How to report Debian ML SPAM.
(thread broken on purpose). 1. Never reply to SPAM in the Debian MLs, just report it as SPAM using the web interface. 2. If you need to talk about spam, open a new thread (as that thread will not be spam, although it *might* be quite off-topic). Doing it this way makes it easier/neater to clean up the archives. On Thu, 20 Apr 2017, fc wrote: > Actually -- does anyone monitor this list for this type of stuff? Everyone has that responsibility. Go to: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/recent find the offending post, and click on the "Report as SPAM" button. Also, please read this: https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/ The stuff you want is towards the end of that page. > *Even more so* -- it seems like unauthorized users can email this list? > Why not just restrict it to people who have subscribed? This is a long-time policy of most Debian MLs. -- Henrique Holschuh
Re: Liste debian et Spam.
On 2008-01-03 00:42:32 +0100, mouss wrote: En principe, à moins d'avoir explicitement désactivé le bloquage du port 25 sur la freebox (ou d'avoir une freebox qui n'a pas rebouté depuis plus d'un an), le port 25 est bloqué sauf pour smtp.free.fr. cela veut dire que la majorité des machines devrainet être bloquées. ce qui est en principe suffisant. mais comme je ne bosse pas chez free, je n'ai aucune idée si c'est tel est le cas (un utilisateur qui n'y comprend rien pourrait comprendre que le case sert à lui permettre d'envoyer du mail!). Suite à ton message, j'ai désactivé mes règles antispam concernant les adresses en fbx (et je les ai même mises en liste blanche en ajoutant [fbx] au sujet). C'est vrai que j'ai beaucoup moins de spam qu'avant sur ces adresses IP, juste 3 spams en une semaine, provenant de: bon78-1-88-180-200-124.fbx.proxad.net crv60-1-88-165-104-156.fbx.proxad.net vau75-2-81-57-244-126.fbx.proxad.net cette décision, qui laisse l'utilisateur décider d'envoyer directement est plutôt bonne. Oui, avec un blocage par défaut, car je vois mal l'utilisateur lambda qui va se faire pirater bloquer le port préventivement. -- Vincent Lefèvre [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Web: http://www.vinc17.org/ 100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: http://www.vinc17.org/blog/ Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / Arenaire project (LIP, ENS-Lyon) -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.net/?DebianFrench Vous pouvez aussi ajouter le mot ``spam'' dans vos champs From et Reply-To: To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Liste debian et Spam.
Am 2008-01-03 00:42:32, schrieb mouss: En principe, à moins d'avoir explicitement désactivé le bloquage du port 25 sur la freebox (ou d'avoir une freebox qui n'a pas rebouté depuis plus d'un an), le port 25 est bloqué sauf pour smtp.free.fr. Je utiliser le port 587 pour envoi mes messages via mon Serveur Mail... Le port 587 est PAS BLOQUÉE Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: Liste debian et Spam.
Michelle Konzack wrote: Am 2008-01-03 00:42:32, schrieb mouss: En principe, à moins d'avoir explicitement désactivé le bloquage du port 25 sur la freebox (ou d'avoir une freebox qui n'a pas rebouté depuis plus d'un an), le port 25 est bloqué sauf pour smtp.free.fr. Je utiliser le port 587 pour envoi mes messages via mon Serveur Mail... Le port 587 est PAS BLOQUÉE non, seul un ISP débile bloquerait ce port! le port 25 est bloqué par certains ISPs car les virus l'utilisent et c'est le port pour se connecter aux serveurs mail publics. alors que 587 ne permet de se connecter qu'à des serveurs qu'on connait., et ne représente donc pas de risque (pas plus que le port 22 par exemple). -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.net/?DebianFrench Vous pouvez aussi ajouter le mot ``spam'' dans vos champs From et Reply-To: To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Liste debian et Spam.
Bonjour a tous (et bonne annee) pourquoi tu ne mets pas un reverse DNS avec un domaine à toi (maison.homelinux.net par exemple)? L'argument du moment est que si on ne fait pas d'efforts pour mettre un rDNS non générique, alors on ne sait pas si ton IP change de main en main (on ne peut donc pas la mettre dans une liste blanche), et comme il y a pas mal de virus sur les réseaux maison, la seule façon de faire est de les bloquer (je ne suis ni pour ni contre, bien au contraire :). Excusez-moi par avance de la naiveté de ma question. Comment faire un reverse DNS avec DynDNS, quand on est chez un FAI, et que l'on a un compte DynDNS ? Je croyais que c'etait systematique ? -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.net/?DebianFrench Vous pouvez aussi ajouter le mot ``spam'' dans vos champs From et Reply-To: To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Liste debian et Spam.
Le Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:46:24 +0100 (CET) Debian liste FR [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit: Excusez-moi par avance de la naiveté de ma question. Comment faire un reverse DNS avec DynDNS, quand on est chez un FAI, et que l'on a un compte DynDNS ? Je croyais que c'etait systematique ? Chez free, on peut personaliser le reverse DNS (dans la console de gestion). François Boisson -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.net/?DebianFrench Vous pouvez aussi ajouter le mot ``spam'' dans vos champs From et Reply-To: To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Liste debian et Spam.
Debian liste FR wrote: Bonjour a tous (et bonne annee) pourquoi tu ne mets pas un reverse DNS avec un domaine à toi (maison.homelinux.net par exemple)? L'argument du moment est que si on ne fait pas d'efforts pour mettre un rDNS non générique, alors on ne sait pas si ton IP change de main en main (on ne peut donc pas la mettre dans une liste blanche), et comme il y a pas mal de virus sur les réseaux maison, la seule façon de faire est de les bloquer (je ne suis ni pour ni contre, bien au contraire :). Excusez-moi par avance de la naiveté de ma question. Comment faire un reverse DNS avec DynDNS, quand on est chez un FAI, et que l'on a un compte DynDNS ? Je croyais que c'etait systematique ? non, pour faire un rDNS conforme, il faut d'un coté: - que le propriétaire de l'IP soit d'accord - que le propriétaire du domaine soit d'accord donc, ça se fait en plusieurs étapes: 1- d'abord, mettre le forward: hostname - IP. 2- attendre que ça se propage. 3- demander la mise du reverse. chez free, la mise du reverse se fait dans l'interface d'admin de la freebox. il est conseillé de copier la valeur du reverse actuel, au cas où on regrette et qu'on ne veut plus de reverse custom (il suffit alors de remettre l'original). -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.net/?DebianFrench Vous pouvez aussi ajouter le mot ``spam'' dans vos champs From et Reply-To: To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Liste debian et Spam.
Pour les autres opérateurs, Il faut demander au support technique de ton FAI. Ils pourront te faire cela, théoriquement cela doit être une prestation gratuite. (bien sur il te faut une IP FIXE) alex Francois Boisson a écrit : Le Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:46:24 +0100 (CET) Debian liste FR [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit: Excusez-moi par avance de la naiveté de ma question. Comment faire un reverse DNS avec DynDNS, quand on est chez un FAI, et que l'on a un compte DynDNS ? Je croyais que c'etait systematique ? Chez free, on peut personaliser le reverse DNS (dans la console de gestion). François Boisson -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.net/?DebianFrench Vous pouvez aussi ajouter le mot ``spam'' dans vos champs From et Reply-To: To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Liste debian et Spam.
Bonjour Mouss, et merci de ta reponse. chez free, la mise du reverse se fait dans l'interface d'admin de la freebox. il est conseillé de copier la valeur du reverse actuel, au cas où on regrette et qu'on ne veut plus de reverse custom (il suffit alors de remettre l'original). Je viens de faire un tour sur l'interface de la FreeBox, et cela n'est pas proposé. Sans doute est-ce dû a l'IP dynamique et/ou au NON degroupage ... Tant pis. Merci qd meme. -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.net/?DebianFrench Vous pouvez aussi ajouter le mot ``spam'' dans vos champs From et Reply-To: To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Liste debian et Spam.
Le Wed, 02 Jan 2008 20:44:27 +0100 Mail Delivery System [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit: This message was created automatically by mail delivery software (Exim). A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: debian-user-french@lists.debian.org SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:debian-user-french@lists.debian.org: host liszt.debian.org [82.195.75.100]: 550 5.7.1 debian-user-french@lists.debian.org: Recipient address rejected: Mail appeared to be SPAM or forged. Ask your Mail/DNS-Administrator to correct HELO and DNS MX settings or to get removed from DNSBLs; in multi.surbl.org Bien évidemment je ne suis sur aucune liste noire. 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by relays.ordb.org 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by dnsbl.njabl.org 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by blacklist.spambag.org 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by opm.blitzed.org 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by will-spam-for-food.eu.org 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by sbl.spamhaus.org 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by bl.Spamcop.net 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by cbl.abuseat.org 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by www.abhl.org 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by map.spam-rbl.com 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by l1.spews.dnsbl.sorbs.net 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by l2.spews.dnsbl.sorbs.net Le problème est le suivant: Si je programme exim pour que mon SMTP porte le même nom que le reverse DNS (à savoir alf94-3-82-66-248-156.fbx.proxad.net, je suis considéré comme un spammeur par la liste. Si je met un nom de domaine tout à fait acceptable avec un DNS adequat, je me fais désormais jeter comme spammeur n'ayant pas le même nom. Bref, il semble que pour écrire à la liste Debian -théoriquement poussant au libre et militant pour le libre choix- il faille désormais systématiquement passer par un SMTP prétendument institutionnel (Free en l'occurrence). Le paradoxe est que hotmail devient plus «coulant» de ce coté. La liste debian démarre vraiment bien la nouvelle année. Bonne année à tous François Boisson -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.net/?DebianFrench Vous pouvez aussi ajouter le mot ``spam'' dans vos champs From et Reply-To: To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Liste debian et Spam.
