Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 11:47:52PM +0200, Bernd Eckenfels wrote: On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 12:31:14PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote: * New Upstream Version (closes: #176227, #188308, #90276) Changelog abuse. This is only a valid entry if all 3 of these bugs were requests for a new version, which they were not. to me it reads: fixed by the new version. which is perfectly valid. To me it does not. I close bugs with New Upstream Version when the bugs were requesting a new version because upstream released a new one. They should read, at least: * The new version closes: ... to make the difference. mooch -- Jesus Climent | Unix SysAdm | Helsinki, Finland | pumuki.hispalinux.es GPG: 1024D/86946D69 BB64 2339 1CAA 7064 E429 7E18 66FC 1D7F 8694 6D69 -- Registered Linux user #66350 proudly using Debian Sid Linux 2.4.20 If a man cannot choose, he ceases to be a man. --Minister (A clockwork orange)
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
Hi, Jesus Climent wrote: On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 11:47:52PM +0200, Bernd Eckenfels wrote: On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 12:31:14PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote: * New Upstream Version (closes: #176227, #188308, #90276) Changelog abuse. This is only a valid entry if all 3 of these bugs were requests for a new version, which they were not. to me it reads: fixed by the new version. which is perfectly valid. To me it does not. I close bugs with New Upstream Version when the bugs were requesting a new version because upstream released a new one. They should read, at least: * The new version closes: ... That's shit too. * New Upstream version - explanation of the bug or fix (closes: #nr) ... ... would be the best solution. Regards, René -- .''`. René Engelhard -- Debian GNU/Linux Developer : :' : http://www.debian.org | http://people.debian.org/~rene/ `. `' [EMAIL PROTECTED] | GnuPG-Key ID: 248AEB73 `- Fingerprint: 41FA F208 28D4 7CA5 19BB 7AD9 F859 90B0 248A EB73 pgplV2Uu2H7nx.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
On Fri, 23 May 2003, Bernd Eckenfels wrote: On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 09:51:33PM -0500, Adam Heath wrote: Admin installs from cd. Admin runs programs. Admin finds something he thinks is a bug. Admin reads changelog to see if the bug existed previously. hmm.. why would he do that? Because I consider that standard debugging procedure. Always see if the symptoms you are seeing are similiar to something that has happened in the past. Bugs tend to cluster around small bits of code. Ie, the vast majority of code tends to be relatively bug free, and a small amount of code has the highest concentration of bugs. So looking for similiar bugs in a software program's history can clue one in on how to fix new bugs.
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 09:39:55PM +0200, Michael Banck wrote: On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 08:49:52PM +0200, Francesco Paolo Lovergine wrote: On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 12:31:14PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote: * Acknowledge NMU (closes: #174301, #172803, #179036, #177616) Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. Do it using BTS directly. Come on. This is getting a bit over the top, IMHO. After all, he *did* merge those changes from the NMU into his local tree. Or even if he just pulled the lastest debian source, it would still be a change. I think it's entirely reasonable to do this. What is the current consensus on this? That's a general consensus about not using changelog as a BTS management tool. That's an improper use, see some old flames about similar cases. And it generally causes confusion in bug submitters' mind: how many of them knows the difference between a fixed and a closed bug? A brief note about NMU changes incorporation in changelog and closing those bugs in BTS by hand is more correct IMO. -- Francesco P. Lovergine
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
On Fri, May 23, 2003 at 10:12:35AM +0200, Francesco P. Lovergine wrote: And it generally causes confusion in bug submitters' mind: how many of them knows the difference between a fixed and a closed bug? A brief note about NMU changes incorporation in changelog and closing those bugs in BTS by hand is more correct IMO. I'd say we should rather ensure that bug submitters get a notification when a bug is fixed (i.e. by the time of the NMU), in case it's not handled like that already, than to duplicate information in the changelog. Michael
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
On Fri, May 23, 2003 at 11:28:34AM +0200, Michael Banck wrote: And it generally causes confusion in bug submitters' mind: how many of them knows the difference between a fixed and a closed bug? A brief note about NMU changes incorporation in changelog and closing those bugs in BTS by hand is more correct IMO. I'd say we should rather ensure that bug submitters get a notification when a bug is fixed (i.e. by the time of the NMU), in case it's not handled like that already, than to duplicate information in the changelog. I figure a patch could be provided for the right part of katie -- it already knows NMUs (special case for not closing bugs), you just have to insert the sending of mail with the right verbiage. The latter, however, doesn't strike me as particularly obvious. What do you tell the submitter? Do you recommend the upgrade, or just suggest it? Do you mention it's a NMU, should they care? It's somewhat puzzling, as there are NMUs of various qualities... Arguably, there are maintainer uploads of various qualities, but given it's the official upload, the licence to recommend it is implied, whereas with a NMU, it is not. -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 12:31:14PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote: * Acknowledge NMU (closes: #174301, #172803, #179036, #177616) Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. Do it using BTS directly. -- Francesco P. Lovergine
