Re: NEWBIE question Re: static or dynamic /dev
Joe Pfeiffer wrote: Richard Owlett rowl...@cloud85.net writes: Roger Leigh wrote: On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 05:42:32AM -0700, sting wing wrote: Question: how does a person know if their /dev is a static or dynamic /dev % findmnt /dev TARGET SOURCE FSTYPE OPTIONS /dev devtmpfs devtmpfs rw,size=249844k,nr_inodes=62461,mode=755 Unless you have taken very special steps to avoid it, you will always have a dynamic /dev. This has been the case for many many years now. udev uses a tmpfs mounted on /dev (and more recently a devtmpfs mounted on /dev). If there's nothing mounted on /dev, then you will have a static /dev. However, if using Linux, the chances of having a static /dev on a contemporary system are vanishingly small--you'd have to intentionally alter the boot scripts to avoid a dynamic /dev. What does it mean when /dev is said to be static? dynamic? What should I be reading about? Many years ago, /dev was a directory containing entries called special files (which essentially meant mappings from filenames to device drivers). It was the responsibility of the system administrator to make sure that any time a device was added, a corresponding special file was added to /dev. In such a system, /dev is static. In a modern system, /dev doesn't physically exist on disk at all: it's a special kind of filesystem that lives only in the memory of the computer, called a tmpfs (temporary filesystem). Daemons detect what hardware is available, and automatically create the right special files in this filesystem. This is a dynamic /dev. Thank you Joe and Kevin. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/515ff6f8.5080...@cloud85.net
Re: NEWBIE question Re: static or dynamic /dev
What does it mean when /dev is said to be static? dynamic? What should I be reading about? On Linux, static tends to be used on embedded systems for speed and sanity when you know about all the hardware that will be connected and don't want anything interfering. OpenBSD has a Makedev script which builds the nodes. With dynamic the device nodes are created as needed rather than being pre-prepared. The fact the filesystem is dynamically sized in ram too is irrelevent really and simply makes it easier to have a read only root filesystem. -- ___ 'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a universal interface' (Doug McIlroy) ___ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/831428.92679...@smtp124.mail.ird.yahoo.com
Re: NEWBIE question Re: static or dynamic /dev
Richard Owlett rowl...@cloud85.net writes: Roger Leigh wrote: On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 05:42:32AM -0700, sting wing wrote: Question: how does a person know if their /dev is a static or dynamic /dev % findmnt /dev TARGET SOURCE FSTYPE OPTIONS /dev devtmpfs devtmpfs rw,size=249844k,nr_inodes=62461,mode=755 Unless you have taken very special steps to avoid it, you will always have a dynamic /dev. This has been the case for many many years now. udev uses a tmpfs mounted on /dev (and more recently a devtmpfs mounted on /dev). If there's nothing mounted on /dev, then you will have a static /dev. However, if using Linux, the chances of having a static /dev on a contemporary system are vanishingly small--you'd have to intentionally alter the boot scripts to avoid a dynamic /dev. What does it mean when /dev is said to be static? dynamic? What should I be reading about? Many years ago, /dev was a directory containing entries called special files (which essentially meant mappings from filenames to device drivers). It was the responsibility of the system administrator to make sure that any time a device was added, a corresponding special file was added to /dev. In such a system, /dev is static. In a modern system, /dev doesn't physically exist on disk at all: it's a special kind of filesystem that lives only in the memory of the computer, called a tmpfs (temporary filesystem). Daemons detect what hardware is available, and automatically create the right special files in this filesystem. This is a dynamic /dev. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1bvc80ty8b@snowball.wb.pfeifferfamily.net
Re: newbie question on port forwarding(and ssh, netcat)
2012/10/11 houkensjtu houkens...@gmail.com Thanks Joe, Brian, Murphy As I post above, I forgot to say all these experiments were done in my home on my laptop... Now I am in my office and re-do all this experiment. To be short, now all experiment which is done with ip address works well, while if I do ssh USER@DEBIAN, it will say: ssh: Could not resolve hostname debian: Name or service not known I am wondering, who(or what device,server) will resolve the hostname? Is it possible to resolve my laptop's name from my office?? 2012年10月11日木曜日 1時00分03秒 UTC+9 houkensjtu: Hi debianer! I am a newbie both of debian and networking... Recently I am trying to connect my home laptop(I have a router in my home) from office. I read several articles on port forwarding. And I succeeded in opening an 22 port on my router, also I started ssh server on my home laptop. (suppose my username at home is USER, and my laptop is called DEBIAN) I did several experiment and I got confusing in some of its result. 1. ssh USER@DEBIAN works well!! 2. nc -vz my_home_external_ip 22 [my_home_external_ip] 22 (ssh) : Connection refused I cant understand why is it. Because I have actually succeeded in test 1! 3. ssh -l USER my_home_external_ip ssh: connect to host my_home_external_ip port 22: Connection refused This also doesnt work! I thought it should be equivalent to test 1, but things just dont work. Any one can explain this? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/95c24d80-4052-429d-8658-cf3f447ff...@googlegroups.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/84255302-35f8-4009-9f05-af25a076d...@googlegroups.com Hello. You can use such services as no-ip.com or dyndns.org to create a DNS A-record for your home external IP-address. This DNS record will be resolved everywhere. Also you can modify the 'hosts' file on your work computer (/etc/hosts in Linux and c:\windows]system32\drivers\etc\hosts in windows) and put the name of your home computer there. With second approach you'll be able to resolve the name on your work computer only. -- Best regards, Valery Mamonov.
Re: newbie question on port forwarding(and ssh, netcat)
http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html A bit of searching the net on port-forwarding oughta give you the answer. You probably forgot to forward port 22 on the router to whichever ip adress your DEBIAN has. Search around for stuff on your router/ISP combo as they're almost always blocked in one way or another. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cadqa9ubjdccjznaufw_va9shij1xfc4kuctc_hn3jkfl8d8...@mail.gmail.com
Re: newbie question on port forwarding(and ssh, netcat)
On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 08:35:13 -0700 (PDT) houkensjtu houkens...@gmail.com wrote: Hi debianer! I am a newbie both of debian and networking... Recently I am trying to connect my home laptop(I have a router in my home) from office. I read several articles on port forwarding. And I succeeded in opening an 22 port on my router, also I started ssh server on my home laptop. (suppose my username at home is USER, and my laptop is called DEBIAN) I did several experiment and I got confusing in some of its result. 1. ssh USER@DEBIAN works well!! 2. nc -vz my_home_external_ip 22 [my_home_external_ip] 22 (ssh) : Connection refused I cant understand why is it. Because I have actually succeeded in test 1! 3. ssh -l USER my_home_external_ip ssh: connect to host my_home_external_ip port 22: Connection refused This also doesnt work! I thought it should be equivalent to test 1, but things just dont work. Any one can explain this? Not yet. Many commercial networks operate firewalls affecting the connections leaving the network so as yet you don't know which end of the connection has an issue. Divide the problem into two parts: the simplest way to check port forwarding is to use an external website from home, that way you can change things without travelling from your office, and you know the other end will have no firewall problems. A simple and slightly alarming but fairly reliable site is http://grc.com. Click on Shields Up!!, scroll down over halfway and click the heading Shields Up!, then Proceed, and Continue, then Common Ports (you can enter 22 manually, but the Common Ports is a quick test and just one click is needed). You're looking for 22 shown as Open, and probably all others as Stealth. Ignore all the dire warnings, this is a site for Windows users and they need to be scared. If 22 is not shown as Open, then you either haven't got the forwarding right, or sshd isn't running as you expect. If the router looks right, from your laptop try ssh IP address of laptop. This isn't the same as ssh localhost, as the ssh server treats different interfaces separately. If all is well at this end, but there is still a problem from your office, then you need to ask about outgoing firewalling there. However you resolve the initial problem, the ssh server is very heavily targeted by the bad guys, using password checking bots. A quick and dirty security measure is to forward a non-standard high numbered external TCP port to laptop:22 (nearly all routers should be able to do that) or to forward it to the same port of the laptop, and reconfigure the ssh server to listen on that port (the Port xxx line(s) in /etc/sshd_config). Remember to restart the ssh server if you need to do this. Six people will now leap in and say that's not going to improve security, all the bad guys have to do is run a portscan to find your server. However, scanning 65,000 ports of the same IP address across the Internet is no small undertaking, and will certainly attract attention, and I've never yet seen a bot attempt it. I don't get *any* connection attempts to my ssh port, while 22 gets 10-100 a day. The long-term solution is to disable passwords and use public-private key pairs for authentication, which is not really difficult, but is not for a complete beginner, and can certainly not be tried until you have the system working reliably on passwords. A quick Google for ssh public key tutorial turns up a vast number of sites to help with this. If you need to work from Windows, by the way, the puTTY program is pretty much the industry standard. There is also a Portable Apps version of it, which does not write anything to the Windows machine. -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121010194427.02ca4...@jretrading.com
Re: newbie question on port forwarding(and ssh, netcat)
On Wed 10 Oct 2012 at 08:35:13 -0700, houkensjtu wrote: I am a newbie both of debian and networking... Recently I am trying to connect my home laptop(I have a router in my home) from office. I read several articles on port forwarding. And I succeeded in opening an 22 port on my router, also I started ssh server on my home laptop. (suppose my username at home is USER, and my laptop is called DEBIAN) I did several experiment and I got confusing in some of its result. 1. ssh USER@DEBIAN works well!! We assume this means you were able to log in with your password, so it very much looks like you have set up port forwarding to the home machine correctly. Would you please say how your office machine resolves the IP number for DEBIAN. 2. nc -vz my_home_external_ip 22 [my_home_external_ip] 22 (ssh) : Connection refused I cant understand why is it. Because I have actually succeeded in test 1! What do get with ssh USER@my_home_external_ip ? 3. ssh -l USER my_home_external_ip ssh: connect to host my_home_external_ip port 22: Connection refused This also doesnt work! I thought it should be equivalent to test 1, but things just dont work. 'Connection refused' would indicate there is a route to the host but there is no daemon running on port 22. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121010225534.GJ30872@desktop
Re: newbie question on port forwarding(and ssh, netcat)
On Wed 10 Oct 2012 at 19:44:27 +0100, Joe wrote: [Some good advice snipped] However you resolve the initial problem, the ssh server is very heavily targeted by the bad guys, using password checking bots. A quick and dirty security measure is to forward a non-standard high numbered external TCP port to laptop:22 (nearly all routers should be able to do that) or to forward it to the same port of the laptop, and reconfigure the ssh server to listen on that port (the Port xxx line(s) in /etc/sshd_config). Remember to restart the ssh server if you need to do this. Six people will now leap in and say that's not going to improve security, all the bad guys have to do is run a portscan to find your server. However, scanning 65,000 ports of the same IP address across the Internet is no small undertaking, and will certainly attract attention, and I've never yet seen a bot attempt it. I don't get *any* connection attempts to my ssh port, while 22 gets 10-100 a day. What you say about putting sshd of a port other than 22 is undoubtfully correct. It gives peace of mind, a sense of combating the baddies, less cruft in the logs and a reason to proselytise. What it doesn't give is a more secure sshd. Not a single iota of security is gained with the technique you advocate. Five to go. The long-term solution is to disable passwords and use public-private key pairs for authentication, which is not really difficult, but is not for a complete beginner, and can certainly not be tried until you have the system working reliably on passwords. A quick Google for ssh public key tutorial turns up a vast number of sites to help with this. If there was a security problem key-based authentification might provide a solution. There isn't, so it doesn't. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121010230100.GK30872@desktop
Re: newbie question on port forwarding(and ssh, netcat)
Hi Joe! Thank you for detailed reply! Actually I found a switch which solved my problem and now all my experiments works perfectly. The command is: echo 1/proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward but...What is it?! Is there any other way to check and configure my laptop's status without writing directly to this file? ...well I know, linux is all about file... Joe於 2012年10月11日星期四UTC+9上午3時50分02秒寫道： On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 08:35:13 -0700 (PDT) houkensjtu houkens...@gmail.com wrote: Hi debianer! I am a newbie both of debian and networking... Recently I am trying to connect my home laptop(I have a router in my home) from office. I read several articles on port forwarding. And I succeeded in opening an 22 port on my router, also I started ssh server on my home laptop. (suppose my username at home is USER, and my laptop is called DEBIAN) I did several experiment and I got confusing in some of its result. 1. ssh USER@DEBIAN works well!! 2. nc -vz my_home_external_ip 22 [my_home_external_ip] 22 (ssh) : Connection refused I cant understand why is it. Because I have actually succeeded in test 1! 3. ssh -l USER my_home_external_ip ssh: connect to host my_home_external_ip port 22: Connection refused This also doesnt work! I thought it should be equivalent to test 1, but things just dont work. Any one can explain this? Not yet. Many commercial networks operate firewalls affecting the connections leaving the network so as yet you don't know which end of the connection has an issue. Divide the problem into two parts: the simplest way to check port forwarding is to use an external website from home, that way you can change things without travelling from your office, and you know the other end will have no firewall problems. A simple and slightly alarming but fairly reliable site is http://grc.com. Click on Shields Up!!, scroll down over halfway and click the heading Shields Up!, then Proceed, and Continue, then Common Ports (you can enter 22 manually, but the Common Ports is a quick test and just one click is needed). You're looking for 22 shown as Open, and probably all others as Stealth. Ignore all the dire warnings, this is a site for Windows users and they need to be scared. If 22 is not shown as Open, then you either haven't got the forwarding right, or sshd isn't running as you expect. If the router looks right, from your laptop try ssh IP address of laptop. This isn't the same as ssh localhost, as the ssh server treats different interfaces separately. If all is well at this end, but there is still a problem from your office, then you need to ask about outgoing firewalling there. However you resolve the initial problem, the ssh server is very heavily targeted by the bad guys, using password checking bots. A quick and dirty security measure is to forward a non-standard high numbered external TCP port to laptop:22 (nearly all routers should be able to do that) or to forward it to the same port of the laptop, and reconfigure the ssh server to listen on that port (the Port xxx line(s) in /etc/sshd_config). Remember to restart the ssh server if you need to do this. Six people will now leap in and say that's not going to improve security, all the bad guys have to do is run a portscan to find your server. However, scanning 65,000 ports of the same IP address across the Internet is no small undertaking, and will certainly attract attention, and I've never yet seen a bot attempt it. I don't get *any* connection attempts to my ssh port, while 22 gets 10-100 a day. The long-term solution is to disable passwords and use public-private key pairs for authentication, which is not really difficult, but is not for a complete beginner, and can certainly not be tried until you have the system working reliably on passwords. A quick Google for ssh public key tutorial turns up a vast number of sites to help with this. If you need to work from Windows, by the way, the puTTY program is pretty much the industry standard. There is also a Portable Apps version of it, which does not write anything to the Windows machine. -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121010194427.02ca4...@jretrading.com Joe於 2012年10月11日星期四UTC+9上午3時50分02秒寫道： On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 08:35:13 -0700 (PDT) houkensjtu houkens...@gmail.com wrote: Hi debianer! I am a newbie both of debian and networking... Recently I am trying to connect my home laptop(I have a router in my home) from office. I read several articles on port forwarding. And I succeeded in opening an 22 port on my router,
