Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Mart van de Wege]

Gene Heskett  writes:

> On Sunday 18 January 2015 18:21:02 Mart van de Wege did opine
> And Gene did reply:
>> Gene Heskett  writes:
>> > On Sunday 18 January 2015 14:12:03 Joe did opine
>> > 
>> >> I don't have Gnome on the workstation either, but
>> >> I do have various Gnome bits such as Nautilus. It really should be
>> >> possible to avoid NM, but probably not without some effort.
>> > 
>> > Using information that it seems to me, is deliberately withheld from
>> > the user.  Or I have not learned in 80 years, how to ask the right
>> > question..
>> 
>> apt-get remove network-manager seems to work just fine for me.
>> 
>> Mart
>
> I have attempted that, several times in the past 5 or 6 years.  The list 
> of stuff it will also remove is usually several printed pages, IF you 
> could actually get a printout.

Eh, no?

mvdwege@gaheris:~$ apt-cache rdepends network-manager | wc -l
40

And that includes all packages for which nm is a dependency, not just
a hard Depends: *and* i386 packages (I run multi-arch).

And note that that this is an rdepends search. I have only 4 of those 40
packages installed (and 2 of those only by accident).

And taking a look at the list, there's a lot of non-essential stuff on
there. About the only thing I'd consider anything near 'essential' is
evolution, and that is only a Suggests: dependency.


> Unfortunately, you can't even copy/paste for a record from that screen
> by any method but a screen snapshot series.
>
What is so difficult about 'select text, middle button paste'?

I really wanted to cut you some slack, but I am forced to conclude that
your problem is between the chair and the keyboard.

Mart

-- 
"We will need a longer wall when the revolution comes."
--- AJS, quoting an uncertain source.


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Re: Foolproof disk device name in fstab

[David Wright]

Quoting Frank Miles (f...@u.washington.edu):
> On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 03:50:01 +0100, andmalc wrote:
> 
> > I have a Jessie VPS with external disks attached.  The disks are
> > specified in /etc/fstab with traditional /dev/sdXX naming.  I recently
> > made changes to the disks that made a device name invalid but didn't
> > notice. When I rebooted, the disk couldn't be found and boot halted in
> > rescue mode.
> > 
> > My question is: how can I specify devices in fstab so if they can't be
> > found boot proceeds proceeds normally instead of halting?  Would
> > mounting with systemd with the 'device-timeout' option as described here
> > be a good way?
> > 
> > https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/fstab#Automount_with_systemd

That's a handy page that I hadn't happened upon before.

> Regardless of whether you use systemd or some other init system, using
> UUIDs is supposed to be less susceptible.

I find that LABELs are easier to use with external disks. That way I
can have partitions called lulu01, lulu02, lulu03 and lulu4 on a disk
where  "lulu" is written on the outside of disk itself. (And because
I've moved internal drives between machines a fair bit, I admit to
doing the same with them.)

> You can get the proper UUIDs using blkid() (see its man page).  Use of
> UUIDs is at least partially explained in the fstab man page.

... and   udevadm info /dev/foo   lists more than you needs to know
about disks and their partitions (or look in /run/udev/data/b8...

BTW, since moving post-wheezy, I've wondered whether   man fstab
is correct in saying:

  "The order of records in fstab is important because fsck(8),
   mount(8), and umount(8) sequentially iterate through fstab
   doing their thing."

The archlinux reference (above) seems more accurate:

  "These definitions will be converted into systemd mount units
   dynamically at boot, and when the configuration of the system
   manager is reloaded."

Cheers,
David.


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Re: video chat in gmail using iceweasel is not working

[tv.debian]

On the 19/01/2015 06:02, kamaraju kusumanchi wrote:

When I try to do a video chat in gmail, the video is not working. It
used to work a while ago and stopped working recently. This is most
likely due to updating some of the packages. I am trying to narrow
down the problematic package.

Symptom:
In gmail -> settings -> Chat -> Voice and video chat -> Verify your settings ->

The "Camera:" section shows UVC Camera (046d:0990). However, instead
of displaying the video from the webcam, it shows

"A plugin is needed to display this content."

Hardware:
rajulocal@hogwarts ~ % lsusb
Bus 006 Device 003: ID 046d:0990 Logitech, Inc. QuickCam Pro 9000
Some series of this webcam have intermittent problems due to a firmware 
bug, they can "disappear" from system or otherwise freeze/crash 
applications. You can see [1] as a starting point for investigation.
If your device is affected you can try unplugging the webcam, 
unloading/reloading uvcvideo, and replugging the webcam. Effect of the 
bug is not persistent over a reboot, but survives a sleep/wake-up cycle.



[...trim]
System configuration:
I am using a mix of Debian Jessie and Wheezy

The complete list of insalled packages can be found at
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-OMw5Fsje3kWHFESENPQ3RFSXM/view?usp=sharing
which is generated by running
$ dpkg -l | grep ^ii

But here are the main ones
rajulocal@hogwarts ~ % dpkg -l iceweasel google\* \*flash\* | grep ^ii
ii  flashplugin-nonfree 1:3.6.1amd64Adobe Flash
Player - browser plugin
ii  google-talkplugin   5.38.6.0-1 amd64Google Talk Plugin
ii  iceweasel   31.4.0esr-1~deb7u1 amd64Web browser
based on Firefox

Question:
Is video chat in gmail using iceweasel working for anyone running
Jessie? If so, can you please share your list of installed packages?
This way I can compare version numbers and narrow down the problematic
version of the package.
It was working for me as of last week-end, with Iceweasel "esr" on a 
Jessie/Sid amd64 updated.


Note that due to a recent change you have to explicitly allow the 
googletalk/hangout plugin to run, either every time you want to use 
video chat or choosing "always allow". Firefox/Iceweasel should pop up a 
warning about this, or display some sort of lego block immediatly on the 
left of the URL in the URL bar. If you click on the "Lego" block you 
should be given the option. At least it works like this here.



thanks in advance
raju


Hope it helps.

[1] http://www.ideasonboard.org/uvc/#footnote-6


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Re: aptitude unhold how

[Rusi Mody]

On Monday, January 19, 2015 at 10:50:04 AM UTC+5:30, Rusi Mody wrote:
> Running testing
> 
> While trying to upgrade, listbugs was giving a bunch of
> critical/grave errors.
> 
> Ran 
> $ aptitude hold
> 
> on all these packages then did upgrade.
> 
> One of these packages was dpkg
> 
> Now after upgrade tried running
> aptitude unhold dpkg
> 
> However still...
> 
> synaptic shows it as 1.17.13 both installed and latest
> and no upgradation possible
> 
> https://packages.debian.org/jessie/dpkg
> shows it as 1.17.23

Yeah synaptic and aptitude (and dpkg) dont mix too well
especially wrt pinning

http://askubuntu.com/questions/18654/how-to-prevent-updating-of-a-specific-package

However cant find dpkg in aptitude(!!)
[Yeah I am not very adept at aptitude curses-gui]
Can only see
dpkg:i386
and
dpkg-repack


