Re: Better visibility of what can you do with Debian on the Debian main page
On Thursday 14 April 2011 23.37:16 Steffen Möller wrote: On 04/14/2011 11:28 PM, Andreas Tille wrote: On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 09:54:40AM -0700, Noah Meyerhans wrote: I think a case could be made for Debian's apt system being the original app store Yes. That's what I wanted to say in my previous mail! And because there was a mail about not accepting the term app store because repository is such a good name: I have no idea whether [...] How about Free App Store ? And what is wrong with just plain Applications? I think the whole app store thing is blown out of proportion by the marketing teams of a few companies, we do not need to join he hype on this. We offer an OS, and (my original point) we also offer applications in the same bundle. And the joke is that the user doesn't even need to download them separately from some web page, but they're bundled with the OS (meaning: either they're on the DVD with the OS, or the installation is integrated with the usual OS tools.) *That* is the story we should try to get across: you don't need to visit some app store place or whatever, but after you installed Debian, you already got all the tools you need. Python's Batteries included idea, really. cheers -- vbi -- Today is Setting Orange, the 32nd day of Discord in the YOLD 3177 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Better visibility of what can you do with Debian on the Debian main page
Yodel! (I'm obviously picking up on the discussion sparked by the Med@Tel report/ blends on the main page thread) I had a quick look at the kde.org and gnome.org pages. I think the blends on main page is a sub-topic of what can you do after you've installed Debian. On both the gnome.org and the kde.org pages, besides the what is and how to get info, there is a prominent applications section. Note that (as with Debian's many packages) this is stuff that is not part of the core KDE / GNOME distributions, but is stuff that you can do after you've got a desktop. I think that debian.org misses this kind of information completely. We explain that Debian is an OS, and that it has packages (but to a non- techie, that is an empty word), and distrib/packages (where it points to) also is a quite technical description. Read more points to intro/about, leaving the packages topic completely. Linking to blends and/or subprojects would be addressing target groups, which would probably be useful. My proposal (which is orthogonal) is linking to applications, just to show that Debian is not just an operating system as defined on our title page (set of basic programs and utilities that make your computer run.) * a new page, prominently listing the top applications (tbd - but the target group is the average user, so this would probably include stuff like libreoffice, iceweasel, apache/php/mysql and other web stuff etc.; then mention kde and gnome and perhaps point to their application pages, and possibly include a more stuff link, pointing to a package db browsable by debtags/categories (does this already exist? Offline right now, can't check.) * obviously needs to link to how can I install this stuff information * should not be a wall of text like so many of our pages are. all the applications I've mentioned above have a logo... * needs to be linked from the short section on packages which is on the title page. (replaces the packages link; the read more link could perhaps point to distrib/packages; intro/about feels irrelevant in that paragraph.) Should I do a draft of such an applications page? Let's not get into fights on which application should be listed (yet) - we can always make it a dynamic page and list a random selection of applications... :-) Again: maybe we also could/should link to subprojects/blends/... that address specific target user groups - it's just a thought I had after reading that discussion. cheers -- vbi -- featured link: http://www.pool.ntp.org signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: DELL
Hi Mahitha, I'm personally very happy to see you as a representative from a manufacturer care enough about Debian to look up an official mail address and ask. On Thursday 31 March 2011 16.23:55 mahith...@dell.com wrote: We just wanted to confirm if , Debian 6 works fine with PERC H 700 controller cards. You already got the short answer from Henrique de Moraes Holschuh already - our kernel is a variant of the official 2.6.32 kernel, the modifications are quite minor. But I'd like to address a larger issue here: since there seems to be demand by customers (I guess that's why you ask) to run Debian on Dell hardware, maybe it's time to ramp up Linux support from your company's side? I see that there is a http://linux.dell.com/ web site, but on first clance this is focused on running Ubuntu on Laptops and Desktops; some of the links point to consumer products. Not the audience you're addressing with a PERC controller. Also, the quote below is directly from your support forum and indicates that Dell's Linux related support offerings are not as good as expected in some cases: http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/software-os/w/linux/consumer- linux.aspx : +++ Dell sells [Ubuntu Linux] 10.04 presinstalled on their Vostro line, but good luck getting any help whatsoever on it. +++ Please do not hesitate to ask if you need further assistance. Note that Debian as such is a volunteer driven organisation, so nobody is required to help you (for free!) Should you wish to put your customers into contact with Debian engineers on a professional basis, have a look at our list of support companies at http://debian.org/consultants Regards Adrian von Bidder Debian Developer signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Registration of Debian Logo unrelated to Debian
Hi, On Friday 25 March 2011 14.43:32 [-R.I.P.-] - Макс wrote: Hello! You logo use without link! http://tm.patent.su/40-400999/tm/servl/servlete1dc.html loock this. it's pattent! Thank you for notifying us. I don't speak russian well, so I hope somebody else can translate what this page says. кондитерские изделия, а именно конфеты, печенье, пирожные, зефир, лукум, торты, изделия кондитерские желеобразные, халва. is, according to Google, confectionery, namely candies, biscuits, cakes, marshmallows, Turkish delight, cakes, jelly confectionery, halva. so I don't think this is anything we should worry about on a first glance. cheers -- vbi -- How [Debian developers] maintain their sanity is beyond me. Who says we do? ;) -- Bob Tracy / Julien Cristau http://lists.debian.org/debian-alpha/2009/10/msg00026.html signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Italian dealer
Hi, On Friday 04 March 2011 17.01:31 Paolo Repossi wrote: I wanted to know if and how it could be mentioned on your website under get a pc with debian We already offer support linux / debian to some of our customers. Great to hear from shops that sell Debian preinstalled! You can get (a little) free advertising by getting listed on the consultants page: http://www.debian.org/consultants/ Information on how to get listed are on http://www.debian.org/consultants/info greetings -- vbi -- there was a poetic infection which distorted the kernel's direction the code got no time as they all tried to rhyme and it shipped needing lots of correction -- Rusty Russell signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: What's the release plan in next 6 or 12 months?
On Friday 11 February 2011 06.58:29 Zongliang Li wrote: Hi, Debian 6.0.x(x=1)? Are there any planned date for any Debian versions? Don't know about Debian 5, but Debian 6.0.1 was already announced: expect it in ca. 1 month. greetings Adrian -- what is the process? Do we vote, do we pray or do we send bribes? -- Ian Grigg, trying to get a new OpenPGP RFC out signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re:
Hi, On Tuesday 25 January 2011 10.13:22 ktauhidu wrote: Good day! I have a laptop Acer Aspire 5520g on it does not work the microphone. Tell me how to fix the problem. Installed debian 2.22.2 build 18/09/2008 Besides the debian-u...@lists.debian.org address, you may also be interested to know that there are many email lists for non-english speakers, see https://lists.debian.org/users.html (Note that for some, the list is debian-user-//language//@lists.debian.org, while for othes it's debian-//language//@lists.debian.org) You may find it easier to get support in your native language. greetings Adrian von Bidder -- There’s a big confusion in the terms, as the numbers used in Arabic are the Hindu numbers and the numbers used in Latin languages are the Arabic numbers. -- Lior Kaplan, 1.4.2008 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Squirrelmail package availability question
On Thursday 20 January 2011 22.50:03 Thijs Kinkhorst wrote: In this specific case, there has been a concern in the past that making a package for really small things, like a plugin that's just one short file, would be overkill. But if you ask me, there's always some way to deal with such concerns, One solution would be, for example, a squirrelmail-plugins package that would collect popular plugins, so the a package for one file problem is avoided. But like Thijs said: somebody needs to do it. cheers -- vbi -- Muße und Wohlleben sind unerläßliche Voraussetzungen aller Kultur. -- Max Frisch signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Google AdSense for Debian
Heyho! On Wednesday 17 February 2010 13.00:55 Kartik Mistry wrote: On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 2:45 PM, Mike Hommey m...@glandium.org wrote: On Thu, Feb 04, 2010 at 08:39:28AM +0100, Adrian von Bidder wrote: I've been sent a voucher for 125.-- worth of Google Ads. How should I use it? I have a 75€ voucher for Google Adwords, too. ~ Same. 2500 INR worth of Google Adwords. But, I found that: https://adwords.google.com/select/AfpoFinder Each individual account need to pay processing fees. And, I'm not sure that - if they allow all 'Promo Code' in single account. Damn. Had not read the fine print, so haven't seen this. Processing fee and only one voucher per account (voucher can be entered within 14 days of account creation if I read this correctly.) Doesn't seem worth it, then. cheers -- vbi -- Valentine's Day is the one holiday when everyone is expected to do something romantic for their spouse or lover -- and if someone has both, it's a serious problem. ... planning a 'business trip' that falls over Valentine's Day is a typical mistake cheaters make. ... So now I'm wondering why the RSA Conference is being held over Valentine's Day. -- Bruce Schneier quoting the Wall Street Journal signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Google AdSense for Debian
On Thursday 04 February 2010 01.43:23 Paul Wise wrote: [...] I'd like to suggest this thread be moved to debian-project to get some input from a larger part of Debian. Ok. Here's what this is about: +++ I've been sent a voucher for 125.-- worth of Google Ads. How should I use it? I'll need * a title (2 or 3 words perhaps) * a text (5 to 10 words) * what URL to point to * Keywords when the ad should show. Obviously the entries should be to promote Debian, so the URL is probably a sub-page/domain of debian.org. I'll be the jury (it's my voucher, right?) and will pick the entry/entries I like best from what is posted on this mailing list. I will (try to) read the discussion around the weekend in two weeks (13.2.) and then decide what to do. I'll announce results here, too. +++ cheers -- vbi -- Today is Setting Orange, the 35th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3176 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Google AdSense for Debian
On Thursday 04 February 2010 11.29:47 Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Thu, Feb 04, 2010 at 08:39:28AM +0100, Adrian von Bidder wrote: On Thursday 04 February 2010 01.43:23 Paul Wise wrote: [...] I'd like to suggest this thread be moved to debian-project to get some input from a larger part of Debian. I've a voucher too, and I'd be happy to offer it for Debian promotion. Regarding the -project discussion, it seems to me that we still need the information that Adrian asked, and the main outcome of the discussion should be that information, then individual DDs can uniformly use them (or not: it is their individual decision, at last). Let me try to provide some of that info. I'll need * a title (2 or 3 words perhaps) The Debian operating system * a text (5 to 10 words) I believe -publicity would be the best list to suggest something :-), or maybe pr...@d.o (added in Cc). Still, if I were gunpointed to suggest something, I would go for something along the line of: Debian: building the best free operating system since 1993 Join Debian, the best free operating system * what URL to point to These are from the official website: - http://www.debian.org/intro/help - http://www.debian.org/devel/join/ However, I happen to remember that there was a similar page on the wiki, a bit more up to date, but I can't find one, is my memory b0rken? * Keywords when the ad should show. ... ubuntu (?) I won't do that. Fueling this debate is unnecessary. Now entering Windows is something different. OTOH that'd certainly be lawyer fodder and I'd possibly lose the Google account (not that I do much with it anyway.) I was thinking about trying to address people who are looking into buy a new computer. One of the goals of advertising is to make people aware of a name that didn't know it before, after all. cheers -- vbi -- Ich würde mich freuen, wenn das in die nächste stabile Version kommt. Wofür denkst Du habe ich es programmiert ;-) -- Ralf Becker signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Info needed for online research project