Re: newbie question on port forwarding(and ssh, netcat)
Brian於 2012年10月11日星期四UTC+9上午8時00分04秒寫道： On Wed 10 Oct 2012 at 08:35:13 -0700, houkensjtu wrote: I am a newbie both of debian and networking... Recently I am trying to connect my home laptop(I have a router in my home) from office. I read several articles on port forwarding. And I succeeded in opening an 22 port on my router, also I started ssh server on my home laptop. (suppose my username at home is USER, and my laptop is called DEBIAN) I did several experiment and I got confusing in some of its result. 1. ssh USER@DEBIAN works well!! We assume this means you were able to log in with your password, so it very much looks like you have set up port forwarding to the home machine correctly. Would you please say how your office machine resolves the IP number for DEBIAN. 2. nc -vz my_home_external_ip 22 [my_home_external_ip] 22 (ssh) : Connection refused I cant understand why is it. Because I have actually succeeded in test 1! What do get with ssh USER@my_home_external_ip ? 3. ssh -l USER my_home_external_ip ssh: connect to host my_home_external_ip port 22: Connection refused This also doesnt work! I thought it should be equivalent to test 1, but things just dont work. 'Connection refused' would indicate there is a route to the host but there is no daemon running on port 22. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20121010225534.GJ30872@desktop Thanks for great reply!! I have to apologize for sth... I forgot to say that all these experiments were done in home on my laptop...omg So, now I solved the problem with echo 1/proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward What is this file? Is there any other way to check or configure my laptop with out writing directly to this file? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/46b9951a-dffd-4f59-aa06-f5e66332f...@googlegroups.com
Re: newbie question on port forwarding(and ssh, netcat)
On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 08:19:25 PM houkensjtu wrote: Thanks for great reply!! I have to apologize for sth... I forgot to say that all these experiments were done in home on my laptop...omg So, now I solved the problem with echo 1/proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward What is this file? Is there any other way to check or configure my laptop with out writing directly to this file? That is exactly how you tell linux to forward traffic between NICs. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201210102046.03522.neal.p.mur...@alum.wpi.edu
Re: newbie question on port forwarding(and ssh, netcat)
Thanks Joe, Brian, Murphy As I post above, I forgot to say all these experiments were done in my home on my laptop... Now I am in my office and re-do all this experiment. To be short, now all experiment which is done with ip address works well, while if I do ssh USER@DEBIAN, it will say: ssh: Could not resolve hostname debian: Name or service not known I am wondering, who(or what device,server) will resolve the hostname? Is it possible to resolve my laptop's name from my office?? 2012年10月11日木曜日 1時00分03秒 UTC+9 houkensjtu: Hi debianer! I am a newbie both of debian and networking... Recently I am trying to connect my home laptop(I have a router in my home) from office. I read several articles on port forwarding. And I succeeded in opening an 22 port on my router, also I started ssh server on my home laptop. (suppose my username at home is USER, and my laptop is called DEBIAN) I did several experiment and I got confusing in some of its result. 1. ssh USER@DEBIAN works well!! 2. nc -vz my_home_external_ip 22 [my_home_external_ip] 22 (ssh) : Connection refused I cant understand why is it. Because I have actually succeeded in test 1! 3. ssh -l USER my_home_external_ip ssh: connect to host my_home_external_ip port 22: Connection refused This also doesnt work! I thought it should be equivalent to test 1, but things just dont work. Any one can explain this? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/95c24d80-4052-429d-8658-cf3f447ff...@googlegroups.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/84255302-35f8-4009-9f05-af25a076d...@googlegroups.com
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
On Sunday 08 April 2007 03:06, Michael M. wrote: On Sat, 2007-04-07 at 16:47 -0500, Randy Patterson wrote: Thanks for taking to time to post all that information. I have installed Gnome, just haven't figured out how to get it going yet! After reading your post one of the things that I think I need to do first is read some good articles/overviews of the WMs that are out there and how they work. I have a backlog of reading to do but will do some googling to read up on this. As your Google search will probably indicate, [1] Matt Chapman's site is one of the most popular overviews of desktop environments and window managers around. It's a good place to start. Be warned that a lot of the links are outdated. Thanks so much Michael for the good information. You are perfectly correct about the outdated information. This has big one of my biggest huddles as a newbie to try to find information that is current. When I first started reading I didn't know the difference between Potato, Woody, Sarge or Etch. There's a lot of information still out there written for pre-Sarge Debian. I read the complete Debian Tutorial before I found out that it was obsoleted. Wasn't a total loss because much of it still applied but I would have rather spend that time reading something more recent. I read most of the information at the Chapman site you listed and the section on KDE seems to be out of date as well because my system isn't setup the way he describe it. Most of my reading now only centers on http://www.debian.org/doc/. I am impressed with the debian-user list almost as much as I am with Debian Linux. This list has been and is an invaluable resource. My hat is off to all the people here that probably could do something a lot more profitable with their time but choose to spend some of it here helping others. Thanks, Randy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
On Sat, 2007-04-07 at 16:47 -0500, Randy Patterson wrote: Thanks for taking to time to post all that information. I have installed Gnome, just haven't figured out how to get it going yet! After reading your post one of the things that I think I need to do first is read some good articles/overviews of the WMs that are out there and how they work. I have a backlog of reading to do but will do some googling to read up on this. As your Google search will probably indicate, [1] Matt Chapman's site is one of the most popular overviews of desktop environments and window managers around. It's a good place to start. Be warned that a lot of the links are outdated. In some cases, it's because the project is defunct; in others, it's just because the link hasn't been updated. You can search or browse Debian's repository to see how many WMs are available through apt. As far as WMs go, you'll find that many are variations on a theme and fit into broad categories. 1) The *boxes: These include Blackbox, Fluxbox, and Openbox. They all share a similar design philosophy. Blackbox, I believe, was the first. Fluxbox is the most popular. Openbox is my favorite, not least because of its pipe menus. You'll have to read up on that feature as I can't really explain it properly. 2) Tiling WMs: These include ion3, PekWM, PWM and others. They especially excel at managing terminals and can be really cool to use if you find yourself doing lots of work in the shell. That's not to say they can't run graphical apps too, though. I would recommend checking out at least one of these, just for the experience of seeing how they work. They are very different from anything I ever encountered in MS Windows. 3) Minimalist: Even more barebones than the tiling WMs, these include Ratpoison and EvilWM. They are for people who *really* don't like reaching for the mouse! 4) Maximalist/traditional: WMs that provide some familiarity to anyone who's been using computers for a while. They often seem like DEs, but they aren't. They vary pretty widely in their design, so there's a lot to look at. Among the most popular or useful are WindowMaker, IceWM, Enlightenment, AfterStep, and FVWM (which has been discussed quite a bit on this list recently). One thing you might want to keep in mind is standards compliance. Another reason Openbox is my favorite of all the stand-alone WMs is that it aims for (and achieves) 100% [2] ICCCM compliance. WM developers vary in their adherence to [3] xdg specs; some are downright contemptuous of them and they have their reasons for that attitude. Using a WM that is good on standards compliance means you'll be able to use a wide range of apps and tools out there that are designed to work with any standards-compliant DE or WM. See, for example, [4] Devil's Pie. Using a WM that isn't standards-compliant means that many of these types of apps won't work well (or at all) in that environment. Just something else to consider. [1] http://xwinman.org/ [2] http://tronche.com/gui/x/icccm/ [3] http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Specifications [4] http://burtonini.com/blog/computers/devilspie -- Michael M. ++ Portland, OR ++ USA No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream. --S. Jackson -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
Joe Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just because distributions default to something doesn't mean that other things don't work on them. The beauty of Debian is that almost everything is available in the repositories. You can use whatever you feel most comfortable with. The only way you will know what fits you best is to try them. Don't take anyone else's word, including mine. Especially in Debian's case, a default doesn't mean much. And for Etch there are alternative CD1s with KDE and Xfce. BTW, AFAIK GNOME is (kinda) default because of historical reasons. Regards, Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
Randy Patterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're better off just installing all three and test them out. I think they are pretty feature-equivalent these days. As I had stated previously I installed from the debian-testing-i386-kde-CD-1.iso image. If I take your suggestion, which sounds like a good one, when I boot will I be given a choice of which system to start or will I have to manually close KDE and start one of the others? Although compared to Windoze XP I am thrilled with KDE I do think I would like to take a look at the others ones. AFAIR kdm can choose which DE/WM to run. Regards, Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Apr 05, 2007 at 12:26:53PM -0500, Randy Patterson wrote: On Thursday 05 April 2007 10:46, John L Fjellstad wrote: Randy Patterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have only had Debian up and going for about two weeks. Had Sarge installed but had problems with my USB hardware so just did a clean install of Etch. Works great!! Since I am a new user I don't have a favorite windowing system that I prefer and was wondering if someone to point me to a good link that would describe the strengths and weaknesses or pros and cons of each system. KDE installed as default with Sarge and Etch so I assume they chose that for a reason and it is the only one I have used. I have looked but haven't been able to find a good comparison them. You're better off just installing all three and test them out. I think they are pretty feature-equivalent these days. As I had stated previously I installed from the debian-testing-i386-kde-CD-1.iso image. If I take your suggestion, which sounds like a good one, when I boot will I be given a choice of which system to start or will I have to manually close KDE and start one of the others? Although compared to Windoze XP I am thrilled with KDE I do think I would like to take a look at the others ones. Thanks, Randy There should be a click-able button called Sessions. If you click it KDM will present you with a group of sessions to start (KDE, Failsafe*, Terminal), just pick the one you want. KDM is a smart display manager so it's able to automatically pick up when you install/uninstall window managers from your computer. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGF6aC/o7Q/FCvPe0RAoXfAKCwZI//2IREFC83lV/ctwAVNTO8HACeIVZL NEmVirEVAEp6XUZvhcveZLg= =PYkC -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
On Sat, 2007-04-07 at 11:19 -0400, Michael Pobega wrote: On Sat, Apr 07, 2007 at 09:40:57AM -0500, Randy Patterson wrote: Yes, I did find that and used it now. But, I did an install of the Gnome core; aptitude install gnome-core The Gnome option doesn't appear under the Session Type option. I assume that I haven't installed all the packages needed for Gnome. What additional packages do I need? Maybe the gnome-session package? Try that one it, I think it's the right package. gnome-core depends on gnome-session, so it should be installed. It is the right package as it provides /usr/share/xsessions/gnome.desktop . I'm not sure how kdm detects that file, it might need a restart or reload first. -- Cheers, Sven Arvidsson http://www.whiz.se PGP Key ID 760BDD22 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Apr 07, 2007 at 05:33:09PM +0200, Sven Arvidsson wrote: On Sat, 2007-04-07 at 11:19 -0400, Michael Pobega wrote: On Sat, Apr 07, 2007 at 09:40:57AM -0500, Randy Patterson wrote: Yes, I did find that and used it now. But, I did an install of the Gnome core; aptitude install gnome-core The Gnome option doesn't appear under the Session Type option. I assume that I haven't installed all the packages needed for Gnome. What additional packages do I need? Maybe the gnome-session package? Try that one it, I think it's the right package. gnome-core depends on gnome-session, so it should be installed. It is the right package as it provides /usr/share/xsessions/gnome.desktop . I'm not sure how kdm detects that file, it might need a restart or reload first. I figured that, but you never know; Better off double checking the package before assuming it's installed. Being safe is better than being sorry! -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGF72X/o7Q/FCvPe0RAgBiAJ4tlu/vH0frn4EKhwjkWzBO7Hq0bwCgmD1O rdpIuDN1hL9SdG1Hu9m4WFE= =usE9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Apr 07, 2007 at 09:40:57AM -0500, Randy Patterson wrote: On Saturday 07 April 2007 09:11, Michael Pobega wrote: As I had stated previously I installed from the debian-testing-i386-kde-CD-1.iso image. If I take your suggestion, which sounds like a good one, when I boot will I be given a choice of which system to start or will I have to manually close KDE and start one of the others? Although compared to Windoze XP I am thrilled with KDE I do think I would like to take a look at the others ones. Thanks, Randy There should be a click-able button called Sessions. If you click it KDM will present you with a group of sessions to start (KDE, Failsafe*, Terminal), just pick the one you want. KDM is a smart display manager so it's able to automatically pick up when you install/uninstall window managers from your computer. Yes, I did find that and used it now. But, I did an install of the Gnome core; aptitude install gnome-core The Gnome option doesn't appear under the Session Type option. I assume that I haven't installed all the packages needed for Gnome. What additional packages do I need? Thanks Randy Maybe the gnome-session package? Try that one it, I think it's the right package. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGF7Zy/o7Q/FCvPe0RAo8gAJ4uoe5gz7QYSkze8SNII2o4yD0grwCcCAXv rHwqar+eptHMCI8oFii5dIg= =D1dn -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
