Re: clanlib shlibs broken

[Anthony Towns]

On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 10:14:46PM -0600, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 04, 2002 at 12:18:22PM +0900, Junichi Uekawa wrote:
> > "clanlib" package used to have a libclanlib.so.1, and 
> > since yesterday or so, it now has libclanlib.so.2.
> > This will break upgrade from potato to woody.
> > I am rather doubtful if this can be fixed before woody release,
> > any thoughts ?
> Can you be more specific?  The package 'clanlib' on my system provides 
> neither libclanlib.so.1, nor libclanlib.so.2.

libclan{Core,Display,App}.so.1 it does have, though. Or did. It now has
.so.2 versions of them instead. The package needs to be renamed when
you change sonames.

Cheers,
aj

-- 
Anthony Towns <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred.

Vote [1] Bdale!


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Re: xfree86 unbuildable on ppc

[Branden Robinson]

On Thu, Apr 04, 2002 at 12:16:30AM -0500, Ben Collins wrote:
> > 
> > What we really should have is a nice low-level C library that encapsulates
> > such things and lets anyone use it...
> > 
> 
> All we really need is a master ioctl header that defines the numbers. It
> would be Debian specific, but what the hell.

It needs to be more than just #defines for the AGP and DRM interfaces.
Whole data structures are shuttled around.

-- 
G. Branden Robinson|I've made up my mind.  Don't try to
Debian GNU/Linux   |confuse me with the facts.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |-- Indiana Senator Earl Landgrebe
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Re: xfree86 unbuildable on ppc

[Daniel Jacobowitz]

On Thu, Apr 04, 2002 at 12:22:00AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 04, 2002 at 03:04:17PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> > The kernel doesn't change ioctl numbers; they're actually competent at
> > maintaining their interfaces. OTOH, they don't consider their headers
> > such an interface, and they're happy to have them break randomly or not
> > work from userspace at all or anything.
> > 
> > What we really should have is a nice low-level C library that encapsulates
> > such things and lets anyone use it...
> 
> Fine and dandy, but what do I do in the meantime?  I can guard each of
> the ioctl #defines with an #ifndef, but there's also a typedef thrown
> into the mix.  I can't exactly do this:
> 
> try {
>   typedef struct {
> int context;
> unsigned int offset;
> unsigned int size;
> unsigned int free;
>   } drm_sis_mem_t;
> } except redefinitionException {
>   /* oh, that's all right, it's already defined */
> }
> 
> It's because of this that I continue to feel that kernel interfaces are
> best defined by the kernel.

Pick a different name for the type, and use a #define to make the
following code pick it up transparently.  Nothing revolutionary here.

> If the kernel headers aren't an interface, why do they exist?  There

For the building of the kernel.  Pretty much exclusively, as far as
they're concerned.  Everywhere they're still pulled into glibc is a bug
no one's bothered to fix yet.

> appears to be a very large philosophical gulf here.  The fact that the

Definitely, but nothing new to cope with.


-- 
Daniel Jacobowitz   Carnegie Mellon University
MontaVista Software Debian GNU/Linux Developer


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Re: xfree86 unbuildable on ppc

[Branden Robinson]

On Thu, Apr 04, 2002 at 03:04:17PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> The kernel doesn't change ioctl numbers; they're actually competent at
> maintaining their interfaces. OTOH, they don't consider their headers
> such an interface, and they're happy to have them break randomly or not
> work from userspace at all or anything.
> 
> What we really should have is a nice low-level C library that encapsulates
> such things and lets anyone use it...

Fine and dandy, but what do I do in the meantime?  I can guard each of
the ioctl #defines with an #ifndef, but there's also a typedef thrown
into the mix.  I can't exactly do this:

try {
typedef struct {
  int context;
  unsigned int offset;
  unsigned int size;
  unsigned int free;
} drm_sis_mem_t;
} except redefinitionException {
/* oh, that's all right, it's already defined */
}

It's because of this that I continue to feel that kernel interfaces are
best defined by the kernel.

If the kernel headers aren't an interface, why do they exist?  There
appears to be a very large philosophical gulf here.  The fact that the
Linux kernel guys may long for nice low-level C libraries that
encapsulate such things doesn't mean they exist.  Is this a side-effect
of some sort of "real men don't program in userspace" dogma?

-- 
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Debian GNU/Linux   |  mark with chalk,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |  cut with axe,
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Re: xfree86 unbuildable on ppc

[Ben Collins]

> 
> What we really should have is a nice low-level C library that encapsulates
> such things and lets anyone use it...
> 

All we really need is a master ioctl header that defines the numbers. It
would be Debian specific, but what the hell.

-- 
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Re: xfree86 unbuildable on ppc

[Anthony Towns]

On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 11:59:36PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 11:34:26PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> > Apparently, if the Linux kernel driver guys renumber some ioctls, the
> > right thing is for everybody's apps to break instantly.
> Err, brainfart -- scratch that point.  Obviously this happens no matter
> where they're defined, because they're expanded at build time.
> 
> ...which does, actually, leave me wondering why app writers should
> bother defining them at all.  The numbers belong to the kernel; why
> don't we keep them there?  If the kernel revs in such a way as to break
> ioctl numbers, there's no userland way around it, is there?

The kernel doesn't change ioctl numbers; they're actually competent at
maintaining their interfaces. OTOH, they don't consider their headers
such an interface, and they're happy to have them break randomly or not
work from userspace at all or anything.

What we really should have is a nice low-level C library that encapsulates
such things and lets anyone use it...

Cheers,
aj

-- 
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I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred.

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Re: xfree86 unbuildable on ppc

[Branden Robinson]

On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 11:34:26PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
> Apparently, if the Linux kernel driver guys renumber some ioctls, the
> right thing is for everybody's apps to break instantly.

Err, brainfart -- scratch that point.  Obviously this happens no matter
where they're defined, because they're expanded at build time.

...which does, actually, leave me wondering why app writers should
bother defining them at all.  The numbers belong to the kernel; why
don't we keep them there?  If the kernel revs in such a way as to break
ioctl numbers, there's no userland way around it, is there?

-- 
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Debian GNU/Linux   | comitting hara-kiri over this, but
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | I overslept this morning.
http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | -- Toshio Yamaguchi


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Re: xfree86 unbuildable on ppc

[Branden Robinson]

On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 09:42:24PM -0500, Jack Howarth wrote:
> Hello,
>Could someone explain to me the point of releasing
> Xfree86 4.1.0-15 as is when clearly patch #065 was 
> going to break builds on most non-intel arches?

Actually, the patch was applied to FIX a problem with building xfree86
on ia64.  So your assertion is wrong.

The bottom line is that it's hit or miss as to whether you can compile
XFree86 or not.  It depends on what kernel flavor your libc6-dev was
compiled against.  BenC's last glibc release for i386 was built against
a kernel that omitted the SiS ioctl information from drm.h.  BenC also
says that it's completely up to the guys who build glibc for each
architecture what kernel headers they build against.

And Herbert Xu told me that I shouldn't ever depend on kernel headers
for anything, but encapsulate all information I need into my package.

So that's how we got where are today.  Somehow it's the
application-writer's job to know how the underlying kernel defines its
ioctls.  How this position is consistent with the very existence of
symbolic constants in C library headers is quite beyond me.

Apparently, if the Linux kernel driver guys renumber some ioctls, the
right thing is for everybody's apps to break instantly.

> I simply don't see the logic at play here considering
> we're supposed to be closing in on woody's release.

I entirely agree.  However, I don't have the power to tell Ben, the
glibc-architecture builders, or Herbert Xu how to do things.  My package
is at their mercy.

As I understand it, however, the real blame lies with the guys on the
linux-kernel list.  We wouldn't have this problem if the kernel headers
were the same regardless of what modules you decide to compile.

-- 
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Debian GNU/Linux   |you pry it from my cold, dead
[EMAIL PROTECTED] |brain.
http://people.debian.org/~branden/ |-- Adam Thornton


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Re: clanlib shlibs broken

[Steve Langasek]

On Thu, Apr 04, 2002 at 12:18:22PM +0900, Junichi Uekawa wrote:

> "clanlib" package used to have a libclanlib.so.1, and 
> since yesterday or so, it now has libclanlib.so.2.
> This will break upgrade from potato to woody.

> I am rather doubtful if this can be fixed before woody release,
> any thoughts ?

Can you be more specific?  The package 'clanlib' on my system provides 
neither libclanlib.so.1, nor libclanlib.so.2.

Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer


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Re: libsmpeg0 *will* break if not doing upgrade/dist-upgrade from potato->woody [Was: Re: libsmpeg0 shlibs is broken, fix it or we shalt lose whatever.]

[Joe Drew]

On Wed, 2002-04-03 at 03:14, Anthony Towns wrote:
> The easiest solution is probably to add a Conflicts: line to libsmpeg0
> against all the packages that used to Depend: on it in potato, which seems
> to be:
> 
> Conflicts: libsmpeg-dev (<= 0.3.5-1), smpeg-gtv (<= 0.3.5-1), 
>smpeg-plaympeg (<= 0.3.5-1)

Indeed: it seems the set of packages which actually used smpeg in potato
was very small (in fact all were generated from the smpeg source
package). No games will break, and only user-compiled packages will need
a recompile. Given the other restrictions placed upon us by the freeze I
consider this acceptable (though not optimal).

-- 
Joe Drew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: xfree86 unbuildable on ppc

[Jack Howarth]

Opps...that bug report associated with this
problem is 141116 not 141114...sorry.
  Jack 


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clanlib shlibs broken

[Junichi Uekawa]

Hi,

"clanlib" package used to have a libclanlib.so.1, and 
since yesterday or so, it now has libclanlib.so.2.
This will break upgrade from potato to woody.

I am rather doubtful if this can be fixed before woody release,
any thoughts ?


regards,
junichi
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xfree86 unbuildable on ppc

[Jack Howarth]

Hello,
   Could someone explain to me the point of releasing
Xfree86 4.1.0-15 as is when clearly patch #065 was 
going to break builds on most non-intel arches?

  * patch #065: raped again by Herbert Xu and Ben Collins; you're not
"supposed to" Build-Depend on a kernel package and at the same time the
glibc versions of the kernel headers exclude SiS DRM ioctls that we need
#defined to compile properly.  Kludge these #defines into sis_alloc.c
because, of course, it's XFree86's job to know what the uderlying kernel's
ioctl numbers are.  While we're at it, why don't we just stop using
standardized constants in our C programs altogether?  :-P  Oh, by the way,
these are the ioctl's for i386 Linux.  Talk to Herbert and Ben if this
sucks for you. (Closes: #139511)

I simply don't see the logic at play here considering
we're supposed to be closing in on woody's release.
  Jack Howarth
ps See bug report 141114 for details.


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Re: ccache for the autobuilders?

[Junichi Uekawa]

Paul Russell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cum veritate scripsit:

> If this is indicative, a complete debian build would use 24GB, and I
> would say that a cache of a few GB would be a win (given not all
> packages get built as frequently).
> 
> Also, a build farm could be optimized to usually build the same package
> on the same machine, optimizing the cache furthur.

I read on the web that ccache is "guaranteed" to work.

What happens if builds fail because of ccache?


regards,
junichi


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Re: ccache for the autobuilders?

[Paul Russell]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Tuesday 02 April 2002 06:17, Ben Collins wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 02, 2002 at 03:48:49AM +0200, Paul Russell wrote:
> > Looking at my testing PPC box with grep-available, we have only about
> > 8GB total Installed-Size.  So I would expect a ccache of 1GB (the
> > default) to be a net gain, given that not all packages are built with the
>
> glibc packages total installed size is only a few dozen megs. However,
> the source builds takes up about 600megs. XFree86, about 1.6gigs.

Um, that's wonderful.  But does glibc build lots of object files which get
discarded or something?

> There's no way to sanely cache our builds.

I understand that it's traditional for the tone of debian-devel to be
overwhelmingly negative, but in this case I think you have erred.

Building glibc (2.2.5-3) from source results in packages with a total 
installed size of 45,296.  The ccache stats show a cache size 153,476
which is about 3 times as large.

If this is indicative, a complete debian build would use 24GB, and I
would say that a cache of a few GB would be a win (given not all
packages get built as frequently).

Also, a build farm could be optimized to usually build the same package
on the same machine, optimizing the cache furthur.
- -- 
Thanks for your mail,
Paul.
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Re: Debbugs and ACK messages

[Anthony DeRobertis]

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I think we need a better way to specify flags. Especially 
because now we've got to worry about which comes first (or does 
it matter)?

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Re: on potato's proftpd

[Michael Stone]

On Thu, Apr 04, 2002 at 01:06:26AM +0200, martin f krafft wrote:
> because it will prevent s.d.o from serving a buggy package. it's not
> fixed perfectly, but at least it's not subject to a known exploit.

Could you be a little more careful with your terms? A DOS is not an
exploit, it's a DOS. By saying "exploit" your implying a far more
critical problem than actually exists.

-- 
Mike Stone


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Re: on potato's proftpd

[Andrew Pimlott]

On Thu, Apr 04, 2002 at 01:09:27AM +0200, martin f krafft wrote:
> this problem is understood by the developers of proftpd

Wichert said that nobody has explained why the current fix on s.d.o
doesn't work.  If the problem is understood, why hasn't someone
explained this?  That's all that is asked, AFAICT.

Andrew


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Re: Debbugs and ACK messages

[Brian May]

On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 10:51:22PM +0200, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> Doug Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > I suspect there will be enough people on both sides of this
> > issue.  How about defaulting to non-verbose behavior, and having
> > a `-verbose' variant of all the BTS addresses (or even the
> > opposite).  Then those who prefer to receive an acknowledgement
> > can mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] and so on...
> 
> Other way: Let it verbose and everybody who dont want it writes to
> -nonverbose.
> So you dont break with the behavior it has now.

How would you combine flags? eg. -done and -nonverbose or
-forward and -nonverbose, etc.

(or is that -forwarded?)
-- 
Brian May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: Debbugs and ACK messages

[Jamie Wilkinson]

This one time, at band camp, Wichert Akkerman wrote:
>Previously Colin Walters wrote:
>> This gets tricky though, because right now the BTS isn't designed to
>> do stuff depending on the submitter at all...
>
>It's simple, just stick a flag in the mail headers.

And that flag is?

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Re: on potato's proftpd

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Nathan E Norman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.04.03.0732 +0200]:
> > well, i am calm, but i disagree. sure, it boils down to the question
> > who debian's audience are, but for all i am concerned, debian's
> > reputation _used_ to include "security", and the reason why i'd (as in
> > "would" and "had") install(ed) debian was because i didn't need to be
> > worrying about the obvious and hence i could spend my resources on
> > other things. had i wanted to patch one-year-old bugs in software that
> > installs from the "security archives", then i might have just chosen
> > to "fly" redhat. i don't understand why you aren't understanding this.
> > i am not at all against finding the real bug as well as investigating
> > why:
> 
> See, paragraphs like this directly contradict you statement above that
> you don't want a flame war.  Debian "used to include security"?
> Apparently you no longer run Debian?  Does this mean you've wiothdrawn
> your name for the NM queue?

no and no. i will continue to run debian and i'll support the project!
i am just joining in with the group of people who see debian's
reputation and quality not keeping up with what it used to be. i see
no alternative to debian and so i want to prevent this degradation,
simple as that.

i am also not attacking anyone, not even the project. what i wrote is
based on facts and experience, and if at all, then it should give
everyone partaking in the project something to think about.

> Are you willing to abandon the hyperbole and put forward rational
> arguments as to why your solution is best?

because it will prevent s.d.o from serving a buggy package. it's not
fixed perfectly, but at least it's not subject to a known exploit.
it's not the best, but it's IMHO really only beaten by the fix of the
root of the bug *right now*. this fix isn't available, so i suggest
bridging the time until we can patch proftpd properly with a temporary
fix. you know, just so that when i have s.d.o in my sources.list,
i can actually rely on debian as i usually do.

> The temporary patch is, well, temporary.  It only works on a new
> install; otherwise the admin has to examine their config file by hand
> to make the change.

well, we have debconf to help. and postinst scripts can be quite
intelligent...

> Worst of all, since the bug was thought to be fixed but isn't, the
> temporary fix may not in fact prevent the exploit.  If the exploit
> is part of libc globbing code, it may be exploitable in other code,
> not just proftpd.

of course. i am not arguing against that.

-- 
martin;  (greetings from the heart of the sun.)
  \ echo mailto: !#^."<*>"|tr "<*> mailto:"; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
there's an old proverb that says just about whatever you want it to.


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Re: on potato's proftpd

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Andrew Pimlott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.04.03.1805 +0200]:
> On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 10:54:25AM -0500, Andrew Pimlott wrote:
> > I think Wichert's position
> 
> ... reflects appropriate discipline, given the (relatively modest)
> severity of the problem.

i also have to agree with you here since the problem isn't all that
bad after all. but it's not the problem which is making me react in
such "loud" ways, it's the principle of why a buggy package in s.d.o
doesn't get prioritized attention...

