Re: Replacement Email Client

[Teemu Likonen]

* 2020-10-24 16:04:00-07, Patrick Bartek wrote:

> Looking for recommendations for a lightweight email client that will
> handle HTML as well as plain text to replace Claws-Mail.  Have been
> using Claws-Mail for years and before it Sylpheed.

GNU Emacs mail clients "Gnus" and "Notmuch Emacs" automatically render
HTML mail nicely as plain text. User can can also open HTML and other
MIME parts in external viewer like web browser.

-- 
/// Teemu Likonen - .-.. https://www.iki.fi/tlikonen/
// OpenPGP: 4E1055DC84E9DFF613D78557719D69D324539450


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Error making another file manager the preferred app

[kaye n]

Hello Friends!

Firstly, if it matters, my system is:

Kernel: 4.19.0-6-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 Desktop: Xfce 4.12.4
Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)
Machine:
  Type: Desktop Mobo: MSI model: H81M-P33 (MS-7817) v: 1.0 serial: N/A
  BIOS: American Megatrends v: 1.9 date: 03/30/2015
CPU:
  Dual Core: Intel Core i3-4130 type: MT MCP speed: 800 MHz
  min/max: 800/3400 MHz

I installed Spacefm file manager thru Synaptic because I prefer it over
Thunar.  For those who may be curious as to why, Spacefm has a very useful
feature that is similar to the command :

ls *anycharacter*

I went to Menu -> Settings -> Preferred Applications -> Utilities tab ->
File Manager -> dropdown list - Other... -> choose /usr/bin/spacefm-auth
"%s"

If I click Menu on the taskbar and click File Manager, it SHOULD open
Spacefm, but I get this error message instead:
Failed to execute default File Manager. Input/output error.

Not a big deal really, but it would be nice to make it work.

Thank you for your time.
kaye

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Oliver Schoede]

On Sat, 24 Oct 2020 16:04:00 -0700
Patrick Bartek  wrote:

>
>Looking for recommendations for a lightweight email client that will
>handle HTML as well as plain text to replace Claws-Mail.  Have been
>using Claws-Mail for years and before it Sylpheed.  Claws used to have
>a basic HTML plugin renderer which was sufficient, but latest version
>does not.

I didn't even know it was gone, but apparently 3.17.7 just
(re)introduced a light viewer duly taking care of people who need it.
LiteHTML. It's packaged as claws-mail-litehtml-viewer, can't say if
it's any good, there are other options though. Even something
based on Dillo! ;) Not bad for a project with a different set of
priorities. Don't like a plugin? Feeling more like using behemoth
Firefox ('hate accessing mail through a browser'):

Config -> Preferences -> Message View -> External Programs

Not really a new feature either nor scratching CM's surface, but you
surely knew that too. I'm a CLI/TUI/oldskool devotee myself yet Mutt is
one of those things I never got around learning. Takes some time. Only
to fire up FF whenever you want to see a picture. Well I guess people
are different and some always have a browser flinging around anyway. See
what works for you.


Oliver

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Mark Allums]

Both Thunderbird and Balsa have been rejected as T'bird is a behemoth
and no longer in development;
Thunderbird has been spun off from Mozilla, and is actively being 
developed.  The thing is still pretty fat, but they recently added 
support for PGP/GPG encryption built-in.  I wouldn't outright dismiss it 
as a possibility.



Mark

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 24 October 2020 19:04:00 Patrick Bartek wrote:

> Hi! All,
>
> Looking for recommendations for a lightweight email client that will
> handle HTML as well as plain text to replace Claws-Mail.  Have been
> using Claws-Mail for years and before it Sylpheed.  Claws used to have
> a basic HTML plugin renderer which was sufficient, but latest version
> does not. And I'm getting more and more important emails in HTML where
> just the plain text is insufficient to fully read the email.  That is,
> text in (or as) images contain some (or much) of the content, etc.
> Also, hate accessing email through a browser. So that option is out.
>
> Both Thunderbird and Balsa have been rejected as T'bird is a behemoth
> and no longer in development; and with Balsa, I don't want to have to
> deal with GNOME-systemd, etc. dependencies. (I don't run GNOME anyway,
> only a window manager Openbox, and use sysvinit and not systemd as
> init.)
>
> Any suggestions?
>
Yes, kmail, as supplied NOT from KDE but from TDE. Its the older kmail 
with all but one bug fixed that KDE never fixed.  That "bug" is the 
number of messages it can store in a given maildir folder has the signed 
32 bit limit or 32766 messages.  On a busy mailing list, it can exceed 
that number of messages in a year, but I've been renaming the folders to 
a subdir incorporating the year for the last 2 years and have had no 
further problems.  Some of my busy and more valuable folders go back to 
2002.

TDE is itself a fork of KDE-3.5, and is still under quite active 
development, yet dead stable. But don't be surprised if you've not 
updated for a week or so, to see synaptic pull in 100 or more updated 
packages if you have the whole R14 release installed. But did I mention 
stable?, this machine, while being kept up to date with all that churn, 
still has a current uptime of 81 days and counting. But I'll not 
recommend it on smaller machines, this is an Asus X370 mainboard with a 
6 core i5, and 32 gigs of ram.

I am running TDE on two machines out of 5 here, the other machine is much 
less well endowed, only a 60GB SSD, and only 2GB of dram. It runs just 
fine but it only has one real job, running a 4 axis milling machine in 
real time.  That it does very well. But it doesn't have a UPS so its 
uptime is about 19 hours as we had a 2 second or less power failure at 
2:30 AM this morning that rebooted the 3 w/o a UPS. Not long enough to 
auto-start my 20kw generator.

> Thanks
>
> B


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Leslie Rhorer]

On 10/24/2020 6:04 PM, Patrick Bartek wrote:


Hi! All,

Looking for recommendations for a lightweight email client that will
handle HTML as well as plain text


I want to know that, myself.


deal with GNOME-systemd, etc. dependencies. (I don't run GNOME anyway,
only a window manager Openbox, and use sysvinit and not systemd as


	I don't run Gnome, either, but I did take the plunge and learn enough 
about systemd to get along.  I still don't like it, and it remains a 
very obtuse system designed to do things that fail to impress me.  It 
seems it may be inevitable to become universal.  

Re: Replacement Email Client

[Dan Ritter]

Patrick Bartek wrote: 
> 
> Hi! All,
> 
> Looking for recommendations for a lightweight email client that will
> handle HTML as well as plain text to replace Claws-Mail.  Have been
> using Claws-Mail for years and before it Sylpheed.  Claws used to have
> a basic HTML plugin renderer which was sufficient, but latest version
> does not. And I'm getting more and more important emails in HTML where
> just the plain text is insufficient to fully read the email.  That is,
> text in (or as) images contain some (or much) of the content, etc.
> Also, hate accessing email through a browser. So that option is out.
> 
> Both Thunderbird and Balsa have been rejected as T'bird is a behemoth
> and no longer in development; and with Balsa, I don't want to have to
> deal with GNOME-systemd, etc. dependencies. (I don't run GNOME anyway,
> only a window manager Openbox, and use sysvinit and not systemd as
> init.)
> 
> Any suggestions?  

mutt, with a mailcap that includes:

text/html;  /usr/bin/firefox %s;test=test -n "$DISPLAY"; needsterminal;

and a .muttrc that includes:

auto_view text/html 
alternative_order text/plain text/enriched text/html  

that gets you a fast, sane mail client which will pop a message into
Firefox should you want to view it that way. (Hit "v" while looking
at the normal version of the message.  Nothing is going to render HTML
better than a browser.


-dsr-

Replacement Email Client

[Patrick Bartek]

Hi! All,

Looking for recommendations for a lightweight email client that will
handle HTML as well as plain text to replace Claws-Mail.  Have been
using Claws-Mail for years and before it Sylpheed.  Claws used to have
a basic HTML plugin renderer which was sufficient, but latest version
does not. And I'm getting more and more important emails in HTML where
just the plain text is insufficient to fully read the email.  That is,
text in (or as) images contain some (or much) of the content, etc.
Also, hate accessing email through a browser. So that option is out.

