Re: Thoughts about the bug tracking system

[Ben Finney]

Bastian Venthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> > My mail client is a script, ~/bin/mail-handler; which, I
> >  think, is not permissible in reportbug-ng.  In other words, the
> >  user can not configure the reporter; they can ask the author to
> >  add in some standard mail clients; but not the non-standard ones.
> 
> It shouldn't be a huge problem to provide the option you want, but
> since it is a rather exotic (I assume most people just use a mail
> client), it isn't currently of high priority for me.

Even those who use a popular mail client will often want to alter the
exact command line used to invoke that program, especially for
specific purposes like reporting a bug.

> I think realistically we're talking about roughly a dozen different
> mail clients (surely not thousands) which should cover 99% of all
> users needs. I don't see a problem here.

Many of which have dozens of options, resulting in limitless
command-line configurations.

Allowing the users to select a pre-defined command line from a limited
set of specific, popular MUAs is great. Not allowing them to configure
that command line for their specific purpose is the limitation being
discussed.

-- 
 \  "Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a |
  `\   feature."  -- Rich Kulawiec |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney


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Re: Thoughts about the bug tracking system

[Adeodato Simó]

* Adeodato Simó [Mon, 23 Jul 2007 00:05:59 +0200]:

> xdg-email does not deal with clients directly; it just constructs a
> mailto: URL from its arguments and options (or a mailto: url can be
> given directly if that's easier for the caller), and opens it with the
> appropriate command depending on the desktop environment: kmailservice
> for KDE, gnome-open and exo-open for GNOME and Xfce, respectively. If
> the user is not running any of these desktop environments, it opens the
> mailto: url in the sensible-browser, in hopes that it'll be configured
> correctly to handle mailto: links.

Forgot to add between these paragraphs:

  This means that any mail client that can be configured in the KDE,
  GNOME or Xfce control centers or equivalent, will be supported. And
  that will probably be all of them, at least for KDE.

> All of that can be overriden by an user script, xdg-email-hook.sh. If
> present, it'll be called directly with a mailto: URL. That virtually
> gives Rng support for any mail client and user case scenario, even
> Manoj's. ;-)

All in all, I think it'd be a very good default value.

Cheers,

-- 
Adeodato Simó dato at net.com.org.es
Debian Developer  adeodato at debian.org
 
He who has not a good memory should never take upon himself the trade of lying.
-- Michel de Montaigne


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Re: Thoughts about the bug tracking system

[Adeodato Simó]

* Bastian Venthur [Sun, 22 Jul 2007 23:50:49 +0200]:

> I'll have to investigate which mail clients xdg-email supports and
> whether it supports at least the to-, subject- and body for all of them.
> If this is the case, I should make it the default and leave the other
> ones as an option.

xdg-email does not deal with clients directly; it just constructs a
mailto: URL from its arguments and options (or a mailto: url can be
given directly if that's easier for the caller), and opens it with the
appropriate command depending on the desktop environment: kmailservice
for KDE, gnome-open and exo-open for GNOME and Xfce, respectively. If
the user is not running any of these desktop environments, it opens the
mailto: url in the sensible-browser, in hopes that it'll be configured
correctly to handle mailto: links.

All of that can be overriden by an user script, xdg-email-hook.sh. If
present, it'll be called directly with a mailto: URL. That virtually
gives Rng support for any mail client and user case scenario, even
Manoj's. ;-)

-- 
Adeodato Simó dato at net.com.org.es
Debian Developer  adeodato at debian.org
 
If there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in
despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the
implacable grandeur of this life.
-- Albert Camus


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Re: Thoughts about the bug tracking system

[Bastian Venthur]

Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 23:07:08 +0200, Adeodato Simó <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 
>> This reminds me: do you know about /usr/bin/xdg-email (from package
>> xdg-utils)? I don't know if reportbug must get a MUA configured before
>> being able to send reports; if so, xdg-email would be a very good
>> default value. (It checks the configuration settings of the running
>> desktop environment, and launches the configured MUA.)
> 
> Only if /usr/bin/xdg-email  is available; I am not sure that one
>  should make the bug reporting tool depend on something as heavy weight
>  as xdg-utils (this is not something thatis installed on any of my
>  machines.

Too late, rng already depends on it :) But in my opinion it's not really
heavy weight: It's Installed-Size is 260, it consists of just a few
scripts and depends on no other packages.

> manoj 'all the world is not gnome' srivastava


Cheers,

Bastian

-- 
Bastian Venthur  http://venthur.de
Debian Developer venthur at debian org


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Re: Thoughts about the bug tracking system

[Adeodato Simó]

* Manoj Srivastava [Sun, 22 Jul 2007 16:32:23 -0400]:

>  something as heavy weight as xdg-utils

The number of Depends of xdg-utils is zero, Installed-Size 260.

-- 
Adeodato Simó dato at net.com.org.es
Debian Developer  adeodato at debian.org
 
The easy way is the wrong way, and the hard way is the stupid way. Pick one.


