apt-get: no instalation candidat
Hi trying to upgrade some packages apt-get fails with the msg. E: Package bigbrother has no instalation candidate Packages which fail (with this msg): bigbrother xplot xsplay xwatch my apt/source.list: # Use for a local mirror - remove the ftp1 http lines for the bits # your mirror contains. # deb file:/your/mirror/here/debian stable main contrib non-free # See sources.list(5) for more information, especial # Remember that you can only use http, ftp or file URIs deb http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US unstable non-US #deb ftp://ftp.eecs.umich.edu/debian potato main contrib non-free #deb ftp://ftp.eecs.umich.edu/debian slink main contrib non-free deb http://www.uk.debian.org/debian slink main contrib non-free deb http://www.uk.debian.org/debian potato main contrib non-free #deb http://www.de.debian.org/debian potato main contrib non-free #deb file:/mnt/hdd2/linux.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de/pub/linux/distributions/debian potato main contrib non-free non-US #deb file:/mnt/hdd2/linux.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de/pub/linux/distributions/debian slink main contrib non-free non-US -- Alexander N. Benner And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. -*- The Bible (Mark 12:29-30)
Re: how rpm does it (Re: Dpkg Update Proposal)
On Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 03:42:15PM -0800, Joey Hess wrote: | |So rpm's method of upgrading is the same as dpkg -i, whereas dpkg has nothing |equivilant to rpm's method of just installing a package. | |Oh and by the way, this user interface tends to confuse new users (at least |it did me) who accidentially install many versions of the same package |because they arn't aware they should be upgrading it instead. Because you already have the Debian way in your mind when you were using rpm. I remembered that I looked very hard to find out how to upgrade a .deb in Debian by dpkg when I first switched from Redhat to Debian, but of course I found nothing because 'dpkg -i' handles both :) |I forget how rpm allows removing of one version of a package while leaving |another version of it installed. IIRC you need to specify the version number as well. |Back end: | |I don't know much about this. I can intuit some things. | |Rpm can keep track of multiple versions of the same package that are all |installed. Presumably, this means its package database indexes the installed |packages by both package name and version, instead of just by package name |as dpkg does. | |What happens if you try to install version bar of a package while version |foo of that same package, which contains files of the same name, is |installed? Rpm will happily overwrite version foo's files. | |What happens if you then remove version foo? I'm not sure, it's been a while |;-). I can say that rpm doesn't deal with this very well. It either has to |leave version bar's files around, or delete them, either action leaves the |installed version foo in an inconsitent state. Does rpm really do this? That's very silly... |User interface: | |If we wanted to make dpkg have this capability, we could add a new command |line flag, say --keep-old-version that makes dpkg --keep-old-version -i |behave like rpm -i does. | |We would have to come up with some method to allow dpkg to remove one |version of a package while leaving another version of that package installed. I suggest that a version number must be given in this case, otherwise dpkg will just exit, saying that there are multiple versions of the same packages installed. BTW, anyone has the feeling that the Debian package management system is slower than RPM? Is it because the part in manipulating the package information databsse is not doing as good as RPM does? -- Rgds, [ E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] / ICQ UIN: C30E6 ] Anthony. [ http://icqtrack.hk.st -- Track your ICQ friend ]
Re: how rpm does it (Re: Dpkg Update Proposal)
Anthony Wong wrote: |Oh and by the way, this user interface tends to confuse new users (at least |it did me) who accidentially install many versions of the same package |because they arn't aware they should be upgrading it instead. Because you already have the Debian way in your mind when you were using rpm. I remembered that I looked very hard to find out how to upgrade a .deb in Debian by dpkg when I first switched from Redhat to Debian, but of course I found nothing because 'dpkg -i' handles both :) No. I had never used debian when I used rpm. This was um... 4 years ago? 3? something like that. I used redhat first for a year before going to debian and it took about 3 months before I cleared up this confusing point. |I forget how rpm allows removing of one version of a package while leaving |another version of it installed. IIRC you need to specify the version number as well. Ah, that makes sense. |What happens if you then remove version foo? I'm not sure, it's been a while |;-). I can say that rpm doesn't deal with this very well. It either has to |leave version bar's files around, or delete them, either action leaves the |installed version foo in an inconsitent state. Does rpm really do this? That's very silly... I think so. It has to do one or the other. As I said, it's been years since I had to deal with this.. BTW, anyone has the feeling that the Debian package management system is slower than RPM? Is it because the part in manipulating the package information databsse is not doing as good as RPM does? Debian uses a database consiting of text files, which is slower than rpm's binary database. I think it also uses significantly more memory. -- see shy jo
Re: Bug#27050 (fdutils): A cause for security concern?
I wrote: Would you say the same of daemons that run as root? Avery Pennarun writes: Coming from you, that sounds like a trick question. It isn't. My chrony package includes a daemon that runs as root. I've looked it over and don't see any holes, but I'm not a security expert. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI
Re: agreeing with the DFSG (was Re: non-free -- non-dfsg)
I think it's not necessary that a developer agree with the DFSG. It should be enough that they indicate they understand it and will abide by it in what they produce for debian. -- see shy jo
organizer wanted! (was: Debian booth at LinuxTag '99?)
It looks like a couple of us are able to attend, and most will need some place to stay. I think we need a volunteer to organize all this. Any willing to do this? Wichert. -- == This combination of bytes forms a message written to you by Wichert Akkerman. E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.wi.leidenuniv.nl/~wichert/ pgpaF5aoBFupc.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: libpam, cracklib, and slink (was Re: Release-critical...)
Previously Ben Collins wrote: Since no one else has spoken up, I will take over pam. Thanks, I was just about to offer the same thing :). Wichert. -- == This combination of bytes forms a message written to you by Wichert Akkerman. E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.wi.leidenuniv.nl/~wichert/ pgpa7oNCQPEVF.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: agreeing with the DFSG (was Re: non-free -- non-dfsg)
Joey Hess wrote: I think it's not necessary that a developer agree with the DFSG. It should be enough that they indicate they understand it and will abide by it in what they produce for debian. Yes, but OTOH, it's a little hard to fathom why someone would *want* to work on Debian if they didn't agree with at least the basic outlines of the DFSG and the Social Contract cheers -- Chris Waters [EMAIL PROTECTED] | I have a truly elegant proof of the or[EMAIL PROTECTED] | above, but it is too long to fit into http://www.dsp.net/xtifr | this .signature file.
Missing packages files
It seems that all the hamm and slink packages files, as well as those for contrib and non-free (but not main) in potato are currently missing on three mirrors I have checked today. Agggh! Bob
Re: agreeing with the DFSG (was Re: non-free -- non-dfsg)
Joey Hess wrote: I think it's not necessary that a developer agree with the DFSG. It should be enough that they indicate they understand it and will abide by it in what they produce for debian. Then, Chris Waters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, but OTOH, it's a little hard to fathom why someone would *want* to work on Debian if they didn't agree with at least the basic outlines of the DFSG and the Social Contract Of course, you're both right. Therefore, we should require that developers understand and abide by the DFSG, and let the rest take care of itself. Brian
Intent to package: bnlib
This is a multiple precision library (I assume like gpm). It's used by toba (a java compiler/jit). It's packaged and waiting to be uploaded until I see whether the packages are complete enough to compile toba. It was downloaded from ftp://skip.incog.com/pub/bnlib-1.1.tar.gz Upstream Author(s): Colin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Copyright: GPL. Please see /usr/doc/copyright/GPL for full text. Dres -- @James LewisMoss [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Blessed Be! @http://www.ioa.com/~dres | Linux is kewl! @Argue for your limitations and sure enough, they're yours. Bach
Re: Debian booth at LinuxTag '99?
Hi! Someone mentioned the youth hostel at Hochspeyer. I know it. It is rather big and Hochspeyer has railroad connection to Kaiserslautern. Maybe I can also get a car to assist Thimo with transporting if someone wants to stay in Heidelberg (we have a youth hostel too, I can't offer sleeping place, sorry). Christoph -- * Christoph Baumann * * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * * www.rzuser.uni-heidelberg.de/~cbauman1/welcome.html* * External Error : INTELLIGENCE not found !* pgpPer5NsB4It.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#27050 (fdutils): A cause for security concern?
Previously John Hasler wrote: It isn't. My chrony package includes a daemon that runs as root. I've looked it over and don't see any holes, but I'm not a security expert. Have you tried running it as another user? Wichert. -- == This combination of bytes forms a message written to you by Wichert Akkerman. E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.wi.leidenuniv.nl/~wichert/ pgpZkthCvRW1V.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian v2.1 (Slink) Deep Freeze
Previously Steve Dunham wrote: Brian White [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: pilot-link31806 pilot-link: Can't build from source This bug was filed against the 0.9.0 package and the 0.8.11 package is installed in slink. Thanks, I'll add it to my exclusion list tomorrow when I wake up. Wichert. -- == This combination of bytes forms a message written to you by Wichert Akkerman. E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.wi.leidenuniv.nl/~wichert/ pgp98DtzH9CgA.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Follow-up
Further versions of this proposal will be posted on the WWW, and the address of such revisions will be posted to both -devel and -dpkg. Please don't do this. It is not easy for everyone on these lists to access material on the WWW. From past experience with other groups, it really breaks up continuity to discuss in email a document that exists solely on WWW. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Buddha Buck [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just as the strength of the Internet is chaos, so the strength of our liberty depends upon the chaos and cacaphony of the unfettered speech the First Amendment protects. -- A.L.A. v. U.S. Dept. of Justice
Re: Missing packages files
here is what i get when doing a dpkg -S ldd [paul:~]$ dpkg -S ldd ldso: /usr/man/man1/ldd.1.gz ldso: /usr/bin/ldd tetex-base: /usr/lib/texmf/fonts/source/public/cm/olddig.mf ldso: /usr/lib/lddstub php3-doc: /usr/doc/php3-doc/html/function.hw-getchilddoccollobj.html debhelper: /usr/man/man1/dh_builddeb.1.gz php3-doc: /usr/doc/php3-doc/html/function.hw-getchilddoccoll.html debhelper: /usr/bin/dh_builddeb [paul:~]$ hope this helps. Paul On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Bob Nielsen wrote: It seems that all the hamm and slink packages files, as well as those for contrib and non-free (but not main) in potato are currently missing on three mirrors I have checked today. Agggh! Bob -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null
Re: Debian goes big business?
Ben Pfaff said: Laurent Martelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What about non-developper users ? Shouldn't they have a word to say, even if they can't or do not have the time to contribute with code ? They should have `a word to say', and they do--they can subscribe to Debian lists and give their feedback and advice, which developers are free to follow or ignore. But they do not, and should not, IMO, have the privilege of voting or otherwise setting policy. Users are not developers and shouldn't presume to be. Until they go through the procedure of registerring as a developer. Then they can presume all they want. On that note: Are there any developers in the Buffalo, NY area who would be willing to meet with me to exchange key signatures? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Buddha Buck [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just as the strength of the Internet is chaos, so the strength of our liberty depends upon the chaos and cacaphony of the unfettered speech the First Amendment protects. -- A.L.A. v. U.S. Dept. of Justice
More notes on Dpkg proposal
Okay, after discussing this with a few people on #debian, and going over email, it seems that a) I am not qualified nor familiar with dpkg internals enough to do a project such as this, and did not realize it at first and b) too much of dpkg would have to be severly hacked and re-written. So, if someone more qualified would like to take this on, please do, as it is the only thing about debian that I dislike (that's very good--i'm picky). Unfortunately, at this time I am not the person to do the job. Sorry for the inconvenience. -fantumn
faure.debian.org albert.debian.org system maintenance
faure and albert(the 2 alphas hosted at novare for debian) are being taken down for a physical move. I estimate that they will be back up in 30 minutes. Sorry for the inconveniance.