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 18 January 2015 17:11:55 Andrew M.A. Cater did opine
And Gene did reply:
> On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 06:29:46AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Sunday 18 January 2015 05:40:43 Andrew M.A. Cater did opine
> > [Gene]
> > Oh it usually does, until the initial reboot, at which time network
> > mangler steps in and destroys your work.
> 
> ... stuff snipped by Andy ...
> 
> > But no, thats too damned simple so it will never be done.
> 
> From the README.Debian on a system that has network-manager installed
> [in /usr/share/doc/README.Debian]
> 
> --
> 
> unmanaged devices and /etc/network/interfaces
> ~
> 
> Network devices which are configured in /etc/network/interfaces will
> typically be managed by ifupdown. Such devices will by default be
> marked as "unmanaged" in NetworkManager.
> 
> You can tell NetworkManager to read and use the network configuration
> from /etc/network/interfaces by editing
> /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf and changing the configuration
> as follows:
> 
>   [ifupdown]
>   managed=true
> 
> After modifying /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf or
> /etc/network/interfaces you need to restart the NetworkManager service
> via "service network-manager restart".
> 
> It needs to be considered though that the network interface will also
> still be managed by ifupdown. This can lead to unexpected behaviour if
> two network configuration systems manage the same device.
> 
> If you want to have a network interface managed by NetworkManager it is
> thus recommended to manually remove any configuration for that
> interface from /etc/network/interfaces.
> 
> --
> 
> An expert install in which you force the network addresses as I suggest
> should write /etc/network/interfaces correctly - which will
> effectively disable NM.
> 
> > [Andy]
> > 
> > > The key if you've stuff that's non standard is to do an Expert
> > > install.
> > 
> > What is "non-standard" about an /etc/hosts file based network? 
> > Nothing. I dare say it was invented long before dhcp.  And dns
> > servers.
> 
> These days a lot of people pick up addresses via DHCP from wireless
> access points / 3G GSM dongles / a pool of addresses from a wired
> network - or just an ISP modem/router (though that will normally give
> you a very long lease so, effectively, a static address). That's for
> IPV4. IPV6 may give you effectively, a static address, automagically
> generated and based on machine characteristics.
> 
> In that sense, a network of static addresses is now more unusual.
> 
> > > The other disks will be useful if you ever have to bootstrap a
> > > complete machine without access to a network: apt-cdrom add is
> > > then used to add the disks to your machine so that the package
> > > management system understands whtihc packages are on which disk.
> > > 
> > > Hope this helps,
> > > 
> > > All the best,
> > > 
> > > AndyC
> > 
> > It would help immensely AndyC, IF that is how it actually worked.
> > Sadly, it has not. IIRC the last install where it worked was mandrake
> > on my now ancient lappy about a dozen years back.  Before network
> > mangler? Maybe...
> 
> I've explained this in a few various posts over the years: if you have
> no network at all and have to install on a completely isolated
> machine, that's when you may need the 10 or more DVDs. Install a bare
> base system from the first one, add each disk via loop mount and
> apt-cdrom add.
> 
> After that, you can add packages and apt-get will prompt you for disk
> changes ... that's about the _only_ time that you need all the disk
> images rather than the first DVD. If you need to generate DVDs after
> DVD3, use jigdo to build them from your nearest mirror.
> 
> Me, I much prefer to use the netinst install. I do have fast broadband
> which really helps: there's also the fact that the install itself does
> a check on line so that all the latest base system updates are
> included by the time you reboot.
> 
> > But, in the unlikely event it might, I will try that when I go to do
> > the next install, probably some time in the coming week as the
> > weather people are telling us to bring in our brass monkeys again. 
> > Hopefully I can get some machining done on 2 big slabs of Mahogany
> > before then, but the cnc milling machine is located in an
> > un-insulated outbuilding with hopefully enough electrical heat to
> > keep it above the dew point.
> 
> Good luck: be safe - electricity, even at 110V, and water / damp don't
> mix. Happy to help someone who's prepared to _do_ stuff so well.

As a C.E.T., with what used to be a 1st phone ticket until the commission 
threw us under the bus, with an 8th grade education who has been lassoing 
electrons to make them do useful work for the last 65 years, I have been 
nailed several times, but each time he indicated he was not ready for me.
Once was pretty bad, put me horizontal with the shingles for about a 
month.

Quite used to the safety precautions associated wit

Re: Foolproof disk device name in fstab

[Rusi Mody]

On Monday, January 19, 2015 at 10:20:04 AM UTC+5:30, cassiope wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 03:50:01 +0100, andmalc wrote:
> 
> > I have a Jessie VPS with external disks attached.  The disks are
> > specified in /etc/fstab with traditional /dev/sdXX naming.  I recently
> > made changes to the disks that made a device name invalid but didn't
> > notice. When I rebooted, the disk couldn't be found and boot halted in
> > rescue mode.
> > 
> > My question is: how can I specify devices in fstab so if they can't be
> > found boot proceeds proceeds normally instead of halting?  Would
> > mounting with systemd with the 'device-timeout' option as described here
> > be a good way?
> > 
> > https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/fstab#Automount_with_systemd
> 
> Regardless of whether you use systemd or some other init system, using
> UUIDs is supposed to be less susceptible.
> 
> You can get the proper UUIDs using blkid() (see its man page).  Use of
> UUIDs is at least partially explained in the fstab man page.

Somewhere between UUIDs and /dev/sd* is LABELs
[On gpt disk PARTLABEL's also]
I prefer these though they dont always work eg
grub does not have the necessary options to completely switch to
labels


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aptitude unhold how

[Rusi Mody]

Running testing

While trying to upgrade, listbugs was giving a bunch of
critical/grave errors.

Ran 
$ aptitude hold

on all these packages then did upgrade.

One of these packages was dpkg

Now after upgrade tried running
aptitude unhold dpkg

However still...

synaptic shows it as 1.17.13 both installed and latest
and no upgradation possible

https://packages.debian.org/jessie/dpkg
shows it as 1.17.23


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Re: Foolproof disk device name in fstab

[Joe Pfeiffer]

andmalc  writes:

> I have a Jessie VPS with external disks attached.  The disks are specified
> in /etc/fstab with traditional /dev/sdXX naming.  I recently made
> changes to the disks that made a device name invalid but didn't
> notice. When I rebooted, the disk couldn't be found and boot halted in
> rescue mode.
>
> My question is: how can I specify devices in fstab so if they can't be
> found boot proceeds proceeds normally instead of halting?  Would
> mounting with systemd with the 'device-timeout' option as described
> here be a good way?
>
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/fstab#Automount_with_systemd

Use UUIDs.  A typical line in my /etc/fstab looks like

UUID=edef6980-c414-4718-952e-a6b5e41204c3 /   ext4
errors=remount-ro 0   1

Here's an introduction to them:

https://liquidat.wordpress.com/2013/03/13/uuids-and-linux-everything-you-ever-need-to-know/


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Re: Foolproof disk device name in fstab

[Frank Miles]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 03:50:01 +0100, andmalc wrote:

> I have a Jessie VPS with external disks attached.  The disks are
> specified in /etc/fstab with traditional /dev/sdXX naming.  I recently
> made changes to the disks that made a device name invalid but didn't
> notice. When I rebooted, the disk couldn't be found and boot halted in
> rescue mode.
> 
> My question is: how can I specify devices in fstab so if they can't be
> found boot proceeds proceeds normally instead of halting?  Would
> mounting with systemd with the 'device-timeout' option as described here
> be a good way?
> 
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/fstab#Automount_with_systemd

Regardless of whether you use systemd or some other init system, using
UUIDs is supposed to be less susceptible.

You can get the proper UUIDs using blkid() (see its man page).  Use of
UUIDs is at least partially explained in the fstab man page.

  HTH-


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Re: Laptop advice

[Gary Dale]

On 18/01/15 03:35 PM, Doug wrote:

On 01/18/2015 12:21 PM, Gary Dale wrote:

On 18/01/15 10:29 AM, j...@ageinggracefully.ca wrote:
I have never installed used nor installed linux on a laptop ($500 - 
$600),
however I have decided to buy one but before doing so I need some 
advice. These

are the questions that come to mind.

1. Graphics radeon or nvidia? I have nvidia on my desktop but have no
experience with radeon.
2. WiFi what to avoid?
3. Dual boot? What problems should I expect?

I will install Jessie from a thumb drive and upgrade to testing when 
Jessie

becomes stable.



I generally prefer Radeon. Their drivers are often a bit better - 
especially the open source ones. NVidea has has some people swearing 
at them instead pf by them.  :)


Most wifi just works. If it doesn't, you can get a really cheap USB 
wifi adapter.


Dual-booting shouldn't create problems by itself. However Windows 
doesn't like having its partitions shrunk. I recommend doing a full 
backup before shrinking the Windows partition then booting into 
Windows immediately afterward.



Various folks differ on Radeon vs. Nvidia, but I won't get into that 
except to say that my Dell laptop uses Nvidia and it works fine.


But the other question: I have heard that the best way to shrink 
Windows partitions is to use the Windows system itself to do so.
Somewhere there will be instructions--Google is your friend. I used 
GParted, and I had some trouble, not knowing about the Windows
capability. If I were to do it again, I would definitely use the 
Windows software to shrink the partitions.


--doug


The problem with Windows is that it won't shrink partitions very much in 
many cases. It seems to put some "unmovable" files at the end of a 
partition and won't let you shrink it smaller than their location. I 
don't know what the files are so I usually do a complete backup, use 
gparted to shrink the partition, restart in Windows to have it fix the 
file system, then copy the backed-up files back.


I don't know if this is overkill, but Windows is finicky enough without 
having some files missing or damaged.



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Re: Laptop advice

[Rusi Mody]

On Monday, January 19, 2015 at 4:40:04 AM UTC+5:30, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 10:59:07AM -0800, Rusi Mody wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 18, 2015 at 10:20:05 PM UTC+5:30, 
> > jo...@ageinggracefully.ca wrote:
> > > I have never installed used nor installed linux on a laptop ($500 - $600),
> > 
> > > 3. Dual boot? What problems should I expect?
> > 
> > Modern uefi/gpt machines can give special challenges for which
> > Ive found this helpful:
> > 
> > http://askubuntu.com/questions/221835/installing-ubuntu-on-a-pre-installed-windows-8-64-bit-system-uefi-supported
> > 
> 
> This is all for Ubuntu - which may / may not be at all similar.