On Saturday 07 April 2007 09:11, Michael Pobega wrote: As I had stated previously I installed from the debian-testing-i386-kde-CD-1.iso image. If I take your suggestion, which sounds like a good one, when I boot will I be given a choice of which system to start or will I have to manually close KDE and start one of the others? Although compared to Windoze XP I am thrilled with KDE I do think I would like to take a look at the others ones. Thanks, Randy There should be a click-able button called Sessions. If you click it KDM will present you with a group of sessions to start (KDE, Failsafe*, Terminal), just pick the one you want. KDM is a smart display manager so it's able to automatically pick up when you install/uninstall window managers from your computer. Yes, I did find that and used it now. But, I did an install of the Gnome core; aptitude install gnome-core The Gnome option doesn't appear under the Session Type option. I assume that I haven't installed all the packages needed for Gnome. What additional packages do I need? Thanks Randy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 07:29 -0500, Randy Patterson wrote: On Thursday 05 April 2007 06:22, Michael M. wrote: On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 20:19 -0400, Javier Enrique Tiá Marín wrote: Why Gnome is the Default Desktop for Distributions like Ubuntu/Debian, RedHat/CentOS/Fedora and OpenSuse? Because Gnome is superior, of course. :-) As stated previously I am a newbie in the Linux world, but one that seen enough to know that there is no going back now! So currently I don't really have a loyalty to any of the higher level window systems. I would be interested in knowing from your experience why you feel that Gnome is superior to KDE. I guess what I am looking for deals more with the functionality than anything else and not speed. So far going from Windoze to Linux/KDE is like going from dialup to wireless! Well I was joking of course, as the smiley was supposed to indicate. It's more accurate to say I prefer Gnome, but I don't believe there's any objective criteria by which one can say definitively that Gnome or KDE is any better than the other or that either one is better than XFCE. I settled on Gnome after lots of trials with other DEs and WMs. For a while I avoided DEs altogether and just used various WMs, which IMO is a good way to learn about some of the under-the-hood functionality of Linux OSes. WMs tend not to do many things for you except manage your windows, so using one forces you to learn about doing things manually (things like mounting filesystems, for example, or starting various processes at boot or later). It can be really useful to know *why* things happen the way they do, so you know where to look when something you expect will happen doesn't. DEs add a layer of complexity by automating a lot of tasks and giving you DE-specific tools to automate even more. That can be a real timesaver, but if you don't understand what they are doing it will leave you helpless when something breaks. Especially if you're coming from Windows or OS X, where everything is of a piece, sticking to just a WM for a while helps you grok the separation of functionality that's inherent in Linux OSes. The other thing that's useful about trying various WMs is that it can give you ideas about how you'd like things set up on your system, ideas that you might never have been exposed to otherwise. Just go visit various screenshot galleries and you'll see how very different from each other Linux desktops can look, and you'll start to get an idea of how differently they can function too. As for Gnome vs KDE, my preference for Gnome basically comes down to two factors. The first is that, after trying out lots of different apps, I found that I tended to like apps using the GTK+ toolkit better than apps using QT. It is certainly possible to use GTK+ apps under KDE and QT apps under Gnome -- many people do all the time -- but generally speaking (and I do mean *very* generally!) GTK+ apps are more suited to Gnome or XFCE and QT apps are more suited to KDE. Since I found very few QT apps essential (in fact, I don't have any QT apps installed anymore), it didn't seem to make much sense to me to use a DE that was designed using QT. To put it simply, it's the apps, stupid. :-) The second factor is that I like the way Gnome is laid out by default. I like the thin panels at the top and bottom (you can run Gnome with only one panel if you prefer, but I like having two). I like the themes available and don't feel the need to tweak them much. In fact I'm happy with most Gnome's defaults and haven't felt the need to change much. Once in a while I'll go into gconf to tweak something or other, but mostly it just suits me. I didn't feel the same about KDE. KDE has an enormous number of preference options and can be customized out the wazoo, which is one thing many people like about it and some others criticize it for, so you can probably bend and twist KDE into just about anything you prefer. But that's a lot of work and I got tired of it, especially given that after all was said and done, I was still using more GTK+ than QT apps. (It probably didn't help that the very first Linux distro I tried defaulted to what I thought was a particulary ugly KDE environment; it was a while before I figured out that KDE can look quite beautiful if you put the time and effort into it.) Gnome can be customized pretty extensively too, but heavy customization isn't exactly the design philosophy behind Gnome. Personally, I felt like I was constantly fighting with KDE, trying to change all the things I didn't care for, whereas with Gnome I didn't need to. To put it simply, it's the defaults, stupid. :-) One example of what I mean. One of my part time jobs is hosting and setting up websites and web apps (ASP/PHP). I cannot work without a password vault of some kind because I have way more login information than I could ever remember. While setting up a Kmail account I was blown away when it ask me if I
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
On Saturday 07 April 2007 14:41, Michael M. wrote: snipped Michael's long and very helpful post! -- Michael M. ++ Portland, OR ++ USA No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream. --S. Jackson Thanks for taking to time to post all that information. I have installed Gnome, just haven't figured out how to get it going yet! After reading your post one of the things that I think I need to do first is read some good articles/overviews of the WMs that are out there and how they work. I have a backlog of reading to do but will do some googling to read up on this. Thanks, Randy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
On Saturday 07 April 2007 10:49, Michael Pobega wrote: The Gnome option doesn't appear under the Session Type option. I assume that I haven't installed all the packages needed for Gnome. What additional packages do I need? Maybe the gnome-session package? Try that one it, I think it's the right package. gnome-core depends on gnome-session, so it should be installed. It is the right package as it provides /usr/share/xsessions/gnome.desktop . I'm not sure how kdm detects that file, it might need a restart or reload first. I figured that, but you never know; Better off double checking the package before assuming it's installed. Being safe is better than being sorry! And you would be exactly right in doing so! That was my problem. As stated previously I had used aptitude to install the gnome-core but there was still no Gnome option. I just installed gnome-session using aptitude and now all is will. In fact I am using Gnome as I send this message. Thanks again, Randy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
On Thursday 05 April 2007 08:14, Michael Pobega wrote: On Thu, Apr 05, 2007 at 07:33:28AM -0500, Randy Patterson wrote: On Thursday 05 April 2007 06:22, Michael M. wrote: On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 20:19 -0400, Javier Enrique Tiá Marín wrote: Why Gnome is the Default Desktop for Distributions like Ubuntu/Debian, RedHat/CentOS/Fedora and OpenSuse? Because Gnome is superior, of course. :-) As stated previously I am a newbie in the Linux world, but one that seen enough to know that there is no going back now! So currently I don't really have a loyalty to any of the higher level window systems. I would be interested in knowing from your experience why you feel that Gnome is superior to KDE. I guess what I am looking for deals more with the functionality than anything else and not speed. So far going from Windoze to Linux/KDE is like going from dialup to wireless! It really depends on what you want. KDE is better if you want to fine tune how your system runs (But KDE is sluggish in my opinion), GNOME is a /bit/ lighter without much customization involved. Xfce is the best of the three in my experience, giving the user both control and speed. Or, if you want to really save your CPU cycles, try a window manager. Fluxbox/FVWM/WindowMaker are the best in my opinion, I personally use Window Maker (As I've stated dozens of times on these mailing lists). You really don't have to worry about desktop integration, because if you love Kmail and Kwallet then you could run the Kwallet daemon when you log in and have all of the functionality of Kwallet in say, GNOME/Fluxbox. # aptitude install fluxbox wmaker icewm gnome-core kde-core xfce4 xfwm4 And give them all a shot :) I ran the above aptitude command line and here is last section copied from the terminal window; begin The following packages will be REMOVED: libfam0 The following packages will be upgraded: libnspr4-0d libnss3-0d 2 packages upgraded, 203 newly installed, 1 to remove and 52 not upgraded. Need to get 113MB of archives. After unpacking 428MB will be used. The following packages have unmet dependencies: gamin: Conflicts: fam but 2.7.0-12 is to be installed. Resolving dependencies... The following actions will resolve these dependencies: Keep the following packages at their current version: fam [Not Installed] Leave the following dependencies unresolved: libgnomevfs2-0 recommends fam nautilus recommends fam Score is -341 Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?] end I chose not to accept this right now. Do I need to add these two packages to the above command line so that they will be resolved or does it even matter? Thanks, Randy
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Apr 06, 2007 at 07:53:01AM -0500, Randy Patterson wrote: On Thursday 05 April 2007 08:14, Michael Pobega wrote: On Thu, Apr 05, 2007 at 07:33:28AM -0500, Randy Patterson wrote: On Thursday 05 April 2007 06:22, Michael M. wrote: On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 20:19 -0400, Javier Enrique Tiá Marín wrote: Why Gnome is the Default Desktop for Distributions like Ubuntu/Debian, RedHat/CentOS/Fedora and OpenSuse? Because Gnome is superior, of course. :-) As stated previously I am a newbie in the Linux world, but one that seen enough to know that there is no going back now! So currently I don't really have a loyalty to any of the higher level window systems. I would be interested in knowing from your experience why you feel that Gnome is superior to KDE. I guess what I am looking for deals more with the functionality than anything else and not speed. So far going from Windoze to Linux/KDE is like going from dialup to wireless! It really depends on what you want. KDE is better if you want to fine tune how your system runs (But KDE is sluggish in my opinion), GNOME is a /bit/ lighter without much customization involved. Xfce is the best of the three in my experience, giving the user both control and speed. Or, if you want to really save your CPU cycles, try a window manager. Fluxbox/FVWM/WindowMaker are the best in my opinion, I personally use Window Maker (As I've stated dozens of times on these mailing lists). You really don't have to worry about desktop integration, because if you love Kmail and Kwallet then you could run the Kwallet daemon when you log in and have all of the functionality of Kwallet in say, GNOME/Fluxbox. # aptitude install fluxbox wmaker icewm gnome-core kde-core xfce4 xfwm4 And give them all a shot :) I ran the above aptitude command line and here is last section copied from the terminal window; begin The following packages will be REMOVED: libfam0 The following packages will be upgraded: libnspr4-0d libnss3-0d 2 packages upgraded, 203 newly installed, 1 to remove and 52 not upgraded. Need to get 113MB of archives. After unpacking 428MB will be used. The following packages have unmet dependencies: gamin: Conflicts: fam but 2.7.0-12 is to be installed. Resolving dependencies... The following actions will resolve these dependencies: Keep the following packages at their current version: fam [Not Installed] Leave the following dependencies unresolved: libgnomevfs2-0 recommends fam nautilus recommends fam Score is -341 Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?] end I chose not to accept this right now. Do I need to add these two packages to the above command line so that they will be resolved or does it even matter? Thanks, Randy As long as you have Gamin installed it should be fine. I have Gamin and not Fam and my system hasn't exploded yet :D -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGFkWw/o7Q/FCvPe0RAlyOAJ457AtaHRtAA+owmnXig4OY30KmtwCfYfxR Iai7LEkKjMVs2cbTQ/anOjo= =B+L6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 09:05:52 -0400
Michael Pobega [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Fri, Apr 06, 2007 at 07:53:01AM -0500, Randy Patterson wrote:
On Thursday 05 April 2007 08:14, Michael Pobega wrote:
On Thu, Apr 05, 2007 at 07:33:28AM -0500, Randy Patterson wrote:
On Thursday 05 April 2007 06:22, Michael M. wrote:
On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 20:19 -0400, Javier Enrique Tiá Marín wrote:
Why Gnome is the Default Desktop for Distributions like
Ubuntu/Debian, RedHat/CentOS/Fedora and OpenSuse?
Because Gnome is superior, of course. :-)
As stated previously I am a newbie in the Linux world, but one that seen
enough to know that there is no going back now! So currently I don't
really have a loyalty to any of the higher level window systems. I would
be interested in knowing from your experience why you feel that Gnome is
superior to KDE. I guess what I am looking for deals more with the
functionality than anything else and not speed. So far going from
Windoze
to Linux/KDE is like going from dialup to wireless!
It really depends on what you want. KDE is better if you want to fine
tune how your system runs (But KDE is sluggish in my opinion), GNOME
is a /bit/ lighter without much customization involved. Xfce is the
best of the three in my experience, giving the user both control and
speed.
Or, if you want to really save your CPU cycles, try a window manager.
Fluxbox/FVWM/WindowMaker are the best in my opinion, I personally use
Window Maker (As I've stated dozens of times on these mailing lists).
You really don't have to worry about desktop integration, because if
you love Kmail and Kwallet then you could run the Kwallet daemon when
you log in and have all of the functionality of Kwallet in say,
GNOME/Fluxbox.
# aptitude install fluxbox wmaker icewm gnome-core kde-core xfce4 xfwm4
And give them all a shot :)
I ran the above aptitude command line and here is last section copied from
the
terminal window;
begin
The following packages will be REMOVED:
libfam0
The following packages will be upgraded:
libnspr4-0d libnss3-0d
2 packages upgraded, 203 newly installed, 1 to remove and 52 not upgraded.
Need to get 113MB of archives. After unpacking 428MB will be used.
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
gamin: Conflicts: fam but 2.7.0-12 is to be installed.
Resolving dependencies...
The following actions will resolve these dependencies:
Keep the following packages at their current version:
fam [Not Installed]
Leave the following dependencies unresolved:
libgnomevfs2-0 recommends fam
nautilus recommends fam
Score is -341
Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?]
end
I chose not to accept this right now. Do I need to add these two packages
to
the above command line so that they will be resolved or does it even matter?