-- 
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could be a fatal error.
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Re: on potato's proftpd

[martin f krafft]

also sprach Andrew Pimlott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002.04.03.1754 +0200]:
> There are several good reasons:
> 
>   - If a band-aid fix is allowed, there is less incentive to find
> the correct fix.

true. doesn't mean that we have to fall into that hole.

>   - If the problem isn't understood, there is a good chance that the
> band-aid doesn't really fix the problem, and a fair chance that
> it creates new problems.  If there are related problems (eg,
> similar bugs in different programs), they may go undiscovered.

this problem is understood by the developers of proftpd, and their
suggestion (if an upgrade to a newer version isn't an option -- which
applies to potato) is this temporary fix.

then look at the fix and ask yourself how this "band-aid" could cause
other problems, keeping the FTP protocol in mind.

>   - Users would have to upgrade again when the permanent fix is
> released.  People running production systems like to minimize
> changes, so this could make them unhappy.

i also administer production systems, and while i just as well possess
a certain inertia with respect to upgrading the packages their,
i always try to get "security" updates tested and distributed as soon
as possible...

-- 
martin;  (greetings from the heart of the sun.)
  \ echo mailto: !#^."<*>"|tr "<*> mailto:"; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
"information superhighway"
 is just an anagram for
"i'm on a huge wispy rhino fart".


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Re: Description to man pages

[Colin Watson]

On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 10:45:29PM +0200, Otto Wyss wrote:
> Since I hated to start dselect again and again just to read a package
> description I wrote a script "dsc2man" which creates appropriate man
> pages for each package. 
> 
> To minimize possible conflicts with other names it creates man pages in
> section 6 (games!). Of course this can be configured in the config file.
> I'd rather like to know which is a better place for it.

Use a subsection. For instance, somepackage(1dsc) goes in
$(mandir)/man1/somepackage.1dsc.gz. This should avoid clashes, and you
can pass man the '-e dsc' option to look at those pages exclusively. It
might also be a good idea to write to /usr/local/man by default rather
than /usr/share/man.

Would it be possible to make it easier to use for those who don't use
debiansynch? I couldn't figure out how to get it to work at all -
whatever I tried just ended up with "0 processed of 0". I don't have a
local mirror, so I'd like it just to use the available file.

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Re: Debbugs and ACK messages

[Daniel Jacobowitz]

On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 03:56:06PM -0600, Michael Janssen wrote:
> In Joerg Jaspert's email, 03-04-2002:
> > Doug Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > 
> > > I suspect there will be enough people on both sides of this
> > > issue.  How about defaulting to non-verbose behavior, and having
> > > a `-verbose' variant of all the BTS addresses (or even the
> > > opposite).  Then those who prefer to receive an acknowledgement
> > > can mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] and so on...
> > 
> > Other way: Let it verbose and everybody who dont want it writes to
> > -nonverbose.
> > So you dont break with the behavior it has now.
> 
> I prefer this way too, but would rather the extension be the shorter
> -quiet, which is much easier to remember and more standard than 
> -nonverbose.  We could even shorten it as far as -q if it doesn't
> conflict with something.

There's already a -quiet.  It doesn't mean what you think it does :)  I
believe it doesn't send to -bugs-dist - don't ask me how it's different
from -maintonly.

-- 
Daniel Jacobowitz   Carnegie Mellon University
MontaVista Software Debian GNU/Linux Developer


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Re: Debbugs and ACK messages

[Wichert Akkerman]

Previously Colin Walters wrote:
> Anyways, I personally don't like them either.  But there is
> probably someone out there who does, so really our only possible
> recourse is to make it an option.

Personally I dislike them.

> This gets tricky though, because right now the BTS isn't designed to
> do stuff depending on the submitter at all...

It's simple, just stick a flag in the mail headers.

Wichert.

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Bug#141099: ITP: xpilot-ng -- XPilot game "next generation"

[Ben Armstrong]

Package: wnpp
Version: N/A; reported 2002-04-03
Severity: wishlist

* Package name: xpilot-ng
  Version : 4.3.0X
  Upstream Author : Uoti Urpala 
* URL : http://xpilot.sf.net/
* License : GPL
  Description : XPilot game "next generation"

I am the maintainer for XPilot, and have been following this fork from the 
official
XPilot release for some time.  The polygon map format that it implements is a
radical departure from the official version which is why these changes aren't
presently integrated back into the official one.  That is to say, the map format
that the xpilot-ng server uses is fundamentally incompatible with official 
xpilot
clients.  That being said, the xpilot-ng client will work with both new and old
map formats.

My intent is to package the CVS version of xpilot-ng instead of the latest 
tarball,
as it is rather out of date.  I will periodically rebuild and upload new CVS 
versions
until such time as this project has established a regular release cycle of
distribution tarballs.

My packaging of 'xpilot-ng' will be done in such a way that integrates well with
the official 'xpilot' package:
  - sharing data files where appropriate
  - providing alternatives where appropriate
  - supporting multiple instances of the server on the same system without 
conflicts
so that a games server can serve users both with official and "next 
generation"
clients

Changes will be made to the official 'xpilot' package to accomodate for 
'xpilot-ng'
as needed.

Hm, what else ... umm ... you'll notice that there is a java map editor which
depends on a non-free implementation of java.  I won't be including that.  Uoti
Urpala has written a map editor in python, so I will include that instead.
There is also a C++ map editor, but that hasn't been worked on for many months.
Hopefully once we get more users for this version, that will help spur along
development of one or both of these editors.

Ben Armstrong
--
 ,-.  nSLUGhttp://www.nslug.ns.ca   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 \`'  Debian   http://www.debian.org[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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 [ pgp 7F DA 09 4B BA 2C 0D E0 1B B1 31 ED C6 A9 39 4F ]



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Re: c++ and unrecognized -D option on ia64

[Stefano Zacchiroli]

On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 08:00:11PM +0200, J.H.M. Dassen (Ray) wrote:
> The toolchain was fubar on an IA64 build daemon host; see
> http://bugs.debian.org/140969 .

Thanks for the pointer, all is ok now and indeed gtkmathview was
successfully built on ia64.

Cheers.

-- 
Stefano Zacchiroli - undergraduate student of CS @ Univ. Bologna, Italy
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | ICQ# 33538863 | http://www.cs.unibo.it/~zacchiro
"I know you believe you understood what you think I said, but I am not
sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!" -- G.Romney


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Re: Debbugs and ACK messages

[CS/MATH stud.]

In Joerg Jaspert's email, 03-04-2002:
> Doug Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > I suspect there will be enough people on both sides of this
> > issue.  How about defaulting to non-verbose behavior, and having
> > a `-verbose' variant of all the BTS addresses (or even the
> > opposite).  Then those who prefer to receive an acknowledgement
> > can mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] and so on...
> 
> Other way: Let it verbose and everybody who dont want it writes to
> -nonverbose.
> So you dont break with the behavior it has now.

I prefer this way too, but would rather the extension be the shorter
-quiet, which is much easier to remember and more standard than 
-nonverbose.  We could even shorten it as far as -q if it doesn't
conflict with something.

-- 
Michael Janssen -- Jamuraa -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
GPG KEY 0xc00e9159  ---  http://www.base0.net  ---  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"The most overlooked  advantage of  owning a  computer is that if they 
foul up  there's  no law against  whacking them  around  a bit." -- EP


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Re: on potato's proftpd

[Petro]

On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 10:56:32AM +0900, Howland, Curtis wrote:
> I would bet that the vast majority of "flame wars" begin because someone 
> mistakes "terse" or "concise" for hostility.
> 
> The reverse, being the endless spewing of meaningless words, all the while 
> saying nothing at all or even the opposite of what it sounds like, is the art 
> of politicians and diplomats.
> 
> I'll take a flame war any day, when compared to the alternative.



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Re: Debbugs and ACK messages

[Matt Zimmerman]

On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 03:20:31PM -0500, Doug Porter wrote:

> Daniel Jacobowitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > Is there anyone out there who actually appreciates the storms
> > of "Information received" acks that debbugs generates?  If not,
> > it is fairly simple to turn them off - we just need to decide
> > to do so.
> 
> I suspect there will be enough people on both sides of this
> issue.  How about defaulting to non-verbose behavior, and having
> a `-verbose' variant of all the BTS addresses (or even the
> opposite).  Then those who prefer to receive an acknowledgement
> can mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] and so on...

