zombie patriots
At 02:04 AM 7/10/04 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I posted a few months back offering an alternative to religion in recruitment: the terminally ill. Yes, that remains valid. As does anonymous broadcasting, eg usenet stego.The essential problem for us sleeper cells is to be able to access the alt.port DB without 1. this being anomolous 2. the posted files being detectable. There's a nordic fellow, Nichols something or other, who has looked for stego'd files in high-bandwidth places. He has not found a babypicture hidden in a diagram of the 1945 plane-into-skyscraper picture I have posted at an alt port with even the tool passhprase issued. Just FYI. I haven't tried posting a double-message to eBay yet, not really having anyone to communicate with, but it would be trivial. Data - compress - encrypt - encode All your faxes are belong to us. I read your email is not just a bumper sticker in Maryland.
Re: Zombie Patriots and other musings
At 12:34 PM 12/14/03 -0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote: At 11:52 AM 12/13/03 -0500, John Kelsey wrote: .. One interesting property of the lone warriors is that they can't actually make peace. Good points, but not entirely true. For instance, we could stop the Jihad (tm) (including future Jihads by other parties) by stopping all foreign aid, following the good general's advice, Trade with all, make treaties with none, and beware of foreign entanglements. So, I think that's pretty sound advice, but I don't think any of the top ten reasons for supporting it involve whether Al Qaida will stop attacking us. Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but our foreign policy ought to be made based on what is in our long-term best interest (our meaning American citizens); realistically, terrorist attacks are a fairly small part of that calculation. For example, we could presumably beat China in a war, but such a war would be enormously more expensive and dangerous than fighting Al Qaida. If continuing to play world's policeman improves our chances of avoiding war with China, at the cost of bringing about some attacks from Al Qaida, that's a win for us. Now, I suspect that playing world's policeman does *not* make us less likely to get into really dangerous and expensive war, and often gets us caught up in little wars that could expand into bigger ones. (The Korean war apparently came relatively close to getting us into a war with China, for example.) But there's at least some argument to be made about that--for example, by ensuring the security of Japan and Germany, we have avoided having two potentially very well-armed and dangerous opponents wandering around, possibly going on an empire-building spree that would have forced us into a nuclear war with them sooner or later. .. Of course, there's a more fundamental problem with surrendering to the lone warriors. Imagine that there's such a wave of pro-life terrorism that we finally agree to ban abortion. You're a fanatically committed pro-choice activist. What's your next move? Rudolph bombed clinics, not random people because the govt allowed the clinics. Contrast with a distributed jihad which attacks citizens to sway a govt. Isn't he alleged to have also done the Olympic Park bombing? (Who knows whether he really did, or whether the FBI just assumed he had so they'd only have one domestic terrorist at large.) Anyway, my point is that it's never going to be acceptable for the US government to pull out of making decisions about policy within the US. A campaign of terrorism against abortion clinics, or against liquor stores, or against bookstores, can't be responded to by changes in policy to appease the terrorists without giving up on any kind of a free society. --John Kelsey, [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP: FA48 3237 9AD5 30AC EEDD BBC8 2A80 6948 4CAA F259
Re: Zombie Patriots and other musings
On Tue, Dec 16, 2003 at 06:59:59PM -0500, John Kelsey wrote: us. Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but our foreign policy ought to be made based on what is in our long-term best interest (our meaning American citizens); realistically, terrorist attacks are a fairly small part of that calculation. For example, we could presumably beat China in a Oh, but our foreign policy is based on our long term best interest, or so our minders tell us: Our overriding purpose, from the beginning through to the present day, has been world domination - that is, to build and maintain the capacity to coerce everybody else on the planet: nonviolently, if possible, and violently, if necessary. But the purpose of US foreign policy of domination is not just to make the rest of the world jump through hoops; the purpose is to facilitate our exploitation of resources. - Ramsey Clark, former US Attorney General http://www.thesunmagazine.org/bully.html Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Zombie Patriots and other musings
