Re: The Debian Mentors Project
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Ivo Marino wrote: Checking application/pgp-signature: FAILURE - -- Start of PGP signed section. On Tue, 13 May 2003, Matthew Palmer wrote: It appears as though anyone who has an account can upload any package they like. While this isn't a pressing problem for sponsors (since they'll be collecting source and checking the signatures on the .dsc), this could be a *very* serious problem for anyone who starts relying on the binary packages uploaded to m.d.n. What sort of protections do you have in place or plan to put in place to protect against this sort of thing? If someone can allready point out an eventual solution for this problem we'll open to consider any suggestion in order to improve the system. If I may make a suggestion, a user should only be able to upload a package that either: a) doesn't appear in the repository - -or- b) already has the uploader as maintainer - -or- c) has a RFA/O bug filed in WNPP That should provide a first line of defense against trojan packages. Just my $0.02. Thanks again for the great service! Joe Nahmias, DD wannabe -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE+wGkTKl23+OYWEqURAgQXAJ9eGulgQVmFNXWWKA4wjsXsE6rBpQCgzmXU HZOK/xdP8In+D2KLotkkSdk= =MZ9j -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Bug#193125: RFA: jnethack -- The dungeon exploration game JNetHack (nethack with Japanese l10n)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Package: wnpp Severity: normal The development of jNethack goes jnethack.sourceforge.jp, but I haven't make a enough time to follow and maintain. Current package is based on 1.1.5, but CVS version is 3.4.1-0.1. Instead of dropping GTK+ mode support, CVS version added GNOME and QT mode. It is a good way to imitate Nethack package's do (separating packages, elegant rules, and so on). -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8 http://mailcrypt.sourceforge.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAj7AY7cACgkQQKW+7XLQPLE+YACfe3/6cdHpMZFyzJfz+GW13RoH 78QAn3sqdWj0Dlu1uHR4ezwZqU+geIwk =p04z -END PGP SIGNATURE-
(no subject)
LIQUIDACION DE KITES IMPORTADAS
Title: Welcome to Adobe GoLive 6 LA CUARESMA TERMINO, PERO SIEMPRE HABRA VIENTO PARA VOLAR ESTAS UNICAS E INCREIBLES CHICHIGUAS Aprovecha esta gran oferta de chichiguas (kites) importadas que tenemos en liquidacion. APRESURESE, que el inventario es limitado y ademas hay otras variedades disponibles. Si compra mas de una le haremos un descuento aun mayor. BOOMEREsta es una chichigua Foil acrobatica bastante rapida y poderosa, mide 2 mts de largo, no tiene piezas rigidas y esta diseñada con el mismo concepto de un paracaidas, es muy facil de manejar y con grandes vientos puede producir una traccion de hasta 200 lbs, ideal para quienes se inician y excelente para intermedios y avanzados. Incluye lineas de Dacron con mandos y winder. En su mini estuche adquiere un tamaño menor que el de un doble litro de refresco. PRECIO: RD$2,800 CUBOTRIXEste es el cajon que comprabas cuando niño, pero con todas las caracteristicas de la era moderna. Es ideal para jovenes y adultos, requiere un poco mas de viento, en playa es espectacular. El material es nylon estilo paracaidas de gran durabilidad. Viene empacado en bolsa listo para volar. Incluye cuerda e instructivo, las varillas son de pino de 5 y 8mm. PRECIO: RD$725.00 KOHLYChichigua de la clase Delta, por su tamaño es ideal para niños y jovenes, muy facil de elevar y manejar. Viene empacado en bolsa lista para volar. El material es nylon de gran durabilidad y las varillas son de madera de pino. Incluye cuerda e instructivo. PRECIO: RD$495.00 BABY BOOMEREsta es muy parecida a la BOOMER, no tiene piezas rigidas, por tanto es inrrompible, al igual que lo otros modelos tambien incluye su hilo e instructivo. PRECIO: RD$495.00 PARA MAS INFORMACION:CELULAR: 696-8411[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The Debian Mentors Project
On Tue, 13 May 2003, Daniel K. Gebhart wrote: Matthew Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Tue, May 13, 2003 at 08:36:12AM +1000: *very* serious problem for anyone who starts relying on the binary packages uploaded to m.d.n. What sort of protections do you have in place or plan to put in place to protect against this sort of thing? The mentors project is not something like apt-get.org! Hosting stable and safe packages is not our goal. We are responsible for the contact between maintainers and sponsors. Not between maintainers and users. Appropos of this and Colin's statement, my suggestion is to make only a deb-src URL available on the site, and to only host source packages. For packages destined for the Debian archive, it's critical that they be reviewed as source, and that they build from source. I do a fair amount of sponsoring, and never have need for a binary of the package being sponsored. Cheers, tony [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Do not touch l10n files (was Re: DDTP issue)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, 13 May 2003, Denis Barbier wrote: In this thread we were told to change the French translation because Apache maintainers did not like its layout. I will come back to this issue below, but here is a better example of the problem I want to exhibit. Here is the references to the thread. If you like to bring up discussion in this way let people read everything and not only your summary that takes points from different messages in wrong order and does not give any idea on how the thread evolved during the time. http://lists.debian.org/debian-l10n-french/2003/debian-l10n-french-200305/msg00121.html The first post to the mailing list is the result of the only mail in which i was asking Michael Bramer how to behave in the situation in which translators do not respect the layout of the original description. It is time to go back to the Apache description. Maintainers are unhappy with the French translation provided by the DDTP. Yes we are since in the first place we asked nicely to change the layout back to the original one (as it was before this translation) and then you jumped in with some fancy reasons and even after 3/4 attempts to explain to you why the layout has to be changed back you were not able to understand them, as well you did not understand that there is a procedure for requesting such a change. (all this has been discussed in the thread and let's fly over the french part with some sarcastic Anyone has some Valium? in which we were removed from the To: and Cc:) ok, the ddtp db has this english/french apache description: | # Package(s): apache | # Package priority: task | # Package prioritize: 50 | Description: Versatile, high-performance HTTP server | The most popular server in the world, Apache features a modular | design and supports dynamic selection of extension modules at runtime. | Some of its strong points are its range of possible customization, | dynamic adjustment of the number of server processes, and a whole | range of available modules including many authentication mechanisms, | server-parsed HTML, server-side includes, access control, CERN httpd | metafiles emulation, proxy caching, etc. Apache also supports multiple | virtual homing. | . | Separate Debian packages are available for PHP, mod_perl, Java | Servlet support, Apache-SSL, and other common extensions. More | information is available at http://www.apache.org/. | Description-fr: Serveur HTTP polyvalent haute performance | Serveur le plus populaire du monde, Apache est caracterise par sa conception | modulaire et autorise la selection dynamique des modules d'extension lors de | l'execution. | Quelques-uns de ses points forts sont l'etendue des personnalisations | possibles, l'ajustement dynamique du nombre de processus du serveur, un | eventail complet de modules disponibles, incluant : |- plusieurs mecanismes d'authentification ; |- des analyseurs de serveurs de HTML ; |- des inclusions cote serveur ; |- un controle d'acces ; |- une emulation de metafichiers httpd CERN ; |- un cache proxy, etc. | Apache supporte aussi les sites internes virtuels multiples. | . | Des paquets Debian separes sont disponibles pour le PHP, mod_perl, le | support Servlet Java, Apache-SSL et d'autres extensions habituelles. Plus | d'informations sont disponibles sur http://www.apache.org/. There is a comma separated list of items in English, and an itemized list in French. The point is that from a typographical point of view (in French) the preferred format for a long list of items is an itemized list; a comma separated list is considered as bad looking, this is certainly why the translator chose this format. I do not know English rules about this issue, and thus cannot tell if original description is right or not. you already received an answer to this here: http://lists.debian.org/debian-l10n-french/2003/debian-l10n-french-200305/msg00140.html Now Apache maintainers are telling us that they chose another layout and we are bound to it. Yes because the official maintainer is responsable for the description of a package. Including the layout and this was told already in the same message above. This is stupid, our constraints are different, so I do not see why we could not adopt another format if it is more adequate for our own language. File a wishlist bug as you were told already: http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting Of course if there are good reasons to promote a given layout, you can give them[1], but telling that ``this is done that way in English so you must adopt this format too'' is insane. You still were not able to explain us why the previous translation had the same layout than (still in the same message as before) In conclusion, please do not try to impose your views on how translations should look like in
Re: The Debian Mentors Project
On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 10:48:03PM +0200, Daniel K. Gebhart wrote: --- Debian Mentors Project The mentors core-team is: Christoph Haas (ChrisH)[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ivo Marino (eim) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daniel K. Gebhart (con-fuse) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Christoph Siess (CHS) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Uh, as far as I can tell, of the above only Daniel is even in the n-m queue; Christoph, Ivo and Christoph appear to not be developers, applicants, or even sponsored maintainers of any packages in the archive. ] In longer terms: only registered Debian developers (DD) are allowed to ] upload packages directly into the official Debian distribution. But ] becoming a DD is a long and painful way. Daniel applied to be a maintainer on 2003-03-18 and was assigned an application manager nine days ago, according to nm.debian.org. Why are we giving debian.net addresses to people who don't want to go through the pain of authenticating themselves to Debian, demonstrating they no what they're doing, and agreeing with Debian's principles? Cheers, aj -- Anthony Towns [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/ I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred. ``Dear Anthony Towns: [...] Congratulations -- you are now certified as a Red Hat Certified Engineer!'' pgpVVJHn3tLBG.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#193017: ITP: ipsvd -- Internet protocol service daemons
Hi, On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 11:58:53PM +0200, Bernd Eckenfels wrote: On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 08:36:18PM +0200, Gerrit Pape wrote: I've written a short comparison before per host concurrency limits were added, see here if you're interested: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.misc.pape.general/293 PErsonally I think Class concurrency is a nice feature, too, since it allows to detect some forms of DDOS agents. Interesting. I've created a patch for tcpserver that counts the number of connections for each source address in the last x seconds, i.e. without looking at concurrent connections. It then provides this count in an extra environment variable to the child it spawns, so you can implement rate limiting. If anybody's interested, I'll put it on the web soon. I used it together with a tarpit patch to limit the total mail output for a mail relay to a certain average. Cheers, Emile. -- E-Advies - Emile van Bergen [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel. +31 (0)70 3906153 http://www.e-advies.nl pgp6E84FF9ChE.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Do not touch l10n files (was Re: DDTP issue)
Hi; [I reply to this message, since I am the guy who translates the Description] On tue 13 may 2003 at 06:57 +0200, Fabio Massimo Di Nitto wrote: [...] Now Apache maintainers are telling us that they chose another layout and we are bound to it. Yes because the official maintainer is responsable for the description of a package. Including the layout and this was told already in the same message above. Please try to consider that each language as its particularity. This is stupid, our constraints are different, so I do not see why we could not adopt another format if it is more adequate for our own language. File a wishlist bug as you were told already: http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting A whishlist bug against what ? Against the French Language because we do use an itemized list where English uses a different layout ? Of course if there are good reasons to promote a given layout, you can give them[1], but telling that ``this is done that way in English so you must adopt this format too'' is insane. You still were not able to explain us why the previous translation had the same layout than (still in the same message as before) We are performing a lot of reviews to ensure that the quality of the translation is good. 3 translators were agreed to use this translation. In conclusion, please do not try to impose your views on how translations should look like in your package. There are policies for description. DDTP as developers have to respect them. but i guess it is not your case since according to your post you do not contribute to any of them. http://lists.debian.org/debian-l10n-french/2003/debian-l10n-french-200305/msg00166.html I do. Denis kindly answers to your message because he is _very_ relevant with i18n and l10n. Try to understand what Denis means. The problem on that very problem is that you would not admit that we are true (from the translator's point of view). Generaly speeking, we (people aware of l10n and i18n) believe that the maintainer's job is not to deal with these issues. Translators are bored to fix maintainers mistakes. Moreover, I believe that a maintainer should not loose his time on l10n. You have to make sure that translations are up to date and correct, but when you edit translated files yourself, you are most of the times making translator's life harder without any gain for our end users. Why do you think we did ask kindly to have the french layout alligned with all the others? and we did not changed it ourself? Because we did not want to change the contents of the description even for a typo but having its layout alligned with the others. The question is Why do you want to have its layout alligned with the others ? Cheers, -- Pierre Machard [EMAIL PROTECTED] TuxFamily.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] techmag.info +33(0)668 178 365http://migus.tuxfamily.org/gpg.txt GPG: 1024D/23706F87 : B906 A53F 84E0 49B6 6CF7 82C2 B3A0 2D66 2370 6F87 pgpR9yZQuT5L7.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: The Debian Mentors Project
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 01:29:00AM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 05:41:40PM -0600, Jack Moffitt wrote: Perhaps an easy thing to do would just be to show whether or not a pckage is signed by a key which is signed by a real debian developer. Surely getting that signature is the whole point of the system in the first place? I think the suggestion is that the key signing the package is signed by a developer, not that the package itself is signed. -- You grabbed my hand and we fell into it, like a daydream - or a fever. pgpA1NrpfTMtq.pgp Description: PGP signature
Bug#193143: ITP: valgrind-caltree -- caltree skin for valgrind
Package: wnpp Version: unavailable; reported 2003-05-13 Severity: wishlist * Package name: valgrind-caltree Version : 0.2.95 Upstream Author : Josef Weidendorfer [EMAIL PROTECTED] * URL : http://kcachegrind.sourceforge.net/ * License : GPL Description : caltree skin for valgrind This is a skin (aka plugin) for Valgrind 1.9.5, a program instrumentation system for x86-linux. It is based on the cachegrind skin, a cache simulator from the valgrind core package. It adds call-graph profiling. . This calltree is needed by KCachegrind (KDE frontend for browsing the profile information) to show full profiling information. See http://kcachegrind.sourceforge.net for examples and usage information including screenshots. -- System Information: Debian Release: testing/unstable Architecture: i386 Kernel: Linux herodot 2.4.20 #25 Don Apr 3 12:33:28 CEST 2003 i686 Locale: LANG=de, LC_CTYPE=de (ignored: LC_ALL set)
Re: Do not touch l10n files (was Re: DDTP issue)