I agree that this should be optional behaviour, if at all.  In at least one
circumstance, an upstream was opposed to CCing the BTS when discussing a
bug, because all of those involved were spammed with the acknowledgements.

-- 
 - mdz


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Re: Description to man pages

[David Roundy]

On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 10:45:29PM +0200, Otto Wyss wrote:
> Since I hated to start dselect again and again just to read a package
> description I wrote a script "dsc2man" which creates appropriate man
> pages for each package. 

Wouldn't it be easier to just use apt-cache show ?
-- 
David Roundy
http://civet.berkeley.edu/droundy/


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Re: Description to man pages

[Michael Banck]

On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 10:45:29PM +0200, Otto Wyss wrote:
> Since I hated to start dselect again and again just to read a package
> description I wrote a script "dsc2man" which creates appropriate man
> pages for each package. 

Apart from this being quite cool, you surely know that you can read
packages' description via

apt-cache show 

or

dpkg -s 

?

Michael, just asking

-- 
"Don't come crying to me about your "30 minute compiles"!!  I have to build X
uphill both ways!  In the snow!  With bare feet! And we didn't have compilers!
We had to translate the C code to mnemonics OURSELVES! And I was 18 before we
even had assemblers!"   -- 


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Re: Debbugs and ACK messages

[Daniel Jacobowitz]

On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 10:38:30PM +0200, Bas Zoetekouw wrote:
> Hi Doug!
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> > I suspect there will be enough people on both sides of this
> > issue.  How about defaulting to non-verbose behavior, and having
> > a `-verbose' variant of all the BTS addresses (or even the
> > opposite).  Then those who prefer to receive an acknowledgement
> > can mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] and so on...
> 
> Or how about just adding a simple procmail rule if you don't want the
> ACK's?

Because the point of my original message was to not clutter everyone
who doesn't want them with ACKs.  For instance, users, and third-party
bug tracking systems.  This was prompted by the GCC GNATS system, which
has dozens of PRs created by these ACKs.  There's no good reason GNATS
should have to know anything about Debbugs.

Why send out messages with no informational content if all or most
people are just going to discard them?

-- 
Daniel Jacobowitz   Carnegie Mellon University
MontaVista Software Debian GNU/Linux Developer


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Re: Description to man pages

[Thom May]

* Otto Wyss ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote :
> Since I hated to start dselect again and again just to read a package
> description I wrote a script "dsc2man" which creates appropriate man
> pages for each package. 
> 
> To minimize possible conflicts with other names it creates man pages in
> section 6 (games!). Of course this can be configured in the config file.
> I'd rather like to know which is a better place for it.
> 
> The script does only create pages if none exists. But for upgrading the
> force switch has to be used, which means any existing page will be
> overwritten.
> 
> The script can be down loaded from
> "http://dpartialmirror.sourceforge.net/dsc2man.html";
> 
> O. Wyss
> 
Is it better than `apt-cache show foo` ?
-Thom


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Re: Debbugs and ACK messages

[Daniel Jacobowitz]

On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 03:20:31PM -0500, Doug Porter wrote:
> Daniel Jacobowitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > Is there anyone out there who actually appreciates the storms
> > of "Information received" acks that debbugs generates?  If not,
> > it is fairly simple to turn them off - we just need to decide
> > to do so.
> 
> I suspect there will be enough people on both sides of this
> issue.  How about defaulting to non-verbose behavior, and having
> a `-verbose' variant of all the BTS addresses (or even the
> opposite).  Then those who prefer to receive an acknowledgement
> can mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] and so on...

I like this.  It's simpler than maintaining lists of who wants acks...

-- 
Daniel Jacobowitz   Carnegie Mellon University
MontaVista Software Debian GNU/Linux Developer


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Re: Bug#141070: ITP: aptconf -- debconf infrastructure for setting up apt sources

[Jeff Licquia]

On Wed, 2002-04-03 at 13:38, Rob Bradford wrote:
> Ooh nice, maybe you could integrate with apt-spy or something to find
> the fastest for the user?

I don't see why not, though I'd be more inclined to add pin support
first.  I had a crazy idea of doing directed graphs for country support,
so you could just pick your country and the software would find the
"closest" mirror.

As a side issue, the repository description files will contain mirror
information in a standard, easy-to-parse format.  Perhaps apt-spy could
use those if available, and could then perform its function on any
repository instead of just Debian's.


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Re: Debbugs and ACK messages

[Joerg Jaspert]

Doug Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I suspect there will be enough people on both sides of this
> issue.  How about defaulting to non-verbose behavior, and having
> a `-verbose' variant of all the BTS addresses (or even the
> opposite).  Then those who prefer to receive an acknowledgement
> can mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] and so on...

Other way: Let it verbose and everybody who dont want it writes to
-nonverbose.
So you dont break with the behavior it has now.

-- 
begin  OjE-ist-scheisse.txt
bye, Joerg
Registered Linux User #97793 @ http://counter.li.org
end


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Description to man pages

[Otto Wyss]

Since I hated to start dselect again and again just to read a package
description I wrote a script "dsc2man" which creates appropriate man
pages for each package. 

To minimize possible conflicts with other names it creates man pages in
section 6 (games!). Of course this can be configured in the config file.
I'd rather like to know which is a better place for it.

The script does only create pages if none exists. But for upgrading the
force switch has to be used, which means any existing page will be
overwritten.

The script can be down loaded from
"http://dpartialmirror.sourceforge.net/dsc2man.html";

O. Wyss

-- 
Author of "Debian partial mirror synch script"
("http://dpartialmirror.sourceforge.net/";)


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Re: Debbugs and ACK messages

[Bas Zoetekouw]

Hi Doug!

You wrote:

> I suspect there will be enough people on both sides of this
> issue.  How about defaulting to non-verbose behavior, and having
> a `-verbose' variant of all the BTS addresses (or even the
> opposite).  Then those who prefer to receive an acknowledgement
> can mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] and so on...

Or how about just adding a simple procmail rule if you don't want the
ACK's?

-- 
Kind regards,
+---+
| Bas Zoetekouw  | Si l'on sait exactement ce   |
|| que l'on va faire, a quoi|
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] | bon le faire?|
|[EMAIL PROTECTED] |   Pablo Picasso  |
+---+ 


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Re: Debbugs and ACK messages

[Michael Stone]

On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 03:20:31PM -0500, Doug Porter wrote:
> I suspect there will be enough people on both sides of this
> issue.  How about defaulting to non-verbose behavior, and having
> a `-verbose' variant of all the BTS addresses (or even the
> opposite).  Then those who prefer to receive an acknowledgement
> can mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] and so on...

And I was worried that the BTS wasn't complicated enough already!

-- 
Mike Stone


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Re: Uplink release with Debian

[Joseph Carter]

On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 02:18:57PM +0100, Mark A. Morris wrote:
> HI,
> I represent Introversion Software (www.introversion.co.uk).
> We are currently releasing our first computer game - Uplink.  Uplink is
> a puzzle / adventure game set on the internet of 2010.  We have both
> windows and Linux versions available, and we are hoping to work with
> various Linux distributions in a mutually beneficial relationship.  We
> are asking you to include a copy of the Uplink demo with your Linux
> distribution, we get the benefit of publicity and your users get the
> benefit of playing a high-quality Linux game.  We have already had
> success with Mandrake, and now we are hoping you will consider our
> offer.
>  
> If you have any further questions or queries, please do not hesitate to
> contact me.

Debian generally does not do this sort of thing for commercial software.
What a developer can do if he is inclined to do so is build an installer
package for the archive.

Personally I'm not terribly fond of these installers and would much rather
have Introversion host an aptable archive containing the latest patches to
Uplink.  It's generally not difficult to set up such a thing and if you
are interested in doing it I'd be happy to help with setting it up - it's
really not difficult at all.


I'm probably not an ideal person for building the packages as I am
currently on a modem (and miss my broadband greatly!) and don't happen to
have a copy of Uplink yet.  Those damned living expenses getting in the
way of the really important things like games, you understand.  =)

-- 
Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Certified free software nut
 
 you should be afraid to use KDE because RMS might come to your
  house and cleave your monitor with an axe or something :)



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Re: Debbugs and ACK messages

[Doug Porter]

Daniel Jacobowitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> Is there anyone out there who actually appreciates the storms
> of "Information received" acks that debbugs generates?  If not,
> it is fairly simple to turn them off - we just need to decide
> to do so.

