[OT] Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 其实我觉得top-post更适合阅读，因为它在最上面，直接可以看到，不用用户去 翻页，是为当前使用邮件列表的用户考虑的。 bottum-post更适合存档，从上而下的讨论顺序在日后的查阅中更显得自然，更 多的为了检索考虑的。 如果大家都默认使用top-post，那么其实也没有什么问题。 thunderbird默认是用bottom-post的。 InfoHunter wrote: 发件人： WCM [EMAIL PROTECTED] 收件人： debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 已发送： 2008/5/24(周六), 上午10:38: 01 主题： Re: 回复： 回复： 回复： 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-* 2008/5/24 InfoHunter : OK，尝试了一下在底部回复。因为yahoo.cn目前无法使用客户端收发邮件，所 以只能调整成这样了。 不过我倒不觉得在顶部回复不好，我觉得这个事本来就存在争议，只是我比较 习惯在顶部回复而已，如果因为格式的事情而就不尊重他人 了，我倒是觉得有点过了。 引用： Li Daobing 提到两点只是友情提醒一下，他不可能每一条都帮您列出 来。如果是我，即使开始不理解，看到有人提到邮件礼 仪，也会赶快去Google一下。 我帮你Search 了一个： http://www.woodpecker.org.cn:9081/classes/050730-CPUG/usMaillist/ 非常感谢你的热心。 -- http://lovelywcm.blogspot.com ___ 雅虎邮箱，您的 终生邮箱！ http://cn.mail.yahoo.com/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIOhwdJo9Njjkvy34RAnR3AJ9PSsOaJ1W00xzJT6Eg4BmgEceeEACbBqBd 5s8V8Rm97N11EDrNdYRmN14= =J4F3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
On May 23, 2008, at 10:19 AM, cathayan wrote: 2008/5/23 Lawrence Li [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 关于繁简之争，我倒有一个想法。每次发文同时发繁 简两版如何？我不知道 Debian 上有没有现成的转换工 具，应该不会没有吧。设定一个快捷键，每次发信 Ctrl C, Ctrl V, 选中文字, 按下转码快捷键，四个步骤就 完成了。 關於繁簡之爭，我倒有一個想法。每次發文同時發繁 簡兩版如何？我不知道 Debian 上有沒有現成的轉換工 具，應該不會沒有吧。設定一個快捷鍵，每次發信 Ctrl C, Ctrl V, 選中文字, 按下轉碼快捷鍵，四個步驟就 完成了。 Lawrence 这毫无必要。只是两种形体而已，又不是两种语言。 这两种体又不过是汉字历史上多种形体之二，没什么 不能接受的。 我意见和你一样。无奈版上有人对其中一种体意见十分 强烈。 基本上，繁简之争和 Mac / Windows、top-posting / bottom- posting 之争一样，属于极无聊但又极娱乐的争论之列。 好像每个讨论社群（mailing list, 论坛等等）时不时都会 来这么一下，君子不和又不同，然后还是各干各的事。 我意見和你一樣。無奈版上有人對其中一種體意見十分 強烈。 基本上，繁簡之爭和 Mac / Windows、top-posting / bottom- posting 之爭一樣，屬於極無聊但又極娛樂的爭論之列。 好像每個討論社群（mailing list, 論壇等等）時不時都會 來這麼一下，君子不和又不同，然後還是各干各的事。 Lawrence
Re: 回复： 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
在 2008-05-23五的 19:08 +0800，InfoHunter写道：
如果是因为有人看不惯简体中文活繁体中文而只能使用英语交流的话，那合并列表之后怎么办？
我认为，中文列表的使用者大多是中文用户，而在中文用户的列表里去说长篇的英文，是有些违背了这个邮件列表的初衷的。
现在就是在讨论“合并”这个问题，而不是普通的意见交流。同时发给两个邮件列
表{-gb,-big5}，而且双方都有自己的观点，所以采取中立形式。一般的讨论我都
是用中文的，请自行搜索我之前的邮件。
我认为讨论是为了妥协，而不是坚持己见陷入僵局。用英文是为了暂时不引起各位
持反对意见的朋友的更多异议。
Regards,
InfoHunter http://www.InfoHunter.cn
- 原始邮件
发件人： Deng Xiyue [EMAIL PROTECTED]
收件人： InfoHunter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
抄送： debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
已发送： 2008/5/22(周四), 下午10:41:16
主题： Re: 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
在 2008-05-22四的 20:47 +0800，InfoHunter写道：
你不会说汉语啊
因为有的朋友表示看不惯简体中文或繁体中文，所以采用相对中立的英文。如果看
不懂可以忽略，或者要求我用中文重发。我暂时不把此看作人身攻击，相信你也
没这个意思。
Regards,
InfoHunter http://www.InfoHunter.cn
- 原始邮件
发件人： Deng Xiyue [EMAIL PROTECTED]
收件人： debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org
已发送： 2008/5/21(周三), 下午9:08:05
主题： Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
Personally I'm in favor of the merge. And I agree the decision is
really hard to be done by democracy as there is lower activity on
traditional Chinese list, and we don't want to just move on and force
them go away.
I guess making -gb and -big5 as read-only lists that convert
debian-chinese@ mails to corresponding flavors is an interesting idea as
someone already proposed. Just make it default to reply-to
debian-chinese@, and recommend using UTF-8 encodings, and then people
can just subscribe the converted lists. However, whenever a non-UTF-8
mail comes the convertion may fail, so the viability still require
further discussion. But that gives a preliminary thought to solve the
current divergence.
Though both pros and cons exist, I hope it won't be critical obstacles.
Regards,
Deng Xiyue
___
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Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
這個話題的持續時間還真不是一般地長啊。呵呵，其實應該看到合並的好處是 大大的。UTF－8只是一種編碼方式，真正的顯示出來，還是要看用戶端的程序 問題的。所以，大可不必在這上面過於計較了。 至於有人提議的新開一個郵件列表的方式，我認為大可不必了，太浪費資源了。 還有人提議進行類似於同文堂的計劃，好像也沒有必要，實在是勞心勞力工作 量太大了，可能偶爾做個一兩次 GB BIG5 的轉換還沒有什麼，但要別人 長期這麼做，天天這麼做，好像過份了點吧？ 就這麼多意見，大家繼續吧 ;-) Regards, G
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
补充： 5. 是否合并无所谓，甚至反对讨论这类话题。 �a充： 5. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008/5/23 Lawrence Li [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On May 23, 2008, at 10:19 AM, cathayan wrote: 2008/5/23 Lawrence Li [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 关于繁简之争，我倒有一个想法。每次发文同时发繁简两版如何？我不知道 Debian 上有没有现成的转换工具，应该不会没有吧。设定一个快捷键，每次发信 Ctrl C, Ctrl V, 选中文字, 按下转码快捷键，四个步骤就完成了。 �P於繁��之��，我倒有一��想法。每次�l文同�r�l繁���砂嫒绾危课也恢�道 Debian 上有�]有�F成的�D�Q工具，不���]有吧。�O定一��快捷�I，每次�l信 Ctrl C, Ctrl V, �x中文字, 按下�D�a快捷�I，四��步�E就完成了。 Lawrence 这毫无必要。只是两种形体而已，又不是两种语言。这两种体又不过是汉字历史上多种形体之二，没什么不能接受的。 我意见和你一样。无奈版上有人对其中一种体意见十分强烈。 基本上，繁简之争和 Mac / Windows、top-posting / bottom-posting 之争一样，属于极无聊但又极娱乐的争论之列。好像每个讨论社群（mailing list, 论坛等等）时不时都会来这么一下，君子不和又不同，然后还是各干各的事。 我意��和你一�印��o奈版上有人�ζ渲幸环N�w意��十分��烈。 基本上，繁��之��和 Mac / Windows、top-posting / bottom-posting 之��一�樱��凫��O�o聊但又�O���返�之列。好像每��社群（mailing list, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lawrence
Re: 回复： 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
2008/5/23 InfoHunter [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 如果像你所说，那我是否也有在非中文列表里说中文的自由？ 汗，你不同意人家第一条建议，那其它两条[1]总该遵守下吧？ 建议先了解下邮件列表礼仪，您不是在论坛发言。 [1] 2. 请尽量在底部回复而不是在顶部 3. 请调整你的邮件客户端设置，尽量不要破坏 threads -- http://lovelywcm.blogspot.com
Re: 回复： 回复： 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
在 2008-05-23五的 19:50 +0800，InfoHunter写道：
我不认为在邮件列表合并的这个问题上应该妥协什么，相反，我认为应该去发现更多的问题然后看看能不能很好的解决，这才是讨论的目的。
我的意思是，大家在讨论“合并”这个问题的时候都用自己习惯的中文，简体或者是繁体，让大家都了解一下这种混合的中文列表自己是否能很好的适应，这样才可以让我们真正的知道合并简体/繁体中文列表是否真的可行、是否是个成熟的方案。如果使用中文之外的语言讨论合并的事情的话，那这本身就是对矛盾的回避。如果真合并成功了，那这些被回避掉的矛盾都会成为隐患的。
如果真因为在讨论期间“引起各位持反对意见的朋友的更多异议”而使方案流产，那也不见得是件坏事，至少说明目前进行邮件列表合并的时机还不成熟或者说没有找到一个合理、可行的方案。
如果是这样，你应该简单的回帖说“我反对合并”，明确的表明你的观点。而不是和
我纠缠是不是该使用英文，甚至采用近似人身攻击的方式。
Regards,
InfoHunter http://www.InfoHunter.cn
- 原始邮件
发件人： Deng Xiyue [EMAIL PROTECTED]
收件人： InfoHunter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
抄送： debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
已发送： 2008/5/23(周五), 下午7:18:00
主题： Re: 回复： 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
在 2008-05-23五的 19:08 +0800，InfoHunter写道：
如果是因为有人看不惯简体中文活繁体中文而只能使用英语交流的话，那合并列表之后怎么办？
我认为，中文列表的使用者大多是中文用户，而在中文用户的列表里去说长篇的英文，是有些违背了这个邮件列表的初衷的。
现在就是在讨论“合并”这个问题，而不是普通的意见交流。同时发给两个邮件列
表{-gb,-big5}，而且双方都有自己的观点，所以采取中立形式。一般的讨论我都
是用中文的，请自行搜索我之前的邮件。
我认为讨论是为了妥协，而不是坚持己见陷入僵局。用英文是为了暂时不引起各位
持反对意见的朋友的更多异议。
Regards,
InfoHunter http://www.InfoHunter.cn
- 原始邮件
发件人： Deng Xiyue [EMAIL PROTECTED]
收件人： InfoHunter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
抄送： debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
已发送： 2008/5/22(周四), 下午10:41:16
主题： Re: 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
在 2008-05-22四的 20:47 +0800，InfoHunter写道：
你不会说汉语啊
因为有的朋友表示看不惯简体中文或繁体中文，所以采用相对中立的英文。如果看
不懂可以忽略，或者要求我用中文重发。我暂时不把此看作人身攻击，相信你也
没这个意思。
Regards,
InfoHunter http://www.InfoHunter.cn
- 原始邮件
发件人： Deng Xiyue [EMAIL PROTECTED]
收件人： debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org
已发送： 2008/5/21(周三), 下午9:08:05
主题： Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
Personally I'm in favor of the merge. And I agree the decision is
really hard to be done by democracy as there is lower activity on
traditional Chinese list, and we don't want to just move on and force
them go away.
I guess making -gb and -big5 as read-only lists that convert
debian-chinese@ mails to corresponding flavors is an interesting idea as
someone already proposed. Just make it default to reply-to
debian-chinese@, and recommend using UTF-8 encodings, and then people
can just subscribe the converted lists. However, whenever a non-UTF-8
mail comes the convertion may fail, so the viability still require
further discussion. But that gives a preliminary thought to solve the
current divergence.
Though both pros and cons exist, I hope it won't be critical obstacles.
Regards,
Deng Xiyue
___
雅虎邮箱，您的终生邮箱！
http://cn.mail.yahoo.com/
___
雅虎邮箱，您的终生邮箱！
http://cn.mail.yahoo.com/
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
回复： 回复： 回复： 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
人身攻击？？
Regards,
InfoHunter http://www.InfoHunter.cn
- 原始邮件
发件人： Deng Xiyue [EMAIL PROTECTED]
收件人： InfoHunter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
抄送： debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
已发送： 2008/5/23(周五), 下午10:41:03
主题： Re: 回复： 回复： 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
在 2008-05-23五的 19:50 +0800，InfoHunter写道：
我不认为在邮件列表合并的这个问题上应该妥协什么，相反，我认为应该去发现更多的问题然后看看能不能很好的解决，这才是讨论的目的。
我的意思是，大家在讨论“合并”这个问题的时候都用自己习惯的中文，简体或者是繁体，让大家都了解一下这种混合的中文列表自己是否能很好的适应，这样才可以让我们真正的知道合并简体/繁体中文列表是否真的可行、是否是个成熟的方案。如果使用中文之外的语言讨论合并的事情的话，那这本身就是对矛盾的回避。如果真合并成功了，那这些被回避掉的矛盾都会成为隐患的。
如果真因为在讨论期间“引起各位持反对意见的朋友的更多异议”而使方案流产，那也不见得是件坏事，至少说明目前进行邮件列表合并的时机还不成熟或者说没有找到一个合理、可行的方案。
如果是这样，你应该简单的回帖说“我反对合并”，明确的表明你的观点。而不是和
我纠缠是不是该使用英文，甚至采用近似人身攻击的方式。
Regards,
InfoHunter http://www.InfoHunter.cn
- 原始邮件
发件人： Deng Xiyue [EMAIL PROTECTED]
收件人： InfoHunter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
抄送： debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
已发送： 2008/5/23(周五), 下午7:18:00
主题： Re: 回复： 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
在 2008-05-23五的 19:08 +0800，InfoHunter写道：
如果是因为有人看不惯简体中文活繁体中文而只能使用英语交流的话，那合并列表之后怎么办？
我认为，中文列表的使用者大多是中文用户，而在中文用户的列表里去说长篇的英文，是有些违背了这个邮件列表的初衷的。
现在就是在讨论“合并”这个问题，而不是普通的意见交流。同时发给两个邮件列
表{-gb,-big5}，而且双方都有自己的观点，所以采取中立形式。一般的讨论我都
是用中文的，请自行搜索我之前的邮件。
我认为讨论是为了妥协，而不是坚持己见陷入僵局。用英文是为了暂时不引起各位
持反对意见的朋友的更多异议。
Regards,
InfoHunter http://www.InfoHunter.cn
- 原始邮件
发件人： Deng Xiyue [EMAIL PROTECTED]
收件人： InfoHunter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
抄送： debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
已发送： 2008/5/22(周四), 下午10:41:16
主题： Re: 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
在 2008-05-22四的 20:47 +0800，InfoHunter写道：
你不会说汉语啊
因为有的朋友表示看不惯简体中文或繁体中文，所以采用相对中立的英文。如果看
不懂可以忽略，或者要求我用中文重发。我暂时不把此看作人身攻击，相信你也
没这个意思。
Regards,
InfoHunter http://www.InfoHunter.cn
- 原始邮件
发件人： Deng Xiyue [EMAIL PROTECTED]
收件人： debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org
已发送： 2008/5/21(周三), 下午9:08:05
主题： Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
Personally I'm in favor of the merge. And I agree the decision is
really hard to be done by democracy as there is lower activity on
traditional Chinese list, and we don't want to just move on and force
them go away.
I guess making -gb and -big5 as read-only lists that convert
debian-chinese@ mails to corresponding flavors is an interesting idea as
someone already proposed. Just make it default to reply-to
debian-chinese@, and recommend using UTF-8 encodings, and then people
can just subscribe the converted lists. However, whenever a non-UTF-8
mail comes the convertion may fail, so the viability still require
further discussion. But that gives a preliminary thought to solve the
current divergence.
Though both pros and cons exist, I hope it won't be critical obstacles.