Re: Bug#27050 (fdutils): A cause for security concern?
Wichert writes: Have you tried running it [chronyd] as another user? No, but it doesn't seem too likely that a program that adjusts the system clock would work too well running as 'nobody'. It can also be an ntp server, though that is turned off in the default configuration. I looked around in the code a bit more and found a few dubious looking sprintf's. What else should I look for? I already checked for 'system' and 'execve'. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI
Re: agreeing with the DFSG (was Re: non-free -- non-dfsg)
Hi, [I am not disagreeing entirely] Joey == Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Joey I think it's not necessary that a developer agree with the Joey DFSG. It should be enough that they indicate they understand it Joey and will abide by it in what they produce for debian. Hmm. Quite, as long as they are aware that abiding may well mean refraining from internecine and recurring debate on the merits, and indeed, the validity, of the social contract and the DFSG creatre a great deal of fdriction, and may indeed run contrary to the expectations placed on Debian developers. I have hassle enough expaining and defending the concept of free software elsewhere to contemplate with equamity the prospect of having to defend it here, of all places, from a brother in the cause, of all people. manoj -- Of course, someone who knows more about this will correct me if I'm wrong, and someone who knows less will correct me if I'm right. David Palmer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
Re: packages.debian.org
On Wed, 20 Jan, 1999, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Given that from your description swish++ sounds like a general purpose indexer, which has been set up to index 'natural language' is it the best one for our purposes? Once I removed a few conditions for removing words from indexing that weren't appropriate for us, the system works quite well. The index file for the Package web pages alone is about 6.5M and indexes over 8000 files, I don't think that a simplistic search system will work very well on something this large and this popular (swish++ is very fast). Of course, this pales in comparison to what I have planned next. If I can work out a few details, I may use swish++ for searching on the mailing list archives (~1GB and 160k files). Jay Treacy
Re: agreeing with the DFSG (was Re: non-free -- non-dfsg)
Hi Steve and Manoj, Probably. I guess I just like a little more enthusiasm than I'll abide by the rules. Steve, I'm sorry I gave you that impression. I'm always talking about how great Debian is to my colleagues and always try to convince them to try and use Debian. You may not think so but I am always trying to promote Debian as a better alternative to the usual OS my colleagues use. I hope that you and everyone believe me when I say that. Manoj, please don't feel that you have you defend the DFSG and free software in general to me (was I the brother in the cause?). There really is no need. This isn't the first time my objectivity has gotten me into flame wars, although it was never my intent to start any of them. In fact, when I first started using Debian you and I had a little spat because of my objectivity. I tell you what, I do not want to cause any trouble in Debian so in the future I will try to be more careful about causing such a raucous; no more analogies and examples, or at least I'll try. Fair enough guys? If so, then let's end this thread on a good note. :) -Ossama __ Ossama Othman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 58 60 1A E8 7A 66 F4 44 74 9F 3C D4 EF BF 35 88 1024/8A04D15D 1998/08/26
Re: Developers in Cali...
Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Aaron Van Couwenberghe wrote: OK, in the past week or so I've seen several people posting from California. Has anyone thought of having a gathering in some semi-central location? Get to know faces, sign keys, etc? I would be interested. If a convenient day were picked and the meeting were held somewhere near the Bay Area (Sn Francisco, Sacramento, Oakland...) I just might be able to come. Well this is jumping the gun a bit, but I intend to do just this in a couple of weeks. I have a fair-sized mailing list (25 people, including several developers) of debianites in the CA Bay Area. One of the things I hope this group will do is help me get a debian booth at linuxworld together and staffed. I'm still waiting on confirmation of the booth, but it looks like we will get one. Once I'm sure of that, I'd like to hold a debian meeting here. The meeting would have at least 2 purposes, maybe 3: 1. Get to know one another, socialize, key sign, etc. 2. Planning for the linuxworld conference. 3. If Joseph Carter happens to win the Project Leader election, we can probably drag him down from Modesto to speak. I'm been thinking about holding it at the Coffeenet Internet Cafe in San Fransisco, a very nice cafe which has public linux machines (running redhat, but oh well.. ;-). Of course all this is tenative. If you're interested, the best thing to do is probably to get on the Bay Area Debian mailing list: echo | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm thinking of making the drive down for LinuxWorld, so maybe I'll see you guys there. :-) I'll sign up on the list so I can see what you are all planning. Cheers, - Jim
Re: Missing packages files
Well, I have ldd also, but don't see the connection. ??? Bob On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Paul McDermott wrote: here is what i get when doing a dpkg -S ldd [paul:~]$ dpkg -S ldd ldso: /usr/man/man1/ldd.1.gz ldso: /usr/bin/ldd tetex-base: /usr/lib/texmf/fonts/source/public/cm/olddig.mf ldso: /usr/lib/lddstub php3-doc: /usr/doc/php3-doc/html/function.hw-getchilddoccollobj.html debhelper: /usr/man/man1/dh_builddeb.1.gz php3-doc: /usr/doc/php3-doc/html/function.hw-getchilddoccoll.html debhelper: /usr/bin/dh_builddeb [paul:~]$ hope this helps. Paul On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Bob Nielsen wrote: It seems that all the hamm and slink packages files, as well as those for contrib and non-free (but not main) in potato are currently missing on three mirrors I have checked today. Agggh! Bob -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bob Nielsen Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tucson, AZ AMPRnet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DM42nh http://www.primenet.com/~nielsen
RE: possible debian cluster
Barak, I have setup a cluster of alphas (PC164LX 533Mhz). I maintain the darn thing also. I do not want the job, but as I found it hard to get ANYONE running an alpha beowulf cluster to help me, I offer my assitance whenever possible. I run Debian on the cluster and would not use anything else. Basically we have a service node where all processes are started and compiled, and 16 compute nodes. I use rsync to keep things inline. Good luck, Lon On 20-Jan-99 Barak Pearlmutter wrote: It looks like a big Linux Beowulf cluster kind of thing is going to be built here at UNM. Hundreds of CPUs, at least. I'd like to convince them to use Debian and 21264s, but that's up in the air. One big issue is finding someone good who could be in charge of systems software for the beast. So, if some Debian developer is - competent to handle the networking setup benchmarking, PVM, etc - potentially desirous of a job doing said - in Albuquerque New Mexico please drop me a line, as it might result in (1) a job, and (2) a big cluster running Debian. BTW, a cluster of 256 dual-CPU 21264s with a fast disk farm all connected to the national high-speed supercomputer networks could recompile a lot of packages quite quickly. -- Barak A. Pearlmutter [EMAIL PROTECTED], http://www.cs.unm.edu/~bap/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] === Lonnie Sauter http://www.math.ukans.edu/~sauter 315 Snow Hall University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045 fax (785)864-5255 ===
Re: Dpkg Update Proposal
On Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 04:03:26PM -0500, fantumn Steven Baker wrote: Package Naming Scheme The problem is superficial. Sure, names should be more uniform, but all this requires is 1) ratifying naming standards and 2) ensuring that the packaging system handles name changes gracefully. CVS Someone else explained that this is a non-problem, unless we're misunderstanding you. My solution, after long thought and working out, is to simply modify the Debian Package Management system to allow multiple versions of packages to be installed. RPM, as others have noticed, does this. Having considerable experience with RPM (I'm not proud of this), I'd like to offer my thoughts. First, technically, RPM handles it cleanly. In fact, it does not distinguish the case of two versions of the same package from the case of two unrelated packages. Two packages may share a file if the versions from the two packages are the same (by checksum). A file owned by multiple packages is not deleted until the last package owning it is removed. If you try to install a package with a file owned by an installed package, and the versions of the file are different, rpm returns an error. If you override, the new package gains sole ownership of the file. If you delete this new package, the file is deleted, since it's (only) owner is gone. The last behavior is perfectly consistent, yet horribly wrong to the user. Due to this, RPM support for installing multiple versions of the same package is largely illusory. Different versions of a package typically contain different versions of the same files (libraries are often an exception), and the package system can't reconcile this. So, the ability to have multiple versions of the same package installed is only useful if the packager has ensured that file ownership conflicts do not occur. RPM offers no way to advertise that different versions of the package can coexist. In the dpkg mindset, if the packager has gone through this trouble, he should simply release the package with a different name (eg, the ncftp packages, and hopefully the perl packages soon :) ). This makes it fairly obvious that the two versions can coexist. I find this far preferable to offering pseudo-support for multiple versions of the same package (the sort of half-solution that makes RPM such a muddled mess). Of course, we would like to have the best of both worlds: the notion that two packages really are the same packages (simplifying upgrades and dependancies), but that they can coexist. I don't know dpkg deeply, but I believe that the facilities for this exist or can be added tastefully. There are two approaches: either fork a separate package name and add headers that indicate it is an upgrade to the original package; or keep the package name the same and add a header that indicates it is a coexist-able variant. The second may seem more desirable at first glance, but it would confuse existing tools, and I bet equally nice front ends could be written for either, so I believe the first route holds more promise in the short term. Anyway, this requires more thought, and since many people have been thinking about dpkg more than I, I'll defer now. The point is, supporting multiple versions of the same package is a nice enough idea, but it's really not too far from what we already have. Andrew -- It's like a love-hate relationship, without the love - Jamie Zawinski, consummate UNIX hater, on Linux
Re: pseudo package for upgrades from hamm
Martin A. Soto wrote: RANT MODE Many, *many* people has proposed this idea before. So many, that you would be tempted to consider it a simple, natural, and straightforward idea. Nonetheless, it seems that this far, it has been impossible to make it part of dpkg, or even to start working on the necessary modifications for that purpose. I don't think anyone's filed that particular idea as a wishlist bug against dpkg yet. I plan to. If you want to start, there's nothing stopping you, except your own inability to figure out other people's code (this is actually a serious problem for most of us mere mortals :) If you're serious, you'll probably want to join the debian-dpkg@lists.debian.org mailing list (hmmm, very hypocritical of me - I'll have to remember to subscribe myself :) The list of bugs against dpkg grows almost daily Hmmm, we're up to 388. Critical: 1 Grave: 6 Important: 8 Normal: 256 Wishlist: 66 Fixed: 49 Normal done: 1 Fixed done: 1 It seems a few people are actually going through the bug list and closing bugs that have been fixed or shouldn't be there. I've done that to a few of the more superfluous dpkg bugs recently myself. I encourage you to do the same. :) while the very few people who are blessed to touch the source code continue to be too buzzy to work on it. From what I've heard, Klee Dienes has dropped off the face of the earth, and Ian Jackson has had to put dpkg aside this year to concentrate on being leader. I think I remember him saying sometime that he plans to start hacking on dpkg again after his replacement takes office. So, the gist of that is that dpkg has been left for dead (well, NMU hell anyway) for a full year and there hasn't been *that* many complaints. Just no new features. Opening the development model for dpkg would be a great way to overcome this sad situation, but it seems that us, poor mortal Debian maintainers, are not considered good enough for taking care of the central and most important tool in our project. What tangible changes are you suggesting? Anyone can currently submit dpkg patches to the BTS, and if they want to handle the flames, any developer can do a NMU of dpkg. I think the problem is the lack of people that really *really* understand the dpkg source, and there's no way for Ian to just fix that. -- Robert Woodcock - [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's like a love-hate relationship, but without the love. -- jwz, on linux
Re: Missing packages files
It must have been a temporary glitch, the files are now available. Bob On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Bob Nielsen wrote: It seems that all the hamm and slink packages files, as well as those for contrib and non-free (but not main) in potato are currently missing on three mirrors I have checked today. Agggh! Bob -- Unsubscribe? mail -s unsubscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null Bob Nielsen Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tucson, AZ AMPRnet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] DM42nh http://www.primenet.com/~nielsen
Re: What happened to hwclock?