I suspect there will be enough people on both sides of this
issue.  How about defaulting to non-verbose behavior, and having
a `-verbose' variant of all the BTS addresses (or even the
opposite).  Then those who prefer to receive an acknowledgement
can mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] and so on...

-- 
Doug Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: Debbugs and ACK messages

[Colin Walters]

On Wed, 2002-04-03 at 14:18, Daniel Jacobowitz wrote:
> Is there anyone out there who actually appreciates the storms of
> "Information received" acks that debbugs generates?  If not, it is
> fairly simple to turn them off - we just need to decide to do so.

I think this has come up before, but I can't find it in the -devel
archives.  Anyways, I personally don't like them either.  But there is
probably someone out there who does, so really our only possible
recourse is to make it an option.  This gets tricky though, because
right now the BTS isn't designed to do stuff depending on the submitter
at all...except for one, ah, special case.



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[tela] strange buildd error on hppa--please have a look

[Mikael Hedin]

Hi!

The latest autobuild of tela failed with the following error (see
http://buildd.debian.org/fetch.php?&pkg=tela&ver=1.34-4&arch=hppa&stamp=1017793182&file=log&as=raw):

objarithm.C: In function `void Min(Tobject&, const Tobject&)':
objarithm.C:1464: Internal error: Segmentation fault
Please submit a full bug report,
with preprocessed source if appropriate.
See http://www.gnu.org/software/gcc/bugs.html> for instructions.

Can somebody with access to a hppa system help me?

/Micce

-- 
Mikael Hedin, MSc   +46 (0)980 79176
Swedish Institute of Space Physics  +46 (0)8 344979 (home)
Box 812, S-981 28 KIRUNA, Sweden+46 (0)70 5891533 (mobile)
[gpg key fingerprint = 387F A8DB DC2A 50E3 FE26  30C4 5793 29D3 C01B 2A22]


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Re: Debbugs and ACK messages

[Gergely Nagy]

> Is there anyone out there who actually appreciates the storms of
> "Information received" acks that debbugs generates?  If not, it is
> fairly simple to turn them off - we just need to decide to do so.

I do. If lists are slow, I get an ACK back quickly, and won't wonder
for hours if my mail got through (flaky connection, ISP & whatnot).


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Debbugs and ACK messages

[Daniel Jacobowitz]

Is there anyone out there who actually appreciates the storms of
"Information received" acks that debbugs generates?  If not, it is
fairly simple to turn them off - we just need to decide to do so.

-- 
Daniel Jacobowitz   Carnegie Mellon University
MontaVista Software Debian GNU/Linux Developer


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Re: Uplink release with Debian

[Sean Middleditch]

On Wed, 2002-04-03 at 13:40, Rob Bradford wrote:
> On Wed, 2002-04-03 at 16:32, Sean Middleditch wrote:
> > I'll go ahead an e-mail some of the game companies, if you or anyone
> > else really wants to help, I can get debiangames.org registered and find
> > a decent host.  ^,^
> 
> We can host this on the debianplanet.org machine, which has surplus
> bandwidth and cpu cycles =)

Well, sweet.  Joe Wreschnig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said he has installer
packages for Uplink.  When I get home today (at work now) I'll find the
e-mail address for various Linux game companies, and see what we can
come up with.

Now just need someone with passable site design skills to build a site
(because mine would be just plain text, which isn't very fitting for a
gaming site).

Maybe we can have articles for Debian specific gaming issues and so on,
as well.  ^,^

> 
> Cheers
> -- 
> Rob 'robster' Bradford
> http://robster.org.uk




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Re: Uplink release with Debian

[Rob Bradford]

On Wed, 2002-04-03 at 16:32, Sean Middleditch wrote:
> I'll go ahead an e-mail some of the game companies, if you or anyone
> else really wants to help, I can get debiangames.org registered and find
> a decent host.  ^,^

We can host this on the debianplanet.org machine, which has surplus
bandwidth and cpu cycles =)

Cheers
-- 
Rob 'robster' Bradford
http://robster.org.uk


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Re: Bug#141070: ITP: aptconf -- debconf infrastructure for setting up apt sources

[Rob Bradford]

On Wed, 2002-04-03 at 18:11, Jeff Licquia wrote:
> Package: wnpp
> Severity: wishlist
> 
> Aptconf will allow users to configure sources.list via debconf.  It
> will also contain a configlet for setting up sources.list via the
> GNOME Control Center, in druids, and potentially other settings.

Ooh nice, maybe you could integrate with apt-spy or something to find
the fastest for the user?

Cheers
-- 
Rob 'robster' Bradford
http://robster.org.uk


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Re: debmirroring...

[Jose Carlos Garcia Sogo]

On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 04:27:33PM +0200, Francesco P. Lovergine wrote:
> Hi debfolks
> 
> I'm using this command:
> 
> debmirror /users/debian --nosource -h  -d woody
> 
> in order to have a local copy of i386 stuff for our net.
> What is the damn reason why it copies potato distribution instead?
> I'm missing something?
> 
  It starts by copying the packages that are still in both potato and
  woody. After doing that it goes on with woody packages. Currently
  packages still in potato are 96MB

  See you

José Carlos García Sogo
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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RE: Anybody want to adopt cdrecord?

[David D.W. Downey]

Looks like it doesn't matter anymore. I've been removed as the new
maitnainer by erik due to the 2 week delay.

Once again, I apologize for the delay on the package but it couldn't be
helped. Hopefully I can assist on some other package.


--
David D.W. Downey ("pgpkeys") <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
libpam-pgsql Home Site: http://libpam-pgsql.codecastle.com
Newbies: http://linuxnewbie.codecastle.com Admins:
http://admin.codecastle.com
Developers: http://devel.codecastle.com && http://lfs.codecastle.com




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Re: c++ and unrecognized -D option on ia64

[J.H.M. Dassen \(Ray\)]

On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 18:03:14 +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> I'm asking here because the failure seems to be due to the "c++"
> compiler that doesn't recognize the "-Dsomething" option.

The toolchain was fubar on an IA64 build daemon host; see
http://bugs.debian.org/140969 .

HTH,
Ray
-- 
THEY planted The Lone Gunmen to MIND CONTROL the public into seeing TRUTH
SEEKERS as CONSPIRACY NUTS.


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RE: Anybody want to adopt cdrecord?

[David D.W. Downey]

I do plan on doing a maintiner release shortly. I'm in the middle of
moving though. That's what the delay is about. Plese just give me some
time to complete this move. (tough trying to move an entire house)

I apologize for the delay.


--
David D.W. Downey ("pgpkeys") <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
libpam-pgsql Home Site: http://libpam-pgsql.codecastle.com
Newbies: http://linuxnewbie.codecastle.com Admins:
http://admin.codecastle.com
Developers: http://devel.codecastle.com && http://lfs.codecastle.com


-Original Message-
From: Adam Byrtek [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 11:12 PM
To: Erik Andersen; debian-devel@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Anybody want to adopt cdrecord?


On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:32:48AM -0700, Erik Andersen wrote:
> After a bit of discussion on availability of the needed cdwriting 
> equipment, etc. I have agreed to let David Downey take over 
> maintainence of cdrtools.  Thanks David!  I'm sure everyone will be 
> grateful as you fix the bugs I've not had time to address,

What's going on with cdrecord? The maintaner hasn't changed yet, and
there is a big bug in it (important, but i'm thinking about upgrading it
to critical):

#131325: cdrecord: crashes on 2.2.20

It *has* to be fixed before Woody! In fact I'm still using old (1.9-1)
cdrecord because of this bug...

Regards
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Anybody want to adopt cdrecord?

[Erik Andersen]

On Wed Apr 03, 2002 at 03:52:10PM +0200, Eduard Bloch wrote:
> #include 
> Adam Byrtek wrote on Wed Apr 03, 2002 um 09:12:02AM:
> 
> > #131325: cdrecord: crashes on 2.2.20
> > 
> > It *has* to be fixed before Woody! In fact I'm still using old (1.9-1)
> > cdrecord because of this bug...
> 
> Yes, it has.
> 
> Erik: What about that patch for cdrecord, needed to not to depend on the
> running kernel? Why cannot we have to versions, cdrecord-2.4.x and
> cdrecord-2.4.x?

