Re: odd load patterns

[Frédéric Marchal]

On Tuesday 13 September 2016 20:09:26 Miles Fidelman wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Lately, our server has been showing high loading, but top shows that the
> CPU is mostly in wait mode, and iotop shows low disk i/o traffic.

How do you know the load is high? Where is the indication coming from?

 
> Usually, the system shows high load when either
> 
> a. Someone is indexing our web server (which shows up as CPU load on
> apache).
> 
> b. Our list manager is processing a bunch of traffic (most of the load
> comes from spam and virus filtering - which shows up as cpu load on
> amavisd, and clamd, as well as a lot of disk i/o).
> 
> The one place I see this effect behavior, if for email clients accessing
> IMAP - I've been seeing timeouts, and exceptionally high delays to load
> an inbox, or move stuff to the trash.
> 
> This pattern is new - and there's really nothing that I've changed in
> terms of configuration or loading that I can see.
> 
> So... any thoughts?  Any diagnostic approaches?

Could the heat sink or fans be clogged with dust?

If heat can't be extracted properly, the CPU will lower its frequency and 
appears sluggish. The fan will turn at top speed too.

I'm interested in more opinions and diagnostic tools too because my laptop 
suddenly became very slow and unresponsive yesterday until I restarted it. top 
was showing a mostly idle cpu but kde system activity was displaying a lot of 
"disk sleep".

The computer was fast again if I stopped firefox and libreoffice calc. It went 
slow again if I started any of them. Restarting the computer solved the 
problem.

Frederic

Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved

[Felix Miata]

Alan McConnell composed on 2016-09-13 20:50 (UTC-0400):


Lisi Reisz composed:



Gene Heskett wrote:



Now I am going to push back Alan.



If you are going to come in here and berate folks about this and that,
the first thing you need to do is to train your email agent



(wth is "X-Mailer: Zimbra 7.2.6_GA_2926 (ZimbraWebClient - GC46
(Win)/7.2.6_GA_2926)" never heard of it)

...

https://www.itg.ias.edu/content/logging-zimbra-web-client

...

Interesting that the IAS uses Zimbra.  I've been after Paul Heller for years
to get rid of Zimbra, a huge clunky webmail interface, and I only use it when
when my home Debian install is, for some reason, not functional.  I apologize 
for
Zimbra's inadequacies, failure to produce '>' as my home mutt so nicely does.


Just because one is unable to get whatever she is using to compose a reply 
according to standards automatically doesn't excuse one who knows better from 
conforming. Apologizing, particularly while continuing to not conform, does 
not excuse. You are responsible for what you post, not your posting agent.


...

But maybe someone
can tell me why the installer can't look at the partitions and determine that 
there
is some kind of OS already installed?  Why does it have to know about Windows 
10 to
behave sensibly?  "Curious minds . . . "


As explained by Brian on 2016-09-13 15:40 (UTC+0100), first came Jessie, then 
came Windows 10, and an apparent solution has since been provided for those 
who choose to install a Debian version younger than Windows 10.


It does seem curious that the Debian installer would need knowledge of a 
particular Windows version in order to provide a boot menu selection for it, 
rather than simply having one that says "Windows", booting from whatever 
non-native/NTFS filesystem it happens to find containing anything resembling 
boot sector code.


Should you be game to try installing Jessie again, you might try a network 
installation started via a Stretch installer. Possibly (I haven't tried, and 
not only do I have no interest in kicking either of my sleeping dog Windows 
10s, I'm exclusively responsible for primary bootloader maintenance on all my 
computers, and rarely allow os-prober to run.) the os-prober shortcoming that 
troubled you might be avoided in such manner.

--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved

[Alan McConnell]

- Original Message -
From: "Lisi Reisz" 
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 3:58:01 PM
Subject: Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved

On Tuesday 13 September 2016 18:24:07 Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 13 September 2016 08:57:19 Alan McConnell wrote:
> > Warning:  This E-mail is for the most part in the nature of a pushback
> > against various insinuations that have been made.
>
> Now I am going to push back Alan.
>
> If you are going to come in here and berate folks about this and that,
> the first thing you need to do is to train your email agent
>
> (wth is "X-Mailer: Zimbra 7.2.6_GA_2926 (ZimbraWebClient - GC46
> (Win)/7.2.6_GA_2926)" never heard of it)

https://www.itg.ias.edu/content/logging-zimbra-web-client
   Interesting that the IAS uses Zimbra.  I've been after Paul Heller for 
years
   to get rid of Zimbra, a huge clunky webmail interface, and I only use it 
when
   when my home Debian install is, for some reason, not functional.  I 
apologize for
   Zimbra's inadequacies, failure to produce '>' as my home mutt so nicely 
does.

It isn't an email client, and obviously can't do threading and quoting and 
things.  Alan clearly doesn't understand them, just as he doesn't understand 
what the word "solved" means.  Hint for Alan:  it doesn't mean the same as 
kludged.
   Sorry, I do know what 'solved' means, and I do say that _my_ problem is
   solved.  But my solution, as I've said over and over again, is not one 
that
   I can give to people who are running a dual boot system at my urging.



> to properly quote, and honor existing quotes, if for no other reason than
> to help us identify who wrote what.  That is what all those leading >
> and >> > are all about. It is also part of the email protocol that has
> existed since the late 80's of the last century.
   Absolutely!  I couldn't agree more.  When I get Jessie running properly 
on
   my new Dell I'll have my emacs put in quotes as they should be.  But I 
don't
   know how to do it on Zimbra, which, I'll repeat, is a foul piece of SW.  
For
   now I'm indenting my replies.  I hope all your mail readers respect my
   indentations; I have a suspicion that some of them don't.

   Re Royal Holloway: boys were added in 1966, a year before my time there. 
 But
   there were always male faculty there, especially in math, which subject 
has,
   most unfortunately, suffered from a dearth of qualified women.  This is 
beginning
   to change: the AMS puts a lot of effort in supporting women and 
departments
   supporting women.

   More perhaps tomorrow.  I have tasks to perform before bed.  But maybe 
someone
   can tell me why the installer can't look at the partitions and determine 
that there
   is some kind of OS already installed?  Why does it have to know about 
Windows 10 to
   behave sensibly?  "Curious minds . . . "

Best wishes,

Alan

Re: Gnome 3.21: how to define compose key?

[Neal P. Murphy]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 19:46:03 -0400
Doug  wrote:

> On 09/13/2016 04:40 PM, David Wright wrote:
> > On Tue 13 Sep 2016 at 15:12:17 (-0400), Doug wrote:
> >> On 09/13/2016 01:07 AM, david...@freevolt.org wrote:
> >>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, Doug wrote:
> >>>
>  On 09/11/2016 11:47 PM, david...@freevolt.org wrote:
> > On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, david...@freevolt.org wrote:
> >
> >> And if I wanted that behavior all the time, I would edit the file
> >> /etc/default/keyboard, adding compose:rwin to the comma-separated list
> >> of pairs in XKBOPTIONS.
> > Of course, editing that file will change the default system-wide, for
> > everybody. Even, erm, Mark! (...if running Ubuntu.)
> >
> > Maybe that is not what you want.
> >
> >
>  It looks like your code sets up the right Win key to be Compose,
>  I don't know why it would bother anyone using the machine. It
>  wouldn't stay that way
>  if you rebooted into Windows, and the key does nothing at all
>  (that I know of) in Linux.
> >>> I see your point. That particular change is not going to surprise
> >>> anyone. It won't turn an expected character key into an unexpected
> >>> dead key, and then keep some other user from entering their password,
> >>> quotation marks, etc.
> >>>
> >>> In other words, no fun at all.
> >>>
>  As it happens, I have an old IBM model M keyboard with no
>  Windows keys, so I use the right alt key. Also, PCLOS has an
>  option in the keyboard setup to choose a Compose key. Are you
>  sure that Debian doesn't
>  have that capability built in, somewhere?
> >>> No, I am certainly not certain about that. And I imagine there are
> >>> desktop-environment-specific ways of configuring keyboard default
> >>> preferences like this, and doing so per-user. It will be interesting
> >>> to see if someone who uses the OP's DE suggests one.
> >>>
> >>> In the meantime there is also this:
> >>>
> >>> # dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuation
> >>>
> >>> It asks many questions. One of the questions it eventually asks is
> >>> about your compose key--whether you want one, which key you want it to
> >>> be, etc.
> >>>
> >>> It edits /etc/default/keyboard to conform to your answers. So the same
> >>> caveat about "system-wide changes, hope everyone will be equally
> >>> thrilled" applies. A backup of the file you started with, before you
> >>> made changes, could be convenient to have.
> >>>
>  (I happen to be a big fan of Compose, because even if you don't
>  write a European language,
> >>> Aha, a Brexit joke. Good one.
> >>>
>  it does other useful things—like that m-dash I just wrote.
> >>> Mastery of sarcasm: Check.
> >>>
>  And ½, ⅓, ⅜, ©, 75°, µF, 17¢, and others.)
> >>> I see recognisable glyphs for five out of seven of those. My
> >>> environment does not support the other two.
> >>>
> >>> So I know what they are not, but I don't know what they are. Very
> >>> mysterious. Could be IPA symbols. Could be a happy face next to a
> >>> clover/club symbol. I may never know.
> >> Don't know what you are not seeing. Here's what I wrote—and what I do see—
> >>
> >> one-half, one-third,  three-eighths, copyright symbol, degree sign
> >> after 75, Greek letter mu meaning micro before F (for Farads), cent
> >> sign after17.
> > Oh good, someone who uses these! Can you help me with how you use the
> > last of these characters:
> >
> > ⅓ ⅔ ⅕ ⅖ ⅗ ⅘ ⅙ ⅚ ⅛ ⅜ ⅝ ⅞ ⅟
> >
> > It doesn't say it's a combining character and I can't find any
> > denominators anyway to go with it.
> >
> > (For those people using fonts having qualities other than a wide
> > repertoire, they're the thirds, fifths, sixths and eighths followed
> > by a solitary 1/ numerator.)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > David.
> >
> >
> Dave, I'm not sure, but I don't think you can write a number greater than 8
> in this system.  I just tried to create one-ninth, but was unsuccessful.
> Perhaps someone smarter than me has an answer.
> 
> BTW, there is at least one free Windows app that will give you just 
> about the
> same system--it's called (surprise!) WinCompose. Google it if you use 
> Windows.
> I only use Windows for some audio things that Linux kinda bombs on.
> 
> --doug
> 

I've been using the right menu key (between R-ALT and R-CTRL) to compose for 
some years now

degree (°):  o o
mu (µ):  m u
elipsis (…)  . .
½ ⅓ ¼ ⅕ ⅙ ⅛  1 [2 3 4 5 6 8]
copyright (©)  t m
paragraph (¶)  p !
not equal (≠)  / =
circled #24 (㉔)  ( 2 4 )
Spanish letter after 'n' (ñ)  ~ n
superscript 0 (⁰)  ^ 0
U with umlaut(?) (ü)  " u
em dash (—)  - - -

Look in /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose for the definitions. Not all 
of them work. Some (many?) may require keyboards capable of generating more 
than ASCII. But there are a lot of common uses (such as European 'diacritics').

These usually require programs that display UTF-8.

odd load patterns

[Miles Fidelman]

Hi,

I wonder if anybody might have some thoughts on this:

Lately, our server has been showing high loading, but top shows that the 
CPU is mostly in wait mode, and iotop shows low disk i/o traffic.


