Re: Pitfalls of german-english dictionaries. Was: What pulls in the tray of my /dev/sr1 ?

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Lisi Resiz wrote:
> > If you do use foreign words, you need to be willing to explain them when
> > asked, as you were by Chris.

But i did not understand that it was about english language
and not about computing. I was not aware that "resp." is wrong
in that context.


> > I'm still not clear on the meaning of bzw,

It is quite wide.
As said, it expresses alternative views on the topics of
the sentence.

The nearest structural similarity to "respectively" is like
this:
german way:   A bzw. B bzw. C related to 1 bzw. 2 bzw. 3
english way:  A, B, C related to 1, 2, 3 respectively

But normally "bzw." needs no second tuple to which it has to
create a 1:1 relation:
german:   A bzw. B bzw. C

There is some similarity between both words but this does
not justify to make them a pair in the vocabulary book.


Joel Rees wrote:
> With a little help from google translate, "or rather".

Yes. Something like that. "or" alone is too general,
because it does not emphasize the need for changing the
viewpoint before the alternative becomes valid.


> And, in this case, "namely" doesn't work other.

"namely" has few chances to match a german "bzw.".


Here is a nice spectrum of "beziehungsweise" and its english
counterparts.
  http://www.linguee.com/german-english/translation/beziehungsweise.html
Some "respectively" are among them. Some are quite near to
my (mislead) use of it.


> This may be one time that Google translate was useful.

It helps from time to time. (But how trustworthy is it,
given the miserable state of german-english online
dictionaries ?)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/28122554830122466...@scdbackup.webframe.org

Re: Pitfalls of german-english dictionaries. Was: What pulls in the tray of my /dev/sr1 ?

[Chris Bannister]

On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 01:23:48PM +0900, Joel Rees wrote:
> I'd go with the idea suggested on the stackexchange post he referenced,
> that, in other contexts, the English grammar puts the "beziehungswiese"
> after two lists which are being associated:
> 
> ... translating breakfast, lunch, and dinner
> as "asa-gohan", "o-hiru", and "yuu-han", _respectively_.

Yes, in this instance it makes sense, but is a digression.
I think for the original issue, it could be read as 'actually'?

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150728052430.GA26535@tal

Re: Pitfalls of german-english dictionaries. Was: What pulls in the tray of my /dev/sr1 ?

[Joel Rees]

Hi, Lisi,

If I'm still in your blacklists, it won't help for me to comment, but ...

2015/07/28 6:46 "Lisi Reisz" :
>
> On Monday 27 July 2015 16:53:14 Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> > "The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that
> >  English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow
words;
> > on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
> > them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."  -- James
D.
> > Nicoll
> >
> > So:
> > "bzw." is a really useful word. Get it and use it whenever
> > you want to point to a fork in your thoughts.
>
> I'm not defending the purity of anything.  The English language is a right
> mish-mash of Latin, French, German, Norse, Hindi etc..  But
none-the-less, it
> improves comprehensibility if one sticks roughly to the language in which
one
> is speaking/writing.
>
> If you do use foreign words, you need to be willing to explain them when
> asked, as you were by Chris.
>
> I'm still not clear on the meaning of bzw,

I'm guessing it was in the part you cut out, the "beziehungsweise" that he
was translating as "respectively", abbrevitated to "resp."

> nor in what way its meaning differs
> from "or".  So I shall continue to use "or". ;-)
>
> Lisi
>

With a little help from google translate, "or rather".

I'd go with the idea suggested on the stackexchange post he referenced,
that, in other contexts, the English grammar puts the "beziehungswiese"
after two lists which are being associated:

... translating breakfast, lunch, and dinner
as "asa-gohan", "o-hiru", and "yuu-han", _respectively_.

(with apologies for potentally muddying the waters further by using
Japanese in my example).

And, in this case, "namely" doesn't work other.

This may be one time that Google translate was useful.

Re: external (USB) disk errors causing hangs and 100% cpu core usage

[Gary Dale]

On 27/07/15 10:08 PM, Celejar wrote:

Hi,

I have a fairly new external USB disk that frequently throws errors.
When these occur, the disk becomes partially or totally inaccessible.
Even worse, when I try to umount it, the umount hangs indefinitely,
using 100% of one of my cpu cores. I haven't yet found any way to
recover short of hard booting (long press of the power button) the
system (soft booting - halt, reboot, poweroff - hang). smart seems to
show no errors, and I have yet to discover any actual data corruption -
I typically run fsck upon reboot, and it sometimes reports no problems,
and sometimes a couple of simple ones that it can fix. The whole disk
is a physical volume for a dm-crypt / cryptsetup [LUKS] encrypted
volume. The system is currently Jessie with systemd, but I believe I
began having more or less the same problems with my previous Wheezy
install. The machine is a ThinkPad T61. Any ideas?

$ lsusb
Bus 007 Device 002: ID 1058:0830 Western Digital Technologies, Inc.

# smartctl -a /dev/sdb -d sat
smartctl 6.4 2014-10-07 r4002 [x86_64-linux-3.18.19-lizzie] (local
build) Copyright (C) 2002-14, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke,
www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Western Digital Elements / My Passport (USB, AF)
Device Model: WDC WD10JMVW-11AJGS3
Serial Number:WD-WXR1E848NUEZ
LU WWN Device Id: 5 0014ee 60534064a
Firmware Version: 01.01A01
User Capacity:1,000,171,332,096 bytes [1.00 TB]
Sector Sizes: 512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical
Rotation Rate:5400 rpm
Device is:In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   ACS-2 (minor revision not indicated)
SATA Version is:  SATA 3.0, 3.0 Gb/s (current: 3.0 Gb/s)

...

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME  FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE  UPDATED  
WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
   1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x002f   200   200   051Pre-fail  Always   
-   0
   3 Spin_Up_Time0x0027   154   109   021Pre-fail  Always   
-   3266
   4 Start_Stop_Count0x0032   100   100   000Old_age   Always   
-   213
   5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   200   200   140Pre-fail  Always   
-   0
   7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x002e   200   200   000Old_age   Always   
-   0
   9 Power_On_Hours  0x0032   100   100   000Old_age   Always   
-   632
  10 Spin_Retry_Count0x0032   100   100   000Old_age   Always   
-   0
  11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0032   100   100   000Old_age   Always   
-   0
  12 Power_Cycle_Count   0x0032   100   100   000Old_age   Always   
-   134
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   200   200   000Old_age   Always   
-   42
193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0032   200   200   000Old_age   Always   
-   2008
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022   113   093   000Old_age   Always   
-   34
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   200   200   000Old_age   Always   
-   0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0032   200   200   000Old_age   Always   
-   0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0030   100   253   000Old_age   Offline  
-   0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count0x0032   200   200   000Old_age   Always   
-   0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x0008   100   253   000Old_age   Offline  
-   0

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged

[A typical batch of errors found in syslog when the disk goes offline:]

Jul 27 13:46:21 lizzie kernel: [81183.018191] EXT4-fs warning (device dm-6): 
__ext4_read_dirblock:884: error -5 reading directory block (ino 25690113, block 
0)
Jul 27 13:46:21 lizzie kernel: [81183.019891] EXT4-fs warning (device dm-6): 
__ext4_read_dirblock:884: error -5 reading directory block (ino 46925124, block 
0)
Jul 27 13:46:22 lizzie kernel: [81184.154747] EXT4-fs warning (device dm-6): 
__ext4_read_dirblock:884: error -5 reading directory block (ino 25690113, block 
0)
Jul 27 13:46:23 lizzie kernel: [81184.943103] EXT4-fs warning (device dm-6): 
__ext4_read_dirblock:884: error -5 reading directory block (ino 2, block 0)
Jul 27 13:46:23 lizzie kernel: [81184.943147] EXT4-fs error (device dm-6): 
__ext4_get_inode_loc:3809: inode #2: block 1057: comm mc: unable to read itable 
block
Jul 27 13:46:23 lizzie kernel: [81184.943269] Buffer I/O error on dev dm-6, 
logical block 0, lost sync page write
Jul 27 13:46:23 lizzie kernel: [81184.943282] EXT4-fs error (device dm-6) in 
ext4_reserve_inode_write:4775: IO failure
Jul 27 13:46:23 lizzie kernel: [81184.943285] EXT4-fs (dm-6): previous I/O 
error to superblock detected
Jul 27 13:46:23 lizzie kernel: [81184.943383] Buffer I/O error on dev dm-6, 
logical block 0, lost sync page write
Jul 27 13:46:24 lizzie kernel: [81186.059725] EXT4-fs warning (device dm-6): 
__ext4_read_dirblock:884: error -5 reading direct

external (USB) disk errors causing hangs and 100% cpu core usage

[Celejar]

Hi,

I have a fairly new external USB disk that frequently throws errors.
When these occur, the disk becomes partially or totally inaccessible.
Even worse, when I try to umount it, the umount hangs indefinitely,
using 100% of one of my cpu cores. I haven't yet found any way to
recover short of hard booting (long press of the power button) the
system (soft booting - halt, reboot, poweroff - hang). smart seems to
show no errors, and I have yet to discover any actual data corruption -
I typically run fsck upon reboot, and it sometimes reports no problems,
and sometimes a couple of simple ones that it can fix. The whole disk
is a physical volume for a dm-crypt / cryptsetup [LUKS] encrypted
volume. The system is currently Jessie with systemd, but I believe I
began having more or less the same problems with my previous Wheezy
install. The machine is a ThinkPad T61. Any ideas?

$ lsusb
Bus 007 Device 002: ID 1058:0830 Western Digital Technologies, Inc. 

# smartctl -a /dev/sdb -d sat
smartctl 6.4 2014-10-07 r4002 [x86_64-linux-3.18.19-lizzie] (local
build) Copyright (C) 2002-14, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke,
www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family: Western Digital Elements / My Passport (USB, AF)
Device Model: WDC WD10JMVW-11AJGS3
Serial Number:WD-WXR1E848NUEZ
LU WWN Device Id: 5 0014ee 60534064a
Firmware Version: 01.01A01
User Capacity:1,000,171,332,096 bytes [1.00 TB]
Sector Sizes: 512 bytes logical, 4096 bytes physical
Rotation Rate:5400 rpm
Device is:In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   ACS-2 (minor revision not indicated)
SATA Version is:  SATA 3.0, 3.0 Gb/s (current: 3.0 Gb/s)

...

