Re: Battery drain with poweroff
Alexander V. Makartsev (12021-02-08): > I think fastest and easiest way is to swap current disk with another (if it > is available of course) and install Evaluation version of Windows 10 > Enterprise. [1] Unfortunately, switching the disk is not an option. Booting from a SD card could work, but I do not know windows enough to test. > Another viable option, because you've got a drive image of preinstalled > Windows 10, is to save an image of current drive and restore from the image > with preinstalled Windows OS. This I can do, but I would like to avoid if possible, because of the time and wear. Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Battery drain with poweroff
On 08.02.2021 18:04, Marko Randjelovic wrote: Hi all, On Mon, 8 Feb 2021 13:26:12 +0100 Nicolas George wrote: Now I need a way to apply it; apparently I need some way to boot Windows. I hope I will not need to overwrite the complete drive with the backup image I made. There is a program named 'flashrom' in Debian, but I don't know how reliable is it as BIOS flash is quite a dangerous operation. I decided to risk several years ago on an AMD system with MSI motherboard and was successful. Regards, Marko It won't help in this case, because BIOS update from Acer is actually a package without plain binary ROM file. 'flashrom' could be used to backup original BIOS to file, before updating, but I doubt it is necessary. -- With kindest regards, Alexander. ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org ⠈⠳⣄
Re: Battery drain with poweroff
On 08.02.2021 17:26, Nicolas George wrote: Alexander V. Makartsev (12021-02-08): Probably something to do with USB-Charger feature. Acer got a BIOS update 1.09 [1] that claims to fix similar issue. I don't know what is your model exactly, so look up BIOS update for your laptop using SNID code. [1] https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/support-product/8273?b=1 Thanks, I never think of BIOS updates. This is the one for my exact model, and the title looks very promising. This is usually first procedure I do for new hardware, because products nowadays are rushed to the market, so internal firmware for all kinds of devices is often poorly tested. Now I need a way to apply it; apparently I need some way to boot Windows. I hope I will not need to overwrite the complete drive with the backup image I made. Regards, I think fastest and easiest way is to swap current disk with another (if it is available of course) and install Evaluation version of Windows 10 Enterprise. [1] This version doesn't require a product key or activation. Some BIOS\Firmware updates could be installed from WinPE (or WinRE) environment, but I doubt this one from Acer could run on WinPE, because it is bundled with a driver, along side with a few executable binaries and shared DLLs. Another viable option, because you've got a drive image of preinstalled Windows 10, is to save an image of current drive and restore from the image with preinstalled Windows OS. And after BIOS is updated, restore from the saved image with latest data. Clunky solutions, but I think there are no other options, because apparently Acer hates GNU-Linux. :\ [1] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-windows-10-enterprise -- With kindest regards, Alexander. ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org ⠈⠳⣄
Re: Battery drain with poweroff
Hi all, On Mon, 8 Feb 2021 13:26:12 +0100 Nicolas George wrote: > Now I need a way to apply it; apparently I need some way to boot > Windows. I hope I will not need to overwrite the complete drive with the > backup image I made. There is a program named 'flashrom' in Debian, but I don't know how reliable is it as BIOS flash is quite a dangerous operation. I decided to risk several years ago on an AMD system with MSI motherboard and was successful. Regards, Marko pgpbyinqH4rjU.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Battery drain with poweroff
Alexander V. Makartsev (12021-02-08): > Probably something to do with USB-Charger feature. > Acer got a BIOS update 1.09 [1] that claims to fix similar issue. > I don't know what is your model exactly, so look up BIOS update for your > laptop using SNID code. > > [1] https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/support-product/8273?b=1 Thanks, I never think of BIOS updates. This is the one for my exact model, and the title looks very promising. Now I need a way to apply it; apparently I need some way to boot Windows. I hope I will not need to overwrite the complete drive with the backup image I made. Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Battery drain with poweroff
On 08.02.2021 15:01, Nicolas George wrote: Hi. On my new Acer TravelMate Spin B3, running recent Bullseye, I have noticed a strange battery drain when the computer is powered off: it loses about 1% of the total battery charge every hour, which makes a quarter of the battery in a day. The drain happens when the computer has been powered down with poweroff or an equivalent. I have checked, and it does not happen if I power down with a long press on the power button (after halt). Therefore, it is a sign of something staying powered with the normal kernel shutdown. I have checked that wake-on-lan, wake-on-RTC-clock and similar features are disabled in the setup. Does anybody have an idea about what could be the culprit or how to investigate? Thanks in advance. Probably something to do with USB-Charger feature. Acer got a BIOS update 1.09 [1] that claims to fix similar issue. I don't know what is your model exactly, so look up BIOS update for your laptop using SNID code. [1] https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/support-product/8273?b=1 -- With kindest regards, Alexander. ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org ⠈⠳⣄
Re: Battery performance predictor
Darac == Darac Marjal mailingl...@darac.org.uk writes: There's a great utility called ibam which pays attention to the historical performance of your battery. The main benefit is if your The == The Wanderer wande...@fastmail.fm writes: Try ibam, and (if you use gkrellm) gkrellm-ibam. I've been using them on my laptop for a month or so now, and they seem like roughly what you're looking for. Thanks guys. I'm trying it out right now. Stefan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/jwvh9th56xr.fsf-monnier+gmane.linux.debian.u...@gnu.org
Re: Battery performance predictor