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Re: Thoughts about the bug tracking system

[Bastian Venthur]

Adeodato Simó wrote:
> * Bastian Venthur [Sun, 22 Jul 2007 10:34:06 +0200]:
> 
>> That's not true. As I already told you, all you have to do is to send me
>> a valid call of your mail client where the composer opens with to-,
>> subject- and body prefilled.
> 
> This reminds me: do you know about /usr/bin/xdg-email (from package
> xdg-utils)? I don't know if reportbug must get a MUA configured before
> being able to send reports; if so, xdg-email would be a very good
> default value. (It checks the configuration settings of the running
> desktop environment, and launches the configured MUA.)

I've already thought about using it, especially since rng already uses
xdg-open to call the user's preferred browser when clicking a link in
the bug report pane (hint: icedove, you could have this feature too!).

I'll have to investigate which mail clients xdg-email supports and
whether it supports at least the to-, subject- and body for all of them.
If this is the case, I should make it the default and leave the other
ones as an option.


Cheers,

Bastian

-- 
Bastian Venthur  http://venthur.de
Debian Developer venthur at debian org


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Re: Thoughts about the bug tracking system

[Bastian Venthur]

Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> My mail client is a script, ~/bin/mail-handler; which, I think,
>  is not permissible  in reportbug-ng.  In other words, the user can not
>  configure the reporter; they can ask the author to add in some standard
>  mail clients; but not the non-standard ones.

It shouldn't be a huge problem to provide the option you want, but since
it is a rather exotic (I assume most people just use a mail client), it
isn't currently of high priority for me.

>> That's not true. As I already told you, all you have to do is to send
>> me a valid call of your mail client where the composer opens with to-,
>> subject- and body prefilled.
> 
> But this is not configuration; and the lack of configurability
>  is what I complained about.  I can't tell reportbug-ng about my one off
>  simple little script that does some stuff and sends mail out.
> 
> What you are talking about is your willingness to add in any of
>  thousands of mail clients that users might request (which, BTW, might
>  not scale all that well if reportbug-ng gets popular and all kinds of
>  people start sending in strange requests, and then later, other people
>  send in bug reports about how the behaviour of all the gazillion mail
>  clients has changed subtly and broken the bug reporting software).

I think realistically we're talking about roughly a dozen different mail
clients (surely not thousands) which should cover 99% of all users
needs. I don't see a problem here.

>> Most mail clients I know support either
>>   foo-mua mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]&body=foobody
>> or
>>   foo-mua -to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -subject foosubject -body foobody
> 
>> Send me the name of your mail client you're missing and a working call
>> and I'll include it.
> 
> ~/bin/mail-handler --subject 'foosubject' --to 'tosomeone' < body
> 
> I can also handle the old BSD 4.4 Lite mail programs command
>  line syntax. What if the location changes? Or I change the syntax of my
>  mailing script (to, say, do some security related stuff [like passing
>  the mail through a guard program t redact sensitive material])?

I might add a pseudo mail client "command line" where you can use three
variables (to, subject and body) to construct you own call, but again
this hasn't currently a high priority for me although I'm sure I will
implement it some day.


Cheers,

Bastian

-- 
Bastian Venthur  http://venthur.de
Debian Developer venthur at debian org


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Re: Thoughts about the bug tracking system

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 23:07:08 +0200, Adeodato Simó <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> * Bastian Venthur [Sun, 22 Jul 2007 10:34:06 +0200]:
>> That's not true. As I already told you, all you have to do is to send
>> me a valid call of your mail client where the composer opens with
>> to-, subject- and body prefilled.

> This reminds me: do you know about /usr/bin/xdg-email (from package
> xdg-utils)? I don't know if reportbug must get a MUA configured before
> being able to send reports; if so, xdg-email would be a very good
> default value. (It checks the configuration settings of the running
> desktop environment, and launches the configured MUA.)

Only if /usr/bin/xdg-email  is available; I am not sure that one
 should make the bug reporting tool depend on something as heavy weight
 as xdg-utils (this is not something thatis installed on any of my
 machines.

manoj 'all the world is not gnome' srivastava
-- 
A billion here, a billion there -- pretty soon it adds up to real
money. Sen. Everett Dirksen, on the U.S. defense budget
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C


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Re: Thoughts about the bug tracking system

[Michael Banck]

On Sat, Jul 21, 2007 at 04:42:48PM +0200, Bastian Venthur wrote:
> While you're at it, can you please also add reportbug-ng to the list of
> tools helping the user to provide bug reports?

I'd rather suggest to add a paragraph discouraging users from using rng
at this point, until it meets the developer's expectations, sorry.


Michael


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Re: Thoughts about the bug tracking system

[Manoj Srivastava]

On Sun, 22 Jul 2007 10:34:06 +0200, Bastian Venthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 

> Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 10:50:15 +0200, Bastian Venthur
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>>> Or, if you prefer a GUI application with out of the box support for
>>> most mail clients, try reportbug-ng.
>> 
>> My major problem with reportbug-ng was that is is very hard to
>> configure -- at least, I could not get it to use my preferred MUA; it
>> has a limited selection of what it considers acceptable user agents,

> Why do you think I consider some mail clients "unacceptable"? In fact
> I try to include as much mail clients as possible. I just need to know
> them.

