Re: modifications by sponsors
* Bart Martens ba...@debian.org, 2012-07-11, 11:34: I have the following questions about sponsorship. I would like to welcome answers from sponsors and from people maintaining packages via sponsorship. Is it OK that a sponsor adds modifications to a sponsored package ? Sometimes. Adding DMUA comes to mind… If a change is small and uncontroversial, and it would be the last thing stopping you from upload, then doing a fix yourself saves you a round-trip. Is it OK that a sponsor adds him/herself to Uploaders ? If you intend to co-maintain the package and the current maintainer is okay with that, then yes. (Wasn't co-maintenance supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread? :) One thing one has to be wary about is: a question if the sponsor can add themselves to Uploaders can be seen by the sponsoree as an offer they cannot refuse. It's a good idea to make it clear that this is not the case. p.s. Not subscribed. -- Jakub Wilk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120731074425.ga2...@jwilk.net
Re: modifications by sponsors
On 2012-07-11 at 11:34:20 +, Bart Martens wrote: I have the following questions about sponsorship. I would like to welcome answers from sponsors and from people maintaining packages via sponsorship. As somebody who has just started maintaining via sponsorship. Is it OK that a sponsor adds modifications to a sponsored package ? Minor changes that don't change my packaging workflow are fine. Silent changes on the other hand are bad, since they don't allow me to learn. Is it OK that a sponsor adds him/herself to Uploaders ? If his/her involvement is significant (in terms of suggested / applied changes, not just time spent testing) I guess that the package is already co-maintained in practice, so why not? This should be done in agreement with the maintainer, however. -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: modifications by sponsors
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 5:34 AM, Bart Martens wrote: Is it OK that a sponsor adds modifications to a sponsored package ? I have done this in the past for small things. I think this is ok as long as these are small issues and they are reported to the maintainer. Is it OK that a sponsor adds him/herself to Uploaders ? I have done this in the past for libicns. I'm part of upstream and was sponsoring the other upstream person so he could learn some Debian packaging stuff and various QA and code quality things. Before the wheezy freeze he didn't have time to fix all the issues I found so I just went ahead and fixed them and did an upload, adding me to uploaders. My answers are currently no and no, but there may be different opinions. My answers are it depends and it depends :) Debian, like the real world is not black and white, different sponsor+sponsee pairs will have different relationships and different practices. Some DDs refuse to do traditional sponsorship and will *only* accept doing co-maintainence. Other DDs don't care about helping people learn packaging and just upload with no comments or with just the things that *must* fixed. Other DDs (like me) overwhelm maintainers with feedback but don't sponsor uploads (except for their interests). I guess there are also DDs who ask sponsees to go through many iterations of their package, gradually improving it before upload. I don't think there is one right approach, every sponsor and every sponsee is different, we all learn at different rates and need different amounts of interaction to do so. -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAKTje6H4fR_-UscjYLu=qgxHmMpVHeTnaJdw_YC7PmNmo-f=1...@mail.gmail.com
Re: modifications by sponsors
Salutations, On Wed, 2012-07-11 at 11:34 +, Bart Martens wrote: I have the following questions about sponsorship. I would like to welcome answers from sponsors and from people maintaining packages via sponsorship. Is it OK that a sponsor adds modifications to a sponsored package ? As a person who maintains packages via sponsors I have to say no. I do not like the sponsor making changes (which in my experience have been quite major) to the package before adding it to the repository, especially when it's done without asking first. If the sponsor has an issue with the package then they should communicate with the maintainer and work with them to fix the issue. Is it OK that a sponsor adds him/herself to Uploaders ? Again I have to say no. It's not just the sponsor adding themselves to the Uploaders, but making themselves co-maintainers and not adding the maintainer key to allow the maintainer to upload themselves. My answers are currently no and no, but there may be different opinions. I agree with your stance and would like to see some formal guidelines or policies related to this. -- Nikolai Lusan niko...@lusan.id.au signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