On Thu, Jan 07, 1999 at 05:45:42PM +0530, Bruce Jackson wrote: util-linux_2.9g-0.3.deb from potato is missing hwclock. The man page and packages file claim it is there. Any idea where it went to? [EMAIL PROTECTED] ..~$ dpkg -S hich hwclock util-linux: /sbin/hwclock [EMAIL PROTECTED] ..~$ dpkg -l util-linux Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) ||/ NameVersionDescription +++-===-==- ii util-linux 2.9g-3 Miscellaneous system utilities. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ..~$ Sorry about some of the characters being messed up, joe doesn't take backticks nicely for some reason. Anyway, it's showing up for me. -- ..Aaron Van Couwenberghe... [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Berlin: http://www.berlin-consortium.org Debian GNU/Linux: http://www.debian.org Nullum magnum ingenium sine mixtura dementiae fuit. -- Seneca
Re: agreeing with the DFSG (was Re: non-free -- non-dfsg)
On Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 12:38:26PM -0600, Ossama Othman wrote: It is amazing how people so are ready to snap at something that isn't as bad as they make it seem. Please don't start quoting what I said. I know what I said and I know what I meant. You are taking what I said way out of context and taking it too literally. Rather then ask me what exactly I meant you chose to lash out me. Please don't start quoting what [you] said? Are you on drugs? [You] know what [you] said So do we. [You] know what [you] meant. Ah. That, no one else knows. We must rely upon your facility with the English language to communicate your ideas a manner that properly conveys your meaning. Clearly you are having trouble with that. Manoj, Marcus, myself, and other members of the Debian community are likely all growing tired of your rhetorical games. You say something outrageous, like, let's assume we all live in a police state. Then when someone takes you to task for presenting hypotheticals that are destructive to the concept of analogy, you simply backpedal and claim you were quoted out of context. You seem content to argue for the sake of argument with anyone who dares who dares disagree with you. This is much closer to ideological Stalinism than anything you could reasonably accuse the Debian Project of. Let's not assume we all live in a police state, okay? Debian is a volunteer organization. There is absolutely no way anyone is required to be a member or abide by our rules in any context outside of Debian itself. Even the Debian *Constitution*, for crying out loud, explicitly states that it places no burden upon any member of Debian to do anything at all. Debian is not a catch-all for people who don't Red Hat, or some other Linux distribution. Debian predates most of the Linux distributions in existence, having been founded in 1993, and is about something. It's about the ideals presented in our social contract. No one demands that you, as an individual human being with rights, accept the Debian social contract in any way, shape or form. Keep in mind, however, that the social contract is a *contract*, and thus implies an exchange. In a free society, contracts are drawn up between parties who seek to trade things of value among each other. This implies mutual benefit, mutual gain. If you don't like the contract, you don't have to be a party to it. That means, however, that you don't get the benefits. The benefits of belonging to Debian are that you have the opportunity to contribute to our project. You have the right to create Debian packages. You get the right to have an account on master.debian.org and an email account. Perhaps most importantly, you get to belong to a movement, however small, that would make the world a little better place, in that strange little niche called computer software. For some Debian developers, all of these benefits are just perks. They just want to be left in peace to develop software, hack, keep machines running, or otherwise please their muse. They see that the DFSG and the social contract are not in conflict with that, they have no fundamental problem with the documents, and they go about doing what makes them happy. No one loses. There are many ways you can accounts on machines, an electronic mailbox, and make the world a better place. You can volunteer your free time to a dizzying array of other causes. If you want to be a part of Debian, though, you do give up a little bit of absolute liberty. This is true of all social contracts. Most people are willing to give absolute liberty to maim and kill their fellow man in exchange for the protection of their neighbors. (Sometimes, they get to indulge their animal natures anyway by maiming and killing as a member of some sactioned armed forces, but I digress...) Debian is not the bottom of the Linux distribution seive. We're not here to catch all the fuck-offs and misfits who couldn't cut it anywhere else. The fact that we're a lot more easygoing that many groups of software developers doesn't mean we have no standards at all. In fact, as you've noticed, when it comes to certain ideological principles, we're a lot more coherent than our rivals. If you want to change Debian, that's fine. Debian changes all the time, sometimes in pretty important ways. You can be a part of that process. But first you have to make up your mind that Debian is already close enough to what you want to see that it's worth it to you to work within its system. If not, there may be some other group that better approximates your ideals, or you may have to start from scratch. We are not all promised an obedient horde of followers from birth. Here's another couple of analogies for you. Debian is a boat with many oars in the water. You and I are just one oar. If no one else wants to paddle, I can't accomplish much by myself. Here's a better one. Debian is inertial. To change its velocity, you have to apply force.
COLA
Does anyone know how to place an announcement on cola (or whatever is en vogue nowadays) with having news access? I want to publish what I have so far on my trashcan suite before I completely run out of time. Michael -- Michael Meskes | Go SF 49ers! Th.-Heuss-Str. 61, D-41812 Erkelenz| Go Rhein Fire! Tel.: (+49) 2431/72651 | Use Debian GNU/Linux! Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Use PostgreSQL!
faure, albert, etc
Sorry for the late follow up, but faure and albert are back up, and have been for several hours. There were no problems. Adam
Re: pseudo package for upgrades from hamm
Le Thu, Jan 21, 1999 at 04:48:04AM -, Robert Woodcock écrivait: So, the gist of that is that dpkg has been left for dead (well, NMU hell anyway) for a full year and there hasn't been *that* many complaints. Just no new features. I don't agree. I don't want to blame anybody since i'am not yet able to correct C programs, but dpkg need to be worked on. I'm french and i've set LC_ALL=fr_FR, you can't imagine how many times I had a dpkg core dump because of this (it's reported many times in the BTS). Now every time I do an upgrade, i use : LC_ALL=C apt-get upgrade And this is *very* inconvenient. Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog 0C4CABF1 http://prope.insa-lyon.fr/~rhertzog/
Re: Resolutions to comments on LSB-FHS-TS_SPEC_V1.0
On Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 10:18:07AM -0500, Erik Troan wrote: On 20 Jan 1999, Daniel Quinlan wrote: 1. totally revert, drop /var/mail, and specify /var/spool/mail 2. partially revert, /var/spool/mail is a directory and /var/mail must be a symbolic link to it 3. allow a /var/spool/mail directory, provided that /var/mail is a symbolic link to it 4. allow either /var/spool/mail or /var/mail to be a directory, provided that the other is a symbolic link to it. Who will #1 affect? Does anyone use /var/mail? If we allow both things to exist, then all distribution will have to ship with a symlink from the other directory in the future. If we just stay with /var/spool/mail, anyone can just add a symlink from /var/mail, if there is a _local_ need to have this compatibility with e.g. Solaris boxes. I don't see any reason for a standardization project to move people from having one standard dir to allow for two possible paths. /var/spool/mail is the default path and any admin can symlink other dirs to it or move it somewhere else. If you want to move this dir and don't want to make a symlink from /var/spool/mail to a new dir, you must do 2 things: - the configuration from the prog who receives email and stores it on the local disk (e.g. /etc/sendmail.cf and the way it calls procmail) - all MUAs should use the environment variable MAIL. So setting this in the login scripts (like e.g. /etc/profile) should be enough. (If not, the user prog is buggy and should be fixed. That shouldn't add much code anyway.) So the mechanisms already allow for an easy change of the default mail spool. Why should Linux then come with a default of already 2 different dirs? Another point against having two dirs: Configure scripts often have a list of directories they search for and use the first dir they find. If you compile new progs and have /var/mail as a symlink to /var/spool/mail, /var/mail gets hardcoded and you are never able to remove that symlink again. That's the wrong direction to go. Sorry for writing the same several times again. Since I have moved from /var/spool/mail to /var/mail and back again, I know what's it like and I know that having only one dir instead is more sane/clean than several ones. Florian La Roche P.S.: I'd like Linux to move on with making things even more sane in the future. E.g. I liked Red Hats move to only have /usr/sbin/sendmail and no /usr/lib/sendmail. They need to go through all progs and see if they do search for /usr/sbin/sendmail correctly. I think this was done too early and I personally still like to have a symlink from /usr/lib/sendmail on my machines. I just want to use this example to show that Linux distributions can move people to even more clean and sane setups. Adding backwards compatible symlinks is easy. Going through all progs and fix them is work and I hope that standardization projects don't hinder such things. The FHS was very good for Linux, but we cannot stop and freeze everything now.