Regards,
Deng Xiyue
___
雅虎邮箱，您的终生邮箱！
http://cn.mail.yahoo.com/
___
雅虎邮箱，您的终生邮箱！
http://cn.mail.yahoo.com/
___
雅虎邮箱，您的终生邮箱！
http://cn.mail.yahoo.com/
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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回复： 回复： 回复： 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
另外，我什么时候说过反对合并了？？我的意思是顺其自然，没有必要通过回避矛盾来达成共识
Regards,
InfoHunter http://www.InfoHunter.cn
- 原始邮件
发件人： Deng Xiyue [EMAIL PROTECTED]
收件人： InfoHunter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
抄送： debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
已发送： 2008/5/23(周五), 下午10:41:03
主题： Re: 回复： 回复： 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
在 2008-05-23五的 19:50 +0800，InfoHunter写道：
我不认为在邮件列表合并的这个问题上应该妥协什么，相反，我认为应该去发现更多的问题然后看看能不能很好的解决，这才是讨论的目的。
我的意思是，大家在讨论“合并”这个问题的时候都用自己习惯的中文，简体或者是繁体，让大家都了解一下这种混合的中文列表自己是否能很好的适应，这样才可以让我们真正的知道合并简体/繁体中文列表是否真的可行、是否是个成熟的方案。如果使用中文之外的语言讨论合并的事情的话，那这本身就是对矛盾的回避。如果真合并成功了，那这些被回避掉的矛盾都会成为隐患的。
如果真因为在讨论期间“引起各位持反对意见的朋友的更多异议”而使方案流产，那也不见得是件坏事，至少说明目前进行邮件列表合并的时机还不成熟或者说没有找到一个合理、可行的方案。
如果是这样，你应该简单的回帖说“我反对合并”，明确的表明你的观点。而不是和
我纠缠是不是该使用英文，甚至采用近似人身攻击的方式。
Regards,
InfoHunter http://www.InfoHunter.cn
- 原始邮件
发件人： Deng Xiyue [EMAIL PROTECTED]
收件人： InfoHunter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
抄送： debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
已发送： 2008/5/23(周五), 下午7:18:00
主题： Re: 回复： 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
在 2008-05-23五的 19:08 +0800，InfoHunter写道：
如果是因为有人看不惯简体中文活繁体中文而只能使用英语交流的话，那合并列表之后怎么办？
我认为，中文列表的使用者大多是中文用户，而在中文用户的列表里去说长篇的英文，是有些违背了这个邮件列表的初衷的。
现在就是在讨论“合并”这个问题，而不是普通的意见交流。同时发给两个邮件列
表{-gb,-big5}，而且双方都有自己的观点，所以采取中立形式。一般的讨论我都
是用中文的，请自行搜索我之前的邮件。
我认为讨论是为了妥协，而不是坚持己见陷入僵局。用英文是为了暂时不引起各位
持反对意见的朋友的更多异议。
Regards,
InfoHunter http://www.InfoHunter.cn
- 原始邮件
发件人： Deng Xiyue [EMAIL PROTECTED]
收件人： InfoHunter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
抄送： debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
已发送： 2008/5/22(周四), 下午10:41:16
主题： Re: 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
在 2008-05-22四的 20:47 +0800，InfoHunter写道：
你不会说汉语啊
因为有的朋友表示看不惯简体中文或繁体中文，所以采用相对中立的英文。如果看
不懂可以忽略，或者要求我用中文重发。我暂时不把此看作人身攻击，相信你也
没这个意思。
Regards,
InfoHunter http://www.InfoHunter.cn
- 原始邮件
发件人： Deng Xiyue [EMAIL PROTECTED]
收件人： debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org
已发送： 2008/5/21(周三), 下午9:08:05
主题： Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
Personally I'm in favor of the merge. And I agree the decision is
really hard to be done by democracy as there is lower activity on
traditional Chinese list, and we don't want to just move on and force
them go away.
I guess making -gb and -big5 as read-only lists that convert
debian-chinese@ mails to corresponding flavors is an interesting idea as
someone already proposed. Just make it default to reply-to
debian-chinese@, and recommend using UTF-8 encodings, and then people
can just subscribe the converted lists. However, whenever a non-UTF-8
mail comes the convertion may fail, so the viability still require
further discussion. But that gives a preliminary thought to solve the
current divergence.
Though both pros and cons exist, I hope it won't be critical obstacles.
Regards,
Deng Xiyue
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回复： 回复： 回复： 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
- 原始邮件
发件人： WCM [EMAIL PROTECTED]
收件人： InfoHunter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
已发送： 2008/5/24(周六), 上午12:30:04
主题： Re: 回复： 回复： 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
2008/5/23 InfoHunter :
恩，你说的很有道理。不过遗憾的是在底部回复这个似乎不是强制要求的吧。
您看看您邮件的格式[1]吧，请问您自己看着不难受么？
要知道，您的每封邮件都会直接送到我们的桌面，不论我们正在工作、学习还是做其它的事情；要知道很多人在使用很多不同种类的客户端。尊重他人也是尊重自己。
Li Daobing 提到两点只是友情提醒一下，他不可能每一条都帮您列出来。如果是我，即使开始不理解，看到有人提到邮件礼仪，也会赶快去Google一下。
希望这个列表能带给我们知识和友谊，如果要争论的话，国内的很多论坛比这热闹多了。
有人指出自己的不足，是件幸福和幸运的事情，让我们都大气点：）。
OK，尝试了一下在底部回复。因为yahoo.cn目前无法使用客户端收发邮件，所以只能调整成这样了。
不过我倒不觉得在顶部回复不好，我觉得这个事本来就存在争议，只是我比较习惯在顶部回复而已，如果因为格式的事情而就“不尊重他人”了，我倒是觉得有点过了。
[1]以下为复制：
——
subject回复： 回复： 回复： 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
Reply
另外，我什么时候说过反对合并了？？我的意思是顺其自然，没有必要通过回避矛盾来达成共识
Regards,
InfoHunter http://www.InfoHunter.cn
- 原始邮件
发件人： Deng Xiyue
收件人： InfoHunter
抄送： debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
已发送： 2008/5/23(周五), 下午10:41:03
主题： Re: 回复： 回复： 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
在 2008-05-23五的 19:50 +0800，InfoHunter写道：
我不认为在邮件列表合并的这个问题上应该妥协什么，相反，我认为应该去发现更多的问题然后看看能不能很好的解决，这才是讨论的目的。
我的意思是，大家在讨论合并这个问题的时候都用自己习惯的中文，简体或者是繁体，让大家都了解一下这种混合的中文列表自己是否能很好的适应，这样才可以让我们真正的知道合并简体/繁体中文列表是否真的可行、是否是个成熟的方案。如果使用中文之外的语言讨论合并的事情的话，那这本身就是对矛盾的回避。如果真合并成功了，那这些被回避掉的矛盾都会成为隐患的。
如果真因为在讨论期间引起各位持反对意见的朋友的更多异议而使方案流产，那也不见得是件坏事，至少说明目前进行邮件列表合并的时机还不成熟或者说没有找到一个合理、可行的方案。
如果是这样，你应该简单的回帖说我反对合并，明确的表明你的观点。而不是和
我纠缠是不是该使用英文，甚至采用近似人身攻击的方式。
Regards,
InfoHunter http://www.InfoHunter.cn
- 原始邮件
发件人： Deng Xiyue
收件人： InfoHunter
抄送： debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
已发送： 2008/5/23(周五), 下午7:18:00
主题： Re: 回复： 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
在 2008-05-23五的 19:08 +0800，InfoHunter写道：
如果是因为有人看不惯简体中文活繁体中文而只能使用英语交流的话，那合并列表之后怎么办？
我认为，中文列表的使用者大多是中文用户，而在中文用户的列表里去说长篇的英文，是有些违背了这个邮件列表的初衷的。
现在就是在讨论合并这个问题，而不是普通的意见交流。同时发给两个邮件列
表{-gb,-big5}，而且双方都有自己的观点，所以采取中立形式。一般的讨论我都
是用中文的，请自行搜索我之前的邮件。
我认为讨论是为了妥协，而不是坚持己见陷入僵局。用英文是为了暂时不引起各位
持反对意见的朋友的更多异议。
Regards,
InfoHunter http://www.InfoHunter.cn
- 原始邮件
发件人： Deng Xiyue
收件人： InfoHunter
抄送： debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
已发送： 2008/5/22(周四), 下午10:41:16
主题： Re: 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
在 2008-05-22四的 20:47 +0800，InfoHunter写道：
你不会说汉语啊
因为有的朋友表示看不惯简体中文或繁体中文，所以采用相对中立的英文。如果看
不懂可以忽略，或者要求我用中文重发。我暂时不把此看作人身攻击，相信你也
没这个意思。
Regards,
InfoHunter http://www.InfoHunter.cn
- 原始邮件
发件人： Deng Xiyue
收件人： debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org
已发送： 2008/5/21(周三), 下午9:08:05
主题： Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
Personally I'm in favor of the merge. And I agree the decision is
really hard to be done by democracy as there is lower activity on
traditional Chinese list, and we don't want to just move on and force
them go away.
I guess making -gb and -big5 as read-only lists that convert
debian-chinese@ mails to corresponding flavors is an interesting idea as
someone already proposed. Just make it default to reply-to
debian-chinese@, and recommend using UTF-8 encodings, and then people
can just subscribe the converted lists. However, whenever a non-UTF-8
mail comes the convertion may fail, so the viability still require
further discussion. But that gives a preliminary thought to solve the
current divergence.
Though both pros and cons exist, I hope it won't be critical obstacles.
Regards,
Deng Xiyue
___
雅虎邮箱，您的终生邮箱！
http://cn.mail.yahoo.com/
___
雅虎邮箱，您的终生邮箱！
http://cn.mail.yahoo.com/
___
雅虎邮箱，您的终生邮箱！
http://cn.mail.yahoo.com/
___
雅虎邮箱，您的终生邮箱！
http://cn.mail.yahoo.com/
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Re: 回复： 回复： 回复： 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
在 2008-05-23五的 22:43 +0800，InfoHunter写道： 人身攻击？？ 在 2008-05-22四的 20:47 +0800，InfoHunter写道： 你不会说汉语啊 我认为这是挑衅的语气。大概每个人对中文的理解不同吧。 不过这件事情就此打住吧。我相信咱们都不想在这种没有意义的地方浪费时间。 但我认为，如果每个人按照自己的想法做，一点都不想接纳对方的意见，想达成共 识是不可能的。当然，每个人都有表达自己想法的自由。只要不采取过分的语言， 我会尊重。 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 回复： 回复： 回复： 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
2008/5/24 InfoHunter [EMAIL PROTECTED]: OK，尝试了一下在底部回复。因为yahoo.cn目前无法使用客户端收发邮件，所以只能调整成这样了。 不过我倒不觉得在顶部回复不好，我觉得这个事本来就存在争议，只是我比较习惯在顶部回复而已，如果因为格式的事情而就不尊重他人了，我倒是觉得有点过了。 引用： Li Daobing 提到两点只是友情提醒一下，他不可能每一条都帮您列出来。如果是我，即使开始不理解，看到有人提到邮件礼仪，也会赶快去Google一下。 我帮你Search 了一个： http://www.woodpecker.org.cn:9081/classes/050730-CPUG/usMaillist/ -- http://lovelywcm.blogspot.com
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
鉴于不少人对使用英文表示反对，我用简繁中文重新表达下我的看法。
好像有人提出过这个想法，我认为很好：可以考虑将
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 的邮件经过简繁转换分别发送给
debian-chinese-{gb,[EMAIL PROTECTED] ；将后者作为只读邮件列表，并
Reply-To [EMAIL PROTECTED] 。这样不习惯简体或繁体的用户可
以分别订阅 -gb 或 -big5 。虽然技术上可能会有一些困难，但应该可以解决。
总之我认为合并简繁体最大的意义在于增进中文用户之间的交流。至于技术上的问
题总会有解决的方案。
另： Google 的翻译工具可以很方便的做简繁体转换，不知是否可以利用。
鑑於不少人對使用英文表示反對，我用簡繁中文重新表達下我的看法。
好像有人提出過這個想法，我認為很好：可以考慮將debian-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
chinese-{gb,[EMAIL PROTECTED] ；將後者作為只讀郵件列表，並Reply-To
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 。這樣不習慣簡體或繁體的用戶可以分別訂
閱-gb或-big5 。雖然技術上可能會有一些困難，但應該可以解決。
總之我認為合併簡繁體最大的意義在於增進中文用戶之間的交流。至於技術上的問
題總會有解決的方案。
另： Google的翻譯工具可以很方便的做簡繁體轉換，不知是否可以利用。
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Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
個人反對這樣的作法。 中文雖然有繁簡體之分，可是基礎的文字架構和所需要的技術基本上非常相近。只是因為少數特定人無法閱讀簡體或是繁體而造成管理者以及訂閱者額外的負擔實在沒有必要。個人認為應該合併，並且不需要任何額外繁體或是簡體專用mailling list. Yours, Jouston 2008/5/21 Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 非常同意這些合併後的好處 只是小弟希望能夠另外開一個直接使用繁體以及簡體中文的 mail list 一樣可以達到同樣的效用 保留原本兩個分別使用繁體以及簡體中文的 mail list 讓使用者能夠自由選擇 提醒使用者如果有中文上共同相關的事務 post 到使用繁體以及簡體中文的 mail list 2008/5/21 Vern Sun [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 合并之后，所有 Debian 中文化方面的工作(po、d-i、debconf、手册、网页)都可以共用 一个通信地址。无论是官方更新的通知，还是私人工作的提交，共用同一个通信地址，有 利于提高中文化的工作效率。 -- Vern 2008-05-21 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFINAjjvybwk5cXSZERAmJiAJ9FQRMCS3LqCoTaW6S+y16Uhk9REACdHcTd yseJpplkddwFWiS3RM2YJ3c= =T/tG -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Linuxer Jouston http://jouston.no-ip.com Email/MSN: jouston(AT)jouston.no-ip.com ICQ:12274031 Wagaly Talk number: 070-707-014 Skype me: jouston IRC(Freenode/Debian): jouston
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
既然如此，当初为什么要分开创立？好奇问一把。 2008/5/22 Jouston Huang [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 中文�m然有繁���w之分，可是基�A的文字架��和所需要的技�g基本上非常相近。只是因�樯��堤囟ㄈ��o法���x���w或是繁�w而造成管理者以及者�~外的��在�]有必要。��人�J��合�悖��K且不需要任何�~外繁�w或是���w�Ｓ�mailling list. Yours, Jouston 2008/5/21 Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 只是小弟希望能�蛄硗忾_一��直接使用繁�w以及���w中文的 mail list 一�涌梢赃_到同�拥男в� 保留原本分�e使用繁�w以及���w中文的 mail list ��使用者能�蜃杂蛇x�� 提醒使用者如果有中文上共同相�P的事�� post 到使用繁�w以及���w中文的 mail list 2008/5/21 Vern Sun [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 合并之后，所有 Debian 中文化方面的工作(po、d-i、debconf、手册、网页)都可以共用 一个通信地址。无论是官方更新的通知，还是私人工作的提交，共用同一个通信地址，有 利于提高中文化的工作效率。 -- Vern 2008-05-21 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFINAjjvybwk5cXSZERAmJiAJ9FQRMCS3LqCoTaW6S+y16Uhk9REACdHcTd yseJpplkddwFWiS3RM2YJ3c= =T/tG -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Linuxer Jouston http://jouston.no-ip.com Email/MSN: jouston(AT)jouston.no-ip.com ICQ:12274031 Wagaly Talk number: 070-707-014 Skype me: jouston IRC(Freenode/Debian): jouston
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
估计是UTF-8的问题吧，创立的时候，大陆是GB2312，台湾是BIG5，编码混乱，只 能看一边阿。 Yufeng Lan 写道: 既然如此，当初为什么要分开创立？好奇问一把。 2008/5/22 Jouston Huang [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 中文�m然有繁���w之分，可是基�A的文字架��和所需要的技�g基本上非常相 近。只是因�樯��堤囟ㄈ��o法���x���w或是繁�w而造成管理者以及者�~ 外的��在�]有必要。��人�J��合�悖��K且不需要任何�~外繁�w或是 ���w�Ｓ�mailling list. Yours, Jouston 2008/5/21 Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 只是小弟希望能�蛄硗忾_一��直接使用繁�w以及���w中文的 mail list 一�涌梢赃_到同�拥男в� 保留原本分�e使用繁�w以及���w中文的 mail list ��使用者能�蜃� 由�x�� 提醒使用者如果有中文上共同相�P的事�� post 到使用繁�w以及���w中文 的 mail list 2008/5/21 Vern Sun [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: 合并之后，所有 Debian 中文化方面的工作(po、d-i、debconf、手册、 网页)都可以共用 一个通信地址。无论是官方更新的通知，还是私人工作的提交，共用同 一个通信地址，有 利于提高中文化的工作效率。 -- Vern 2008-05-21 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFINAjjvybwk5cXSZERAmJiAJ9FQRMCS3LqCoTaW6S+y16Uhk9REACdHcTd yseJpplkddwFWiS3RM2YJ3c= =T/tG -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Linuxer Jouston http://jouston.no-ip.com Email/MSN: jouston(AT)jouston.no-ip.com http://jouston.no-ip.com ICQ:12274031 Wagaly Talk number: 070-707-014 Skype me: jouston IRC(Freenode/Debian): jouston -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
2008/5/22 InfoHunter [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 你不会说汉语啊 1. 他有在这个列表说英文的自由 2. 请尽量在底部回复而不是在顶部 3. 请调整你的邮件客户端设置，尽量不要破坏 threads -- Best Regards, LI Daobing
Re: 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
2008/5/22 InfoHunter [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 你不会说汉语啊 1. 他有在这个列表说英文的自由 2. 请尽量在底部回复而不是在顶部 3. 请调整你的邮件客户端设置，尽量不要破坏 threads -- Best Regards, LI Daobing
Re: 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
2008/5/22 LI Daobing (李道兵) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 2008/5/22 InfoHunter [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 你不会说汉语啊 1. 他有在这个列表说英文的自由 2. 请尽量在底部回复而不是在顶部 3. 请调整你的邮件客户端设置，尽量不要破坏 threads 网络有点卡，不小心发了两封，抱歉。 -- Best Regards, LI Daobing
Re: 回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
在 2008-05-22四的 20:47 +0800，InfoHunter写道： 你不会说汉语啊 因为有的朋友表示看不惯简体中文或繁体中文，所以采用相对中立的英文。如果看 不懂可以忽略，或者要求我用中文重发。我暂时不把此看作人身攻击，相信你也 没这个意思。 Regards, InfoHunter http://www.InfoHunter.cn - 原始邮件 发件人： Deng Xiyue [EMAIL PROTECTED] 收件人： debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org 已发送： 2008/5/21(周三), 下午9:08:05 主题： Re: User support for the debian-chinese-* Personally I'm in favor of the merge. And I agree the decision is really hard to be done by democracy as there is lower activity on traditional Chinese list, and we don't want to just move on and force them go away. I guess making -gb and -big5 as read-only lists that convert debian-chinese@ mails to corresponding flavors is an interesting idea as someone already proposed. Just make it default to reply-to debian-chinese@, and recommend using UTF-8 encodings, and then people can just subscribe the converted lists. However, whenever a non-UTF-8 mail comes the convertion may fail, so the viability still require further discussion. But that gives a preliminary thought to solve the current divergence. Though both pros and cons exist, I hope it won't be critical obstacles. Regards, Deng Xiyue -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
关于繁简之争，我倒有一个想法。每次发文同时发繁简两版如何？我不知 道 Debian 上有没有现成的转换工具，应该不会没有吧。设定一 个快捷键，每次发信 Ctrl C, Ctrl V, 选中 文字, 按下转码快捷键，四个步骤就完成了。 關於繁簡之爭，我倒有一個想法。每次發文同時發繁簡兩版如何？我不知 道 Debian 上有沒有現成的轉換工具，應該不會沒有吧。設定一 個快捷鍵，每次發信 Ctrl C, Ctrl V, 選中 文字, 按下轉碼快捷鍵，四個步驟就完成了。 Lawrence
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
2008/5/23 Lawrence Li [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 关于繁简之争，我倒有一个想法。每次发文同时发繁简两版如何？我不知道 Debian 上有没有现成的转换工具，应该不会没有吧。设定一个快捷键，每次发信 Ctrl C, Ctrl V, 选中文字, 按下转码快捷键，四个步骤就完成了。 關於繁簡之爭，我倒有一個想法。每次發文同時發繁簡兩版如何？我不知道 Debian 上有沒有現成的轉換工具，應該不會沒有吧。設定一個快捷鍵，每次發信 Ctrl C, Ctrl V, 選中文字, 按下轉碼快捷鍵，四個步驟就完成了。 Lawrence 这毫无必要。只是两种形体而已，又不是两种语言。这两种体又不过是汉字历史上多种形体之二，没什么不能接受的。 -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://blog.cathayan.org
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
君子周而不比。 这么说孔夫子应该是支持合并 ：） lish
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
我得澄清一下，我是CC到debian-chinese-gb的，至於你�f是寄到你的信箱，我的�_不知情，但你一口咬定我只寄�o了你而�]有CC到debian-chinese-gb的行�樽�我�δ愕淖运叫��楦�加���海�因�槟闶且���只�樽约憾��z毫不��及周��的人，必要�r��能��著眼睛�f�e。 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:P 2008/5/21 Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Rex,
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
2008/5/21 li xin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 我得澄清一下，我是CC到debian-chinese-gb的，至於你�f是寄到你的信箱，我的�_不知情，但你一口咬定我只寄�o了你而�]有CC到debian-chinese-gb的行�樽�我�δ愕淖运叫��楦�加���海�因�槟闶且���只�樽约憾��z毫不��及周��的人，必要�r��能��著眼睛�f�e。 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:P 2008/5/21 Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Rex, OMG, we are talking about User support for the debian-chinese-*, gentleman. I agreed with the merging because of the low traffic, and we can understand both GB2312/BIG5 encoded mails in my personal view. :) -- FIXME if it is wrong.