On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 11:55:06AM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: Is there a good utility out there to predict the remaining running/charging time of my battery? For the remaining runtime most of the utilities out there seem to just divide the remaining capacity by the current power usage, which doesn't account for the fact that the current power usage may not be representative of the longer-term average (e.g. my power usage may switch regularly between 6W while editing a file (i.e. mostly idle) and 15W while processing the result, neither of which is representative of the longer term average which may be something like 10W). So a good utility would need to monitor/learn your typical average usage, and remember it in some kind of file. For the remaining charge time the problem is fundamentally similar, tho details are quite different: - the charging rate changes over time (as the battery gets full, it charges more slowly). So dividing the missing charge by the current rate is not a good predictor (as is often done). - the charging rate may also depend on the computer's own power usage (e.g. the sum of the power's own use and the battery's charging use may be bound by the power adapter's max power output). - sometimes reaching 100% of charge takes a long time, but reaching (say) 90% is much faster. So for the remaining charge time I might like to have a more detailed info, telling me (for example): - how much time remains before I get to 90% while I keep using the machine - how much time remains before I get to 90% if I put it to sleep - how much time remains before I get to 100% while I keep using the machine - how much time remains before I get to 100% if I put it to sleep And again, this info usually can't be just computed from current data, it instead needs to be learned by monitoring the system's behavior over time. There's a great utility called ibam which pays attention to the historical performance of your battery. The main benefit is if your battery is dying and the last 10 or 20% only lasts a couple of minutes, then the adjusted runtime takes this into account. The package needs a bit of love (the best way to run it is to use the gkrellm plugin - see bug 260530) but it might suit you. Stefan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/jwvpp899chm.fsf-monnier+gmane.linux.debian.u...@gnu.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Battery performance predictor
On 03/16/2015 at 11:55 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote: Is there a good utility out there to predict the remaining running/charging time of my battery? For the remaining runtime most of the utilities out there seem to just divide the remaining capacity by the current power usage, which doesn't account for the fact that the current power usage may not be representative of the longer-term average (e.g. my power usage may switch regularly between 6W while editing a file (i.e. mostly idle) and 15W while processing the result, neither of which is representative of the longer term average which may be something like 10W). So a good utility would need to monitor/learn your typical average usage, and remember it in some kind of file. Try ibam, and (if you use gkrellm) gkrellm-ibam. I've been using them on my laptop for a month or so now, and they seem like roughly what you're looking for. If you don't use the krell, you may need to read the documentation in some detail and do manual configuration to get it checking your battery state on a regular basis (and thus building a meaningful usage/charge profile), but I believe it's doable. -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Battery level in Testing
Le 26/10/2013 12:02, Erwan David a écrit : Hello all Since yesterday my KDE from testing does not detect the battery level and acts as though it is zero (lenovo T530, it worked before). Windowd on the same laptop show 99%, thus the battery is not empty. What can I do to detect where the error comes from (KDE, ACPI, other ?) and correct this ? Because linux stops automatically when it is not plugged. acpitool gives correct batery level, it is a KDE problem. Do someone know against which package/kde component I should report a bug ? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/526be781.7060...@rail.eu.org
Re: Battery level in Testing
Le 26/10/2013 18:02, Erwan David a écrit : Le 26/10/2013 12:02, Erwan David a écrit : Hello all Since yesterday my KDE from testing does not detect the battery level and acts as though it is zero (lenovo T530, it worked before). Windowd on the same laptop show 99%, thus the battery is not empty. What can I do to detect where the error comes from (KDE, ACPI, other ?) and correct this ? Because linux stops automatically when it is not plugged. acpitool gives correct batery level, it is a KDE problem. Do someone know against which package/kde component I should report a bug ? Ok found, it was a upower bug corrected with the upower in Sid. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/526bec44.4000...@rail.eu.org
Re: battery
Darac Marjal wrote: Perhaps so, but if the charge isn't increasing, then that's basically full. Probably so. Batteries usually note three main values in their fuel gagues (a small chip in the battery): current charge, current maximum charge and designed maximum charge. The designed maximum charge is written at manufacture time and the current maximum charge is updated every so often. The ratio between current charge and current maximum charge give your your percentage full. The ratio between current maximum charge and designed maximum charge gives an indication of battery health (that is, if the battery was designed to hold 100Wh but now can only hold 20Wh, it's basically dead). Install 'acpitool' and then see what it says for your battery. Mine says this at this time. The information available will vary from vendor to vendor. Yours might have a different set of fields. rwp@dismay:~$ acpitool --battery Battery #1 : present Remaining capacity : 65260 mWh, 100.0% Design capacity: 71280 mWh Last full capacity : 65260 mWh, 91.55% of design capacity Capacity loss : 8.446% Present rate : 0 mW Charging state : Full Battery type : Li-ion Model number : 92P1137 Serial number : 772 You can also get this data from /proc and-or /sys but recent kernels have changed the locations so now I find it easier to use acpitool to dump this information. The battery above is in good shape and the last full capacity is 91% of the design capacity. But a worn out battery may report something down to 20% of capicity or worse. It is possible that the reporting on your battery is reporting the percentage of design capacity rather than the current capability. Resetting the fuel gauge varies from battery to battery, but the typical way is to drain the battery (so, take the charger out and run the laptop until it shuts down. DON'T try to over-drain the battery by starting it at this point), then charge the battery to