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME  FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE  UPDATED  
WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x002f   200   200   051Pre-fail  Always   
-   0
  3 Spin_Up_Time0x0027   154   109   021Pre-fail  Always   
-   3266
  4 Start_Stop_Count0x0032   100   100   000Old_age   Always   
-   213
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   200   200   140Pre-fail  Always   
-   0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x002e   200   200   000Old_age   Always   
-   0
  9 Power_On_Hours  0x0032   100   100   000Old_age   Always   
-   632
 10 Spin_Retry_Count0x0032   100   100   000Old_age   Always   
-   0
 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0032   100   100   000Old_age   Always   
-   0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count   0x0032   100   100   000Old_age   Always   
-   134
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   200   200   000Old_age   Always   
-   42
193 Load_Cycle_Count0x0032   200   200   000Old_age   Always   
-   2008
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022   113   093   000Old_age   Always   
-   34
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   200   200   000Old_age   Always   
-   0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0032   200   200   000Old_age   Always   
-   0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0030   100   253   000Old_age   Offline  
-   0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count0x0032   200   200   000Old_age   Always   
-   0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x0008   100   253   000Old_age   Offline  
-   0

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged

[A typical batch of errors found in syslog when the disk goes offline:]

Jul 27 13:46:21 lizzie kernel: [81183.018191] EXT4-fs warning (device dm-6): 
__ext4_read_dirblock:884: error -5 reading directory block (ino 25690113, block 
0)
Jul 27 13:46:21 lizzie kernel: [81183.019891] EXT4-fs warning (device dm-6): 
__ext4_read_dirblock:884: error -5 reading directory block (ino 46925124, block 
0)
Jul 27 13:46:22 lizzie kernel: [81184.154747] EXT4-fs warning (device dm-6): 
__ext4_read_dirblock:884: error -5 reading directory block (ino 25690113, block 
0)
Jul 27 13:46:23 lizzie kernel: [81184.943103] EXT4-fs warning (device dm-6): 
__ext4_read_dirblock:884: error -5 reading directory block (ino 2, block 0)
Jul 27 13:46:23 lizzie kernel: [81184.943147] EXT4-fs error (device dm-6): 
__ext4_get_inode_loc:3809: inode #2: block 1057: comm mc: unable to read itable 
block
Jul 27 13:46:23 lizzie kernel: [81184.943269] Buffer I/O error on dev dm-6, 
logical block 0, lost sync page write
Jul 27 13:46:23 lizzie kernel: [81184.943282] EXT4-fs error (device dm-6) in 
ext4_reserve_inode_write:4775: IO failure
Jul 27 13:46:23 lizzie kernel: [81184.943285] EXT4-fs (dm-6): previous I/O 
error to superblock detected
Jul 27 13:46:23 lizzie kernel: [81184.943383] Buffer I/O error on dev dm-6, 
logical block 0, lost sync page write
Jul 27 13:46:24 lizzie kernel: [81186.059725] EXT4-fs warning (device dm-6): 
__ext4_read_dirblock:884: error -5 reading directory block (ino 2, block 0)
Jul 27 13:46:28 lizz

Re: Help - 13-year Debian veteran can't install Jessie

[Joel Rees]

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 11:46 AM, David Bruce
 wrote:
> I've installed Debian dozens of times since 2002 and I have never run
> into anything approaching the headaches I am experiencing trying to
> get the current stable Debian onto a newly rebuilt machine. The box is
> a straightforward amd64

Which amd64?

> setup built from a bundle from Newegg. It has
> onboard Realtek eth0,

Which realtek eth0?

> plus I have an Atheros PCI wireless card

Which Atheros PCI wireless card?

> that I
> purchased a couple years ago specifically based on Linux
> compatibility.
>
> Issues:
> 1. the official amd64 netinst CD image fails to let me connect to my
> router via either interface, even when I provide a USB drive with the
> debs for all firmwares.

Can you get a dmesg (or is it called something else in systemd world?)
saved, say, to a USB, and post it?

> 2. the unofficial amd64 netinst CD image with firmware included fails
> identically. DHCP autoconfiguration fails, and even if I supply a
> manual ip address the installer can't find ftp.debian.org
> 3. an old Squeeze installer CD (6.03 amd netinst) connects perfectly
> on the same hardware and installs a partially usable system. I say
> "partially" because KDE only sees one of my two monitors, it won't let
> me use the correct resolution, and the system has no functioning
> sound. But it sure is disturbing that the 8.1 installer fails on the
> exact equipment where 6.03 works.

A dmesg from this install would also be informative.

Drivers change. The wired network adapter may be not yet supported in
the current driver, but may be functional by some default assumptions
in an older driver that sees it as something it sort-of-recognizes.

> 4. Thinking dist-upgrade would work as it always has in the past, I
> figured I could just adjust my sources.list and upgrade first to
> Wheezy, then to Jessie, and then get the issues worked out with the
> current stable system. Wrong! I was able to dist-upgrade to Wheezy
> with no evident errors, but upon rebooting I could no longer connect
> to the network. Or if I try the Wheezy->Jessie dist-upgrade without
> rebooting, it fails with dependency errors ("E: package 'foo' requires
> 'bar-xxx', but 'bar-yyy' is going to be installed...").

Chaining versions in new installs should never be expected to be a
smooth ride. What you're hitting there is probably another problem
entirely.

> 5. (most troubling) - I posted a couple of days ago that I had trouble
> with DHCP not working during install, and have had exactly zero
> follow-ups (although I did receive one very nice off-list email
> suggestion, which unfortunately did not help).
>
> I have always been an ardent advocate and defender of free software
> and desktop "Linux" (sloppily defined for present discussion), but I
> have to say that this is an enormously frustrating situation.

I think the current situation is very frustrating, too. Especially
since my day job hardly lets me even look at the list any more.

> It has
> been a while since I installed Debian on the predecessor to my current
> machine. I distinctly recall feeling that desktop Debian had become
> mature, solid, and eminently usable, and that the "Debian is outdated
> and difficult" reputation had become a thing of the past. Definitely
> not so sure anymore.

Well, we are not in the golden age of free software anymore. The flood
of Android devices has apparently convinced a lot of people that
freedom no longer matters. Or something. But that's a separate issue,
and there's not much

However, I don't see a dmesg in your original posts. It's hard to
comment on driver availability when we don't see a dmesg, and it was
easy to assume, since you seemed to think you knew which bugs were
relevant, that you could find out what driver you need and check its
availability yourself.

> Well enough of the rant but hopefully some of this can be taken
> constructively. I will probably get a CD set and see if I can install
> a complete system offline and then get the networking up. Debian is
> definitely the system I want, but that doesn't matter much if I can't
> get the darn thing working.
>
> I would still welcome any suggestions or insights as to why the 6.03
> installer works with my home router, but 8.1 does not.
>
> Thanks for any help, or for at least listening to these issues.
>
> --
> David Bruce
>
> For all your software needs, visit The Apt Store:
> deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stable main

-- 
Joel Rees

Be careful when you look at conspiracy.
Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself, as well:
http://reiisi.blogspot.jp/2011/10/conspiracy-theories.html


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/CAAr43iP9QJYAyLePhLvUbBA_LuKsbEj25WwcHYMEFokD=qa...@mail.gmail.com

Re: What pulls in the tray of my /dev/sr1 ?

[Mike Castle]

On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 4:44 AM, Thomas Schmitt  wrote:
>
> LG Germany answered quickly and stated that the drive is
> not known to show this behavior under MS-Windows.
> (Linux is not on their compatibility list, they say.)


Has the drive displayed this behavior since you turned on the machine,
or just you just start to notice it after a while?

Maybe it only starts to happen after it's been on for a while, and
Window machines don't stay booted long enough.

Ok, really maybe it only starts to happen after some specific event,
which could be any thing you'd done while working on libburn, or some
internal timer kicked off, or something like that.

It wasn't clear if your stability testing revolved around libburn or
not.  If it is, then maybe something tweaked it that wouldn't have
happened just a user box (vs a developer who might be more likely to
do something unusual).

mrc


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/ca+t9imxkw0_ue_4zrd-ybdyrbsvvoul3utl-tcz2mpunmp9...@mail.gmail.com

Next Q, re amd64-microcode

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

Is there an autoloading routine I know not about that chooses to see if 
either the intel-microdoe is loaded and applied, or the amd64-microcode 
is applied?

I cannot find a reference to the attempt to load it in the dmesg report 
on this machine I am building.. Apt-get install says it is already the 
latest version.  Seems to me there ought to be some treacks in the boot 
log.

Thanks folks.
  
Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201507271939.32047.ghesk...@wdtv.com

Re: [SOLVED -- sort of] Unwanted application autostarting at login with XFCE

[Joel Rees]

On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 7:46 AM, Stephen Powell  wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 06:48:48 -0400 (EDT), Joel Rees wrote:
>>
>> I also sometimes get applications I had closed coming back when I log back 
>> in.
>>
>> XFCE sometimes gets its states wedged.
>>
>> There is a command I sometimes used to use to reset the wedged state
>> when the title/menubar disappeared. I'm not remembering it right now.
>> I'm wondering whether it might have worked for this case, as well. I
>> think it was
>>
>> xfwm4 --replace
>>
>> (This is not really the purpose of the command, as I understand it,
>> but it seems to clear out some of the wedged stuff. See xfwm4 --help
>> for more information.)
>
> I tried it.  It locked up my whole X session!  I had to switch to a text
> console and restart lightdm with
>
>/etc/init.d/lightdm restart
>
> to recover.  And it didn't solve the problem.  As soon as I reinstalled
> abiword, it started autostarting again at each login.  Thanks for trying.
>

Okay, so that one doesn't work here. Or maybe it can't be used that
way any more. Sorry to put you to the trouble.

You might also try directly (with rm or vi) clearing the session
caches, if you can figure out where they are.

Hmm. You might look at ~/.cache/sessions/xf* . Just be sure you log
out of your X11 session before you modify those. (virtual console, or
logged in as a different user that can sudo -u, etc.)

The problem is, I am sure, in the interplay of the "keep your session"
option on the logout dialog with applications that don't know how to
save their sessions, or use an older API to do it. It's probably worth
a bug report to the Abiword (was it?) project, if you have the time.
Or at least a question to their user list. And/or the XFCE list,
although I think I'd start at he Abiword lists.

-- 
Joel Rees

Be careful when you look at conspiracy.
Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself, as well:
http://reiisi.blogspot.jp/2011/10/conspiracy-theories.html


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/CAAr43iMa=GmMi+5-q+Ke0TBkHLQ_p2hwTBCgB=rnuqhwrqk...@mail.gmail.com

Re: Help - 13-year Debian veteran can't install Jessie

[Joel Rees]

On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 3:27 AM, John L. Ries  wrote:
> I understand the desire to put "free software first" and segregate out
> packages that don't meet the standard, but if a free driver is not available
> for one's hardware, then I figure the least Debian could do is to offer to
> install a "non-free" one (purists should be free to change the config to
> block them categorically, so they get what they want).
>
> Ideals are good, but one still has to deal with reality.

You know, a year ago, I'd have said something like

http://www.fedoraproject.org
http://www.linuxmint.com

Or, hey, get an Android device.

Or, gettamac still stands as a reasonable option.

But I guess, in the new Debian community, the social contract no longer matters.

> --|
> John L. Ries  |
> Salford Systems   |
> Phone: (619)543-8880 x107 |
> or (435)867-8885  |
> --|
>
>
> On Mon, 27 Jul 2015, Michael Fothergill wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>> On 27 July 2015 at 18:27, Mark Allums  wrote:
>>   On 07/27/2015 08:46 AM, Hans wrote:
>> Am Montag, 27. Juli 2015, 08:13:29 schrieb john
>> vera:
>>
>> In one word, drivers.
>>
>>
>>
>>   Don't we mean: firmware.  Nonfree firmware was removed from
>>   Debian main for some silly reason.  A lot of hardware needs it
>>   to function.
>>
>>
>> I agree.  Having to install the firmware manually to get X11 working is a
>> bit Arthur Tuttlesque.
>>
>> Why not go the whole hog and install Gentoo instead?
>>
>> MF
>>

Well, you get what you pay for. If you want the free beer, you have to
stand in line, and you have to put up with the advertising, and  with
all that comes with the free beer.