The ubuntu stuff may or may not match
The stuff which is worth noting carefully is
- shutting down windows in full shutdown (not hibernate) mode
- partition from windows not linux.
  I prefer to break off the chunk in windows and then further 
partition in linux
- choice of secure/legacy settings in the bios
  These may not match but its good to know
  [Does debian have a signed image?]


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Re: Laptop advice

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 18 Jan 2015, Celejar wrote:

> On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 10:52:33 -0800
> Patrick Bartek  wrote:
> 
> ...
> 
> > I avoid Intel wifi chips.  In fact, I try to avoid ALL Intel stuff
> > even CPUs.
> 
> You don't say why, but AFAIK Intel wireless chipsets have some of the
> best linux support out there, with manufacturer provided support:
> 
> http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/iwlwifi

In the past, I had problems with Intel wifi chip sets.  So, I just
avoided them.  Maybe, Intel's support is better today.  I don't
know.  I've never bothered to check.

The reason I generally avoid ALL Intel products is a number of
years ago, Intel flat out lied to me.  And knew it.  And I caught them
at it. When I called them on it, they tried to lie their way
out of the first lie. With me, it only takes one to loose me as a
customer.

B  


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video chat in gmail using iceweasel is not working

[kamaraju kusumanchi]

When I try to do a video chat in gmail, the video is not working. It
used to work a while ago and stopped working recently. This is most
likely due to updating some of the packages. I am trying to narrow
down the problematic package.

Symptom:
In gmail -> settings -> Chat -> Voice and video chat -> Verify your settings ->

The "Camera:" section shows UVC Camera (046d:0990). However, instead
of displaying the video from the webcam, it shows

"A plugin is needed to display this content."

Hardware:
rajulocal@hogwarts ~ % lsusb
Bus 006 Device 003: ID 046d:0990 Logitech, Inc. QuickCam Pro 9000
Bus 006 Device 002: ID 058f:6362 Alcor Micro Corp. Flash Card Reader/Writer
Bus 006 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 008 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 007 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 005 Device 004: ID 24f0:0140
Bus 005 Device 003: ID 2109:2812
Bus 005 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 04fc:05d8 Sunplus Technology Co., Ltd Wireless
keyboard/mouse
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub

System configuration:
I am using a mix of Debian Jessie and Wheezy

The complete list of insalled packages can be found at
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-OMw5Fsje3kWHFESENPQ3RFSXM/view?usp=sharing
which is generated by running
$ dpkg -l | grep ^ii

But here are the main ones
rajulocal@hogwarts ~ % dpkg -l iceweasel google\* \*flash\* | grep ^ii
ii  flashplugin-nonfree 1:3.6.1amd64Adobe Flash
Player - browser plugin
ii  google-talkplugin   5.38.6.0-1 amd64Google Talk Plugin
ii  iceweasel   31.4.0esr-1~deb7u1 amd64Web browser
based on Firefox

Question:
Is video chat in gmail using iceweasel working for anyone running
Jessie? If so, can you please share your list of installed packages?
This way I can compare version numbers and narrow down the problematic
version of the package.

thanks in advance
raju
-- 
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi
http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 18 January 2015 18:21:02 Mart van de Wege did opine
And Gene did reply:
> Gene Heskett  writes:
> > On Sunday 18 January 2015 14:12:03 Joe did opine
> > 
> >> I don't have Gnome on the workstation either, but
> >> I do have various Gnome bits such as Nautilus. It really should be
> >> possible to avoid NM, but probably not without some effort.
> > 
> > Using information that it seems to me, is deliberately withheld from
> > the user.  Or I have not learned in 80 years, how to ask the right
> > question..
> 
> apt-get remove network-manager seems to work just fine for me.
> 
> Mart

I have attempted that, several times in the past 5 or 6 years.  The list 
of stuff it will also remove is usually several printed pages, IF you 
could actually get a printout. Unfortunately, you can't even copy/paste 
for a record from that screen by any method but a screen snapshot series.

All this is a big sigh, and a list of things that could make it simpler to 
do if a record of what it proposes to remove could be had, but before the 
fact so one could do his own homework and make some more intelligent 
choices.

Thanks Mart.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS


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Foolproof disk device name in fstab

[andmalc]

I have a Jessie VPS with external disks attached.  The disks are specified
in /etc/fstab with traditional /dev/sdXX naming.  I recently made changes to 
the disks that made a device name invalid but didn't notice. When I rebooted, 
the disk couldn't be found and boot halted in rescue mode.

My question is: how can I specify devices in fstab so if they can't be found 
boot proceeds proceeds normally instead of halting?  Would mounting with 
systemd with the 'device-timeout' option as described here be a good way?

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/fstab#Automount_with_systemd


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Re: Find obsolete packages without using aptitude?

[Bob Proulx]

Fredrik Jonson wrote:
> Jörg-Volker Peetz wrote:
> >  Bob Proulx wrote on 01/14/2015 06:25:
> > > Fredrik Jonson wrote:
> > > > I'm trying to find obsolete packages on a system that's been
> > > > dist-upgraded. How would you [do that without using] aptitude?
> > > 
> > > Try this:
> > > 
> > >   apt-show-versions | grep -v uptodate
> > 
> >  This doesn't show all the results "aptitude search ~o" finds on my system
> >  [...] This shell command works for me:
> > 
> >  awk '/^Package: / {print $2}' /var/lib/dpkg/status | sort |
> >  (awk '/^Package: / {print $2}' /var/lib/apt/lists/*_Packages | sort |
> >  comm -23 --nocheck-order /dev/fd/3 -) 3<&0
> 
> Interesting. The shell command above indeed does include more packages that
> are obsolete on my system too.
> 
> As far as I can tell the difference is that your awk command
> includes packages that have been removed but not purged, while
> apt-show-versions ignores non-purged packages that have only config
> files left.

Hmm...  If you have removed but not purged packages they aren't
installed packages.  So this difference isn't surprising.

I think everyone should be worried about removed but not purged
packages too.  Otherwise they are a source of lint that builds up on a
system.  They are a very useful inbetween status for packages.  Local
modifications can remain on the system in /etc and the package can be
quickly installed again and resume from the previous configuration.

But between major release upgrades they cause problems.  For example
files in /etc/init.d/* previously did not have LSB tags and now they
are required.  For example at some point in the future files from the
pre-systemd era will be problematic in a post-systemd one.  For
example there has been a lot of problems with php packages loading
shared libraries where there isn't a way to conditionally load them
based upon existence.  (Currently /etc crontabs always conditionally
load based upon file existence to work within the removed but not
purged state of things for example.)

Having a good backup mitigates the fear of purging a package.  With a
full backup of /etc any package can be purged and then if the local
admin wants to reverse that and install the package again the previous
configuration can be restored from backup.

Using a tool such as etckeeper also keeps track of files in /etc.
That is very useful.  I have become a convert to using etckeeper.
That also provides a good safety net for purging packages.

The easiest way to find removed but not purged is with grep.

  dpkg -l | grep ^rc

Or since I like grep-status and friends this can be done precisely
using it too.

  grep-status -sPackage -n -FStatus "deinstall ok config-files"

Purging lib packages should be very safe.  After reviewing the list I
often do it on the command line.

  dpkg --purge $(grep-status -sPackage -n -FStatus "deinstall ok config-files" 
| grep ^lib)

I do that for non-lib packages too but only after reviewing the list.

Bob


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Mart van de Wege]

Gene Heskett  writes:

> On Sunday 18 January 2015 14:12:03 Joe did opine
>
>> I don't have Gnome on the workstation either, but
>> I do have various Gnome bits such as Nautilus. It really should be
>> possible to avoid NM, but probably not without some effort.
>
> Using information that it seems to me, is deliberately withheld from the 
> user.  Or I have not learned in 80 years, how to ask the right question..
>

apt-get remove network-manager seems to work just fine for me.

Mart

-- 
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--- AJS, quoting an uncertain source.


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Mart van de Wege]

Joe  writes:

> On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 14:52:29 -0500
> Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
>
>> 
>> So how did you kill NM on your workstation?
>
> It was never there. It's a dependency of quite a lot of stuff, notably
> evolution

Here on my laptop (running Sid) it's not. I can remove it, and the only
thing that gets removed along with it is network-manager-gnome.

Evolution *used* to have a bug where it didn't want to work online
unless network manager was installed, but that's the only thing I ever
found getting in the way.

My home network is mixed DHCP and static addresses, all my systems run
Networkmanager, and everything works fine.

Mart

-- 
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--- AJS, quoting an uncertain source.