(resend) At 11:52 AM 12/13/03 -0500, John Kelsey wrote: At 09:19 AM 12/12/03 -0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote: ... You need to think about the lone warrior scenario that the Gang worries about. McVeighs and Rudolphs. They were influenced by memes which were not immediately suppressed. One interesting property of the lone warriors is that they can't actually make peace. Good points, but not entirely true. For instance, we could stop the Jihad (tm) (including future Jihads by other parties) by stopping all foreign aid, following the good general's advice, Trade with all, make treaties with none, and beware of foreign entanglements. If you take yourself out of the game, you are not seen by a player which can be influenced. Or which influencing would do any good to a given cause. A government can take itself (and thus the proles that fed the NYC rodentia the second week of Sept 01) out of the game, while individuals (corporations) continue to trade freely, and at their own consensual risk. The point is that while the soldiers are independent, their motivations are not. So you can reduce the cost of the lone warriors to you by not annoying them any more. Of course, there's a more fundamental problem with surrendering to the lone warriors. Imagine that there's such a wave of pro-life terrorism that we finally agree to ban abortion. You're a fanatically committed pro-choice activist. What's your next move? Rudolph bombed clinics, not random people because the govt allowed the clinics. Contrast with a distributed jihad which attacks citizens to sway a govt. If the US went neutral, whether Halliburton was in Arabia would be entirely an economic question, involving the cost of paying off widows or hiring Islamic workers, or buying the goods through a third party. Instead its a policy question, the only way to influence it is to bring it home ---the only language the American people understand is dead Americans. -EC --- Can you hear me now? -UBL, 11.9.01
Re: Patriot Ants (was: Re: Zombie Patriots and other musings)
From: Thomas Shaddack [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sat, 13 Dec 2003, John Kelsey wrote: Of course, there's a more fundamental problem with surrendering to the lone warriors. Imagine that there's such a wave of pro-life terrorism that we finally agree to ban abortion. You're a fanatically committed pro-choice activist. What's your next move? Two moves possible. The violent, far less effective and possibly somehow counterproductive one: attacking the ones who enforce the measurement, by letal or nonlethal means, to act as deterrent. I think you should the word possibly when referring to effectiveness of outcomes. One can never knows until one tries. Every monment in history is unique and the effectiveness of the use of a particular strategy can never be ascertained beforehand. Mine is based on at least two inspirations... How we burned in the prison camps later thinking: What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? --Alexander Solzhenitzyn, Gulag Archipelago and Our government... teaches the whole people by its example. If the government becomes the lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. -- Louis D. Brandeis As Americans I'm sure we have been tutored by some of the best. Time to put into practice what we have learned. The nonviolent one: developing and deploying the technology necessary for underground clinics to provide higher quality service, and for their clients to find, order and pay for the services without being likely to trace down by the Whateveriscurrentlythelaw Enforcement. Causing bad press for them, keeping public awareness that alternatives to the law-compliance exist. Learning from countries with similar bans in action, both from the present and from history, how the alternatives developed there, and building on this knowledge. Direct attack is not always the best route, however tempting. A house can be brought down from the outside by a bomb, or from the inside by white ants. The trouble with this method is that is generally requires a large percentage of the population to actively or passively support a position. This almost always occurs after a situation has become intolerable to the masses. I have no intention in placing my ability to enjoy what I consider my basic rights into the hands of a million Joe Sixpacks and await their enlightenment. The only freedom which counts is the freedom to do what some other people think to be wrong. There is no point in demanding freedom to do that which all will applaud. All the so-called liberties or rights are things which have to be asserted against others who claim that if such things are to be allowed their own rights are infringed or their own liberties threatened. This is always true, even when we speak of the freedom to worship, of the right of free speech or association, or of public assembly. If we are to allow freedoms at all there will constantly be complaints that either the liberty itself or the way in which it is exercised is being abused, and, if it is a genuine freedom, these complaints will often be justified. There is no way of having a free society in which there is not abuse. Abuse is the very hallmark of liberty. -- Quintin H. Hailsham, The Dilemma of Democracy Get ready for a lot of abuse...