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
This one time, at band camp, Francesco Paolo Lovergine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 12:31:14PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote: * Acknowledge NMU (closes: #174301, #172803, #179036, #177616) Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. Do it using BTS directly. Debian Developers' Reference actually recommends doing that on the first line of the new changelog entry. Morgon -- You said homosexuals form a small percentage of the population. So do Jews. Is that a reason to deny someone equality? - Richard Marceau
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 08:49:52PM +0200, Francesco Paolo Lovergine wrote: On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 12:31:14PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote: * Acknowledge NMU (closes: #174301, #172803, #179036, #177616) Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. Do it using BTS directly. Come on. This is getting a bit over the top, IMHO. After all, he *did* merge those changes from the NMU into his local tree. Or even if he just pulled the lastest debian source, it would still be a change. I think it's entirely reasonable to do this. What is the current consensus on this? Michael
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
* Francesco Paolo Lovergine ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 12:31:14PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote: * Acknowledge NMU (closes: #174301, #172803, #179036, #177616) Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. Do it using BTS directly. He's officially closeing NMU's because he's uploading an actual maintainer upload. I think that's very appropriate for the changelog. Stephen pgpzacJVxdall.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
El día 22 may 2003, Francesco Paolo Lovergine escribía: On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 12:31:14PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote: * Acknowledge NMU (closes: #174301, #172803, #179036, #177616) Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. Do it using BTS directly. This use of changelog is fine, IMO. You make a mantainer upload using the modifications made in NMUs, which has yet the Closes line. But they only tag the bugs as fixed. I even think this is written somewore -- Jose Carlos Garcia Sogo [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpuwWysSbZ0Y.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
* Francesco Paolo Lovergine ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030522 21:35]: On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 12:31:14PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote: * Acknowledge NMU (closes: #174301, #172803, #179036, #177616) Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. Do it using BTS directly. The developers references tells that both methods are allowed in 5.11.4 http://www.debian.de/doc/developers-reference/ch-pkgs.en.html#s-ack-nmu I for myself prefer the changelog entry because it shows direct which bugs are closed by the maintainer. Cheers, Andi -- http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/ PGP 1024/89FB5CE5 DC F1 85 6D A6 45 9C 0F 3B BE F1 D0 C5 D1 D9 0C
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 08:49:52PM +0200, Francesco Paolo Lovergine wrote: On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 12:31:14PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote: * Acknowledge NMU (closes: #174301, #172803, #179036, #177616) Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. Do it using BTS directly. Uh, nope. See the developers' reference, chapter 5.11.5. The idea is: if you're not uploading a new version, the NMU is still not 'worked away'. By closing fixed bugs directly, one could forget to incorporate the changes of the NMU... -- Wouter Verhelst Debian GNU/Linux -- http://www.debian.org Nederlandstalige Linux-documentatie -- http://nl.linux.org An expert can usually spot the difference between a fake charge and a full one, but there are plenty of dead experts. -- National Geographic Channel, in a documentary about large African beasts. pgpRVUUnKi7rk.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 03:33:29PM -0400, Morgon Kanter wrote: * Acknowledge NMU (closes: #174301, #172803, #179036, #177616) Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. Do it using BTS directly. Debian Developers' Reference actually recommends doing that on the first line of the new changelog entry. No, it does not _recommend_ that, don't misrepresent it! -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
