Re: Network-manager issue after installation, was: Re: your mail
Franco Martelli wrote: > On 30/07/24 at 17:29, Tawsif wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 01:08:39PM +0600, Tawsif wrote: > > I have a very small storage size for my laptop (64gb). So, I installed > > debian minimal in it. > > If you can, reinstalls Debian as usual, my KDE's installation takes about > 10GB: There is no need to reinstall Debian to add KDE, or any other desktop environment, or to switch from one to another. sudo apt install kde-standard -dsr-
Network-manager issue after installation, was: Re: your mail
On 30/07/24 at 17:29, Tawsif wrote: On Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 01:08:39PM +0600, Tawsif wrote: I have a very small storage size for my laptop (64gb). So, I installed debian minimal in it. If you can, reinstalls Debian as usual, my KDE's installation takes about 10GB: ~$ LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 df / Filesystem Type Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on /dev/mapper/ld0-lv2 ext4 28G 9.6G 17G 37% / Therefore if you don't have space need for the /home/ directory it should be fine for you. Cheers -- Franco Martelli
Re: network question
Am Wed, 19 Jun 2024 10:14:32 +0800 schrieb Jeff Peng : > when my server is a vps who has floating IP (that means, the server's > iP is an internal IP, the public ip is bond on provider's > router/firewall devices), then my ssh client connecting to the server > will never disconnect even if I changed my local gateway (for example > switching VPN). If you enable a VPN tunnel traffic may go through, but it is also possible to bind it to a specific interface tat doesn't care about the tunnel. Use a network sniffer to investigate that. > if the vps is a normal IPv4 box then switching localnet will always > disconnect. Please specify exactly what are you doing here.
network question
may I ask a network question? when my server is a vps who has floating IP (that means, the server's iP is an internal IP, the public ip is bond on provider's router/firewall devices), then my ssh client connecting to the server will never disconnect even if I changed my local gateway (for example switching VPN). if the vps is a normal IPv4 box then switching localnet will always disconnect. what's the reason? thanks.
Re: Predictable network device names [was: Please help me identify package so I can report an important bug
On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 06:59:49AM +0200, Kamil Jońca wrote: > to...@tuxteam.de writes: [...] > > and of course, if you are using a desktop environment and NetworkManager > > or systemd-networkd, it's probably better to go with the flow and let > > them do. > > About year ago none of them was able to handle my config. > (Some interfaces used by vms , and proper snat for them.) I've supported those only for pretty bog standard setups. Mainly end users who have to cope with longer stretches without local friendly hackers. I don't believe they are useful for special situations or knowledgeable users. Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Predictable network device names [was: Please help me identify package so I can report an important bug
to...@tuxteam.de writes: > On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 06:30:27AM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > [following up on myself, bad style, I know] > >> For my laptop, I very much prefer to say "sudo ifup eth0" than to >> say "sudo ifup en0ps&&@*#!☠" thankyouverymuch :) > > and of course, if you are using a desktop environment and NetworkManager > or systemd-networkd, it's probably better to go with the flow and let > them do. About year ago none of them was able to handle my config. (Some interfaces used by vms , and proper snat for them.) KJ -- http://wolnelektury.pl/wesprzyj/teraz/
Predictable network device names [was: Please help me identify package so I can report an important bug
On Thu, Jun 13, 2024 at 06:30:27AM +0200, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: [following up on myself, bad style, I know] > For my laptop, I very much prefer to say "sudo ifup eth0" than to > say "sudo ifup en0ps&&@*#!☠" thankyouverymuch :) and of course, if you are using a desktop environment and NetworkManager or systemd-networkd, it's probably better to go with the flow and let them do. Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Kvm Bridge Network Problem
On Tue, May 07, 2024 at 02:17:05AM +0100, Gareth Evans wrote: > On Tue 07/05/2024 at 01:51, Gareth Evans wrote: > > I did miss a step. > > > Start VM, check DHCP address assigned > > should be > > > Edit the VM NIC settings and choose your routed network connection from the > > "Network Source" dropdown. Apply changes. > > > Start VM, check DHCP address assigned > > I actually deleted other vibrX devices and networks before starting, but I > don't think that matters. > > G For the sake of the archive: Place _all_ steps in one email. Preferable in reply to the original posting. Groeten Geert Stappers -- Silence is hard to parse
Re: Kvm Bridge Network Problem
On Tue 07/05/2024 at 01:51, Gareth Evans wrote: I did miss a step. > Start VM, check DHCP address assigned should be > Edit the VM NIC settings and choose your routed network connection from the > "Network Source" dropdown. Apply changes. > Start VM, check DHCP address assigned I actually deleted other vibrX devices and networks before starting, but I don't think that matters. G
Re: Kvm Bridge Network Problem
On host: $ ip a|grep wl 3: wlp1s0: mtu 1500 qdisc noqueue state UP group default qlen 1000 inet 192.168.1.100/24 ... Using: virt-manager > Edit > Connection Details > Virtual Networks > Add network Mode: Routed Network: 192.168.200.0/24 Accept default DHCP range Forward to: physical device Device: wlp1s0 [this is my physical wifi card] Then: $ sudo sysctl -w net.ipv4.ip_forward=1 Then check: $ ip link 6: virbr0: mtu 1500 qdisc noqueue state UP mode DEFAULT group default qlen 1000 link/ether 52:54:00:54:ed:48 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff 7: vnet0: mtu 1500 qdisc noqueue master virbr0 state UNKNOWN mode DEFAULT group default qlen 1000 link/ether fe:54:00:9b:a7:8e brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff Start VM, check DHCP address assigned On VM guest: $ ip a|grep enp 2: enp1s0: mtu 1500 qdisc fq_codel state UP group default qlen 1000 inet 192.168.200.151/24 ... At this point (with firewalls temporarily off) I was able to ssh to and from host and VM guest using their respective IP addresses. After adding a static route on my wireless router: 192.168.200.0/24 via 192.168.1.100 (to paraphrase the web form) I installed apache2 on the VM guest and was able to access http://192.168.200.151 from my phone over wifi, and websites on the host from the VM guest. Firewalld actived on host with ssh and https services allowed - ssh and web browsing worked as before. No nf/iptables jiggery-pokery, but static route on router required. Perhaps not the most efficient solution, but I try to avoid too many firewall rules because they make my head spin :) Don't think I've omitted any steps. Does that help? Best wishes, Gareth
Re: Kvm Bridge Network Problem
On Sun 05/05/2024 at 07:53, Gareth Evans wrote: > That might suggest NAT is still operative for the VM. Ah, I hadn't seen Geert's reply, which I think is closer to the mark :) This gives a routing-based approach: https://www.linux-kvm.org/page/Networking This creates an isolated network between host and guest, which without routing presumably is additional to the default network, and the (Ubuntu-based) netplan stuff needs substituting with /e/n/i adjustments: https://www.nodinrogers.com/post/2022-01-06-enabling-kvm-host-to-vm-communcation/ All of which I have yet to test but have been meaning to look into this again. HTH
Re: Kvm Bridge Network Problem
On Sat 04/05/2024 at 21:26, Stephen P. Molnar wrote: > ... > I have managed to follow the > instructions in: > > https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/how-to-add-network-bridge-with-nmcli-networkmanager-on-linux/ > > ... > I was able to use the LAN > printer and the 40" TV , but could not access the Host. Hi Stephen, That might suggest NAT is still operative for the VM. Did you do the "optional" part of the tutorial in your link too, re KVM network config? What is the output of # nmcli con show # nmcli device # virsh net-list --all # virsh net-dumpxml yourNetworkName I don't have a network cable to hand to test this at the moment (wifi NIC bridging is complex if possible with KVM [1] and apples and oranges and all that) but will do later if your problem is not solved. I think the presence of enp2s0 in /e/n/i (which your attachment seems to be) prevents NM from managing it, but if I'm wrong about that, could it be getting an address (static or otherwise) from NM? Gareth [1] https://hacktivate.it/posts/kvm-bridge-wireless/
Re: Kvm Bridge Network Problem, VM accessing the host
On Sat, May 04, 2024 at 04:26:07PM -0400, Stephen P. Molnar wrote: > I am running Bookworm on my main platform. After quite a bit of googling and > many errors and much head scratching I have managed to follow the > instructions in: > > https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/how-to-add-network-bridge-with-nmcli-networkmanager-on-linux/ > . > > I have currently implicated this on a Windows 10 client. However, there > still remains a problem. After the first restart of the Windows client the > internet was accessible. However, a problem arose after I successfully > installed br0 (copy attached). I was able to use the LAN printer and the 40" > TV , but could not access the Host. Ah, the VM guest can not access the host. (I changed 'Subject: Re: Kvm Bridge Network Problem' into 'Subject: Re: Kvm Bridge Network Problem, VM accessing the host') > I'm sure that I have missed something, but I don't know what. Network switches only forward packets. > Guidance to a solution to the problem would be appreciated. I have been where O.P. is, the challenge^Wproblem is real. > # This file describes the network interfaces available on your system > # and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5). > > source /etc/network/interfaces.d/* > > # The loopback network interface > auto lo > iface lo inet loopback > > # Specify that the physical interface that should be connected to the bridge > # should be configured manually, to avoid conflicts with NetworkManager > iface enp2s0 inet manual > > #Primary network interface with bridge > auto br0 > iface br0 inet static > address 162.237.98.238 > broadcast 162.237.98.255 > netmask 255.255.255.0 > gateway 162.237.98.1 > bridge_ports enp2s0 > bridge_stp off > bridge_waitport 0 > bridge fd 0 That brigde configuration looks good, even might be good. The thing is that host and VM are at the same interface of the network switch. And network switches only forward packets. It is a "physical law" in computer networking. Hopefully brings this email thread the jargon name of the "problem". If direct connection between host and the VM guest is important, then add such connection and take the costs it brings. Groeten Geert Stappers -- Silence is hard to parse
Kvm Bridge Network Problem
I am running Bookworm on my main platform. After quite a bit of googling and many errors and much head scratching I have managed to follow the instructions in: https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/how-to-add-network-bridge-with-nmcli-networkmanager-on-linux/ . I have currently implicated this on a Windows 10 client. However, there still remains a problem. After the first restart of the Windows client the internet was accessible. However, a problem arose after I successfully installed br0 (copy attached). I was able to use the LAN printer and the 40" TV , but could not access the Host. I'm sure that I have missed something, but I don't know what. Guidance to a solution to the problem would be appreciated. Thanks in advance, -- Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D. https://insilicochemistry.net (614)312-7528 (c) Skype: smolnar1 # This file describes the network interfaces available on your system # and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5). source /etc/network/interfaces.d/* # The loopback network interface auto lo iface lo inet loopback # Specify that the physical interface that should be connected to the bridge # should be configured manually, to avoid conflicts with NetworkManager iface enp2s0 inet manual #Primary network interface with bridge auto br0 iface br0 inet static address 162.237.98.238 broadcast 162.237.98.255 netmask 255.255.255.0 gateway 162.237.98.1 bridge_ports enp2s0 bridge_stp off bridge_waitport 0 bridge fd 0
Re: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared
> On 20 Apr 2024, at 16:49, David Christensen wrote: > > On 4/14/24 05:29, David Christensen wrote: >> debian-user: >> I have a Dell Latitude E6520: >> 2024-04-14 04:28:39 dpchrist@laalaa ~ >> $ cat /etc/debian_version ; uname -a >> 11.9 >> Linux laalaa 5.10.0-28-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.209-2 (2024-01-31) x86_64 >> GNU/Linux >> 2024-04-14 04:34:40 dpchrist@laalaa ~ >> $ dpkg-query -l xfce4 network-manager network-manager-gnome >> Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold >> | >> Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend >> |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) >> ||/ Name Version Architecture Description >> +++-=====-====--===== >> ii network-manager 1.30.6-1+deb11u1 amd64network management >> framework (daemon and userspace tools) >> ii network-manager-gnome 1.20.0-3 amd64network management >> framework (GNOME frontend) >> ii xfce4 4.16 all Meta-package for the >> Xfce Lightweight Desktop Environment >> I have used the Xfce panel Network Manager applet for many years. Tonight, I >> noticed that it has disappeared (!). > > > I compared the problem machine against another with a working Xfce panel > Network Manager applet, and discovered that the Status Tray Plugin was > missing. I may have deleted Status Tray Plugin while cleaning, but did not > notice the change immediately (?). > > > So, I added Status Tray Plugin and now Network Manager has returned Glad you solved it and thanks for explaining how. I hadn't twigged that "status tray" was a separate thing to "notification plugin" in XFCE (hence my earlier nomenclature) though on inspection, there it is indeed!