Thanks,
Randy
As long as you have Gamin installed it should be fine. I have Gamin
and not Fam and my system hasn't exploded yet :D
Same here. I ran into this problem when I installed bluefish, which
pulled in some GNOME stuff which conflicted with fam. OTOH, I use Xfce,
and something there wanted ('suggested') fam (I don't recall exactly
what, but I think it had to do with Thunar, and I don't know if that
dependency is still there), which upset aptitude. I chose to take gamin
since bluefish 'required' (indirectly) it, and not fam, since it
was only 'suggested'. I don't think I've experienced any problems.
Celejar
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
Keep the following packages at their current version: fam [Not Installed] Leave the following dependencies unresolved: libgnomevfs2-0 recommends fam nautilus recommends fam Score is -341 Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?] end I chose not to accept this right now. Do I need to add these two packages to the above command line so that they will be resolved or does it even matter? Thanks, Randy I would accept the solution. You'll need nautilus for gnome to run correctly. If you have gamin, you'll not need fam. So, keeping gamin, not installing fam, and installing nautilus and libgnomevfs2-0 (despite them desiring fam) should work (it works on my computer). I would also update, and upgrade your entire system (ie, aptitude update, followed by aptitude dist-upgrade) first, given that it reported 52 not upgraded when you were installing. Personally, though, if your computer is fast enough, I would not bother with anything other than kde or gnome. Mark -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Michael M. wrote: On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 20:19 -0400, Javier Enrique Tiá Marín wrote: Why Gnome is the Default Desktop for Distributions like Ubuntu/Debian, RedHat/CentOS/Fedora and OpenSuse? Because Gnome is superior, of course. :-) Flamebait! Oh now, now we're going to get a flamewar over which DE is best. Just what we need. Joe - -- Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGFN+liXBCVWpc5J4RAmI9AKC5m08mBDKbCUsL4rCiEgS3j7KBxQCgjgwB cPuFFVANklntUP24o2xiNEc= =7f/9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 20:19 -0400, Javier Enrique Tiá Marín wrote: Why Gnome is the Default Desktop for Distributions like Ubuntu/Debian, RedHat/CentOS/Fedora and OpenSuse? Because Gnome is superior, of course. :-) -- Michael M. ++ Portland, OR ++ USA No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream. --S. Jackson -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
On Thursday 05 April 2007 06:22, Michael M. wrote: On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 20:19 -0400, Javier Enrique Tiá Marín wrote: Why Gnome is the Default Desktop for Distributions like Ubuntu/Debian, RedHat/CentOS/Fedora and OpenSuse? Because Gnome is superior, of course. :-) As stated previously I am a newbie in the Linux world, but one that seen enough to know that there is no going back now! So currently I don't really have a loyalty to any of the higher level window systems. I would be interested in knowing from your experience why you feel that Gnome is superior to KDE. I guess what I am looking for deals more with the functionality than anything else and not speed. So far going from Windoze to Linux/KDE is like going from dialup to wireless! One example of what I mean. One of my part time jobs is hosting and setting up websites and web apps (ASP/PHP). I cannot work without a password vault of some kind because I have way more login information than I could ever remember. While setting up a Kmail account I was blown away when it ask me if I wanted to store the password in Kwalet! I think in the back of my mind I thought I was going to have to give up some functionality for free software in moving to Linux. Was I ever so wrong! From my point of view the real speed of an OS/Windowing system is not just in how fast it will pop a window on the screen, although important, but also in how does it, with the functionality it contains, speed you along with the work that you have to do? So, do you think Gnome is functionally better and KDE and why? Thanks, Randy
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
On Thursday 05 April 2007 06:22, Michael M. wrote: On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 20:19 -0400, Javier Enrique Tiá Marín wrote: Why Gnome is the Default Desktop for Distributions like Ubuntu/Debian, RedHat/CentOS/Fedora and OpenSuse? Because Gnome is superior, of course. :-) As stated previously I am a newbie in the Linux world, but one that seen enough to know that there is no going back now! So currently I don't really have a loyalty to any of the higher level window systems. I would be interested in knowing from your experience why you feel that Gnome is superior to KDE. I guess what I am looking for deals more with the functionality than anything else and not speed. So far going from Windoze to Linux/KDE is like going from dialup to wireless! One example of what I mean. One of my part time jobs is hosting and setting up websites and web apps (ASP/PHP). I cannot work without a password vault of some kind because I have way more login information than I could ever remember. While setting up a Kmail account I was blown away when it ask me if I wanted to store the password in Kwalet! I think in the back of my mind I thought I was going to have to give up some functionality for free software in moving to Linux. Was I ever so wrong! From my point of view the real speed of an OS/Windowing system is not just in how fast it will pop a window on the screen, although important, but also in how does it, with the functionality it contains, speed you along with the work that you have to do? So, do you think Gnome is functionally better and KDE and why? Thanks, Randy
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
Oops! Sorry about that! Kmail gave me an error on the first send so I didn't think it was sent out. On Thursday 05 April 2007 07:33, Randy Patterson wrote: On Thursday 05 April 2007 06:22, Michael M. wrote: On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 20:19 -0400, Javier Enrique Tiá Marín wrote: Why Gnome is the Default Desktop for Distributions like Ubuntu/Debian, RedHat/CentOS/Fedora and OpenSuse? Because Gnome is superior, of course. :-) As stated previously I am a newbie in the Linux world, but one that seen enough to know that there is no going back now! So currently I don't really have a loyalty to any of the higher level window systems. I would be interested in knowing from your experience why you feel that Gnome is superior to KDE. I guess what I am looking for deals more with the functionality than anything else and not speed. So far going from Windoze to Linux/KDE is like going from dialup to wireless! One example of what I mean. One of my part time jobs is hosting and setting up websites and web apps (ASP/PHP). I cannot work without a password vault of some kind because I have way more login information than I could ever remember. While setting up a Kmail account I was blown away when it ask me if I wanted to store the password in Kwalet! I think in the back of my mind I thought I was going to have to give up some functionality for free software in moving to Linux. Was I ever so wrong! From my point of view the real speed of an OS/Windowing system is not just in how fast it will pop a window on the screen, although important, but also in how does it, with the functionality it contains, speed you along with the work that you have to do? So, do you think Gnome is functionally better and KDE and why? Thanks, Randy
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Apr 05, 2007 at 07:33:28AM -0500, Randy Patterson wrote: On Thursday 05 April 2007 06:22, Michael M. wrote: On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 20:19 -0400, Javier Enrique Tiá Marín wrote: Why Gnome is the Default Desktop for Distributions like Ubuntu/Debian, RedHat/CentOS/Fedora and OpenSuse? Because Gnome is superior, of course. :-) As stated previously I am a newbie in the Linux world, but one that seen enough to know that there is no going back now! So currently I don't really have a loyalty to any of the higher level window systems. I would be interested in knowing from your experience why you feel that Gnome is superior to KDE. I guess what I am looking for deals more with the functionality than anything else and not speed. So far going from Windoze to Linux/KDE is like going from dialup to wireless! One of the things about the free software world is that you dont have the artifical issues about cost to consider. Most newbies try a few distros, try a few windowmanager, a few text editors, etc. With the issue of cost out of the way, it all about find out what works for you and even pitching in to make something even better by making a tweak for your own needs and sometimes giving that back for others to enjoy. I'm currently using xfce4 as my system has 256mb and xfce is gaining some nice integration. Free software extends your investment in hardware by maybe double. - -- | .''`. == Debian GNU/Linux == | my web site: | | : :' : The Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/| | `. `' Operating System| go to counter.li.org and | | `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656 | | my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org | |join the new debian-community.org to help Debian! | |___ Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___| -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGFO+kv8UcC1qRZVMRAvCSAJ48OJ3Ha5cK9ifRqbO7c/swiYqEDwCfSluk GwSfe6U73ZkQhA9Wr8nUHOU= =mBTP -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, Apr 05, 2007 at 07:33:28AM -0500, Randy Patterson wrote: On Thursday 05 April 2007 06:22, Michael M. wrote: On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 20:19 -0400, Javier Enrique Tiá Marín wrote: Why Gnome is the Default Desktop for Distributions like Ubuntu/Debian, RedHat/CentOS/Fedora and OpenSuse? Because Gnome is superior, of course. :-) As stated previously I am a newbie in the Linux world, but one that seen enough to know that there is no going back now! So currently I don't really have a loyalty to any of the higher level window systems. I would be interested in knowing from your experience why you feel that Gnome is superior to KDE. I guess what I am looking for deals more with the functionality than anything else and not speed. So far going from Windoze to Linux/KDE is like going from dialup to wireless! It really depends on what you want. KDE is better if you want to fine tune how your system runs (But KDE is sluggish in my opinion), GNOME is a /bit/ lighter without much customization involved. Xfce is the best of the three in my experience, giving the user both control and speed. Or, if you want to really save your CPU cycles, try a window manager. Fluxbox/FVWM/WindowMaker are the best in my opinion, I personally use Window Maker (As I've stated dozens of times on these mailing lists). You really don't have to worry about desktop integration, because if you love Kmail and Kwallet then you could run the Kwallet daemon when you log in and have all of the functionality of Kwallet in say, GNOME/Fluxbox. # aptitude install fluxbox wmaker icewm gnome-core kde-core xfce4 xfwm4 And give them all a shot :) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGFPY+/o7Q/FCvPe0RAk8pAJ4o88jMxzmSe0XOX0w6IOGzlRn5CQCfScXY bLl5TE0yLU+EuEQXgIQMt78= =i40+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Kevin Mark wrote: [snip] As stated previously I am a newbie in the Linux world, but one that seen enough to know that there is no going back now! So currently I don't really have a loyalty to any of the higher level window systems. I would be interested in knowing from your experience why you feel that Gnome is superior to KDE. I guess what I am looking for deals more with the functionality than anything else and not speed. So far going from Windoze to Linux/KDE is like going from dialup to wireless! One of the things about the free software world is that you dont have the artifical issues about cost to consider. Most newbies try a few distros, try a few windowmanager, a few text editors, etc. With the issue of cost out of the way, it all about find out what works for you and even pitching in to make something even better by making a tweak for your own needs and sometimes giving that back for others to enjoy. I'm currently using xfce4 as my system has 256mb and xfce is gaining some nice integration. Free software extends your investment in hardware by maybe double. Well said Kevin. Personally, I started out with Gnome but switched to KDE because it has more options to configure it the way I like it. Interoperability between the different KDE programs is very good, and it has a consistant interface. Gnome has the consistant interface, but lacks some of the configurability of KDE and also has IMO, one of the worst file managers produced. It has been said that KDE also more resembles Windows, so you can get used to using it much quicker. I don't really agree with that because KDE has a lot more functionality than Windows does. If your machine is older, and you don't have a lot of memory, then I would suggest you try xfce. Kevin uses it, and one of my old computers uses it. Just because distributions default to something doesn't mean that other things don't work on them. The beauty of Debian is that almost everything is available in the repositories. You can use whatever you feel most comfortable with. The only way you will know what fits you best is to try them. Don't take anyone else's word, including mine. Joe - -- Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGFPgEiXBCVWpc5J4RAvnnAJ9MhY61qab3chb5KnfSre7AdFLPfgCgg8XC dIm72/2Mp7ZPgmn33mjRtcc= =hPnG -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
On Thu, Apr 05, 2007 at 01:38:13PM +0200, Joe Hart wrote: Why Gnome is the Default Desktop for Distributions like Ubuntu/Debian, RedHat/CentOS/Fedora and OpenSuse? Because Gnome is superior, of course. :-) Flamebait! Oh now, now we're going to get a flamewar over which DE is best. Just what we need. Desktop environment: A constant 22 C while I type at the command line. Eye Candy: Typing on the command line: setterm -background green -foreground red -store Mouse: Device whose job it is to pull your hand from the home keys. Minimal command line interface: no monitor, no graphics card, no terminal, just a dot matrix printer and a keyboard. Yup, did that once when I _really_ needed to fix something. Yae Ed! :) Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 19:09 -0400, Kamaraju S Kusumanchi wrote: . gconf spews all sorts of errors into log files. Not true as of 2.18.0.1-2. -- Cheers, Sven Arvidsson http://www.whiz.se PGP Key ID 760BDD22 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
Sven Arvidsson wrote: On Wed, 2007-04-04 at 19:09 -0400, Kamaraju S Kusumanchi wrote: . gconf spews all sorts of errors into log files. Not true as of 2.18.0.1-2. Too bad that this is not in Etch. But good to know. thanks raju -- Kamaraju S Kusumanchi http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/ http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
Doug writes: Minimal command line interface: no monitor, no graphics card, no terminal, just a dot matrix printer and a keyboard. Yup, did that once when I _really_ needed to fix something. You really don't want to get into that competition here. -- John Hasler Plugboards, toggle switches... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
Randy Patterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have only had Debian up and going for about two weeks. Had Sarge installed but had problems with my USB hardware so just did a clean install of Etch. Works great!! Since I am a new user I don't have a favorite windowing system that I prefer and was wondering if someone to point me to a good link that would describe the strengths and weaknesses or pros and cons of each system. KDE installed as default with Sarge and Etch so I assume they chose that for a reason and it is the only one I have used. I have looked but haven't been able to find a good comparison them. You're better off just installing all three and test them out. I think they are pretty feature-equivalent these days. -- John L. Fjellstad web: http://www.fjellstad.org/ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
On Thursday 05 April 2007 10:46, John L Fjellstad wrote: Randy Patterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have only had Debian up and going for about two weeks. Had Sarge installed but had problems with my USB hardware so just did a clean install of Etch. Works great!! Since I am a new user I don't have a favorite windowing system that I prefer and was wondering if someone to point me to a good link that would describe the strengths and weaknesses or pros and cons of each system. KDE installed as default with Sarge and Etch so I assume they chose that for a reason and it is the only one I have used. I have looked but haven't been able to find a good comparison them. You're better off just installing all three and test them out. I think they are pretty feature-equivalent these days. As I had stated previously I installed from the debian-testing-i386-kde-CD-1.iso image. If I take your suggestion, which sounds like a good one, when I boot will I be given a choice of which system to start or will I have to manually close KDE and start one of the others? Although compared to Windoze XP I am thrilled with KDE I do think I would like to take a look at the others ones. Thanks, Randy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