This one time, at band camp, Josip Rodin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Acknowledge NMU (closes: #174301, #172803, #179036, #177616) Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. Do it using BTS directly. Debian Developers' Reference actually recommends doing that on the first line of the new changelog entry. No, it does not _recommend_ that, don't misrepresent it! [...] It is an old tradition to acknowledge bugs fixed in non-maintainer uploads in the first changelog entry of the proper maintainer upload, for instance, in a changelog entry like this: old tradition usually seems to mean good idea to me. Morgon -- You said homosexuals form a small percentage of the population. So do Jews. Is that a reason to deny someone equality? - Richard Marceau
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 10:10:28PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: * Francesco Paolo Lovergine ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030522 21:35]: Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. Do it using BTS directly. The developers references tells that both methods are allowed in 5.11.4 http://www.debian.de/doc/developers-reference/ch-pkgs.en.html#s-ack-nmu I for myself prefer the changelog entry because it shows direct which bugs are closed by the maintainer. There's another interesting approach: use 'dpkg-buildpackage -vlast version you uploaded'. That way you don't even need to include another changelog entry, but the generated .changes will include a Closes: line for all the NMU-fixed bugs. -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 05:27:40PM -0400, Morgon Kanter wrote: * Acknowledge NMU (closes: #174301, #172803, #179036, #177616) Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. Do it using BTS directly. Debian Developers' Reference actually recommends doing that on the first line of the new changelog entry. No, it does not _recommend_ that, don't misrepresent it! [...] It is an old tradition to acknowledge bugs fixed in non-maintainer uploads in the first changelog entry of the proper maintainer upload, for instance, in a changelog entry like this: old tradition usually seems to mean good idea to me. For some people, rebooting machines at first sight of trouble is an old tradition, too... :) -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
Guido Trotter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 12:31:14PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote: directory-administrator (1.3.5-1) unstable; urgency=low . * New Upstream Version (closes: #176227, #188308, #90276) Changelog abuse. This is only a valid entry if all 3 of these bugs were requests for a new version, which they were not. The features included in that version (and listed in upstream changelog) solve the problems reported in the other two report... Then please use a changelog entry for each change, such as * New Upstream Version (closes: #176227) - Fixes error after updating user entry (closes: #188308) - Fixes segfaults on connect (closes: #90276) If you don't do this, the original bug submitters will see a bug has been fixed, but probably not remember what the bug was, especially if he or she filed multiple bugs for the package. Furthermore, it's a real pain to have to look at the BTS, and then search through the upstream changelog to find the corresponding fix. This should be described in the developer's reference (as if anyone actually follows it). -- Poems... always a sign of pretentious inner turmoil. pgpmug8d5aEfe.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
Bernd Eckenfels [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 11:55:36PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: It's much more helpful to write this as: yes of course, but the question is where the line between helpfulness and usefulness is :) At least I think it is not a good idea to talk about abuse if maintainers save themself some work. This might have the opposite effet than desired. Well in that case, let's just use changelog entries like * Closes: #1234, #2345, #3456, #4567 That will save developers some work, right? Or, even better, let's just drop usage of that work and time-consuming BTS altogether. To save developers even more work, let's allow them to never test, or even build, a package before upload. And, let's not fix security holes either, because that takes too much effort. Shall I go on? -- Poems... always a sign of pretentious inner turmoil. pgpbLeTlp2cL2.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
This one time, at band camp, Josip Rodin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, it does not _recommend_ that, don't misrepresent it! [...] It is an old tradition to acknowledge bugs fixed in non-maintainer uploads in the first changelog entry of the proper maintainer upload, for instance, in a changelog entry like this: old tradition usually seems to mean good idea to me. For some people, rebooting machines at first sight of trouble is an old tradition, too... :) Point taken! Morgon -- You said homosexuals form a small percentage of the population. So do Jews. Is that a reason to deny someone equality? - Richard Marceau
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 03:33:05PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote: Shall I go on? No. Michael -- -!- bunny is now known as trinityBunny trinityBunny =) * trinityBunny doubles flips in the room, slow motion rotates around jbailey waves h at him in fast motion and stands still.