Francois Boisson wrote: Le Wed, 02 Jan 2008 20:44:27 +0100 Mail Delivery System [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit: This message was created automatically by mail delivery software (Exim). A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: debian-user-french@lists.debian.org SMTP error from remote mailer after RCPT TO:debian-user-french@lists.debian.org: host liszt.debian.org [82.195.75.100]: 550 5.7.1 debian-user-french@lists.debian.org: Recipient address rejected: Mail appeared to be SPAM or forged. Ask your Mail/DNS-Administrator to correct HELO and DNS MX settings or to get removed from DNSBLs; in multi.surbl.org c'est un message de policyd-weight. Bien évidemment je ne suis sur aucune liste noire. 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by relays.ordb.org celle-la est morte de toute façon. ceux qui l'utilisent devraient se réveiller... 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by dnsbl.njabl.org 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by blacklist.spambag.org 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by opm.blitzed.org celle-la aussi est morte. 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by will-spam-for-food.eu.org paix à son ame aussi. 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by sbl.spamhaus.org il faut tester sur zen.spamhaus.org. ton IP n'y est pas. 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by bl.Spamcop.net 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by cbl.abuseat.org c'est inclus dans zen.spamhaus.org (via xbl.spamhaus.org) 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by www.abhl.org tu veux dire ahbl.org? 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by map.spam-rbl.com si la liste utilise celle-la, je me désabonne de suite 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by l1.spews.dnsbl.sorbs.net 82.66.248.156 not RBL filtered by l2.spews.dnsbl.sorbs.net de même, ton IP n'est pas sur dsbl.org ni manitu.net (qui sont dans la config par défaut de policyd-weight): ton IP est listée sur http://moensted.dk/spam/no-more-funn/ et sur http://spamcannibal.org/cannibal.cgi mais ces listes ne sont pas vraiment super utilisées... (en tout cas, elles ne sont pas dans la conf par défaut de policyd-weight). Le problème est le suivant: Si je programme exim pour que mon SMTP porte le même nom que le reverse DNS (à savoir alf94-3-82-66-248-156.fbx.proxad.net, je suis considéré comme un spammeur par la liste. ça c'est bizarre. Si je met un nom de domaine tout à fait acceptable avec un DNS adequat, je me fais désormais jeter comme spammeur n'ayant pas le même nom. ça c'est dans policyd-weight. je l'avais testé pendant un moment et sa vérification du helo posait problème (exactmenet comme dans ton cas). comme j'avais pas tellement envie de changer les scores, je l'ai juste viré... Bref, il semble que pour écrire à la liste Debian -théoriquement poussant au libre et militant pour le libre choix- il faille désormais systématiquement passer par un SMTP prétendument institutionnel (Free en l'occurrence). qui a été dernièrement listé sur sorbs! (tout comme orange et certainement les autres FAIs français). pourquoi tu ne mets pas un reverse DNS avec un domaine à toi (maison.homelinux.net par exemple)? L'argument du moment est que si on ne fait pas d'efforts pour mettre un rDNS non générique, alors on ne sait pas si ton IP change de main en main (on ne peut donc pas la mettre dans une liste blanche), et comme il y a pas mal de virus sur les réseaux maison, la seule façon de faire est de les bloquer (je ne suis ni pour ni contre, bien au contraire :). Le paradoxe est que hotmail devient plus «coulant» de ce coté. La liste debian démarre vraiment bien la nouvelle année. peut-etre est-ce une réaction au surplus de spam qu'on a vu dernièrement. je pense que des règles spamassassin seraient plus adéquates. Bonne année à tous idem pareil François Boisson -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.net/?DebianFrench Vous pouvez aussi ajouter le mot ``spam'' dans vos champs From et Reply-To: To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Liste debian et Spam.
Le Wed, 02 Jan 2008 22:15:45 +0100 mouss [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit: pourquoi tu ne mets pas un reverse DNS avec un domaine à toi (maison.homelinux.net par exemple)? L'argument du moment est que si on ne fait pas d'efforts pour mettre un rDNS non générique, alors on ne sait pas si ton IP change de main en main (on ne peut donc pas la mettre dans une liste blanche), et comme il y a pas mal de virus sur les réseaux maison, la seule façon de faire est de les bloquer (je ne suis ni pour ni contre, bien au contraire :). 1) Ce n'est *pas* dans les RFC, c'est une exigence de hotmail au démarrage, suivi par noos, club-internet etc. Depuis, noos et bien d'autres dont je crois bien hotmail ont mis de l'eau dans leur vin et sont moins exigeants, se rendant compte que ça ne sert à rien. 2) Tous les FAI ne le permettent pas. Je l'ai fait pour un autre domaine dont je m'occupe parce qu'on peut le faire chez Free mais ça me parait une exigence non justifiée et que ne peut suivre tout le monde. 3) Cela signifierait que tout monde dans ma famille surferait de manière non anonyme. Ça me gène d'imposer ça et je trouve paradoxal et décevant que ça soit la liste debian qui m'impose cela. François Boisson -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.net/?DebianFrench Vous pouvez aussi ajouter le mot ``spam'' dans vos champs From et Reply-To: To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Liste debian et Spam.
On 2008-01-02 21:09:37 +0100, Francois Boisson wrote: Le problème est le suivant: Si je programme exim pour que mon SMTP porte le même nom que le reverse DNS (à savoir alf94-3-82-66-248-156.fbx.proxad.net, je suis considéré comme un spammeur par la liste. Si je met un nom de domaine tout à fait acceptable avec un DNS adequat, je me fais désormais jeter comme spammeur n'ayant pas le même nom. Le problème vient peut-être que tu postes directement depuis une machine en *.fbx.proxad.net. Vu le nombre de spams qui proviennent de ces machines, ça ne m'étonnerait pas que toutes ces adresses soient blacklistées dans pas mal d'endroits. Il faudrait peut-être que Free fasse le ménage... -- Vincent Lefèvre [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Web: http://www.vinc17.org/ 100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: http://www.vinc17.org/blog/ Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / Arenaire project (LIP, ENS-Lyon) -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.net/?DebianFrench Vous pouvez aussi ajouter le mot ``spam'' dans vos champs From et Reply-To: To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Liste debian et Spam.
Vincent Lefevre wrote: On 2008-01-02 21:09:37 +0100, Francois Boisson wrote: Le problème est le suivant: Si je programme exim pour que mon SMTP porte le même nom que le reverse DNS (à savoir alf94-3-82-66-248-156.fbx.proxad.net, je suis considéré comme un spammeur par la liste. Si je met un nom de domaine tout à fait acceptable avec un DNS adequat, je me fais désormais jeter comme spammeur n'ayant pas le même nom. Le problème vient peut-être que tu postes directement depuis une machine en *.fbx.proxad.net. Vu le nombre de spams qui proviennent de ces machines, ça ne m'étonnerait pas que toutes ces adresses soient blacklistées dans pas mal d'endroits. Il faudrait peut-être que Free fasse le ménage... En principe, à moins d'avoir explicitement désactivé le bloquage du port 25 sur la freebox (ou d'avoir une freebox qui n'a pas rebouté depuis plus d'un an), le port 25 est bloqué sauf pour smtp.free.fr. cela veut dire que la majorité des machines devrainet être bloquées. ce qui est en principe suffisant. mais comme je ne bosse pas chez free, je n'ai aucune idée si c'est tel est le cas (un utilisateur qui n'y comprend rien pourrait comprendre que le case sert à lui permettre d'envoyer du mail!). cette décision, qui laisse l'utilisateur décider d'envoyer directement est plutôt bonne. Il y a pas mal de boites qui sont derrière une freebox, et rien ne dit qu'ils envoient plus de spam que les autres! -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.net/?DebianFrench Vous pouvez aussi ajouter le mot ``spam'' dans vos champs From et Reply-To: To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Liste debian et Spam.