full again I think it is a good idea to do this once a month. A battery used well will last longer. (plug back in, but don't start the laptop - let the battery charge at full rate until it's at 100%. You'll need to estimate how long this usually takes). The idea is that the fuel gauge monitors the increase in charge and, when the increase tapers off, that's your maximum charge. I think it is okay to plug it in and also start the laptop. I have always monitored the charging this way. But for the reset it is important to allow it to charge all of the way to full in one cycle. Don't try this too often, though. Deep discharges are also bad for Lithium Ion batteries. If in doubt, read the manual :) A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for. The same is true for laptop batteries. I use mine and that means I will cycle it. As long as I have gotten good use from something then I don't feel bad if I have eventually worn it out. Bob signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: battery
On 08/08/13 04:05, cletusjenkins wrote: I'm using wheezy and in gnome 3, if I disconnect my laptop from its charger and then at some point suspend. After bringing the system back up and connect the charger the battery charge indicator in gnome shows incorrect info. I plug in the charger and the battery charges, but it never reaches 100%, it stops at around usually in the 80's or 90's. The indicator shows the battery is charging no matter how long it is plugged in, but once the percentage stops increasing it will never go higher. This inaccuracy usually persists across reboots. I can shutdown, disconnect the charger, and remove the battery. The inaccuracy remains. At least once this process lead to a correct reading, but it hasn't worked recently. I'm not sure if this has gone on since I first got it or if this is a new thing. I noticed it about 3 months ago. This laptop is less than 6 months old, when disconnected from the charger the battery holds a charge for the same length it always has. Is there some file I can erase or some other procedure to reset the the indicator? It's a feature of modern laptops. The idea is that the battery lasts longer if you avoid full charge/discharge cycles. Mine is on 80% too - it's normal. As for how you tell it to charge to 100% because you're planning a bus trip - anyone out there, please let me know. Regards, Philip Ashmore -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/520356fd.1050...@philipashmore.com
Re: battery
On Thu, Aug 08, 2013 at 09:29:49AM +0100, Philip Ashmore wrote: On 08/08/13 04:05, cletusjenkins wrote: I'm using wheezy and in gnome 3, if I disconnect my laptop from its charger and then at some point suspend. After bringing the system back up and connect the charger the battery charge indicator in gnome shows incorrect info. I plug in the charger and the battery charges, but it never reaches 100%, it stops at around usually in the 80's or 90's. The indicator shows the battery is charging no matter how long it is plugged in, but once the percentage stops increasing it will never go higher. This inaccuracy usually persists across reboots. I can shutdown, disconnect the charger, and remove the battery. The inaccuracy remains. At least once this process lead to a correct reading, but it hasn't worked recently. I'm not sure if this has gone on since I first got it or if this is a new thing. I noticed it about 3 months ago. This laptop is less than 6 months old, when disconnected from the charger the battery holds a charge for the same length it always has. Is there some file I can erase or some other procedure to reset the the indicator? It's a feature of modern laptops. The idea is that the battery lasts longer if you avoid full charge/discharge cycles. Perhaps so, but if the charge isn't increasing, then that's basically full. Batteries usually note three main values in their fuel gagues (a small chip in the battery): current charge, current maximum charge and designed maximum charge. The designed maximum charge is written at manufacture time and the current maximum charge is updated every so often. The ratio between current charge and current maximum charge give your your percentage full. The ratio between current maximum charge and designed maximum charge gives an indication of battery health (that is, if the battery was designed to hold 100Wh but now can only hold 20Wh, it's basically dead). Resetting the fuel gauge varies from battery to battery, but the typical way is to drain the battery (so, take the charger out and run the laptop until it shuts down. DON'T try to over-drain the battery by starting it at this point), then charge the battery to full again (plug back in, but don't start the laptop - let the battery charge at full rate until it's at 100%. You'll need to estimate how long this usually takes). The idea is that the fuel gauge monitors the increase in charge and, when the increase tapers off, that's your maximum charge. Don't try this too often, though. Deep discharges are also bad for Lithium Ion batteries. If in doubt, read the manual :) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: battery
On 08/08/13 09:29, Philip Ashmore wrote: On 08/08/13 04:05, cletusjenkins wrote: I'm using wheezy and in gnome 3, if I disconnect my laptop from its charger and then at some point suspend. After bringing the system back up and connect the charger the battery charge indicator in gnome shows incorrect info. I plug in the charger and the battery charges, but it never reaches 100%, it stops at around usually in the 80's or 90's. The indicator shows the battery is charging no matter how long it is plugged in, but once the percentage stops increasing it will never go higher. This inaccuracy usually persists across reboots. I can shutdown, disconnect the charger, and remove the battery. The inaccuracy remains. At least once this process lead to a correct reading, but it hasn't worked recently. I'm not sure if this has gone on since I first got it or if this is a new thing. I noticed it about 3 months ago. This laptop is less than 6 months old, when disconnected from the charger the battery holds a charge for the same length it always has. Is there some file I can erase or some other procedure to reset the the indicator? [cut] I've noted similar behaviour in that I leave my machine connected to a mains supply after shut-down and the 80% charge seems to become a stable state, but after starting the system - Kubuntu in my case - the charge eventually reaches 100%, so it seems to be a function of the running/not running state of the m/c. Peter HB -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52038524@hbsys.plus.com
Re: battery