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
Em Thu, 22 May 2003 01:26:27 +0200, Bernd Eckenfels [EMAIL PROTECTED] escreveu: On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 11:55:36PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: It's much more helpful to write this as: yes of course, but the question is where the line between helpfulness and usefulness is :) At least I think it is not a good idea to talk about abuse if maintainers save themself some work. This might have the opposite effet than desired. That's *very* useful, too. And that would save people a lot of work when tracking problem causes, etc. It will not kill adding a few more details when closing a bug, and that makes the changelog much more useful. This is the way I do: * New upstream release - it seems like the lng CC is not a problem anymore (Closes: #182003) - IMAP has gone through a lot of work, so I believe this should be fixed. Also, this version is supposed to fix the 'io blocking' thingy. (Closes: #164101) Damn, it evens helps the submitter to understand what problem has been fixed when he receives the notification. []s! -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Gustavo Noronha http://people.debian.org/~kov Debian: http://www.debian.org * http://www.debian-br.org Dúvidas sobre o Debian? Visite o Rau-Tu: http://rautu.cipsga.org.br
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 10:10:28PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: * Francesco Paolo Lovergine ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [030522 21:35]: Ugh, also this one. Do not use changelog for closing fixed bugs. Do it using BTS directly. The developers references tells that both methods are allowed in 5.11.4 http://www.debian.de/doc/developers-reference/ch-pkgs.en.html#s-ack-nmu I for myself prefer the changelog entry because it shows direct which bugs are closed by the maintainer. There's another interesting approach: use 'dpkg-buildpackage -vlast version you uploaded'. That way you don't even need to include another changelog entry, but the generated .changes will include a Closes: line for all the NMU-fixed bugs. This is the best method, I think. IIRC, bug submitters don't receive an acknowledgment for bugs fixed in an NMU; they only receive them when closed by the maintainer. Consequently, they only get an acknowledgment that says something like * Acknowledge NMU (closes: xxx) which is not informative at all. I would much rather see the changelog entry made by the NMU-er. -- Poems... always a sign of pretentious inner turmoil. pgp6yX3vYc00j.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
On Thu, 22 May 2003, Brian Nelson wrote: If you don't do this, the original bug submitters will see a bug has been fixed, but probably not remember what the bug was, especially if he or she filed multiple bugs for the package. Furthermore, it's a real pain to have to look at the BTS, and then search through the upstream changelog to find the corresponding fix. That's the wrong reason. Consider the admin, who discovers some bug. They look at the changelogs for the problem package, seeing if it had a similiar bug. Also, consider that this system is not online, and the admin has no network connection.
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 08:11:23PM -0500, Adam Heath wrote: Consider the admin, who discovers some bug. They look at the changelogs for the problem package, seeing if it had a similiar bug. Also, consider that this system is not online, and the admin has no network connection. Well, an admin who is not online but do has changelogs which are more recent that his installed packages is for sure quite seldom. I wonder is that is a very common reason at all. For those admins i would suggest to mirror mozilla bugtracker in addition to mozilla archive. :) Greetings Bernd -- (OO) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ( .. ) [EMAIL PROTECTED],linux.de,debian.org} http://home.pages.de/~eckes/ o--o *plush* 2048/93600EFD [EMAIL PROTECTED] +497257930613 BE5-RIPE (OO) When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
On Fri, 23 May 2003, Bernd Eckenfels wrote: On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 08:11:23PM -0500, Adam Heath wrote: Consider the admin, who discovers some bug. They look at the changelogs for the problem package, seeing if it had a similiar bug. Also, consider that this system is not online, and the admin has no network connection. Well, an admin who is not online but do has changelogs which are more recent that his installed packages is for sure quite seldom. I wonder is that is a very common reason at all. You misunderstand. Admin installs from cd. Admin runs programs. Admin finds something he thinks is a bug. Admin reads changelog to see if the bug existed previously.