My mail client is a script, ~/bin/mail-handler; which, I think,
 is not permissible  in reportbug-ng.  In other words, the user can not
 configure the reporter; they can ask the author to add in some standard
 mail clients; but not the non-standard ones.

>> and if you are not using it, then you are out of luck.

> That's not true. As I already told you, all you have to do is to send
> me a valid call of your mail client where the composer opens with to-,
> subject- and body prefilled.

But this is not configuration; and the lack of configurability
 is what I complained about.  I can't tell reportbug-ng about my one off
 simple little script that does some stuff and sends mail out.

What you are talking about is your willingness to add in any of
 thousands of mail clients that users might request (which, BTW, might
 not scale all that well if reportbug-ng gets popular and all kinds of
 people start sending in strange requests, and then later, other people
 send in bug reports about how the behaviour of all the gazillion mail
 clients has changed subtly and broken the bug reporting software).

> Most mail clients I know support either
>   foo-mua mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]&body=foobody
> or
>   foo-mua -to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -subject foosubject -body foobody

> Send me the name of your mail client you're missing and a working call
> and I'll include it.

~/bin/mail-handler --subject 'foosubject' --to 'tosomeone' < body

I can also handle the old BSD 4.4 Lite mail programs command
 line syntax. What if the location changes? Or I change the syntax of my
 mailing script (to, say, do some security related stuff [like passing
 the mail through a guard program t redact sensitive material])?

manoj
-- 
"Those who believe in astrology are living in houses with foundations of
Silly Putty."- Dennis Rawlins, astronomer
Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
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Re: Thoughts about the bug tracking system

[Adeodato Simó]

* Bastian Venthur [Sun, 22 Jul 2007 10:34:06 +0200]:

> That's not true. As I already told you, all you have to do is to send me
> a valid call of your mail client where the composer opens with to-,
> subject- and body prefilled.

This reminds me: do you know about /usr/bin/xdg-email (from package
xdg-utils)? I don't know if reportbug must get a MUA configured before
being able to send reports; if so, xdg-email would be a very good
default value. (It checks the configuration settings of the running
desktop environment, and launches the configured MUA.)

Cheers,

-- 
Adeodato Simó dato at net.com.org.es
Debian Developer  adeodato at debian.org
 
Everything you read in newspapers is absolutely true, except for that
rare story of which you happen to have first-hand knowledge.
-- Erwin Knoll


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Re: List of (un)sponsored packages on Mentors (approximate)

[Ondrej Certik]

I find it easy enough to do:

$ sudo apt-get update
$ apt-src -bi install $package

apt-src will then "install" the source of the package into the current
working directory, then "b"uild it, and then "i"nstall the resulting
binaries.



Thanks for the tip. This is actually very comfortable and works on all
architectures. I'll be using it from now on.

Could this tip please be put into [1] or [2]?

Ondrej

[1] http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/maintainer-intro
[2] http://mentors.debian.net/cgi-bin/qanda


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Re: List of (un)sponsored packages on Mentors (approximate)

[Asheesh Laroia]

On Sun, 22 Jul 2007, Ondrej Certik wrote:

The actual discussion came up when we talked about whether the current 
GR on non-DDs with upload permissions is good or bad for Debian. And we 
agreed that Debian lacks a lot of packages just because the poor 
package maintainer (tm) didn't find a sponsor in time.


Yes, that is the most difficult part. I think it would also help, if 
there was some official repository for unnoficial packages, so that I 
(as non-DD) could just upload my package to mentors (which I can now) 
and then just add the "deb" line (not just "deb-src") into sources.list 
and could easily use all packages from mentors (at least on i386). 
Because now everyone has it's own private repository, which I find very 
unfortunate.


I find it easy enough to do:

$ sudo apt-get update
$ apt-src -bi install $package

apt-src will then "install" the source of the package into the current 
working directory, then "b"uild it, and then "i"nstall the resulting 
binaries.


This works just fine for me with the deb-src mentors line.

-- Asheesh.

--
If you steal from one author it's plagiarism; if you steal from
many it's research.
-- Wilson Mizner


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Re: List of (un)sponsored packages on Mentors (approximate)

[Daniel Leidert]

Am Sonntag, den 22.07.2007, 21:01 +0200 schrieb Ondrej Certik:

[..]
> I think it would also help, if
> there was some official repository for unnoficial packages, so that I
> (as non-DD) could just upload my package to mentors (which I can now)
> and then just add the "deb" line (not just "deb-src") into
> sources.list and could easily use all packages from mentors (at least
> on i386). Because now everyone has it's own private repository, which
> I find very unfortunate.

mentors.d.o was a binary archive some time ago. You can check the
archives for the reasons, why they stopped this service (and why they
are now only providing the sources - mainly because of the bandwith
IIRC). Every new effort for such a service will probably have the same
"issues".