On 08/08/13 12:46, Peter Hillier-Brook wrote: On 08/08/13 09:29, Philip Ashmore wrote: On 08/08/13 04:05, cletusjenkins wrote: I'm using wheezy and in gnome 3, if I disconnect my laptop from its charger and then at some point suspend. After bringing the system back up and connect the charger the battery charge indicator in gnome shows incorrect info. I plug in the charger and the battery charges, but it never reaches 100%, it stops at around usually in the 80's or 90's. The indicator shows the battery is charging no matter how long it is plugged in, but once the percentage stops increasing it will never go higher. This inaccuracy usually persists across reboots. I can shutdown, disconnect the charger, and remove the battery. The inaccuracy remains. At least once this process lead to a correct reading, but it hasn't worked recently. I'm not sure if this has gone on since I first got it or if this is a new thing. I noticed it about 3 months ago. This laptop is less than 6 months old, when disconnected from the charger the battery holds a charge for the same length it always has. Is there some file I can erase or some other procedure to reset the the indicator? [cut] I've noted similar behaviour in that I leave my machine connected to a mains supply after shut-down and the 80% charge seems to become a stable state, but after starting the system - Kubuntu in my case - the charge eventually reaches 100%, so it seems to be a function of the running/not running state of the m/c. Peter HB ...which means it's distro-specific. Maybe one distro asks the battery controller some questions the other doesn't and responds accordingly. I think I remember seeing Ubuntu charging my battery to 100% too on a dual boot machine with Debian. According to http://www.samsung.com/us/article/tips--tricks-extending-notebook-battery-life it's called Smart charging, so I guess it should have a config option somewhere. Philip -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52038a4c.6020...@philipashmore.com
Re: battery
It's a feature of modern laptops. The idea is that the battery lasts longer if you avoid full charge/discharge cycles. Mine is on 80% too - it's normal. As for how you tell it to charge to 100% because you're planning a bus trip - anyone out there, please let me know. Regards, Philip Ashmore The cycle only does damage when the battery is discharged beyond 50-60%, which a li-on battery should not allow. It is not the charge that does the damage it is the discharge, so either this diagnosis is not correct or battery makers are morons. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/284161387.16808.1375986004867.JavaMail.sas2@[172.29.244.248]
Re: battery
http://www.samsung.com/us/article/tips--tricks-extending-notebook-battery-life it's called Smart charging, so I guess it should have a config option somewhere. Philip Thank god I never bought a samsung laptop. I am amazed that samsung has just recently discovered the amazing feature of not over-charging batteries. Are there any commands that manipulate battery/acpi info? I'm not sure what to even search for. From what does the battery indicator get its info? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/301141475.17367.1375986485544.JavaMail.sas2@[172.29.244.248]
Re: battery
cletusjenkins grabbed a keyboard and wrote: Thank god I never bought a samsung laptop. I am amazed that samsung has just recently discovered the amazing feature of not over-charging batteries. Funny... my laptop is a Samsung that I've had for a few years now, and it has a feature under battery management that lets me select if I want it to go to full 100% charge or a more battery-saving 80% Maybe I just got lucky. :-) --Dave smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: battery
On Thu, Aug 08, 2013 at 11:15:03AM -0700, cletusjenkins wrote: snip... The cycle only does damage when the battery is discharged beyond 50-60%, which a li-on battery should not allow. Laptop batteries can and sometimes do go to total discharge if left on battery power and forgotten. I have done that more than once on Dell and Lenovo laptops. If you never let the charge get below 50-60% and never above 80% or so your charge life would be what? An hour or two? Makes little sense. Do you have a citation for your 50-60% figure? On the subject of overcharging, most recent chargers will stop charging once the battery is at 100%. This, however, qualifies as overcharging to quite a few people. -- Bob Holtzman Your mail is being read by tight lipped Homeland Security agents who fail to see the humor in Doctor Strangelove signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Battery problem
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:25:59AM +0100, Johannes Wiedersich wrote: On 12/03/13 11:17, Darac Marjal wrote: On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 09:24:20AM +, Andrea Neroni wrote: Have a look at the output of cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/info. In particular, compare the values of design capacity and last full capacity. If last full capacity is significantly lower than design capacity, then the battery is dying. The jump you're seeing is due to the charge profile calibration being out of date in the battery (this might be updatable, but it won't alter your run time). This would not explain, why the same battery runs for 3 hours on windows. Or why Windoze thinks it is getting low and goes into suspension (mode?) -- If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130313072636.GD7765@tal
Re: Battery problem
On Tuesday 12 March 2013 10:00:06 am Andrea Neroni wrote: I was thinking of top too, but even if top shouldn't show something, it still could be, that CPU frequency scaling and energy saving for the graphics and HDD are different between the Win and Debian installs. Hi and thanks for replying. Top seems clean, processes are normal. I was also thinking about the graphic card but I have no idea how to check the power consumption of the card. If there is a way to switch it off completely maybe this could give me an idea. This card is an Optimus. I installed Bumblee and it's difficult to say if it is working. The temperature of the laptop decreased so I think the card should be off. But the optirun command doesn't work for some reason. The final outcome is that I don't know if the card is off and maybe this could be the source off the battery problem. Is there a way to check the status of the discrete card? Andrea OK, but please run $ ps aux ps-list.txt and send the contents of the ps-list.txt file. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201303130511.49525.m...@neidorff.com
Re: Battery problem