Re: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared
On 4/14/24 05:29, David Christensen wrote: debian-user: I have a Dell Latitude E6520: 2024-04-14 04:28:39 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ cat /etc/debian_version ; uname -a 11.9 Linux laalaa 5.10.0-28-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.209-2 (2024-01-31) x86_64 GNU/Linux 2024-04-14 04:34:40 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ dpkg-query -l xfce4 network-manager network-manager-gnome Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold | Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) ||/ Name Version Architecture Description +++-=---= ii network-manager 1.30.6-1+deb11u1 amd64 network management framework (daemon and userspace tools) ii network-manager-gnome 1.20.0-3 amd64 network management framework (GNOME frontend) ii xfce4 4.16 all Meta-package for the Xfce Lightweight Desktop Environment I have used the Xfce panel Network Manager applet for many years. Tonight, I noticed that it has disappeared (!). I compared the problem machine against another with a working Xfce panel Network Manager applet, and discovered that the Status Tray Plugin was missing. I may have deleted Status Tray Plugin while cleaning, but did not notice the change immediately (?). So, I added Status Tray Plugin and now Network Manager has returned. David
Re: Fwd: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared
On 4/19/24 00:16, Florent Rougon wrote: Another thing: did you look into ~/.xsession-errors? (Sorry if this was already mentioned and I missed it.) Please see attached copy of ~/.xsession-errors, taken immediately after system restart and login. "nm-applet" does not appear in .xsession-errors, but there are plenty of other warnings and error messages. Perhaps the failure of nm-applet is a symptom of a more fundamental failure (?). More involved: if you can't find any trace of the applet doing something, maybe rebuilding the package after adding a few fprintf() calls would help. I think it is time for a bug report. David .xsession-errors-20240419-121605.gz Description: application/gzip
Re: Fwd: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared
Hi, Le 18/04/2024, David Christensen a écrit: > 2024-04-18 02:27:18 root@laalaa ~ > # df `which nm-applet` > Filesystem 1M-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on > /dev/mapper/sdb3_crypt12084M 8927M 2522M 78% / Not sure this command is super-useful: % df $(which awk) Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/md127 97399092 28350256 64055044 31% / % which awk /bin/awk % readlink -f /bin/awk /usr/bin/gawk Another thing: did you look into ~/.xsession-errors? (Sorry if this was already mentioned and I missed it.) More involved: if you can't find any trace of the applet doing something, maybe rebuilding the package after adding a few fprintf() calls would help. Regards -- Florent
Re: Fwd: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared
On 4/18/24 09:46, Gareth Evans wrote: On Thu 18/04/2024 at 11:05, David Christensen wrote: Move aside the ~/.config/xfce4 directory: ... Restart -- screen with wallpaper alone. ... Hi David, Starting from Mate DE only and some old (bookworm) XFCE config files, if I: $ sudo apt install task-xfce-desktop then log out and into XFCE, I get an XFCE desktop with wallpaper, desktop icons, panel, main menu, launchers, window buttons, notification area. Then I: $ mv ~/.config/xfce4 ~/.config/xfce4.old then logout and into XFCE again, I get wallpaper, desktop icons, panel, main menu, window buttons, notification area, but only non-functional launcher placeholder icons. $ diff ~/.config/xfce4 ~/.config/xfce4.old Common subdirectories: /home/user/.config/xfce4/desktop and /home/user/.config/xfce4.old/desktop Only in /home/user/.config/xfce4.old: panel } Only in /home/user/.config/xfce4.old: src } <-- these are subdirectories Only in /home/user/.config/xfce4.old: terminal} Common subdirectories: /home/user/.config/xfce4/xfconf and /home/user/.config/xfce4.old/xfconf Common subdirectories: /home/user/.config/xfce4/xfwm4 and /home/user/.config/xfce4.old/xfwm4 $ (though there probably wasn't much there to start with) I'm not sure what would cause this difference in behaviour (though wonder if this might suggest more amiss with your XFCE installation) and I will watch this thread with interest. Also I just "rediscovered" that reinstalling task-xfce-desktop doesn't reinstall those packages which it brings in in the first place, though I'm sure you knew that :) Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Thanks for the suggestions. We have more information now. :-) David
Re: Fwd: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared
On 4/18/24 07:28, Max Nikulin wrote: On 18/04/2024 17:05, David Christensen wrote: $ mv .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/ .config/xfce4 Restart -- back to Xfce panel with no Network Manager. Try to create a new system user and log in. Is nm-applet present? Logging in using another previously working account produces the same result -- Xfce Panel displays Notification Plugin (bell icon), but no Network Manager icon. Creating a new account and logging in produces the same result. David
Re: Fwd: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared
On 4/18/24 05:34, e...@gmx.us wrote: On 4/18/24 05:27, David Christensen wrote: On 4/17/24 12:37, Richmond wrote: What are the permissions on the nm-applet binary? maybe it doesn't have permission to execute, or the process which starts it doesn't have permission. 2024-04-18 02:24:20 root@laalaa ~ # ls -l `which nm-applet` -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 250784 Feb 27 2021 /usr/bin/nm-applet I do not know what binary starts nm-applet, but here is a WAG: 2024-04-18 02:27:13 root@laalaa ~ # ll -l `which xfce4-panel` -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 363328 2021-02-27 08:29:44 /usr/bin/xfce4-panel Can PPID tell you? Yes. xfce4-session is the parent of nm-applet: 2024-04-18 10:27:32 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ ps -Ao "%p %P %a" | grep nm-applet 15301379 nm-applet 39373865 grep nm-applet 2024-04-18 10:27:44 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ ps -Ao "%p %P %a" | grep 1379 13791344 xfce4-session 14211379 /usr/bin/ssh-agent x-session-manager 14581379 xfwm4 --display :0.0 --sm-client-id 2d1bdc0a5-06f2-4835-944e-7e402203bd9f 14711379 xfsettingsd --display :0.0 --sm-client-id 29896f657-477c-498a-8156-db9d51f74bcf 14971379 xfce4-panel --display :0.0 --sm-client-id 23fd394e3-a4ee-485b-b43c-38bf845d6699 15011379 xfdesktop --display :0.0 --sm-client-id 2c913de99-acac-4d70-b6e9-8eda44b6f6da 15061379 xfce4-power-manager --restart --sm-client-id 24cebdb39-bdc2-496f-aab0-7b11397b48d3 15131379 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/xfce4/notifyd/xfce4-notifyd 15151379 light-locker 15161379 /usr/bin/python3 /usr/share/system-config-printer/applet.py 15171379 /usr/lib/policykit-1-gnome/polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1 15241379 xiccd 15301379 nm-applet 39403865 grep 1379 2024-04-18 10:29:20 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ ls -l `which xfce4-session` -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 260496 Dec 23 2020 /usr/bin/xfce4-session David
Re: Fwd: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared
On Thu 18/04/2024 at 11:05, David Christensen wrote: > Move aside the ~/.config/xfce4 directory: > ... > Restart -- screen with wallpaper alone. > ... Hi David, Starting from Mate DE only and some old (bookworm) XFCE config files, if I: $ sudo apt install task-xfce-desktop then log out and into XFCE, I get an XFCE desktop with wallpaper, desktop icons, panel, main menu, launchers, window buttons, notification area. Then I: $ mv ~/.config/xfce4 ~/.config/xfce4.old then logout and into XFCE again, I get wallpaper, desktop icons, panel, main menu, window buttons, notification area, but only non-functional launcher placeholder icons. $ diff ~/.config/xfce4 ~/.config/xfce4.old Common subdirectories: /home/user/.config/xfce4/desktop and /home/user/.config/xfce4.old/desktop Only in /home/user/.config/xfce4.old: panel } Only in /home/user/.config/xfce4.old: src } <-- these are subdirectories Only in /home/user/.config/xfce4.old: terminal} Common subdirectories: /home/user/.config/xfce4/xfconf and /home/user/.config/xfce4.old/xfconf Common subdirectories: /home/user/.config/xfce4/xfwm4 and /home/user/.config/xfce4.old/xfwm4 $ (though there probably wasn't much there to start with) I'm not sure what would cause this difference in behaviour (though wonder if this might suggest more amiss with your XFCE installation) and I will watch this thread with interest. Also I just "rediscovered" that reinstalling task-xfce-desktop doesn't reinstall those packages which it brings in in the first place, though I'm sure you knew that :) Sorry I couldn't be of more help. Best wishes, Gareth
Re: Fwd: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared
On 18/04/2024 17:05, David Christensen wrote: $ mv .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/ .config/xfce4 Restart -- back to Xfce panel with no Network Manager. Try to create a new system user and log in. Is nm-applet present?
Re: Fwd: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared
On 4/18/24 05:27, David Christensen wrote: On 4/17/24 12:37, Richmond wrote: David Christensen writes: What are the permissions on the nm-applet binary? maybe it doesn't have permission to execute, or the process which starts it doesn't have permission. 2024-04-18 02:24:20 root@laalaa ~ # ls -l `which nm-applet` -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 250784 Feb 27 2021 /usr/bin/nm-applet I do not know what binary starts nm-applet, but here is a WAG: 2024-04-18 02:27:13 root@laalaa ~ # ll -l `which xfce4-panel` -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 363328 2021-02-27 08:29:44 /usr/bin/xfce4-panel Can PPID tell you? -- "I have 140,737,488,355,328* mb RAM." Case matters. * Depending on how you interpret things
Re: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared
On 4/17/24 12:07, Charles Curley wrote: On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 11:41:24 -0700 David Christensen wrote: My WAG is that nm-applet is failing to start, but I have been unable to find if and where any error message is reported. My instance of nm-applet does run, and I see this as part of the boot process: root@hawk:~# journalctl -b | grep nm-app Apr 15 11:27:42 hawk NetworkManager[1354]: [1713202062.7737] agent-manager: agent[108f011a1115d508,:1.131/org.freedesktop.nm-applet/1000]: agent registered root@hawk:~# I suspect that if nm-applet doesn't start, you won't see any output from that command. 2024-04-18 03:07:20 root@laalaa ~ # journalctl -b | grep nm-app Apr 18 03:01:39 laalaa NetworkManager[833]: [1713434499.3660] agent-manager: agent[2a08cda7fa35849b,:1.48/org.freedesktop.nm-applet/13250]: agent registered David
Re: Fwd: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared
On 4/17/24 19:41, Gareth Evans wrote: On Wed 17/04/2024 at 19:41, David Christensen wrote: On 4/17/24 03:47, Gareth Evans wrote: On Wed 17/04/2024 at 09:18, David Christensen wrote: On 4/16/24 08:56, Gareth Evans wrote: On 16 Apr 2024, at 00:18, David Christensen wrote: On 4/15/24 09:21, Gareth Evans wrote: On Sun 14/04/2024 at 13:29, David Christensen wrote: ... I have used the Xfce panel Network Manager applet for many years. Tonight, I noticed that it has disappeared (!). ... There is apparently a long history of nm-applet/XFCE panel-related issues (and not many great answers), as evidenced by such as https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=161998 https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=6105 https://superuser.com/questions/900490/networkmanager-icon-on-notification-area-is-not-present I tried: 1. Remove Notification applet, restart, add Notification applet, no Network Manager, restart -- no Network Manager. 2. Look at /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf 2024-04-18 02:40:49 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ cat /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf [main] plugins=ifupdown,keyfile [ifupdown] managed=false Change it to: 2024-04-18 02:43:35 root@laalaa ~ # cat /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf [main] plugins=ifupdown,keyfile [ifupdown] managed=true Restart -- no Network Manager. Verify /etc//NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf: 2024-04-18 02:45:05 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ cat /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf [main] plugins=ifupdown,keyfile [ifupdown] managed=true If you get ps output like this directly after a reboot: $ ps aux | grep nm-applet dpchrist1518 0.1 0.2 426500 35380 ?Sl 16:06 0:00 nm-applet 2024-04-18 02:45:10 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ ps aux | grep nm-applet dpchrist1526 0.1 0.2 426484 35256 ?Sl 02:44 0:00 nm-applet dpchrist1869 0.0 0.0 3240 712 pts/0S+ 02:47 0:00 grep nm-applet then I don't think the issue is with the starting/running of nm-applet itself, but rather some issue with the notification plugin, which I'm not sure how to begin troubleshooting. I reluctantly abandoned XFCE partly due to panel instability some time ago. The advice in the final link to rm -rf ~/.config/xfce* might be a bit extreme, but I might try renaming it to force a rebuild on next login, and possibly reinstall task-xfce-desktop (or selected packages) Move aside the ~/.config/xfce4 directory: 2024-04-18 02:50:20 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ ls -ld .config/xfce4/ drwxr-xr-x 8 dpchrist dpchrist 4096 Apr 18 00:45 .config/xfce4/ 2024-04-18 02:50:23 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ mv .config/xfce4/ .config/xfce4-20240418-180045 Restart -- screen with wallpaper alone. Right-click on desktop -> Applications -> Settings -> Panel brings up the Panel Preferences application. The Items tab shows my previous settings. Fumbling around, I am unable to get that panel to display (?). If I create a new panel, I am unable to get it to display (?). Open a Terminal and look if Xfce created a new configuration directory: 2024-04-18 02:57:31 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ ls -ld .config/xfce4* drwxr-xr-x 7 dpchrist dpchrist 4096 Apr 18 02:57 .config/xfce4 drwxr-xr-x 8 dpchrist dpchrist 4096 Apr 18 00:45 .config/xfce4-20240418-180045 Yes, it did. Compare the old directory to the new directory: 2024-04-18 02:58:11 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ diff -rq .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/ .config/xfce4 diff: .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/desktop/icons.screen.latest.rc: No such file or directory Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/desktop: icons.screen0-1008x725.rc Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/desktop: icons.screen0-1424x857.rc Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/desktop: icons.screen0-1664x1007.rc Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/desktop: icons.screen0-1904x1037.rc Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/desktop: icons.screen0-1904x1064.rc Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/desktop: icons.screen0-2928x1037.rc Files .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/desktop/icons.screen0-3824x1037.rc and .config/xfce4/desktop/icons.screen0-3824x1037.rc differ Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/: help.rc Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/panel: launcher-15 Only in .config/xfce4/panel: launcher-17 Only in .config/xfce4/panel: launcher-18 Only in .config/xfce4/panel: launcher-19 Only in .config/xfce4/panel: launcher-20 Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/panel: launcher-24 Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/panel: launcher-28 Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/panel: launcher-7 Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/: src Files .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/terminal/accels.scm and .config/xfce4/terminal/accels.scm differ Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/terminal: terminalrc Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-180045/: xfce4-screenshooter Only in .config/xfce4-20240418-18004
Re: Fwd: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared
On 4/17/24 13:56, e...@gmx.us wrote: On 4/17/24 15:37, Richmond wrote: David Christensen writes: My WAG is that nm-applet is failing to start, but I have been unable to find if and where any error message is reported. What are the permissions on the nm-applet binary? And is its filesystem mounted with noexec? 2024-04-18 02:27:18 root@laalaa ~ # df `which nm-applet` Filesystem 1M-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/mapper/sdb3_crypt12084M 8927M 2522M 78% / 2024-04-18 02:28:57 root@laalaa ~ # mount | grep sdb3 /dev/mapper/sdb3_crypt on / type ext4 (rw,relatime,errors=remount-ro) David
Re: Fwd: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared
On 4/17/24 12:37, Richmond wrote: David Christensen writes: On Sun 14/04/2024 at 13:29, David Christensen wrote: ... I have used the Xfce panel Network Manager applet for many years. Tonight, I noticed that it has disappeared (!). ... What are the permissions on the nm-applet binary? maybe it doesn't have permission to execute, or the process which starts it doesn't have permission. 2024-04-18 02:24:20 root@laalaa ~ # ls -l `which nm-applet` -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 250784 Feb 27 2021 /usr/bin/nm-applet I do not know what binary starts nm-applet, but here is a WAG: 2024-04-18 02:27:13 root@laalaa ~ # ll -l `which xfce4-panel` -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 363328 2021-02-27 08:29:44 /usr/bin/xfce4-panel David
Re: Fwd: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared
On Wed 17/04/2024 at 19:41, David Christensen wrote: > Forwarded Message > Subject: Re: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared > Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2024 11:38:49 -0700 > From: David Christensen > To: Gareth Evans > > On 4/17/24 03:47, Gareth Evans wrote: >> On Wed 17/04/2024 at 09:18, David Christensen >> wrote: >>> On 4/16/24 08:56, Gareth Evans wrote: >>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 00:18, David Christensen >>>> wrote: >>>>> On 4/15/24 09:21, Gareth Evans wrote: >>>>>>> On Sun 14/04/2024 at 13:29, David Christensen wrote: >>>>>>> ... >>>>>>> I have used the Xfce panel Network Manager applet for many years. >>>>>>> Tonight, I noticed that it has disappeared (!). >>>>>>> ... >>>>> 2024-04-15 16:08:23 dpchrist@laalaa ~ >>>>> $ ps aux | grep nm-applet >>>>> dpchrist1518 0.1 0.2 426500 35380 ?Sl 16:06 0:00 >>>>> nm-applet >>>>> dpchrist1940 0.0 0.0 3240 644 pts/0S+ 16:15 0:00 grep >>>>> nm-applet >>>>> >>>>> 2024-04-15 16:15:12 dpchrist@laalaa ~ >>>>> $ nm-applet >>>>> >>>>> 2024-04-15 16:15:31 dpchrist@laalaa ~ >>>>> $ ps aux | grep nm-applet >>>>> dpchrist1518 0.1 0.2 426500 35380 ?Sl 16:06 0:00 >>>>> nm-applet >>>>> dpchrist1952 0.0 0.0 3240 644 pts/0S+ 16:15 0:00 grep >>>>> nm-applet >>>> >>>> That seems to show it's running from the outset, just not being displayed >>>> on the panel. >>>> >>>> Does rebooting (or logging out and in again) bring it back? >>> >>> >>> No. >> >> OK. You may have checked this already, but in case not, if I install XFCE >> and go to >> >> Settings > Session and Startup > Application Autostart >> >> there is an entry in the list called >> >> "Network (Manage your network connections)" > > > It is checked. > > >> which shows a tooltip of "command: nm-applet" > > > Command: nm-applet > > >> Might this somehow have become unset? >> >> I'm not sure if it's possible for GUI config helpers to become detached from >> actual settings - this seems to describe the relevant locations: >> >> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/669372/xfce4-session-and-startup-where-are-autostart-items-saved > > > 2024-04-17 11:21:06 dpchrist@laalaa ~ > $ grep nm-applet ~/.config/autostart > grep: /home/dpchrist/.config/autostart: No such file or directory > > 2024-04-17 11:33:11 dpchrist@laalaa ~ > $ find .config -name autostart > > 2024-04-17 11:33:22 dpchrist@laalaa ~ > $ > > > 2024-04-17 11:34:14 dpchrist@laalaa ~ > $ grep -r nm-applet /etc/xdg/autostart > /etc/xdg/autostart/nm-applet.desktop:Exec=nm-applet > /etc/xdg/autostart/nm-applet.desktop:X-GNOME-Bugzilla-Component=nm-applet > > > My WAG is that nm-applet is failing to start, but I have been unable to > find if and where any error message is reported. There is apparently a long history of nm-applet/XFCE panel-related issues (and not many great answers), as evidenced by such as https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=161998 https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=6105 https://superuser.com/questions/900490/networkmanager-icon-on-notification-area-is-not-present If you get ps output like this directly after a reboot: >>>>> $ ps aux | grep nm-applet >>>>> dpchrist1518 0.1 0.2 426500 35380 ?Sl 16:06 0:00 >>>>> nm-applet then I don't think the issue is with the starting/running of nm-applet itself, but rather some issue with the notification plugin, which I'm not sure how to begin troubleshooting. I reluctantly abandoned XFCE partly due to panel instability some time ago. The advice in the final link to rm -rf ~/.config/xfce* might be a bit extreme, but I might try renaming it to force a rebuild on next login, and possibly reinstall task-xfce-desktop (or selected packages) Would be interesting to hear from anyone with XFCE panel troubleshooting experience. Best wishes, Gareth
Re: Fwd: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared
On 4/17/24 15:37, Richmond wrote:> David Christensen writes: > >> My WAG is that nm-applet is failing to start, but I have been unable to >> find if and where any error message is reported. > > What are the permissions on the nm-applet binary? And is its filesystem mounted with noexec? > maybe it doesn't have permission to execute, or the process which starts > it doesn't have permission. -- When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world -- "No, YOU move." -- J. Michael Straczynski
Re: Fwd: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared
David Christensen writes: > Forwarded Message > Subject: Re: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared > Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2024 11:38:49 -0700 > From: David Christensen > To: Gareth Evans > > On 4/17/24 03:47, Gareth Evans wrote: >> On Wed 17/04/2024 at 09:18, David Christensen >> wrote: >>> On 4/16/24 08:56, Gareth Evans wrote: >>>> On 16 Apr 2024, at 00:18, David Christensen >>>> wrote: >>>>> On 4/15/24 09:21, Gareth Evans wrote: >>>>>>> On Sun 14/04/2024 at 13:29, David Christensen wrote: >>>>>>> ... >>>>>>> I have used the Xfce panel Network Manager applet for many years. >>>>>>> Tonight, I noticed that it has disappeared (!). >>>>>>> ... >>>>> 2024-04-15 16:08:23 dpchrist@laalaa ~ >>>>> $ ps aux | grep nm-applet >>>>> dpchrist1518 0.1 0.2 426500 35380 ?Sl 16:06 0:00 >>>>> nm-applet >>>>> dpchrist1940 0.0 0.0 3240 644 pts/0S+ 16:15 0:00 grep >>>>> nm-applet >>>>> >>>>> 2024-04-15 16:15:12 dpchrist@laalaa ~ >>>>> $ nm-applet >>>>> >>>>> 2024-04-15 16:15:31 dpchrist@laalaa ~ >>>>> $ ps aux | grep nm-applet >>>>> dpchrist1518 0.1 0.2 426500 35380 ?Sl 16:06 0:00 >>>>> nm-applet >>>>> dpchrist1952 0.0 0.0 3240 644 pts/0S+ 16:15 0:00 grep >>>>> nm-applet >>>> >>>> That seems to show it's running from the outset, just not being displayed >>>> on the panel. >>>> >>>> Does rebooting (or logging out and in again) bring it back? >>> >>> >>> No. >> OK. You may have checked this already, but in case not, if I >> install XFCE and go to >> Settings > Session and Startup > Application Autostart >> there is an entry in the list called >> "Network (Manage your network connections)" > > > It is checked. > > >> which shows a tooltip of "command: nm-applet" > > > Command: nm-applet > > >> Might this somehow have become unset? >> I'm not sure if it's possible for GUI config helpers to become >> detached from actual settings - this seems to describe the relevant >> locations: >> https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/669372/xfce4-session-and-startup-where-are-autostart-items-saved > > > 2024-04-17 11:21:06 dpchrist@laalaa ~ > $ grep nm-applet ~/.config/autostart > grep: /home/dpchrist/.config/autostart: No such file or directory > > 2024-04-17 11:33:11 dpchrist@laalaa ~ > $ find .config -name autostart > > 2024-04-17 11:33:22 dpchrist@laalaa ~ > $ > > > 2024-04-17 11:34:14 dpchrist@laalaa ~ > $ grep -r nm-applet /etc/xdg/autostart > /etc/xdg/autostart/nm-applet.desktop:Exec=nm-applet > /etc/xdg/autostart/nm-applet.desktop:X-GNOME-Bugzilla-Component=nm-applet > > > My WAG is that nm-applet is failing to start, but I have been unable > to find if and where any error message is reported. > What are the permissions on the nm-applet binary? maybe it doesn't have permission to execute, or the process which starts it doesn't have permission.
Re: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared
On Wed, 17 Apr 2024 11:41:24 -0700 David Christensen wrote: > My WAG is that nm-applet is failing to start, but I have been unable > to find if and where any error message is reported. My instance of nm-applet does run, and I see this as part of the boot process: root@hawk:~# journalctl -b | grep nm-app Apr 15 11:27:42 hawk NetworkManager[1354]: [1713202062.7737] agent-manager: agent[108f011a1115d508,:1.131/org.freedesktop.nm-applet/1000]: agent registered root@hawk:~# I suspect that if nm-applet doesn't start, you won't see any output from that command. -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Fwd: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared
Forwarded Message Subject: Re: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2024 01:18:34 -0700 From: David Christensen To: Gareth Evans On 4/16/24 08:56, Gareth Evans wrote: On 16 Apr 2024, at 00:18, David Christensen wrote: On 4/15/24 09:21, Gareth Evans wrote: On Sun 14/04/2024 at 13:29, David Christensen wrote: ... I have used the Xfce panel Network Manager applet for many years. Tonight, I noticed that it has disappeared (!). ... 2024-04-15 16:08:23 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ ps aux | grep nm-applet dpchrist1518 0.1 0.2 426500 35380 ?Sl 16:06 0:00 nm-applet dpchrist1940 0.0 0.0 3240 644 pts/0S+ 16:15 0:00 grep nm-applet 2024-04-15 16:15:12 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ nm-applet 2024-04-15 16:15:31 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ ps aux | grep nm-applet dpchrist1518 0.1 0.2 426500 35380 ?Sl 16:06 0:00 nm-applet dpchrist1952 0.0 0.0 3240 644 pts/0S+ 16:15 0:00 grep nm-applet That seems to show it's running from the outset, just not being displayed on the panel. Does rebooting (or logging out and in again) bring it back? No. David
Fwd: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared
Forwarded Message Subject: Re: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2024 11:38:49 -0700 From: David Christensen To: Gareth Evans On 4/17/24 03:47, Gareth Evans wrote: On Wed 17/04/2024 at 09:18, David Christensen wrote: On 4/16/24 08:56, Gareth Evans wrote: On 16 Apr 2024, at 00:18, David Christensen wrote: On 4/15/24 09:21, Gareth Evans wrote: On Sun 14/04/2024 at 13:29, David Christensen wrote: ... I have used the Xfce panel Network Manager applet for many years. Tonight, I noticed that it has disappeared (!). ... 2024-04-15 16:08:23 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ ps aux | grep nm-applet dpchrist1518 0.1 0.2 426500 35380 ?Sl 16:06 0:00 nm-applet dpchrist1940 0.0 0.0 3240 644 pts/0S+ 16:15 0:00 grep nm-applet 2024-04-15 16:15:12 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ nm-applet 2024-04-15 16:15:31 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ ps aux | grep nm-applet dpchrist1518 0.1 0.2 426500 35380 ?Sl 16:06 0:00 nm-applet dpchrist1952 0.0 0.0 3240 644 pts/0S+ 16:15 0:00 grep nm-applet That seems to show it's running from the outset, just not being displayed on the panel. Does rebooting (or logging out and in again) bring it back? No. OK. You may have checked this already, but in case not, if I install XFCE and go to Settings > Session and Startup > Application Autostart there is an entry in the list called "Network (Manage your network connections)" It is checked. which shows a tooltip of "command: nm-applet" Command: nm-applet Might this somehow have become unset? I'm not sure if it's possible for GUI config helpers to become detached from actual settings - this seems to describe the relevant locations: https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/669372/xfce4-session-and-startup-where-are-autostart-items-saved 2024-04-17 11:21:06 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ grep nm-applet ~/.config/autostart grep: /home/dpchrist/.config/autostart: No such file or directory 2024-04-17 11:33:11 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ find .config -name autostart 2024-04-17 11:33:22 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ 2024-04-17 11:34:14 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ grep -r nm-applet /etc/xdg/autostart /etc/xdg/autostart/nm-applet.desktop:Exec=nm-applet /etc/xdg/autostart/nm-applet.desktop:X-GNOME-Bugzilla-Component=nm-applet My WAG is that nm-applet is failing to start, but I have been unable to find if and where any error message is reported. David
Re: e1000e driver Network Card Detected Hardware Unit Hang
In days of yore (Tue, 16 Apr 2024), Jamie thus quoth: > Look this is a kernel bug and Debian needs to > fix this! Don't give me any of this crap about upstream > this is a bug with the Debian Kernel! Pay attention, because I am now in Support Mode as a former Principal Technical Account Manager for Red Hat. No, this is not necessarily a kernel bug. It can be a hardware bug and it is plausible it can not be solved with a driver work-around. You are hitting a problem and you want someone else to fix it for you. The answer may simply be that you need to replace the NIC with something else. FWIW, I have these Intel NICs in my two NUCs and they are functioning fine. With Debian 12.5 and the latest updates. $ lspci -v -s 00:1f.6 00:1f.6 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation Ethernet Connection I219-V (rev 21) DeviceName: LAN Subsystem: Intel Corporation Ethernet Connection I219-V Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 123, IOMMU group 7 Memory at df10 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=128K] Capabilities: Kernel driver in use: e1000e Kernel modules: e1000e The revision of the NIC may determine whether you have *hardware* problems or not. > This needs to be fixed! Quick answer: replace the NIC. And do some groundwork to determine if the NIC you replace it with has issues you should be aware of or not. > I have already tried disabling the offloads and it does > not work. The specific offloads seemed to be the CRC related ones. # ethtool -k eno1 Features for eno1: rx-checksumming: on tx-checksumming: on tx-checksum-ipv4: off [fixed] tx-checksum-ip-generic: on tx-checksum-ipv6: off [fixed] tx-checksum-fcoe-crc: off [fixed] tx-checksum-sctp: off [fixed] Note: when you disable these, throughput can drop sharply. The other setting suggested was to hike the TX ringbuffer. # ethtool -g eno1 Ring parameters for eno1: Pre-set maximums: RX: 4096 RX Mini:n/a RX Jumbo: n/a TX: 4096 Current hardware settings: RX: 256 RX Mini:n/a RX Jumbo: n/a TX: 256 RX Buf Len: n/a CQE Size: n/a TX Push:off TCP data split: n/a # ethtool -G eno1 tx 2048 rx 2048 # ethtool -g eno1 Ring parameters for eno1: Pre-set maximums: RX: 4096 RX Mini:n/a RX Jumbo: n/a TX: 4096 Current hardware settings: RX: 2048 RX Mini:n/a RX Jumbo: n/a TX: 2048 RX Buf Len: n/a CQE Size: n/a TX Push:off TCP data split: n/a The reason the ringbuffers are important is that the kernel and the OS can construct packets faster in bursts than the NIC can handle, so the OS can queue up packets in the ringbuffer and the NIC can asynchronously pick the packets from the buffer and send them across the wire. If the ringbuffers are set too small, they will overflow and you will get overflow errors. # ethtool -S eno1 NIC statistics: rx_packets: 24463 tx_packets: 6358 rx_bytes: 3093199 tx_bytes: 669733 rx_broadcast: 8044 tx_broadcast: 9 rx_multicast: 10434 tx_multicast: 2510 rx_errors: 0 tx_errors: 0 tx_dropped: 0 If buffers are set too small, this increases multicast: 10434 collisions: 0 rx_length_errors: 0 rx_over_errors: 0 rx_crc_errors: 0 rx_frame_errors: 0 rx_no_buffer_count: 0 rx_missed_errors: 0 tx_aborted_errors: 0 tx_carrier_errors: 0 tx_fifo_errors: 0 tx_heartbeat_errors: 0 tx_window_errors: 0 tx_abort_late_coll: 0 tx_deferred_ok: 0 tx_single_coll_ok: 0 tx_multi_coll_ok: 0 tx_timeout_count: 0 tx_restart_queue: 0 rx_long_length_errors: 0 rx_short_length_errors: 0 rx_align_errors: 0 tx_tcp_seg_good: 0 tx_tcp_seg_failed: 0 rx_flow_control_xon: 9 rx_flow_control_xoff: 9 tx_flow_control_xon: 0 tx_flow_control_xoff: 0 rx_csum_offload_good: 8539 If you have issues with checksum rx_csum_offload_errors: 0 offload, check these rx_header_split: 0 alloc_rx_buff_failed: 0 tx_smbus: 0 rx_smbus: 0 dropped_smbus: 0 rx_dma_failed: 0 tx_dma_failed: 0 rx_hwtstamp_cleared: 0 uncorr_ecc_errors: 0 corr_ecc_errors: 0 tx_hwtstamp_timeouts: 0 tx_hwtstamp_skipped: 0 > It isn't the cable either I have tried different cables it > still happens! This is an issue with the Kernel module for > the e1000e NIC card. Excellent data-point, you have ruled out whether the cable is faulty or not. But your assumption that this is the kernel module that is broken is still faulty. Provably, I am running the same type of NIC (albeit a different revision) with the same driver and I do not observe any issues. Thus, leveraging Occam's Razor, it follows that scrutinising your particular NIC