On Tue, 13 May 2003, Pierre Machard wrote: Hi; [I reply to this message, since I am the guy who translates the Description] On tue 13 may 2003 at 06:57 +0200, Fabio Massimo Di Nitto wrote: [...] Now Apache maintainers are telling us that they chose another layout and we are bound to it. Yes because the official maintainer is responsable for the description of a package. Including the layout and this was told already in the same message above. Please try to consider that each language as its particularity. I do not understand why the previous translation was alligned to our layout and noone is still able to give me an answer about this. File a wishlist bug as you were told already: http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting A whishlist bug against what ? Against the French Language because we do use an itemized list where English uses a different layout ? If you really believe that the apache description should be improved than you file a bug against apache asking to changing layout, proposing the better one so that everyone can be alligned to it. We are performing a lot of reviews to ensure that the quality of the translation is good. 3 translators were agreed to use this translation. We did not, i will repeat this until the end of the world, discuss the quality of the contents. We are discussing the layout. Quoting myself from http://lists.debian.org/debian-l10n-french/2003/debian-l10n-french-200305/msg00123.html Be carefull. We don't want to make a big deal out of it and neither we are telling the french translation team that is bad what they did. We appreciate seriously the effort that the ddtp team is doing. What we are saying is that if they prefer another format they can just contanct us. We are open to suggestions. We just didn't really like the way it was done and that the format is not coherent with the original one. I do. Denis kindly answers to your message because he is _very_ relevant with i18n and l10n. Until the last 2 messages I did not asked for name or pointed fingers against people directly and i kept the talk as much generic as possible because i don't care who does the job until it gets done correctly. Try to understand what Denis means. The problem on that very problem is that you would not admit that we are true (from the translator's point of view). from the translator point of view you should only translate. That's what i do when i submit italian translation. If have a concern about anything else i ask the maintainer. prove that I am wrong. Generaly speeking, we (people aware of l10n and i18n) believe that the maintainer's job is not to deal with these issues. Translators are bored to fix maintainers mistakes. Moreover, I believe that a maintainer should not loose his time on l10n. Yes we do. just an examoke: http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-best-pkging-practices.en.html#s-bpp-pkg-desc The long description should consist of full and complete sentences. I miss to see how a list can fullfil this reference. Why do you think we did ask kindly to have the french layout alligned with all the others? and we did not changed it ourself? Because we did not want to change the contents of the description even for a typo but having its layout alligned with the others. The question is Why do you want to have its layout alligned with the others ? I could simply ask you the question the other way around: why do you want to be different from all the others? but it's a chicken egg stupid game. The reason is simple. The DD decide the layout and the descriptio and it is responsable for it again the community and the users, no matter in which language. All the others cope with our layout and i don't see any language barrier that does not permit you to do so. Fabio -- Our mission: make IPv6 the default IP protocol We are on a mission from God - Elwood Blues http://www.itojun.org/paper/itojun-nanog-200210-ipv6isp/mgp4.html
Re: Do not touch l10n files (was Re: DDTP issue)
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 06:57:45AM +0200, Fabio Massimo Di Nitto wrote: (...) http://lists.debian.org/debian-l10n-french/2003/debian-l10n-french-200305/msg00121.html The first post to the mailing list is the result of the only mail in which i was asking Michael Bramer how to behave in the situation in which translators do not respect the layout of the original description. IMHO this should have been discussed in the debian-i18n first. (...) It is time to go back to the Apache description. Maintainers are unhappy with the French translation provided by the DDTP. Yes we are since in the first place we asked nicely to change the layout back to the original one (as it was before this translation) and then you (..) Maintainers or developers do not have a say on how translations are done except for gettext sintax errors. If you do not like how a translation team works, but you do not understand the language, tough luck. There is a comma separated list of items in English, and an itemized list in French. The point is that from a typographical point of view (in French) the preferred format for a long list of items is an itemized list; a comma separated list is considered as bad looking, this is certainly why the translator chose this format. I do not know English rules about this issue, and thus cannot tell if original description is right or not. you already received an answer to this here: http://lists.debian.org/debian-l10n-french/2003/debian-l10n-french-200305/msg00140.html (...) And he answered you back. The layout of the french description was changed because it _did_not_ fit French typographical rules. The first translator made a mistake (quite usual since people translating don't always know their own language's rules) and it was fixed later on by fixing the layout (4 months later?) Makes sense to me. Now Apache maintainers are telling us that they chose another layout and we are bound to it. Yes because the official maintainer is responsable for the description of a package. Including the layout and this was told already in the same message above. The official maintainer is in _no_ way responsible for the _translated_ description of a package. Please, let translation teams do their work without interfeering. File a wishlist bug as you were told already: http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting DDTP is not handled by BTS bugs. There are policies for description. DDTP as developers have to respect them. but i guess it is not your case since according to your post you do not contribute to any of them. http://lists.debian.org/debian-l10n-french/2003/debian-l10n-french-200305/msg00166.html First, thanks to Denis work, projects like DDTP are possible. Without his po-debconf half of the DDTP would be unmanagable. Please take time to know who you are you talking with. Second, there are no policies for translations. DDTP translators have to respect the views of their language translation team, not of the maintainer. If you wish to change that view, join the translation team, do not impose the changes upstream (from the developer side). If you do not read the language or understand it then, at most, you can send a mail to the Debian translation coordinator [1] Why do you think we did ask kindly to have the french layout alligned with all the others? and we did not changed it ourself? Because we did not want to change the contents of the description even for a typo but having its layout alligned with the others. They don't have to! Content and layout in a translation is part of what the translator has to do. If there are typographical rules that make necessary a layout change a translator has to apply them! Saying otherwise is like saying that I have to keep, in Spanish, the same sentences as constructed in English when, frequently, a sentence in Spanish is longer than in English and I can group information in the translation. I completely agree with Denis that developers or upstreams should not interfere at all with the translation work, much less make changes to translated files (unless trivial, and even then they should be notified). Otherwise it makes it impossible for translators work in a constant translate and review process parallel to the work done upstream (and broken if somebody removes fuzzy entries, modifies text or change gettext's XX.po in anyway) Regards Javi [1] There is really no such position in Debian for all languages, but you can take the web translation list at www.debian.org/devel/website/translation_coordinators or try to find them in www.debian.org/international pgprmerbR7Idx.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: The Debian Mentors Project
Hi, On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 03:51:42PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 10:48:03PM +0200, Daniel K. Gebhart wrote: --- Debian Mentors Project The mentors core-team is: Christoph Haas (ChrisH)[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ivo Marino (eim) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daniel K. Gebhart (con-fuse) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Christoph Siess (CHS) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Uh, as far as I can tell, of the above only Daniel is even in the n-m queue; Christoph, Ivo and Christoph appear to not be developers, applicants, or even sponsored maintainers of any packages in the archive. ] In longer terms: only registered Debian developers (DD) are allowed to ] upload packages directly into the official Debian distribution. But ] becoming a DD is a long and painful way. Daniel applied to be a maintainer on 2003-03-18 and was assigned an application manager nine days ago, according to nm.debian.org. Why are we giving debian.net addresses to people who don't want to go through the pain of authenticating themselves to Debian, demonstrating they no what they're doing, and agreeing with Debian's principles? It seems that it's harmless, and its potential usefulness for the sponsors and/or AMs, who /are/ DDs, could warrant a debian.net name, can't it? That no DD had to spend much energy to set this up is only a good thing, isn't it? In short, why pick on this useful initiative? Cheers, Emile. -- E-Advies - Emile van Bergen [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel. +31 (0)70 3906153 http://www.e-advies.nl pgpQePf62zWoU.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Do not touch l10n files (was Re: DDTP issue)
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 06:57:45AM +0200, Fabio Massimo Di Nitto wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tue, 13 May 2003, Denis Barbier wrote: In this thread we were told to change the French translation because Apache maintainers did not like its layout. I will come back to this issue below, but here is a better example of the problem I want to exhibit. Here is the references to the thread. If you like to bring up discussion in this way let people read everything and not only your summary that takes points from different messages in wrong order and does not give any idea on how the thread evolved during the time. http://lists.debian.org/debian-l10n-french/2003/debian-l10n-french-200305/msg00121.html Original subject was kept in order to let people find this thread easily, but I could indeed have made this pointer available. [...] (all this has been discussed in the thread and let's fly over the french part with some sarcastic Anyone has some Valium? in which we were removed from the To: and Cc:) I posted some messages to d-l-f only in French in order to get clarifications in my mother tongue, and also to ask if other translators could jump in. About the Valium sentence, I suggest you to have all my messages translated into English, you obviously do not read French. In this thread I was telling that this discussion was getting on my nerves and I needed some Valium to calm me down. I won't try to make you believe that my posts did not contain any sarcasm, but they can mostly be found in English messages, no need to misinterpret the French ones. Denis
Re: The Debian Mentors Project
Hi, Anthony... On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 03:51:42PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: Uh, as far as I can tell, of the above only Daniel is even in the n-m queue; Christoph, Ivo and Christoph appear to not be developers, applicants, or even sponsored maintainers of any packages in the archive. You are right. I do plan to apply in a few weeks. However the service was created especially for people who e.g. have written an application themselves and do not care about becoming a DD. I could imagine that a lot of people will upload their packages to our server and then post in debian-mentors that they seek a sponsor and their package has already been uploaded. Time will tell. ] In longer terms: only registered Debian developers (DD) are allowed to ] upload packages directly into the official Debian distribution. But ] becoming a DD is a long and painful way. Daniel applied to be a maintainer on 2003-03-18 and was assigned an application manager nine days ago, according to nm.debian.org. Why are we giving debian.net addresses to people who don't want to go through the pain of authenticating themselves to Debian, demonstrating they no what they're doing, and agreeing with Debian's principles? Please bear with me but from what I was told by a number of package maintainers it is a really long way until one has become a DD. Just because Daniel was assigned an AM does not mean there is a guarantee he will get his DD access in the next weeks. I doubt that. Be assured that we do completely agree with the social contract the GPL and in general the Debian principles. Our main motivation to bring up this service was that there are a lot of developers who read nm.debian.org and didn not want to become DDs. I understand that a complex process is needed to keep the distribution clean. However just this complexity may easily drive people away who could well be an asset to the community. I don't mind authenticating myself to Debian. In fact I would really like to do it. It is less a matter of wanting. Enough with _my_ two euro-cents. :) Christoph -- ~ ~ .signature [Modified] 3 lines --100%--3,41 All
Re: Do not touch l10n files (was Re: DDTP issue)
On Tue, 13 May 2003, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote: On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 06:57:45AM +0200, Fabio Massimo Di Nitto wrote: (...) http://lists.debian.org/debian-l10n-french/2003/debian-l10n-french-200305/msg00121.html The first post to the mailing list is the result of the only mail in which i was asking Michael Bramer how to behave in the situation in which translators do not respect the layout of the original description. IMHO this should have been discussed in the debian-i18n first. That was not my decision, i was asking information and got an answer posted back to the l10n-french. Yes we are since in the first place we asked nicely to change the layout back to the original one (as it was before this translation) and then you (..) Maintainers or developers do not have a say on how translations are done except for gettext sintax errors. If you do not like how a translation team works, but you do not understand the language, tough luck. Do you think it is nice to start a discussion in english and see it forked in another language? specially when a exchange of information could have solved the issue at a much earlier stage? Now Apache maintainers are telling us that they chose another layout and we are bound to it. Yes because the official maintainer is responsable for the description of a package. Including the layout and this was told already in the same message above. The official maintainer is in _no_ way responsible for the _translated_ description of a package. Please, let translation teams do their work without interfeering. When DDTP will be integrate 100% in the system who will receive bugs on descriptions? you or the dd? File a wishlist bug as you were told already: http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting DDTP is not handled by BTS bugs. Than please re-read my post. If believes that the french layout is better why not appling it to all the descriptions? First, thanks to Denis work, projects like DDTP are possible. Without his po-debconf half of the DDTP would be unmanagable. Please take time to know who you are you talking with. Still again I did so... but people were to busy taking up a flamewar... read my other posts please before saying so. Second, there are no policies for translations. DDTP translators have to respect the views of their language translation team, not of the maintainer. If you wish to change that view, join the translation team, do not impose the changes upstream (from the developer side). If you do not read the language or understand it then, at most, you can send a mail to the Debian translation coordinator [1] That's why i was asking information to grisu in the beginning for which is the proper procedure. Only a nice flamewar was born out of it. Why do you think we did ask kindly to have the french layout alligned with all the others? and we did not changed it ourself? Because we did not want to change the contents of the description even for a typo but having its layout alligned with the others. They don't have to! Content and layout in a translation is part of what the translator has to do. If there are typographical rules that make necessary a layout change a translator has to apply them! And is this a reason to start a flamewar because i was asking information? Saying otherwise is like saying that I have to keep, in Spanish, the same sentences as constructed in English when, frequently, a sentence in Spanish is longer than in English and I can group information in the translation. Changing words and senteces does not necessary means changing layout. [1] There is really no such position in Debian for all languages, but you can take the web translation list at www.debian.org/devel/website/translation_coordinators or try to find them in www.debian.org/international thanks Fabio -- Our mission: make IPv6 the default IP protocol We are on a mission from God - Elwood Blues http://www.itojun.org/paper/itojun-nanog-200210-ipv6isp/mgp4.html
Re: The Debian Mentors Project
