Re: [offlist] Re: Using .XCompose

[davidson]

On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 Zenaan Harkness wrote:

On Wed, Jul 08, 2020 at 02:59:20AM +, Ajith R wrote:

Hi David,




As a rule, send replies to the listserv address:

    debian-user@lists.debian.org

2. In-Line replies, instead of Top-Posting
3. I apologise for being a Terrible Person


Hey!  I thought I had a patent, trademark _and_ copyright on self
deprecation ;)


Neuroticism wants to be free.

--
You won't feel the collar if you don't go anywhere.

Re: Suggestion for systemd and /usr on seperate partition

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 08 iul 20, 02:35:09, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
> On 8/7/20 2:11 am, Michael Stone wrote:
> > 
> > The short answer is that there simply isn't a good reason to do this 
> > on a modern system, and there is no volunteer to donate the enormous 
> > amount of effort required to make
> > something work for which there isn't a good justification for 
> > expending that effort. There should be no flamewar, if someone wants 
> > the situation to change they simply need to be
> > the person who puts in all the work.
> 
> Just doing dist-upgrade with a perfectly acceptable file system 
> previously is no reason why it should break.

Debian supports upgrading of most packages between releases.

It provides no guarantees about hardware, partitioning schemes, 
partition sizes, file systems, etc.

I was under the impression that LVM is used in particular for its 
flexibility in adjusting your partitions. What prevents you from merging 
'/' and '/usr'?

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: Can slrn decode MIME messages?

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Ma, 07 iul 20, 17:11:08, Borden Rhodes wrote:
> Not a direct answer to your question, but the etiquette on the lists
> is to use plain text only messages wrapped at 80 characters to

72 allows for several levels of quoting without re-wrapping ;)

> maximise compatibility with clients - I assume because the list
> forwards the messages using text-only headers.

I don't think the list software cares, only the recipients.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: systemd-nspawn networking inside VirtualBox VM

[Alexandre Rossi]

Hi,

> > since I am not well educated about macvlan, ipvlan, I could not get the
> > networking working at all. I would like to avoid using
> > "systemd-networkd/systemd-resolvd" especially on the Buster host - using 
> > those
> > it seems should make everything work automagically.
> 
> If you realy want to do the networking yourself, you will need to create
> the bridge based on the examples found in '/lib/systemd/network'.

I've had success declaring a bridge in /etc/network/interfaces:

iface br0 inet dhcp
bridge_ports eth0 # this is your VM Ethernet

and launching my containers with:

$ cat /etc/systemd/nspawn/container.nspawn
[Exec]
Boot=yes

[Network]
Bridge=br0
$ sudo machinectl start container

Alex

Re: How To Permanently Add-to a Users PATH Statement in the Bash Shell

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 08 iul 20, 10:44:39, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> 
>  - so try somewhere in the session startup apps - nope, courdn't 
>  figure it out at least

For Debian you want ~/.xsessionrc

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: How To Permanently Add-to a Users PATH Statement in the Bash Shell

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 08 iul 20, 09:59:52, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 10:29:47AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > 
> > $HOME/bin is placed into the user's default PATH by Debian's ~/.profile
> > (the one in /etc/skel/.profile) if it exists at the time the ~/.profile
> > is read, if the ~/.profile is read at all.
> > 
> > As I keep saying, of course, what dot files actually get read depends
> > on how one logs in.
> 
> That souds mildly disconcerting - when does `~/.profile` _not_ get read?

In addition to what others mentioned, when you start an X session via 
most (all?) display managers.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Ma, 07 iul 20, 16:28:16, Gary Dale wrote:
> 
> The package maintainers are who make packages stable, not the product
> developers.

Hmm...
 
> There is nothing to prevent a none-esr version of Firefox from making it
> into stable.

For the particular software named "Firefox" there is. It's Mozilla's 
trademark policy (remember Iceweasel?).

> The maintainers just need to install the bug fix patches
> created to fix the bugs in that particular version. This is exactly what
> they do when significant bugs are found in the stable version of any package
> (in fact, a significant security bug was patched in Stretch/Stable a couple
> of years back that broke things. I had to hold the package back until Buster
> became the new Stable).

Providing security support to software for ~3 years (2 in stable, and 1 
in oldstable) without upstream's cooperation is difficult. For a complex 
and exposed software like Firefox even more so (remember the OpenSSH 
keys issue?). 

> I agree that Mozilla's decision to abandon reasonable numbering is a
> problem. But the esr release is a year old at this point and will be even
> older by the time Bullseye becomes stable.

In my opinion the introduction of the ESR release by Mozilla was a big 
gain for all those who prefer to use the same software for significant 
periods of time (years rather than months) and is a must for any big 
organisation (think 100s or 1000s of users contacting the company IT 
support at every change of browser version).

> The other issue is what's the point of a non-esr package in SID if it's not
> going to make it down to Testing then Stable? Version 78 is the next esr
> release anyway, so why put the non-esr edition in SID?

For sid users, of course ;)

> Anyway, I run the esr version normally, but having a significantly newer
> version available for those who want it doesn't seem like a bad thing. I
> remember not too long ago when Stable had two versions of Scribus...

Sure, feel free to offer your support to the Firefox packaging team 
(err... person?), after you convinced Mozilla to change their trademark 
policy.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: Thunderbird replacement suggestions?

[Tom Dial]

On 7/4/20 15:38, Tom Dial wrote:
> Greetings.
> 
> While trying to fix a broken Thunderbird/Enigmail installation on my
> wife's Windows laptop, I found the cause to be a new feature in
> Thunderbird 78, installed recently without notice: that it will not
> support Enigmail. The new version also appears to have no obvious way to
> import openpgp keys, and it appears the developers do not plan to
> support that, at least for secret and signed public keys, nor any
> intention to adhere to the "Web of Trust" infrastructure. I still have
> TB 68 on the Debian machines, but expect that will go away by Bullseye
> release, since Mozilla's support for it apparently will end late this year.
> 
> I elected to use Thunderbird a number of years ago because it has a
> relatively decent UI, downloads and removes the messages from my ISP's
> servers, and with Enigmail had reasonably good PGP integration. I'm sure
> there are others, but it's 10 - 20 years since I used them (fetchmail +
> mutt, IIRC).
> 
> I would welcome suggested alternatives. An additional desired feature,
> if known, would be any capability to ingest old messages from Thunderbird.
> 

Thanks to all for the suggestions:

getmail + mutt: (Dan Ritter)
claws-mail: (Andrei Popescu)
sylpheed : (celejar)
protonmail: (ghe2001)(celejar)
protonmail + open-source-bridge: (celejar)

I'll be installing and testing them in some order during the coming months.

Regards,
Tom Dial

Re: [not-so-offlist] posting style [was Re: Using .XCompose]

[davidson]

On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 Ajith R wrote:



Hi David,




Debian conformant style looks like this instead:




Do I understand the style correctly now?


LOL. Probably not. Maybe I should have allowed your discovery of the
mailing list's quoting conventions to take its natural course.

It was maybe silly of me to explain it, before we've figured out why
some of your seemingly reasonable XCompose lines, like this one

   : "ങ്ങ"  # Ajith's auto-geminate rule

aren't effective.


BTW, a query about how the original message is quoted with '<'.


That left angle bracket '<' points in the wrong direction.

A conventional quoted-line prefix is

  "> "

which is a right angle bracket followed by a space.

A mail client that understands this convention may interpret these
indicators, and display any text so prefixed in some other distinctive
fashion. The prefix is mere markup that means "The following text on
this line is quoted material".

And so what one sees displayed in a mail client may not exactly
correspond to the plain text of the message body. Instead of literal
angle bracket prefixes, you might see some other visual representation
of the embedding.

Examining message bodies in a text editor (or with a pager like
"less") might help reduce confusion.


Is it done by hand or does any email clients do it automatically?


Only the artisanal hand-quoter would be able to tell the difference!

And I'm sure there exists at least one maverick mail client that does
not do so automatically.

But I have not taken a survey of email clients. Mine (alpine) does do
so automatically whenever I include a message body in my reply to that
message. And even if it did not automatically prefix the lines of the
quoted message body, then it would not be difficult to tell any
decently functional text editor to employ

 "> "

as a comment string, and then select and comment blocks of quoted
text.

And these prefixes will stack, over the course of a thread. Naturally
enough, email lends itself to replies. So you have an initial message
(degree zero), replies to such a message (degree one), and replies to
replies (degree two), and so on.

A message of the Nth degree might retain lines of quoted material from
N previous messages. And if it does, then one expects to find each of
those lines constituting the most deeply embedded material prefixed
with N instances of

 "> "


Is it necessary that each line s marked with '<'?


All the cool people prefix each line of a quoted message body with

 "> "

It is cool to be cool, but not strictly necessary. If it were
necessary, then it couldn't be cool.


Or is it okay to demarcate the quote at the start and end as I do?


It disrupts the convention. I would not do this.

--
You won't feel the collar if you don't go anywhere.

Re: [offlist] posting style [was Re: Using .XCompose]

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 08 iul 20, 02:52:02, Ajith R wrote:
> 
> Do I understand the style correctly now?

Mostly. Think of it as "conversational" style, with the reply following 
the portion of text it addresses.

Other text should be removed, unless it provides useful context (would 
your message make sense if read by someone not familiar with the issue 
and without access to previous messages?).

> BTW, a query about how the original message is quoted with '<'. Is it 
> done by hand or does any email clients do it automatically?

Most email clients should do this automatically when you select "plain 
text" mode.

HTML messages may look completely different at the receiving side, which 
is why they should be avoided. One can use other characters for 
emphasis, like *bold*, /italics/, _underline_.

> Is it necessary that each line s marked with '<'? Or is it okay to 
> demarcate the quote at the start and end as I do?

In my opinion the most important part is clearly distinguishing between 
quote and reply, as well as properly attributing quotes (who wrote 
what).

Using '>' makes it easier for list recipients to read your message, e.g.  
my email client is configured to use different colours depending on the 
quote level.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: How To Permanently Add-to a Users PATH Statement in the Bash Shell

[David Wright]

On Tue 07 Jul 2020 at 20:20:11 (-0400), Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 08, 2020 at 09:59:52AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 10:29:47AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 03:17:37PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 04:14:16PM +0200, Nicolas George wrote:
> > > > > cd ~/bin
> > > > > ln -s ../opt/something/bin/something
> > > > 
> > > > Not in the default PATH either.
> > > 
> > > $HOME/bin is placed into the user's default PATH by Debian's ~/.profile
> > > (the one in /etc/skel/.profile) if it exists at the time the ~/.profile
> > > is read, if the ~/.profile is read at all.
> > > 
> > > As I keep saying, of course, what dot files actually get read depends
> > > on how one logs in.
> > 
> > That souds mildly disconcerting - when does `~/.profile` _not_ get read?
> > 
> When the shell is invoked non-interactively, or when it is invoked
> interactively with --noprofile.  Note that the --login option will cause
> a non-interactive shell to read ~/.profile (along with other
> configuration files).

Some of us use ~/.bash_profile (and even ~/.bash_login) which will
override ~/.profile being read. Of course, you're best reading
man bashfor a fuller story of bash's machinations.

Cheers,
David.

Re: /etc/default/grub doesn't exist, what to do?

[David Wright]

On Tue 07 Jul 2020 at 17:55:34 (-0400), Borden Rhodes wrote:
> >> It would help if you said which version of Debian you're using.
> >
> >And which boot parameter.
> 
> Debian Bullseye. I want to add pci=nomsi to the boot parameters to
> troubleshoot a USB 3 issue.
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/Grub#Configuring_GRUB_v2 says that
> /etc/default/grub ought to exist, if it doesn't should the wiki be
> updated?

The obvious way in which to lack /etc/default/grub is either by
. deleting the file, intentionally or otherwise, or
. avoiding installing Grub with the Debian installer.

Some people do the latter deliberately, to avoid interfering with a
preexisting MBR. However, you can still install the Grub packages by
only cancelling when the d-i asks for which disk to use. (I suppose to
be safe, one should insert a USB stick so that Grub has to make a choice.)

The actual package which creates /etc/default/grub in the d-i is
one of grub-pc and the packages it conflicts with, viz:
grub (<< 0.97-54), grub-coreboot, grub-efi-amd64, grub-efi-ia32, grub-ieee1275, 
grub-legacy, grub-xen
To find out which, either look at   dpkg -l   or type
$ grep -B2 'Creating config file /etc/def' /var/log/installer/syslog
if you're a member of group adm.

The file originates in grub2-common as /usr/share/grub/default/grub
but can be altered in grub-< … >'s postinst script.

Of course, some of the above might be different on an upgraded system,
which you can see mentioned in that script.

Cheers,
David.

Re: [offlist] Re: Using .XCompose

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Wed, Jul 08, 2020 at 02:59:20AM +, Ajith R wrote:
> Hi David,
> 
> >>>
> As a rule, send replies to the listserv address:
> 
>     debian-user@lists.debian.org
> 
> 2. In-Line replies, instead of Top-Posting
> 3. I apologise for being a Terrible Person


Hey!  I thought I had a patent, trademark _and_ copyright on self deprecation ;)

Re: [offlist] Re: Using .XCompose

[davidson]

On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 Ajith R wrote:

Hi David,




As a rule, send replies to the listserv address:

    debian-user@lists.debian.org

2. In-Line replies, instead of Top-Posting
3. I apologise for being a Terrible Person






I didn't pay attention to the fact that the from address in the
email was yours and not that of the list server. I just replied to
the email. I will try to remember to correct the to address


LOL. No big deal either way.


I hope my replies confirm to the Bottom-Line style you suggested in another 
mail.


Working on a reply to that part.


I thank you for showing the patience


No patience required.


to explain to us the newcomers the conventions of this list.


They say that those who cannot, will teach. That might apply in this
case.

--
You won't feel the collar if you don't go anywhere.