Re: e1000e driver Network Card Detected Hardware Unit Hang
On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 09:05:29AM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > It has been known to happen that drivers implement workarounds for issues > > in the hardware itself, so that hardware bugs do not get tripped (or are > > tripped less often). > > > > You make it sound like it's a rare occurrence, but it's actually > quite common. Most of it is discrete so you'll rarely be exposed to it, > but `grep bugs /proc/cpuinfo` is one of the places where you can see it > being somewhat documented. One might argue that a driver's whole raison d'être /is/ to work around hardware bugs. But then, perhaps I'm a cynic ;-) Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: e1000e driver Network Card Detected Hardware Unit Hang
> It has been known to happen that drivers implement workarounds for issues > in the hardware itself, so that hardware bugs do not get tripped (or are > tripped less often). You make it sound like it's a rare occurrence, but it's actually quite common. Most of it is discrete so you'll rarely be exposed to it, but `grep bugs /proc/cpuinfo` is one of the places where you can see it being somewhat documented. Stefan
Re: e1000e driver Network Card Detected Hardware Unit Hang
In days of yore (Tue, 16 Apr 2024), Sirius thus quoth: > In days of yore (Mon, 15 Apr 2024), Jamie thus quoth: > > So there is a very nasty bug in the e1000e network card > > driver. Doing some reading turned up a Proxmox thread about the issues with these Intel NICs. https://forum.proxmox.com/threads/e1000-driver-hang.58284/page-10 May be worth scanning that thread and applying some of their solutions to this problem. -- Kind regards, /S
Re: e1000e driver Network Card Detected Hardware Unit Hang
In days of yore (Mon, 15 Apr 2024), Jamie thus quoth: > So there is a very nasty bug in the e1000e network card > driver. https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/05480/ethernet-products.html notes that MSI interrupts may be problematic on some systems. Worth digging into whether that is an issue on this system of yours. I am not sure Debian can resolve this problem with the driver, but upstream kernel folks might. Unsure whether Intel still helps maintain this driver as it is quite old (I dealt with support issues on this driver some 15-16 years ago). The Intel page states this is upstream kernel only at this point, so going to SourceForge for their out-of-tree driver is no longer an option. > I am running Debian 12 Bookworm. > > You will get the message "Detected Hardware Unit Hang" and then > the network card just stops working. [snip] > This is a gigabit network card as I said it is a built in NIC I believe it > is an Intel NIC. It is an Intel NIC. Most of the NIC drivers beginning with an 'e' followed by numbers are Intel as far as I know. These NICs were very common as on-board NICs in OEM systems as Intel provided them in large volumes. They are not the best, but they usually do their job. [snip] > This seems to happen when you are actually pushing a bit of traffic > though it not a lot but just even a little bit. It isn't network overload > or anything I am barely doing anything really but it will do this. If it is a hardware hang, it may be the NIC firmware getting its knickers in a twist, and that is not something the kernel or the driver can do much about. > I have already tried the following > > ethtool -K eth1 tx off rx off > ethtool -K eth1 tso off gso off > ethtool -K eth1 gso off gro off tso off tx off rx off rxvlan off txvlan > off sg off All worthwhile things to try. You can also try reducing the RX buffers from the default 4096 to 2048 if you are not running a lot of traffic. It might not help, but worth trying. > I have disabled all power management in the bios as well including the one > for ASPM > > I added the following to grub > > pcie_aspm=off e1000e.SmartPowerDownEnable=0 > > > This is in /etc/default/grub > GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet pcie_aspm=off > e1000e.SmartPowerDownEnable=0" Good thinking about power management. :) > Then I did an update-grub as well. > > None of this has worked in fixing this problem. I am still getting the > same issue. Best bet at this point would be to scout the Linux Kernel Mailing List archives to see if anyone else have run into the same problems, and then reviewing the kernel maintainers list to find someone that works on the e1000e driver to strike up a direct dialogue with them. > Can you please fix this issue this is a really nasty problem with Debian > 12 (Bookworm) > > I am seeing this being reported back in Kernel 5.3.x but i am not seeing any > reports for 6.1.x about this issue. > > Debian Bug report logs - #945912 > Kernel 5.3 e100e Detected Hardware Unit Hang > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=945912 If it has been reported before and is still present now, one of two things is likely true. 1) the problem was intermittent and could not be reliably reproduced in order to debug and resolve 2) the problem was related to the hardware itself, and there was no way to fix it in either driver or firmware It has been known to happen that drivers implement workarounds for issues in the hardware itself, so that hardware bugs do not get tripped (or are tripped less often). > Please reply back and confirm that you got this email and that you are > looking into this problem please. To state the obvious, I am not a kernel maintainer for Debian and do not speak on behalf of the Debian project. I work for a Linux company you may have heard of and have done so for almost eighteen years, a decade of which was in support. 15 years ago, I know exactly who I would have gone to to look into this problem, but he now works for Broadcom and probably has forgotten all about the e1000/e1000e drivers. Upstream driver maintainer would be the best bet IMHO. If this driver is community support only (i.e. if Intel no longer participates in driver maintenance), I would say that all bets are off. With only one datapoint - your system and your NIC, it is not possible to rule out that the NIC itself is bad. :-/ > -- This email message, including any attachments, is for the intended > recipient(s) only and may contain information that is privileged, > confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you > have received this message in error, or are obviously not one of the > intended recipients, please immediately notify the sender by reply email > and delete this email message, including any attach
e1000e driver Network Card Detected Hardware Unit Hang
So there is a very nasty bug in the e1000e network card driver. I am running Debian 12 Bookworm. You will get the message "Detected Hardware Unit Hang" and then the network card just stops working. This is a built in NIC on the computer The computer is a is a HP Prodesk 600 G4 MT This is the mini tower version as denoted by the MT. This log comes from my /var/log/syslog. Apr 15 01:57:12 gateway vmunix: [ 7743.893557] e1000e :00:1f.6 eth1: Detected Hardware Unit Hang: Apr 15 01:57:12 gateway vmunix: [ 7743.893557] TDH Apr 15 01:57:12 gateway vmunix: [ 7743.893557] TDT Apr 15 01:57:12 gateway vmunix: [ 7743.893557] next_to_use Apr 15 01:57:12 gateway vmunix: [ 7743.893557] next_to_clean Apr 15 01:57:12 gateway vmunix: [ 7743.893557] buffer_info[next_to_clean]: Apr 15 01:57:12 gateway vmunix: [ 7743.893557] time_stamp <1001c6345> Apr 15 01:57:12 gateway vmunix: [ 7743.893557] next_to_watch Apr 15 01:57:12 gateway vmunix: [ 7743.893557] jiffies <1001c6550> Apr 15 01:57:12 gateway vmunix: [ 7743.893557] next_to_watch.status <0> Apr 15 01:57:12 gateway vmunix: [ 7743.893557] MAC Status <80083> Apr 15 01:57:12 gateway vmunix: [ 7743.893557] PHY Status <796d> Apr 15 01:57:12 gateway vmunix: [ 7743.893557] PHY 1000BASE-T Status <3800> Apr 15 01:57:12 gateway vmunix: [ 7743.893557] PHY Extended Status <3000> Apr 15 01:57:12 gateway vmunix: [ 7743.893557] PCI Status <10> Apr 15 01:57:13 gateway vmunix: [ 7744.123237] net-fw DROP IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=00:13:3b:e3:8f:b0:0c:a4:02:35:6d:87:08:00 SRC=75.159.223.219 DST=199.126.41.116 LE> Apr 15 01:57:13 gateway vmunix: [ 7744.417235] net-fw DROP IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=00:13:3b:e3:8f:b0:0c:a4:02:35:6d:87:08:00 SRC=75.159.223.219 DST=199.126.41.116 LE> Apr 15 01:57:14 gateway vmunix: [ 7745.412183] net-fw DROP IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=00:13:3b:e3:8f:b0:0c:a4:02:35:6d:87:08:00 SRC=75.159.223.219 DST=199.126.41.116 LE> Apr 15 01:57:14 gateway vmunix: [ 7745.659234] net-fw DROP IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=00:13:3b:e3:8f:b0:0c:a4:02:35:6d:87:08:00 SRC=75.159.223.219 DST=199.126.41.116 LE> Apr 15 01:57:14 gateway vmunix: [ 7745.877564] e1000e :00:1f.6 eth1: Detected Hardware Unit Hang: Apr 15 01:57:14 gateway vmunix: [ 7745.877564] TDH Apr 15 01:57:14 gateway vmunix: [ 7745.877564] TDT Apr 15 01:57:14 gateway vmunix: [ 7745.877564] next_to_use Apr 15 01:57:14 gateway vmunix: [ 7745.877564] next_to_clean Apr 15 01:57:14 gateway vmunix: [ 7745.877564] buffer_info[next_to_clean]: Apr 15 01:57:14 gateway vmunix: [ 7745.877564] time_stamp <1001c6345> Apr 15 01:57:14 gateway vmunix: [ 7745.877564] next_to_watch Apr 15 01:57:14 gateway vmunix: [ 7745.877564] jiffies <1001c6740> Apr 15 01:57:14 gateway vmunix: [ 7745.877564] next_to_watch.status <0> Apr 15 01:57:14 gateway vmunix: [ 7745.877564] MAC Status <80083> Apr 15 01:57:14 gateway vmunix: [ 7745.877564] PHY Status <796d> Apr 15 01:57:14 gateway vmunix: [ 7745.877564] PHY 1000BASE-T Status <3800> Apr 15 01:57:14 gateway vmunix: [ 7745.877564] PHY Extended Status <3000> Apr 15 01:57:14 gateway vmunix: [ 7745.877564] PCI Status <10> Apr 15 01:57:15 gateway vmunix: [ 7746.220253] net-fw DROP IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=00:13:3b:e3:8f:b0:0c:a4:02:35:6d:87:08:00 SRC=75.159.223.219 DST=199.126.41.116 LE> Apr 15 01:57:15 gateway vmunix: [ 7746.485268] net-fw DROP IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=00:13:3b:e3:8f:b0:0c:a4:02:35:6d:87:08:00 SRC=75.159.223.219 DST=199.126.41.116 LE> Apr 15 01:57:16 gateway vmunix: [ 7747.893578] e1000e :00:1f.6 eth1: Detected Hardware Unit Hang: Apr 15 01:57:16 gateway vmunix: [ 7747.893578] TDH Apr 15 01:57:16 gateway vmunix: [ 7747.893578] TDT Apr 15 01:57:16 gateway vmunix: [ 7747.893578] next_to_use Apr 15 01:57:16 gateway vmunix: [ 7747.893578] next_to_clean Apr 15 01:57:16 gateway vmunix: [ 7747.893578] buffer_info[next_to_clean]: Apr 15 01:57:16 gateway vmunix: [ 7747.893578] time_stamp <1001c6345> Apr 15 01:57:16 gateway vmunix: [ 7747.893578] next_to_watch Apr 15 01:57:16 gateway vmunix: [ 7747.893578] jiffies <1001c6938> Apr 15 01:57:16 gateway vmunix: [ 7747.893578] next_to_watch.status <0> Apr 15 01:57:16 gateway vmunix: [ 7747.893578] MAC Status <80083> Apr 15 01:57:16 gateway vmunix: [ 7747.893578] PHY Status <796d> Apr 15 01:57:16 gateway vmunix: [ 7747.893578] PHY 1000BASE-T Status <3800> Apr 15 01:57:16 gateway vmunix: [ 7747.893578] PHY Extended Status <3000> Apr 15 01:57:16 gateway vmunix: [ 7747.893578] PCI Status <10> It does this multiple tim
Re: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared
On 4/15/24 09:21, Gareth Evans wrote: On Sun 14/04/2024 at 13:29, David Christensen wrote: ... I have used the Xfce panel Network Manager applet for many years. Tonight, I noticed that it has disappeared (!). ... Hi David, I can't speak for XFCE, but certainly for Mate there was a time when multiple notification area panel widgets were available, not all of which would show everything to be expected. Is that a possibility? Does $ ps aux |grep nm-applet show anything? Before or after $ nm-applet ? 2024-04-15 16:08:23 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ ps aux | grep nm-applet dpchrist1518 0.1 0.2 426500 35380 ?Sl 16:06 0:00 nm-applet dpchrist1940 0.0 0.0 3240 644 pts/0S+ 16:15 0:00 grep nm-applet 2024-04-15 16:15:12 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ nm-applet 2024-04-15 16:15:31 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ ps aux | grep nm-applet dpchrist1518 0.1 0.2 426500 35380 ?Sl 16:06 0:00 nm-applet dpchrist1952 0.0 0.0 3240 644 pts/0S+ 16:15 0:00 grep nm-applet David
Re: Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared
On Sun 14/04/2024 at 13:29, David Christensen wrote: > debian-user: > > I have a Dell Latitude E6520: > > 2024-04-14 04:28:39 dpchrist@laalaa ~ > $ cat /etc/debian_version ; uname -a > 11.9 > Linux laalaa 5.10.0-28-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.209-2 (2024-01-31) > x86_64 GNU/Linux > > 2024-04-14 04:34:40 dpchrist@laalaa ~ > $ dpkg-query -l xfce4 network-manager network-manager-gnome > Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold > | > Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend > |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) > ||/ Name Version Architecture Description > +++-=---===== > ii network-manager 1.30.6-1+deb11u1 amd64network > management framework (daemon and userspace tools) > ii network-manager-gnome 1.20.0-3 amd64network > management framework (GNOME frontend) > ii xfce4 4.16 all Meta-package > for > the Xfce Lightweight Desktop Environment > > > I have used the Xfce panel Network Manager applet for many years. > Tonight, I noticed that it has disappeared (!). > > > But, the machine is connected to my LAN: > > 2024-04-14 05:24:10 root@laalaa ~ > # ifconfig wlp3s0 > wlp3s0: flags=4163 mtu 1500 > inet 192.168.REDACTED netmask 255.255.255.0 broadcast > 192.168.REDACTED > inet6 REDACTED prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x20 > ether REDACTED txqueuelen 1000 (Ethernet) > RX packets 5786 bytes 2830592 (2.6 MiB) > RX errors 0 dropped 119 overruns 0 frame 0 > TX packets 3897 bytes 518278 (506.1 KiB) > TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0 > > > Looking in the the Xfce panel Application Menu, I am unable to find > Network Manager. > > > Looking at the Debian WIKI page "NetworkManager": > > https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkManager > > > It looks like the Network Manager daemon is running: > > 2024-04-14 04:32:49 dpchrist@laalaa ~ > $ ps -A | grep -i network > 828 ?00:00:00 NetworkManager > > > nm-applet(1) looks like the program I want (?). Attempting to start it > via a terminal has no effect: > > 2024-04-14 04:40:25 dpchrist@laalaa ~ > $ which nm-applet > /usr/bin/nm-applet > > 2024-04-14 05:27:05 dpchrist@laalaa ~ > $ nm-applet > > 2024-04-14 05:27:08 dpchrist@laalaa ~ > $ > > > RTFM nm-applet(1), it seems the desktop session manager is failing to > start nm-applet(1) (?): > > 2024-04-14 04:58:49 dpchrist@laalaa ~ > $ man nm-applet | cat > ... > DESCRIPTION > nm-applet is a GTK-based GUI applet to monitor network status > and devices and to start and stop network connections managed > by NetworkManager. nm-applet is normally started at login by > the desktop session manager and does not need to be run manu- > ally. nm-applet conforms to the XDG System Tray specification > and requires that the desktop environment provide a System Tray > implementation in which the applet will be embedded. > > > I am unable to find relevant error messages under /var/log. > > > The network Connection Editor can be run via a terminal: > > 2024-04-14 04:55:29 dpchrist@laalaa ~ > $ which nm-connection-editor > /usr/bin/nm-connection-editor > > 2024-04-14 04:55:38 dpchrist@laalaa ~ > $ nm-connection-editor > > > Does anyone know why the Network Manager Xfce panel applet is missing, > how to get it back, and/or how to start it some other way? > > > David Hi David, I can't speak for XFCE, but certainly for Mate there was a time when multiple notification area panel widgets were available, not all of which would show everything to be expected. Is that a possibility? Does $ ps aux |grep nm-applet show anything? Before or after $ nm-applet ?
