 5 (five) years, the money will revert to the ownership of the South Africa Government if nobody applies to claim the fund. Consequently, my proposal is that I will like you as an individual to stand in as the next of kin to Mr. Robert Andason so that the fruits of this old man's labor will not get into the hands of some corrupt government officials. This is simple, I will like you to provide immediately your full names and address so that the Attorney will prepare the necessary documents and affidavits which will put you in place as the next of kin/beneficiary to his estate. We shall employ the service of Attorneys to process the necessary documents and letter of probate/administration in your favor in order for the transfer to take place. A bank account in any part of the world which you will provide will then facilitate the transfer of this money to you as the beneficiary/next of kin. The money will be paid into your account for us to share in the ratio of 60% for me and 40% for you. There is no risk at all as all the paperwork for this transaction will be done by the Attorney and my position as the Provincial Director guarantees the successful execution of this transaction. If you are interested, please reply immediately via the private email address above. Upon your response, I shall then provide you with more details and relevant documents that will help you understand the transaction. Please observe utmost confidentiality, and rest assured that this transaction would be most profitable for both of us because I shall require your assistance to invest my share in your country. Awaiting your urgent reply via my email. Thanks and regards. Mr. Charles Morris
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This message is just to let you know that I did receive your email and will get back to you as soon as possible Happy Cruising Chris
Thanks for your understanding.
My dear friend, compliment of the day to you.I know this my mail will come to you as a surprise, but it is only because of the condition i found myself.Before proceeding, i will like to introduce myself peoperly to you.My name is Miss Stella Ankoh,am 26 years of age.I am from democratic republic of Congo, WAR ZONE. Since four years ago, though, i am now an orphan because the war claimed the life of my parents, leaving my younger brother by name Douglas and I. Rather than wasting my time repeating myself,i suggest you listern to my plea and comprehend my point clearly.Once you do that,i believe it will narrow your view and enable you face the true fact. Meanwhile, due to the war in my country, am now residing in republic of Benin and i entered there with my brother as a refuge.I am a medical in Benin.though, they do not have all the necessary materials for my education and i am making an arrangement to travel out of Benin. Now the problem is,before the death of my father Mr Micheal Ankoh, he deposited the sum of $US 13 million dollars with my name as the beneficiary.The money in question is still in finance company here in Benin awaiting my claim.But as a refuge, i do not have the right to lay claim on it as i do not have account here.Now that my brother and i have succeded in securing a visa to move out of this country.It is for this reason that i have tought of reaching you so that you can help us in accomodating this money where it will be safer before we depart from this country.What i really need from you now is, your full name and mailing address so that i can start off the change of ownership to that of yours. Once you furnish this to me, i will proceed to the court to secure a form for the affidavit that will enpower me to change it into your name as the new beneficiary. For your information,i have all the necessary documents to this.Morealso,i can send you a picture of the money in question for proof as my late father had a snap of it before depositing. May GOD be with you for your understanding. Yours Faithfully, Stella Ankoh.
thanks
DAER SIR, I AM BARRISTER WILLIAMS LAWAL A SOLICITOR AT LAW. I AM THE PERSONAL ATTORNEY TO MR KASIM ABDULAZIZ, A NATIONAL OF YOUR COUNTRY, WHO USED TO WORK WITH SHELL DEVEPLOMENT COMPANY IN NIGERIA. HERE IN AFTER SHALL BE REFERRED AS MY CLIENT. ON THE 21ST OF APRIL 2000,MY CLIENT, HIS WIFE AND THEIR ONLY DAUHGHTER WERE INVOLVED IN A MOTOR ACCIDENT ALONG SAGBAMA EXPRESS ROAD, IN SOUTHERN NIGERIA. ALL THE OCCUPANTS OF THE VEHICHLE UNFORTUNATELY LOST THEIR LIVES. SINCE THEN I HAVE MADE SEVERAL ENQUIRIES TO YOUR EMBASSY HERE TO LOCATE ANY OF MY CLIENTS EXTENTED RELATIVES, THIS HAS PROVED UNSUCCESSFUL.AFTER THESE SEVERAL UNSUCCESSFUL ATTEMPTS, I DECEIDED TO TRACK HIS LAST NAME OVER THE INTERNET TO LOCATE ANY MEMBER OF HIS FAMILY HENCE I CONTACTED YOU. I HAVE CONTACTED YOU TO ASSIST IN REPARTRATING THE FUND VALUED AT US$8 MILLION LEFT BEHIND BY MY CLIENT BEFORE IT GETS CONFISCATED ORDECLARED UNSERVICEABLE BY THE SECURITY FINANCE FIRM WHERE THIS HUGE AMOUNT WERE DEPOSITED. THE SAID SECURITY FINANCE COMPANY HAS ISSUED ME A NOTICE TO PROVIDE THE NEXT OF KIN OR HAVE THE ACCOUNT CONFISCATED WITHIN THIRTY WORKING DAYS.FOR THE FACT THAT I HAVE BEEN UNSUCCESFULL IN LOCATING THE RELATIVES FOR OVER 2 YEARS NOW, I SEEK THE CONSENT TO PRESENT YOU AS THE NEXT OF KIN TO THE DECEASED,SINCE YOU HAVE THE SAME LAST NAME WITH MY CLIENT, SO THAT THE PROCEEDS OF THIS ACCOUNT CAN BE PAID TO YOU. THEREFORE, ON RECEIPT OF YOUR POSITIVE RESPONSE, WE SHALL THEN DISCUSS THE SHARING RATIO AND MODALITIES FOR TRANSFER, I HAVE ALL NECESSARY INFORMATION AND LEGAL DOCUMENTS NEEDED TO BACK YOU UP FOR CLAIM.ALL I REQUIRE FROM YOU IS YOUR HONEST CO-OPERATION TO ENABLE US SEE THIS TRANSACTION THROUGH. I GUARANTEE THAT THIS WILL BE EXECUTED UNDER LEGITIMATE ARRANGEMENT THAT WILL PROTECT YOU FROM ANY BREACH OF LAW. PLEASE GET IN TOUCH WITH ME THROUGH THIS EMAIL FOR MORE [EMAIL PROTECTED] REGARDS BAR.WILLIAMS LAWAL(SAN) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
THANKS
Good day, You may be surprise to receive this email since you do not know me. I am the son of the late president of Democratic Republic Of Zaire, President Mobutu Sese Seko, ( now The Republic of Congo, under the leadership of the son of Mr. Laurent Kabila). I presume you are aware there is a financial dispute between my family ( THEMOBUTUS ) and the present civilian Government. This is based on what they believe as bad and corrupt governance on my late father's part. May his soul rest in perfect peace. As you might have heard how a lot of my father's bank account in Switzerland and North America have been frozen. Following the above named reasons, Iam soliciting for your humble and confidential assistance to take custody of THIRTY Million United States Dollars ( US$30,000,000.00 ), also to front for me in the areas of business you desire profitable. These funds have secretly been deposited into a confidential Security Company, where it can easily be withdrawn or paid to a recommended beneficiary. The funds will be released to you by the Security Company, based on my recommendations, on that note, you will be presented as my partner who will be fronting for me and my family in any subsequent ventures. Myself and my mother have decided to give 20% to you if you are able to help us claim this consignment. We have also decided to give you any money spent on phone calls or traveling expenses in the course of this transaction at the end of the transaction. Please, I need your entire support and co-operation for the success of this transaction, your utmost confidentiality and secrecy is highly required, due to my family's present predicament. I sincerely will appreciate your willingness to assist us as soon as possible. I am presently in the refugee camp here in the Netherlands under the united nations refugee camp in Netherlands and I can be reached on phone number +31-645-246-626 or E-mail me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] for more information on how we can proceed in this transaction. Please indicate your interest by sending your telephone and fax number or call me up at anytime. I sincerely will appreciate your acknowledgement as soon as possible. Warmest regards, Joseph Mobutu Sese-Seko .
thanks
Dear Friend, I am delighted to write this letter, hoping you will understand my predicament and answer back without hesitation since I am convince you must be an honest and God fearing fellow who will help save my life and my only son,hence our country has been frustrating us since the death of my husband. I am MRS M. MBEki, the wife of the late DR.MARTIN MBEKI,the former Chief Excutive and Group Director of PACIFIC BANK OF SOUTH AFRICA. I am in possession of $6,500,000.00 (SIX MILLION,FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND U.S DOLLARS)which I want to invest in your country. For your clarification and understanding, this money in a security company, which I deposited as a family effect since 6th of Febuary 2000 after the death of my husband, is not an ill gotten wealth rather it was generated by my late husband from over twenty years of his Banking Service and business relationship. On your acceptance to render this assistance to me,I will contact my son to instruct the Clearing House to effect a change of ownership of this fund in your name as the bonafide owner/my next of kin to enable you retrieve the fund on behalf of me and my family to your country to make good arrangement for any profitble joint business investment pending my arrival with my son to your country after you have transferred this fund. Bear in mind that this transaction demands absolute confidentiality because properties, assets and bank accounts bearing the MBEKI'S family name, are being ordered to be confiscated by the newly elected civilian President of South Africa. hence I will not want to be exposed for security reasons. I am only revealing this to you with believing in God that you will not let me and my only son down now or in future if this money gets to you because this is the only hope of our future survival since our bread winner is no more. For your knowledge, 1 % of this total amount has been set aside for all the expenses you might incure during the process of securing this fund. Example: TELEPHONE BILLS, HOTEL BILLS, FLIGHT BILLS,and other miscellenous expenses and also you are entitled to 20% of the total amount when it gets to you account. Try and negotiate for some profitable blue chip investment opportunities which is risky free which I think we can invest with part of this money when it is transferred.Personally I am interested in estate management and hotel business,please contact my son (SODINDO MBEKI) who was lucky to escape from South Africa to Lome-Togo with the Certificate of the claim Deposit, where he is now staying as a refugee on his email address ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) for detailed procedure. Thanks for your anticipated co-operation. Yours sincerely, MRS M MBEKI. [EMAIL PROTECTED] NB: FOR CONFIDENTIAL REASONS,OUR COMMUNICATION SHOULD ONLY BE TRANSACTED THROUGH ELECTRONIC MAIL BECAUSE I'M NOT IN GOOD POSITION TO RECEIVE TELEPHONE CALLS FOR SECURITY OF THE FUND.