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 08:30:03AM +0100, Mark Brown wrote: On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 01:29:00AM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 05:41:40PM -0600, Jack Moffitt wrote: Perhaps an easy thing to do would just be to show whether or not a pckage is signed by a key which is signed by a real debian developer. Surely getting that signature is the whole point of the system in the first place? I think the suggestion is that the key signing the package is signed by a developer, not that the package itself is signed. Oh yes; thanks, I misread. I'm still not sure it's practical, though; in practice, people do try to do development before getting their identity check sorted out. -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Do not touch l10n files (was Re: DDTP issue)
Dear Debian fellows, In France, we have an expression that says a storm in a glass of water. I sincerely think we are in such a case. Let me summarise what happened, according to what I read on the debian-l10-french list. Once, there was a description for the Apache package using a long coma-separated list for the apache modules both in the original description and in the French translation. Then, the apache maintainers changed the description only changing the PHP3 in PHP. What bother Fabio Massimo is that the new French translation goes further and also changes the layout of the module list. I'm sure being a package maintainer is like taking care of a baby and, as a good father, you feel very concerned even with the translations of your baby. This honours you but... Fabio Massimo, you say : Yes we are [unhappy with the new translation since in the first place we asked nicely to change the layout back to the original one (as it was before this translation) and then you jumped in with some fancy reasons and even after 3/4 attempts to explain to you why the layout has to be changed back you were not able to understand them, I'm sorry, but you never explained - at least on the french l10n list - why the layout of the translation had to be changed. You only said that the maintainers are responsible of the layout and that you dislike the new one so it has to be changed. Dear maintainers, are the layouts of the translations so important? Maybe sometimes a strange layout can cause technical problems for its displaying, but I don't think coma-separated list vs. itemised list worth the fight. Furthermore, theses mails rise the problem of conflicts between maintainers and translators about translations. I am not a real Debian translator (do I loose all credibility for what I said before? ;-). I'm just a proof-reader. I agree that the English version of a Debian document should be the official one, because it's expected to be understood by most people. But when you have to translate a text, you are facing two sorts of problems: the specific requirements of your language (like non-breaking spaces in French) and the in my language, we'd rather say this in that way. Thus, if we want to make a _good_ translation, and I'm sure everybody wants it here, we often have to make large changes in the translation. I can tell you that we are making big effort to be sure not to pervert the initial sense of the text. Is it a problem? Shouldn't the maintainers be confident in the translators and their work? I'm sure we are here to walk together to make Debian a good (well, in fact a better, it's yet very good) distribution. So lets not make a storms in glass of water. Communautairement, (fellowshiply ?) Yannick
Re: Do not touch l10n files
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 09:12:25AM +0200, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote: [...] First, thanks to Denis work, projects like DDTP are possible. Without his po-debconf half of the DDTP would be unmanagable. Please take time to know who you are you talking with. [...] Not really, I did not perform any work for the DDTP, which is Grisu's baby. And I must also admit that some of my posts were not kindful, so they can flame me if they want, it does not matter ;) Denis
Re: The Debian Mentors Project
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 03:51:42PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: Daniel K. Gebhart (con-fuse) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Christoph Siess (CHS) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why are we giving debian.net addresses to people who don't want to go through the pain of authenticating themselves to Debian, At least both Daniel's and Christoph's GPG key are signed by numerous DDs, so I think they authenticated. Disclaimer: I am one the guys who signed their key Michael -- wiggy bah, docbook-doc has bogus documentation
Re: Do not touch l10n files (was Re: DDTP issue)
Hi ! Le 2003-05-13 09:42:16 +0200, Fabio Massimo Di Nitto écrivait : On Tue, 13 May 2003, Pierre Machard wrote: just an examoke: http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-best-pkging-practices.en.html#s-bpp-pkg-desc The long description should consist of full and complete sentences. I miss to see how a list can fullfil this reference. Please note that the long list that you mention is, in French, a single complete sentence: | Description-fr: Serveur HTTP polyvalent haute performance | Serveur le plus populaire du monde, Apache est caracterise par sa conception | modulaire et autorise la selection dynamique des modules d'extension lors de | l'execution. | Quelques-uns de ses points forts sont l'etendue des personnalisations | possibles, l'ajustement dynamique du nombre de processus du serveur, un | eventail complet de modules disponibles, incluant : |- plusieurs mecanismes d'authentification ; |- des analyseurs de serveurs de HTML ; |- des inclusions cote serveur ; |- un controle d'acces ; |- une emulation de metafichiers httpd CERN ; |- un cache proxy, etc. | Apache supporte aussi les sites internes virtuels multiples. | . | Des paquets Debian separes sont disponibles pour le PHP, mod_perl, le | support Servlet Java, Apache-SSL et d'autres extensions habituelles. Plus | d'informations sont disponibles sur http://www.apache.org/. The sentence starts at Quelques-uns and ends with - un cache proxy. This is why there are semi-comas instead of dots at the end of each item, and also why there are no capital at the beginning of each item. This is a French typographical convention. Your text has not been cut in separate items, but is simply written following the French typographical rules. HTH. -- Jean-Philippe Guérard -- mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: can touch(1) readonly files
But how can I protect _myself_ from _myself_? I seem to recall in past UNIXes things weren't this bad. $ id uid=1000(jidanni) gid=1000(jidanni) ... $ chmod -w -R ee $ find ee|xargs touch -d 'next year' $ find ee|xargs ls -ld dr-xr-xr-x3 jidanni jidanni 1024 2004-05-13 16:43 ee -r--r--r--1 jidanni jidanni 0 2004-05-13 16:43 ee/ff dr-xr-xr-x2 jidanni jidanni 1024 2004-05-13 16:43 ee/gg I mean I can understand why access times still should be changed, but where is the logic in allowing modification times to be changed? Again, I ask, as a regular user, why can't I protect _myself_ from _myself_ changing file modification times? I wonder just how many of the times in the inode are now gullible. $ uname -a Linux debian 2.4.20-k7 #1 Tue Jan 14 00:29:06 EST 2003 i686 unknown unknown GNU/Linux -- http://jidanni.org/ Taiwan(04)25854780
Re: The Debian Mentors Project
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 10:02:11AM +0200, Christoph Haas wrote: Please bear with me but from what I was told by a number of package maintainers it is a really long way until one has become a DD. Just because Daniel was assigned an AM does not mean there is a guarantee he will get his DD access in the next weeks. I doubt that. That's may be true or not: i joined Debian in less than a month. There are many factors around that issue. I want to add my two euro-cents too: IMHO is very unfair, for a Debian project, to blame another Debian Project or Debian it self (NM is part of Debian). More over, it seems to me that you intend to help any non-Debian developer to distribute his software regardless of the fact he may want or not to join Debian: that's why i also don't see the point in haveing such a sentence. ciao, -- Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis | Elegant or ugly code as well aliases: Luca ^De [A-Z][A-Za-z\-]*[iy]'\?s$ | as fine or rude sentences have Luca, a wannabe ``Good guy''. | something in common: they local LANG=[EMAIL PROTECTED] | don't depend on the language.
Re: Do not touch l10n files (was Re: DDTP issue)
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 10:01:49AM +0200, Fabio Massimo Di Nitto wrote: Yes we are since in the first place we asked nicely to change the layout back to the original one (as it was before this translation) and then you (..) Maintainers or developers do not have a say on how translations are done except for gettext sintax errors. If you do not like how a translation team works, but you do not understand the language, tough luck. Do you think it is nice to start a discussion in english and see it forked in another language? specially when a exchange of information could have solved the issue at a much earlier stage? I won't discuss that. It probably was not nice switching to other language but Denis was, in my point of view, asking the rest of the team (which might not be fluent in english) The official maintainer is in _no_ way responsible for the _translated_ description of a package. Please, let translation teams do their work without interfeering. When DDTP will be integrate 100% in the system who will receive bugs on descriptions? you or the dd? The translation team. Any other scheme is flawed and tends to problems (people doing the same work will collide, it has happened in the past with translations and will happen in the future if the maintainer, and not the translation teams ,is still the one merging changes) Than please re-read my post. If believes that the french layout is better why not appling it to all the descriptions? Because the layout is based on typographical conventions. That's what Denis said (more than once). What applied to french might not apply to english, or spanish, or chinese. First, thanks to Denis work, projects like DDTP are possible. Without his po-debconf half of the DDTP would be unmanagable. Please take time to know who you are you talking with. Still again I did so... but people were to busy taking up a flamewar... read my other posts please before saying so. I read the thread you pointed. I also read your answer (the you are not working on the DDP). That's why i was asking information to grisu in the beginning for which is the proper procedure. Only a nice flamewar was born out of it. Grisu is _not_ the translation team coordinator for French. Denis is. Grisu manages the DDTP but that does not mean he gets a decision on how a translation should be made. Why do you think we did ask kindly to have the french layout alligned with all the others? and we did not changed it ourself? Because we did not want to change the contents of the description even for a typo but having its layout alligned with the others. They don't have to! Content and layout in a translation is part of what the translator has to do. If there are typographical rules that make necessary a layout change a translator has to apply them! And is this a reason to start a flamewar because i was asking information? You also help it becomse so, by being stubborn and not accepting Denis point of view. Saying otherwise is like saying that I have to keep, in Spanish, the same sentences as constructed in English when, frequently, a sentence in Spanish is longer than in English and I can group information in the translation. Changing words and senteces does not necessary means changing layout. Could you please leave the layout-thingy? If an itemised list is not understood in say, Chowinese (just invented the language), you cannot push it through the throat of the translation team, however you are. It will _not_ be understood by the native language speakers, it will not sound proper or what else. thanks Fabio Friendly, Javi pgpSzsT3DKBAQ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: The Debian Mentors Project
Hi, On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 04:34:08AM -0500, Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis wrote: On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 10:02:11AM +0200, Christoph Haas wrote: Please bear with me but from what I was told by a number of package maintainers it is a really long way until one has become a DD. Just because Daniel was assigned an AM does not mean there is a guarantee he will get his DD access in the next weeks. I doubt that. That's may be true or not: i joined Debian in less than a month. There are many factors around that issue. I want to add my two euro-cents too: IMHO is very unfair, for a Debian project, to blame another Debian Project or Debian it self (NM is part of Debian). More over, it seems to me that you intend to help any non-Debian developer to distribute his software regardless of the fact he may want or not to join Debian: that's why i also don't see the point in haveing such a sentence. Regardless, I actually think it's a wonderful scaleability measure to provide some infrastructure that allows DDs to delegate some of the packaging work to NMs in the queue, who can prove that they are worth their salt, or to non-DDs, who can contribute to the project in a controlled manner that way. I think there is a niche for such non-DD contributors. Not only in bugreporting and bugfixing, but also in packaging work. The number of packages is already huge, and arguably more than the DDs can handle, if you look at the number of orphaned packages. Of course, if nobody cares about them, they should be removed, but it may very well be that no DD cares about them enough to continue doing all the packaging work, while other people do care and are willing to work through a sponsor. Allowing DDs to take advantage of the work of lesser gods, whenever that is practical and useful, seems a good thing for all parties concerned. And no, IANADD. Cheers, Emile. -- E-Advies - Emile van Bergen [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel. +31 (0)70 3906153 http://www.e-advies.nl pgpM3uXEUAtYx.pgp Description: PGP signature
mailcap to mc.ext script
Hi!
I've just wrote a script which generates a /etc/mc/mc.ext file using
information from mime.types and mailcap files.
I found it very useful. It takes a list of extensions from mime.types
then check if in mailcap we've got support for that extension.
If yes it put this extension do mc.ext and assings action (run-mailcap).
I think, it's very good to automate generating mc.ext file.
When user install software that provides /etc/mailcap record it will be
automagically added to mc.ext.
Please, share with me with your opinions.
PS.
I'm not good in writing shell scripts, and this script is running very
slow. If you can, please improve it.
Regards.
Marcin
--
.---, --: mcINEK :--
/ ,. \ ' T h e O w l s a r e n o t
| | ; ;W h a t T h e y S e e m . . . '
\ `._ /wrote on Debian GNU/Linux SID
# !/bin/bash
# This script converts /etc/mailcap records to Midnigh Commander
# configuration file /etc/mc/mc.ext.
#
# Author: mcINEK [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailcap_file=/etc/mailcap
mime_types_file=/etc/mime.types
mc_ext_file=mc.ext # just debug, change it to /etc/mc/mc.ext
tmp_file=/tmp/mc.ext.tmp
if [ ! -e $mailcap_file ]; then
echo Can't find $mailcap_file
echo Be sure that mail-support package is installed.
exit
fi
echo Generating $mc_ext_file ...
cat $mime_types_file | sed '/^#.*/d' | sed '/^$/d' $tmp_file
{
echo # This file is generated by a script.
echo
} $mc_ext_file
while read line; do
mime_type=`echo $line | awk -F' ' '{ print $1 }'`
mime_ext=`echo $line | awk -F' ' '{ for(i=2;i=NF;i++) {print $i} }'`
ext_count=`echo $mime_ext | awk '{ print NF }'`
if [ $ext_count == 0 ]; then
continue
fi
is_in_mailcap=`grep $mime_type $mailcap_file`
if [ $is_in_mailcap == ]; then
echo -n .
continue
fi
# put a mime type into file (optional)
# you can comment it out
echo # $mime_type $mc_ext_file
if [ $ext_count == 1 ]; then
echo shell/.$mime_ext $mc_ext_file
else
for ((i=0; i$ext_count; i++)); do
mime_ext=`echo $mime_ext | sed 's/ /|/'`
done
echo regex/\\.($mime_ext)\$ $mc_ext_file
fi
echo Open=run-mailcap $mime_type:%f $mc_ext_file
echo $mc_ext_file
echo -n o
done $tmp_file
rm $tmp_file
echo
signature.asc
Description: PGP signature
Re: noicon.xpm?
On ti, 2003-05-13 at 05:42, Gustavo Noronha Silva wrote: Yes, perhaps yes. I really don't think adding default icons is The Right Thing, but I still think that'd be better than nothing. It's a matter of taste and opinion, I guess. I think the debian swirl is ok as a default icon on my gnome menu, while Christian thinks it's ugly. What does Debian have to do with the programs that are missing a menu icon? We package them, but I don't think that's reason enough to use Debian's logo for unrelated things. People who use a Debian system, but don't know much about the project itself, will soon come to associate Debian's logo with all sorts of random stuff. That's not really a good idea. If you really, really insist on using the same icon for lots of unrelated stuff, at least make a new one that doesn't have any existing meaning and use. -- Enemies of Carlotta 1.0 mailing list manager: http://liw.iki.fi/liw/eoc/
Re: mailcap to mc.ext script
On 13 May 2003, mcINEK wrote: I think, it's very good to automate generating mc.ext file. Very good idea. Please, share with me with your opinions. If I would be you I would file a wishlist bug against mc package and tag it patch by providing your script. Kind regards Andreas.