Usually, the system shows high load when either

a. Someone is indexing our web server (which shows up as CPU load on 
apache).


b. Our list manager is processing a bunch of traffic (most of the load 
comes from spam and virus filtering - which shows up as cpu load on 
amavisd, and clamd, as well as a lot of disk i/o).


The one place I see this effect behavior, if for email clients accessing 
IMAP - I've been seeing timeouts, and exceptionally high delays to load 
an inbox, or move stuff to the trash.


This pattern is new - and there's really nothing that I've changed in 
terms of configuration or loading that I can see.


So... any thoughts?  Any diagnostic approaches?

Thanks much,

Miles Fidelman

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.   Yogi Berra

Re: Network issue........

[Neal P. Murphy]

On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 09:40:20 +1000
Charlie  wrote:

> On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 19:18:50 -0400 Neal P. Murphy sent:
> 
> > On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 09:00:51 +1000
> > Charlie  wrote:
> > 
> > > On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 09:31:36 -0600 Joe Pfeiffer sent:
> > >   
> > > > > Kernel IP routing table
> > > > > Destination Gateway  Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt Iface
> > > > > 0.0.0.0   10.80.2.85  0.0.0.0 UG 00  0
> > > > > eth0 10.80.2.84  0.0.0.0  255.255.255.252 U  00  0
> > > > > eth0
> > > > >
> > > > > But when I check it through my windows box it comes up as it
> > > > > should, according to my ISP, with the gateway being 10.80.2.86
> > > > >
> > > > > What is happening? Is it allowed to be that slack, one or the
> > > > > other?
> > > > 
> > > > Do you know whether your gateway is doing any sort of network
> > > > address translation?  It seems odd to me that you're getting an
> > > > address range that matches the external address of your modem,
> > > > and that your external address is a 10.x.x.x (since those are all
> > > > non-routable private IPs). I'd expect either the former if no
> > > > translation is being done, or the latter if your external address
> > > > weren't private.  But seeing both at the same time surprises me.
> > > > 
> > > > On my home system, for instance, my comcast cable modem is at
> > > > 10.1.10.1 internally, but 173.163.240.62 externally.
> > > > 
> > > > I have seen DHCP assign different addresses to Windows than to
> > > > Linux, but in your case the gateway box should be grabbing its
> > > > address for itself, and giving your computer the other available
> > > > address.  
> > > 
> > >   After contemplation, my reply is:
> > > 
> > > What can I say?
> > > 
> > > I have no idea about networking and with the previous satellite
> > > system and modem never had the problems I'm experiencing with this
> > > one.
> > > 
> > > Know nothing of network translation or external address.
> > > 
> > > Connecting directly to the modem with a standard Ethernet cat5
> > > cable to a vanilla, up to date Debian testing laptop, get the
> > > result posted.
> > > 
> > > Connecting to the same modem with the same cable to a windows 10
> > > machine, I checked again this morning, because I could get a
> > > connection through the modem after 54 minutes wait.
> > > 
> > > I get: IPv4 address 10.80.2.86
> > > 
> > > Which the person from my ISP was interested in.
> > > 
> > > I get: Default gateway 10.80.2.85
> > > 
> > > I don't know more than that?
> > > 
> > > I have been trying to discover what the problem is with my Satellite
> > > internet connection. Doing this between outages by the NBN Co,
> > > government arm, who own and run it.
> > > 
> > > It's decidedly tricky, and it's not like my Debian system is the
> > > only one having these problems. They are also being experienced by
> > > windows users on the same satellite system.
> > > 
> > > As an aside:
> > > 
> > > Connecting with an Ethernet cable to the wireless router I get:
> > > 
> > > Gateway 192.168.2.1
> > > Destination 192.168.2.0
> > > 
> > > Thanks for taking the time and thinking about this problem I'm
> > > experiencing. I will have to muddle through and just put up the long
> > > wait to get an internet connection after turning on the modem.
> > > 
> > > Charlie  
> > 
> > Might it be related to the different MAC address? Might the ISP lock
> > service to the MAC address it sees, at least for some period of time?
> > 
> > Get the MAC address of your Win10 system and set the NIC of your
> > Debian system to it, for example: ip link set dev eth0 address
> > aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff
> > 
> > See if it works any better once you've cloned the MAC address.
> > 
> > N
> > 
> 
> 
>   After contemplation, my reply is:
> 
> The windows system doesn't find the internet connection either.
> 
> I try to connect with Debian by default and after some 30 or 40
> minutes, a couple of reboots of the modem, bring my eth0 connection up
> and down a couple of times. do direct connection to the modem. If no
> connection found.
> 
> Couple up the windows 10 lappy. First through the wireless non
> connection, rebooting the lappy a couple of times, then the Ethernet
> cable through wireless router and then finally direct to the modem.
> 
> Then, because the connection hasn't been found. I return to the Debian
> lappy, knowing now it's not that system and as I work keep trying
> things and after maybe an hour or often more, get onto a connection.
> 
> One day didn't get on for 2 days, but that was a NBN outage for that
> period.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion.
> Charlie
> 

Try:
  - turn off the modem for 5 minutes (or longer, if needed; it may take longer
for the ISP to 'reset')
  - turn the modem on
  - see if Debian will connect

Does the ISP use DHCP? Or does it use PPPoE? If DHCP, you might try:
  tcpdump -v -i eth0 port 67 or port 68
to see the DHCP traffic. (There may be other options you can add to display 
more 

Re: Gnome 3.21: how to define compose key?

[Doug]

On 09/13/2016 04:40 PM, David Wright wrote:

On Tue 13 Sep 2016 at 15:12:17 (-0400), Doug wrote:

On 09/13/2016 01:07 AM, david...@freevolt.org wrote:

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, Doug wrote:


On 09/11/2016 11:47 PM, david...@freevolt.org wrote:

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, david...@freevolt.org wrote:


And if I wanted that behavior all the time, I would edit the file
/etc/default/keyboard, adding compose:rwin to the comma-separated list
of pairs in XKBOPTIONS.

Of course, editing that file will change the default system-wide, for
everybody. Even, erm, Mark! (...if running Ubuntu.)

Maybe that is not what you want.



It looks like your code sets up the right Win key to be Compose,
I don't know why it would bother anyone using the machine. It
wouldn't stay that way
if you rebooted into Windows, and the key does nothing at all
(that I know of) in Linux.

I see your point. That particular change is not going to surprise
anyone. It won't turn an expected character key into an unexpected
dead key, and then keep some other user from entering their password,
quotation marks, etc.

In other words, no fun at all.


As it happens, I have an old IBM model M keyboard with no
Windows keys, so I use the right alt key. Also, PCLOS has an
option in the keyboard setup to choose a Compose key. Are you
sure that Debian doesn't
have that capability built in, somewhere?

No, I am certainly not certain about that. And I imagine there are
desktop-environment-specific ways of configuring keyboard default
preferences like this, and doing so per-user. It will be interesting
to see if someone who uses the OP's DE suggests one.

In the meantime there is also this:

# dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuation

It asks many questions. One of the questions it eventually asks is
about your compose key--whether you want one, which key you want it to
be, etc.

It edits /etc/default/keyboard to conform to your answers. So the same
caveat about "system-wide changes, hope everyone will be equally
thrilled" applies. A backup of the file you started with, before you
made changes, could be convenient to have.


(I happen to be a big fan of Compose, because even if you don't
write a European language,

Aha, a Brexit joke. Good one.


it does other useful things—like that m-dash I just wrote.

Mastery of sarcasm: Check.


And ½, ⅓, ⅜, ©, 75°, µF, 17¢, and others.)

I see recognisable glyphs for five out of seven of those. My
environment does not support the other two.

So I know what they are not, but I don't know what they are. Very
mysterious. Could be IPA symbols. Could be a happy face next to a
clover/club symbol. I may never know.

Don't know what you are not seeing. Here's what I wrote—and what I do see—

one-half, one-third,  three-eighths, copyright symbol, degree sign
after 75, Greek letter mu meaning micro before F (for Farads), cent
sign after17.

Oh good, someone who uses these! Can you help me with how you use the
last of these characters:

⅓ ⅔ ⅕ ⅖ ⅗ ⅘ ⅙ ⅚ ⅛ ⅜ ⅝ ⅞ ⅟

It doesn't say it's a combining character and I can't find any
denominators anyway to go with it.

(For those people using fonts having qualities other than a wide
repertoire, they're the thirds, fifths, sixths and eighths followed
by a solitary 1/ numerator.)

Cheers,
David.



Dave, I'm not sure, but I don't think you can write a number greater than 8
in this system.  I just tried to create one-ninth, but was unsuccessful.
Perhaps someone smarter than me has an answer.

BTW, there is at least one free Windows app that will give you just 
about the
same system--it's called (surprise!) WinCompose. Google it if you use 
Windows.

I only use Windows for some audio things that Linux kinda bombs on.

--doug

Re: Network issue........

[Charlie]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 19:18:50 -0400 Neal P. Murphy sent:

> On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 09:00:51 +1000
> Charlie  wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 09:31:36 -0600 Joe Pfeiffer sent:
> >   
> > > > Kernel IP routing table
> > > > Destination Gateway  Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt Iface
> > > > 0.0.0.0   10.80.2.85  0.0.0.0 UG 00  0
> > > > eth0 10.80.2.84  0.0.0.0  255.255.255.252 U  00  0
> > > > eth0
> > > >
> > > > But when I check it through my windows box it comes up as it
> > > > should, according to my ISP, with the gateway being 10.80.2.86
> > > >
> > > > What is happening? Is it allowed to be that slack, one or the
> > > > other?
> > > 
> > > Do you know whether your gateway is doing any sort of network
> > > address translation?  It seems odd to me that you're getting an
> > > address range that matches the external address of your modem,
> > > and that your external address is a 10.x.x.x (since those are all
> > > non-routable private IPs). I'd expect either the former if no
> > > translation is being done, or the latter if your external address
> > > weren't private.  But seeing both at the same time surprises me.
> > > 
> > > On my home system, for instance, my comcast cable modem is at
> > > 10.1.10.1 internally, but 173.163.240.62 externally.
> > > 
> > > I have seen DHCP assign different addresses to Windows than to
> > > Linux, but in your case the gateway box should be grabbing its
> > > address for itself, and giving your computer the other available
> > > address.  
> > 
> > After contemplation, my reply is:
> > 
> > What can I say?
> > 
> > I have no idea about networking and with the previous satellite
> > system and modem never had the problems I'm experiencing with this
> > one.
> > 
> > Know nothing of network translation or external address.
> > 
> > Connecting directly to the modem with a standard Ethernet cat5
> > cable to a vanilla, up to date Debian testing laptop, get the
> > result posted.
> > 
> > Connecting to the same modem with the same cable to a windows 10
> > machine, I checked again this morning, because I could get a
> > connection through the modem after 54 minutes wait.
> > 
> > I get: IPv4 address 10.80.2.86
> > 
> > Which the person from my ISP was interested in.
> > 
> > I get: Default gateway 10.80.2.85
> > 
> > I don't know more than that?
> > 
> > I have been trying to discover what the problem is with my Satellite
> > internet connection. Doing this between outages by the NBN Co,
> > government arm, who own and run it.
> > 
> > It's decidedly tricky, and it's not like my Debian system is the
> > only one having these problems. They are also being experienced by
> > windows users on the same satellite system.
> > 
> > As an aside:
> > 
> > Connecting with an Ethernet cable to the wireless router I get:
> > 
> > Gateway 192.168.2.1
> > Destination 192.168.2.0
> > 
> > Thanks for taking the time and thinking about this problem I'm
> > experiencing. I will have to muddle through and just put up the long
> > wait to get an internet connection after turning on the modem.
> > 
> > Charlie  
> 
> Might it be related to the different MAC address? Might the ISP lock
> service to the MAC address it sees, at least for some period of time?
> 
> Get the MAC address of your Win10 system and set the NIC of your
> Debian system to it, for example: ip link set dev eth0 address
> aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff
> 
> See if it works any better once you've cloned the MAC address.
> 
> N
> 


After contemplation, my reply is:

The windows system doesn't find the internet connection either.