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Re: Laptop advice

[David Christensen]

On 01/18/2015 07:29 AM, j...@ageinggracefully.ca wrote:

I have never installed used nor installed linux on a laptop ($500 - $600),
however I have decided to buy one but before doing so I need some advice. These
are the questions that come to mind.
1. Graphics radeon or nvidia? I have nvidia on my desktop but have no
experience with radeon.
2. WiFi what to avoid?
3. Dual boot? What problems should I expect?
I will install Jessie from a thumb drive and upgrade to testing when Jessie
becomes stable.


Checking Linux hardware compatibility a priori is very difficult. 
Product manufacturers deal with product lines, model numbers, version 
numbers, etc., and don't release the schematic and bill of materials. 
Linux kernel developers deal with specific make, model, HW version, 
and/or FW version chips.  Linux packagers deal with kernel, driver, 
firmware, and/or software packages and versions.  Software developers 
potentially have to deal with everything.  Cross indexing this morass is 
next to impossible.  The only way to find out if Linux distribution A 
edition B version C works on make D line E model/version F computer is 
to install it and test.  If A is "Debian", you might want to post here 
using D, E, F as the subject, ask if anyone runs that, and ask what is B 
and C.



As for graphics, I prefer integrated Intel HD graphics (GMA on older 
machines).  They work with lots of OS's -- Windows, Linux, BSD, and 
others.  Beware that the newest chips require the newest kernels, 
graphics drivers, etc..  Also, beware of Intel chips with PowerVR 
graphics (Atom, maybe others?) -- they are proprietary and FOSS support 
is poor.



As for dual-boot, I hate it.  I recently tried installing Debian on USB 
flash drives, and found that it works.  The 16 GB SanDisk Cruzer Fit USB 
3.0 drives are very compact and only stick out 7 mm when installed (so 
there is little risk of breaking them off).  They can max out a USB 2.0 
port (~40 MBps).  While a traditional HDD may have higher throughput 
numbers, flash wins on latency and overall responsiveness.  It's a 
poor-man's flash drive for $10.



I see a couple of options:

1.  Buy a new laptop from a vendor who knows how to put both Windows and 
Linux on it correctly, and will back up their claim with a 30+ day 
money-back guarantee.


2.  Try installing Linux onto a flash drive on a new or used laptop 
before purchasing.  As another posted suggested, older machines with 
BIOS/MBR technology should be the most likely to work correctly.  If you 
get an older machine and Linux works on it, maxing out the RAM and/or 
replacing the HDD with an SSD will make it more responsive.



HTH,

David


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Re: Laptop advice

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 10:59:07AM -0800, Rusi Mody wrote:
> On Sunday, January 18, 2015 at 10:20:05 PM UTC+5:30, 
> jo...@ageinggracefully.ca wrote:
> > I have never installed used nor installed linux on a laptop ($500 - $600),
> 
> > 3. Dual boot? What problems should I expect?
> 
> Modern uefi/gpt machines can give special challenges for which
> Ive found this helpful:
> 
> http://askubuntu.com/questions/221835/installing-ubuntu-on-a-pre-installed-windows-8-64-bit-system-uefi-supported
> 

This is all for Ubuntu - which may / may not be at all similar.

The install medium for Debian 7.8 should boot on UEFI and install grub 
appropriately.

The installer for Debian testing - which will be Debian 8 soon - installs just 
fine.
Steve McIntyre has also produced a beta version for testing which will install 
on
the Intel based laptops which have 32 bit UEFI and 64 bit chipsets - things 
like 
the Bay Trail Asus machines.

There is now also a list - debian-efi - newly set up for discussion of EFI.

All the best,

AndyC

> 
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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 06:29:46AM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Sunday 18 January 2015 05:40:43 Andrew M.A. Cater did opine
> [Gene]
> Oh it usually does, until the initial reboot, at which time network 
> mangler steps in and destroys your work. 
... stuff snipped by Andy ... 
> 
> But no, thats too damned simple so it will never be done.

>From the README.Debian on a system that has network-manager installed [in
/usr/share/doc/README.Debian]

--

unmanaged devices and /etc/network/interfaces
~

Network devices which are configured in /etc/network/interfaces will typically
be managed by ifupdown. Such devices will by default be marked as "unmanaged"
in NetworkManager.

You can tell NetworkManager to read and use the network configuration from
/etc/network/interfaces by editing /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf
and changing the configuration as follows:

  [ifupdown]
  managed=true

After modifying /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf or
/etc/network/interfaces you need to restart the NetworkManager service via
"service network-manager restart".

It needs to be considered though that the network interface will also still be
managed by ifupdown. This can lead to unexpected behaviour if two network
configuration systems manage the same device.

If you want to have a network interface managed by NetworkManager it is thus
recommended to manually remove any configuration for that interface from
/etc/network/interfaces.

--

An expert install in which you force the network addresses as I suggest should
write /etc/network/interfaces correctly - which will effectively disable NM.

> [Andy]
> > The key if you've stuff that's non standard is to do an Expert install.
> 
> What is "non-standard" about an /etc/hosts file based network?  Nothing. I 
> dare say it was invented long before dhcp.  And dns servers.

These days a lot of people pick up addresses via DHCP from wireless access 
points
/ 3G GSM dongles / a pool of addresses from a wired network - or just an ISP 
modem/router (though that will normally give you a very long lease so, 
effectively,
a static address). That's for IPV4. IPV6 may give you effectively, a static 
address,
automagically generated and based on machine characteristics. 

In that sense, a network of static addresses is now more unusual.

> 
> > The other disks will be useful if you ever have to bootstrap a complete
> > machine without access to a network: apt-cdrom add is then used to add
> > the disks to your machine so that the package management system
> > understands whtihc packages are on which disk.
> > 
> > Hope this helps,
> > 
> > All the best,
> > 
> > AndyC
> 
> 
> It would help immensely AndyC, IF that is how it actually worked.
> Sadly, it has not. IIRC the last install where it worked was mandrake on 
> my now ancient lappy about a dozen years back.  Before network mangler?  
> Maybe...

I've explained this in a few various posts over the years: if you have no
network at all and have to install on a completely isolated machine, that's 
when 
you may need the 10 or more DVDs. Install a bare base system from the first one,
add each disk via loop mount and apt-cdrom add. 

After that, you can add packages and apt-get will prompt you for disk changes 
... that's about the _only_ time that you need all the disk images rather than 
the first DVD. If you need to generate DVDs after DVD3, use jigdo to build them 
from your nearest mirror.

Me, I much prefer to use the netinst install. I do have fast broadband which
really helps: there's also the fact that the install itself does a check on line
so that all the latest base system updates are included by the time you reboot.

> 
> But, in the unlikely event it might, I will try that when I go to do the 
> next install, probably some time in the coming week as the weather people 
> are telling us to bring in our brass monkeys again.  Hopefully I can get 
> some machining done on 2 big slabs of Mahogany before then, but the cnc 
> milling machine is located in an un-insulated outbuilding with hopefully 
> enough electrical heat to keep it above the dew point.

Good luck: be safe - electricity, even at 110V, and water / damp don't mix.
Happy to help someone who's prepared to _do_ stuff so well.

All the very best,

AndyC 

[amaca...@galactic.demon.co.uk / amaca...@debian.org - I've been a
Debian developer for a while now :) ]

> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> -- 
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> Genes Web page 
> US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS
> 


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Recording sound from a web page

[Marc Shapiro]

I am trying to record sound that is playing in firefox, or chrome. I am 
using Audacity 2.0.1 on Wheezy.  I am trying to find an input device 
that gets the sound straight from the browser output.  I can plug in a 
patch cord from speaker to mic and record that way, but I am getting a 
clicking in the background that I can't seem to get rid of.  I would 
prefer if Audacity simply used the speaker output directly without a 
patch cord.  Is there a way to do this?  I tried VLC (version 2.0.6) but 
had no luck finding the desired input there, either.  Is there some 
other package that will do this better?


Marc


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Joe]

On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 14:52:29 -0500
Gene Heskett  wrote:


> 
> So how did you kill NM on your workstation?

It was never there. It's a dependency of quite a lot of stuff, notably
evolution and ppp, but since I use neither I don't need it. But the
Gnome metapackage includes evolution, so if you just ask for 'Gnome',
you get NM.

This is an unstable installation with systemd deliberately installed
early in the process, so it's a bit unusual. As far as I recall:

wheezy netinstall with no options selected, so no X, DE, etc.
update/upgrade (I didn't bother getting the latest netinstall)
dist-upgrade to unstable
install systemd plus dependencies
install an edited set-selections from a previous unstable

The previous unstable had been upgraded with systemd, and had proved
to be, well, unstable. So I did a get-selections, trimmed it a bit, and
built a new installation as above, with systemd installed early, before
most other software. Stability is much better now.