Regards, Daniel


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Re: List of (un)sponsored packages on Mentors (approximate)

[Ondrej Certik]

The actual discussion came up when we talked about whether the current
GR on non-DDs with upload permissions is good or bad for Debian. And we
agreed that Debian lacks a lot of packages just because the poor package
maintainer (tm) didn't find a sponsor in time.


Yes, that is the most difficult part. I think it would also help, if
there was some official repository for unnoficial packages, so that I
(as non-DD) could just upload my package to mentors (which I can now)
and then just add the "deb" line (not just "deb-src") into
sources.list and could easily use all packages from mentors (at least
on i386). Because now everyone has it's own private repository, which
I find very unfortunate.

Ondrej


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Re: List of (un)sponsored packages on Mentors (approximate)

[Kumar Appaiah]

On Sun, Jul 22, 2007 at 07:37:13PM +0200, Nico Golde wrote:
> [...] 
> Thanks for your work! But basically you do work that already 
> had been done by mentors.debian.net. Ok not everyone is 
> using this service but it would be good if they would.

Ah, you get beaten in the race quite often! ;-)

> I also see a problem in missing descriptions for the RFS. 
> Sure it would be not very efficient to download the message 
> from the archive and parse them but browsing a huge list of 
> non-descriptive names is somehow bad.

You are probably right. But I don't think this is meant to be
incorporated into the mentors portal as such. It was merely to provide
an indication of which packages did get sponsored at least once, and
which didn't. Also, I shared the news since people on #debian-mentors
also thought it'd be good to provide this info to debian-devel.

Thanks!

Kumar
-- 
Kumar Appaiah,
462, Jamuna Hostel,
Indian Institute of Technology Madras,
Chennai - 600 036


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Re: List of (un)sponsored packages on Mentors (approximate)

[Christoph Haas]

On Sun, Jul 22, 2007 at 07:37:13PM +0200, Nico Golde wrote:
> Hi,
> * Kumar Appaiah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-07-22 19:26]:
> > (Cross posted to debian-devel, debian-mentors)
> > Dear Debian developers,
> > 
> > I have written a few crude and rudimentary scripts to find an
> > approximate list of packages which have been or have _not_ been
> > sponsored despite an RFS to debian-mentors.
> > 
> > The program generates bad output if the RFS mailer has not given the
> > package name right after the first "RFS" in the subject, that too,
> > with a space etc., but it's a start, and gives you the idea.
> > 
> > Also, the list is a HTML page, with every package having a link. The
> > link points to the RFS message in the Debian Mentors archive.
> [...] 
> Thanks for your work! But basically you do work that already 
> had been done by mentors.debian.net. Ok not everyone is 
> using this service but it would be good if they would.

Kumar and I talked on IRC and I wondered how many of the RFS'd packages
get actually uploaded. mentors.debian.net recognizes when an uploaded
package gets sponsored but so far I was too lazy to implement proper
statistics at that point. Even then it would only measure packages that
used mentors.debian.net as an intermediate repository.

The actual discussion came up when we talked about whether the current
GR on non-DDs with upload permissions is good or bad for Debian. And we
agreed that Debian lacks a lot of packages just because the poor package
maintainer (tm) didn't find a sponsor in time.

Cheers
 Christoph


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Re: List of (un)sponsored packages on Mentors (approximate)

[Nico Golde]

Hi,
* Kumar Appaiah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-07-22 19:26]:
> (Cross posted to debian-devel, debian-mentors)
> Dear Debian developers,
> 
> I have written a few crude and rudimentary scripts to find an
> approximate list of packages which have been or have _not_ been
> sponsored despite an RFS to debian-mentors.
> 
> The program generates bad output if the RFS mailer has not given the
> package name right after the first "RFS" in the subject, that too,
> with a space etc., but it's a start, and gives you the idea.
> 
> Also, the list is a HTML page, with every package having a link. The
> link points to the RFS message in the Debian Mentors archive.
[...] 
Thanks for your work! But basically you do work that already 
had been done by mentors.debian.net. Ok not everyone is 
using this service but it would be good if they would.

I also see a problem in missing descriptions for the RFS. 
Sure it would be not very efficient to download the message 
from the archive and parse them but browsing a huge list of 
non-descriptive names is somehow bad.

Kind regards
Nico
-- 
Nico Golde - http://ngolde.de - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - GPG: 0x73647CFF
For security reasons, all text in this mail is double-rot13 encrypted.
http://people.debian.org/~nion/sponsoring-checklist.html


pgp7qF3aJOiH2.pgp
Description: PGP signature

List of (un)sponsored packages on Mentors (approximate)

[Kumar Appaiah]

(Cross posted to debian-devel, debian-mentors)
Dear Debian developers,

I have written a few crude and rudimentary scripts to find an
approximate list of packages which have been or have _not_ been
sponsored despite an RFS to debian-mentors.