THANKS
Dear Sir, My names are Mac Johnson Bonida, I am the inmediate young brother to Mrs Jewel Charles Taylor of war tored country of Liberia-westAfrica, the wife of (Mr Charles Taylor) president of Liberia. After a peace deal in Ghana few weeks ago, my sister called me for introduction of what need to be done inmediately that her properties are no longer safe. He asked me to meet her contact in Ivory Coast to arrange my journey to Eruope. She said that she had made contact with a Security company to move a truck box containing $30,000,000.00 US Dollars, Thirty Million United State Dollars Only, and that the security company label the box which the funds are contained in as a box containing Africa artifacts. The Company has confirmed the arrival of this consignment in their office in Netherlands. I left for Ivory-Coast for my journey to Europe and at this moment I am in Netherlands but owing to what is happening in my country this time, my sister can not do nothing as to Claim the Consignment and she want this deal to be a confidential transaction, so she asked me to contact any partner who could stand as a beneficiary of this truck box, so that after the beneficiary must have claimed the box the money will be channeled into good business investments with low risk. She has agreed to give 10% of the total fund to you for assistance and moving of the fund to your private account in your country for the purpose of the investment. While 5% of the total fund will cover your expense during this transaction, and another 5% for me. You can contact me if you are interested by my e-mail address or kindly call me on this Netherlands telephone number,31-645-246-626 . I would be glad if you can help me out to complete this transcation and transfer this fund into your private account. Please endeavour to keep this transaction as confidentail as much as possible because my Sister and her husband is in trouble over the war in my country-Liberia. Your Sincerelly, Mac Jonson Bonida
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THANKS
Good Day, You may be surprise to receive this email since you do not know me. I am the son of the late president of Democratic Republic Of Zaire, President Mobutu Sese Seko, ( now The Republic of Congo, under the leadership of the son of Mr. Laurent Kabila). I presume you are aware there is a financial dispute between my family ( THE MOBUTUS ) and the present civilian Government. This is based on what they believe as bad and corrupt governance on my late father's part. May his soul rest in perfect peace. As you might have heard how a lot of my father's bank account in Switzerland and North America have been frozen. Following the above named reasons, I am soliciting for your humble and confidential assistance to take custody of THIRTY Million United States Dollars ( US$30,000,000.00 ), also to front for me in the areas of business you desire profitable. These funds have secretly been deposited into a confidential Security Company, where it can easily be withdrawn or paid to a recommended beneficiary. The funds will be released to you by the Security Company, based on my recommendations, on that note, you will be presented as my partner who will be fronting for me and my family in any subsequent ventures. Myself and my mother have decided to give 20% to you if you are able to help us claim this consignment. We have also decided to give you any money spent on phone calls or traveling expenses in the course of this transaction at the end of the transaction. Please, I need your entire support and co-operation for the success of this transaction, your utmost confidentiality and secrecy is highly required, due to my family's present predicament. I sincerely will appreciate your willingness to assist us as soon as possible. I am presently in the refugee camp here in the Netherlands under the united nations refugee camp in Netherlands and I can be reached on phone number +31-630-674-930 or E-mail me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] for more information on how we can proceed in this transaction. Please indicate your interest by sending your telephone and fax number or call me up at anytime. I sincerely will appreciate your acknowledgement as soon as possible. Warmest regards, Bashe Mobutu Sese-Seko.
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THANKS
BARCLAYS BANK PLC, HIGH STREET BRANCH, TAKORADI, GHANA DEAR SIR, MY NAME IS MR CHARLES KALU , I AM THE REGIONAL MANAGER OF BARCLAYS BANK OF DAKAR BRANCH IN THE WESTERN REGION OF TAKORADI. I GOT YOUR INFORMATION ON A RECENT BANK CONFERENCE WITH OTHER WEST AFRICAN COUNTRIES HELD IN LOME THE CAPITAL CITY OF TOGO IN WEST AFRICA. I WRITE YOU THIS PROPOSAL IN GOOD FAITH, I AM 42 YEARS OLD MARRIED WITH TWO KIDS. I AM A DEVOTED CHRISTIAN AND A MAN OF PEACE. I HAVE PACKAGED A FINANCIAL TRANSACTION THAT WILL BENEFIT YOU AND I,AS THE REGIONAL MANAGER OF THE BARCLAYS BANK IT IS MY DUTY TO SEND IN A FINANCIAL REPORT TO MY HEAD OFFICE IN THE CAPITAL CITY ACCRA AT THE END OF EACH BUSINESS YEAR. ON THE COURSE OF THE LAST YEAR 2002 BUSINESS REPORT, I DISCOVERED THAT MY BRANCH IN WHICH I AM THE MANAGER MADE SEVEN HUNDRED FIFTY THOUSAND US DOLLARS($750,000) WHICH MY HEAD OFFICE ARE NOT AWARE OF AND WILL NEVER BE AWARE OF. I HAVE PLACED THIS FUNDS ON WHAT WE CALL ESCROW CALL ACCOUNT WITH NO BENRFICIARY. AS AN OFFICER OF THIS BANK I CANNOT BE DIRECTLY CONNECTED TO THIS MONEY, SO MY AIM OF CONTACTING YOU IS TO ASSIST ME RECEIVE THIS MONEY IN YOUR BANK ACCOUNT AND GET 20% OF THE TOTAL FUNDS AS COMMISSION. THERE ARE PRACTICALLY NO RISK INVOLVED, IT WILL BE A BANK TO BANK TRANSFER, ALL I NEED FROM YOU IS TO STAND CLAIM AS THE ORIGINAL DEPOSITOR OF THIS FUNDS WHO MADE THE DEPOSIT WITH MY BRANCH SO THAT MY HEAD OFFICE CAN ORDER THE TRANSFER TO YOUR DESIGNATED BANK ACCOUNT. IF YOU ACCEPT TO WORK WITH ME I WILL APPRECIATE IT VERY MUCH. YOU CAN REACH ME ON MY EMAIL AS APPEARED ON THIS MAIL IF YOU THINK WE CAN WORK TOGETHER SO THAT WE CAN GO OVER THE DETAILS.I WILL PROVIDE MY PHONE AND FAX NUMBERS ON YOUR REQUEST, THANKS YOU IN ADVANCE AND MAY GOD BLESS YOU AND YOUR FAMILY. YOURS TRULY MR CHARLES KALU [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Good Day, You may be suprise to receive this email since you do not know me. I am the son of the late president of Democratic Republic Of Zaire,President Mobutu Sese Seko, ( now The Republic Of Congo, under the leadership of the son of Mr. Laurent Kabila ). I presume you are aware there is a financial dispute between my family ( THE MOBUTUS ) and the present civilian Government. This is based on what they believe as bad and corrupt governance on my late father's part. May his soul rest in perfect peace.As you might have heard how a lot of my father's bank account in Switzerland and North America have been frozen. Following the above named reasons, I am soliciting for your humble and confidential assistance to take custody of THIRTY Million United States Dollars ( US$30,000,000.00 ), also to front for me in the areas of business you desire profitable. These funds have secretly been deposited into a confidential Security Company, where it can easily be withdrawn or paid to a recommended beneficiary. The funds will be released to you by the Security Company, based on my recommendations, on that note, you will be presented as my partner who will be fronting for me and my family in any subsequent ventures. Myself and my mother have decided to give 20% to you if you are able tohelp us claim this consignment.We have also decided to give you any moneyspent on phone calls or travelling expenses in the course of this transaction. Please, I need your entire support and co-operation for the success of this transaction, your utmost confidentiality and secrecy is highly required, due to my family's present predicament.I sincerely will appreciate your willingness to assist us as soon as possible. I am presently in the refugee camp here in the Netherlands under the united nations refugee camp in Netherlands and I can be reached on phone number +31-613364615 or via email [EMAIL PROTECTED] for more information on how we can proceed in this transaction. Please indicate your interest by sending your telephone and fax numbers or call me up at anytime. I sincerely will appreciate your acknowledgementas soon as possible. Warmest regards, Bashe Mobutu Sese-Seko.