Debian 11 Xfce panel Network Manager applet has disappeared
debian-user: I have a Dell Latitude E6520: 2024-04-14 04:28:39 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ cat /etc/debian_version ; uname -a 11.9 Linux laalaa 5.10.0-28-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.209-2 (2024-01-31) x86_64 GNU/Linux 2024-04-14 04:34:40 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ dpkg-query -l xfce4 network-manager network-manager-gnome Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold | Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) ||/ Name Version Architecture Description +++-=---= ii network-manager 1.30.6-1+deb11u1 amd64network management framework (daemon and userspace tools) ii network-manager-gnome 1.20.0-3 amd64network management framework (GNOME frontend) ii xfce4 4.16 all Meta-package for the Xfce Lightweight Desktop Environment I have used the Xfce panel Network Manager applet for many years. Tonight, I noticed that it has disappeared (!). But, the machine is connected to my LAN: 2024-04-14 05:24:10 root@laalaa ~ # ifconfig wlp3s0 wlp3s0: flags=4163 mtu 1500 inet 192.168.REDACTED netmask 255.255.255.0 broadcast 192.168.REDACTED inet6 REDACTED prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x20 ether REDACTED txqueuelen 1000 (Ethernet) RX packets 5786 bytes 2830592 (2.6 MiB) RX errors 0 dropped 119 overruns 0 frame 0 TX packets 3897 bytes 518278 (506.1 KiB) TX errors 0 dropped 0 overruns 0 carrier 0 collisions 0 Looking in the the Xfce panel Application Menu, I am unable to find Network Manager. Looking at the Debian WIKI page "NetworkManager": https://wiki.debian.org/NetworkManager It looks like the Network Manager daemon is running: 2024-04-14 04:32:49 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ ps -A | grep -i network 828 ?00:00:00 NetworkManager nm-applet(1) looks like the program I want (?). Attempting to start it via a terminal has no effect: 2024-04-14 04:40:25 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ which nm-applet /usr/bin/nm-applet 2024-04-14 05:27:05 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ nm-applet 2024-04-14 05:27:08 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ RTFM nm-applet(1), it seems the desktop session manager is failing to start nm-applet(1) (?): 2024-04-14 04:58:49 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ man nm-applet | cat ... DESCRIPTION nm-applet is a GTK-based GUI applet to monitor network status and devices and to start and stop network connections managed by NetworkManager. nm-applet is normally started at login by the desktop session manager and does not need to be run manu- ally. nm-applet conforms to the XDG System Tray specification and requires that the desktop environment provide a System Tray implementation in which the applet will be embedded. I am unable to find relevant error messages under /var/log. The network Connection Editor can be run via a terminal: 2024-04-14 04:55:29 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ which nm-connection-editor /usr/bin/nm-connection-editor 2024-04-14 04:55:38 dpchrist@laalaa ~ $ nm-connection-editor Does anyone know why the Network Manager Xfce panel applet is missing, how to get it back, and/or how to start it some other way? David
[SOLVED Re: network-priority?
Hi all, thank you for the fast response. Your answers did help much and made everything clear. Have a nice weekend! Best Hans
Re: network-priority?
On 05/04/2024 04:29, David Wright wrote: autoconnect-priorityint32 0 [...] from https://developer-old.gnome.org/NetworkManager/stable/settings-connection.html (I don't know the significance of -old.) It is documented in nm-settings-nmcli(5)
Re: network-priority?
On Thu 04 Apr 2024 at 19:11:31 (+0200), Hans wrote: > again an easy thing, I did not understand and where I did not find a clear > answer in the web. > > Question: > > In network-manager I find "network-priority" set to "0". > > Is zero the highes priority or the lowest? This might be what you mean: autoconnect-priorityint32 0 The autoconnect priority. If the connection is set to autoconnect, connections with higher priority will be preferred. Defaults to 0. The higher number means higher priority. from https://developer-old.gnome.org/NetworkManager/stable/settings-connection.html (I don't know the significance of -old.) > Lets imagine, i have 3 wifi (wifi-1, wifi-2 and wifi-3). > wifi-1 one should be the first, I want to connect, then wifi-2 and last > wifi-3. > > How it is to set? > > wifi-1 = 0 > wifi-2 = 1 > wifi-2 = 2 > > or 2,1,0? The latter. I assume you'll choose better names and avoid the typo. You might prefer higher numbers, leaving zero for the default; say 30, 20, 10. Cheers, David.
network-priority?
Hi folks, again an easy thing, I did not understand and where I did not find a clear answer in the web. Question: In network-manager I find "network-priority" set to "0". Is zero the highes priority or the lowest? Lets imagine, i have 3 wifi (wifi-1, wifi-2 and wifi-3). wifi-1 one should be the first, I want to connect, then wifi-2 and last wifi-3. How it is to set? wifi-1 = 0 wifi-2 = 1 wifi-2 = 2 or 2,1,0? Or are the numbers code for behaviour? (Here I think like numbers at files, where 577 = r-x,rwx,rwx) A short answer is very ok. Best Hans
Re: debian12: something destroys /etc/network/interfaces at boot
Thank you for your mail. On Wed, Mar 27, 2024 at 12:42 AM Andy Smith wrote: > On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 06:33:42PM +0100, Steffen Dettmer wrote: > > I changed a gateway on a remote site using /etc/network/interfaces by > > changing gateway. However, at reboot some old gateway IP reappears. I I also think that there is some Debian packaging rule about one > package not altering the config file of another package unless by > co-operation between the maintainers, so if this does actually turn > out to be Debian there might be bugs to report. Thanks to Pierre-Elliott it became clear that this was caused by a virtualisation platform, so to say "change from outside", and thus I found nothing related "inside". (This is a Proxmox feature to setup containers, and someone made a mistake in the Proxmox configuration;so nothing wrong in Debian at all) Steffen
Re: debian12: something destroys /etc/network/interfaces at boot
Thank you for your quick reply. On Wed, Mar 27, 2024 at 12:22 AM Henning Follmann wrote: > On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 06:33:42PM +0100, Steffen Dettmer wrote: > > I changed a gateway on a remote site using /etc/network/interfaces by > > changing gateway. However, at reboot some old gateway IP reappears. I > > I have no clue where the wrong 2.43 comes from. > [...] deleted that nonsense. Nonsense? I think the lines illustrate the issue to the experienced eye and in fact, it did, so that Pierre-Elliott spotted the issue (I tell it in a second). > why are you making it so difficult to anyone trying to help you? I don't know, surely not intentional. I just ran out of ideas. > Nobody is interested in your way how you edit that file. Sure, except: Emacs or Vim, which is better? (Just kidding :)) > please show us two versions of that file (pre reboot and after) > Also tell us any programs you use to manage your network settings I had told I would use vim to edit the file... but I had been wrong! The machine I SSH'd to in fact was not a machine, but rather a container, and the network configured by the virtualisation environment! That is what changes the IP. The container op made an error in the IP and I was the unfortunate one just arriving in time :) > [] NetworkManager > [] systemd-networkd > [] some magic own scripts > [] ... [x] vim [x] Proxmox (but I didn't know this) (*1) (*1) don't work together well :) Regards, Steffen
Re: debian12: something destroys /etc/network/interfaces at boot
On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 11:27 PM Dustin Jenkins wrote: > On my Debian 12 system, the connman service was helping itself to interfaces, > including my bridge interfaces that I wanted left alone. Maybe try disabling > or removing it? > > sudo systemctl stop connman > sudo systemctl disable connman Thank you for your help! Yes, good idea! (I don't have it, but a good point. Related, I read often in internet of similar possible issues with some network manager versions) I couldn't see the cause in the whole file system, and as Thankfully Pierre-Elliott Bécue correctly saw from a wide distance that this is because - it is in fact not in the file system. But outside. Namely a virtualisation environment set it into a container (the machine actually is "just" a container). Regards, Steffen
Re: debian12: something destroys /etc/network/interfaces at boot
Thank your for your quick and detailed reply. On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 7:01 PM Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 06:33:42PM +0100, Steffen Dettmer wrote: > > I changed a gateway on a remote site using /etc/network/interfaces by > > changing gateway. However, at reboot some old gateway IP reappears. > > So then the question is *which* of the many different subsystems is in > use to set the system's default gateway. It might be coming from /e/n/i > or from NetworkManager or from systemd-networkd or others. Yes, but I found nothing in any logfile, the IP did not appear anywhere in the file system and I had no idea what to do... It turned out the machine actually is a virtualisation container and the infrastructure configures the IP (which was incorrectly set in the virtualization web GUI). Well, and I didn't see this, but fortunately Pierre-Elliott Bécue (from this list) saw it instead. > > root@site4-nas:~# ls -l /etc/network/interfaces > > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 117 Mar 26 18:19 /etc/network/interfaces > > root@site4-nas:~# grep gateway /etc/network/interfaces > > gateway 192.168.2.43 > > See, that's not useful. That's not how this file is structured. It's > NOT just a series of independent lines. Yes, thanks, sure, I know. I just wanted to show that it does change automagically at reboot (it is written by virtualisation environment when the container is being started). The stanza was correct, just gateway IP was wrong, because someome made an error in the container configuration and it just so happend that it was my little foot where it fell onto... Best regards, Steffen
Re: debian12: something destroys /etc/network/interfaces at boot
On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 7:18 PM Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: > As it's a PVE kernel I guess you rely on Proxmox. > *Theoretically*, Proxmox VE uses /etc/network/interfaces.new to apply THIS! (OMG why didn't I see this! Thank you!!) ohh thanks so much for your quick reply, my "machine" indeed is a Proxmox-Container, and someone made a typo in the container settings, so Proxmox configures the container accordingly. For other files, like resolv.conf, Proxmox adds "# --- BEGIN PVE ---" lines, but not in interfaces. Thank you Steffen
Re: debian12: something destroys /etc/network/interfaces at boot
Hello, On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 06:33:42PM +0100, Steffen Dettmer wrote: > I changed a gateway on a remote site using /etc/network/interfaces by > changing gateway. However, at reboot some old gateway IP reappears. I > really hate when some magic knows better than an explicitly set value. > What happens here? How can I get rid of this? It is 100% reproducible. > > I have no clue where the wrong 2.43 comes from. Is this actually Debian? I have vague memories of someone else asking something like this before, and at the time I wasn't aware of any software packaged in Debian that alters the user's /etc/network/interfaces file. I think in that case it turned out to not actually be Debian. I also think that there is some Debian packaging rule about one package not altering the config file of another package unless by co-operation between the maintainers, so if this does actually turn out to be Debian there might be bugs to report. Thanks, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
Re: debian12: something destroys /etc/network/interfaces at boot
On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 06:33:42PM +0100, Steffen Dettmer wrote: > Hi, > > I changed a gateway on a remote site using /etc/network/interfaces by > changing gateway. However, at reboot some old gateway IP reappears. I > really hate when some magic knows better than an explicitly set value. > What happens here? How can I get rid of this? It is 100% reproducible. > > I have no clue where the wrong 2.43 comes from. > > Any hints appreciated! > > Steffen > > [...] deleted that nonsense. Hello, why are you making it so difficult to anyone trying to help you? Nobody is interested in your way how you edit that file. please show us two versions of that file (pre reboot and after) Also tell us any programs you use to manage your network settings [] NetworkManager [] systemd-networkd [] some magic own scripts [] ... -H -- Henning Follmann | hfollm...@itcfollmann.com
Re: debian12: something destroys /etc/network/interfaces at boot
As it's a PVE kernel I guess you rely on Proxmox. *Theoretically*, Proxmox VE uses /etc/network/interfaces.new to apply its config and potential manual changes made by an administrator (changes that should be applied afterwards via ifreload). I'd wonder whether this mechanism is not the cause if your troubles. -- PEB Steffen Dettmer wrote on 26/03/2024 at 18:33:42+0100: > Hi, > > I changed a gateway on a remote site using /etc/network/interfaces by > changing gateway. However, at reboot some old gateway IP reappears. I > really hate when some magic knows better than an explicitly set value. > What happens here? How can I get rid of this? It is 100% reproducible. > > I have no clue where the wrong 2.43 comes from. > > Any hints appreciated! > > Steffen > > > root@site4-nas:~# ls -l /etc/network/interfaces > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 117 Mar 26 18:19 /etc/network/interfaces > root@site4-nas:~# grep gateway /etc/network/interfaces > gateway 192.168.2.43 > root@site4-nas:~# perl -npi -e 's/gateway 192.168.2.43/gateway > 192.168.2.1/' /etc/network/interface > s > root@site4-nas:~# grep gateway /etc/network/interfaces > gateway 192.168.2.1 > root@site4-nas:~# ls -l /etc/network/interfaces > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 116 Mar 26 18:21 /etc/network/interfaces > root@site4-nas:~# sync > root@site4-nas:~# date; sleep 1m; date > Tue Mar 26 06:21:47 PM CET 2024 > Tue Mar 26 06:22:47 PM CET 2024 > root@site4-nas:~# ls -l /etc/network/interfaces > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 116 Mar 26 18:21 /etc/network/interfaces > > OK, so gateway is correct in 18:21 timestamped user config file. Lets reboot. > > root@site4-nas:~# reboot > root@site4-nas:~# Connection to site4-nas closed by remote host. > Connection to site4-nas closed. > root@site4-pve:~# ssh site4-nas > Linux site4-nas 6.5.11-8-pve #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC PMX 6.5.11-8 > (2024-01-30T12:27Z) x86_64... > Last login: Tue Mar 26 18:20:50 2024 from 192.168.2.28 > root@site4-nas:~# ls -l /etc/network/interfaces > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 117 Mar 26 18:23 /etc/network/interfaces > root@site4-nas:~# grep gateway /etc/network/interfaces > gateway 192.168.2.43 > > root@site4-nas:~# find /etc /lib/systemd/ /var/lib/ -type f -print0 | > xargs --null grep 192.168.2.43 > /etc/network/interfaces:gateway 192.168.2.43 > > user config file has updated timestamp and contains bougous gateway. > > Help please! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: debian12: something destroys /etc/network/interfaces at boot
On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 06:33:42PM +0100, Steffen Dettmer wrote: > I changed a gateway on a remote site using /etc/network/interfaces by > changing gateway. However, at reboot some old gateway IP reappears. So then the question is *which* of the many different subsystems is in use to set the system's default gateway. It might be coming from /e/n/i or from NetworkManager or from systemd-networkd or others. > root@site4-nas:~# ls -l /etc/network/interfaces > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 117 Mar 26 18:19 /etc/network/interfaces > root@site4-nas:~# grep gateway /etc/network/interfaces > gateway 192.168.2.43 See, that's not useful. That's not how this file is structured. It's NOT just a series of independent lines. We would need to see the entire /e/n/i file to know which interface that gateway definition is associated with, and so on. A gateway definition on an interface that isn't managed by /e/n/i (ifupdown) will do nothing at all. For example, you might have an eno1 definition which includes a gateway line, but which does *not* have an "auto eno1" line to activate it -- in which case the interface might be managed by NetworkManager instead, or something else.