> 
> Using information that it seems to me, is deliberately withheld from
> the user.  Or I have not learned in 80 years, how to ask the right
> question..
> 

I would try (as I have done for a couple of years) a completely
Gnome-less installation (I'm using Xfce as my DE these days), then add
the bits that I want, hoping that not too much bloat gets pulled in with
them. I like Nautilus and gedit more than the alternatives, and I'm
willing to put up with a bit of extra stuff to get them, similarly
Konqueror and k3b and one or two other KDE bits.

The various metapackages are very useful for beginners, but if there's
something a bit objectionable dragged in, then it's best to install
just the bits you actually want, and trust apt-get/aptitude to do the
right things with them. You should be able to make a minimal
installation of Xfce or LXDE and then install kmail, which should
hopefully only bring in the minimum necessary library support. If you
don't like the DE, you can install another, or just a window manager,
then make sure that starts instead of the initial DE.

-- 
Joe


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Re: Require libcudart.so.5.5

[Sven Joachim]

On 2015-01-18 21:39 +0100, Stepen P. Molnar wrote:

> I am running Debian Testing and require an earlier version of
> libcudart.so.6.0.37-5, specifically libcudart.so.5.5.  I tried
> searching debian.org with no luck.
>
> I need the older version in order to be able to run one of my quantum
> chemistry applications.  Unfortunately, i don't have the source code,
> nor is it available.
>
> Where might possibly find the earlier version of the library?

On snapshot.debian.org: http://snapshot.debian.org/binary/libcudart5.5/

Cheers,
   Sven


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Re: Laptop advice

[Celejar]

On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 10:52:33 -0800
Patrick Bartek  wrote:

...

> I avoid Intel wifi chips.  In fact, I try to avoid ALL Intel stuff
> even CPUs.

You don't say why, but AFAIK Intel wireless chipsets have some of the
best linux support out there, with manufacturer provided support:

http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/iwlwifi

My Thinkpad (T61) has been running quite well for years with its
PRO/Wireless 4965:

http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/iwlegacy
https://wiki.debian.org/iwlegacy

Celejar


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Re: Laptop advice

[Hans]

> I mentioned in another post to use the Windows software to shrink its size
> to make room for Linux. That's still what I recommend. However:
> Does GParted work with the UEFI/GPT system? If not, is there a Linux program
> that does? One would wish not to have to go to Windows for any future
> partitioning needs on that drive.
> 
Maybe it is possible, to switch off UEFI in the BIOS just for the partitioning 
part. After it, install, use an UEFI-grub-bootloader and switch it on again.

However, I do not know, if gparted can handle GPT-partitions.

I never owned Win8! And Win7 should still use NTFS, which should be cause no 
problems.

However, I already saw a laptop without the possibility to switch off UEFI in 
the BIOS. What I thinking of that, I am not allowed to tell here. :) 

> --doug

Hans


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 18 January 2015 14:12:03 Joe did opine
And Gene did reply:
> On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 15:38:25 -0500
> 
> Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > Unfortunately, the last 9 debian/ubuntu flavored installs, on 4
> > machines here, have all ran up against Network-Mangler, which
> > promptly tore down any attempts I successfully made to get it online.
> 
> .
> .
> .
> .
> 
> > Sorry, but network manager is a sore spot for my local network, and
> > will be until such time as it is no longer a daemon that cannot even
> > be killed.
> > 
> > This isn't winderz folks, get rid of useless crap please.
> 
> It may not be Windows, but if you have Gnome, it nearly is. How about a
> netinstall to Xfce, then if you really, really need some of Gnome,
> install it bit by bit and not with the metapackage? It may well be
> possible to get just the bits of Gnome that you want, without NM.

I tend to be WM agnostic as long as it can run kmail.
 
> I actually deliberately have NM on my netbook, laptop and boot-anywhere
> hard drive, all without Gnome. I use wi-fi, a mobile dongle and
> OpenVPN, and it seems to deal with all of them reasonably sensibly,
> though I certainly remember a time when it was utterly useless. I do
> have DHCP at home, and of course so does everywhere I use the mobile
> stuff.
> 
> I don't have NM on my home workstation, which uses that old-fashioned
> Ethernet cable stuff.

So do I, there is about a 100' piece of cat5 that has been blowing in the 
wind for a decade, running from the house to the shop building with the 
cnc machines in it, a small hub there feeds another 75 feet that runs back 
to the garage. What you call old & slow 100 megabit stuff, it Just 
Works(TM)  Amazingly, it even survived a 112+ mph wind in 2010 that took 
part of my roof off, all the board fencing down, and took 3, 55 foot 40 YO 
pines down by breaking them off 8 feet up in the air.  But that piece of 
cat5 is still there, and still working.

So how did you kill NM on your workstation?

> I don't have Gnome on the workstation either, but
> I do have various Gnome bits such as Nautilus. It really should be
> possible to avoid NM, but probably not without some effort.

Using information that it seems to me, is deliberately withheld from the 
user.  Or I have not learned in 80 years, how to ask the right question..

Thanks Joe.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS


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Re: Laptop advice

[Doug]

On 01/18/2015 02:11 PM, Bret Busby wrote:

/snip/


I stand to be corrected if I am wrong, but my understanding is that
that information applies now to only old computers; all new Wintel and
WinAMD computers are now UEFI/GPT, rather than FAT/BIOS, and the
primary/logical partitions system, is obsolete for new computers, with
UEFI/GPT systems having up to 128 partitions, with no differentiation
between primary and extended and logical partitions.

Of course, I may be wrong, and, thence, stand to be corrected, if I am wrong.


I suggest (if you want to keep windows), to shrink the windows partition
with
gparted (there is a live dvd available), then install debian on the
unpartitioned space.



I mentioned in another post to use the Windows software to shrink its size to
make room for Linux. That's still what I recommend. However:
Does GParted work with the UEFI/GPT system? If not, is there a Linux program
that does? One would wish not to have to go to Windows for any future
partitioning needs on that drive.

--doug


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Require libcudart.so.5.5

[Stepen P. Molnar]

I am running Debian Testing and require an earlier version of 
libcudart.so.6.0.37-5, specifically libcudart.so.5.5.  I tried searching 
debian.org with no luck.


I need the older version in order to be able to run one of my quantum 
chemistry applications.  Unfortunately, i don't have the source code, 
nor is it available.


Where might possibly find the earlier version of the library?

Thanks in advance.

--
Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D.Life is a fuzzy set
Foundation for ChemistryStochastic and Multivariate
www.FoundationForChemistry.com
(614)312-7528(c)
Skype:  smolnar1


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Re: Laptop advice

[Doug]

On 01/18/2015 12:21 PM, Gary Dale wrote:

On 18/01/15 10:29 AM, j...@ageinggracefully.ca wrote:

I have never installed used nor installed linux on a laptop ($500 - $600),
however I have decided to buy one but before doing so I need some advice. These
are the questions that come to mind.

1. Graphics radeon or nvidia? I have nvidia on my desktop but have no
experience with radeon.
2. WiFi what to avoid?
3. Dual boot? What problems should I expect?

I will install Jessie from a thumb drive and upgrade to testing when Jessie
becomes stable.



I generally prefer Radeon. Their drivers are often a bit better - especially 
the open source ones. NVidea has has some people swearing at them instead pf by 
them.  :)

Most wifi just works. If it doesn't, you can get a really cheap USB wifi 
adapter.

Dual-booting shouldn't create problems by itself. However Windows doesn't like 
having its partitions shrunk. I recommend doing a full backup before shrinking 
the Windows partition then booting into Windows immediately afterward.



Various folks differ on Radeon vs. Nvidia, but I won't get into that except to 
say that my Dell laptop uses Nvidia and it works fine.

But the other question: I have heard that the best way to shrink Windows 
partitions is to use the Windows system itself to do so.
Somewhere there will be instructions--Google is your friend. I used GParted, 
and I had some trouble, not knowing about the Windows
capability. If I were to do it again, I would definitely use the Windows 
software to shrink the partitions.

--doug


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Joe]

On Sat, 17 Jan 2015 15:38:25 -0500
Gene Heskett  wrote:


> 
> Unfortunately, the last 9 debian/ubuntu flavored installs, on 4
> machines here, have all ran up against Network-Mangler, which
> promptly tore down any attempts I successfully made to get it online.

.
.
.
.

> 
> Sorry, but network manager is a sore spot for my local network, and
> will be until such time as it is no longer a daemon that cannot even
> be killed.
> 
> This isn't winderz folks, get rid of useless crap please.
> 

It may not be Windows, but if you have Gnome, it nearly is. How about a
netinstall to Xfce, then if you really, really need some of Gnome,
install it bit by bit and not with the metapackage? It may well be
possible to get just the bits of Gnome that you want, without NM.