Fw: Using .XCompose

[Ajith R]

Hi Zenaan,


I'm not sure if it's been asked or stated by you, but which desktop are you 
using?  


I am using KDE


Thanks,
ajith

Re: [offlist] Re: Using .XCompose

[Ajith R]

Hi David,

>>>
As a rule, send replies to the listserv address:

    debian-user@lists.debian.org

2. In-Line replies, instead of Top-Posting
3. I apologise for being a Terrible Person

>>>

I didn't pay attention to the fact that the from address in the email was yours 
and not that of the list server. I just replied to the email. I will try to 
remember to correct the to address

I hope my replies confirm to the Bottom-Line style you suggested in another 
mail.

I thank you for showing the patience to explain to us the newcomers the 
conventions of this list.

Thanks,
ajith

Re: [offlist] posting style [was Re: Using .XCompose]

[Ajith R]

Hi David,

>>>
Debian conformant style looks like this instead:
>>>

Do I understand the style correctly now? BTW, a query about how the original 
message is quoted with '<'. Is it done by hand or does any email clients do it 
automatically?  Is it necessary that each line s marked with '<'? Or is it okay 
to demarcate the quote at the start and end as I do?

Thanks,
ajith

Re: debsecan does not report a vulnerability?

[Victor Sudakov]

l0f...@tuta.io wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 7 juil. 2020 à 09:23 de v...@sibptus.ru:
> 
> > After reading your replies and the Debian security advisories, I made up
> > my mind that I probably just want to now if new versions of packages are
> > available in the repos. Perhaps it's the best thing I can do about
> > vulnerabilities. 
> >
> > So I wrote the following UserParameter for the Zabbix agent, and I think
> > I've found it useful already:
> >
> > # Number of upgradable packages
> > UserParameter=packages.upgradeable,if [ -x /usr/bin/apt-get ] ; then 
> > /usr/bin/apt-get upgrade -s | grep -c '^Inst' ; elif [ -x /usr/bin/yum ] ; 
> > then /usr/bin/yum check-update | grep -c 'updates$'; else echo "1" ; fi
> >
> > It does not require any extra utilities to estimate the number of
> > upgradeable packages.
> >
> Regarding APT, don't forget first to do:
> apt update
> ...otherwise you won't get so many upgrades available ;)

This already happens automatically, from apt.systemd.daily I think.

> Why not just counting results of:
> apt list --upgradable
> or
> apt list --upgradeable
> ?

"WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface. Use with caution in 
scripts."

So I chose to exercise caution.

-- 
Victor Sudakov,  VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN
2:5005/49@fidonet http://vas.tomsk.ru/


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Re: Very old hardware...

[davidson]

On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 davidson wrote:

On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 Andrei POPESCU wrote:

On Lu, 06 iul 20, 21:41:11, Andy Smith wrote:


I still wouldn't use OP's system for anything except curiosity or
maybe propping a door open.


That's probably the only use for which it is better than a Raspberry
Pi (or equivalent) ;)


Isn't OP's system likely to contain significantly more


s/system/machine/


user-serviceable parts than a Pi?

Maybe this is mostly of interest only to hobbyists, but it seems to me
OP expressed an interest in pursuing precisely that sort of hobby.




--
What do you want to take off? [hrzF or ?*] F
You were wearing a +0 robe.  The frost giant turns to flee.

Re: Very old hardware...

[davidson]

On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 Davide Lombardo wrote:

Good evening Debian User, I have found an old PC with these specs:
CPU: Pentium III 700 Mhz;
DRAM: 64 MB SDDR
GPU: RIVA TNT-2
HARDISK: 10 GB
FLOPPY DISK DRIVE
MODEM 56K
In the receipt is written 3,000 Lire (1,500) Euro of today...
Do you think I can install something different than the already installed
WIN98 system ?


This looks like a good fit.

  https://www.minix3.org/
  MINIX 3 is a free, open-source, operating system designed to be
  highly reliable, flexible, and secure.  It is based on a tiny
  microkernel running in kernel mode with the rest of the operating
  system running as a number of isolated, protected, processes in user
  mode. It runs on x86 and ARM CPUs, is compatible with NetBSD, and
  runs thousands of NetBSD packages.

You will want to refer to

  MINIX 3 Hardware Requirements
  
https://wiki.minix3.org/doku.php?id=usersguide:hardwarerequirements#minix_3_hardware_requirements

--
What do you want to take off? [hrzF or ?*] F
You were wearing a +0 robe.  The frost giant turns to flee.

Re: .Xresources for xless

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 10:27:55AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 10:07:35AM -0400, Bob Bernstein wrote:
> > Running up-to-date Buster here, amd64:
> > Linux debian.localdomain 4.19.0-8-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.98-1+deb10u1
> > (2020-04-27) x86_64 GNU/Linux
> > 
> > I have moved to a display manager (wmd), so is my xrdb ~/.Xresources line
> > (xrdb ~/.Xresources) in .xinitrc being called into the loop, so to speak?
> 
> You can use "xrdb -query" to find out.
> 
> In general, I would *not* expect ~/.xinitrc to be used by a display
> manager login.  Even when you were presumably using startx, you were
> supposed to have moved the ~/.xinitrc to ~/.xsession decades ago.
> 
> The ~/.xsession file is used by traditional display manager logins (xdm)
> as well as by Debian's startx.


Ahah!  Finally!  After 7 years of twisty little mazes, the _real_ reason his 
`.bashrc` would not load, was revealed to his tired and dungeon weary eyes.  He 
cracked out The One in a faint and final hope of Success At Last™©®, and before 
he knew what was happening...

Re: .Xresources for xless

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 10:07:35AM -0400, Bob Bernstein wrote:
> Sorry to be all over the court here. I am an older um gentleman, and I am on a

I take it an "um gentleman" means "übér mènsche" :)

That sounds rather awesome actually...


> -- 
>  A test of right and wrong must be the means, one would
>  think, of ascertaining what is right or wrong, and not a
>  consequence of having already ascertained it.
> 
>   J. S. Mill

Now that's gold!

Re: How To Permanently Add-to a Users PATH Statement in the Bash Shell

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 10:16:21AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> Gods, I am so tired of this question and having to repeat my demands
> for BASIC information over and over.
> 
> Here are some resources for those of you who refuse to reveal any of
> the necessary background information to get answers, and would rather
> hoard all of your details under the guise of "privacy" or whatever.
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/Xsession
> https://wiki.debian.org/EnvironmentVariables
> https://mywiki.wooledge.org/DotFiles
> 
> That is nowhere NEAR a comprehensive overveiw of every possible piece
> of every possible configuration, but it's a starting point.


I faced this issue a few years back, doing a Linux console login (manual crypt 
bindmount for $HOME), setting some env functions in BASH, and very naievely 
thinking they would appear in my Bash shells within a manually launched XFCE 
__session__!

The complexity of this is interesting:

 - XFCE acts as, or uses, Dash or something that does not propagate shell 
functions in the parent env

 - this is despite that functions are essentially "fancy vars" which are 
`eval`ed

 - so launch startx, figuring out over many failures to start "modern" 
"sessions"

 - eventually `dbus`es, keyboards, USB disks and everything works at least 
marginally

 - discover that your initial default session, spanning 2 monitors, 9 desktops, 
and with an official gazillion terms, is a little  slow, to start

 - decide that the best way to speed things up is to reduce your 600+ shell 
function env init overhead - which was hitting twice for every term, because 
TMUX :D

 - and since we're doing a pre-X Linux console based initial login, what better 
reduction than to have a single environment inherited by all sub processes 
including shells?

 - but alas, XFCE would not propagate shell functions

 - so try somewhere in the session startup apps - nope, courdn't figure it out 
at least

 - ended up bypassing the session entirely and learning how to ride the "bash 
handles your multiple Xorg monitors" bronco, beautifully laying out those 
"official gazillion" terms - with one Master Of The Bash Universe (MOTBU) 
wielding the all powerful One Term to Rule Them All - or at least, that's how 
it felt :)  And the One Term (naturally shortened of course to just The One) 
loaded up it's env with all those juicy functions _before_ launching all the 
others

 - as a bonus, this Uber One Term get up, would be usable in any desktop 
session, not limited to the XFCE I was using


It shall be tidied up and drip fed in a torrent of git lollies to the screaming 
hoards, hopefully not too far away ;)

Create your world,

Re: Very old hardware...

[davidson]

On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 Andrei POPESCU wrote:

On Lu, 06 iul 20, 21:41:11, Andy Smith wrote:


I still wouldn't use OP's system for anything except curiosity or
maybe propping a door open.


That's probably the only use for which it is better than a Raspberry
Pi (or equivalent) ;)


Isn't OP's system likely to contain significantly more
user-serviceable parts than a Pi?

Maybe this is mostly of interest only to hobbyists, but it seems to me
OP expressed an interest in pursuing precisely that sort of hobby.

--
What do you want to take off? [hrzF or ?*] F
You were wearing a +0 robe.  The frost giant turns to flee.

Re: Using .XCompose

[davidson]

On Wed, 8 Jul 2020 Zenaan Harkness wrote:


I'm not sure if it's been asked or stated by you, but which desktop
are you using?


Elsewhere in the thread,

  
https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/885539452.3315628.1594115314...@mail.yahoo.com

OP mentions using Konsole and Kate, to test changes made to ~/.XCompose.

So KDE would be my guess. Only a guess, of course. OP will probably
tell us the facts. But if you want my speculation in the meantime,
there you are.

[rest snipped]

Re: How To Permanently Add-to a Users PATH Statement in the Bash Shell

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Wed, Jul 08, 2020 at 09:59:52AM +1000, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 10:29:47AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 03:17:37PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> > > On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 04:14:16PM +0200, Nicolas George wrote:
> > > > cd ~/bin
> > > > ln -s ../opt/something/bin/something
> > > 
> > > Not in the default PATH either.
> > 
> > $HOME/bin is placed into the user's default PATH by Debian's ~/.profile
> > (the one in /etc/skel/.profile) if it exists at the time the ~/.profile
> > is read, if the ~/.profile is read at all.
> > 
> > As I keep saying, of course, what dot files actually get read depends
> > on how one logs in.
> 
> 
> That souds mildly disconcerting - when does `~/.profile` _not_ get read?
> 
When the shell is invoked non-interactively, or when it is invoked
interactively with --noprofile.  Note that the --login option will cause
a non-interactive shell to read ~/.profile (along with other
configuration files).

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[Keith bainbridge]

On 7/7/20 1:26 pm, Keith bainbridge wrote:

On 7/7/20 8:20 am, Dan Ritter wrote:

Gary Dale wrote:

This is a wish-list feature but I'm running Debian/Bullseye and the only
version of Firefox is the ESR one. It's stable but it has display 
bugs that

I'd like to if they are fixed in a newer version.

An updated (non-ESR) version of Firefox would allow me to figure out 
which

spacing is the more accurate. I expect outside of the Debian world, most
people are not using the ESR release and most are probably more 
current than

what I'm using.



You're not disallowed from installing Firefox from Mozilla, it's
just not packaged because it updates at least once a month,
and that would violate "stable" policy.

I recommend uncompressing it in /opt if you need to offer it to
multiple users, or anywhere in your /home if you don't.

-dsr-



Here hear, I say

As an example, I run nightly (shows as v80) on Bullseye. It updates at 
least every day, seems like sometimes twice a day, but I may be loosing 
track of when I deferred the restart - you get the option of restart now 
or later.


Over at least 6 months, I have had 2 instances of it not wanting to 
start on reboot.  I just download and install the latest version on the 
Mozilla site.


I use a separate partition for the apps I use mostly - I multi boot and 
/home is mounted noexec.



If that sounds like to advanced there is the beta option as well.



On relection about something said about mixing versions

Firefox-esr starts alongside firefox v80 - just checked

the standard install of Thunderbird in bullseye did NOT start - 
complaining about a profile that was set by a newer version (78 in my 
case). it was deleted. I have had no problems with the advanced version 
I am using since I learnt that I have to point the start menu to the 
specific profile.


--

Keith Bainbridge

keithr...@gmail.com

0447 667468

Re: How To Permanently Add-to a Users PATH Statement in the Bash Shell

[Zenaan Harkness]

Ahh, asked too soon. Thanks Greg.


On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 10:16:21AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 09:57:34AM -0400, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> > The Subject line is the problem
> 
> Yeah.  The Subject: line reveals the problem: you believe that PATH is
> set primarily by your shell.
> 
> It's not.  It's set primarily by your method of login, and then by your
> session tools, whether those be a shell or a desktop environment.  A
> shell may have the final word in some setups, but in many cases,
> most of your environment is set before a shell is even executed.
...

Re: How To Permanently Add-to a Users PATH Statement in the Bash Shell

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 10:29:47AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 03:17:37PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 04:14:16PM +0200, Nicolas George wrote:
> > > cd ~/bin
> > > ln -s ../opt/something/bin/something
> > 
> > Not in the default PATH either.
> 
> $HOME/bin is placed into the user's default PATH by Debian's ~/.profile
> (the one in /etc/skel/.profile) if it exists at the time the ~/.profile
> is read, if the ~/.profile is read at all.
> 
> As I keep saying, of course, what dot files actually get read depends
> on how one logs in.


That souds mildly disconcerting - when does `~/.profile` _not_ get read?