I have not had the time to work in it, so on March 21st I put
cdrtools up for adoption.  David Downey agreed to take over, but
it has been 2 weeks since then and he hasn't yet bothered to
upload a new package yet.  Since he hasn't done that yet, I guess
I'm still the nominal maintainer.  As such, if someone else that
_is_ willing to do that job and wants to take over 

As for the 2.4.x vs 2.2.x stuff, it would be easy to make a patch
to test the mmap behavior at runtime and then do the right thing.
I havn't had the time to write such a patch, but that would take
care of the problem once and for all.  Setting compile bahavior
based on the kernel running on the compiling box is just lame,
but thats what cdrecord does

 -Erik

--
Erik B. Andersen http://codepoet-consulting.com/
--This message was written using 73% post-consumer electrons--


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Bug#141070: ITP: aptconf -- debconf infrastructure for setting up apt sources

[Jeff Licquia]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist

Aptconf will allow users to configure sources.list via debconf.  It
will also contain a configlet for setting up sources.list via the
GNOME Control Center, in druids, and potentially other settings.

The architecture will treat the existing sources.list as the canonical
source for the current configuration; debconf will not be used as a
registry.  Additionally, every care will be taken to preserve user
edits - comments, hand-edited repositories, and so forth.

The primary user interface will consist of a list of repositories
(with user-friendly descriptions, like "Debian stable archive") and
the ability to select which will be active.  The list of repositories
shown will be configurable via repository descriptions dropped in a
directory.  Repositories with description will provide the option of
selecting mirrors and enabling deb-src lines.  Custom repositories and
CD-ROMs will also be supported.

Long-term, editing pins may also be supported, although it is not
planned for the first release.


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Re: SSMTP is it a bug ?

[R . Pac]

>yes, I've seen this too, and its in the BTS already, a pointer into a
>string is being freed.

So, we have to wait and see ?

Anyway, I would like to know, if you have seen some weeks ago, I had
problem for sending mail (with mutt and ssmtp) signed with GnuPGP.

I had this error :
http://pobox.com/~djb/docs/smtplf.html

Did you notice the same thing ?

Do you know where does it come from ?


Best Regards
R.Pac


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Re: on potato's proftpd

[Andrew Pimlott]

[ Followup to incomplete send. ]

On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 10:54:25AM -0500, Andrew Pimlott wrote:
> I think Wichert's position

... reflects appropriate discipline, given the (relatively modest)
severity of the problem.

Andrew


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Re: Uplink release with Debian

[Joe Wreschnig]

Mark,

I've had a third party Uplink Debian package available -
http://www.sacredchao.net/software/dists/unstable/main/binary-i386/games/uplink_2_i386.deb.
The package itself is just an installer, but it can install the demo, or
off the Uplink CD, and patch an installed copy. I emailed Chris Delay
about it a while ago, and posted it to the forums, but it never got
linked off the download page or "Other Files" section.

No matter what you do, Debian isn't going to include Uplink, because
it's not DFSG-free software ("open source"). On the other hand, Cc:ing
-devel in case one of the official developers wants to hammer my work
into something suitable for contrib (a non-official part of Debian that
many users of Debian get packages from).
-- 
 - Joe Wreschnig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  -  http://www.sacredchao.net
  "What I did was justified because I had a policy of my own... It's
   okay to be different, to not conform to society."
   -- Chen Kenichi, Iron Chef Chinese


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Re: on potato's proftpd

[Andrew Pimlott]

On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 03:22:39AM +0200, martin f krafft wrote:
> but give me at least one argument why these acts cannot combine with
> a *temporary* fix uploaded to the so-called "security archives".

There are several good reasons:

  - If a band-aid fix is allowed, there is less incentive to find
the correct fix.

  - If the problem isn't understood, there is a good chance that the
band-aid doesn't really fix the problem, and a fair chance that
it creates new problems.  If there are related problems (eg,
similar bugs in different programs), they may go undiscovered.

  - Users would have to upgrade again when the permanent fix is
released.  People running production systems like to minimize
changes, so this could make them unhappy.

I think Wichert's position

Andrew


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c++ and unrecognized -D option on ia64

[Stefano Zacchiroli]

Hi all,
  one package of mine doesn't build on ia64. Namely the package is
gtkmathview 0.3.0-4 and the build log which report the failure is at
http://buildd.debian.org/fetch.php?&pkg=gtkmathview&ver=0.3.0-4&arch=ia64&stamp=1017745642&file=log&as=raw.

I'm asking here because the failure seems to be due to the "c++"
compiler that doesn't recognize the "-Dsomething" option. I can't
reproduce the problem doing some stupid C++ test on merulo and the
upstream author (CCed) doesn't have an IA64 machine to perform some
test.

Any hint?

-- 
Stefano Zacchiroli - undergraduate student of CS @ Univ. Bologna, Italy
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | ICQ# 33538863 | http://www.cs.unibo.it/~zacchiro
"I know you believe you understood what you think I said, but I am not
sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!" -- G.Romney


pgpL9wIF2pQVV.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Uplink release with Debian

[Sean Middleditch]

On Wed, 2002-04-03 at 10:18, Russell Coker wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Apr 2002 17:10, Sean Middleditch wrote:
> > > Maybe you could run such a site and use it to promote your AwesomePlay
> > > company?  I doubt that your company would be seen as a competitor of
> > > Introvision and they would probably be happy to work with you.  Maybe
> > > they'd even pay you to produce the Debian packages of their software?
> >
> > Heh.  If only I was that talented.  I'll look into it, tho.  I had
> > started Open Games, and sort of lost interest... maybe I could start
> > that back up again. ^,^  (With a site design that doesn't induce
> > vomitting, like the current one.)
> 
> It's not that difficult to do.  Also you could sub-contract parts of the work 
> out to some of the people here if you can't do it all.  I'd consider doing 
> some of the work.

^,^  Well, I'm right now looking over my current resources (i.e. time,
web space, experience, etc.) and I think the only problem I'd really
have is that I have the web design talents of a diseased monkey on a
stick.  (As you can see from looking at any of the sites I've worked on
all by myself - the only things I've done that are good my best friend,
who is an awesome artist, helped with.)

However, starting a site for this with just one game isn't quite worth
the effort, and Loki is out of it, so I'd need to find other game
companies to work with (already added id to the list, and going to add
bioware/infogrames).

I suppose with some help, slapping together a debiangames.org, including
an apt-gettable list of game demoes, gaming news regarding packages in
Debian, forums, etc. wouldn't be bad.  It's just getting the companies
to let us package the games, and building the site content (I hate the
way every 4 out of 5 oss/linux sites are just PHPNuke or one of its
cousins - it gets very old very quickly)

I'll go ahead an e-mail some of the game companies, if you or anyone
else really wants to help, I can get debiangames.org registered and find
a decent host.  ^,^

> 
> -- 
> If you send email to me or to a mailing list that I use which has >4 lines
> of legalistic junk at the end then you are specifically authorizing me to do
> whatever I wish with the message and all other messages from your domain, by
> posting the message you agree that your long legalistic sig is void.
> 
> 
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sm-msp-queue log spew after yesterday's sendmail upgrade

[Thomas E. Vaughan]

Logcheck is suddenly spewing a bunch of stuff at me.  I
attach an example.  Mail seems to work well enough, though.

Does anybody know about this?

-- 
Thomas E. Vaughan
Ball Aerospace, Boulder
(303) 939-6386
Ball-internal home page: http://hypostasis/~tevaugha

--- Begin Message ---
This mail is sent by logcheck. If you do not want to receive it any more,
please modify the configuration files in /etc/logcheck or deinstall logcheck.