Re: Do not touch l10n files (was Re: DDTP issue)
On Tue, 13 May 2003, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote: I won't discuss that. It probably was not nice switching to other language but Denis was, in my point of view, asking the rest of the team (which might not be fluent in english) Let's stop any discussion that is not focused on the origianl question. When DDTP will be integrate 100% in the system who will receive bugs on descriptions? you or the dd? The translation team. Any other scheme is flawed and tends to problems (people doing the same work will collide, it has happened in the past with translations and will happen in the future if the maintainer, and not the translation teams ,is still the one merging changes) The translation team will not get anything from BTS anyway... so i don't see how this can work. the DD will be always the interface in this case. user - BTS - DD - translation team First, thanks to Denis work, projects like DDTP are possible. Without his po-debconf half of the DDTP would be unmanagable. Please take time to know who you are you talking with. Still again I did so... but people were to busy taking up a flamewar... read my other posts please before saying so. I read the thread you pointed. I also read your answer (the you are not working on the DDP). My thanks went to the entire DDTP community because i appreciate their work and i still do so. That's why i was asking information to grisu in the beginning for which is the proper procedure. Only a nice flamewar was born out of it. Grisu is _not_ the translation team coordinator for French. Denis is. Grisu manages the DDTP but that does not mean he gets a decision on how a translation should be made. I did ask for a procedure. not to solve the problem from us. There is a difference. And is this a reason to start a flamewar because i was asking information? You also help it becomse so, by being stubborn and not accepting Denis point of view. I probably helped since asking something nicely didn't help much and ansering back in a more formal way either. Saying otherwise is like saying that I have to keep, in Spanish, the same sentences as constructed in English when, frequently, a sentence in Spanish is longer than in English and I can group information in the translation. Changing words and senteces does not necessary means changing layout. Could you please leave the layout-thingy? If this was the only point in the entire discussion, sure i can leave it out and we can stop discussing here. Fabio -- Our mission: make IPv6 the default IP protocol We are on a mission from God - Elwood Blues http://www.itojun.org/paper/itojun-nanog-200210-ipv6isp/mgp4.html
Re: Do not touch l10n files (was Re: DDTP issue)
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 09:42:16AM +0200, Fabio Massimo Di Nitto wrote: If you really believe that the apache description should be improved than you file a bug against apache asking to changing layout, proposing the better one so that everyone can be alligned to it. If I understand well, you are bored because you think that the layout used in french could be good in all languages, but the french translators sort of kept it for themselves. But we didn't do that because we don't think that the french typographical rules should be used in all languages, as well as we think that the english typographical rules do not apply in French. We are performing a lot of reviews to ensure that the quality of the translation is good. 3 translators were agreed to use this translation. We did not, i will repeat this until the end of the world, discuss the quality of the contents. We are discussing the layout. No, not exactly. We are not discussing esthetical layout here. This layout in french is not only esthetical, it must be so because of typographical rules[1]. That's why we didn't think that all languages must follow the same rules. In written french, the typographical rules have almost the same impact than gramatical ones. But feel free to adapt this new layout to the original text if you want to. Only, don't try to prevent us to follow the rules in our language. For example, we always put a space before the colon symbol (a non-breaking space when technically possible), but we won't repport as an error in the original text a colon without space before (as requiered by english typographical rules). That's the same kind of thing for us. Bye, Mt. [1] Lexique des règles typographiques en usage à l'imprimerie nationale, ISBN: 2743304820. Available at: http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/2743304820/qid%3D1047692993/sr%3D1-4/ref%3Dsr%5F1%5F2%5F4/402-2014446-9559346 -- Don't drink as root!
Re: mailcap to mc.ext script
W licie z wto, 13-05-2003, godz. 12:43, Andreas Tille pisze: Please, share with me with your opinions. If I would be you I would file a wishlist bug against mc package and tag it patch by providing your script. But first I wanna know if it what I done is good ;) So, I will wait for opinions. Marcin -- .---, --: mcINEK :-- / ,. \ ' T h e O w l s a r e n o t | | ; ;W h a t T h e y S e e m . . . ' \ `._ /wrote on Debian GNU/Linux SID signature.asc Description: PGP signature
build issue: manual build works; dpkg-buildpackage doesn't
Hi,
I'm trying to build the latest version of XML::LibXML from CVS, but it
won't pass the tests. At least, that depends on how I ran them:
- perl Mekefile.PL; make; make test = no problem
- fakeroot debian/rules clean; debian/rules build = again no problem
- fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage = still no problem
- sudo dpkg-buildpackage = again still no problem
but
- dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot = t/13dtd fails
- dpkg-buildpackage -rsudo = t/13dtd still fails
- cvs-buildpackage = t/13dtd fails some more
In this particular test the following happens:
use Test;
BEGIN { plan tests = 17 }
use XML::LibXML;
ok(1);
my $dtdstr;
{
local $/; local *DTD;
open(DTD, 'example/test.dtd') || die $!;
$dtdstr = DTD;
$dtdstr =~ s/\r//g;
$dtdstr =~ s/[\r\n]*$//;
close DTD;
}
ok($dtdstr);
{
# parse a DTD from a SYSTEM ID
my $dtd = XML::LibXML::Dtd-new('ignore', 'example/test.dtd');
ok($dtd);
my $newstr = $dtd-toString;
$newstr =~ s/\r//g;
$newstr =~ s/^.*?\n//;
$newstr =~ s/\n^.*\Z//m;
ok($newstr, $dtdstr);
}
The last 'ok' doesn't pass unless ran manually. Using dpkg-buildpackage
it simply doesn't want to work (and then the remaining 14 tests also fail).
The tests are run as follows:
PERL_DL_NONLAZY=1 /usr/bin/perl -MExtUtils::Command::MM -e
test_harness(0, 'blib/lib', 'blib/arch') t/*.t
The package also has a separate test script (tester.sh) and if I run
./tester.sh 13dtd
it also fails. The script is
#! /bin/sh
make
MEMORY_TEST=1 \
PERL_DL_NONLAZY=1 \
/usr/bin/perl \
-Iblib/arch \
-Iblib/lib \
-e 'use Test::Harness qw(runtests $verbose); $verbose=1;
runtests @ARGV;' \
t/$1*.t
Note that I'm running this in a chroot environment (I've got several of these
for the different type of packages I maintain and have had no problem so far).
Also in a pbuilder it fails (which is also a chroot environment).
I've no idea what's going on here, nor where to look for a possible solution.
Any help in solving this mystery is really appreciated.
Thanks,
Ardo
--
Ardo van Rangelrooij
home email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
home page: http://people.debian.org/~ardo
GnuPG fp: 3B 1F 21 72 00 5C 3A 73 7F 72 DF D9 90 78 47 F9
Re: Do not touch l10n files (was Re: DDTP issue)
On Tue, 13 May 2003, Martin Quinson wrote: On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 09:42:16AM +0200, Fabio Massimo Di Nitto wrote: If you really believe that the apache description should be improved than you file a bug against apache asking to changing layout, proposing the better one so that everyone can be alligned to it. If I understand well, you are bored because you think that the layout used in french could be good in all languages, but the french translators sort of kept it for themselves. No, I am not bored. People in some msgs wrote that the french layout is better. I am not against the fact that it can be better. Just use the right way so that everyone can benefit in a similar way. But we didn't do that because we don't think that the french typographical rules should be used in all languages, as well as we think that the english typographical rules do not apply in French. We are performing a lot of reviews to ensure that the quality of the translation is good. 3 translators were agreed to use this translation. We did not, i will repeat this until the end of the world, discuss the quality of the contents. We are discussing the layout. No, not exactly. We are not discussing esthetical layout here. ok, my fault here that i was missing the esthetical. This layout in french is not only esthetical, it must be so because of typographical rules[1]. That's why we didn't think that all languages must follow the same rules. In written french, the typographical rules have almost the same impact than gramatical ones. But feel free to adapt this new layout to the original text if you want to. Only, don't try to prevent us to follow the rules in our language. I don't want to prevent you to use your language like i wouldn't like the otherw ay around. Is there any way to be closer to the original esthetical layout? feel free to submit a bug report to change it globally ;) Fabio -- Our mission: make IPv6 the default IP protocol We are on a mission from God - Elwood Blues http://www.itojun.org/paper/itojun-nanog-200210-ipv6isp/mgp4.html
Re: The Debian Mentors Project
On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 09:33:50PM -0700, tony mancill wrote: Appropos of this and Colin's statement, my suggestion is to make only a deb-src URL available on the site, and to only host source packages. For packages destined for the Debian archive, it's critical that they be reviewed as source, and that they build from source. I do a fair amount of sponsoring, and never have need for a binary of the package being sponsored. As a long-time sponsor of a few people and packages (but nothing like the tmancill sponsor/advocate machine) I'd have to agree with Tony. I only use the tar.gz, diff and dsc from my sponsors. So the deb-src is a good idea. - Craig -- Craig Small VK2XLZ GnuPG:1C1B D893 1418 2AF4 45EE 95CB C76C E5AC 12CA DFA5 Eye-Net Consulting http://www.enc.com.au/[EMAIL PROTECTED] MIEEE [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian developer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The Debian Mentors Project
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 03:51:42PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 10:48:03PM +0200, Daniel K. Gebhart wrote: --- Debian Mentors Project The mentors core-team is: Christoph Haas (ChrisH)[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ivo Marino (eim) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daniel K. Gebhart (con-fuse) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Christoph Siess (CHS) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Uh, as far as I can tell, of the above only Daniel is even in the n-m queue; Christoph, Ivo and Christoph appear to not be developers, applicants, or even sponsored maintainers of any packages in the archive. ] In longer terms: only registered Debian developers (DD) are allowed to ] upload packages directly into the official Debian distribution. But ] becoming a DD is a long and painful way. Daniel applied to be a maintainer on 2003-03-18 and was assigned an application manager nine days ago, according to nm.debian.org. Why are we giving debian.net addresses to people who don't want to go through the pain of authenticating themselves to Debian, demonstrating they no what they're doing, and agreeing with Debian's principles? I do not think that the fact that they have not applied yet, can be taken as sign that they don't want to go through the pain of authenticating themselves to Debian, demonstrating they no what they're doing, and agreeing with Debian's principles. They might simply not feel ready, one should start the NM process, when (s)he is ready for TS and PP and has an advocate. NM is just the final exam, and no How to be DD in 6 months course. cu andreas -- See, I told you they'd listen to Reason, [SPOILER] Svfurlr fnlf, fuhggvat qbja gur juveyvat tha. Neal Stephenson in Snow Crash pgpIsQ1ZjmQtf.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Do not touch l10n files (was Re: DDTP issue)
Hi ! Apologies are due for the thread in french in which you were not cc'ed. So impolite as it may seems, though, you adressed to the french translation team as a whole, and I think every people who jumped in this thread were willing to adopt a common standpoint on this issue before you would be given an official reply from the french translation team. I reviewed the apache-ssl description, which is identical to this one. And I approved the layout change. But I understand your point and partly agree. I do not understand why the previous translation was alligned to our layout and noone is still able to give me an answer about this. Denis told earlier the itemized list is the _preferred_ format for a long list and that's all there is to it. This is in no way mandatory. Most people seem to think this format is better for the reader. I do. As Jean-Philippe noted, there is no grammatical difference between this format and the comma-separated one. Both are correct, which doesn't mean both are equally efficient to ease the reading, but I don't like the french exception standing as I am pretty sure that most languages, if not all, are able to distinguish between itemized lists and inline ones. So the sort answer is: the layout changed because someone had the idea to change it and the others thought the new one was better. If you really believe that the apache description should be improved than you file a bug against apache asking to changing layout, proposing the better one so that everyone can be alligned to it. I totally agree with you on this point. The other languages should beneficiate from the improvement (we obviously think it's an improvement since we approved it) and a bug report should have been filed. At least the maintainer would be aware of it and decide if this is a french-only issue or if it's relevant for the english (and possibly other) version. Now the question is: do (or should) the maintainer have authority on the translations ? from the translator point of view you should only translate. That's what i do when i submit italian translation. If have a concern about anything else i ask the maintainer. prove that I am wrong. Granted, but only translate is much more than just taking each word and putting an equivalent from the dictionnary. You often have to organize things differently if you want the translation appear as a native work to the readers. Generaly speeking, we (people aware of l10n and i18n) believe that the maintainer's job is not to deal with these issues. Translators are bored to fix maintainers mistakes. Moreover, I believe that a maintainer should not loose his time on l10n. Yes we do. just an examoke: http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/ch-best-pkging-practices.en.html#s-bpp-pkg-desc The long description should consist of full and complete sentences. I miss to see how a list can fullfil this reference. Maybe it would help to know why this recommendation is given in the first place ? Do the itemized list format break anything (nobody seems to be aware of it) ? Or is it just to avoid having descriptions lazily written, without verbs and so on ? The itemized list is still a full and complete sentence anyway. The question is Why do you want to have its layout alligned with the others ? I could simply ask you the question the other way around: why do you want to be different from all the others? but it's a chicken egg stupid game. The reason is simple. The DD decide the layout and the descriptio and it is responsable for it again the community and the users, no matter in which language. All the others cope with our layout and i don't see any language barrier that does not permit you to do so. The real question is: who is responsible of what ? The translators should be absolutely responsible of their work, in my opinion, and bugs concerning translations should go to them, not to the maintainer. If any team decide not to cope with your layout, it should be their problem, not yours. And they should be able to manage the complaints, if any. Laurent
Re: can touch(1) readonly files
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 04:59:24PM +0800, Dan Jacobson wrote: But how can I protect _myself_ from _myself_? you cant, since you always can change the permissions of the file back to writeable. Protection from yourself, especially if you are root are extended Unix features (like for example immutable and append only files, RBAC or SELinux). And it is still not a core-utils bug but a property of the Linux kernel. Greetings Bernd -- (OO) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ( .. ) [EMAIL PROTECTED],linux.de,debian.org} http://home.pages.de/~eckes/ o--o *plush* 2048/93600EFD [EMAIL PROTECTED] +497257930613 BE5-RIPE (OO) When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!
Re: Do not touch l10n files (was Re: DDTP issue)
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 12:37:46PM +0200, Martin Quinson wrote: If I understand well, you are bored because you think that the layout used in french could be good in all languages, but the french translators sort of kept it for themselves. But we didn't do that because we don't think that the french typographical rules should be used in all languages, as well as we think that the english typographical rules do not apply in French. If you're going to do something as substantial as this why not drop the maintainer an e-mail about it? Tell them things like what you intend to do and that while you don't know if it's appropriate for other language it's needed for yours for whatever reason. That way maintainers know what's going so they don't get surprised looking at what you've done and if the change is something they want to pick up in general then they can. For example, we always put a space before the colon symbol (a non-breaking space when technically possible), but we won't repport as an error in the original text a colon without space before (as requiered by english typographical rules). That's the same kind of thing for us. Changing from a paragraph of text to a bulleted list is a rather more substantial change than that - it looks like the text has been restructured. -- You grabbed my hand and we fell into it, like a daydream - or a fever.
Re: The Debian Mentors Project
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 10:02:11AM +0200, Christoph Haas wrote: You are right. I do plan to apply in a few weeks. However the service was created especially for people who e.g. have written an application themselves and do not care about becoming a DD. Is that such a good thing? It might get us an initial package of some new software, but will it get us a package that is continually and well maintained? We already have hundreds (if not thousands) of poor quality packages; I don't think we need new technology to churn these out. Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt VK3SB [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The Debian Mentors Project
On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 10:48:03PM +0200, Daniel K. Gebhart wrote: [...] The mentors core-team is: [...] the debian mentors core-team core team? So, when can we expect expulsions? :) -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness. Please Cc: unless you mail -devel.
Re: can touch(1) readonly files
On Tue, 13 May 2003 21:53, Bernd Eckenfels wrote: On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 04:59:24PM +0800, Dan Jacobson wrote: But how can I protect _myself_ from _myself_? Protection from yourself, especially if you are root are extended Unix features (like for example immutable and append only files, RBAC or SELinux). And it is still not a core-utils bug but a property of the Linux kernel. Bernd is correct. It's a kernel issue. SE Linux allows you to determine who has setattr permission for each file, writing to a file or appending to it will still change the time stamps in the usual fashion, but write and append access can be controlled independantly of read access too. SE Linux allows control over what your processes do. Running a particular program can automatically transition to a different domain with different levels of access to various resources. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page
Re: mailcap to mc.ext script
I found better solution. Don't generate a mc.ext file, just use
run-mailcap for default action for every file. And also we can keep a
few special treating files, like ie. archives.