Re: debian12: something destroys /etc/network/interfaces at boot
On my Debian 12 system, the connman service was helping itself to interfaces, including my bridge interfaces that I wanted left alone. Maybe try disabling or removing it? sudo systemctl stop connman sudo systemctl disable connman Best > On Mar 26, 2024, at 10:33, Steffen Dettmer wrote: > > Hi, > > I changed a gateway on a remote site using /etc/network/interfaces by > changing gateway. However, at reboot some old gateway IP reappears. I > really hate when some magic knows better than an explicitly set value. > What happens here? How can I get rid of this? It is 100% reproducible. > > I have no clue where the wrong 2.43 comes from. > > Any hints appreciated! > > Steffen > > > root@site4-nas:~# ls -l /etc/network/interfaces > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 117 Mar 26 18:19 /etc/network/interfaces > root@site4-nas:~# grep gateway /etc/network/interfaces >gateway 192.168.2.43 > root@site4-nas:~# perl -npi -e 's/gateway 192.168.2.43/gateway > 192.168.2.1/' /etc/network/interface > s > root@site4-nas:~# grep gateway /etc/network/interfaces > gateway 192.168.2.1 > root@site4-nas:~# ls -l /etc/network/interfaces > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 116 Mar 26 18:21 /etc/network/interfaces > root@site4-nas:~# sync > root@site4-nas:~# date; sleep 1m; date > Tue Mar 26 06:21:47 PM CET 2024 > Tue Mar 26 06:22:47 PM CET 2024 > root@site4-nas:~# ls -l /etc/network/interfaces > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 116 Mar 26 18:21 /etc/network/interfaces > > OK, so gateway is correct in 18:21 timestamped user config file. Lets reboot. > > root@site4-nas:~# reboot > root@site4-nas:~# Connection to site4-nas closed by remote host. > Connection to site4-nas closed. > root@site4-pve:~# ssh site4-nas > Linux site4-nas 6.5.11-8-pve #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC PMX 6.5.11-8 > (2024-01-30T12:27Z) x86_64... > Last login: Tue Mar 26 18:20:50 2024 from 192.168.2.28 > root@site4-nas:~# ls -l /etc/network/interfaces > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 117 Mar 26 18:23 /etc/network/interfaces > root@site4-nas:~# grep gateway /etc/network/interfaces > gateway 192.168.2.43 > > root@site4-nas:~# find /etc /lib/systemd/ /var/lib/ -type f -print0 | > xargs --null grep 192.168.2.43 > /etc/network/interfaces:gateway 192.168.2.43 > > user config file has updated timestamp and contains bougous gateway. > > Help please! >
debian12: something destroys /etc/network/interfaces at boot
Hi, I changed a gateway on a remote site using /etc/network/interfaces by changing gateway. However, at reboot some old gateway IP reappears. I really hate when some magic knows better than an explicitly set value. What happens here? How can I get rid of this? It is 100% reproducible. I have no clue where the wrong 2.43 comes from. Any hints appreciated! Steffen root@site4-nas:~# ls -l /etc/network/interfaces -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 117 Mar 26 18:19 /etc/network/interfaces root@site4-nas:~# grep gateway /etc/network/interfaces gateway 192.168.2.43 root@site4-nas:~# perl -npi -e 's/gateway 192.168.2.43/gateway 192.168.2.1/' /etc/network/interface s root@site4-nas:~# grep gateway /etc/network/interfaces gateway 192.168.2.1 root@site4-nas:~# ls -l /etc/network/interfaces -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 116 Mar 26 18:21 /etc/network/interfaces root@site4-nas:~# sync root@site4-nas:~# date; sleep 1m; date Tue Mar 26 06:21:47 PM CET 2024 Tue Mar 26 06:22:47 PM CET 2024 root@site4-nas:~# ls -l /etc/network/interfaces -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 116 Mar 26 18:21 /etc/network/interfaces OK, so gateway is correct in 18:21 timestamped user config file. Lets reboot. root@site4-nas:~# reboot root@site4-nas:~# Connection to site4-nas closed by remote host. Connection to site4-nas closed. root@site4-pve:~# ssh site4-nas Linux site4-nas 6.5.11-8-pve #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC PMX 6.5.11-8 (2024-01-30T12:27Z) x86_64... Last login: Tue Mar 26 18:20:50 2024 from 192.168.2.28 root@site4-nas:~# ls -l /etc/network/interfaces -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 117 Mar 26 18:23 /etc/network/interfaces root@site4-nas:~# grep gateway /etc/network/interfaces gateway 192.168.2.43 root@site4-nas:~# find /etc /lib/systemd/ /var/lib/ -type f -print0 | xargs --null grep 192.168.2.43 /etc/network/interfaces:gateway 192.168.2.43 user config file has updated timestamp and contains bougous gateway. Help please!
End this thread now, please. [WAS Re: Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
People, Please end the thread at this point. Thank you. As Andy Smith points out, I asked politely for this thread to cease a while ago because it would degenerate to more heat than light. I was wrong - it degenerated to futility. Please remember the FAQ: remember the Code of Conduct and the ways to keep this list useful. In a similar way to dealing with spam: stop replying when there's nothing constructive to add. If you think people are trolling, don't spend ages discussing it, necessarily, because that will encourage the thread to continue. Move to the next topic. Any and all of you may think that this is political correctness gone mad / censorship or whatever. Changing terminology is inevitable over time: making meanings clear (while at the same time avoiding being potentially offensive) is a useful purpose in itself. Nobody is forcing an attitude change on every individual in the Debian community but the continued ask is for people to be constructive in dealing with each other. That's my purpose in asking for this thread to stop - now. With every good wish Andrew Cater [For the Debian Community Team]
Re: Please terminate this faecal matter - the whole thread appears to be a troll.....Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 2:59 PM Bret Busby wrote: > > On 16/3/24 02:27, Van Snyder wrote: > > On Fri, 2024-03-15 at 11:09 -0700, Will Mengarini wrote: > >> Seriously, you humans have only another five billion Earth years until > >> your sun engulfs your home planet, and you're spending time on *THIS*?! > > > > At the rate that sea plants and creatures are removing CO2 from the > > atmosphere to combine it with calcium to make bones and armor, > > eventually eternal limestone, we have only about eighteen million years > > until Gaia commits suicide. Why should we continue to be complicit? > > > > Read Patrick Moore. The Positive Impact of Human CO2 Emissions on the > > Survival of Life on Earth. Frontier Science for Public Policy, June 2016. ++. That whole thread was fecal matter. Best to let it die... Jeff
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
Hi, On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 10:52:17PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > I think the discussion might usefully stop at this point before it > degenerates to more heat than light (as is the way of most discussions > eventually - call it an application of mailing list entropy :) ) Three weeks on and some have made essentially the same statements three times over by now. Thanks, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
Will Mengarini wrote: >> With no intention of ever creating a 100% offensive-free >> language, removing the worst offenders from the scene often >> is enough. > > Words I find offensive include "authority" and "manager", so > checking `apropos authori manager` I see we have a lot of > important work to do. You have a lot to do. If you consider those words the worst offenders. And intend to do something about it. > Seriously, you humans have only another five billion Earth > years until your sun engulfs your home planet, and you're > spending time on *THIS*?! Relax, people also build shelves and get dead drunk at their brothers' weddings. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Please terminate this faecal matter - the whole thread appears to be a troll.....Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
On 16/3/24 02:27, Van Snyder wrote: On Fri, 2024-03-15 at 11:09 -0700, Will Mengarini wrote: Seriously, you humans have only another five billion Earth years until your sun engulfs your home planet, and you're spending time on *THIS*?! At the rate that sea plants and creatures are removing CO2 from the atmosphere to combine it with calcium to make bones and armor, eventually eternal limestone, we have only about eighteen million years until Gaia commits suicide. Why should we continue to be complicit? Read Patrick Moore. The Positive Impact of Human CO2 Emissions on the Survival of Life on Earth. Frontier Science for Public Policy, June 2016. -- Bret Busby Armadale Western Australia (UTC+0800) .
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
On Fri, 2024-03-15 at 11:09 -0700, Will Mengarini wrote: > Seriously, you humans have only another five billion Earth years until > your sun engulfs your home planet, and you're spending time on *THIS*?! At the rate that sea plants and creatures are removing CO2 from the atmosphere to combine it with calcium to make bones and armor, eventually eternal limestone, we have only about eighteen million years until Gaia commits suicide. Why should we continue to be complicit? Read Patrick Moore. The Positive Impact of Human CO2 Emissions on the Survival of Life on Earth. Frontier Science for Public Policy, June 2016.
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
* Mariusz Gronczewski [24-02/23=Fr 10:33 +0100]: >>> It's entirely US political feel-good activism that >>> doesn't change anything but wastes people's time. Do >>> you actually think pressing on brake pedal oppresses >>> anybody? Because it also has master and slave cylinders. >>> >>> All it does is wastes tens of thousands of people's time >>> once they have to fix every script, tool and doc piece >>> related to it, for absolutely no benefit aside from making >>> some Twitter activist happy "they did something". It would >>> *literally* break every single script that [...] * Alain D D Williams [24-02/23=Fr 10:07 +]: >> It is "fixing" an issue for today's English speakers. Should >> we scour our systems looking for similar issues in other >> languages? Then in, say, 20 years time when different words >> will then be considered offensive, by some, do this all again? * Emanuel Berg [24-03/15=Fr 01:42 +0100]: > Remember, there are A LOT of words and expressions > we don't use anymore, and that's good, as > they are offensive and disrespectful. [...] > > [...] > > Maybe one should just focus on a few words and expressions that > are clearly offensive, and remove them from schools, universities, > public service TV, all official state-related communication, etc. > > With no intention of ever creating a 100% offensive-free language, > removing the worst offenders from the scene often is enough. Words I find offensive include "authority" and "manager", so checking `apropos authori manager` I see we have a lot of important work to do. We also need to do something about book titles like "Mastering $Foo". Seriously, you humans have only another five billion Earth years until your sun engulfs your home planet, and you're spending time on *THIS*?!
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
Mike Castle wrote: > Was that explicitly stated anywhere? Or is the lack of any > type of explicit "I'm willing to help drive this" statements > leading to that conclusion? Relax, everyone does something somewhere. But it would be a boring world if they were only allowed to talk about that. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
Alain D D Williams wrote: > That is the big difference. Not use words *currently* deemed > offensive in *new* publications (books, newspaper articles, > ...) - this is not hard to do. Indeed, and that is what you should focus on. The past is the past anyway. > What we are faced with is something very different: a call > to locate and modify use in programs that might have been > written a long time ago. The effort needed to do this is > large and will doubtless cause failures in systems that have > been working well for years. I must admit the whole concept of source code being offensive is a bit bizarre to me. For anyone to really change that it in a way that makes sense it must be a really offensive word and a general understanding that people reading and writing the code really reacts negatively to it. Because in my experience, people who do this kind of politics aren't typically programmers, even. But I may be wrong and from a technical perspective, it is possible to change source, obviously. > It is not just a matter of modifying Debian (+ RedHat + ...) > sources but the sources on private systems. I think it is a bad idea to go for a clean sweep. That either don't work or end up like the Khmer Rouge. It is enough to remove the most offensive words and expressions, whatever they are, from the most public platforms. > We seem to be told that this must be done by those who will > not be doing the work. Ah, it is okay for people to have opinions and voice them without doing stuff. But sometimes such people somehow get into positions of authority and, worst case scenario, force people who have been doing stuff for ages out of their projects. That's horrible but such instances should not be blamed on the general "opinions but no work" personality, who is actually quite harmless. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 09:01:30AM -0700, Mike Castle wrote: > On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 1:49 AM Alain D D Williams wrote: > > We seem to be told that this must be done by those who will not be doing the > > work. > > Was that explicitly stated anywhere? Or is the lack of any type of > explicit "I'm willing to help drive this" statements leading to that > conclusion? My humble take: just a troll in search of food. Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 1:49 AM Alain D D Williams wrote: > We seem to be told that this must be done by those who will not be doing the > work. Was that explicitly stated anywhere? Or is the lack of any type of explicit "I'm willing to help drive this" statements leading to that conclusion? mrc
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 01:42:25AM +0100, Emanuel Berg wrote: > Mike Castle wrote: > > >> It is "fixing" an issue for today's English speakers. > >> Should we scour our systems looking for similar issues in > >> other languages? Then in, say, 20 years time when different > >> words will then be considered offensive, by some, do this > >> all again? > > > > Yes. > > Remember, there are A LOT of words and expressions we don't > use anymore, and that's good, as they are offensive and > disrespectful. But once they were perfectly normal. Still, one > by one, they have disappeared from active use. That is the big difference. Not use words *currently* deemed offensive in *new* publications (books, newspaper articles, ...) - this is not hard to do. What we are faced with is something very different: a call to locate and modify use in programs that might have been written a long time ago. The effort needed to do this is large and will doubtless cause failures in systems that have been working well for years. It is not just a matter of modifying Debian (+ RedHat + ...) sources but the sources on private systems. We seem to be told that this must be done by those who will not be doing the work. -- Alain Williams Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT Lecturer. +44 (0) 787 668 0256 https://www.phcomp.co.uk/ Parliament Hill Computers. Registration Information: https://www.phcomp.co.uk/Contact.html #include
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
Mike Castle wrote: >> It is "fixing" an issue for today's English speakers. >> Should we scour our systems looking for similar issues in >> other languages? Then in, say, 20 years time when different >> words will then be considered offensive, by some, do this >> all again? > > Yes. Remember, there are A LOT of words and expressions we don't use anymore, and that's good, as they are offensive and disrespectful. But once they were perfectly normal. Still, one by one, they have disappeared from active use. What's to say we are right now, just because _we_ happen to live right now, suddenly done with that process? If it had to be done in the past, why not right now - and in the future as well? Now how to actually do it is another thing. Maybe one should just focus on a few words and expressions that are clearly offensive, and remove them from schools, universities, public service TV, all official state-related communication, etc. With no intention of ever creating a 100% offensive-free language, removing the worst offenders from the scene often is enough. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
On Fri, Feb 23, 2024 at 2:07 AM Alain D D Williams wrote: > It is "fixing" an issue for today's English speakers. Should we scour our > systems looking for similar issues in other languages ? Then in, say, 20 years > time when different words will then be considered offensive, by some, do this > all again ? Yes.
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
Alain D D Williams wrote: > However that is not the way that the world works, or prolly > more accurately how some people think. They see > a word/phrase that they have decided that they "own" or > somehow relates to them [...] I am not black so I have no idea how black people consider everything negative in language that is black. If indeed most of them have no strong feelings about it it may be a waste of time trying to change such expressions. If they do care about it one could try to reduce such use from formal and official language, especially when it really hasn't anything to do with the color black - like blacklist into blocklist, and other such examples. Maybe in fantasy novels one would still be allowed to have evil wizards all dressed in black, doing powerful incantations of black magic? -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal
Docker Bridge network hangs all network
I'm running Debian 12.5 on a Dell Optiplex 990 with UEFI and a fast NVMe drive with 16Gb RAM. I've installed the latest Docker version 25. I have the exact same installation on a basic SATA spinning disk on the same machine as well. By default, Docker uses the Bridge network when running containers. I'm trying to build a Jekyll site using Docker, which fetches many Gem files from rubygems.org. My "docker run" command runs successfully for a short period of time, but then can no longer make network connections out. Also, my entire desktop's network capabilities are halted (i.e. browser, apt, etc.). When the container dies eventually, all network is restored on the machine. This is on my NVMe drive. If I specify the "--network host" option, it succeeds. With the SATA drive installation, this all succeeds as expected. The only difference between the two installations is that the 8021q module (VLAN) is loaded by default in my NVMe install that might be getting in the way but I can't disable it. I tested this with the latest Ubuntu and it works fine on that same NVMe disk. Any thoughts on this? I use Docker very regularly. Thank you, community!