Both Thunderbird and Balsa have been rejected as T'bird is a behemoth
and no longer in development; and with Balsa, I don't want to have to
deal with GNOME-systemd, etc. dependencies. (I don't run GNOME anyway,
only a window manager Openbox, and use sysvinit and not systemd as
init.)

Any suggestions?  

Thanks

B

Re: TV Linux.

[ptilou]

Bonsoir,

Le lundi 19 octobre 2020 à 21:50:03 UTC+2, qbtdbm a écrit :
> Bonjour,
> 
> Je me permet ce message même si cela ne concerne pas directement Debian mais 
> Linux.
> 
> En passant chez Boulanger, j'ai vu des TV fonctionnant sous Linux et pas sous 
> Android…
> Je n'ai pas trouvé plus d'informations mais je continue de chercher.
> Est-ce Open Source ? Est ce que l'on peut mettre à jour en cas d’obsolescence 
> ?
> Quelqu'un a-t-il des informations complémentaire ou une expérience ?
> 
> Merci.

Androïde, c’est Linux, je sais pas très bien mais il me semble qu’il faut 
regarder c’est quel type de posix la norme ?

Androïde est le Linux de Google, mais l n’a pas que celui la, et Linux est une 
branche divergente de UNIX 

Donc je sais pas moi metre à jour, mais un vrai informaticien, trouvera un 
technicien désœuvré en clientèle qui peut faire ça facilement !

— 
Ptilou

Re: [rech] script traitement par lot d’image ?

[ptilou]

Le mercredi 21 octobre 2020 à 08:40:03 UTC+2, ptilou a écrit :
> Le lundi 19 octobre 2020 à 18:00:03 UTC+2, ptilou a écrit : 
> > Le dimanche 18 octobre 2020 à 15:30:02 UTC+2, Marc Siegwald a écrit : 
> > > Le 18/10/2020 à 07:55, ptilou a écrit : 
> > > > Bonjour, 
> > > > 
> > > > https://photos.app.goo.gl/4Jb7w57haK9uQxGr6 
> > > > Voilà 30 images prises à un intervalle de 1 mn, en astronomie le club 
> > > > du Havre propose un logiciel gratuit sous MS, c’est un astronome de 
> > > > Boston qui me l’a confié. 
> > > > 
> > > > J’ai d’autre exemple de «stack » de photos. 
> > > > 
> > > > J’aurais aimer savoir c’est quoi le script qui détecte les similitudes 
> > > > d’images, par exemple Google photo, au bout de X heures, proposent 
> > > > d’enregistrer divers choses (animation, panorama, etc ) 
> > > > 
> > > > Je pose la question avant de me lancer dans une recherche, j’ai trouvé 
> > > > une commande sous imagemagick pour assembler les photos, mais je n’ai 
> > > > rien vu pour détecter les photos à assembler, dois je m’orienter dans 
> > > > l’utilisation de opencv pour réaliser cela ? 
> > > > 
> > > > J’ai aussi l’idée de savoir si la commande hdr, qui est apparue y a 
> > > > quelque temps, c’est juste l’assemblage de 3 photos, ou il y a quelque 
> > > > chose d’autre, pourquoi doit on utiliser une biblio spécifique sous 
> > > > imagemagick, est-ce que quelqu’un l’a fait ? 
> > > > 
> > > > Désoler pour le lien Google, j’ai été déménagé 
> > > > Je vais compléter par une ligne de commande pour le stack imagemagick, 
> > > > le temps que je trouve . 
> > > > 
> > > > — 
> > > > Ptilou 
> > > > 
> > > Bonjour, 
> > > 
> > > En astrophoto pure (par exemple stack de photos lunaires ou 
> > > planétaires), on utilise plusieurs logiciels à la suite : PIPP, 
> > > Autostakkert 3 ou Registax. Ce sont tous des logiciels Windows à la 
> > > base, mais utilisables sous Debian et Wine. (petit bémol pour Registax 
> > > dont la compatibilité n'est pas optimale). 
> > > 
> > composite -dissolve 50 in1.png in2.png -alpha Set out.png 
> > 
> > Un exemple de stack, on est pas obligé de se limiter à : composite 
> > -dissolve, d'autre commande existe, et ma question est comment par quel 
> > algo, determine t'on les images à selectionner, pour imagemagick, est-ce 
> > que le module perl n'est pas plus adapté, sinon ici c'est logiciel libre et 
> > donc Gimp fait ce que tu propose, moi je cherche un automatisme, dans la 
> > commande choisie par imagemagick, et un deuxieme automatisme dans le choix 
> > des images, comme google photos le fait c'est que c'est public, juste 
> > quelqu'un qui me donne l'info sur l'algo, opencv est peut etre un bon debut 
> > de piste, y a que moi qui fait de la photo en ligne de commande ? 
> > > Fais une recherche sous Youtube sur "la chaîne astro" ou "astronote" ou 
> > > "Dk astronomie" pour des utilisations détaillées et chaînées des 
> > > différents logiciels. 
> > > 
> > > Bonne journée, 
> > Merci, je paye mon houblon au Fosdem ! 
> > > 
> > > Marc 
> > > 
> > > PS : et désolé pour le mail privé, j'ai cliqué trop vite 
> > Pas de souci google mail marche bien 
> http://www.fmwconcepts.com/imagemagick/autocolor/index.php 
> 
> Y a tous les automatismes, bon le script je vais repartir sur ma base de 
> convert, que j’ai publié sur fcolc, mais làselections des images ? (Opencv ?) 
> 
> Autre ptit chose elles (les images) arrivent en 18 Mpx, c’est pas mieux de 
> les réduire puis de faire les traitements ? 
> 
> Y a t’il des photographes open sources ? 
> ( sur un blog chez Word presse, sur de l’open sources, là pub de bannière 
> propose un photographe de drone, j’ai faillit chanter alleluia...) 

https://www.meteotuxpi.com/home
C’est projet sous Debian, d’un timelaps (donc assemblage de photos) du ciel 
avec un Rasbperry 
(J’ai renvoyer mon Rasbperry à Amazon, par ce que, quand je m’absente, la 
maladie donné sur la microsd du Fosdem, devient un engagement du pronostic 
vital de l’os ... ;-D)

Ça a l’air fesable ?

> 
> > 
> > -- 
> > ptilou

Re: Please be respectful

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 07:31:11PM +0200, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
> Le samedi 24 octobre 2020 à 12:07:09-0500, Leslie Rhorer a écrit :
> > 
> > 
> > On 10/24/2020 11:46 AM, Pierre-Elliott B�cue wrote:
> > > Le samedi 24 octobre 2020 � 10:39:56-0500, Leslie Rhorer a �crit�:
> > > > [snip]
> > > 
> > > Honestly, I don't care about your opinion. If you don't want to follow
> > 
> > So let me get this straight.  I want very much to hear your opinion.
> > Indeed, I would be willing to fight and if need be die to protect your right
> > to express your opinion.  You, however, cannot be bothered to hear mine.
> 
> I read it thrice, a fourth time is not going to have any better outcome.
> 
> > Yet I am disrespectful?  Right.
> 
> You are when you try to impose your values on a place where a set of
> rules already exist.
> 
> > > the local rules, go waste people's time elsewhere.
> > 
> > Only a fool or one devoid of morals and ethics follows rules.  As a free
> > man, I follow nothing and no one.
> 
> Then please go following nothing and no one elsewhere.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -- 
> Pierre-Elliott Bécue
> GPG: 9AE0 4D98 6400 E3B6 7528  F493 0D44 2664 1949 74E2
> It's far easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.

Leslie,

You clearly have a great deal to say about your personal morals and ethics and 
you do not regard yourself as anybody's fool. 
"Never argue with a fool on the Internet - after a couple of rounds, a 
dispassionate observer will not be able to tell who's who"

Your responses in this and other threads are neither necessarily constructive 
nor helping other people to appreciate you more widely. 
I would respectfully suggest that you could profitably go back and read the 
list archives to find examples of good and useful 
communication styles that will allow you to bring your expertise to bear more 
usefully to every reader's benefit.