Patriot Ants (was: Re: Zombie Patriots and other musings)
On Sat, 13 Dec 2003, John Kelsey wrote: Of course, there's a more fundamental problem with surrendering to the lone warriors. Imagine that there's such a wave of pro-life terrorism that we finally agree to ban abortion. You're a fanatically committed pro-choice activist. What's your next move? Two moves possible. The violent, far less effective and possibly somehow counterproductive one: attacking the ones who enforce the measurement, by letal or nonlethal means, to act as deterrent. The nonviolent one: developing and deploying the technology necessary for underground clinics to provide higher quality service, and for their clients to find, order and pay for the services without being likely to trace down by the Whateveriscurrentlythelaw Enforcement. Causing bad press for them, keeping public awareness that alternatives to the law-compliance exist. Learning from countries with similar bans in action, both from the present and from history, how the alternatives developed there, and building on this knowledge. Direct attack is not always the best route, however tempting. A house can be brought down from the outside by a bomb, or from the inside by white ants. Insect survival strategies are distributed and largely successful; I am pretty sure we can learn a lot from there. One Patriot Ant doesn't have to fight in any big way, doing heroic deeds or big sacrifices; enough people who just provide samizdat for few friends, know what files to mirror, when to look away, what to be unable to remember when questioned by the Authorities, who know the newsbits that aren't officially reported and tell their friends can make big difference. The strength of Patriot Ants isn't in their individual strength, they don't make headlines - they just eat the System from the inside, one bite at time.
Re: Zombie Patriots and other musings
It was discovered a while back, check the archives, or Tim's FAQ, that all the remailers were compromised, with or without the operator's complicity with TLAs. After that discovery there was a turning of the covert control to re-direct it toward its implementer(s). That was soon re-turned by the TLAs back at the turners, a cycle-countercycle that continues now. One day you may be read by the TLAs, the next read by the remailer operators, each looking for evidence of nefarium by the other so that countermeasures can be invented and deployed. While the remailer/coopt-remailer make-work has kept a couple of cut-out remailer operators busy in Bhopal keeping the TLAs focussed on threats to the institutionalized suppression of anonymous speech, astute anonymity performers are jabbering at mirrors and pontificating to pets against law and order elsewhere. For a small fortune you can subscribe to a source of absolutely secure means of communications tested by centuries of reliability. Blind Faith. No, not that of the Masons, and certainly not nouveau-cult Skull and Bones, nor even Tri-Lateral Commies, what you have to do to get entry is to Fedex weapons grade anthrax to the homes (and/or lovers) of heads of government worldwide. You get ten HoGs, or 5,000 celebrities, certifiable by swissbank.com forwarded to you of their secret account deposits, you're in. Call yourself god's emissary. And then a target for someone younger and smarter and far uglier in ruthless mayhem, driven by murderous, most often suicidal, hatred for everything holy. Dread of easily-blameworthy TLAs is for cotton-candy addicts. Fear not those carrying a peashooter, instead those armed with horrifying urges beyond belief.
Re: Zombie Patriots and other musings
On Sat, Dec 13, 2003 at 03:40:07AM +0100, Nomen Nescio wrote: Anonymous wrote: Nomen pondered: Why robbing banks? Aside from allowing the government to regulate them, what have they done to deserve being robbed Why not? Revolutionaries need money, and the financial sector has always been asshole buddies with the police, politicians, and other pigs. Retarded. Someone trying to frame Mr. Seaver by adopting his three-space paragraph lead-ins. WTF is this bizarre shit? We got narcs trolling for terrorists and more (or the same) narcs attempting to do textual analysis to figure out who the anon replies are from? Or pretending to do so to implicate others? And what is my supposed three-space paragraph lead-ins? The concept of textual analysis to prove ID has always amused me. A competent writer can easily change writing styles from moment to moment. I well recall a university english lit prof almost accusing me of plagarism when I wrote a piece mimicking Faulkner and doing so well enough that the prof actually started looking thru his works trying to find it. -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com
Re: Zombie Patriots and other musings
A question for the moment might well be how many if any of the remailers are operated by TLAs?
Re: Zombie Patriots and other musings
does it matter? Anonymous wrote: A question for the moment might well be how many if any of the remailers are operated by TLAs?