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
Cantoraz Zhou 写道: 支持合并,不必转换,大家都是有一点点文化的人,识字(不论繁简)总该不是问题吧. 我们能接受同一封邮件里中英文混排,为什么不能接受同一邮件列表中不同邮件的繁简汉字共存呢? en 支持合并，繁就繁，简就简，不变，只是合并而已。编码建议用utf-8 如果没有办法能让所有人满意，就只能委屈一些有些挑剔的同学了 我个人感觉繁简都能看的人，要比只能看繁或简的人要多些，因此得出以上结论。 如果我的判断有错误，请见谅 -- Keep In Touch! Electronics Engineering Department, Tsinghua University Dorm Tel: 8610 5153 4319 Mobile: 86 13401088180 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
li xin, 老實說我一直在等待你的回應. :) 不然我不會一直跟 Rex 爭執 請大家看看 http://lists.debian.org/debian-chinese-gb/2008/05/threads.html 上面 li xin 到底有沒有 CC 到 debian-chinese-gb 再來看看 li xin 這次的回應 相信明眼人一定看得出來是誰心虛在說謊了~ 我真的非常感謝你出來還我一個清白~ 非常感謝你~ ^_^ 2008/5/21 li xin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 我得澄清一下，我是CC到debian-chinese-gb的，至於你說是寄到你的信箱，我的確不知情，但你一口咬定我只寄給了你而沒有CC到debian-chinese-gb的行為讓我對你的自私行為更加厭惡，因為你是一個只為自己而絲毫不顧及周圍的人，必要時還能睜著眼睛說謊。 現在大家討論的問題是如何將debian-chinese建設得更好，給大家更優秀的交流平臺，我無意將不相關的討論引入進來，如果你對我不滿可以私下寄信給我，在這個討論裏面我不想再回復你的挑釁言論，因為將討論轉移到無關話題說不定就是你所希望的呢~我可不想上當:P 2008/5/21 Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Rex,
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
哦~我看了下，的确是的，应该是我在选择发送收件人的时候犯了错误，是我使用gmail不熟所致，我可以向你道歉，但你的自私言论仍然让我讨厌。 另外，我们私下讨论好么？我不想让无关话题喧宾夺主。 2008/5/21 Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: li xin, 老���f我一直在等待你的回��. :) 不然我不��一直跟 Rex ��大家看看 http://lists.debian.org/debian-chinese-gb/2008/05/threads.html 上面 li xin 到底有�]有 CC 到 debian-chinese-gb 再�砜纯� li xin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 相信明眼人一定看得出�硎钦l心��在�f�e了~ 我真的非常感�x你出�磉�我一��清白~ 非常感�x你~ ^_^ 2008/5/21 li xin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 我得澄清一下，我是CC到debian-chinese-gb的，至於你�f是寄到你的信箱，我的�_不知情，但你一口咬定我只寄�o了你而�]有CC到debian-chinese-gb的行�樽�我�δ愕淖运叫��楦�加���海�因�槟闶且���只�樽约憾��z毫不��及周��的人，必要�r��能��著眼睛�f�e。 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:P 2008/5/21 Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Rex,
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
合并之后，所有 Debian 中文化方面的工作(po、d-i、debconf、手册、网页)都可以共用 一个通信地址。无论是官方更新的通知，还是私人工作的提交，共用同一个通信地址，有 利于提高中文化的工作效率。 -- Vern 2008-05-21 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
Personally I'm in favor of the merge. And I agree the decision is really hard to be done by democracy as there is lower activity on traditional Chinese list, and we don't want to just move on and force them go away. I guess making -gb and -big5 as read-only lists that convert debian-chinese@ mails to corresponding flavors is an interesting idea as someone already proposed. Just make it default to reply-to debian-chinese@, and recommend using UTF-8 encodings, and then people can just subscribe the converted lists. However, whenever a non-UTF-8 mail comes the convertion may fail, so the viability still require further discussion. But that gives a preliminary thought to solve the current divergence. Though both pros and cons exist, I hope it won't be critical obstacles. Regards, Deng Xiyue -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 只是小弟希望能�蛄硗忾_一��直接使用繁�w以及���w中文的 mail list 一�涌梢赃_到同�拥男в� 保留原本分�e使用繁�w以及���w中文的 mail list ��使用者能�蜃杂蛇x�� 提醒使用者如果有中文上共同相�P的事�� post 到使用繁�w以及���w中文的 mail list 2008/5/21 Vern Sun [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 合并之后，所有 Debian 中文化方面的工作(po、d-i、debconf、手册、网页)都可以共用 一个通信地址。无论是官方更新的通知，还是私人工作的提交，共用同一个通信地址，有 利于提高中文化的工作效率。 -- Vern 2008-05-21 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFINAjjvybwk5cXSZERAmJiAJ9FQRMCS3LqCoTaW6S+y16Uhk9REACdHcTd yseJpplkddwFWiS3RM2YJ3c= =T/tG -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
如果簡體繁體合并再開一個 繁體mailist的使用者會很少吧 http://lists.debian.org/debian-chinese-big5/2008/02/threads.html 2008年2月才 3封郵件 *http://lists.debian.org/debian-chinese-big5/2008/03/threads.html* 2008年3月不過10封 2008/5/21 Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 非常同意這些合併後的好處 只是小弟希望能夠另外開一個直接使用繁體以及簡體中文的 mail list 一樣可以達到同樣的效用 保留原本兩個分別使用繁體以及簡體中文的 mail list 讓使用者能夠自由選擇 提醒使用者如果有中文上共同相關的事務 post 到使用繁體以及簡體中文的 mail list 2008/5/21 Vern Sun [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 合并之后，所有 Debian 中文化方面的工作(po、d-i、debconf、手册、网页)都可以共用 一个通信地址。无论是官方更新的通知，还是私人工作的提交，共用同一个通信地址，有 利于提高中文化的工作效率。 -- Vern 2008-05-21 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFINAjjvybwk5cXSZERAmJiAJ9FQRMCS3LqCoTaW6S+y16Uhk9REACdHcTd yseJpplkddwFWiS3RM2YJ3c= =T/tG -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Life Is Full of Choices
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
抱歉延迟回复，我想鼓励大家都订使用utf8的统一中文用户列表，但是我担心有历史遗留问题（前面有的邮件谈到技术、文化、个人偏好上的困难），同时考虑到保存一个多样化的中文环境，简单的办法就是保留历史（ 至少50年不变:) )，当然这要看社区资源是否允许这么浪费，其实喜欢纯简体和繁体的用户也可以设立邮件列表（反正g00g1e等免费提供，他们自己可以选举管理员，我也希望将来加入这些特殊的讨论组）。 订阅2－3个邮件列表对我不是麻烦，我个人没问题。 不限语言，只要是想在华人世界讨论，什么语言都包容，包括维吾尔、藏文、德语、俄语、火星文、骇客语，这也是UTF8的优势。不然又有人或组织会抗议文化灭绝了。我们在某些文化问题上还是要注意，资源允许的条件下尽量包容，这对我们的社区有好处。 大家都提了不少好的建议，我个人非常高兴看到这么多好的点子。 2008/5/19 Zhan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: why, just so to have less users per list. if most users end up subscribe to all three, why not just merge them. 为什么，那样每个邮件列表上的人会更少。估计很多人会订阅两三个，为什么不直接合并。 不限语言？我希望中文列表上还是看中文好。英文勉强接受，至少大家懂。其它的还是不要了。 On Mon, 19 May 2008 15:50:57 +0800, Yufeng Lan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 同意，保持繁体的继续生存。 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 默认用utf8，不限语言，当然用户大部分是华人。 其他保持原状不变，一国3码。 On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear All, My opinion is to reopen [EMAIL PROTECTED] to use utf8 or to open another mailing list, named as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Keep debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org and [EMAIL PROTECTED] for their local users. Then use traditional chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED] and use simplified chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use both of traditional and simplified chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED]/[EMAIL PROTECTED] $4 2008/5/19 Rex Tsai [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 This is interesting, this thread is probably one of the most active in last couple months. :-) My option is to merge these two mailing list. Even though the list is most helping Debian users solve their problems, and users feel more comfortable when using the characters they can read. But there are already many local user group[1] set up online forum for helping out the users, which makes the mission of these two mailing lists marginal. Some people would say Debian is doing very good on supporting Chinese. But it does not mean we can stop the mailing list. Still, there are many decisions need to be made for the new packages and releases. And both encodings/languages communities are sharing these results of these decisions, since we are sharing the basically infrastructures for fonts, input method, configurations. The mailing list is the right place to submit Chinese-related suggestions, which is the place that Debian Developers can discuss and work together. A boundary of mailing encodings will make this kind of discussions difficult. And most of the modern softwares support big5/gb2312/unicode without problems, people can easily read the messages or translate the encodings by themselves. There is not need to split the mailing lists by encodings. best regards - -Rex 1. http://www.chinalinuxpub.com/bbs/forumdisplay.php?f=73 http://www.debsir.org/ http://www.linuxsir.org/bbs/ http://moto.debian.org.tw/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIMP4YOl4Wbdx2/rkRAj7jAJ4y0kY+E6yvtuF7jlXi68+zD2MvhgCeM/cs yhlu39HZHLJecoRuiEG5xTk= =Csn6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- regards, Zhan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
big5和gb编码共存不是问题吧，maillist在这方面好像也不会有问题，由于大家使用的邮件客户端不同，所以为了方便没有必要强制改用utf-8编码吧。使用少数民族语言我认为是会影响阅读理解的，debian的讨论我想按语言分就好，而没有必要按所谓国家、民族分。个人认为交流方便是最重要的，编码可能解决了传输问题，但不能解决人理解不了不同民族语言的问题。 所以我个人的观点是：虽然支持简繁邮件列表的合并，但认为不必要使用UTF-8，也不需在这个汉语邮件列表中合并入非汉语的少数民族文字。如果少数民族朋友确有需要，可以去相应语言的讨论区，或讨论申请新的列表。 2008/5/21 Yufeng Lan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 抱歉延迟回复，我想鼓励大家都订使用utf8的统一中文用户列表，但是我担心有历史遗留问题（前面有的邮件谈到技术、文化、个人偏好上的困难），同时考虑到保存一个多样化的中文环境，简单的办法就是保留历史（ 至少50年不变:) )，当然这要看社区资源是否允许这么浪费，其实喜欢纯简体和繁体的用户也可以设立邮件列表（反正g00g1e等免费提供，他们自己可以选举管理员，我也希望将来加入这些特殊的讨论组）。 订阅2－3个邮件列表对我不是麻烦，我个人没问题。 不限语言，只要是想在华人世界讨论，什么语言都包容，包括维吾尔、藏文、德语、俄语、火星文、骇客语，这也是UTF8的优势。不然又有人或组织会抗议文化灭绝了。我们在某些文化问题上还是要注意，资源允许的条件下尽量包容，这对我们的社区有好处。 大家都提了不少好的建议，我个人非常高兴看到这么多好的点子。 2008/5/19 Zhan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: why, just so to have less users per list. if most users end up subscribe to all three, why not just merge them. 为什么，那样每个邮件列表上的人会更少。估计很多人会订阅两三个，为什么不直接合并。 不限语言？我希望中文列表上还是看中文好。英文勉强接受，至少大家懂。其它的还是不要了。 On Mon, 19 May 2008 15:50:57 +0800, Yufeng Lan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 同意，保持繁体的继续生存。 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 默认用utf8，不限语言，当然用户大部分是华人。 其他保持原状不变，一国3码。 On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear All, My opinion is to reopen [EMAIL PROTECTED] to use utf8 or to open another mailing list, named as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Keep debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org and [EMAIL PROTECTED] for their local users. Then use traditional chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED] and use simplified chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use both of traditional and simplified chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED]/[EMAIL PROTECTED] $4 2008/5/19 Rex Tsai [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 This is interesting, this thread is probably one of the most active in last couple months. :-) My option is to merge these two mailing list. Even though the list is most helping Debian users solve their problems, and users feel more comfortable when using the characters they can read. But there are already many local user group[1] set up online forum for helping out the users, which makes the mission of these two mailing lists marginal. Some people would say Debian is doing very good on supporting Chinese. But it does not mean we can stop the mailing list. Still, there are many decisions need to be made for the new packages and releases. And both encodings/languages communities are sharing these results of these decisions, since we are sharing the basically infrastructures for fonts, input method, configurations. The mailing list is the right place to submit Chinese-related suggestions, which is the place that Debian Developers can discuss and work together. A boundary of mailing encodings will make this kind of discussions difficult. And most of the modern softwares support big5/gb2312/unicode without problems, people can easily read the messages or translate the encodings by themselves. There is not need to split the mailing lists by encodings. best regards - -Rex 1. http://www.chinalinuxpub.com/bbs/forumdisplay.php?f=73 http://www.debsir.org/ http://www.linuxsir.org/bbs/ http://moto.debian.org.tw/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIMP4YOl4Wbdx2/rkRAj7jAJ4y0kY+E6yvtuF7jlXi68+zD2MvhgCeM/cs yhlu39HZHLJecoRuiEG5xTk= =Csn6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- regards, Zhan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- 以Wiki模式创建Linux中文文档，欢迎加入 http://www.linux-wiki.cn/
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
没说强制，只是推荐使用统一码的utf-8方案，以便让计算机兼容处理其它语言文字，至于用户是否使用中文，我个人不在乎；由于技术问题不能使用utf-8的，用户有自由使用其它编码，或者即使使用utf-8，却加密只给看得懂的某些人看（和debian/debian-chinese相关主题），或者使用罕见的术语。 既积极使用公开的开放标准，又支持老用户和旧的使用方式，这是最好的发展方向，不是么？ 的确，debian-chinese应该主要使用中文，但是也有特殊情况使用其它语言文字的，我只是强调这是unicode的特点之一，不是说鼓励大家使用非中文，或使用中文讨论非debian/debian-chinese相关话题。 我们讨论的不是技术问题，而是一个列表管理问题，没必要太过分讨论技术的细微末节，即： 1. 是否合并gb和big5列表? 2. 如果合并，列表是否自动进行简繁中文转换？并评估技术难度和需求。 3. 如果合并，是否保留原有的gb/big5列表? 4. 如果不合并，是否创建新的邮件列表？ 谢谢分享你的意见。 2008/5/22 Copacabunny [EMAIL PROTECTED]: big5和gb编码共存不是问题吧，maillist在这方面好像也不会有问题，由于大家使用的邮件客户端不同，所以为了方便没有必要强制改用utf-8编码吧。使用少数民族语言我认为是会影响阅读理解的，debian的讨论我想按语言分就好，而没有必要按所谓国家、民族分。个人认为交流方便是最重要的，编码可能解决了传输问题，但不能解决人理解不了不同民族语言的问题。 所以我个人的观点是：虽然支持简繁邮件列表的合并，但认为不必要使用UTF-8，也不需在这个汉语邮件列表中合并入非汉语的少数民族文字。如果少数民族朋友确有需要，可以去相应语言的讨论区，或讨论申请新的列表。 2008/5/21 Yufeng Lan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 抱歉延迟回复，我想鼓励大家都订使用utf8的统一中文用户列表，但是我担心有历史遗留问题（前面有的邮件谈到技术、文化、个人偏好上的困难），同时考虑到保存一个多样化的中文环境，简单的办法就是保留历史（ 至少50年不变:) )，当然这要看社区资源是否允许这么浪费，其实喜欢纯简体和繁体的用户也可以设立邮件列表（反正g00g1e等免费提供，他们自己可以选举管理员，我也希望将来加入这些特殊的讨论组）。 订阅2－3个邮件列表对我不是麻烦，我个人没问题。 不限语言，只要是想在华人世界讨论，什么语言都包容，包括维吾尔、藏文、德语、俄语、火星文、骇客语，这也是UTF8的优势。不然又有人或组织会抗议文化灭绝了。我们在某些文化问题上还是要注意，资源允许的条件下尽量包容，这对我们的社区有好处。 大家都提了不少好的建议，我个人非常高兴看到这么多好的点子。 2008/5/19 Zhan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: why, just so to have less users per list. if most users end up subscribe to all three, why not just merge them. 为什么，那样每个邮件列表上的人会更少。估计很多人会订阅两三个，为什么不直接合并。 不限语言？我希望中文列表上还是看中文好。英文勉强接受，至少大家懂。其它的还是不要了。 On Mon, 19 May 2008 15:50:57 +0800, Yufeng Lan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 同意，保持繁体的继续生存。 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 默认用utf8，不限语言，当然用户大部分是华人。 其他保持原状不变，一国3码。 On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear All, My opinion is to reopen [EMAIL PROTECTED] to use utf8 or to open another mailing list, named as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Keep debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org and [EMAIL PROTECTED] for their local users. Then use traditional chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED] and use simplified chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use both of traditional and simplified chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED]/[EMAIL PROTECTED] $4 2008/5/19 Rex Tsai [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 This is interesting, this thread is probably one of the most active in last couple months. :-) My option is to merge these two mailing list. Even though the list is most helping Debian users solve their problems, and users feel more comfortable when using the characters they can read. But there are already many local user group[1] set up online forum for helping out the users, which makes the mission of these two mailing lists marginal. Some people would say Debian is doing very good on supporting Chinese. But it does not mean we can stop the mailing list. Still, there are many decisions need to be made for the new packages and releases. And both encodings/languages communities are sharing these results of these decisions, since we are sharing the basically infrastructures for fonts, input method, configurations. The mailing list is the right place to submit Chinese-related suggestions, which is the place that Debian Developers can discuss and work together. A boundary of mailing encodings will make this kind of discussions difficult. And most of the modern softwares support big5/gb2312/unicode without problems, people can easily read the messages or translate the encodings by themselves. There is not need to split the mailing lists by encodings. best regards - -Rex 1. http://www.chinalinuxpub.com/bbs/forumdisplay.php?f=73 http://www.debsir.org/ http://www.linuxsir.org/bbs/ http://moto.debian.org.tw/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIMP4YOl4Wbdx2/rkRAj7jAJ4y0kY+E6yvtuF7jlXi68+zD2MvhgCeM/cs yhlu39HZHLJecoRuiEG5xTk= =Csn6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- regards, Zhan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- 以Wiki模式创建Linux中文文档，欢迎加入 http://www.linux-wiki.cn/