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 09:24:20AM +, Andrea Neroni wrote: Hello everyone! I'm experiencing a wierd battery problem and I'd like to know if anyone have seen the same. When I turn on Debian the battery is charged. acpi tells me there are still 3 hours of charge and everything is fine. The battery is relatively new and the maximum capicity for acpi is the 94% of the total, so fine. After 2 minutes (really 2 minutes!!!) the charge goes from the previous level to 8% no matter what you are doing or how much charged was the battery before, and only 10 minutes of time are left. Have a look at the output of cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/info. In particular, compare the values of design capacity and last full capacity. If last full capacity is significantly lower than design capacity, then the battery is dying. The jump you're seeing is due to the charge profile calibration being out of date in the battery (this might be updatable, but it won't alter your run time). signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Battery problem
On 12/03/13 11:17, Darac Marjal wrote: On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 09:24:20AM +, Andrea Neroni wrote: Have a look at the output of cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/info. In particular, compare the values of design capacity and last full capacity. If last full capacity is significantly lower than design capacity, then the battery is dying. The jump you're seeing is due to the charge profile calibration being out of date in the battery (this might be updatable, but it won't alter your run time). This would not explain, why the same battery runs for 3 hours on windows. Johannes -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/513f02b7.2070...@aktendiener.de
Re: Battery problem
On 12/03/13 11:17, Darac Marjal wrote: On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 09:24:20AM +, Andrea Neroni wrote: Have a look at the output of cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/info. In particular, compare the values of design capacity and last full capacity. If last full capacity is significantly lower than design capacity, then the battery is dying. The jump you're seeing is due to the charge profile calibration being out of date in the battery (this might be updatable, but it won't alter your run time). This would not explain, why the same battery runs for 3 hours on windows. To start with, does the top command show any process running with a lot of CPU time? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/011c92b18cb999f1c1356e6068994460.squir...@neidorff.com
Re: Battery problem
On Tue, 2013-03-12 at 09:24 -0400, m...@neidorff.com wrote: On 12/03/13 11:17, Darac Marjal wrote: On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 09:24:20AM +, Andrea Neroni wrote: Have a look at the output of cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/info. In particular, compare the values of design capacity and last full capacity. If last full capacity is significantly lower than design capacity, then the battery is dying. The jump you're seeing is due to the charge profile calibration being out of date in the battery (this might be updatable, but it won't alter your run time). This would not explain, why the same battery runs for 3 hours on windows. To start with, does the top command show any process running with a lot of CPU time? I was thinking of top too, but even if top shouldn't show something, it still could be, that CPU frequency scaling and energy saving for the graphics and HDD are different between the Win and Debian installs. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1363096154.1445.19.camel@archlinux
Re: Battery problem
Have a look at the output of cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/info. In particular, compare the values of design capacity and last full capacity. If last full capacity is significantly lower than design capacity, then the battery is dying. The jump you're seeing is due to the charge profile calibration being out of date in the battery (this might be updatable, but it won't alter your run time). This would not explain, why the same battery runs for 3 hours on windows. Johannes This is exactly the problem. The last full capacity reported is 94% 4900 mAh compared to the design capacity of 5200 mAh. This should be fine. Andrea -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/513f02b7.2070...@aktendiener.de
Re: Battery problem
I was thinking of top too, but even if top shouldn't show something, it still could be, that CPU frequency scaling and energy saving for the graphics and HDD are different between the Win and Debian installs. Hi and thanks for replying. Top seems clean, processes are normal. I was also thinking about the graphic card but I have no idea how to check the power consumption of the card. If there is a way to switch it off completely maybe this could give me an idea. This card is an Optimus. I installed Bumblee and it's difficult to say if it is working. The temperature of the laptop decreased so I think the card should be off. But the optirun command doesn't work for some reason. The final outcome is that I don't know if the card is off and maybe this could be the source off the battery problem. Is there a way to check the status of the discrete card? Andrea
Re: Battery problem
On Tue, 12 Mar 2013 10:17:21 + Darac Marjal mailingl...@darac.org.uk wrote: On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 09:24:20AM +, Andrea Neroni wrote: Hello everyone! I'm experiencing a wierd battery problem and I'd like to know if anyone have seen the same. When I turn on Debian the battery is charged. acpi tells me there are still 3 hours of charge and everything is fine. The battery is relatively new and the maximum capicity for acpi is the 94% of the total, so fine. After 2 minutes (really 2 minutes!!!) the charge goes from the previous level to 8% no matter what you are doing or how much charged was the battery before, and only 10 minutes of time are left. Have a look at the output of cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/info. In particular, compare the values of design capacity and last full capacity. If last full capacity is significantly lower than design capacity, then the battery is dying. The jump you're seeing is due to the charge profile calibration being out of date in the battery (this might be updatable, but it won't alter your run time). Just FTR, on my system (Squeeze on a ThinkPad T61, using the tp_smapi module), that information is under /sys/devices/platform/smapi/BAT0/* Celejar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130312225257.151fe4dd.cele...@gmail.com
Re: `Battery is now fully charged:' why do I receive this after having unplugged the cable?