On Sunday 15 July 2007 18.08:01 Balu V wrote: But its not a problem though! I would still like to know more about Debian, because after graduation, I want to work mainly in the open source industry. Reading your questions below, it seems to me that you do not yet know what Free Software / Open Source is about. Answering your specific questions: About publicity, I'm curious as to how you guys let people know that so and so Debian products are available, Debian has a mailing list (debian-announce) that is ultimately the official source where new releases of the Debian GNU/Linux system are announced. and are much better than corporate stuff? Debian (the project, as organised under the vague umbrella of SPI and lead by the Debian Project Leader) does not have a policy of comparing Debian with other products or projects. You will find any number of comparisons (by various criteria and of wildly different quality), but they are written by third parties. Where do you mainly get the funding from for the publicity? The Debian project gets funding mostly from donations, but as far as I know no project money is being spent on publicity. The closest you could come is that some money may be spent occasionally to faciliate setting up booths at exhibitions and getting people and stuff there, but mostly exhibitions offer booths for free to Free Software project. (Others may correct me here, though.) And which media (or medium) are the main source (internet, tv etc.) of advertizing Debian products? The Debian project does not advertise. There is the main website, but its main purpose is not advertising Debian, but offering useful information. Also, I'm curious as to how open source survives even after most of its products being free of cost? This question demonstrates, to me, that you seem to not yet understand how Free Software works. I suggest that you read up about it some more, for example: * http://www.gnu.org/gnu/manifesto.html * http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/ * any good Book on the history of Unix * http://opensource.org/ (in particular http://opensource.org/docs/osd) * some of the links in this google query may be helpful: http://www.google.com/search?q=why+does+opensource+work Debian specific: * http://www.debian.org/intro/free * http://www.debian.org/social_contract It's very important to know that all of these links (and this is especially true for the first two, although they are sometimes called foundataion documents of the Free Software/Open Source movement) are just opinions or perceptions of their authors. But better than all reading: go to the nearest Linux / open-source event taking place near you, and talk to people. I hope this sheds some light on your questions greetings Adrian -- Could this mail be a fake? (Answer: No! - http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/intro) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: looking to buy an ad on packages.debian.org
Hi Megan, On Tuesday 24 April 2007 16.17:52 Megan Farnum wrote: id like to buy an ad for a company that sells barcode scanners. i was thinking about placing the ad on your barcode package page: As David already said: the debian.org web pages are not for sale. But here's a deal for you: You check that your barcode scanners work with Linux (shouldn't be too hard - most barcode scanners behave just like keyboards. Should take a Linux software engineer not more than a day to check and also write a very short example code). Then you take the Debian logo from http://www.debian.org/logos/ (the swirl, without the bottle) and place it on your web site, and you can put out a press release that your Devices support Debian GNU/Linux. As you can see on your logos web page, you can freely use our Logo to refer to the Debian project. There are some lists of Linux compatible hardware on the web, I guess you can add your device to those lists, too (always provided that they work.) (One such list is http://www.linuxcompatible.org/, haven't looked but I assume there are some others.) greetings -- vbi -- Wie man sein Kind nicht nennen sollte: Rod Kraut pgp1iE4sEeahr.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Graphic Design Work
On Wednesday 18 April 2007 15.34:55 James Herrington wrote: I'm new to this list so i apologise if i am asking this in the wrong place. I am a young graphic/web designer looking to gain some high profile experience for my portfolio. As Lars said, the web site is really in need of a thorough overhaul. The big question is: do you have sufficient interest in the Debian project as such (and not only as a vehicle to get a good entry for your portfolio) to carry this through? If yes: Please, please, please do it. To start: * there have been one or two people who already talked about a website overhaul, I remember there was a recording of a meeting (I didn't attend) at the last Debconf, you'll find that online at http://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/2006/debconf6/theora-small/2006-05-20/hacklab/www_debian_org_redesign-Agnieszka_Czajkowska.ogg; I think there were some others also trying to start a www.debian.org redesign. * You should obviously get an overview of the content of the current Debian web universe. This is, in my humble opinion, not only www.debian.org, but numerous web sites on other domains on debian.org, debian.net and sometimes also on Developers private domains: a lot of information is provided by scripts created by some developer in the past and is hosted outside www.debian.org for historical and/or administrative reasons, but if you're going to redesign the site, by all means think about which services are important enough to be integrated with a new web site. * Lars also summarized a lot of what you'll face. I guess if you go to the debian-www mailing list only after you really decided to tackle the problem and have already some basic knowledge about how the web site is organised at present, but with an open mind about the future design, you might have a chance for success. How much time are you willing to invest? It will take months to just get started is my guess. cheers -- vbi -- Could this mail be a fake? (Answer: No! - http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/intro) pgpoV4TpeWU2s.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian 4.0 finally arrives... does anyone care?
On Friday 13 April 2007 09:54, Philippe Cloutier wrote: [paraphrasing the article I linked to] It's stupid that Debian renames Mozilla applications. Yes, it is. Sure, let's drop the DFSG for lenny. Seriously: it is very stupid that the licensing/trademark situation lead Debian to rebrand the Mozilla applications. We're telling people that they can/should use Debian, and 5 minutes later I have to explain why we don't have mozilla - not a good first user impression, and anybody who is not interested in legal issues won't understand our reasons. I understand the reason why it was done, and it would certainly be great if the Mozilla foundation had a sane Trademark license, but in the mean time I would very much like if people remembered the G in DFSG a bit more often. EOD from my side for now on this issue, it's been killed at least 5 tmes already a long time ago. cheers -- vbi -- Could this mail be a fake? (Answer: No! - http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/intro) pgp5OCknBJRCQ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Debian 4.0 finally arrives... does anyone care?
Yo! http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS5673962628.html Merely somebody who likes Fedora and (Open)SuSE better than Debian, or somebody who has a realistic view of the world? While I'm personally happy to use etch, I might be a bit biased... (There are many news items more or less just quoting the release announcement, there are some that are very positive, but I think where we learn is how people *don't* like the release, that's why I'm posting this here. Note that this is not an attack against the kernel or X people, I know they did a huge job.) cheers -- vbi -- featured product: Debian GNU/Linux - http://debian.org pgp43jnov9j4Y.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: ideas....
On Friday 06 April 2007 21.43:09 John Watson wrote: I would suggest having two releases of Debian, one really stable which could be released every 2 years, another one stable released every 6 months by taking a freeze of the current testing distro and spending a month (no more) fixing any major bugs. Many people are using testing or a mix of stable and testing for desktop use and have found that very good. For bigger deployments and other more sensitive areas, stable is great - I don't want to fiddle around with my fai setup every 6 months even if it means I run Oo.org 2 while 2.1 is already out etc. 1.5 to 2 years is a reasonable timeframe in a commercial surrounding, the major problem Debian needs to solve in that area is support of new hardware, like SATA. 2)One real issue with Debian is a lack of admin tools, (such as yast is for SuSE). Considering starting a project to develop a range of gui based admin tools for Debian. Please don't start yet another project. There's webmin, there's the YaST for Debian project and I believe there were some others, too. And then there is the idea of building up debconf into a full admin tool. I set up a SLES10 server a few months ago, see http://fortytwo.ch/blog/archives/2006/10/#e2006-10-30T14_22_18.txt for a few comments. To reiterate again here: any configuration tool that modifies configuration files, especially at unexpected times like from an init script (gaah! That's really a traumatic experience.) is evil to some degree. A full config file parser that also preserves comments is much harder to do, but after all Debian has no marketing department saying that this config tool mus be finished in two weeks ... [money] As the past year has proved, money is a difficult topic in a volunteer organisation. Would I want Debian to accept a 10 million dollar donation? Probably not. What would I do if I had 10 million dollars to spend on Debian? I guess the wisest course would be to hire some people and get them to improve Debian so that it does exactly what I want. Added bonus if they can get the improvements integrated in Debian. If it's just 10 millions, that would be probably 3 to 5 people, and if I could resist the temptation to try to force those people into prominent roles within Debian it might even work out in a much improved distribution without too much controversy, and without touching onto some fundamental values of the project (that people are sometimes paid for Debian work is a very old fact, so that part of this idea should work out fine.) Now somebody get me that money :-) cheers -- vbi -- featured link: http://fortytwo.ch/smtp pgpMB8FnrtJzi.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: SGI Altix 350/3700 - 450/4700
On Friday 09 March 2007 19.34:30 Anibal Abdulkhalek wrote: I wanted to know if you had any experience installing Debian on SGI Altix systems specifically the 350/3700 and 450/4700 product line based on Montecito (Itanium2). I information on the web about this but I wanted to know directly what was your official response. Hi, Debian is a volunteer project, and we also don't carry lists of officially supported hardware. SGI Altix: is this an intel based system or a MIPS based system? For the first, you'd best ask at the debian-user mailing list for experiences, if it's a MIPS machine, the mips porters mailing list might help you (ttp://lists.debian.org/debian-mips/) Also what kind of support agreement could be reached with you in case a customer would require such config. Debian as an organisation doesn't do support agreements, but a number of companies or individual developers do. Please contact one of them directly, there is a list at http://www.debian.org/consultants/. Greetings Adrian von Bidder -- Computers follow your orders, not your intentions. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates
On Saturday 30 December 2006 14:34, Ryan Murray wrote: The LDAP schema has been updated to include several new fields: * Mail disable message * Mail greylisting * Mail sender verification callouts * Mail whitelist * Mail RBL list * Mail RHSBL list Now THAT is a nice christmas present! Thanks a LOT to all who were involved. cheers -- vbi -- Could this mail be a fake? (Answer: No! - http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/intro) pgpPdp5SOHnes.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: db.debian.org (and related infrastructure) updates
Yo again! Web frontend is not, contrary to the announcement, updated yet for whitelist, rbl, rhbl :-( And the mail frontend doesn't like my emails (probably either it doesn't like subkey signatures or it doesn't like PGP/MIME). I could add the fields with ldapmodify though, so I assume they do work. Again, thanks. On Saturday 30 December 2006 14:34, Ryan Murray wrote: * Mail RHSBL list Is this tested against the client hostname or against the envelope sender or both? (postfix has reject_rhsbl_sender and reject_rhsbl_client, I don't know exim at all.) cheers -- vbi -- Das liegt aber nicht an Gimp, sondern am Huhn. ;) -- Klaus Knopper pgpxT6EhogVnU.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: debian logo on commercial of the big mobilephones shops network
On Sunday 26 November 2006 12:30, Evgeniy Ivanov wrote: [quote] I don't see how some russian company using some swirl for advertising endangers the freedom of Debian. [/quote] They are big and has enough money to create new logo, but not to use Debian logo for their needs. This time they use swirl, tomorrow they would make advertisment with tux... Some days after people would think, that Debian is a part of these shops (their intelligent property!). Again, what others have already said: it is not the Debian swirl. It is very likely that whoever created this swirl has not even heard about Debian. The Debian swirl was created with a few - apparently very obvious - steps in a popular graphics package (which one?), starting with a default brush stroke. So anybody owning this particular graphics package can easily create a similar logo. Both brush strokes and swirls are not that uncommon... This was discussed in the past already. Time for a more unique logo? OTOH I quite like the swirl. And then there are the tattooed people who probably would like the logo to stay the same for another few years... cheers -- vbi -- Ich zitiere mich oft selbst. Das würzt meine Unterhaltung. -- George Bernard Shaw pgpxQGZ7Appj7.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Hardwareunterstützung
Hi Dirk, Most Debian mailing lists are english-oriented, please respect this. There are some german lists, such as debian-user-de. Please note, too, that the -project list is not really the correct list to talk about such issues. debian-user would probabyl be better. On Tuesday 28 November 2006 16:32, Kuebeler, Dirk (StarCom-Bauer GmbH) wrote: wir benötigen für einen großen Kunden von uns, welcher Debian Linux bereits einsetzt ein Board für Sockel 775. I don't think a general hardware compatibility list for Debian is available. (And owing to the extremely short product cycles I'm not sure it's even feasible) Currently, the situation is: * on most modern hardware, Debian 3.1 (sarge) won't install with the default installer because of the IDE hardware. SCSI might be fine. Graphics cards will also be a major pain. * on most modern hardware Debian 4.0 (etch) which is now in preparation (current expected release date is around the end of the year, personally I guess it will be something like end of January) will install and run just fine. Accelerated graphics is still a problem without using proprietary drivers for Nvidia and ATI cards. I hope this helps you Greetings -- vbi -- featured product: vim - http://vim.org pgpoDMTVoCu2w.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Custom Debian Distribution for creative artists and wannabes
On Friday 17 November 2006 06:47, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm interested in creating a Custom Debian Distribution for creative artists I think Agnula/DeMuDi might be a starting point for you - have you looked at their project? http://www.agnula.org/ The project seems to be a bit dormant at the moment (no news since 2005), but at least somebody has edited the Wiki at http://demudi.agnula.org/ as recently as October this year so it's not entirely dead. cheers -- vbi -- If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce today would cost $100, get a million miles to the gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside. pgpTbMeh4pgeF.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: uses for efficient computation in various corners of debian?
On Monday 30 October 2006 14:31, sean finney wrote: - anything remotely resembling a graph theory problem (pkg deps? bts?) I guess conflict resolution in the pkg deps graph, respecting /etc/apt/preferences *and* the user's wishes would be worth a try. aptitude's algorithm is good, but has one silly bug: when I want to install a certain (version of a certain) package foo and there are some kinds of conflict, aptitude often tells me that there are conflicts, and the typical proposed solution is not to install foo. (same for upgrade/uninstall/downgrade of foo) Also I would prefer the algorithm to try harder to satisfy dependencies by upgrading (or perhaps even downgrading) packages instead of by uninstalling them. Yes, I do mix oldstable/stable/testing/unstable + backports + volatile in a quite aggressive way, and because I usually know what I'm doing (and because the dependencies as such are really quite good), I rarely break my system. Nonetheless, installing app-from-sid-with-many-deps is much harder than it ought to be and means a 10-minute session in aptitude, mostly hitting +, b, h, enter and q in some random order. - introducing new and non-trivial algorithms in bottlenecks anywhere in the project architecture (vague, i know) Interested in sociology? How about statistics? cluster analysis of mailing list debates, identifying all the various groups of people in the project and how they shifted over time, use mailing list archives as input. That'd be fun to read, and would certainly spark at least 6 months worth of flamewars rehashing all the old flamewars that caused and killed those groups. Acutal benefit to the project: close to zero, I know. cheers good luck -- vbi -- featured link: http://fortytwo.ch/smtp pgpQEgU19Rm4W.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Fw: Kurdish Linux debian
On Wednesday 13 September 2006 02:23, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ich schreibe im Namen einer Gruppe kurdischer sprechender Computerbenutzer, um Sie zu bitten, uns zu ermöglichen, Ihre Software-Produkte auf unserer eigenen Sprache zu benutzen. Tries to demand that we translate our Software to the Kurdish language, but apparently has no idea about Linux and Free Software. I'm trying to get a discussion started with him - if he's serious he might have interest in getting a kurdish translation team started. cheers -- vbi -- Es gibt keine Lauer auf der ich nicht liege. pgpbYmsRX7K9S.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Branding for Debian derivatives
On Tuesday 05 September 2006 10:11, Anthony Towns wrote: 2) Debian rolls out the red carpet for Foo Linux 2.a) http://henning.makholm.net/debian/debianbased.png I like the carpet metaphor. (... and I never liked the bottle) Less whitespace in the logo: http://fortytwo.ch/~avbidder/based-on-debian/ (Font is Steve Italic, btw. I guess it's in a package somewhere as I don't recall installing any non-packaged fonts on this machine.) Could use some further work, certainly - not sure about the font, and the swirl-to-carpet transition is not so smooth. cheers -- vbi -- Could this mail be a fake? (Answer: No! - http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/intro) pgpCWtkG32Scj.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: New website layout / design contest?
Paul Belanger wrote: [ Debian web site is not really good ] On Tuesday 05 September 2006 14:23, George Danchev wrote: Seems like this website issue has already been addressed: (note: url is intentionally wrapped) http://ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/debian-meetings/2006/debconf6/theora-small/ 2006-05-20/hacklab/www_debian_org_redesign-Agnieszka_Czajkowska.ogg Is being addressed is probably the better word... Hmm. A very very quick look at the debian-www archive seems to indicate that Agnieszka Czajkowska did not post to this list since Debconf. Just wondering. Paul: if you're interested in helping out, I propose you talk with Agnieszka Czajkowska - two people working on one project is better than two people independently working on the problem... (I don't know her email, though I'm sure somebody must have got it at debconf. Using google, I'd guess that http://www.czajkowska.pl/ is probably not her, but agnieszka () imagegalaxy ! de might help you.) cheers -- vbi -- featured product: the GNU Compiler Collection - http://gcc.gnu.org pgpUneECzqywZ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: dialectic
On Sunday 27 August 2006 00:06, catharsis wrote: W a t c h o u t! (same spam on 20 Deian lists) Isn't crossassassin supposed to catch these? cheers -- vbi -- Weiber behalten eigne Geheimnisse, Männer fremde. -- Jean Paul pgpRlVvMcJ4mx.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Constitutional Amendment GR: Handling assets for the project
2nd'd, also with Don's amendments. Note that the 'in consultation' bit is still in - it could be still clearer that the DPL may on his own take the decisions. But it's improved over the prev. version. cheers -- vbi On Tuesday 22 August 2006 18:46, Manoj Srivastava wrote: 4. The Developers by way of General Resolution or election 4.1. Powers Together, the Developers may: - 3. Override any decision by the Project Leader or a Delegate. - 4. Override any decision by the Technical Committee, provided they - agree with a 2:1 majority. - 6. Together with the Project Leader and SPI, make decisions about - property held in trust for purposes related to Debian. (See §9.1.) 4. The Developers by way of General Resolution or election 4.1. Powers Together, the Developers may: + 3. Make or override any decision authorised by the powers of the Project + Leader or a Delegate. + 4. Make or override any decision authorised by the powers of the Technical + Committee, provided they agree with a 2:1 majority. + 6. Make decisions about property held in trust for purposes + related to Debian. (See §9.). + 7. In case of a disagreement between the project leader and in + the incumbent secretary, appoint a new secretary. - 5. Project Leader 5.1. Powers The Project Leader may: - 10. Together with SPI, make decisions affecting property held in trust - for purposes related to Debian. (See §9.) = == 5. Project Leader 5.1. Powers The Project Leader may: + 10. In consultation with the developers, make decisions affecting + property held in trust for purposes related to Debian. (See + §9.). Such decisions are announced on an electronic mailing + list designated by the Project Leader or their Delegate(s), + which is accessible to all developers. Major expenditures + should be proposed and debated on the mailing list before + funds are disbursed. + 11. Add or remove organizations from the list of trusted + organizations (see §9.3) that are authorized to accept and + hold assets for Debian. The evaluation and discussion leading + up to such a decision occurs on an electronic mailing list + designated by the Project Leader or their Delegate(s), on + which any developer may post. There is a minimum discussion + period of twoo weeks before an organization may be added to + the list of trusted organizations. - -- - -- 7. The Project Secretary 7.2. Appointment If the Project Leader and the current Project Secretary cannot agree - on a new appointment they must ask the board of SPI (see §9.1.) to - appoint a Secretary. = == 7. The Project Secretary 7.2. Appointment If the Project Leader and the current Project Secretary cannot agree + on a new appointment, they must ask the Developers by way of + General Resolution to appoint a Secretary. - -- -9. Software in the Public Interest SPI and Debian are separate organisations who share some goals. Debian - is grateful for the legal support framework offered by SPI. Debian's - Developers are currently members of SPI by virtue of their status as - Developers. - 9.1. Authority - - 1. SPI has no authority regarding Debian's technical or nontechnical - decisions, except that no decision by Debian with respect to any - property held by SPI shall require SPI to act outside its legal - authority, and that Debian's constitution may occasionally use SPI - as a decision body of last resort. - 2. Debian claims no authority over SPI other than that over the use - of certain of SPI's property, as described below, though Debian - Developers may be granted authority within SPI by SPI's rules. - 3. Debian Developers are not agents or employees of SPI, or of each - other or of persons in authority in the Debian Project. A person - acting as a Developer does so as an individual, on their own - behalf. - 9.2. Management of property for purposes related to Debian - Since Debian has no authority to hold money or property, any donations - for the Debian