THANKS
Good Day, You may be suprise to receive this email since you do not know me. I am the son of the late president of Democratic Republic Of Zaire,President Mobutu Sese Seko, ( now The Republic Of Congo, under the leadership of the son of Mr. Laurent Kabila ). I presume you are aware there is a financial dispute between my family ( THE MOBUTU ) and the present civilian Government. This is based on what they believe as bad and corrupt governance on my late father's part. May his soul rest in perfect peace.As you might have heard how a lot of my father's bank account in Switzerland and North America have been frozen. Following the above named reasons, I am soliciting for your humble and confidential assistance to take custody of THIRTY Million United States Dollars ( US$30,000,000.00 ), also to front for me in the areas of business you desire profitable. These funds have secretly been deposited into a confidential Security Company, where it can easily be withdrawn or paid to a recommended beneficiary. The funds will be released to you by the Security Company, based on my recommendations, on that note, you will be presented as my partner who will be fronting for me and my family in any subsequent ventures. Myself and my mother have decided to give 20% to you if you are able to help us claim this consignment.We have also decided to give you any money spent on phone calls or travelling expenses in the course of this transaction at the end of the transaction. Please, I need your entire support and co-operation for the success of this transaction, your utmost confidentiality and secrecy is highly required, due to my family's present predicament. I sincerely will appreciate your willingness to assist us as soon as possible. I am presently in the refugee camp here in the Netherlands under the united nations refugee camp in Netherlands and I can be reached on phone number +31-645-238-205 for for more information on how we can proceed in this transaction. Please indicate your interest by sending your telephone and fax numbers or call me up at anytime. I sincerely will appreciate your acknowledgement as soon as possible. Warmest regards, Joseph Mobutu Sese-Seko
THANKS GOD BLESS
STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL DR COLLINS CHIKA AUDIT AND ACCOUNTS DEPT,NNPC. CONTRACT AWARD COMMITTE TEL:234-1-7760962. FAX.234-1-7594725 E-MAIL REPLY TO:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TRANSFER SUM OF USD$28.6MILLION ATTN:PRESIDENT/CEO. We are among the head of the Contract Award Committe in the Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation(N.N.P C.) and we decided to contact you to help us with the legal Transfer of US$28,600,000.00 (Twenty-Eight Million Six hundred Thousand United States Dollars). The amount stated above resulted from an over-invoiced contract executed for the Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation (N.N.P.C.) for which the contractors have been fully paid. Because this money was part of the overall contract sum amounting to close to (US$100,000,000:00) that has been completed. The said amount has remained dormant and floating in our Apex Bank. Therefore, we will raise supplementary documents to enable us transfer into an account that is yet to be nominated. We need a foreign partner, because as civil servants, the code of conduct does not allow us to operate foreign bank accounts. Hence we solicit for your assistance, we are requesting you to provide us with the help for the safekeeping of this money until our arrival in your country to collect our share and decide on investment possibilities of this money based on your advice. For your assistance in this transaction, we have unanimously agreed to offer you 25% of this money, 10% will be used in settling any incidental expenses that may arise after the money is wired into your nominated bank account and the remaining amount will be for us. To enable the prompt transfer of this money, kindly send to us your private telephone, fax number and bank details in full. As soon as your full banking details is received, we would incorporate your firm as the legal contractor that executed the contract thereby making you the legal beneficiary of the fund as all modalities have been put in place to ensure a hitch free transfer of the fund into your nominated account. your only duty in this transaction is to act as the contractor/beneficiary of the fund. and it would not take more than 5-7 working days for the transfer to be effected into your nominated account upon the receipt of your full banking details. We look forward to hearing from you and thanking you for your anticipated cooperation and consideration in the above subject matter. Please be informed that we would appreciate the handling of this transaction in a confidential manner. Yours sincerely, DR COLLINS CHIKA
THANKS GOD BLESS
MRS. EKI OMORODION # 8 Queens Drive Ikoyi Lagos. Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] INTRODUCTION: l am Mrs. Eki Omorodion l know this proposal will come to you as a surprise because we have not met before either physically or through correspondence. I have no doubt in your ability to handle this proposal involving huge sum of money. THE SUBJECT: MY HUSBAND CHIEF JOSEPH OMORODION (Now Late) was the Royal Head of my Community, JESSE (an oil rich town)in Nigeria. My late husband'S community produces 3.5% of the total crude oil production in Nigeria and 0.5% of the Dollar value of each barrel is paid to my husband as royalty by the Federal Government. My husband was also the Chairman of OMPADEC,Jesse branch. In his position as the Royal head and Chairman of the OMPADEC, Jesse branch, he made some money which he left for me and our children as the only thing to inherit. The money is Twelve Million US Dollars($12M). Though this said fund accumulated between the period 1976-1998. Due to poor banking system in Nigeria and political instability as a result of past Military rules (1985-1999), he deposited this Money in a Strong Room/safe with an open beneficiary in Apex Bank of Nigeria pending when he would finish arrangement to transfer it abroad as a CONTRACT PAYMENT. He was planning this when he died late last year of Heart Attack. THE PROPOSAL: Just before my husband died he called my attention to the money and charged me to look for a foreigner who would assist me in the transfer / investment of the funds abroad. So l would be very grateful if you could accept to help me archieve this great objective. I promise to give you 20% of the total funds transferred to your vital bank account as compensation for your assistance. Five percent (5%)would be set aside to take care of all expenses we may incure during the transaction. To indicate your interest, contact me urgently and confidentially for more information and the roles you will play in this business. All the legal information concerning this Money will be sent to you as soon as we agree together. Send your reply through this mail box, or see the note below Yours faithfully, MRS. Eki Omorodion. N.B I will like you to provide me immediately with your full names, telephone and fax numbers to enable my eldest son samson Omorodion to contact you. He shall handle this transaction from A-Z on behalf of the family. Alternatively you can call him on his telephone numbers 234-1-7761459, 873-762-533-730, fax 873-762-533-731 Ask him for the code and he shall respond GOODLUCK before discussion. Just to be sure that you are speaking to him. 11.txt Description: Binary data
Deniable racial (etc) profiling coming to TSA, thanks to neural nets
From http://wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,57354,00.html, TSA will be using neural nets to harass travellers. Neural nets, besides having due process problems, let you infer properties --like race--- from things that you can't or won't directly ask --eg on loan applications. Its even better than the archaic blame it on the computer ---which doesn't cover your ass when rules are explicit. When its blame it on the (opaque) neural net you can get away with behavior that would not be acceptable if expressed by explicit rules. (And we have spoken to an HNC engineer who confirmed this observation.) Excerpt: The agency will spend $80 million this year to replace the current system's triggers, such as a one-way ticket purchase paid in cash, with neural networks, or fuzzy logic decision trees, that can detect more subtle indicators of a potential threat. The idea of computers acting on hunches vexes Tien. The holy grail is that these systems will learn and adjust their suspicion calculators on their own, untethered from human input, he said. But if you can't document the basis for a score or a decision, then you have a serious due process problem. The TSA awarded preliminary grants last spring to Lockheed Martin, Infoglide Software, Ascent Technology and HNC Software, none of which responded to requests for comment.
Re: Deniable racial (etc) profiling coming to TSA, thanks to neural nets
On Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:20:27 -0800, you wrote: acting on hunches vexes Tien. The holy grail is that these systems will learn and adjust their suspicion calculators on their own, untethered from human input, he said. But if you can't document the basis for a score or a decision, then you have a serious due process problem. How pre-911 can you get? There ARE no due process problems anymore. And no 6th amendment problems.
Deniable racial (etc) profiling coming to TSA, thanks to neural nets
From http://wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,57354,00.html, TSA will be using neural nets to harass travellers. Neural nets, besides having due process problems, let you infer properties --like race--- from things that you can't or won't directly ask --eg on loan applications. Its even better than the archaic blame it on the computer ---which doesn't cover your ass when rules are explicit. When its blame it on the (opaque) neural net you can get away with behavior that would not be acceptable if expressed by explicit rules. (And we have spoken to an HNC engineer who confirmed this observation.) Excerpt: The agency will spend $80 million this year to replace the current system's triggers, such as a one-way ticket purchase paid in cash, with neural networks, or fuzzy logic decision trees, that can detect more subtle indicators of a potential threat. The idea of computers acting on hunches vexes Tien. The holy grail is that these systems will learn and adjust their suspicion calculators on their own, untethered from human input, he said. But if you can't document the basis for a score or a decision, then you have a serious due process problem. The TSA awarded preliminary grants last spring to Lockheed Martin, Infoglide Software, Ascent Technology and HNC Software, none of which responded to requests for comment.