Re: Suggestion for systemd and /usr on seperate partition

[David Wright]

On Wed 08 Jul 2020 at 02:35:09 (+1000), Andrew McGlashan wrote:
> On 8/7/20 2:11 am, Michael Stone wrote:
> > On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 10:45:17AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> >> On Wed 08 Jul 2020 at 00:41:12 (+1000), Andrew McGlashan wrote:
> >>> On 2/11/14 8:58 am, Elimar Riesebieter wrote:
> >>> > * David Baron  [2014-11-01 19:13 +0200]:
> >>> >> On Friday 31 October 2014 13:08:27 Elimar Riesebieter wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > [...]
> >>> >
> >>> >>> It's your decision. MODULES=most should be okay. BUSYBOX=y is
> >>> >>> essential.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> This is what the install gave me.  I have not touched it.
> >>> >> Where do I tell it to mount /usr?
> >>> >
> >>> > No need to. initramfs-tools does it by default. Check dmesg or
> >>> > journal.
> >>>
> >>> Still today, it fails to mount /usr if /usr is a logical volume using lvm2
> >>>
> >>> I worked around that problem with an extra "activate" line in the 
> >>> following file:
> >>>
> >>>    /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/local-top/lvm2
> >>>
> >>>    activate "/dev/mapper/vg0-usr"
> >>>
> >>> I placed that after the line to activate ROOT
> >>>
> >>> So, still broken after all this time :(
> >>
> >> Is this link worth a read?
> >>
> >> https://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken/
> >>
> >> BTW the first line of the thread is "completely without starting any 
> >> flamewars:"
> > 
> > The short answer is that there simply isn't a good reason to do this on a 
> > modern system, and there is no volunteer to donate the enormous amount of 
> > effort required to make
> > something work for which there isn't a good justification for expending 
> > that effort.

Agreed, but I think both the OP and the reviver are discussing
legacy-partitioned systems. AFAIK these have remained upgradable
on stable from wheezy¹ through to buster—or are you saying that
that's not true? (IDK: all my primary (buster) systems are
/usr-merged too, being installed afresh.)

> > There should be no flamewar, if someone wants the situation to change they 
> > simply need to be
> > the person who puts in all the work.

The reason I included that line was that the page includes:
   "It isn't systemd's fault. systemd mostly works fine with /usr on a
separate file system that is not pre-mounted at boot."
That had been true for years before this 2014 thread started.
It would be easy to think that the subject line was suggesting this is
not the case, and for the thread to pick up flames. That's all.

> Just doing dist-upgrade with a perfectly acceptable file system previously is 
> no reason why it should break.

Quite right. You read the Release Notes and follow their advice at each upgrade.

> The mentioned intramfs config file has a strange note about it being 
> "dangerous" to enable activate all logical volumes, why?!?!?!

A reference to the specific file would help. I see no mention here.

> Debian/Devuan are Linux distros that allow for continuous upgrading without 
> re-installing; the fact that MANY systems have previously separated root and 
> /usr and, effectively
> "times have changed" really isn't an acceptable answer.

True; I would expect at least a migration path for each distribution.

> Even systemd doesn't seem to think it should be a problem for those that 
> choose to use systemd.

I'm not clear what the significance of "Even …" is. You are presumably
not running systemd, in view of this:

> >>> This is a system now running Devuan Beowulf btw, but it gets most of it's 
> >>> packages directly from Debian repos.

So what steps did you take since, say, wheezy¹ to compensate for the
changes that have been come about?

¹ IIRC booting wheezy did not require anything from /usr until the
scripts in /etc/init.d/ had mounted /usr as per /etc/fstab.

Cheers,
David.

Re: AMD FirePro - second monitor

[Zenaan Harkness]

On Mon, Jul 06, 2020 at 10:57:05PM +0200, Jakob Miksch wrote:
> Hello everybody,
> 
> I am running Debian "Sid" on a desktop PC with the "AMD ATI FirePro W5100"
> graphics card. When I connect a second monitor, Debian recognizes it but the
> monitor stays black. I can even move windows on it, but I cannot see them.
> 
> On the same computer is a Windows 10 partition on which the connection of both
> monitors works without problem.
> 
> I have installed all drivers like described here
> https://wiki.debian.org/AtiHowTo . I also tried to install the proprietary
> driver from the AMD website. Everything without success.
> 
> Do you have any idea what the problem could be?
> 
> I am happy about any hint.
> Thanks and best wishes,
> Jakob


I assume you are using some version of RandR?

Try searching the packages for "randr".

I use "xrandr" for scripting, but also the XFCE desktop's normal settings 
dialog for "Monitors" which runs the xfce4-display-settings program.

Good lick,

Re: Using .XCompose

[Zenaan Harkness]

I'm not sure if it's been asked or stated by you, but which desktop are you 
using?  If you're new to Debian, perhaps just the default.

I am using XFCE and in the menu:

   Applications → Settings → Keyboard

there are three tabs "Behaviour", "Application Shortcuts" and "Layout".

Under the "Layout" tab, I have the option for "Compose key" - this is a drop 
down list, and I chose the "Scroll Lock" key as my compose key.

As you can see in the above, I am producing arrows, by pressing:

   "Scroll Lock"  and then  ">"

For my standard US layout, ">" is "Shift + Period".

I don't know this will be useful, but I did not catch that you had checked your 
desktop settings.

Good luck,




On Mon, Jul 06, 2020 at 05:34:59AM +, Ajith R wrote:
> Hi,
> I am new to Linux and Debian.I am trying to build a custom layout for my 
> mother tongue Malayalam (India, Kerala).
> The problem I am trying to tackle:
> One of the Malayalam letters, ങ (U+0D19), is used much more commonly in its 
> geminate form which is composed of three unicode charcters ങ ് ങ (U+0D19 
> U+0D4D U+0D19)  which will yield the geminate form ങ്ങ So, when I type, I 
> want the ങ to be replaced with ങ്ങ.The keyboard layout is working fine as far 
> as I can see. It does yield the correct letters. What doesn't seem to work is 
> the .XCompose mechanism. Please tell me what I am missing.
> Relevant part of my layout file /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/in
> ---
> partial alphanumeric_keys
> xkb_symbols "mal_puthuniraA" {
>  name[Group1] = "Malayalam (Puthu Nira Aarambham)";
>  key.type="FOUR_LEVEL";
>  key    { [   U0D41, U0D19, U0D4E, U0D71] }; //  ു MALAYALAM VOWEL SIGN 
> U, ങ്ങ MALAYALAM LETTER NGA geminate form,  ൎMALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH,  ൱ 
> MALAYALAM NUMBER ONE HUNDRED include "level3(ralt_switch)"
> };--
> My .XCompose file in my home directory is-include "%L" 
>   : "ങ്ങ"
>  : "ങ്ങ"
> ങ : "ങ്ങ"-
> I found the name XK_Shift_L in keysymdef.h file. I tried the unicode 
> character and its code as well to identify the keypress. I tried with only 
> one of the lines as well. XCompose(3) — libx11-doc — Debian buster — Debian 
> Manpages was consulted. I have tried restarting after making changes which 
> didn't help. 
> Am I referring to the keypress correctly? What am I missing?
> Thanks for your help,ajith
> 
> 
> | 
> | 
> | 
> |  |  |
> 
>  |
> 
>  |
> | 
> |  | 
> XCompose(3) — libx11-doc — Debian buster — Debian Manpages
> 
> 
>  |
> 
>  |
> 
>  |
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: No "type=APPARMOR_ALLOWED/DENIED" logs

[l0f4r0]

Hi Didier,

6 juil. 2020 à 23:42 de didier.gau...@gmail.com:

> man -s7 apparmor seems to indicate (DEBUGGING section) that for the DENY 
> messages to appear, you have to "Turn off deny audit quieting" and for the 
> ALLOW messages to appear you have to "Force audit mode"
>
Thanks for having checked that.
Unfortunately, filling /sys/module/apparmor/parameters/audit with "noquiet" or 
"all" doesn't change anything about my logs (even after restarting 
apparmor.service)...

I will probably post a message on AppArmor ML and tell you should I get the 
final answer :)

Best regards,
l0f4r0

Re: /etc/default/grub doesn't exist, what to do?

[Borden Rhodes]

>> It would help if you said which version of Debian you're using.
>
>And which boot parameter.

Debian Bullseye. I want to add pci=nomsi to the boot parameters to
troubleshoot a USB 3 issue.

https://wiki.debian.org/Grub#Configuring_GRUB_v2 says that
/etc/default/grub ought to exist, if it doesn't should the wiki be
updated?

Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[davidson]

On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 davidson wrote:

On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 Gary Dale wrote:

On 2020-07-07 09:57, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 09:45:56AM -0400, Gary Dale wrote:

I did install it and it is a single package. It runs fine in
parallel with the esr release. Hopefully the maintainers will
continue the practice of having firefox and firefox_esr available
and bring it to Testing.

You don't understand what testing *IS*!

Testing is not a "rolling release".

Testing is not a thing you use because it makes you cooler.

Testing is not a thing you use because it has higher version
numbers of packages, and the sum of all the package version numbers
is your score, and having a higher score makes you win the game.

Testing is not a thing you use because you're an immature child who
thinks any package more than a year old is, like, TOO OLD TO BE
USED BY ANYONE, like ohmygod.

Testing is the NEXT STABLE RELEASE.

Testing is what will become Debian 11, bullseye, in a year or two.

When bullseye is stable, it will not have an unstable firefox package.

When bullseye is stable, it will have firefox-esr, which is a
stable package (or as close as you can get with a browser), because
it is a stable release.

Therefore, testing has firefox-esr.

You run testing because you want to help TEST THE NEXT STABLE
RELEASE, so that you can find bugs in it and report them, and get
them fixed before the release.

Because they sure as hell will not be fixed AFTER the release.
This is your one and only chance.

If you are the kind of person who MUST HAVE THE LATEST THING, then
Debian is not meant for you.

This includes browsers.


The package maintainers are who make packages stable, not the
product developers.


People who run testing and report bugs make a significant contribution
to the stability of stable, don't you think?


There is nothing to prevent a none-esr version of Firefox from
making it into stable.  The maintainers just need to install the
bug fix patches created to fix the bugs in that particular version.


People who run testing and report bugs make a significant contribution
to the stability of stable, don't you think? (Déjà vu!)


I should add: It seems to me your wishlist proposal entails that
certain resources --both the work of maintainers, and the population
of debian testers prone to use Firefox-- which at present are directed
toward the release cycle of a single package, will henceforth be split
between two packages.

Do you think this is true?

--
What do you want to take off? [hrzF or ?*] F
You were wearing a +0 robe.  The frost giant turns to flee.

Re: Can slrn decode MIME messages?

[Borden Rhodes]

Not a direct answer to your question, but the etiquette on the lists
is to use plain text only messages wrapped at 80 characters to
maximise compatibility with clients - I assume because the list
forwards the messages using text-only headers.

I get digests. Even though I'm reading on modern e-mail software which
has no difficulty displaying HTML or decoding base64, I still get
messages from debian-user with the base64 encoding and HTML tags.

Re: How do I troubleshoot wireless network dropping?

[Borden Rhodes]

> So far the OP hasn't provided any information on what network management
> tool is in use, we can only guess.

Fair comment. I just assumed that everybody uses Network Manager these
days. I travel with my laptop to different WiFi networks, and I never
did learn any other form of WiFi setup. For the record, I do get
similar drops on other
networks.

> I wouldn't recommend using ifconfig to enable or disable your second network
> card. It is somewhat deprecated. Try using ifup and ifdown.

Whilst I know that the transition has been towards using ip* over if*,
I get those commands confused all the time. That's the great thing
about Linux: you never know whether you're using the right tool for
the job.

Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[David Wright]

On Tue 07 Jul 2020 at 20:39:05 (+0100), Joe wrote:
> Yes, my bank occasionally becomes inaccessible to FF, though not
> usually for more than about a week, when a cluebat has been wielded. I
> switch to Midori until it is fixed. It's a more limited browser, but it
> usually seems to handle sites that cause problems for FF.
> 
> An odd one recently: a web-only insurance company was returning a 'down
> for maintenance' page. After two days, I thought 'this can't be right',
> and fired up Midori, and sure enough, no problem. I haven't bothered
> finding out what Midori pretends to be

Perhaps what I fired up above my head (it's 94°F outside):

https://www.menards.com/main/lighting-ceiling-fans/ceiling-fans/indoor-ceiling-fans/patriot-lighting-trade-midori-ii-52-led-ceiling-fan/20684/p-1534400991345.htm

Cheers,
David.

Re: debsecan does not report a vulnerability?

[l0f4r0]

Hi,

7 juil. 2020 à 09:23 de v...@sibptus.ru:

> After reading your replies and the Debian security advisories, I made up
> my mind that I probably just want to now if new versions of packages are
> available in the repos. Perhaps it's the best thing I can do about
> vulnerabilities. 
>
> So I wrote the following UserParameter for the Zabbix agent, and I think
> I've found it useful already:
>
> # Number of upgradable packages
> UserParameter=packages.upgradeable,if [ -x /usr/bin/apt-get ] ; then 
> /usr/bin/apt-get upgrade -s | grep -c '^Inst' ; elif [ -x /usr/bin/yum ] ; 
> then /usr/bin/yum check-update | grep -c 'updates$'; else echo "1" ; fi
>
> It does not require any extra utilities to estimate the number of
> upgradeable packages.
>
Regarding APT, don't forget first to do:
apt update
...otherwise you won't get so many upgrades available ;)
Why not just counting results of:
apt list --upgradable
or
apt list --upgradeable
?
NB: Personally, I prefer apticron :)

Best regards,
l0f4r0

Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[davidson]

On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 Gary Dale wrote:

On 2020-07-07 09:57, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 09:45:56AM -0400, Gary Dale wrote:

I did install it and it is a single package. It runs fine in
parallel with the esr release. Hopefully the maintainers will
continue the practice of having firefox and firefox_esr available
and bring it to Testing.

You don't understand what testing *IS*!

Testing is not a "rolling release".

Testing is not a thing you use because it makes you cooler.

Testing is not a thing you use because it has higher version
numbers of packages, and the sum of all the package version numbers
is your score, and having a higher score makes you win the game.

Testing is not a thing you use because you're an immature child who
thinks any package more than a year old is, like, TOO OLD TO BE
USED BY ANYONE, like ohmygod.

Testing is the NEXT STABLE RELEASE.

Testing is what will become Debian 11, bullseye, in a year or two.