I try to connect with Debian by default and after some 30 or 40
minutes, a couple of reboots of the modem, bring my eth0 connection up
and down a couple of times. do direct connection to the modem. If no
connection found.

Couple up the windows 10 lappy. First through the wireless non
connection, rebooting the lappy a couple of times, then the Ethernet
cable through wireless router and then finally direct to the modem.

Then, because the connection hasn't been found. I return to the Debian
lappy, knowing now it's not that system and as I work keep trying
things and after maybe an hour or often more, get onto a connection.

One day didn't get on for 2 days, but that was a NBN outage for that
period.

Thanks for the suggestion.
Charlie

-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***

However mean your life is, meet it and live it; do not shun it
and call it hard names. It is not so bad as you are. It looks
poorest when you are the richest. -Henry David Thoreau

***

Debian GNU/Linux - Magic indeed.

-

Re: Network issue........

[Neal P. Murphy]

On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 09:00:51 +1000
Charlie  wrote:

> On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 09:31:36 -0600 Joe Pfeiffer sent:
> 
> > > Kernel IP routing table
> > > Destination Gateway  Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt Iface
> > > 0.0.0.0   10.80.2.85  0.0.0.0 UG 00  0 eth0
> > > 10.80.2.84  0.0.0.0  255.255.255.252 U  00  0 eth0
> > >
> > > But when I check it through my windows box it comes up as it should,
> > > according to my ISP, with the gateway being 10.80.2.86
> > >
> > > What is happening? Is it allowed to be that slack, one or the
> > > other?  
> > 
> > Do you know whether your gateway is doing any sort of network address
> > translation?  It seems odd to me that you're getting an address range
> > that matches the external address of your modem, and that your
> > external address is a 10.x.x.x (since those are all non-routable
> > private IPs). I'd expect either the former if no translation is being
> > done, or the latter if your external address weren't private.  But
> > seeing both at the same time surprises me.
> > 
> > On my home system, for instance, my comcast cable modem is at
> > 10.1.10.1 internally, but 173.163.240.62 externally.
> > 
> > I have seen DHCP assign different addresses to Windows than to Linux,
> > but in your case the gateway box should be grabbing its address for
> > itself, and giving your computer the other available address.
> 
>   After contemplation, my reply is:
> 
> What can I say?
> 
> I have no idea about networking and with the previous satellite system
> and modem never had the problems I'm experiencing with this one.
> 
> Know nothing of network translation or external address.
> 
> Connecting directly to the modem with a standard Ethernet cat5 cable to
> a vanilla, up to date Debian testing laptop, get the result posted.
> 
> Connecting to the same modem with the same cable to a windows 10
> machine, I checked again this morning, because I could get a connection
> through the modem after 54 minutes wait.
> 
> I get: IPv4 address 10.80.2.86
> 
> Which the person from my ISP was interested in.
> 
> I get: Default gateway 10.80.2.85
> 
> I don't know more than that?
> 
> I have been trying to discover what the problem is with my Satellite
> internet connection. Doing this between outages by the NBN Co,
> government arm, who own and run it.
> 
> It's decidedly tricky, and it's not like my Debian system is the
> only one having these problems. They are also being experienced by
> windows users on the same satellite system.
> 
> As an aside:
> 
> Connecting with an Ethernet cable to the wireless router I get:
> 
> Gateway 192.168.2.1
> Destination 192.168.2.0
> 
> Thanks for taking the time and thinking about this problem I'm
> experiencing. I will have to muddle through and just put up the long
> wait to get an internet connection after turning on the modem.
> 
> Charlie

Might it be related to the different MAC address? Might the ISP lock service to 
the MAC address it sees, at least for some period of time?

Get the MAC address of your Win10 system and set the NIC of your Debian system 
to it, for example:
ip link set dev eth0 address aa:bb:cc:dd:ee:ff

See if it works any better once you've cloned the MAC address.

N

Re: Network issue........

[Charlie]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 09:31:36 -0600 Joe Pfeiffer sent:

> > Kernel IP routing table
> > Destination Gateway  Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt Iface
> > 0.0.0.0   10.80.2.85  0.0.0.0 UG 00  0 eth0
> > 10.80.2.84  0.0.0.0  255.255.255.252 U  00  0 eth0
> >
> > But when I check it through my windows box it comes up as it should,
> > according to my ISP, with the gateway being 10.80.2.86
> >
> > What is happening? Is it allowed to be that slack, one or the
> > other?  
> 
> Do you know whether your gateway is doing any sort of network address
> translation?  It seems odd to me that you're getting an address range
> that matches the external address of your modem, and that your
> external address is a 10.x.x.x (since those are all non-routable
> private IPs). I'd expect either the former if no translation is being
> done, or the latter if your external address weren't private.  But
> seeing both at the same time surprises me.
> 
> On my home system, for instance, my comcast cable modem is at
> 10.1.10.1 internally, but 173.163.240.62 externally.
> 
> I have seen DHCP assign different addresses to Windows than to Linux,
> but in your case the gateway box should be grabbing its address for
> itself, and giving your computer the other available address.

After contemplation, my reply is:

What can I say?

I have no idea about networking and with the previous satellite system
and modem never had the problems I'm experiencing with this one.

Know nothing of network translation or external address.

Connecting directly to the modem with a standard Ethernet cat5 cable to
a vanilla, up to date Debian testing laptop, get the result posted.

Connecting to the same modem with the same cable to a windows 10
machine, I checked again this morning, because I could get a connection
through the modem after 54 minutes wait.

I get: IPv4 address 10.80.2.86

Which the person from my ISP was interested in.

I get: Default gateway 10.80.2.85

I don't know more than that?

I have been trying to discover what the problem is with my Satellite
internet connection. Doing this between outages by the NBN Co,
government arm, who own and run it.

It's decidedly tricky, and it's not like my Debian system is the
only one having these problems. They are also being experienced by
windows users on the same satellite system.

As an aside:

Connecting with an Ethernet cable to the wireless router I get:

Gateway 192.168.2.1
Destination 192.168.2.0

Thanks for taking the time and thinking about this problem I'm
experiencing. I will have to muddle through and just put up the long
wait to get an internet connection after turning on the modem.

Charlie
-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***

To succeed in the world it is not enough to be stupid, you must
also be well-mannered. -Voltaire

***

Debian GNU/Linux - Magic indeed.

-

Re: Gnome 3.21: how to define compose key?

[Siard]

David Wright wrote:
> Oh good, someone who uses these! Can you help me with how you use the
> last of these characters:
> 
> ⅓ ⅔ ⅕ ⅖ ⅗ ⅘ ⅙ ⅚ ⅛ ⅜ ⅝ ⅞ ⅟
> 
> It doesn't say it's a combining character and I can't find any
> denominators anyway to go with it.

Use the subscripts of digits.
E.g. ⅟  followed by  _2  _5  _6
yields ⅟₂₅₆  (1 divided by 256).

Re: Gnome 3.21: how to define compose key?

[davidson]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016, Doug wrote:

On 09/13/2016 01:07 AM, david...@freevolt.org wrote:

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, Doug wrote:

And ½, ⅓, ⅜, ©, 75°, µF, 17¢, and others.)


I see recognisable glyphs for five out of seven of those. My
environment does not support the other two.

So I know what they are not, but I don't know what they are. Very
mysterious. Could be IPA symbols. Could be a happy face next to a
clover/club symbol. I may never know.

Don't know what you are not seeing. Here's what I wrote—and what I do see—

one-half, one-third,  three-eighths, copyright symbol, degree sign after 75, 
Greek letter mu meaning micro before F (for Farads), cent sign after17.


I see now.

Thank you.

--

Re: Bluetooth: impossible to send files from phone to computer

[deloptes]

Frédéric Mesplède wrote:

> I do not know how I am supposed to connect the phone to my computer...
> When I use gnome tool [ http://i66.tinypic.com/2912n89.png ] the
> switch instantly comes back to off position and I cannot turn it on...

Use bluetoothctl to test these. I spent some time before I was able to use
bluetooth. 
The problem with the transfer from phone to computer might be the way your
computer configuration looks like. The easy way to customize it is
bluetoothctl

For transfering files you need obex ftp. I've never transferred from phone
to pc.

regards

Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved

[David Wright]

On Tue 13 Sep 2016 at 21:02:01 (+0100), Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Tuesday 13 September 2016 20:30:20 Brian wrote:
> > > A final question:  I've used Wiktionary to learn that 'whinging' is the
> > > English for what we Murricans call 'whining'.  Is it used a lot nowadays?
> > >  I don't recall ever having heard it when I taught at Royal Holloway
> > > College back in 1967-68.
> >
> > Language changes. One hopes modes of thinking on -user will adapt too.
> 
> I had to check whether there were any (other) men at Royal Holloway (a 
> women's 
> college) in 1967   (There were - just.)

I don't think either of the constituents of RubberNeck disallowed
men on the *staff*. (I also didn't realise they dropped the Neck out
of their name, although Royal Holloway and Bedford New College remains
their legal name.)

Cheers,
David.

Re: Errors when doing a update

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 13 September 2016 21:51:01 david...@freevolt.org wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Sep 2016, Jochen Spieker wrote:
> > Brian LaPlante:
> >> Please find attached a copy of my sources.list and results of doing an
> >> update. Any corrections that need to be made would be greatly
> >> appreciated. Thanks in advance!
> >
> > If you want to solve your problem by editing your sources.list, you need
> > to remove deb-multimedia.org from it. If you also accept other
> > solutions, you could simply import the appropriate key into the apt-key
> > database.
>
> I find no reference to deb-multimedia.org in the section of OP's file
> attachment that contains, according to OP, the contents of
> /etc/apt/sources.list
>
> Four conceivable explanations occur to me:
>
>1. OP only included part of their sources.list when they copy-pasted
>it into their file attachment.
>
>2. OP has files under /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ which include
>references to deb-multimedia.org, and it is those files that need to
>be edited.
>
>3. My grep is broken.
>
>4. Nothing works the way I think it does.
>
> Or, any combination of the four.

I would favour explanation 2.