I've attached my proposition of mc.ext and I'm going to add this to a
wishlist.
Regards.
Marcin
--
.---, --: mcINEK :--
/ ,. \ ' T h e O w l s a r e n o t
| | ; ;W h a t T h e y S e e m . . . '
\ `._ /wrote on Debian GNU/Linux SID
# Midnight Commander 3.0 extension file
# Warning: Structure of this file has changed completely with version 3.0
#
# All lines starting with # or empty lines are thrown away.
# Lines starting in the first column should have following format:
#
# keyword/descNL, i.e. everything after keyword/ until new line is desc
#
# keyword can be:
#
#shell (desc is, when starting with a dot, any extension (no wildcars),
# i.e. matches all the files *desc . Example: .tar matches *.tar;
# if it doesn't start with a dot, it matches only a file of that name)
#
#regex (desc is an extended regular expression)
# Please note that we are using the GNU regex library and thus
# \| matches the literal | and | has special meaning (or) and
# () have special meaning and \( \) stand for literal ( ).
#
#type (file matches this if `file %f` matches regular expression desc
# (the filename: part from `file %f` is removed))
#
#directory (matches any directory matching regular expression desc)
#
#include (matches an include directive)
#
#default (matches any file no matter what desc is)
#
# Other lines should start with a space or tab and should be in the format:
#
# keyword=commandNL (with no spaces around =), where keyword should be:
#
#Open (if the user presses Enter or doubleclicks it),
#
#View (F3), Edit (F4)
#
#Include is the keyword used to add any further entries from an include/
#section
#
# command is any one-line shell command, with the following substitutions:
#
# %% - % character
# %p - name of the current file (without path, but pwd is its path)
# %f - name of the current file. Unlike %p, if file is located on a
# non-local virtual filesystem, i.e. either tarfs, mcfs or ftpfs,
# then the file will be temporarily copied into a local directory
# and %f will be the full path to this local temporal file.
# If you don't want to get a local copy and want to get the
# virtual fs path (like /#ftp:ftp.cvut.cz/pub/hungry/xword), then
# use %d/%p instead of %f.
# %d - name of the current directory (pwd, without trailing slash)
# %s - selected files, i.e. space separated list of tagged files if any
# or name of the current file
# %t - list of tagged files
# %u - list of tagged files (they'll be untaged after the command)
#
# (If these 6 letters are in uppercase, they refer to the other panel.
# But you shouldn't have to use it in this file.)
#
#
# %cd - the rest is a path mc should change into (cd won't work, since it's
# a child process). %cd handles even vfs names.
#
# %view - the command you type will be piped into mc's internal file viewer
# if you type only the %view and no command, viewer will load %f file
# instead (i.e. no piping, so it is different to %view cat %f)
# %view may be directly followed by {} with a list of any of
# ascii (Ascii mode), hex (Hex mode), nroff (color highlighting for
# text using backspace for bold and underscore) and unform
# (no highlighting for nroff sequences) separated by commas.
#
# %var - You use it like this: %var{VAR:default}. This macro will expand
# to the value of the VAR variable in the environment if it's set
# otherwise the value in default will be used. This is similar to
# the Bourne shell ${VAR-default} construct.
#
# Rules are applied from top to bottom, thus the order is important.
# If some actions are missing, search continues as if this target didn't
# match (i.e. if a file matches the first and second entry and View action
# is missing in the first one, then on pressing F3 the View action from
# the second entry will be used. default should catch all the actions.
#
# Any new entries you develop for you are always welcome if they are
# useful on more than one system. You can send your modifications
# by e-mail to mc-devel@gnome.org
### Changes ###
#
# 2003-05-13 Using run-mailcap
#
# Reorganization: 2000-05-01 Michal Svec [EMAIL PROTECTED]
### Archives (to enable 'passing thru' like dirs) ###
# .tgz, .tpz, .tar.gz, .tar.z, .tar.Z
regex/\.t([gp]?z|ar\.g?[zZ])$
Open=%cd %p#utar
View=%view{ascii} gzip -dc %f 2/dev/null | tar tvvf -
regex/\.tar\.bz$
# Open=%cd %p#utar
View=%view{ascii} bzip -dc %f 2/dev/null | tar
Re: The Debian Mentors Project
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 12:07:12PM +0200, Emile van Bergen wrote: [...] Regardless, I actually think it's a wonderful scaleability measure to provide some infrastructure that allows DDs to delegate some of the packaging work to NMs in the queue, who can prove that they are worth their salt, or to non-DDs, who can contribute to the project in a controlled manner that way. This is conceptually wrong: if a DD wishes to co-maintain his package, Debian offers alioth.d.o which is already up and running; if he wishes to delegate... who wishes to delegate the maintainership of a package? I'd rather say that a DD sponsors other non-DD contributions. There is a plenty of ways a NM can contribute/join Debian: packaging is only the simpliest. Try to take some job or a package from the QA, a task from http://www.debian.org/devel/todo/ or anything that can came out from the Developer's corner section on the main site. Non-DDs contributing in this way do not help Debian: have you ever read of our lacks of packages? You don't, because we haven't. Do you want to proove your salt? You can do the same things a NM can do (see above). You insist in maintaining a package, well take one and work on alioth in the mean while. I think there is a niche for such non-DD contributors. No there is not. The fact is that if one wants to contribute Debian, that is to say help the DDs, he should work in those fields Debian needs help. Allowing DDs to take advantage of the work of lesser gods, whenever that is practical and useful, seems a good thing for all parties concerned. that's a pity... there is no one here who feels to be a god: unfortunately, there are many outside here that think to be... looser gods. And no, IANADD. We don't need you to tell us: db.debian.org does it. Finally, i do not understand why you quoted my mail... I was only objecting with this sentence: But becoming a DD is a long and painful way. Many developers just want to make their software available to Debian users but not become DDs. They are invited to upload their packages here and tell other users about this server. If you ask me what i think about mentors.debian.net i'd say we do not need such a service: i would have made any contributor to use alioth (register, work on your favorite package and release it). A better service would have been to create a place to coordinate people looking for sponsorship with those willing to offer it. ciao, -- Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis | Elegant or ugly code as well aliases: Luca ^De [A-Z][A-Za-z\-]*[iy]'\?s$ | as fine or rude sentences have Luca, a wannabe ``Good guy''. | something in common: they local LANG=[EMAIL PROTECTED] | don't depend on the language.
Re: The Debian Mentors Project
Christoph Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: However the service was created especially for people who e.g. have written an application themselves and do not care about becoming a DD. I object to the conept of people who do not care about becoming a DD becoming maintainers of packages. Permitting prospective developers to get sponsored packages in Debian is generally accepted (but not by me), but allowing any random hacker to get a package in without even starting the new-maintainer process is totally unacceptable. Regards, Bob -- _ |_) _ |_Robert D. Hilliard[EMAIL PROTECTED] |_) (_) |_) 1294 S.W. Seagull Way [EMAIL PROTECTED] Palm City, FL 34990 USA GPG Key ID: 390D6559
Re: can touch(1) readonly files
Wouter Verhelst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can only do that if you have write permissions to the directory the file is in; if not: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr$ touch -d 'next year' doc; ls -ld doc . touch: setting times of `doc': Operation not permitted drwxr-xr-x 16 root root 472 Apr 28 03:21 . drwxr-xr-x2 root root 7568 May 13 02:42 doc Wrong. The error here comes from the fact that, just as described in the documentation, you don't own the file. If I can't write to the directory, but I own the file, I can still make the change: $ mkdir foo $ cd foo $ touch file $ chmod a-w . file $ touch -d 'next year' file $ ll -d . file dr-xr-xr-x2 prj default72 May 13 11:22 . -r--r--r--1 prj default 0 May 13 2004 file This is because those timestamps are saved in the directory inode instead of in the file inode, so closing down permissions on the file won't prevent anyone from tampering with timestamps. No, the file's metadata is stored in its own inode. But its permission bits affect access only to its data, not to its metadata. Metadata is always writable by the owner - otherwise you wouldn't be able to restore your own write access after removing it. paul
Re: Debian MIA check
On the 12th March I sent out a maintainer ping to 191 possibly inactive Debian developers. The list of developers was generated by looking first at all maintainers who didn't have a source package signed by (one of) their key(s) in unstable and then excluding from that anyone who had been seen (with a signed message) by echelon in the last 6 months. Nice job. It's about time we got this under control. -- Debian - http://www.debian.org/ Linux 1394 - http://www.linux1394.org/ Subversion - http://subversion.tigris.org/ Deqo - http://www.deqo.com/
Re: The Debian Mentors Project
Hi, On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 09:48:49AM -0500, Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis wrote: On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 12:07:12PM +0200, Emile van Bergen wrote: [...] Regardless, I actually think it's a wonderful scaleability measure to provide some infrastructure that allows DDs to delegate some of the packaging work to NMs in the queue, who can prove that they are worth their salt, or to non-DDs, who can contribute to the project in a controlled manner that way. This is conceptually wrong: if a DD wishes to co-maintain his package, Debian offers alioth.d.o which is already up and running; if he wishes to delegate... who wishes to delegate the maintainership of a package? I'd rather say that a DD sponsors other non-DD contributions. That's not mutually exclusive. Also, you ask who would ever wish to delegate the maintainership of a package. I think the answer is every DD who has filed a RFA on a package. There may be DDs who rather see another DD adopt the package, but I imagine that most will rather see a NM or non-DD adopt it, possibly sponsored by himself if he has some time remaining for this package, than seeing it actually orphaned. This is a different, looser form of delegation than working together on Alioth on it. There is a plenty of ways a NM can contribute/join Debian: packaging is only the simpliest. Try to take some job or a package from the QA, a task from http://www.debian.org/devel/todo/ or anything that can came out from the Developer's corner section on the main site. Non-DDs contributing in this way do not help Debian: have you ever read of our lacks of packages? You don't, because we haven't. I know. However, there are *existing* packages for which DDs don't always have enough time or interest. If you think that isn't true, then what are all those orphaned packages doing on WNPP? I think there is a niche for such non-DD contributors. No there is not. The fact is that if one wants to contribute Debian, that is to say help the DDs, he should work in those fields Debian needs help. I know. But because of the packages up for adoption, and the orphaned packages, I was under the impression that the DDs need help with those packages. If that's not the case, why are those orphaned packages not removed outright? Allowing DDs to take advantage of the work of lesser gods, whenever that is practical and useful, seems a good thing for all parties concerned. that's a pity... there is no one here who feels to be a god: unfortunately, there are many outside here that think to be... looser gods. It's just a phrase. I haven't a clue what looser gods are, BTW. Finally, i do not understand why you quoted my mail... I was only objecting with this sentence: But becoming a DD is a long and painful way. Many developers just want to make their software available to Debian users but not become DDs. They are invited to upload their packages here and tell other users about this server. Well, I didn't see why you would object to the second sentence. If somebody's able to maintain a package through a sponsor well, he may still have no desire to become a DD. I agree that the very last sentence is a little questionable; this function may already be provided by apt-get.org. However, from the original announcement I understood that the primary target audience is not the users, but potential sponsors, so that the packages may be (or remain, in the orphaned case) part of Debian -- if the sponsoring DDs think they are worthwhile and the packager did a good job that is. From the original announcement at http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2003/debian-devel-200305/msg00756.html This project is a benefit for maintainers (non-DDs) and their sponsors (DDs). Maintainers are able to upload packagages to mentors.debian.net and point their sponsors to this server. Sponsors can download and test this packages by downloading them after expansion their sources.list[2]. If you ask me what i think about mentors.debian.net i'd say we do not need such a service: i would have made any contributor to use alioth (register, work on your favorite package and release it). A better service would have been to create a place to coordinate people looking for sponsorship with those willing to offer it. Well, mentors.debian.net exists, whereas the one you're describing does not, so apparently people felt more need for the former. Cheers, Emile. -- E-Advies - Emile van Bergen [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel. +31 (0)70 3906153 http://www.e-advies.nl pgpetPG5av3hy.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian MIA check
James Troup wrote: Jay Kominek [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nathan Myers [EMAIL PROTECTED] I happen to know of a machine Jay logged into yesterday, so I have emailed him at that account. I have mailed Nathan too, though he seems to be in the middle of a job change and move. My, a lot of folks I hate to see go, but James has done an excellent job. Oh and James, would you mind listing those who retired to emeritus? Here is a list of packages in unstable maintained by people on James's lists. May not be complete, but I grepped for names and for emails seperately so probably found most of them. Mail bounces: Chris Reed xitalk Dale James Thompson postilion No reply: Andrew Feinberg gnap Craig Brozefsky cl-uncommonsql-oracle cl-imho cl-local-time cl-local-time-db cl-odcl cl-uncommonsql cl-uncommonsql-mysql cl-uncommonsql-postgresql libapache-mod-webapp Greg Olszewski vtun Jean Pierre LeJacq cracklib-runtime cracklib2 cracklib2-dev wn Joost Kooij xbat Joost Witteveen menu(but Bill Allombert is a co-maintainer) Justin Maurer swisswatch Karl Bartel black-box penguin-command Luis Francisco Gonzalez tcsh tcsh-i18n tcsh-kanji urlview xgammon Matthew Schlegel escm gauche jfbterm Pavel Tcholakov hylafax-client hylafax-doc hylafax-server R. Garth Wood slocate Ted Whalen wm2 Tor Slettnes mindi mondo smail xcdroast yard zmailer zmailer-ssl Vaidhyanathan Mayilrangam ckermit -- see shy jo pgp6qOHewIqSF.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Do not touch l10n files (was Re: DDTP issue)
Bonjour, I am french and I don't regard the 'Imprimerie Nationale' rules as binding. We are still a free country. Do we have such standard document for the original english description ? No, and there is no dedicated team to review them. I think we should focus on provided accurate description not typographically correct one. Keeping things simple so that Debian maintainers can understand what is coming along with the translation is important, because they have the final responsibility of the package. Telling them 'you do not speak french, so don't try to understand' is not acceptable. I do speak french and I have often trouble to understand myself. If you have a problem with the original translation, please ask the maintainer before doing the translation. We should work with him and not against him. Amicalement, Bill
Re: can touch(1) readonly files
On Tue, 13 May 2003, Paul Jarc wrote: No, the file's metadata is stored in its own inode. But its permission bits affect access only to its data, not to its metadata. Metadata is always writable by the owner - otherwise you wouldn't be able to restore your own write access after removing it. Reminds me of a bug in the old Icon systems that the schools used in the early 80's or so. The immutable(+i) flag couldn't be removed, even by the superuser because then you'd be modifying the file, which wasn't allowed cause of the +i. So if a student did that on a file, it was there forever until the system was reinstalled. At least, this is what we were told, I suspect somehow the teacher was told this by someone who didn't understand how the +i was supposed to work. Mike
Re: Debian MIA check
[James Troup] On the 12th March I sent out a maintainer ping to 191 possibly inactive Debian developers. The list of developers was generated by looking first at all maintainers who didn't have a source package signed by (one of) their key(s) in unstable and then excluding from that anyone who had been seen (with a signed message) by echelon in the last 6 months. Very good to see some active work trying to detect missing developers. :) o 90 people didn't reply within the 2 month deadline[2]. If you haven't already done so, please send each of them them an email telling them that their debian maintainer status is disabled. I do not know how your first email was phrased, but some of them might have put it aside and forgot to reply to it. They should get an email telling them about the consequenses, and that their debian maintainer status is disabled because of this. This would make sure they know what happened, if they still recieve their email.