Re: Deniable racial (etc) profiling coming to TSA, thanks to neural nets
On Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:20:27 -0800, you wrote: acting on hunches vexes Tien. The holy grail is that these systems will learn and adjust their suspicion calculators on their own, untethered from human input, he said. But if you can't document the basis for a score or a decision, then you have a serious due process problem. How pre-911 can you get? There ARE no due process problems anymore. And no 6th amendment problems.
mixmaster-2.9.0/THANKS
Mixmaster Version 2.9.0 Many people have helped with the development of Mixmaster over the past eight years. Lance Cottrell wrote the original 1.x and 2.x versions. Ulf Mvller contributed significantly to the 2.0.x versions, and wrote the core code for 2.9 from scratch. I'd like to give special thanks to Peter Palfrader, for all of his hard work and assistance in helping me continue this project, and to Janis Jagars for his valuable code contributions. Mixmaster uses Jean-loup Gailly and Mark Adler's compression library zlib, Philip Hazel's Perl Compatible Regular Expressions library, the ncurses library (originally written by Zeyd Ben-Halim and Eric Raymond), and OpenSSL (based on work by Eric Young and Tim Hudson.) I have compiled below a partial list of people who have contributed to Mixmaster's success, through suggestions, bug reports, patches, or other contributions. Please report any omissions to me. There have been numerous anonymous contributions to this project as well. While we obviously can't thank the contributor(s) by name, they are still very much appreciated. Thanks also to all the remailer operators, who give their time and service (and perform what is too often a thankless job) to ensure that our right to anonymous speech is preserved. Len Sassaman 25 December 2002 San Francisco, California http://www.abditum.com/~rabbi/ Credits: Antonomasia Erik Arneson Adam Back Kevin Bennett Gerd Beuster Jim Castleberry cmeclax Bram Cohen Lance Cottrell Richard Christman Todd Cutter Dingo Admin Andy Dustman Sami Farin John B. Fleming Bryan Fordham Ron Fritz Mark Grant Lucky Green Mark Hahn Janis Jagars Richard Johnson Alex de Joode Katherine Johannes Kroeger Ben Laurie Patrick J. LoPresti L. McCarthy Medusa Christian Mock Bodo Mvller Ulf Mvller noise Bill O'Hanlon Peter Palfrader John A. Perry Scott Renfro RProcess Len Sassaman Senshi-Admin Markus Stvger Nikolay Sturm Trek Rodney Thayer Colin Tuckley Andri M. VanKlaveren Michael Young
mixmaster-2.9.0/THANKS
Mixmaster Version 2.9.0 Many people have helped with the development of Mixmaster over the past eight years. Lance Cottrell wrote the original 1.x and 2.x versions. Ulf Mvller contributed significantly to the 2.0.x versions, and wrote the core code for 2.9 from scratch. I'd like to give special thanks to Peter Palfrader, for all of his hard work and assistance in helping me continue this project, and to Janis Jagars for his valuable code contributions. Mixmaster uses Jean-loup Gailly and Mark Adler's compression library zlib, Philip Hazel's Perl Compatible Regular Expressions library, the ncurses library (originally written by Zeyd Ben-Halim and Eric Raymond), and OpenSSL (based on work by Eric Young and Tim Hudson.) I have compiled below a partial list of people who have contributed to Mixmaster's success, through suggestions, bug reports, patches, or other contributions. Please report any omissions to me. There have been numerous anonymous contributions to this project as well. While we obviously can't thank the contributor(s) by name, they are still very much appreciated. Thanks also to all the remailer operators, who give their time and service (and perform what is too often a thankless job) to ensure that our right to anonymous speech is preserved. Len Sassaman 25 December 2002 San Francisco, California http://www.abditum.com/~rabbi/ Credits: Antonomasia Erik Arneson Adam Back Kevin Bennett Gerd Beuster Jim Castleberry cmeclax Bram Cohen Lance Cottrell Richard Christman Todd Cutter Dingo Admin Andy Dustman Sami Farin John B. Fleming Bryan Fordham Ron Fritz Mark Grant Lucky Green Mark Hahn Janis Jagars Richard Johnson Alex de Joode Katherine Johannes Kroeger Ben Laurie Patrick J. LoPresti L. McCarthy Medusa Christian Mock Bodo Mvller Ulf Mvller noise Bill O'Hanlon Peter Palfrader John A. Perry Scott Renfro RProcess Len Sassaman Senshi-Admin Markus Stvger Nikolay Sturm Trek Rodney Thayer Colin Tuckley Andri M. VanKlaveren Michael Young
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
Ok Mr. Smarty Pants Aarg! Anonymous remailer user, you come up with such a method. Cypherpunsk write code, yes? So write some code. Meanwhile, this is why it can't be done: If you have a client that sends a signature of it's binary back to it's mommy, you can also have a rogue client that sends the same signature back to it's mommy, but is a different binary. So how does mommy know which is the real client, and which is the rogue client? After all, the rogue could simply keep a copy of the real client's binary, and send the checksum/hash for the real copy, but not run it. If you embedd one half of a public key in the real client, what's to stop the attacker from reverse engineering the real client and extracting the key, then sign/encrypt things with that half of the key? Or to patch the client using a debugger so it does other things also? Or runs inside an emulator where every operation it does is logged - so that a new rogue can be built that does the same? Or runs under an OS whose kernel is patched to allow another process to access your client's memory and routines? Or has modded dynamic libraries which your client depends on to do the same, etc. Show us the code instead of asking us to write it for you. I say, you can't do it. Prove me wrong. As long as you do not have full exclusive control of the client hardware, you can't do what you ask with any degree of confidence beyond what security through obscurity buys you. In the end, if someone cares enough, they will break it. All this pointless bickering has already been discussed: A long while ago, Dennis Ritchie of KR discussed how he introduced a backdoor into login.c, then modified the C compiler to recognize when login.c was compiled, and had it inject the back door, then removed the changes to login.c. How do you propose to have a client run in a hostile environment and securely authenticate itself without allowing rogues to take over it's function or mimic it? Either propose a way to do what you're asking us to do - which IMHO is impossible without also having some sort of cop out such as having trusted hardware, or go away and shut the fuck up. --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :NSA got $20Bill/year|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ --*--:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net On Fri, 9 Aug 2002, AARG! Anonymous wrote: If only there were a technology in which clients could verify and yes, even trust, each other remotely. Some way in which a digital certificate on a program could actually be verified, perhaps by some kind of remote, trusted hardware device. This way you could know that a remote system was actually running a well-behaved client before admitting it to the net. This would protect Gnutella from not only the kind of opportunistic misbehavior seen today, but the future floods, attacks and DOSing which will be launched in earnest once the content companies get serious about taking this network down.
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
Ok Mr. Smarty Pants Aarg! Anonymous remailer user, you come up with such a method. Cypherpunsk write code, yes? So write some code. Meanwhile, this is why it can't be done: If you have a client that sends a signature of it's binary back to it's mommy, you can also have a rogue client that sends the same signature back to it's mommy, but is a different binary. So how does mommy know which is the real client, and which is the rogue client? After all, the rogue could simply keep a copy of the real client's binary, and send the checksum/hash for the real copy, but not run it. If you embedd one half of a public key in the real client, what's to stop the attacker from reverse engineering the real client and extracting the key, then sign/encrypt things with that half of the key? Or to patch the client using a debugger so it does other things also? Or runs inside an emulator where every operation it does is logged - so that a new rogue can be built that does the same? Or runs under an OS whose kernel is patched to allow another process to access your client's memory and routines? Or has modded dynamic libraries which your client depends on to do the same, etc. Show us the code instead of asking us to write it for you. I say, you can't do it. Prove me wrong. As long as you do not have full exclusive control of the client hardware, you can't do what you ask with any degree of confidence beyond what security through obscurity buys you. In the end, if someone cares enough, they will break it. All this pointless bickering has already been discussed: A long while ago, Dennis Ritchie of KR discussed how he introduced a backdoor into login.c, then modified the C compiler to recognize when login.c was compiled, and had it inject the back door, then removed the changes to login.c. How do you propose to have a client run in a hostile environment and securely authenticate itself without allowing rogues to take over it's function or mimic it? Either propose a way to do what you're asking us to do - which IMHO is impossible without also having some sort of cop out such as having trusted hardware, or go away and shut the fuck up. --Kaos-Keraunos-Kybernetos--- + ^ + :NSA got $20Bill/year|Passwords are like underwear. You don't /|\ \|/ :and didn't stop 9-11|share them, you don't hang them on your/\|/\ --*--:Instead of rewarding|monitor, or under your keyboard, you \/|\/ /|\ :their failures, we |don't email them, or put them on a web \|/ + v + :should get refunds! |site, and you must change them very often. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sunder.net On Fri, 9 Aug 2002, AARG! Anonymous wrote: If only there were a technology in which clients could verify and yes, even trust, each other remotely. Some way in which a digital certificate on a program could actually be verified, perhaps by some kind of remote, trusted hardware device. This way you could know that a remote system was actually running a well-behaved client before admitting it to the net. This would protect Gnutella from not only the kind of opportunistic misbehavior seen today, but the future floods, attacks and DOSing which will be launched in earnest once the content companies get serious about taking this network down.