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
On Thu, May 22, 2003 at 09:51:33PM -0500, Adam Heath wrote: Admin installs from cd. Admin runs programs. Admin finds something he thinks is a bug. Admin reads changelog to see if the bug existed previously. hmm.. why would he do that? Greetings Bernd -- (OO) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ( .. ) [EMAIL PROTECTED],linux.de,debian.org} http://home.pages.de/~eckes/ o--o *plush* 2048/93600EFD [EMAIL PROTECTED] +497257930613 BE5-RIPE (OO) When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
Guido Trotter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Format: 1.7 Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 17:31:23 +0200 Source: directory-administrator Binary: directory-administrator Architecture: source i386 Version: 1.3.5-1 Distribution: unstable Urgency: low Maintainer: Guido Trotter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Changed-By: Guido Trotter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Description: directory-administrator - LDAP POSIX user/group manager for GNOME Closes: 90276 172803 174301 176227 177616 179036 188308 191721 193685 194043 Changes: directory-administrator (1.3.5-1) unstable; urgency=low . * New Upstream Version (closes: #176227, #188308, #90276) Changelog abuse. This is only a valid entry if all 3 of these bugs were requests for a new version, which they were not. * New Maintainer (adopted this package with permission from the old one) * Move to section gnome * Create a manpage (closes: #194043) * Explained that it works with LDAPv2 only in README.Debian (closes: #191721) * Put the binary in /usr/bin (closes: #193685) * Acknowledge NMU (closes: #174301, #172803, #179036, #177616) * Bump Standards-Version to 3.5.10 * Fix a typo in the changelog * Seems that the build dependency on autoconf and automake isn't necessary anymore. -- Poems... always a sign of pretentious inner turmoil. pgppGYk5y4yVd.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 12:31:14PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote: * New Upstream Version (closes: #176227, #188308, #90276) Changelog abuse. This is only a valid entry if all 3 of these bugs were requests for a new version, which they were not. to me it reads: fixed by the new version. which is perfectly valid. Greetings Bernd -- (OO) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ( .. ) [EMAIL PROTECTED],linux.de,debian.org} http://home.pages.de/~eckes/ o--o *plush* 2048/93600EFD [EMAIL PROTECTED] +497257930613 BE5-RIPE (OO) When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 12:31:14PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote: directory-administrator (1.3.5-1) unstable; urgency=low . * New Upstream Version (closes: #176227, #188308, #90276) Changelog abuse. This is only a valid entry if all 3 of these bugs were requests for a new version, which they were not. The features included in that version (and listed in upstream changelog) solve the problems reported in the other two report... Bye, Guido -- Guido Trotter Jabber ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] pgpPTT07Zybha.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 11:47:52PM +0200, Bernd Eckenfels wrote: On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 12:31:14PM -0700, Brian Nelson wrote: * New Upstream Version (closes: #176227, #188308, #90276) Changelog abuse. This is only a valid entry if all 3 of these bugs were requests for a new version, which they were not. to me it reads: fixed by the new version. which is perfectly valid. It's much more helpful to write this as: * New upstream version (closes: #176227). - README file no longer says snork (closes: #188308). - Don't kill the user's dog whenever the program is run (closes: #90276). -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Accepted directory-administrator 1.3.5-1 (i386 source)
On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 11:55:36PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote: It's much more helpful to write this as: yes of course, but the question is where the line between helpfulness and usefulness is :) At least I think it is not a good idea to talk about abuse if maintainers save themself some work. This might have the opposite effet than desired. Greetins Bernd -- (OO) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ( .. ) [EMAIL PROTECTED],linux.de,debian.org} http://home.pages.de/~eckes/ o--o *plush* 2048/93600EFD [EMAIL PROTECTED] +497257930613 BE5-RIPE (OO) When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!