The program generates bad output if the RFS mailer has not given the
package name right after the first "RFS" in the subject, that too,
with a space etc., but it's a start, and gives you the idea.

Also, the list is a HTML page, with every package having a link. The
link points to the RFS message in the Debian Mentors archive.

See it at:
http://www.ee.iitm.ac.in/~ee03b091/Mentors/output.html

The scripts I wrote for this are at:
http://www.ee.iitm.ac.in/~ee03b091/Mentors/mentors-sponscheck.tar.bz2

The README in the tarball explains my methodology and the problems in
it.

The Python + BeautifulSoup program is inefficient and inelegant. But I
have spent quite some time in getting it this far. So, if someone
wants to improve it, please do so; I'd be happy.

Many thanks to Gurkan Sengun, Christoph Haasand Sune Vuorela to
inspire me to write this. Hope it's useful.

Thanks!

Kumar
-- 
Kumar Appaiah,
462, Jamuna Hostel,
Indian Institute of Technology Madras,
Chennai - 600 036


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Re: adding desktop files to misc packages

[Don Armstrong]

On Fri, 20 Jul 2007, Michelle Konzack wrote:
> The last sentence makes no sense, because WM's do not depend on the
> "Menu System". They only Recommends or Suggests "menu". So you can
> not drop anything.

I'm talking about droping the 'Debian menu' here, not droping
dependencices on 'the menu system'.


Don Armstrong

-- 
I leave the show floor, but not before a pack of caffeinated Jolt gum
is thrust at me by a hyperactive girl screaming, "Chew more! Do more!"
The American will to consume more and produce more personified in a
stick of gum. I grab it.
 -- Chad Dickerson

http://www.donarmstrong.com  http://rzlab.ucr.edu


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Re: adding desktop files to misc packages

[Michelle Konzack]

Am 2007-07-15 22:57:10, schrieb Daniel Leidert:
> Am Samstag, den 14.07.2007, 12:44 -0400 schrieb Joey Hess:
> > Until there is one, I don't see any reason why I should accept patches
> > adding menu files to my packages.
> 
> The .desktop format is not only about the menu item itself. It also
> contains the application <-> MIME/file type association information. The
> update-desktop-database then parses all .desktop files and creates this
> database (/usr/share/applications/mimeinfo.cache). AFAIK KDE 3 uses this
> system, his own system and the old system via /usr/lib/mime (metamail,
> right?). But GNOME AFAIK only uses the current shared MIME info
> database.

Which mean, over the half of the .desktop files would be useless for peoples
NOT USING KDE or Gnome.  However, I support ONE fileformat since maintaining
a .menu AND A .desktop file costs some nerv specialy, if you can not use/test
the .desktop files.

So if "menu" use the .desktop files as input, it would be good.

> > Generating both menu and .desktop files from a third format would be
> > pointless. Either format can be generated from the other format.
> 
> No. The Debian menu entries do not contain the information about which
> MIME/file types can be handled nor in which menus the entry should

This is right, but WM's which do not use .desktop files do they support
those mime stuff?  --  AFAIK no.

> occur. The Debian menu items also do not contain the information, how to

???  --  What do you mean, with "in which entry they should occur"?

The "Menu System" have the "section=" which is, WHERE the item occur.

> handle the arguments when calling the program from e.g. nautilus to open

Does this work under "fvwm" too?  AFAIK no.

> a special file. And I don't want to start to tell about the "action"
> section possibilities ;) However, the formats only share some basic
> information, but the .desktop format contains much more information,
> than the Debian menu item files. You may be able to create a Debian menu
> file from the .desktop file. But the other way would be very useless.

It depends, whether the apps SHOULD be run from GNOME/KDE or not.
For many (most of my) apps, I do not need any mime stuff and such.

> > menu
> > already generates .desktop files from menu files, and I don't believe it
> > would be too hard to make menu _read_ .desktop files directly and use it
> > as a source for the other files it generates.
> 
> This may be possible. Maybe the Debian menu file format should follow
> the freedesktop.org specification too and contain something like:
> 
> NoDisplay=true
> X-Debian_only=true
> 
> to show, that the item should only appear in the Debian menu. Then put
> these files into e.g. /usr/share/applications/debian and drop the old
> menu format in /usr/share/menu. This is just one possible solutions to
> the situation (not an recommendation).

This could be a solution :-)

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


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Re: adding desktop files to misc packages

[Michelle Konzack]

Am 2007-07-14 10:55:00, schrieb Bernhard R. Link:
> * Josselin Mouette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [070713 23:44]:
> > IMO the Debian menu should be entirely deprecated unless something
> > serious is done about it. Currently:
> >   * It is utterly and absolutely ugly. 32x32 XPM icons are not
> > matching the graphic quality we have on the rest of the desktop.
> 
> Then just add larger or any other icons (in appropiate additional fields).
> One of my packages already has a 64x64 icon. Currently no window manager
> user it, but if I would use any window manager showing icons and not
> scaling them down to 16x16 it would be almost no efford to make them use
> them.