Francois Boisson wrote: Le Wed, 02 Jan 2008 22:15:45 +0100 mouss [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit: pourquoi tu ne mets pas un reverse DNS avec un domaine à toi (maison.homelinux.net par exemple)? L'argument du moment est que si on ne fait pas d'efforts pour mettre un rDNS non générique, alors on ne sait pas si ton IP change de main en main (on ne peut donc pas la mettre dans une liste blanche), et comme il y a pas mal de virus sur les réseaux maison, la seule façon de faire est de les bloquer (je ne suis ni pour ni contre, bien au contraire :). 1) Ce n'est *pas* dans les RFC, l'interdiction du open relay non plus (du moins il n'est pas dans la 821, qui est encore le standard). c'est une exigence de hotmail au démarrage, suivi par noos, club-internet etc. Depuis, noos et bien d'autres dont je crois bien hotmail ont mis de l'eau dans leur vin et sont moins exigeants, se rendant compte que ça ne sert à rien. c'est surtout AOL qui a popularisé cette mesure. hotmail sont encore à la ramasse question mail (il y a beaucoup de mails qui disparaissent...). AOL sont passés de gros spameurs à anti-spameur. on ne peut que les féliciter (d'avoir fait qqchose contre le spam venant de leurs abonnés), malgré ce qu'on en pense;-p 2) Tous les FAI ne le permettent pas. Je l'ai fait pour un autre domaine dont je m'occupe parce qu'on peut le faire chez Free mais ça me parait une exigence non justifiée et que ne peut suivre tout le monde. Je comprends bien et je trouve ça triste, mais il y a un problème: la majorité des abonnés ne compennent rien à l'informatique, installent windows parce que c'est facile (ou parce que je le veau bien:), se font emprunter leurs machine par les méchants et ces derniers monopolisent le service mail. et les botnets sont devenus super avancés maintenant (question P2P et distribués, ils sont en avance...). si on utilise p0f ou équivalent, on pourrait ne bloquer que les machines windows. mais pour l'instant, c'est pas à la mode. Idéalement, il faudrait une liste blanche de serveur gérés de façon responsable, mais faut des volontaires;-p 3) Cela signifierait que tout monde dans ma famille surferait de manière non anonyme. c'est vrai. du coup, il te reste le choix entre payer pour un domaine anonyme (je crois que ça coute plus cher qu'un domaine normal) ou passer par smtp.free.fr, du moins pour les sites qui te bloquent. Pour la liste, il faut voir avec les admins... Ça me gène d'imposer ça et je trouve paradoxal et décevant que ça soit la liste debian qui m'impose cela. j'espère que ce n'est pas volontaire. d'autant que ça laisse passer pas mal de spams. -- Lisez la FAQ de la liste avant de poser une question : http://wiki.debian.net/?DebianFrench Vous pouvez aussi ajouter le mot ``spam'' dans vos champs From et Reply-To: To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
on Sat, Nov 13, 2004 at 06:04:57PM -0500, Carl Fink ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Sat, Nov 13, 2004 at 12:15:00PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: I tend to prefer real email management over fake email address hacks. Keeps everything simpler, makes the spam easier to report, etc. Who are you reporting spam to, anyway? I'd like to contribute but I'm woefully out-of-touch. Personally, my own recommendation would be that you don't. It's a lot of traffic, and you have to deal with massive amounts of unreachable addresses, etc. Not to mention false hits. That said, I do it, and have written tools to do same: http://linuxmafia.com/~karsten/Downloads/SpamTools.tar.gz Scripts are defanged by default, some of the configurations are specific to my own needs, you *will* shoot yourself in the foot, but if you want to report spam at a rate of one per 20-40 seconds, this will do it. I've reported some 55k+ spams so far since March. For a simpler solution, SpamCop works well. My own main interests are: - Finding out where spam comes from (Korea, China, SBC). Fully 15% (more or less) comes from one network, 25% from the top 3-5 networks. - Finding out what DNSBLs are accurate (SpamCop, SpamHaus), a few others. - Finding out if reporting cuts the spam load (not much). The most useful thing I've found is the DNS-based IP to ASN / CIDR mapping resource at http://www.routeviews.org/. This lets you aggregate spam to a high level and identify trends, very readily. More stats and stuff on my homepage (below), and by Googling spam by asn, particularly on the linux-elitists mailing list. Upshot of all of this: a soon-to-be-released version of SpamAssassin should be incorporating ASN and/or CIDR classification for automated scoring on these characteristics. I'd like to see MTAs and firewalls pick up similar capabilities. Peace. -- Karsten M. Self [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://kmself.home.netcom.com/ What Part of Gestalt don't you understand? MX Radio - With Bob Edwards, who needs NPR? http://www.xmradio.com/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Debian and spam
Karsten M. Self([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said: on Sat, Nov 13, 2004 at 06:04:57PM -0500, Carl Fink ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Sat, Nov 13, 2004 at 12:15:00PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: I tend to prefer real email management over fake email address hacks. Keeps everything simpler, makes the spam easier to report, etc. Who are you reporting spam to, anyway? I'd like to contribute but I'm woefully out-of-touch. Personally, my own recommendation would be that you don't. It's a lot of traffic, and you have to deal with massive amounts of unreachable addresses, etc. Not to mention false hits. That said, I do it, and have written tools to do same: http://linuxmafia.com/~karsten/Downloads/SpamTools.tar.gz HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found Do you have another URL Karsten? WT -- Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that can't stand 1 bit of competition. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
On Tue, Nov 23, 2004 at 06:41:22AM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote: Personally, my own recommendation would be that you don't. Sound advice, considering how lazy I am. - Finding out what DNSBLs are accurate (SpamCop, SpamHaus), a few others. I'm not sure what you mean by accurate in this context, but to the best of my knowledge cbl.abuseat.org has had ZERO false positives in the several months I've used it at iconsf.org. -- Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabootu's Minister of Proofreading http://www.jabootu.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
Incoming from Wayne Topa: Karsten M. Self([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said: http://linuxmafia.com/~karsten/Downloads/SpamTools.tar.gz HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found Do you have another URL Karsten? At one time, http://linuxmafia.com/~karsten/Download/SpamTools.tar.gz worked (s/Downloads/Download/). -- Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. (*)http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling Please don't Cc: me. - - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
s. keeling([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said: Incoming from Wayne Topa: Karsten M. Self([EMAIL PROTECTED]) is reported to have said: http://linuxmafia.com/~karsten/Downloads/SpamTools.tar.gz HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 404 Not Found Do you have another URL Karsten? At one time, http://linuxmafia.com/~karsten/Download/SpamTools.tar.gz worked (s/Downloads/Download/). Good catch! That was it, Thanks.. WT -- Windows is NOT a virus. Viruses DO something. ___ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
On Sun, 2004-11-14 at 21:32, s. keeling wrote: for f in cur/*; do perl adcomplain.pl $f .. done You can fix that with chmod: chmod 744 adcomplain.pl Already done. No, the reason I need to specify perl is that the first line of adcomplain.pl is a shell hash-bang #!/bin/sh -- # -*- perl -*- and bash does not like it: ~/spam$ ./adcomplain.pl --help : invalid option- perl -*- even though the perl.com documentation at http://gershwin.ens.fr/vdaniel/Doc-Locale/Outils-Gnu-Linux/Perl/Html-Doc-at-www.perl.com/perlrun.html suggests that it should be OK: quote Parsing of the #! switches starts wherever ``perl'' is mentioned in the line. The sequences ``-*'' and ``- '' are specifically ignored so that you could, if you were so inclined, say #!/bin/sh -- # -*- perl -*- -p /quote and move adcomplain.pl to one of the dirs in your PATH. You may need to rehash for it to take effect, depending on the shell you use. According to Google, rehash is a Linux/Unix command; but I cannot find it on my system. Perhaps it has been deprecated? ... Assuming adcomplain.pl is smart enough to recognize forged sender addresses. If it's not smart enough, you'll end up reporting forgeries to the ISPs of innocent bystanders. I don't know if adcomplain is smart enough; don't know, never used it. Spamcop isn't tricked by forgeries. Adcomplain should be smart enough. It uses the mail forwarding service at abuse.net. (You have to register first.) So if rr.com is the problem, Adcomplain sends the email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] This ensures that the best known complaint address is used. If adcomplain is smart enough, then it has one advantage over Spamcop. You can report viruses, which Spamcop doesn't allow. I am not sure that Adcomplain can do this. If you are outside the USA, you can use the -l switch to avoid cc-ing [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:09:26 +, Chris Lale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to Google, rehash is a Linux/Unix command; but I cannot find it on my system. Perhaps it has been deprecated? It's a csh-ism. If you're using a sh-derivative (eg, bash), you shouldn't need to do anything. My experience has always been that when a new executable is added to my path, bash finds it. I would guess that it does some sort of hashing implicitly, and the change to the directory marks the cached info as dirty. -- Michael A. Marsh http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~mmarsh -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 09:26 -0500, Michael Marsh wrote: On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:09:26 +, Chris Lale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to Google, rehash is a Linux/Unix command; but I cannot find it on my system. Perhaps it has been deprecated? It's a csh-ism. If you're using a sh-derivative (eg, bash), you shouldn't need to do anything. My experience has always been that when a new executable is added to my path, bash finds it. I would guess that it does some sort of hashing implicitly, and the change to the directory marks the cached info as dirty. I think the bash equivalent is 'hash -r' -- Mark Janssen -- maniac(at)maniac.nl Unix / Linux, Open-Source and Internet Consultant PGP: 0x357D2178 Skype: markmjanssen ICQ: 129696007 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Debian and spam
On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 14:37, Mark Janssen wrote: On Mon, 2004-11-15 at 09:26 -0500, Michael Marsh wrote: On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:09:26 +, Chris Lale [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: According to Google, rehash is a Linux/Unix command; but I cannot find it on my system. Perhaps it has been deprecated? It's a csh-ism. If you're using a sh-derivative (eg, bash), you shouldn't need to do anything. My experience has always been that when a new executable is added to my path, bash finds it. I would guess that it does some sort of hashing implicitly, and the change to the directory marks the cached info as dirty. I think the bash equivalent is 'hash -r' Ah, yes. Its in the bash(1) man page. I've never had to use it though. Chris. -- Chris Lale [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