Lisi

Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 13 September 2016 18:24:07 Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday 13 September 2016 08:57:19 Alan McConnell wrote:
> > Warning:  This E-mail is for the most part in the nature of a pushback
> > against various insinuations that have been made.
>
> Now I am going to push back Alan.
>
> If you are going to come in here and berate folks about this and that,
> the first thing you need to do is to train your email agent
>
> (wth is "X-Mailer: Zimbra 7.2.6_GA_2926 (ZimbraWebClient - GC46
> (Win)/7.2.6_GA_2926)" never heard of it)

https://www.itg.ias.edu/content/logging-zimbra-web-client

It isn't an email client, and obviously can't do threading and quoting and 
things.  Alan clearly doesn't understand them, just as he doesn't understand 
what the word "solved" means.  Hint for Alan:  it doesn't mean the same as 
kludged.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kludged
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kludge#English  (See meaning 3)

Lisi

> to properly quote, and honor existing quotes, if for no other reason than
> to help us identify who wrote what.  That is what all those leading >
> and >> > are all about. It is also part of the email protocol that has
> existed since the late 80's of the last century.
>
> > - Original Message -
>
> Which I scrubbed because there are NO quotes in it other than what my
> email agent added.  Why they were totally removed I've no clue, but it
> marks your email agent as being seriously mis-configured, or was written
> by an idiot.
>
> Please fix it to obey 30 year old email quoting standards.
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett

Re: Errors when doing a update

[davidson]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016, Jochen Spieker wrote:


Brian LaPlante:


Please find attached a copy of my sources.list and results of doing an update. 
Any corrections that need to be made would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in 
advance!


If you want to solve your problem by editing your sources.list, you need
to remove deb-multimedia.org from it. If you also accept other
solutions, you could simply import the appropriate key into the apt-key
database.


I find no reference to deb-multimedia.org in the section of OP's file
attachment that contains, according to OP, the contents of
/etc/apt/sources.list

Four conceivable explanations occur to me:

  1. OP only included part of their sources.list when they copy-pasted
  it into their file attachment.

  2. OP has files under /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ which include
  references to deb-multimedia.org, and it is those files that need to
  be edited.

  3. My grep is broken.

  4. Nothing works the way I think it does.

Or, any combination of the four.

--

Re: Gnome 3.21: how to define compose key?

[David Wright]

On Tue 13 Sep 2016 at 15:12:17 (-0400), Doug wrote:
> On 09/13/2016 01:07 AM, david...@freevolt.org wrote:
> >On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, Doug wrote:
> >
> >>On 09/11/2016 11:47 PM, david...@freevolt.org wrote:
> >>>On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, david...@freevolt.org wrote:
> >>>
> And if I wanted that behavior all the time, I would edit the file
> /etc/default/keyboard, adding compose:rwin to the comma-separated list
> of pairs in XKBOPTIONS.
> >>>
> >>>Of course, editing that file will change the default system-wide, for
> >>>everybody. Even, erm, Mark! (...if running Ubuntu.)
> >>>
> >>>Maybe that is not what you want.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>It looks like your code sets up the right Win key to be Compose,
> >>I don't know why it would bother anyone using the machine. It
> >>wouldn't stay that way
> >>if you rebooted into Windows, and the key does nothing at all
> >>(that I know of) in Linux.
> >
> >I see your point. That particular change is not going to surprise
> >anyone. It won't turn an expected character key into an unexpected
> >dead key, and then keep some other user from entering their password,
> >quotation marks, etc.
> >
> >In other words, no fun at all.
> >
> >>As it happens, I have an old IBM model M keyboard with no
> >>Windows keys, so I use the right alt key. Also, PCLOS has an
> >>option in the keyboard setup to choose a Compose key. Are you
> >>sure that Debian doesn't
> >>have that capability built in, somewhere?
> >
> >No, I am certainly not certain about that. And I imagine there are
> >desktop-environment-specific ways of configuring keyboard default
> >preferences like this, and doing so per-user. It will be interesting
> >to see if someone who uses the OP's DE suggests one.
> >
> >In the meantime there is also this:
> >
> > # dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuation
> >
> >It asks many questions. One of the questions it eventually asks is
> >about your compose key--whether you want one, which key you want it to
> >be, etc.
> >
> >It edits /etc/default/keyboard to conform to your answers. So the same
> >caveat about "system-wide changes, hope everyone will be equally
> >thrilled" applies. A backup of the file you started with, before you
> >made changes, could be convenient to have.
> >
> >>(I happen to be a big fan of Compose, because even if you don't
> >>write a European language,
> >
> >Aha, a Brexit joke. Good one.
> >
> >>it does other useful things—like that m-dash I just wrote.
> >
> >Mastery of sarcasm: Check.
> >
> >>And ½, ⅓, ⅜, ©, 75°, µF, 17¢, and others.)
> >
> >I see recognisable glyphs for five out of seven of those. My
> >environment does not support the other two.
> >
> >So I know what they are not, but I don't know what they are. Very
> >mysterious. Could be IPA symbols. Could be a happy face next to a
> >clover/club symbol. I may never know.
> Don't know what you are not seeing. Here's what I wrote—and what I do see—
> 
> one-half, one-third,  three-eighths, copyright symbol, degree sign
> after 75, Greek letter mu meaning micro before F (for Farads), cent
> sign after17.

Oh good, someone who uses these! Can you help me with how you use the
last of these characters:

⅓ ⅔ ⅕ ⅖ ⅗ ⅘ ⅙ ⅚ ⅛ ⅜ ⅝ ⅞ ⅟

It doesn't say it's a combining character and I can't find any
denominators anyway to go with it.

(For those people using fonts having qualities other than a wide
repertoire, they're the thirds, fifths, sixths and eighths followed
by a solitary 1/ numerator.)

Cheers,
David.

Re: Cannot download Debian CDs

[Frank Vollmann]

Dear Mr. Armstrong,
 
Thank you for your fast answer. And yes, you are right, I shoundn't download as root.
 
The other thing is that aptitude doesn't call java, perl and python, but it is in my logs. Yes indeed wget doesn't use it, I know. But I wonder when I see the Firewall-Log. This is one thing I don't understand!
 
 
Here is the Firewall-Log when I started at the same time wget:
 
Sep 12 12:23:08 uwgs kernel: [xx.yyy]  UWGS: Python-Start dropped IN=br0 OUT=br0 PHYSIN=eth1 PHYSOUT=eth2 MAC=00:0d:b9:36:03:84:00:0d:b9:3a:18:7a:08:00 SRC="" DST=62.146.215.232 LEN=390 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=126 ID=4557 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=53137 DPT=80 WINDOW=16302 RES=0x00 ACK PSH URGP=0
 
and
Sep 12 14:35:43 uwgs kernel: [x.yy]  UWGS: Python-Start dropped IN=br0 OUT=br0 PHYSIN=eth2 PHYSOUT=eth1 MAC=00:0d:b9:3a:18:7a:00:0d:b9:36:03:84:08:00 SRC="" DST=10.xxx.xxx.xxx LEN=1492 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=64 ID=25248 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=80 DPT=37565 WINDOW=235 RES=0x00 ACK PSH URGP=0 
ip link shows:
 
frank@pc01:/home/sysop# ip link1: lo:  mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN mode DEFAULT group default     link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:002: eth0:  mtu 1500 qdisc mq state UP mode DEFAULT group default qlen 1000    link/ether xx.xx.xx.xx.xx.xx brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff3: eth1:  mtu 1500 qdisc noop state DOWN mode DEFAULT group default qlen 1000    link/ether xx.xx.xx.xx.xx.xx brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff4: mcv0@eth0:  mtu 1500 qdisc noqueue master br0 state UP mode DEFAULT group default     link/ether xx.xx.xx.xx.xx.xx  brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff5: br0:  mtu 1500 qdisc noqueue state UP mode DEFAULT group default     link/ether xx.xx.xx.xx.xx.xx brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:fffrank@pc01:/home/sysop# 
MTU 1500 is OK, because there is a physical Net-Separation, and there is a router forwarding the packets.
 
Everything works in my net, without Debian Update and downloading CD-Images.
 
We are developping a debian based High End Firewalls and there must be a solution.
 
We work only with ipv4. Ipv6 is disabled. Is that the problem?
 
Best regards
Frank Vollmann
 
> Don Armstrong  hat am 13. September 2016 um 18:14 geschrieben:> > > First off, ow...@bugs.debian.org and listmas...@lists.debian.org are not> the right place for user support. You can e-mail> debian-user@lists.debian.org (in english) or> debian-user...@lists.debian.org (in german) for support.> > On Tue, 13 Sep 2016, Frank Vollmann wrote:> > Unfortunately the download breaks with wget too.> > [...]> > > In »»firmware-8.5.0-i386-netinst.iso.1«« speichern.> > -8.5.0-i386-netinst 0%[ ] 333,38K --.-KB/s eta 20h 31m^C> > This shows wget working (or at least starting to work) but you probably> shouldn't be doing this as root.> > > Why wget and aptitude call java, python and perl on my local machine?> > I saw it in the firewall-log-files. Is there a firewall related> > problem? A test with perl, python and java allowed didn't succeeded.> > Aptitude doesn't call java. perl and python are likely required.> > > This problem have also some other Debian based linucies. Gentoo direct> > download Tails and Arch Linux per Bit-Torrent are working. Debian and> > debian based distributions is still standing after three days at 0 %.> > If it's not transferring packets, this may be an issue with MTU or> something else wrong with your network configuration.> > The output of tcpdump and/or ip link; may be informative.> > > -- > Don Armstrong https://www.donarmstrong.com> > The game of science is, in principle, without end. He who decides one> day that scientific statements do not call for any further test, and> that they can be regarded as finally verified, retires from the game.> -- Sir Karl Popper _The Logic of Scientific Discovery_ §11

  Frank Vollmann Geschäftsführender Gesellschafter Fon: +49 (0)7393 9546-484 Fax: +49 (0)7393 9546-487 E-Mail: f.vollm...@theriak-iss.com Web: www.theriak-iss.com

 BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:3.0
PRODID:OPEN-XCHANGE
FN:Frank  Vollmann
N:Vollmann;Frank;;;
X-OPEN-XCHANGE-CTYPE:contact
ADR;TYPE=work:;;Bökeler 1;Hausen am Bussen;Germany\, Baden-Württemberg;D-89597 ;
ADR;TYPE=home:;;
TEL;TYPE=work,voice,pref:+49 (0)7393 9546-484
TEL;TYPE=work,fax:+49 (0)7393 9546-487
TEL;TYPE=home,voice,pref:
TEL;TYPE=cell,voice,pref:+49 (0) 171 -  21 444 56
EMAIL;TYPE=INTERNET,work:f.vollm...@theriak-iss.com
ORG:Theriak iSS GmbH
REV:20140806T151044.309Z
UID:6d0a3c7d-a148-4260-87de-e2cef9de2351
END:VCARD

Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 13 September 2016 20:30:20 Brian wrote:
> > A final question:  I've used Wiktionary to learn that 'whinging' is the
> > English for what we Murricans call 'whining'.  Is it used a lot nowadays?
> >  I don't recall ever having heard it when I taught at Royal Holloway
> > College back in 1967-68.
>
> Language changes. One hopes modes of thinking on -user will adapt too.

I had to check whether there were any (other) men at Royal Holloway (a women's 
college) in 1967   (There were - just.)

Lisi

Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved

[David Wright]

On Mon 12 Sep 2016 at 14:14:53 (-0400), Alan McConnell wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: "Felix Miata" 
> Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 10:14:26 PM
> Subject: Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved
> 
> David Wright composed on 2016-09-11 21:44 (UTC-0500):
> ...
> >> Subject: Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved
> ...
> How is it beneficial to list anyone here or searching list archives to 
> continue a thread by chastising an OP for being imperfect more than 12 hours 
> after OP added string "solved" to the subject and thanked people who provided 
> useful help?
> Hurrah for Felix!  He got it.