When bullseye is stable, it will not have an unstable firefox package.

When bullseye is stable, it will have firefox-esr, which is a
stable package (or as close as you can get with a browser), because
it is a stable release.

Therefore, testing has firefox-esr.

You run testing because you want to help TEST THE NEXT STABLE
RELEASE, so that you can find bugs in it and report them, and get
them fixed before the release.

Because they sure as hell will not be fixed AFTER the release.
This is your one and only chance.

If you are the kind of person who MUST HAVE THE LATEST THING, then
Debian is not meant for you.

This includes browsers.


The package maintainers are who make packages stable, not the
product developers.


People who run testing and report bugs make a significant contribution
to the stability of stable, don't you think?


There is nothing to prevent a none-esr version of Firefox from
making it into stable. The maintainers just need to install the bug
fix patches created to fix the bugs in that particular version.


People who run testing and report bugs make a significant contribution
to the stability of stable, don't you think? (Déjà vu!)


This is exactly what they do when significant bugs are found in the
stable version of any package
(in fact, a significant security bug was patched in Stretch/Stable a

  ^^^ 

couple of years back that broke things.

    ^ ^^

You seem to be taking the position that you would like this breakage
in stable to occur more frequently, and for the sake of introducing
fixes of less significance.

Do I misunderstand your position?


I had to hold the package back until Buster became the new Stable).

[snip]

--
What do you want to take off? [hrzF or ?*] F
You were wearing a +0 robe.  The frost giant turns to flee.

Re: /etc/default/grub doesn't exist, what to do?

[floris]

Borden Rhodes schreef op 2020-07-07 20:43:

I know this is an amateur question, but I want to make sure that I do
it correctly the first time. I want to add a boot parameter, so what
file do I edit/create to do so?

My computer doesn't have a /etc/default/grub file. I can't tell you
why. I didn't intentionally delete it. I have a bunch of configuration
files in /etc/grub.d , but I don't want to touch any of them because I
don't know what put them there or if/when they'll be overwritten.

Is there a way to generate a default /etc/default/grub file that I can
edit? I'd think after 30 years there would be a command to do that,
but over an hour on the Internet yielded nothing.

With thanks,



The package grub2-common has the file:
/usr/share/grub/default/grub
Which is the default /etc/default/grub file

---
Floris

Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[Dan Ritter]

Gary Dale wrote: 
> There is nothing to prevent a none-esr version of Firefox from making it
> into stable. The maintainers just need to install the bug fix patches
> created to fix the bugs in that particular version. This is exactly what
> they do when significant bugs are found in the stable version of any package
> (in fact, a significant security bug was patched in Stretch/Stable a couple
> of years back that broke things. I had to hold the package back until Buster
> became the new Stable).
> 
> I agree that Mozilla's decision to abandon reasonable numbering is a
> problem. But the esr release is a year old at this point and will be even
> older by the time Bullseye becomes stable.

No, it won't. Mozilla offered 78.0.1esr a few days ago; it is
likely to be the one that goes into Bullseye.

-dsr-

Re: /etc/default/grub doesn't exist, what to do?

[l0f4r0]

Hi,

Please tell us the output of:
dpkg -l | grep -i grub

Best regards,
l0f4r0

Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 04:28:16PM -0400, Gary Dale wrote:
> There is nothing to prevent a none-esr version of Firefox from making it
> into stable.

There are several things I can think of.  One of them is "common sense".
Another one is "Debian policy".

But you can't hear anything that violates your assumption set about
testing as a rolling release, so whatever.  Have fun with your computer
however you like.

Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[Gary Dale]

On 2020-07-07 09:57, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 09:45:56AM -0400, Gary Dale wrote:

I did install it and it is a single package. It runs fine in parallel with
the esr release. Hopefully the maintainers will continue the practice of
having firefox and firefox_esr available and bring it to Testing.

You don't understand what testing *IS*!

Testing is not a "rolling release".

Testing is not a thing you use because it makes you cooler.

Testing is not a thing you use because it has higher version numbers of
packages, and the sum of all the package version numbers is your score,
and having a higher score makes you win the game.

Testing is not a thing you use because you're an immature child who thinks
any package more than a year old is, like, TOO OLD TO BE USED BY ANYONE,
like ohmygod.

Testing is the NEXT STABLE RELEASE.

Testing is what will become Debian 11, bullseye, in a year or two.

When bullseye is stable, it will not have an unstable firefox package.

When bullseye is stable, it will have firefox-esr, which is a stable
package (or as close as you can get with a browser), because it is a
stable release.

Therefore, testing has firefox-esr.

You run testing because you want to help TEST THE NEXT STABLE RELEASE,
so that you can find bugs in it and report them, and get them fixed
before the release.

Because they sure as hell will not be fixed AFTER the release.  This is
your one and only chance.

If you are the kind of person who MUST HAVE THE LATEST THING, then
Debian is not meant for you.

This includes browsers.


The package maintainers are who make packages stable, not the product 
developers.


There is nothing to prevent a none-esr version of Firefox from making it 
into stable. The maintainers just need to install the bug fix patches 
created to fix the bugs in that particular version. This is exactly what 
they do when significant bugs are found in the stable version of any 
package (in fact, a significant security bug was patched in 
Stretch/Stable a couple of years back that broke things. I had to hold 
the package back until Buster became the new Stable).


I agree that Mozilla's decision to abandon reasonable numbering is a 
problem. But the esr release is a year old at this point and will be 
even older by the time Bullseye becomes stable.


The other issue is what's the point of a non-esr package in SID if it's 
not going to make it down to Testing then Stable? Version 78 is the next 
esr release anyway, so why put the non-esr edition in SID?


Anyway, I run the esr version normally, but having a significantly newer 
version available for those who want it doesn't seem like a bad thing. I 
remember not too long ago when Stable had two versions of Scribus...

nixos

[Jude DaShiell]

I got this installed since debian has no foldingathome package.
It may work but is very slow when nix-env -qa is run even to present the
first package.
If I were working I wouldn't have any time for this package so it will be
interesting to see if it works at all.  I managed to get enough drivers
installed on this installation so clinfo identified a platform as clover
so it will be interesting to see if the foldingathome.tar.gz package
installs how well it works after installation.  This older system has
larger sata drives not the 120GB drives my newer system has so there's
enough space to swing a cat on the older system.



--

Re: /etc/default/grub doesn't exist, what to do?

[Brian]

On Tue 07 Jul 2020 at 15:14:33 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 02:43:15PM -0400, Borden Rhodes wrote:
> > My computer doesn't have a /etc/default/grub file. I can't tell you
> > why. I didn't intentionally delete it. I have a bunch of configuration
> > files in /etc/grub.d , but I don't want to touch any of them because I
> > don't know what put them there or if/when they'll be overwritten.
> 
> It would help if you said which version of Debian you're using.

And which boot paramter.

-- 
Brian.

Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[Joe]

On Tue, 7 Jul 2020 22:10:54 +0300
Andrei POPESCU  wrote:

> On Ma, 07 iul 20, 09:26:58, Peter Ehlert wrote:
> > 
> > I had that conversation with the IT goofball for my bank (credit 
> > union) last
> > Monday and Tuesday when they "updated" their crapware and blocked
> > me.
> > 
> > it was far from painless but a couple links to the security
> > statements in the Debian Wiki was enough to get a complete
> > backpedal and endorse Debian Stable with Firefox-ESR.
> > Please don't use them as a barometer.  
> 
> +1 on not using banks' IT as reference. The ones at my bank can't
> even get the decimal separator right.
> 

Yes, my bank occasionally becomes inaccessible to FF, though not
usually for more than about a week, when a cluebat has been wielded. I
switch to Midori until it is fixed. It's a more limited browser, but it
usually seems to handle sites that cause problems for FF.

An odd one recently: a web-only insurance company was returning a 'down
for maintenance' page. After two days, I thought 'this can't be right',
and fired up Midori, and sure enough, no problem. I haven't bothered
finding out what Midori pretends to be (certainly no web designer will
have heard of it), but websites that block FireFox are not good news
for their owners. Had I not already had an account with these people,
this would have been a warning to look elsewhere.

You just can't get the staff...

-- 
Joe

Re: .Xresources for xless

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Ma, 07 iul 20, 10:07:35, Bob Bernstein wrote:
> Running up-to-date Buster here, amd64:
> Linux debian.localdomain 4.19.0-8-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.98-1+deb10u1
> (2020-04-27) x86_64 GNU/Linux
> 
> I have moved to a display manager (wmd), so is my xrdb ~/.Xresources line
> (xrdb ~/.Xresources) in .xinitrc being called into the loop, so to speak?

Your ~/.Xresources should be read automatically by Debian's X session, 
without any additional configuration.

If this is not the case please provide more information on your Window 
Manager / Desktop Environment and the full contents of ~/.xinitrc 
~/.xsession and ~/.xsessionrc (if they exist).

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: /etc/default/grub doesn't exist, what to do?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 02:43:15PM -0400, Borden Rhodes wrote:
> My computer doesn't have a /etc/default/grub file. I can't tell you
> why. I didn't intentionally delete it. I have a bunch of configuration
> files in /etc/grub.d , but I don't want to touch any of them because I
> don't know what put them there or if/when they'll be overwritten.

It would help if you said which version of Debian you're using.

On buster, that file isn't registered as a conf file in any package, so
it's produced by cryptogenic means.  Maybe the installer created it, or
maybe it was created by some package's postinst.  Who can tell?  Who
can know?  I tried reading /var/lib/dpkg/info/grub-efi-amd64.postinst
and couldn't find any code to create it if it's missing.

Your best bet is probably to grab /etc/default/grub from some other
Debian system that matches your Debian version and architecture, and
then modify it as needed.

Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Ma, 07 iul 20, 09:26:58, Peter Ehlert wrote:
> 
> I had that conversation with the IT goofball for my bank (credit 
> union) last
> Monday and Tuesday when they "updated" their crapware and blocked me.
> 
> it was far from painless but a couple links to the security statements in
> the Debian Wiki was enough to get a complete backpedal and endorse Debian
> Stable with Firefox-ESR.
> Please don't use them as a barometer.

+1 on not using banks' IT as reference. The ones at my bank can't even 
get the decimal separator right.


Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Can slrn decode MIME messages?

[Charlie Gibbs]

Due to the high volume of messages in this mailing list, I prefer to
read it via the newsgroup linux.debian.user using slrn.  This works
well for the most part.  However, some messages (e.g. ones from
Matthew Campbell) are MIME-encoded.  I see appropriate headers:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

followed by a block of base64-encoded data.  A second block
sometimes appears, with Content-type: text/html.  The message
itself is unreadable unless I save the base64 data to disk
and run the base64 utility on it.

Is there a way to get slrn to decode MIME messages?  I'm
running Stretch on the laptop on which I read Usenet, and
"slrn --version" returns the following:

slrn 1.0.3
S-Lang Library Version: 2.3.1
Operating System: Linux

COMPILE TIME OPTIONS:
 Backends: +nntp +slrnpull +spool
 External programs / libs: +canlock +inews +ssl +uudeview +iconv
 Features: +decoding +emphasized_text +end_of_thread +fake_refs +gen_msgid
-grouplens -msgid_cache +piping +rnlock +spoilers -strict_from
 Using 64 bit integers for article numbers.

DEFAULTS:
 Default server object: nntp
 Default posting mechanism: nntp

--
/~\  Charlie Gibbs  |  Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ /|  Apple is a cult.
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus |  Linux is anarchy.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  Pick your poison.

/etc/default/grub doesn't exist, what to do?

[Borden Rhodes]

I know this is an amateur question, but I want to make sure that I do
it correctly the first time. I want to add a boot parameter, so what
file do I edit/create to do so?

My computer doesn't have a /etc/default/grub file. I can't tell you
why. I didn't intentionally delete it. I have a bunch of configuration
files in /etc/grub.d , but I don't want to touch any of them because I
don't know what put them there or if/when they'll be overwritten.

Is there a way to generate a default /etc/default/grub file that I can
edit? I'd think after 30 years there would be a command to do that,
but over an hour on the Internet yielded nothing.

With thanks,

Re: Fw: Fwd: How do I troubleshoot wireless network dropping?

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Lu, 06 iul 20, 19:44:06, Matthew Campbell wrote:
> I wouldn't recommend using ifconfig to enable or disable your second 
> network card. It is somewhat deprecated. Try using ifup and ifdown.

Apples and... apple pie?

ifupdown is a network management tool, relying on other low level tools 
to do the actual work. In the past that was 'ifconfig' and others from 
the 'net-tools' package, now it is 'ip' and other tools from the 
'iproute2' package.

Additionally 'ifup' and 'ifdown' are useless if the wireless adapter(s) 
are not configured via 'ifupdown'.

So far the OP hasn't provided any information on what network management 
tool is in use, we can only guess.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Very old hardware...

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Lu, 06 iul 20, 21:41:11, Andy Smith wrote:
> 
> I still wouldn't use OP's system for anything except curiosity or
> maybe propping a door open.

That's probably the only use for which it is better than a Raspberry Pi 
(or equivalent) ;)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[John Hasler]

Look at

https://backports.debian.org/

Note that for Firefox you need to go to

https://mozilla.debian.net/

-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 01:25:05PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> And the 'deb' line in sources.list for stretches backports is?

https://www.google.com/search?q=debian%20backports%20stretch

https://backports.debian.org/Instructions/

Once you find the instructions for buster, just replace "buster" with
"stretch" in every instance.

hex editor for huge files

[hexpeek]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

hexpeek: a hex editor for huge files

Occasionally I need to work with huge binary files. Over the years I've
tried many different tools and never found one that was exactly what I
wanted. In my experience most hex editors either (1) do not work well
with 4GB+ files or (2) require the user to learn a curses interface and
are not scriptable.