Mabe the "Debian Menu" or .desktop files should not only
support icon16 and icon32 but icon48 and icon64 too?

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


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Re: adding desktop files to misc packages

[Michelle Konzack]

Hi Don,

Am 2007-07-16 04:12:02, schrieb Don Armstrong:
> So it seems like we should do the following:
> 
> 1. Make changes to the menu system to use .desktop files in preference
> to .menu files when they exist
> 
> 2. Generate .desktop files from .menu files using the menu system when
> .desktop files don't exist.

This two would be realy good.

> 3. Continue using the menu system for window managers which don't
> natively understand .desktop files; drop the Debian menu for those
> that do.

The last sentence makes no sense, because WM's do not depend on the
"Menu System".  They only Recommends or Suggests "menu".  So you can
not drop anything.

If you have a WM which support .desktop files, this WM should not
Recommends/Suggests "menu".  All others which support menus should.

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


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Re: adding desktop files to misc packages

[Michelle Konzack]

Hello Neil,

Am 2007-07-15 14:11:55, schrieb Neil Williams:
> If all Gnome packages silently drop debian/menu in the next upload, is
> that actually going to be a problem for anyone?

Since WE (me, colegous and friends) do not use any GNOME/KDE Apps,
where will be no lost for us.

But maybe the KDE/GNOME menu files can be put into a seperated package
for those which do not RUN KDE/GNOME but some dedicated Apps?

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


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Re: adding desktop files to misc packages

[Michelle Konzack]

Am 2007-07-13 23:43:56, schrieb Josselin Mouette:
> Le vendredi 13 juillet 2007 à 16:54 -0400, Joey Hess a écrit : 
> > I've gotten some bug reports lately asking for desktop files to be added
> > to packages like xgalaga and kobodeluxe, and saw some others in the BTS.
> > All of these packages, of course, already include Debian menu files. But I 
> > don't understand what the rationalle is behind adding a desktop file to a
> > package that includes a Debian menu file and is not a Gnome/KDE component.
> 
> The Freedesktop.org menu is not meant to be limited to GNOME and KDE
> components.
> 
> IMO the Debian menu should be entirely deprecated unless something
> serious is done about it. Currently: 
>   * It is utterly and absolutely ugly. 32x32 XPM icons are not
> matching the graphic quality we have on the rest of the desktop.

Example?

>   * Its structure is impractical. Most important things are in
> Applications/, which adds a menu level with no use, and several
> submenus are useless.

Oh right, there are some Entries which can not be started form the "Menu
System" since they need at least a Parameter/Filename/XTerm and such...
For such Apps I have several times contacted the appropiated Maintainer
in the last 3 years, but nothing has changed...

This has something to do with busy or lazzy Maintainers and not the
"Menu System" itself.

>   * Most importantly, it is absolutely full of useless stuff.

Example?

> Why do we need a menu entry for each shell ? A user who wants another
> shell is most probably capable of running it himself.

How to start it form FVWM?

if I want a eTerm, and have only an entry vor XTerm schould I start
an XTerm and from the XTerm my eTerm?  --  Sounds a little bit Weird.

> A menu entry for each window manager? WTF? We can select them from the
> display manager now.

And if you do now want to logout and ONLY replace the actual WM?
(fvwm support it)

Oh yes, some of the fvwm Module entries are currently definitiv useless,
but they can be improved, since zou can load modules as you need it.
(You can create a config for it and then if you need it start it from
the "Menu System" which does not work for most Modules in the current
form)

> A menu entry for yelp? It is already accessible from all applications
> needing it and from the GNOME panel.

I have no GNOME and starting a terminal with "info" or the xman is in
the Section "Help" right placed.

> An entry for each python/TCL/guile interpreter on the system? Can't
> developers use terminals? 

I found it usefull to runn a Python 2.3 and 2.4 shell or the Tclsh 8.4.

> An entry for each of the bsdgames? For nano? For so many terminal
> applications that you want to run, well, in a terminal?

Yes, since for most are no GUI applications if you NOT use KDE/GNOME.
OK, BSD games schould not be realy there (never used and I do not know...)

> Apart from a few games (see the initial request you were faced with), I
> can't find anything in the Debian menu which is neither already in the
> GNOME menu at a better place, or simply completely unsuitable for a
> graphical menu.

But what about peoples which do not RUN GNOME/KDE?

Most of the peoples I know, do not use such DE's AND WE use High-End
Machines where we can run 10 Gnome/KDE Installations in parallel without
seeing a perforance problem...

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


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Re: adding desktop files to misc packages

[Michelle Konzack]

Hello Joey,

Am 2007-07-13 18:02:18, schrieb Joey Hess:
> Bastian Venthur wrote:
> You should be able to do this on your own system by editing
> /etc/menu-methods/translate_menus.
> 
> But.. The Appications menu can already have up to 23 submenus, and already
> grows beyond 10 on many typical systems. Rather and moving it up and so
> having an enormous root menu with 15-30 items, it would be good to
> reduce the number of items already in it closer to 10 via deeper tree
> structure or more reorganisation. Bearing in mind that menu can flatten
> unnecessarily deeper tree structures if the tree is lightly populated.