Re: Resolutions to comments on LSB-FHS-TS_SPEC_V1.0
I agree. I also don't think it's a big deal. What's important is that all of the MUA's get compiled so that they look for the mail spool in /var/mail. If /var/mail is a symlink to /var/spool/mail, or /u3/mail, or something else --- that's fine. Adding that symlink can be done easily by the admin of a machine. Why do you already want to do it on the distribution level? I'd either want the standard to move everything to /var/mail and abandom /var/spool/mail or to keep with /var/spool/mail. The move to /var/mail would take some time for the Linux community until it is finished. The end result would be that (just like now with /var/mail) some admins will add a link from /var/spool/mail to the new /var/mail to be compatible with old Linux systems or DEC machines. So the move to /var/mail will get us some confusion in the Linux community and at the end we will have the same situation as now: some admins will have to add a compatibility symlink. We achieved nothing... Please think about it and stay with /var/spool/mail. Florian La Roche
Re: COLA
On Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 20:56:52 +0100, Michael Meskes wrote: Does anyone know how to place an announcement on cola (or whatever is en vogue nowadays) with having news access? Quoting the sig on COLAs: Send submissions for comp.os.linux.announce to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] HTH, Ray -- POPULATION EXPLOSION Unique in human experience, an event which happened yesterday but which everyone swears won't happen until tomorrow. - The Hipcrime Vocab by Chad C. Mulligan
Re: Resolutions to comments on LSB-FHS-TS_SPEC_V1.0
I agree. I also don't think it's a big deal. What's important is that all of the MUA's get compiled so that they look for the mail spool in /var/mail. If /var/mail is a symlink to /var/spool/mail, or /u3/mail, or something else --- that's fine. Adding that symlink can be done easily by the admin of a machine. Why do you already want to do it on the distribution level? I'd either want the standard to move everything to /var/mail and abandom /var/spool/mail or to keep with /var/spool/mail. For interoperability reasons. It is not good if people can't use binaries or scripts from another distribution. The move to /var/mail would take some time for the Linux community until it is finished. The end result would be that (just like now with /var/mail) some admins will add a link from /var/spool/mail to the new /var/mail to be compatible with old Linux systems or DEC machines. So the move to /var/mail will get us some confusion in the Linux community and at the end we will have the same situation as now: some admins will have to add a compatibility symlink. We achieved nothing... Please think about it and stay with /var/spool/mail. -hpa
Re: Resolutions to comments on LSB-FHS-TS_SPEC_V1.0
Please think about it and stay with /var/spool/mail. Right now, /var/mail and /var/spool/mail both suffer the same problem: whichever is used, some people need to use the other, hence it is a *requirement* that both can be used by programs. Given that, it is better to use /var/mail, because the mail inbox directory is *not* a spool (a daemon transshipment point -- the mail *spool* is /var/spool/mqueue.) Putting it under /var/spool causes disk space management problems. -hpa
Re: Resolutions to comments on LSB-FHS-TS_SPEC_V1.0
On Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 11:53:32PM -0800, H. Peter Anvin wrote: Please think about it and stay with /var/spool/mail. Right now, /var/mail and /var/spool/mail both suffer the same problem: whichever is used, some people need to use the other, hence it is a *requirement* that both can be used by programs. If think that /var/spool should indicate that the data can grow very large. That is the case for mail and so /var/spool to not too wrong. It is fact that Linux distributions currently only use /var/spool/mail. Given that, it is better to use /var/mail, because the mail inbox directory is *not* a spool (a daemon transshipment point -- the mail *spool* is /var/spool/mqueue.) Putting it under /var/spool causes But the real spool dir shouldn't matter for this standard. The MTA should be free to use another dir than /var/spool/mqueue/. That's just what sendmail uses. disk space management problems. It is normal admin work to symlink a dir to another partition if you have the need for it. Update progs should be smart enough to handel this. I fail to see why /var/mail should be superior from a technical standpoint. Can you explain why /var/spool/mail is worse than /var/mail for any disk space management problems? If you'd said that Solaris uses /var/mail and maybe other documents use this as the standard mail spool, then I'd says yes: If we currently had all distributions use /var/mail, I'd see no reason to move to /var/spool/mail. I can also see some points why /var/mail would be a better standard point if we would make a new decision about this. But Linux has a large user base now and after the move from /var/spool/mail to /var/mail, we would not have gained a lot. So why do it? There are reasons why all distributions stayed with /var/spool/mail. Even Debian who also thinks a lot about making things sane/clean has stayed with /var/spool/mail. This standardization project should be documenting the current state and the current movement. This will bring the Linux distributions together and manifest the (global) movement to a standard Linux system. I don't see any reason this project should dictate completely new things to the different Linux distributions. They already do their best to improve it. Florian La Roche
Re: Where does 'www-data' come from?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED] you write: On Wed, 20 Jan, 1999, Brian May wrote: Maybe the web files should be owned by www-data and the web process should be owned by www or httpd? This way the descriptive names continue to make sense. Practical speaking, it is probably just as good to make web files owned by root, however, then the name www-data won't be the owner of any data. Would not work, the users on my machine who are aloud to edit the web pages are members of the www-data group, do you suggest I make them members of root? I think you are confused... I suggested two ideas (I will present groups and users in user:group format to prevent further confusion): 1. web files owned by www-data:www-data (ie no group change), and the web process executed by www:www (for instance). There is no need for users to be members of root. This would require an extra UID and GID. 2. I was thinking that it would be even simpler to make web files owned by root:www-data (ie still no group change), as I consider groups to be completely seperate to users, and this makes less users to maintain. This would have the advantage that the webserver could still be executed by www-data:root (although it might be confusing because this www-data would access the data and not own it). It isn't as obvious as 1. above though as GID!=UID. Having the web server owned by a different user and group to that of the files is so that if somebody breaks into the server (eg via a buggy CGI script) they cannot tamper with the web files.
Re: Where does 'www-data' come from?
On Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 08:35:23PM +, Edward Betts wrote: On Wed, 20 Jan, 1999, Brian May wrote: Maybe the web files should be owned by www-data and the web process should be owned by www or httpd? This way the descriptive names continue to make sense. Practical speaking, it is probably just as good to make web files owned by root, however, then the name www-data won't be the owner of any data. Would not work, the users on my machine who are aloud to edit the web pages are members of the www-data group, do you suggest I make them members of root? No need. Just create a new group and chgrp the files, setgid the directories etc. I have all the web page people here in a group web, and all the files in /var/web are in the appropriate group. (We used to have the standard documentroot in /var/web IIRC, and I've just created subdirectories for each virtual server instead). Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt VK3TYD [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Debian packages at ftp://ftp.rising.com.au/pub/hamish. PGP#EFA6B9D5 CCs of replies from mailing lists are welcome. http://hamish.home.ml.org
Re: Where does 'www-data' come from?
On Thu, Jan 21, 1999 at 07:36:43PM +1100, Brian May wrote: 1. web files owned by www-data:www-data (ie no group change), and the web process executed by www:www (for instance). There is no need for users to be members of root. This would require an extra UID and GID. But this won't allow regular users to change the web files either? 2. I was thinking that it would be even simpler to make web files owned by root:www-data (ie still no group change), as I consider groups to be completely seperate to users, and this makes less users to maintain. This would have the advantage that the webserver could still be executed by www-data:root (although it might be confusing because this www-data would access the data and not own it). It isn't as obvious as 1. above though as GID!=UID. I just use whateverusercreatedthefile.web here. Web server runs as www-data.www-data. Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt VK3TYD [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Debian packages at ftp://ftp.rising.com.au/pub/hamish. PGP#EFA6B9D5 CCs of replies from mailing lists are welcome. http://hamish.home.ml.org
Re: Dpkg Update Proposal
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Andrew Pimlott wrote: ... Hmmm, would the concept of meta-packages and a scheme for sharing common files (like the RH one described?) work. Packages could have their name extended with the version: foo_1.2.3-1 - foo_1.2.3 foo_1.2.3-2 - foo_1.2.3 foo_1.2.4-1 - foo_1.2.4 and if the above were installed, dpkg -l foo would list foo_1.2.3 and foo_1.2.4, other packages could depend on either the meta-package foo or a specific foo_x.y.z (range). Hmmm, how would you handle the names of the executables if you had multiple versions of the same software on the system. Fooex123 and fooex124, then let the user sort it out; or would it be better to have the environment or a wrapper set up so that fooex gets you either fooex123 or fooex124, which ever was choosen as the default version of foo. Interesting problem creating a chimera with rpm's version handling and dpkg's package management. later, Bruce
Intent to package rolldice, blackjack
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- rolldice is a virtual dice roller that takes in a string on the command line in the format used by some fantasy role playing games like Advanced Dungeons Dragons[1] and returns the result of the dice rolls. blackjack is a *very* simple blackjack game, which implements the basic features of the game. It will be expanded in the future, when its programmer (me :) gets more time to work on it. Both of these will be uploaded as soon as I become a developer. If you want to try out either, they should be available at: ftp://ftp.computersprache.net/pub which is, incidentally, where the source for each is available, as well... The application for becoming a developer has already been sent in, just awaiting approval :) Stevie [1] Advanced Dungeons Dragons is a registered trademark of TSR, Inc. - -- Stevie Strickland (PGP ID = 23A6D909) 325912 Georgia Tech Station [EMAIL PROTECTED] Georgia Institute of Technology http://computersprache.net/~sstricklAtlanta, GA 30332 PGP Key fingerprint = 84 52 C7 EA E6 DB A1 C5 6A C9 D6 B9 88 26 74 FC -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNqbtnIXKvMsjptkJAQGdDgP9Fqop6b8Ql7tmFCyU14DnRlwnzuLcWFFg hUK3LaYc2lLpaxWFMy0hiwoOXGHv5YQyYYIpRzLlmyvtebCrmAcKCEKs21E63PYX cbE6cxHCM/Bz2LQWSDamETVQ66AM8mZ7930Y2Gl5aFQipRVTer3M8qh5l3bZZkEi tOH0AiAvj3o= =rC3a -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Intent to package rolldice, blackjack
On Thu, Jan 21, 1999 at 04:04:20AM -0500, Stevie Strickland wrote: rolldice is a virtual dice roller that takes in a string on the command line in the format used by some fantasy role playing games like Advanced Dungeons Dragons[1] and returns the result of the dice rolls. Just wondering, what's the output like and does it return for d10 0-9 or 1-10? Does it handle d%? Is the number of dice optional or must one feed it 1d8 for example? Does it return the results of each die or the total rolled or both? Can you give it something like 2d8 d12 3d6 and get a nice formatted output? Am I asking too many questions? = -- I'm working in the dark here. Yeah well rumor has it you do your best work in the dark. -- Earth: Final Conflict
Re: Intent to package rolldice, blackjack
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- rolldice is a virtual dice roller that takes in a string on the command line in the format used by some fantasy role playing games like Advanced Dungeons Dragons[1] and returns the result of the dice rolls. [1] Advanced Dungeons Dragons is a registered trademark of TSR, Inc. Is the trademark still held in TSR's name? Or is ADD a registered trademark of Wizards of the Coast? -- Buddha Buck [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just as the strength of the Internet is chaos, so the strength of our liberty depends upon the chaos and cacaphony of the unfettered speech the First Amendment protects. -- A.L.A. v. U.S. Dept. of Justice
Re: libpam, cracklib, and slink (was Re: Release-critical...)
On Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 10:31:57AM -0500, Ben Collins wrote: Since no one else has spoken up, I will take over pam. I will also look How do you know? You waited just 4 hours before drawing that conclusion. Isn't this a bit early? I mean, not everybody has an RJ45 jack implanted in one's body.
Re: libpam, cracklib, and slink (was Re: Release-critical...)
Thomas == Thomas Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thomas How do you know? You waited just 4 hours before drawing that Thomas conclusion. Isn't this a bit early? I mean, not everybody has Thomas an RJ45 jack implanted in one's body. Thankfully enough of us do, including the person who's been NMUing PAM all this time, and some others interested in adopting it. All are on IRC. But if you're going to be wired, I recommend fiber -- its lighter. netgod - irc.us.openprojects.net irc.eu.openprojects.net irc.au.openprojects.net irc.debian.org irc.redhat.com irc.linux.org irc.freshmeat.net Open Source, Open Technology, Open Information
Re: Resolutions to comments on LSB-FHS-TS_SPEC_V1.0
Sorry for writing the same several times again. Since I have moved from /var/spool/mail to /var/mail and back again, I know what's it like and I know that having only one dir instead is more sane/clean than several ones. well, I tend to agree here. I moved to /var/mail and added a symlink but basically, it's ugly. it does work, but if I take a close look at my current filesystem, it's symlink galore all over the place. -- Grobbebol's Home | Don't give in to spammers. -o) http://www.xs4all.nl/~bengel | Use your real e-mail address /\ Linux 2.0.36 on an i586/64 MB |on Usenet. _\_v
Re: libpam, cracklib, and slink (was Re: Release-critical...)
On Thu, Jan 21, 1999 at 09:48:33AM +0100, Thomas Adams wrote: On Wed, Jan 20, 1999 at 10:31:57AM -0500, Ben Collins wrote: Since no one else has spoken up, I will take over pam. I will also look How do you know? You waited just 4 hours before drawing that conclusion. Isn't this a bit early? I mean, not everybody has an RJ45 jack implanted in one's body. I waited overnight. Plus the email that said it was orphaned went out well before I replied. -- --- - - --- - - - --- Ben Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian GNU/Linux UnixGroup Admin - Jordan Systems Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- - - - --- --- -- The Choice of the GNU Generation
Re: libpam, cracklib, and slink (was Re: Release-critical...)