Re: Zombie Patriots and other musings
At 09:19 AM 12/12/03 -0800, Major Variola (ret) wrote: .. You need to think about the lone warrior scenario that the Gang worries about. McVeighs and Rudolphs. They were influenced by memes which were not immediately suppressed. One interesting property of the lone warriors is that they can't actually make peace. With large sets of them, there's not only no way to force them to surrender, there's no way to even surrender to them! The demands of different lone warriors are different. Because they're not under anyone's authority, you can't negotiate a truce that's worth anything with them. You've executed the FBI and BATF agents involved in the Waco disaster, and so Tim McVeigh has made peace with you. But Randolph still blows things up, because he wants abortion clinics and gay bars shut down. And the Unabomber wanted (as far as I can tell) technology shut down. Of course, there's a more fundamental problem with surrendering to the lone warriors. Imagine that there's such a wave of pro-life terrorism that we finally agree to ban abortion. You're a fanatically committed pro-choice activist. What's your next move? --John Kelsey, [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP: FA48 3237 9AD5 30AC EEDD BBC8 2A80 6948 4CAA F259
Re: Zombie Patriots and other musings
On Sat, Dec 13, 2003 at 06:49:15PM +0100, Anonymous wrote: A question for the moment might well be how many if any of the remailers are operated by TLAs? The community is small enough so that the fraction must be in low 10% at worst. What'd be interesting to know how secure the remailer software is and whether remailer machines get more frequently compromised than comparable machines. Ingress/egress points into nodes are potentially subject to traffic analysis and interception of egressing cleartext. I'm not sure anyone is giving a damn, though. -- Eugen* Leitl a href=http://leitl.org;leitl/a __ ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144http://www.leitl.org 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: Zombie Patriots and other musings
From: An Metet [EMAIL PROTECTED] The devil is in details. Given small numbers and absence of any other grouping factor there needs to be an obvious place for ZPs to refer to. Any obvious place that becomes even remotely attractive to ZPs will be immediately raided. If you mean a physical location you're probably right. Because ZPs have potential to be actually dangerous to the gang in power, as opposed to everything else I've seen so far. So we're back to square one - effective anonymous publishing is prerequisite for the regime change and executing post-natal abortions. And it has been for centuries. Not at. All that is required is for a few early adopters to point the way and then make their statments through the popular press. Look at what havoc two Joe Sixpacks caused D.C. operating out of the back of a slightly modified sedan. Imagine if they had the home addersses of lots of federal agents instead of randomly picking other Joes filling up their gas tanks. I've heard a project has been underway for some time to create and publish dossiers for federal officers. When I say effective I don't mean posting a message to Usenet via WiFI-ing into some sucker's open AP. No one gives a fuck for Usenet postings, blacknet etc. - and ZPs are unlikely to educate themselves and search for them. Effective means untouchable web site with untouchable DNS entry. Effective means something doable by average determined person. Like tuning to Radio London from occupied Europe in WW2. Create dossiers on a broad variety the hoster management. If sites are terminated or their DNS is disabled so will managemnt and/or their familes. Like a force of nature, no explanation warning or threat. I2P is coming. With six months it should offer a stable and fairly bullet proof platform for lots of nice apps. It should be easy to install and operate in most consumer net situations. Like I said, we're back to square one - all effective means are firmly shut down. Waaa!!! Waaa!!! What a cry baby. Pick you target, go out and shake things up.
Re: Zombie Patriots and other musings
The devil is in details. Given small numbers and absence of any other grouping factor there needs to be an obvious place for ZPs to refer to. Any obvious place that becomes even remotely attractive to ZPs will be immediately raided. Because ZPs have potential to be actually dangerous to the gang in power, as opposed to everything else I've seen so far. So we're back to square one - effective anonymous publishing is prerequisite for the regime change and executing post-natal abortions. And it has been for centuries. When I say effective I don't mean posting a message to Usenet via WiFI-ing into some sucker's open AP. No one gives a fuck for Usenet postings, blacknet etc. - and ZPs are unlikely to educate themselves and search for them. Effective means untouchable web site with untouchable DNS entry. Effective means something doable by average determined person. Like tuning to Radio London from occupied Europe in WW2. Like I said, we're back to square one - all effective means are firmly shut down. Most cpunk talk about secret/stego messaging is mental masturbation that does not relate to the real thing. We want sex.
Re: Zombie Patriots and other musings
At 10:12 PM 12/11/03 -0500, An Metet wrote: Given small numbers and absence of any other grouping factor there needs to be an obvious place for ZPs to refer to. Any obvious place that becomes even remotely attractive to ZPs will be immediately raided. Because ZPs have potential to be actually dangerous to the gang in power, as opposed to everything else I've seen so far. So we're back to square one - effective anonymous publishing is prerequisite for the regime change and executing post-natal abortions. And it has been for centuries. You need to think about the lone warrior scenario that the Gang worries about. McVeighs and Rudolphs. They were influenced by memes which were not immediately suppressed. Look at Al Q, Inc: you don't need explicit instructions from the Boss to motivate folks to do things. You see who is the enemy, you see opportunity. You don't need permission. There is also the copycat phenom ---remember how school shootings reccurred after the first big one? So the memes can get out. As Tim has mentioned here, the talkers can't be the doers. And watch out for COINTELPRO. When I say effective I don't mean posting a message to Usenet via WiFI-ing into some sucker's open AP. No one gives a fuck for Usenet postings, blacknet etc Well, some do, but its not relevent for ZPs. . - and ZPs are unlikely to educate themselves and search for them. Effective means untouchable web site with untouchable DNS entry. Fuck the web. The web is 0wn3d by the feds and run by largely spineless fedsucking sheep. The web is for talkers, not doers. Effective means something doable by average determined person. Like tuning to Radio London from occupied Europe in WW2. I don't listen to shortwave, but I understand some of it can be fairly strong. I could easily see some lunatic fringe suggesting that deathbed xians blowing up medical clinics as a holy thing. (And I understand that shortwave is popular among lunatic xians.) As the US descends into statism, perhaps some agitators will pick better targets, like the oppressors. Perhaps some will simply begin to act, the news reports it, and others will clue in and repeat.
Re: Zombie Patriots and other musings
At 9:19 AM -0800 12/12/03, Major Variola (ret) wrote: Look at Al Q, Inc: you don't need explicit instructions from the Boss to motivate folks to do things. You see who is the enemy, you see opportunity. You don't need permission. Yup. That's the way Reagan operated, too. I'm just finishing up Ronald Reagan: The Power of Conviction and the Success of His Presidency. The middle and last of which is a President's Counsel-eye view of his role in the Iran/Contra thing, but the beginning of which makes exactly the point you're making. The troops really did take their cues from public pronouncements at things like the State of the Union speech, and he really did run things with, shall we say, as little attention to detail as possible. Keep your message simple, say it a lot, and people can make up their own stuff without too much supervision. Ollie North as the extreme example, but you can bet that Reagan certainly didn't have to tell people like Schultz and Weinberger how to do their jobs. George Will's comparison of his management style to that of a Turkish Pasha's was not a bad one, hmmm? Cheers, RAH -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA ... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to experience. -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
Re: Zombie Patriots and other musings
Another excellent group of potential recruits are prisoners. Especially if you can create a new religious movement teaching them to stop the interracial, intergang fighting and concentrate on their true enemy, the Man. Teach that killing cops, soldiers, any type of government agent, is a holy act. Robbing banks is a holy act. Killing the guards in the prisons, killing the excutives of polluting industries -- all holy acts. Leaflets could be dropped from radio controlled balloons during yard time preaching the Word.