Cease and desist, please [WAS Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP]
[Also copied to commun...@debian.org] t's time to kill this thread - nothing useful is being said at this point. At its best, this list is useful for helping people and for providing information. It's also a window on the world of Debian and how Debian contributors, regulars on the list (and the odd single poster) contribute to the wider perception of Debian and what we collectively do. Help uphold a good reputation for all of us. Help maintain the usefulness of this list by knowing when to stop hitting the Enter key and when to put the keyboard down (and go and do something else for a few minutes) rather than continuing to reply to a mailing list thread. No-one has to contribute to every contentious point and there is consideration in knowing when to stop and avoid more effort to make your own opinions heard. Please also consider the Debian Code of Conduct and the requirement to be constructive or face sanctions. With thanks for your consideration in this. Andrew Cater (amaca...@debian.org) For the Debian Community Team
Re: Postel's Law (Was Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP)
Dnia 2024-02-25, o godz. 11:22:50 Alain D D Williams napisał(a): > On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 07:44:44PM -0500, Jeffrey Walton wrote: > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 7:37 PM Andy Smith > > wrote: > > > > > > [...] > > > Turning back more to protocol design, we have spent decades > > > walking back Postel's Law as we find more and more ways that > > > being liberal in what our software accepts is untenable in the > > > face of a hostile Internet. > > > > ++. Postel's Law is a disaster nowadays. It was fine back in the > > 1980's, but it is dangerous in the toxic environments of today. > > > > Here's what we teach our developers: Look for any reason you can to > > reject the data. If you can't find a reason, then begrudgingly > > perform the processing or transformation. > > There is a difference between not doing validation (eg a field being > numeric) and flexibility (eg a line length being 100 bytes which is > more than the specified 80 bytes). This is what Postel is talking > about. ...and how you would even handle it ? The DB field is 80 characters, do you want to just truncate it ? Or oversize the DB? what if DB field have that 100 bytes but someone sends 101? If the numeric field can be hex,dec,oct number or a string representing one of those (octal representation in particular is satan that claimed bugs in many projects), together with locale-specific dots dashes and commas separating thousands, that's plenty of code that can go wrong vs "okay this number is in range, job done" Yes of course there is a diffence between validation and flexibility but flexibility of protocol should only extend to backward compability, where it doesn't cost you too much, and not indefinitely. Not to be flexible just so someone can half-ass the implementation and still have it "work" because other servers cover up for the errors with being "flexible". There is a case for leeway in user-facing stuff - nobody wants to hunt for trailing whitespace in their forms just because they dared to copy-paste - but protocols had way too much leeway *because* most implementations ignored the second part, "be conservative in what you do" and frankly sent fucked up stuff that your implementation still needed to work with if it was a common open protocol. e-mail being particular example, oh the hundreds of problems with "our" mail servers that could be summed up by "your implementation pisses on RFC and that's why our mail server doesn't get your mail"... -- Mariusz Gronczewski (XANi) GnuPG: 0xEA8ACE64 https://devrandom.eu
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
Dnia 2024-02-25, o godz. 07:29:32 napisał(a): > On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 06:05:26PM -0500, Karen Lewellen wrote: > > May I interject a different perspective? > > what brings greater freedom, asking that words be changed by many, > > that some see, no matter how justified from their view as harmful? > > Or teaching those people how to free themselves from being > > controlled by those words? > > Not using the words doesn't remove the injustice. I'm not that naïve. > It's just a question of politeness. > > As an example: I left the Christian religion long time ago. If I > visit a church (to admire its architecture, for example), I behave > with a modicum of respect and restrain myself of farting aloud. If I > visit a mosque (I'm not a Muslim) I take off my shoes. Great point! I do that too, nor would I flaunt my (non)-religious beliefs to religious people without being asked. Now did you know that by you not being a Muslim your entire existence offends that religion ? So, will you remove or convert yourself, or will you deem that demand to be unreasonable ? I'm gonna assume the latter. So would you acquiesce that shunning certain words (nigger,faggot etc.) that are used 99% as an insults is reasonable, while leaving ones that have multiple uses (master, slave, git, gimp) and not being used in modern speech as insults untouched is a reasonable approach ? -- Mariusz Gronczewski (XANi) GnuPG: 0xEA8ACE64 https://devrandom.eu
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
Dnia 2024-02-25, o godz. 00:27:41 Marco Moock napisał(a): > Am Sat, 24 Feb 2024 14:42:39 +0100 > schrieb Emanuel Berg : > > > I think the reason is black people shouldn't be associated > > with everything negative that is black in language. > > I can't understand why people draw that association. > Black as a color is different from the skin and different from illegal > activities on black markets. > If you decide that there is a problem first, then try to find "evidence" of it existing you will always find it. Even if "evidence" will be "someone somewhere in earth of billion people used the term in racist way once", the fact it normally is not used like that doesn't matter, a virtual offended minority in their head must've been offended by that so they by proxy are too and need to fight it. All so they can tell themselves that they "made a difference" and "made a world a better place", without doing anything actually meaningful, while typing on their device made by wage-slavery in some asian country. But we're supposed to believe them on their word that there is some theoretical group former slaves that somehow made career as Linux admin, had to set up bonding and pick the slave interfaces bonded to it and got PTSD in the process. And when you ask them which real people are exactly offended by it and how it is even supposed to help you get "guys let's not get political, just do exactly what I said you should do, I'm the expert here, you peons just abide by my wishes" or "I won't respond to argument because you must be racist, and by racist I define "doesn't agree with me"". I don't like religious proverbs but the road to hell is truly paved with good intentions. Also I am a member of minority group called West Slavs, which the term slave came from so I hereby grant the Linux kernel unlimited permission to use that term indefinitely (that was a joke, I don't think any group should have any power in defining stuff like that). -- Mariusz Gronczewski (XANi) GnuPG: 0xEA8ACE64 https://devrandom.eu
Re: Postel's Law (Was Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP)
On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 07:44:44PM -0500, Jeffrey Walton wrote: > On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 7:37 PM Andy Smith wrote: > > > > [...] > > Turning back more to protocol design, we have spent decades walking > > back Postel's Law as we find more and more ways that being liberal > > in what our software accepts is untenable in the face of a hostile > > Internet. > > ++. Postel's Law is a disaster nowadays. It was fine back in the > 1980's, but it is dangerous in the toxic environments of today. > > Here's what we teach our developers: Look for any reason you can to > reject the data. If you can't find a reason, then begrudgingly perform > the processing or transformation. There is a difference between not doing validation (eg a field being numeric) and flexibility (eg a line length being 100 bytes which is more than the specified 80 bytes). This is what Postel is talking about. Otherwise I completely agree: validate, validate, validate - if I accept your bad data then it becomes my problem, if I reject it then you have to fix it. Unfortunately people will complain if you do this "everyone accepts the data", to which I reply "please tell me exactly what it means" - which should shut them up. -- Alain Williams Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT Lecturer. +44 (0) 787 668 0256 https://www.phcomp.co.uk/ Parliament Hill Computers. Registration Information: https://www.phcomp.co.uk/Contact.html #include
Re: Postel's Law (Was Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP)
Dnia 2024-02-24, o godz. 19:44:44 Jeffrey Walton napisał(a): > On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 7:37 PM Andy Smith > wrote: > > > > [...] > > Turning back more to protocol design, we have spent decades walking > > back Postel's Law as we find more and more ways that being liberal > > in what our software accepts is untenable in the face of a hostile > > Internet. > > ++. Postel's Law is a disaster nowadays. It was fine back in the > 1980's, but it is dangerous in the toxic environments of today. > Postel's law works on user-interfaced data far better than protocols. > Here's what we teach our developers: Look for any reason you can to > reject the data. If you can't find a reason, then begrudgingly perform > the processing or transformation. On flip-side it's terrible idea to do that on user-entered data. Yes, security wise it's a great idea, but usability-wise it generates annoyances at every step. Like, if say user enters a data (say a token from mail 2FA) with extra spaces, the "accept only the perfectly good data" would prompt to tell them to sod off and try again", instead of just cutting the whitespaces out and checking the token. Similarly if the site requires bank account number most people don't type it, they copy it is not accepting the long string of numbers just because it had some whitespaces added for better presentation just annoys the users. And that pre-processing often (if it is a website) can be done client side so server code can keep its tight and secure processing without compromising. -- Mariusz Gronczewski (XANi) GnuPG: 0xEA8ACE64 https://devrandom.eu
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 10:22:09AM +0100, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > [...] > > I think I'm out of it. *Plonk* > -- > t For keeping that promise would it be better to use "Reply-To-List". And in other cases is it also better to use "Reply-To-List". Groeten Geert Stappers P.S. The better e-mail client has 3 reply buttons: - Reply - Reply-To-All - Reply-To-List -- Silence is hard to parse
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 06:30:35PM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On 2/25/24, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 09:14:44AM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > > > [...] > > > >> The "problem" is asking the majority (10s of thousands of people) to > >> make efforts to help 1 or 2 heal in their journey's of pain and > >> healing. > > > > To make sure the "majority" stays majority for all so ever: white, > > male, Western Europe or US, English speaking? > > Ha! Had to pull the race card now huh? Figured that's where the sjw > wokesters would go. When all else fails, cry "racism". [...] I think I'm out of it. *Plonk* -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
On 2/25/24, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 06:05:26PM -0500, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>> May I interject a different perspective?
>> what brings greater freedom, asking that words be changed by many, that
>> some
>> see, no matter how justified from their view as harmful? Or teaching
>> those
>> people how to free themselves from being controlled by those words?
>
> Not using the words doesn't remove the injustice.
Words do not create injustice. You are mistaken.
Broken and damaged individuals perceive injustice.
> I'm not that naïve. It's just a question of politeness.
Actually I wish you were not so naive as to actually believe the
dichomatic trollop you are holding to.
> As an example: I left the Christian religion long time ago. If I visit a
> church (to admire its architecture, for example), I behave with a modicum
> of respect and restrain myself of farting aloud. If I visit a mosque (I'm
> not a Muslim) I take off my shoes.
>
> Because I know there are people in there who might well be offended by some
> behaviour.
>
> It's that easy.
No it's not that easy. What you say here ("It's that easy") is simply not true.
Only in very limited and strictly controlled environments can you get
away with such superficiality. The West placades docility of mind.
This does not mean that a docile mind is worthy of any esteem.
>> Yes, your goals may be honorable to be sure, but in the end do not the
>> words
>> still win if the control remains?
>
> Removing the injustice is a much longer process, and it's important to
> put a lot of work in it. The above is just a friendly acknowledgement
> "yes, I see you". Just politeness. Not more.
No, you missed their point. Either intentionally (in which case you
would rightly be held as manipulative) or unintentionally (in which
case you could rightly be held as docile of mind).
> After all, I try to be polite to you too (I might fail at that, dunno).
"Look, at least I tried to be polite, so please ignore the fact I've
ignored what you said and allow my unspoken assumptions to prevail"
It is really, really dull at this stage.
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
On 2/25/24, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 09:14:44AM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > > [...] > >> The "problem" is asking the majority (10s of thousands of people) to >> make efforts to help 1 or 2 heal in their journey's of pain and >> healing. > > To make sure the "majority" stays majority for all so ever: white, > male, Western Europe or US, English speaking? Ha! Had to pull the race card now huh? Figured that's where the sjw wokesters would go. When all else fails, cry "racism". > For better or worse (IMO for better!) demography of our geek > communities is slowly changing. This brings about some friction. > I'm all for facilitating this process: this involves questioning > my preconceptions. > > As a scientist, I'm used to do that, anyway. A "scientist" you say. "Oh my, what powerful 'racist' arguments you have there. Oh well, you win then hey?" It's all black and white dichotomies from here. The racist "whites" vs the oppressed "blacks". Such science! Such awesome power!