So I ended up creating a hex editor with some nice features:
1. prompt interface with command history (with libedit)
2. scriptable interface with a flexible command language
3. no glitches on huge files -- no reading until user requests
4. fully functional insert and delete
5. multi-level backup and restore
6. ability to dump generic file descriptors
7. work in hexadecimal and with 64 bit file offsets by default
8. BSD 3-clause license
9. and more...

If interested, please check out the project at https://www.hexpeek.com
or send e-mail to hexp...@hexpeek.com.

hexpeek is known to work on Debian, CentOS, FreeBSD, and Cygwin and is
expected to work on any recent POSIX-like system. I look forward to
improving hexpeek based on community feedback. Please let me know what
features you are looking for in a hex/metadata editor.

About the author: visit https://www.resiliware.com for more about me.

Thanks for reading!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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=YH5l
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 07 July 2020 12:32:39 John Hasler wrote:

> Gene writes:
> > I'd tend to look at it like this: If the banks IT people think its a
> > big enough risk to use the old version, and demands the new one even
> > before the paint is dry, then it must be pretty serious and the
> > distros should turn up the heat to get it out into the users hands
> > asap.
>
> More likely it's just a policy of always requiring the latest version
> so that they don't have to actually think about it.  Besides, it may
> support a new widget that the Web designers simply *must* add to the
> site ASAP.
>
> > Not sit on it till the next release a year hence as seems to happen
> > now, using the excuse that it is a new feature and that has to wait
> > for the next chapter of the release cycle.
>
> That's what Backports is for.

And the 'deb' line in sources.list for stretches backports is?

Thanks John.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 07 July 2020 12:26:58 Peter Ehlert wrote:

> On 7/7/20 9:02 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Tuesday 07 July 2020 11:32:04 David Wright wrote:
> >> On Tue 07 Jul 2020 at 10:06:08 (-0400), rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, July 07, 2020 09:57:54 AM Greg Wooledge wrote:
>  If you are the kind of person who MUST HAVE THE LATEST THING,
>  then Debian is not meant for you.
> >>>
> >>> Wow, not sure what sparked that response,
> >>
> >> Probably the fact that there have been a lot of postings about
> >> testing recently, which seem to think testing is whatever they want
> >> it to be. For example, the thread on testing's imaginary "security
> >> policy".
> >>
> >>> but I will say one thing, you might
> >>> run testing if your bank insists you have the latest thing
> >>> (browser).
> >>
> >> Yeh, right. Use the suite that's lacking a security policy to carry
> >> out all your financial transactions. ?
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> David.
> >
> > I'd tend to look at it like this: If the banks IT people think its a
> > big enough risk to use the old version, and demands the new one even
> > before the paint is dry, then it must be pretty serious and the
> > distros should turn up the heat to get it out into the users hands
> > asap. Not sit on it till the next release a year hence as seems to
> > happen now, using the excuse that it is a new feature and that has
> > to wait for the next chapter of the release cycle.
>
> I had that conversation with the IT goofball for my bank (credit
> union) last Monday and Tuesday when they "updated" their crapware and
> blocked me.
>
I had a similar experience a decade back, essentially matching one from 3 
decades back and found that my threats to move the account were more 
than sufficient to "get it fixed".  Seems as how a middle 5 digit 
checking account carries considerable weight.  I've only had one problem 
since, they changed something that prevented any dates from printing in 
my online statements, they showed onscreen but were blank when printed, 
ruining any chance of using them in court to settle an argument. I 
arrived with smoke coming out of both ears and had the local manager put 
me back on paper statements.  Suits me just fine and I'm no longer out 
the hassle of doing my own statements.  The monthly usually has a "go 
paperless" blow-in that gets recycled by way of the shredder.

> it was far from painless but a couple links to the security statements
> in the Debian Wiki was enough to get a complete backpedal and endorse
> Debian Stable with Firefox-ESR.
> Please don't use them as a barometer.

My experience has been otherwise. Threatening the cash cow with a diet 
works well.

> > Unfortunately, the public is now so used to some so-called expert
> > crying wolf when its a mongrel puppy, that they've gone to the dark
> > side and are no longer making that noise in hopes the black hats
> > will be slowed in exploiting the newly found vulnerability. So we
> > are left in the dark. 'scuse me?
> >
> > So we the users, are damned if we do, and damned if we don't.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: key "cdrom" not found in map source(s).

[Reiner Buehl]

Here the complete grep cdrom /var/log/syslog:

Jul  7 10:48:44 bilbo automount[31697]: key "cdrom" not found in map
source(s).
Jul  7 11:35:04 bilbo automount[31697]: key "cdrom" not found in map
source(s).
Jul  7 11:39:20 bilbo automount[31697]: key "cdrom" not found in map
source(s).
Jul  7 11:40:38 bilbo automount[31697]: key "cdrom" not found in map
source(s).
Jul  7 14:10:41 bilbo automount[31697]: key "cdrom" not found in map
source(s).
Jul  7 14:33:05 bilbo automount[31697]: key "cdrom" not found in map
source(s).
Jul  7 14:39:05 bilbo automount[31697]: key "cdrom" not found in map
source(s).
Jul  7 15:42:33 bilbo automount[31697]: key "cdrom" not found in map
source(s).
Jul  7 16:59:00 bilbo automount[31697]: key "cdrom" not found in map
source(s).
Jul  7 17:00:36 bilbo automount[31697]: key "cdrom" not found in map
source(s).
Jul  7 18:23:37 bilbo automount[31697]: key "cdrom" not found in map
source(s).

Best regards,
Reiner

Am Mo., 6. Juli 2020 um 08:05 Uhr schrieb Andrei POPESCU <
andreimpope...@gmail.com>:

> On Lu, 06 iul 20, 07:49:09, Reiner Buehl wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I keep getting messages from syslog "key "cdrom" not found in map
> > source(s)." on the console of my Debian Stretch system but I don't even
> > have a cd rom installed in this system.
> >
> > I already checked /etc/fstab, /etc/samba/smb.conf, /etc/autofs.conf and
> all
> > the /etc/auto.* files as this message normally points to wrong NFS or
> other
> > file system exports. I also checked the output of exportfs and did reboot
> > many times but I can't get rid of these messages.
> >
> > Do you have any idea what else could cause them?
>
> Please post the entire log / dmesg entry (copy-paste).
>
> Kind regards,
> Andrei
> --
> http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
>

Re: Suggestion for systemd and /usr on seperate partition

[Andrew McGlashan]

Hi,

On 8/7/20 2:11 am, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 10:45:17AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
>> On Wed 08 Jul 2020 at 00:41:12 (+1000), Andrew McGlashan wrote:
>>> On 2/11/14 8:58 am, Elimar Riesebieter wrote:
>>> > * David Baron  [2014-11-01 19:13 +0200]:
>>> >> On Friday 31 October 2014 13:08:27 Elimar Riesebieter wrote:
>>> >
>>> > [...]
>>> >
>>> >>> It's your decision. MODULES=most should be okay. BUSYBOX=y is
>>> >>> essential.
>>> >>
>>> >> This is what the install gave me.  I have not touched it.
>>> >> Where do I tell it to mount /usr?
>>> >
>>> > No need to. initramfs-tools does it by default. Check dmesg or
>>> > journal.
>>>
>>> Still today, it fails to mount /usr if /usr is a logical volume using lvm2
>>>
>>> I worked around that problem with an extra "activate" line in the following 
>>> file:
>>>
>>>    /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/local-top/lvm2
>>>
>>>    activate "/dev/mapper/vg0-usr"
>>>
>>> I placed that after the line to activate ROOT
>>>
>>> So, still broken after all this time :(
>>
>> Is this link worth a read?
>>
>> https://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken/
>>
>> BTW the first line of the thread is "completely without starting any 
>> flamewars:"
> 
> The short answer is that there simply isn't a good reason to do this on a 
> modern system, and there is no volunteer to donate the enormous amount of 
> effort required to make
> something work for which there isn't a good justification for expending that 
> effort. There should be no flamewar, if someone wants the situation to change 
> they simply need to be
> the person who puts in all the work.

Just doing dist-upgrade with a perfectly acceptable file system previously is 
no reason why it should break.

The mentioned intramfs config file has a strange note about it being 
"dangerous" to enable activate all logical volumes, why?!?!?!

Debian/Devuan are Linux distros that allow for continuous upgrading without 
re-installing; the fact that MANY systems have previously separated root and 
/usr and, effectively
"times have changed" really isn't an acceptable answer.

Even systemd doesn't seem to think it should be a problem for those that choose 
to use systemd.

A.



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[Peter Ehlert]

On 7/7/20 9:02 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:

On Tuesday 07 July 2020 11:32:04 David Wright wrote:


On Tue 07 Jul 2020 at 10:06:08 (-0400), rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, July 07, 2020 09:57:54 AM Greg Wooledge wrote:

If you are the kind of person who MUST HAVE THE LATEST THING, then
Debian is not meant for you.

Wow, not sure what sparked that response,

Probably the fact that there have been a lot of postings about testing
recently, which seem to think testing is whatever they want it to be.
For example, the thread on testing's imaginary "security policy".


but I will say one thing, you might
run testing if your bank insists you have the latest thing
(browser).

Yeh, right. Use the suite that's lacking a security policy to carry
out all your financial transactions. ?

Cheers,
David.

I'd tend to look at it like this: If the banks IT people think its a big
enough risk to use the old version, and demands the new one even before
the paint is dry, then it must be pretty serious and the distros should
turn up the heat to get it out into the users hands asap. Not sit on it
till the next release a year hence as seems to happen now, using the
excuse that it is a new feature and that has to wait for the next
chapter of the release cycle.
I had that conversation with the IT goofball for my bank (credit union) 
last Monday and Tuesday when they "updated" their crapware and blocked me.


it was far from painless but a couple links to the security statements 
in the Debian Wiki was enough to get a complete backpedal and endorse 
Debian Stable with Firefox-ESR.

Please don't use them as a barometer.



Unfortunately, the public is now so used to some so-called expert crying
wolf when its a mongrel puppy, that they've gone to the dark side and
are no longer making that noise in hopes the black hats will be slowed
in exploiting the newly found vulnerability. So we are left in the
dark. 'scuse me?

So we the users, are damned if we do, and damned if we don't.

Cheers, Gene Heskett

Re: Dúvida com ITP para novos pacotes

[Leandro Cunha]

Olá,

A lista que mencionei que é bom está ciente disso até para direcionar
dúvidas sobre empacotamento para lista correta é a devel portuguese.

Foi essa lista que mencionei no e-mail anterior sobre essa questão.

Muito obrigado!

Saudações,

Leandro Cunha

Em ter., 7 de jul. de 2020 às 10:26, Daniel Lenharo 
escreveu:

> Olá
>
> Em 07/07/2020 01:41, Leandro Cunha escreveu:
> > Olá,
> >
> > Bom saber disso que direciono dúvidas sobre empacotamento para essa
> lista, ela
> > anda parada a devel em Português. Eu acessei ela semana passada, até o
> momento
> > que acessei não tinha nenhum e-mail lá desse mês. Já no mês anterior foi
> um
> > pouco utilizada.
> >
>
>
> Conforme foi dito nos e-mails anteriores, a lista adequada em português
> para
> tirar dúvidas sobre empacotamento, é a debian-devel-portuguese.
>
> []'s
>
> --
> Daniel Lenharo de Souza
> GPG: 31D8 0509 460E FB31 DF4B
>  9629 FB0E 132D DB0A A5B1
>
>

Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[John Hasler]

Gene writes:
> I'd tend to look at it like this: If the banks IT people think its a big 
> enough risk to use the old version, and demands the new one even before 
> the paint is dry, then it must be pretty serious and the distros should 
> turn up the heat to get it out into the users hands asap.

More likely it's just a policy of always requiring the latest version
so that they don't have to actually think about it.  Besides, it may
support a new widget that the Web designers simply *must* add to the
site ASAP.

> Not sit on it till the next release a year hence as seems to happen
> now, using the excuse that it is a new feature and that has to wait
> for the next chapter of the release cycle.

That's what Backports is for.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Suggestion for systemd and /usr on seperate partition

[Michael Stone]

On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 10:45:17AM -0500, David Wright wrote:

On Wed 08 Jul 2020 at 00:41:12 (+1000), Andrew McGlashan wrote:

On 2/11/14 8:58 am, Elimar Riesebieter wrote:
> * David Baron  [2014-11-01 19:13 +0200]:
>> On Friday 31 October 2014 13:08:27 Elimar Riesebieter wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>> It's your decision. MODULES=most should be okay. BUSYBOX=y is
>>> essential.
>>
>> This is what the install gave me.  I have not touched it.
>> Where do I tell it to mount /usr?
>
> No need to. initramfs-tools does it by default. Check dmesg or
> journal.

Still today, it fails to mount /usr if /usr is a logical volume using lvm2

I worked around that problem with an extra "activate" line in the following 
file:

   /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/local-top/lvm2

   activate "/dev/mapper/vg0-usr"

I placed that after the line to activate ROOT

So, still broken after all this time :(


Is this link worth a read?

https://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken/

BTW the first line of the thread is "completely without starting any flamewars:"


The short answer is that there simply isn't a good reason to do this on 
a modern system, and there is no volunteer to donate the enormous amount 
of effort required to make something work for which there isn't a good 
justification for expending that effort. There should be no flamewar, if 
someone wants the situation to change they simply need to be the person 
who puts in all the work.

Re: systemd-nspawn networking inside VirtualBox VM

[john doe]

On 7/7/2020 3:13 PM, Didar Hossain wrote:

Hi,

TL;DR
How to get systemd-nspawn containers networking so that they can talk to each
other, the host and the internet inside a Buster VM? VirtualBox on Windows 10
which has internet connectivity via a wireless interface.



I am running a Buster VM with hand picked minimal packages, networking is
configured simply using interfaces(5) file with DHCP. I have configured a
"NatNetwork" on VirtualBox which allows the VMs to connect to each other and the
internet. I was wondering if I can do similar thing with containers inside the
buster VM.