On Thu, Jan 21, 1999 at 06:49:43AM -0500, Johnie Ingram wrote: Thomas How do you know? You waited just 4 hours before drawing that Thomas conclusion. Isn't this a bit early? I mean, not everybody has Thomas an RJ45 jack implanted in one's body. Thankfully enough of us do, including the person who's been NMUing PAM all this time, and some others interested in adopting it. All are on IRC. But if you're going to be wired, I recommend fiber -- its lighter. I'll wait for affordable wireless. ; -- I'm working in the dark here. Yeah well rumor has it you do your best work in the dark. -- Earth: Final Conflict
Re: Bug#27050 (fdutils): A cause for security concern?
Previously John Hasler wrote: I looked around in the code a bit more and found a few dubious looking sprintf's. What else should I look for? I already checked for 'system' and 'execve'. Please do so. If you don't feel confident enough you can submit it to the security team. We'll take a look at it if/when we can find the time then. Wichet. -- == This combination of bytes forms a message written to you by Wichert Akkerman. E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.wi.leidenuniv.nl/~wichert/ pgpdkAZtXzu8d.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Resolutions to comments on LSB-FHS-TS_SPEC_V1.0
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:53:32 -0800 (PST), H. Peter Anvin wrote: Given that, it is better to use /var/mail, because the mail inbox directory is *not* a spool (a daemon transshipment point -- the mail *spool* is /var/spool/mqueue.) Putting it under /var/spool causes disk space management problems. But mine is. My mail spools there until I collect it via fetchmail. This is exactly the process of outgoing mail spooling in /var/spool/mqueue in reverse. -- Bryan C. Andregg * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Red Hat Software Gee, I'm glad you're around to tell me the almighty-truth[tm]. -- Patrick J. Volkerding
Re: Resolutions to comments on LSB-FHS-TS_SPEC_V1.0
On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Florian La Roche wrote: There are reasons why all distributions stayed with /var/spool/mail. Even Debian who also thinks a lot about making things sane/clean has stayed with /var/spool/mail. Note that Debian has not yet moved from FSSTND to FHS for the most part, and relocating /var/spool/mail hasn't been done in part due to discussion on the technical issues involved.
mc bug? or i've not read the manuals
Hello, So, if you have a script with a setuid flag after you edit+save it in mc's editor the flag will dissapear... I dont know, but i think it's a bug. Let me know if it is, and i'll report it. Regards, Tibor -- =[ IntegraNET ]===[ Internet Service Provider Corporation ]= [ Koleszr Tibor - System engineer ] [ E-mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Re: Resolutions to comments on LSB-FHS-TS_SPEC_V1.0
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, H. Peter Anvin wrote: Given that, it is better to use /var/mail, because the mail inbox directory is *not* a spool (a daemon transshipment point -- the mail *spool* is /var/spool/mqueue.) Putting it under /var/spool causes disk space management problems. Moving it on running systems is an nightmare, and there is simply no compelling reason to do so, imho. Erik --- | For the next two hours, VH1 will be filled with foul-mouthed,| | crossdressing Australians. Viewer discretion is advised. | | | | Linux Application Development -- http://www.redhat.com/~johnsonm/lad|
Re: how rpm does it (Re: Dpkg Update Proposal)
Hi! Joey Hess writes: JH What happens if you try to install version bar of a package while JH version foo of that same package, which contains files of the JH same name, is installed? Rpm will happily overwrite version foo's JH files. Yes. JH What happens if you then remove version foo? I'm not sure, it's JH been a while ;-). It deletes all the files that belong to version foo. If they overlap with the contents of another package (or a newer package), then rpm will happily delete the overlapping files, too. Yes, this causes people grief. Yes, dpkg is better in this regard. -- Gordon Matzigkeit [EMAIL PROTECTED] //\ I'm a FIG (http://www.fig.org/) Lovers of freedom, unite! \// I use GNU (http://www.gnu.org/) [Unfortunately, www.fig.org is broken. Please stay tuned for details.]
Re: mc bug? or i've not read the manuals
On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Tibor Koleszar wrote: Hello, So, if you have a script with a setuid flag after you edit+save it in mc's editor the flag will dissapear... I dont know, but i think it's a bug. Let me know if it is, and i'll report it. i've observed the same thing in emacs. Presumably it's an OS level safety feature. (Seems sensible to me) Jules /+---+-\ | Jelibean aka | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | 6 Evelyn Rd| | Jules aka | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Richmond, Surrey | | Julian Bean | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| TW9 2TF *UK* | ++---+-+ | War doesn't demonstrate who's right... just who's left. | | When privacy is outlawed... only the outlaws have privacy. | \--/
Re: packages.debian.org
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, James A. Treacy wrote: On Wed, 20 Jan, 1999, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Given that from your description swish++ sounds like a general purpose indexer, which has been set up to index 'natural language' is it the best one for our purposes? Once I removed a few conditions for removing words from indexing that weren't appropriate for us, the system works quite well. Excellent. In that case, my objection has no substance. The index file for the Package web pages alone is about 6.5M and indexes over 8000 files, I don't think that a simplistic search system will work very well on something this large and this popular (swish++ is very fast). Of course, this pales in comparison to what I have planned next. If I can work out a few details, I may use swish++ for searching on the mailing list archives (~1GB and 160k files). Of course, that *is* the kind of thing swish++ is designed for, so I can hardly criticise that. Jules /+---+-\ | Jelibean aka | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | 6 Evelyn Rd| | Jules aka | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Richmond, Surrey | | Julian Bean | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| TW9 2TF *UK* | ++---+-+ | War doesn't demonstrate who's right... just who's left. | | When privacy is outlawed... only the outlaws have privacy. | \--/
Re: LSB?
In [EMAIL PROTECTED] Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Last I heard the LSB list was closed to the general public, though archives were available. Is this still the case? If the LSB project now welcomes outsiders to work with the project, great. Otherwise I'm concerned doing that would be in vain. (I'm not a debian developer, so maybe I should keep my nose out of this, but...) To the best of my knowledge, the LSB lists have never been *closed* to the general public. I have been subscribed to them for months, and I found out about them by reading /., debian-devel, and looking at a few web pages. I have to admit that the LSB lists aren't the most exciting lists, and I often leave the unread for several weeks, before I skim through them. Still, I find them interesting enough to keep subscribed. If you want me to, I can go do your research for you and point you to the info about subscribing -wayne -- Wayne Schlitt can not assert the truth of all statements in this article and still be consistent.
Re: Resolutions to comments on LSB-FHS-TS_SPEC_V1.0
Florian La Roche wrote: I can also see some points why /var/mail would be a better standard point if we would make a new decision about this. But Linux has a large user base now and after the move from /var/spool/mail to /var/mail, we would not have gained a lot. So why do it? There are reasons why all distributions stayed with /var/spool/mail. Even Debian who also thinks a lot about making things sane/clean has stayed with /var/spool/mail. This standardization project should be documenting the current state and the current movement. This will bring the Linux distributions together and manifest the (global) movement to a standard Linux system. I don't see any reason this project should dictate completely new things to the different Linux distributions. They already do their best to improve it. I thought the purpose of this project (at least the FHS) is to create a standard of what the filesystem should look like, not necessarily what it currently looks like. Just because `Everyone is doing it' (tm) doesn't mean it's right. Personally, I want Linux to be clean and elegant in its implementation, so if that means breaking from convention and putting mail in /var/mail, so be it. I for one don't know the answer. Whatever the answer is should be the right one, not just the one people are doing. Gordon Tetlow
Re: libpam, cracklib, and slink (was Re: Release-critical...)
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Ben Collins wrote: Ok, after looking at this, I've decided that the cracklib support for PAM would be best handled by having it in a seperate package. I want to propose a naming scheme for module packages for PAM similar to how apache modules are named, libpam-mod-foo, where foo is the module name. Using this scheme the cracklib PAM module package will be named libpam-mod-cracklib, and this package will contain the Depends for cracklib. Sounds fine to me. Will there be a pam-base that all these module packages depend on ? NOTE: This naming scheme will reuire the ppp-pam package to be renamed, any problems with this? Why? Isn' this simply ppp with pam support? -- Jean Pierre
Mailinglist (was: Re: organizer wanted!)
On Thu, Jan 21, 1999 at 01:08:17AM +0100, Wichert Akkerman wrote: It looks like a couple of us are able to attend, and most will need some place to stay. I think we need a volunteer to organize all this. Any willing to do this? I set up a mailinglist, so we do not need to flood the -devel list. Just send a mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] to subscribe. Read you there, Lars -- Everyone hates me because I'm paranoid. pgpd25RfNE2uu.pgp Description: PGP signature
doc-base control file madness
I've recently looked into the doc-base control file format. It seems
pretty sane, except I realized since it does not provide for any
macro expansion, I will have to edit the 8 or 9 doc control files
libgtk1.1.13-doc (and 1.1.14, and 1.1.15, ad nauseum) provides
EVERY SINGLE TIME there is a new release.
Yuck.
Is there any way doc-base can provide some kind of macro expansion,
so I don't have to edit:
/usr/doc/libgtk1.1.13-doc/gtk-faq.html/
...
every time I have a new package, instead, doing something like
VERSION=1.1.13
/usr/doc/libgtk${VERSION}-doc/gtk-faq.html/
...
? This would be much nicer.
Ben
--
Brought to you by the letters D and W and the number 8.
Yasashisani tsutsumaretanara, kitto.. meni utsuru..
Debian GNU/Linux maintainer of Gimp and GTK+ -- http://www.debian.org/
I'm on FurryMUCK as Che, and EFNet/Open Projects IRC as Che_Fox.
Re: Debian booth at LinuxTag '99?
Christoph Baumann [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Maybe I can also get a car to assist Thimo with transporting if someone wants to stay in Heidelberg (we have a youth hostel too, I can't offer sleeping place, sorry) Would be an option, especially if one goes there by car or such. Btw, how much is a stone throw? Regards, Philipp
xxgdb should get pulled
This probably isn't necessary, as I just filed an important and a grave bug against the package, but I thought I'd declare that xxgdb should really be pulled. It doesn't work at al in a libc6 environment, it hasn't been uploaded by its ostensible maintainer since bo was in frozen, and the last NMU for it was just a libc6 recompile for hamm. In essence, it doesn't work at all - just segvio's as soon as you open anything. (this is the grave bug) Also, it fails to build from source. (this is the important bug) So this is a last chance for developers who actually use xxgdb to counter my assertion that currently it's just wasted space on the archives. Does _anyone_ use it? Is my only other choice for a graphical debugger the lesstif-induced segfault ddd?
Re: mc bug? or i've not read the manuals
On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Jules Bean wrote: On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Tibor Koleszar wrote: Hello, So, if you have a script with a setuid flag after you edit+save it in mc's editor the flag will dissapear... I dont know, but i think it's a bug. Let me know if it is, and i'll report it. i've observed the same thing in emacs. Presumably it's an OS level safety feature. (Seems sensible to me) I suspect that both of you are editing these files as a user. I suspect (but haven't checked) that if you do the edit as root, that the bits will stay in place, but another user, who may have write permissions on the file should not be able to change the functionality and retain the setuidness. This seems like a proper quirk of the permissions system and nothing to do with the editor in question. Luck, Dwarf -- _-_-_-_-_- Author of The Debian Linux User's Guide _-_-_-_-_-_- aka Dale Scheetz Phone: 1 (850) 656-9769 Flexible Software 11000 McCrackin Road e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tallahassee, FL 32308 _-_-_-_-_-_- If you don't see what you want, just ask _-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Re: doc-base control file madness
On 21 Jan 1999, Ben Gertzfield wrote: I've recently looked into the doc-base control file format. It seems pretty sane, except I realized since it does not provide for any macro expansion, I will have to edit the 8 or 9 doc control files libgtk1.1.13-doc (and 1.1.14, and 1.1.15, ad nauseum) provides EVERY SINGLE TIME there is a new release. Can't you use something like m4 as a pre-processor and do macro expansion that way? Luck, Dwarf -- _-_-_-_-_- Author of The Debian Linux User's Guide _-_-_-_-_-_- aka Dale Scheetz Phone: 1 (850) 656-9769 Flexible Software 11000 McCrackin Road e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tallahassee, FL 32308 _-_-_-_-_-_- If you don't see what you want, just ask _-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Re: LSB?