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 We are not discuss about encoding. We are discuss about whether merge traditional chinese and simple chinese or not. Yufeng Lan wrote: 没说强制，只是推荐使用统一码的utf-8方案，以便让计算机兼容处理其它语言文 字，至于用户是否使用中文，我个人不在乎；由于技术问题不能使 用utf-8的，用户有自由使用其它编码，或者即使使用utf-8，却加密只给看得懂 的某些人看（和debian/debian- chinese相关主题），或者使用罕见的术语。 既积极使用公开的开放标准，又支 持老用户和旧的使用方式，这是最好的发展方向，不是么？ 的确，debian-chinese应该主要使用中文，但是也有特殊情况使用其它语言文字 的，我只是强调这是unicode的特点之一，不是说 鼓励大家使用非中文，或使用中文讨论非debian/debian-chinese相关话题。 我们讨论的不是技术问题，而是一个列表管理问题，没必要太过分讨论技术的细 微末节，即： 1. 是否合并gb和big5列表? 2. 如果合 并，列表是否自动进行简繁中文转换？并评估技术难度和需求。 3. 如果合并， 是否保留原有的gb/big5列表? 4. 如果不合并，是否创 建新的邮件列表？ 谢谢分享你的意见。 2008/5/22 Copacabunny [EMAIL PROTECTED]: big5和gb编码共存不是问题吧，maillist在这方面好像也不会有问题，由于大家 使用的邮件客户端不同，所以为了方便没有必要强制 改用utf-8编码吧。使用少数民族语言我认为是会影响阅读理解的，debian的讨 论我想按语言分就好，而没有必要按所谓国家、民族分。 个人认为交流方便是最重要的，编码可能解决了传输问题，但不能解决人理解不 了不同民族语言的问题。 所以我个人的观点是：虽然支持简繁邮件列表的合并，但认为不必要使用UTF- 8，也不需在这个汉语邮件列表中合并入非汉语的少数民族文字。 如果少数民族朋友确有需要，可以去相应语言的讨论区，或讨论申请新的列表。 2008/5/21 Yufeng Lan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 抱歉延迟回复，我想鼓励大家 都订使用utf8 的统一中文用户列表，但是我担心有历史遗留问题（前面有的邮件谈到技术、文 化、个人偏好上的困难），同时考虑到保存一个多样化的中文环境， 简单的办法就是保留历史（ 至少50年不变:) )，当然这要看社区资源是否允许这么浪费，其实喜欢纯简体和繁体的用户 也可以设立邮件列表（反正g00g1e等免费提供，他们自己 可以选举管理员，我也希望将来加入这些特殊的讨论组）。 订阅2－3个邮件列表对我不是麻烦，我个人没问题。 不限语言，只要是想在华人世界讨论，什么语言都包容，包括维吾尔、藏文、德 语、俄语、火星文、骇客语，这也是UTF8的优势。不然又有人或 组织会抗议文化灭绝了。我们在某些文化问题上还是要注意，资源允许的条件下 尽量包容，这对我们的社区有好处。 大家都提了不少好的建议，我个人非常高兴看到这么多好的点子。 2008/5/19 Zhan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: why, just so to have less users per list. if most users end up subscribe to all three, why not just merge them. 为什么，那样每个邮件列表上的人会更少。估计很多人会订阅两三个，为什么 不直接合并。 不限语言？我希望中文列表上还是看中文好。英文勉强接受，至少大家懂。其 它的还是不要了。 On Mon, 19 May 2008 15:50:57 +0800, Yufeng Lan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 同意，保持繁体的继续生存。 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 默认用 utf8，不限语言， 当然用户大部分是华人。 其他保持原状不变，一国3码。 On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear All, My opinion is to reopen [EMAIL PROTECTED] to use utf8 or to open another mailing list, named as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Keep debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org and [EMAIL PROTECTED] for their local users. Then use traditional chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED] and use simplified chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use both of traditional and simplified chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED]/[EMAIL PROTECTED] $4 2008/5/19 Rex Tsai [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 This is interesting, this thread is probably one of the most active in last couple months. :-) My option is to merge these two mailing list. Even though the list is most helping Debian users solve their problems, and users feel more comfortable when using the characters they can read. But there are already many local user group[1] set up online forum for helping out the users, which makes the mission of these two mailing lists marginal. Some people would say Debian is doing very good on supporting Chinese. But it does not mean we can stop the mailing list. Still, there are many decisions need to be made for the new packages and releases. And both encodings/languages communities are sharing these results of these decisions, since we are sharing the basically infrastructures for fonts, input method, configurations. The mailing list is the right place to submit Chinese-related suggestions, which is the place that Debian Developers can discuss and work together. A boundary of mailing encodings will make this kind of discussions difficult. And most of the modern softwares support big5/gb2312/unicode without problems, people can easily read the messages or translate the encodings by themselves. There is not need to split the mailing lists by encodings. best regards - -Rex 1. http://www.chinalinuxpub.com/bbs/forumdisplay.php?f=73 http://www.debsir.org/ http://www.linuxsir.org/bbs/ http://moto.debian.org.tw/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIMP4YOl4Wbdx2/rkRAj7jAJ4y0kY+E6yvtuF7jlXi68+zD2MvhgCeM/cs yhlu39HZHLJecoRuiEG5xTk= =Csn6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- regards, Zhan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- 以Wiki模式创建Linux中文文档，欢迎加入 http://www.linux-wiki.cn/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFINQP8Jo9Njjkvy34RAvi6AJ4mRsbXNBPe1mUTL6u5HDm+q4buawCguOwo fAlDBLkZqY0GtHq6KFovMN8= =lIx3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
I find that you use wrong debian-chinese-gb so I reply again to include correction debian-chinese-gb address. 2008/5/21 Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dear Rex, [英文先寫的不過放在底下] [English below] 我認為你誤解了我原來的意思 讓我再用英文翻譯一次 小弟習慣看繁體字 - I am used to read traditional chinese. 在閱讀簡體字上有困難 - I have difficulty to read simplified chinese. 因此反對合併 - Thus I am opposed to merging debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one. 我只是不習慣看簡體字跟我的個人喜好無關 還有 li xin 直接寄了一封郵件到我的郵件位址並沒有 CC 給 debian-chinese-big5 或是 debian-chinese-gb 我認為 li xin 對我的態度很不友善所以我回覆他的信件並且 CC 到 debian-chinese-big5 還有 debian-chinese-gb 我並非是討厭簡體中文. 我只是討厭 li xin 單獨地寄了一封不友善的訊息給我. [開始寫英文] [English begin] I think you misunderstand my original meaning. Allow me to translate my first reply in English. 小弟習慣看繁體字 - I am used to read traditional chinese. 在閱讀簡體字上有困難 - I have difficulty to read simplified chinese. 因此反對合併 - Thus I am opposed to merging debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one. I am just not used to read simplified chinese that is not relative to my personal favorite. And li xin send a mail directly to my personal email address but not CC to debian-chinese-big5 or debian-chinese-gb. I think li xin has an unfriendly attitude to me so I reply li xin's email and CC to debian-chinese-big5 or debian-chinese-gb. I am not to dislike simplified chinese. I just DON'T LIKE li xin to solely send me an unfriendly message. 2008/5/21 Rex Tsai [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 本文以英文撰寫，為了溝通方便，特翻譯成中文 四元, 我們理解你不愛讀簡體字，但是你的論述除了自私的表達自己的偏好外，並沒有 任何論點。更糟的是，你甚至在論壇上回應愚蠢的挑釁。那種行為對此議題毫無幫 助。請不要再犯。 我相信我們可以針對此議題達成共識。各位都有權提供你寶貴的意見到論壇上， 但是請明確表達你的訴求。至於那種宣告支持或反對的單行覆議，就請免了。 關於此議題 我認為目前的社群是不健康的。 我指的是我們在兩種編碼群體中，有幾位 Debian 開發者與貢獻者。他們大部分 都彼此認識，他們私底下對話、討論、工作並攜手解決問題。這種共事合作非常 好。但是，我鮮少看到公開的討論。 問題在於資訊沒有流通到社群的其他人 * 有些決議沒有尋求意見或審閱 * 某些決議過於偏頗，未能詢問另一編碼用戶意見以顧全大局。以至於難能建立 中文系統共用的基礎設計。 * 義工無法從私下對話中得到資訊，而分攤工作 (如偶發現即將發行，卻尚未翻 譯特定軟體) * 新加入者無法了解狀態，因為缺乏公開紀錄。 * 分散有限的資源，無所助益。 我可以列出一打該合併的理由。不過我可以馬上分享有一個最顯著的例子[1]。王 宗漢字型是一個台灣自由軟體相關研討會最重要的議題之一。這個問題在繁體中文 社群可以更輕易的被回答 (或找到人回答)，但是它被發佈在簡體論壇，因而被忽 視了。 這個問題可以透過合併論壇與雙方合作來避免。 1. http://lists.debian.org/debian-chinese-gb/2008/05/msg00018.html - FourDollars, We understand that you DON'T LIKE to read Simplified Chinese, but your message does not make any point besides that you are so selfish for your preference. And you even respond to the stupid challenge on the list, that make this thread unproductive. Please don't do it again. I am sure we can have the general agreement on this issues. Anyone of you could submit your valuable opinion on the list, but please send it with meaningful arguments. Please stop express support or opposition to something someone else has already said. For the topic, I feel that we are currently have a unhealthy community. I meant that we have a few debian developers and contributors in two 'encodings' of group. And many of them know each others, they talk, discuss, work and solve problems with each other in private. Which can be good, because they work together. But, I rarely see they post the discussions on the list. The problem is the information is not passed to others in the community. * Some of the decisions are made without asking for review or ideas. * Some decisions are made without considering the overall situations, which we can not work out a general infrastructures for Chinese users. * People can not share the working loading, if the discussion is in private. Ex: No one translate the installer, before the new release. * New contributors can not follow the work, since the discussion is not archived. * Diversity of limited resources does not do any good. I can list dozen of reasons for merging the two list. But there is a obvious case[1] I can share with you. Hann-Tzong Wang's font is most active topic of open source conferences in Taiwan. The question is much easier to be answered by Taiwan users. But since it's post in debian-chinese-gb list, it can be just ignored. We can fix that by merging the list and work together. 1. http://lists.debian.org/debian-chinese-gb/2008/05/msg00018.html best regards - -Rex http://people.debian.org.tw/~chihchun/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIMwehOl4Wbdx2/rkRArAEAJ9bplFm/rfXm9bxhdQSBhE9Es65sACfZy/m eP92PADog30ikU8PH+ibQWM= =4pPB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
Rex, The original post is to ask the mailing list's users opinion. And I express my opinion. That's all. In fact, I have a idea about how to merge debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb. That is to use some tools like 同文堂 to translate from simplified chinese to traditional chinese in debian-traditional-chinese. And to translate from traditional chinese to simplified chinese in debian-simplified-chinese. We can see both original traditional and simplified chinese in debian-chinese. Users that can read traditional chinese to subscribe debian-traditional-chinese. Users that can read simplified chinese to subscribe debian-simplified-chinese. Users that can read both traditional and simplified chinese to subscribe debian-chinese. All posts can be exchanged in debian-chinese/debian-traditional-chinese/debian-simplified-chinese. Yeah, I am childish. I just want to express my angry on Li Xin's private email by posting yet another meaningless mail on the list. Afterward, if someone reply a private email with an unfriendly message according the mail list's subject, I will do the same thing again. So don't reply an unfriendly message in a private email according the mail list's subject to me, send the unfriendly message to mail list, let everyone see your unfriendly message. Express your unfriendly in public. 2008/5/21 Rex Tsai [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 FourDollars, I can not see why it's not related to your personal preference, because you keep talking about your feelings and your own difficulties. Please tell me why and how your feeling is so important, so all the others have to separate the two lists to make you happy ? Will you be happy, if we or me setup an translation gateway to translate the messages into Traditional Chinese for you? Or we can port 同文堂 to icedove together, I believe it can be easily done with your skills. And are we doing some kind of group therapy here ? Why did you have to expressing your angry on Li Xin's private email by posting yet another meaningless mail on the list ? If you feel better after all, could you please grow up and have mailing list etiquette ? regards - -Rex Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) wrote: Dear Rex, [英文先寫的不過放在底下] [English below] 我認為你誤解了我原來的意思 讓我再用英文翻譯一次 小弟習慣看繁體字 - I am used to read traditional chinese. 在閱讀簡體字上有困難 - I have difficulty to read simplified chinese. 因此反對合併 - Thus I am opposed to merging debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one. 我只是不習慣看簡體字跟我的個人喜好無關 還有 li xin 直接寄了一封郵件到我的郵件位址並沒有 CC 給 debian-chinese-big5 或是 debian-chinese-gb 我認為 li xin 對我的態度很不友善所以我回覆他的信件並且 CC 到 debian-chinese-big5 還有 debian-chinese-gb 我並非是討厭簡體中文. 我只是討厭 li xin 單獨地寄了一封不友善的訊息給我. [開始寫英文] [English begin] I think you misunderstand my original meaning. Allow me to translate my first reply in English. 小弟習慣看繁體字 - I am used to read traditional chinese. 在閱讀簡體字上有困難 - I have difficulty to read simplified chinese. 因此反對合併 - Thus I am opposed to merging debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one. I am just not used to read simplified chinese that is not relative to my personal favorite. And li xin send a mail directly to my personal email address but not CC to debian-chinese-big5 or debian-chinese-gb. I think li xin has an unfriendly attitude to me so I reply li xin's email and CC to debian-chinese-big5 or debian-chinese-gb. I am not to dislike simplified chinese. I just DON'T LIKE li xin to solely send me an unfriendly message. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIMx0pOl4Wbdx2/rkRAlq/AJ9R/9ez9OsbkltGZRTUE9M6w2dZjwCfR5K+ zLJwIXfL1P6yQXOCazwnV2A= =DXnG -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