The Debian mailing list code of conduct (see below) is here to try and bring 
some of these things more clearly to people's attention
if they don't already know,

The Debian Code of Conduct (see below) is more wide ranging and applies to any 
and all Debian assets. In many ways, it's based on 
getting the best out of how we work: we're aware of the sorts of issues that 
can cause problems or attitudes that can alienate 
people and would not wish to perpetuate these.

With thanks for your reading time,

All the very best, as ever,

Andy Cater [amaca...@debian.org]

https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/
https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct

Re: PATH nfg after su

[tomas]

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 07:12:20PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:

[...]

> sudo su - has one advantage: it gives you root's path and root's home 
> directory - so you end up in /home/root or wherever root's
> home is set to. Otherwise, you end up, potentially, in the calling user's 
> home directory.

Not with sudo -i. This one runs a login shell for the user
you "sudo" to and puts you in its home directory. More or
less what "su -" does.

Cheers
 - t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: PATH nfg after su

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 06:49:52PM +0100, Tixy wrote:
> On Fri, 2020-10-23 at 15:11 +0200, Sven Hartge wrote:
> > Tixy  wrote:
> > > On Fri, 2020-10-23 at 08:19 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote
> > > > Using "sudo su -" is a new one to me.  Not only are you
> > > > wastefully
> > > > running two programs when you only need one.
> > > It's useful (essential?) if you want a root shell when there's no
> > > root
> > > password set like on Ubuntu (and optionally on Debian).
> > 
> > No.
> > 
> > "sudo -i" does exactly that: Run a shell as "root" and ask for the
> > password of the user calling it.
> 
> Thanks. Debian has su installed as part of a required package so I
> never bothered installing sudo, it just seemed to be an Ubuntu thing.
> 
> -- 
> Tixy
> 
sudo su - has one advantage: it gives you root's path and root's home directory 
- so you end up in /home/root or wherever root's
home is set to. Otherwise, you end up, potentially, in the calling user's home 
directory.

Just my 0.02c

Andy

Re: Can't scroll back with Shift+PageUp in TTY

[Yvan Masson]

Le 24/10/2020 à 17:30, Sven Joachim a écrit :

On 2020-10-24 13:40 +0200, Yvan Masson wrote:


I just discover that Shift+PageUp and Shift+PageDown in TTY does not
work on my Debian computers (1 running testing, one running stable,
and 2 VMs running stable). It works on another VM running CentOS
8. And it works on my testing box when inside gnome-terminal.

I could not find anything relevant on the net. Any idea how to get
Shift+PageUp working again in TTY?


The feature has been removed due to security concerns[1].
It is unclear when (if?) it will come back.
Thanks for the answer! It would have been impossible to find this 
explanation by myself.


Cheers,
Sven


Cheers,
Yvan


¹ https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2020-14390

Re: Intel RST driver -> SSD bug ?

[Cindy Sue Causey]

On 10/24/20, David Christensen  wrote:
> On 2020-10-24 09:56, A. Kapetanovic wrote:
>> David Christensen writes:
>>> Do you own the four books I previously recommended?
> 
>> Have please someone a advice for me ?
>
> Buy, read, enter all or part of the examples, and solve all or part of
> the exercises in "Learning Perl".  The more examples and exercises you
> work on, the more you will learn.
>
>
> Find and join a community of Perl programmers.


Researching for signs of any Perl Mongers groups near one's location
might help. What I've seen of them over a LONG period of time is that
they can be a very supportive group. That does depend on the combined
personality of each singular group, though.

https://www.pm.org/

There's also Perlweekly:

https://perlweekly.com/

A quick peek at their archives there might land a website lead that
allows for asking Perl-based questions.

For either source, Users do have to have at least tried to work
through things on their own via online tutorials and books such as
those David has suggested.

Having said that: Maybe some creative searching using the word
"beginner" and Perl lists might land something handy, too. In that
case, it's not about the "beginner" aspect. It's about finding a place
that dedicates itself to breaking things down to the absolute bottom
base step upon which ALL the rest is then built.

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with birdseed *

Re: Please be respectful

[Leslie Rhorer]

On 10/24/2020 12:01 PM, Doug McGarrett wrote:


These messages are very unrespectful.


There is no such word as "unrespectful".

	In what way are any of my messages disrespectful?  (Answer: they are 
not.) I have not called anyone a name.  I have not made any derogatory 
comments about anyone in this list.  I have not engaged in any ad 
hominem attacks, or indeed any attack of any sort, personal or 
otherwise, on anyone here.


I don't need a screen full of this 


	None of these messages fill more than half my screen, and none take 
more than 30 seconds to read.



BS!


	They are not BS.  Please demonstrate where even one of the sentences is 
demonstrably wrong or poorly considered.  Your saying something is BS is 
in no way evidence it is B.S.



Stop it!


	Why?  They are certainly not off-topic for the thread.  If you find 
them less than desirable in some way, that is not my problem.

Re: Intel RST driver -> SSD bug ?

[David Christensen]

On 2020-10-24 09:56, A. Kapetanovic wrote:

David Christensen writes:

Do you own the four books I previously recommended?



Have please someone a advice for me ?


Buy, read, enter all or part of the examples, and solve all or part of 
the exercises in "Learning Perl".  The more examples and exercises you 
work on, the more you will learn.



Find and join a community of Perl programmers.


david

Re: Please be respectful

[john doe]

On 10/24/2020 7:31 PM, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:

Le samedi 24 octobre 2020 à 12:07:09-0500, Leslie Rhorer a écrit :



On 10/24/2020 11:46 AM, Pierre-Elliott B�cue wrote:

Le samedi 24 octobre 2020 � 10:39:56-0500, Leslie Rhorer a �crit�:

[snip]


Honestly, I don't care about your opinion. If you don't want to follow


So let me get this straight.  I want very much to hear your opinion.
Indeed, I would be willing to fight and if need be die to protect your right
to express your opinion.  You, however, cannot be bothered to hear mine.


I read it thrice, a fourth time is not going to have any better outcome.


Yet I am disrespectful?  Right.


You are when you try to impose your values on a place where a set of
rules already exist.


the local rules, go waste people's time elsewhere.


Only a fool or one devoid of morals and ethics follows rules.  As a free
man, I follow nothing and no one.


Then please go following nothing and no one elsewhere.

Regards,



Please, take this elsewhere.

--
John Doe

Re: Please be respectful

[Pierre-Elliott Bécue]

Le samedi 24 octobre 2020 à 12:07:09-0500, Leslie Rhorer a écrit :
> 
> 
> On 10/24/2020 11:46 AM, Pierre-Elliott B�cue wrote:
> > Le samedi 24 octobre 2020 � 10:39:56-0500, Leslie Rhorer a �crit�:
> > > [snip]
> > 
> > Honestly, I don't care about your opinion. If you don't want to follow
> 
>   So let me get this straight.  I want very much to hear your opinion.
> Indeed, I would be willing to fight and if need be die to protect your right
> to express your opinion.  You, however, cannot be bothered to hear mine.

I read it thrice, a fourth time is not going to have any better outcome.

>   Yet I am disrespectful?  Right.

You are when you try to impose your values on a place where a set of
rules already exist.

> > the local rules, go waste people's time elsewhere.
> 
>   Only a fool or one devoid of morals and ethics follows rules.  As a free
> man, I follow nothing and no one.

Then please go following nothing and no one elsewhere.

Regards,

-- 
Pierre-Elliott Bécue
GPG: 9AE0 4D98 6400 E3B6 7528  F493 0D44 2664 1949 74E2
It's far easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Please be respectful

[Doug McGarrett]

These messages are very unrespectful. I don't need a screen full of this 
BS! Stop it!

On 10/24/20 12:23 PM, Leslie Rhorer wrote:



On 10/24/2020 3:11 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 02:52:41AM -0500, Leslie Rhorer wrote:

[...]


A couple of decades ago I had to have spinal surgery [...]
What he thought of me as a person was completely irrelevant.


Nice example. If you now try to abstract from it, that means
exactly that: whatever criteria each one choses to be important
is none of your (or my) business.


That is exceedingly poor abstraction.  What it means is I would 
have to be a complete idiot to allow my personal feelings to interfere 
in any way with my ability to continue living and breathing.  It also 
means his manner, no matter how offensive, is in no way relevant to 
his skill.