I used `debbootstrap' to have a template directory of buster under
"/opt/templates/buster". I then simply copy the directory tree over to
"/var/lib/machines". I tried a few networking options of `systemd-nspawn', but
since I am not well educated about macvlan, ipvlan, I could not get the
networking working at all. I would like to avoid using
"systemd-networkd/systemd-resolvd" especially on the Buster host - using those
it seems should make everything work automagically.

If it works then I will be able to test my Dovecot/Exim setup easily in such
throwaway containers. I currently do testing using VMs.

Does anyone have experience in having this kind of scenario working?



For testing purposes, I use in a Buster VM systemd-container.
That is if your VM has internet access the containers will also get
internet access .

For sake of simplicity, I would strongly suggest you to use in the VM
systemd-networkd to get the networking working between the containers
and the VM.

$ debootstrap --include=systemd-container

You need the above debootstrap pkg for systemd-networkd to work in the
container.

Then in the VM and in eatch container, simply enable systemd-networkd.


If you realy want to do the networking yourself, you will need to create
the bridge based on the examples found in '/lib/systemd/network'.

--
John Doe

Re: Suggestion for systemd and /usr on seperate partition

[David Wright]

On Wed 08 Jul 2020 at 00:41:12 (+1000), Andrew McGlashan wrote:
> On 2/11/14 8:58 am, Elimar Riesebieter wrote:
> > * David Baron  [2014-11-01 19:13 +0200]:
> >> On Friday 31 October 2014 13:08:27 Elimar Riesebieter wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> >>> It's your decision. MODULES=most should be okay. BUSYBOX=y is
> >>> essential.
> >>
> >> This is what the install gave me.  I have not touched it.
> >> Where do I tell it to mount /usr?
> > 
> > No need to. initramfs-tools does it by default. Check dmesg or
> > journal.
> 
> Still today, it fails to mount /usr if /usr is a logical volume using lvm2
> 
> I worked around that problem with an extra "activate" line in the following 
> file:
> 
>/usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/local-top/lvm2
> 
>activate "/dev/mapper/vg0-usr"
> 
> I placed that after the line to activate ROOT
> 
> So, still broken after all this time :(

Is this link worth a read?

https://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken/

BTW the first line of the thread is "completely without starting any flamewars:"

Cheers,
David.

Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 07 July 2020 11:32:04 David Wright wrote:

> On Tue 07 Jul 2020 at 10:06:08 (-0400), rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 07, 2020 09:57:54 AM Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > If you are the kind of person who MUST HAVE THE LATEST THING, then
> > > Debian is not meant for you.
> >
> > Wow, not sure what sparked that response,
>
> Probably the fact that there have been a lot of postings about testing
> recently, which seem to think testing is whatever they want it to be.
> For example, the thread on testing's imaginary "security policy".
>
> > but I will say one thing, you might
> > run testing if your bank insists you have the latest thing
> > (browser).
>
> Yeh, right. Use the suite that's lacking a security policy to carry
> out all your financial transactions. ?
>
> Cheers,
> David.

I'd tend to look at it like this: If the banks IT people think its a big 
enough risk to use the old version, and demands the new one even before 
the paint is dry, then it must be pretty serious and the distros should 
turn up the heat to get it out into the users hands asap. Not sit on it 
till the next release a year hence as seems to happen now, using the 
excuse that it is a new feature and that has to wait for the next 
chapter of the release cycle.

Unfortunately, the public is now so used to some so-called expert crying 
wolf when its a mongrel puppy, that they've gone to the dark side and 
are no longer making that noise in hopes the black hats will be slowed 
in exploiting the newly found vulnerability. So we are left in the 
dark. 'scuse me?

So we the users, are damned if we do, and damned if we don't.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[John Hasler]

rhkramer writes:
> but I will say one thing, you might run testing if your bank insists
> you have the latest thing (browser).

Get a browser from Backports.  Or use Chromium.  You're probably
allowing Google full access anyway.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[David Wright]

On Tue 07 Jul 2020 at 10:06:08 (-0400), rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 07, 2020 09:57:54 AM Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > If you are the kind of person who MUST HAVE THE LATEST THING, then
> > Debian is not meant for you.
> 
> Wow, not sure what sparked that response,

Probably the fact that there have been a lot of postings about testing
recently, which seem to think testing is whatever they want it to be.
For example, the thread on testing's imaginary "security policy".

> but I will say one thing, you might 
> run testing if your bank insists you have the latest thing (browser).

Yeh, right. Use the suite that's lacking a security policy to carry
out all your financial transactions. ?

Cheers,
David.

Re: Using .XCompose

[Ajith R]

 Hi,
From the above, it sounds to me that you are saying you would like a
*single* keypress to result in entry of the above geminate form. Do I
understand you correctly?Yes, perfectly.
And if so, are you setting aside the question of how to enter the
simple glyph

  ങ (U+0D19)

as an exercise for later?
No. I have achieved that already. I have defined a custom layout which seems to 
work ok. Among other lines, this line in the layout file is relevant to the 
character I am talking
 key   { [  U0D41, U0D19, U0D4E, U0D71] }; 

I lack expertise, but am interested.Your help is very much appreciated

So one change you could try, would be to replace
  
with
  
in the line above.
After reading your reply in another mail, I tried that; didn't work. I tried a 
composing example from the files in the link you provided but couldn't get 
composing to work (I have given the details in another mail). I suspect that I 
am missing something basic (I have named the file .XCompose and it is in my 
home folder). Should it have a particular start or end? To test composing, my 
.XCompose is just include "%L" 
   : "✄"   U2704 # WHITE SCISSORS
Thanks,ajith
On Tuesday, 7 July, 2020, 2:07:52 am IST, davidson  
wrote:  
 
 On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 davidson wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 06, 2020 at 05:34:59AM +, Ajith R wrote:
[snip]

>> I am trying to build a custom layout for my mother tongue Malayalam
>> (India, Kerala).
[snip]

>> The problem I am trying to tackle:
>> 
>> One of the Malayalam letters, ങ (U+0D19), is used much more commonly
>> in its geminate form which is composed of three unicode charcters
>>
>>  ങ  ്ങ (U+0D19 U+0D4D U+0D19)
>> 
>> which will yield the geminate form
>>
>>  ങ്ങ
>> 
>> So, when I type, I want the ങ to be replaced with ങ്ങ.
           ^ 

>From the above, it sounds to me that you are saying you would like a
*single* keypress to result in entry of the above geminate form. Do I
understand you correctly?

And if so, are you setting aside the question of how to enter the
simple glyph

  ങ (U+0D19)

as an exercise for later?

I am still working towards interpreting (1) what you've done so far,
(2) what exactly you want to achieve, and (3) figuring out how I'd
solve some similar problem.

I lack expertise, but am interested.

>> The keyboard layout is working fine as far as I can see. It does
>> yield the correct letters. What doesn't seem to work is the
>> .XCompose mechanism. Please tell me what I am missing.

Not sure yet. In the meantime, I have one trivial observation to make,
below.

>> Relevant part of my layout file /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/in
>> ---
>> partial alphanumeric_keys
>> xkb_symbols "mal_puthuniraA" {
>>      name[Group1] = "Malayalam (Puthu Nira Aarambham)";
>>      key.type="FOUR_LEVEL";
>>  key   { [  U0D41, U0D19, U0D4E, U0D71] }; //  ുMALAYALAM VOWEL 
>> SIGN U, ങ്ങ MALAYALAM LETTER NGA geminate form,  ൎMALAYALAM LETTER DOT REPH, 
>> ൱ MALAYALAM NUMBER ONE HUNDRED
>>  include "level3(ralt_switch)"
>> };
>> --
>> My .XCompose file in my home directory is
>> -
>> include "%L"
>>   : "ങ്ങ"

In XCompose(3), under FILE FORMAT, I read:

  "Keysyms are specified without the XK_ prefix."

So one change you could try, would be to replace

  

with

  

in the line above.

>>  : "ങ്ങ"
>> ങ : "ങ്ങ"
>> -
>> I found the name XK_Shift_L in keysymdef.h file. I tried the unicode 
>> character and its code as well to
>> identify the keypress. I tried with only one of the lines as well.
>> XCompose(3) — libx11-doc — Debian buster — Debian Manpages was consulted. I 
>> have tried restarting after
>> making changes which didn't help.
>> Am I referring to the keypress correctly? What am I missing?
>> Thanks for your help,
>> ajith
>>
>>                        XCompose(3) — libx11-doc — Debian buster — Debian 
>> Manpages

-- 
What do you want to take off? [hrzF or ?*] F
You were wearing a +0 robe.  The frost giant turns to flee.  

Re: Using .XCompose

[Ajith R]

 Hi,
I test it by typing the letter from the keyboard (using shift / without it 
based on the layout specification) from the same terminal (Konsole) that i use 
setxkbmap to change to my layout. Then I run another terminal using the desktop 
link and try tying it. Then I try in Kate. And finally I reboot and try in Kate 
again.ajith

On Tuesday, 7 July, 2020, 12:04:46 pm IST, davidson  
wrote:  
 
 On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 davidson wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 06, 2020 at 05:34:59AM +, Ajith R wrote:
[snip]

>> The problem I am trying to tackle:
>> 
>> One of the Malayalam letters, ങ (U+0D19), is used much more commonly
>> in its geminate form which is composed of three unicode charcters
>>
>>  ങ  ്ങ (U+0D19 U+0D4D U+0D19)
>> 
>> which will yield the geminate form
>>
>>  ങ്ങ
>> 
>> So, when I type, I want the ങ to be replaced with ങ്ങ.
>> 
>> The keyboard layout is working fine as far as I can see. It does
>> yield the correct letters. What doesn't seem to work is the
>> .XCompose mechanism.

One thing that would be helpful for us to know: How are you *testing*
whether the .XCompose mechanism "works"?

That is, after making changes to the ~/.XCompose file, what
applications do you use for testing? Do you use xterm?  Some other
terminal emulator?  Firefox? Several applications?  Which ones? Do
they all yield the same results?

>> Please tell me what I am missing.
[snip]

-- 
What do you want to take off? [hrzF or ?*] F
You were wearing a +0 robe.  The frost giant turns to flee.  

Re: Real bounces from debian-user

[David Wright]

On Mon 06 Jul 2020 at 22:10:10 (-0700), Will Mengarini wrote:
> TL;DR: How can I use *one* query (web or otherwise)
> to retrieve *all* my recently-bounced debian-user mail,
> or a list of URLs by which they can be retrieved?

Would subscribing to the digest (as well) help? I haven't checked what
arrives, but there are replies in debian-user that quote from it, and
it looks as if the message-id is included in each message. From each
digest, you can compile a list of message-id strings, and of course
the digests are numbered so you know whether you have all the digests.

If you find that Message-ID: <20200707051010.gb11...@eskimo.com>
is missing from your own received emails, you can fetch it with
 https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/20200707051010.gb11...@eskimo.com
or use whatever that trick was to email it to yourself.

Cheers,
David.

Re: Suggestion for systemd and /usr on seperate partition

[Andrew McGlashan]

On 2/11/14 8:58 am, Elimar Riesebieter wrote:
> * David Baron  [2014-11-01 19:13 +0200]:
> 
>> On Friday 31 October 2014 13:08:27 Elimar Riesebieter wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
>>> It's your decision. MODULES=most should be okay. BUSYBOX=y is
>>> essential.
>>
>> This is what the install gave me.  I have not touched it.
>> Where do I tell it to mount /usr?
> 
> No need to. initramfs-tools does it by default. Check dmesg or
> journal.

Still today, it fails to mount /usr if /usr is a logical volume using lvm2


I worked around that problem with an extra "activate" line in the following 
file:

   /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/local-top/lvm2

   activate "/dev/mapper/vg0-usr"


I placed that after the line to activate ROOT

So, still broken after all this time :(



# dpkg-query -l |grep initramfs
ii  initramfs-tools0.133+deb10u1  
all  generic modular initramfs generator (automation)
ii  initramfs-tools-core   0.133+deb10u1  
all  generic modular initramfs generator (core tools)
ii  libklibc:amd64 2.0.6-1
amd64minimal libc subset for use with initramfs



# aptitude show initramfs-tools initramfs-tools-core
Wed  8 Jul 00:40:15 AEST 2020 -- show initramfs-tools initramfs-tools-core
Package: initramfs-tools
Version: 0.133+deb10u1
State: installed
Automatically installed: no
Multi-Arch: foreign
Priority: optional
Section: utils
Maintainer: Debian kernel team 
Architecture: all
Uncompressed Size: 114 k
Depends: initramfs-tools-core (= 0.133+deb10u1), linux-base
Suggests: bash-completion
Conflicts: linux-initramfs-tool, usplash (< 0.5.50)
Breaks: e2fsprogs (< 1.42.13), initscripts (< 2.88dsf-59.3~), upstart
Provides: linux-initramfs-tool
Description: generic modular initramfs generator (automation)

Tags: admin::boot, admin::filesystem, admin::install, admin::kernel, 
devel::lang:c, devel::library, implemented-in::c, implemented-in::shell, 
interface::commandline,
role::devel-lib, role::program, scope::application, scope::utility, 
works-with::archive

Package: initramfs-tools-core
Version: 0.133+deb10u1
New: yes
State: installed
Automatically installed: yes
Multi-Arch: foreign
Priority: optional
Section: utils
Maintainer: Debian kernel team 
Architecture: all
Uncompressed Size: 213 k
Depends: klibc-utils (>= 2.0.4-8~), cpio (>= 2.12), kmod, udev, coreutils (>= 
8.24), e2fsprogs
Recommends: busybox (>= 1:1.22.0-17~) | busybox-static (>= 1:1.22.0-17~), pigz
Suggests: bash-completion
Breaks: busybox (< 1:1.22.0-17~), busybox-static (< 1:1.22.0-17~), 
initramfs-tools (< 0.121~)
Replaces: initramfs-tools (< 0.121~)
Description: generic modular initramfs generator (core tools)



This is a system now running Devuan Beowulf btw, but it gets most of it's 
packages directly from Debian repos.