Glad you found it funny.
> 
> Now I have a follow-on question:  I'd like to be able, from Jessie, to copy 
> files to and from my
> Windoze system.  I haven't really tried simply cd-ing to e.g. /dev/sda1, 
> which is the partition
> containing my Windoze stuff.  Is that what you dual OS users do?  is there 
> some subtle   mount
> command  that you use?   I shall be most grateful for any instructions, or 
> even suggestions.

I put lines in /etc/fstab that look like:

UUID=8CA476AAA4769684 /media/olaf01 ntfsro,utf8
UUID=349A79B99A797866 /media/olaf02 ntfsro,utf8

where those UUIDs come from dire /dev/disk/by-uuid/* or
/run/udev/data/b* but bear in mind that I only transfer file in one
direction. I don't mess with NTFS disks: if I want to move files,
I transfer them via a VFAT stick in the USB socket.
That way, if and when they get screwed up, the blame lies
firmly with M$.

(The mount points follow my convention of the disk's nickname
plus two digits for the partition numbers.)

For anyone following this thread, do they recognise those UUIDs?
The reason I ask is that I have two XP systems both with those
numbers, but I have no idea if the university installs new PC
OSes by cloning disks, or whether the UUIDs carry information
like 30E002E0454647 now does. (Until today, google didn't find
them; tomorrow it might.)

Cheers,
David.

Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved

[Brian]

On Tue 13 Sep 2016 at 13:01:58 -0400, Alan McConnell wrote:

> You were asked for some information. You declined to provide it. As a
> route to solving a technical problem your response leaves a lot to be
> desired.
>  Did you read why I declined?  I repeat my reason for your benefit:

I imagine your question is rhetorical, so it has no real edge to it and
does not require me to give an impression of an affronted user. The
repetition is unnecessary as it simply confirms you went into "sod this
for a game of soldiers" mode and started digging a deeper hole for
yourself.

>  getting information from my only partially installed Jessie means
>  shutting down my Windoze OS(I'm writing this from my Windows OS),
>  turning on my Jessie, and writing a bunch of detailed information on
>  a piece of paper, shutting down Jessie and returning to Windoze and
>  transcribing what my paper said to an E-mail.  That process requires
>  a lot of error-prone steps, and you or someone else might have called
>  for an iteration, which would have driven me up the wall.
> 
> The output of interest is from os-prober. You know what it, unless you
> are so uninterested in seeking a solution you haven't even run it or are
> keeping what it says to yourself.
>  I ran os-prober.  I can't here reproduce what it gave me, but it
>  didn't reveal the OS that came with the just purchased machine.

Even saying that would have given us a hook to hang a response on. Not
giving a precis alongside your other output was a bad move because it
altered the focus. Verbatim output is always best but a summary is
better than nothing.

   Verbatim output   =10/10
   Verbatim output+whine =7/10 (Diverts responses away from output)
   Summary   =6/10 (There is some value in it)
   Summary+whine =3/10 (Diverts responses away from output)
   Whine only=0/10

>  Which leads me to my often-stated conclusion:  since the install
>  program stated "No other OS can be found on this machine", the
>  installer is broken.

Broken? Mmm. Windows 10 was released on 29th July 2015. The Jessie
installer was released on 25th April 2015; there are indeed updates to
it but only for important features like security.

"Ah", you will say, what about d-i's DivineTheFuture package? Well, it
failed abysmally, although some Debian developers made a fortune from
betting on the Grand National using its predictions. (Warning: Fantasy
module switched on full).

> You may be interested to know that the Debian Fairy has waved her magic
> wand and made your machine dual bootable. From os-prober's changelog on
> unstable:
>  Good grief, Brian.  What I have is Jessie.  But it is good to
>  know that attention is being paid to this issue, and the installer
>  for stretch may be an improvement.

You've completely missed the point. Try saying to yourself

  I wish my machine had a file like unstable's or testing's

and then figure out how it could have such a file. (The os-prober output
would tell you whether what you did worked). This is the central section
in this mail. If you reply to anything you should reply to this.

> > Finally:  I have taken a resolution not to respond to further chastisement 
> > or smarm.
> > Please help me to keep it!
> 
> I don't do smarm. If you perceived what I wrote to be that, it reveals a
> weakness in my irony, sarcasm and mild insults modules.
>I did perceive it.  Advice: delete your ISMI module and pay
>  more attention to your courteous and helpful module.  Which I'm sure
>  exists.

It doesn't seem possible. Every time I make an attempt I hear a melody
and a voice singing "Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer."

> A final question:  I've used Wiktionary to learn that 'whinging' is the 
> English
> for what we Murricans call 'whining'.  Is it used a lot nowadays?  I don't 
> recall
> ever having heard it when I taught at Royal Holloway College back in 1967-68.

Language changes. One hopes modes of thinking on -user will adapt too.

-- 
Brian.

Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved

[David Wright]

On Sun 11 Sep 2016 at 23:14:26 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote:
> David Wright composed on 2016-09-11 21:44 (UTC-0500):
> ...
> >>Subject: Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved
> ...
> How is it beneficial to list anyone here or searching list archives
> to continue a thread by chastising an OP for being imperfect more
> than 12 hours after OP added string "solved" to the subject and
> thanked people who provided useful help?

What does "12 hours" have to do with the price of fish?

Ironic to say that about a post that itself contains:
 "Re your last post quoted above, what's the problem with running jessie
  and reporting the information you were asked for? I assume that you
  installed jessie so that you could run it occasionally.
  I know some people on this list treat it like the telephone ("I'm
  going to bed now, and will try it in the morning" kind of thing) but
  the list will wait for the next occasion that you boot up your jessie.
  ^^
  In fact, it often pays *not* to give quick responses because it gives
  you time to think on the problem, and you *are* the best-placed
  person to come up with a solution (as you have done, in a way)."

The reasons I posted:

AMcC drew attention to the title of his post: "How to get Jessie to
run at boot time -- Problem solved" where it's not clear that the
problem being solved is what's in the title, nor that the "solution"
is anything more that a workaround that does something for him.

His annoyance at being asked to provide more information so that
people trying to help can have a decent crack of the whip.

His implication that people should only ask those questions if
they move in the company of experts in Debian or grub.

So that summary I wrote was to explain why I was still mystified as to
the nature of his problem and its "solution", and how the "L or M"
business might help with matters. Knowing what is on the screen when
he presses F12 might help; there again, it might not. On this Dell,
F12 gives you a chance to boot from HardDrive/CD/USB without having
to enter the CMOS and change the default priorities. It has no
choice of which sector is read on the device selected. Perhaps
Dells have changed. Maybe BIOS/UEFI has something to do without it.

So I wrote:

"I don't know what you see when you press F12, and I don't understand
what the "L or M" business is in times past."
which invites a reply without being a direct question (something AMcC
seems to take exception to, unless coming from "experts"; not me then).

I notice that AMcC has now written that his procedure is cumbersome
(though I still don't know what it is). In the next sentence, he
continues to blame the installer, and hopes it gets fixed.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Errors when doing a update

[Jochen Spieker]

Brian LaPlante:
>
> Please find attached a copy of my sources.list and results of doing an 
> update. Any corrections that need to be made would be greatly appreciated. 
> Thanks in advance!

If you want to solve your problem by editing your sources.list, you need
to remove deb-multimedia.org from it. If you also accept other
solutions, you could simply import the appropriate key into the apt-key
database.

J.
-- 
When standing at the top of beachy head I find the rocks below very
attractive.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
 


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Gnome 3.21: how to define compose key?

[Doug]

On 09/13/2016 01:07 AM, david...@freevolt.org wrote:

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, Doug wrote:


On 09/11/2016 11:47 PM, david...@freevolt.org wrote:

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, david...@freevolt.org wrote:


And if I wanted that behavior all the time, I would edit the file
/etc/default/keyboard, adding compose:rwin to the comma-separated list
of pairs in XKBOPTIONS.


Of course, editing that file will change the default system-wide, for
everybody. Even, erm, Mark! (...if running Ubuntu.)

Maybe that is not what you want.


It looks like your code sets up the right Win key to be Compose, I 
don't know why it would bother anyone using the machine. It wouldn't 
stay that way
if you rebooted into Windows, and the key does nothing at all (that I 
know of) in Linux.


I see your point. That particular change is not going to surprise
anyone. It won't turn an expected character key into an unexpected
dead key, and then keep some other user from entering their password,
quotation marks, etc.

In other words, no fun at all.


As it happens, I have an old IBM model M keyboard with no
Windows keys, so I use the right alt key. Also, PCLOS has an option 
in the keyboard setup to choose a Compose key. Are you sure that 
Debian doesn't

have that capability built in, somewhere?


No, I am certainly not certain about that. And I imagine there are
desktop-environment-specific ways of configuring keyboard default
preferences like this, and doing so per-user. It will be interesting
to see if someone who uses the OP's DE suggests one.

In the meantime there is also this:

 # dpkg-reconfigure keyboard-configuation

It asks many questions. One of the questions it eventually asks is
about your compose key--whether you want one, which key you want it to
be, etc.

It edits /etc/default/keyboard to conform to your answers. So the same
caveat about "system-wide changes, hope everyone will be equally
thrilled" applies. A backup of the file you started with, before you
made changes, could be convenient to have.

(I happen to be a big fan of Compose, because even if you don't write 
a European language,


Aha, a Brexit joke. Good one.


it does other useful things—like that m-dash I just wrote.


Mastery of sarcasm: Check.


And ½, ⅓, ⅜, ©, 75°, µF, 17¢, and others.)


I see recognisable glyphs for five out of seven of those. My
environment does not support the other two.

So I know what they are not, but I don't know what they are. Very
mysterious. Could be IPA symbols. Could be a happy face next to a
clover/club symbol. I may never know.

Don't know what you are not seeing. Here's what I wrote—and what I do see—

one-half, one-third,  three-eighths, copyright symbol, degree sign after 
75, Greek letter mu meaning micro before F (for Farads), cent sign after17.


--doug

Re: Debian Jessie : regular console instead of a hi-res one!

[David Wright]

On Thu 08 Sep 2016 at 12:53:49 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote:
> David Wright composed on 2016-09-08 09:08 (UTC-0500):
> 
> >On Thu 08 Sep 2016 at 04:36:42 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote:
> 
> >>Nicolas George composed on 2016-09-08 10:07 (UTC+0200):
> 
> >>>Felix Miata composed:
> 
> The simplest way is to direct KMS's framebuffer to use a lower resolution
> than the native hi-res one by including a video= parameter on the kernel
> cmdline. The lower the resolution, the larger the standard (usually 16x9)
> framebuffer font becomes. On a 1920x1200 display I typically use
> video=1440x900@60; on a 1920x1080, 1280x720@60; depending on size of 
> display
> and actual resolutions it supports. Using video=1920x1080 on a 2560x1440
> display should produce a font 177% of the physical size of the one used
> natively.
> 
> >>>It may be ONE OF THE simplest ways, but it a very bad one: screen have a
> >>>native resolution, operating at a different one requires scaling: the
> >>>resulting text will be much less readable than with the better solution of
> >>>using a larger font.
> 
> >>Have you ever tried it? Default framebuffer fonts are quite
> >>adaptable to different resolutions, as they are generally produced
> >>with many more pix than typical GUI fonts. All that extra size
> >>enhances readability, compensating rather nicely for the loss in
> >>apparent resolution.
> 
> >You can play with framebuffers and kernel drivers all you like.
> >What you cannot do is alter the layout of pixels on the screen.
> 
> Absolutely true.
> 
> >If you don't use a resolution that matches those pixels exactly,
> >nothing you do can compensate.
> 
> False. The difference from one resolution to the next is easily lost
> if the screen resolution is beyond the resolving power of the eyes.
> 
> >You are deluding yourself if you think you can.
> 
> Been doing it for years. One factor is called natural optical
> deterioration. There's a limit to resolving power that typically
> gets worse with age. It's a primary reason why complaints are ever
> made about tiny fonts accompanying increased pixel density.