Randy Patterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As I had stated previously I installed from the debian-testing-i386-kde-CD-1.iso image. If I take your suggestion, which sounds like a good one, when I boot will I be given a choice of which system to start or will I have to manually close KDE and start one of the others? Although compared to Windoze XP I am thrilled with KDE I do think I would like to take a look at the others ones. Well, I'm not sure what kind of environment the kde testing cd will install these days, but I presume you do have a GUI login environment (using KDM). There is an option in KDM that let you choose which environment you want to use (it's called sessions, I think). So, basically, you install all three environments. *After* you boot-up, you will get the familiar login screen. Type in your name and then choose the environment. The system will remember what you chose last. To change environment, just logout of your current session, and log back in with the new environment. -- John L. Fjellstad web: http://www.fjellstad.org/ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
Randy Patterson wrote: I have only had Debian up and going for about two weeks. Had Sarge installed but had problems with my USB hardware so just did a clean install of Etch. Works great!! Since I am a new user I don't have a favorite windowing system that I prefer and was wondering if someone to point me to a good link that would describe the strengths and weaknesses or pros and cons of each system. KDE installed as default with Sarge and Etch so I assume they chose that for a reason and it is the only one I have used. I have looked but haven't been able to find a good comparison them. Thanks, Randy I also use KDE and am a big fan of it. But let me correct one thing. KDE is not chosen as default in Debian. The default with net install image is nothing. Users are expected to install what they like. Why KDE? . Comes with almost everything that an ordinary desktop user can think of. . Components of KDE integrate/communicate well within each other. Ex :- clicking on a link in kmail will open it in konqueror etc., . The interface is consistent across all the KDE applications. . Almost everything can be configured to your taste. . Konqueror, konsole are just awesome! Why not KDE? . It is a memory hog, CPU intensive, slow compared to most other DEs. . Lot of annoying warnings both on konsole and in .xsession_errors for which no solution (AFAIK) exists. This is not a problem but is very inconvenient. Use KDE only if you have a decently fast machine. Otherwise it wont be a pleasant experience. GNOME vs KDE . Gnome's file picker is pretty bad compared to KDE's file picker. . gconf spews all sorts of errors into log files. Due to these two inconveniences, I completely stopped using Gnome and shifted to KDE. Xfce . Well designed and useful if you have a slow machine. . can be used as a backup, in case the big guys like KDE/GNOME fail to load for some reason. hth raju -- Kamaraju S Kusumanchi http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/ http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 05:12:28PM -0500, Randy Patterson wrote: I have only had Debian up and going for about two weeks. Had Sarge installed but had problems with my USB hardware so just did a clean install of Etch. Works great!! Since I am a new user I don't have a favorite windowing system that I prefer and was wondering if someone to point me to a good link that would describe the strengths and weaknesses or pros and cons of each system. KDE installed as default with Sarge and Etch so I assume they chose that for a reason and it is the only one I have used. I have looked but haven't been able to find a good comparison them. Sounds like a religious question :) If you don't find any objective comparisons, do what others before you have done: install them one at a time and try them out. Personally, I used to use icewm (still do on my 486). On my new Athlong box, I started with icewm but I don't think the menu configuration is as simple as it ought. I didn't like gnome's file selector and other high-level widgets, liked XFce4 but since I also didn't like the mozilla geko browsers used Konquorer. Since that brought in most of the kde libs anyway, gave kde a try. So far, I'm sticking with it since I can easily configure anything. Then again I've got tons of ram, disk space, and cycles to spare. Good luck. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
El Miércoles, 4 de Abril de 2007 19:09, Kamaraju S Kusumanchi escribió: Randy Patterson wrote: I have only had Debian up and going for about two weeks. Had Sarge installed but had problems with my USB hardware so just did a clean install of Etch. Works great!! Since I am a new user I don't have a favorite windowing system that I prefer and was wondering if someone to point me to a good link that would describe the strengths and weaknesses or pros and cons of each system. KDE installed as default with Sarge and Etch so I assume they chose that for a reason and it is the only one I have used. I have looked but haven't been able to find a good comparison them. Thanks, Randy I also use KDE and am a big fan of it. But let me correct one thing. KDE is not chosen as default in Debian. The default with net install image is nothing. Users are expected to install what they like. Why KDE? . Comes with almost everything that an ordinary desktop user can think of. . Components of KDE integrate/communicate well within each other. Ex :- clicking on a link in kmail will open it in konqueror etc., . The interface is consistent across all the KDE applications. . Almost everything can be configured to your taste. . Konqueror, konsole are just awesome! Why not KDE? . It is a memory hog, CPU intensive, slow compared to most other DEs. . Lot of annoying warnings both on konsole and in .xsession_errors for which no solution (AFAIK) exists. This is not a problem but is very inconvenient. Use KDE only if you have a decently fast machine. Otherwise it wont be a pleasant experience. GNOME vs KDE . Gnome's file picker is pretty bad compared to KDE's file picker. . gconf spews all sorts of errors into log files. Due to these two inconveniences, I completely stopped using Gnome and shifted to KDE. Xfce . Well designed and useful if you have a slow machine. . can be used as a backup, in case the big guys like KDE/GNOME fail to load for some reason. hth raju -- Kamaraju S Kusumanchi http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/ http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/ Why Gnome is the Default Desktop for Distributions like Ubuntu/Debian, RedHat/CentOS/Fedora and OpenSuse? Greetings, JETM
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
On Wednesday 04 April 2007 18:09, Kamaraju S Kusumanchi wrote: Randy Patterson wrote: I have only had Debian up and going for about two weeks. Had Sarge installed but had problems with my USB hardware so just did a clean install of Etch. Works great!! Since I am a new user I don't have a favorite windowing system that I prefer and was wondering if someone to point me to a good link that would describe the strengths and weaknesses or pros and cons of each system. KDE installed as default with Sarge and Etch so I assume they chose that for a reason and it is the only one I have used. I have looked but haven't been able to find a good comparison them. Thanks, Randy I also use KDE and am a big fan of it. But let me correct one thing. KDE is not chosen as default in Debian. The default with net install image is nothing. Users are expected to install what they like. I had forgot that I installed for the debian-testing-i386-kde-CD-1.iso image and there was no option. Guess i wrongly assumed same default for all installs. Why not KDE? . It is a memory hog, CPU intensive, slow compared to most other DEs. I guess your speaking relatively here! LOL I have used Windoze XP for about the last two years and KDE seemed as fast as a text based menu system when I first started it and I knew I was addicted! It's load time doesn't really compare either. I am a software developer and will be spending a lot of time in Eclipse. I was looking to find the best windowing system for my needs before I spend a lot of time getting my dev. env. setup. My time is somewhat limited and wasn't wanting to spend a lot of time in something that I wasn't going to use. Your comments and overview were very helpful. So would you say in general that the debian-testing-xxx-kde-CD-1.iso image is for higher end system installs and the debian-testing-xxx-xfce-CD-1.iso image is for lower end and debian-testing-xxx-netinst.iso image is to allow for all options? Sounds like I'm staying with KDE! :-) Thanks, Randy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
Randy Patterson wrote: So would you say in general that the debian-testing-xxx-kde-CD-1.iso image is for higher end system installs and the debian-testing-xxx-xfce-CD-1.iso image is for lower end and debian-testing-xxx-netinst.iso image is to allow for all options? I do not think debian-testing-xxx-kde-CD-1.iso is for higher end and debian-testing-xfce-CD-1.iso is for lower end. It's more like the former installs KDE by default and the later installs xfce by default. I searched for an official page (in http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/) confirming this, but could not find any info. May be others will provide a more authoritative answer. Regarding debian-testing-xxx-netinst.iso, there is more info at http://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#netinst . Essentially it gives a basic system by downloading as little as 180 MB. Afterwards users can download the software from the internet as and when the need arises. Sounds like I'm staying with KDE! :-) Well, that gives you a starting point. Once you acclimatize yourself with Debian, you can (and should) experiment with other DEs (Desktop Environments) and choose one that you like. hth raju -- Kamaraju S Kusumanchi http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/kk288/ http://malayamaarutham.blogspot.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 05:12:28PM -0500, Randy Patterson wrote: I have only had Debian up and going for about two weeks. Had Sarge installed but had problems with my USB hardware so just did a clean install of Etch. Works great!! Since I am a new user I don't have a favorite windowing system that I prefer and was wondering if someone to point me to a good link that would describe the strengths and weaknesses or pros and cons of each system. KDE installed as default with Sarge and Etch so I assume they chose that for a reason and it is the only one I have used. I have looked but haven't been able to find a good comparison them. Thanks, Randy In my opinion, forget desktop environments. The best way to learn about your GNU/Linux system is to use a lightweight environment and get used to using the terminal for all of your needs (Launching movies, viewing images, editing files, etc.) Of course, if you /need/ a full desktop environment, KDE in my opinion is the best out of the three. And Xfce is indefinitely better than GNOME, so if you want GTK and not Qt you're better off with Xfce. If you want to use something minimalistic, I'd recommend Window Maker. It's easy to set up (Only takes one free day to mess around with), and along with it's graphical configuration utility it becomes even easier. sudo apt-get install wmaker wmakerconf -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGFGmF/o7Q/FCvPe0RAtpdAKCKu+FXdP9sJAlPvFmRZ+TIZfKU6gCfcb6w 1KZZyMly67cqzkpZFbCWgQQ= =dQki -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question - KDE-Gnome-xfce
On Wed, Apr 04, 2007 at 07:12:58PM -0500, Randy Patterson wrote: So would you say in general that the debian-testing-xxx-kde-CD-1.iso image is for higher end system installs and the debian-testing-xxx-xfce-CD-1.iso image is for lower end and debian-testing-xxx-netinst.iso image is to allow for all options? Sounds like I'm staying with KDE! :-) Just a few months ago, some of the developers on the revitialized 'desktop' teams asked for an install cd in kde,gnome and xfce flavors. So before now, there was only 1 choice. This is some of the new momentum happening for lenny, our next release. -- | .''`. == Debian GNU/Linux == | my web site: | | : :' : The Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/| | `. `' Operating System| go to counter.li.org and | | `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656 | | my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org | |join the new debian-community.org to help Debian! | |___ Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___| signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Newbie Question: Debian and iTunes
Michael Pobega wrote: On 02/17/2007 08:52:31 AM, Jan Sneep wrote: [...] If you use iTunes to download music you're out of luck, because there are almost no Linux equivalents. If your kids only use iTunes to update their iPods, then there is always gtkpod, which is what I personally use to update my mom and sister's iPods (I don't own one myself). You may also be interested in ROCKbox (http://www.rockbox.org/) Rockbox is an open source replacement firmware for mp3 players. It runs on a number of different models: * *Archos*: Jukebox 5000, 6000, Studio, Recorder, FM Recorder, Recorder V2 and Ondio * *iriver*: H100, H300 and H10 series * *Apple*: iPod 4th gen (grayscale and color), 5th/5.5th gen (Video - 30GB and 60GB models only), 1st gen Nano and Mini 1st/2nd gen (/Nano 2nd gen and 80GB Video 5.5th gen are not supported/) * *iAudio*: X5 (including X5V and X5L) * *Toshiba*: Gigabeat X and F series (/the S model is not supported/) * Additional models are in development http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/TargetStatus -- Chris. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question: Debian and iTunes
On 02/17/2007 08:52:31 AM, Jan Sneep wrote: Well two weeks ago I successfully installed Debian for the first time (first time for any Linux OS for that matter) and thanks to the replies to my last question I've got Samba up and working beautifully and this week-end I'm going to get CUPS configured ... again many thanks to those that offered advice. Congrats on getting it to work. Now for another question ... Inspired with my recent success installing Debian on one machine I was thinking about changing the OS on the kids computer. It is currently running Windows ME and all they use it for is chatting with their friends and listening to music. It's a Compaq Presario with a 500 MHz AMD Athlon processor, 20 Gig hard drive and 256 Meg of RAM. Currently they use MSN Messenger 7.0 for chatting and Windows Media Player for listening to music. I'm assuming there are Linux equivalents? Perhaps more than one choice? What is recommended for using with the Debian GUI? I wrote my first PC program on an Apple back in 1983 and yes spent many years running programs before Windows was even a twinkle in Bill Gates' eye, however I'm not likely going to convince my kids to use a command line, they already think I'm ancient enough, so looking for apps that they can run from the GUI. The Linux equivalent to MSN Messenger is called amsn, I have no experience using it but from what I understand it's a MSN clone. For listening to music your children will have many choices, ranging from XMMS to Amarok and beyond. There are some full programs (With a whole lot of options) but XMMS in my opinion offers the bare minimum of what you need to listen to audio. and for the second part to my question ... How about iTunes for loading songs onto their iPods? At the moment they use my Windows Xp machine to fill up their iPods, because of course iTunes doesn't run on ME. I have to re-boot my machine after they're done because some iTunes service just grinds my processor down to a walk through molasses. It would be great if they could use their own machine to load up their iPods, however looking at the iTunes site I don't see a Linux version available for download. I figure there must be at least a few of you that have an iPod and have figured out how to load up tunes with your Debian OS? If you use iTunes to download music you're out of luck, because there are almost no Linux equivalents. If your kids only use iTunes to update their iPods, then there is always gtkpod, which is what I personally use to update my mom and sister's iPods (I don't own one myself).