FourDollars, I think you thought too much of it,about that unfriendly private email,it sounds to me just an unintentionally mistake.So let's drop it,back to the merging subject,ok? 2008/5/21 Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Rex, The original post is to ask the mailing list's users opinion. And I express my opinion. That's all. In fact, I have a idea about how to merge debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb. That is to use some tools like 同文堂 to translate from simplified chinese to traditional chinese in debian-traditional-chinese. And to translate from traditional chinese to simplified chinese in debian-simplified-chinese. We can see both original traditional and simplified chinese in debian-chinese. Users that can read traditional chinese to subscribe debian-traditional-chinese. Users that can read simplified chinese to subscribe debian-simplified-chinese. Users that can read both traditional and simplified chinese to subscribe debian-chinese. All posts can be exchanged in debian-chinese/debian-traditional-chinese/debian-simplified-chinese. Yeah, I am childish. I just want to express my angry on Li Xin's private email by posting yet another meaningless mail on the list. Afterward, if someone reply a private email with an unfriendly message according the mail list's subject, I will do the same thing again. So don't reply an unfriendly message in a private email according the mail list's subject to me, send the unfriendly message to mail list, let everyone see your unfriendly message. Express your unfriendly in public. 2008/5/21 Rex Tsai [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 FourDollars, I can not see why it's not related to your personal preference, because you keep talking about your feelings and your own difficulties. Please tell me why and how your feeling is so important, so all the others have to separate the two lists to make you happy ? Will you be happy, if we or me setup an translation gateway to translate the messages into Traditional Chinese for you? Or we can port 同文堂 to icedove together, I believe it can be easily done with your skills. And are we doing some kind of group therapy here ? Why did you have to expressing your angry on Li Xin's private email by posting yet another meaningless mail on the list ? If you feel better after all, could you please grow up and have mailing list etiquette ? regards - -Rex Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) wrote: Dear Rex, [英文先��的不�^放在底下] [English below] 我�J�槟阏`解了我原�淼囊馑� ��我再用英文翻�g一次 小弟���T看繁�w字 - I am used to read traditional chinese. 在���x���w字上有困�y - I have difficulty to read simplified chinese. 因此反��合�� - Thus I am opposed to merging debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one. 我只是不���T看���w字跟我的��人喜好�o�P ��有 li xin 直接寄了一封�]件到我的�]件位址�K�]有 CC �o debian-chinese-big5 或是 debian-chinese-gb 我�J�� li xin �ξ业��B度很不友善所以我回覆他的信件�K且 CC 到 debian-chinese-big5 ��有 debian-chinese-gb 我�K非是���w中文. 我只是 li xin �为�地寄了一封不友善的��息�o我. [�_始��英文] [English begin] I think you misunderstand my original meaning. Allow me to translate my first reply in English. 小弟���T看繁�w字 - I am used to read traditional chinese. 在���x���w字上有困�y - I have difficulty to read simplified chinese. 因此反��合�� - Thus I am opposed to merging debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one. I am just not used to read simplified chinese that is not relative to my personal favorite. And li xin send a mail directly to my personal email address but not CC to debian-chinese-big5 or debian-chinese-gb. I think li xin has an unfriendly attitude to me so I reply li xin's email and CC to debian-chinese-big5 or debian-chinese-gb. I am not to dislike simplified chinese. I just DON'T LIKE li xin to solely send me an unfriendly message. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIMx0pOl4Wbdx2/rkRAlq/AJ9R/9ez9OsbkltGZRTUE9M6w2dZjwCfR5K+ zLJwIXfL1P6yQXOCazwnV2A= =DXnG -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
li ethan, Sure. :) 2008/5/21 li ethan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: FourDollars, I think you thought too much of it,about that unfriendly private email,it sounds to me just an unintentionally mistake.So let's drop it,back to the merging subject,ok? 2008/5/21 Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Rex, The original post is to ask the mailing list's users opinion. And I express my opinion. That's all. In fact, I have a idea about how to merge debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb. That is to use some tools like 同文堂 to translate from simplified chinese to traditional chinese in debian-traditional-chinese. And to translate from traditional chinese to simplified chinese in debian-simplified-chinese. We can see both original traditional and simplified chinese in debian-chinese. Users that can read traditional chinese to subscribe debian-traditional-chinese. Users that can read simplified chinese to subscribe debian-simplified-chinese. Users that can read both traditional and simplified chinese to subscribe debian-chinese. All posts can be exchanged in debian-chinese/debian-traditional-chinese/debian-simplified-chinese. Yeah, I am childish. I just want to express my angry on Li Xin's private email by posting yet another meaningless mail on the list. Afterward, if someone reply a private email with an unfriendly message according the mail list's subject, I will do the same thing again. So don't reply an unfriendly message in a private email according the mail list's subject to me, send the unfriendly message to mail list, let everyone see your unfriendly message. Express your unfriendly in public. 2008/5/21 Rex Tsai [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 FourDollars, I can not see why it's not related to your personal preference, because you keep talking about your feelings and your own difficulties. Please tell me why and how your feeling is so important, so all the others have to separate the two lists to make you happy ? Will you be happy, if we or me setup an translation gateway to translate the messages into Traditional Chinese for you? Or we can port 同文堂 to icedove together, I believe it can be easily done with your skills. And are we doing some kind of group therapy here ? Why did you have to expressing your angry on Li Xin's private email by posting yet another meaningless mail on the list ? If you feel better after all, could you please grow up and have mailing list etiquette ? regards - -Rex Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) wrote: Dear Rex, [英文先寫的不過放在底下] [English below] 我認為你誤解了我原來的意思 讓我再用英文翻譯一次 小弟習慣看繁體字 - I am used to read traditional chinese. 在閱讀簡體字上有困難 - I have difficulty to read simplified chinese. 因此反對合併 - Thus I am opposed to merging debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one. 我只是不習慣看簡體字跟我的個人喜好無關 還有 li xin 直接寄了一封郵件到我的郵件位址並沒有 CC 給 debian-chinese-big5 或是 debian-chinese-gb 我認為 li xin 對我的態度很不友善所以我回覆他的信件並且 CC 到 debian-chinese-big5 還有 debian-chinese-gb 我並非是討厭簡體中文. 我只是討厭 li xin 單獨地寄了一封不友善的訊息給我. [開始寫英文] [English begin] I think you misunderstand my original meaning. Allow me to translate my first reply in English. 小弟習慣看繁體字 - I am used to read traditional chinese. 在閱讀簡體字上有困難 - I have difficulty to read simplified chinese. 因此反對合併 - Thus I am opposed to merging debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one. I am just not used to read simplified chinese that is not relative to my personal favorite. And li xin send a mail directly to my personal email address but not CC to debian-chinese-big5 or debian-chinese-gb. I think li xin has an unfriendly attitude to me so I reply li xin's email and CC to debian-chinese-big5 or debian-chinese-gb. I am not to dislike simplified chinese. I just DON'T LIKE li xin to solely send me an unfriendly message. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIMx0pOl4Wbdx2/rkRAlq/AJ9R/9ez9OsbkltGZRTUE9M6w2dZjwCfR5K+ zLJwIXfL1P6yQXOCazwnV2A= =DXnG -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 FourDollars, You are repeating yourself. IIRC, the two lists were forwarding mail to each other about 4 or 5 years ago. And the mail system translate the messages into different 'encodings' for the users. It's because at that moment, linux leaks good Unicode support. It's not because people like you prefer to read messages in Simplified Chinese or Traditional Chinese. It's done for helping people communicate with each other. Now, we got better Unicode support. Which means we can discuss the issues in general encoding, and our software can read it. Unless you are still using mail reader in CLI. The advantage of merging two lists, is that we can discuss the two writing system in same encoding. And don't need to worry about the symbols you want to say is broken by the translation gateway. Regarding to the suggestion you provided. Yes, I am sure we can do that, even through it can be difficult to set up the gateway in Debian's mail server. regards - -Rex Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) wrote: Rex, The original post is to ask the mailing list's users opinion. And I express my opinion. That's all. In fact, I have a idea about how to merge debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb. That is to use some tools like 同文堂 to translate from simplified chinese to traditional chinese in debian-traditional-chinese. And to translate from traditional chinese to simplified chinese in debian-simplified-chinese. We can see both original traditional and simplified chinese in debian-chinese. Users that can read traditional chinese to subscribe debian-traditional-chinese. Users that can read simplified chinese to subscribe debian-simplified-chinese. Users that can read both traditional and simplified chinese to subscribe debian-chinese. All posts can be exchanged in debian-chinese/debian-traditional-chinese/debian-simplified-chinese. Yeah, I am childish. I just want to express my angry on Li Xin's private email by posting yet another meaningless mail on the list. Afterward, if someone reply a private email with an unfriendly message according the mail list's subject, I will do the same thing again. So don't reply an unfriendly message in a private email according the mail list's subject to me, send the unfriendly message to mail list, let everyone see your unfriendly message. Express your unfriendly in public. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIM6j7Ol4Wbdx2/rkRAurKAJ0WhjI3K3WltLB43VSWrfH6YXMifwCfXRhd RE+VhMou8+YtZ4q8LYSiwS0= =YCRl -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
Dear All, My opinion is to reopen [EMAIL PROTECTED] to use utf8 or to open another mailing list, named as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Keep debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org and [EMAIL PROTECTED] for their local users. Then use traditional chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED] and use simplified chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use both of traditional and simplified chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED]/[EMAIL PROTECTED] $4 2008/5/19 Rex Tsai [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 This is interesting, this thread is probably one of the most active in last couple months. :-) My option is to merge these two mailing list. Even though the list is most helping Debian users solve their problems, and users feel more comfortable when using the characters they can read. But there are already many local user group[1] set up online forum for helping out the users, which makes the mission of these two mailing lists marginal. Some people would say Debian is doing very good on supporting Chinese. But it does not mean we can stop the mailing list. Still, there are many decisions need to be made for the new packages and releases. And both encodings/languages communities are sharing these results of these decisions, since we are sharing the basically infrastructures for fonts, input method, configurations. The mailing list is the right place to submit Chinese-related suggestions, which is the place that Debian Developers can discuss and work together. A boundary of mailing encodings will make this kind of discussions difficult. And most of the modern softwares support big5/gb2312/unicode without problems, people can easily read the messages or translate the encodings by themselves. There is not need to split the mailing lists by encodings. best regards - -Rex 1. http://www.chinalinuxpub.com/bbs/forumdisplay.php?f=73 http://www.debsir.org/ http://www.linuxsir.org/bbs/ http://moto.debian.org.tw/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIMP4YOl4Wbdx2/rkRAj7jAJ4y0kY+E6yvtuF7jlXi68+zD2MvhgCeM/cs yhlu39HZHLJecoRuiEG5xTk= =Csn6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