I have nearly the same problem with 16 submenus in Apps.

But the bigger problem is, that some applications have "titles"
for applications which go over 1/3 of a 1024x768 screen mostly
Openoffice Apps like "Openoffice.org Printer Administration"
where the menu has a width of 372 pixels which is realy annoying.

> > Besides that, from my naive-user's point of view I wonder why my menu
> > has so many redundant entries? Maybe we could get rid of the Debian menu

I have never seen a redunant menu entry since I use "fvwm"
and have over 1400 entries in the Debian Menu System.


Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


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Re: adding desktop files to misc packages

[Michelle Konzack]

Am 2007-07-13 23:49:29, schrieb Josselin Mouette:
> Le vendredi 13 juillet 2007 à 17:30 -0400, Joey Hess a écrit :
> > There are probably enhancements that would let it create _better_
> > .desktop files. For example, ones with translations..
> 
> Ah, right. I forgot translations. Another good reason to drop the Debian
> menu system.

And if someone does not use KDE/GNOME for ANY reason?

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day
Michelle Konzack
Systemadministrator
Tamay Dogan Network
Debian GNU/Linux Consultant


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Re: Is Andrew Lau (netsnipe) MIA?

[Roger Leigh]

Nico Golde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> * Roger Leigh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-07-22 13:17]:
>> Is Andrew Lau ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) known to be MIA?
>
> mia-query says no

I already checked that, but I thought I had better make a better check
before contacting the MIA team.


Thanks,
Roger

-- 
  .''`.  Roger Leigh
 : :' :  Debian GNU/Linux http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/
 `. `'   Printing on GNU/Linux?   http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/
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Re: Is Andrew Lau (netsnipe) MIA?

[Mohammed Adnène Trojette]

On Sun, Jul 22, 2007, Nico Golde wrote:
> mia-query says no

Hello,

mia-query only lists summaries of email exchanges with the person in
question. That means that when it says "no", it only says "I am not
aware of him being MIA". So I've marked him inactive right now but I
will have to contact him later to check whether he is really MIA.

Have a nice day,
-- 
Mohammed Adnène Trojette


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Re: Is Andrew Lau (netsnipe) MIA?

[Nico Golde]

Hallo Roger,

* Roger Leigh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-07-22 13:17]:
> Is Andrew Lau ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) known to be MIA?

mia-query says no
Kind regards
Nico
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Is Andrew Lau (netsnipe) MIA?

[Roger Leigh]

Hi folks,

Is Andrew Lau ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) known to be MIA?

The packages he maintains and co-maintains are listed below.  Most are
GNOME packages he has not apparently uploaded.  Some are already
comaintained by others.  The two of most concern are cinepaint and
cupsys-pt, which are not comaintained.  cinepaint has since had
several NMUs to fix build issues.

If he is truly MIA, it might be worth removing him from the list of
GNOME maintainers, and as the primary maintainer of the comaintained
packages.  cinepaint and cupsys-pt would probably need orphaning.


Package Last upload ComaintainedPrimary maintainer
--
balsa   20060301Yes Yes
bug-buddy   20050611Yes Yes
cinepaint   20060108No  Yes
cupsys-pt   20040607No  Yes
glabels 20060125Yes Yes
gnome-nettool   20050308Yes Yes
gtksourceview   20050610Yes Yes
mozilla-bonobo  20050312Yes Yes
nautilus-sendto 20060125Yes No
openexr 20050819Yes Yes
tsclient20050604Yes Yes
alleyoopNever   Yes No
gamin   Never   Yes No
gdesklets   Never   Yes No
gdesklets-data  Never   Yes No
gdm-themes  Never   Yes No
ghexNever   Yes No
gksuNever   Yes No
glade   Never   Yes No
gnome-cups-manager  Never   Yes No
gnome-mud   Never   Yes No
gnome-netstatus Never   Yes No
gnome-python-extras Never   Yes No
gnome-spell Never   Yes No
gtetrinet   Never   Yes No
gtk+1.2 Never   Yes No
gtodo-appletNever   Yes No
gweled  Never   Yes No
gyrus   Never   Yes No
hicolor-icon-theme  Never   Yes No
industrial-cursor-theme Never   Yes No
jhbuild Never   Yes No
leafpad Never   Yes No
libcm   Never   Yes No
libcrocoNever   Yes No
libgda2 Never   Yes No
libgksu1.2  Never   Yes No
libgksuui1.0Never   Yes No
libgnetwork Never   Yes No
libgnomecupsNever   Yes No
libgnomesu  Never   Yes No
libgtkhtml2 Never   Yes No
libsoup Never   Yes No
mergeantNever   Yes No
netspeedNever   Yes No
scrollkeeperNever   Yes No
startup-notificationNever   Yes No


Regards,
Roger

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 : :' :  Debian GNU/Linux http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/
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Bug#434206: ITP: moe -- powerful text editor for ISO-8859 and ASCII character encodings