-- 
Joel Rees

Be careful when you look at conspiracy.
Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself, as well:
http://reiisi.blogspot.jp/2011/10/conspiracy-theories.html


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/caar43ioheemhs8p-1b64mrpfufcg1jmhu7pepdjguq-bd+i...@mail.gmail.com

Re: [SOLVED -- sort of] Unwanted application autostarting at login with XFCE

[Stephen Powell]

On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 06:48:48 -0400 (EDT), Joel Rees wrote:
> 
> I also sometimes get applications I had closed coming back when I log back in.
> 
> XFCE sometimes gets its states wedged.
> 
> There is a command I sometimes used to use to reset the wedged state
> when the title/menubar disappeared. I'm not remembering it right now.
> I'm wondering whether it might have worked for this case, as well. I
> think it was
> 
> xfwm4 --replace
> 
> (This is not really the purpose of the command, as I understand it,
> but it seems to clear out some of the wedged stuff. See xfwm4 --help
> for more information.)

I tried it.  It locked up my whole X session!  I had to switch to a text
console and restart lightdm with

   /etc/init.d/lightdm restart

to recover.  And it didn't solve the problem.  As soon as I reinstalled
abiword, it started autostarting again at each login.  Thanks for trying.

-- 
  .''`. Stephen Powell
 : :'  :
 `. `'`
   `-


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/1554403173.3095827.1438037206827.javamail.zim...@wowway.com

Re: Help - 13-year Debian veteran can't install Jessie

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 27 July 2015 19:30:20 Glenn English wrote:
> On Jul 27, 2015, at 11:49 AM, Michael Fothergill 
 wrote:
> > On 27 July 2015 at 18:27, Mark Allums  wrote:
> > On 07/27/2015 08:46 AM, Hans wrote:
> > Am Montag, 27. Juli 2015, 08:13:29 schrieb john vera:
> >
> > In one word, drivers.
> >
> >
> >
> > Don't we mean: firmware.  Nonfree firmware was removed from Debian main
> > for some silly reason.  A lot of hardware needs it to function.
> >
> >
> > ​I agree.  Having to install the firmware manually to get X11 working is
> > a bit Arthur Tuttlesque.
> >
> > Why not go the whole hog and install Gentoo instead?
>
> Guys, this is not tough. Just put "non-free" in your apt sources file
> line(s), and you'll never see the difference. The firmware in not
> unencumbered; it's $free, but not beer free. You can get it any time you
> ask for it.

That is indeed no big deal.  But this thread is about the absence of the 
firmware in the installer, which can be a right royal PITA, and is certainly 
inconvenient.

Lisi


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201507272307.20453.lisi.re...@gmail.com

Re: Pitfalls of german-english dictionaries. Was: What pulls in the tray of my /dev/sr1 ?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 27 July 2015 16:53:14 Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> "The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that
>  English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words;
> on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat
> them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."  -- James D.
> Nicoll
>
> So:
> "bzw." is a really useful word. Get it and use it whenever
> you want to point to a fork in your thoughts.

I'm not defending the purity of anything.  The English language is a right 
mish-mash of Latin, French, German, Norse, Hindi etc..  But none-the-less, it 
improves comprehensibility if one sticks roughly to the language in which one 
is speaking/writing.

If you do use foreign words, you need to be willing to explain them when 
asked, as you were by Chris.

I'm still not clear on the meaning of bzw, nor in what way its meaning differs 
from "or".  So I shall continue to use "or". ;-)

Lisi


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201507272246.22658.lisi.re...@gmail.com

Re: alpine mail client with gmx.net as mail provider

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Nicolas George wrote:
> Do try strace, and if
> you know a bit of SMTP, which seems the case, you should be able to spot the
> problem in a few minutes.

It's nearly too late in the evening. But (with alpine 2.20 from
source):

  read(9, "220 gmx.com (mrgmx102) Nemesis E"..., 8192) = 52

  write(9, "EHLO localhost\r\n", 16)  = 16

  read(9, "250-gmx.com Hello localhost [79."..., 8192) = 86

  write(9, "AUTH PLAIN\r\n", 12)  = 12

  read(9, "334 \r\n", 8192)   = 6

  write(9, "...for.my.eyes.only...", ...) = ...

  read(9, "235 Authentication succeeded\r\n", 8192) = 30

  write(9, "MAIL FROM:<...my_id...@...my.local.hostname...>"..., ...) = ...

Oh yes. That's wrong. It must be  ...my_id...@gmx.net.
Consequential Nemesis rejects:

  read(9, "550-Requested action not taken: "..., 8192) = 89

But alpine happily goes on with

  write(9, "RCPT TO:<...some_id...@gmx.net>\r\n", ...) = ...

which earns it

  read(9, "503 Bad sequence of commands\r\n", 8192) = 30


Ok. About 20 minutes including reading man strace.
Catch of the day. Congrats to Nicolas George !


It's really too late now. But i change alpine configuration
from:
  User Domain   = 
to:
  User Domain   = gmx.net   
  
... naw. Does not help. At least not now.

I have something to dig for in the source. Tomorrow.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/24870554939492307...@scdbackup.webframe.org

Re: alpine mail client with gmx.net as mail provider

[Nicolas George]

Le nonidi 9 thermidor, an CCXXIII, Thomas Schmitt a écrit :
> > strace can tell you that and much more, especially if the encryption is done
> > by a separate program.
> Whatever, the ports and encryption are ok. It's alpine's
> way of speaking ESMTP and/or Nemesis' unfilfilled ESMTP
> expectations which cause an error 503.

That is exactly the reason I wrote "and much more". Do try strace, and if
you know a bit of SMTP, which seems the case, you should be able to spot the
problem in a few minutes.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: What package contains the time daemon?

[Dennis Wicks]

Mart van de Wege wrote on 07/27/2015 12:49 AM:

Gary Dale  writes:


On 26/07/15 02:44 PM, Mart van de Wege wrote:

Gary Dale  writes:


Upgrading to sid is asking for trouble. Sid isn't called unstable for
nothing.


I know. I really do. I only have been running Debian since potato. On
the other hand, someone's gotta run Sid, or it'll never get debugged.


Yeah, well that ain't me. I have enough trouble with 
releases labeled "stable"!




Mart




--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/55b69486.50...@mgssub.com

Re: alpine mail client with gmx.net as mail provider

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

David Wright a écrit :
> > It would be nice to know which port numbers alpine is trying to
> > use.

Nicolas George:
> strace can tell you that and much more, especially if the encryption is done
> by a separate program.

I do know the port number if stunnel is involved.

Whatever, the ports and encryption are ok. It's alpine's
way of speaking ESMTP and/or Nemesis' unfilfilled ESMTP
expectations which cause an error 503. I'm quite sure.
(David Wright seems convinced too, after we sorted out
 the line delimiter problem with openssl s_client.)

After installing libssl-dev and libpam-dev i now get
through ./configure && make of alpine 2.20.
Must go on READMEing what's next.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/24826554940608306...@scdbackup.webframe.org

Re: What package contains the time daemon?

[Dennis Wicks]

Renaud (Ron) OLGIATI wrote on 07/26/2015 03:40 PM:

On Sun, 26 Jul 2015 15:27:50 -0500
John Hasler  wrote:


I want to be able to set the time if for some reason the clock is
completely incorrect (this occurred from time to time in the past).


Use your wristwatch.

 Or better, your cellphone or GPS receiver.


   Or: http://nist.time.gov
   Or: (303) 499-7111



Cheers,

Ron.




--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/55b692e3.8080...@mgssub.com

Re: Help - 13-year Debian veteran can't install Jessie

[Sven Arvidsson]

On Mon, 2015-07-27 at 14:55 -0400, Renaud OLGIATI wrote:
> > Guys, this is not tough. Just put "non-free" in your apt sources 
> > file line(s), and you'll never see the difference. The firmware in 
> > not unencumbered; it's $free, but not beer free. You can get it any 
> > time you ask for it.
> 
> We are talking ere of making it available at install time...

You can enable non-free in the installer. (At least you used to be able
too).

It would still need to actually download those packages first, but
that's not different from many other OS installers.


-- 
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 6FAB5CD5




signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: alpine mail client with gmx.net as mail provider

[David Wright]

Quoting Thomas Schmitt (scdbac...@gmx.net):

> > Were I a user of mail.gmx.net, I would ask them.
> 
> Futile. They'd want me to use the web interface with lots
> of advertising.

Oh dear. Well, could you attack the problem the other way round and
connect alpine to exim, say, on your own machine. Unfortunately you'll
have to do some configuring first, to open up ports on localhost.

Alternatively, it might be easier to build alpine from source with the
debug flag. I'm guessing that's why you downloaded alpine-2.20.tar.xz.

> Nemesis obviously does not properly get to see your texts.
> man 1 s_client says "any key presses will be sent to the server".
> This might not be what a SMTP server expects. RFC 821 prescibes
> "" as line end mark.

Mea culpa. mail.gmx.net is very persnickety!

> Try again with option -crlf
> 
>   openssl s_client -crlf -connect mail.gmx.net:465
> 
> It brings me to
> 
>   220 gmx.com (mrgmx102) Nemesis ESMTP Service ready
>   EHLO junk
>   250-gmx.com Hello junk [79.192.75.113]
>   250-SIZE 69920427
>   250 AUTH LOGIN PLAIN

Agreed. Of course, I can go no further.

Cheers,
David.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150727201431.GA15635@alum

Re: Help - 13-year Debian veteran can't install Jessie

[Doug McGarrett]

On 7/27/2015 2:30 PM, Glenn English wrote:


On Jul 27, 2015, at 11:49 AM, Michael Fothergill 
 wrote:




On 27 July 2015 at 18:27, Mark Allums  wrote:
On 07/27/2015 08:46 AM, Hans wrote:
Am Montag, 27. Juli 2015, 08:13:29 schrieb john vera:

In one word, drivers.



Don't we mean: firmware.  Nonfree firmware was removed from Debian main for 
some silly reason.  A lot of hardware needs it to function.


​I agree.  Having to install the firmware manually to get X11 working is a bit 
Arthur Tuttlesque.

Why not go the whole hog and install Gentoo instead?


Guys, this is not tough. Just put "non-free" in your apt sources file line(s), 
and you'll never see the difference. The firmware in not unencumbered; it's $free, but 
not beer free. You can get it any time you ask for it.



Doesn't that necessitate being able to install the program first?

--doug


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/55b68f1e.2090...@optonline.net

Letsencrypt - Debian?

[Michael Bonert]

Is there a time line for releasing a "Let's Encrypt" ( letsencrypt) package
for Debian?  Will it be backported to Debian stable?