A.





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Re: Real bounces from debian-user

[Kushal Kumaran]

"Will Mengarini"  writes:

> TL;DR: How can I use *one* query (web or otherwise)
> to retrieve *all* my recently-bounced debian-user mail,
> or a list of URLs by which they can be retrieved?
>

I don't know if this would be too radical a change, but you can also use
a news reader to access the mailing lists.  The wiki link you sent
mentions the linux.debian.* heirarchy.  Since this works by your NNTP
client reaching out to the server to fetch messages, that eliminates any
bounces.

You can configure your news client to send messages by email to the
regular debian-user email address

> DETAILS:
>
> In the past 3 months I've averaged about 5 messages monthly
> saying "lists.debian.org has received bounces from you".
> These don't tell me WHICH messages bounced, only HOW MANY.
> They contain a link to retrieve only the most recent bounce.
>
> I've read https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMailingLists/,
> and know how to retrieve individual messages from
> , though I didn't notice
> documentation saying whether that includes Resent-Message-ID.
>
> But none of that suffices to fix broken threads without laboriously
> searching the archives.  I'd need to code a hairy script to:
>   - Enumerate recently received debian-user messages in my inbox,
> saving Resent-Message-ID if supported, else Message-ID,
> as well as author name in a form recognizable on web rendering
> (which might require decoding) (because a full archive list shows
> authors and subjects, but neither kind of message ID).
>   - Use archives to count messages from each author.
> (Subjects can change during threads, so just add complexity.)
>   - FOR AUTHORS WHOSE MESSAGE COUNTS DON'T MATCH, RETRIEVE
> EACH OF THEIR FULL MESSAGES JUST TO GET MESSAGE-ID!
>   - Compare all retrieved messages' Message-ID headers to those I'd
> enumerated from my inbox to see what's missing.
>   - For each missing message, mail it to myself, using mutt -H to
> strip web cruft (says the wiki - haven't tried it).
> Gleep!
>
> Is there a simpler solution to this problem?
>
> If bounce messages included links for *all* bounces, instead of just
> the most recent, they would suffice; a much simpler script could
> retrieve each message and mail it to me.
>
> If there's some URL that can retrieve a list of *all* recent bounces for
> a user, that'd suffice as well; any "you got bounces" messages would
> take one hit to the my-bounces URL, then one hit for each message.
>
> If there's some URL that can say "retry all my recent bounces
> again now", that'd be best; most often these messages result
> from problems my ISP is having with hardware instability of
> specific {leading or bleeding}-edge kernels on new servers, and
> by the time I start getting mail again, the problem has been
> fixed with a new kernel, so asking for all my retries would work.
>
> If this has to be coped with from luser-land, it probably needs that
> hairy script I described at the beginning.  Has anybody implemented
> anything similar, or any useful parts of that solution?
>
> But solutions from list admins would be better, because
> they'd entail much less web traffic to cope with unavoidable
> bounces.  How hard would it be for you-got-bounces messages
> to include links for all (or some reasonable number) of
> the bounced messages, or to include a link returning all
> bounces as attachments, or as one attachment in mbox format?
>
> How hard would it be for an alternative archive listing to
> include message IDs or URLs that could be directly compared
> with mail headers to identify missing messages?  I see that
> individual messages are fully retrievable with the List-Archive
> link, but comparing those with messages in the existing archive
> listings (e.g )
> seems unnecessarily difficult.  I did think to look at the
> source of that HTML, where I see nice stuff like name="00231"
> href="msg00231.html"; but I don't know how to translate from the
> List-Archive header to the sequence number for a particular month.
>
> For example, headers in the original mailing list (i.e SMTP) version
> of  have
> 
> List-Archive: 
> https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/20200706222029.gs29...@randomstring.org
> Message-ID: <20200706222029.gs29...@randomstring.org>
> Resent-Message-ID: <7G4bOlRoN4O.A.hbB.6O6AfB@bendel>
> X-Mailing-List:  archive/latest/764776
> Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2020 18:20:29 -0400
> From: Dan Ritter 
> Subject: Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed
> 
> but the Message-ID is from randomstring.org, and though it
> begins with a date, the following 222029.$blurf doesn't have any
> relationship to Debian data; and the only valid hex string in
> the Resent-Message-ID is "A", which seems unlikely to help.  I
> didn't try base 36, because FML; was that a mistake?  Note that
> 

Re: How To Permanently Add-to a Users PATH Statement in the Bash Shell

[Nicolas George]

Jonathan Dowland (12020-07-07):
> Not in the default PATH either.

No, but probably one of the first things anybody who has non-elementary
use will have configured anyway.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: How To Permanently Add-to a Users PATH Statement in the Bash Shell

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 03:17:37PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 04:14:16PM +0200, Nicolas George wrote:
> > cd ~/bin
> > ln -s ../opt/something/bin/something
> 
> Not in the default PATH either.

$HOME/bin is placed into the user's default PATH by Debian's ~/.profile
(the one in /etc/skel/.profile) if it exists at the time the ~/.profile
is read, if the ~/.profile is read at all.

As I keep saying, of course, what dot files actually get read depends
on how one logs in.

Re: .Xresources for xless

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 10:07:35AM -0400, Bob Bernstein wrote:
> Running up-to-date Buster here, amd64:
> Linux debian.localdomain 4.19.0-8-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.98-1+deb10u1
> (2020-04-27) x86_64 GNU/Linux
> 
> I have moved to a display manager (wmd), so is my xrdb ~/.Xresources line
> (xrdb ~/.Xresources) in .xinitrc being called into the loop, so to speak?

You can use "xrdb -query" to find out.

In general, I would *not* expect ~/.xinitrc to be used by a display
manager login.  Even when you were presumably using startx, you were
supposed to have moved the ~/.xinitrc to ~/.xsession decades ago.

The ~/.xsession file is used by traditional display manager logins (xdm)
as well as by Debian's startx.

Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 10:06:08AM -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 07, 2020 09:57:54 AM Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > If you are the kind of person who MUST HAVE THE LATEST THING, then
> > Debian is not meant for you.
> 
> Wow, not sure what sparked that response, but I will say one thing, you might 
> run testing if your bank insists you have the latest thing (browser).

Well, you could switch banks.

Or, you could install the unstable upstream Firefox releases from
mozilla.com or whatever it's called this year.  And have fun playing
"what broke this week".

Personally, I find it hard to believe your statement about a bank
requiring a *new* web browser to work.  I would be more likely to believe
"My bank requires that I use an incredibly *old* browser version."
Or even "My bank only works with Microsoft Internet Explorer."

Re: How To Permanently Add-to a Users PATH Statement in the Bash Shell

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 04:14:16PM +0200, Nicolas George wrote:

cd ~/bin
ln -s ../opt/something/bin/something


Not in the default PATH either.


--
  Jonathan Dowland
✎j...@debian.org
   https://jmtd.net

Re: How To Permanently Add-to a Users PATH Statement in the Bash Shell

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 09:57:34AM -0400, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> The Subject line is the problem

Yeah.  The Subject: line reveals the problem: you believe that PATH is
set primarily by your shell.

It's not.  It's set primarily by your method of login, and then by your
session tools, whether those be a shell or a desktop environment.  A
shell may have the final word in some setups, but in many cases,
most of your environment is set before a shell is even executed.

> with my Debian Buster platform. Now from
> Google I see that there has been a change in the way Debian handles this
> problem.

Huh?  What did you type into Google?  What random page on the entire
freaking Internet did you read?  What did you pick up from it?  Is it
true or a lie?

> [[blah blah blah nothing about how you log in]]

> This works unless I open a new Terminal, in which case it is no longer in
> the PATH.

The only detail you've given us is that you have something you call
a "Terminal", with a capital T.  Is that the actual name of the
terminal emulator you run?  Maybe someone else who reads this message
can figure out "Oh, he said Terminal with a capital T, that must mean
he's running  Desktop."

If you actually want to understand how your environment is set during
login, you have to reveal the necessary details, and that starts with
*HOW* you log in (console login + startx, gdm3, sddm, lightdm, ssh,
or something else).

We also need to know if you run a Desktop Environment, and if so, which
one.

On top of that, it would be useful to know what terminal emulator you're
using to *TRY* to verify the PATH variable, and what options were given
to it.  Believe it or not, the PATH variable you see in a terminal emulator
may not be the same as the one used by your window manager, etc.

Gods, I am so tired of this question and having to repeat my demands
for BASIC information over and over.

Here are some resources for those of you who refuse to reveal any of
the necessary background information to get answers, and would rather
hoard all of your details under the guise of "privacy" or whatever.

https://wiki.debian.org/Xsession
https://wiki.debian.org/EnvironmentVariables
https://mywiki.wooledge.org/DotFiles

That is nowhere NEAR a comprehensive overveiw of every possible piece
of every possible configuration, but it's a starting point.

Re: How To Permanently Add-to a Users PATH Statement in the Bash Shell

[Nicolas George]

Roberto C. Sánchez (12020-07-07):
> You should add the export command to ~/.bashrc (for it to only be in
> effect for that user)

Except ~/.bashrc is only sourced for interactive shells, it will not be
run when applications are executed by a GUI, for example.

(Also, for some reason, the bash authors thought it was a good idea to
have login interactive shells not run ~/.bashrc; better use a saner
shell and put the environment in ~/.zshenv, which is sourced by all
shells.)

But adding the application bin directory to the $PATH environment is
entirely the wrong way of going at it. It results in huge $PATH, which
increase the cost of running everything and makes the system more
fragile. The right way of going at it is to make the application entry
points appear in the directories that are already in $PATH.

cd ~/bin
ln -s ../opt/something/bin/something

(relative paths are to be preferred in these cases)

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


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.Xresources for xless

[Bob Bernstein]

Running up-to-date Buster here, amd64:
Linux debian.localdomain 4.19.0-8-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 
4.19.98-1+deb10u1 (2020-04-27) x86_64 GNU/Linux


I have moved to a display manager (wmd), so is my xrdb 
~/.Xresources line (xrdb ~/.Xresources) in .xinitrc being called 
into the loop, so to speak?


Or is there another location for that data that is more 
wmd-friendly?


Also, if someone could share an xless .Xresources line I would 
be very grateful. Is that /etc/X11/app-defaults/XLess file doing 
me any good?


Sorry to be all over the court here. I am an older um gentleman, 
and I am on a lot of medication right now, with only a little 
bit of that for psych issues!


Thank you.

--
 A test of right and wrong must be the means, one would
 think, of ascertaining what is right or wrong, and not a
 consequence of having already ascertained it.

  J. S. Mill

Re: How To Permanently Add-to a Users PATH Statement in the Bash Shell

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 09:57:34AM -0400, Stephen P. Molnar wrote:
> The Subject line is the problem with my Debian Buster platform. Now from
> Google I see that there has been a change in the way Debian handles this
> problem.
> 
I'm not sure what change you are referring to, but from what you
describe below I find it unlikely that anything has changed in the
observed behavior.

> My user path statement is:
> 
> comp@AbNormal:~$ echo $PATH
> /usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games
> 
> Now I have a number of applications that have multiple executable in the app
> /bin subdirectory. Hence the need to add to the users PATH statement
> 
> As an example I have:
> 
> /home/comp/Apps/ADFRsuite-1.0/bin
> 
> which I would like to add to the PATH statement and:
> 
> export PATH=$PATH:'/home/comp/Apps/ADFRsuite-1.0/bin'
> 
> This works unless I open a new Terminal, in which case it is no longer in
> the PATH.
> 
Opening a new terminal spawns a new process.  If the parent of the new
process is not the shell in which you executed the 'export' command,
then when the PATH variable is set based on the system and user
configuration files it will lack the additional value from the 'export'.

> How do I make the addition persistent?
> 
You should add the export command to ~/.bashrc (for it to only be in
effect for that user) or to /etc/bash.bashrc (for it to be in effect for
all users on the system).

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[rhkramer]

On Tuesday, July 07, 2020 09:57:54 AM Greg Wooledge wrote:
> If you are the kind of person who MUST HAVE THE LATEST THING, then
> Debian is not meant for you.

Wow, not sure what sparked that response, but I will say one thing, you might 
run testing if your bank insists you have the latest thing (browser).

Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 09:45:56AM -0400, Gary Dale wrote:
> I did install it and it is a single package. It runs fine in parallel with
> the esr release. Hopefully the maintainers will continue the practice of
> having firefox and firefox_esr available and bring it to Testing.

You don't understand what testing *IS*!

Testing is not a "rolling release".

Testing is not a thing you use because it makes you cooler.

Testing is not a thing you use because it has higher version numbers of
packages, and the sum of all the package version numbers is your score,
and having a higher score makes you win the game.

Testing is not a thing you use because you're an immature child who thinks
any package more than a year old is, like, TOO OLD TO BE USED BY ANYONE,
like ohmygod.

Testing is the NEXT STABLE RELEASE.

Testing is what will become Debian 11, bullseye, in a year or two.

When bullseye is stable, it will not have an unstable firefox package.

When bullseye is stable, it will have firefox-esr, which is a stable
package (or as close as you can get with a browser), because it is a
stable release.

Therefore, testing has firefox-esr.

You run testing because you want to help TEST THE NEXT STABLE RELEASE,
so that you can find bugs in it and report them, and get them fixed
before the release.

Because they sure as hell will not be fixed AFTER the release.  This is
your one and only chance.

If you are the kind of person who MUST HAVE THE LATEST THING, then
Debian is not meant for you.

This includes browsers.

How To Permanently Add-to a Users PATH Statement in the Bash Shell

[Stephen P. Molnar]

The Subject line is the problem with my Debian Buster platform. Now from 
Google I see that there has been a change in the way Debian handles this 
problem.