[Kumar Appaiah]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Kumar Appaiah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


* Package name: moe
  Version : 0.9
  Upstream Author : Antonio Diaz Diaz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://www.gnu.org/software/moe/moe.html
* License : GPL
  Programming Lang: C++
  Description : powerful text editor for ISO-8859 and ASCII character 
encodings

GNU Moe is a powerful, 8-bit clean, text editor for ISO-8859 and ASCII
character encodings. It has a modeless, user-friendly interface,
online help, multiple windows, unlimited undo/redo capability,
unlimited line length, global search/replace (on all buffers at once),
block operations, automatic indentation, word wrapping, filename
completion, directory browser, duplicate removal from prompt
histories, delimiter matching, etc.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (990, 'unstable'), (500, 'testing')
Architecture: i386 (i686)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-ck1 (SMP w/2 CPU cores; PREEMPT)
Locale: LANG=en_US, LC_CTYPE=en_US (charmap=ISO-8859-1) (ignored: LC_ALL set to 
en_US)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash


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Gardul viu - minune!!!

[Gard viu]

GARDUL VIU-MINUNE!!!
Creste rapid (1.20-1.80 m/an)!!!
E incredibil de nepretentios!!! (atât în privinta solului cât si a îngrijirii)
E incredibil de ieftin!!!
Capacitate de umbrire excelenta!
Capacitate antipraf de un grad înalt!
Este o planta foioasa, de culoare verde viu, cu frunze mici lucioase, formând 
un gard viu de mare densitate.
De la 0.9 RON/rasad, peste 1000 de bucati!
Pentru detalii, vizitati site-ul www.gardviu.ro
Tel: 0744313265
Echipa, NET GREEN AGENT
Homa srl
 
Acest mesaj contine datele noastre de identificare si instructiuni de 
dezabonare. V-a fost oferit din urmatoarele motive: sunteti in baza noastra de 
date ca urmare a unor corespondente anterioare,
adresa Dvs. a fost selectata dintr-o baza de date la care ati subscris, adresa 
Dvs. a fost facuta publica prin afisari cu caracter publicitar. Ne cerem scuze 
daca mesajul ajunge la Dvs. dintr-o eroare
sau daca acest e-mail nu va aduce informatii utile.
- Daca nu mai doriti sa primiti ofertele noastre dati clic la dezabonare in 
mailul prezent si veti fi exclus din baza noastra de date". Conform legislatiei 
( http://www.legi-internet.ro/lg365.htm )
din Romania pentru trimiterea de oferte comerciale prin posta electronica 
trebuie obtinut acordul destinatarului. Va multumim pentru intelegere si speram 
intr-o colaborare benefica ambelor parti!
 


Clic aici pt. optiuni de abonare! ( 
http://roman.viaszfestes.hu/index.php?option=com_acajoom&act=change&subscriber=8732&cle=c4b71992bd71327e8969323a5058372a&listid=2
 )
Clic aici pentru dezabonare. ( 
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Bug#434188: ITP: metasm -- cross architecture and cross platform assembler, disassembler and linker

[Arnaud Cornet]

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist
Owner: Arnaud Cornet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

* Package name: metasm
  Version : 0.1
  Upstream Author : Yoann GUILLOT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
* URL : http://metasm.cr0.org/
* License : LGPL
  Programming Lang: Ruby
  Description : cross architecture and cross platform assembler, 
disassembler and linker

Metasm is a cross-architecture assembler, disassembler and linker. It
has advanced features such as remote process manipulation,
GCC-compatible preprocessor and automatic backtracking in the
disassembler. It is written in pure Ruby.

-- System Information:
Debian Release: lenny/sid
  APT prefers unstable
  APT policy: (500, 'unstable'), (1, 'experimental')
Architecture: amd64 (x86_64)

Kernel: Linux 2.6.21.5-sexy (SMP w/2 CPU cores)
Locale: LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=fr_FR.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash


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Re: Thoughts about the bug tracking system

[Bastian Venthur]

Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 10:50:15 +0200, Bastian Venthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: 
>> Or, if you prefer a GUI application with out of the box support for
>> most mail clients, try reportbug-ng. 
> 
> My major problem with reportbug-ng was that is is very hard to
>  configure -- at least, I could not get it to use my preferred MUA; it
>  has a limited selection of what it considers acceptable user agents,

Why do you think I consider some mail clients "unacceptable"? In fact I
try to include as much mail clients as possible. I just need to know them.

>  and if you are not using it, then you are out of luck.

That's not true. As I already told you, all you have to do is to send me
a valid call of your mail client where the composer opens with to-,
subject- and body prefilled.

Most mail clients I know support either

  foo-mua mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]&body=foobody

or

  foo-mua -to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -subject foosubject -body foobody

Send me the name of your mail client you're missing and a working call
and I'll include it.


Cheers,

Bastian

-- 
Bastian Venthur  http://venthur.de
Debian Developer venthur at debian org


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