I did note discussion of that here:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=774387

It is available at github:
https://github.com/letsencrypt/letsencrypt

There is a mailing list archive for letsencrypt development
https://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/letsencrypt-devel/
... but it seems to be inactive.

I would be delighted to go 'https' on the modest website I have helped
to build.  I hope the package comes when 'Let's Encrypt' goes live. :-)

Michael


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/20150727153749.q7670b8lcwgog...@webmail.utoronto.ca

Re: Help - 13-year Debian veteran can't install Jessie

[Curt]

On 2015-07-27, John L. Ries  wrote:
>
> Ideals are good, but one still has to deal with reality.
>

You can find some reality here:

http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/




-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/slrnmrd3mn.29h.cu...@einstein.electron.org

Re: alpine mail client with gmx.net as mail provider

[Nicolas George]

Le nonidi 9 thermidor, an CCXXIII, David Wright a écrit :
> OK. It would be nice to know which port numbers alpine is trying to
> use.

strace can tell you that and much more, especially if the encryption is done
by a separate program.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: alpine mail client with gmx.net as mail provider

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

> OK. It would be nice to know which port numbers alpine is trying to
> use.

It did connect with explicitely setting port 587 for "/tls/".

But i bet that neither port nor encryption protocol is the
problem. If not alpine mimicks a SMTP error 503 then the
connection is good enough to transmit this server error
message to the alpine client.


> So AIUI alpine is sending and receiving plaintext and your stunnel
> does the encryption. And this stopped working 2015 mid-June.

Yes. By some change in the "Nemesis" server, i guess.


> I don't know whether the fact that it hangs is something that started
> happening in mid-June (for everyone).

It only hangs for the openssl run which we both tried.
It does not hang for stunnel or for alpine.

It might be that different mail accounts are dispatched
to different servers. Now mine got updated.


> Were I a user of mail.gmx.net, I would ask them.

Futile. They'd want me to use the web interface with lots
of advertising.


> so case is sensitive. I can't reconcile it with rfc5321.

Nemesis obviously does not properly get to see your texts.
man 1 s_client says "any key presses will be sent to the server".
This might not be what a SMTP server expects. RFC 821 prescibes
"" as line end mark.
Further i read in man s_client:
"if the line begins with a Q or if end of file is reached,
 the connection will be closed down".
So not SMTP did react on QUIT, but openssl s_client did react
on Q.

Try again with option -crlf

  openssl s_client -crlf -connect mail.gmx.net:465

It brings me to

  220 gmx.com (mrgmx102) Nemesis ESMTP Service ready
  EHLO junk
  250-gmx.com Hello junk [79.192.75.113]
  250-SIZE 69920427
  250 AUTH LOGIN PLAIN


> I don't get the results that your stunnel (which I know nothing
> about) is providing above.

It's not my stunnel. Nevertheless very handy.
https://packages.debian.org/jessie/stunnel4


Have a nice day :)

Thomas


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/15339554935120479...@scdbackup.webframe.org

Re: Help - 13-year Debian veteran can't install Jessie

[Ron]

On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 12:30:20 -0600
Glenn English  wrote:

> Guys, this is not tough. Just put "non-free" in your apt sources file 
> line(s), and you'll never see the difference. The firmware in not 
> unencumbered; it's $free, but not beer free. You can get it any time you ask 
> for it.

We are talking ere of making it available at install time...
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
   Selre bið æghwæe þæt he hsi freond wrece, þonne he fella murne.
-- Beowulf

   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/2015072714.62fb6...@ron.cerrocora.org

Re: udev foolishness in wheezy

[Ron]

On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 15:57:45 + (UTC)
Liam O'Toole  wrote:

> > Is there a way to make udev "forget" the names it has assigned ?  
> 
> Yes. Just delete the file /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net and
> reboot.

And while on this subject, can udev be made to "forget" all the hot-pluggable 
drives it has "seen" in the past ?
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
   Selre bið æghwæe þæt he hsi freond wrece, þonne he fella murne.
-- Beowulf

   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150727142041.7d255...@ron.cerrocora.org

Re: udev foolishness in wheezy

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 27 July 2015 11:56:19 Liam O'Toole wrote:
> On 2015-07-27, Lisi Reisz  wrote:
> > On Monday 27 July 2015 14:58:58 Gene Heskett wrote:
> >> Greetings all;
> >>
> >> I am in the process of building up an old MSI K8M890M2-V
> >> motherboard, with an Athlon 64X2 at 3.8Ghz on it, to be used for
> >> cnc machine control, and while I finally did get networking up and
> >> running, I was amazed to find that udev would create an eth0 on
> >> finding an 8139too on the motherboard, this is in dmesg, but then
> >> renames it to eth5!  Fixing my /etc/network/interfaces file to
> >> bring up eth5 made it work normally.
> >>
> >> But call me bumfuzzled by that remaning, what genius thought that
> >> was a good idea?
> >>
> >> And I've not found an entry in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net
> >> that would explain it.  Can someone advise as to the reasoning for
> >> that?
> >
> > It is counting the networks cards that it has met since it was
> > installed, I think.  If it bothers you, try reinstalling.
>
> No need for such drastic action (and let's not forgot Gene's
> protracted adventures with the installer). Just delete the file
> /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net and reboot. It will be regenerated
> with the ethernet device as eth0 (assuming it's the only such device
> on board).

It is the only rj45 on this board.  I'd best re-edit interfaces to fix it 
back to eth0 at the same time.
>
Thanks Liam

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201507271437.53445.ghesk...@wdtv.com

Re: udev foolishness in wheezy

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 27 July 2015 11:33:11 Chris Bannister wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 09:58:58AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > I am in the process of building up an old MSI K8M890M2-V
> > motherboard, with an Athlon 64X2 at 3.8Ghz on it, to be used for cnc
> > machine control, and while I finally did get networking up and
> > running, I was amazed to find that udev would create an eth0 on
> > finding an 8139too on the motherboard, this is in dmesg, but then
> > renames it to eth5!  Fixing my /etc/network/interfaces file to bring
> > up eth5 made it work normally.
> >
> > But call me bumfuzzled by that remaning, what genius thought that
> > was a good idea?
> >
> > And I've not found an entry in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net
> > that would explain it.  Can someone advise as to the reasoning for
> > that?
>
> I found this:
>
> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInt
>erfaceNames/

No, customized wheezy.

> where the first couple of paragraphs has an interesting blurb.
>
> Is this on a Jessie system?
>
> --
> "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
> who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the
> oppressing." --- Malcolm X

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201507271435.0.ghesk...@wdtv.com

Re: udev foolishness in wheezy

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 27 July 2015 10:48:21 Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Monday 27 July 2015 14:58:58 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > I am in the process of building up an old MSI K8M890M2-V
> > motherboard, with an Athlon 64X2 at 3.8Ghz on it, to be used for cnc
> > machine control, and while I finally did get networking up and
> > running, I was amazed to find that udev would create an eth0 on
> > finding an 8139too on the motherboard, this is in dmesg, but then
> > renames it to eth5!  Fixing my /etc/network/interfaces file to bring
> > up eth5 made it work normally.
> >
> > But call me bumfuzzled by that remaning, what genius thought that
> > was a good idea?
> >
> > And I've not found an entry in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net
> > that would explain it.  Can someone advise as to the reasoning for
> > that?
>
> It is counting the networks cards that it has met since it was
> installed, I think.  If it bothers you, try reinstalling.

I would much druther find and zero out where it keeps that count but 
since I have it working, it can be one of those things I do after I make 
a run of round tuit's I've been pomising folks for yonks.

This drive has now been in at least 4 systems, looking for one with 
enough iron & memory to do this job.  I think I've found it, but the 
board is rated for up to 400 Mhz memory, but 512k 400Mhz DDR PC3200 
doesn't work.  I have some new 1Gb, 400 Mhz stuff coming by piper cub 
tomorrow in case what I have is defective.  Its currently running fine 
with only half a gig of 266Ghz DDR in it, so I am working on 
configuration stuffs ATM.

Thanks Lisi.

> Lisi

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201507271434.04443.ghesk...@wdtv.com

Re: alpine mail client with gmx.net as mail provider

[David Wright]

Quoting Thomas Schmitt (scdbac...@gmx.net):
> David Wright wrote:
> 
> > > I can direct alpine unencrypted to port 30029 and see the same
> > > effect as with alpine's own encryption via "/ssl/" or "/tls/".
> 
> > I'm sorry if I appear to be thick but I get very little sense from
> > "see the same effect as with alpine's own encryption". I can't be
> > certain what works and what fails when you express it like that.
> 
> All three variations of alpine SMTP configuration which i tried
> do not work:
> 
>  smtp-server=mail.gmx.net/ssl/user=my_user...@gmx.net
>  smtp-server=mail.gmx.net/tls/user=my_user...@gmx.net

OK. It would be nice to know which port numbers alpine is trying to
use. I've always found it pays to specify them explicitly and,
when things don't work (like in a motel), try other alternatives.
25, 465, 785, 2525, 25025 etc.

>  smtp-server=localhost:30029/user=my_user...@gmx.net
> 
> The third one is using a stunnel process at port 30029 which
> encrypts the communication and forwards it to and from
> port 465 of mail.gmx.net.

So AIUI alpine is sending and receiving plaintext and your stunnel
does the encryption. And this stopped working 2015 mid-June.
Not having tried mail.gmx.net:465 myself before a few hours ago, I
don't know whether the fact that it hangs is something that started
happening in mid-June (for everyone). Were I a user of mail.gmx.net,
I would ask them.

> The effect is that i see indications of a beginning (E)SMTP
> dialog up to the prompt for a password. But the attempt to
> hand over the mail fails with alpine displaying the message
> "Bad sequence of commands". I assume it stems from the server.
> 
> > 250 AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
> 
> This is what i assume to be triggering the alpine passowrd
> prompt. So i believe that alpine gets that far with the
> server.
> 
> 
> > I can't start 587 as an encrypted connection: [...]
> > which appears normal. However, 465 seems to behave oddly:
> 
> I understand 587 is for encryption being started inside
> the ESMTP dialog. There is a STARTTLS command:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STARTTLS
> 
> Port 465 is used by GMX for ESMTP which begins already encrypted.
> 
> 
> > $ openssl s_client -connect mail.gmx.net:465
> > ...
> > 220 gmx.com (mrgmx001) Nemesis ESMTP Service ready
> > ehlo junk
> > ^C as it hung.
> > I would have expected a reply here, or to be thrown off.
> 
> Must be something about the openssl run.
> I can reproduce it here but am too lazy to explore :))

Well I tried again from another machine and managed to provoke some
life into it, but the responses weren't what I expected. Only two
commands did anything:

it: 220 gmx.com (mrgmx101) Nemesis ESMTP Service ready
me: noop
me: NOOP
me: quit
me: QUIT
it: DONE
$

and

it: 220 gmx.com (mrgmx101) Nemesis ESMTP Service ready
me: rset
me: RSET
it: RENEGOTIATING
it: 3073837208:error:14094153:SSL routines:SSL3_READ_BYTES:no 
renegotiation:s3_pkt.c:1247:
$

so case is sensitive. I can't reconcile it with rfc5321.