Joao Clemente [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: William Ballard wrote: Including nospam in your email name helps a lot. And how do you subscribe to the list with nospam in the e-mail address?!? You'll never receive an e-mail to that address! You could make a username with nospam in it. Then you can receive email to it. -- Johan KULLSTAM -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 23:04, Carl Fink wrote: On Sat, Nov 13, 2004 at 12:15:00PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: I tend to prefer real email management over fake email address hacks. Keeps everything simpler, makes the spam easier to report, etc. Who are you reporting spam to, anyway? I'd like to contribute but I'm woefully out-of-touch. OK, this looks like a Good Idea. So I got hold of the adcomplain Perl script from http://www.rdrop.com/users/billmc/adcomplain.html. I pipe a spam message to it cat spam-file | perl adcomplain.pl and if finds the originator, generates the complaint message and prompts before sending. Excellent. Good so far, but my spam is kept in mbox format (for teaching Spamassassin and reporting to Razor). I can convert the mbox file into maildir files with mb2md (from Testing). The files are in a subdirectory called cur with names like these: 1100447087.00.mbox:2,S 1100447087.01.mbox:2,S 1100447087.02.mbox:2,S I can do cat 1100447087.00.mbox:2,S | perl adcomplain.pl When finished with the first message I can up-arrow, change the final 0 to a 1 and repeat. Is there a simple way to automate this with a bash script? I imagine something looking in the subdirectory, piping the first file to adcomplain.pl, then piping the next file when adcomplain.pl has finished. And so un until all files in the subdirectory have been processed. Any ideas? Chris. -- Chris Lale [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
Incoming from Chris Lale: On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 23:04, Carl Fink wrote: On Sat, Nov 13, 2004 at 12:15:00PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: I tend to prefer real email management over fake email address hacks. Keeps everything simpler, makes the spam easier to report, etc. Who are you reporting spam to, anyway? I'd like to contribute but I'm woefully out-of-touch. OK, this looks like a Good Idea. So I got hold of the adcomplain Perl script from http://www.rdrop.com/users/billmc/adcomplain.html. I pipe a spam message to it cat spam-file | perl adcomplain.pl Useless use of cat. The adcomplain documentation says: adcomplain file maildir files with mb2md (from Testing). The files are in a subdirectory called cur with names like these: 1100447087.00.mbox:2,S 1100447087.01.mbox:2,S 1100447087.02.mbox:2,S # untested! # for f in cur/1100447087.00.mbox*; do adcomplain.pl $f done I haven't used adcomplain, so ymmv. Consider going to Spamcop.net, getting a _free_ spam reporting address, and sending your Spam to them. They'll analyze it to death and mail you back a URL where you can go to see what they came up with, and finish (or cancel) the report depending on what they found. If you go that way, they have a perl script you can use to auto-report Spam. -- Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. (*)http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling Please don't Cc: me. - - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
On Sun, 2004-11-14 at 17:21, s. keeling wrote: Incoming from Chris Lale: On Sat, 2004-11-13 at 23:04, Carl Fink wrote: On Sat, Nov 13, 2004 at 12:15:00PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: I tend to prefer real email management over fake email address hacks. Keeps everything simpler, makes the spam easier to report, etc. Who are you reporting spam to, anyway? I'd like to contribute but I'm woefully out-of-touch. OK, this looks like a Good Idea. So I got hold of the adcomplain Perl script from http://www.rdrop.com/users/billmc/adcomplain.html. I pipe a spam message to it cat spam-file | perl adcomplain.pl Useless use of cat. The adcomplain documentation says: adcomplain file maildir files with mb2md (from Testing). The files are in a subdirectory called cur with names like these: 1100447087.00.mbox:2,S 1100447087.01.mbox:2,S 1100447087.02.mbox:2,S # untested! # for f in cur/1100447087.00.mbox*; do adcomplain.pl $f done Thanks! Works with slight modification: for f in cur/*; do perl adcomplain.pl $f done I haven't used adcomplain, so ymmv. Consider going to Spamcop.net, getting a _free_ spam reporting address, and sending your Spam to them. They'll analyze it to death and mail you back a URL where you can go to see what they came up with, and finish (or cancel) the report depending on what they found. If you go that way, they have a perl script you can use to auto-report Spam. OK. It seems that I could use Spamcop.net to provide a blacklist for Spamassassin. This would basically improve my filtering. Actually, the Spamassassin wiki indicates that blacklisting is already built in for a number of DNSBLs including Spamcop (http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists). Probably, I just need to enable it somewhere. I am already using Vipul's Razor which is a non-commercial collaborative database which seems to do something similar, although it is not a DNS blacklist. The reason that I was interested in Adcomplain is that you identify and report direct to the originator's ISP. This was the argument put forward by http://www.interhack.net/pubs/munging-harmful/ earlier in the thread. This means an investment of time, but I can now automate the process sufficiently to make this feasible for each spam message that has slipped through the filtering process. # script fragment to convert mbox spam file to separate files # in subdir cur mb2md -s \ /home/chris/evolution/local/Inbox/subfolders/SPAM-to-report/mbox -d spam # script fragment to set environment for adcomplain.pl export ADCOMPLAIN_MDOMAIN=mydomain export [EMAIL PROTECTED] #script fragment to process maildir format messages in subdir cur. for f in cur/*; do perl adcomplain.pl $f done -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
Incoming from Chris Lale: On Sun, 2004-11-14 at 17:21, s. keeling wrote: [snip] Thanks! Works with slight modification: for f in cur/*; do perl adcomplain.pl $f .. done You can fix that with chmod: chmod 744 adcomplain.pl and move adcomplain.pl to one of the dirs in your PATH. You may need to rehash for it to take effect, depending on the shell you use. I haven't used adcomplain, so ymmv. Consider going to Spamcop.net, The reason that I was interested in adcomplain is that you identify and report direct to the originator's ISP. This was the argument put forward ... Assuming adcomplain.pl is smart enough to recognize forged sender addresses. If it's not smart enough, you'll end up reporting forgeries to the ISPs of innocent bystanders. I don't know if adcomplain is smart enough; don't know, never used it. Spamcop isn't tricked by forgeries. If adcomplain is smart enough, then it has one advantage over Spamcop. You can report viruses, which Spamcop doesn't allow. -- Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. (*)http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling Please don't Cc: me. - - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 John Hannibal Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Am I safe from getting spam on this list? Nope, this is an open list, spammers often post to the list. Whether or not SPI has any luck collecting advertising fees from the spammers is another question. Will my e-mail address ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) be sold or distributed? Sold, no. Distributed? Well, you just emailed thousands of people and added your message to dozens of archives... -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBlmsKUzgNqloQMwcRAipYAKCn5oGtJAG7HKMM/7hwtyJ1pE1PqACdFoOD BsjcX45KNptUKjskhiZ/fmk= =iheq -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michael Marsh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:48:16 -0500, John Hannibal Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am I safe from getting spam on this list? Will my e-mail address ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) be sold or distributed? All mail to this list is archived on the web, so your email address *will* be harvested by spammers. Having posted, the genie is basically already out of the bottle. That's why I got a Gmail account -- the traffic and spam to it don't interfere with my real account. I tend to prefer real email management over fake email address hacks. Keeps everything simpler, makes the spam easier to report, etc. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBlmtEUzgNqloQMwcRArkdAJ9Aq+97Xwos/ryffSry4QkNyCoA2QCgw+dR st/lcnysyQVAzbEYdqTVfRE= =N3+5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 William Ballard [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Including nospam in your email name helps a lot. http://www.interhack.net/pubs/munging-harmful/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBlmthUzgNqloQMwcRAlBYAJ97dZK0SZGzMsbryE2lo+aiqVeriQCgzrPO bdTFc/qK2nw0mLnMNsXTCJU= =BZoX -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 16:03, Clive Menzies wrote: Below are a range of packages that deal with spam: gotmail - Utility to download email from a Hotmail or MSN account Also, in testing and unstable: hotway - acts like a pop3 server, but actually goes to hotmail.com to retrieve requested mail. -- Chris Lale [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
On Sat, Nov 13, 2004 at 12:15:29PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: William Ballard [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Including nospam in your email name helps a lot. http://www.interhack.net/pubs/munging-harmful/ Sure, but I don't think this is a munge - I understood his post to mean that [EMAIL PROTECTED] was actually his real email address, but the presence of the nospam bit fools [some] automated address-harvesting tools into either ignoring it, or perhaps removing the nospam bit which then results in an invalid address. -- Pigeon Be kind to pigeons Get my GPG key here: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x21C61F7F signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Debian and spam
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Johnson wrote: | William Ballard [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: | | |Including nospam in your email name helps a lot. | | | http://www.interhack.net/pubs/munging-harmful/ While I agree that address munging is Not A Good Thing, I find the attempt to draw parallels between spamming and terrorism in that article inaccurate and offensive. I wonder what the author thinks about spam filtering (which happens to be my favorite method to deal with UCE). - --j -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBlpDWYFE+dpEf2hQRAqyBAJ9rNwScG2eFAcOVgNB8/xdYHcNhjQCgiCmP kJi4hV5Zojrc49z+NQ0a7us= =w7+b -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
On Sat, Nov 13, 2004 at 12:15:00PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: I tend to prefer real email management over fake email address hacks. Keeps everything simpler, makes the spam easier to report, etc. Who are you reporting spam to, anyway? I'd like to contribute but I'm woefully out-of-touch. -- Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabootu's Minister of Proofreading http://www.jabootu.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Sat, Nov 13, 2004 at 12:15:00PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: I tend to prefer real email management over fake email address hacks. Keeps everything simpler, makes the spam easier to report, etc. Who are you reporting spam to, anyway? I'd like to contribute but I'm woefully out-of-touch. Well, the hosting networks, of course. Though spamcop.net automates the process greatly and explains it in more detail. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBlpx7UzgNqloQMwcRAmbjAKDl9le+xSDs6+rK5rVW4x3xXfhJbwCgl2QF e/6GYYubCYZ6CNu5kBl13pY= =z+he -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