To li xin: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 不好意思, 您都已��直接寄到小弟的信箱中了, 小弟只有被��迫���x���w的感�X, 您不直接寄到小弟的信箱中. 若您是寄到 mailing list 上面那另���e~ 麻�┠��⒛�的言��及意��直接寄到 mailing list 上面好��? 好��大家知道您的意��及感受. 2008/5/19 li xin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 问题不大啊~你可以只看繁体的，就和现在一样；简体你不习惯可以不看，如同这篇。 2008/5/19 Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi All, 小弟���T看繁�w字 在���x���w字上有困�y 因此反��合�� 2008/4/30 Kanru Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Andrew, I think we should respect the opinions from who are actually using the lists, so I forward this mail to the lists. 2008/4/30 Andrew Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dear folks, Foka went on IRC and ask for merge debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one mailing list. Please check the log for details or read these(I copied from my log) below: 01:56 foka 我最近有��想法：如果把 debian-chinese-big5 和 debian-chinese-gb 二合�橐唬�大家看法如何？ :-) 01:57 aguai foka: 不懂？ 01:57 paulliu [EMAIL PROTECTED]:P 01:57 paulliu aguai, 那是 mailing list 01:58 foka paulliu, [EMAIL PROTECTED] UTF-8 年代了，也不再存在以前 Big5、GB2312 �]件�y�a的���}了。 01:58 paulliu 嗯, [EMAIL PROTECTED] big5 的意思是 chinese-traditional 01:59 paulliu �m然大家都是中��人...不�^繁�w跟���w..��是��有一些���x上 的困�_.. 02:01 paulliu 不�^, debian-chinese-big5 �]有甚�N traffic 就是了.. 02:01 paulliu [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02:01 paulliu 我是�X得, 繁�w中文跟���w中文, 有�r是��分�_的... 02:02 foka 其��整�w�碚f��好；我�J�R好多台���淼呐笥眩�很快熟�R���w字 了。大��朋友看繁�w字，倒也不是���}，只是��不出�矶�已。 02:02 paulliu 是可以看的懂, 但是我自己的是...偶��要猜... 02:03 foka paulliu, 呵呵，正好互相�W��。 :-) 02:03 paulliu 也�S���w中文猜中意思的�C率是 9x%, 日文�h字 4x%.. Debian do have lists for different languages. I think it's easier for support our users. Cause they can use their mother language to ask question and got answer by the mother language. We have separately lists because long time ago, we have encoding difference problem on big5 and gb2312, so that we have two lists for Chinese. But my opinion now Debian is a global community, it is not specfic for any nation or racism. Who use traditional or simplified Chinese are equal participant. But everyone can has opinion. Paulliu said that traditional and simplified Chinese are all Chinese, which I agreed. And Paulliu also think traditional and simplified Chinese should be separate. However the point I concerned is our users support and free software community. So I'd like to ask, what's you guys' opinion: Does our community only limited in Taiwan or China? Do you guys agree people from over the world can be also part of Debian community? You guys prefer to do the user support together or separately, and why? Please give your valuable opinion. Kindest regards, -Andrew -- ~ Kanru Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'v' http://stu.csie.ncnu.edu.tw/~kanru.96/ // \\ GnuPG-Key ID: 365CC7A2 /( )\ Fingerprint: 3278 DFB4 BB28 6E8C 9E1F 1ECB B1B7 5B5F 365C C7A2 ^`~'^
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
这个mail list缺省是回复给上一个发信人的，如果点击全部回复，则会cc给listname@lists.debian.org。所以直接寄到个人邮箱（就是所谓的强迫）应该是这个maillist的默认规则，不是被强迫的。如果不希望这样，则可以选择退出邮件列表，或者让maillist的管理员修改一下规则，或者提前邮件里面声明一下 请不要直接给我回信，回信的时候把我的地址从收件人或者cc列表中删除 了 -- 瑞豪开源VPS - 基于Linux/Xen - 最低58元/月 - 免费试用 http://www.RasHost.com 2008/5/19 Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: To li xin: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 不好意思, 您都已��直接寄到小弟的信箱中了, 小弟只有被��迫���x���w的感�X, 您不直接寄到小弟的信箱中. 若您是寄到 mailing list 上面那另���e~ 麻�┠��⒛�的言��及意��直接寄到 mailing list 上面好��? 好��大家知道您的意��及感受. 2008/5/19 li xin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 问题不大啊~你可以只看繁体的，就和现在一样；简体你不习惯可以不看，如同这篇。 2008/5/19 Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi All, 小弟���T看繁�w字 在���x���w字上有困�y 因此反��合�� 2008/4/30 Kanru Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Andrew, I think we should respect the opinions from who are actually using the lists, so I forward this mail to the lists. 2008/4/30 Andrew Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dear folks, Foka went on IRC and ask for merge debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one mailing list. Please check the log for details or read these(I copied from my log) below: 01:56 foka 我最近有��想法：如果把 debian-chinese-big5 和 debian-chinese-gb 二合�橐唬�大家看法如何？ :-) 01:57 aguai foka: 不懂？ 01:57 paulliu [EMAIL PROTECTED]:P 01:57 paulliu aguai, 那是 mailing list 01:58 foka paulliu, [EMAIL PROTECTED] UTF-8 年代了，也不再存在以前 Big5、GB2312 �]件�y�a的���}了。 01:58 paulliu 嗯, [EMAIL PROTECTED] big5 的意思是 chinese-traditional 01:59 paulliu �m然大家都是中��人...不�^繁�w跟���w..��是��有一些���x上 的困�_.. 02:01 paulliu 不�^, debian-chinese-big5 �]有甚�N traffic 就是了.. 02:01 paulliu [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02:01 paulliu 我是�X得, 繁�w中文跟���w中文, 有�r是��分�_的... 02:02 foka 其��整�w�碚f��好；我�J�R好多台���淼呐笥眩�很快熟�R���w字 了。大��朋友看繁�w字，倒也不是���}，只是��不出�矶�已。 02:02 paulliu 是可以看的懂, 但是我自己的是...偶��要猜... 02:03 foka paulliu, 呵呵，正好互相�W��。 :-) 02:03 paulliu 也�S���w中文猜中意思的�C率是 9x%, 日文�h字 4x%.. Debian do have lists for different languages. I think it's easier for support our users. Cause they can use their mother language to ask question and got answer by the mother language. We have separately lists because long time ago, we have encoding difference problem on big5 and gb2312, so that we have two lists for Chinese. But my opinion now Debian is a global community, it is not specfic for any nation or racism. Who use traditional or simplified Chinese are equal participant. But everyone can has opinion. Paulliu said that traditional and simplified Chinese are all Chinese, which I agreed. And Paulliu also think traditional and simplified Chinese should be separate. However the point I concerned is our users support and free software community. So I'd like to ask, what's you guys' opinion: Does our community only limited in Taiwan or China? Do you guys agree people from over the world can be also part of Debian community? You guys prefer to do the user support together or separately, and why? Please give your valuable opinion. Kindest regards, -Andrew -- ~ Kanru Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'v' http://stu.csie.ncnu.edu.tw/~kanru.96/ // \\ GnuPG-Key ID: 365CC7A2 /( )\ Fingerprint: 3278 DFB4 BB28 6E8C 9E1F 1ECB B1B7 5B5F 365C C7A2 ^`~'^
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
我还以为是 Gmail 的问题啊，原来是debian mail list的问题， 确实应该修改一下 2008/5/19 Zu [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 这个mail list缺省是回复给上一个发信人的，如果点击全部回复，则会cc给listname@lists.debian.org 。所以直接寄到个人邮箱（就是所谓的强迫）应该是这个maillist的默认规则，不是被强迫的。如果不希望这样，则可以选择退出邮件列表，或者让maillist的管理员修改一下规则，或者提前邮件里面声明一下 请不要直接给我回信，回信的时候把我的地址从收件人或者cc列表中删除 了 -- 瑞豪开源VPS - 基于Linux/Xen - 最低58元/月 - 免费试用 http://www.RasHost.com 2008/5/19 Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: To li xin: 這位內地的朋友, 不好意思, 您都已經直接寄到小弟的信箱中了, 小弟只有被強迫閱讀簡體的感覺, 您不應該直接寄到小弟的信箱中. 若您是寄到 mailing list 上面那另當別論囉~ 麻煩您將您的言論及意見直接寄到 mailing list 上面好嗎? 好讓大家知道您的意見及感受. 2008/5/19 li xin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 问题不大啊~你可以只看繁体的，就和现在一样；简体你不习惯可以不看，如同这篇。 2008/5/19 Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi All, 小弟習慣看繁體字 在閱讀簡體字上有困難 因此反對合併 2008/4/30 Kanru Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Andrew, I think we should respect the opinions from who are actually using the lists, so I forward this mail to the lists. 2008/4/30 Andrew Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dear folks, Foka went on IRC and ask for merge debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one mailing list. Please check the log for details or read these(I copied from my log) below: 01:56 foka 我最近有個想法：如果把 debian-chinese-big5 和 debian-chinese-gb 二合為一，大家看法如何？ :-) 01:57 aguai foka: 不懂？ 01:57 paulliu 唔...為啥要做這件事??..:P 01:57 paulliu aguai, 那是兩個 mailing list 01:58 foka paulliu, 是這樣的：現在都是 UTF-8 年代了，也不再存在以前 Big5、GB2312 郵件亂碼的問題了。 01:58 paulliu 嗯, 的確...不過我是這麼想的...其實那個 big5 的意思應該是 chinese-traditional 01:59 paulliu 雖然大家都是中國人...不過繁體跟簡體..還是會有一些閱讀上 的困擾.. 02:01 paulliu 不過, debian-chinese-big5 沒有甚麼 traffic 就是了.. 02:01 paulliu 當然這只是我的看法而已啦.. 02:01 paulliu 我是覺得, 繁體中文跟簡體中文, 有時是該分開的... 02:02 foka 其實整體來說還好；我認識好多台灣來的朋友，很快熟識簡體字 了。大陸朋友看繁體字，倒也不是問題，只是寫不出來而已。 02:02 paulliu 是可以看的懂, 但是我自己的經驗是...偶爾要猜... 02:03 foka paulliu, 呵呵，正好互相學習。 :-) 02:03 paulliu 也許簡體中文猜中意思的機率是 9x%, 日文漢字 4x%.. Debian do have lists for different languages. I think it's easier for support our users. Cause they can use their mother language to ask question and got answer by the mother language. We have separately lists because long time ago, we have encoding difference problem on big5 and gb2312, so that we have two lists for Chinese. But my opinion now Debian is a global community, it is not specfic for any nation or racism. Who use traditional or simplified Chinese are equal participant. But everyone can has opinion. Paulliu said that traditional and simplified Chinese are all Chinese, which I agreed. And Paulliu also think traditional and simplified Chinese should be separate. However the point I concerned is our users support and free software community. So I'd like to ask, what's you guys' opinion: Does our community only limited in Taiwan or China? Do you guys agree people from over the world can be also part of Debian community? You guys prefer to do the user support together or separately, and why? Please give your valuable opinion. Kindest regards, -Andrew -- ~ Kanru Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'v' http://stu.csie.ncnu.edu.tw/~kanru.96/http://stu.csie.ncnu.edu.tw/%7Ekanru.96/ // \\ GnuPG-Key ID: 365CC7A2 /( )\ Fingerprint: 3278 DFB4 BB28 6E8C 9E1F 1ECB B1B7 5B5F 365C C7A2 ^`~'^ -- Life Is Full of Choices
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
Hi all, Why don't we have a vote? Cheers Zhengpeng Hou signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
同意，保持繁体的继续生存。 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 默认用utf8，不限语言，当然用户大部分是华人。 其他保持原状不变，一国3码。 On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear All, My opinion is to reopen [EMAIL PROTECTED] to use utf8 or to open another mailing list, named as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Keep debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org and [EMAIL PROTECTED] for their local users. Then use traditional chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED] and use simplified chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use both of traditional and simplified chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED]/[EMAIL PROTECTED] $4 2008/5/19 Rex Tsai [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 This is interesting, this thread is probably one of the most active in last couple months. :-) My option is to merge these two mailing list. Even though the list is most helping Debian users solve their problems, and users feel more comfortable when using the characters they can read. But there are already many local user group[1] set up online forum for helping out the users, which makes the mission of these two mailing lists marginal. Some people would say Debian is doing very good on supporting Chinese. But it does not mean we can stop the mailing list. Still, there are many decisions need to be made for the new packages and releases. And both encodings/languages communities are sharing these results of these decisions, since we are sharing the basically infrastructures for fonts, input method, configurations. The mailing list is the right place to submit Chinese-related suggestions, which is the place that Debian Developers can discuss and work together. A boundary of mailing encodings will make this kind of discussions difficult. And most of the modern softwares support big5/gb2312/unicode without problems, people can easily read the messages or translate the encodings by themselves. There is not need to split the mailing lists by encodings. best regards - -Rex 1. http://www.chinalinuxpub.com/bbs/forumdisplay.php?f=73 http://www.debsir.org/ http://www.linuxsir.org/bbs/ http://moto.debian.org.tw/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIMP4YOl4Wbdx2/rkRAj7jAJ4y0kY+E6yvtuF7jlXi68+zD2MvhgCeM/cs yhlu39HZHLJecoRuiEG5xTk= =Csn6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
My opinion is to merge these two mailing list. 2008/4/30, Kanru Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Andrew, I think we should respect the opinions from who are actually using the lists, so I forward this mail to the lists. 2008/4/30 Andrew Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dear folks, Foka went on IRC and ask for merge debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one mailing list. Please check the log for details or read these(I copied from my log) below: 01:56 foka 我最近有��想法：如果把 debian-chinese-big5 和 debian-chinese-gb 二合�橐唬�大家看法如何？ :-) 01:57 aguai foka: 不懂？ 01:57 paulliu [EMAIL PROTECTED]:P 01:57 paulliu aguai, 那是 mailing list 01:58 foka paulliu, [EMAIL PROTECTED] UTF-8 年代了，也不再存在以前 Big5、GB2312 �]件�y�a的���}了。 01:58 paulliu 嗯, [EMAIL PROTECTED] big5 的意思是 chinese-traditional 01:59 paulliu �m然大家都是中��人...不�^繁�w跟���w..��是��有一些���x上 的困�_.. 02:01 paulliu 不�^, debian-chinese-big5 �]有甚�N traffic 就是了.. 02:01 paulliu [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02:01 paulliu 我是�X得, 繁�w中文跟���w中文, 有�r是��分�_的... 02:02 foka 其��整�w�碚f��好；我�J�R好多台���淼呐笥眩�很快熟�R���w字 了。大��朋友看繁�w字，倒也不是���}，只是��不出�矶�已。 02:02 paulliu 是可以看的懂, 但是我自己的是...偶��要猜... 02:03 foka paulliu, 呵呵，正好互相�W��。 :-) 02:03 paulliu 也�S���w中文猜中意思的�C率是 9x%, 日文�h字 4x%.. Debian do have lists for different languages. I think it's easier for support our users. Cause they can use their mother language to ask question and got answer by the mother language. We have separately lists because long time ago, we have encoding difference problem on big5 and gb2312, so that we have two lists for Chinese. But my opinion now Debian is a global community, it is not specfic for any nation or racism. Who use traditional or simplified Chinese are equal participant. But everyone can has opinion. Paulliu said that traditional and simplified Chinese are all Chinese, which I agreed. And Paulliu also think traditional and simplified Chinese should be separate. However the point I concerned is our users support and free software community. So I'd like to ask, what's you guys' opinion: Does our community only limited in Taiwan or China? Do you guys agree people from over the world can be also part of Debian community? You guys prefer to do the user support together or separately, and why? Please give your valuable opinion. Kindest regards, -Andrew -- ~ Kanru Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'v' http://stu.csie.ncnu.edu.tw/~kanru.96/ // \\ GnuPG-Key ID: 365CC7A2 /( )\ Fingerprint: 3278 DFB4 BB28 6E8C 9E1F 1ECB B1B7 5B5F 365C C7A2 ^`~'^
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
我订阅是gb，为什么还有繁体呢？我不愿意浪费时间看繁体，为什么要合并呢?