Re: Constitutional Amendment GR: Handling assets for the project
On Friday 11 August 2006 05:43, Anthony Towns wrote: On Thu, Aug 10, 2006 at 09:00:23PM +0200, Adrian von Bidder wrote: [...] I'd interpret the section to allow the DPL to include this publication as a 'btw, we bought some disks for ...' sidenote in his monthly/bits/for those who care about... reports. My impression was they'd need to be published when they happened, not a month or three later when the next random report came out... Manoj? I don't suppose you're volunteering the be Debian Auditor? :) If Manoj's interpretation of that section indicates the need of such extra bureaucracy, I'm not sure I like that outcome. My focus is purely on the let people know what's going on part. Even if it's just trivial stuff. My reasoning is that if more people would see what Debian's core people (i.e. all those who are regularly targetted in flame wars :^) actually do, there might be less flames. Of course, there would be the odd debate nitpicking that you can get a 300M disk 2.70$ cheaper at some other store, but I guess this would be noise that can be ignored. Re-reading that actual text: +++ 5. Project Leader 5.1. Powers The Project Leader may: + 10. In consultation with the developers, make decisions affecting + property held in trust for purposes related to Debian. (See + §9.). Such decisions are made by announcement on a + publicly-readable electronic mailing list designated by the + Project Leader's Delegate(s); any Developer may post there. +++ Hmm. I see what you mean - the 'in consultation with the developers' part indicates discussion, implying the DPL can not decide to spend money on his own. I did only really see the second part. My bad. I don't really know how the together with SPI part was handled so far, but I can see that it may be a good idea to not just give the DPL the power to spend money. OTOH, even if the DPL can make these decisions on his own, he'd still need to work through the legal entities actually handling the money, so the case of a looney DPL running off with all the money won't happen just so. Proposed text: +++ 5. Project Leader 5.1. Powers The Project Leader may: - 10. Together with SPI, make decisions affecting property held in trust - for purposes related to Debian. (See §9.1.) + 10.1 Make decisions affecting property held in trust for purposes + related to Debian. (See §9.). Such decisions are to be published on + a publicly-readable electronic mailing list designated by the + Project Leader's Delegate(s) no more than a month after the decision + was taken. + 10.2 For decisions affecting the equivalent of more than USD 5000 or 10% + of Debian's net assets (whichever is lower) are to be taken in + consultation with the developers after a discussion period of at + least one week. +++ This should let the DPL work efficiently, without bickering on every dollar spent. Even the bigger decisions (à la 10.2) can be taken by the DPL without the overhead of a vote. My thought is that a DPL who wants to just ignore the outcome of the mandated discussion will bear the costs in terms of, in the worst case, a GR which will dispose him. Let's not cripple the project with bureaucracy. When/If Debian becomes an organisation with a more professional structure and bigger cashflow, we'll need better/more/more complicated mechanisms anyway - I think at the moment we should stay withing the current idea of Debian being a largely volunteer organisation where money is mostly spent on simple things. Comments welcome. Particularly, the numbers are just out of thin air. And also: IANAL, IANANativ English speaker. cheers -- vbi -- Was die Welt in diesem Augenblick sucht, ist viel weniger ein Gleichgewicht als eine Sprache. -- Jean Giraudoux pgpsolpBsQXV6.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Constitutional Amendment GR: Handling assets for the project
On Friday 21 July 2006 17:54, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:18:44 +0200, Bas Zoetekouw [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I don't think it makes sense that the Debian constitution determines who can become a member of SPI. That is something that should be (and probably is) described in SPI's bylaws. This is true. There seems no reason to mention this in the constitution, since an action by the SPI board can change that, and the constitution amendment would be required to marry the constitution with reality. What would the seconders feel about deleting this sentence from the proposed draft? Yep, makes sense. Seconded as thus amended, with the editorial change proposed by vorlon as well (Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) Btw, I agree with ajt that the discussion period should be kept open until SPI board election is over. There's no need to wait for a statement of SPI (you say, correctly, that they don't have any official role in this process), but giving the newly elected board a week to comment if they like would be nice. cheers -- vbi -- Single tasking: Just Say No. pgp5cB1tZzJAQ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Constitutional Amendment GR: Handling assets for the project
On Saturday 22 July 2006 01:05, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Here is the latest draft of the proposal. [...] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Seconded. Nitpicking: move this space character +6. Together with the Project Leader make decisions about ^ to here: to be ownedby any of a number of organisations as detailed in + §9.2 ^ cheers -- vbi -- Der Schnupfen Ein Schnupfen hockt auf der Terasse, auf daß er sich ein Opfer fasse - und stürzt alsbald mit großem Grimm auf einen Menschen namens Schrimm. Paul Schrimm erwidert prompt: Pitschü! und hat ihn drauf bis Montag früh. -- Christian Morgenstern pgpt3fgL8pbxy.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Constitutional Amendment GR: Handling assets for the project
On Friday 21 July 2006 03:12, Manoj Srivastava wrote: 4. The Developers by way of General Resolution or election 4.1. Powers Together, the Developers may: -6. Together with the Project Leader and SPI, make decisions about - property held in trust for purposes related to Debian. (See §9.1.) 4. The Developers by way of General Resolution or election 4.1. Powers Together, the Developers may: +6. Together with the Project Leader make decisions about + property held in trust for purposes related to Debian. (See + §9.). Such decisions are made by announcement on a + electronic mailing list designated by the Project Leader + or their Delegate(s), which is accessible to all developers. - 5. Project Leader 5.1. Powers The Project Leader may: - 10. Together with SPI, make decisions affecting property held in trust - for purposes related to Debian. (See §9.) = == 5. Project Leader 5.1. Powers The Project Leader may: + 10. In consultation with the developers, make decisions affecting + property held in trust for purposes related to Debian. (See + §9.). Such decisions are made by announcement on a + publicly-readable electronic mailing list designated by the + Project Leader's Delegate(s); any Developer may post there. - -- -9. Software in the Public Interest SPI and Debian are separate organisations who share some goals. Debian is grateful for the legal support framework offered by SPI. Debian's Developers are currently members of SPI by virtue of their status as Developers. - 9.1. Authority - -1. SPI has no authority regarding Debian's technical or nontechnical - decisions, except that no decision by Debian with respect to any - property held by SPI shall require SPI to act outside its legal - authority, and that Debian's constitution may occasionally use SPI - as a decision body of last resort. -2. Debian claims no authority over SPI other than that over the use - of certain of SPI's property, as described below, though Debian - Developers may be granted authority within SPI by SPI's rules. -3. Debian Developers are not agents or employees of SPI, or of each - other or of persons in authority in the Debian Project. A person - acting as a Developer does so as an individual, on their own - behalf. - 9.2. Management of property for purposes related to Debian - Since Debian has no authority to hold money or property, any donations - for the Debian Project must be made to SPI, which manages such - affairs. SPI have made the following undertakings: 1. SPI will hold money, trademarks and other tangible and intangible property and manage other affairs for purposes related to Debian. 2. Such property will be accounted for separately and held in trust for those purposes, decided on by Debian and SPI according to this section. 3. SPI will not dispose of or use property held in trust for Debian without approval from Debian, which may be granted by the Project Leader or by General Resolution of the Developers. 4. SPI will consider using or disposing of property held in trust for Debian when asked to do so by the Project Leader. 5. SPI will use or dispose of property held in trust for Debian when asked to do so by a General Resolution of the Developers, provided that this is compatible with SPI's legal authority. 6. SPI will notify the Developers by electronic mail to a Debian Project mailing list when it uses or disposes of property held in trust for Debian. +9. Assets held in trust for Debian + Debian has no legal presence in any country worldwide, and as such + cannot maintain any money or other property. Therefore, property will + have to be maintained by any of a number of organizations as detailed in + §9.2 + + Traditionally, SPI was the sole organization authorized to hold + property and monies for the Debian Project. SPI was created in + the U.S. to hold money in trust there. SPI and Debian are separate organisations who share some goals. Debian is grateful for the legal support framework offered by SPI. Debian's Developers are eligible for contributing membership in SPI by virtue of their status as Developers. + 9.1
Re: Hello
On Wednesday 19 July 2006 23:16, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We have released the first macedonian CERT team who can help Macedonia reduce the cyber crime. Good to hear! So, I'm e-mailing you for the reason that we are looking for your permission to add the debian.org link on our website No premission is needed to link to our website. Just do it. ... looking for your partnership ... I don't understand what you are looking for. Debian is an all-volounteer organisation, not a company, so our resources are severely limited. You may use Debian, and we are happy to receive your feedback via the usual channels (mailing lists, bug tracking system, ... - see http://www.debian.org/devel/join/). We are, in return, happy to provide what assistance we can through the usual channels (Debian users's mailing list http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/, #debian IRC channel on OFTC, see also http://www.debian.org/support. Beyond that, please specify more precisely how you think you could profit from a partnership, and how the Debian project could profit from such a partnership. Be advised, however, that the Debian project does not usually enter into official partnership agreements etc. with corporations, but instead works together on an individual basis (i.e. where in the corporate world an official partnership would be announced, in the Debian world you would just sponsor some work to be done on Debian. See, for example, the recent announcements about the Bhutan Government, and other organisations, helping to create Debian-based DzongkhaLinux: http://www.debian.org/News/2006/20060719) You may contact me directly, I will try to be of assistance. (Please be aware that communications sent to the debian-project email address are public.) greetings -- vbi pgpzayLPYKAFE.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: On-going anthropologic research about Debian
On Thursday 18 May 2006 21:47, Ralph Katz wrote: For instance, the #1 language for google searches of debian is Hungarian! Hmmm. I seriously have a problem with this - not because I don't like the hungarians, but because english isn't even on the top ten languages list, and the US isn't on the top ten regions list. cheers -- vbi -- This will be a memorable month -- no matter how hard you try to forget it. pgp1kBwg7fHRu.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Setting up i18n.debian.org?