Re: show all Suggests packages not installed
On Monday 12 May 2003 04:40 pm, Brian May wrote: Also, just blindly purging packages can be dangerous, in some cases old packages will purge files used by newer packages that are still used by the system. I'm pretty sure that would be a bug. You should report this behavior if you see it. Although I won't deny this happens, purging completely unused packages is generally a good idea, unless you want your system building up a nice history of everything it has ever been used for. - Keegan
apt/dselect: E: Internal Error, Unable to parse a package record
Whats wrong here? something in the Packages files or on my machine? --- Get:1 ftp://ftp.fi.debian.org unstable/main Packages [2484kB] Get:2 ftp://ftp.dk.debian.org unstable/main Packages [2481kB] Get:3 ftp://ftp.fi.debian.org unstable/main Release [82B] Get:4 ftp://ftp.dk.debian.org unstable/main Release [82B] Get:5 ftp://ftp.fi.debian.org unstable/non-free Packages [70.4kB] Get:6 ftp://ftp.dk.debian.org unstable/non-free Packages [70.4kB] Get:7 ftp://ftp.fi.debian.org unstable/non-free Release [86B] Get:8 ftp://ftp.dk.debian.org unstable/non-free Release [86B] Get:9 ftp://ftp.dk.debian.org unstable/contrib Packages [78.5kB] Get:10 ftp://ftp.fi.debian.org unstable/contrib Packages [78.5kB] Get:11 ftp://ftp.dk.debian.org unstable/contrib Release [85B] Get:12 ftp://ftp.fi.debian.org unstable/contrib Release [85B] Get:13 ftp://ftp.fi.debian.org unstable/non-US/main Packages [13.0kB] Get:14 ftp://ftp.dk.debian.org unstable/non-US/main Packages [13.0kB] Get:15 ftp://ftp.fi.debian.org unstable/non-US/main Release [89B] Get:16 ftp://ftp.fi.debian.org unstable/non-US/non-free Packages [2265B] Get:17 ftp://ftp.fi.debian.org unstable/non-US/non-free Release [93B] Get:18 ftp://ftp.dk.debian.org unstable/non-US/main Release [89B] Get:19 ftp://ftp.fi.debian.org unstable/non-US/contrib Packages [400B] Get:20 ftp://ftp.dk.debian.org unstable/non-US/non-free Packages [2265B] Get:21 ftp://ftp.dk.debian.org unstable/non-US/non-free Release [93B] Get:22 ftp://ftp.fi.debian.org unstable/non-US/contrib Release [92B] Get:23 ftp://ftp.dk.debian.org unstable/non-US/contrib Packages [400B] Get:24 ftp://ftp.dk.debian.org unstable/non-US/contrib Release [92B] Fetched 5295kB in 19s (267kB/s) Reading Package Lists... Done Merging Available information E: Internal Error, Unable to parse a package record update available list script returned error exit status 100. Press enter to continue. --- -- echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln256%Pln256/snlbx]sb382793634903snlbx806007844 59087snlbx71765988876376snlbx11172185121099snlbx'|\dc :prox:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:icq.18682823:www.vger.org: :unix/linux.admin/coder:www.vger.org/cv.html:
Re: Debian MIA check
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 12:11:16PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote: [snip] Joost Kooij xbat [snip] FWIW, Joost responded to me last Nov (gee, has it been that long ago already? :-/) for NMU'ing xbat. If he still fails to respond, I could take over the package. T -- Uhh, I'm still not here. -- KD, while away on ICQ. pgpTmTxmeFWR2.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Delegations
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 04:00:23AM +1000, Martin Michlmayr - Debian Project Leader wrote: Over the last few weeks, I have talked to several developers who are involved in important areas of Debian. I will continue to do this in order to get a clear picture of where help is needed. [security team, Project Secretary, OASIS representative, Desktop Linux Consortium representative] Other than the changes described above, everything remains the same for now. Has there been any progress in formalizing the delegate status of positions that existed prior to the ratification of our Constitution? Do the people occupying these positions believe themselves to be delegates or not? -- G. Branden Robinson|Somewhere, there is a .sig so funny Debian GNU/Linux |that reading it will cause an [EMAIL PROTECTED] |aneurysm. This is not that .sig. http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | pgp3ZK37rnj7J.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian MIA check
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 02:41:49PM +0100, James Troup wrote: On the 12th March I sent out a maintainer ping to 191 possibly inactive Debian developers. The list of developers was generated by looking first at all maintainers who didn't have a source package signed by (one of) their key(s) in unstable and then excluding from that anyone who had been seen (with a signed message) by echelon in the last 6 months. Excellent! I for one am very glad to see this being worked on. Of the 191 pings were sent out: o 34 people's ping bounced[1]. o 28 people replied asking to be retired. o 29 people replied with various different responses. o 10 people replied who were active. o 90 people didn't reply within the 2 month deadline[2]. Would it be possible to get a list of people in the middle three categories? (Or is that forthcoming?) I presume that for the retirees, at least, orphaning of their packages is in order. There will be 4 states for any given account in LDAP: o [default] o Emeritus o Disabled o Memorial The [default] state is what the majority of accounts will be in; I don't want to call it 'active' because that would be misleading. Maybe operational? So, the 34 people who's email bounced and 90 people who didn't reply will have their account set to the 'disabled' status. The 28 people who asked to be retired will be set to 'emeritus'. If you know how to reach any of the people listed in [1] and [2] below, please feel free to contact them and get them to reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Is there a mnemonic for that? I.e., does wat stand for something? Finally, this is only the start of what will hopefully be an ongoing process; further pings based on other criteria are planned and also the results of Martin's MIA work will be acted on. Thanks again. -- G. Branden Robinson| Organized religion is a sham and a Debian GNU/Linux | crutch for weak-minded people who [EMAIL PROTECTED] | need strength in numbers. http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | -- Jesse Ventura pgpfNCf2h8WBr.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: apt/dselect: E: Internal Error, Unable to parse a package record
On Tue, May 13, 2003, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Whats wrong here? something in the Packages files or on my machine? Something in apt. See #192439 and others. -- Sam.
Re: ABI change in libsensors1 (from lm-sensors)
Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 01:45:30PM -0400, David Z Maze wrote: (a) Repackaging lm-sensors 2.6.5, which would just have libsensors1 1:2.6.5-1, which in turn would Conflict: with any packages that have compiled against libsensors1 2.7.0 (AFAIK, just one). (b) Changing the soname of libsensors.so to libsensors.so.1.debian.1 in lm-sensors 2.7.0, and changing the name of the library package to libsensors-1debian1, and changing the shlibs file appropriately. (c) Checking that the user-kernel interface hasn't changed; that is, that the 2.6.5 library works vs. 2.7.0 modules, and vice versa. Is this a reasonable course of action? The soname feels a little ugly to me, but otherwise, assuming (c), it does feel like about the right thing to do. You're talking about doing all of the above? If you do (b) and (c), why do you still need to do (a)? (I.e., why would you maintain two versions of the library in unstable simultaneously?) Doing (b) and (c) seems reasonable, at least. But if you don't have kernel interface issues from (c), I don't see why you would want (a). I'd like packages that haven't recompiled vs. libsensors-1debian1 to still work. (a) would mean providing the old libsensors1 with the old ABI, which would enable this. (If (c) works and I do (b) but not (a), then the lm-sensors source package now provides libsensors-dev and libsensors-1debian1, and nothing provides libsensors1.) -- David Maze [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://people.debian.org/~dmaze/ Theoretical politics is interesting. Politicking should be illegal. -- Abra Mitchell
Re: The Debian Mentors Project
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 05:41:12PM +0200, Emile van Bergen wrote: That's not mutually exclusive. Also, you ask who would ever wish to delegate the maintainership of a package. I think the answer is every DD who has filed a RFA on a package. RFA is a Request For Adoption, not a delegation. There is no sense in makeing a delegation. If one cannot/don't want to maintain a package any more, he lets other people to take it (RFA or O). I know. However, there are *existing* packages for which DDs don't always have enough time or interest. If you think that isn't true, then what are all those orphaned packages doing on WNPP? [...] I know. But because of the packages up for adoption, and the orphaned packages, I was under the impression that the DDs need help with those packages. So what's the point? there is someone who wants to maintain a package? Well: he should take it, close as many bugs as possible, produce a good working release, and bring us a results. Then what? what does he really need? a repository for his work or a sponsor? Both you'd say, and that's it. For the former he may use alioth, for the later he needs a place to look for a willing sponsor. If that's not the case, why are those orphaned packages not removed outright? They are periodically removed. Well, I didn't see why you would object to the second sentence. If somebody's able to maintain a package through a sponsor well, he may still have no desire to become a DD. So that's the point: you didn't got my reply at all. That sentence is unfair because it blame the NM process, while mentors.debian.net try to be a Debian subproject. Debian that blames Debian? Well, mentors.debian.net exists, whereas the one you're describing does not, so apparently people felt more need for the former. http://www.internatif.org/bortzmeyer/debian/sponsor/ Have you ever seen our Developer's corner? ciao, -- Luca - De Whiskey's - De Vitis | Elegant or ugly code as well aliases: Luca ^De [A-Z][A-Za-z\-]*[iy]'\?s$ | as fine or rude sentences have Luca, a wannabe ``Good guy''. | something in common: they local LANG=[EMAIL PROTECTED] | don't depend on the language.
Re: Debian MIA check
Greetings James, I note that Yasuhiro Take ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is not listed in your missive. He is maintainer for the Defoma package which has a large number of bug reports some of which have apparently been corrected by NMU's but not closed. There is a recent critical bug (#181749, 82 days old) which the submitter has proposed a correction. As a result of the lack of action on Mr. Take's part regarding these outstanding bug reports, the Defoma package has been listed as orphaned (#180188) before the critical bug (#181749) was submitted. I am attempting to step up to the plate, and I am experiencing a high level of difficulties unravelling the many instructions for becominig a maintainer as well as groking the source code (perl with a bash or sh script against which bug #181749 has been filed). Perhaps you could include Mr. Take in your attempt to clarify package maintainer status. Cheerio! fgd. kl7fhx On Tue, 13 May 2003 14:41:49 +0100 James Troup [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, On the 12th March I sent out a maintainer ping to 191 possibly inactive Debian developers. The list of developers was generated by looking first at all maintainers who didn't have a source package signed by (one of) their key(s) in unstable and then excluding from that anyone who had been seen (with a signed message) by echelon in the last 6 months. snip - -- James = snip -- Fielder George Dowding, Chief Iceworm dba Iceworm Enterprises, Anchorage, Alaska Since 1976 - Over 25 Years of Service.