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
Dear Zu, ��您注意一下 li xin 直接寄�o我的��息 问题不大啊~你可以只看繁体的，就和现在一样；简体你不习惯可以不看，如同这篇。 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] 跟所�^的 maillist 的默�J���t一�c�P�S都�]有 小弟只是反��在���x���w上有困�y(�K不是�]有能力���x), 反�� big5 �c gb 合��, 建�h另�_ utf8 2008/5/19 Zu [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 这个mail list缺省是回复给上一个发信人的，如果点击全部回复，则会cc给listname@lists.debian.org。所以直接寄到个人邮箱（就是所谓的强迫）应该是这个maillist的默认规则，不是被强迫的。如果不希望这样，则可以选择退出邮件列表，或者让maillist的管理员修改一下规则，或者提前邮件里面声明一下 请不要直接给我回信，回信的时候把我的地址从收件人或者cc列表中删除 了 -- 瑞豪开源VPS - 基于Linux/Xen - 最低58元/月 - 免费试用 http://www.RasHost.com 2008/5/19 Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: To li xin: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 不好意思, 您都已��直接寄到小弟的信箱中了, 小弟只有被��迫���x���w的感�X, 您不直接寄到小弟的信箱中. 若您是寄到 mailing list 上面那另���e~ 麻�┠��⒛�的言��及意��直接寄到 mailing list 上面好��? 好��大家知道您的意��及感受. 2008/5/19 li xin [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 问题不大啊~你可以只看繁体的，就和现在一样；简体你不习惯可以不看，如同这篇。 2008/5/19 Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi All, 小弟���T看繁�w字 在���x���w字上有困�y 因此反��合�� 2008/4/30 Kanru Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Andrew, I think we should respect the opinions from who are actually using the lists, so I forward this mail to the lists. 2008/4/30 Andrew Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dear folks, Foka went on IRC and ask for merge debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one mailing list. Please check the log for details or read these(I copied from my log) below: 01:56 foka 我最近有��想法：如果把 debian-chinese-big5 和 debian-chinese-gb 二合�橐唬�大家看法如何？ :-) 01:57 aguai foka: 不懂？ 01:57 paulliu [EMAIL PROTECTED]:P 01:57 paulliu aguai, 那是 mailing list 01:58 foka paulliu, [EMAIL PROTECTED] UTF-8 年代了，也不再存在以前 Big5、GB2312 �]件�y�a的���}了。 01:58 paulliu 嗯, [EMAIL PROTECTED] big5 的意思是 chinese-traditional 01:59 paulliu �m然大家都是中��人...不�^繁�w跟���w..��是��有一些���x上 的困�_.. 02:01 paulliu 不�^, debian-chinese-big5 �]有甚�N traffic 就是了.. 02:01 paulliu [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02:01 paulliu 我是�X得, 繁�w中文跟���w中文, 有�r是��分�_的... 02:02 foka 其��整�w�碚f��好；我�J�R好多台���淼呐笥眩�很快熟�R���w字 了。大��朋友看繁�w字，倒也不是���}，只是��不出�矶�已。 02:02 paulliu 是可以看的懂, 但是我自己的是...偶��要猜... 02:03 foka paulliu, 呵呵，正好互相�W��。 :-) 02:03 paulliu 也�S���w中文猜中意思的�C率是 9x%, 日文�h字 4x%.. Debian do have lists for different languages. I think it's easier for support our users. Cause they can use their mother language to ask question and got answer by the mother language. We have separately lists because long time ago, we have encoding difference problem on big5 and gb2312, so that we have two lists for Chinese. But my opinion now Debian is a global community, it is not specfic for any nation or racism. Who use traditional or simplified Chinese are equal participant. But everyone can has opinion. Paulliu said that traditional and simplified Chinese are all Chinese, which I agreed. And Paulliu also think traditional and simplified Chinese should be separate. However the point I concerned is our users support and free software community. So I'd like to ask, what's you guys' opinion: Does our community only limited in Taiwan or China? Do you guys agree people from over the world can be also part of Debian community? You guys prefer to do the user support together or separately, and why? Please give your valuable opinion. Kindest regards, -Andrew -- ~ Kanru Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'v' http://stu.csie.ncnu.edu.tw/~kanru.96/ // \\ GnuPG-Key ID: 365CC7A2 /( )\ Fingerprint: 3278 DFB4 BB28 6E8C 9E1F 1ECB B1B7 5B5F 365C C7A2 ^`~'^
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED] : On Mon, 19 May 2008 16:55:26 +0800 Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Zu, 請您注意一下 li xin 直接寄給我的訊息 问题不大啊~你可以只看繁体的，就和现在一样；简体你不习惯可以不看，如同这篇。 這位朋友回了一封簡體郵件給我請我別看簡體信件~ 這個行為的本身不就是在強迫小弟看他寄過來的簡體信件了嗎? 跟所謂的 maillist 的默認規則一點關係都沒有 小弟只是反應在閱讀簡體上有困難(並不是沒有能力閱讀), 反對 big5 與 gb 合併, 建議另開 utf8 这是对于邮件列表使用习惯不熟悉或者不注意所致。 现在的问题不在于 gb、big5 还是 utf-8，编码不是问题，问题是对于所有中文用户而言， 很多问题都是相通的，合并以后可以让大家更好地交流。 大家可以看看现在 -gb 和 -big5 每个月的流量[1]，-gb 每月有 200 封左右，-big5 在 2003 年以后流量非常少，而且多是垃圾邮件。这说明真正使用 -big5 列表的人数是非常少的。在这种情况下， 流量再分不会有任何的好处，结果就是很多人会同时订阅多个列表。 阅读上的问题可以做选择性阅读，但我想大家在信息互通上应该问题都不大，也可以了解两岸之间对于自 由软件理解的差异。所以合并的利大于弊。 [1] http://lists.debian.org/stats/ - -- A. Because it makes the logic of the discussion difficult to follow. Q. Why shoudn't I top post? A. No. Q Should I top post? A: Because it destroys the flow of the conversation Q: Why is it bad? A: No, it's bad. Q: Should I top post in replies to mailing lists? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (MingW32) iEYEARECAAYFAkgxTlEACgkQYjhzyV/TMxtAkQCfQxlcgizHE0sxHka5io126zo3 DvAAn2zq4L1HGa+SojSJQhH+k9cO4cB9 =M5QJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
On Mon, 19 May 2008 15:36:00 +0800, ZhengPeng Hou [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Why don't we have a vote? Cheers Zhengpeng Hou I wouldn't think that will be fair, there are just not so many active big5 users around； but their opinion should be respected non the less. 这不公平，big5编码的使用者虽然比较少，对这些用户有利才好。 But I do think merging two low volume mailing list is a good option. Reading another Chinese (yes, I mean people) shall be not a big problem and it's fun to guess. 我觉得合并比较好。读懂另一个人的中文应该没问题。 -- regards, Zhan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
why, just so to have less users per list. if most users end up subscribe to all three, why not just merge them. 为什么，那样每个邮件列表上的人会更少。估计很多人会订阅两三个，为什么不直接合并。 不限语言？我希望中文列表上还是看中文好。英文勉强接受，至少大家懂。其它的还是不要了。 On Mon, 19 May 2008 15:50:57 +0800, Yufeng Lan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 同意，保持繁体的继续生存。 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 默认用utf8，不限语言，当然用户大部分是华人。 其他保持原状不变，一国3码。 On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear All, My opinion is to reopen [EMAIL PROTECTED] to use utf8 or to open another mailing list, named as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Keep debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org and [EMAIL PROTECTED] for their local users. Then use traditional chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED] and use simplified chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use both of traditional and simplified chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED]/[EMAIL PROTECTED] $4 2008/5/19 Rex Tsai [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 This is interesting, this thread is probably one of the most active in last couple months. :-) My option is to merge these two mailing list. Even though the list is most helping Debian users solve their problems, and users feel more comfortable when using the characters they can read. But there are already many local user group[1] set up online forum for helping out the users, which makes the mission of these two mailing lists marginal. Some people would say Debian is doing very good on supporting Chinese. But it does not mean we can stop the mailing list. Still, there are many decisions need to be made for the new packages and releases. And both encodings/languages communities are sharing these results of these decisions, since we are sharing the basically infrastructures for fonts, input method, configurations. The mailing list is the right place to submit Chinese-related suggestions, which is the place that Debian Developers can discuss and work together. A boundary of mailing encodings will make this kind of discussions difficult. And most of the modern softwares support big5/gb2312/unicode without problems, people can easily read the messages or translate the encodings by themselves. There is not need to split the mailing lists by encodings. best regards - -Rex 1. http://www.chinalinuxpub.com/bbs/forumdisplay.php?f=73 http://www.debsir.org/ http://www.linuxsir.org/bbs/ http://moto.debian.org.tw/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIMP4YOl4Wbdx2/rkRAj7jAJ4y0kY+E6yvtuF7jlXi68+zD2MvhgCeM/cs yhlu39HZHLJecoRuiEG5xTk= =Csn6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- regards, Zhan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
同意合并，这样更方便的在邮件列表上查找问题，毕竟不是论坛，碰到自己感兴趣的问题我想简体繁体都应该不是沟通的障碍，两岸的朋友也能更好的交换想法。 2008/5/19 Zhan [EMAIL PROTECTED]: why, just so to have less users per list. if most users end up subscribe to all three, why not just merge them. 为什么，那样每个邮件列表上的人会更少。估计很多人会订阅两三个，为什么不直接合并。 不限语言？我希望中文列表上还是看中文好。英文勉强接受，至少大家懂。其它的还是不要了。 On Mon, 19 May 2008 15:50:57 +0800, Yufeng Lan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 同意，保持繁体的继续生存。 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 默认用utf8，不限语言，当然用户大部分是华人。 其他保持原状不变，一国3码。 On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 1:41 PM, Shih-Yuan Lee (FourDollars) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear All, My opinion is to reopen [EMAIL PROTECTED] to use utf8 or to open another mailing list, named as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Keep debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org and [EMAIL PROTECTED] for their local users. Then use traditional chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED] and use simplified chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use both of traditional and simplified chinese in [EMAIL PROTECTED]/[EMAIL PROTECTED] $4 2008/5/19 Rex Tsai [EMAIL PROTECTED]: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 This is interesting, this thread is probably one of the most active in last couple months. :-) My option is to merge these two mailing list. Even though the list is most helping Debian users solve their problems, and users feel more comfortable when using the characters they can read. But there are already many local user group[1] set up online forum for helping out the users, which makes the mission of these two mailing lists marginal. Some people would say Debian is doing very good on supporting Chinese. But it does not mean we can stop the mailing list. Still, there are many decisions need to be made for the new packages and releases. And both encodings/languages communities are sharing these results of these decisions, since we are sharing the basically infrastructures for fonts, input method, configurations. The mailing list is the right place to submit Chinese-related suggestions, which is the place that Debian Developers can discuss and work together. A boundary of mailing encodings will make this kind of discussions difficult. And most of the modern softwares support big5/gb2312/unicode without problems, people can easily read the messages or translate the encodings by themselves. There is not need to split the mailing lists by encodings. best regards - -Rex 1. http://www.chinalinuxpub.com/bbs/forumdisplay.php?f=73 http://www.debsir.org/ http://www.linuxsir.org/bbs/ http://moto.debian.org.tw/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIMP4YOl4Wbdx2/rkRAj7jAJ4y0kY+E6yvtuF7jlXi68+zD2MvhgCeM/cs yhlu39HZHLJecoRuiEG5xTk= =Csn6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- regards, Zhan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
同意合并.应该大部分人都可以看得懂简繁体,就像英文,好多人可能英文没有熟练到可以方便的参与英文的讨论,但看得懂,也获益不少.更何况,简繁之间应该没有这么大的差距. 既便有人不懂或不习惯,也可以完全不参与或不理会那部分信件.
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
Hi All, 小弟習慣看繁體字 在閱讀簡體字上有困難 因此反對合併 2008/4/30 Kanru Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Andrew, I think we should respect the opinions from who are actually using the lists, so I forward this mail to the lists. 2008/4/30 Andrew Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dear folks, Foka went on IRC and ask for merge debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one mailing list. Please check the log for details or read these(I copied from my log) below: 01:56 foka 我最近有個想法：如果把 debian-chinese-big5 和 debian-chinese-gb 二合為一，大家看法如何？ :-) 01:57 aguai foka: 不懂？ 01:57 paulliu 唔...為啥要做這件事??..:P 01:57 paulliu aguai, 那是兩個 mailing list 01:58 foka paulliu, 是這樣的：現在都是 UTF-8 年代了，也不再存在以前 Big5、GB2312 郵件亂碼的問題了。 01:58 paulliu 嗯, 的確...不過我是這麼想的...其實那個 big5 的意思應該是 chinese-traditional 01:59 paulliu 雖然大家都是中國人...不過繁體跟簡體..還是會有一些閱讀上 的困擾.. 02:01 paulliu 不過, debian-chinese-big5 沒有甚麼 traffic 就是了.. 02:01 paulliu 當然這只是我的看法而已啦.. 02:01 paulliu 我是覺得, 繁體中文跟簡體中文, 有時是該分開的... 02:02 foka 其實整體來說還好；我認識好多台灣來的朋友，很快熟識簡體字 了。大陸朋友看繁體字，倒也不是問題，只是寫不出來而已。 02:02 paulliu 是可以看的懂, 但是我自己的經驗是...偶爾要猜... 02:03 foka paulliu, 呵呵，正好互相學習。 :-) 02:03 paulliu 也許簡體中文猜中意思的機率是 9x%, 日文漢字 4x%.. Debian do have lists for different languages. I think it's easier for support our users. Cause they can use their mother language to ask question and got answer by the mother language. We have separately lists because long time ago, we have encoding difference problem on big5 and gb2312, so that we have two lists for Chinese. But my opinion now Debian is a global community, it is not specfic for any nation or racism. Who use traditional or simplified Chinese are equal participant. But everyone can has opinion. Paulliu said that traditional and simplified Chinese are all Chinese, which I agreed. And Paulliu also think traditional and simplified Chinese should be separate. However the point I concerned is our users support and free software community. So I'd like to ask, what's you guys' opinion: Does our community only limited in Taiwan or China? Do you guys agree people from over the world can be also part of Debian community? You guys prefer to do the user support together or separately, and why? Please give your valuable opinion. Kindest regards, -Andrew -- ~ Kanru Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'v' http://stu.csie.ncnu.edu.tw/~kanru.96/ // \\ GnuPG-Key ID: 365CC7A2 /( )\ Fingerprint: 3278 DFB4 BB28 6E8C 9E1F 1ECB B1B7 5B5F 365C C7A2 ^`~'^
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 This is interesting, this thread is probably one of the most active in last couple months. :-) My option is to merge these two mailing list. Even though the list is most helping Debian users solve their problems, and users feel more comfortable when using the characters they can read. But there are already many local user group[1] set up online forum for helping out the users, which makes the mission of these two mailing lists marginal. Some people would say Debian is doing very good on supporting Chinese. But it does not mean we can stop the mailing list. Still, there are many decisions need to be made for the new packages and releases. And both encodings/languages communities are sharing these results of these decisions, since we are sharing the basically infrastructures for fonts, input method, configurations. The mailing list is the right place to submit Chinese-related suggestions, which is the place that Debian Developers can discuss and work together. A boundary of mailing encodings will make this kind of discussions difficult. And most of the modern softwares support big5/gb2312/unicode without problems, people can easily read the messages or translate the encodings by themselves. There is not need to split the mailing lists by encodings. best regards - -Rex 1. http://www.chinalinuxpub.com/bbs/forumdisplay.php?f=73 http://www.debsir.org/ http://www.linuxsir.org/bbs/ http://moto.debian.org.tw/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIMP4YOl4Wbdx2/rkRAj7jAJ4y0kY+E6yvtuF7jlXi68+zD2MvhgCeM/cs yhlu39HZHLJecoRuiEG5xTk= =Csn6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
我也希望合并，其��，在��算�C上�x和��繁体字，�τ诤�体字用�粢稽c不是甚�N大���}――用鼠�诉x�褚幌露�已，只是�岩杉蚍蔽淖只煸涌雌鹄椿岵换岷芑炻�? 还有专有名词的区别。 比如： 小明每天���]件�o女朋友，他��是喜�g���l生在自己身上的糗事，好 像在���e人的故事一�印� 美美每天照镜子，希望自己能再瘦一点，这样可以参加模特表演。 每天晚上只要看得��月亮，大��就��架起望�h�R�^察。 莎莎很爱惜从图书馆借来的书，如果偶尔发现残破的书，还会自己进 行修补后再还回去。 中文和英文混排是有，但我们很少为一个意思同时使用两种文字（比如：我打开mail，发现�]件被退回，原因是mail的收信人不存在，看来对方的�]件地址变了） 是不是还是能在合并的同时，大家尽量使用同类的文字和术语。也方便搜索引擎做索引。我个人很喜欢读写繁体字，这样有时想看古籍也方便，但不会在简体使用环境里特别使用繁体，感觉怪怪的。 2008/5/10 Cantoraz Zhou [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 支持合并,不必转换,大家都是有一点点文化的人,识字(不论繁简)总该不是问题吧. 我们能接受同一封邮件里中英文混排,为什么不能接受同一邮件列表中不同邮件的繁简汉字共存呢?
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
简繁转换实际上挺复杂的吧，并不是简单的一一对应。用程序机械地处理后反而可能造成信息的丢失。所以我想不需要转换，根据前面的讨论，海峡两岸的朋友读简繁体的文章问题好像都不太大吧。 2008/5/6 Ding Honghui [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The mail archive is not a problem[1], and mail send from list has charset specific in mail header. The only problem(maybe not a problem) is user will recieve both traditional chinese and simple chinese. hmm, and libhz maybe can do something magic on it. :) [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/charset.html#h-5.3.1 Andrew Lee wrote: Hi, I am not lists manager. But I guess the only way to solve this is only accept UTF-8 encoding if the two lists are merged. 我不是 list 管理者。但我�X得若要合�悖�唯一解�Q的�k法是使用 UTF-8 ��作唯 一���a，如同 Kanru �f的，在�]件客�舳宿D成自己的喜好。 我是 list 管理者的想法吧。 -Andrew Deng Xiyue wrote: 在 2008-05-06二的 00:09 +0800，Zu写道： 其实我感觉没有必要去区分使用者的编码是简体还是繁体 问题在于 mail archive 需要指定编码。 -- Best Regards, Ding Honghui -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- 以Wiki模式创建Linux中文文档，欢迎加入 http://www.linux-wiki.cn/
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
支持合并,不必转换,大家都是有一点点文化的人,识字(不论繁简)总该不是问题吧. 我们能接受同一封邮件里中英文混排,为什么不能接受同一邮件列表中不同邮件的繁简汉字共存呢?