> Trying telnet via stunnel:
> 
>   $ telnet localhost 30029
>   Trying ::1...
>   Trying 127.0.0.1...
>   Connected to localhost.
>   Escape character is '^]'.
>   220 gmx.com (mrgmx003) Nemesis ESMTP Service ready
>   ehlo junk
>   250-gmx.com Hello junk [79.192.75.113]
>   250-SIZE 69920427
>   250 AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
> 
> My own SMTP client does this dialog via stunnel:
> 
>   < 220 gmx.com (mrgmx103) Nemesis ESMTP Service ready
>   > EHLO scdbackup.webframe.org
>   < 250-gmx.com Hello scdbackup.webframe.org [79.192.75.113]
>   < 250-SIZE 69920427
>   < 250 AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
>   > MAIL FROM:
>   < 530 Authentication required
>   > AUTH PLAIN
>   < 334 
>   > (secret text)
>   < 235 Authentication succeeded
>   > MAIL FROM:
>   < 250 Requested mail action okay, completed
>   ...
> 
> and sucessfully delivers the mail.

Fair enough. I don't wait for 530 but authenticate straight away,
and ditto 334. But I can't get any response from ehlo or EHLO,
so I give up.

To summarise, I don't use alpine myself, you can't show any logs, and
the server doesn't behave the same for you and me. Or, at least,
I've used   openssl s_client -connect mail.gmx.net:465
and I don't get the results that your stunnel (which I know nothing
about) is providing above.

> Just that my troubles did not start in october 2014 but
> not before mid june of 2015. Up to then, the alpine of
> my Debian 6 machine could send mail via stunnel and the
> Nemesis of GMX.
> A few days before i got my new Debian 8.1 machine, alpine
> on Debian 6 stopped working. On the new machine it never
> worked.
> 
> I downloaded alpine-2.20.tar.xz now, the newest version i
> could find. It might last a while until i get some insight.

Cheers,
David.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150727184656.GB12183@alum

Re: Help - 13-year Debian veteran can't install Jessie

[John L. Ries]

I understand the desire to put "free software first" and segregate out 
packages that don't meet the standard, but if a free driver is not 
available for one's hardware, then I figure the least Debian could do is 
to offer to install a "non-free" one (purists should be free to change 
the config to block them categorically, so they get what they want).


Ideals are good, but one still has to deal with reality.

--|
John L. Ries  |
Salford Systems   |
Phone: (619)543-8880 x107 |
or (435)867-8885  |
--|


On Mon, 27 Jul 2015, Michael Fothergill wrote:




On 27 July 2015 at 18:27, Mark Allums  wrote:
  On 07/27/2015 08:46 AM, Hans wrote:
Am Montag, 27. Juli 2015, 08:13:29 schrieb john
vera:

In one word, drivers.



  Don't we mean: firmware.  Nonfree firmware was removed from
  Debian main for some silly reason.  A lot of hardware needs it
  to function.


​I agree.  Having to install the firmware manually to get X11 working is a
bit Arthur Tuttlesque.

Why not go the whole hog and install Gentoo instead?

MF

 ​

Re: Help - 13-year Debian veteran can't install Jessie

[Glenn English]

On Jul 27, 2015, at 11:49 AM, Michael Fothergill 
 wrote:

> 
> 
> On 27 July 2015 at 18:27, Mark Allums  wrote:
> On 07/27/2015 08:46 AM, Hans wrote:
> Am Montag, 27. Juli 2015, 08:13:29 schrieb john vera:
> 
> In one word, drivers.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't we mean: firmware.  Nonfree firmware was removed from Debian main for 
> some silly reason.  A lot of hardware needs it to function.
> 
> 
> ​I agree.  Having to install the firmware manually to get X11 working is a 
> bit Arthur Tuttlesque.
> 
> Why not go the whole hog and install Gentoo instead?

Guys, this is not tough. Just put "non-free" in your apt sources file line(s), 
and you'll never see the difference. The firmware in not unencumbered; it's 
$free, but not beer free. You can get it any time you ask for it.

-- 
Glenn English




--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/5b4217cb-c88f-4acd-ac61-13509af51...@slsware.net

Re: Help - 13-year Debian veteran can't install Jessie

[Michael Fothergill]

On 27 July 2015 at 18:27, Mark Allums  wrote:

> On 07/27/2015 08:46 AM, Hans wrote:
>
>> Am Montag, 27. Juli 2015, 08:13:29 schrieb john vera:
>>
>>  In one word, drivers.


>
> Don't we mean: firmware.  Nonfree firmware was removed from Debian main
> for some silly reason.  A lot of hardware needs it to function.
>
>>
>>
​I agree.  Having to install the firmware manually to get X11 working is a
bit Arthur Tuttlesque.

Why not go the whole hog and install Gentoo instead?

MF

 ​

Re: alpine mail client with gmx.net as mail provider

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Bob Bernstein wrote:
> I suggest you join the alpine discussion list.
> https://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/alpine-info

Will ask there after i managed to get version 2.20 running
from source tarball. (Or after i encountered a showstopper.)


Have a nice day :)

Thomas


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/19182554910199787...@scdbackup.webframe.org

Re: alpine mail client with gmx.net as mail provider

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

David Wright wrote:

> > I can direct alpine unencrypted to port 30029 and see the same
> > effect as with alpine's own encryption via "/ssl/" or "/tls/".

> I'm sorry if I appear to be thick but I get very little sense from
> "see the same effect as with alpine's own encryption". I can't be
> certain what works and what fails when you express it like that.

All three variations of alpine SMTP configuration which i tried
do not work:

 smtp-server=mail.gmx.net/ssl/user=my_user...@gmx.net
 smtp-server=mail.gmx.net/tls/user=my_user...@gmx.net
 smtp-server=localhost:30029/user=my_user...@gmx.net

The third one is using a stunnel process at port 30029 which
encrypts the communication and forwards it to and from
port 465 of mail.gmx.net.

The effect is that i see indications of a beginning (E)SMTP
dialog up to the prompt for a password. But the attempt to
hand over the mail fails with alpine displaying the message
"Bad sequence of commands". I assume it stems from the server.


> 250 AUTH LOGIN PLAIN

This is what i assume to be triggering the alpine passowrd
prompt. So i believe that alpine gets that far with the
server.


> I can't start 587 as an encrypted connection: [...]
> which appears normal. However, 465 seems to behave oddly:

I understand 587 is for encryption being started inside
the ESMTP dialog. There is a STARTTLS command:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STARTTLS

Port 465 is used by GMX for ESMTP which begins already encrypted.


> $ openssl s_client -connect mail.gmx.net:465
> ...
> 220 gmx.com (mrgmx001) Nemesis ESMTP Service ready
> ehlo junk
> ^C as it hung.
> I would have expected a reply here, or to be thrown off.

Must be something about the openssl run.
I can reproduce it here but am too lazy to explore :))

Trying telnet via stunnel:

  $ telnet localhost 30029
  Trying ::1...
  Trying 127.0.0.1...
  Connected to localhost.
  Escape character is '^]'.
  220 gmx.com (mrgmx003) Nemesis ESMTP Service ready
  ehlo junk
  250-gmx.com Hello junk [79.192.75.113]
  250-SIZE 69920427
  250 AUTH LOGIN PLAIN

My own SMTP client does this dialog via stunnel:

  < 220 gmx.com (mrgmx103) Nemesis ESMTP Service ready
  > EHLO scdbackup.webframe.org
  < 250-gmx.com Hello scdbackup.webframe.org [79.192.75.113]
  < 250-SIZE 69920427
  < 250 AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
  > MAIL FROM:
  < 530 Authentication required
  > AUTH PLAIN
  < 334 
  > (secret text)
  < 235 Authentication succeeded
  > MAIL FROM:
  < 250 Requested mail action okay, completed
  ...

and sucessfully delivers the mail.


> > Certificate problems look different.
> > I can tell from running an 8 year old system in today's internet.

> If you say so. I don't know how to interpret
> verify error:num=19:self signed certificate in certificate chain
> above.

It did not prevent the connection and it is not what alpine
is reporting to me. I see the cleartext of SMTP error 503.

About the certification problems of openssl in particular
i found:
http://documentation.microfocus.com/help/topic/com.microfocus.eclipse.infocenter.edtest/HHSTSTCERT06.html
I understand one has to declare the self-signed certificates
to be trusted in order to silence the message. But how could
a user judge trustworthiness of a certificate ?


> BTW I assume the same problem as yours is reported at
> http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/networking/203061-alpine-setup-ok-unable-send-email.html

Yes. This is what i experience.

Just that my troubles did not start in october 2014 but
not before mid june of 2015. Up to then, the alpine of
my Debian 6 machine could send mail via stunnel and the
Nemesis of GMX.
A few days before i got my new Debian 8.1 machine, alpine
on Debian 6 stopped working. On the new machine it never
worked.


I downloaded alpine-2.20.tar.xz now, the newest version i
could find. It might last a while until i get some insight.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1876555491048612...@scdbackup.webframe.org

Re: udev foolishness in wheezy

[Don Armstrong]

On Mon, 27 Jul 2015, Gene Heskett wrote:
> I am in the process of building up an old MSI K8M890M2-V motherboard,
> with an Athlon 64X2 at 3.8Ghz on it, to be used for cnc machine
> control, and while I finally did get networking up and running, I was
> amazed to find that udev would create an eth0 on finding an 8139too on
> the motherboard, this is in dmesg, but then renames it to eth5! Fixing
> my /etc/network/interfaces file to bring up eth5 made it work
> normally.
> 
> But call me bumfuzzled by that remaning, what genius thought that was
> a good idea?

Persistent network interface naming is very useful.

> And I've not found an entry in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net
> that would explain it. Can someone advise as to the reasoning for
> that?

If this is Jessie, see /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules. If
it's later, see /usr/share/doc/udev/README.Debian.gz and
/usr/share/doc/udev/NEWS.Debian.gz which contains more details about the
new location or mac specific interface naming scheme.

-- 
Don Armstrong  http://www.donarmstrong.com

The carbon footprint of a single human being is enormous.
If you think about it, your honour,
I'm an environmentalist.
 -- a softer world #283
http://www.asofterworld.com/index.php?id=283


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150727161054.GF22190@geta

Re: cups/cups-browsed: only advertise online network printers

[Brian]

On Mon 27 Jul 2015 at 14:17:52 +0200, Tuxo Holic wrote:

> > On Sun, 26 Jul 2015 20:28:21 +0100, Brian wrote:
> 
> > Your problem (please correct me if I have not understood what you said)
> > is that applications, Iceweasel, Evince etc, still see HP_LaserJet_1020
> > after the server is closed down.
> 
> No, I meant: the server usually stays on until I go to bed, but the
> printer is switched off right away as soon as I no longer use it.
> Clients still see that printer, even after I switched it off.
> And: they also see that printer, if only the server started, with the
> printer still beeing switched off.

Clients see print *queues*, not printers. Print queues are advertised by
the server. The on/off status of the printer is immaterial. If you do not
want the clients to see the queues do

  systemctl stop avahi-daemon.service

at the same time you switch off the printer.