modifications by sponsors
Hello debian-mentors, I have the following questions about sponsorship. I would like to welcome answers from sponsors and from people maintaining packages via sponsorship. Is it OK that a sponsor adds modifications to a sponsored package ? Is it OK that a sponsor adds him/herself to Uploaders ? My answers are currently no and no, but there may be different opinions. Regards, Bart Martens -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/2012073420.gd23...@master.debian.org
Re: modifications by sponsors
Am 11.07.2012 13:34, schrieb Bart Martens: Hello debian-mentors, I have the following questions about sponsorship. I would like to welcome answers from sponsors and from people maintaining packages via sponsorship. Is it OK that a sponsor adds modifications to a sponsored package ? Sometimes it needs much time to sent back the package, just because of little faults, but it is wrong to add your own modifactions, since the next time you may have the same error again in debian/ (maintainer e.g. forget to add your patch to the CVS) Is it OK that a sponsor adds him/herself to Uploaders ? As long as he isn't one of the maintainers: no If he wants to be aware of new bugs, he also could subscribe himself to the package using the PTS My answers are currently no and no, but there may be different opinions. ACK -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4ffd65f1.3070...@debian.org
Re: modifications by sponsors
Hi, On 11.07.2012 13:34, Bart Martens wrote: Is it OK that a sponsor adds modifications to a sponsored package ? I see it regularly that sponsors do little modifications of packages before uploading them. They may fix spelling errors, fix formatting, do cosmetic fixes and so on before uploading a package. Typically they do so to save both parties some time, as they would like to avoid the usual ping-pong game which goes like if you fix X, Y, Z I will upload your package, wait for a response and a new package and start looking again. Instead they just do such minor changes, upload and send the sponsored people a debdiff/git patch or whatever. Typically they do not add such changes to debian/changelog though and I think that's all fine. Is it OK that a sponsor adds him/herself to Uploaders ? That depends. Personally I did not have a reason to do so, but I know some people do. While I think it is clearly the wrong thing to add yourself to uploaders _just_ for sponsoring a package, there are cases where it makes sense. Imagine you are sponsoring a package because you are personally interested to use it. Chances are you might find yourself to find some bugs or other issues with it you would like to _fix_ yourself. Then it makes sense that you are in Uploaders as well and you eventually form a packaging team with your sponsoree. -- with kind regards, Arno Töll IRC: daemonkeeper on Freenode/OFTC GnuPG Key-ID: 0x9D80F36D signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: modifications by sponsors
Bart Martens ba...@debian.org writes: Is it OK that a sponsor adds modifications to a sponsored package ? Under certain conditions, it can be ok. An OK from the sponsoree is one such condition. Is it OK that a sponsor adds him/herself to Uploaders ? Again, with the sponsoree's agreement, and if the sponsor will act accordingly in the future, then yes. Otherwise no. -- |8] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87a9z6y0lz.fsf@algernon.balabit
Re: modifications by sponsors
Hi, On 2012-07-11 11:34, Bart Martens wrote: I have the following questions about sponsorship. I would like to welcome answers from sponsors and from people maintaining packages via sponsorship. Is it OK that a sponsor adds modifications to a sponsored package ? Is it OK that a sponsor adds him/herself to Uploaders ? My answers are currently no and no, but there may be different opinions. My answers are no, never and no unless sponsor maintains the package. -- Eugene V. Lyubimkin aka JackYF, JID: jackyf.devel(maildog)gmail.com C++ GNU/Linux developer, Debian Developer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120711144626.GA7554@r500-debian
Re: modifications by sponsors