On Sat, Nov 13, 2004 at 03:44:59PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote: Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Who are you reporting spam to, anyway? I'd like to contribute but I'm woefully out-of-touch. Well, the hosting networks, of course. Though spamcop.net automates the process greatly and explains it in more detail. I was thinking of Razor or Pyzor or somesuch. -- Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jabootu's Minister of Proofreading http://www.jabootu.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Debian and spam
Hi everyone, Am I safe from getting spam on this list? Will my e-mail address ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) be sold or distributed? Just curious! Thanks! John -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:48:16 -0500, John Hannibal Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am I safe from getting spam on this list? Will my e-mail address ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) be sold or distributed? All mail to this list is archived on the web, so your email address *will* be harvested by spammers. Having posted, the genie is basically already out of the bottle. That's why I got a Gmail account -- the traffic and spam to it don't interfere with my real account. -- Michael A. Marsh http://www.umiacs.umd.edu/~mmarsh -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
On (12/11/04 10:48), John Hannibal Smith wrote: Hi everyone, Am I safe from getting spam on this list? Will my e-mail address ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) be sold or distributed? Just curious! Thanks! No it won't be sold or distributed but spammers harvest mailing list archives and news groups for email addresses and now that you've posted to the list, your address is out there. The good news is that there are many ways of dealing with spam using Debian, even so far as blocking it at smtp time and so most of it never reaches your machine. Below are a range of packages that deal with spam: amavis-stats - Virus statistics RRDtool frontend for Amavis amavisd-new - Interface between MTA and virus scanner/content filters amavisd-new-milter - Interface between sendmail-milter and amavisd-new bld - Black List Daemon, automatically build blacklists bogofilter - a fast Bayesian spam filter bsfilter - Bayesian spam filter crm114 - The Controllable Regex Mutilator and Spam Filter dcc-client - Distributed Checksum Clearinghouse - client programs dcc-common - Distributed Checksum Clearinghouse - common files dcc-milter - Distributed Checksum Clearinghouse - sendmail milter plugin dcc-server - Distributed Checksum Clearinghouse - server programs drac - Dynamic Relay Authorization Control (pop-before-smtp) drac-dev - Dynamic Relay Authorization Control (development files) exim - An MTA (Mail Transport Agent) exim4-base - EXperimental Internal Mailer -- a Mail Transport Agent exim4-daemon-heavy - Exim (v4) with extended features, including exiscan-acl gnus-bonus-el - Miscellaneous add-ons for Gnus gotmail - Utility to download email from a Hotmail or MSN account graphdefang - create graphs of your mimedefang spam and virus logs greylistd - Simple greylisting daemon for use with Exim other MTAs hashcash - postage payment scheme for email based on hash calculations hinfo - Check address ownership and DNSBL listings for spam reporting ifile - a text/e-mail/spam filter capable of learning ifile-gnus-el - a news and mail classifier for the Gnus newsreader ilohamail - Light weight yet full featured multilingual web-based IMAP/POP3 client ircd-hybrid - High-performance secure IRC server lg-issue62 - Issue 62 of the Linux Gazette. lg-issue66 - Issue 66 of the Linux Gazette. lg-issue67 - Issue 67 of the Linux Gazette. lg-issue86 - Issue 86 of the Linux Gazette. libmail-bulkmail-perl - Platform independent mailing list module libnet-smtp-server-perl - A native Perl SMTP Server implementation libroxen-cloakingdevice - Mailto mutilation module for the Roxen Challenger web server libroxen-mailcloak - Mail cloak module for the Roxen Challenger web server libspf2-0 - Sender Policy Framework library, written in C libspf2-dev - Header and development libraries for libspf2 libsrs2-0 - SRS email address rewriting engine libsrs2-dev - Development tools for the libsrs2 licq-plugin-jonsgtk - graphical user interface plug-in for Licq using GTK+ listadmin - command line mailman moderator queue manipulation mailfilter - A program that filters your incoming e-mail to help remove spam mailman - Powerful, web-based mailing list manager mailscanner - An email virus scanner and spam tagger messagewall - An SMTP proxy daemon, designed to help keep out unwanted email mh-e - Emacs interface to the MH mail system opensp - OpenJade group's SGML parsing tools p3scan - transparent POP3-proxy with virus- and spam-scanning pimppa - powerful tool to loot binaries from newsgroups smartly pop-before-smtp - watch log for POP/IMAP auth, notify MTA to allow relay pop3browser - Allows to check a pop3 mailbox before downloading any mail popfile - email classification tool postgrey - Greylisting implementation for Postfix proxycheck - checks existence of open proxy python2.3-spambayes - Python-based spam filter using statistical analysis (2.3.x) pyzor - spam-catcher using a collaborative filtering network razor - spam-catcher using a collaborative filtering network sa-exim - Use spamAssassin at SMTP time with the Exim v4 MTA sauce - SMTP defence software against spam sendmail - A powerful, efficient, and scalable Mail Transport Agent sendmail-bin - A powerful, efficient, and scalable Mail Transport Agent sim - Simple Instant Messenger smtp-refuser - Simple spam-block with refusal message smtpd - Mail proxy for firewalls with anti-spam and anti-relay features sp - James Clark's SGML parsing tools spamass-milter - sendmail milter for filtering mail through spamassassin spamassassin - Perl-based spam filter using text analysis spambayes - Python-based spam filter using statistical analysis spamc - Client for SpamAssassin spam filtering daemon spamoracle - A statistical analysis spam filter based on Bayes' formula spamoracle-byte - A statistical analysis spam filter based on Bayes' formula spampd - a spamassassin based SMTP/LMTP proxy daemon spamprobe - a C++ Bayesian spam filter sugarplum - an automated and intelligent spam trap/cache-poisoner sylpheed-claws
Re: Debian and spam
Incoming from John Hannibal Smith: Am I safe from getting spam on this list? Nope. The list does stop a lot of spam, but some does still come through. Will my e-mail address ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) be sold or distributed? Probably, and now that you've posted it, it's available to anyone who looks in lists.debian.org archives. Hiding from spammers doesn't work, and though reporting spammers doesn't appear to work very well either, it's more satisfying. I wish every mail server would update its rbl lists hourly. That might make a dent on them, and make reporting spammers much more satisfying. I get a fairly constant 100-175 spam a day, depending on the day of the week. Ca. 100-160 of those are from IPs that are already on rbls. Wednesday through Saturday, the counts ramp up from 100/160 to 115/175. I still get 2-10 Swen related mail per day. -- Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. (*)http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling Please don't Cc: me. - - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 11:02:11AM -0500, Michael Marsh wrote: On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:48:16 -0500, John Hannibal Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am I safe from getting spam on this list? Will my e-mail address ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) be sold or distributed? All mail to this list is archived on the web, so your email address *will* be harvested by spammers. Having posted, the genie is basically already out of the bottle. That's why I got a Gmail account -- the traffic and spam to it don't interfere with my real account. I change my list email every time I start to get spam. Usually it starts within 2 weeks to 2 months. Including nospam in your email name helps a lot. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
Including nospam in your email name helps a lot. how come ? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
William Ballard wrote: Including nospam in your email name helps a lot. And how do you subscribe to the list with nospam in the e-mail address?!? You'll never receive an e-mail to that address! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:03:01 + Clive Menzies [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The good news is that there are many ways of dealing with spam using Debian, even so far as blocking it at smtp time and so most of it never reaches your machine. Below are a range of packages that deal with spam: mailfilter - A program that filters your incoming e-mail to help remove spam That's what I use, it's great. More people should try it. sylpheed-claws-spamassassin - SpamAssassin plugin for Sylpheed Claws I wasn't aware of this one, thanks for mentioning it (I'm a Sylpheed user). I'll give it a try. regards, Robert -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian and spam
On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 06:14:45PM +, Joao Clemente wrote: William Ballard wrote: Including nospam in your email name helps a lot. And how do you subscribe to the list with nospam in the e-mail address?!? You'll never receive an e-mail to that address! It works just fine. I must be smarter than the average bear, because apparently everyone thinks its the wierdest thing in the world, and it fools some automated tools, and the smartest people think it's a fake, but it's a perfectly legal email address. Probably people will wise up. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
On 28 Jan 2004, Bojan Baros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in linux.debian.user: Why isn't there a limitation that will only allow the mails to be forwarded to the list if the originating email is subscribed to the list? (snip) I read the list on usenet. I find it is easier for me to follow the large volume of messages here in a news reader (I prefer Xnews, but I could use Thunderbird too). I can't remember if it was this list or the security list, but one of them required me to submit my email address to the list server before I could post to the list through usenet. Rejecting mail from unknown users seems like a perfectly reasonable solution to me. I do it on the small lists I host at work (under 300 users). If (wo)manpwer is the issue, I'd be happy to help with the admin process. List admin, please feel free to email me directly to discuss this. -Dan PS, reading on usenet is much kinder to the serving host too. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cutthatout.com Seattle, WA USA I can't spell and I don't care. Fight back against worms and blackhats - http://www.mynetwatchman.com SPAM bait: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
Paul Johnson wrote: Actually, the most daunting thing about this list is the sheer volume of mail involved. Do you even grasp the irony of this statement? If volume is a problem then you'd think reducing the volume by cutting out the cruft of non-list spam and bogus mailings of false virus reports would be a good thing. This is so their mailbox doesn't get clogged. This, too, is a non-issue since there are always digests. Which will explode a Hotmail box just as fast on a high-traffic day, it's just a massive timebomb that blindsides you, too. Paul, you intentinally being obtuse. Later in the same message you snipped the following: ...or people who don't want their mail clogged there's digests. If they want no mail there's vacation. If the list software does not have those options then it is broken and should be replaced. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