> >> >> BrowseAllow 192.168.1.1
> >> BrowseAllow Server1
> >> BrowsePoll Server1:631
> >
> > Into unknown territory! What's wrong with the defaults? Your server is
> > advertising; the default 'BrowseRemoteProtocols dnssd cups' on the
> > clientworks well, What need is there for these?
> 
> One problem here: The advertising with the default values doesn't work
> since every line responsible for "Browsing" is disabled with a
> comment. For advertising to work on the client, I need at least one
> valid line with either the Printserver IP or the Printserver Hostname
> or the Printserver Subnet.

Your server broadcasts Bonjour packets. Your client machines pick them
up and, with the help of cups-browsed, create local raw queues. There is
no need for the server to use CUPS broadcasts or have cups-browsed on
it.

> > What versions of cups are running on the clients?
> 
> Debian/Jessie on client & sever > 1.7.5

> This means: it is newer than 1.6 thus needs the cups-browsed package
> to advertise network printers, right?

Only needed on the client to browse Bonjour broadcasts, not for
advertising. Please see cups-browsed(8) and the README.Debian for cups.

> A question here: Do I need  to install it on the server as well?

Only if you want it to broadcast queues using the CUPS protocol. Do you?
Why?

> Because like I explained I only changed the client configuration, but
> I changed nothing on the server, which means: I  installed both cups &
> cups-browsed there as well, but left the configuration unchanged as
> far as configuring the printer using the cups webinterface goes: 
> > Find printer > select recommended driver > add printer > select share this
> > printer > save changes > cups restarted.
> I'm not even sure I absolutely need cups on the client ... it might be enough
> to have cups-browsed installed there, in order to find my network printer.

You should try it. :)

> Can you elaborate on the role cups and cups-browsed share these days? Do both
> services have to run on client AND server?

Please see above.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150727162058.gc...@copernicus.demon.co.uk

Re: udev foolishness in wheezy

[Liam O'Toole]

On 2015-07-27, Renaud OLGIATI  wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 15:48:21 +0100
> Lisi Reisz  wrote:
>
>> > I am in the process of building up an old MSI K8M890M2-V motherboard,
>> > with an Athlon 64X2 at 3.8Ghz on it, to be used for cnc machine control,
>> > and while I finally did get networking up and running, I was amazed to
>> > find that udev would create an eth0 on finding an 8139too on the
>> > motherboard, this is in dmesg, but then renames it to eth5!  Fixing
>> > my /etc/network/interfaces file to bring up eth5 made it work normally.
>> >
>> > But call me bumfuzzled by that remaning, what genius thought that was a
>> > good idea?
>> >
>> > And I've not found an entry in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net that
>> > would explain it.  Can someone advise as to the reasoning for that?  
>> 
>> It is counting the networks cards that it has met since it was installed, I 
>> think.  If it bothers you, try reinstalling.
>
> Is there a way to make udev "forget" the names it has assigned ?

Yes. Just delete the file /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net and
reboot.

-- 

Liam



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/slrnmrcl7p.27r.liam.p.otoole@dipsy.tubbynet

Re: Wheezy Installer?

[Markus Schönhaber]

27.07.2015, 17:39 CEST Hugo Vanwoerkom:

> Where do I find the latest Wheezy installer now that Jessie has gone stable?
> Thanks.

If you're looking for install media, here:
http://cdimage.debian.org/mirror/cdimage/archive/

-- 
Regards
  mks



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/55b652cf.2010...@list-post.mks-mail.de

Re: udev foolishness in wheezy

[Liam O'Toole]

On 2015-07-27, Lisi Reisz  wrote:
> On Monday 27 July 2015 14:58:58 Gene Heskett wrote:
>> Greetings all;
>>
>> I am in the process of building up an old MSI K8M890M2-V motherboard,
>> with an Athlon 64X2 at 3.8Ghz on it, to be used for cnc machine control,
>> and while I finally did get networking up and running, I was amazed to
>> find that udev would create an eth0 on finding an 8139too on the
>> motherboard, this is in dmesg, but then renames it to eth5!  Fixing
>> my /etc/network/interfaces file to bring up eth5 made it work normally.
>>
>> But call me bumfuzzled by that remaning, what genius thought that was a
>> good idea?
>>
>> And I've not found an entry in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net that
>> would explain it.  Can someone advise as to the reasoning for that?
>
> It is counting the networks cards that it has met since it was installed, I 
> think.  If it bothers you, try reinstalling.

No need for such drastic action (and let's not forgot Gene's protracted
adventures with the installer). Just delete the file
/etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net and reboot. It will be regenerated
with the ethernet device as eth0 (assuming it's the only such device
on board).

-- 

Liam



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/slrnmrcl53.27r.liam.p.otoole@dipsy.tubbynet

Re: udev foolishness in wheezy

[David Wright]

Quoting Renaud OLGIATI (ren...@olgiati-in-paraguay.org):
> On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 15:48:21 +0100
> Lisi Reisz  wrote:
> 
> > > I am in the process of building up an old MSI K8M890M2-V motherboard,
> > > with an Athlon 64X2 at 3.8Ghz on it, to be used for cnc machine control,
> > > and while I finally did get networking up and running, I was amazed to
> > > find that udev would create an eth0 on finding an 8139too on the
> > > motherboard, this is in dmesg, but then renames it to eth5!  Fixing
> > > my /etc/network/interfaces file to bring up eth5 made it work normally.
> > >
> > > But call me bumfuzzled by that remaning, what genius thought that was a
> > > good idea?
> > >
> > > And I've not found an entry in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net that
> > > would explain it.  Can someone advise as to the reasoning for that?  
> > 
> > It is counting the networks cards that it has met since it was installed, I 
> > think.  If it bothers you, try reinstalling.
> 
> Is there a way to make udev "forget" the names it has assigned ?

I just delete the line in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net
(or set the name to something I like).

Cheers,
David.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150727154353.GA8847@alum

Re: Wheezy Installer?

[Darac Marjal]

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 10:39:35AM -0500, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Where do I find the latest Wheezy installer now that Jessie has gone stable?

https://www.debian.org/releases/wheezy/debian-installer/ but read the
warnings on that page before use.

> Thanks.
> 
> Hugo
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject
> of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
> Archive: https://lists.debian.org/mp5jbp$3a8$1...@ger.gmane.org
> 

-- 
For more information, please reread.


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Pitfalls of german-english dictionaries. Was: What pulls in the tray of my /dev/sr1 ?

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

i wrote:
> > > > btrace(8) (resp. blktrace(8)) seems to be the better

Chris Bannister wrote:
> > > Excuse my ignorance, but I was wondering what 'resp.' means here. 

> > [i missed the point]

Lisi Reisz wrote:
> But what does "resp." mean?

I guess there is something wrong with my use of "respectively".
Google ... ahum ...

Obviously an inappropriate use inspired by german language where
the translation "beziehungsweise" is used to express alternatives
depending on different perspectives.
The english dictionaries rather define it for emphasizing 1:1
relations between tuples. (This we do in math, not in prose.)

Actually there seem to be no single-word translations for
"respectively" and "beziehungsweise". So they met in the
spare parts box and married.
This way our german-english dictionaries offer translations as
reliable as Monty Python's hungarian phrasebook.

It is becoming an international infection (mainly led by us
germans but also with french people involved):
http://ell.stackexchange.com/questions/6491/what-does-resp-mean-in-these-sentences

But hey ! To quote a mail footer from debian-cd list:
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.
"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that
 English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on
 occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them
 unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."  -- James D. Nicoll

So:
"bzw." is a really useful word. Get it and use it whenever
you want to point to a fork in your thoughts.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/18856554924246133...@scdbackup.webframe.org

Re: udev foolishness in wheezy

[Chris Bannister]

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 09:58:58AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
> 
> I am in the process of building up an old MSI K8M890M2-V motherboard, 
> with an Athlon 64X2 at 3.8Ghz on it, to be used for cnc machine control, 
> and while I finally did get networking up and running, I was amazed to 
> find that udev would create an eth0 on finding an 8139too on the 
> motherboard, this is in dmesg, but then renames it to eth5!  Fixing 
> my /etc/network/interfaces file to bring up eth5 made it work normally.
> 
> But call me bumfuzzled by that remaning, what genius thought that was a 
> good idea?
> 
> And I've not found an entry in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net that 
> would explain it.  Can someone advise as to the reasoning for that?

I found this:

http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/

where the first couple of paragraphs has an interesting blurb.

Is this on a Jessie system?

-- 
"If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing." --- Malcolm X


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150727153311.GA14419@tal

Wheezy Installer?

[Hugo Vanwoerkom]

Hi,

Where do I find the latest Wheezy installer now that Jessie has gone stable?
Thanks.

Hugo


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: https://lists.debian.org/mp5jbp$3a8$1...@ger.gmane.org

Re: udev foolishness in wheezy

[Ron]

On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 15:48:21 +0100
Lisi Reisz  wrote:

> > I am in the process of building up an old MSI K8M890M2-V motherboard,
> > with an Athlon 64X2 at 3.8Ghz on it, to be used for cnc machine control,
> > and while I finally did get networking up and running, I was amazed to
> > find that udev would create an eth0 on finding an 8139too on the
> > motherboard, this is in dmesg, but then renames it to eth5!  Fixing
> > my /etc/network/interfaces file to bring up eth5 made it work normally.
> >
> > But call me bumfuzzled by that remaning, what genius thought that was a
> > good idea?
> >
> > And I've not found an entry in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net that
> > would explain it.  Can someone advise as to the reasoning for that?  
> 
> It is counting the networks cards that it has met since it was installed, I 
> think.  If it bothers you, try reinstalling.

Is there a way to make udev "forget" the names it has assigned ?
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
   And it should be the law: If you use the word `paradigm' without knowing
  what the dictionary says it means, you go to jail. No exceptions.
 -- David Jones

   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150727112234.1ced0...@ron.cerrocora.org

Re: alpine mail client with gmx.net as mail provider

[David Wright]

Quoting Thomas Schmitt (scdbac...@gmx.net):
> Hi,
> 
> i wrote:
> > > I get a connection to the SMTP server directly by this line
> > > in ~/.pinerc:
> > >   smtp-server=mail.gmx.net/ssl/user=my_user...@gmx.net
> 
> David Wright wrote:
> > I assume that you're telling me that this does not work, right?
> 
> Yes. It connects, alpine asks for the SMTP password, and then
> it reports the error text which i assume is from SMTP error 503
> issued by the server.
> 
> > > The stunnel port works fine with my own SMTP client
> 
> > I'm not certain what you mean by your own "SMTP client".
> 
> A while ago i had to make a program which uses TCP/IP to
> connect to a server and performs an SMTP dialog to
> hand over mail headers and a mail body. During the years
> it learned some ESMTP because gmx.net more and more drifted
> away from plain RFC 821.
> 
> So i know one working sequence of SMTP commands and use
> it to send this mail.
> 
> 
> > How do I know what's doing
> > any encryption that *might* be done in this case. You don't
> > appear to have told alpine to do any.
> 
> My own SMTP client uses the program stunnel for the encryption.
> Config file:
> 
>   client=yes
>   foreground=yes
>   debug=5
>   pid=
>   sslVersion=all
>   [gmx_smtp]
>   accept=30029
>   connect=mail.gmx.net:465
> 
> My client connects to port 30029 and stunnel connects to gmx.net.
> 
> I can direct alpine unencrypted to port 30029 and see the same
> effect as with alpine's own encryption via "/ssl/" or "/tls/".