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
On Sat, 3 May 2008 13:13:11 +0800 Vern Sun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 虽然简体和繁体的文字符号有部分差别，但是语音和语义是完全相同的。它们都是汉语。 电邮不像网页，网页的简繁合并问题就意味着必须由某一个文字系统替代另一个文字系统 进行发布，这是强迫式的，不自由的。但是电邮是由用户主导的，繁体用户发繁体邮件， 简体用户发简体邮件，既然现在 UTF-8 编码实现了简繁的混编，而且简繁文字系统之间 的交叉阅读也不存在太大问题，那么合并之后不会给用户的使用习惯带来太大伤害。而且 这样可以降低维护负担。 -- Vern 2008-05-03 支持，看基本没问题，最主要的问题是写。 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
Hi, 有沒有辦法做到像Firefox上同文堂那樣簡繁轉換, 例如在GB那邊發簡體信, 訂閱Big5的用戶能夠收到繁體? Andrew Lee 提到: Kanru Chen wrote: I think we should respect the opinions from who are actually using the lists, so I forward this mail to the lists. Thanks Kanru. Let's open this issue to our users who are actually using the lists. Cheers, -Andrew
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
2008/5/5 Jack Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, 有沒有辦法做到像Firefox上同文堂那樣簡繁轉換, 例如在GB那邊發簡體信, 訂閱Big5的用戶能夠收到繁體? Hi, 如果合併之後應該就沒辦法區分使用者的編碼了，除非還要先向 ML 登記... 如果從 client 端處理倒還有可能 -- ~ Kanru Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'v' http://stu.csie.ncnu.edu.tw/~kanru.96/ // \\ GnuPG-Key ID: 365CC7A2 /( )\ Fingerprint: 3278 DFB4 BB28 6E8C 9E1F 1ECB B1B7 5B5F 365C C7A2 ^`~'^
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
其实我感觉没有必要去区分使用者的编码是简体还是繁体 -- Email/Gtalk/MSN/QQ: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 瑞豪开源VPS - 基于Linux/Xen - 最低58元/月 - 免费试用 http://www.RasHost.com 2008/5/5 Kanru Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, 如果合�阒�後就�]�k法�^分使用者的���a了，除非��要先向 ML 登��... 如果�� client 端��理倒��有可能 -- ~ Kanru Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'v' http://stu.csie.ncnu.edu.tw/~kanru.96/ // \\ GnuPG-Key ID: 365CC7A2 /( )\ Fingerprint: 3278 DFB4 BB28 6E8C 9E1F 1ECB B1B7 5B5F 365C C7A2 ^`~'^
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
在 2008-04-30三的 16:15 +0800，Kanru Chen写道： Hi Andrew, I think we should respect the opinions from who are actually using the lists, so I forward this mail to the lists. It'll be great to see this happen :) 2008/4/30 Andrew Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dear folks, Foka went on IRC and ask for merge debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one mailing list. Please check the log for details or read these(I copied from my log) below: 01:56 foka 我最近有個想法：如果把 debian-chinese-big5 和 debian-chinese-gb 二合為一，大家看法如何？ :-) 01:57 aguai foka: 不懂？ 01:57 paulliu 唔...為啥要做這件事??..:P 01:57 paulliu aguai, 那是兩個 mailing list 01:58 foka paulliu, 是這樣的：現在都是 UTF-8 年代了，也不再存在以前 Big5、GB2312 郵件亂碼的問題了。 01:58 paulliu 嗯, 的確...不過我是這麼想的...其實那個 big5 的意思應該是 chinese-traditional 01:59 paulliu 雖然大家都是中國人...不過繁體跟簡體..還是會有一些閱讀上 的困擾.. 02:01 paulliu 不過, debian-chinese-big5 沒有甚麼 traffic 就是了.. 02:01 paulliu 當然這只是我的看法而已啦.. 02:01 paulliu 我是覺得, 繁體中文跟簡體中文, 有時是該分開的... 02:02 foka 其實整體來說還好；我認識好多台灣來的朋友，很快熟識簡體字 了。大陸朋友看繁體字，倒也不是問題，只是寫不出來而已。 02:02 paulliu 是可以看的懂, 但是我自己的經驗是...偶爾要猜... 02:03 foka paulliu, 呵呵，正好互相學習。 :-) 02:03 paulliu 也許簡體中文猜中意思的機率是 9x%, 日文漢字 4x%.. Debian do have lists for different languages. I think it's easier for support our users. Cause they can use their mother language to ask question and got answer by the mother language. We have separately lists because long time ago, we have encoding difference problem on big5 and gb2312, so that we have two lists for Chinese. But my opinion now Debian is a global community, it is not specfic for any nation or racism. Who use traditional or simplified Chinese are equal participant. But everyone can has opinion. Paulliu said that traditional and simplified Chinese are all Chinese, which I agreed. And Paulliu also think traditional and simplified Chinese should be separate. However the point I concerned is our users support and free software community. So I'd like to ask, what's you guys' opinion: Does our community only limited in Taiwan or China? Do you guys agree people from over the world can be also part of Debian community? You guys prefer to do the user support together or separately, and why? Please give your valuable opinion. Kindest regards, -Andrew -- Regards, Deng Xiyue, a.k.a. manphiz signature.asc Description: 这是信件的数字签 名部分
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
The traditional and simple chinese are both a piece of cake for me. :) As the traffic of both lists are low, I suggest merge them. Zu wrote: I prefer merging and I agree that traditional and simplified Chinese are all Chinese. -- Email/Gtalk/MSN/QQ: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 瑞豪开源VPS - 基于Linux/Xen http://www.RasHost.com 2008/4/30 Kanru Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Andrew, I think we should respect the opinions from who are actually using the lists, so I forward this mail to the lists. 2008/4/30 Andrew Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dear folks, Foka went on IRC and ask for merge debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one mailing list. Please check the log for details or read these(I copied from my log) below: 01:56 foka 我最近有��想法：如果把 debian-chinese-big5 和 debian-chinese-gb 二合�橐唬�大家看法如何？ :-) 01:57 aguai foka: 不懂？ 01:57 paulliu [EMAIL PROTECTED]:P 01:57 paulliu aguai, 那是 mailing list 01:58 foka paulliu, [EMAIL PROTECTED] UTF-8 年代了，也不再存 在以前 Big5、GB2312 �]件�y�a的���}了。 01:58 paulliu 嗯, [EMAIL PROTECTED] big5 的意 思是 chinese-traditional 01:59 paulliu �m然大家都是中��人...不�^繁�w跟���w..��是��有一 些���x上 的困�_.. 02:01 paulliu 不�^, debian-chinese-big5 �]有甚�N traffic 就是了.. 02:01 paulliu [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02:01 paulliu 我是�X得, 繁�w中文跟���w中文, 有�r是��分�_的... 02:02 foka 其��整�w�碚f��好；我�J�R好多台���淼呐笥眩�很快熟�R ���w字 了。大��朋友看繁�w字，倒也不是���}，只是��不出�矶�已。 02:02 paulliu 是可以看的懂, 但是我自己的是...偶��要猜... 02:03 foka paulliu, 呵呵，正好互相�W��。 :-) 02:03 paulliu 也�S���w中文猜中意思的�C率是 9x%, 日文�h字 4x%.. Debian do have lists for different languages. I think it's easier for support our users. Cause they can use their mother language to ask question and got answer by the mother language. We have separately lists because long time ago, we have encoding difference problem on big5 and gb2312, so that we have two lists for Chinese. But my opinion now Debian is a global community, it is not specfic for any nation or racism. Who use traditional or simplified Chinese are equal participant. But everyone can has opinion. Paulliu said that traditional and simplified Chinese are all Chinese, which I agreed. And Paulliu also think traditional and simplified Chinese should be separate. However the point I concerned is our users support and free software community. So I'd like to ask, what's you guys' opinion: Does our community only limited in Taiwan or China? Do you guys agree people from over the world can be also part of Debian community? You guys prefer to do the user support together or separately, and why? Please give your valuable opinion. Kindest regards, -Andrew -- ~ Kanru Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 'v' http://stu.csie.ncnu.edu.tw/~kanru.96/ http://stu.csie.ncnu.edu.tw/%7Ekanru.96/ // \\ GnuPG-Key ID: 365CC7A2 /( )\ Fingerprint: 3278 DFB4 BB28 6E8C 9E1F 1ECB B1B7 5B5F 365C C7A2 ^`~'^ -- Best Regards, Ding Honghui -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
虽然简体和繁体的文字符号有部分差别，但是语音和语义是完全相同的。它们都是汉语。 电邮不像网页，网页的简繁合并问题就意味着必须由某一个文字系统替代另一个文字系统 进行发布，这是强迫式的，不自由的。但是电邮是由用户主导的，繁体用户发繁体邮件， 简体用户发简体邮件，既然现在 UTF-8 编码实现了简繁的混编，而且简繁文字系统之间 的交叉阅读也不存在太大问题，那么合并之后不会给用户的使用习惯带来太大伤害。而且 这样可以降低维护负担。 -- Vern 2008-05-03 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
Great! I agree. 在08-4-30，Zu [EMAIL PROTECTED] 写道： I prefer merging and I agree that traditional and simplified Chinese are all Chinese. -- Email/Gtalk/MSN/QQ: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 瑞豪开源VPS - 基于Linux/Xen http://www.RasHost.com http://www.rashost.com/ 2008/4/30 Kanru Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Andrew, I think we should respect the opinions from who are actually using the lists, so I forward this mail to the lists. 2008/4/30 Andrew Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dear folks, Foka went on IRC and ask for merge debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one mailing list. Please check the log for details or read these(I copied from my log) below: 01:56 foka 我最近有��想法：如果把 debian-chinese-big5 和 debian-chinese-gb 二合�橐唬�大家看法如何？ :-) 01:57 aguai foka: 不懂？ 01:57 paulliu [EMAIL PROTECTED]:P 01:57 paulliu aguai, 那是 mailing list 01:58 foka paulliu, [EMAIL PROTECTED] UTF-8 年代了，也不再存在以前 Big5、GB2312 �]件�y�a的���}了。 01:58 paulliu 嗯, [EMAIL PROTECTED] big5 的意思是 chinese-traditional 01:59 paulliu �m然大家都是中��人...不�^繁�w跟���w..��是��有一些���x上 的困�_.. 02:01 paulliu 不�^, debian-chinese-big5 �]有甚�N traffic 就是了.. 02:01 paulliu [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02:01 paulliu 我是�X得, 繁�w中文跟���w中文, 有�r是��分�_的... 02:02 foka 其��整�w�碚f��好；我�J�R好多台���淼呐笥眩�很快熟�R���w字 了。大��朋友看繁�w字，倒也不是���}，只是��不出�矶�已。 02:02 paulliu 是可以看的懂, 但是我自己的是...偶��要猜... 02:03 foka paulliu, 呵呵，正好互相�W��。 :-) 02:03 paulliu 也�S���w中文猜中意思的�C率是 9x%, 日文�h字 4x%.. Debian do have lists for different languages. I think it's easier for support our users. Cause they can use their mother language to ask question and got answer by the mother language. We have separately lists because long time ago, we have encoding difference problem on big5 and gb2312, so that we have two lists for Chinese. But my opinion now Debian is a global community, it is not specfic for any nation or racism. Who use traditional or simplified Chinese are equal participant. But everyone can has opinion. Paulliu said that traditional and simplified Chinese are all Chinese, which I agreed. And Paulliu also think traditional and simplified Chinese should be separate. However the point I concerned is our users support and free software community. So I'd like to ask, what's you guys' opinion: Does our community only limited in Taiwan or China? Do you guys agree people from over the world can be also part of Debian community? You guys prefer to do the user support together or separately, and why? Please give your valuable opinion. Kindest regards, -Andrew -- ~ Kanru Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'v' http://stu.csie.ncnu.edu.tw/~kanru.96/http://stu.csie.ncnu.edu.tw/%7Ekanru.96/ // \\ GnuPG-Key ID: 365CC7A2 /( )\ Fingerprint: 3278 DFB4 BB28 6E8C 9E1F 1ECB B1B7 5B5F 365C C7A2 ^`~'^ -- 以Wiki模式创建Linux中文文档，欢迎加入 http://www.linux-wiki.cn/
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 6:34 PM, wolfman.wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good idea. Agree! So do I. -- http://lovelywcm.blogspot.com
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
Hi Andrew, I think we should respect the opinions from who are actually using the lists, so I forward this mail to the lists. 2008/4/30 Andrew Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dear folks, Foka went on IRC and ask for merge debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one mailing list. Please check the log for details or read these(I copied from my log) below: 01:56 foka 我最近有個想法：如果把 debian-chinese-big5 和 debian-chinese-gb 二合為一，大家看法如何？ :-) 01:57 aguai foka: 不懂？ 01:57 paulliu 唔...為啥要做這件事??..:P 01:57 paulliu aguai, 那是兩個 mailing list 01:58 foka paulliu, 是這樣的：現在都是 UTF-8 年代了，也不再存在以前 Big5、GB2312 郵件亂碼的問題了。 01:58 paulliu 嗯, 的確...不過我是這麼想的...其實那個 big5 的意思應該是 chinese-traditional 01:59 paulliu 雖然大家都是中國人...不過繁體跟簡體..還是會有一些閱讀上 的困擾.. 02:01 paulliu 不過, debian-chinese-big5 沒有甚麼 traffic 就是了.. 02:01 paulliu 當然這只是我的看法而已啦.. 02:01 paulliu 我是覺得, 繁體中文跟簡體中文, 有時是該分開的... 02:02 foka 其實整體來說還好；我認識好多台灣來的朋友，很快熟識簡體字 了。大陸朋友看繁體字，倒也不是問題，只是寫不出來而已。 02:02 paulliu 是可以看的懂, 但是我自己的經驗是...偶爾要猜... 02:03 foka paulliu, 呵呵，正好互相學習。 :-) 02:03 paulliu 也許簡體中文猜中意思的機率是 9x%, 日文漢字 4x%.. Debian do have lists for different languages. I think it's easier for support our users. Cause they can use their mother language to ask question and got answer by the mother language. We have separately lists because long time ago, we have encoding difference problem on big5 and gb2312, so that we have two lists for Chinese. But my opinion now Debian is a global community, it is not specfic for any nation or racism. Who use traditional or simplified Chinese are equal participant. But everyone can has opinion. Paulliu said that traditional and simplified Chinese are all Chinese, which I agreed. And Paulliu also think traditional and simplified Chinese should be separate. However the point I concerned is our users support and free software community. So I'd like to ask, what's you guys' opinion: Does our community only limited in Taiwan or China? Do you guys agree people from over the world can be also part of Debian community? You guys prefer to do the user support together or separately, and why? Please give your valuable opinion. Kindest regards, -Andrew -- ~ Kanru Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'v' http://stu.csie.ncnu.edu.tw/~kanru.96/ // \\ GnuPG-Key ID: 365CC7A2 /( )\ Fingerprint: 3278 DFB4 BB28 6E8C 9E1F 1ECB B1B7 5B5F 365C C7A2 ^`~'^
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
Kanru Chen wrote: I think we should respect the opinions from who are actually using the lists, so I forward this mail to the lists. Thanks Kanru. Let's open this issue to our users who are actually using the lists. Cheers, -Andrew -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
Good idea. Agree! - Original Message - From: Andrew Lee To: Kanru Chen Cc: Debian Chinese [GB] ; Debian Chinese [Big5] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 4:21 PM Subject: Re: User support for the debian-chinese-* Kanru Chen wrote: I think we should respect the opinions from who are actually using the lists, so I forward this mail to the lists. Thanks Kanru. Let's open this issue to our users who are actually using the lists. Cheers, -Andrew -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
回复： User support for the debian-chinese-*
what do all of you mean?? Regards, InfoHunter http://www.InfoHunter.cn - 原始邮件 发件人： wolfman.wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] 收件人： Andrew Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] 抄送： debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org 已发送： 2008/4/30(周三), 下午6:34:01 主题： Re: User support for the debian-chinese-* Good idea. Agree! - Original Message - From: Andrew Lee To: Kanru Chen Cc: Debian Chinese [GB] ; Debian Chinese [Big5] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 4:21 PM Subject: Re: User support for the debian-chinese-* Kanru Chen wrote: I think we should respect the opinions from who are actually using the lists, so I forward this mail to the lists. Thanks Kanru. Let's open this issue to our users who are actually using the lists. Cheers, -Andrew -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ 雅虎邮箱，您的终生邮箱！ http://cn.mail.yahoo.com/
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
On Wed, Apr 30, 2008 at 6:34 PM, wolfman.wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good idea. Agree! 支持合并。 -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://blog.cathayan.org
Re: User support for the debian-chinese-*
I prefer merging and I agree that traditional and simplified Chinese are all Chinese. -- Email/Gtalk/MSN/QQ: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 瑞豪开源VPS - 基于Linux/Xen http://www.RasHost.com 2008/4/30 Kanru Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Andrew, I think we should respect the opinions from who are actually using the lists, so I forward this mail to the lists. 2008/4/30 Andrew Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Dear folks, Foka went on IRC and ask for merge debian-chinese-big5 and debian-chinese-gb into one mailing list. Please check the log for details or read these(I copied from my log) below: 01:56 foka 我最近有��想法：如果把 debian-chinese-big5 和 debian-chinese-gb 二合�橐唬�大家看法如何？ :-) 01:57 aguai foka: 不懂？ 01:57 paulliu [EMAIL PROTECTED]:P 01:57 paulliu aguai, 那是 mailing list 01:58 foka paulliu, [EMAIL PROTECTED] UTF-8 年代了，也不再存在以前 Big5、GB2312 �]件�y�a的���}了。 01:58 paulliu 嗯, [EMAIL PROTECTED] big5 的意思是 chinese-traditional 01:59 paulliu �m然大家都是中��人...不�^繁�w跟���w..��是��有一些���x上 的困�_.. 02:01 paulliu 不�^, debian-chinese-big5 �]有甚�N traffic 就是了.. 02:01 paulliu [EMAIL PROTECTED] 02:01 paulliu 我是�X得, 繁�w中文跟���w中文, 有�r是��分�_的... 02:02 foka 其��整�w�碚f��好；我�J�R好多台���淼呐笥眩�很快熟�R���w字 了。大��朋友看繁�w字，倒也不是���}，只是��不出�矶�已。 02:02 paulliu 是可以看的懂, 但是我自己的是...偶��要猜... 02:03 foka paulliu, 呵呵，正好互相�W��。 :-) 02:03 paulliu 也�S���w中文猜中意思的�C率是 9x%, 日文�h字 4x%.. Debian do have lists for different languages. I think it's easier for support our users. Cause they can use their mother language to ask question and got answer by the mother language. We have separately lists because long time ago, we have encoding difference problem on big5 and gb2312, so that we have two lists for Chinese. But my opinion now Debian is a global community, it is not specfic for any nation or racism. Who use traditional or simplified Chinese are equal participant. But everyone can has opinion. Paulliu said that traditional and simplified Chinese are all Chinese, which I agreed. And Paulliu also think traditional and simplified Chinese should be separate. However the point I concerned is our users support and free software community. So I'd like to ask, what's you guys' opinion: Does our community only limited in Taiwan or China? Do you guys agree people from over the world can be also part of Debian community? You guys prefer to do the user support together or separately, and why? Please give your valuable opinion. Kindest regards, -Andrew -- ~ Kanru Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'v' http://stu.csie.ncnu.edu.tw/~kanru.96/http://stu.csie.ncnu.edu.tw/%7Ekanru.96/ // \\ GnuPG-Key ID: 365CC7A2 /( )\ Fingerprint: 3278 DFB4 BB28 6E8C 9E1F 1ECB B1B7 5B5F 365C C7A2 ^`~'^