The main reason people complain about tiny fonts is because they're
often difficult to change, or changing them leads to undesirable
effects, like web pages that don't re-wrap lines to take account
of the change.

But with an armoury of font sizes, six in my case from tiny to vast,
there's no difficulty changing at all, as long as one is prepared
to visit the bash prompt (or use a shell-escape).

It's easy to be misled by just considering the means to resolve two
dots of lines from each other as the only function of display
resolution. The crispness of a font depends on the angles of edges
to which the eye is very sensitive, even when it can't resolve the
actual dots themselves that make up that edge.

> Another factor has to do with screen size and distance, not
> necessarily caused by deterioration, but because of eyes never that
> good to begin with, and corrective lenses that do a better job at
> particular focal lengths. Too close and pixels can become apparent
> and bothersome. More distance can work better.

If the pixels are as large as to be bothersome, then make them
smaller, ie use a higher resolution on the screen! Why would you
ever use a lower resolution in that case?

> IOW:
> 
> 1-Don't knock it if you haven't tried it. By this I don't mean tried
> only on Debian installations either. The default framebuffer font of
> Debian and its derivatives is very commonly different from
> non-Debian distros, represented by the spindly ugly thing used by
> Ubuntu. Without Plymouth, one can typically see the initial font
> during post is much bolder, changing somewhere along the way to the
> desktop or login prompt to a much lighter stroked variety. If all
> you've ever seen is the lightweight, try a (Debian) Knoppix CD or
> DVD and you'll see what Fedora and openSUSE users see by default
> (TerminusBold?) on their framebuffers, a font that's nicely bold and
> forgiving of non-optimal screen resolution.

Well, I'm up for that. Tell me what I have to do: it's quite involved.
I can blacklist my i915 module; should I replace it in /etc/modules
with, say, the i810fb module. Or should I just add
video=intelfb:mode=640x480@60,accel,hwcursor,vram=8
to grub's boot line?

When I want to change resolution, which keys should I press to do that?

And last, but not least, I need a surefire method of determining what
resolution I have succeeded in running. With native resolution, that's
very simple. I put some text on the screen such that the bottom line
and rightmost character are both used, determine the pixels used in
the character grid, multiply each with $LINES and $COLUMNS, and then
add the unused pixels at the bottom and right edges. All done with
a handlens.

> 2-Don't expect just because you decide it's not for you that it
> can't be for anyone else.

I've made no such decision. I'm just trying to understand you

Re: icedove: failed to connect server x...@gmail.com

[Richard Owlett]

On 9/9/2016 10:02 AM, mudongliang wrote:

Dear all,

 recently I suddenly failed to update my gmail account in
icedove. When I tried to get messages from gmail account in
icedove, it poped up one window : "Failled to connect server
x...@gmail.com". There is no error for my other email, for
example, hotmail, outlook.

 How could I solve this problem?



Reposting Neal's reply to remedy broken thread.

On 9/12/2016 6:03 PM, Neal P. Murphy wrote:

On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 23:38:56 +0100
Lisi Reisz  wrote:


PS I have been trying to help mudongliang, unsuccessfully. But thereby hangs
another thread. Please someone else, his question has still not been
answered. Are all attempts to answer it being spam-checked out of
existence??



[I trust this will appear in the desired thread; I changed the subject back]

A few things I can think of (which generally reflect your suggestions):
- username changed in settings or at gmail
- password changed in settings or at gmail
- port changed in settings or at gmail (between encrypted and non-encrypted, 
for example)
- DNS problems
- SSL versus startTLS
- change between IMAP and POP3
- firewall blockage (but not *too* likely, since other servers can be accessed)
- encryption schemes that are no longer valid (like SSL2 or SSL3 but, again, 
not *too* likely*)

N


P.S. Related to another thread (about email programs), another shortcoming of 
Claws Mail is that there's no way to see/edit *all* a reply's headers; 
otherwise, I would've adjusted this message's Message-id header to match that 
of the O.P.'s message and make this reply appear in the right place in the 
thread. I don't have the original message to reply to.

Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 13 September 2016 08:57:19 Alan McConnell wrote:

> Warning:  This E-mail is for the most part in the nature of a pushback
> against various insinuations that have been made.
>
Now I am going to push back Alan.

If you are going to come in here and berate folks about this and that, 
the first thing you need to do is to train your email agent

(wth is "X-Mailer: Zimbra 7.2.6_GA_2926 (ZimbraWebClient - GC46 
(Win)/7.2.6_GA_2926)" never heard of it)

to properly quote, and honor existing quotes, if for no other reason than 
to help us identify who wrote what.  That is what all those leading > 
and >> > are all about. It is also part of the email protocol that has 
existed since the late 80's of the last century.

> - Original Message -
Which I scrubbed because there are NO quotes in it other than what my 
email agent added.  Why they were totally removed I've no clue, but it 
marks your email agent as being seriously mis-configured, or was written 
by an idiot.

Please fix it to obey 30 year old email quoting standards.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 13 September 2016 18:01:58 Alan McConnell wrote:
> > Finally:  I have taken a resolution not to respond to further
> > chastisement or smarm. Please help me to keep it!

What a pity you didn't!  What happened to your self control??

Lisi

Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved

[Alan McConnell]

- Original Message -
From: "Brian" 
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 9:40:11 AM
Subject: Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved

On Tue 13 Sep 2016 at 08:57:19 -0400, Alan McConnell wrote:

> Warning:  This E-mail is for the most part in the nature of a pushback against
> various insinuations that have been made.  

Warning duly noted; most of this mail is snipped so we can concentrate
on the technical aspects of your issue.
 Excellent.


You were asked for some information. You declined to provide it. As a
route to solving a technical problem your response leaves a lot to be
desired.
 Did you read why I declined?  I repeat my reason for your benefit:
 getting information from my only partially installed Jessie means
 shutting down my Windoze OS(I'm writing this from my Windows OS),
 turning on my Jessie, and writing a bunch of detailed information on
 a piece of paper, shutting down Jessie and returning to Windoze and
 transcribing what my paper said to an E-mail.  That process requires
 a lot of error-prone steps, and you or someone else might have called
 for an iteration, which would have driven me up the wall.

The output of interest is from os-prober. You know what it, unless you
are so uninterested in seeking a solution you haven't even run it or are
keeping what it says to yourself.
 I ran os-prober.  I can't here reproduce what it gave me, but it
 didn't reveal the OS that came with the just purchased machine.
 Which leads me to my often-stated conclusion:  since the install
 program stated "No other OS can be found on this machine", the
 installer is broken.

You may be interested to know that the Debian Fairy has waved her magic
wand and made your machine dual bootable. From os-prober's changelog on
unstable:
 Good grief, Brian.  What I have is Jessie.  But it is good to
 know that attention is being paid to this issue, and the installer
 for stretch may be an improvement.

> Finally:  I have taken a resolution not to respond to further chastisement or 
> smarm.
> Please help me to keep it!

I don't do smarm. If you perceived what I wrote to be that, it reveals a
weakness in my irony, sarcasm and mild insults modules.
   I did perceive it.  Advice: delete your ISMI module and pay
 more attention to your courteous and helpful module.  Which I'm sure
 exists.

A final question:  I've used Wiktionary to learn that 'whinging' is the English
for what we Murricans call 'whining'.  Is it used a lot nowadays?  I don't 
recall
ever having heard it when I taught at Royal Holloway College back in 1967-68.

Alan

Solicitud de Información

[Gerencia Comercial]

Estimados Srs.



Quisieramos entrar en contacto con la persona encarga de compras de
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nuestros servicios, por lo que agradecemos cualquier información que nos pueda 
facilitar de contacto de la misma.

Puede ver nuestra nueva presentación comercial [1] DESCARGAR

Reciban un cordial saludo, quedo a la espera de sus comentarios,
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Re: Network issue........

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Charlie  writes:

> Hello Debian Users,
>
> I have a network issue that I find perplexing:
>
> When I do: # netstat -r -n
>
> or 
>
> # route
>
> Kernel IP routing table
> Destination Gateway  Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt Iface
> 0.0.0.0   10.80.2.85  0.0.0.0 UG 00  0 eth0
> 10.80.2.84  0.0.0.0  255.255.255.252 U  00  0 eth0
>
> But when I check it through my windows box it comes up as it should,
> according to my ISP, with the gateway being 10.80.2.86
>
> What is happening? Is it allowed to be that slack, one or the other?

Do you know whether your gateway is doing any sort of network address
translation?  It seems odd to me that you're getting an address range
that matches the external address of your modem, and that your external
address is a 10.x.x.x (since those are all non-routable private IPs).
I'd expect either the former if no translation is being done, or the
latter if your external address weren't private.  But seeing both at the
same time surprises me.

On my home system, for instance, my comcast cable modem is at 10.1.10.1
internally, but 173.163.240.62 externally.

I have seen DHCP assign different addresses to Windows than to Linux,
but in your case the gateway box should be grabbing its address for
itself, and giving your computer the other available address.

Re: mount MTP phone

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 05 September 2016 03:38:39 Anthony Baldwin wrote:
> I don't know what kind any of these USB ports are

Have a look at the port and/or the plug.  White or black=USB2 and blue=USB3.  
(We can safely ignore USB1).  I have even come across USB2 not working in a 
USB3 port, even though it should in theory.

Lisi

Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved

[Brian]

On Tue 13 Sep 2016 at 08:57:19 -0400, Alan McConnell wrote:

> Warning:  This E-mail is for the most part in the nature of a pushback against
> various insinuations that have been made.  

Warning duly noted; most of this mail is snipped so we can concentrate
on the technical aspects of your issue.

[...Snippety-snip...]

> Again, for the third time:  I hope that an new release of the Debian 
> installation SW
> will be able to detect when another OS is already on the system, and that a 
> proper and
> simple procedure will be put in place for e.g. newbies to Linux or to 
> dual-bootable
> systems to be able to choose between the systems immediately after the 
> machine self-test.

You were asked for some information. You declined to provide it. As a
route to solving a technical problem your response leaves a lot to be
desired.

The output of interest is from os-prober. You know what it, unless you
are so uninterested in seeking a solution you haven't even run it or are
keeping what it says to yourself.

If you had clue and had provided a decent, useful response you would
then have been directed to read /usr/lib/os-probes/mounted/20microsoft.
The light would then have dawned (perhaps). All the time you would be
learning and helping yourself. But no - whinging wins out. Far easier
for you to that than think for yourself.