I actually deliberately have NM on my netbook, laptop and boot-anywhere
hard drive, all without Gnome. I use wi-fi, a mobile dongle and
OpenVPN, and it seems to deal with all of them reasonably sensibly,
though I certainly remember a time when it was utterly useless. I do
have DHCP at home, and of course so does everywhere I use the mobile
stuff.

I don't have NM on my home workstation, which uses that old-fashioned
Ethernet cable stuff. I don't have Gnome on the workstation either, but
I do have various Gnome bits such as Nautilus. It really should be
possible to avoid NM, but probably not without some effort.

-- 
Joe


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Re: Laptop advice

[Bret Busby]

On 19/01/2015, Hans  wrote:
> Am Sonntag, 18. Januar 2015, 10:29:42 schrieb j...@ageinggracefully.ca:
>> I have never installed used nor installed linux on a laptop ($500 -
>> $600),
>> however I have decided to buy one but before doing so I need some advice.
>> These are the questions that come to mind.
>>
>> 1. Graphics radeon or nvidia? I have nvidia on my desktop but have no
>> experience with radeon.
> In any case: Nvidia. Works like a charm.
>

I think the simplest thing, is to try booting into a LiveCD cersion,
and checking the computer for hardware compatibility.

I have a problem that I have found, with one of my laptops having an
nVidia card that is incompatible with Debian 7, in that it will not
run an external monitor. But, then, in using that acronym that people
tend to use, "Your Monkeys May Vary".

>> 2. WiFi what to avoid?
> I would prefer Atheros. Some nice options, other wifi-cards do not possess.
>
>> 3. Dual boot? What problems should I expect?
>
> None, if you follow the standard hard-drive rules (only 4 primary partions,
> or
> 3primary + 1 extended partition parted as you wish).
>

I stand to be corrected if I am wrong, but my understanding is that
that information applies now to only old computers; all new Wintel and
WinAMD computers are now UEFI/GPT, rather than FAT/BIOS, and the
primary/logical partitions system, is obsolete for new computers, with
UEFI/GPT systems having up to 128 partitions, with no differentiation
between primary and extended and logical partitions.

Of course, I may be wrong, and, thence, stand to be corrected, if I am wrong.

> I suggest (if you want to keep windows), to shrink the windows partition
> with
> gparted (there is a live dvd available), then install debian on the
> unpartitioned space.
>
> Note: If you want encrypteds filesystems, you might get in trouble, when
> changing the size later with gparted. So I suggest, to make a plan, how much
>
> space you want to give for every partition. Hint: Make the partition, where
>
> /tmp resides a little bigger, so that there is about 10GB free. Some
> applications (like a DVD burner) uses it for temporary files. In this
> special
> case, and you want to burn a blue-ray or a 8,5GB-DVD, then thios will come
> in
> handy.
>>
>> I will install Jessie from a thumb drive and upgrade to testing when
>> Jessie
>> becomes stable.
>
> That's fine.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Hans
>
>

Note - I do not profess to be any sort of a Linux expert - I am no
more that a Linux user with a little experience.


-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992




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Re: Laptop advice

[Rusi Mody]

On Sunday, January 18, 2015 at 10:20:05 PM UTC+5:30, jo...@ageinggracefully.ca 
wrote:
> I have never installed used nor installed linux on a laptop ($500 - $600),

> 3. Dual boot? What problems should I expect?

Modern uefi/gpt machines can give special challenges for which
Ive found this helpful:

http://askubuntu.com/questions/221835/installing-ubuntu-on-a-pre-installed-windows-8-64-bit-system-uefi-supported


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Re: Laptop advice

[Patrick Bartek]

On Sun, 18 Jan 2015, j...@ageinggracefully.ca wrote:

> I have never installed used nor installed linux on a laptop ($500 -
> $600), however I have decided to buy one but before doing so I need
> some advice. These are the questions that come to mind.

Before doing anything, even buying a laptop, read everything you can
on Linux.  Better to know what you're doing before you do it.  15 years
ago, I read and studied and researched Linux 6 months before I
finally chose a distro and installed it.

Avoid too new laptops.  It takes the Linux community time to catch-up
to new hardware.  If it's been on the market for 6 or more months, then
it will probably be fine.  Any problems will have been solved and
available on the 'Net.

Some manufacturers don't play nice with Linux.  I've always had
problems with HP, both desktops and notebooks.  Thinkpads, however,
have never given me any problems.  The more generic the hardware, the
better.  Generally speaking.

There are a couple Linux compatibilty sites out there.  One just
for hardware like wifi chips, graphics, etc.  The address escapes me,
but a search should turn it up.

Also, there's:  www.linuxonlaptops.com

> 1. Graphics radeon or nvidia? I have nvidia on my desktop but have no
> experience with radeon.

Had few problems with either, but I just need basic graphics.  No 3D.
No animation buffering.  Etc. For games, etc.  I usually go with nVidia
just because I've had more experience with it..

> 2. WiFi what to avoid?

I avoid Intel wifi chips.  In fact, I try to avoid ALL Intel stuff
even CPUs.

> 3. Dual boot? What problems should I expect?

Shouldn't be a problem, but RTFM before doing it.  Windows
has gotten very quirky with 7 and 8.  Also, there's that hidden restore
partition that has to be dealt with properly.

If I need Windows, I prefer to run it in a VM and not dual boot.

> I will install Jessie from a thumb drive and upgrade to testing when
> Jessie becomes stable.

Why compound your problems by upgrading to a new testing?  Testing
by its very nature is buggy. Install Jessie, set it up, fix any
problems, use it until you need a new laptop or the new Testing
 becomes the new Stable, THEN upgrade to it.

I NEVER upgrade to a new version until the old one starts having
unfixable problems or fails my current requirements.  That means I
usually run a version 5 to 7 years.

B  


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Re: Menu-text in libreoffice has disappeared

[Rusi Mody]

On Sunday, January 18, 2015 at 10:50:04 PM UTC+5:30, Hans wrote:
> Am Sonntag, 18. Januar 2015, 09:04:32 schrieb Rusi Mody:
> > Testing system - running a load of upgrades.
> > And suddenly I find that libreoffice text in menus has disappeared.
> > First I thought it was the menu-bar (The "File" Edit" ... "Help" had
> > vanished)
> > 
> > Now I see its much more: eg the dialog that says "Save" "Discard"
> > "Cancel" when a modified file is exited without saving -- those 3
> > strings have vanished.
> > 
> > Anyone running testing see something similar?
> > And any suggestions?
> 
> Hi Rusi,
> 
> I am running debian/testing and doing reularly upgrades. However, this error 
> did not appear on any of my systems. Maybe, it is because I am running with 
> German locales.
> 
> I suggest, just to purge libreoffice (and additionally move .libreoffice away 
> from 
> your /home/user/.
> 
> The see, if this behavour appears again.

Thanks Hans

Was upgrading a whole load of packages.
After that it seems to be working again.


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Re: Laptop advice

[john]

On Sun, 18 Jan 2015 18:07:55 +0100
Hans  wrote:

> Am Sonntag, 18. Januar 2015, 10:29:42 schrieb j...@ageinggracefully.ca:
> > I have never installed used nor installed linux on a laptop ($500 - $600),
> > however I have decided to buy one but before doing so I need some advice.
> > These are the questions that come to mind.
> > 
> > 1. Graphics radeon or nvidia? I have nvidia on my desktop but have no
> > experience with radeon.
> In any case: Nvidia. Works like a charm.
> 
> > 2. WiFi what to avoid?
> I would prefer Atheros. Some nice options, other wifi-cards do not possess.
> 
> > 3. Dual boot? What problems should I expect?
> 
> None, if you follow the standard hard-drive rules (only 4 primary partions,
> or 3primary + 1 extended partition parted as you wish). 
> 
> I suggest (if you want to keep windows), to shrink the windows partition with 
> gparted (there is a live dvd available), then install debian on the 
> unpartitioned space.
> 
> Note: If you want encrypteds filesystems, you might get in trouble, when 
> changing the size later with gparted. So I suggest, to make a plan, how much 
> space you want to give for every partition. Hint: Make the partition, where 
> /tmp resides a little bigger, so that there is about 10GB free. Some 
> applications (like a DVD burner) uses it for temporary files. In this special 
> case, and you want to burn a blue-ray or a 8,5GB-DVD, then thios will come in 
> handy.
> > 
> > I will install Jessie from a thumb drive and upgrade to testing when Jessie
> > becomes stable.
> 
> That's fine.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Hans

Thank you and Hans. This is just the sort of advice I needed. 