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 17:15:42 +0200, Merciadri Luca wrote: I receive the message `Battery is now fully charged' on my Asus EEE 1000HE under Debian Lenny 5 w. kernel 2.26-2-686, but only once I have unplugged the cable? For example, the PC might be on AC power for 15 hours, and say nothing. If I then unplug the cable, it tells me that the battery is _now_ fully charged. Is it normal? Does someone else experience this? It looks not so normal to me. But looking at Debian wiki for EEE systems it seems to be a known issue with power management: *** http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEeePC/HowTo/Configure#Powermanagement Power management On some models, the battery info is not very precise (jumps from 10% to 100%, no rate information, etc.). Apparently, this is normal. It appears that the userspace battery utilities expect the battery to report mAh, but in fact it reports percentage. This is either a bug in the battery firmware or a bug in the BIOS; it is known to be fixed with newer BIOS versions and kernels ≥ 2.6.25. *** THT. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.04.13.15.39...@gmail.com
Re: `Battery is now fully charged:' why do I receive this after having unplugged the cable?
Camaleón wrote: It looks not so normal to me. I am reassured. But looking at Debian wiki for EEE systems it seems to be a known issue with power management: *** http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEeePC/HowTo/Configure#Powermanagement Power management On some models, the battery info is not very precise (jumps from 10% to 100%, no rate information, etc.). Apparently, this is normal. It appears that the userspace battery utilities expect the battery to report mAh, but in fact it reports percentage. This is either a bug in the battery firmware or a bug in the BIOS; it is known to be fixed with newer BIOS versions and kernels ≥ 2.6.25. *** Sure, but I am using 2.6._26_-2-686 ≥ 2.6.25. Weird. -- Merciadri Luca See http://www.student.montefiore.ulg.ac.be/~merciadri/ I use PGP. If there is an incompatibility problem with your mail client, please contact me. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: `Battery is now fully charged:' why do I receive this after having unplugged the cable?
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 17:46:43 +0200, Merciadri Luca wrote: Camaleón wrote: *** http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEeePC/HowTo/Configure#Powermanagement Power management On some models, the battery info is not very precise (jumps from 10% to 100%, no rate information, etc.). Apparently, this is normal. It appears that the userspace battery utilities expect the battery to report mAh, but in fact it reports percentage. This is either a bug in the battery firmware or a bug in the BIOS; it is known to be fixed with newer BIOS versions and kernels ≥ 2.6.25. *** Sure, but I am using 2.6._26_-2-686 ≥ 2.6.25. Weird. And your BIOS version is the latest available? :-? Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.04.13.16.12...@gmail.com
Re: `Battery is now fully charged:' why do I receive this after having unplugged the cable?
Camaleón wrote: And your BIOS version is the latest available? :-? Sure! -- Merciadri Luca See http://www.student.montefiore.ulg.ac.be/~merciadri/ I use PGP. If there is an incompatibility problem with your mail client, please contact me. From those to whom much is given, much is expected. (Bib. quote, Luke 12:48) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: `Battery is now fully charged:' why do I receive this after having unplugged the cable?
On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 18:54:56 +0200, Merciadri Luca wrote: Camaleón wrote: And your BIOS version is the latest available? :-? Sure! Ouch! O:-) How about trying with debian-eeepc-devel¹ list? Maybe they provide more information about this as they develop the tools for these specific netbooks. ¹ http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/debian-eeepc-devel Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.04.13.17.14...@gmail.com
Re: `Battery is now fully charged:' why do I receive this after having unplugged the cable?
Camaleón wrote: ¹ http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/debian-eeepc-devel I try it! Thanks. -- Merciadri Luca See http://www.student.montefiore.ulg.ac.be/~merciadri/ I use PGP. If there is an incompatibility problem with your mail client, please contact me. You find out who your real friends are when you're involved in a scandal. (Elizabeth Taylor) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Battery status is not the same using two different sources of info
El Sun, 21 Mar 2010 00:23:32 +0100, Merciadri Luca escribió: That is also what I think. However, these are out-of-the-box applets, and they should consequently be compatible (i.e. give the same results). The output of your command is the same as the info box you can see on my screenshot. I agree. Look: http://picpaste.com/battery.png Although I am running Debian Lenny in a VM (VirtualBox) both applets are showing the same information, there is no discrepancy between them :-? Maybe this is something worth to report it. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.03.21.12.01...@gmail.com
Re: Battery status is not the same using two different sources of info
Camaleón wrote: El Sun, 21 Mar 2010 00:23:32 +0100, Merciadri Luca escribió: That is also what I think. However, these are out-of-the-box applets, and they should consequently be compatible (i.e. give the same results). The output of your command is the same as the info box you can see on my screenshot. I agree. Look: http://picpaste.com/battery.png Although I am running Debian Lenny in a VM (VirtualBox) both applets are showing the same information, there is no discrepancy between them :-? Maybe this is something worth to report it. And when you put the cursor on the other applet, does it show exactly the same remaining time? Thanks. -- Merciadri Luca See http://www.student.montefiore.ulg.ac.be/~merciadri/ I use PGP. If there is an incompatibility problem with your mail client, please contact me. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Battery status is not the same using two different sources of info