You may be interested to know that the Debian Fairy has waved her magic
wand and made your machine dual bootable. From os-prober's changelog on
unstable:

  * Add support for Windows 10 (otherwise reported as Windows Recovery
Environment). Thanks, Philipp Wolfer! (Closes: #801278).

 -- Cyril Brulebois   Thu, 08 Oct 2015 14:26:16 +0200

With this information your every desire can be realised. Your problem
now has a proper solution. Surely what you can do to have a dual boot
doesn't need spelling out?

> Finally:  I have taken a resolution not to respond to further chastisement or 
> smarm.
> Please help me to keep it!

I don't do smarm. If you perceived what I wrote to be that, it reveals a
weakness in my irony, sarcasm and mild insults modules.

-- 
Brian.

Errors when doing a update

[Brian LaPlante]

Please find attached a copy of my sources.list and results of doing an update. 
Any corrections that need to be made would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in 
advance!


Best wishes,

Brian


Update Error
Description: Update Error

Re: Bluetooth: impossible to send files from phone to computer

[Frédéric Mesplède]

I do not know how I am supposed to connect the phone to my computer...
When I use gnome tool [ http://i66.tinypic.com/2912n89.png ] the
switch instantly comes back to off position and I cannot turn it on...

Re: Bluetooth: impossible to send files from phone to computer

[Liam O'Toole]

On 2016-09-13, Frédéric Mesplède  wrote:
> Hello everyone!
>
> I am having trouble connecting my phone to my computer via bluetooth.
> I use Debian 8.5 gnome and my phone is a motorola G2. I use both gnome
> default bluetooth tool and blueman but none of them work. Pairing
> works fine with blueman until I try to connect my phone to my computer
> or try to send files from my phone. When I try to connect to the phone
> through blueman it says that "no such file or directory exists"
> whereas the bluetooth on the phone is activated and was already paired
> before... On the other hand, I can send files from the computer to the
> phone via bluetooth. In the "Sharing" settings in gnome settings panel
> I activated the option sharing via bluetooth and paired devices but it
> does not work...
>
> What should I do?
>
> Thank you for your help!

I find the various GUI bluetooth tools in jessie to be quite buggy. When
you have established a connection between the phone and your computer,
open a terminal and cd to /run/user/$(id -u)/gvfs/. From there you
should be able to see the mount point of the device and move or copy
files as required.

-- 

Liam

Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved

[Alan McConnell]

Warning:  This E-mail is for the most part in the nature of a pushback against
various insinuations that have been made.  

- Original Message -
From: "Lisi Reisz" 
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 5:38:56 PM
Subject: Re: How to get Jessie to run at boot time -- Problem solved

On Monday 12 September 2016 19:14:53 Alan McConnell wrote:
> Maybe I should apologize for "hijacking a thread"?

Yes, you should.  It has left the person whose thread you have hijacked high 
and dry.  It is most definitely "not done" to hijack threads.  By those who 
care about etiquette and other people, that is.
  You have got to be kidding!  I have stolen(the meaning of "hijacking")
  nothing.  Nothing prevents you or anyone else from ignoring what I write 
or
  have written and concentrating on the other messages in this thread.

  You talk about etiquette.  I have, over the past twenty years, set up
  at least three E-lists; one about Linux(lwob), one about music(vlaviworld)
  and the third about politics(waifllc, using Meetup).  I never prescribed
  any form of behavior for my members, and I'm surprised that you take it on
  yourself to do so for debian-users.

  Besides: since I added "Problem solved" to the Subject line, I am now 
posting
  under a different thread.  However, you or anyone else are free to use it 
for
  further lessons in etiquette, or anything else you choose.
  

Brian was offering you a good technical solution that would actually have 
solved your problem, instead of a "cobble", which you say that Debian should 
fix.
   He was doing no such thing.  He asked a bunch of questions like "What 
was the
   version of Windoze I was using?" ! ? ! He offered no solution at all 
that improved
   on what I use.  I'll get to Brian more in a moment.

Even God is said only to help those who help themselves.
   I _have_ helped myself!  And I am fortunate that I have been able to 
draw the
   attention of a real expert, Felix Miata, who combines his expertize with 
an
   ability to read, and a reluctance to preach.  Would that you and Brian 
would
   emulate him.

On to Brian!  You, Brian, ask: was anyone impolite?  I was accused of being 
impolite and
I reject the accusation.  I will, however, remark that your series of 
"deconstructions"
verge on the smarmy.  Do you claim that they were useful, or even relevant?

And what am I, or anyone, to think of your assertions about "Debian Central" or 
"Abarrane"?
Is it your claim that such comments are useful, or relevant, or even polite?

Again, for the third time:  I hope that an new release of the Debian 
installation SW
will be able to detect when another OS is already on the system, and that a 
proper and
simple procedure will be put in place for e.g. newbies to Linux or to 
dual-bootable
systems to be able to choose between the systems immediately after the machine 
self-test.

Finally:  I have taken a resolution not to respond to further chastisement or 
smarm.
Please help me to keep it!

Best wishes, even to Lisi and Brian!

Alan

Uprgrade your mailbox quota

[Seleny Investments]

 

Date:  13 September 2016

Warmest Regards

 

Selma Pineas 

 

Seleny Investments cc 
Clearing & Forwarding 

Shop no. 2, Town Centre Building

Sam Nujoma Avenue, Walvis Bay, Namibia
P O Box 987, Walvis Bay, Namibia 
Cell :   +264 81 2474907
E-mail:   sel...@iway.na

Fax2mail: +264 886 509 278

 

Re: Network issue........

[Charlie]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 09:54:08 +0100 Darac Marjal sent:

> On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 04:26:55PM +1000, Charlie wrote:
> >
> >Hello Debian Users,
> >
> >I have a network issue that I find perplexing:
> >
> >When I do: # netstat -r -n
> >
> >or
> >
> ># route
> >
> >Kernel IP routing table
> >Destination Gateway  Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt Iface
> >0.0.0.0   10.80.2.85  0.0.0.0 UG 00  0 eth0
> >10.80.2.84  0.0.0.0  255.255.255.252 U  00  0 eth0  
> 
> This translates as "For 10.80.2.84 to 10.80.2.87, talk directly to
> the host, otherwise gateway through 10.80.2.85".
> 
> You don't mention how this route has been allocated, though. Are you 
> using DHCP and these routes are being offered to you by a router?
> Have you entered them manually in /etc/network/interfaces?

The gateway is a satellite modem that has been supplied by the national
satellite service.

The Debian Linux testing box declares it, as mentioned above, on the
command line with either of the two commands mentioned above also. 

The windows 10 box, says the IP address of the gateway is different to
the Debian system, which unfortunately I have been quoting, [as above]?
[cringing] Thinking it was right, and obviously not.

The windows 10 box, on the admin command line type: ipconfig/all 
Shows me the DNS, the ipv4 gateway as mentioned etc., etc..

The Linux system uses DHCP, is that a bad thing?

Windows 10 has DHCP enabled as well. Is that a bad thing? Has
autoconfiguration enabled also.

Anyway windows 10 has it right apparently, Debian does not.

So If I want to make a complaint in the future, will have to trouble
shoot it with the windows 10 system.

Obviously no explanation for the different numbers.

Ce la vie. Thanks for the input.

> >
> >But when I check it through my windows box it comes up as it should,
> >according to my ISP, with the gateway being 10.80.2.86  
> 
> Again, you don't detail how Windows has got this information.
> 
> At the moment, the problem could simply be that you mis-typed one or 
> other of the IP addresses when entering them.
> 
> >
> >What is happening? Is it allowed to be that slack, one or the other?



After contemplation, my reply is:

-- 
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***

Getting bored is not allowed. -Eloise

***

Debian GNU/Linux - Magic indeed.

-

Re: Network issue........

[Erwan David]

On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 01:20:30PM CEST, Darac Marjal 
 said:
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 07:07:51AM -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> >On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 04:54:08 AM Darac Marjal wrote:
> >>On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 04:26:55PM +1000, Charlie wrote:
> >>>Kernel IP routing table
> >>>Destination Gateway  Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt Iface
> >>>0.0.0.0   10.80.2.85  0.0.0.0 UG 00  0 eth0
> >>>10.80.2.84  0.0.0.0  255.255.255.252 U  00  0 eth0
> >>
> >>This translates as "For 10.80.2.84 to 10.80.2.87, talk directly to the
> >>host, otherwise gateway through 10.80.2.85".
> >
> >I'm not the OP, but maybe I can learn something.
> >
> >I can sort of see where you got the 10.80.2.84--oh, and I was going to say
> >that I don't see where the 10.80.2.87 came from, but, without doing the math,
> >maybe that comes from the 255.255.255.252 netmask?
> 
> Yes. I actually plugged the numbers into http://www.subnet-calculator.com/
> as I'm lazy, but 255.255.255.252 is also written as /2 and it defines a
> subnet where everything but the last 2 bits of the address are the same.
> We're lucky that, in this instance 10.80.2.84 is on the lower boundary of
> this range (Actually, the routing table might enforce that), so the next 4
> (inclusive) hosts make up the range .84 (which would usually be the
> 'network' address), .85 and .86 (which are both 'usable' hosts) and .87
> (which would be the 'broadcast' address).

That's /30 (30 fixed bits) not /2

Re: Network issue........

[Darac Marjal]

On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 07:07:51AM -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 04:54:08 AM Darac Marjal wrote:

On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 04:26:55PM +1000, Charlie wrote:
>Kernel IP routing table
>Destination Gateway  Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt Iface
>0.0.0.0   10.80.2.85  0.0.0.0 UG 00  0 eth0
>10.80.2.84  0.0.0.0  255.255.255.252 U  00  0 eth0

This translates as "For 10.80.2.84 to 10.80.2.87, talk directly to the
host, otherwise gateway through 10.80.2.85".


I'm not the OP, but maybe I can learn something.

I can sort of see where you got the 10.80.2.84--oh, and I was going to say
that I don't see where the 10.80.2.87 came from, but, without doing the math,
maybe that comes from the 255.255.255.252 netmask?


Yes. I actually plugged the numbers into 
http://www.subnet-calculator.com/ as I'm lazy, but 255.255.255.252 is 
also written as /2 and it defines a subnet where everything but the last 
2 bits of the address are the same. We're lucky that, in this instance 
10.80.2.84 is on the lower boundary of this range (Actually, the routing 
table might enforce that), so the next 4 (inclusive) hosts make up the 
range .84 (which would usually be the 'network' address), .85 and .86 
(which are both 'usable' hosts) and .87 (which would be the 'broadcast' 
address).







--
For more information, please reread.


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Re: Network issue........

[rhkramer]

On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 04:54:08 AM Darac Marjal wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 04:26:55PM +1000, Charlie wrote:
> >Kernel IP routing table
> >Destination Gateway  Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt Iface
> >0.0.0.0   10.80.2.85  0.0.0.0 UG 00  0 eth0
> >10.80.2.84  0.0.0.0  255.255.255.252 U  00  0 eth0
> 
> This translates as "For 10.80.2.84 to 10.80.2.87, talk directly to the
> host, otherwise gateway through 10.80.2.85".

I'm not the OP, but maybe I can learn something.  

I can sort of see where you got the 10.80.2.84--oh, and I was going to say 
that I don't see where the 10.80.2.87 came from, but, without doing the math, 
maybe that comes from the 255.255.255.252 netmask?

Re: Network issue........