John
> 
> 
> 
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Re: An experiment in backup

[Tom H]

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 10:28 PM, Kevin O'Gorman  wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:54 AM, Tom H  wrote:


>> Are you using a DM?
>
> A what? Xubuntu uses xfce4 if that answers the question.

DM = display manager

On Ubuntu, lightdm is the default DM.


>> Are you using a WM or a DE?
>
> A what?

WM = window manager

DE = desktop environment; in your case XFCE


>> Have you looked at the logs? Especially Xorg.0.log and xsessions-errors.
>
> Xorg logs seem normal
> I don't see any xsessions-errors file

~/.xsessions-errors


>> Can you launch X after logging in to the console?
>
> I don't know how.

You can check that the basic functionality of X is OK with
xinit /usr/bin/xterm -- /usr/bin/X :0 -nolisten tcp vt01
(assuming that you're on tty1 when launching X)

Otherwise, you can start X with
xinit [...]
startx [...]
service lightdm [re]start


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Re: DEBIAN on PANASONIC CF-19 laptop

[Hans]

> I've done it on the previous model, the CF-18, using netboot. If you
> have a spare machine you can set up a tftp server on, that ought to
> work. Instructions are in the Debian Installation Manual.
> 

Most laptops are also capable to boot from an usb-stick. There are some 
documentations about this. Look also at thematics like "Installing debian on 
EEEPC netbooks".


> Mart

Best regards

Hans


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Re: Laptop advice

[Gary Dale]

On 18/01/15 10:29 AM, j...@ageinggracefully.ca wrote:

I have never installed used nor installed linux on a laptop ($500 - $600),
however I have decided to buy one but before doing so I need some advice. These
are the questions that come to mind.

1. Graphics radeon or nvidia? I have nvidia on my desktop but have no
experience with radeon.
2. WiFi what to avoid?
3. Dual boot? What problems should I expect?

I will install Jessie from a thumb drive and upgrade to testing when Jessie
becomes stable.



I generally prefer Radeon. Their drivers are often a bit better - 
especially the open source ones. NVidea has has some people swearing at 
them instead pf by them.  :)


Most wifi just works. If it doesn't, you can get a really cheap USB wifi 
adapter.


Dual-booting shouldn't create problems by itself. However Windows 
doesn't like having its partitions shrunk. I recommend doing a full 
backup before shrinking the Windows partition then booting into Windows 
immediately afterward.



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Re: Menu-text in libreoffice has disappeared

[Hans]

Am Sonntag, 18. Januar 2015, 09:04:32 schrieb Rusi Mody:
> Testing system - running a load of upgrades.
> And suddenly I find that libreoffice text in menus has disappeared.
> First I thought it was the menu-bar (The "File" Edit" ... "Help" had
> vanished)
> 
> Now I see its much more: eg the dialog that says "Save" "Discard"
> "Cancel" when a modified file is exited without saving -- those 3
> strings have vanished.
> 
> Anyone running testing see something similar?
> And any suggestions?

Hi Rusi,

I am running debian/testing and doing reularly upgrades. However, this error 
did not appear on any of my systems. Maybe, it is because I am running with 
German locales.

I suggest, just to purge libreoffice (and additionally move .libreoffice away 
from 
your /home/user/.

The see, if this behavour appears again.

Good luck!

Hans




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Re: DEBIAN on PANASONIC CF-19 laptop

[Mart van de Wege]

Alex PADOLY  writes:

> Hi!
>
> I don't find information about DEBIAN on PANASONIC CF-19 laptop.
>
> I would like to know if it is possible to install DEBIAN (latest
> version) on PANASONIC CF-19 laptop.
>
> ( this laptop don't have a DVD).
>
> Video about this laptop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZM7Qb7SHtk
>
I've done it on the previous model, the CF-18, using netboot. If you
have a spare machine you can set up a tftp server on, that ought to
work. Instructions are in the Debian Installation Manual.

Mart

-- 
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--- AJS, quoting an uncertain source.


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Menu-text in libreoffice has disappeared

[Rusi Mody]

Testing system - running a load of upgrades.
And suddenly I find that libreoffice text in menus has disappeared.
First I thought it was the menu-bar (The "File" Edit" ... "Help" had 
vanished)

Now I see its much more: eg the dialog that says "Save" "Discard" 
"Cancel" when a modified file is exited without saving -- those 3 
strings have vanished.

Anyone running testing see something similar?
And any suggestions?


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Re: Laptop advice

[Hans]

Am Sonntag, 18. Januar 2015, 10:29:42 schrieb j...@ageinggracefully.ca:
> I have never installed used nor installed linux on a laptop ($500 - $600),
> however I have decided to buy one but before doing so I need some advice.
> These are the questions that come to mind.
> 
> 1. Graphics radeon or nvidia? I have nvidia on my desktop but have no
> experience with radeon.
In any case: Nvidia. Works like a charm.

> 2. WiFi what to avoid?
I would prefer Atheros. Some nice options, other wifi-cards do not possess.

> 3. Dual boot? What problems should I expect?

None, if you follow the standard hard-drive rules (only 4 primary partions, or 
3primary + 1 extended partition parted as you wish). 

I suggest (if you want to keep windows), to shrink the windows partition with 
gparted (there is a live dvd available), then install debian on the 
unpartitioned space.

Note: If you want encrypteds filesystems, you might get in trouble, when 
changing the size later with gparted. So I suggest, to make a plan, how much 
space you want to give for every partition. Hint: Make the partition, where 
/tmp resides a little bigger, so that there is about 10GB free. Some 
applications (like a DVD burner) uses it for temporary files. In this special 
case, and you want to burn a blue-ray or a 8,5GB-DVD, then thios will come in 
handy.
> 
> I will install Jessie from a thumb drive and upgrade to testing when Jessie
> becomes stable.

That's fine.

Good luck!

Hans



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Re: DEBIAN on PANASONIC CF-19 laptop

[Peter Schumann]

Am 18.01.2015 um 06:46 schrieb Alex PADOLY:
> Hi!
> 
> I don't find information about DEBIAN on PANASONIC CF-19 laptop.
> 
> I would like to know if it is possible to install DEBIAN (latest
> version) on PANASONIC CF-19 laptop.
> 
> ( this laptop don't have a DVD).
> 
> Video about this laptop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZM7Qb7SHtk
> 
>  
> 
> Best regards.
> 
> Alex PADOLY
> 
>  

Hi!

There are several versions of the CF-19, MK1 to MK5. Special function
keys are mostly not working. Beside of they are pretty generic x86
Intel machine. So it should just work.

Best regards,
Peter



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Laptop advice

[john]

I have never installed used nor installed linux on a laptop ($500 - $600),
however I have decided to buy one but before doing so I need some advice. These
are the questions that come to mind.

1. Graphics radeon or nvidia? I have nvidia on my desktop but have no
experience with radeon.
2. WiFi what to avoid?
3. Dual boot? What problems should I expect?

I will install Jessie from a thumb drive and upgrade to testing when Jessie
becomes stable.

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Key fingerprint: 0x740F4A705AF2C0B6


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 18 January 2015 05:40:43 Andrew M.A. Cater did opine
And Gene did reply:
> On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 03:38:25PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 17 January 2015 13:04:09 Clive Standbridge did opine
> > 
> > And Gene did reply:
> > > > I assume it has a name, is this 7.8=Jessie?
> > > 
> > > Its name is wheezy. It's an update, not a new release. See:
> > > https://www.debian.org/releases/wheezy/
> > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/2015/msg0.html
> > > 
> > > > Anybody else? FWIW, 7.8, all 3 dvd's in amd64 format, is being
> > > > downloaded now. So I'll give it one more try.
> > > 
> > > It's a bit late now, but you might have had much lighter download
> > > using the network installation CD. Three DVDs is about 13GB; I
> > > doubt that most installations would be that big. With the network
> > > installation you boot from a CD (222MB download) which then
> > > downloads only the packages that will be installed. See
> > > https://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/
> > 
> > Unfortunately, the last 9 debian/ubuntu flavored installs, on 4
> > machines here, have all ran up against Network-Mangler, which
> > promptly tore down
> 
> Hi Gene,
> 
> Burn DVD1. As that boots, tab down to Advanced options, Expert Install
> 
> [If you want other than Gnome, select alternative Desktop environments,
> then go back to select Expert install]
> 
> At the question where it asks you if you want to configure networking
> automatically, say no and put in the values for your network.
> 
> Work on through - at that point, you should have a machine that
> understands your network.