Re: Debian MIA check
Hi, [ the following assumes the packages being orphaned ] Joey Hess wrote: Luis Francisco Gonzalez tcsh tcsh-i18n tcsh-kanji uuh, tcsh is an OpenOffice.org Build-Dependency I wouldn't take it because I don't use it, but we need it... Tor Slettnes mindi mondo Ugh.. My backup solution... In emergency - being noone else taking it - I would take it, but I do have very limited time now already... BTW: The BTS and apt-cache show shows Hector Garcia [EMAIL PROTECTED] as mindi/mondo's maintainer... Regards, Rene -- -- .''`. Rene Engelhard -- Debian GNU/Linux Developer : :' : http://www.debian.org | http://people.debian.org/~rene/ `. `' [EMAIL PROTECTED] | GnuPG-Key ID: 248AEB73 `- Fingerprint: 41FA F208 28D4 7CA5 19BB 7AD9 F859 90B0 248A EB73 pgp3uSTPCHC0n.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian MIA check
* Fielder George Dowding [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2003-05-13 09:34]: I note that Yasuhiro Take ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is not listed in your missive. Yes, because the criteria outlined in the first paragraph of James' message don't apply to him. However, we are also checking for other inactive people, including Take. Here's what happened about him so far: take: 2003-02-07: Orphaned: defoma 2003-04-19: Contact: scigraphica-common 2003-05-09: follow-up -- Martin Michlmayr [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: can touch(1) readonly files
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 11:10:26PM +1000, Russell Coker wrote: Bernd is correct. It's a kernel issue. SE Linux allows you [...] SE Linux allows control [...] Russell, you are such a pimp. ;-) -- G. Branden Robinson| To stay young requires unceasing Debian GNU/Linux | cultivation of the ability to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | unlearn old falsehoods. http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | -- Robert Heinlein pgpH8KIwPv2y9.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Do not touch l10n files (was Re: DDTP issue)
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 10:14:33AM +0200, Yannick Roehlly wrote: In France, we have an expression that says a storm in a glass of water. We have a similar expression in (American) English. It's a tempest in a teapot. [1] http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-tem1.htm -- G. Branden Robinson| There's nothing an agnostic can't Debian GNU/Linux | do if he doesn't know whether he [EMAIL PROTECTED] | believes in it or not. http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | -- Graham Chapman pgphvVM60aQ1f.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: The Debian Mentors Project
I'm glad to see this service. The Developer's Reference lists http://www.internatif.org/bortzmeyer/debian/sponsor/ as being a place to co-ordinate the sponsoring of packages. Currently it's unavailable to me (down?). Other problems I have with it include: no place to upload packages and it's for Sponsorship of future Debian developers. It's a great resource, but The Debian Mentors Project takes things a few steps further. mentors.debian.net provides a place to put packages and a chance for people to use the Debian system for uploading packages (dupload, dput...). It also allows for a chance to practice using keys and signing packages properly. Alioth takes things in a different direction. Alioth allows non-Dd's to contribute directly to an active project and provides space to put packages. Alioth can be thought of as a better spot for packages as it doesn't easily allow for apt-get lines. Alioth does not allow for (afaik) the usage of dput and dupload which is good practice for people who want to become a Debian developer. Alioth doesn't seem to require that its users want to become Debian developers. Drew Daniels
Re: Debian MIA check
First off, great work! Now I can remove the retirement item off my old todo list. [1] On Tue, 13 May 2003, James Troup wrote: On the 12th March I sent out a maintainer ping to 191 possibly inactive Debian developers. The list of developers was generated by looking first at all maintainers who didn't have a source package signed by (one of) their key(s) in unstable and then excluding from that anyone who had been seen (with a signed message) by echelon in the last 6 months. echelon in this context meaning the mailing lists? As described in http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2000/debian-project-21/msg7.html ? A second ping to unresponsive and bounces might be nice in case of mailer problems. If a second ping is done it should probably be done before changing account status. It should probably say the results of the last ping and what will happen to their account. So to actually do anything about these MIA folks, some decisions had to be made about what to do with them WRT LDAP, their accounts etc. There will be 4 states for any given account in LDAP: o [default] o Emeritus o Disabled o Memorial The 'emeritus' state is for people who voluntarily retire. Their accounts are locked and their keys are moved to a separate keyring. Their email will continue to work for 6 months[a]. They lose vote, upload and -private reading privileges. What happens to email going to 'emeritus' status Debian accounts after 6 months? Bounce? The 'disabled' state is for people who don't respond to maintainer pings, their email bounces, or whatever - basically someone who's MIA. Things are the same as 'emeritus', except their email won't continue to work. After a year in this state the accounts will be purged[b] and will be available for reuse. I would encourage the bounced e-mail to say they are MIA. I'd also like to see a canonical location to store MIA names and information (I.e. a web page). What happened to the qa MIA database? The code's at http://cvs.debian.org/mia/?cvsroot=qa but I can't find anything online. I dislike having their accounts being available for reuse. It could cause confusion. I could give many examples of potential confusion. People in 'emeritus' or even 'disabled' can come back at anytime without going through new-maintainer; provided they can prove they control the key(s) associated with the account. But not nicely if their account gets reused. This could cause even more confusion. The 'memorial' is a special state used for accounts that are disabled but which we don't want reused to avoid confusion (at best), e.g. with developers who've passed away. What happens to e-mail going to these accounts? memorial bounce messages may be nice... I guess a bounce of any kind would be appropriate. So, the 34 people who's email bounced and 90 people who didn't reply will have their account set to the 'disabled' status. The 28 people who asked to be retired will be set to 'emeritus'. If you know how to reach any of the people listed in [1] and [2] below, please feel free to contact them and get them to reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Are does 'emeritus' status last for 6 months only? If not, other retired developers may be considered for 'emeritus' status. If so, what does their account status switch to? removed? Finally, this is only the start of what will hopefully be an ongoing process; further pings based on other criteria are planned and also the results of Martin's MIA work will be acted on. Automation deciding when to send a ping, sending a ping message, informing everyone of the results... would be great. Regular cleanups like this one would be good too. [b] Any files associated with the account will be either removed or moved to some holding area. Some guidelines to determine which or when account files are archived/removed may prevent future squabbles. Thanks for your efforts. [1] My old todo list is at http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2002/debian-user-200207/msg04836.html but I have newer lists on local systems with items removed, changed and added. Drew Daniels
Re: Do not touch l10n files (was Re: DDTP issue)
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 01:27:45PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: We have a similar expression in (American) English. It's a tempest in a teapot. Storm in a teacup for British English. -- You grabbed my hand and we fell into it, like a daydream - or a fever. pgpI2L6hffi5p.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Do not touch l10n files (was Re: DDTP issue)
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 05:56:08PM +0200, Bill Allombert wrote: Bonjour, I am french and I don't regard the 'Imprimerie Nationale' rules as binding. We are still a free country. Do we have such standard document for the original english description ? No, and there is no dedicated team to review them. debian-l10n-english I think we should focus on provided accurate description not typographically correct one. Why not both? Keeping things simple so that Debian maintainers can understand what is coming along with the translation is important, because they have the final responsibility of the package. Telling them 'you do not speak french, so don't try to understand' is not acceptable. Sure it is. If they believe that the translator is wrong, they can ask a trusted person of their own to review the translation. It is silly that people who do not speak a foreign language can have a judgement on what a translation should look like and perform changes in localized files (I am not talking about the Apache description here) without notifying the translator. I do speak french and I have often trouble to understand myself. If you have a problem with the original translation, I have no problem with it, it could and has been improved. please ask the maintainer before doing the translation. We should work with him and not against him. 'We'? I am glad to learn that you are going to let us benefit from your experience. Denis
Re: The Debian Mentors Project
Hi Daniel, On Mon, 12 May 2003, Daniel K. Gebhart wrote: We are very proud to announce the opening of the mentors project. We have been working very hard[1] on this project since beginning of 2003. Now the time has come to test and use it! Really nice job but the first side effect is already there: Package: icaclient Version: 6.30-2 Priority: optional Section: net Maintainer: Christoph Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Depends: libxaw7 Architecture: i386 Filename: dists/unstable/main/binary-i386/icaclient/icaclient_6.30-2_i386.deb Size: 1452972 MD5sum: 11ddd288ac7fa0e1e52f4bc545988e1b Description: Citrix ICA client The Citrix ICA client is needed to connect to Citrix terminal servers (Microsoft Windows-based multi-user servers). Caution: This program has a restrictive copyright. Maybe even packaging these files or using the packaged installation is illeagl. installed-size: 3780 I think upload must be moderated somehow. Even the uploader himself claim that he is unsure about licence of the product. I did not went trough all the thread so i will keep my mouth shut before repeating the same stuff over and over :-) Fabio -- Our mission: make IPv6 the default IP protocol We are on a mission from God - Elwood Blues http://www.itojun.org/paper/itojun-nanog-200210-ipv6isp/mgp4.html
Re: Do not touch l10n files (was Re: DDTP issue)
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 10:04:43PM +0200, Denis Barbier wrote: On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 05:56:08PM +0200, Bill Allombert wrote: Do we have such standard document for the original english description ? No, and there is no dedicated team to review them. debian-l10n-english There have been no email send to this list from November 2002 to February 2003. Can we call that a team ? I think we should focus on provided accurate description not typographically correct one. Why not both? One word: focus. You may have an infinite amount of time to spend on translation, but not all maintainers. Keeping focus on what is important save time and patience of everybody. Telling them 'you do not speak french, so don't try to understand' is not acceptable. Sure it is. If they believe that the translator is wrong, they can ask a trusted person of their own to review the translation. I have done that several time myself. The result was several time that the ddtp translation were sheer nonsense. I am sorry. So I have used my veto right to uploaded meaningful translation. Trust is not given for free, one need to deserve it. It is silly that people who do not speak a foreign language can have a judgement on what a translation should look like and perform changes in localized files (I am not talking about the Apache description here) without notifying the translator. The translator must notify the maintainer, not the converse. For example removing trailing dot of the short description from the french translation is wrong if the english version has it. The dot must first be removed from the english version and then from the translation. So notify the maintainer and wait until he upload a fixed version. If you have a problem with the original translation, please ask the maintainer before doing the translation. We should work with him and not against him. Sorry I meant s/you/one/g. 'We'? I am glad to learn that you are going to let us benefit from your experience. 'We' as in 'Debian'. But maybe considering ourself as a group would not sustain your writing aggressivity ? As far as my experience is concerned, people allows themselves to translate description of packages they do not understand in english instead of giving up and produce nonsense as translation. This is that I would like the reviewers to focus on, not on typographical details. Cheers, -- Bill. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Imagine a large red swirl here.
Re: Debian MIA check
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 07:42:03PM +0200, Rene Engelhard wrote: Joey Hess wrote: Luis Francisco Gonzalez tcsh tcsh-i18n tcsh-kanji uuh, tcsh is an OpenOffice.org Build-Dependency I wouldn't take it because I don't use it, but we need it... tcsh as a build-dependency? Seems like a bug in openoffice. That should be fixed regardless of whether we keep tcsh. -- - mdz
Re: Debian MIA check
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 11:51:53AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 02:41:49PM +0100, James Troup wrote: reach any of the people listed in [1] and [2] below, please feel free to contact them and get them to reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Is there a mnemonic for that? I.e., does wat stand for something? Where Are They? -- - mdz
Re: The Debian Mentors Project
Hi, Fabio... On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 10:16:38PM +0200, Fabio Massimo Di Nitto wrote: Really nice job but the first side effect is already there: Package: icaclient Thanks for the hint. That was a test package I was uploading to stress test the dupload process on the server. It wasn't really meant to stay there. :) I think upload must be moderated somehow. Let's see. I hope that the users are not misusing our server to upload pornography or warez. In fact we are checking the uploads in regular intervals and will kick those users and their packages out. A completely moderated dupload process will IMHO slow the whole process down. Again... thanks. Christoph -- ~ ~ .signature [Modified] 3 lines --100%--3,41 All
Re: The Debian Mentors Project
Hi, Fabio Massimo Di Nitto wrote: Really nice job but the first side effect is already there: Package: icaclient Version: 6.30-2 Priority: optional Section: net Maintainer: Christoph Haas [EMAIL PROTECTED] Depends: libxaw7 And that looks like it is f*cked. Is this Depends: done manually? I do not thing dpkg-shlibdeps did that. Where is libc6? I think upload must be moderated somehow. Even the uploader himself claim that he is unsure about licence of the product. Jup. That is bad. joke mode=teacher language=germanChristoph: setzen, sechs :)/joke Regards, Rene -- .''`. Rene Engelhard -- Debian GNU/Linux Developer : :' : http://www.debian.org | http://people.debian.org/~rene/ `. `' [EMAIL PROTECTED] | GnuPG-Key ID: 248AEB73 `- Fingerprint: 41FA F208 28D4 7CA5 19BB 7AD9 F859 90B0 248A EB73 pgpPfqUIC1O7Q.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian MIA check
Le Tue, May 13, 2003 at 01:39:46PM -0500, Drew Scott Daniels écrivait: echelon in this context meaning the mailing lists? As described in http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2000/debian-project-21/msg7.html ? I guess so, yes. I don't know of any other echelon in Debian. page). What happened to the qa MIA database? The code's at http://cvs.debian.org/mia/?cvsroot=qa but I can't find anything online. The code is setup on qa.debian.org, just login in that machine and it's in /org/qa.debian.org/mia/ ... and read the README. You can run the mia-history script there : [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/org/qa.debian.org/mia$ ./mia-history take take: 2003-02-07: Orphaned: defoma 2003-04-19: Contact: scigraphica-common 2003-05-09: follow-up Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog -+- http://www.ouaza.com Formation Linux et logiciel libre : http://www.logidee.com
Re: can touch(1) readonly files
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 12:05:07PM -0400, Mike Dresser wrote: Reminds me of a bug in the old Icon systems that the schools used in the early 80's or so. The immutable(+i) flag couldn't be removed, even by the superuser because then you'd be modifying the file, which wasn't allowed cause of the +i. well, on linux, you can of course also stop root from removing the immutable flag, after all that is what the flag is all about. it used to be linked to the security level, nowadays one controls it via capabilities. Greetings Bernd -- (OO) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ( .. ) [EMAIL PROTECTED],linux.de,debian.org} http://home.pages.de/~eckes/ o--o *plush* 2048/93600EFD [EMAIL PROTECTED] +497257930613 BE5-RIPE (OO) When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!