Wayne == Wayne Schlitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wayne To the best of my knowledge, the LSB lists have never been Wayne *closed* to the general public. I have been subscribed to them Wayne for months, and I found out about them by reading /., Wayne debian-devel, and looking at a few web pages. Historical note: the original LSB list predates this, set up by Bruce in July and including just a few distribution and ISV representatives -- most of whom had met in person at the Expo in May. It was closed, but did have Debian people on it (and was run on one of our mail servers). After he resigned in August, Debian and Red Hat quickly agreed to continue creation of a written standard under the name LCS. Up until then the LSB was focused mainly on creating a reference implantation, not the specification we wanted. But the remaining members of the LSB wanted a written spec too, so LCS merged back into LSB again, becoming a subproject. Project leadership was reorganized under Dan Quinlan who opened up the lists on August 24. There were some press releases and /. postings about this, which in addition to reassuring everyone was also meant to crush the LSA, which was effective. (The LSA situation at that time had achieved Crisis status on IRC.) The rest is on the web archives at linuxbase.org, housed at Transmeta. Debian still manages the LSBs actual mailing lists. - PGP E4 70 6E 59 80 6A F5 78 63 32 BC FB 7A 08 53 4C __ _Debian GNU Johnie Ingram [EMAIL PROTECTED] mm mm / /(_)_ __ _ ___ __netgod irc.debian.org mm mm / / | | '_ \| | | \ \/ / m m m / /__| | | | | |_| |Yes, I'm Linus, and I am your God. mm mm \/_|_| |_|\__,_/_/\_\ -- Linus, keynote address, Expo 98 GO BLUE
Re: Bug#27050 (fdutils): A cause for security concern?
I wrote: I looked around in the code a bit more and found a few dubious looking sprintf's. What else should I look for? I already checked for 'system' and 'execve'. Wichert Akkerman writes: Please do so. Please do *what*? As I noted, there are no calls to system or its ilk. I know how to fix the sprintf's. My plan now is to analyze the path followed by strings from input to consumption. The control port is protected by a password: I'll look for holes in the password checking. What else? -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler) Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI
Re: New DFSG Draft revision #3
On Tue, Jan 19, 1999 at 08:56:09PM -0800, Darren Benham wrote: On 20-Jan-99 Anderson MacKay wrote: As I read the license, it just requires that you display notice that your website was created using Zope, e.g. a sort of powered by Zope logo kinda thing, and you need a credits page of some sort. I'm not even sure this license requires that this notice be on every page, just that it be in some obvious place near the front of the site. (But I don't have the license here in front of me, unfortunately ...) Thanks, Andy for your uninvited response. Probably the best description of Zope I've seen so far. So, does Zope run when the URL is clicked and serve the HTML (like CGI?) or does it generate the HTML page before hand and it just get served real time. It *is* a CGI script. In fact its preferred use is to run alongside the web server as a long running process (LRP). It has an event-loop just as an ordinary application. I think, and this is just off the cuff, that my problem with the license, be it the former OR latter, is the fact that the USER now has a license issue to deal with. I think (again, on the fly) that there should be no extra licensing worries for the user. They shouldn't *have* to look at the license of every package, the first time they use it, to determine if there are any extra restrictions that they have to comply with and we don't have (AFAIK) any way to inform the user that I would consider adequate. (ie, they might not see messages via dselect/dpkg if a sysadmin installs it for them. They might not see the description if they install via apt... etc) You're certainly right, but this is in fact a problem with the notice clause in your drafts. You mean USER in contrast to DEVELOPER ? This distinction is a little bit deliberate with free software IMHO, since we do educate the users that they have the right to modify the software. Imagine you have an GUI application. According to your draft, the application's license could carry a requirement that however you modify the application, you had to include credits to the original author in the start window. Now imagine the application came with an library. Could this requirement also apply to the library ? I.e. could the license require that I have to credit the author of the library in any application that used the library ? I guess we won't call that DFSG free. But now what if I would take the original, DFSG free application with the notice requirement, moved the biggest part of it in a library (I'm certainly allowed to do that according to the DFSG) and used that library in my own application. According to the DFSG, this modified library would be free of notice requirements, but then this is certainly not what the author of the application wanted. I don't see the borderline between restrictions on the USER (which you don't like) and restrictions on the DEVELOPER (which you seem to tolerate). Gregor
Re: Revision 4 of DFSG
Now for something different: 4.5. Example Licenses -- As examples, we consider the following licenses DFSG-free: * the Artistic License * the BSD License * the MIT/X Consortium License * the GNU General Public License (GPL) * the GNU Library General Public License (LGPL) * the Mozilla Public License (MPL) * the Q Public License (QPL) This list is a list of possibilities. Before the document would be released, the list would be modified to mention the licenses that truly do fit www.gnu.org has an RMS article about the evil BSD advertisment clause. IIRC, he referred to the XFree86 license as an truly free license, while the old BSD license with the advertisment clause was depreciated. His reasonsing was that one should avoid the terms BSD-like license and instead use XFree86 as an example, since some BSD licenses are evil. I guess the same reasoning holds for the X Consortium License (or how did they call this evil, new license for X11R6.4 ?). Perhaps we could mention this problem with the advertisment clause here, and add XFree86 to the list ? There were no problems with any XFree86 license, so it's reasonable to say that the XFree86 license is a good template for a free license. Gregor
Re: doc-base control file madness
Dale == Dale Scheetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ben I've recently looked into the doc-base control file Ben format. It seems pretty sane, except I realized since it does Ben not provide for any macro expansion, I will have to edit the Ben 8 or 9 doc control files libgtk1.1.13-doc (and 1.1.14, and Ben 1.1.15, ad nauseum) provides EVERY SINGLE TIME there is a new Ben release. Dale Can't you use something like m4 as a pre-processor and do Dale macro expansion that way? That would work, but it would be nice if it were built into the control file language. Many people will need this functionality in the future. Ben -- Brought to you by the letters Z and H and the number 9. To Perl, or not to Perl, that is the kvetching. Debian GNU/Linux maintainer of Gimp and GTK+ -- http://www.debian.org/ I'm on FurryMUCK as Che, and EFNet/Open Projects IRC as Che_Fox.
Re: doc-base control file madness
At 08:06 -0800 1999-01-21, Ben Gertzfield wrote:
Is there any way doc-base can provide some kind of macro expansion,
so I don't have to edit:
/usr/doc/libgtk1.1.13-doc/gtk-faq.html/
...
every time I have a new package, instead, doing something like
VERSION=1.1.13
/usr/doc/libgtk${VERSION}-doc/gtk-faq.html/
In glibc I do something (almost exactly) like:
In debian/libc-doc.doc-base.in:
Format: info
Index: @infodir@/libc.info.gz
Files: @infodir@/libc.*
Format: HTML
Index: @docdir@/@[EMAIL PROTECTED]/html/libc_toc.html
Files: @docdir@/@[EMAIL PROTECTED]/html/*.html
Then in debian/rules:
debian/libc-doc.doc-base: debian/libc-doc.doc-base.in
sed -e '[EMAIL PROTECTED]@%$(glibc)%g' -e '[EMAIL
PROTECTED]@%$(infodir)%g' \
-e '[EMAIL PROTECTED]@%$(docdir)%g' debian/libc-doc.doc-base.in \
debian/libc-doc.doc-base
# Paranoia
touch $@
Then I have the target that generates the glibc-doc .deb depend on
the debian/libc-doc.doc-base rule.
And make of course takes care of making sure debian/libc-doc.doc-base
is up to date with regard to debian/libc-doc.doc-base.in.
--
Joel Klecker (aka Espy) URL:http://web.espy.org/
URL:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Debian GNU/Linux PowerPC -- URL:http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/
Re: doc-base control file madness
On 21 Jan 1999, Ben Gertzfield wrote: Dale == Dale Scheetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ben I've recently looked into the doc-base control file Ben format. It seems pretty sane, except I realized since it does Ben not provide for any macro expansion, I will have to edit the Ben 8 or 9 doc control files libgtk1.1.13-doc (and 1.1.14, and Ben 1.1.15, ad nauseum) provides EVERY SINGLE TIME there is a new Ben release. Dale Can't you use something like m4 as a pre-processor and do Dale macro expansion that way? That would work, but it would be nice if it were built into the control file language. Many people will need this functionality in the future. Aside: Actually, the important versioning issues raised by libgtk might need addressing in another way, although I can't think of the Right Way just now. ObMacros: In general, it is IMHO silly to rewrite, yet again, a macro substitution engine into a special purpose piece of software (doc-base) when we already have several good, fast macro substituters (cpp, m4) and a framework from which they can easily be run (debian/rules). Jules /+---+-\ | Jelibean aka | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | 6 Evelyn Rd| | Jules aka | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Richmond, Surrey | | Julian Bean | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| TW9 2TF *UK* | ++---+-+ | War doesn't demonstrate who's right... just who's left. | | When privacy is outlawed... only the outlaws have privacy. | \--/
Re: doc-base control file madness
Jules == Jules Bean [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jules In general, it is IMHO silly to rewrite, yet again, a macro Jules substitution engine into a special purpose piece of Jules software (doc-base) when we already have several good, fast Jules macro substituters (cpp, m4) and a framework from which Jules they can easily be run (debian/rules). Okay, I guess I have no excuse. I'll just have to learn m4 or use perl or sed. Ben -- Brought to you by the letters B and T and the number 16. Do you wish to see our *surprising toys*? No! Do not! Debian GNU/Linux maintainer of Gimp and GTK+ -- http://www.debian.org/ I'm on FurryMUCK as Che, and EFNet/Open Projects IRC as Che_Fox.
Re: Revision 4 of DFSG
The XFree86 (I think it's also called the MIT license?) has been added. Since (so far) we still accept the advertising clause, the BSD license is still DFSG-free... On 21-Jan-99 Gregor Hoffleit wrote: Perhaps we could mention this problem with the advertisment clause here, and add XFree86 to the list ? There were no problems with any XFree86 license, so it's reasonable to say that the XFree86 license is a good template for a free license. -- = * http://benham.net/index.html * * * -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- ---* *Darren Benham * Version: 3.1 * * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * GCS d+(-) s:+ a29 C++$ UL++ P+++$ L++* * KC7YAQ * E? W+++$ N+(-) o? K- w+++$(--) O M-- V- PS-- * * Debian Developer * PE++ Y++ PGP++ t+ 5 X R+ !tv b DI+++ D++ * * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * G++G+++ e h+ r* y+* * * --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- ---* = pgpnN2QUSD1Cp.pgp Description: PGP signature
KDE status?