I'm sorry if I appear to be thick but I get very little sense from
"see the same effect as with alpine's own encryption". I can't be
certain what works and what fails when you express it like that.

> So alpine's encryption seems ok, because there happens an SMTP
> dialog between alpine and gmx.de.

Again, I have no idea what you actualy observe when you write those
words.

> > I don't see anything on this website about alpine, only pine.
> 
> alpine is pine's official rewrite.
> http://www.washington.edu/alpine/overview/story.html

I ran the washington webpages
http://www.washington.edu/pine/tech-notes/config-notes.html
and http://www.washington.edu/alpine/tech-notes/config-notes.html
through diff and the only significant difference appeared to be
the addition of s/mime to alpine. I cannot find the string "starttls"
anywhere on the washington website, inclusing a search at
http://www.washington.edu/alpine/search.html viz:

Alpine Information Center Search Results
Note: this searchable index does not include the Alpine-Info archives.master.com

starttls [Search][Options]

No documents match the query.

Try using different or fewer search terms.

> GMX published:
> > 'Wenn Ihr Programm die Verschlüsselungsprotokolle SSL und StartTLS
> > nicht ausdrücklich anbietet, genügt es oft auch, einfach eine
> > "verschlüsselte" Verbindung zu aktivieren. Das Protokoll wird in
> > diesem Fall automatisch ausgewählt.'
> 
> Translation:
> If your your program does not explicitly offer the encryption
> protocols SSL and StartTLS, it often suffices to simply activate
> an "encrypted" connection. The protocol will be chosen
> automatically in this case.
> 
> > It seems to suggest some sort of fallback, but how it works I don't know.
> 
> They obviously refer to any mail client which offers
> encryption in some of its menus.

Well, I tried it out and didn't get very far. Of course, I don't know
how to "not explicitly offer the encryption protocols SSL and StartTLS"
when I try to connect with an encryption-handling program (openssl).

Anyway, mail.gmx.net appeared to work perfectly normally on 587:

$ openssl s_client -starttls smtp -crlf -connect mail.gmx.net:587
CONNECTED(0003)
depth=2 C = DE, O = Deutsche Telekom AG, OU = T-TeleSec Trust Center, CN = 
Deutsche Telekom Root CA 2
verify error:num=19:self signed certificate in certificate chain
verify return:0
---
Certificate chain
 0 s:/C=DE/O=1&1 Mail & Media
 
GmbH/ST=Rhineland-Palatinate/L=Montabaur/emailAddress=server-ce...@1und1.de/CN=mail.gmx.net

...

PSK identity: None
PSK identity hint: None
SRP username: None
Start Time: 1437965426
Timeout   : 300 (sec)
Verify return code: 19 (self signed certificate in certificate chain)
---
250 STARTTLS
ehlo junk
250-gmx.com Hello junk [000.000.000.000]
250-SIZE 69920427
250 AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
^C as I have nothing more to say.

I can't start 587 as an encrypted connection:

$ openssl s_client -connect mail.gmx.net:587
CONNECTED(0003)
3073545916:error:140770FC:SSL routines:SSL23_GET_SERVER_HELLO:unknown
protocol:s23_clnt.c:795:
---
no peer certificate available
---
No client certificate CA names sent
---
SSL handshake has read 7 bytes and written 295 bytes
---
New, (NONE), Cipher is (NONE)
Secure Renegotiation IS NOT supported
Compression: NONE
Expansion: NONE
---
$

which appears normal. However, 465 seems to behave oddly:

$ openssl s_client -connect mail.gmx.net:465
CONNECTED(0003)
depth=2 C = DE, O = Deutsche Telek

Re: udev foolishness in wheezy

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 27 July 2015 14:58:58 Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings all;
>
> I am in the process of building up an old MSI K8M890M2-V motherboard,
> with an Athlon 64X2 at 3.8Ghz on it, to be used for cnc machine control,
> and while I finally did get networking up and running, I was amazed to
> find that udev would create an eth0 on finding an 8139too on the
> motherboard, this is in dmesg, but then renames it to eth5!  Fixing
> my /etc/network/interfaces file to bring up eth5 made it work normally.
>
> But call me bumfuzzled by that remaning, what genius thought that was a
> good idea?
>
> And I've not found an entry in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net that
> would explain it.  Can someone advise as to the reasoning for that?

It is counting the networks cards that it has met since it was installed, I 
think.  If it bothers you, try reinstalling.

Lisi


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201507271548.21404.lisi.re...@gmail.com

Re: What pulls in the tray of my /dev/sr1 ?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 27 July 2015 15:17:50 Thomas Schmitt wrote:
> Hi,
>
> i wrote:
> > > btrace(8) (resp. blktrace(8)) seems to be the better
>
> Chris Bannister wrote:
> > Excuse my ignorance, but I was wondering what 'resp.' means here.
>
> btrace lets blktrace do the work and blkparse tell the user.
>
> man 8 btrace:
> "The btrace script provides a quick and easy way to do live  tracing  of
>  block  devices.   It  calls blktrace on the specified devices and pipes
>  the output through blkparse for formatting.  See blktrace (8) for  more
>  in-depth information about how blktrace works."
>
>
> Have a nice day :)

Thanks, Thomas.  But what does "resp." mean?

Lisi


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201507271546.08378.lisi.re...@gmail.com

Re: What pulls in the tray of my /dev/sr1 ?

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

i wrote:
> > btrace(8) (resp. blktrace(8)) seems to be the better

Chris Bannister wrote:
> Excuse my ignorance, but I was wondering what 'resp.' means here. 

btrace lets blktrace do the work and blkparse tell the user.

man 8 btrace:
"The btrace script provides a quick and easy way to do live  tracing  of
 block  devices.   It  calls blktrace on the specified devices and pipes
 the output through blkparse for formatting.  See blktrace (8) for  more
 in-depth information about how blktrace works."


Have a nice day :)

Thomas


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/26594554899122450...@scdbackup.webframe.org

udev foolishness in wheezy

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

I am in the process of building up an old MSI K8M890M2-V motherboard, 
with an Athlon 64X2 at 3.8Ghz on it, to be used for cnc machine control, 
and while I finally did get networking up and running, I was amazed to 
find that udev would create an eth0 on finding an 8139too on the 
motherboard, this is in dmesg, but then renames it to eth5!  Fixing 
my /etc/network/interfaces file to bring up eth5 made it work normally.

But call me bumfuzzled by that remaning, what genius thought that was a 
good idea?

And I've not found an entry in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net that 
would explain it.  Can someone advise as to the reasoning for that?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201507270958.58480.ghesk...@wdtv.com

Re: Help - 13-year Debian veteran can't install Jessie

[Hans]

Am Montag, 27. Juli 2015, 08:13:29 schrieb john vera:

> > In one word, drivers.
> > 

Hi there,

some hardware is not recognized by the insdtallation kernel. I suggest, to 
install a minimal systerm from the DVD, then download and install the newest 
linux-image-* with another computer and install it manually with dpkg.

Next, reboot and see, if the network device  is recognized. Wiered device 
should be preferred.

Note: I recommend, NOT to install linux-image-4.0-*, as I at the moment this 
kernel does have some problem with some devices. Insread use linux-image-3.16-
* which is running perfectly.

After the network card is recognized, just download and install all the 
packages you need.

This is, how I would do, as I am also many years exprienced. However, if 
someone got a better idea, I am always happy to learn new ways and things.

Good luck!

Hans



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/2670059.sMykemAv1b@protheus2

Re: Help - 13-year Debian veteran can't install Jessie

[john vera]

this is a easy problem between the keyboard and chair xD

2015-07-27 7:19 GMT-04:30 Lisi Reisz :

> On Monday 27 July 2015 03:46:31 David Bruce wrote:
> > I would still welcome any suggestions or insights as to why the 6.03
> > installer works with my home router, but 8.1 does not.
>
> In one word, drivers.
>
> Also, have you checksum checked the net install with firmware disk?
>
> Another suggestion, install Wheezy for now.  It is going to have long term
> support, so will be good for getting on for three years.  But you'll still
> need the unofficial CD.
>
> I too regret the nice easy almost default install.  But the decision was
> made
> only to include free software in the official install CD.
>
> Another approach I have often taken with success (though I haven't tried it
> with Jessie): open the box.  Put in an old network card, that is bound to
> have free drivers.  Install the OS.  Download and install the drivers for
> the
> Ethernet and wireless cards already there.  Take out the old card so that
> it
> is available for next time.
>
> Hope something here helps,
> Lisi
>
>
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
> listmas...@lists.debian.org
> Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201507271249.47826.lisi.re...@gmail.com
>
>


-- 
John M. A. Vera F.
VaSLibre Valencia-Venezuela
Linux Counter # 467192
Huella digital de la clave:  D7F5 0E53 7C0B 19E2 6212  C584 9CD3 3F7D 738F
BE9A
y la verdad OS hara Libres!!

RE: cups/cups-browsed: only advertise online network printers

[Tuxo Holic]

> On Sun, 26 Jul 2015 20:28:21 +0100, Brian wrote:

> Your problem (please correct me if I have not understood what you said)
> is that applications, Iceweasel, Evince etc, still see HP_LaserJet_1020
> after the server is closed down.

No, I meant: the server usually stays on until I go to bed, but the printer is 
switched off right away as soon as I no longer use it.
Clients still see that printer, even after I switched it off.
And: they also see that printer, if only the server started, with the printer 
still beeing switched off.
>> >> BrowseAllow 192.168.1.1
>> BrowseAllow Server1
>> BrowsePoll Server1:631
>
> Into unknown territory! What's wrong with the defaults? Your server is
> advertising; the default 'BrowseRemoteProtocols dnssd cups' on the
> clientworks well, What need is there for these?
> 

One problem here: The advertising with the default values doesn't work since 
every line responsible for "Browsing" is disabled with a comment. For 
advertising to work on the client, I need at least one valid line with either 
the Printserver IP or the Printserver Hostname or the Printserver Subnet.
 AutoShutdown On
>>
> You have a reason for this? One which stands up to scrutiny?
>

Nope, let's remove this then, it has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

> 
> What versions of cups are running on the clients?
> 

Debian/Jessie on client & sever > 1.7.5
This means: it is newer than 1.6 thus needs the cups-browsed package to 
advertise network printers, right?
A question here: Do I need  to install it on the server as well? Because like I 
explained I only changed the client configuration, but I changed nothing on the 
server, which means: I  installed both cups & cups-browsed there as well, but 
left the configuration unchanged as far as configuring the printer using the 
cups webinterface goes: 
> Find printer > select recommended driver > add printer > select share this 
> printer > save changes > cups restarted.
I'm not even sure I absolutely need cups on the client ... it might be enough 
to have cups-browsed installed there, in order to find my network printer.
Can you elaborate on the role cups and cups-browsed share these days? Do both 
services have to run on client AND server?
Because there is one other thing I noticed:
apt-cache show cups-browsed
Package: cups-browsedSource: cups-filtersVersion: 1.0.61-5Installed-Size: 
191Maintainer: Debian Printing Team 
Architecture: amd64Depends: libavahi-client3 
(>= 0.6.16), libavahi-common3 (>= 0.6.16), libavahi-glib1 (>= 0.6.16), libc6 
(>= 2.4), libcups2 (>= 1.6.0), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.14.0), init-system-helpers 
(>= 1.18~)Recommends: avahi-daemon (>= 0.6.31-3~)Enhances: cups
cups is not a dependency here, it's considered an enhancement... it might be 
worth a try to remove cups on the client ... I never connect printers there, 
they will never offer a printer, but  always will have to discover a network 
printer.
  