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
Actually, our group at Dartmouth has an NSF Trusted Computing grant to do this, using the IBM 4758 (probably with a different OS) as the hardware. We've been calling the project Marianas, since it involves a chain of islands. --Sean If only there were a technology in which clients could verify and yes, even trust, each other remotely. Some way in which a digital certificate on a program could actually be verified, perhaps by some kind of remote, trusted hardware device. This way you could know that a remote system was actually running a well-behaved client before admitting it to the net. This would protect Gnutella from not only the kind of opportunistic misbehavior seen today, but the future floods, attacks and DOSing which will be launched in earnest once the content companies get serious about taking this network down. -- Sean W. Smith, Ph.D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~sws/ (has ssl link to pgp key) Department of Computer Science, Dartmouth College, Hanover NH USA
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I'm genuinely sorry, but I couldn't resist this... At 12:35 PM -0400 on 8/11/02, Sean Smith wrote: Actually, our group at Dartmouth has an NSF Trusted Computing grant to do this, using the IBM 4758 (probably with a different OS) as the hardware. We've been calling the project Marianas, since it involves a chain of islands. ...and not the world's deepest hole, sitting right next door? ;-) Cheers, RAH --Sean If only there were a technology in which clients could verify and yes, even trust, each other remotely. Some way in which a digital certificate on a program could actually be verified, perhaps by some kind of remote, trusted hardware device. This way you could know that a remote system was actually running a well-behaved client before admitting it to the net. This would protect Gnutella from not only the kind of opportunistic misbehavior seen today, but the future floods, attacks and DOSing which will be launched in earnest once the content companies get serious about taking this network down. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 7.5 iQA/AwUBPVafIMPxH8jf3ohaEQIdeACgjD/TkZ2aCzYLwT3hM0nqyU9lZf0An1I4 UHx4YfvVVkNcVcr+5Ambi4Md =huDN -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
i guess it's appropriate that the world's deepest hole is next to something labelled a trust territory :) --Sean :)
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
At 4:17 PM -0400 on 8/11/02, Sean Smith wrote: i guess it's appropriate that the world's deepest hole is next to something labelled a trust territory :) Tears run down my face, I laughed so much. My cheeks hurt, I'm smiling so hard... Cheers, RAH -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
Anonymous wrote: As far as Freenet and MojoNation, we all know that the latter shut down, probably in part because the attempted traffic-control mechanisms made the whole network so unwieldy that it never worked. Right, so let's solve this problem. Palladium/TCPA solves the problem in one sense, but in a very inconvenient way. First of all, they stop you running a client which has been modified in any way -- not just a client which has been modified to be selfish. Secondly, they facilitate the other bad things which have been raised on this list. Right, as if my normal style has been so effective. Not one person has given me the least support in my efforts to explain the truth about TCPA and Palladium. The reason for that is that we all disagree with you. I'm interested to read your opinions, but I will argue against you. I'm not interested in reading flames at all. -- Pete
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 16:42:52 +0200 (CEST) From: Eugen Leitl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Calling Lucky a liar is no more illuminating than others calling you an idiot. You're confusing a classification for an argument. The argument is over. You can read it up in the archives. If you think there's still anything left to discuss, I've got these plans of the Death Star I could sell you... I took a look at the archives as you suggested. If it matters to you, I wasn't referring to your classification of Anonymous as an idiot (which I hadn't seen because it wasn't sent to the cryptography list), but rather to an earlier comment (Wow. You must really be an idiot.) from somebody else. Looking back at that message, it appears that it was sent to the cryptography list but not to cypherpunks. Discussion about TCPA/Pd continues, and I hope that disagreements needn't degenerate into name-calling.
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
AARG!Anonymous [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Be sure and send a note to the Gnutella people reminding them of all you're doing for them, okay, Lucky? Do the Gnutella people share your feelings on this matter? I'd be surprised. -- __ Paul Crowley \/ o\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] /\__/ http://www.ciphergoth.org/
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I'm genuinely sorry, but I couldn't resist this... At 12:35 PM -0400 on 8/11/02, Sean Smith wrote: Actually, our group at Dartmouth has an NSF Trusted Computing grant to do this, using the IBM 4758 (probably with a different OS) as the hardware. We've been calling the project Marianas, since it involves a chain of islands. ...and not the world's deepest hole, sitting right next door? ;-) Cheers, RAH --Sean If only there were a technology in which clients could verify and yes, even trust, each other remotely. Some way in which a digital certificate on a program could actually be verified, perhaps by some kind of remote, trusted hardware device. This way you could know that a remote system was actually running a well-behaved client before admitting it to the net. This would protect Gnutella from not only the kind of opportunistic misbehavior seen today, but the future floods, attacks and DOSing which will be launched in earnest once the content companies get serious about taking this network down. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 7.5 iQA/AwUBPVafIMPxH8jf3ohaEQIdeACgjD/TkZ2aCzYLwT3hM0nqyU9lZf0An1I4 UHx4YfvVVkNcVcr+5Ambi4Md =huDN -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella (fwd)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 At 4:12 AM + on 8/11/02, David Wagner wrote: I hope I don't need to point out that always using the same exit remailer does *not* prove that he is using just one hop. One can hold the exit remailer fixed while varying other hops in the path. Your question seems to be based on a mistaken assumption about how remailers work. Sorry to give that impression, and, as much as I respect you, and James Donald, who also makes the same assertion about me, both of you would be wrong in assuming that I don't know how remailers work, at least in principle. While I haven't ever built a remailer, I *have* used them on occasion, and I did edit Sameer Parekh's excellent introduction to anonymous remailers for one of the first issues of First Monday, when I was on the editorial board there in the middle 1990's. That said, I would be willing to bet a (very :-)) nominal amount that the esteemed Mr. AAARG! is, or was, in fact, using one hop, at most, though to prove the bet out would be difficult thing to do. In fact, to add further insult to his street cred, or at least kick some dust on his patent-leather penny-loafers, I wouldn't be surprised if the remailer is his own, though that would probably be too stupid even for him to do, and I'm not going to waste my time rooting out, even at a first pass, who runs the AAARG! remailer. I just say I wouldn't be surprised, is all. :-). At the foundation, then, my point is still the same one that I started with: the same, well, idiots, tend use the same outbound remailer hops, usually to the exclusion of all other remailer nodes, and, oddly enough, to the exclusion of all other users of that particular remailer. It becomes quite easy then to filter them out, which is, frankly, nice, at least as far as I'm concerned. Besides Mr. AAARG!, another user of a certain Austrian remailer node comes to mind. Both of those gentlemen, if I were to only charitably call them such, do not vary their output remailers, much less do other potentially clueful things, like actually sign their messages, for instance. Obviously all this might have to do with finding enough working remailers to string together, and, of course, the lack of genuinely any easy to use mixmaster clients out there, even now, and not for actually trying, using a whole bunch of money in a couple of cases. I suppose, given the use of lots of remailers as a platform to heckle ostensibly reasonable discussion from the back benches, if not to actually stalk online and send poison-pen email, it's easy to find their difficulty of use a blessing; though like most people who care about such things, it doesn't help the cause of ubiquitous internet privacy too much. Maybe we need cash, or something. Someday. :-). Ultimately, I think it boils down to genuine gall. If someone like Mr. AAARG! would actually endeavor to instruct the residents of the cryptography list, or even cypherpunks :-), of the utility of shoving a particularly egregious bit of technological emetic down our collective throats, or even the throat of the general public, one would think he would have a better clue about remailer hygiene when he treated us to his current round of venturi-vaporised drivel. So, Mr. AARG! is, probably, just some advanced-degree moke who works at Intel, or is a Waveoid, or other such Wintel digital rights management IP-control fellow traveller, and, given the paucity of his nocturnal emissions from behind the Great Oz's Green Velvet Curtain, or, better, the elementary answers people here are forced to use to explain more rudimentary things than remailer operations to him, probably helps me, just a smidge, with my assertion about his probable clueless use of the remailer network. Cheers, RAH -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 7.5 iQA/AwUBPVX8J8PxH8jf3ohaEQJ0MgCgv3PLVPALWxBzYhkTfINn8jC3WkoAoJ+g nkXbBBPv5oaQVL4qTSP+T0Fu =zqRj -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella (fwd)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 At 9:15 AM +0200 on 8/10/02, Eugen Leitl wrote: I don't try to filter, but to join several sources. Anonymous is an idiot, but at least an intelligent one. I can't leave him out without creating a skewed picture of what is going on. No offense meant, of course. To make sure I don't miss stuff like that is why I subscribe to your list anyway, even though I'm also subscribed to most of your sources. It is also why I was glad you caught something he said that confirmed, precisely, why he's still in my killfile. :-). I don't need to raise my blood pressure more than necessary. [Ob Cypherpunks: Seriously, folks. How clueful can someone be who clearly doesn't know how to use more than one remailer hop, as proven by the fact that he's always coming out of the *same* remailer all the time? Even more important, nobody *else* uses that remailer, which is why killfiling the idiot works so well to begin with...] Anyway, on this list in particular, I've found that what any number of smart people say about what the idiot du jour says is much more interesting than what the actual idiot says himself, which is why he can safely reside in a killfile. (Having said more than my share of stupid things here myself in 8 years here, and being no stranger to the odd killfile myself :-), I'm sure lots of peoples' irony meters are pegged, but, by definition, those folks can go fuck themselves, I figure. :-).) Cheers, RAH -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 7.5 iQA/AwUBPVV2YsPxH8jf3ohaEQI0mQCeIvBppfM6c2HfCQAyjlLn3w0UCfkAoIA8 NObxG1Bk8BPLraIx3LrjnJbL =dg+p -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
At 4:17 PM -0400 on 8/11/02, Sean Smith wrote: i guess it's appropriate that the world's deepest hole is next to something labelled a trust territory :) Tears run down my face, I laughed so much. My cheeks hurt, I'm smiling so hard... Cheers, RAH -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
i guess it's appropriate that the world's deepest hole is next to something labelled a trust territory :) --Sean :)
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella (fwd)
R. A. Hettinga wrote: [Ob Cypherpunks: Seriously, folks. How clueful can someone be who clearly doesn't know how to use more than one remailer hop, as proven by the fact that he's always coming out of the *same* remailer all the time? I hope I don't need to point out that always using the same exit remailer does *not* prove that he is using just one hop. One can hold the exit remailer fixed while varying other hops in the path. Your question seems to be based on a mistaken assumption about how remailers work.