On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 13:04:37 +0100, Merciadri Luca wrote: Camaleón wrote: Maybe this is something worth to report it. And when you put the cursor on the other applet, does it show exactly the same remaining time? Yes :-) If you carefully look the picture I sent, you will see the remaining time displayed at the right of the icon: [green icon1 94%] [green icon2 1:34] [blue icon3 bubble] Anyway, if I put the mouse over the two first icons (they are the same applet just one is displaying percentage and the other remaining time) I get the same value. Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.03.21.12.17...@gmail.com
Re: Battery status is not the same using two different sources of info
Camaleón wrote: On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 13:04:37 +0100, Merciadri Luca wrote: Camaleón wrote: Maybe this is something worth to report it. And when you put the cursor on the other applet, does it show exactly the same remaining time? Yes :-) If you carefully look the picture I sent, you will see the remaining time displayed at the right of the icon: [green icon1 94%] [green icon2 1:34] [blue icon3 bubble] Anyway, if I put the mouse over the two first icons (they are the same applet just one is displaying percentage and the other remaining time) I get the same value. Okay. The problem must come from me, then. I will try to find the answer. Thanks! -- Merciadri Luca See http://www.student.montefiore.ulg.ac.be/~merciadri/ I use PGP. If there is an incompatibility problem with your mail client, please contact me. Every cloud has a silver lining. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Battery status is not the same using two different sources of info
On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 20:29:58 +0100, Merciadri Luca wrote: (...) You can see, at the right, at the top of the screen, that 4h. and 1 min. are still available from the battery. Now, putting the mouse on the green battery gives 3h30 min. left. Why is there such a difference on both indicators? Different battery status applets may use different backends for monitoring the battery capabilities (i.e., GNOME applet may be using HAL while others query directly ACPI). Just guessing O:-) Or it can be simply that one of the applets is experiencing some kind of bug/problem for gathering that data from your machine. BTW, what is the output of cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT1/info? Greetings, -- Camaleón -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pan.2010.03.20.23.02...@gmail.com
Re: Battery status is not the same using two different sources of info
Camaleón wrote: On Sat, 20 Mar 2010 20:29:58 +0100, Merciadri Luca wrote: (...) You can see, at the right, at the top of the screen, that 4h. and 1 min. are still available from the battery. Now, putting the mouse on the green battery gives 3h30 min. left. Why is there such a difference on both indicators? Different battery status applets may use different backends for monitoring the battery capabilities (i.e., GNOME applet may be using HAL while others query directly ACPI). Just guessing O:-) Or it can be simply that one of the applets is experiencing some kind of bug/problem for gathering that data from your machine. BTW, what is the output of cat /proc/acpi/battery/BAT1/info? That is also what I think. However, these are out-of-the-box applets, and they should consequently be compatible (i.e. give the same results). The output of your command is the same as the info box you can see on my screenshot. HTH, -- Merciadri Luca See http://www.student.montefiore.ulg.ac.be/~merciadri/ I use PGP. If there is an incompatibility problem with your mail client, please contact me. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Battery monitor and sound adjust short cut
On 7/13/06, Florian Kulzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can any of you tell me how can I enable AC Adaptor and Control Method Battery please?As far as I remember, the ACPI stuff is compiled as modules in the stockDebian kernels. (I have been using self-compiled kernels for a long time, therefore I am not sure.) You can start by checking if thefollowing modules are loaded: ac, battery, power. If they are not loadedtry to modprobe them. If that works without errors you can try to change the setting in the KDE control center again. ACPI support can still be aproblem, AFAIK it is broken in some BIOSes and I don't know how easy itis to set it up on Dell laptops.I did it according the above instruction and I'm able to configure it in Control Center now. But the problem is how can I add the icons to my panel please? I tried Right click on panel--Add Application / Applet to Panel. But I could not get it shown on the panel. I Secondly, under Window XP I can use Fn+Pg Up / Dn key combination to adjust the volumn. But I do not know how to do in under Debian. Can anyone give some direction please?If that key combination is supported in the Linux ACPI routines it willgenerate an ACPI event which you can use to trigger a short script to change the volume by calling alsamixer. This is done by the acpi daemon.You can install the acpid package and run acpi_listen. Press the keycombination and check if an event/keycode is displayed. man acpid has details on how to proceed from there and you can also have a look at theevent and action files which are already present in /etc/acpid.While, after I input acpi_listen I got the following infor YUNNAN:/home/lover# acpi_listenac_adapter AC 0080 battery BAT0 0080 0001processor CPU0 0080 battery BAT0 0080 0001battery BAT0 0080 0001 ac_adapter AC 0080 0001battery BAT0 0080 0001processor CPU0 0080 battery BAT0 0080 0001battery BAT0 0080 0001#I will check on man acpid later. Thanks,Rocky
Re: Battery monitor and sound adjust short cut