Of course, there is also absolutely no way he or anyone else is 
going to hurt my feelings by being brutally truthful.  The only thing 
that mattered is he felt he could fix me.



Our duty


Duty?  Are you serious?  I certainly never took an oath to 
Debian.  Did you?  My duty is what I choose it to be, and nothing else.



is to find ways of getting along together


Who says?  It is definitely not my top priority.


while trying to respect this.


While trying to respect what?  I never, ever *TRY* to respect 
anyone or anything.  I either do or I do not.  Neither is at all 
difficult.



Perhaps to someone else her physician's bedside
manners are more important that her own life?


Are you suggesting women are idiots?  If not, then why do you say, 
"Her"?


In the great scheme of things, I am perfectly well aware my life 
is not particularly important.  Not very long from now I will cease to 
live, and in less than a century - probably not much more than a 
decade - no one will have any idea who I was or even that I ever 
lived.  Boo Hoo. That my life is far, far less important than many 
millions of other things does not, however, mean my life is not worth 
much more than many things.  My personal feelings are way, way down 
that list.



It's on us to respect that.


No, it isn't.  Not even a tiny bit.  I respect anyone's right - 
male or female - to be as stupid as they want to be.  That does not 
mean I respect them, nor can anyone anywhere compel me to do so.  I 
also will not choose to mourn anyone killed by their own foolishness.

Re: Please be respectful

[Leslie Rhorer]

On 10/24/2020 11:46 AM, Pierre-Elliott B�cue wrote:

Le samedi 24 octobre 2020 � 10:39:56-0500, Leslie Rhorer a �crit�:

[snip]


Honestly, I don't care about your opinion. If you don't want to follow


	So let me get this straight.  I want very much to hear your opinion. 
Indeed, I would be willing to fight and if need be die to protect your 
right to express your opinion.  You, however, cannot be bothered to hear 
mine.


Yet I am disrespectful?  Right.


the local rules, go waste people's time elsewhere.


	Only a fool or one devoid of morals and ethics follows rules.  As a 
free man, I follow nothing and no one.

Re: Please be respectful

[Leslie Rhorer]

On 10/24/2020 11:46 AM, Dan Ritter wrote:

Leslie Rhorer wrote: a bunch of words that indicate that they
aren't interested in politeness as a tool for lubricating social
interactions, even when a minimal attempt at such is the
recognized currency of the community.


	Why would I want to have any "social interactions" in the first place? 
I don't know you, I don't know the vast majority of any so-called 
community, and  I have no particular desire to get to know any but a 
small handful.  The very last thing on Earth I would ever want to be is 
"popular".  I would much rather have gangrene.




One of the great things about the Internet is that, in any
competent interaction system, one can filter out jerks.


	So much for your so-called "politeness".  Why is it those who proclaim 
so loudly they demand something are the very first to deny it to others?

Re: Intel RST driver -> SSD bug ?

[A. Kapetanovic]

David Christensen writes:

Do you own the four books I previously recommended?


I wrote their names on a postit, for the moment. I will begin by looking on  
Test::Most


Thanks lot for these information.


Have you considered hiring a tutor or consultant?


I want absolutely do this script myself.

Please condense your script down to a short example that demonstrates  
the bug, post your code, explain what you expect the code to do, post a  
sample run, explain what happened, and explain why what happened does  
not match your expectations.


I have found the reason of sometimes :
amel@laptopasus:~/fp/test.algoB$ ./algo-B1.pl
2020-01-01 - 2020-08-31

And sometimes :
amel@laptopasus:~/fp/test.algoB$ ./algo-B1.pl
Undefined subroutine ::lisblocage called at ./algo-B1.pl line 161.

Is is simply the effect of the mixture of :

1. The keys of a hash given by keys() function come in different order (in  
different executions of a program).
2. I did a mistake : 'last' but should be 'next' in the loop on the keys  
above.


But the questions of the SSD is always here, I really would like a "true"  
diagnostic.


I did

smartctl -x

But the result is instantaneous :

# smartctl -x /dev/nvme0n1p5
smartctl 7.1 2019-12-30 r5022 [x86_64-linux-5.4.0-52-generic] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-19, Bruce Allen, Christian Franke, www.smartmontools.org

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Number:   SAMSUNG MZVLQ512HALU-0
Serial Number:  S4Y4NF0N221020
Firmware Version:   FXV7000Q
PCI Vendor/Subsystem ID:0x144d
IEEE OUI Identifier:0x002538
Total NVM Capacity: 512’110’190’592 [512 GB]
Unallocated NVM Capacity:   0
Controller ID:  5
Number of Namespaces:   1
Namespace 1 Size/Capacity:  512’110’190’592 [512 GB]
Namespace 1 Utilization:171’792’056’320 [171 GB]
Namespace 1 Formatted LBA Size: 512
Namespace 1 IEEE EUI-64:002538 a201b2a36d
Local Time is:  Sat Oct 24 18:52:07 2020 CEST
Firmware Updates (0x16):3 Slots, no Reset required
Optional Admin Commands (0x0017):   Security Format Frmw_DL Self_Test
Optional NVM Commands (0x005f): Comp Wr_Unc DS_Mngmt Wr_Zero  
Sav/Sel_Feat Timestmp

Maximum Data Transfer Size: 512 Pages
Warning  Comp. Temp. Threshold: 82 Celsius
Critical Comp. Temp. Threshold: 85 Celsius

Supported Power States
St Op Max   Active Idle   RL RT WL WT  Ent_Lat  Ex_Lat
 0 + 4.83W   --0  0  0  00   0
 1 + 3.54W   --1  1  1  10   0
 2 + 3.04W   --2  2  2  20 500
 3 -   0.0500W   --3  3  3  3  2101200
 4 -   0.0050W   --4  4  4  4 10009000

Supported LBA Sizes (NSID 0x1)
Id Fmt  Data  Metadt  Rel_Perf
 0 + 512   0 0

=== START OF SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

SMART/Health Information (NVMe Log 0x02)
Critical Warning:   0x00
Temperature:12 Celsius
Available Spare:100%
Available Spare Threshold:  10%
Percentage Used:0%
Data Units Read:1’960’412 [1.00 TB]
Data Units Written: 2’023’052 [1.03 TB]
Host Read Commands: 16’052’101
Host Write Commands:27’571’627
Controller Busy Time:   704
Power Cycles:   187
Power On Hours: 74
Unsafe Shutdowns:   31
Media and Data Integrity Errors:0
Error Information Log Entries:  74
Warning  Comp. Temperature Time:0
Critical Comp. Temperature Time:0
Temperature Sensor 1:   12 Celsius

Error Information (NVMe Log 0x01, max 64 entries)
No Errors Logged

# df
Sys. de fichiers blocs de 1K   Utilisé Disponible Uti% Monté sur
udev 8055688 08055688   0% /dev
tmpfs1619780  20321617748   1% /run
/dev/nvme0n1p5 224554636 108702560  104375648  52% /
tmpfs80988842986367800248   4% /dev/shm
tmpfs   5120 4   5116   1% /run/lock
tmpfs8098884 08098884   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
/dev/loop1 56704 56704  0 100% /snap/core18/1885
/dev/loop3261760261760  0 100%  
/snap/gnome-3-34-1804/36
/dev/loop2166784166784  0 100%  
/snap/gnome-3-28-1804/145
/dev/loop4223232223232  0 100%  
/snap/gnome-3-34-1804/60

/dev/loop0 56320 56320  0 100% /snap/core18/1880
/dev/loop5 51968 51968  0 100% /snap/snap-store/481
/dev/loop6 63616 63616  0 100% /snap/gtk-common- 
themes/1506

/dev/loop7 31744 31744  0 100% 

Firefox browser hangs

[Mick Ab]

The following error messages were obtained when Iceweasel
tried to access a website. It caused Iceweasel to hang. What
is causing the problem and how can it be solved ?

PDL protocol error: Handler returned error code!

###!!! [Parent][DispatchAsyncMessage] Error:
PLayerTransaction::Msg_ReleaseLayer Processing error: message was
deserialized, but the handler returned false (indicating failure)

IPDL protocol error: Handler returned error code!