Re: Newbie Question: Debian and iTunes
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 08:52:31 -0500 Jan Sneep [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and for the second part to my question ... How about iTunes for loading songs onto their iPods? At the moment they use my Windows Xp machine to fill up their iPods, because of course iTunes doesn't run on ME. I have to re-boot my machine after they're done because some iTunes service just grinds my processor down to a walk through molasses. It would be great if they could use their own machine to load up their iPods, however looking at the iTunes site I don't see a Linux version available for download. I figure there must be at least a few of you that have an iPod and have figured out how to load up tunes with your Debian OS? Any suggestions / recommendations / warnings would be appreciated. http://www.gtkpod.org/about.html Takes a bit of getting used to after iTunes but I like it. Regards -- John K Masters - User #417400 in the Linux Counter http://counter.li.org/ No trees were killed in the creation of this message. However, many electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question: Debian and iTunes
On 17-feb-2007, at 14:52, Jan Sneep wrote: snippage How about iTunes for loading songs onto their iPods? At the moment they use my Windows Xp machine to fill up their iPods, because of course iTunes doesn't run on ME. I have to re-boot my machine after they're done because some iTunes service just grinds my processor down to a walk through molasses. It would be great if they could use their own machine to load up their iPods, however looking at the iTunes site I don't see a Linux version available for download. I figure there must be at least a few of you that have an iPod and have figured out how to load up tunes with your Debian OS? Any suggestions / recommendations / warnings would be appreciated. It was recently announced that code weaver's crossover linux [1] supports iTunes for windows. Since it is based on wine, you might give wine a try too. [1] http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxoffice/ Peter -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question: Debian and iTunes
On Sat, 2007-02-17 at 08:52 -0500, Jan Sneep wrote: How about iTunes for loading songs onto their iPods? At the moment they use my Windows Xp machine to fill up their iPods, because of course iTunes doesn't run on ME. I have to re-boot my machine after they're done because some iTunes service just grinds my processor down to a walk through molasses. It would be great if they could use their own machine to load up their iPods, however looking at the iTunes site I don't see a Linux version available for download. I figure there must be at least a few of you that have an iPod and have figured out how to load up tunes with your Debian OS? Rhythmbox, Banshee, and others, are great music players and can sync with an Ipod. -- Cheers, Sven Arvidsson http://www.whiz.se PGP Key ID 760BDD22 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Newbie Question: Debian and iTunes
On Sat, 2007-02-17 at 16:30 +0100, Sven Arvidsson wrote: On Sat, 2007-02-17 at 08:52 -0500, Jan Sneep wrote: How about iTunes for loading songs onto their iPods? At the moment they use my Windows Xp machine to fill up their iPods, because of course iTunes doesn't run on ME. I have to re-boot my machine after they're done because some iTunes service just grinds my processor down to a walk through molasses. It would be great if they could use their own machine to load up their iPods, however looking at the iTunes site I don't see a Linux version available for download. I figure there must be at least a few of you that have an iPod and have figured out how to load up tunes with your Debian OS? Rhythmbox, Banshee, and others, are great music players and can sync with an Ipod. Take a look at GTKPod http://www.gtkpod.org/ there are packages for sarge and etch cheers Marcelo -- Marcelo Chiapparini [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie Question: Debian and iTunes
On Sat, Feb 17, 2007 at 08:52:31AM -0500, Jan Sneep wrote: Well two weeks ago I successfully installed Debian for the first time (first time for any Linux OS for that matter) congrats!! welcome to freedom... Inspired with my recent success installing Debian on one machine I was thinking about changing the OS on the kids computer. It is currently running Windows ME and all they use it for is chatting with their friends and listening to music. others have given suggestions already, I just want to say: Do It! kids are totally adaptable. Once they learn how they can truly customise and own the system, they'll be really happy (at least my 9 year old is). A signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Newbie Question: Debian and iTunes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Andrew Sackville-West wrote: On Sat, Feb 17, 2007 at 08:52:31AM -0500, Jan Sneep wrote: Well two weeks ago I successfully installed Debian for the first time (first time for any Linux OS for that matter) congrats!! welcome to freedom... Inspired with my recent success installing Debian on one machine I was thinking about changing the OS on the kids computer. It is currently running Windows ME and all they use it for is chatting with their friends and listening to music. others have given suggestions already, I just want to say: Do It! kids are totally adaptable. Once they learn how they can truly customise and own the system, they'll be really happy (at least my 9 year old is). A I have to concur. I have a computer for each of my two children (6 and 8 years old). Both are dual boot with Windows XP and Edubuntu. The kids NEVER boot into the Windows side because 1) the Edubuntu is default in grub and 2) They find more things to play with on the GNU/Linux side. I will most likely be wiping out the Windows side very soon because it just takes up space and I can set grub to just boot immediately into the GNU/Linux and speed up the boot process, which makes them happier. I'll also likely switch it over to running Etch, because I am VERY happy with it so far. I am afraid that over the next few years, let loose on a GNU/Linux system that they know the root password for, they'll be far more proficient with it than I am. It is utterly amazing how fast children can learn. Joe -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF11TViXBCVWpc5J4RAj4jAJ9+klN3EckPJOCmHPXzdPhmHRItKwCfWZh5 lwjJ6RW0qo5x08Nh4xfMscY= =zFZr -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 11:41:29PM +1100, Duncan McDonald wrote: The message could not be sent because one of the recipients was rejected by the server. The rejected email-mail address was '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'. Subject 'test', Account: 'blah', Server: 'mail.bigpond.com', Protocol: SMTP, Server Response: '550 Invalid recipient: [EMAIL PROTECTED]', Port: 25, Secure(SSL): No, Server Error: 550, Error Number: 0x800CCC79 no server error, and the fact that you later say you see nothing in your exim4 logs make me wonder if you've setup MX records for your domain to point to the IP address of your server? Steve -- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
On Wed January 10 2007 04:41, Duncan McDonald wrote: Hi all, I'm relatively new to Debian administration and I've recently encountered a problem with Exim which has me stumped. While I can send email directly from the server to external recipients and also from other computers within the network, I don't seem to be able to receive any email sent to my domain. When I try to email my domain externally I get: The message could not be sent because one of the recipients was rejected by the server. The rejected email-mail address was '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'. Subject 'test', Account: 'blah', Server: 'mail.bigpond.com', Protocol: SMTP, Server Response: '550 Invalid recipient: [EMAIL PROTECTED]', Port: 25, Secure(SSL): No, Server Error: 550, Error Number: 0x800CCC79 I recently registered a fixed IP and domain name with my ISP to run my own website from home using a server running Sarge stable. I have installed the standard web mail server options from the Debian vanilla installation disk and everything else seems to be running correctly: My domain name resolves via http to '/var/www/' and I can ssh to the machine externally using the domain name but external emails get rejected. Also the logs in '/var/log/exim4/' don not show any external successful or rejected message attempts sent to the server. Does this mean that my email traffic is being diverted by my ISP's mail servers but all other traffic is being let through or have I just got a setting wrong in the exim-config? My 'update-exim4.conf.conf' document has these parameters set: dc_eximconfig_configtype='internet' dc_other_hostnames='blah.com.au dc_local_interfaces='' dc_readhost='' dc_relay_domains='' dc_minimaldns='false' dc_relay_nets='10.0.0.0/8' dc_smarthost='blah.com.au' CFILEMODE='644' dc_use_split_config='false' dc_hide_mailname='false' dc_mailname_in_oh='true' Could someone out there please point me in the direction of a solution? Just a shot in the dark. If exim4 is set to listen to 127.0.0.1 it will only accept connections from localhost, no one outside of localhost will be able to connect. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
- Original Message - From: Steve Kemp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian list debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 11:47 PM Subject: Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails ... no server error, and the fact that you later say you see nothing in your exim4 logs make me wonder if you've setup MX records for your domain to point to the IP address of your server? Steve -- Hi Steve, Thanks for the reply. As I said I'm fairly new to system administration so I'm not sure what an MX record is. I do know that the administration of my domain name is handled by my ISP (bigpond.com) and they are the ones that redirect traffic from my domain to my IP address. This seems to work for SSH and HTTP traffic but not email. I'm guessing that they are redirecting my email to their network and they are rejecting the messages because Bigpond's mail servers would have no record of my local email users. Does this sound possible? -Duncan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
From: Alan Ianson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 12:26 AM Subject: Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails ... Just a shot in the dark. If exim4 is set to listen to 127.0.0.1 it will only accept connections from localhost, no one outside of localhost will be able to connect. Hi Alan, Thanks for the reply. I actually set the 'listening' addresses option to blank. I believe this means that my server should be listening on all available network addresses shouldn't it? -Duncan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 12:54:44AM +1100, Duncan McDonald wrote: I actually set the 'listening' addresses option to blank. I believe this means that my server should be listening on all available network addresses shouldn't it? Yes, and you can verify this using lsof -ni:25 | grep LISTEN, which should show one match per interface. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 12:47:15PM +, Steve Kemp wrote: no server error, and the fact that you later say you see nothing in your exim4 logs make me wonder if you've setup MX records for your domain to point to the IP address of your server? In the absence of MX records, mailers should use the A record for a domain, but I don't know how many MTAs actually do this anymore. But if the domain was parked whilst being setup, it might be that the MX points at a parking host. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 12:52:01AM +1100, Duncan McDonald wrote: As I said I'm fairly new to system administration so I'm not sure what an MX record is. Domains are mapped to IP addresses via DNS records. DNS records come in a variety of types: the most common being the 'A' record, which specifies an address. But there's also the MX record, which specifies a host that is responsible for receiving mail for the domain in question. So, some examples [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ dig +short alcopop.org mx 10 alcopop.org. 20 despayre.org. That means if you want to send mail to my domain alcopop.org, you should try to connect to host alcopop.org, and failing that, despayre.org as a backup. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ dig +short greenmars.org mx 0 smtp.secureserver.net. 10 mailstore1.secureserver.net. Here, if you want to mail greenmars.org, you should connect to smtp.secureserver.net. This is because I have the greenmars.org domain parked. Mail to this domain will not reach me. If your domain's MX record doesn't point at your server, you will need to get your ISP to update the DNS. -- Jon Dowland -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
A useful function is # dpkg-reconfigure exim4-config Regards Clive -- www.clivemenzies.co.uk ... ...strategies for business -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
On Wed January 10 2007 05:54, Duncan McDonald wrote: From: Alan Ianson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 12:26 AM Subject: Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails ... Just a shot in the dark. If exim4 is set to listen to 127.0.0.1 it will only accept connections from localhost, no one outside of localhost will be able to connect. Hi Alan, Thanks for the reply. I actually set the 'listening' addresses option to blank. I believe this means that my server should be listening on all available network addresses shouldn't it? Yes, that is the way mine is set to and it works. Have you tried telneting to port 25 and see what kind of reply you get? telnet myip.address.com 25 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 02:06:20PM +, Jon Dowland wrote: On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 12:52:01AM +1100, Duncan McDonald wrote: As I said I'm fairly new to system administration so I'm not sure what an MX record is. Domains are mapped to IP addresses via DNS records. DNS records come in a variety of types: the most common being the 'A' record, which specifies an address. But there's also the MX record, which specifies a host that is responsible for receiving mail for the domain in question. So, some examples [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ dig +short alcopop.org mx 10 alcopop.org. 20 despayre.org. That means if you want to send mail to my domain alcopop.org, you should try to connect to host alcopop.org, and failing that, despayre.org as a backup. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ dig +short greenmars.org mx 0 smtp.secureserver.net. 10 mailstore1.secureserver.net. Here, if you want to mail greenmars.org, you should connect to smtp.secureserver.net. This is because I have the greenmars.org domain parked. Mail to this domain will not reach me. okay, so I had to try this to learn and [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ dig +short bigpond.com mx 10 extmail.bigpond.com. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ping www.bigpond.com PING www.bigpond.com (144.135.18.32) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 144.135.18.32: icmp_seq=1 ttl=233 time=212 ms cool, but... [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ping extmail.bigpond.com PING extmail.bigpond.com (144.140.80.13) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from extmail.bigpond.com (144.140.80.13): icmp_seq=1 ttl=234 time=364 ms that's a different IP. looks to me like the MX record is wrong. Am I doing that right? A signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
On Wed, Jan 10, 2007 at 08:33:04 -0800, Andrew Sackville-West wrote: [ snip: Jon Dowland's nice mini-tutorial about dig and MX records ] okay, so I had to try this to learn and [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ dig +short bigpond.com mx 10 extmail.bigpond.com. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ping www.bigpond.com PING www.bigpond.com (144.135.18.32) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 144.135.18.32: icmp_seq=1 ttl=233 time=212 ms cool, but... [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ping extmail.bigpond.com PING extmail.bigpond.com (144.140.80.13) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from extmail.bigpond.com (144.140.80.13): icmp_seq=1 ttl=234 time=364 ms that's a different IP. looks to me like the MX record is wrong. Am I doing that right? I think you should send yourself a test email via bigpond and check the header for the appropriate IP address in the Received: field(s). It is not unusual that the web server's IP is different from the one of the mail server. Also, additional authorized mail servers can be specified with an spf entry (http://www.openspf.org/SPF_Record_Syntax) in the TXT field: $ dig +short bigpond.com txt v=spf1 ip4:144.140.81.0/24 ip4:144.140.82.0/23 ip4:144.140.91.0/24 ip4:144.140.92.0/23 ?all -- Regards, Florian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