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Arno Töll a...@debian.org wrote: Hi, On 11.07.2012 13:34, Bart Martens wrote: Is it OK that a sponsor adds modifications to a sponsored package ? I see it regularly that sponsors do little modifications of packages before uploading them. They may fix spelling errors, fix formatting, do cosmetic fixes and so on before uploading a package. Typically they do so to save both parties some time, as they would like to avoid the usual ping-pong game which goes like if you fix X, Y, Z I will upload your package, wait for a response and a new package and start looking again. Instead they just do such minor changes, upload and send the sponsored people a debdiff/git patch or whatever. Typically they do not add such changes to debian/changelog though and I think that's all fine. Just for comparison, in Ubuntu this is common practice especially for when sponsoring very new contributors. Of course, for better or worse, the concept of strong individual maintainership doesn't apply there and this is generally when patching an existing package not adding a new package to the archive. Personally, I feel that when adding a new package to the archive it can actually be very useful to make the contributor jump through all the hoops so they understand the level of responsibly involved with becoming a package maintainer. If you're sponsoring say a NMU RC bug fix, and there is some minor issue (like perhaps unnecessarily bumping the standards version or a typo in the changelog), I'd say go ahead make the change, upload, and then describe exactly why you had to do what you did so the contributor will know next time. Thanks! -- Andrew Starr-Bochicchio Ubuntu Developer https://launchpad.net/~andrewsomething Debian Maintainer http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=a.starr.b%40gmail.com PGP/GPG Key ID: D53FDCB1 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAL6k_AxKdrqMET0iLbGSaLZUgT0QfhxARtmmstGym8V=orn...@mail.gmail.com
Re: modifications by sponsors
On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Andrew Starr-Bochicchio wrote: On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Arno Töll wrote: Hi, On 11.07.2012 13:34, Bart Martens wrote: Is it OK that a sponsor adds modifications to a sponsored package ? I see it regularly that sponsors do little modifications of packages before uploading them. They may fix spelling errors, fix formatting, do cosmetic fixes and so on before uploading a package. Typically they do so to save both parties some time, as they would like to avoid the usual ping-pong game which goes like if you fix X, Y, Z I will upload your package, wait for a response and a new package and start looking again. Instead they just do such minor changes, upload and send the sponsored people a debdiff/git patch or whatever. Typically they do not add such changes to debian/changelog though and I think that's all fine. Just for comparison, in Ubuntu this is common practice especially for when sponsoring very new contributors. Of course, for better or worse, the concept of strong individual maintainership doesn't apply there and this is generally when patching an existing package not adding a new package to the archive. Personally, I feel that when adding a new package to the archive it can actually be very useful to make the contributor jump through all the hoops so they understand the level of responsibly involved with becoming a package maintainer. If you're sponsoring say a NMU RC bug fix, and there is some minor issue (like perhaps unnecessarily bumping the standards version or a typo in the changelog), I'd say go ahead make the change, upload, and then describe exactly why you had to do what you did so the contributor will know next time. I also opine that sponsor contributions are a net positive. It reduces time and (mis)communication issues. The sponsoree may learn by observing the sponsor's approach to changes. And finally, and most importantly in my opinion, is that it injects more collaboration in the process. Strong package maintainership is on the decline, so the same should be expect through the sponsorship process as well. A collaboration between the sponsor and sponsoree is simply far more ideal than a drive-by-and-forget process. Best wishes, Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CANTw=MPexFB=jjv3jy1_6fjnrekjye_xytr600xdxzhjuuc...@mail.gmail.com
Re: modifications by sponsors
Andrew Starr-Bochicchio a.star...@gmail.com writes: Personally, I feel that when adding a new package to the archive it can actually be very useful to make the contributor jump through all the hoops so they understand the level of responsibly involved with becoming a package maintainer. If you're sponsoring say a NMU RC bug fix, and there is some minor issue (like perhaps unnecessarily bumping the standards version or a typo in the changelog), I'd say go ahead make the change, upload, and then describe exactly why you had to do what you did so the contributor will know next time. I've always taken the time to ask the sponsee first if making the change is okay. Usually people don't mind, and it rarely takes much time to get a response, so it's not much of a delay. I don't know that it's necessarily *required*, but it felt to me like a simple and meaningful courtesy. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87ipdtltpr@windlord.stanford.edu