###!!! [Parent][DispatchAsyncMessage] Error:
PLayerTransaction::Msg_ReleaseLayer Processing error: message was
deserialized, but the handler returned false (indicating failure)

[Child 12763, MediaPlayback #3] WARNING: Decoder=7fe6f33db200 Decode error:
NS_ERROR_DOM_MEDIA_FATAL_ERR (0x806e0005) -
RefPtr, mozilla::MediaResult, true> >
mozilla::MediaSourceTrackDemuxer::DoGetSamples(int32_t): manager is
detached.: file
/network/scratch/roberto/freexian/firefox-esr/68.9.0/firefox-esr-68.9.0esr/dom/media/MediaDecoderStateMachine.cpp,
line 3307 [Child 12763, MediaPlayback #1] WARNING: Decoder=7fe6f33db200
Decode error: NS_ERROR_DOM_MEDIA_FATAL_ERR (0x806e0005) -
RefPtr,
mozilla::MediaResult, true> >
mozilla::MediaSourceTrackDemuxer::DoGetSamples(int32_t): manager is
detached.: file
/network/scratch/roberto/freexian/firefox-esr/68.9.0/firefox-esr-68.9.0esr/dom/media/MediaDecoderStateMachine.cpp,
line 3307 [Child 12763, MediaPlayback #3] WARNING: Decoder=7fe6f33db200
Decode error: NS_ERROR_DOM_MEDIA_FATAL_ERR (0x806e0005) -
RefPtr,
mozilla::MediaResult, true> >
mozilla::MediaSourceTrackDemuxer::DoGetSamples(int32_t): manager is
detached.: file
/network/scratch/roberto/freexian/firefox-esr/68.9.0/firefox-esr-68.9.0esr/dom/media/MediaDecoderStateMachine.cpp,
line 3307 ATTENTION: default value of option force_s3tc_enable overridden
by environment.

Re: Please be respectful

[Pierre-Elliott Bécue]

Le samedi 24 octobre 2020 à 10:39:56-0500, Leslie Rhorer a écrit :
> [snip]

Honestly, I don't care about your opinion. If you don't want to follow
the local rules, go waste people's time elsewhere.

Regards,

-- 
Pierre-Elliott Bécue
GPG: 9AE0 4D98 6400 E3B6 7528  F493 0D44 2664 1949 74E2
It's far easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Please be respectful

[Dan Ritter]

Leslie Rhorer wrote: a bunch of words that indicate that they
aren't interested in politeness as a tool for lubricating social
interactions, even when a minimal attempt at such is the
recognized currency of the community.

One of the great things about the Internet is that, in any
competent interaction system, one can filter out jerks.

Plonk.

-dsr-

Re: Please be respectful

[Leslie Rhorer]

On 10/24/2020 3:11 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 02:52:41AM -0500, Leslie Rhorer wrote:

[...]


A couple of decades ago I had to have spinal surgery [...]
What he thought of me as a person was completely irrelevant.


Nice example. If you now try to abstract from it, that means
exactly that: whatever criteria each one choses to be important
is none of your (or my) business.


	That is exceedingly poor abstraction.  What it means is I would have to 
be a complete idiot to allow my personal feelings to interfere in any 
way with my ability to continue living and breathing.  It also means his 
manner, no matter how offensive, is in no way relevant to his skill.


	Of course, there is also absolutely no way he or anyone else is going 
to hurt my feelings by being brutally truthful.  The only thing that 
mattered is he felt he could fix me.



Our duty


	Duty?  Are you serious?  I certainly never took an oath to Debian.  Did 
you?  My duty is what I choose it to be, and nothing else.



is to find ways of getting along together


Who says?  It is definitely not my top priority.


while trying to respect this.


	While trying to respect what?  I never, ever *TRY* to respect anyone or 
anything.  I either do or I do not.  Neither is at all difficult.



Perhaps to someone else her physician's bedside
manners are more important that her own life?


Are you suggesting women are idiots?  If not, then why do you say, 
"Her"?

	In the great scheme of things, I am perfectly well aware my life is not 
particularly important.  Not very long from now I will cease to live, 
and in less than a century - probably not much more than a decade - no 
one will have any idea who I was or even that I ever lived.  Boo Hoo. 
That my life is far, far less important than many millions of other 
things does not, however, mean my life is not worth much more than many 
things.  My personal feelings are way, way down that list.



It's on us to respect that.


	No, it isn't.  Not even a tiny bit.  I respect anyone's right - male or 
female - to be as stupid as they want to be.  That does not mean I 
respect them, nor can anyone anywhere compel me to do so.  I also will 
not choose to mourn anyone killed by their own foolishness.

Re: Please be respectful

[Leslie Rhorer]

On 10/24/2020 8:59 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

  it's foolish to argue with foolish peopleif i receive unpleasant message, i 
just ignore it (keep quiet)


In general, this is a good strategy.


In general, I disagree.


Leslie, I stopped discussing with you for a long while. I'm not
interested in picking it up now.


	You have *GOT* to be kidding.  "A long while"?  Fifty years is a long 
while, perhaps.  A billion years is definitely so.

Re: Please be respectful

[Leslie Rhorer]

On 10/18/2020 7:39 AM, Pierre-Elliott B�cue wrote:

In your perception.


Looking at the number of people who replied to tell you your attitude is
not welcome, I think it is a bit more than just my perception.


	It would be rather remarkable if it were only yours.  A singular 
perception limited to a single person is a delusion, and you don't seem 
delusional.  My question is, "So what?"



I guess this is why Andrew sent his reply just to you,
instead of giving you another shovel to dig with.

I don't know what you are trying to achieve here, but I stand my point
: your lack of respect for others is not welcome here.


And I stand mine: respect is a quality that needs to be earned.


Not here.


	Everywhere.  Otherwise, as I pointed out more than once, it is 
completely worthless and of no use or value to anyone.  It is analogous 
to giving every single person a PhD.  Having done so, having a PhD would 
be absolutely meaningless.  If absolutely everyone is given complete 
respect regardless of their behavior then respect means nothing.  Zilch. 
 Nada.  Complete zero.  Then asking for it anywhere including here, 
serves no purpose whatsoever.


	I do not understand how anyone can fail to understand this.  Suppose 
everything were free to everyone just for the asking.  What would be the 
point of having money?


	You are not doing anyone any favors by insisting upon universal 
respect.  Quite the opposite, you are offering everyone the highest 
possible level of disrespect.  Claiming everyone should be given respect 
is *EXACTLY* the same as saying no one deserves it, least of all those 
who have worked hardest to deserve it.


	You need to understand, it is *YOU* who are guilty of disrespect in 
that you try to destroy any value inherent in respect.  It is *YOU* who 
are being far and away the most offensive.



Not in the biggest part of the society.


	The biggest part of "society" (whatever that is) deserves nothing 
whatsoever unless they earn it.  Neither does the smallest.



Respect is presumed, and then is either confirmed or lost.


	First of all, that is quibbling.  Whether something is afforded 
a-priori and then withdrawn or afforded only after the fact is a minor 
distinction.  You said it must be afforded to everyone.  Now you are 
saying it does not have to be afforded to everyone.  You cannot have it 
both ways.



Feel free to abide by the rules
you like at your home, but here the rules are not yours. If you're not
fine with these rules, it's the same as any private space: either remain
silent or leave.


	I do not feel compelled to abide by any rules, anywhere.  I am as much 
as possible a free man, which means I answer to no one.  I choose to do 
my very best to behave in a strictly ethical and consistent manner, 
causing injury to no one and as much as possible allowing those around 
me to enjoy as much freedom as possible.  Others may think of me what 
they will.  I really could not possibly care less.


	That said, it is never my intent to be rude.  If you perceive me to be 
rude, then you are mistaking my intent, regardless of what you think may 
have been my meaning.



Many times people let rude and aggressive tones and behaviours go,
because


	I let rude and aggressive tones and behaviors go because they mean 
nothing at all, especially not to me.  I have many, many important 
things to consider in my life.  Someone being snarky to me on a mailing 
list doesn't even make it into the top 500.



are rules to interact on these lists and that one tries to show that
he's smarter and rules don't apply to him are just boring for everyone.
But from time to time, it's required to remind to everyone that just
because we don't react all the time doesn't mean we think less.