Dan Lawrence wrote: On 28 Jan 2004, Bojan Baros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in linux.debian.user: snip If (wo)manpwer is the issue, I'd be happy to help with the admin process. List admin, please feel free to email me directly to discuss this. -Dan I would also be happy to volunteer with the admin process. List admin feel free to contact me at the email address above. I'll keep checking it. Hugo. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 12:59:06PM -0600, Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Does this mean that the volunteer list maintainer who has limited time to maintain the list is a Debian Developer, Yes. I am under the impression that recently there is NO maintenance of this list, judging by the amount of crap that is appearing... That's rubbish, I'm afraid; the amount of crap you see is a tiny portion of the amount of crap that gets filtered before you ever see it. (I don't administer lists.debian.org, but I administer bugs.debian.org and know that that statement holds true for us; I also know that lists.debian.org has rather better filtering than the bug tracking system currently does.) -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
I have an idea! Why don't we figure out a way to bounce all the virus crap to the spammers. That would kill two bad birds with one big stone:-) -- John Foster Advance-Computing Systems We build amazing servers! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 10:13:18PM -0800, Steve Lamb wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: Long story short: [EMAIL PROTECTED] is not the only way this forum is read: Other mailing lists mirror this one, as well as several usenet newsgroup. Closing the list would severely limit debian-user's usefulness due to a suddenly and artificially restricted membership. As opposed to limted usefulness from a steadily increasing noise to signal ratio and dropping readership because of the same. Brilliant! Really, this wouldn't be a problem if Windows users weren't so clueless, even among this list's audience. It wouldn't be a problem if SMTP weren't so insecure. But guess what. Windows is here, SMTP is insecure and there are clueless newbs out there. Ignoring it won't make it go away nor will being snide, rude and pathetically close minded The list's junk filtering is actually jolly good, given that it is largely automated, operates with little human intervention and has a strong need to avoid false positives. There is always a little crop of false negatives when a new worm strikes, before the filtering learns / is tweaked. I don't rate it as much of a problem, especially given that the amount of mydoom garbage I'm receiving directly far exceeds that which the list is relaying. The distribution of my email address is mainly through this list. AIUI mydoom doesn't search the web for email addresses, but harvests them from files on an infected box. So the problem really is down to clueless Windows users who aren't using effective virus protection. (Note: don't let the issue become confused by the fact that there are instances of mydoom out there which are forging [EMAIL PROTECTED] in the From: headers.) There was a lot of gas generated about the swen worm when that hit. That harvested email addresses off the web. Again, clueless Windows users without effective virus protection - only a wider base of them, ie. not just ones subscribed to this list. In neither case would restricting posting to the list to subscribers only have solved the problem. Munging the email addresses of posters would - which again is an issue that has been flogged not only to death but to the recycling of the atoms of the decayed corpse into the tissue of other organisms. FWIW I think the policy of *not* munging is correct. My solution is - for the direct garbage, mail filtering of whatever form one finds most appropriate or effective; for the garbage relayed by the list, the 'd' key in mutt suffices for the week or so until the list's filtering adapts to the new situation. -- Pigeon Be kind to pigeons Get my GPG key here: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x21C61F7F pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
Pigeon said: There was a lot of gas generated about the swen worm when that hit. That harvested email addresses off the web. Again, clueless Windows users without effective virus protection - only a wider base of them, ie. not just ones subscribed to this list. My solution is - for the direct garbage, mail filtering of whatever form one finds most appropriate or effective; for the garbage relayed by the list, the 'd' key in mutt suffices for the week or so until the list's filtering adapts to the new situation. Idear, Can you just reject messages that, Non-english as defined via spamassassin. I believe this was implemented. Reject messages that are duplicates of messages sent to the same mailing list?, or are duplicate msgids? What problems does this cause? This should block most worms, and duplicate postings. I believe something similar to this is already done. Would be nice to have your address munged from this list, or the option. Within 15 minutes of posting to this list i start getting spam. I use a disposable reply-to address and it gets upwards of 50-70 spam/virus's per day from somewhere within a week of posting an item. I know the address is harvested from the list,becuase it is a unique address used nowhere else. Then I setup a new reply-to address and use it for a week or two, until it gets overwhelmed with virii and spam. Of course sa tags it, but it still annoys me. -- --Luke CS Sysadmin, Montana State University-Bozeman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 03:09:57PM -0700, Lucas Albers wrote:
Would be nice to have your address munged from this list, or the option.
You do have the option. Add to /etc/exim/exim.conf:
##
# REWRITE CONFIGURATION #
##
[EMAIL PROTECTED]${if match {$header_to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] frFs
...or other similar methods, depending on what email software you're using.
--
Pigeon
Be kind to pigeons
Get my GPG key here: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x21C61F7F
pgp0.pgp
Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
Pigeon wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]${if match {$header_to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] frFs
...or other similar methods, depending on what email software you're using.
Hmmm, never thought of that for people who insist on sending CCs to messages
on lists which explicitly state CCs are discouraged. :P
--
Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your
PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | main connection to the switchboard of souls.
---+-
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 12:49:55AM -0800, Steve Lamb wrote: Paul Johnson wrote: Actually, the most daunting thing about this list is the sheer volume of mail involved. Do you even grasp the irony of this statement? If volume is a problem then you'd think reducing the volume by cutting out the cruft of non-list spam and bogus mailings of false virus reports would be a good thing. No, I'm saying once you're able to deal with the sheer scale of this list, picking the wheat from the chaff is easy. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAGeTZUzgNqloQMwcRAuxfAJ9QqySeWQTM4u6HbBi2VEZUZ6FbyQCfVWb5 jpTJfz+zWYRXMExbtzIx+SE= =3Tp+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 01:35:41PM -0600, John Foster wrote: I have an idea! Why don't we figure out a way to bounce all the virus crap to the spammers. That would kill two bad birds with one big stone:-) Hehehe, feed the homeless to the hungry, I like that. (And before anybody gets mad that I'm not politically correct, I've briefly been one or the other and I find it funny.) - -- .''`. Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAGelsUzgNqloQMwcRAsrYAJ9u9wqWYS9zYA39uhCcz8CZjkM9EQCfUODV IWYKAkTKBnonWfti189LME8= =gEks -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
Pigeon said: On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 03:09:57PM -0700, Lucas Albers wrote: Would be nice to have your address munged from this list, or the option. You do have the option. Add to /etc/exim/exim.conf: All the spam comes from other machine. I reject 99% of it anyway, I just see it on my rejection webpage,sorted by sender,recipient. I have a an idea for stopping this. Post a message to teh list with an email address in the signature that is slightly different for each recipient. Then that will tell the listmaster which address was used to harvest the email address from. Example: I post a message to the list and have a signature that like such Joe Smith -Debian Lover [EMAIL PROTECTED] Then this address listed in the signature of the email is then subtly modified by a pre-delivery script for each recipient. So recipient 1 gets this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] recipient2 gets this address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] When mail is sent to either of this address, the address the address was harvested from is obvious. -- --Luke CS Sysadmin, Montana State University-Bozeman -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
Hello deb users. I got a little issue with receiving some of the mails through this list... The entire list have been subjected to the inflow of spam, viruses, auto-responders finding virus or spam, clueless users or someone who just wants to mess around with the list. Why isn't there a limitation that will only allow the mails to be forwarded to the list if the originating email is subscribed to the list? Yes, I know, email address can be forged, not a complete solution, yada yada yada, but it would stop at least some of the junk coming through. Another option could be moderating the off-list emails. Obviously, there might be some good reasons for this behavior that I am not aware off (besides it helps me build up my Bayes database and test my av), so please enlighten me. Bojan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
Hi, On Wed, 28 Jan 2004, Bojan Baros wrote: Hello deb users. I got a little issue with receiving some of the mails through this list... The entire list have been subjected to the inflow of spam, viruses, auto-responders finding virus or spam, clueless users or someone who just wants to mess around with the list. Why isn't there a limitation that will only allow the mails to be forwarded to the list if the originating email is subscribed to the list? Yes, I know, email address can be forged, not a complete solution, yada yada yada, but it would stop at least some of the junk coming through. Another option could be moderating the off-list emails. Obviously, there might be some good reasons for this behavior that I am not aware off (besides it helps me build up my Bayes database and test my av), so please enlighten me. Bojan I think there is a nice practical reason for this. The list operator doesn't have time to delete every spam user from this list. The operator is also someone who is maintaining the list in his free time. Greetz, Sebas -- English written by Dutch people is easily recognized by the improper use of 'In principle ...' The software box said 'Requires Windows 95 or better', so I installed Linux. Als Pacman in de jaren '80 de kinderen zo had be?nvloed zouden nu veel jongeren rondrennen in donkere zalen terwijl ze pillen eten en luisteren naar monotone electronische muziek. (Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, 1989) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