On Monday 03 April 2006 01:25, Christian Surchi wrote: Il giorno dom, 02/04/2006 alle 18.39 -0400, Jaldhar H. Vyas ha scritto: Well, personally I had debian-specific projects like d-i and debconf translations in mind. And how could be that idea connected to upstream translation work? That was my question, basically. I guess the answer is 'not, and that's not a bad thing either'. For d-i and package descriptions etc. there are not upstream developers separate from Debian. I presume work on program translations should take place wherever upstream does it - no need for Debian to set up an infrastructure. If upstream infrastructure for i18n is lacking, this should be solved upstream, not in Debian. -- vbi -- featured link: http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/subkeys pgpdcYUOqEyr4.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: uol.com.br and petsupermarket
On Monday 13 March 2006 04:20, Anand Kumria wrote: That means that as of now, uol.com.br are now considered spam addresses and anyone with that address (uol.com.br) has now been unceremoniously unsubscribed[1]. Just curious: how many accounts where these? I have blocked quite a bit of .com.br in my own filters already, and uol rings a bell, I suspect I've already seen it in spam a few times... cheers keep up the work, listmasters! -- vbi -- Available for key signing in Zürich and Basel, Switzerland (what's this? Look at http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/intro) pgpMH1XQ4E2Mb.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: uol.com.br and petsupermarket
On Monday 13 March 2006 21:08, Gustavo Franco wrote: On 3/13/06, Adrian von Bidder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 13 March 2006 04:20, Anand Kumria wrote: That means that as of now, uol.com.br are now considered spam addresses and anyone with that address (uol.com.br) has now been unceremoniously unsubscribed[1]. Just curious: how many accounts where these? I have blocked quite a bit of .com.br in my own filters already, and uol rings a bell, I suspect I've already seen it in spam a few times... Do you really agree that unsubscribe every uol.com.br address was a good thing? Since it's not Debian mail *to* uol.com.br that's the problem, but mail *from* them, I'd just habe blacklisted all @uol.com.br sender addresses and their IP space for incoming mail instead. But I'm not listmaster. The general idea is: if uol.com.br is not able to react to repeated requests on postmaster and abuse addresses, let's separate their part of the Internet from our part of the Internet. With that idea, I agree. -- vbi -- May the bluebird of happiness twiddle your bits. pgpN8aO5DuKwh.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: mirror size
[debian-www: lower part of this message. Topic came up on -project]
[Michael: cc:d, I don't know if you read the debian-project mailing list]
On Monday 27 February 2006 16:16, you wrote:
I tried already to mirror the ftp.debian.at mirror ... but after ca 170G
my harddisk was full ... :-(
Michael:
From http://www.debian.org/mirror/
You can mirror the Debian archive in part or as a whole — check the mirror
size [1]. See the pages on setting up a mirror[2] of the Debian archive for
more information on methods of mirroring, how to do partial mirroring, when
to mirror and more.
[1] http://www.debian.org/mirror/size
[2] http://www.debian.org/mirror/ftpmirror
And: I don't know why you're building a mirror, but if you're only use it in
your organisation internally, it's very likely that you don't need to
mirror all of the more exotic architectures (mips{el}, arm, m68k,
s390, ...), so you could cut down on diskspace and bandwidth quite a bit.
debian-ww:
http://www.debian.org/mirror/size Seems to be outdated, if Michael was
building his mirror correctly and his disk was full after 170G - the mirror
size on the web page is given as 120G. Marc Haber posted the link
http://lists.debian.org/debian-mirrors-announce/2006/02/msg0.html
which states 170G as mirror size.
greetings
-- vbi
--
The conundrum is not in which email, but in how many users. The number of
users would be inversely proportional to the question of, 'which email', and
could then likely be regurgitated as, 'what email', or so to speak. Since
the question of how many users bring us to the inevitable query of the email
itself, you have to start counting each user twice, and sometimes thrice in
order to come to a more accurate conclusion about what email.
-- Darren V. in news.admin.net-abuse.email
pgpAIekJdMtBY.pgp
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Re: mailbox clogging, need daily digests of the list
On Tuesday 17 January 2006 22:33, Madana Prathap wrote: Hi, I've been subscribed to 12 debian mailing-lists. As you could imagine, my mailbox is simply over-flowing now, with the number of mails the frequency. To avoid the struggle, I would like to subscribe to a daily digest of mails on the lists. You honestly get all lists delivered into one inbox? Set up mail filters NOW! Let your mailserver or MUA do the work and sort each list in a separate folder - then the 100-odd -devel and -user mails are the biggest chunks, but together with threaded mail display and the 'ignore thread' feature which IMHO any decent mail client shuld offer (at least when used to read mailing lists), this is absolutely manageable. No idea if gmail is feature-complete enough for that. And obviously I don't claim this to be the only way to read lists, it's just how I do it, with 400+ emails per day on some 20-odd mailing lists - and I'm still able to find personal email in my regular inbox. Using things like automatic scoring and other more newsreader-like features might be another possibility. cheers -- vbi -- this email is protected by a digital signature: http://fortytwo.ch/gpg pgpGtS5Q5nn3H.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: mailbox clogging, need daily digests of the list
On Wednesday 25 January 2006 16:46, Michelle Konzack wrote: | :0 | | * ^X-Mailing-List:.*debian-\/[-a-zA-Z0-9]+ | .ML_debian.$MATCH/ Cool, now we all know how to create new folders in your mailbox :-) -- vbi (who admits to have the same vulnerability in his .procmailrc) -- What awful irony is this? We are as gods, but know it not. pgpV8wXhaeds3.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Entry
On Tuesday 24 January 2006 09:37, IMD wrote: please delete my Entry from your server http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2001/10/msg00074.html Hi Torsten, This probably won't happen - Debian does not usually delete emails from the public list archive (except for obvious spam, which your email is not.) Most Debian mailing list are archived on the lists.debian.org webserver and publicly available, including available for searching from google etc. These mailing lists are a valuable resources, and editing them retroactively is a very, very sensible topic. greetings -- vbi -- Could this mail be a fake? (Answer: No! - http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/intro) pgpkg1aLFrrk3.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: DVD image version (r0a/r1)?
On Saturday 07 January 2006 01.25, Peter Samuelson wrote: debian-31r1-i386-binary-1.iso debian-31r1-i386-binary-2.iso Right, r1 is just r0a plus some accumulated updates (mostly security updates). And: please note that you don't have to download the r1 images if you already have the r0 images. Just point /etc/apt/sources.list to the network instead of the cdrom. Or, if you have no fast net access at some computers, use jigdo to create r1 images starting from the r0a images - then you only have to download the difference, not the full ISOs. cheers -- vbi -- Treibt's das Hähnchen all zu lange, fällt das Hühnchen von der Stange. pgp4DnfZBHta5.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: New Linux- Usergroup at school
On Friday 23 December 2005 20.58, norman wrote: Have anybody expieriences in such projects? You probably should ask the debian-edu/skolelinux people - they specialise in using Debian in schools. Debian edu: see http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu Skolelinux: see http://www.skolelinux.org/portal/ The projects are quite closely related, and there's mailing lists and IRC channels for both. How can I get Demo-material and Live-CDs of the current version. Debian itself does not distribute demo material, and also doesn't have a live CD. I don't know what the Skolelinux people do/have. There are many live CDs based on Debian, however, so you may want to try one of these (popular choices are Knoppix and Ubuntu, but there's probably more than 15 or so by now.) The current version of Debian is sarge/3.1r1, see http://www.debian.org/distrib/ on how to obtain it. If your school has decent network connection, I recommend downloading only the netinst or businesscard ISO (http://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/) and then set up a local package repository with one of apt-cacher, apt-proxy, debmirror or debpartial-mirror on the first machine you install. Then install all other machines from that mirror, and you'll end up only downloading what you need and downloading every package only once. (For a typical installation, you'll only download 600M or so, which is obviously much less than 14 full CD images.) There's also certainly some Linux users' group in your area, you should probably ask there, somebody may be ready to help you getting started. Bye -- vbi -- featured link: http://fortytwo.ch/smtp pgpxEToVfDpjP.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Stable security support
On Thursday 22 December 2005 09.59, Anthony Towns wrote: On Thu, Dec 22, 2005 at 08:54:36AM +0100, Adrian von Bidder wrote: Problem with a GR: it doesn't get any work done. Right; that's not the intention of the GR though -- the intention is to authorise people to do the work. I've done all I feel I'm within my rights to (and in fact slightly more than that) in providing access to security.d.o to some of the testing-security team. While I could try doing more than that, and possibly succeed thanks to my tyranny over Unix permissions, I don't particularly want to provide any substance to accusations of coups and whatever else. Ah. To me, that is quite a bit of the missing piece of information on why you feel this GR is needed. To me the GR sounds very much wishy-washy, kind of 'let's appoint some people who might then do some work.' With what you say here, I can see the motivation for this GR. Also, it becomes clearer as it's apparently not clear whether the security team are delegates - I assumed they were (and feel they should be). Maybe - is it time to clear this issue now? http://people.debian.org/~branden/dpl/reports/2005-07-07.html branden: | I have sent the Debian Security Team a proposal for making DPL delegates | out of its members; Whatever became of that? (Hmmm. What *is* the curernt status? http://lists.debian.org/debian-security/2005/08/msg00226.html only muddies the water for me.) Word from the DPL or SecTeam members would be welcome here - do they operate under the assumption that the security team are delegates? I don't know if it carries more or less weight having me say it, but I think it's entirely appropriate to cut Branden a lot of slack in not trying to come in as DPL and fix this. Well, I'm extremely ambivalent on this matter. I often have the feeling that a more vocal DPL could in some instances give the project a clearer idea where to go - or, maybe, if the DPL wants to go where others don't want, issues would be debated earlier. OTOH a vocal/active leadership-type DPL might meet opposition in the project on unprecedented scale, so maybe the Way It's Always Been Done(tm) isn't so bad... Back to the topic at hand: Can't Joeyh, Steve and Micah just be added to the security team[1] along with Martin (same disclaimer as in your mail: assuming they want to) and assume that the security team will work out amongst themselves who would continue to care about current stable security and who would do the 'redesign the process' part? Assuming that 'member of the security team' does not automatically mean 'does need vendor-sec clearance and all kinds of assorted special Debian powers that can't be given to some of these people'. Why just add them to the secteam instead of appointing them to a special redesign-the-process team? Because I feel that if ever the result of that work should be useful, it needs to be done in close cooperation with the current security team anway. [1] by GR? By delegation? By invitation from the current secteam? IMHO preferable (ii) or maybe (iii), GR doesn't feel right: if we're going to vote on people, we should have proper debates à la DPL vote, but this is creating a kind of procedure that seems, to me, much too heavyweight for this kind of job. -- vbi -- 1933 wollten viele aus Deutschland raus, heute wollen viele rein. Das muss doch etwas bedeuten. -- Sir Peter Ustinov pgpItyQnKTqtC.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Stable security support
On Thursday 22 December 2005 12.08, Steve Langasek wrote: On Thu, Dec 22, 2005 at 11:23:32AM +0100, Adrian von Bidder wrote: Ah. To me, that is quite a bit of the missing piece of information on why you feel this GR is needed. To me the GR sounds very much wishy-washy, kind of 'let's appoint some people who might then do some work.' With what you say here, I can see the motivation for this GR. Also, it becomes clearer as it's apparently not clear whether the security team are delegates - I assumed they were (and feel they should be). Maybe - is it time to clear this issue now? Well, this would not be skipping over worrying about the delegation question, as Anthony suggests. Correct. The only point I see in establishing that existing security team members are delegates is if you plan for the DPL to rescind their delegate status (or threaten to, I guess). Or to propose that the DPL just delegates the people to the tasks aj proposed. For me, this requires clearing the status of the current secteam members, because I don't think having 'delegated secteam members' alongside 'pre-delecation secteam members with unclear status' is a good idea. Back to the topic at hand: Can't Joeyh, Steve and Micah just be added to the security team[1] Er... there's quite a difference in scope between talk to the security team about existing processes and try to help identify possible improvements and sit on the security team. I sure haven't agreed to the second, Point taken. and I don't think a GR (or unilateral delegation) is a particularly good way to choose members for a *team*, either. Nobody talked about unilateral. See the disclaimer both aj and I mentioned? Actually one of the reason I don't feel a GR should be used here is that I feel that would exactly be an unilateral action, potentially antagonizing the current security team. At least until that the current secteam indicates that this GR is welcome to them. cheers -- vbi -- Beware of the FUD - know your enemies. This week * The Alexis de Toqueville Institue * http://fortytwo.ch/opinion/adti pgpCLf4SwsNMB.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Stable security support
On Tuesday 20 December 2005 19.33, Anthony Towns wrote: ... it's worth considering a GR ... I really liked your analysis up to that point. I can't see any reason why we would need a GR here. -- vbi -- Beware of the FUD - know your enemies. This week * Patent Law, and how it is currently abused. * http://fortytwo.ch/opinion pgpGJgfGpdqHb.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Your posting: Debian on one dvd?