Is there a point there?  If so, I missed it.

Re: Can't scroll back with Shift+PageUp in TTY

[Sven Joachim]

On 2020-10-24 13:40 +0200, Yvan Masson wrote:

> I just discover that Shift+PageUp and Shift+PageDown in TTY does not
> work on my Debian computers (1 running testing, one running stable,
> and 2 VMs running stable). It works on another VM running CentOS
> 8. And it works on my testing box when inside gnome-terminal.
>
> I could not find anything relevant on the net. Any idea how to get
> Shift+PageUp working again in TTY?

The feature has been removed due to security concerns[1].
It is unclear when (if?) it will come back.

Cheers,
   Sven


¹ https://security-tracker.debian.org/tracker/CVE-2020-14390

Re: Please be respectful

[tomas]

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 05:45:07AM -0500, Leslie Rhorer wrote:
> 
> 
> On 10/18/2020 7:12 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> >On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at 11:52:20AM +, Long Wind wrote:
> >>  it's foolish to argue with foolish peopleif i receive unpleasant message, 
> >> i just ignore it (keep quiet)
> >
> >In general, this is a good strategy.
> 
>   In general, I disagree.

Leslie, I stopped discussing with you for a long while. I'm not
interested in picking it up now.

Bye
 - t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: [testing] noyau 5.9

[Jérémy Prego]

Le 24/10/2020 à 13:20, Gaëtan Perrier a écrit :
> Bonjour,
Bonjour,
> Comme avec le 5.8 a son arrivée, le noyau 5.9 qui vient d'arrivée ne démarre
> pas ... Ça devient une mauvaise habitude chez debian :(

aucun problème ici sur une machine de type laptop dell en uefi, tout ce
qu'il y a de plus normal. :)
quel problème rencontres-tu exactement ?
> Gaëtan

Jerem

Re: Qualité du chiffrement des archives 7z

[Sébastien Dinot]

kaliderus a écrit :
> J'envisage de faire quelques sauvegardes avec 7z et de les envoyer sur
> un serveur sur lequel j'ai la main, mais pas sur le réseau
> intermédiaire.

Pourquoi ne pas utiliser un outil de sauvegarde qui chiffre les données
localement, avant de les transmettre ?

J'utilise pour ma part borg-backup, mais duplicity ou restic font de
même.

Et s'il s'agit juste de sauvegarder un fichier ou une simple archive,
autant utiliser GnuPG, il est fait pour cela (et pour la signature
cryptographique).

Pour ma part, je n'utilise le chiffrement avec 7z (chiffrement
relativement fort, mais symétrique) que pour transmettre des données
confidentielles à des tiers qui n'ont pas de clé GnuPG et ne savent pas
se servir d'un tel outil. Dans ce cas, je leur transmets l'archive
chiffrée via un service d'échange de fichier quelconque (par exemple
https://transfer.sh/ ou https://dl.free.fr) et le mot de passe
permettant de déchiffrer l'archive via SMS.

Et si les données confidentielles en question, sont textuelles et de
faible taille, j'utilise le service https://privatebin.net/, toujours en
envoyant le mot de passe par un autre vecteur.

Sébastien

-- 
Sébastien Dinot, sebastien.di...@free.fr
http://www.palabritudes.net/
Ne goûtez pas au logiciel libre, vous ne pourriez plus vous en passer !

Re: [testing] noyau 5.9

[Michel]

Le 24/10/2020 à 13:30, Gaëtan Perrier a écrit :
> Bonjour,
> 
> Comme avec le 5.8 a son arrivée, le noyau 5.9 qui vient d'arrivée ne démarre
> pas ... Ça devient une mauvaise habitude chez debian :(
> 
> Gaëtan
> 

La stable ( Buster ), c'est un noyau 4.19. Il démarre sans problème...

Si tu es en Sid, testing ou même experimental, c'est un choix à assumer.

Can't scroll back with Shift+PageUp in TTY

[Yvan Masson]

Hi list,

I just discover that Shift+PageUp and Shift+PageDown in TTY does not 
work on my Debian computers (1 running testing, one running stable, and 
2 VMs running stable). It works on another VM running CentOS 8. And it 
works on my testing box when inside gnome-terminal.


I could not find anything relevant on the net. Any idea how to get 
Shift+PageUp working again in TTY?


Regards,
Yvan

[testing] noyau 5.9

[Gaëtan Perrier]

Bonjour,

Comme avec le 5.8 a son arrivée, le noyau 5.9 qui vient d'arrivée ne démarre
pas ... Ça devient une mauvaise habitude chez debian :(

Gaëtan


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: Qualité du chiffrement des archives 7z

[NoSpam]

Bonjour

Le 24/10/2020 à 01:10, kaliderus a écrit :

Bonjour / bonsoir,

J'envisage de faire quelques sauvegardes avec 7z et de les envoyer sur
un serveur sur lequel j'ai la main, mais pas sur le réseau
intermédiaire.
Quel est la qualité du chiffrement de cet utilitaire avec le
-p{password} précisé?
Est-ce que les outils destinés à " tester la qualité du chiffrement "
peuvent y venir à bout facilement ?
Les archives en question contiennent entre autres des documents
bancaires, comptables etc. bref un peu confidentiels.

Sinon, avez-vous un autre outil à me conseiller pour ce type de besoin
(en ligne de commande) ?


J'ai créé mon script à base de tar et openssl pour la création du 
fichier et scp/smbclient/rclone pour la copie vers les serveurs.


Extrait

file_key=/usr/local/etc/.backup_key

if [ ! -e $file_key ]; then
    echo && echo "No file key available - Please check if <$file_key> 
is existing and readable" && echo

    exit 0
fi

encrypt_cmd="openssl enc -aes-256-cbc -salt -pbkdf2 -pass 
file:$file_key"   # put "cat" if you don't want encryption


[...]

echo "Creating $filename.$filext"
/bin/tar c -hX $excludefileslist -T $fileslist | /bin/gzip -9 | 
$encrypt_cmd >$filedir/$filename.$filext

$scp1 $filedir/$filename.$filext $scpserver1:$BackupPath/$filename.$filex


Il y a pas mal de solution de chiffrement de fichiers visiblement, et
j'avoue avoir un peu la flemme de tout tester.

Merci bien !


Avec plaisir
--
Danie

Re: Please be respectful

[Leslie Rhorer]

On 10/18/2020 7:12 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at 11:52:20AM +, Long Wind wrote:

  it's foolish to argue with foolish peopleif i receive unpleasant message, i 
just ignore it (keep quiet)


In general, this is a good strategy.


In general, I disagree.


Still, there are people
around who feel hurt by things


	So what?  I am hurt by many, many things.  That does not mean it would 
be appropriate for me to attempt to make others responsible for my pain. 
 My pain is my problem.  Their pain is theirs.



and are too shy to speak up;


	That is their problem and their prerogative.  Neither you or I are 
responsible for it.



It's a fine line to walk: of course I only have my subjective
impression as a guide


	That is not true.  Thousands of volumes of other people's impressions 
and experiences have been put down on paper.  We all have their wisdom 
readily available.



and that may be wrong, so it's quite
possible that I'm being unjust when I speak up.


	I find that unlikely.  Speaking one's mind - whether right or wrong - 
is virtually never unjust and only very rarely unwise.



So I sincerely hope to be corrected in those case. That's the
only way to learn.


	If not the only way, then at least the best one.  It is no favor to 
anyone to allow them to continue to believe something to be correct that 
is not.

Re: Please be respectful

[Leslie Rhorer]

On 10/18/2020 6:52 AM, Long Wind wrote:

it's foolish to argue with foolish people
if i receive unpleasant message, i just ignore it (keep quiet)


 “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to 
do nothing.”― Edmund Burke


In my opinion, the *LAST* thing one should do is keep quiet.

Re: Please be respectful

[Leslie Rhorer]

On 10/18/2020 6:39 AM, Christoph K. wrote:

We're on a Debian mailing list here. Being respectful is part of the
Debian Code of Conduct 


	Being polite is not, nor is offering respect.  I submit you may need to 
lean the difference between being polite, being respectful, and holding 
respect.  They are three very different things.



which reflects the values of this community:


	Talk about arrogance!  It reflects nothing more or less than an 
attempted expression of the ideals of those who penned the rules, 
whether they be good, bad, or indifferent.  I certainly did not even 
vote on them, nor have the vast majority of the members of this list.  I 
request you please do not try to endow this forum with some repulsive 
notion of grandeur.