Re: Help - 13-year Debian veteran can't install Jessie

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 27 July 2015 03:46:31 David Bruce wrote:
> I would still welcome any suggestions or insights as to why the 6.03
> installer works with my home router, but 8.1 does not.

In one word, drivers.

Also, have you checksum checked the net install with firmware disk?

Another suggestion, install Wheezy for now.  It is going to have long term 
support, so will be good for getting on for three years.  But you'll still 
need the unofficial CD. 

I too regret the nice easy almost default install.  But the decision was made 
only to include free software in the official install CD.

Another approach I have often taken with success (though I haven't tried it 
with Jessie): open the box.  Put in an old network card, that is bound to 
have free drivers.  Install the OS.  Download and install the drivers for the 
Ethernet and wireless cards already there.  Take out the old card so that it 
is available for next time.

Hope something here helps,
Lisi


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201507271249.47826.lisi.re...@gmail.com

Re: alpine mail client with gmx.net as mail provider

[Bob Bernstein]

I suggest you join the alpine discussion list. The 
current developer pretty much "lives" there, and there 
is a nice group of subscribers. They talk about this 
kind of question all the time.


https://mailman13.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/alpine-info

--
I am not a loony.  Why should I be tarred with the epithet
'loony' merely because I have a pet halibut?  I've heard
tell that Sir Gerald Nabarro has a pet prawn called Simon
- you wouldn't call him a loony!


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/nycvar.QRO.7.75.3.1507270720170.1569@arjgebyy.ybpnyqbznva

NetworkMangaer - Not reproducible (for me) misbehaviour on ignored interfaces

[Bernd Naumann]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Hello,

My laptop network setup works like the following:

I have a build in wlan- (wlan0) and ethernetcard (eth0), and just want
to use wlan0 managed by NetworkManger, so I have stated a minimal eth0
config in /etc/network/interfaces

# cat /etc/network/interfaces
# This file describes the network interfaces available on your system
# and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5).

# The loopback network interface
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

allow-hotplug eth0
iface eth0 inet dhcp

allow-hotplug wlan2
iface wlan2 inet dhcp


So NetworkManager autoconfigures only wlan0 and not eth0 or any
additional wlan-networkcard...

However, since a few weeks, after upgrading from wezzy to jessie and
then to testing, once in a while I noticed a /bug/ or some thing:

  If I configure eth0 manualy like `ip a a 192.168.1.2/24 dev eth0`
from time to time I get a new default route for eth0 (for wish I have
not asked...) and from time to time also my /etc/resolv.conf changed
to a nameserver on the gateway for that newly added subnet, for which
I did not ask either...

Have someone discovered the same or can point out any pitfall? Like I
said this /bug/ is new since my upgrade to testing...

Thanks for help or any other suggestions!
Bernd

PS: This /bug/ is really annoying!

- -- 
Bernd Naumann 

PGP:   0xA150A04F via pool.sks-keyservers.net
XMPP:  b...@weimarnetz.de

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2
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=YEDA
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/55b61528.8060...@kr217.de

Re: [SOLVED -- sort of] Unwanted application autostarting at login with XFCE

[Joel Rees]

Sorry about firing the blank there.

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 4:53 AM, Stephen Powell  wrote:
> [...]
>
> Thanks to all who participated in this thread.  If anyone has
> a clue how to fix this without purging the package, I'll try
> reinstalling it.

I also sometimes get applications I had closed coming back when I log back in.

XFCE sometimes gets its states wedged.

There is a command I sometimes used to use to reset the wedged state
when the title/menubar disappeared. I'm not remembering it right now.
I'm wondering whether it might have worked for this case, as well. I
think it was

xfwm4 --replace

(This is not really the purpose of the command, as I understand it,
but it seems to clear out some of the wedged stuff. See xfwm4 --help
for more information.)

-- 
Joel Rees

Be careful when you look at conspiracy.
Arm yourself with knowledge of yourself, as well:
http://reiisi.blogspot.jp/2011/10/conspiracy-theories.html


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/CAAr43iM1mQQzCP0E0GePr-hPp=fagfpt-i4rj5xbox37s7l...@mail.gmail.com

Re: Help - 13-year Debian veteran can't install Jessie

[Brian]

On Sun 26 Jul 2015 at 21:46:31 -0500, David Bruce wrote:

> I've installed Debian dozens of times since 2002 and I have never run
> into anything approaching the headaches I am experiencing trying to
> get the current stable Debian onto a newly rebuilt machine. The box is
> a straightforward amd64 setup built from a bundle from Newegg. It has
> onboard Realtek eth0, plus I have an Atheros PCI wireless card that I
> purchased a couple years ago specifically based on Linux
> compatibility.
> 
> Issues:
> 1. the official amd64 netinst CD image fails to let me connect to my
> router via either interface, even when I provide a USB drive with the
> debs for all firmwares.

Firstly, I would use the latest 8.1 image. Secondly, I would concentrate
on a wired connection and probably remove the wireless card from the
machine. Thirdly, at the detection of network hardware and network
configuration stages I would look at the log after each press of the
ENTER key.

The log is on the fourth console and in /var/log/syslog. Things to look
out for would be what is said about missing firmware files, whether a
link is found on eth0 and whether it taken up/down and it is ready or
not ready.

> 2. the unofficial amd64 netinst CD image with firmware included fails
> identically. DHCP autoconfiguration fails, and even if I supply a
> manual ip address the installer can't find ftp.debian.org

If the card was not recognised neither manual nor DHCP configuration
will work.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: 
https://lists.debian.org/27072015103818.43702d17f...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk

Re: Dell Optiplex Chassis Sound with Pulseaudio

[Darac Marjal]

On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 04:00:06PM +0200, Gábor Hársfalvi wrote:
>Dear Users!
>I've installed Pulseaudio in Jessie x64 and I'd like to use my PC internal
>chassis speaker.

Is this a full-range speaker connected (internally) to a sound card, or
is this the little piezo-electric beeper attached to the motherboard?

If the former, pulseaudio *SHOULD* be able to use it. If the latter, try
modprobe'ing "snd_pcsp". Read
https://www.cateee.net/lkddb/web-lkddb/SND_PCSP.html, though.

>Now anything I choose in Pavucontrol and Pulseadio Sound-settings the
>music/sound always silent - and nothing muted.
>Please help me!
>Thanks!

-- 
For more information, please reread.


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: What pulls in the tray of my /dev/sr1 ?

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Alan Greenberger wrote:
> You might try
> lsof -r 1 /dev/sr0
> If you are lucky it will catch something.  If I type eject a few times,
> it will catch one.

btrace(8) (resp. blktrace(8)) seems to be the better
inspector in this case. It shows i/o traffic down to
SCSI commands and there is no race condition involved.

If it does not lie at me then no SCSI command is sent
to the drive from userland or kernel. (After stopping
harmless media event polling by the kernel.)

I riddle, though, about this command

 11,122 2.235197000 16278  G   N [probing-thread]
 11,123 2.235198766 16278  I   R 512 (85 08 2e 00 00 00 01 00 
00 00 00 00 00 00 a1 00 ..) [probing-thread]
 11,124 2.235198941 16278  D   R 512 (85 08 2e 00 00 00 01 00 
00 00 00 00 00 00 a1 00 ..) [probing-thread]
 11,125 2.236231372 0  C   R (85 08 2e 00 00 00 01 00 00 00 
00 00 00 00 a1 00 ..) [2]

I cannot find command 0x85 among SPC, SBC, or MMC commands.
Wikipedia has it as ATA PASS-THROUGH(16). Obviously the
contrary of the ATA command which transports SCSI commands.
It seems very inappropriate to try executing ATA commands
on an optical drive. Well, my other drives get it too.

Quite suspicious is that btrace has hard-to-reproduce side
effects on the drive tray.
I had one eject on start of btrace /dev/sr1 (could not see
the 0x1B command which is supposed to do that).
About every second run of btrace keeps the loaded tray from
being manually ejected. Obviously by command 0x1E PREVENT
ALLOW MEDIA REMOVAL like this:

 11,122 1266874889.706979665  9753  G   N [cdrom_id]
 11,123 1266874889.706979928  9753  I   N 0 (1e 00 00 00 01 00 ..) 
[cdrom_id]
 11,124 1266874889.706980210  9753  D   N 0 (1e 00 00 00 01 00 ..) 
[cdrom_id]

No process 9753 to see. "cdrom_id" sounds like an udev action.
The timestamp 1266874889 is far higher than my uptime.

Manual tray ejection is then delayed until btrace ends.
This blocking of manual ejection does not happen without
btrace running.

Possibly the method by which blktrace attaches to the
device file causes a little avalanche of kernel and/or
udev activities.


-
Whatever, under the assumption that blktrace does not lie
about non-traffic at the time of the unwanted pull-in:

Since the system was booted via BIOS emulation, i do not
see much responsibility of Debian's boot equipment to
disable any EFI runtime services which might send SCSI
commands without the knowledge of the Linux kernel.

So for now, it seems to be a hardware peculiarity.
Either of the motherboard ASUS P9D WS or of the drive
LG GH24NSC0.
I will learn more when there is an occasion to split
both apart.

(I silently apologize for any secret hostile thoughts
 towards udev, systemd, usdisks2, gvfs, and alike.)
 

Have a nice day :)

Thomas


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org 
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/21154554747662516...@scdbackup.webframe.org

Re: Help - 13-year Debian veteran can't install Jessie

[Jochen Spieker]

David Bruce:
>
> I've installed Debian dozens of times since 2002 and I have never run
> into anything approaching the headaches I am experiencing trying to
> get the current stable Debian onto a newly rebuilt machine. The box is
> a straightforward amd64 setup built from a bundle from Newegg. It has
> onboard Realtek eth0, plus I have an Atheros PCI wireless card that I
> purchased a couple years ago specifically based on Linux
> compatibility.

I probably cannot give concrete advice, but what might help is if you
list lspci output for your network cards plus anything you can get from
log files, either in the installer or from a running system.

Personally, my approach would be to install a minimal system without
networking first and then use that to diagnose the situation. Of course
that assumes you have a second system with internet access (or
dual-booting or a live CD or …)

J.
-- 
Nothing is as I planned it.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
 


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature