Bug#812127: login: wrong German error message

[Markus Hiereth]

Package: login
Version: 1:4.8.1-1
Followup-For: Bug #812127

Dear Maintainer,

besides working on the German po-file for the shadow project manual 
pages, this old bug in the Debian bug database caught my attention. It 
is really simple to fix.

I'm afraid the po file of my colleague of the German language team, 
Holger Wansing (message #52) has not been introduced in the sources 
because, according to message #57, the developers worked on the newer 
version 4.9. This would be sad.

I'm quite sure that Holgers message catalogue could be merged somehow 
with the current one.

To fix at least the reported bug without further delay, I attach a patch 
file.

Best regards
Markus



-- System Information: Debian Release: 11.5
  APT prefers stable-security
  APT policy: (500, 'stable-security'), (500, 'stable')
Architecture: i386 (i686)

Kernel: Linux 5.10.0-9-686-pae (SMP w/1 CPU thread)
Locale: LANG=de_DE.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=de_DE.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8), LANGUAGE not set
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Init: systemd (via /run/systemd/system)
LSM: AppArmor: enabled

Versions of packages login depends on:
ii  libaudit1   1:3.0-2
ii  libc6   2.32-4
ii  libcrypt1   1:4.4.18-4
ii  libpam-modules  1.4.0-9+deb11u1
ii  libpam-runtime  1.4.0-9+deb11u1
ii  libpam0g1.4.0-9+deb11u1

login recommends no packages.

login suggests no packages.

-- Configuration Files:
/etc/login.defs changed [not included]

-- no debconf information
--- shadow-4.8.1/po/de.po   2020-01-23 21:59:53.0 +0100
+++ shadow-4.8.1_mh/po/de.po2023-02-07 20:10:14.028953232 +0100
@@ -1620,7 +1620,7 @@
 
 #, c-format
 msgid "%s: Cannot possibly work without effective root\n"
-msgstr "%s: Arbeit ohne effektive root-Rechte eventuell nicht möglich\n"
+msgstr "%s: Arbeit ohne effektive root-Rechte unmöglich\n"
 
 msgid "No utmp entry.  You must exec \"login\" from the lowest level \"sh\""
 msgstr ""

Bug#812127: [Pkg-shadow-devel] Bug#812127: login: wrong German error message

[Bálint Réczey]

Control: tags -1 upstream l10n

Hi Holger,

I'm sorry for keeping this hanging for so long. I'm packaging 4.9 and
the translation has been updated upstream in the meantime:
https://github.com/shadow-maint/shadow/blob/master/po/de.po

Are the new strings OK, or do they still need updating?

Cheers,
Balint


Holger Wansing  ezt írta (időpont: 2017.
febr. 6., H, 22:12):
>
> Hi,
>
> Bálint Réczey  wrote:
> > >> > As stated, I (rather firmly) believe
> > >> >> Under no cirumstance work is possible without effective root.
> > >>
> > >> IMO this is the correct interpretation.
> > >>
> > >> The place where the message is emitted is here:
> > >> http://sources.debian.net/src/shadow/1:4.4-3/src/login.c/?hl=567#L567
> > >
> > > So you should probably change the phrase in English too, to ensure it
> > > is understood correctly? (Maybe other translators have misinterpreted it
> > > too?)
> >
> > The freeze is not a great time for making changes to the original strings. 
> > :-)
> > Let's defer the resolution of this bug after Stretch is released.
> >
> > Login may be provided by util-linux per #833256 and in that case I don't 
> > wan't
> > to ask l10n teams to update a string in every language before that string 
> > goes
> > away.
>
> Attached is an updated po file for German.
>
> I have applied the proposal by Helge, and updated the other fuzzies and
> untranslated strings as well.
>
>
> Probably you can still get it into Stretch ...
>
> So long
> Holger
>
> --
> 
> Created with Sylpheed 3.5.0 under
> D E B I A N   L I N U X   8 . 0   " J E S S I E " .
>
> Registered Linux User #311290 - https://linuxcounter.net/
> 
> ___
> Pkg-shadow-devel mailing list
> pkg-shadow-de...@lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pkg-shadow-devel

Bug#812127: login: wrong German error message

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

Bálint Réczey  wrote:
> >> > As stated, I (rather firmly) believe
> >> >> Under no cirumstance work is possible without effective root.
> >>
> >> IMO this is the correct interpretation.
> >>
> >> The place where the message is emitted is here:
> >> http://sources.debian.net/src/shadow/1:4.4-3/src/login.c/?hl=567#L567
> >
> > So you should probably change the phrase in English too, to ensure it
> > is understood correctly? (Maybe other translators have misinterpreted it
> > too?)
> 
> The freeze is not a great time for making changes to the original strings. :-)
> Let's defer the resolution of this bug after Stretch is released.
> 
> Login may be provided by util-linux per #833256 and in that case I don't wan't
> to ask l10n teams to update a string in every language before that string goes
> away.

Attached is an updated po file for German.

I have applied the proposal by Helge, and updated the other fuzzies and
untranslated strings as well.


Probably you can still get it into Stretch ...

So long
Holger

-- 

Created with Sylpheed 3.5.0 under
D E B I A N   L I N U X   8 . 0   " J E S S I E " .

Registered Linux User #311290 - https://linuxcounter.net/



de.po.gz
Description: application/gzip

Bug#812127: login: wrong German error message

[Bálint Réczey]

Hi Holger,

2017-02-06 20:12 GMT+01:00 Holger Wansing :
> Hi,
>
> Bálint Réczey  wrote:
>> Hi Helge,
>>
>> 2017-01-21 17:15 GMT+01:00 Helge Kreutzmann :
>> > Hello Holger,
>> > On Sat, Jan 21, 2017 at 11:41:43AM +0100, Holger Wansing wrote:
>> >> Helge Kreutzmann  wrote:
>> >> > On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 09:19:34PM +0100, Balint Reczey wrote:
>> >> > > My wife says the proposed solution does not sound good and I don't 
>> >> > > speak
>> >> > > German thus I can't make a decision here. :-)
>> >> >
>> >> > The incorrect translation is probably caused by a misunderstanding of
>> >> > the translator (I put him explicitly in CC).
>> >> >
>> >> > I believe you mean:
>> >> > Under no cirumstance work is possible without effective root.
>> >>
>> >> This means, the english version is incorrect too, right?
>> >> Since in english it says "Cannot possibly work ...", and that means
>> >> something like "möglicherweise" or "eventuell" or "unter Umständen".
>> >
>> > No. In this place »possibly« does not mean »perhaps«. It rather means
>> > »at all«.
>> >
>> > This is, if the text was produced by a good or native speaker. Thus my
>> > uncertainty.
>> >
>> >> What do you think, is the correct english meaning, which is intended here?
>> >
>> > As stated, I (rather firmly) believe
>> >> Under no cirumstance work is possible without effective root.
>>
>> IMO this is the correct interpretation.
>>
>> The place where the message is emitted is here:
>> http://sources.debian.net/src/shadow/1:4.4-3/src/login.c/?hl=567#L567
>
> So you should probably change the phrase in English too, to ensure it
> is understood correctly? (Maybe other translators have misinterpreted it
> too?)

The freeze is not a great time for making changes to the original strings. :-)
Let's defer the resolution of this bug after Stretch is released.

Login may be provided by util-linux per #833256 and in that case I don't wan't
to ask l10n teams to update a string in every language before that string goes
away.

Cheers,
Balint

Bug#812127: login: wrong German error message

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

Bálint Réczey  wrote:
> Hi Helge,
> 
> 2017-01-21 17:15 GMT+01:00 Helge Kreutzmann :
> > Hello Holger,
> > On Sat, Jan 21, 2017 at 11:41:43AM +0100, Holger Wansing wrote:
> >> Helge Kreutzmann  wrote:
> >> > On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 09:19:34PM +0100, Balint Reczey wrote:
> >> > > My wife says the proposed solution does not sound good and I don't 
> >> > > speak
> >> > > German thus I can't make a decision here. :-)
> >> >
> >> > The incorrect translation is probably caused by a misunderstanding of
> >> > the translator (I put him explicitly in CC).
> >> >
> >> > I believe you mean:
> >> > Under no cirumstance work is possible without effective root.
> >>
> >> This means, the english version is incorrect too, right?
> >> Since in english it says "Cannot possibly work ...", and that means
> >> something like "möglicherweise" or "eventuell" or "unter Umständen".
> >
> > No. In this place »possibly« does not mean »perhaps«. It rather means
> > »at all«.
> >
> > This is, if the text was produced by a good or native speaker. Thus my
> > uncertainty.
> >
> >> What do you think, is the correct english meaning, which is intended here?
> >
> > As stated, I (rather firmly) believe
> >> Under no cirumstance work is possible without effective root.
> 
> IMO this is the correct interpretation.
> 
> The place where the message is emitted is here:
> http://sources.debian.net/src/shadow/1:4.4-3/src/login.c/?hl=567#L567

So you should probably change the phrase in English too, to ensure it
is understood correctly? (Maybe other translators have misinterpreted it
too?)


Holger

-- 

Created with Sylpheed 3.5.0 under
D E B I A N   L I N U X   8 . 0   " J E S S I E " .

Registered Linux User #311290 - https://linuxcounter.net/

Bug#812127: login: wrong German error message

[Bálint Réczey]

Hi Helge,

2017-01-21 17:15 GMT+01:00 Helge Kreutzmann :
> Hello Holger,
> On Sat, Jan 21, 2017 at 11:41:43AM +0100, Holger Wansing wrote:
>> Helge Kreutzmann  wrote:
>> > On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 09:19:34PM +0100, Balint Reczey wrote:
>> > > My wife says the proposed solution does not sound good and I don't speak
>> > > German thus I can't make a decision here. :-)
>> >
>> > The incorrect translation is probably caused by a misunderstanding of
>> > the translator (I put him explicitly in CC).
>> >
>> > I believe you mean:
>> > Under no cirumstance work is possible without effective root.
>>
>> This means, the english version is incorrect too, right?
>> Since in english it says "Cannot possibly work ...", and that means
>> something like "möglicherweise" or "eventuell" or "unter Umständen".
>
> No. In this place »possibly« does not mean »perhaps«. It rather means
> »at all«.
>
> This is, if the text was produced by a good or native speaker. Thus my
> uncertainty.
>
>> What do you think, is the correct english meaning, which is intended here?
>
> As stated, I (rather firmly) believe
>> Under no cirumstance work is possible without effective root.

IMO this is the correct interpretation.

The place where the message is emitted is here:
http://sources.debian.net/src/shadow/1:4.4-3/src/login.c/?hl=567#L567

Cheers,
Balint

>
> But let's wait what Balint says.
>
> Greetings
>
>Helge
> --
>   Dr. Helge Kreutzmann deb...@helgefjell.de
>Dipl.-Phys.   http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php
> 64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred
>Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/

Bug#812127: login: wrong German error message

[Helge Kreutzmann]

Hello Holger,
On Sat, Jan 21, 2017 at 11:41:43AM +0100, Holger Wansing wrote:
> Helge Kreutzmann  wrote:
> > On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 09:19:34PM +0100, Balint Reczey wrote:
> > > My wife says the proposed solution does not sound good and I don't speak
> > > German thus I can't make a decision here. :-)
> > 
> > The incorrect translation is probably caused by a misunderstanding of
> > the translator (I put him explicitly in CC).
> > 
> > I believe you mean:
> > Under no cirumstance work is possible without effective root.
> 
> This means, the english version is incorrect too, right?
> Since in english it says "Cannot possibly work ...", and that means 
> something like "möglicherweise" or "eventuell" or "unter Umständen".

No. In this place »possibly« does not mean »perhaps«. It rather means
»at all«.

This is, if the text was produced by a good or native speaker. Thus my
uncertainty.

> What do you think, is the correct english meaning, which is intended here?

As stated, I (rather firmly) believe
> Under no cirumstance work is possible without effective root.

But let's wait what Balint says.

Greetings

   Helge
-- 
  Dr. Helge Kreutzmann deb...@helgefjell.de
   Dipl.-Phys.   http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php
64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred
   Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Bug#812127: login: wrong German error message

[Holger Wansing]

Hi,

Helge Kreutzmann  wrote:
> Hello Balint,
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 09:19:34PM +0100, Balint Reczey wrote:
> > Control: tags -1 help moreinfo
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 21:33:21 +0100 "B. Ruva"  wrote:
> > > Package: login
> > > Version: 1:4.2-3.1
> > > Severity: l10n
> > > 
> > > Dear Maintainer,
> > > 
> > > the following error message of 'login':
> > > 
> > > "Cannot possibly work without effective root"
> > > 
> > > is translated into German as:
> > > 
> > > "Arbeit ohne effektive root-Rechte eventuell nicht möglich"
> > > 
> > > This wrong and pretty misleading. It means something like:
> > > 
> > > "It is perhaps not possible to work without effective root"
> > > 
> > > I would translate the original error message as:
> > > 
> > > "Kann unmöglich ohne effektive root-Rechte arbeiten"
> > 
> > I need help here for sure.
> > 
> > My wife says the proposed solution does not sound good and I don't speak
> > German thus I can't make a decision here. :-)
> 
> The incorrect translation is probably caused by a misunderstanding of
> the translator (I put him explicitly in CC).
> 
> I believe you mean:
> Under no cirumstance work is possible without effective root.

This means, the english version is incorrect too, right?
Since in english it says "Cannot possibly work ...", and that means 
something like "möglicherweise" or "eventuell" or "unter Umständen".

What do you think, is the correct english meaning, which is intended here?


Holger

> 
> > Please someone from the l10n team take a look and review the translations.
> 
> Yes.
> 
> If my interpretation is correct, the translation suggested by me would
> be:
> 
> Arbeit ohne effektive root-Rechte keinesfalls möglich.
> 
> (The version of the submitter is possible as well, however, it is sub
> optimal based on the translation standards established on
> debian-l10n-german).



-- 

Created with Sylpheed 3.5.0 under
D E B I A N   L I N U X   8 . 0   " J E S S I E " .

Registered Linux User #311290 - https://linuxcounter.net/

Bug#812127: login: wrong German error message

[Christian Brauner]

So If I may weigh in as a native speaker. While

"Arbeit ohne effektive root-Rechte keinesfalls möglich."

as Helge suggested is possible it is still a little confusing.
I'd simply use

"Arbeit one effektive root-Recht nicht möglich."

the sassy spirit of "cannot possibly work without" won't be captured
by this but it is clearer and frankly, the "cannot possibly work without"
doesn't add a lot of value. :)

Christian

Bug#812127: login: wrong German error message

[Helge Kreutzmann]

Hello Balint,
On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 09:19:34PM +0100, Balint Reczey wrote:
> Control: tags -1 help moreinfo
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 21:33:21 +0100 "B. Ruva"  wrote:
> > Package: login
> > Version: 1:4.2-3.1
> > Severity: l10n
> > 
> > Dear Maintainer,
> > 
> > the following error message of 'login':
> > 
> > "Cannot possibly work without effective root"
> > 
> > is translated into German as:
> > 
> > "Arbeit ohne effektive root-Rechte eventuell nicht möglich"
> > 
> > This wrong and pretty misleading. It means something like:
> > 
> > "It is perhaps not possible to work without effective root"
> > 
> > I would translate the original error message as:
> > 
> > "Kann unmöglich ohne effektive root-Rechte arbeiten"
> 
> I need help here for sure.
> 
> My wife says the proposed solution does not sound good and I don't speak
> German thus I can't make a decision here. :-)

The incorrect translation is probably caused by a misunderstanding of
the translator (I put him explicitly in CC).

I believe you mean:
Under no cirumstance work is possible without effective root.

> Please someone from the l10n team take a look and review the translations.

Yes.

If my interpretation is correct, the translation suggested by me would
be:

Arbeit ohne effektive root-Rechte keinesfalls möglich.

(The version of the submitter is possible as well, however, it is sub
optimal based on the translation standards established on
debian-l10n-german).

Greetings

  Helge
-- 
  Dr. Helge Kreutzmann deb...@helgefjell.de
   Dipl.-Phys.   http://www.helgefjell.de/debian.php
64bit GNU powered gpg signed mail preferred
   Help keep free software "libre": http://www.ffii.de/


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Bug#812127: login: wrong German error message

[Balint Reczey]

Control: tags -1 help moreinfo

Hi,

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 21:33:21 +0100 "B. Ruva"  wrote:
> Package: login
> Version: 1:4.2-3.1
> Severity: l10n
> 
> Dear Maintainer,
> 
> the following error message of 'login':
> 
> "Cannot possibly work without effective root"
> 
> is translated into German as:
> 
> "Arbeit ohne effektive root-Rechte eventuell nicht möglich"
> 
> This wrong and pretty misleading. It means something like:
> 
> "It is perhaps not possible to work without effective root"
> 
> I would translate the original error message as:
> 
> "Kann unmöglich ohne effektive root-Rechte arbeiten"

I need help here for sure.

My wife says the proposed solution does not sound good and I don't speak
German thus I can't make a decision here. :-)

Please someone from the l10n team take a look and review the translations.

Cheers,
Balint

Bug#812127: login: wrong German error message

[B. Ruva]

Package: login
Version: 1:4.2-3.1
Severity: l10n

Dear Maintainer,

the following error message of 'login':

"Cannot possibly work without effective root"

is translated into German as:

"Arbeit ohne effektive root-Rechte eventuell nicht möglich"

This wrong and pretty misleading. It means something like:

"It is perhaps not possible to work without effective root"

I would translate the original error message as:

"Kann unmöglich ohne effektive root-Rechte arbeiten"


-- System Information:
Debian Release: 8.1
  APT prefers stable
  APT policy: (990, 'stable'), (500, 'stable-updates'), (500, 'testing')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 3.16.0-4-amd64 (SMP w/1 CPU core)
Locale: LANG=de_DE.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=de_DE.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash
Init: systemd (via /run/systemd/system)

Versions of packages login depends on:
ii  libaudit1   1:2.4-1+b1
ii  libc6   2.19-18
ii  libpam-modules  1.1.8-3.1
ii  libpam-runtime  1.1.8-3.1
ii  libpam0g1.1.8-3.1

login recommends no packages.

login suggests no packages.

-- no debconf information