- Original Message - From: Andrew Sackville-West [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 3:33 AM Subject: Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails okay, so I had to try this to learn and [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ dig +short bigpond.com mx 10 extmail.bigpond.com. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ping www.bigpond.com PING www.bigpond.com (144.135.18.32) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 144.135.18.32: icmp_seq=1 ttl=233 time=212 ms cool, but... [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ping extmail.bigpond.com PING extmail.bigpond.com (144.140.80.13) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from extmail.bigpond.com (144.140.80.13): icmp_seq=1 ttl=234 time=364 ms that's a different IP. looks to me like the MX record is wrong. Am I doing that right? A Hi Andrew, Bigpond.com isn't my site, it's the ISP that I have registered my domain name with (ie encomium.com.au) and it seems to resolve fine via http, ssh and ping. Any email to user@encomium.com.au however gets the 'No server' message. All I'm really trying to figure out is whether my mail server settings are wrong or whether my ISP is redirecting my email traffic to force me to purchase extra mailboxes on their servers. Is it possible for a DNS provider to redirect traffic to a domain on a particular port (ie 25 and 110)? Also if they are redirecting my mail to an account on their servers, say [EMAIL PROTECTED], would it be possible to set this account up as the primary mail repository? That is, if all email traffic for my site was directed into this account, would it be possible to set my server up to download the messages via POP, sort them by username, then forward them to the respective recipients? -Duncan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
On Wed January 10 2007 09:37, Duncan McDonald wrote: - Original Message - From: Andrew Sackville-West [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 3:33 AM Subject: Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails okay, so I had to try this to learn and [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ dig +short bigpond.com mx 10 extmail.bigpond.com. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ping www.bigpond.com PING www.bigpond.com (144.135.18.32) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 144.135.18.32: icmp_seq=1 ttl=233 time=212 ms cool, but... [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ping extmail.bigpond.com PING extmail.bigpond.com (144.140.80.13) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from extmail.bigpond.com (144.140.80.13): icmp_seq=1 ttl=234 time=364 ms that's a different IP. looks to me like the MX record is wrong. Am I doing that right? A Hi Andrew, Bigpond.com isn't my site, it's the ISP that I have registered my domain name with (ie encomium.com.au) and it seems to resolve fine via http, ssh and ping. Any email to user@encomium.com.au however gets the 'No server' message. All I'm really trying to figure out is whether my mail server settings are wrong or whether my ISP is redirecting my email traffic to force me to purchase extra mailboxes on their servers. Is it possible for a DNS provider to redirect traffic to a domain on a particular port (ie 25 and 110)? Also if they are redirecting my mail to an account on their servers, say [EMAIL PROTECTED], would it be possible to set this account up as the primary mail repository? That is, if all email traffic for my site was directed into this account, would it be possible to set my server up to download the messages via POP, sort them by username, then forward them to the respective recipients? It was a common practice in my area that ISP's would block ports like 25 so you couldn't run servers on a home account, or to prevent spam from originating on their IP block. I don't think that is the case now but that is something you may want to check. Telneting into your mail server on port 25 may give you clues as to what is happening when an outside server tries to connect to your host. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
- Original Message - From: Alan Ianson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 4:49 AM Subject: Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails ... It was a common practice in my area that ISP's would block ports like 25 so you couldn't run servers on a home account, or to prevent spam from originating on their IP block. I don't think that is the case now but that is something you may want to check. Telneting into your mail server on port 25 may give you clues as to what is happening when an outside server tries to connect to your host. I get this when I try to telnet to port 25 remotely: ~$ telnet encomium.com.au 25 220 host.encomium.com.au ESMTP Exim 4.50 Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:14:53 +1100 -Duncan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 04:37:55AM +1100, Duncan McDonald wrote: - Original Message - From: Andrew Sackville-West [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 3:33 AM Subject: Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails okay, so I had to try this to learn and [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ dig +short bigpond.com mx 10 extmail.bigpond.com. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ping www.bigpond.com PING www.bigpond.com (144.135.18.32) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 144.135.18.32: icmp_seq=1 ttl=233 time=212 ms cool, but... [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ping extmail.bigpond.com PING extmail.bigpond.com (144.140.80.13) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from extmail.bigpond.com (144.140.80.13): icmp_seq=1 ttl=234 time=364 ms that's a different IP. looks to me like the MX record is wrong. Am I doing that right? A Hi Andrew, Bigpond.com isn't my site, it's the ISP that I have registered my domain name with (ie encomium.com.au) and it seems to resolve fine via http, ssh and ping. well, I learned something anyway :) A signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 05:19:46AM +1100, Duncan McDonald wrote: - Original Message - From: Alan Ianson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 4:49 AM Subject: Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails ... It was a common practice in my area that ISP's would block ports like 25 so you couldn't run servers on a home account, or to prevent spam from originating on their IP block. I don't think that is the case now but that is something you may want to check. Telneting into your mail server on port 25 may give you clues as to what is happening when an outside server tries to connect to your host. I get this when I try to telnet to port 25 remotely: ~$ telnet encomium.com.au 25 220 host.encomium.com.au ESMTP Exim 4.50 Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:14:53 +1100 so you can get to the machine, i.e. the port is not blocked. can you manually mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] from that telnet session? check http://www.yuki-onna.co.uk/email/smtp.html for info on this. A signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
On Wed January 10 2007 10:19, Duncan McDonald wrote: - Original Message - From: Alan Ianson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 4:49 AM Subject: Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails ... It was a common practice in my area that ISP's would block ports like 25 so you couldn't run servers on a home account, or to prevent spam from originating on their IP block. I don't think that is the case now but that is something you may want to check. Telneting into your mail server on port 25 may give you clues as to what is happening when an outside server tries to connect to your host. I get this when I try to telnet to port 25 remotely: ~$ telnet encomium.com.au 25 220 host.encomium.com.au ESMTP Exim 4.50 Thu, 11 Jan 2007 05:14:53 +1100 -Duncan That looks good, exim is waiting to do what it's told. I'd have a good look at exim's setup and make sure exim knows that mail for that domain should be accepted. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
- Original Message - From: Andrew Sackville-West [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 5:31 AM Subject: Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails so you can get to the machine, i.e. the port is not blocked. can you manually mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] from that telnet session? check http://www.yuki-onna.co.uk/email/smtp.html for info on this. A Thanks for the link. Yes I successfully sent a remote email to the domain via telnet on port 25. Although when I try connect to the POP port (110), I get a 'connection refused' message. Shouldn't I be able to connect to either port via telnet? -Duncan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
On Wed January 10 2007 11:00, Duncan McDonald wrote: - Original Message - From: Andrew Sackville-West [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 5:31 AM Subject: Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails so you can get to the machine, i.e. the port is not blocked. can you manually mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] from that telnet session? check http://www.yuki-onna.co.uk/email/smtp.html for info on this. A Thanks for the link. Yes I successfully sent a remote email to the domain via telnet on port 25. Although when I try connect to the POP port (110), I get a 'connection refused' message. Shouldn't I be able to connect to either port via telnet? Exim is only an MTA that uses port 25. If you want pop access you'll need to install a pop(3) daemon. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 06:00:10 +1100 Duncan McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Andrew Sackville-West [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 5:31 AM Subject: Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails so you can get to the machine, i.e. the port is not blocked. can you manually mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] from that telnet session? check http://www.yuki-onna.co.uk/email/smtp.html for info on this. A Thanks for the link. Yes I successfully sent a remote email to the domain via telnet on port 25. Although when I try connect to the POP port (110), I get a 'connection refused' message. Shouldn't I be able to connect to either port via telnet? Why? Do you have a pop server too? Regards, Andrei -- If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. (Albert Einstein) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
- Original Message - From: Andrei Popescu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 6:16 AM Subject: Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 06:00:10 +1100 Duncan McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Andrew Sackville-West [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 5:31 AM Subject: Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails so you can get to the machine, i.e. the port is not blocked. can you manually mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] from that telnet session? check http://www.yuki-onna.co.uk/email/smtp.html for info on this. A Thanks for the link. Yes I successfully sent a remote email to the domain via telnet on port 25. Although when I try connect to the POP port (110), I get a 'connection refused' message. Shouldn't I be able to connect to either port via telnet? Why? Do you have a pop server too? No I was just asking. I'm just trying to figure out why I can send email from my server and manually to it via telnet, but all other messages from mail clients get rejected... -Duncan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 06:00:10AM +1100, Duncan McDonald wrote: - Original Message - From: Andrew Sackville-West [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 5:31 AM Subject: Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails so you can get to the machine, i.e. the port is not blocked. can you manually mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] from that telnet session? check http://www.yuki-onna.co.uk/email/smtp.html for info on this. A Thanks for the link. Yes I successfully sent a remote email to the domain via telnet on port 25. Although when I try connect to the POP port (110), I get a 'connection refused' message. can you see that email transaction in the exim logs? IOW, was this manual smtp session actually going to your machine? A signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 07:21:09AM +1100, Duncan McDonald wrote: From: Andrei Popescu [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 06:00:10 +1100 Duncan McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Andrew Sackville-West [EMAIL PROTECTED] so you can get to the machine, i.e. the port is not blocked. can you manually mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] from that telnet session? check http://www.yuki-onna.co.uk/email/smtp.html for info on this. Yes I successfully sent a remote email to the domain via telnet on port 25. Although when I try connect to the POP port (110), I get a 'connection refused' message. Shouldn't I be able to connect to either port via telnet? Why? Do you have a pop server too? No I was just asking. I'm just trying to figure out why I can send email from my server and manually to it via telnet, but all other messages from mail clients get rejected... did you do this telnet from the server? or from a remote machine? if you did it from the server, it will, of course, connect. again, can you see the email you manually sent? does it show in the exim logs? /var/log/exim4/mainlog A signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails
- Original Message - From: Andrew Sackville-West [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-user@lists.debian.org Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:10 AM Subject: Re: Newbie question: Exim - trouble receiving incoming emails No I was just asking. I'm just trying to figure out why I can send email from my server and manually to it via telnet, but all other messages from mail clients get rejected... did you do this telnet from the server? or from a remote machine? if you did it from the server, it will, of course, connect. again, can you see the email you manually sent? does it show in the exim logs? /var/log/exim4/mainlog Yes I was emailing from remote machines. I tested sending directly from the remote server and from secondary mail clients that used the remote server. Strangely all the messages are coming through now and I have no idea why. I wonder if my ISP updated its DNS info while I've been fiddling with my server, or have I just hit a magic button? :-) Anyway it seems to be working now so thanks to you ( and the others ) for helping me troubleshoot this. Cheers, -Duncan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: newbie question -- Using Bootlog, Startup Messages, Console
[ apologies for the long time since replying ] Miles Fidelman wrote: Willie Wonka wrote: Mumia W. wrote: AFAIK, that's not the way you enable boot-logging. Just edit /etc/default/bootlogd. It did not take affect after a warm (re)boot -- so I'll try your suggestion - but why wouldn't the man page say how to enable it? Or where should I look for that kind of info instead? Worked for me after a reboot. I see - I think -- what worked? My method (sbin/bootlogd) ...or Mumia's method listed above. I had stated that _my_ method did *not* take effect after a warm boot. I'll echo the question about where to find that out other than a helpful reply on this list. Florian does pretty good in answering that ...I think Thanks Regards __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: newbie question -- Using Bootlog, Startup Messages, Console
Florian Kulzer wrote: I'll echo the question about where to find that out other than a helpful reply on this list. A manpage does not always include specific info about how things are set up in Debian, unfortunately. (You can file a wishlist bug asking the package maintainer to include a brief statement about where to find the configuration files.) In such cases it often helps to look for all system files with a suspicious name; so you would try dpkg -S bootlogd Then you can have a look at the files which are reported. This command will also tell you which package contains bootlogd, so you can run dpkg -L initscripts to find out where other important information might be. (Often it is in the /usr/share/doc/packagename directory.) Thanks for the enlightening info ... here's what I've done so far to obtain a Bootlog (/var/log/boot) and then subsequently that gets moved to boot.0, boot.1 and so on...as a new one /var/log/boot gets created -- and the older ones moved down a notch. I did what Mumia suggested -- here's my /etc/default/bootlogd file now; --- $ cat /etc/default/bootlogd # Run bootlogd at startup ? BOOTLOGD_ENABLE=Yes --- It *seems* to possibly needed a few boots to kick in (atleast for me it did) .. I have also now used 'tune2fs' to Enable a fsck (/sbin/fsck.ext3) at every 3rd mount - rather than the default of every 30(?) mounts. IIRC, I did 'tune2fs c3 C3' I can't exactly pinpoint which one (syntax) actually took effect correctly, but the Bootlog file (/var/log/boot) shows me the actual events that occurred (as it should) and tells one where to look for other info concerning those events and their respective logfiles. Ex: From Bootlog we see; -- ~$ sudo cat /var/log/boot Tue Jul 25 12:12:43 2006: Done checking root file system. Tue Jul 25 12:12:43 2006: A log will be saved in /var/log/fsck/checkroot if that location is writable. . -- So then I do; -- $ sudo cat /var/log/fsck/checkroot Log of fsck -C -a -V -t ext3 /dev/hdc1 Tue Jul 25 12:12:42 2006 fsck 1.37 (21-Mar-2005) [/sbin/fsck.ext3 (1) -- /] fsck.ext3 -a -C0 /dev/hdc1 /: clean, 150213/1062880 files, 1280289/2124588 blocks (check in 2 mounts) And then i do; - ~$ sudo cat /var/log/fsck/checkfs 'Log of fsck -C -V -R -A -a Tue Jul 25 16:12:45 2006 fsck 1.37 (21-Mar-2005) Checking all file systems. Tue Jul 25 16:12:45 2006 -- I'd say that's pretty darn sweet ;-) Thanks to all: for your help and guidance -- I hope the OP finds this info useful as well... Regards __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: newbie question -- Using Bootlog, Startup Messages, Console