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
AARG!Anonymous wrote: I will just point out that it was not my idea, but rather that Salon said that the Gnutella developers were considering moving to authorized clients. According to Eric, those developers are fundamentally stupid. According to Bram, the Gnutella developers don't understand their own protocol, and they are supporting an idea which will not help. Apparently their belief that clients like Qtrax are hurting the system is totally wrong, and keeping such clients off the system won't help. You can try running a sniffer on it yourself. Gnutella traffic is almost all search queries. As far as Freenet and MojoNation, we all know that the latter shut down, probably in part because the attempted traffic-control mechanisms made the whole network so unwieldy that it never worked. Mojo Nation actually had a completely excessive amount of bandwidth donated to it. There was a problem that people complained of losing mojo when running a server due to the total amount of upload being greater than the total amount of download. The main user experience disaster in Mojo Nation was that the retrieval rate for files was very bad, mostly due to the high peer churn rate. At least in part this was also due to malicious clients, according to the analysis at http://www.cs.rice.edu/Conferences/IPTPS02/188.pdf. Oh gee, that paper mostly talks about high churn rate too. In fact, I was one of the main developers of Mojo Nation, and based on lessons learned from that figured out how to build a system which can cope with very high churn rates and has good leech resistance. It is now mature and has had several quite successful deployments. http://bitconjurer.org/BitTorrent/ Not only are the algorithms used good for leech resistance, they are also very good at being robust under normal variances in net conditions - in fact, the decentralized greedy approach to resource allocation outperforms any known centralized method. The TCPA, even if it some day works perfectly (which I seriously doubt it will) would just plain not help with any of the immediate problems in Gnutella, BitTorrent, or Mojo Nation. I would guess the same is true for most, if not all other p2p systems. -Bram Cohen Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent -- John Maynard Keynes
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
There is a better way than the traditional 'client/server' approach (distributed or not). It addresses each and every one of these issues and its already written (by the people who invented Unix no less). And it's Open Source (under it's own license). Even has crypto built in. Plan 9. http://plan9.bell-labs.com And the only user/co-op group (not for long hopefully), http://open-forge.org On Sat, 10 Aug 2002, Jeroen C.van Gelderen wrote: On Friday, Aug 9, 2002, at 13:05 US/Eastern, AARG!Anonymous wrote: If only... Luckily the cypherpunks are doing all they can to make sure that no such technology ever exists. They will protect us from being able to extend trust across the network. They will make sure that any open network like Gnutella must forever face the challenge of rogue clients. They will make sure that open source systems are especially vulnerable to rogues, helping to drive these projects into closed source form. This argument is a straw man but to be fair: I am looking forward to your detailed proof that the only way to protect a Gnutella-like network from rogue clients is a Palladium-like system. You are so adamant that I have to assume you have such proof sitting right on your desk. Please share it with us. -J - The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending unsubscribe cryptography to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Conform and be dull..J. Frank Dobie [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.open-forge.org
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
TCPA and Palladium are content control for the masses. They are an attempt to encourage the public to confuse the public interest issues of content control with the private interest issues of privacy and security. Seth Johnson -- [CC] Counter-copyright: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/cc/cc.html I reserve no rights restricting copying, modification or distribution of this incidentally recorded communication. Original authorship should be attributed reasonably, but only so far as such an expectation might hold for usual practice in ordinary social discourse to which one holds no claim of exclusive rights.
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 20:25:40 -0700 From: AARG!Anonymous [EMAIL PROTECTED] Right, as if my normal style has been so effective. Not one person has given me the least support in my efforts to explain the truth about TCPA and Palladium. Hal, I think you were right on when you wrote: But feel free to make whatever assumptions you like about my motives. All I ask is that you respond to my facts. I, for one, support your efforts, even though I don't agree with some of your conclusions. It is clear that you hold a firm opinion that differs from what many others here believe, so in making your points you can expect objections to be raised. You will be more convincing (at least to me) if you continue to respond to these dispassionately on the basis of facts and reasoned opinions (your normal style?). Calling Lucky a liar is no more illuminating than others calling you an idiot.
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
On Sat, 10 Aug 2002, R. Hirschfeld wrote: Calling Lucky a liar is no more illuminating than others calling you an idiot. You're confusing a classification for an argument. The argument is over. You can read it up in the archives. If you think there's still anything left to discuss, I've got these plans of the Death Star I could sell you...
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
AARG!Anonymous wrote: I will just point out that it was not my idea, but rather that Salon said that the Gnutella developers were considering moving to authorized clients. According to Eric, those developers are fundamentally stupid. According to Bram, the Gnutella developers don't understand their own protocol, and they are supporting an idea which will not help. Apparently their belief that clients like Qtrax are hurting the system is totally wrong, and keeping such clients off the system won't help. You can try running a sniffer on it yourself. Gnutella traffic is almost all search queries. As far as Freenet and MojoNation, we all know that the latter shut down, probably in part because the attempted traffic-control mechanisms made the whole network so unwieldy that it never worked. Mojo Nation actually had a completely excessive amount of bandwidth donated to it. There was a problem that people complained of losing mojo when running a server due to the total amount of upload being greater than the total amount of download. The main user experience disaster in Mojo Nation was that the retrieval rate for files was very bad, mostly due to the high peer churn rate. At least in part this was also due to malicious clients, according to the analysis at http://www.cs.rice.edu/Conferences/IPTPS02/188.pdf. Oh gee, that paper mostly talks about high churn rate too. In fact, I was one of the main developers of Mojo Nation, and based on lessons learned from that figured out how to build a system which can cope with very high churn rates and has good leech resistance. It is now mature and has had several quite successful deployments. http://bitconjurer.org/BitTorrent/ Not only are the algorithms used good for leech resistance, they are also very good at being robust under normal variances in net conditions - in fact, the decentralized greedy approach to resource allocation outperforms any known centralized method. The TCPA, even if it some day works perfectly (which I seriously doubt it will) would just plain not help with any of the immediate problems in Gnutella, BitTorrent, or Mojo Nation. I would guess the same is true for most, if not all other p2p systems. -Bram Cohen Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent -- John Maynard Keynes
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
There is a better way than the traditional 'client/server' approach (distributed or not). It addresses each and every one of these issues and its already written (by the people who invented Unix no less). And it's Open Source (under it's own license). Even has crypto built in. Plan 9. http://plan9.bell-labs.com And the only user/co-op group (not for long hopefully), http://open-forge.org On Sat, 10 Aug 2002, Jeroen C.van Gelderen wrote: On Friday, Aug 9, 2002, at 13:05 US/Eastern, AARG!Anonymous wrote: If only... Luckily the cypherpunks are doing all they can to make sure that no such technology ever exists. They will protect us from being able to extend trust across the network. They will make sure that any open network like Gnutella must forever face the challenge of rogue clients. They will make sure that open source systems are especially vulnerable to rogues, helping to drive these projects into closed source form. This argument is a straw man but to be fair: I am looking forward to your detailed proof that the only way to protect a Gnutella-like network from rogue clients is a Palladium-like system. You are so adamant that I have to assume you have such proof sitting right on your desk. Please share it with us. -J - The Cryptography Mailing List Unsubscribe by sending unsubscribe cryptography to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Conform and be dull..J. Frank Dobie [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ssz.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.open-forge.org
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella (fwd)
R. A. Hettinga wrote: [Ob Cypherpunks: Seriously, folks. How clueful can someone be who clearly doesn't know how to use more than one remailer hop, as proven by the fact that he's always coming out of the *same* remailer all the time? I hope I don't need to point out that always using the same exit remailer does *not* prove that he is using just one hop. One can hold the exit remailer fixed while varying other hops in the path. Your question seems to be based on a mistaken assumption about how remailers work.