My user path statement is:

comp@AbNormal:~$ echo $PATH
/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games

Now I have a number of applications that have multiple executable in the 
app /bin subdirectory. Hence the need to add to the users PATH statement


As an example I have:

/home/comp/Apps/ADFRsuite-1.0/bin

which I would like to add to the PATH statement and:

export PATH=$PATH:'/home/comp/Apps/ADFRsuite-1.0/bin'

This works unless I open a new Terminal, in which case it is no longer 
in the PATH.


How do I make the addition persistent?

Thanks in advance.

--
Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D.
www.molecular-modeling.net
614.312.7528 (c)
Skype:  smolnar1

Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[Gary Dale]

On 2020-07-07 02:55, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

On Lu, 06 iul 20, 23:33:46, Gary Dale wrote:

On 2020-07-06 20:00, Bob Weber wrote:

Firefox 78 is in unstable.  I run testing but I occasionally pick up
things in unstable if they don't mess up testing like firefox.  I have
used it for a while mainly watching Netflix and for other sites that
don't like Chrome beta (banking mostly).



Perfect. It's not labelled as esr so hopefully it won't interfere with the
esr package.

APT/dpkg can install packages side-by-side that don't have the same name
(as is the case with 'firefox' and 'firefox-esr').

What those package will do to your user files (your profile in this
case) is a completely different matter...

Kind regards,
Andrei


I did install it and it is a single package. It runs fine in parallel 
with the esr release. Hopefully the maintainers will continue the 
practice of having firefox and firefox_esr available and bring it to 
Testing.


On my original reason for wanting to try it, it has the same display 
issues as firefox_esr when used in Responsive Design Mode. Interesting 
Chrome on my antique smart phone has the same problem but Chromium 
doesn't when I use it's "Developer Tools".

systemd-nspawn networking inside VirtualBox VM

[Didar Hossain]

Hi,

TL;DR
How to get systemd-nspawn containers networking so that they can talk to each
other, the host and the internet inside a Buster VM? VirtualBox on Windows 10
which has internet connectivity via a wireless interface.



I am running a Buster VM with hand picked minimal packages, networking is
configured simply using interfaces(5) file with DHCP. I have configured a
"NatNetwork" on VirtualBox which allows the VMs to connect to each other and the
internet. I was wondering if I can do similar thing with containers inside the
buster VM.

I used `debbootstrap' to have a template directory of buster under
"/opt/templates/buster". I then simply copy the directory tree over to
"/var/lib/machines". I tried a few networking options of `systemd-nspawn', but
since I am not well educated about macvlan, ipvlan, I could not get the
networking working at all. I would like to avoid using
"systemd-networkd/systemd-resolvd" especially on the Buster host - using those
it seems should make everything work automagically.

If it works then I will be able to test my Dovecot/Exim setup easily in such
throwaway containers. I currently do testing using VMs.

Does anyone have experience in having this kind of scenario working?

Regards,
Didar

-- 
Baby On Board.

Re: Dúvida com ITP para novos pacotes

[Daniel Lenharo]

Olá

Em 07/07/2020 01:41, Leandro Cunha escreveu:
> Olá,
>
> Bom saber disso que direciono dúvidas sobre empacotamento para essa lista, ela
> anda parada a devel em Português. Eu acessei ela semana passada, até o momento
> que acessei não tinha nenhum e-mail lá desse mês. Já no mês anterior foi um 
> pouco utilizada.
> 


Conforme foi dito nos e-mails anteriores, a lista adequada em português para 
tirar dúvidas sobre empacotamento, é a debian-devel-portuguese.

[]'s

-- 
Daniel Lenharo de Souza
GPG: 31D8 0509 460E FB31 DF4B
 9629 FB0E 132D DB0A A5B1



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Re: Using .XCompose

[Greg Wooledge]

On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 09:44:38AM +, Ajith R wrote:
> I copied one line from your keyboard configuration file and  my keyboard file 
> looks like this now :# KEYBOARD CONFIGURATION FILE
> 
> XKBMODEL="pc105"
> XKBLAYOUT="in"
> XKBVARIANT="eng"
> XKBOPTIONS="lv3:ralt_switch,compose:caps,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
> 
> BACKSPACE="guess"
> 
> and my .XCompose file now is 
> include "%L" 
>    : "✄"   U2704 # WHITE SCISSORS
> 
> However, when I press Caps Lock followed by s and then x or if I keep the 
> Caps Lock pressed while I press s and x in sequence, I don't get scissors. I 
> get S and X

I have no experience with modifying /etc/default/keyboard.
Does your Caps Lock key work for Compose if you set it with:

xmodmap -e "keysym Caps_Lock = Multi_key"

Also, as mentioned before, please make sure you open a new terminal
(or other X11 application) after modifying your .XCompose file.  That
file is only read when libx11 initializes during the start of a new
client application.

Re: HP z820 workstation Soundcard?

[Dan Ritter]

Peter Ehlert wrote: 
> running a HP z820 workstation, Buster Mate.
> onboard sound does not cut it.
> 
> I need more volume, and 5.1 stereo would be great

What are you planning on connecting the 5.1 audio to?

Yes, this is relevant.

-dsr-

Re: Using .XCompose

[Ajith R]

 Hi David,
Thanks for your reply.I presume XCompose(3) is a typo for 5, the file 
format section.
There you will find that you don't use the XK_ prefix here.
I was looking at XCompose(3). Thanks for pointing out the mistake.

As I understand .XCompose, it is designed for "compositing", so each
key on the left side should be a "normal" keystroke. Typically the
LeftShift modifies the letter keys: in English, it makes "a" into "A".
So you wouldn't want to use it in a compositing sequence because you
would lose its normal shift function.I understand that. My letter is in the 
'shift' set of keystrokes. That was the reason I included it. Moreover, the 
Compose manual page states that 
'Each event consists of a specified input keysym, and optional modifier states:
[([!] ([~] MODIFIER)...) | None] ". '

I was just trying to find out the reason why the 'composting' was not working. 
I tried including the modifier name and also without it. I tried moving the key 
to the first layer of keyboard layout (without shift or other modifiers). Even 
that was not working. So, I was wondering if there was a syntax error in the 
way I was specifying my requirement. I understand the use of Compose key. But, 
I was not trying the usual 'composting' (by means of a compose key). I  want 
one character to be replaced with its geminate form whenever it is typed. If 
the keyboard layout specification allowed more than one character for a 
keystroke, I wouldn't have needed it. Hence the need for Compose mechanism. A 
similar approach is explained here https://dominiko.livejournal.com/20206.html 
. However in it, the author has defined a personal use Unicode character, but I 
use one of the Unicode defined characters. In the symbol file, he had used key 
 { type[group1] = "FOUR_LEVEL_C_HWERTY", 
    [    UF8FD,  UF8FE,   UF8FF,    
Greek_alpha ] };
I didn't understand the use of type[group1 = "..."], but thought that it was 
not essential. Anyway, the layout is working as expected in that the characters 
returned by layout is as defined. 
The compose mechanism is not working.
I copied one line from your keyboard configuration file and  my keyboard file 
looks like this now :# KEYBOARD CONFIGURATION FILE

XKBMODEL="pc105"
XKBLAYOUT="in"
XKBVARIANT="eng"
XKBOPTIONS="lv3:ralt_switch,compose:caps,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"

BACKSPACE="guess"

and my .XCompose file now is 
include "%L" 
   : "✄"   U2704 # WHITE SCISSORS

However, when I press Caps Lock followed by s and then x or if I keep the Caps 
Lock pressed while I press s and x in sequence, I don't get scissors. I get S 
and X

So, my computer's  compose mechanism is not working. Is there something wrong 
in what I am doing or am I missing something? Other than creating the .XCompose 
file in the home folder, should I tell the system in some way that the compose 
mechanism should be activated? (BTW, I tried restarting the computer after the 
change).

I am running Debian 10, KDE Plasma  5.14.5, 64 bit

Thanks,ajith
On Tuesday, 7 July, 2020, 4:00:50 am IST, David Wright 
 wrote:  
 
 On Mon 06 Jul 2020 at 05:34:59 (+), Ajith R wrote:

> My .XCompose file in my home directory is-include "%L" 
>   : "ങ്ങ"
>  : "ങ്ങ"
> ങ : "ങ്ങ"-
> I found the name XK_Shift_L in keysymdef.h file. I tried the unicode 
> character and its code as well to identify the keypress. I tried with only 
> one of the lines as well. XCompose(3) — libx11-doc — Debian buster — Debian 
> Manpages was consulted. I have tried restarting after making changes which 
> didn't help. 
> Am I referring to the keypress correctly? What am I missing?

I presume XCompose(3) is a typo for 5, the file format section.
There you will find that you don't use the XK_ prefix here.

As I understand .XCompose, it is designed for "compositing", so each
key on the left side should be a "normal" keystroke. Typically the
LeftShift modifies the letter keys: in English, it makes "a" into "A".
So you wouldn't want to use it in a compositing sequence because you
would lose its normal shift function.

Usually you select a "Compose" key, and that is used here under the name
 in .XCompose, and in the system's Compose file,
/usr/share/X11/locale/…/Compose where … is a locale's name.
Mine, for example, is CapsLock, because I don't make a habit of typing
in All Caps. That is set in /etc/default/keyboard:
XKBOPTIONS="lv3:ralt_switch,compose:caps,terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp"
                            

If you peruse your own system's /usr/share/X11/locale/…/Compose file,
which is the one being included by your "%L" above, you'll get an idea
of the best keys to use. I believe many European languages use the
"dead" keys a lot, but because British doesn't, I don't know how those
work. A European might like to comment on this.

In case it's any help, I posted some keyboard configuration files
last year at:

Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[tomas]

On Mon, Jul 06, 2020 at 11:26:32PM -0400, Gary Dale wrote:

[...]

> >You're not disallowed from installing Firefox from Mozilla, it's
> >just not packaged because [... stable ...]

> Not disallowed but not exactly allowed.

By whom?

Cheers
-- t


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Re: debsecan does not report a vulnerability?

[Victor Sudakov]

Victor Sudakov wrote:
> 
> There is something about debsecan I don't understand, can you please clarify 
> for me?


After reading your replies and the Debian security advisories, I made up
my mind that I probably just want to now if new versions of packages are
available in the repos. Perhaps it's the best thing I can do about
vulnerabilities. 

So I wrote the following UserParameter for the Zabbix agent, and I think
I've found it useful already:

# Number of upgradable packages
UserParameter=packages.upgradeable,if [ -x /usr/bin/apt-get ] ; then 
/usr/bin/apt-get upgrade -s | grep -c '^Inst' ; elif [ -x /usr/bin/yum ] ; then 
/usr/bin/yum check-update | grep -c 'updates$'; else echo "1" ; fi

It does not require any extra utilities to estimate the number of
upgradeable packages.


-- 
Victor Sudakov,  VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN
2:5005/49@fidonet http://vas.tomsk.ru/


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Re: How do I get the mbr package to do its job quietly?

[Gerald]

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On Thursday 08 April 2010 10:38:11 pm 
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Stephen Powell wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Apr 2010 14:10:49 -0400 (EDT), Gerald wrote:
> > Stephen, How about MBRWORK.
> > This little program runs from a floppy or pehaps fron a CD.
> > I have found it very useful
> 
> Gerald, you replied to me personally instead of the list.
> Please reply to the list.
> 
> There is no Debian package that I could find called mbrwork.
> I even did an "apt-cache search mbrwork" and got no hits.
Sorry for that,
MBRWORK is a stand alone package.
A Google search should find it.
Gerald


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Re: Swappiness in Buster

[Martin Reissner]

On 06/07/2020 23:27, deloptes wrote:

> May be look deeper in documentation - I recall asking few years ago and was
> answered that now it would cache whatever it can and will free on demand.
> swap is done only if memory is really insufficient.
> 
> I don't recall when or where I asked read this
> 

I probably wouldn't understand much delving deeper into the
documentation or even code^^
Using up all the available RAM for disk cache and freeing cache when
memory is needed is what Linux did for as long as I can remember and
still does.
Swapping being only done when there is no memory available is exactly
what the "swappiness" parameter did when set to "1" in Stretch, but this
doesn't seem to work in Buster anymore as it swaps out the diskcache
even when there is memory available.

Re: HP z820 workstation Soundcard?

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Lu, 06 iul 20, 15:52:32, Peter Ehlert wrote:
> running a HP z820 workstation, Buster Mate.
> onboard sound does not cut it.
> 
> I need more volume, and 5.1 stereo would be great
> 
> I have a couple free PCIe slots
> 
> What sage advice can I get here?
> 
> Internal vs USB
> Brand?
> budget is modest, I tell myself under $100

To get useful recommendations you might want to say more about the audio 
sources (including file types, quality, etc.) the rest of your audio 
setup (especially connection options), expectations in sound quality, 
etc.

E.g. an external device has less interference from the rest of the 
computer. This will hardly matter if your audio setup can't reproduce 
that or you can't tell the difference (I probably can't).

In any case, a device with a hardware mixer allows more flexibility in 
playing audio from several sources without relying on pulseaudio or 
ALSA's dmix.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: Firefox non-ESR update needed

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Lu, 06 iul 20, 23:33:46, Gary Dale wrote:
> On 2020-07-06 20:00, Bob Weber wrote:
> > 
> > Firefox 78 is in unstable.  I run testing but I occasionally pick up
> > things in unstable if they don't mess up testing like firefox.  I have
> > used it for a while mainly watching Netflix and for other sites that
> > don't like Chrome beta (banking mostly).
> > 
> > 
> Perfect. It's not labelled as esr so hopefully it won't interfere with the
> esr package.

APT/dpkg can install packages side-by-side that don't have the same name 
(as is the case with 'firefox' and 'firefox-esr').

What those package will do to your user files (your profile in this 
case) is a completely different matter...

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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