On Wed, 2004-01-28 at 10:31, Sebastiaan wrote: Hi, On Wed, 28 Jan 2004, Bojan Baros wrote: Hello deb users. I got a little issue with receiving some of the mails through this list... The entire list have been subjected to the inflow of spam, viruses, auto-responders finding virus or spam, clueless users or someone who just wants to mess around with the list. Why isn't there a limitation that will only allow the mails to be forwarded to the list if the originating email is subscribed to the list? Yes, I know, email address can be forged, not a complete solution, yada yada yada, but it would stop at least some of the junk coming through. Another option could be moderating the off-list emails. Obviously, there might be some good reasons for this behavior that I am not aware off (besides it helps me build up my Bayes database and test my av), so please enlighten me. Bojan I think there is a nice practical reason for this. The list operator doesn't have time to delete every spam user from this list. The operator is also someone who is maintaining the list in his free time. Greetz, Sebas I think bojan's suggestion was intended as a possible solution that would NOT eat up a list admin's free time. I dont think that its a bad idea either. However, the reason that is not done may be that it would prevent those who are not subscribed to the list (due to the high traffic) from posting legitimate questions. It is my opinion that subscribing and unsubscribing (or signing up for the digest version of the list) is not so difficult that it would serve to prevent people from asking questions if they want help. my $(1/50) -davidc -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
Sebastiaan wrote: Hi, On Wed, 28 Jan 2004, Bojan Baros wrote: Hello deb users. snip The entire list have been subjected to the inflow of spam, viruses, auto-responders finding virus or spam, clueless users or someone who just wants to mess around with the list. snip I think there is a nice practical reason for this. The list operator doesn't have time to delete every spam user from this list. The operator is also someone who is maintaining the list in his free time. Greetz, Sebas Does this mean that the volunteer list maintainer who has limited time to maintain the list is a Debian Developer, or can there be other volunteers to do this who DO have more time? I am under the impression that recently there is NO maintenance of this list, judging by the amount of crap that is appearing... Going through the torturous exercise to become a Debian Developer when you live outside the US or Western Europe is meaningless, I tried that. That seems to work OK when you live in an area of Debian Developer density 0, but otherwise produces no noticable results. Hugo. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote: Sebastiaan wrote: I think there is a nice practical reason for this. The list operator doesn't have time to delete every spam user from this list. The operator is also someone who is maintaining the list in his free time. Does this mean that the volunteer list maintainer who has limited time to maintain the list is a Debian Developer, or can there be other volunteers to do this who DO have more time? I am under the impression that recently there is NO maintenance of this list, judging by the amount of crap that is appearing... That isn't the reason. Perusing the archives will yield the real answer. Because a newbie Debian user *may* read the archvies and *may* decided to click on the link there to ask a question here it is felt that it is best to not prevent such messages from getting through as the insurmountable task of actually registering *may* drive said people away. Of course if the task of registering for a mailing list stumps a person I dare say running a Linux box, esp. one with Debian installed, might be a little out of their league. To me it is a non-issue since it is clear from this topic being brought up on a near weekly basis now the inconvenience to the hundreds of people who are currently subscribed certainly outweights the possibility someone out there might be turned off from Linux in general or Debian in particular because of the intricate workings of a mailing list subscription. Oh, there's also the fact that *some* people don't want to get the mailing list. They prefer to post and read the archives or request CCs. This is so their mailbox doesn't get clogged. This, too, is a non-issue since there are always digests. Ironically the above reasoning feeds into this one. Since the list is open there is an ever-growing number of bogus virus reports and spam that gets through. That, in turn, increases the volume of mail sent out which could, in turn, drive people to unsubscribe and just send in when needed and read the archives/request a CC. The really ironic part is that every time the topic comes up the administrators of the box this is hosted on lament on the load the machine is operating under. You'd think they would want to take low-cost sensible settings which would reduce the stress of the mail server, no? I'd imagine reducing the number of fake virus reports and spam that makes it through and this increases the outbound traffic bu report*(# of lists * subscribers on lists) would be a nice way to ease the stress. Low-cost and sane solutions being (none of which are implemented AFAIK): a: requiring registration before being able to mail out. b: batch sends instead of individual sends. c: per-list configuration in SA to limit the language to the language of the list (yes, that includes making restricting English from the non-English lists). A would cut out the bogus virus reports. It takes minimal processing power to check the list before letting the post through. Certainly far less than it would letting the posts through. As for people who *may* read the archives and *may* click the link and *may* be turned away, tough. The number is so small as to be insignificant compared to the fact that if things don't change there might not be a usable list for them to get answers from. For people who don't want their mail clogged there's digests. If they want no mail there's vacation. If the list software does not have those options then it is broken and should be replaced. B would lessen the load since it doesn't need to send an individual copy of the message to each address at any givem machine. 30 people from Earthlink on the list? Which makes more sense, sending 30 copies of the message (some of which can be rather large) or 30 RCPT TO lines and 1 copy? Bounces would be slightly higher but they can send out a singleton message once a week to see who's bouncing and take action then. If their mailing list software can't handle that then it's broken and should be replaced. C is just a configuration change on the SA checks already made on the lists. It would bump up the score on the marginal cases of spam which have made it through the list. Pretty much all of which has been in a language outside that of the list. IMHO those thee minute configuation changes would result in a drop in the noise and a net drop in the machine's load. None of them are drastic and every single one of them is sensible. All three have been rejected publicly on this list previously. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
Incoming from Hugo Vanwoerkom: Does this mean that the volunteer list maintainer who has limited time to maintain the list is a Debian Developer, or can there be other volunteers to do this who DO have more time? I am under the impression that recently there is NO maintenance of this list, Way to encourage the volunteer. I take it you're volunteering to replace him? It could be he has a life to live and real world job to keep on the side. Give him a break. Besides, I can't say that reading this list has changed much for me even with the latest crop of viruses, worms etc. I'd say the list is working just fine thank you very much. Of course, for the Windows users out there who haven't kept up their virus scanners and aren't sitting behind hardware firewalls, life might be a little more hectic. Which brings up another thing; all the talk about scanning the list for viruses, only allowing those subscribed to post, etc., yada yada. If they weren't using Windows to read mail, they wouldn't have a problem, would they? Why are so many considering reworking the list just to satisfy fools who insist on using deficient mail software? Apologies in advance for my lack of sympathy. :-P -- Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. (*) http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling - - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
On Wed, 2004-01-28 at 10:31, Sebastiaan wrote: Hi, On Wed, 28 Jan 2004, Bojan Baros wrote: Hello deb users. I got a little issue with receiving some of the mails through this list... The entire list have been subjected to the inflow of spam, viruses, auto-responders finding virus or spam, clueless users or someone who just wants to mess around with the list. Why isn't there a limitation that will only allow the mails to be forwarded to the list if the originating email is subscribed to the list? Yes, I know, email address can be forged, not a complete solution, yada yada yada, but it would stop at least some of the junk coming through. Another option could be moderating the off-list emails. Obviously, there might be some good reasons for this behavior that I am not aware off (besides it helps me build up my Bayes database and test my av), so please enlighten me. Bojan I think there is a nice practical reason for this. The list operator doesn't have time to delete every spam user from this list. The operator is also someone who is maintaining the list in his free time. Greetz, Sebas I think bojan's suggestion was intended as a possible solution that would NOT eat up a list admin's free time. I dont think that its a bad idea either. However, the reason that is not done may be that it would prevent those who are not subscribed to the list (due to the high traffic) from posting legitimate questions. It is my opinion that subscribing and unsubscribing (or signing up for the digest version of the list) is not so difficult that it would serve to prevent people from asking questions if they want help. my $(1/50) -davidc Thank you both for responding. Yes, David is right, there would not be any extra work for moderators if the unauthorized messages are simply bounced back. David did bring a good point as well, about opportunity to ask question without being exposed to the volume of the list, and using gmane or some other way of reading the posts, instead of receiving them in the email box. That about settles it for me, unless someone has something else to add... Bojan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
s. keeling wrote: Which brings up another thing; all the talk about scanning the list for viruses, only allowing those subscribed to post, etc., yada yada. If they weren't using Windows to read mail, they wouldn't have a problem, would they? Why are so many considering reworking the list just to satisfy fools who insist on using deficient mail software? Noone suggested scanning the list for viruses. But read my post as there is more to it than just an inconvenience. Lesser load on the server doing the work, a cleaner list overall, etc. I don't believe anyone who is asking for sensible configuration of the list is hindered by their mail software[*]. [*] And before you even think it up until a week ago I was using Thunderbird on Linux. Mutt before that. Sylpheed-Claws before that. Currently mail goes through SMTP time checks against viruses and spam and is filtered by Exim at delivery so I may access it via IMAP. So no, it is not deficient software that motivates it. It's the 40 freakin' false virus notices that should not be distributed in the first place. Yes, I can filter them just fine. Point is I should have to because it is ONE configuration option on the server side which benefits not only the reader base but their own server. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