Oh it usually does, until the initial reboot, at which time network 
mangler steps in and destroys your work. That leaves me no choice but to 
emasculate its ability to change anything with a root session of chattr +i 
on the appropriate files.  Frankly I fail to see why, if we are to be 
stuck and even abused with this idiocy on our systems, why it can't first 
issue one ping to a globally available site, and if no response in about a 
second even if its halfway around this rock, then see what it can do about 
it.  A proper response OTOH would indicate that the network exists and is 
working, and it should go commit hari-kari by whatever means is suitable 
until such time as the user invokes it to connect to a strange wifi.

But no, thats too damned simple so it will never be done.

> The key if you've stuff that's non standard is to do an Expert install.

What is "non-standard" about an /etc/hosts file based network?  Nothing. I 
dare say it was invented long before dhcp.  And dns servers.

> The other disks will be useful if you ever have to bootstrap a complete
> machine without access to a network: apt-cdrom add is then used to add
> the disks to your machine so that the package management system
> understands whtihc packages are on which disk.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> All the best,
> 
> AndyC


It would help immensely AndyC, IF that is how it actually worked.
Sadly, it has not. IIRC the last install where it worked was mandrake on 
my now ancient lappy about a dozen years back.  Before network mangler?  
Maybe...

But, in the unlikely event it might, I will try that when I go to do the 
next install, probably some time in the coming week as the weather people 
are telling us to bring in our brass monkeys again.  Hopefully I can get 
some machining done on 2 big slabs of Mahogany before then, but the cnc 
milling machine is located in an un-insulated outbuilding with hopefully 
enough electrical heat to keep it above the dew point.

Yeah, you could call a JOAT.  Master of several but linux isn't that close 
to the top of the list.  But I don't ask for the Senior discount anymore, 
you get a lot more chuckles out of the counter help when you finish up 
your take-out order with "and don't forget the old fart discount".  ;-)

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Gene Heskett]

On Sunday 18 January 2015 06:00:55 Lisi Reisz did opine
And Gene did reply:
> On Saturday 17 January 2015 20:38:25 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Saturday 17 January 2015 13:04:09 Clive Standbridge did opine
> > 
> > > It's a bit late now, but you might have had much lighter download
> > > using the network installation CD. Three DVDs is about 13GB; I
> > > doubt that most installations would be that big. With the network
> > > installation you boot from a CD (222MB download) which then
> > > downloads only the packages that will be installed. See
> > > https://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/
> > 
> > Unfortunately, the last 9 debian/ubuntu flavored installs, on 4
> > machines here, have all ran up against Network-Mangler, which
> > promptly tore down any attempts I successfully made to get it
> > online.
> 
> [snip] 
> 
You got the order right. :)

> Gene -
> 
> I use the network install Debian CD and for years used static IPs.  No
> problem.  When it gets to the point of looking for a network you ask to
> set it up manually and do so.  Home and dry.  No problems.  No Network
> Mangler (If you *will* use Ubuntu what do you expect???).  Network set
> up how you want it.  You just have to stay awake and not blindly click
>  or let the defaults go ahead willly nilly.  ;-)
> 
> Lisi

We will see, sometime when its 5F outside this coming week.
Thanks Lisi.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS


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Re: firefox compaining about missing library

[Marc Auslander]

Gene Heskett  writes:

> On Saturday 17 January 2015 19:32:16 Marc Auslander did opine
> And Gene did reply:
>> Gene Heskett  writes:
>> > Greetings;
>> > 
>> > Does anyone know where to find, for Wheezy, this library?
>> > VDPAU backend libvdpau_nouveau.so?
>> 
>> ...
>> I am running firefox 35 under wheezy with no problem. And I do not
>> have the names library.  I just untar that tarball into /usr/lib and
>> go.
>
> And your video card and driver are?
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

None - I'm running headless with a remote X-server on a windows
desktop.  Sorry for the un-helpful post.

try two - you could try putting
user_pref("layers.acceleration.disabled", true);
into prefs.js

this corresponds to unchecking use hardware acceleration in prefs.

although I'm not sure how this would work unless firefox is
dynamically loading the library.


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dpkg error installing ncurses deb made with checkinstall

[Linux4Bene]

Hi,

I have previously compiled ncurses 5.9 without a problem.
The config command:
./configure --with-shared --enable-termcap --prefix=/usr/local

make install also works on my Debian Wheezy.
I want to use this same package on my server, so I decided to build a deb
using checkinstall. Building is done with this command:

sudo checkinstall -D --pkgname=ictforce-ncurses-5.9 make install

However, when I try to install the package I get an error on a man page:

Uitpakken van myncurses-5.9 (uit .../myncurses-5.9_5.9-1_amd64.deb) ...
dpkg: error processing /home/user/src/ncurses-5.9/
myncurses-5.9_5.9-1_amd64.deb (--install):
 unable to open '/usr/local/share/man/man3/menu_new.3menu.gz.dpkg-new': 
Bestand of map bestaat niet
 Processing triggers for man-db ...
 Fouten gevonden tijdens behandelen van:
  /home/user/src/ncurses-5.9/myncurses-5.9_5.9-1_amd64.deb

I have tried copying another man page to the location dpkg complains 
about, but that doesn't work. Neither does creating an file in the ncurses 
man directory prior to running the checkinstall command.
To me, I couldn't care less about the referenced man page, I don't need 
it. I can see 2 solutions that could work for me:

1. force install the package as I don't care about the man page and the 
man page is not going to hinder the way ncurses runs.

2. get the missing man page in the package so dpkg doesn't complain when 
installing.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Bene 


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Re: DEBIAN on PANASONIC CF-19 laptop

[Gary Dale]

On 18/01/15 12:46 AM, Alex PADOLY wrote:


Hi!

I don't find information about DEBIAN on PANASONIC CF-19 laptop.

I would like to know if it is possible to install DEBIAN (latest 
version) on PANASONIC CF-19 laptop.


( this laptop don't have a DVD).

Video about this laptop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZM7Qb7SHtk

Best regards.

Alex PADOLY

It should be possible if it has USB ports and can boot from them. Just 
create a bootable USB installer or plug in an external CD reader.


Another way is to remove the hard drive, connect it to a different 
computer and install onto it. Then put it back in the laptop.



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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Lisi Reisz]

On Saturday 17 January 2015 20:38:25 Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 17 January 2015 13:04:09 Clive Standbridge did opine
> > It's a bit late now, but you might have had much lighter download
> > using the network installation CD. Three DVDs is about 13GB; I doubt
> > that most installations would be that big. With the network
> > installation you boot from a CD (222MB download) which then downloads
> > only the packages that will be installed. See
> > https://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/
>
> Unfortunately, the last 9 debian/ubuntu flavored installs, on 4 machines
> here, have all ran up against Network-Mangler, which promptly tore down
> any attempts I successfully made to get it online.
[snip] 

Gene -

I use the network install Debian CD and for years used static IPs.  No 
problem.  When it gets to the point of looking for a network you ask to set 
it up manually and do so.  Home and dry.  No problems.  No Network Mangler 
(If you *will* use Ubuntu what do you expect???).  Network set up how you 
want it.  You just have to stay awake and not blindly click  or let 
the defaults go ahead willly nilly.  ;-)

Lisi


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Re: Was: Ric Moore

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 03:38:25PM -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 17 January 2015 13:04:09 Clive Standbridge did opine
> And Gene did reply:
> > > I assume it has a name, is this 7.8=Jessie?
> > 
> > Its name is wheezy. It's an update, not a new release. See:
> > https://www.debian.org/releases/wheezy/
> > https://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/2015/msg0.html
> > 
> > > Anybody else? FWIW, 7.8, all 3 dvd's in amd64 format, is being
> > > downloaded now. So I'll give it one more try.
> > 
> > It's a bit late now, but you might have had much lighter download
> > using the network installation CD. Three DVDs is about 13GB; I doubt
> > that most installations would be that big. With the network
> > installation you boot from a CD (222MB download) which then downloads
> > only the packages that will be installed. See
> > https://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/
> 
> Unfortunately, the last 9 debian/ubuntu flavored installs, on 4 machines 
> here, have all ran up against Network-Mangler, which promptly tore down 

Hi Gene,

Burn DVD1. As that boots, tab down to Advanced options, Expert Install

[If you want other than Gnome, select alternative Desktop environments, then go 
back to select Expert install]

At the question where it asks you if you want to configure networking 
automatically,
say no and put in the values for your network.

Work on through - at that point, you should have a machine that understands 
your network.

The key if you've stuff that's non standard is to do an Expert install.

The other disks will be useful if you ever have to bootstrap a complete machine 
without access to a network: apt-cdrom add 
is then used to add the disks to your machine so that the package management 
system understands whtihc packages are on 
which disk.

Hope this helps,

All the best,

AndyC


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