RE: Zombie Patriots and other musings [was: Re: (No Subject)]
At 02:07 PM 12/11/03 -0500, Trei, Peter wrote: It's worth noting that despite over a decade of this rhetoric, not a single terminally ill American has done this, so far as I am aware. Well, I think for most terminal illnesses, by the time it's obvious you're really not going to live much longer, you're pretty damned sick. And until then, you'd probably like to make some personal use of what days or weeks you have left doing something like talking to your kids, praying, composing that last piece of music, etc., rather than blowing random strangers up to make some political point. (Wouldn't it be a hell of a depressing statement about yourself, if you really believed that the most valuable use of the last hours of your life of which you were capable would involve strapping some dynamite to yourself and taking out a busload of random strangers?) Along with that, most people care about either the afterlife form of immortality, or at least the reputation/legacy form of immortality. Even if you don't worry about lakes of fire and red guys with pitchforks, you might prefer not to have your family and friends humiliated and ashamed at the mention of your name. (Oh my God! That was *your* son? How do you live with that?) The *only* even vaguely simlar cases I'm aware of are in India and Sri Lanka, where young Hindu widows (who, in traditional Hindu society have very dim prospects for a happy life) are recruited as suicide bombers by the Tamil Tigers. I think Rajiv Ghandi's assassin was such a woman. So there, the women are still healthy enough to do something, and doing the suicide bombing thing won't leave behind a legacy of relatives who change their names to avoid being associated with you. Peter Trei --John Kelsey, [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP: FA48 3237 9AD5 30AC EEDD BBC8 2A80 6948 4CAA F259
Re: Zombie Patriots and other musings
Original Message From: Anonymous [EMAIL PROTECTED] Apparently from: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Zombie Patriots and other musings Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 05:32:48 +0100 (CET) The devil is in details. Given small numbers and absence of any other grouping factor there needs to be an obvious place for ZPs to refer to. Any obvious place that becomes even remotely attractive to ZPs will be immediately raided. Because ZPs have potential to be actually dangerous to the gang in power, as opposed to everything else I've seen so far. Like I said, we're back to square one - all effective means are firmly shut down. Most cpunk talk about secret/stego messaging is mental masturbation that does not relate to the real thing. We want sex. I think this is a new use for SPAM. Because its a political message it may even be protected under the new Congressional legislation. :-)
RE: Zombie Patriots and other musings [was: Re: (No Subject)]
From: John Kelsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 02:07 PM 12/11/03 -0500, Trei, Peter wrote: It's worth noting that despite over a decade of this rhetoric, not a single terminally ill American has done this, so far as I am aware. Well, I think for most terminal illnesses, by the time it's obvious you're really not going to live much longer, you're pretty damned sick. About half of my friends who died of a terminal illness were apparently quite healthy when told they had joined the nearly departed. And until then, you'd probably like to make some personal use of what days or weeks you have left doing something like talking to your kids, praying, composing that last piece of music, etc., rather than blowing random strangers up to make some political point. Isn't it depressing than some have been living their lives in a way that such an 11th hour changes of heart are necessary or desired? (Wouldn't it be a hell of a depressing statement about yourself, if you really believed that the most valuable use of the last hours of your life of which you were capable would involve strapping some dynamite to yourself and taking out a busload of random strangers?) Who mentioned random? Who mentioned dynamite? What I'm suggesting is no more random than soldiers killing other soldiers in war. The purpose is to get the other poor dumb bastard to die for their ideology. Besides, there is no need for these operations to be a suicide. The lack of fear gives one a decided edge in dangerous situations which may actually increase survival rates. Along with that, most people care about either the afterlife form of immortality, or at least the reputation/legacy form of immortality. Even if you don't worry about lakes of fire and red guys with pitchforks, you might prefer not to have your family and friends humiliated and ashamed at the mention of your name. (Oh my God! That was *your* son? How do you live with that?) That's their problem. From my prespective its like Hollywood: as long as you still being talked about you're 'alive'. It doen't matter what they are saying. Better to be infamous down through history than unknown. ND
Re: Zombie Patriots and other musings
Nomen pondered: Why robbing banks? Aside from allowing the government to regulate them, what have they done to deserve being robbed Why not? Revolutionaries need money, and the financial sector has always been asshole buddies with the police, politicians, and other pigs.
RE: Zombie Patriots and other musings [was: Re: (No Subject)]
LEO John Kelsey whined: Well, I think for most terminal illnesses, by the time it's obvious you're really not going to live much longer, you're pretty damned sick. And until then, you'd probably like to make some personal use of what days or weeks you have left doing something like talking to your kids, praying, composing that last piece of music, etc., rather than blowing random strangers up to make some political point. You fucking twit -- who said anything about blowing up random strangers? Cops, fedzis, and other gov't creeps are the targets. Or is that it is just a little too close to home?