Hi guys, What's the word on Debian and the KDE? Just wondering. Thanks, -Ossama __ Ossama Othman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 58 60 1A E8 7A 66 F4 44 74 9F 3C D4 EF BF 35 88 1024/8A04D15D 1998/08/26
Re: doc-base control file madness
On Thu, 21 Jan 1999 17:18:21 + (GMT), Jules Bean [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On 21 Jan 1999, Ben Gertzfield wrote: Dale == Dale Scheetz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ben I've recently looked into the doc-base control file format. It Ben seems pretty sane, except I realized since it does not provide Ben for any macro expansion, Dale Can't you use something like m4 as a pre-processor and do macro Dale expansion that way? That would work, but it would be nice if it were built into the control file language. Many people will need this functionality in the future. In general, it is IMHO silly to rewrite, yet again, a macro substitution engine into a special purpose piece of software (doc-base) when we already have several good, fast macro substituters (cpp, m4) and a framework from which they can easily be run (debian/rules). Utterly agree. To prove it, I'm going to quote my docreg file which uses m4: changequote([, ])dnl define([common_elements], [Title: Debian Metadata Manual Subject: debian/policy Description: This manual contains a guide and a reference to the Debian Metadata Project. The Project's purpose, and the purpose of this document, is to outline a set of metadata elements, to specify an interface for package maintainers use in order to provide metadata about resources in their packages, to specify a unified subject catalog for categorizing metadata, and to specify an API for developers who wish to make use of a system's metadata. Language: en Creator: A. P. Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] Creator: Marcus Brinkmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 1998-06-29 Rights: copyright/GPL Type: specification])dnl Identifier: debian-metadata/debian-metadata.sgml Format: text/sgml common_elements Identifier: debian-metadata/debian-metadata.html/index.html Format: text/html common_elements Identifier: debian-metadata/debian-metadata.text Format: text/plain common_elements
Re: New DFSG Draft revision #3
On 21-Jan-99 Gregor Hoffleit wrote: I think, and this is just off the cuff, that my problem with the license, be it the former OR latter, is the fact that the USER now has a license issue to deal with. I think (again, on the fly) that there should be no extra licensing worries for the user. They shouldn't *have* to look at the license of every package, the first time they use it, to determine if there are any extra restrictions that they have to comply with and we don't have (AFAIK) any way to inform the user that I would consider adequate. (ie, they might not see messages via dselect/dpkg if a sysadmin installs it for them. They might not see the description if they install via apt... etc) You're certainly right, but this is in fact a problem with the notice clause in your drafts. Maybe, that's why I post the drafts and ask for suggestions. You mean USER in contrast to DEVELOPER ? This distinction is a little bit deliberate with free software IMHO, since we do educate the users that they have the right to modify the software. [snip] I don't see the borderline between restrictions on the USER (which you don't like) and restrictions on the DEVELOPER (which you seem to tolerate). Maybe use would have been a better word than user. Software should be free. Free to use, period. Free to modify how one wishes, period. Free to give out and/or sell (or not), period. Free to take Neat Functions(tm) from to use in ones own code, period. Their *should* be no such thing as copyright and plagurism(sp?) shouldn't apply. That's base idea of Free Software/Open Source. We go on to say, in the DFSG, what restrictions we'd accept on that ideal. The restrictions, however, arn't universal. They are (or should be worded) that they are restrictions, seperatly, on use, distribution, modification and derivation. For example, we can allow one restriction (credits) on modifications w/o allowing that restriction to be on derivations. (implied: and still call it Free Software as far as Debian is concerned). In this case, that is where the distiction could be. (I'm being hypothetical at this point. But that was the *intent* of the latest draft, right or wrongly worded.) The retaining credits is a restriction on modifications but not on use. The software should be free to *use*, period. No restrictions allowed. Would we allowed a license where, every time you ran a... program, say, to print a document, you had to go to your office window and shout I'm using foobar printer written by john smith? -- = * http://benham.net/index.html * * * -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- ---* *Darren Benham * Version: 3.1 * * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * GCS d+(-) s:+ a29 C++$ UL++ P+++$ L++* * KC7YAQ * E? W+++$ N+(-) o? K- w+++$(--) O M-- V- PS-- * * Debian Developer * PE++ Y++ PGP++ t+ 5 X R+ !tv b DI+++ D++ * * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * G++G+++ e h+ r* y+* * * --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- ---* = pgpIIDBLwAgpY.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian v2.1 (Slink) Deep Freeze
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Brian White [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ivtools 31966 Post Inst error I sent in a patch for this; it's a trivial fix. -- Shields.
Re: apt-get: no instalation candidat
On Thu, 21 Jan, 1999, Alexander N. Benner wrote: Hi trying to upgrade some packages apt-get fails with the msg. E: Package bigbrother has no instalation candidate Packages which fail (with this msg): bigbrother xplot xsplay xwatch my apt/source.list: # Use for a local mirror - remove the ftp1 http lines for the bits # your mirror contains. # deb file:/your/mirror/here/debian stable main contrib non-free # See sources.list(5) for more information, especial # Remember that you can only use http, ftp or file URIs deb http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US unstable non-US www.uk.debian.org carries non-us deb http://www.uk.debian.org/debian/non-us unstable/binary-i386/ #deb ftp://ftp.eecs.umich.edu/debian potato main contrib non-free #deb ftp://ftp.eecs.umich.edu/debian slink main contrib non-free deb http://www.uk.debian.org/debian slink main contrib non-free deb http://www.uk.debian.org/debian potato main contrib non-free #deb http://www.de.debian.org/debian potato main contrib non-free #deb file:/mnt/hdd2/linux.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de/pub/linux/distributions/debian potato main contrib non-free non-US #deb file:/mnt/hdd2/linux.mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de/pub/linux/distributions/debian slink main contrib non-free non-US -- Alexander N. Benner And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. -*- The Bible (Mark 12:29-30) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- GNU does not eliminate all the world's problems, only some of them. -- The GNU Manifesto
Re: Intent to package rolldice, blackjack
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Buddha Buck wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- rolldice is a virtual dice roller that takes in a string on the command line in the format used by some fantasy role playing games like Advanced Dungeons Dragons[1] and returns the result of the dice rolls. [1] Advanced Dungeons Dragons is a registered trademark of TSR, Inc. Is the trademark still held in TSR's name? Or is ADD a registered trademark of Wizards of the Coast? I was reading it off the back of a newly bought ADD book, so I guess so... :) Stevie Strickland (PGP ID = 23A6D909) 325912 Georgia Tech Station [EMAIL PROTECTED] Georgia Institute of Technology http://computersprache.net/~sstricklAtlanta, GA 30332 PGP Key fingerprint = 84 52 C7 EA E6 DB A1 C5 6A C9 D6 B9 88 26 74 FC -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNqd/dYXKvMsjptkJAQEAwwP+J4qQ+B0QQ4EA5jLbjLlbAPbpklZw7biW v03wwb8CFmcPYyK2SCkAzDOCgCd1CcgEbvk9bNqlxkCLWbtX27KKwY+nd8KREnFg UWHrKssli+cZtTYQ7+mqRkOLWkvZEo54WdZiEplk+XaSzrfFwnX9gNVAr/yPJcZT fcovsZ1C/KY= =VlUO -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Intent to package rolldice, blackjack
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- On Thu, Jan 21, 1999 at 04:04:20AM -0500, Stevie Strickland wrote: rolldice is a virtual dice roller that takes in a string on the command line in the format used by some fantasy role playing games like Advanced Dungeons Dragons[1] and returns the result of the dice rolls. Just wondering, what's the output like and does it return for d10 0-9 or 1-10? Does it handle d%? Is the number of dice optional or must one feed it 1d8 for example? Does it return the results of each die or the total rolled or both? Can you give it something like 2d8 d12 3d6 and get a nice formatted output? Am I asking too many questions? = Eek! Let me see if I can answer your questions in order... Returns 1-10 (I add 1 to num_sides * (rand() / (RAND_MAX + 1.0)) :) Handles d%? Oh, just put in d100 for right now, but I'll add that in :) Number of dice right now is not optional, but could easily be fixed to default to one... :) Just total, decided that was the important part (if you ask for 3d6, you're only interested in the result, unless you're doing something like method IV of rolling characters in ADD (I believe), in which you roll 4d6 and take the highest three, in which case do 4x1d6 :) No, only handles the first string, I think... let me try it: midkemia:~$ rolldice 2d8 1d12 3d6 13 Nope, only first string, but I could just have it loop through the non-option arguments, as well :) For your final question... no, I'm always glad to answer them, especially since they usually give me things to think about as to new features :) Stevie - -- Stevie Strickland (PGP ID = 23A6D909) 325912 Georgia Tech Station [EMAIL PROTECTED] Georgia Institute of Technology http://computersprache.net/~sstricklAtlanta, GA 30332 PGP Key fingerprint = 84 52 C7 EA E6 DB A1 C5 6A C9 D6 B9 88 26 74 FC -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: 2.6.3a Charset: noconv iQCVAwUBNqeAhYXKvMsjptkJAQHm6wP8C0ogTowH25iN31WY9UY+1mR/1lealBK3 8tdkeBU2nluVc79dKZ5YYVG1mL1y2QAaRjrcPmAfUctRg1RSEIWBpND1Umxc6SEk MEtvUruJOvNzih2gUXRbBGEnl+eK5804GdMiO7XXF6MApwjfngHELW5XH8dU89xx 7uj1YzZ/GEs= =nED1 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
jdk doesn't work at all - is anyone on it?
Hello, After a recent upgrade of the JDK package (on a slink machine) it stopped working. It complains about not finding 'versionCheck' and won't run any program (I'm talking about the jre, the runtime environment). At first I suspected that maybe I screwed something and purged and re-installed the package, but that doesn't work. Now I had a report from someone else that it doesn't work for him at all too. I haven't recieved any response from the maintainerso far (about a week after sending this bug, and about two weeks since the fatal upgrade). Is anyone sitting on this? How severe is this for the release? Thanks, --Amos --Amos Shapira| Of course Australia was marked for 133 Shlomo Ben-Yosef st. | glory, for its people had been chosen Jerusalem 93 805 | by the finest judges in England. ISRAEL [EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Anonymous
RE: KDE status?
On 21-Jan-99 Ossama Othman wrote: Hi guys, What's the word on Debian and the KDE? Just wondering. Thanks, -Ossama It's all available in the archives... Let's not start THAT discussion again, ok? -- = * http://benham.net/index.html * * * -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- ---* *Darren Benham * Version: 3.1 * * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * GCS d+(-) s:+ a29 C++$ UL++ P+++$ L++* * KC7YAQ * E? W+++$ N+(-) o? K- w+++$(--) O M-- V- PS-- * * Debian Developer * PE++ Y++ PGP++ t+ 5 X R+ !tv b DI+++ D++ * * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * G++G+++ e h+ r* y+* * * --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- ---* = pgpRDWJWDXB5z.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: jdk doesn't work at all - is anyone on it?
Amos == Amos Shapira [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Amos At first I suspected that maybe I screwed something and purged Amos and re-installed the package, but that doesn't work. Now I had Amos a report from someone else that it doesn't work for him at all Amos too. Same here; reinstalling it gets you closer but one still has to go inside /usr/lib/jdk1.1 and replace 2 empty dirs with symlinks before it actually works. And though it then runs, it still complains about checkVersions being missing. I'd rather have the jdk 1.1.6 from September back, to be honest -- it actually worked. How did 1.1.7 get into slink two weeks ago, this far into the freeze? Amos Is anyone sitting on this? How severe is this for the release? I'd say grave, but then again jdk is non-free and wont be on CDs anyway. TIA to whoever fixes this package. - PGP E4 70 6E 59 80 6A F5 78 63 32 BC FB 7A 08 53 4C __ _Debian GNU Johnie Ingram [EMAIL PROTECTED] mm mm / /(_)_ __ _ ___ __netgod irc.debian.org mm mm / / | | '_ \| | | \ \/ / m m m / /__| | | | | |_| |Yes, I'm Linus, and I am your God. mm mm \/_|_| |_|\__,_/_/\_\ -- Linus, keynote address, Expo 98 GO BLUE
RE: KDE status?
Hi Darren, What's the word on Debian and the KDE? Just wondering. Thanks, -Ossama It's all available in the archives... Let's not start THAT discussion again, ok? Sure no problem. I had no intention of doing so. I was just curious as to the status. There will be no argument from me, especially since I agreed with Debian's stance on the matter. :) Thanks, -Ossama __ Ossama Othman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 58 60 1A E8 7A 66 F4 44 74 9F 3C D4 EF BF 35 88 1024/8A04D15D 1998/08/26
getting kernel 2.2 into slink
Would anyone object if kernel 2.2 were packaged up at least as a kernel-source package for slink? 2.0.3x would remain slink's default kernel, would be used on the boot disks, etc, but this would let people get ahold of kernel 2.2 easily on a debian cdrom, and it would let us say that debian supports 2.2. (I was at a LUG meeting the other day, and I was asked about this very thing a couple of times; people obviously care about it.) Brian, would this be too grave a violation of your no new code rule? (For those not yet in the know -- kernel 2.2 will probably be released next week.) -- see shy jo
Re: Debian booth at LinuxTag '99?
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Michael Bramer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One question: Is it right, that you search for a Linux Distribution for your 'Tagungs-CD'. Last year it was suse, the year befor redhat. Right? This year, debian? Choosing the underlying distribution to build the LinuxTag CD from has always been a most painful decision. The infighting that occurred last year over the choice SuSE vs. Red Hat turned ugly. I don't expect the decision to come any easier this year. Frankly, I don't think that Debian has a realistic chance. Partly this has pragmatic reasons: Only a minority of the LinuxTag crew--and a not particularly outspoken one at that--uses Debian, and I don't think we have anybody who knows how to build a debian package. The other part I don't want to get into here, but rational reasons don't come into it. Just in case: How much support could the Debian project give us for production of a Debian-based LinuxTag CD-ROM? -- Christian naddy Weisgerber [EMAIL PROTECTED] carpe librum: books 'n' reviews URL:http://www.carpe.com/buch/
Re: mc bug? or i've not read the manuals
On Thu, Jan 21, 1999 at 11:32:54AM -0500, Dale Scheetz wrote: I suspect that both of you are editing these files as a user. I suspect (but haven't checked) that if you do the edit as root, that the bits will stay in place, but another user, who may have write permissions on the file should not be able to change the functionality and retain the setuidness. This seems like a proper quirk of the permissions system and nothing to do with the editor in question. Unless something has changed, the setuid bit is ignored on scripts anyway. I just tried to get one working on Linux 2.0.34 for demo purposes and couldn't. Actually you lose the bit just doing an owner change as root even. Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt VK3TYD [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Debian packages at ftp://ftp.rising.com.au/pub/hamish. PGP#EFA6B9D5 CCs of replies from mailing lists are welcome. http://hamish.home.ml.org
Re: MD5sum in Packages (was: No ldd?)
George Bonser [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Note that I am using the apt method of dselect using the round-robin mirrors so I have no idea which site I was really connected to when I got the bad .deb Does apt check the MD5sum of the package against that in the Packages file? Does dpkg do that (I suppose not, since I don't think it reads Packages files)? If neither of them do, shouldn't one of them do it? Which one? (I.e. against which package should I send a bug report? :)) Another idea for a new feature in the packaging system: I think it would be a good thing to include a PGP or GPG signature of the Packages file in the distribution. This could be automatically generated (filename Packages.sig or something) by whatever adds packages to ftp.debian.org. Someone could generate a key for it, and add the key to debian-keyring, perhaps signed by a couple of maintainers. The signature should simply validate that the Packages file is identical to that on ftp.debian.org; that is, it is unmodified from an official Debian distribution. Of course, it would also be nice if something checked the signature automatically; apt could do this after downloading the Packages file, or dpkg --update-avail could do it, if given access to the signature somehow. Just an idea... (I don't read debian-devel, so if you want to say something to me, mail to debian-user or to me directly.) -- -=- Rjs -=- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: KDE status?
It's all available in the archives... Let's not start THAT discussion again, ok? Sure no problem. I had no intention of doing so. I was just curious as to the status. There will be no argument from me, especially since I agreed with Debian's stance on the matter. :) Brief summary, then: KDE will not be in slink. KDE will be in potato if a) KDE change their license (in which case it can go into contrib) b) Qt change their license (in which case they may both be able to go into free) b) is the likely outcome, since troll are designing a new Qt license, which Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED]) is looking at with a view to making it both DFSG-free (which it almost certainly will be) and GPL-compatible (trickier). For more background, please read the archives of debian-legal,debian-devel and kde-licensing :-) Jules /+---+-\ | Jelibean aka | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | 6 Evelyn Rd| | Jules aka | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Richmond, Surrey | | Julian Bean | [EMAIL PROTECTED]| TW9 2TF *UK* | ++---+-+ | War doesn't demonstrate who's right... just who's left. | | When privacy is outlawed... only the outlaws have privacy. | \--/
RE: KDE status?
Hi Jules, Brief summary, then: KDE will not be in slink. KDE will be in potato if a) KDE change their license (in which case it can go into contrib) b) Qt change their license (in which case they may both be able to go into free) b) is the likely outcome, since troll are designing a new Qt license, which Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED]) is looking at with a view to making it both DFSG-free (which it almost certainly will be) and GPL-compatible (trickier). For more background, please read the archives of debian-legal,debian-devel and kde-licensing :-) Great! Thanks, that's all I wanted to know. ;) -Ossama __ Ossama Othman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 58 60 1A E8 7A 66 F4 44 74 9F 3C D4 EF BF 35 88 1024/8A04D15D 1998/08/26
Re: jdk doesn't work at all - is anyone on it?
Johnie Ingram [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'd say grave, but then again jdk is non-free and wont be on CDs anyway. TIA to whoever fixes this package. I'd say it's grave too - despite being non-free, this _is_ the only decent java virtual machine available and java isn't exactly unpopular. Later, Dale -- +- pgp key available --+ | Dale E. Martin | Clifton Labs, Inc. | Senior Computer Engineer| | [EMAIL PROTECTED]|http://www.clifton-labs.com | +--+
Re: getting kernel 2.2 into slink
On Thu, Jan 21, 1999 at 12:34:57PM -0800, Joey Hess wrote: Would anyone object if kernel 2.2 were packaged up at least as a kernel-source package for slink? 2.0.3x would remain slink's default kernel, I'de really like to see a kernel-image too, atleast for the non-i386 ports to use. The 2.2 kernels work much better for them than the 2.0.3x kernels, and requires less (usually none) patching to get them to compile. For example, the 2.0.35 sparc-kernel patch in slink right now is 2.8 megs (compressed). I've been able to compile straight from the pristine source for 2.1.128 to 2.1.132 (one small header fix in 132). I'm going to try the 2.2.0pre9 and see if I get the same results. Also, for sun4c's 2.0 kernels (even patched ones) just will not do. This is due to a slow down bug in that architecture. However, 2.1/2.2 do not exibit this behavior. This is especially noticable when doing mke2fs, which for a 2 gig drive took 40 minutes with 2.0.35 and only 10 minutes with 2.1.129. Testiments: Sparc IPC: 2.1.131, 46 days up (only shutdown once since install) NASA Irc Server Sparc LX: 2.1.130, 52 days up (died once from power failure in building) Logging server for 50+ machines Sparc LX: 2.1.130, 18 days up (developement and test machine) I run the dog shit out of this one, 300 megs of cvs repositories, light httpd use, heavy LDAP use with 200 megs of indexes. It only get's rebooted for testing, the shutdowns aren't related to the kernel. -- --- - - --- - - - --- Ben Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian GNU/Linux UnixGroup Admin - Jordan Systems Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- - - - --- --- -- The Choice of the GNU Generation
Re: Debian booth at LinuxTag '99?
On Thu, Jan 21, 1999 at 08:35:06PM +0100, Christian Weisgerber wrote: Choosing the underlying distribution to build the LinuxTag CD from has always been a most painful decision. The infighting that occurred last year over the choice SuSE vs. Red Hat turned ugly. I don't expect the decision to come any easier this year. :) Wenn zwei sich streiten, freut sich der Dritte. (transl: if two are struggeling, the third is lucky). Just in case: How much support could the Debian project give us for production of a Debian-based LinuxTag CD-ROM? Any you need. At least from me, and I think from anybody working with/on Debian. I don't know what the LinuxTag CD does contain beside the distribution. Could you give a small summary? Marcus -- Rhubarb is no Egyptian god.Debian GNU/Linuxfinger brinkmd@ Marcus Brinkmann http://www.debian.orgmaster.debian.org [EMAIL PROTECTED]for public PGP Key http://homepage.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/Marcus.Brinkmann/ PGP Key ID 36E7CD09
Re: KDE status?
On Thu, 21 Jan, 1999, Ossama Othman wrote: Hi guys, What's the word on Debian and the KDE? Just wondering. They will not let us distribute binaries so we don't. -- GNU does not eliminate all the world's problems, only some of them. -- The GNU Manifesto
I'm a concerned about slink. specifically jdk1.1, idraw, and xaw-wrappers
I'm not trying to be too negative or anything, but I've been having kind of a bad day with Slink and I'm wondering if I'm the only one? Today I've been trying to draw some stuff, and here's the path I've gone down. I tried to use TogetherJ, written in Java. But jdk1.1 is completely hosed and the jvm won't even run, so I abandoned that fairly quickly. There's a bug report about it but no indication if it's being worked on or not. No new package on master or anything. Then I tried to use idraw, which I've used in the past a _bunch_ of times. It keeps segmentation faulting on me, and so I went to look at bugs.debian.org and the bug report about this is over 100 days old. So, then I tried to use xfig. It kept crashing immediately. So I again went to bugs.debian.org and it has a bug (only 7 days old this time) explaining the problem (I _was_ using nextaw) and how to work around it. For the life of me, xaw-wrappers won't work. Even for stuff I didn't set up. For instance, if I run xkeycaps (which uses xaw-wrappers on its own) with XAW_WRAPPERS_DEBUG set to 1, I get: ~ xkeycaps libc version: 6 LD_LIBRARY_PATH: /usr/X11R6/lib/neXtaw:/usr/local/lib:/usr/X11R6/lib:/usr/lib/jdk1.1/lib/i586/green_threads But, from the configuration, it looks to me like it's not _supposed_ to use neXtaw, am I right? With it first in LD_LIBRARY_PATH it's going to, and if I have nextaw installed, indeed it crashes on me. What's up with this stuff? Are we really about to release a system that is this unstable? I've been using Debian since 0.93 or something like that and I've not ever had this many problems. I realize we're all volunteers and all of that, so if the answer is that it's just not ready, let's not pretend we're about to release. Also, should I increase the severity of the bugs filed against these packages? Normally I wouldn't as it seems kind of rude to me, but I _don't_ think they should ship as is. Thanks for any input. Dale -- +- pgp key available --+ | Dale E. Martin | Clifton Labs, Inc. | Senior Computer Engineer| | [EMAIL PROTECTED]|http://www.clifton-labs.com | +--+