Possible Security Violations
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Apr  3 07:10:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4604]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
verify locs /etc/ssl/certs/, /etc/ssl/certs/sendmail.pem failed: 0
Apr  3 07:10:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4604]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
verify locs /etc/ssl/certs/, /etc/ssl/certs/sendmail.pem failed: 0
Apr  3 07:10:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4604]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
verify locs /etc/ssl/certs/, /etc/ssl/certs/sendmail.pem failed: 0
Apr  3 07:10:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4604]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
verify locs /etc/ssl/certs/, /etc/ssl/certs/sendmail.pem failed: 0
Apr  3 07:20:02 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4649]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
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Apr  3 07:20:02 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4649]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
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Apr  3 07:20:02 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4649]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
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Apr  3 07:20:02 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4649]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
verify locs /etc/ssl/certs/, /etc/ssl/certs/sendmail.pem failed: 0
Apr  3 07:30:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4707]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
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Apr  3 07:30:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4707]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
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Apr  3 07:30:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4707]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
verify locs /etc/ssl/certs/, /etc/ssl/certs/sendmail.pem failed: 0
Apr  3 07:30:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4707]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
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Apr  3 07:40:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4787]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
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Apr  3 07:40:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4787]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
verify locs /etc/ssl/certs/, /etc/ssl/certs/sendmail.pem failed: 0
Apr  3 07:40:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4787]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
verify locs /etc/ssl/certs/, /etc/ssl/certs/sendmail.pem failed: 0
Apr  3 07:40:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4787]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
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Apr  3 07:50:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4833]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
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Apr  3 07:50:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4833]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
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Apr  3 07:50:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4833]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
verify locs /etc/ssl/certs/, /etc/ssl/certs/sendmail.pem failed: 0
Apr  3 07:50:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4833]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
verify locs /etc/ssl/certs/, /etc/ssl/certs/sendmail.pem failed: 0
Apr  3 08:00:02 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4896]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
verify locs /etc/ssl/certs/, /etc/ssl/certs/sendmail.pem failed: 0
Apr  3 08:00:02 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4896]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
verify locs /etc/ssl/certs/, /etc/ssl/certs/sendmail.pem failed: 0
Apr  3 08:00:02 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4896]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
verify locs /etc/ssl/certs/, /etc/ssl/certs/sendmail.pem failed: 0
Apr  3 08:00:02 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4896]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
verify locs /etc/ssl/certs/, /etc/ssl/certs/sendmail.pem failed: 0

Unusual System Events
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Apr  3 07:10:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4604]: STARTTLS=client: file 
/etc/mail/ssl/sendmail-client.crt unsafe: No such file or directory
Apr  3 07:10:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4604]: STARTTLS=client: file 
/etc/mail/ssl/sendmail-common.key unsafe: No such file or directory
Apr  3 07:10:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4604]: STARTTLS=client: file 
/etc/ssl/certs/sendmail.pem unsafe: No such file or directory
Apr  3 07:10:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4604]: STARTTLS=client, error: load 
verify locs /etc/ssl/certs/, /etc/ssl/certs/sendmail.pem failed: 0
Apr  3 07:10:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4604]: STARTTLS=client: file 
/etc/mail/ssl/sendmail-client.crt unsafe: No such file or directory
Apr  3 07:10:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4604]: STARTTLS=client: file 
/etc/mail/ssl/sendmail-common.key unsafe: No such file or directory
Apr  3 07:10:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4604]: STARTTLS=client: file 
/etc/ssl/certs/sendmail.pem unsafe: No such file or directory
Apr  3 07:10:01 hypostasis sm-msp-queue[4604]: STA

Re: Uplink release with Debian

[Russell Coker]

On Wed, 3 Apr 2002 17:10, Sean Middleditch wrote:
> > Maybe you could run such a site and use it to promote your AwesomePlay
> > company?  I doubt that your company would be seen as a competitor of
> > Introvision and they would probably be happy to work with you.  Maybe
> > they'd even pay you to produce the Debian packages of their software?
>
> Heh.  If only I was that talented.  I'll look into it, tho.  I had
> started Open Games, and sort of lost interest... maybe I could start
> that back up again. ^,^  (With a site design that doesn't induce
> vomitting, like the current one.)

It's not that difficult to do.  Also you could sub-contract parts of the work 
out to some of the people here if you can't do it all.  I'd consider doing 
some of the work.

-- 
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whatever I wish with the message and all other messages from your domain, by
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Re: Uplink release with Debian

[Sean Middleditch]

On Wed, 2002-04-03 at 09:50, Russell Coker wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Apr 2002 16:01, Sean Middleditch wrote:
> > > > I represent Introversion Software (www.introversion.co.uk).
> > > > We are currently releasing our first computer game - Uplink.  Uplink is
> > >
> > > Let us know when you've published the source to the Demo and we'll
> > > consider it.
> >
> > There's always Contrib.
> 
> Which can't be included on CDs or DVDs and generally doesn't get seen much.

Ah, I didn't know that.  Sorry.  ^,^

(I should bother looking thru what my CD's actually have on them...)

> 
> > I think having game demos in non-free/contrib of Debian would be
> > awesome.  Yes, you're helping the companies make money, but you're also
> > making Debian a little more attractive to the average consumer.
> 
> Why not set up a separate site for Debian packages of game demos?  There's 
> currently a site with an aptable list of DIVX/CSS/etc, there's a site with 
> KDE betas, why not a site with game demos?

That's an idea.  Doesn't Ximian provide this for games with RedCarpet
(They do with RedHat, I know that)?

> 
> Maybe you could run such a site and use it to promote your AwesomePlay 
> company?  I doubt that your company would be seen as a competitor of 
> Introvision and they would probably be happy to work with you.  Maybe they'd 
> even pay you to produce the Debian packages of their software?

Heh.  If only I was that talented.  I'll look into it, tho.  I had
started Open Games, and sort of lost interest... maybe I could start
that back up again. ^,^  (With a site design that doesn't induce
vomitting, like the current one.)

> 
> -- 
> If you send email to me or to a mailing list that I use which has >4 lines
> of legalistic junk at the end then you are specifically authorizing me to do
> whatever I wish with the message and all other messages from your domain, by
> posting the message you agree that your long legalistic sig is void.
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: BSP?

[Colin Watson]

On Wed, Apr 03, 2002 at 01:54:46PM +0200, Josip Rodin wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 01, 2002 at 03:20:43PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> > Isn't it about time for another BSP? It's been a month; I see quite a
> > lot of RC bugs in the bts with patches.
> 
> How about this weekend? What's required to coordinate a BSP anyway?

Firstly, a post to debian-devel-announce to give everyone fair warning;
secondly, people to be around during the BSP to offer advice to
newcomers, make sponsored uploads where necessary, hand bugs to people
who aren't used to just picking one off the pile, and keep track of what
people are working on.

It can also be useful to prepare a triaged list beforehand of bugs that
need work (I did that once and it seemed to be very helpful).

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Uplink release with Debian

[Russell Coker]

On Wed, 3 Apr 2002 16:01, Sean Middleditch wrote:
> > > I represent Introversion Software (www.introversion.co.uk).
> > > We are currently releasing our first computer game - Uplink.  Uplink is
> >
> > Let us know when you've published the source to the Demo and we'll
> > consider it.
>
> There's always Contrib.

Which can't be included on CDs or DVDs and generally doesn't get seen much.

> I think having game demos in non-free/contrib of Debian would be
> awesome.  Yes, you're helping the companies make money, but you're also
> making Debian a little more attractive to the average consumer.

Why not set up a separate site for Debian packages of game demos?  There's 
currently a site with an aptable list of DIVX/CSS/etc, there's a site with 
KDE betas, why not a site with game demos?

Maybe you could run such a site and use it to promote your AwesomePlay 
company?  I doubt that your company would be seen as a competitor of 
Introvision and they would probably be happy to work with you.  Maybe they'd 
even pay you to produce the Debian packages of their software?

-- 
If you send email to me or to a mailing list that I use which has >4 lines
of legalistic junk at the end then you are specifically authorizing me to do
whatever I wish with the message and all other messages from your domain, by
posting the message you agree that your long legalistic sig is void.


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debmirroring...

[Francesco P. Lovergine]

Hi debfolks

I'm using this command:

debmirror /users/debian --nosource -h  -d woody

in order to have a local copy of i386 stuff for our net.
What is the damn reason why it copies potato distribution instead?
I'm missing something?


Thanks

PS: please cc me...


-- 
Francesco P. Lovergine


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Re: Uplink release with Debian

[Sean Middleditch]

On Wed, 2002-04-03 at 08:30, Russell Coker wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Apr 2002 15:18, Mark A. Morris wrote:
> > I represent Introversion Software (www.introversion.co.uk).
> > We are currently releasing our first computer game - Uplink.  Uplink is
> > a puzzle / adventure game set on the internet of 2010.  We have both
> > windows and Linux versions available, and we are hoping to work with
> > various Linux distributions in a mutually beneficial relationship.  We
> > are asking you to include a copy of the Uplink demo with your Linux
> > distribution, we get the benefit of publicity and your users get the
> > benefit of playing a high-quality Linux game.  We have already had
> > success with Mandrake, and now we are hoping you will consider our
> > offer.
> >
> > If you have any further questions or queries, please do not hesitate to
> > contact me.
> 
> Let us know when you've published the source to the Demo and we'll consider 
> it.

There's always Contrib.

I think having game demos in non-free/contrib of Debian would be
awesome.  Yes, you're helping the companies make money, but you're also
making Debian a little more attractive to the average consumer.