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 06:05:26PM -0500, Karen Lewellen wrote: > May I interject a different perspective? > what brings greater freedom, asking that words be changed by many, that some > see, no matter how justified from their view as harmful? Or teaching those > people how to free themselves from being controlled by those words? Not using the words doesn't remove the injustice. I'm not that naïve. It's just a question of politeness. As an example: I left the Christian religion long time ago. If I visit a church (to admire its architecture, for example), I behave with a modicum of respect and restrain myself of farting aloud. If I visit a mosque (I'm not a Muslim) I take off my shoes. Because I know there are people in there who might well be offended by some behaviour. It's that easy. > Yes, your goals may be honorable to be sure, but in the end do not the words > still win if the control remains? Removing the injustice is a much longer process, and it's important to put a lot of work in it. The above is just a friendly acknowledgement "yes, I see you". Just politeness. Not more. After all, I try to be polite to you too (I might fail at that, dunno). Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 09:14:44AM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote: [...] > The "problem" is asking the majority (10s of thousands of people) to > make efforts to help 1 or 2 heal in their journey's of pain and > healing. To make sure the "majority" stays majority for all so ever: white, male, Western Europe or US, English speaking? For better or worse (IMO for better!) demography of our geek communities is slowly changing. This brings about some friction. I'm all for facilitating this process: this involves questioning my preconceptions. As a scientist, I'm used to do that, anyway. Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Q: Gnome network odd
Max Nikulin writes: > On 05/02/2024 12:08, Byunghee HWANG (황병희) wrote: >> On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 13:41 -0600, David Wright wrote: >>> So it would appear that your question is exactly as in the reference >>> you quoted, that ifupdown was configuring wlp4s0 when /w/n/i was >>> in place, resulting in NM displaying a question mark. >> Thank you for confirming that this is not a bug. > > I have no idea concerning GNOME in sid, but a KDE applet from > nm-plasma in bookworm is able to react to commands > > ip link set enp0s2 down > ip link set enp0s2 up > > in a VM when the only interface (besides lo) is managed by > ifupdown. When the interface is down, the icon changed to a dimmed one > with a red "x". > > I have not figured out how to determine state using nmcli or through > various objects reported by > > busctl tree org.freedesktop.NetworkManager > > E.g. nm-online always reports success. It might be some fallback in > the KDE applet. Depending on that it is either a bug or not in the > GNOME applet. > > P.S. > > nmcli dev > DEVICE TYPE STATE CONNECTION > lo loopback connected (externally) lo > enp0s2 ethernet unmanaged -- > > nmcli con > NAME UUID TYPE DEVICE > lo18c86315-d7f9-417e-ab2c-c131803b4c0b loopback lo > > nm-online ; echo $? > Connecting... 30s [online] > 0 > Hellow Max! Actuallu i have a weak technical background. So i don't know well your professional analyze. Just i use default values by automatic. Anyway i attach some screenshot more. As you see to me: soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:~$ ls -l /etc/network/ total 24 drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Feb 18 13:29 if-down.d drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan 8 19:45 if-post-down.d drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan 8 19:45 if-pre-up.d drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Feb 18 13:29 if-up.d drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jan 24 2023 interfaces.d -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 433 Oct 4 17:23 interfaces.orig soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:~$ lsb_release -a No LSB modules are available. Distributor ID: Debian Description:Debian GNU/Linux trixie/sid Release:n/a Codename: trixie soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:~$ nmcli dev DEVICE TYPE STATE CONNECTION wlp4s0 wifi connected V30_3982 lo loopback connected (externally) lo enp2s0 ethernet unavailable -- soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:~$ nmcli con NAMEUUID TYPE DEVICE V30_3982d5a7a052-5756-4ab9-85b5-a4576b5d4e4d wifi wlp4s0 lo 6b998a36-ea29-4d65-baab-d6d3a8ef loopback lo Wired connection 1 77a0f34e-c572-38c7-b28d-4f08a33be077 ethernet -- soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:~$ ping -c 3 google.com. PING google.com. (2404:6800:400a:804::200e) 56 data bytes 64 bytes from kix06s10-in-x0e.1e100.net (2404:6800:400a:804::200e): icmp_seq=1 ttl=51 time=211 ms 64 bytes from kix06s10-in-x0e.1e100.net (2404:6800:400a:804::200e): icmp_seq=2 ttl=51 time=121 ms 64 bytes from kix06s10-in-x0e.1e100.net (2404:6800:400a:804::200e): icmp_seq=3 ttl=51 time=255 ms --- google.com. ping statistics --- 3 packets transmitted, 3 received, 0% packet loss, time 2004ms rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 121.185/195.563/254.546/55.522 ms soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:~$ echo "I am using GNOME Debian (sid) Thank you Max ^^^" I am using GNOME Debian (sid) Thank you Max ^^^ soyeomul@thinkpad-e495:~$ date Sun Feb 25 01:47:11 PM KST 2024 V30_3982 is LG Smartphone (WiFi HotSpot), for the record. Sincerely, Byunghee from South Korea -- ^고맙습니다 _布德天下_ 감사합니다_^))// signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Q: Gnome network odd
On 05/02/2024 12:08, Byunghee HWANG (황병희) wrote: On Sun, 2024-02-04 at 13:41 -0600, David Wright wrote: So it would appear that your question is exactly as in the reference you quoted, that ifupdown was configuring wlp4s0 when /w/n/i was in place, resulting in NM displaying a question mark. Thank you for confirming that this is not a bug. I have no idea concerning GNOME in sid, but a KDE applet from nm-plasma in bookworm is able to react to commands ip link set enp0s2 down ip link set enp0s2 up in a VM when the only interface (besides lo) is managed by ifupdown. When the interface is down, the icon changed to a dimmed one with a red "x". I have not figured out how to determine state using nmcli or through various objects reported by busctl tree org.freedesktop.NetworkManager E.g. nm-online always reports success. It might be some fallback in the KDE applet. Depending on that it is either a bug or not in the GNOME applet. P.S. nmcli dev DEVICE TYPE STATE CONNECTION lo loopback connected (externally) lo enp0s2 ethernet unmanaged -- nmcli con NAME UUID TYPE DEVICE lo18c86315-d7f9-417e-ab2c-c131803b4c0b loopback lo nm-online ; echo $? Connecting... 30s [online] 0
Re: Postel's Law (Was Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP)
On Sat, Feb 24, 2024, 6:37 PM Andy Smith wrote: > Hi, > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 04:54:12PM +, Alain D D Williams wrote: > > I sometimes think that something similar to Postel's Law but applied to > human > > interactions would be useful. However that is wishful thinking > > > I'm not saying DON'T give people the benefit of the doubt, but just > always be aware that when you do there will be people who take > advantage of that. > > Turning back more to protocol design, we have spent decades walking > back Postel's Law as we find more and more ways that being liberal > in what our software accepts is untenable in the face of a hostile > Internet. > Quoting Paul Vixie 30 years ago at the Usenix technical conference (author of various RFCs: DHCP, NNTP): "Its important to remember that the internet escaped from the lab long before we could put it into anything like production form. It's equally important that our masters do not learn that". Thanks, > Andy > > -- > https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting > >
Re: Postel's Law (Was Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP)
On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 7:37 PM Andy Smith wrote: > > [...] > Turning back more to protocol design, we have spent decades walking > back Postel's Law as we find more and more ways that being liberal > in what our software accepts is untenable in the face of a hostile > Internet. ++. Postel's Law is a disaster nowadays. It was fine back in the 1980's, but it is dangerous in the toxic environments of today. Here's what we teach our developers: Look for any reason you can to reject the data. If you can't find a reason, then begrudgingly perform the processing or transformation. Jeff
Re: debian installer network console
Hi Andy! On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 5:58 PM Andy Smith wrote: > HI Matt, > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 05:40:31PM -0600, Matt Zagrabelny wrote: > > Does anyone know how to switch to a different virtual console (tty) over > a > > network console on a debian install? > > I haven't tested this but when doing an install over serial console, > the installer runs in GNU Screen so it is possible to switch to the > different terminal by the usual Screen key combinations, e.g. ctrl-a > then space. This was not obvious to me for many years. > > Perhaps it is the same on the network console? > Indeed it is! Thanks for the hint! I've been wondering about it for years. :) Cheers! -m
Re: debian installer network console
HI Matt, On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 05:40:31PM -0600, Matt Zagrabelny wrote: > Does anyone know how to switch to a different virtual console (tty) over a > network console on a debian install? I haven't tested this but when doing an install over serial console, the installer runs in GNU Screen so it is possible to switch to the different terminal by the usual Screen key combinations, e.g. ctrl-a then space. This was not obvious to me for many years. Perhaps it is the same on the network console? Thanks, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
debian installer network console
Greetings, I use the network-console for the debian installer - it's great. There are times when I would like to use the console (tty - Ctrl + Alt + F2) to perform some ad-hoc sysadmin'ing during the install. Does anyone know how to switch to a different virtual console (tty) over a network console on a debian install? Thanks for any help! -m
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
On 2/25/24, Marco Moock wrote: > Am Sat, 24 Feb 2024 14:42:39 +0100 > schrieb Emanuel Berg : > >> I think the reason is black people shouldn't be associated >> with everything negative that is black in language. > > I can't understand why people draw that association. > Black as a color is different from the skin and different from illegal > activities on black markets. Absolutely. Those who are engaging in the superficial side of cultural manipulation, superficial "social warriors" when they fail to demonstrate empathy to all sides, all people, have been consciously or unconsciously exploited, or are active consciously, in this type of linguistic and cultural manipulation. https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/culture-2018-0023/html?lang=en This process of societal manipulation, under the guise and pretence of "social justice" has been underway with intention for decades, and there is a sort of penultimate fruition of this intention which we now see manifesting in all online communities as well as in the real world. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00131857.2021.1926982 There are two sides, in fact many sides and viewpoints which can be considered valid, and from the point of view of some, "Cultural Marxism" does not even exist and is simply a "far right" meme or even an "anti semitic conspiracy theory". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory Sun Tzu's The Art of War may be a useful foundation for comprehending the tactics underlying some of the things we read on Wikipedia and elsewhere... intention is witnessed ultimately in the effects of the action, not in what is said. The mind is the great trickster. Evil thrives only in darkness as wile thrives in convoluted linguistic tactics. Be not deceived and bring as much light as possible, that ALL sides may be heard and beheld for their truth, both exposit and clandestine. For those who got this far, a gem to possibly assist you in unpacking that which you may have not witnessed before: https://ijcrsee.com/index.php/ijcrsee/article/view/13/570 "... A lie and manipulation are opposed to different types of truth: a lie stands up against “semantic truth”; manipulation opposes “pragmatic truth”. Manipulation is realized when the listener cannot see the speaker’s covered intentions behind what is actually being said. As one of the key parameters of manipulative utterance is specific intentionality, in order to discriminate manipulation, one has to analyze such parameters as aim of verbal communication, communicative intention, reason, and motive. Manipulation is pragmatic aspect that achieves its goals without evident detection of communicative intention: the speaker wittingly chooses such form of utterance that lacks direct signals of his intentional condition..."
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
Am Sat, 24 Feb 2024 14:42:39 +0100 schrieb Emanuel Berg : > I think the reason is black people shouldn't be associated > with everything negative that is black in language. I can't understand why people draw that association. Black as a color is different from the skin and different from illegal activities on black markets.
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
May I interject a different perspective? what brings greater freedom, asking that words be changed by many, that some see, no matter how justified from their view as harmful? Or teaching those people how to free themselves from being controlled by those words? Yes, your goals may be honorable to be sure, but in the end do not the words still win if the control remains? Just a thought, Karen On Sun, 25 Feb 2024, Zenaan Harkness wrote: On 2/23/24, Arno Lehmann wrote: On 23.02.24 at 10:33, Mariusz Gronczewski wrote: On 22.02.2024 11:19, Ralph Aichinger wrote: Hello! I know this is a loaded topic... ... There is no good reason *why*. It's entirely US political feel-good activism Statement one above proven. Missing the wood for the trees. Acknowledging that part of your interlocutor's statement which does have substance, is a more useful foundation for actual communication. Your response to Ralph might be witty, but it is without empathy. All it does is wastes tens of thousands of people's time once the have to fix If there's a single person in the world who feels existing terminology to hurt them, I consider my usage of such terms. You are free to do all such consideration you feel appropriate. You have failed to name the objection, which afaict is the asking of "tens of thousands" of people in our community to spend their precious Soul attention on the real psychological and emotional needs of a handful of damaged individuals in genuine need of healing. If it makes one person feel better, I think I did something good. Your good intentions are applauded. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, at least when you put your imposition on others to "you must act with the good intentions which I do". If it makes others feel worse, I have to balance arguments. Arguments such as "it was always thus" or "it's too much effort" are not strong ones. If someone is genuinely in need of healing, then the Debian mailing lists is not an appropriate place for professional help. If someone is not in need of professional help and genuine healing, the demand that the community put the attention of thousands (or in fact 10s of thousands or more) on the delicate emotions of a tiny number of vocal individuals, is an abhorrent demand, virtually be definition. As it happens, I prefer being called "woke" above being rude. It is good that you have personally found a way to feel good about your activism. You are applauded, certainly by those who are aware of the benefit you may have brought to their delicate and fragile emotions. And I say that with no sarcasm at all. It is good that people in this world care about one another. I have no objection that whatsoever, and in fact when one is lifted a little, I hold that this lifting has a subtle benefit for us all. Oh, and tech and culture can not be separated, but that's probably also a loaded topic. Every loaded topic, can be unloaded. Unloading a loaded topic simply requires sufficient linguistic capacity. Keep at your efforts and you should find success in this regard. I consider such pursuit a useful endeavor.
I think we can't disappear ifenslave documentation just yet (Was Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP)
Hello, On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 10:52:17PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: > If anyone wants to remove the references to ifenslave and > substitute others, that's entirely fine. I really don't think in this specific case it would be a good idea to remove all mention of ifenslave because: - The current Ethernet bonding support in ifupdown requires ifenslave. If you don't install ifenslave, you can't set up a bond interface from /etc/network/interfaces except by avoiding the actual syntax there for that purpose and doing it with direct commands executed by *-up/down hooks. - Even if it was possible, vast majority of people using bonded Ethernets have it done with ifenslave, so it needs at least a mention in order that people can understand what they already have. - ifenslave is a tiny part of the issue. It's fundamental to the bonding driver and same terminology will be seen in its configuration and in its status output in /proc/net/bonding, e.g: $ cat /proc/net/bonding/bond0 Ethernet Channel Bonding Driver: v5.10.0-0.deb10.16-amd64 Bonding Mode: fault-tolerance (active-backup) Primary Slave: None Currently Active Slave: eth1 MII Status: up MII Polling Interval (ms): 100 Up Delay (ms): 0 Down Delay (ms): 0 Peer Notification Delay (ms): 0 Slave Interface: eth0 MII Status: up Speed: 1000 Mbps Duplex: full Link Failure Count: 1 Permanent HW addr: 00:25:90:5c:f7:ea Slave queue ID: 0 Slave Interface: eth1 MII Status: up Speed: 1000 Mbps Duplex: full Link Failure Count: 1 Permanent HW addr: 00:25:90:5c:f7:eb Slave queue ID: 0 As I've already mentioned though, if anyone finds time to investigate the teaming driver then it would be really nice to see a wiki article on that and perhaps a link to that from the existing one on bonded Ethernets. So in summary, I don't think ifenslave can actually be purged from history, but some useful steps could possibly be taken towards its deprecation - first involving actually documenting the new thing. Thanks, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
[On list: copied to commun...@debian.org] Hi people, As you might have expected: this subject is drifting off-topic and becoming a little more personal. In answer to the first question: there's a reference to a wiki page. It's a wiki page: it can be edited by (almost) anyone. If anyone wants to remove the references to ifenslave and substitute others, that's entirely fine. As regards personal back and forth argument: can I remind _everyone_ on the list, without exception, of the need to stay within the Debian Code of Conduct (and the mailing list Code of Conduct). Please try to be considerate, helpful and ,above all, constructive. It makes a difference when it comes to dealing with anything remotely contentious. I think the discussion might usefully stop at this point before it degenerates to more heat than light (as is the way of most discussions eventually - call it an application of mailing list entropy :) ) With thanks for your consideration - and with every good wish, as ever, Andy Cater [For the Community Team]
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
Hi, On Sun, Feb 25, 2024 at 09:17:15AM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > On 2/24/24, Andy Smith wrote: > > On Sat, Feb 24, 2024 at 01:35:14PM +1100, Zenaan Harkness wrote: > >> I wrote: > >> > You seem by now to have ignored multiple messages where it was made > >> > clear that the work was already done. > >> > >> Assuming we care about the most rapid healing possible for those who > >> are actually triggered by certain words in one or another language, > >> there is a valid position to consider that is to increase, not > >> decrease, exposure to and therefore the broader usage of, triggering > >> words. > >> > >> If we care about healing wounds, we ought not remove the catalysts to > >> that healing. > > > > I did wonder how long it would take for someone to go from, "it's > > terrible that you activists are MAKING someone do this POINTLESS > > non-technical work!" to "no one should use this thing someone did in > > their own free time because it's bad, actually, for non-technical > > reasons!" > > Except "no one should use this thing someone did in their own free > time because it's bad, actually, for non-technical reasons!" is not > what I said. Oh, okay. So what is it exactly about what the developers of the teaming driver have done with regard to not using so-called "non-inclusive terminology" that you consider to have been a mistake? I thought that was the exact topic of conversation here, and the above was you saying that it shouldn't be removed but should in fact be left there as some sort of "shock treatment" but apparently I have misunderstood you. Thanks, Andy -- https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting
Re: Inclusive terminology (instead of master/slave) for network bonding/LACP
On 2/23/24, Arno Lehmann wrote: > On 23.02.24 at 10:33, Mariusz Gronczewski wrote: >> On 22.02.2024 11:19, Ralph Aichinger wrote: >>> Hello! >>> >>> I know this is a loaded topic... > ... >> There is no good reason *why*. It's entirely US political feel-good >> activism > > Statement one above proven. Missing the wood for the trees. Acknowledging that part of your interlocutor's statement which does have substance, is a more useful foundation for actual communication. Your response to Ralph might be witty, but it is without empathy. >> All it does is wastes tens of thousands of people's time once the have >> to fix > > If there's a single person in the world who feels existing terminology > to hurt them, I consider my usage of such terms. You are free to do all such consideration you feel appropriate. You have failed to name the objection, which afaict is the asking of "tens of thousands" of people in our community to spend their precious Soul attention on the real psychological and emotional needs of a handful of damaged individuals in genuine need of healing. > If it makes one person feel better, I think I did something good. Your good intentions are applauded. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, at least when you put your imposition on others to "you must act with the good intentions which I do". > If it makes others feel worse, I have to balance arguments. Arguments > such as "it was always thus" or "it's too much effort" are not strong ones. If someone is genuinely in need of healing, then the Debian mailing lists is not an appropriate place for professional help. If someone is not in need of professional help and genuine healing, the demand that the community put the attention of thousands (or in fact 10s of thousands or more) on the delicate emotions of a tiny number of vocal individuals, is an abhorrent demand, virtually be definition. > As it happens, I prefer being called "woke" above being rude. It is good that you have personally found a way to feel good about your activism. You are applauded, certainly by those who are aware of the benefit you may have brought to their delicate and fragile emotions. And I say that with no sarcasm at all. It is good that people in this world care about one another. I have no objection that whatsoever, and in fact when one is lifted a little, I hold that this lifting has a subtle benefit for us all. > Oh, and tech and culture can not be separated, but that's probably also > a loaded topic. Every loaded topic, can be unloaded. Unloading a loaded topic simply requires sufficient linguistic capacity. Keep at your efforts and you should find success in this regard. I consider such pursuit a useful endeavor.