Bojan Baros wrote: David did bring a good point as well, about opportunity to ask question without being exposed to the volume of the list, and using gmane or some other way of reading the posts, instead of receiving them in the email box. That about settles it for me, unless someone has something else to add... Subscribe, set vacation. They read like they want, the list is protected. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 10:02:05AM -0500, Bojan Baros wrote: Obviously, there might be some good reasons for this behavior that I am not aware off (besides it helps me build up my Bayes database and test my av), so please enlighten me. Please STFW next time. This topic is already a horse-shaped hole from too much beating years ago. Long story short: [EMAIL PROTECTED] is not the only way this forum is read: Other mailing lists mirror this one, as well as several usenet newsgroup. Closing the list would severely limit debian-user's usefulness due to a suddenly and artificially restricted membership. Really, this wouldn't be a problem if Windows users weren't so clueless, even among this list's audience. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAGKFvUzgNqloQMwcRAkV2AKDUJwq9j0TTaK7q1oAvTvlu+c70IQCgx0px Q8l+Wq4rYz+ZWvhRoGm3E0o= =SNCE -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Jan 28, 2004 at 05:14:58PM -0800, Steve Lamb wrote: That isn't the reason. Perusing the archives will yield the real answer. Because a newbie Debian user *may* read the archvies and *may* decided to click on the link there to ask a question here it is felt that it is best to not prevent such messages from getting through as the insurmountable task of actually registering *may* drive said people away. Of course if the task of registering for a mailing list stumps a person I dare say running a Linux box, esp. one with Debian installed, might be a little out of their league. Actually, the most daunting thing about this list is the sheer volume of mail involved. That's what drove me to start using procmail. Having too much time on my hands made me lazy and use dotfile, but when dotfile broke and I realized the only reason I even saw it as a maintained package still was that I had a stable source straggling around from days of yore... This is so their mailbox doesn't get clogged. This, too, is a non-issue since there are always digests. Which will explode a Hotmail box just as fast on a high-traffic day, it's just a massive timebomb that blindsides you, too. - -- .''`. Paul Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' : `. `'` proud Debian admin and user `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fix a system -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAGKUcUzgNqloQMwcRAu10AJ0W0dRlubRTzLYFhOudPISfUXC2uwCg4wy5 D+SexyTIrFZQA6XY3CQ66Dc= =iunI -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian list = spam and virus repeater/multiplexer
Paul Johnson wrote: Long story short: [EMAIL PROTECTED] is not the only way this forum is read: Other mailing lists mirror this one, as well as several usenet newsgroup. Closing the list would severely limit debian-user's usefulness due to a suddenly and artificially restricted membership. As opposed to limted usefulness from a steadily increasing noise to signal ratio and dropping readership because of the same. Brilliant! Really, this wouldn't be a problem if Windows users weren't so clueless, even among this list's audience. It wouldn't be a problem if SMTP weren't so insecure. But guess what. Windows is here, SMTP is insecure and there are clueless newbs out there. Ignoring it won't make it go away nor will being snide, rude and pathetically close minded -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your PGP Key: 8B6E99C5 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Debian archive spam
On Thu, Apr 04, 2002 at 07:43:44PM -0800, Jaye Inabnit ke6sls wrote: I Just received this message moments ago. Is this actually coming into my mailbox via bounce-debian-user? It's a temporary glitch in the spam filtering on the lists. I believe (from overheard conversations on IRC) that either it's just been fixed or it'll be fixed very shortly. -- Colin Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Debian archive spam
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Greetings: I Just received this message moments ago. Is this actually coming into my mailbox via bounce-debian-user? If so, why did it pick me? *SPAM* DAILY REQS!!! 04/05/02 The header source: Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from xlate1.mailsvcs.arrl.net ([216.37.46.9]) by lakemtai02.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id [EMAIL PROTECTED] for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 22:06:31 -0500 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [65.125.64.134]) by xlate1.mailsvcs.arrl.net (8.11.6/8.11.0) with SMTP id g3536U528653 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 22:06:30 -0500 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 22:06:30 -0500 Received: (qmail 9096 invoked by uid 38); 5 Apr 2002 03:05:57 - X-Envelope-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: (qmail 9014 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2002 03:05:52 - Received: from relais.videotron.ca (HELO VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca) (@24.201.245.36) by murphy.debian.org with SMTP; 5 Apr 2002 03:05:52 - Received: from ron ([24.202.85.31]) by VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 MR003 Jul 24 2001 16:23:26) with SMTP id GU2R6N00.F5G; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 22:03:59 -0500 From: Ron Mamers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LAURAND COMPONENTS [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: *SPAM* DAILY REQS!!! 04/05/02 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 22:02:07 -0500 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Status: Yes, hits=8.4 required=4.7 tests=SUBJ_ALL_CAPS,PLING_PLING,PLING,EXCUSE_3,REMOVE_SUBJ,EXCUSE_7,REMOVE_IN_QUOTES,LINE_OF_YELLING,FREQ_SPAM_PHRASE,FROM_AND_TO_SAME version=2.01 X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.01 (devel $Id: SpamAssassin.pm,v 1.61 2002/01/25 04:41:02 jmason Exp $) X-Spam-Prev-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Spam-Report: 8.43 hits, 4.7 required; * 0.7 -- Subject is all capitals * 1.2 -- Subject has lots of exclamation marks * 0.5 -- Subject has an exclamation mark * 1.0 -- BODY: Claims you can be removed from the list * 1.0 -- BODY: List removal information * 0.0 -- BODY: Claims you can be removed from the list * 0.0 -- BODY: List removal information * 0.7 -- BODY: A WHOLE LINE OF YELLING DETECTED * 1.6 -- Contains phrases frequently found in spam [score: 14, hits: for any, from our, mail] [address, mailing list, our mailing, remove the,] [removed from, the subject, this] [mail] * 1.8 -- From and To the same address Resent-Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: debian-user@lists.debian.org archive/latest/205283 X-Loop: debian-user@lists.debian.org List-Post: mailto:debian-user@lists.debian.org List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Precedence: list Resent-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Status: R X-Status: N - -- Jaye Inabnit\ARS ke6sls\/A GNU-Debian linux user\/ http://www.qsl.net/ke6sls If it's stupid, but works, it ain't stupid. I SHOUT JUST FOR FUN. Free software, in a free world, for a free spirit. Please Support freedom! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8rR15ZHBxKsta6kMRApG0AJ0WMLuo+vQqQ4nnDjP3Yb9N1rPA4ACePWaw Y03KAsIqH8uWM2qyq+Kr/iA= =/oc2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian archive spam
No, I think the return-path stuff is so that if the message bounces at your end the bounce doesn't go to the list but to some address where it dies a quiet death. If you have a look at the 'received' chain, it comes from a machine called 'ron' (presumably because ron uses it) and comes through videotron, which I gather owns Laurand Components (or at least provides their IT services). Does this not fall under the definition of advertising on the list, which I believe incurrs a charge (nominally US$1000, I think). Who sends out the invoice? Tom On 0, Jaye Inabnit ke6sls [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Greetings: I Just received this message moments ago. Is this actually coming into my mailbox via bounce-debian-user? If so, why did it pick me? *SPAM* DAILY REQS!!! 04/05/02 The header source: Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: from xlate1.mailsvcs.arrl.net ([216.37.46.9]) by lakemtai02.cox.net (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ESMTP id [EMAIL PROTECTED] for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 22:06:31 -0500 Received: from murphy.debian.org (murphy.debian.org [65.125.64.134]) by xlate1.mailsvcs.arrl.net (8.11.6/8.11.0) with SMTP id g3536U528653 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 22:06:30 -0500 Resent-Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 22:06:30 -0500 Received: (qmail 9096 invoked by uid 38); 5 Apr 2002 03:05:57 - X-Envelope-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: (qmail 9014 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2002 03:05:52 - Received: from relais.videotron.ca (HELO VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca) (@24.201.245.36) by murphy.debian.org with SMTP; 5 Apr 2002 03:05:52 - Received: from ron ([24.202.85.31]) by VL-MS-MR003.sc1.videotron.ca (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 MR003 Jul 24 2001 16:23:26) with SMTP id GU2R6N00.F5G; Thu, 4 Apr 2002 22:03:59 -0500 From: Ron Mamers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: LAURAND COMPONENTS [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: *SPAM* DAILY REQS!!! 04/05/02 Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 22:02:07 -0500 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal X-Spam-Status: Yes, hits=8.4 required=4.7 tests=SUBJ_ALL_CAPS,PLING_PLING,PLING,EXCUSE_3,REMOVE_SUBJ,EXCUSE_7,REMOVE_IN_QUOTES,LINE_OF_YELLING,FREQ_SPAM_PHRASE,FROM_AND_TO_SAME version=2.01 X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.01 (devel $Id: SpamAssassin.pm,v 1.61 2002/01/25 04:41:02 jmason Exp $) X-Spam-Prev-Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Spam-Report: 8.43 hits, 4.7 required; * 0.7 -- Subject is all capitals * 1.2 -- Subject has lots of exclamation marks * 0.5 -- Subject has an exclamation mark * 1.0 -- BODY: Claims you can be removed from the list * 1.0 -- BODY: List removal information * 0.0 -- BODY: Claims you can be removed from the list * 0.0 -- BODY: List removal information * 0.7 -- BODY: A WHOLE LINE OF YELLING DETECTED * 1.6 -- Contains phrases frequently found in spam [score: 14, hits: for any, from our, mail] [address, mailing list, our mailing, remove the,] [removed from, the subject, this] [mail] * 1.8 -- From and To the same address Resent-Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resent-From: debian-user@lists.debian.org X-Mailing-List: debian-user@lists.debian.org archive/latest/205283 X-Loop: debian-user@lists.debian.org List-Post: mailto:debian-user@lists.debian.org List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Precedence: list Resent-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Status: R X-Status: N - -- Jaye Inabnit\ARS ke6sls\/A GNU-Debian linux user\/ http://www.qsl.net/ke6sls If it's stupid, but works, it ain't stupid. I SHOUT JUST FOR FUN. Free software, in a free world, for a free spirit. Please Support freedom! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8rR15ZHBxKsta6kMRApG0AJ0WMLuo+vQqQ4nnDjP3Yb9N1rPA4ACePWaw Y03KAsIqH8uWM2qyq+Kr/iA= =/oc2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Tom Cook Information Technology Services, The University of Adelaide That you're not paranoid does not mean they're not out to get you. - Robert Waldner Get my GPG public key: https://pinky.its.adelaide.edu.au/tom.cook-at-adelaide.edu.au pgpB347FUtcEW.pgp Description: PGP signature