On Tuesday 20 December 2005 23.12, Daniel Tasch wrote: I would love to be able to use Debian, [...] packaging system [...] extreem network-centerednes Huh? You certainly can get hold of DVD images for Debian sarge - for instance: at cheapbytes, $12.99. Especially right now, with the stable distribution being less than a year old, sarge is perfectly fine. As for updates: 99% of the security updates won't affect you - and for the few bigger ones (xserver) you said sneakernet is totally feasible - apt-zip and other tools have been mentioned. So, Debian is only network centric if you want to run testing or unstable - sarge OTOH doesn't need much new software and can be run entirely from the DVDs. cheers -- vbi -- Beware of the FUD - know your enemies. This week * Patent Law, and how it is currently abused. * http://fortytwo.ch/opinion pgpHjlUJAwqTZ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Stable security support
On Wednesday 21 December 2005 12.28, Thijs Kinkhorst wrote: On Wed, 2005-12-21 at 12:08 +0100, Adrian von Bidder wrote: On Tuesday 20 December 2005 19.33, Anthony Towns wrote: ... it's worth considering a GR ... I really liked your analysis up to that point. I can't see any reason why we would need a GR here. I think it's an interesting approach. The issue at hand has been going on for a long time, and it is needed that something is done. Keyword: something needs to be done. a GR is more talk. If there are people who are ready to do the work, the kind of GR being proposed here is absolutely not necessary, and if we don't have people ready to do the work, the GR won't change anything. aj: -- * The project expects the highest possible level of security support for it users, and in particular that if we don't provide better support than every other comparable distribution at all times, we are beneath our own expectations. Producing a quality OS distribution has always been the goal of Debian, no GR needed. * As such, security support for Debian 3.0 and 3.1 has been beneath Debian's expectations. Given the amount of discussion we've already had, I guess a GR is not needed on this point. * The existing security team is operating at capacity in providing ongoing security support at present, and as a result, expecting the security team to devote time and resources to resolving the issue will cause Debian's security support to slip further beneath expectations. Cool. Voting in a GR that some people are overworked/maxed-out. * In order to avoid this, the project thus accepts that it is the responsibility of the project at large to resolve this issue. The project at large already has this responsibility. How this responsibility is taken is what is at issue here. * As such: - the project authorises a team consisting of Joey Hess, Steve Langasek and Micah Anderson to review the stable security team's processes and resources and recommend any changes they believe appropriate. With the Project Leader's approval, these recommendations shall be put into effect. I claim that most of the work can be done by interested developers 'just so', if they talk with the security team. If the security team is not responsive, the DPL is needed - he can change delegations. If delegations are needed to do the work, the DPL can do them. If the DPL won't do them, let's discuss that issue instead of this (IMHO silly) GR proposal. - the project authorises the immediate addition of Martin Pitt to the stable security team, with the expectation that he will make every effort to ease the load on the existing members, in so far as that is possible while ensuring his work does not conflict or impede that of the existing members. Delegations are made by the DPL. - the project authorises and expects all due assistance to be provided to the review team and security team in carrying out these activities, particularly by the Debian System Administration team in ensuring access is available to information on how the team is operating, and by the FTP Master team in ensuring the capabilities of the security infrastructure meet both existing and new expectations. Good coordination between the various infrastructure teams is absolutely necessary. If the existing teams won't work good enough, a probably won't change that. So we're back to either bitching about ftp-masters or debian-admin or DAM or about the DPL for not taking actions on these. (I guess debian-admin and DAM is the topic du jour, I've not seen much bad press about ftp-masters these days.) * The project offers the security team its thanks and congratulations for their efforts to date, and expects the activities noted above to be undertaken with the respect and courtesy due the individuals who have singlehandedly provided Debian with security support over recent years. While I share this sentiment, no GR is needed for this either. So, short intermission: I'd like to thank the security team for all the work they've done over the past years, often in parallel to all the other work they've done for Debian in other areas. -- back to Thijs: What especially needed is a decision on how it is going to be solved, The GR does not say how the problem should be solved. and after the decision has been made,that people work towards reaching that goal. Since the GR already appoints people, I interpret it that - from your view - it's putting the cart before the horse. (This is slightly tongue in cheek. I realise that you probably don't see it that way.) Seriously: I'm back to my claim that *if* these people are interested to do
Re: Stable security support
On Wednesday 21 December 2005 17.55, Florian Weimer wrote: [...] your efforts to decouple them are appreciated. AJ - since I'm bashing this GR idea quite a bit, please don't misunderstand me. I appreciate the work you've done and think the direction is absolutely correct. I'm just opposed to hold a GR about this. cheers -- vbi -- Unless you love someone, nothing else makes any sense. -- e.e. cummings pgphw7TrMeJIi.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Self Destructing Computers...
On Thursday 08 December 2005 11.20, Paul Johnson wrote: On Wednesday 07 December 2005 05:57 pm, Nick D'Annunzio wrote: Hi, my name is Nick. I went to start my computer last night after work and an awful blue smoke blew out the back. I ripped the cord out from the wall and opened the computer up and the processor was smoking. Be careful when opening electronics that are burning up. Might be a good idea to give them a few minutes. Case in point... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7870362821870979072 There's the off chance something disrupts the balance in the force, causing the magic smoke to explosively decompress. Can't happen here. That guy was running Windows. -- vbi -- featured link: http://www.pool.ntp.org pgpMAlt2AmnLy.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Is volatile dead?
On Wednesday 23 November 2005 13.15, Martin Zobel-Helas wrote: [long delays in volatile] How about joining the team? debian-volatile would surely do better, if more persons would be involved in the team process. Why does it allways need Andi or me to answer a mail on the mailing lists? As stated, I'm not overly interested in volatile - I think there'd be a high risk of me silently disappearing after a few weeks if I'd offer help on this project, sorry. I just saw that it was discussed quite a bit when it was introduced, and evlolved far enough to get mentioned in the release notes, so I got the impression that it was a well-established project. So I was surprised to see that people have had to wait for several weeks for a reply. Ok, after having complained about the work that doesn't get done promptly enough: thanks for the work you (== the whole volatile team - is there really only you and aba?) *do*. volatile certainly is a good idea and deserves more attention. cheers -- vbi -- Could this mail be a fake? (Answer: No! - http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/intro) pgp4aKrtIm6v9.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Is volatile dead?
On Monday 21 November 2005 10.15, Andreas Barth wrote: * Adrian von Bidder ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [051121 08:32]: * I've not received an answer to my announcement on the d-v mailing list in a week, and investigation of the last three messages in the list archive (re: spamassassin and f-prot-installer) indicate that receiving no comments is nothing unusual. You mean, if there is a week where people are only available for emergency services, an service is officially dead? Sorry, I disagree. yes, I have only waited a week, and I agree with you that people can be very busy for one week and not able to answer mail. But a week is not the impression I get: Johannes Rohr: [Hello, I'm resending this message, as I have been waiting for a response for almost a month now] Marcus Frings Four weeks have passed since this announcement, thus I would like to kindly ask when this package will hit the official volatile-mirrors. Did any problems occur? This is not just 'a few days'. As I said, I'm not involved with volatile at all, and getting no answer for a week and, on investigating, finding that the relevant mailing list is very low-traffic with the latest messages being two other people complaining about delays of a month, does not give me a good impression. If this is a temporary situation, all the better. greetings -- vbi -- OpenPGP encrypted mail welcome - my key: http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/92082481 pgp01IRpmIGH2.pgp Description: PGP signature
Is volatile dead?
Hi, I was asked (309511) to upload postgrey to volatile, as it contains a whitelist of some IP addresses that can't deal with greylisting. I'm not particularly interested in volatile myself, so I come to this from the outside. I would like to make two observations: * the procedure for volatile uploads is missing some information on how, exactly, the upload should be made ( see also http://lists.debian.org/debian-volatile/2005/11/msg8.html) * I've not received an answer to my announcement on the d-v mailing list in a week, and investigation of the last three messages in the list archive (re: spamassassin and f-prot-installer) indicate that receiving no comments is nothing unusual. So, is the Debian volatile archive officially dead? Now I don't care much about random .debian.net (== unofficial) services, but OTOH volatile is mentioned in the release notes, so peolpe would expect it to work. cheers -- vbi (/me wonders if I shouldn't have used the more traditional Debian is Doomed(tm) subject line instead *eg*) -- featured link: http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/intro pgp0Lox44a67l.pgp Description: PGP signature
Woody release notes: is obsoleted by sarge now.