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella (fwd)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 At 4:12 AM + on 8/11/02, David Wagner wrote: I hope I don't need to point out that always using the same exit remailer does *not* prove that he is using just one hop. One can hold the exit remailer fixed while varying other hops in the path. Your question seems to be based on a mistaken assumption about how remailers work. Sorry to give that impression, and, as much as I respect you, and James Donald, who also makes the same assertion about me, both of you would be wrong in assuming that I don't know how remailers work, at least in principle. While I haven't ever built a remailer, I *have* used them on occasion, and I did edit Sameer Parekh's excellent introduction to anonymous remailers for one of the first issues of First Monday, when I was on the editorial board there in the middle 1990's. That said, I would be willing to bet a (very :-)) nominal amount that the esteemed Mr. AAARG! is, or was, in fact, using one hop, at most, though to prove the bet out would be difficult thing to do. In fact, to add further insult to his street cred, or at least kick some dust on his patent-leather penny-loafers, I wouldn't be surprised if the remailer is his own, though that would probably be too stupid even for him to do, and I'm not going to waste my time rooting out, even at a first pass, who runs the AAARG! remailer. I just say I wouldn't be surprised, is all. :-). At the foundation, then, my point is still the same one that I started with: the same, well, idiots, tend use the same outbound remailer hops, usually to the exclusion of all other remailer nodes, and, oddly enough, to the exclusion of all other users of that particular remailer. It becomes quite easy then to filter them out, which is, frankly, nice, at least as far as I'm concerned. Besides Mr. AAARG!, another user of a certain Austrian remailer node comes to mind. Both of those gentlemen, if I were to only charitably call them such, do not vary their output remailers, much less do other potentially clueful things, like actually sign their messages, for instance. Obviously all this might have to do with finding enough working remailers to string together, and, of course, the lack of genuinely any easy to use mixmaster clients out there, even now, and not for actually trying, using a whole bunch of money in a couple of cases. I suppose, given the use of lots of remailers as a platform to heckle ostensibly reasonable discussion from the back benches, if not to actually stalk online and send poison-pen email, it's easy to find their difficulty of use a blessing; though like most people who care about such things, it doesn't help the cause of ubiquitous internet privacy too much. Maybe we need cash, or something. Someday. :-). Ultimately, I think it boils down to genuine gall. If someone like Mr. AAARG! would actually endeavor to instruct the residents of the cryptography list, or even cypherpunks :-), of the utility of shoving a particularly egregious bit of technological emetic down our collective throats, or even the throat of the general public, one would think he would have a better clue about remailer hygiene when he treated us to his current round of venturi-vaporised drivel. So, Mr. AARG! is, probably, just some advanced-degree moke who works at Intel, or is a Waveoid, or other such Wintel digital rights management IP-control fellow traveller, and, given the paucity of his nocturnal emissions from behind the Great Oz's Green Velvet Curtain, or, better, the elementary answers people here are forced to use to explain more rudimentary things than remailer operations to him, probably helps me, just a smidge, with my assertion about his probable clueless use of the remailer network. Cheers, RAH -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 7.5 iQA/AwUBPVX8J8PxH8jf3ohaEQJ0MgCgv3PLVPALWxBzYhkTfINn8jC3WkoAoJ+g nkXbBBPv5oaQVL4qTSP+T0Fu =zqRj -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
p2p DoS resistance and network stability (Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella)
On Fri, Aug 09, 2002 at 08:25:40PM -0700, AARG!Anonymous wrote: Several people have objected to my point about the anti-TCPA efforts of Lucky and others causing harm to P2P applications like Gnutella. The point that a number of people made is that what is said in the article is not workable: clearly you can't ultimately exclude chosen clients on open computers due to reverse-engineering. (With TCPA/Palladium remote attestation you probably could so exclude competing clients, but this wasn't what was being talked about). The client exclusion plan is also particularly unworkable for gnutella because some of the clients are open-source, and the protocol is (now since original reverse engineering from nullsoft client) also open. With closed-source implementations there is some obfuscation barrier that can be made: Kazaa/Morpheus did succeed in frustrating competing clients due to it's closed protocols and unpublished encryption algorithm. At one point an open source group reverse-engineered the encryption algorithm, and from there the contained kazaa protocols, and built an interoperable open-source client giFT http://gift.sourceforge.net, but then FastTrack promptly changed the unpublished encryption algorithm to another one and then used remote code upgrade ability to upgrade all of the clients. Now the open-source group could counter-strike if they had particularly felt motivated to. For example they could (1) reverse-engineer the new unpublished encryption algorithm, and (2) the remote code upgrade, and then (3) do their own forced upgrade to an open encryption algorithm and (4) disable further forced upgrades. (giFT instead after the ugrade attack from FastTrack decided to implement their own open protocol openFT instead and compete. It also includes a general bridge between different file-sharing networks, in a somewhat gaim like way, if you are familiar with gaim.) [Freenet and Mojo melt-downs/failures...] Both of these are object lessons in the difficulties of successful P2P networking in the face of arbitrary client attacks. I grant you that making simultaneously DoS resistant, scalable and anonymous peer-to-peer networks is a Hard Problem. Even removing the anonymous part it's still a Hard Problem. Note both Freenet and Mojo try to tackle the harder of those two problems and have aspects of publisher and reader anonymity, so that they are doing less well than Kazaa, gnutella and others is partly because they are more ambitious and tackling a harder problem. Also the anonymity aspect possibly makes abuse more likely -- ie the attacker is provided as part of the system tools to obscure his own identity in attacking the system. DoSers of Kazaa or gnutella would likely be more easily identified which is some deterrence. I also agree that the TCPA/Palladium attested closed world computing model could likely more simply address some of these problems. (Lucky slide critique in another post). Adam -- http://www.cypherspace.org/adam/
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella (fwd)
I don't try to filter, but to join several sources. Anonymous is an idiot, but at least an intelligent one. I can't leave him out without creating a skewed picture of what is going on. On Fri, 9 Aug 2002, R. A. Hettinga wrote: At 1:03 AM +0200 on 8/10/02, Some anonymous, and now apparently innumerate, idiot in my killfile got himself forwarded to Mr. Leitl's cream of cypherpunks list:
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 20:25:40 -0700 From: AARG!Anonymous [EMAIL PROTECTED] Right, as if my normal style has been so effective. Not one person has given me the least support in my efforts to explain the truth about TCPA and Palladium. Hal, I think you were right on when you wrote: But feel free to make whatever assumptions you like about my motives. All I ask is that you respond to my facts. I, for one, support your efforts, even though I don't agree with some of your conclusions. It is clear that you hold a firm opinion that differs from what many others here believe, so in making your points you can expect objections to be raised. You will be more convincing (at least to me) if you continue to respond to these dispassionately on the basis of facts and reasoned opinions (your normal style?). Calling Lucky a liar is no more illuminating than others calling you an idiot.
Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
An article on Salon this morning (also being discussed on slashdot), http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/08/08/gnutella_developers/print.html, discusses how the file-trading network Gnutella is being threatened by misbehaving clients. In response, the developers are looking at limiting the network to only authorized clients: On Gnutella discussion sites, programmers are discussing a number of technical proposals that would make access to the network contingent on good behavior: If you write code that hurts Gnutella, in other words, you don't get to play. One idea would allow only clients that you can authenticate to speak on the network, Fisk says. This would include the five-or-so most popular Gnutella applications, including Limewire, BearShare, Toadnode, Xolox, Gtk-Gnutella, and Gnucleus. If new clients want to join the group, they would need to abide by a certain communication specification. They intend to do this using digital signatures, and there is precedent for this in past situations where there have been problems: Alan Cox, a veteran Linux developer, says that he's seen this sort of debate before, and he's not against a system that keeps out malicious users using technology. Years and years ago this came up with a game called Xtrek, Cox says. People were building clients with unfair capabilities to play the space game -- and the solution, says Cox, was to introduce digital signatures. Unless a client has been signed, it can't play. You could build any client you wanted, but what you can't do is build an Xtrek client that let you play better. Not discussed in the article is the technical question of how this can possibly work. If you issue a digital certificate on some Gnutella client, what stops a different client, an unauthorized client, from pretending to be the legitimate one? This is especially acute if the authorized client is open source, as then anyone can see the cert, see exactly what the client does with it, and merely copy that behavior. If only there were a technology in which clients could verify and yes, even trust, each other remotely. Some way in which a digital certificate on a program could actually be verified, perhaps by some kind of remote, trusted hardware device. This way you could know that a remote system was actually running a well-behaved client before admitting it to the net. This would protect Gnutella from not only the kind of opportunistic misbehavior seen today, but the future floods, attacks and DOSing which will be launched in earnest once the content companies get serious about taking this network down. If only... Luckily the cypherpunks are doing all they can to make sure that no such technology ever exists. They will protect us from being able to extend trust across the network. They will make sure that any open network like Gnutella must forever face the challenge of rogue clients. They will make sure that open source systems are especially vulnerable to rogues, helping to drive these projects into closed source form. Be sure and send a note to the Gnutella people reminding them of all you're doing for them, okay, Lucky?