Ooops. I guess I wasn't as clear as I could have been. Editing /etc/default/bootlod to set BOOTLOGD_ENABLE=yes Works like a charm. Miles Willie Wonka wrote: [ apologies for the long time since replying ] Miles Fidelman wrote: Willie Wonka wrote: Mumia W. wrote: AFAIK, that's not the way you enable boot-logging. Just edit /etc/default/bootlogd. It did not take affect after a warm (re)boot -- so I'll try your suggestion - but why wouldn't the man page say how to enable it? Or where should I look for that kind of info instead? Worked for me after a reboot. I see - I think -- what worked? My method (sbin/bootlogd) ...or Mumia's method listed above. I had stated that _my_ method did *not* take effect after a warm boot. I'll echo the question about where to find that out other than a helpful reply on this list. Florian does pretty good in answering that ...I think Thanks Regards __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: newbie question -- Using Bootlog, Startup Messages, Console
Miles Fidelman wrote: Ooops. I guess I wasn't as clear as I could have been. Editing /etc/default/bootlod to set BOOTLOGD_ENABLE=yes Works like a charm. Miles Thanks for clarifying that for me ;-) Regards __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: newbie question -- Using Bootlog, Startup Messages, Console
Willie Wonka wrote: Mumia W. wrote: AFAIK, that's not the way you enable boot-logging. Just edit /etc/default/bootlogd. It did not take affect after a warm (re)boot -- so I'll try your suggestion - but why wouldn't the man page say how to enable it? Or where should I look for that kind of info instead? Worked for me after a reboot. I'll echo the question about where to find that out other than a helpful reply on this list. Miles -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: newbie question -- Using Bootlog, Startup Messages, Console
On Sat, Jul 22, 2006 at 15:15:40 -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote: Willie Wonka wrote: Mumia W. wrote: AFAIK, that's not the way you enable boot-logging. Just edit /etc/default/bootlogd. It did not take affect after a warm (re)boot -- so I'll try your suggestion - but why wouldn't the man page say how to enable it? Or where should I look for that kind of info instead? Worked for me after a reboot. I'll echo the question about where to find that out other than a helpful reply on this list. A manpage does not always include specific info about how things are set up in Debian, unfortunately. (You can file a wishlist bug asking the package maintainer to include a brief statement about where to find the configuration files.) In such cases it often helps to look for all system files with a suspicious name; so you would try dpkg -S bootlogd Then you can have a look at the files which are reported. This command will also tell you which package contains bootlogd, so you can run dpkg -L initscripts to find out where other important information might be. (Often it is in the /usr/share/doc/packagename directory.) -- Regards, Florian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: newbie question
Wulfy wrote: Miles Fidelman wrote: Gabriel Parrondo wrote: El jue, 20-07-2006 a las 22:09 -0400, Miles Fidelman escribió: and it turns out that it sure looks like the messages I'm trying to capture are generated too early in the startup process to hit the log files - guess I have to connect my laptop to the serial port and capture the console traffic If all you need is watch at the messages at boot-time, then you could press the Scroll Lock key, which will pause the boot process and give you some time to read, then you can scroll with Shift+PageUp or Shift+PageDown. When you're done you press Scroll Lock again and the process goes on. Yeah, but that's too easy :-) Besides, it's nice to have a record. Cheers, Miles man bootlogd it's part of the sysvinit package... :) seems to be installed and running, but I think some of the messages I'm looking for get generated before bootlogd gets started I think it's back to capturing the console traffic directly thanks, Miles -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: newbie question -- Using Bootlog, Startup Messages, Console
Gabriel Parrondo wrote: El jue, 20-07-2006 a las 22:09 -0400, Miles Fidelman escribió: and it turns out that it sure looks like the messages I'm trying to capture are generated too early in the startup process to hit the log files - guess I have to connect my laptop to the serial port and capture the console traffic If all you need is watch at the messages at boot-time, then you could press the Scroll Lock key, which will pause the boot process and give you some time to read, then you can scroll with Shift+PageUp or Shift+PageDown. When you're done you press Scroll Lock again and the process goes on. [ Altered the Subject Line to better reflect the Topic ] Excellent! ;-) I knew about the Shift+PageUp/Down, but had forgotten about the Scroll lock key... Kind Regards __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: newbie question -- Using Bootlog, Startup Messages, Console
Miles Fidelman wrote: Wulfy wrote: Miles Fidelman wrote: Gabriel Parrondo wrote: El jue, 20-07-2006 a las 22:09 -0400, Miles Fidelman escribió: and it turns out that it sure looks like the messages I'm trying to capture are generated too early in the startup process to hit the log files - guess I have to connect my laptop to the serial port and capture the console traffic If all you need is watch at the messages at boot-time, then you could press the Scroll Lock key, which will pause the boot process and give you some time to read, then you can scroll with Shift+PageUp or Shift+PageDown. When you're done you press Scroll Lock again and the process goes on. Yeah, but that's too easy :-) Besides, it's nice to have a record. Cheers, Miles man bootlogd it's part of the sysvinit package... :) seems to be installed and running, but I think some of the messages I'm looking for get generated before bootlogd gets started I think it's back to capturing the console traffic directly thanks, Miles Have you read the BUGs section in - /usr/share/man/man8/bootlogd.8.gz ?? === [...] BUGS Bootlogd works by redirecting the console output from the console device. (Consequently bootlogd requires PTY support in the kernel configuration.) It copies that output to the real console device and to a log file. There is no standard way of ascertaining the real console device if you have a new-style /dev/console device (major 5, minor 1) so bootlogd parses the kernel command line looking for console=... lines and deduces the real console device from that. If that syntax is ever changed by the kernel, or a console type is used that bootlogd does not know about then bootlogd will not work. = So ...Consequently, use 'grep' to (parse) find out if your kernel is configured; (substitute/insert _your_ exact config file name in place of mine - the '*' is just a wildcard); ~$ grep PTY /boot/config-2.6.8-3* CONFIG_UNIX98_PTYS=y CONFIG_LEGACY_PTYS=y CONFIG_LEGACY_PTY_COUNT=256 I notice you're getting a lot of help for your _initial_ problem over in your other thread here in d-u, entitled; new installation not finding large memory. I wish only to document _this_relevant_ info about *Bootlog* (bootlogd) for archive seeekers and lurkers ;-) ..plus I learned something new doing the research and from Gabriel Parrondo's and Wulfy's replies. Pertaining to the (2nd half) of the BUGs info above: (device/console) - I'm uncertain about whether or not I fall into that category -- I'll have to look into that as well. Regards __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: newbie question -- Using Bootlog, Startup Messages, Console
Wulfy wrote: man bootlogd it's part of the sysvinit package... :) [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ dpkg -S bootlogd sysvinit: /sbin/bootlogd initscripts: /etc/init.d/bootlogd initscripts: /etc/init.d/stop-bootlogd initscripts: /etc/default/bootlogd sysvinit: /usr/share/man/man8/bootlogd.8.gz [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ apt-cache policy sysvinit sysvinit: Installed: 2.86.ds1-1 Candidate: 2.86.ds1-1 Version table: *** 2.86.ds1-1 0 500 cdrom://[Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 r1 _Sarge_ - Official i386 Binary-1 (20051220)] sarge/main Packages 500 http://ftp.uk.debian.org stable/main Packages 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status hope this helps Hi; It certainly helps me ;-) To follow-up on my attempt to get bootlogd working; When trying to use KDE's Konsole and 'sudo' to enable bootlog -- here's the result; ~$ cd /var/log :/var/log$ less boot boot: Permission denied $ sudo less boot which then shows me no log has been created yet -- so I try; $ sudo /sbin/bootlogd -lps bootlogd: cannot find console device 136:2 in /dev So now I'm searching for 136:2 and have no idea why it's looking for that, and the /dev dir is HUGE ;-0 So I drop to a VT/VC (ctrl-alt-f2) and login as root; then rerun above command '/sbin/bootlogd -lps' and it *seems* to have taken affect -- but i guess i won't know for sure until I reboot...well here goes ;-) Regards __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: newbie question -- Using Bootlog, Startup Messages, Console
On 07/21/2006 09:31 AM, Willie Wonka wrote: [...] So I drop to a VT/VC (ctrl-alt-f2) and login as root; then rerun above command '/sbin/bootlogd -lps' and it *seems* to have taken affect -- but i guess i won't know for sure until I reboot...well here goes ;-) Regards AFAIK, that's not the way you enable boot-logging. Just edit /etc/default/bootlogd. Good luck. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: newbie question -- Using Bootlog, Startup Messages, Console
Mumia W. wrote: AFAIK, that's not the way you enable boot-logging. Just edit /etc/default/bootlogd. It did not take affect after a warm (re)boot -- so I'll try your suggestion - but why wouldn't the man page say how to enable it? Or where should I look for that kind of info instead? I'm _way_ too tired from my daily grind (day job) to follow up further just now...but will return at some point ;-) Thanks. Regards __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: newbie question
El jue, 20-07-2006 a las 17:01 -0400, Miles Fidelman escribió: Are there some settings that control what's logged at boot time? Hope this helps: man syslog.conf man sysklogd Cheers. PS: next time it would be better that you read the documentation and google for a while before you ask. Some people get annoyed when people asks without searching. Besides, you can learn a lot while searching what you need ;) -- Gabriel Parrondo GNU/Linux User #404138 GnuPG Public Key ID: BED7BF43 The only difference between theory and practice is that, in theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. signature.asc Description: Esta parte del mensaje está firmada digitalmente
Re: newbie question
Gabriel Parrondo wrote: El jue, 20-07-2006 a las 17:01 -0400, Miles Fidelman escribió: Are there some settings that control what's logged at boot time? Hope this helps: man syslog.conf man sysklogd Cheers. PS: next time it would be better that you read the documentation and google for a while before you ask. Some people get annoyed when people asks without searching. Besides, you can learn a lot while searching what you need ;) understood.. and it turns out that it sure looks like the messages I'm trying to capture are generated too early in the startup process to hit the log files - guess I have to connect my laptop to the serial port and capture the console traffic Thanks, Miles -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: newbie question
El jue, 20-07-2006 a las 22:09 -0400, Miles Fidelman escribió: and it turns out that it sure looks like the messages I'm trying to capture are generated too early in the startup process to hit the log files - guess I have to connect my laptop to the serial port and capture the console traffic If all you need is watch at the messages at boot-time, then you could press the Scroll Lock key, which will pause the boot process and give you some time to read, then you can scroll with Shift+PageUp or Shift+PageDown. When you're done you press Scroll Lock again and the process goes on. Cheers. -- Gabriel Parrondo GNU/Linux User #404138 GnuPG Public Key ID: BED7BF43 The only difference between theory and practice is that, in theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. signature.asc Description: Esta parte del mensaje está firmada digitalmente
Re: newbie question
Gabriel Parrondo wrote: El jue, 20-07-2006 a las 22:09 -0400, Miles Fidelman escribió: and it turns out that it sure looks like the messages I'm trying to capture are generated too early in the startup process to hit the log files - guess I have to connect my laptop to the serial port and capture the console traffic If all you need is watch at the messages at boot-time, then you could press the Scroll Lock key, which will pause the boot process and give you some time to read, then you can scroll with Shift+PageUp or Shift+PageDown. When you're done you press Scroll Lock again and the process goes on. Yeah, but that's too easy :-) Besides, it's nice to have a record. Cheers, Miles -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: newbie question
Miles Fidelman wrote: Gabriel Parrondo wrote: El jue, 20-07-2006 a las 22:09 -0400, Miles Fidelman escribió: and it turns out that it sure looks like the messages I'm trying to capture are generated too early in the startup process to hit the log files - guess I have to connect my laptop to the serial port and capture the console traffic If all you need is watch at the messages at boot-time, then you could press the Scroll Lock key, which will pause the boot process and give you some time to read, then you can scroll with Shift+PageUp or Shift+PageDown. When you're done you press Scroll Lock again and the process goes on. Yeah, but that's too easy :-) Besides, it's nice to have a record. Cheers, Miles man bootlogd it's part of the sysvinit package... :) [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ dpkg -S bootlogd sysvinit: /sbin/bootlogd initscripts: /etc/init.d/bootlogd initscripts: /etc/init.d/stop-bootlogd initscripts: /etc/default/bootlogd sysvinit: /usr/share/man/man8/bootlogd.8.gz [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ apt-cache policy sysvinit sysvinit: Installed: 2.86.ds1-1 Candidate: 2.86.ds1-1 Version table: *** 2.86.ds1-1 0 500 cdrom://[Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 r1 _Sarge_ - Official i386 Binary-1 (20051220)] sarge/main Packages 500 http://ftp.uk.debian.org stable/main Packages 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status hope this helps -- Blessings Wulfmann Wulf Credo: Respect the elders. Teach the young. Co-operate with the pack. Play when you can. Hunt when you must. Rest in between. Share your affections. Voice your opinion. Leave your Mark. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: newbie question on finding and keeping customized files with dpkg or apt
Marco Prandini wrote: Hello, I'm switching to Debian after a long time on RedHat, and I haven't been able to find a couple of functions of the package manager I'd like to use... hoping they exist at all! 1) I'd like to find which files of a package have been altered with respect to the original version, in the same way I did with rpm -V. 2) I'd like to instruct apt-get upgrade to leave them alone That's because I didn't resist the urge to make some customization to my system, and I don't want them to be overwritten by the upgrade procedure. Thanks a lot! Marco 1. In Synaptic, packages that have an upgrade available (after updating sources) are marked with a special symbol. You could install the package wajig (see article rpm to apt-get/dpkg http://xtronics.com/reference/rpm2apt-dpkg.htm). Eg if package swig is on hold and a newer version is available, wajig toupgrade gives this output: # wajig toupgrade Package AvailableInstalled - swig 1.3.28-1 1.3.24-1 # 2. According to the Debian Reference Manual http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/ch-package.en.html you can hold eg packages |libc6| and |libc6-dev using | # echo -e libc6 hold\nlibc6-dev hold | dpkg --set-selections or in Aptitude using the '=' key. In Synaptic you can highlight a package and use Package - Lock Version. Also, wajig hold package-name(s). Hth Chris. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