If both of you openly state that you oppose the idea of being respectful


	I never said that, and it is in fact disrespectful of you to 
misrepresent the things I say.  Are we to believe the rest of us must be 
respectful, while you are exempt?



with other people unless they have earned your respect (according to your
perception)


	Is it your claim you ever make statements that are not according to 
your perception?  Is your perception somehow better than mine?



you more or less directly state that you oppose the Debian
Code of Conduct.


	Once again, it is disrespectful to put words in other people's mouths. 
Why is it OK for you to disrespect others but not the rest of us?


	BTW, it is my absolute right to oppose the Debian Code of Conduct or 
anything else I choose to oppose.  Are you suggesting otherwise?  If so, 
we need to have that very unpleasant conversation I mentioned.



Apart from that, both of you have broken a couple of rules from the
Mailing lists code of conduct: https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/

* Non-constructive [...] messages [...] are not welcome


	Which part of what messages of mine were non-constructive, realizing of 
course the very notion is highly subjective?  I am not compelled to 
agree with you or anyone else what is or is not constructive, but I 
still want to know how you consider them to be or not be.



* Do not use foul language; [...]


	What is "foul" language?  I do not know of the existence of any such 
thing.  There are, I suppose, George Carlin's Seven Words One Can Never 
Say on Radio and Television.  Interestingly enough, I have heard all of 
them on radio and television, but I have not used them here.  Why anyone 
would object to their use, I really haven't much of a clue, but on the 
other hand I don't recall using any of them here.  Please point out any 
passages where I employed what you deem "foul language" used by me.



* Try not to flame; it is not polite.


I *NEVER* flame anyone, anywhere, or any time.

	A blatantly false accusation such as this is highly disrespectful, far 
more than I have ever been.  Once again you are claiming I have failed 
to meet a supposed standard and trying to hold me to a far higher one 
than to which you hold yourself.



* Use common sense all the time.


Define common sense.


I hope some people will draw some meaningful consequences.


I think perhaps you should hope not.

Re: Please be respectful

[Leslie Rhorer]

On 10/18/2020 5:23 AM, Michael uplawski wrote:

Weaver:


And I stand mine: respect is a quality that needs to be earned.


All living thing, and maybe more merit respect as a matter of fact.


	That is total horse crap.  As I pointed out before, anything given 
without discrimination to everyone without respect to merit is 
completely worthless by definition.  If this is the case for your 
respect, then do not bopther to offer it to me, because it is less than 
nothing.


	I maintain, however, that my respect has both meaning and value, and as 
such will under no circumstances be afforded to any who cannot be 
bothered to earn it.  I am generally loathe to quote the Bible, but 
Matthew 7:6 says, "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither 
cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their 
feet, and turn again and rend you.


	You may go offering "respect" to thieves, murderers, rapists, and 
blithering idiots, but I refuse.

Re: Qualité du chiffrement des archives 7z

[l0f4r0]

Bonjour,

24 oct. 2020 à 01:10 de kalide...@gmail.com:

> Quel est la qualité du chiffrement de cet utilitaire avec le
> -p{password} précisé?
>
Cf. tous les conseils déjà fournis par ailleurs (je rajoute "gpg" à la liste) 
mais si tu souhaites toujours utiliser le chiffrement de 7z alors un conseil 
évite juste de mettre le mot de passe dans cette même ligne de commande (il va 
rester dans l'historique du shell sauf si t'as pris des mesures particulières 
en amont ou mis un espace en début de commande...).

Mieux vaut en effet que 7z te lance un prompt juste après ta commande pour que 
tu saisisses ton mdp séparément. Visiblement ce mode interactif est possible en 
ne mettant aucun mdp juste après l'option "-p".

Bien cordialement,
l0f4r0

Re: Please be respectful

[Leslie Rhorer]

On 10/17/2020 3:09 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 04:46:42PM -0500, Leslie Rhorer wrote:



On 10/16/2020 4:57 AM, Pierre-Elliott B�cue wrote:


[...]


This is nonsense.  Whenever I  forced to do something, or worse
yet, prevented from doing something by a consensus of incompetent
individuals, I have every right to complain.


... and when *you* get to decide who is to be "a consensus of
incompetent individuals" is the point where we part ways.


	A consensus is not a "who".  It is a thing.  In particular it is an 
explicit or implicit judgement concerning some topic.  It is a 
figurative vote concerning a specific idea.


	A single person - in this case me - never decides what a consensus is. 
By definition, a consensus is produced by a group, typically a large one.


	Finally, who is or is not competent can of course be opined by anyone, 
but in general such an opinion has greater weight from a professional 
than an amateur.  In many cases, such as this one, there are 
quantitative standards of measurement.  In short, anyone who falls 
significantly short of being a qualified expert in Linux fits the bill 
for this example.



Sorry, I'm a command line junkie myself, and I try to seduce
people to try that anytime I get a chance, but your stance above
can only be characterised as arrogant.


	OK.  So what?  Apparently you think there is something wrong with being 
arrogant, which by the way makes your comment a personal attack and 
something other than polite, but what is wrong with being arrogant?  One 
can argue, and I would tend to agree, there is something wrong with 
overweening arrogance unsupported by ability, but I find nothing wrong 
with arrogance in or of itself.



Feel free to ignore """lazy""" people from now on, but don't be
irrespectful to them.

You have no right to, and they don't deserve it.


There is no such word - or concept - as irrespectful [...]


C'mon. This is a mailing list in English, but its basis is very
international. You get to enjoy the fact that other people try
to adapt to your language as well as they can.


	What is your point?  There is nothing in the simple statement above 
that suggests I do not appreciate the fact others are  making an attempt 
to broaden their language skills.  Quite the opposite, the only rational 
deduction is I am attempting to help in their endeavor to do so.  My 
question to you is, "Why aren't you helping"?  Saying nothing in no way 
helps anyone improve their knowledge.




In this context, Postel's law [1] should apply (not only in
language things, mind you).


	I advise you not to push that button of mine.  I absolutely detest when 
people attempt to stretch perfectly rigid technical or scientific 
postulates to cover situations completely irrelevant to the law in 
question.  Postel's Robustness Principle concerns software protocols 
used by computing devices to transfer data.  I am not a computer.


> Go fix your error correction algorithm. A new prefix mapping (e.g.
> i -> dis, with the usual phonetic embellishments) might go a long
> way.

Don't be ridiculous.

Re: Please be respectful

[Leslie Rhorer]

On 10/17/2020 1:59 AM, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

On Vi, 16 oct 20, 16:46:42, Leslie Rhorer wrote:


On 10/16/2020 4:57 AM, Pierre-Elliott B�cue wrote:


Feel free to ignore """lazy""" people from now on, but don't be
irrespectful to them.

You have no right to, and they don't deserve it.


There is no such word - or concept - as irrespectful.


Please excuse us non-native English speakers for such mistakes. As far


	No excuse or apology is required.  The mistake was clearly an honest 
one.  I simply corrected it, just as I would expect and appreciate 
anyone else to do for me.



as I can tell Pierre-Elliot meant "rude".


	I think perhaps he meant "disrespectful", which is not quite the same 
as "rude"



The point you were
apparently trying to make, however, is just completely wrong.  I, and anyone
else, have every right to reserve my respect from whomever I choose.
Respect is *EARNED*. It is not a right and it is not a privilege.  Until
someone does earn respect, there is no reason anyone should afford it them.
It is utterly ridiculous to think everyone deserves respect.  If it is
afforded to everyone, then it becomes totally worthless.


This could be understood that in your opinion it is ok to be rude to a
person unless that person has somehow earned your respect.

Is this what you meant?


	It is neither what I said, nor what should properly be inferred from 
it.  As I already mentioned, there is a difference between rudeness and 
disrespect.  There is also a big difference between not respecting 
someone and being either rude or disrespectful to them.  I am not quite 
sure it is really ever OK to be rude.  I know it is never acceptable to 
engage in puerile behavior such as name-calling or ad hominem attacks.