Re: Debian MIA check
On Tue, 13 May 2003, Raphael Hertzog wrote: Le Tue, May 13, 2003 at 01:39:46PM -0500, Drew Scott Daniels écrivait: page). What happened to the qa MIA database? The code's at http://cvs.debian.org/mia/?cvsroot=qa but I can't find anything online. The code is setup on qa.debian.org, just login in that machine and it's in /org/qa.debian.org/mia/ ... and read the README. You can run the mia-history script there : [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/org/qa.debian.org/mia$ ./mia-history take take: 2003-02-07: Orphaned: defoma 2003-04-19: Contact: scigraphica-common 2003-05-09: follow-up Yet another Debian developer only perk... btw, I'm not a Debian developer (yet). Thanks for the info though. Drew Daniels
Re: Debian MIA check
Hi Joey, On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 12:11:16 -0400, Joey Hess wrote: Pavel Tcholakov hylafax-client hylafax-doc hylafax-server Pavel responded a few days ago here to the hylafax thread (as kay [EMAIL PROTECTED]) and to a private mail I sent him last tuesday containing fixes for his package. He told me he's busy reviewing them. Jürgen -- Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens. -- Jimi Hendrix pgpeT3riWdkEE.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: The Debian Mentors Project
Hi, On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 10:16:38PM +0200, Fabio Massimo Di Nitto wrote: I think upload must be moderated somehow. Even the uploader himself claim that he is unsure about licence of the product. Well, if the packages can only be downloaded by registered DDs, then the problem's solved I'd say? After all, if I understand correctly, the service is more intended for use by sponsors who would upload them into unstable after checking, than directly for users. Cheers, Emile. -- E-Advies - Emile van Bergen [EMAIL PROTECTED] tel. +31 (0)70 3906153 http://www.e-advies.nl pgpOkzrwU5GwX.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OO build-depends on tcsh (Was: Debian MIA check)
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 04:59:25PM -0400, Matt Zimmerman wrote: On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 07:42:03PM +0200, Rene Engelhard wrote: uuh, tcsh is an OpenOffice.org Build-Dependency I wouldn't take it because I don't use it, but we need it... tcsh as a build-dependency? Seems like a bug in openoffice. That should be fixed regardless of whether we keep tcsh. ISTR that lots of the upstream build scripts need tcsh. The issue has come up once or twice in the past. http://lists.debian.org/debian-openoffice/2002/debian-openoffice-200205/msg00226.html Cheers, Nick -- x--x | The greatest woes of the programmer? | | Serotonine deficiency, caffeine deprivation and the | | unbearable roaring of the birds. | |--| | Nicolas Kratz [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] | x--x pgpwK6mUYCXKc.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: can touch(1) readonly files
On Wed, 14 May 2003 04:21, Branden Robinson wrote: On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 11:10:26PM +1000, Russell Coker wrote: Bernd is correct. It's a kernel issue. SE Linux allows you [...] SE Linux allows control [...] Russell, you are such a pimp. ;-) I was provoked. ;) Anyway are you going to be at the Debian mini-conference before LCA? I'll give a talk at the main conference about SE Linux, and maybe a talk at the mini-conf too. Oops, I did it again. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page
Re: Do not touch l10n files (was Re: DDTP issue)
First of all, it seems to me that the French translation is clearly correctly formatted, for French. Nice to learn about how list layout works in French. However -- Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote: The official maintainer is in _no_ way responsible for the _translated_ description of a package. Please, let translation teams do their work without interfeering. When DDTP will be integrate 100% in the system who will receive bugs on descriptions? you or the dd? The translation team. Any other scheme is flawed and tends to problems (people doing the same work will collide, it has happened in the past with translations and will happen in the future if the maintainer, and not the translation teams ,is still the one merging changes) Conversly, I think that as long as the translation teams keep on working off in their own little corner with no control given to the package maintainer, the kind of dispute illistrated by this thread will keep happening, and will become more and more common. This is exactly why I have and continue to urge the people behind the DDTP to let the maintainers of packages have oversight over their translations. The DDTP needs to engage the maintainers of packages, provide them tools to work with the translations, and stop trying to invent translation distribution systems that are independant from how the rest of debian works. And your concerns about collisions are really nicely addressed already by any of the several fine revision control systems in Debian, amoung other methods. -- see shy jo pgpqPUzXtz3LW.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian MIA check
On Wed, 14 May 2003 06:59, Matt Zimmerman wrote: tcsh as a build-dependency? Seems like a bug in openoffice. That should be fixed regardless of whether we keep tcsh. Why is it a bug for the compilation of a program to depend on one of the many script interpreters in Debian? If the upstream authors want to write shell code that can only be interpreted by tcsh in their build scripts then it shouldn't be a bug in the Debian package as long as the tcsh package remains in Debian IMHO. -- http://www.coker.com.au/selinux/ My NSA Security Enhanced Linux packages http://www.coker.com.au/bonnie++/ Bonnie++ hard drive benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/postal/Postal SMTP/POP benchmark http://www.coker.com.au/~russell/ My home page
Re: Debian MIA check
On Tue, 13 May 2003 16:59:25 -0400 MZ == Matt Zimmerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MZ MZ On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 07:42:03PM +0200, Rene Engelhard wrote: Joey Hess wrote: Luis Francisco Gonzalez tcsh tcsh-i18n tcsh-kanji uuh, tcsh is an OpenOffice.org Build-Dependency I wouldn't take it because I don't use it, but we need it... MZ MZ tcsh as a build-dependency? Seems like a bug in openoffice. That should be MZ fixed regardless of whether we keep tcsh. Do you mean, that it should be Build-Depends: c-shell or that all shell-like scripting should be Bourn-compatible? Any of these assumptions can be considered seriously, frankly speaking. -- Alexander Kotelnikov Saint-Petersburg, Russia
Re: Debian MIA check
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 04:21:14PM -0500, Drew Scott Daniels wrote: On Tue, 13 May 2003, Raphael Hertzog wrote: Le Tue, May 13, 2003 at 01:39:46PM -0500, Drew Scott Daniels écrivait: page). What happened to the qa MIA database? The code's at http://cvs.debian.org/mia/?cvsroot=qa but I can't find anything online. The code is setup on qa.debian.org, just login in that machine and it's in /org/qa.debian.org/mia/ ... and read the README. You can run the mia-history script there : [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/org/qa.debian.org/mia$ ./mia-history take take: 2003-02-07: Orphaned: defoma 2003-04-19: Contact: scigraphica-common 2003-05-09: follow-up Yet another Debian developer only perk... btw, I'm not a Debian developer (yet). Thanks for the info though. Yes, and there are good reasons for not wanting the general public to have access to our database which tracks which developers are inactive -- not to mention that some of the indicators of activity include posts to DD-only mailing lists. Regards, -- Steve Langasek postmodern programmer pgp5odHyj4EXd.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OO build-depends on tcsh (Was: Debian MIA check)
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 11:26:42PM +0200, Nicolas Kratz wrote: On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 04:59:25PM -0400, Matt Zimmerman wrote: tcsh as a build-dependency? Seems like a bug in openoffice. That should be fixed regardless of whether we keep tcsh. ISTR that lots of the upstream build scripts need tcsh. The issue has come up once or twice in the past. http://lists.debian.org/debian-openoffice/2002/debian-openoffice-200205/msg00226.html I agree with Emmanuel le Chevoir in that thread when he said k! csh is broken for purposes of writing scripts, and tcsh is just csh with enhancements for interactive use, as far as I recall. I don't have the disk space to unpack openoffice.org, and neither does auric, so I can't look right now. The one script I was able to see was about 60 lines and was mostly echo commands with one setenv, and could be trivially changed to work with any shell. -- - mdz
Re: Debian MIA check
On Wed, May 14, 2003 at 07:40:01AM +1000, Russell Coker wrote: On Wed, 14 May 2003 06:59, Matt Zimmerman wrote: tcsh as a build-dependency? Seems like a bug in openoffice. That should be fixed regardless of whether we keep tcsh. Why is it a bug for the compilation of a program to depend on one of the many script interpreters in Debian? If the upstream authors want to write shell code that can only be interpreted by tcsh in their build scripts then it shouldn't be a bug in the Debian package as long as the tcsh package remains in Debian IMHO. Not everything that upstream authors do is sensible. As I'm sure you know, upstreams do a lot of things which are clearly not. It doesn't imply any malice on their part, or that of Debian, to say that it is not the way it should be done. -- - mdz
Re: Do not touch l10n files (was Re: DDTP issue)
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 10:36:53PM +0200, Bill Allombert wrote: On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 10:04:43PM +0200, Denis Barbier wrote: On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 05:56:08PM +0200, Bill Allombert wrote: Do we have such standard document for the original english description ? No, and there is no dedicated team to review them. debian-l10n-english There have been no email send to this list from November 2002 to February 2003. Can we call that a team ? Why not? Plenty of skilled English speakers frequent that list. Maybe the problem is that some Debian developers have an inflated notion of their facility with English.[1] [1] Before someone makes a predictable remark, this can be true of native speakers as well. -- G. Branden Robinson| What influenced me to atheism was Debian GNU/Linux | reading the Bible cover to cover. [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Twice. http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | -- J. Michael Straczynski pgp4Ti4a1nnro.pgp Description: PGP signature
About unstable
i added deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free to sources.list however, after i got updated, i got such an error. Is it because of my utility's version or a general problem? E: Dynamic MMap ran out of room E: Error occured while processing python2.2-imaging-tk (NewVersion1) E: Problem with MergeList /var/lib/apt/lists/http.us.debian.org_debian_dists_unstable_main_binary-i386_Packages E: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened. pgph3D2cU9wtQ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Accepted cdrtoaster 1.12-2 (all source)
reopen 181862 reopen 188902 reopen 125614 reopen 190924 reopen 117828 thanks On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 05:47:10PM -0400, Andrea Fanfani wrote: [...] Source: cdrtoaster [...] Version: 1.12-2 [...] Changes: cdrtoaster (1.12-2) unstable; urgency=low . * New upload. No upstream release. * Closed bug #181862. * Closed bug #188902. * Closed bug #125614. * Closed bug #190924. * Closed bug #117828. [...] BZZZT. WRONG. Close the bugs right or don't close them at all. -- G. Branden Robinson| It's not a matter of alienating Debian GNU/Linux | authors. They have every right to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | license their software however we http://people.debian.org/~branden/ | like. -- Craig Sanders pgpjUMlyEajkJ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian MIA check
James Troup said: snip [2] No reply - Alexander Shinn [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip I have another email address for Alex, and have forwarded your email to him. Unfortunately, he's not in the country right now, so quicker contact is difficult. :( -- -- | Stephen Gran | If Bill Gates is the Devil then Linus | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Torvalds must be the Messiah. -- | | http://www.lobefin.net/~steve | Unknown source | -- pgp3wznuNJIQB.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Do not touch l10n files (was Re: DDTP issue)
Hi, On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 05:56:08PM +0200, Bill Allombert wrote: Bonjour, I am french and I don't regard the 'Imprimerie Nationale' rules as binding. We are still a free country. Do we have such standard document for the original english description ? No, and there is no dedicated team to review them. I think we should focus on provided accurate description not typographically correct one. Keeping things simple so that Debian maintainers can understand what is coming along with the translation is important, because they have the final responsibility of the package. Telling them 'you do not speak french, so don't try to understand' is not acceptable. I do speak french and I have often trouble to understand myself. If you have a problem with the original translation, please ask the maintainer before doing the translation. We should work with him and not against him. You're probably right, those useless l10n teams are annoying. Anyway, translating is easy: let's ask google to translate our texts for us. It does not always very high quality results, but who cares if the typography and the grammar are not perfect? Anyone is able to understand, isn't it? Amicalement, For those who don't understand french, that means Friendly, and I think you're not very friendly with Denis... Regards, Nicolas
Re: About unstable
On Wed, May 14, 2003 at 01:25:22AM +0300, Halil Demirezen wrote: i added deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free to sources.list however, after i got updated, i got such an error. Is it because of my utility's version or a general problem? E: Dynamic MMap ran out of room E: Error occured while processing python2.2-imaging-tk (NewVersion1) E: Problem with MergeList /var/lib/apt/lists/http.us.debian.org_debian_dists_unstable_main_binary-i386_Packages E: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened. apt 0.5.5 has problems. And you should increase your cache size or delete other sources from sources.list. -- x--x | And AC said: Let there be light! | |And there was light...| | (Asimov, 1956) | |--| | Nicolas Kratz [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] | x--x pgpC6IdFxa1BO.pgp Description: PGP signature
Returning from vacation. (MIA?)
Folks, Things have finally settled down, and I once again have some spare time to devote to Debian after a 2-year absence The new sysadmin job is going well. The new child is growing up. The new house is now home. The Everquest Addiction(tm) has faded. Etc. :^) For the time being, I am getting back up to speed on the new policy changes and project directions. Once I get comfortable again with the Project, and all the new stuff that has happened, I will pick up some work from the QA team, and find my niche again. At least, I will if there is still room for me here. :^) And please don't be offended by the .sig. Procmail is a godsend, dealing with anywhere between 25 to 100 spams a day on three of my email addresses. I will see anything on debian-devel and on debian-private, but if anyone sends me private mail, please follow the directions below Cheers! ___ / Clay Crouch | [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ +--++ | PGP 94781680: 020E 793B 455D 9737 5956 1A3B 0AE8 807A 9478 1680 | | GPG 7D2AD631: 2319 2356 FEDF 4631 63F3 762A E443 1C2A 7D2A D631 | +---+ | I loathe spam. Therefore, I have procmail set up to send mail to | | /dev/null by default, unless your address matches a rule. To send | | me mail, put PASSTHRU-UNFILTERED in the subject line to dodge | | the one-way trip to the bit-bucket. I will add your address to my | | filter, so you only have to do this once per address. :^) | \___/ pgpZjq8iipih4.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: The Debian Mentors Project
On Mon, May 12, 2003 at 11:40:04PM -0400, Joe Nahmias wrote: If I may make a suggestion, a user should only be able to upload a package that either: a) doesn't appear in the repository - -or- b) already has the uploader as maintainer - -or- c) has a RFA/O bug filed in WNPP What I would suggest is similar. If the package has never been uploaded to the mentors repository, require that it be moderated/approved by a DD. After that, a package in the mentor system can only be superceded by the packages maintainer (i.e., the non-DD who is responaible for the package) or a DD. What, you say people shouldn't trust the binaries for any purpose? If so, why have them there in the first place? Just let it be a place where the apt deb-src repository can be made available - Ted
Coming back from vacation. (MIA?)
Folks, Things have finally settled down, and I once again have some spare time to devote to Debian after a 2-year absence The new sysadmin job is going well. The new child is growing up. The new house is now home. The Everquest Addiction(tm) has faded. Etc. :^) For the time being, I am getting back up to speed on the new policy changes and project directions. Once I get comfortable again with the Project, and all the new stuff that has happened, I will pick up some work from the QA team, and find my niche again. At least, I will if there is still room for me here. :^) And please don't be offended by the .sig. Procmail is a godsend, dealing with anywhere between 25 to 100 spams a day on three of my email addresses. I will see anything on debian-devel and on debian-private, but if anyone sends me private mail, please follow the directions below Cheers! ___ / Clay Crouch | [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ +--++ | PGP 94781680: 020E 793B 455D 9737 5956 1A3B 0AE8 807A 9478 1680 | | GPG 7D2AD631: 2319 2356 FEDF 4631 63F3 762A E443 1C2A 7D2A D631 | +---+ | I loathe spam. Therefore, I have procmail set up to send mail to | | /dev/null by default, unless your address matches a rule. To send | | me mail, put PASSTHRU-UNFILTERED in the subject line to dodge | | the one-way trip to the bit-bucket. I will add your address to my | | filter, so you only have to do this once per address. :^) | \___/
Re: Debian MIA check
Why is it a bug for the compilation of a program to depend on one of the many script interpreters in Debian? If the upstream authors want to write shell code that can only be interpreted by tcsh in their build scripts then it shouldn't be a bug in the Debian package as long as the tcsh package remains in Debian IMHO. csh and tcsh should be avoided as scripting languages. See Csh Programming Considered Harmful, one of the comp.unix.* FAQs, which can be found at http:// language.perl.com/versus/csh.whynot.[43] If an upstream package comes with csh scripts then you must make sure that they start with #!/bin/csh and make your package depend on the c-shell virtual package. debian-policy 11.4 maybe that is because of being harmful as it is said in debian-policy? pgp2DLOpTIiKj.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Kaffe marked remove (was Release-critical Bugreport for May 9, 2003)
On Fri, 2003-05-09 at 19:23, Adam Heath wrote: This is a bug that exists in *stable*, and does *not* exist in unstable(upstream requires the user to explicitly set a file to use, and doesn't pick one itself). It was only filed this week. The other RC bug has been fixed. Please mark kaffe as not being removed. It's stupid to remove it because of one bug that's less than a week old. Agreed! I'm in the process of closing the bug on 1.0.5 but there is some question as to how the problem should be solved. I can follow the behavior of the Kaffe 1.0.7 scripts or use mktemp/mkstemp like gcc. For the sake of expediency I will probably use the 1.0.7 approach of making the user specify the tempfile, or create a directory. In any case, please chill out. The exploit is only valid when Kaffe is in debug mode and doesn't really present a tangible threat to a normally operating Debian box (with, like, Freenet or something running). -- _ Ean Schuessler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brainfood, Inc. http://www.brainfood.com
Re: Returning from vacation. (MIA?)
On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 07:05:38PM -0500, Clay Crouch wrote: And please don't be offended by the .sig. That .sig is problematic beyond just its content; it is 12 lines long and adds almost 1kb to each of your messages (probably longer than the contents of many messages). Refer to RFC 1855 or any other netiquette document for further information. Procmail is a godsend, dealing with anywhere between 25 to 100 spams a day on three of my email addresses. I will see anything on debian-devel and on debian-private, but if anyone sends me private mail, please follow the directions below This approach tends to cause a lot of headaches for people who legitimately want to contact you; I do not recommend it. Try bogofilter, spamassassin and the like instead. I receive over 100 spam emails per day, and less than 5% make it past bogofilter, with zero false positives so far. -- - mdz