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
On Fri, Aug 09, 2002 at 10:05:15AM -0700, AARG! Anonymous wrote: On Gnutella discussion sites, programmers are discussing a number of technical proposals that would make access to the network contingent on good behavior: If you write code that hurts Gnutella, in other words, you don't get to play. One idea would allow only clients that you can authenticate to speak on the network, Fisk says. This would include the five-or-so most popular Gnutella applications, including Limewire, BearShare, Toadnode, Xolox, Gtk-Gnutella, and Gnucleus. If new clients want to join the group, they would need to abide by a certain communication specification. They intend to do this using digital signatures, and there is precedent for this in past situations where there have been problems: Depending on the clients to do the right thing is fundamentally stupid. [..] Be sure and send a note to the Gnutella people reminding them of all you're doing for them, okay, Lucky? This sort of attack doesn't do your position any good. Eric
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
AARG!Anonymous wrote: If only there were a technology in which clients could verify and yes, even trust, each other remotely. Some way in which a digital certificate on a program could actually be verified, perhaps by some kind of remote, trusted hardware device. This way you could know that a remote system was actually running a well-behaved client before admitting it to the net. This would protect Gnutella from not only the kind of opportunistic misbehavior seen today, but the future floods, attacks and DOSing which will be launched in earnest once the content companies get serious about taking this network down. Before claiming that the TCPA, which is from a deployment standpoint vaporware, could help with gnutella's scaling problems, you should probably learn something about what gnutella's problems are first. The truth is that gnutella's problems are mostly that it's a screamer protocol, and limiting which clients could connect would do nothing to fix that. Limiting which clients could connect to the gnutella network would, however, do a decent job of forcing to pay people for one of the commercial clients. In this way it's very typical of how TCPA works - a non-solution to a problem, but one which could potentially make money, and has the support of gullible dupes who know nothing about the technical issues involved. Be sure and send a note to the Gnutella people reminding them of all you're doing for them, okay, Lucky? Your personal vendetta against Lucky is very childish. -Bram Cohen Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent -- John Maynard Keynes
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
On Fri, 9 Aug 2002, AARG!Anonymous wrote: ... / Not discussed in the article is the technical question of how this can possibly work. If you issue a digital certificate on some Gnutella client, what stops a different client, an unauthorized client, from pretending to be the legitimate one? This is especially acute if the authorized client is open source, as then anyone can see the cert, see exactly what the client does with it, and merely copy that behavior. If only there were a technology in which clients could verify and yes, even trust, each other remotely. Some way in which a digital certificate on a program could actually be verified, perhaps by some kind of remote, trusted hardware device. This way you could know that a remote system was actually running a well-behaved client before admitting it to the net. This would protect Gnutella from not only the kind of opportunistic misbehavior seen today, but the future floods, attacks and DOSing which will be launched in earnest once the content companies get serious about taking this network down. There are many solutions at the level of technical protocols that solve the projection of these problems down to the low dimensional subspace of technical problems. Some of these technical protocols will be part of a full system which accomplishes the desired ends. Please contact me off-list if you willing to spend some money for an implementation. Your claim, if true, would also demonstrate that no credit card payments over the Net, no apt-get style updating, no Paypal-like system, no crypto time-stamp system, etc., can exist today. If only... Luckily the cypherpunks are doing all they can to make sure that no such technology ever exists. They will protect us from being able to extend trust across the network. They will make sure that any open network like Gnutella must forever face the challenge of rogue clients. They will make sure that open source systems are especially vulnerable to rogues, helping to drive these projects into closed source form. Be sure and send a note to the Gnutella people reminding them of all you're doing for them, okay, Lucky? AARG!, this is again unworthy of you. You are capable of attempting to confuse and misdirect at a higher level. You might wish to emphasize that the real difficulties are at the levels where the reasons for the small usage of GNUPG lie. That really the technical details of the TCPA/Palladium system hardly matter. What TCPA/Palladium will allow is the provision to the masses of even more powerful brews of fantasy, game playing, advertising, etc.. And that there will be a small number of hobbyists who use the unprotected ports of TCPA/Palladium for their own limited experiments/amusements/etc.. The real point of TCPA/Palladium is that a locus of trust, seemingly guaranteed by the Powers That Be, will be created, and that the existence of this same locus, under the facies of locus of dealmaking/lawyering, will so reassure the Infotainment Arm of the Englobulators that the Arm will unleash its extraordinary forces to build and sell ever more entrancing Palaces of Dreams. The unprotected ports will allow a mostly self-supporting farm team system which will function without much direct oversight and little outlay of money by Englobulator Central or any of the Arms. The limited freedom of the Farm System, with its convenient pull strings, for the cases where something large and not controlled by Those Who Know Best takes off, will be a powerful lure to up and coming future Talent, who, when the time comes, may be Signed, without today's confusing and annoying possibility of continued independence. Indeed, the EULA of every system might have a section which binds users who display Marketable Things to an automatic Arbitration of Contract. oo--JS.
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
On Fri, 9 Aug 2002, Jay Sulzberger wrote: There are many solutions at the level of technical protocols that solve the projection of these problems down to the low dimensional subspace of technical problems. Some of these technical protocols will be part of a full system which accomplishes the desired ends. Please contact me off-list if you willing to spend some money for an implementation. Hey! Tell the Gnutella folks I'll be happy to bid on that too! I'm pretty sure I can get them a solid solution, especially since it's just a technical problem. Patience, persistence, truth, Dr. mike
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
Anonymous wrote: ... the file-trading network Gnutella is being threatened by misbehaving clients. In response, the developers are looking at limiting the network to only authorized clients: This is the wrong solution. One of the important factors in the Internet's growth was that the IETF exercised enough control, but not too much. So HTTP is standardised, which allows (theoretically) any browser to talk to any web server. At the same time the higher levels are not standardised, so someone who has an idea for a better browser or web server is free to implement it. If you build a protocol which allows selfish behaviour, you have done your job badly. Preventing selfish behaviour in distributed systems is not easy, but that is the problem we need to solve. It would be a good discussion for this list. Not discussed in the article is the technical question of how this can possibly work. If you issue a digital certificate on some Gnutella client, what stops a different client, an unauthorized client, from pretending to be the legitimate one? Exactly. This has already happened with unauthorised AIM clients. My freedom to lie allows me to use GAIM rather than AOL's client. In this case, IMO, the ethics are the other way round. AOL seeks to use its (partial) monopoly to keep a grip on the IM market. The freedom to lie mitigates this monopoly to an extent. -- Pete
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
Antonomasia wrote: My copy of Peer to Peer (Oram, O'Reilly) is out on loan but I think Freenet and Mojo use protocols that require new users to be contributors before they become consumers. (Leaving aside that Gnutella seems doomed on scalability grounds.) Freenet and Mojo Nation have had serious issues in the wild, but my project, BitTorrent, is currently being used in serious deployment, and its leech resistance algorithms are proving quite robust - http://bitconjurer.org/BitTorrent/ This is a very narrow form of leech resistance, but it may be all that is needed. -Bram Cohen Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent -- John Maynard Keynes
Re: Thanks, Lucky, for helping to kill gnutella
From: AARG!Anonymous [EMAIL PROTECTED] An article on Salon this morning (also being discussed on slashdot), http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/08/08/gnutella_developers/print.html, discusses how the file-trading network Gnutella is being threatened by misbehaving clients. In response, the developers are looking at limiting the network to only authorized clients: They intend to do this using digital signatures, and there is precedent for this in past situations where there have been problems: Alan Cox, Years and years ago this came up with a game If only there were a technology in which clients could verify and yes, Be sure and send a note to the Gnutella people reminding them of all you're doing for them, okay, Lucky? Now that is resorting to silly accusation. My copy of Peer to Peer (Oram, O'Reilly) is out on loan but I think Freenet and Mojo use protocols that require new users to be contributors before they become consumers. (Leaving aside that Gnutella seems doomed on scalability grounds.) Likewise the WAN shooter games have (partially) defended against cheats by making the client hold no authoritative data and by disqualifying those that send impossible traffic. (Excluding wireframe graphics cards is another matter.) If I were a serious gamer I'd want 2 communities - one for plain clients to match gaming skills and another for cheat all you like contests to match both gaming and programming skills. If the Gnuts need to rework the protocol they should do so. My objection to this TCPA/palladium thing is that it looks aimed at ending ordinary computing. If the legal scene were radically different this wouldn't be causing nearly so much fuss. Imagine: - a DoJ that can enforce monopoly law - copyright that expires in reasonable time (5 years for s/w ? 15 years for books,films,music... ?) - fair use and first sale are retained - no concept of indirect infringement (e.g. selling marker pens) - criminal and civil liability for incorrectly barring access in DRM - hacking is equally illegal for everybody - no restriction on making and distributing/selling any h/w,s/w If Anonymous presents Gnutella for serious comparison with the above issues I say he's looking in the wrong end of his telescope. -- ## # Antonomasia ant notatla.demon.co.uk # # See http://www.notatla.demon.co.uk/# ##