On Thursday 20 October 2005 04.36, Horms wrote: On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 07:34:00PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the 2.2 is written here http://www.us.debian.org/releases/potato/ the following : Debian GNU/Linux 2.2 has been obsoleted by Debian GNU/Linux 3.0 (woody). Security updates are discontinued as of June 30th, 2003. The same is not written for the 3.0 release that is declared osbolete like the 2.2. [...] Yes. This should probably be mentioned on that page, [...] /me points to http://bugs.debian.org/323770 which even includes a patch and mentions the situation wrt security updates. (Yeah, I forgot to tag it when I filed the bug, but then the mail is short enough that somebody on d-www might have noticed the patch...) Can all DD commit to www? I didn't try, 'cause I don't usually just mess with others' content (I don't follow -www at all.) cheers -- vbi -- She ran the gamut of emotions from 'A' to 'B'. -- Dorothy Parker, on a Kate Hepburn performance pgpIe0COAqGKs.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: General linux question.
On Monday 17 October 2005 04.20, stephen horvath wrote: I do have a question that I have not received an answer. What is the real difference in what is referred to as Red Hat based or Debian based? As you've certainly noticed by now, the actual application programs (KDE, Gnome, The Gimp, OpenOffice.org etc.) are the same on both RedHat and Debian-based systems (and, for that matter, on Mandriva and Novell/SuSE, too - those are not really RedHat based anymore today.) The principal difference is in how software packages are distributed. On Windows, you had '.cab' files or self-extracting '.exe' files with (most often) an InstallShield based installer program (or similar.) On Debian based systems, you have '.deb' files, on RedHat/SuSE/Mandriva you have '.rpm' files. Between Red Hat, SuSE and Mandriva, while the package format is te same, the package names and the dependencies between the packages differ (ok, this is now becoming quite technical - as a user, you can just ignore that.) Another difference between the Linux distributions is the installer (I mean the system installer - what you see when you first boot from the distribution CD) - even within the 'Debian family' (Debian, Knoppix, Xandros, MEPIS, Ubuntu, ...) there are differencies. Also, the way to change system settings (set up Internet access, install additional programs, ...) once you have installed your system is different. I hope this helps to satisfy your curiosity. greetings Adrian -- Of course I know how to copy disks. Where's the xerox machine? pgpjCr9jaF7sa.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Software Packages in stable - [security]
On Friday 23 September 2005 20.13, Sven Luther wrote: A default install should have both normal stable and stable/security in your apt sources so it should be transparent for you. And, since you're new to Debian: The term 'apt sources' refers to the file /etc/apt/sources.list on your system. The two essential lines it should contain are: deb http://security.debian.org/ sarge/updates main non-free contrib deb http://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/ftp/mirror/debian/ sarge main non-free contrib (I use the swiss Debian mirror at sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch - it will probably be different on your system.) greetings -- vbi -- Alexander Graham Bell is alive and well in New York, and still waiting for a dial tone. pgp1mjGAmWUca.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: announcing a discussion list about academic aspects of Debian
On Tuesday 30 August 2005 14.02, martin f krafft wrote: Debian-Edu is a project about improving Debian to make it the best distribution for educational purposes. [EMAIL PROTECTED] is for people who are involved (or interested in) academic research about Debian. ... and the recently created debian-science is about *use of* Debian in academic (or other) research environments. Just to complete this list. I suspect we will see this same question again, occasionally. (madduck: would it make sense to announce your list on debian-science?) cheers -- vbi -- Daddy, what does FORMATTING DRIVE C mean? pgpN0n26ZgNqp.pgp Description: PGP signature
The 'Alioth upgrade' upgrade
Yo all! Whoever caused this (below): please respect a few simple rules regarding email in general and email in the Debian project: - write in the From: header, or at least in some signature, who the originator of the mail was. Espeically when some 'I' writes that he did something. - Priority: List or Bulk or whatever for bulk messages - announcement messages to some announcement mailing list - why could this mail not go to d-d-a? Yes, I'm slightly annoyed. (All the more since I do not even use alioth at all...) Regards -- vbi From: Mailer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Probably all Debian accounts? Date: Yesterday 21.55:22 Since Alioth seemed to be an often mentioned service here at DebConf5 I took the time to do some work on it in between talks and the occasional drink. Alioth is sufficiently non-trivial to make the upgrade somewhat interesting, but the end result seems to be a nice improvement. The major noticable changes are: * upgrade from woody to sarge, which also allowed for: * postgres tuned, should be faster now * LDAP tuned, should be faster now * email configuration improved * mailman upgraded to 2.1 I did notice that a number of users are running crontabs that do not check if they are already running, which in some situations resulted in a dozen copies of the same crontab running in parallel. Please fix that since it needlessly loads the machine. From now on if I notice people doing that I will disable their crontab access until they fix their scripts. -- Beware of the FUD - know your enemies. This week * The Alexis de Toqueville Institue * http://fortytwo.ch/opinion/adti pgpY1MR87tRil.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Fwd: Problems contacting the debian people .... (was: new configuration to avoid spam at the lists)]
On Thursday 02 June 2005 11.33, Pascal Hakim wrote: [mail to Debian role accounts being ignored sometimes] Would a Debian Enquiry Response Team help? Yes, imho it could help - I could imagine offering myself to sort out sort out simple inquiries (point people to mailing lists or point out that our policy/current SOP doesn't include doing whatever the person might want) from requests that really require attention of a listmaster, for example. Would this take some noticeable load off the listmasters, or just would it just cause additional delay unitl listmasters see the real requests? I think some way for me to flag that listmaster attention is needed/is not needed for a specific request and some (vaguely) defined way of who takes care of requests when I don't answer a mail within some time would be the only prerequisites. With some common sense, a modern threading mailreader and cc:ing the listmaster address back on all replies with edited Subject lines), I think this could be done 99% - no complicated set up necessary. alternative: use a ticketing system (should probably only accessible to listmasters or at least only to DDs). But that would need some set up, and besides I haven't seen a ticketing system that satisfied me yet. Before I commit myself to this: how much traffic are we looking at? cheers -- vbi -- Today is Pungenday, the 7th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3171 pgp9Dode5fRVJ.pgp Description: PGP signature
snapshot.debian.net - .org
Hi, As many here (d-project) probably remember, I discussed promoting snapshot.debian.net to an official debian.org service recently. http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2005/04/msg00327.html There was more or less general agreement about snapshot being a useful service, and most of the discussion was about how much it should carry and how long, and how a backup could be set up. Now I'd like to move forward with my original idea, adding a snapshot.d.o domain. IMHO this is completely independent from all other issues discussed in the last thread - especially since Fumitoshi UKAI who currently runs the service did agree that a .org domain would be nice. So: who do I contact? (I guess in *theory* debian-admin is the right place, but I'm not sure - SOA points to [EMAIL PROTECTED]) thank you -- vbi -- Menschen mit unbeirrbaren Grundsätzen sind wie Autos, die auf Schienen fahren. -- Roberto Rossellini pgpUQiAuzfra1.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Fehlende ISO?
On Tuesday 17 May 2005 13.38, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo, ich lade mir seit kurzem das Debian Sarge für die Alphaplattform herunter. (http://cdimage.debian.org/pub/weekly/alpha/) Allerdings kommt nach CD 9 schon CD 11. Wurde die CD 10 vergessen oder gibt es sie einfach nicht? Please write in english. Do you really need to download the full ISO set? - if you want to install a Debian machine which has network connection, you're far better off if you download the businesscard or netinst ISO (~30 or ~100M) and then only download the packages you really need. - if you want to install several Debian machines, I recommend installing the first machine from businesscard ISO and only a minimal package set, then looking at the 'apt-proxy' or 'apt-cacher' packages to use that first Debian machine as a local mirror for installing the other machines. - even if you really want to install machiens which have no network access, you'll usually only need the first ISO and a few additional packages. There are tools like apt-zip that can be used to later easily determine which packages to get. (Ok, but by now you probably already have your ISO images - but I'd still advise to switch to direct downloading of updated packages. Repeatedly downloading CD weekly images or so would *really* be a waste of bandwidth. If you want to get updated CD images, have a look at jigdo.) greetings -- vbi -- Beware of the FUD - know your enemies. This week * The Alexis de Toqueville Institue * http://fortytwo.ch/opinion/adti pgpSOEfcHW9nx.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Way you not support DLink 650+
Hello Martin,
I'm glad you like Debian.
On Wednesday 18 May 2005 10.48, M.Schweizer wrote:
Debian its a good Product , about wats Missing its Real or Helix Player
and Skipe or a nother IP Free Client (XTEN)
I think you should read a bit more about Debian's background - especially:
All important Freeware
'Freeware' is usually the term for software that comes at no cost - like the
software you mentioned, for example.
Debian, though, is not about freeware, Debian is about creating a Linux
distribution that uses Free Software, where the 'Free' stands for
'Freedom' ('Frei' in german, 'libre' in french) instead of 'gratis'. While
Free Software usually comes at zero cost, that is not the important bit.
Typical Freeware is not Free Software, and thus Debian does not support it.
As Michelle has said: as a result of Debian being 'Free Software' and not
just 'Freeware', you can help to improve Debian. You don't need to be an
expert at anything, you just need the will to help and a certain amount of
persistence and patience. There are many tasks that require no specialist
knowledge (for instance, translations, web page work, etc.) - and given
time, you'll learn a lot and you'll find the areas where you really are
interested and where you will become a specialist.
If you want to help Debian, please feel free to reply to me off list and
I'll help you getting started.
Martin Schweizer,Switzerland
Where? (Just curious - I'm in Zürich)
-- vbi
--
The world has many unintentionally cruel mechanisms that are not
designed for people who walk on their hands.