	It is also a very different thing to reserve one's respect and one's 
opinions until someone has proven themselves than from engaging in a 
gratuitous, unprovoked verbal attack.  Please do not attempt to 
extrapolate from my statements beyond reasonable logical boundaries. 
For one thing, it is rude to do so.  (But not necessarily disrespectful.)

Re: Please be respectful

[Leslie Rhorer]

On 10/17/2020 12:39 AM, Weaver wrote:

On 17-10-2020 15:05, Michael uplawski wrote:

Leslie Rhorer:

Until someone does earn respect, there is no reason anyone
should afford it them.  It is utterly ridiculous to think everyone
deserves respect.


This is where you are excluding yourself from the human community. Face
it. Live with it. *We* will be fine, anyway.


Rubbish!


Indubitably.


There are certain qualities which must be extended before you are worthy
of receiving them, trust, loyalty, to mention a couple, but you can
throw respect in there also, along with one or two others.
I have to earn the respect of every child I meet, and maintain the
standard every time I encounter that child in the future.


	Absolutely.  Some folks, however, think we should respect those who 
sexually molest children, rather than cherish them.  They seem to think 
those who treat stupidity as a virtue should be held in the same regard 
as mental giants.  It is complete nonsense.



Some, in their retarded viewpoint, believe respect is something
engendered by social position.


	That is a little different than saying it is engendered by simply 
having a pulse, as some here are suggesting.



Wrong!


Yes.  I am not quite sure which is worse.


Social position is engendered by earned level of respect.


	If I take your meaning, then I disagree with you there.  "Social 
position" is just an idiotic notion of no particular value.  It is 
unimportant who or what one is.  It isn't all that important what one 
says.  All that is truly important is the things one does, with the most 
important being what one does for others.



`excluding yourself from the human community', what a load of puerile
ignorance!


	Puerile, certainly.  I am not sure "ignorance" is the best term, 
however.  "Foolishness" might be better.

Re: Please be respectful

[Leslie Rhorer]

On 10/17/2020 12:05 AM, Michael uplawski wrote:

Leslie Rhorer:

Until someone does earn respect, there is no reason anyone
should afford it them.  It is utterly ridiculous to think everyone
deserves respect.


This is where you are excluding yourself from the human community.


	'Not at all a bad idea, that.  Exactly what has the so-called "human 
community" ever done for me?  It has done more than a few highly 
objectionable, even potentially lethal things to me but nothing I can 
recall at the moment for me.


	Please recall for us what things it has ever done for you.  (Before you 
respond, remember a loving friend or relative, or even a decent stranger 
does not constitute the "human community".)



Face it.


Why should I?  Because you say so?


Live with it.


Why should I?  Because you say so?


*We* will be fine, anyway.


	Well Bully for you.  Who is "we", anyway?  The "human community"?  Do 
you fail to realize that includes people like Adolf Hitler, Charles 
Manson, Jeffrey Dahmer, Osama Bin Laden, Barack Obama, and Donald Trump? 
 I absolutely do wish to be excluded from any group containing any of 
them or anyone anything like them.  Feel free yourself to be considered 
in the same breath as they.  Do not expect me to respect them, certainly 
not just because you do.

Re: Please be respectful

[tomas]

On Sat, Oct 24, 2020 at 02:52:41AM -0500, Leslie Rhorer wrote:

[...]

>   A couple of decades ago I had to have spinal surgery [...]
> What he thought of me as a person was completely irrelevant.

Nice example. If you now try to abstract from it, that means
exactly that: whatever criteria each one choses to be important
is none of your (or my) business.

Our duty is to find ways of getting along together while trying
to respect this. Perhaps to someone else her physician's bedside
manners are more important that her own life? It's on us to
respect that.

Cheers
 - t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Please be respectful

[Leslie Rhorer]

On 10/15/2020 9:20 AM, Felmon Davis wrote:

On Thu, 15 Oct 2020, gru...@mailfence.com wrote:


Reading this thread reinforces just how old I am
The whole world seems to be wearing their feelings on the sleeve


I doubt it's age-related; many feel under threat for various reasons 
though maybe we don't always pick apt targets or choose apt remedies.


	Perhaps or perhaps not.  Certainly it has become popular to consider 
emotions and unsupported opinions to be important.  This thread would 
seem to be evidence of that.


	A couple of decades ago I had to have spinal surgery to try to 
eliminate paralysis and possibly even save my life.  My personal 
physician was recommending several surgeons.  At the top of her list was 
a surgeon of high qualifications.  She said, "He does not always have 
the best bedside manner."  What the @#%$ would I care what his bedside 
manner was?  I did not want him to be my best friend.  I wanted him to 
take a very sharp knife and cut deep into my throat without killing me. 
How he made me feel was completely irrelevant.  What he thought of me as 
a person was completely irrelevant.

Re: libXp -- was there a better way?

[Sven Joachim]

On 2020-10-23 23:53 +0100, Mark Fletcher wrote:

> I occasionally use a specialist piece of software called xephem, which
> is old but doesn't to my knowledge have a newer replacement that's 1% as
> good. I tried to fire it up the other night for the first time since I
> installed buster. It refused to run because libXp.so.6 was missing. A
> bit of googling showed me that this is an old, deprecated library for
> printing in X.

That is true, it is a client library for a server (xprint) which had
been removed from Debian a few years earlier.

> I couldn't run the execuable of xephem I had previously
> built and I couldn't build the latest version because of its expectation
> to find the include  which is provided by the same
> library... ("latest" version isn't very new...)

From 2015, I guess the xephem authors have stopped its development.

> libXp.so.6 was last in Debian in Jessie, in package libxp6. Looking at
> the dependencies of libxp6 in Jessie, they were all installed on my
> system (obviously newer versions) except multiarch-support. So I
> downloaded the package from Jessie and used gdebi to install it on my
> system. This worked, and now xephem runs.
>
> To avoid trouble when I next upgrade I propose from here to create a
> dummy package for xephem using equivs to register the dependency on
> libxp6, and then mark libxp6 as automatically installed, so the package
> manager in a future upgrade can figure out it can remove xephem's dummy
> package and thereby get rid of libxp6 if it causes conflicts.

Sounds like a good plan to me.

> I have no
> idea if xephem will now be able to print, but I don't care as I don't
> want to use its printing functionality, I only did any of this because
> the missing library was preventing it from starting.

I guess it won't be able to print because of the missing server, but
maybe I am wrong here.

> My question is, was there a better way to resolve this dependency? And,
> in a Buster system which has been installed not upgraded, am I in danger
> of creating trouble for myself by having this old package on my system?

Quite unlikely, the only problem is the missing security support for
this library and the software using it (i.e., xephem).

Cheers,
   Sven

Re: Qualité du chiffrement des archives 7z

[Belaïd]

Bonjour,

Si tu n'es pas sur de l'option -p de 7z (par manque d'information ou de
documentation) tu peux utiliser une solution déjà éprouvée et qui est
largement utilisée, avec openssl et du chiffrement symétrique.
Tu peux utiliser 7z pour compresser tes données et envoyer le résultat
(avec un pipe ) à la commande openssl aes256 par exemple (dans le cas où tu
veux utiliser un chiffrement AES)


Le sam. 24 oct. 2020 01:11, kaliderus  a écrit :

> Bonjour / bonsoir,
>
> J'envisage de faire quelques sauvegardes avec 7z et de les envoyer sur
> un serveur sur lequel j'ai la main, mais pas sur le réseau
> intermédiaire.
> Quel est la qualité du chiffrement de cet utilitaire avec le
> -p{password} précisé?
> Est-ce que les outils destinés à " tester la qualité du chiffrement "
> peuvent y venir à bout facilement ?
> Les archives en question contiennent entre autres des documents
> bancaires, comptables etc. bref un peu confidentiels.
>
> Sinon, avez-vous un autre outil à me conseiller pour ce type de besoin
> (en ligne de commande) ?
> Il y a pas mal de solution de chiffrement de fichiers visiblement, et
> j'avoue avoir un peu la flemme de tout tester.
>
> Merci bien !
>
>