Re: Zombie Patriots and other musings
Anonymous wrote: Nomen pondered: Why robbing banks? Aside from allowing the government to regulate them, what have they done to deserve being robbed Why not? Revolutionaries need money, and the financial sector has always been asshole buddies with the police, politicians, and other pigs. Retarded. Someone trying to frame Mr. Seaver by adopting his three-space paragraph lead-ins.
Zombie Patriots and other musings [was: Re: (No Subject)]
From: J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Tue, 9 Dec 2003, Anatoly Vorobey wrote: On Tue, Dec 09, 2003 at 12:47:27AM +0100, edo wrote: With the USA becoming the world's most totalitarian state in disguise... That's a pretty silly thing to say. Sure you don't want to educate yourself on those other states in the world? It's not silly at all: look again. He said becoming. And it is. Fast. It's *long* past time for the inhabitants here to have taken up arms and blown holes in a *lot* of Federal heads. Just a few hundred dead federal goons, spread over a relatively short period (~6 months), where the attacks were obviously coordinated, made against officers enforcing particularly rancid unconstitutional laws (say the federal tax code), and without discoverable perpetrators, would result in an almost instantaneous shortage of officers available to enforce such uncontitutional laws - the survivors would simply refuse. Long fucking overdue. At first it seems that there isn't much one person or even a few can do about this, but I'm no longer so sure. The politics and power of government is, in the end, always dispensed from the end of a gun. For this reason very few citizens even consider contending with the government for political purposes until they fell there is little choice. Nothing less than a guerilla war seems necessary to restore something akin to the original constitutional balance in the U.S. But where to recruit these people? My suggestion: the terminally ill. Many TI come to the table with a 'gift', the certainty of impending death and for some the possibility of fearlessness for physical harm or imprisonment. While the majority of the TI will not see any reason to buck the system in their final days (ideological disagreement, fear for the effect on their families, lack the health, resources, skills or mentality for such a ' final adventure ') I did some back of the envelope calculations that show that more than 100 people die in the U.S. every day who could fill the bill. I've coined the term Zombie Patriots to signify the TI who volunteer to give their last full measure to the American Restoration. Operating alone or in small groups they could form the backbone of an American Civil Liberties Army. ZPs need an education in how to create a personal plan of action and acquire the needed skills and resources (Paladin Press where are you when we need you). A Domestic American Patriot Family Fund may also be desired.
RE: Zombie Patriots and other musings [was: Re: (No Subject)]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nothing less than a guerilla war seems necessary to restore something akin to the original constitutional balance in the U.S. But where to recruit these people? My suggestion: the terminally ill. Many TI come to the table with a 'gift', the certainty of impending death and for some the possibility of fearlessness for physical harm or imprisonment. Mr. Dumbass appears to be channeling the Earth Liberation Front: Quotes from: http://www.stopecoviolence.com/words.htm If I knew I had a fatal disease, I would definitely do something like strap dynamite on myself and take out Grand Canyon Dam. Or maybe the Maxxam Building in Los Angeles after it's closed up for the night. - Darryl Chernery, Northern California Earth Firster, CBS News Sixty Minutes, March 4, 1990 Are you terminally ill with a wasting disease? .Don't go out with a whimper; go out with a bang! Undertake an ecokamikaze mission. - Excerpt from an article that ran in the Sept. 1989 issue of the Earth First Journal, urging terminally ill activists to go on eco-kamikaze suicide missions Google on eco-kamikaze for more. It's worth noting that despite over a decade of this rhetoric, not a single terminally ill American has done this, so far as I am aware. The *only* even vaguely simlar cases I'm aware of are in India and Sri Lanka, where young Hindu widows (who, in traditional Hindu society have very dim prospects for a happy life) are recruited as suicide bombers by the Tamil Tigers. I think Rajiv Ghandi's assassin was such a woman. Peter Trei