-- John Irving, The World According to Garp
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Re: snapshot.debian.net
I wonder if snapshot shouldn't be promoted to an official debian.*org* service in recognition of its value to the project. Summarizing the discussion so far: (1) drain of funds / should Debian really purchase disk space of that size? (1.4TB, growing and growing...) (2) there is also the morgue (60G but only goes back a few months) (3) snapshot.d.n is useful for security - so far only source was used for this purpose (4) for various purposes, old binaries also seem useful; especially since the old binaries can not (easily) be regenerated from the sources. (5) the indexing is really nice (compared with what the morgue offers) Comments: - why not leave it where it is now, just add the DNS alias - How much *does* Debian spend on resources right now? Not much, afaict - most resources are sponsored by somebody (as is current snapshot.debian.net). - to limit the growth: keep x years of binaries, y years of source, and rely on past Debian releases for the really ancient stuff. Conclusion: so far, I get the feeling that snapshot is a service that would be missed if it were discontinued, so I think 'awarding' it a debian.org alias is justified. NOTE I haven't spoken Fumitoshi Ukai, who is maintaining snapshot.d.n afaict, so maybe he has totally different views. so long -- vbi -- Could this mail be a fake? (Answer: No! - http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/intro) pgpwA7pCGTa52.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: New Maintainers
On Monday 04 April 2005 01.28, Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote: Adrian von Bidder cmot In the near future, Linux in the enterprise (server and desktop) will be an important part of my $DAYJOB, and I hope that I can do at least part of my work as a DD there. Well, it didn't work out that way - I'm now working on a email encryption applicance, running on OpenBSD, not Debian. But they loet me manage my workstation myself, so that's a Debian box for sure :-) cheers -- vbi -- Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 21st day of Discord in the YOLD 3171 pgpJAJIudx2B2.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian is inside OpenPuppets' world
On Monday 21 March 2005 18.29, OrganicaDTM wrote: [openpuppet] Hi, I would ask you not to make further announcements to the debian-project list (or, at least, explain how these announcements are on-topic on the debian-project mailing list.) thank you -- vbi pgpJQUWvTmB9e.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: french site submission
On Saturday 19 March 2005 21.04, Aurélien wrote: hello, i create the first site in Corsica for delivering the Debian cd. can you put my adress in you site for cd or pré-installation http://www.sipion.com Hi, Please read the instructions on http://www.debian.org/CD/vendors/adding for how to be added to http://www.debian.org/CD/vendors/ greetings -- vbi -- featured product: the Apache web server - http://httpd.apache.org pgpKvAWJo8GKF.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: IRC debate feedback
Helen, Martin - thanks for your effort. I found the first hour basically wasted time - the strength of IRC is that it's real-time, while the form of the first hour of debate did not really use that, instead showing the weaknesses of IRC when text needs to be copied pasted around :-) The 'Questions for the Candidates' emails on -vote, together with a summary like http://debian.edv-bus.at/vote-2005/ (thanks to David for doing this!) is much better suited for this. In contrast, I very much appreciated the second part of the discussion - it was, as several of the participants said, a bit chaotic, but I think both of you started to try to lead the debate a bit more towards the end - successfully, in my view. I haven't looked at any earlier IRC DPL candidate debates, so I can't compare if this was better or worse. So long -- vbi -- Hail Eris! pgpmyy6xKI42b.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: How to be debian developer
On Tuesday 15 March 2005 10.35, Rapid Sun wrote: Dear Sir or Madam, Last month, i have attended Debian Mini Conference in Beijing. The project manager, Mr. Martin, mentioned about helping Debian. Cambodia is new to Open Source. I am very interesting in this and some of my students want to be debian developer. Can you tell me how can we start on this? Hi, The best place is to start by reading the Debian web site, especially starting at http://www.debian.org/devel/join/ and http://www.debian.org/devel/. The short summary: don't start by applying to become an official, registered Debian Developer. Instead, get familiar with Debian, with its strengths and its weaknesses (both from a technical and structural/organisational view point.) Find where Debian is lacking and where you think you can work on improving Debian. Find people who are currently working in these areas (this is a very important step!), and talk to those people (often through a mailing list - if you're not sure, people on IRC or on the general debian-devel mailing list will certainly point you in the right direction.) Report bugs in the Debian bug tracking database (http://bugs.debian.org), but check first if the same bug was not reported before. It is very important to me that you don't get the impression that you wanting to help is not appreciated - quite on the contrary, Debian can use more people. But it *does* take quite a bit experience for many tasks, and getting experience takes time. What you always can do, and where help is really sorely needed, is doing translations and documentation - in some areas little technical expertise is needed, so you can instantly start working. Again: first talk to the relevant people; again see the web site at http://www.debian.org/devel/join/ (especially the mailing lists at http://lists.debian.org/i18n.html and http://lists.debian.org/debian-doc/) For the other suggestions, I would like to ask you to send all manual documents, CDs related to debian because in my organisation, we already setted up a room for Free/Open Source Software. Debian as an organisation does not send out CDs and manuals. I am aware that big fat Internet access may not be available in your region, so your best course of action is probably - searching Linux users's groups in your wider area (and every time somebody you know travels to some location) - asking at companies/institutions in your area with decent interent connectivity if you may download Debian cd images there. That said, to really actively work on Debian, I feel a way to regularly upload and download quantities of software is quite necessary (not necessarily 100s of MBytes, but certainly tens of MBytes per week) - Debian is an Internet project, and much Software is updated regularly. Shipping CDs regularly is probably just not really a feasible long-term solution. greetings -- vbi -- Hail Eris, Hack Linux! pgpi1uhdYzWc4.pgp Description: PGP signature
VA Linux / Sun Wah Linux to push Debian in China/Japan
Yo! I'm surprised that I haven't seen anything about this on the mailing lists (but OTOH I was probably just asleep - or is it vapourware anyway and we'll never again hear anything about it?) http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS2369631174.html (I saw this first) http://www.valinux.co.jp/en/newsroom/2005/0301/01/ (press release) http://www.sw-linux.com/www/en/scripts/press/viewpress.php?pressid=1283095094catid= (press release) So long -- vbi -- Could this mail be a fake? (Answer: No! - http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/intro) pgpTQH02lKVTM.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: New policy for http://www.debian.org/consultants/
On Thursday 10 February 2005 08.55, Stefan Schleifer wrote: Tobias Toedter wrote: On Tuesday 08 February 2005 23:30, MJ Ray wrote: Has the debian-consultants list been told about this discussion? No, I didn't send my initial mail to that list. I've looked at the archives and it seemed to me that [EMAIL PROTECTED] is more or less dead. It mostly consists of spam; some postings in September 2004 talk about shutting the list down. Cheers, shouldn't be a subscription to [EMAIL PROTECTED] a requirement for the listing on the webpage then? maybe we get more traffic on the list. I'd rather the list be shut down. Forcing people to subscribe to a dead list will only enlarge everybody's .procmailrc to /dev/null those mails. Saying this differently: what type of traffic do you expect on the list when consultants are force-fed it? cheers -- vbi -- Beware of the FUD - know your enemies. This week * Patent Law, and how it is currently abused. * http://fortytwo.ch/opinion -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Usage of Debian Structure Documentation, Social Contract etc
On Friday 27 February 2004 13.01, Zenaan Harkness wrote: To my personal mind, why would anyone choose anything other than Debian or Fedora (or Slackware or Gentoo for the masochists)? [...] I guess this was not the question at all. Recent flamewars have shown again and again that there are people who won't work together - so this is one very good reason for software developers not to want to join Debian. Technical decisions can be made in different ways - Debian often choses (rightly, IMHO, but taht's not the issue here) to be conservative (meaning: have a stable KDE 3.1 in testing and wait a bit before adopting KDE 3.2 etc., things like that). So thre's another bunch of reasons for wanting a community that is not Debian. Then, of course, there's installed userbase. Until you have all the SME Server specific things (file locations, config tools, ...) available in Debian, why should a SME SErver admin not wish to continue to develop the distro he's used to? Sure, reinventing the wheel (as you call it - Peter wants exactly to avoid that as far as he sees it is possible) wastes resources. But unlike the corporate world, it could well be that the resources spent on SME server would *not* be spent at all for FOSS development if there was not a SME Server community forming now. Peter: Iam not a Debian Developer myself,. but have chosen Debian because I have been annoyed too much by SuSE and RedHat. Now I stay with Debian because I like how things are done in Debian (well, most of the things). So I guess copying the Debian organisational model is certainly a possibility for you - and I guess you can read a bit in the recent flamewars on the debian-devel mailing list (and others) to learn what the main problems with the current Debian structure are. The complaints I remember hearing most frequently (I am *not* discussing if the complaints have some merits or not): - not transparent: some decisions are taken by some old-timers and not always communicated fast enough to the people affected. - long release cycles: I guess this is something that has its cause not only in the organisational structure, but also in the people that fill the roles. Most people relevant to the release process in Debian have stability as their top goal, and release schedules are unimportant to them. My guess is that when the same organisational model would be used, but with other people, the situation could be different. - package owners: most packages in Debian are owned by one person. When this person neglects the package, quality suffers. Group maintainership etc. are one possible solution to this. Just my €.02 cheers -- vbi -- Windows: the ultimate triumph of marketing over technology. pgp5bsOllfY5b.pgp Description: signature
Re: Usage of Debian Structure Documentation, Social Contract etc
On Friday 27 February 2004 15.33, Colin Watson wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2004 at 02:50:17PM +0100, Adrian von Bidder wrote: - long release cycles: I guess this is something that has its cause not only in the organisational structure, but also in the people that fill the roles. Most people relevant to the release process in Debian have stability as their top goal, and release schedules are unimportant to them. My guess is that when the same organisational model would be used, but with other people, the situation could be different. While I agree with you that other projects should consider whether adopting Debian's organizational structure has an effect on this, I believe that your release schedules are unimportant to them comment above is a mischaracterization. Probably - what I meant to say was that release schedules are far less important than stability and consistency in the release. I hope nobody is offended. cheers -- vbi -- QOTD: Lack of planning on your part doesn't consitute an emergency on my part. pgpXmODcl7YFC.pgp Description: signature
Re: Trusted Debian/Adamantix
On Tuesday 09 September 2003 19:54, Josip Rodin wrote: On Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 02:50:52AM +1000, Martin Michlmayr - Debian Project Leader wrote: First, many people are not aware that Debian is a trademark. I have therefore asked the webmasters to add a trademark statement to the footer of our web site and this was done on 2003-07-19. This probably doesn't do so much to make people aware, but it does provide a vast potential to clutter up the page footers. We should move it all into the legal information page, along with a trademark acknowledgement for Linux and whatever else. I think it would be ok to mention Debian's own (tm) in the footer, but I agree that it shouldn't lead to a 10-page disclaimer because all other (tm)s should be acknowledged, too. But even having all 3rd party (tm)s on the legalese page, I feel it is right that Debian mentions its own directly in the page footer. IANADD, YMMV and all that -- vbi -- featured product: PostgreSQL - http://postgresql.org pgppc0aEgp18a.pgp Description: signature