[Fabrizio Carrai]

I suppose you are using DHCP: the gw is assigned by the service.

Il 13 set 2016 08:27, "Charlie"  ha scritto:

>
> Hello Debian Users,
>
> I have a network issue that I find perplexing:
>
> When I do: # netstat -r -n
>
> or
>
> # route
>
> Kernel IP routing table
> Destination Gateway  Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt Iface
> 0.0.0.0   10.80.2.85  0.0.0.0 UG 00  0 eth0
> 10.80.2.84  0.0.0.0  255.255.255.252 U  00  0 eth0
>
> But when I check it through my windows box it comes up as it should,
> according to my ISP, with the gateway being 10.80.2.86
>
> What is happening? Is it allowed to be that slack, one or the other?
>
> TIA
> Charlie
> --
> Registered Linux User:- 329524
> ***
>
> Appreciation is a wonderful thing: It makes what is excellent
> in others belong to us as well. -Voltaire
>
> ***
>
> Debian GNU/Linux - Magic indeed.
>
> -
>
>

Bluetooth: impossible to send files from phone to computer

[Frédéric Mesplède]

Hello everyone!

I am having trouble connecting my phone to my computer via bluetooth.
I use Debian 8.5 gnome and my phone is a motorola G2. I use both gnome
default bluetooth tool and blueman but none of them work. Pairing
works fine with blueman until I try to connect my phone to my computer
or try to send files from my phone. When I try to connect to the phone
through blueman it says that "no such file or directory exists"
whereas the bluetooth on the phone is activated and was already paired
before... On the other hand, I can send files from the computer to the
phone via bluetooth. In the "Sharing" settings in gnome settings panel
I activated the option sharing via bluetooth and paired devices but it
does not work...

What should I do?

Thank you for your help!

Re: exim4 some config error causing error how to pinpoint

[Liam O'Toole]

On 2016-09-13, Harry Putnam  wrote:
> I've attempted to setup exim4 on a second debian OS, using the
> working configuration from the older one.
>
> Before getting too detailed I think I see something in output of my
> debug technique that indicated somewhere my host is telling exim the
> wrong host name.
>
> (dv is host with working config )
>
> I use this technique; sending a mail like this:
> mailx -v -s "TEST 160912_211756 dv" rea...@newsguy.com < ~/txtmsg.txt
>
> I run that command then watch the smtp output from the little
> test script named `tmail'.
>
> On the working host the first bit of output:
>
>  $ tmail rea...@newsguy.com
> sending like this:
> mailx -v -s "TEST 160912_211756 dv" rea...@newsguy.com < ~/txtmsg.txt
> LOG: MAIN
>  <= harry@dv U=harry P=local S=546
>
> [...]
>
> Now the second, non-working host:
>
>  tmail rea...@newsguy.com
> sending like this: (Non-working host is `d2')
> mailx -v -s "TEST 160912_211617 d2" rea...@newsguy.com < ~/txtmsg.txt
>
> LOG: MAIN  
>  <= ha...@d2local.lan U=harry P=local S=440
>  ^
> Notice the above difference .. in the working host it shows
>   harry@dv (hostname is dv.local.lan)
>   In the non-working host:
>   ha...@d2local.lan (hostname is d2.local.lan)
>
> Somewhere in my setup exim4 is finding the hostname without the
> separating dot in d2.local.lan   and is using d2local.lan
>
> Which may be causing the failure:  Following the smtp otuput:
>
> ---   ---   ---=---   ---   ---
>
>  delivering 1bjcKi-0001Ey-9B
> R: nonlocal for rea...@newsguy.com
> LOG: MAIN
>   ** rea...@newsguy.com R=nonlocal: Mailing to remote domains not supported
> LOG: MAIN
>  <= <> R=1bjcKi-0001Ey-9B U=Debian-exim P=local S=1650
> LOG: MAIN
>   Completed
> delivering 1bjcKi-0001F0-Fy
> R: nonlocal for ha...@d2local.lan
> LOG: MAIN
>   ** ha...@d2local.lan R=nonlocal: Mailing to remote domains not supported
> LOG: MAIN
>   Frozen (delivery error message)
>
> --- --- ---=--- --- ---
>
> Or am I making too much of the missing dot and it really is that I've
> missed an important setting that lets exim4 deliver to outside of lan?
>

Run 'dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config' as root on the second host to repair
the hostname. See §8.5.3. of the documentation[1] for details.

You can also inspect the working settings on the first machine using
'debconf-show exim4-config'.

1: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch08s05.html.en


-- 

Liam

Re: Gnome 3.21: how to define compose key?

[tomas]

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On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 12:04:53PM +0200, Siard wrote:
> to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > I haven't yet seen a complete table (nor have I yet bothered to find out
> > how one configures that in X -- some day I'll do).
> 
> Well, there is a complete listing in /usr/share/X11/locale//Compose.
> You can add or edit your own combinations there.

Hey, thanks -- you just killed my last excuse :-)

regards
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Re: How to change size of system font(s)?

[Felix Miata]

Richard Owlett composed on 2016-09-12 07:52 (UTC-0500):


The default font in Squeeze(Gnome2) and Jessie(Mate) is too small!
Gedit and Pluma allow changing from default size of "10"[units
not specified]. I find setting to 14 or larger much more legible
on my laptop.


Note that DEs, document creation and editing apps (e.g. LibreOffice), and 
sizes for printing are almost without exception sized in units called points, 
appreviated as pt. In printing, pt units are an unambiguous physical size. On 
computer screens in most contexts they are a logical size. The primary 
context where the size of a pt is most ambiguous is WRT text within a modern 
web browser viewport, where a pt equates to a px unit, a size measured in 
degrees rather than height and width.


When Xorg is configured so that its logical pixel density matches the 
screen's physical pixel density, then the pt unit becomes a physical size 
that matches the size printed.


Configuring Xorg to a particular density involves use of xrandr in a startup 
script, or DisplaySize within /etc/X11/xorg.con*. For Gnome/GTK apps to obey 
a particular DPI may require employing the Xft.dpi ENVAR.

--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

Re: Gnome 3.21: how to define compose key?

[Siard]

to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> I haven't yet seen a complete table (nor have I yet bothered to find out
> how one configures that in X -- some day I'll do).

Well, there is a complete listing in /usr/share/X11/locale//Compose.
You can add or edit your own combinations there.

I should add that my  en_GB.UTF-8 does not exist here [stretch],
but en_US.UTF-8 appears to be taking its place.

side-track of thread to the subject of mailservers was: Re: icedove: failed to connect server x...@gmail.com

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 13 September 2016 08:56:47 Lisi Reisz wrote:
> I am still trying to figure out why my original reply got so thoroughly
> blocked by, I think, Debian's spam filters.  So here is the original reply,
> with the acronyms replaced by wikipedia links.  (For coherent reading,
> replace the wikipedia links with teh relevant acronyms)
>
> On Friday 09 September 2016 16:02:42 mudongliang wrote:
> > Dear all,
> >
> >  recently I suddenly failed to update my gmail account in
> > icedove. When I tried to get messages from gmail account in icedove, it
> > poped up one window : "Failled to connect server x...@gmail.com". There
> > is no error for my other email, for example, hotmail, outlook.
> >
> >  How could I solve this problem?
>
> Look at the
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Mail_Transfer_Protocol
>  or
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Message_Access_Protocol
>  server settings.  It looks as though something has
> gone wrong with the gmail settings.  It would help if you were to say which
> gmail server you are having problems with, and what settings you are using.
>
> Lisi

So Debian's spamcheckers were failing, consistently, over a period of time, 
the acronyms for two types of mail "sending" servers.  That strikes me as 
seriously weird.  (I daren't name the servers!!)

Lisi

Re: Network issue........

[Darac Marjal]

On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 04:26:55PM +1000, Charlie wrote:


Hello Debian Users,

I have a network issue that I find perplexing:

When I do: # netstat -r -n

or

# route

Kernel IP routing table
Destination Gateway  Genmask Flags MSS Window irtt Iface
0.0.0.0   10.80.2.85  0.0.0.0 UG 00  0 eth0
10.80.2.84  0.0.0.0  255.255.255.252 U  00  0 eth0


This translates as "For 10.80.2.84 to 10.80.2.87, talk directly to the 
host, otherwise gateway through 10.80.2.85".


You don't mention how this route has been allocated, though. Are you 
using DHCP and these routes are being offered to you by a router? Have 
you entered them manually in /etc/network/interfaces?




But when I check it through my windows box it comes up as it should,
according to my ISP, with the gateway being 10.80.2.86


Again, you don't detail how Windows has got this information.

At the moment, the problem could simply be that you mis-typed one or 
other of the IP addresses when entering them.




What is happening? Is it allowed to be that slack, one or the other?

TIA
Charlie
--
Registered Linux User:- 329524
***

Appreciation is a wonderful thing: It makes what is excellent
in others belong to us as well. -Voltaire

***

Debian GNU/Linux - Magic indeed.

-



--
For more information, please reread.


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Re: icedove: failed to connect server x...@gmail.com

[Lisi Reisz]

I am still trying to figure out why my original reply got so thoroughly 
blocked by, I think, Debian's spam filters.  So here is the original reply, 
with the acronyms replaced by wikipedia links.  (For coherent reading, 
replace the wikipedia links with teh relevant acronyms)

On Friday 09 September 2016 16:02:42 mudongliang wrote:
> Dear all,
>
>  recently I suddenly failed to update my gmail account in
> icedove. When I tried to get messages from gmail account in icedove, it
> poped up one window : "Failled to connect server x...@gmail.com". There
> is no error for my other email, for example, hotmail, outlook.
>
>  How could I solve this problem?

Look at the 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Mail_Transfer_Protocol
 or 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Message_Access_Protocol
 server settings.  It looks as though something has 
gone wrong with the gmail settings.  It would help if you were to say which 
gmail server you are having problems with, and what settings you are using.

Lisi

Re: icedove: failed to connect server x...@gmail.com

[Lisi Reisz]

On Friday 09 September 2016 16:02:42 mudongliang wrote:
> Dear all,
>
>  recently I suddenly failed to update my gmail account in
> icedove. When I tried to get messages from gmail account in icedove, it
> poped up one window : "Failled to connect server x...@gmail.com". There
> is no error for my other email, for example, hotmail, outlook.
>
>  How could I solve this problem?

Have you seen this reply?
https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/20160912190300.2f74664d@playground

Lisi

Re: Gnome 3.21: how to define compose key?

[tomas]

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On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 05:07:28AM +, david...@freevolt.org wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Sep 2016, Doug wrote:

[...]

> >And ½, ⅓, ⅜, ©, 75°, µF, 17¢, and others.)
> 
> I see recognisable glyphs for five out of seven of those. My
> environment does not support the other two.

My personal favourite is still ♥ (and of course those omnipresent
☺ and ☹) I chose the (to me otherwise useless) caps lock as compose.
> 
> So I know what they are not, but I don't know what they are. Very
> mysterious. Could be IPA symbols. Could be a happy face next to a
> clover/club symbol. I may never know.

With compose, they tend to be somewhat mnemonic, so you can remember
them once you've seen them once. E.g. '<' + '3' => '♥' and
'.' + ')' => '☺'. You get the idea. I haven't yet seen a complete
table (nor have I yet bothered to find out how one configures that
in X -- some day I'll do).

Regards

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