Without any commercial interest in Linux/BSD/etc., none of them would
have gotten quite as far as they have (those companies *have* sunk lots
of money and manpower into our efforts).  Games are one of the things
that push consumer hard-ware and driver developments to the max.  ^,^

> 
> -- 
> If you send email to me or to a mailing list that I use which has >4 lines
> of legalistic junk at the end then you are specifically authorizing me to do
> whatever I wish with the message and all other messages from your domain, by
> posting the message you agree that your long legalistic sig is void.
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: Anybody want to adopt cdrecord?

[Eduard Bloch]

#include 
Adam Byrtek wrote on Wed Apr 03, 2002 um 09:12:02AM:

> #131325: cdrecord: crashes on 2.2.20
> 
> It *has* to be fixed before Woody! In fact I'm still using old (1.9-1)
> cdrecord because of this bug...

Yes, it has.

Erik: What about that patch for cdrecord, needed to not to depend on the
running kernel? Why cannot we have to versions, cdrecord-2.4.x and
cdrecord-2.4.x?

Gruss/Regards,
Eduard.
-- 
Real programmers don't comment their code.  It was hard to write, it
should be hard to understand.


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Re: Uplink release with Debian

[Russell Coker]

On Wed, 3 Apr 2002 15:18, Mark A. Morris wrote:
> I represent Introversion Software (www.introversion.co.uk).
> We are currently releasing our first computer game - Uplink.  Uplink is
> a puzzle / adventure game set on the internet of 2010.  We have both
> windows and Linux versions available, and we are hoping to work with
> various Linux distributions in a mutually beneficial relationship.  We
> are asking you to include a copy of the Uplink demo with your Linux
> distribution, we get the benefit of publicity and your users get the
> benefit of playing a high-quality Linux game.  We have already had
> success with Mandrake, and now we are hoping you will consider our
> offer.
>
> If you have any further questions or queries, please do not hesitate to
> contact me.

Let us know when you've published the source to the Demo and we'll consider 
it.

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Uplink release with Debian

[Mark A. Morris]

HI,

    I represent
Introversion Software (www.introversion.co.uk). 
We are currently releasing our first computer game – Uplink.  Uplink is a puzzle / adventure game set on
the internet of 2010.  We have both
windows and Linux versions available, and we are hoping to work with various
Linux distributions in a mutually beneficial relationship.  We are asking you to include a copy of the
Uplink demo with your Linux distribution, we get the benefit of publicity and
your users get the benefit of playing a high-quality Linux game.  We have already had success with Mandrake,
and now we are hoping you will consider our offer.

 

If you have any further questions or queries, please do not
hesitate to contact me.

 

 

Mark Morris

Director

 

Tel: 0207 419 2298 / 07775 654 527

Fax: 0207 813 2862

 

===

Introversion Software

PO Box 3210, Glastonbury, Somerset, BA6 8WF

 






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Re: ITP: vls -- the VideoLAN MPEG broadcasting server

[Samuel Hocevar]

On Wed, Apr 03, 2002, Hereward Cooper wrote:

> Erh... Aren't there are some already @:
> http://www.videolan.org/pub/videolan/vls/0.3.1/deb/vls_0.3.1-1_i386.deb
> http://www.videolan.org/pub/videolan/vls/0.3.1/deb/vls-dvd_0.3.1-1_i386.deb
> 
> Though they could do with being put in the archive and ported.

   Yes, they're done by me as well, but vls wasn't mature enough for
inclusion in Debian (compared to vlc) so I was waiting a bit before my
ITP.

Regards,
-- 
Sam.


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Re: ITP: vls -- the VideoLAN MPEG broadcasting server

[Hereward Cooper]

Twas 03 Apr 2002 12:45:11 +0100, and Rob Bradford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
realized:

> On Tue, 2002-04-02 at 22:58, Samuel Hocevar wrote:
> >   Description : The VideoLAN Server (vls) is designed for
> >   handling a lot  of MPEG sources and for
> >   broadcasting data over a network.
> 
> Goodie, i've been wondering how soon this would appear. It seems a lot
> of work has been going on recently. So maybe i will be able to stream
> dvds across my network.

Erh... Aren't there are some already @:
http://www.videolan.org/pub/videolan/vls/0.3.1/deb/vls_0.3.1-1_i386.deb
http://www.videolan.org/pub/videolan/vls/0.3.1/deb/vls-dvd_0.3.1-1_i386.deb

Though they could do with being put in the archive and ported.

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Thanks,
-- -0)
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG: 1E1D0C80 zadok.ddts.net   _\_v
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Re: BSP?

[Josip Rodin]

On Mon, Apr 01, 2002 at 03:20:43PM -0500, Joey Hess wrote:
> Isn't it about time for another BSP? It's been a month; I see quite a
> lot of RC bugs in the bts with patches.

How about this weekend? What's required to coordinate a BSP anyway?

-- 
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Re: BSP?

[Rob Bradford]

On Mon, 2002-04-01 at 21:20, Joey Hess wrote:
> Isn't it about time for another BSP? It's been a month; I see quite a
> lot of RC bugs in the bts with patches.

Good idea, i'll bring the beer, you organize the pizza. In the past i've
always been out of town when a BSP has happened, so lets hope this time
i'm around.

Cheers
-- 
Rob 'robster' Bradford
http://robster.org.uk


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Re: ITP: vls -- the VideoLAN MPEG broadcasting server

[Rob Bradford]

On Tue, 2002-04-02 at 22:58, Samuel Hocevar wrote:
>   Description : The VideoLAN Server (vls) is designed for handling a lot
> of MPEG sources and for broadcasting data over a network.

Goodie, i've been wondering how soon this would appear. It seems a lot
of work has been going on recently. So maybe i will be able to stream
dvds across my network.

Cheers
-- 
Rob 'robster' Bradford
http://robster.org.uk


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Re: ITP: rootkit - a Ro0Tk1t 4 Deb1an boxxxen

[Richard Braakman]

On Mon, Apr 01, 2002 at 03:39:56AM +0200, Simon Richter wrote:
>  jU5T d0 apt-get install rootkit, 4n5W3r d4 q35t10nz && h4V3 fUn!!!
   ^^^

You misspelled "phUn".  When will people learn to check their descriptions
for spelling?  Arrgh.

Richard Braakman


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Re: libsmpeg0 *will* break if not doing upgrade/dist-upgrade from potato->woody [Was: Re: libsmpeg0 shlibs is broken, fix it or we shalt lose whatever.]

[Anthony Towns]

On Tue, Apr 02, 2002 at 06:37:47PM -0500, Joe Drew wrote:
> On Tue, 2002-04-02 at 09:48, Junichi Uekawa wrote:
> > apt-get install libsmpeg0
> > from potato box using woody sources makes every smpeg-dependent program 
> > to stop functioning. This is not technical excellence that Debian
> > enjoys.
> This is absolutely true.
> Is there a solution?

If this'd been noticed a few months ago, we'd have rebuilt all the
packages and been happy. It should've been noticed months and months
and months ago, for woody+1 we need to do a better job of finding these
things early rather than late.

The easiest solution is probably to add a Conflicts: line to libsmpeg0
against all the packages that used to Depend: on it in potato, which seems
to be:

Conflicts: libsmpeg-dev (<= 0.3.5-1), smpeg-gtv (<= 0.3.5-1), 
   smpeg-plaympeg (<= 0.3.5-1)

That'll ensure that apt/dpkg won't upgrade the library while leaving the
other packages alone. The only downsides are that it's ugly and that it
doesn't let you leave the old shared library installed along with the new
one for any locally built programs that might be a nuisance to rebuild. These
downsides probably aren't worth worrying about.

> aj, I assume you won't allow a solution that needs everything using
> libsmpeg to be recompiled. Is this true?

Yup.

Cheers,
aj

-- 
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Vote [1] Bdale!


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Re: Anybody want to adopt cdrecord?

[Adam Byrtek]

On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 04:32:48AM -0700, Erik Andersen wrote:
> After a bit of discussion on availability of the needed cdwriting
> equipment, etc. I have agreed to let David Downey take over
> maintainence of cdrtools.  Thanks David!  I'm sure everyone will
> be grateful as you fix the bugs I've not had time to address,

What's going on with cdrecord? The maintaner hasn't changed yet, and
there is a big bug in it (important, but i'm thinking about upgrading
it to critical):

#131325: cdrecord: crashes on 2.2.20

It *has* to be fixed before Woody! In fact I'm still using old (1.9-1)
cdrecord because of this bug...

Regards
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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