On Sat, Jul 15, 2006 at 17:01:06 +0800, Rocky Ou wrote: On 7/13/06, Florian Kulzer wrote: Can any of you tell me how can I enable AC Adaptor and Control Method Battery please? As far as I remember, the ACPI stuff is compiled as modules in the stock Debian kernels. (I have been using self-compiled kernels for a long time, therefore I am not sure.) You can start by checking if the following modules are loaded: ac, battery, power. If they are not loaded try to modprobe them. If that works without errors you can try to change the setting in the KDE control center again. ACPI support can still be a problem, AFAIK it is broken in some BIOSes and I don't know how easy it is to set it up on Dell laptops. I did it according the above instruction and I'm able to configure it in Control Center now. But the problem is how can I add the icons to my panel please? I tried Right click on panel--Add Application / Applet to Panel. But I could not get it shown on the panel. The battery monitor icon should show up if you select Show Battery Monitor in the Battery tab of the Control Center Power Control Laptop Battery menu. The Start Battery Monitor button on the bottom of that tab should work as well. It will not show up, however, if you (accidentally) disabled the system tray of the panel. You can activate the system tray by right-clicking on the panel and selecting Add Applet to Panel... System Tray. If the system tray is already active it might be worth a try to remove it (Remove From Panel Applet System Tray) and add it again. Still no luck? Check your ~/.xsession-errors log for error messages which might be related to the battery monitor. I Secondly, under Window XP I can use Fn+Pg Up / Dn key combination to adjust the volumn. But I do not know how to do in under Debian. Can anyone give some direction please? If that key combination is supported in the Linux ACPI routines it will generate an ACPI event which you can use to trigger a short script to change the volume by calling alsamixer. This is done by the acpi daemon. You can install the acpid package and run acpi_listen. Press the key combination and check if an event/keycode is displayed. man acpid has details on how to proceed from there and you can also have a look at the event and action files which are already present in /etc/acpid. While, after I input acpi_listen I got the following infor YUNNAN:/home/lover# acpi_listen ac_adapter AC 0080 battery BAT0 0080 0001 processor CPU0 0080 battery BAT0 0080 0001 battery BAT0 0080 0001 ac_adapter AC 0080 0001 battery BAT0 0080 0001 processor CPU0 0080 battery BAT0 0080 0001 battery BAT0 0080 0001 # If you press the key combination while acpi_listen is running you should see something like this: hotkey ATKD 0030 0002 The 0030 would be the keycode which you need; the other number is a counter which is incremented every time the key combination is pressed. I can post an example script here to help you set up the volume control, but it will not be of any use to you if your system does not recognize the ACPI event. Like I said before, many laptops offer only partial ACPI support under Linux, thanks to the Windows-centric manufacturers and their broken ACPI implementations. Upgrading to the newest version of the BIOS can sometimes improve the situation. (Please keep in kind that I have no specific knowledge of your particular laptop model.) -- Regards, Florian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Battery monitor and sound adjust short cut
On Tue, Jul 11, 2006 at 22:10:45 +0800, Rocky Ou wrote: Hey List, I'm using Debian Sid on my Dell Inspiron 2200 laptop. I want to enable the power monitor function for my computer. But when I go to Control Center--Power Control --Laptop Battery of KDE I got the following message. ### Your computer seems to have a partial ACPI installation. ACPI was probably enabled, but some of the sub-options were not - you need to enable at least 'AC Adaptor' and 'Control Method Battery' and then rebuild your kernel. ### Below is my kernel infomation # [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ uname -a Linux YUNNAN 2.6.16-2-686 #1 Wed Jun 21 17:35:13 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux # Can any of you tell me how can I enable AC Adaptor and Control Method Battery please? As far as I remember, the ACPI stuff is compiled as modules in the stock Debian kernels. (I have been using self-compiled kernels for a long time, therefore I am not sure.) You can start by checking if the following modules are loaded: ac, battery, power. If they are not loaded try to modprobe them. If that works without errors you can try to change the setting in the KDE control center again. ACPI support can still be a problem, AFAIK it is broken in some BIOSes and I don't know how easy it is to set it up on Dell laptops. If things go wrong you can try to compile your own kernel with all ACPI options enabled and included. kernel-package provides a nice way to do this; you can start with the Debian configuration and then add or remove things. Secondly, under Window XP I can use Fn+Pg Up / Dn key combination to adjust the volumn. But I do not know how to do in under Debian. Can anyone give some direction please? If that key combination is supported in the Linux ACPI routines it will generate an ACPI event which you can use to trigger a short script to change the volume by calling alsamixer. This is done by the acpi daemon. You can install the acpid package and run acpi_listen. Press the key combination and check if an event/keycode is displayed. man acpid has details on how to proceed from there and you can also have a look at the event and action files which are already present in /etc/acpid. -- Regards, Florian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: battery power applet nowhere to be found
Never mind. It appears after reboot. I thought this was linux! Why do I have to reboot? :-) On Wednesday 11 August 2004 10:34 am, Brian Samek wrote: I installed sarge and apt-getted kde and acpid. Where's the battery power applet? The control panel has show battery monitor checked. And I can't add it by right-clicking the taskbar. -- Brian Samek [EMAIL PROTECTED] This is not the email you're looking for. Move along... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: battery power applet nowhere to be found
Incoming from Brian Samek: On Wednesday 11 August 2004 10:34 am, Brian Samek wrote: I installed sarge and apt-getted kde and acpid. Where's the battery power applet? The control panel has show battery monitor checked. And I can't add it by right-clicking the Never mind. It appears after reboot. I thought this was linux! Why do I have to reboot? :-) Perhaps all you needed to do was restart X? -- Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. (*) http://www.spots.ab.ca/~keeling - - -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Battery level monitor for Linux and X11?
'xapm' works just as well as the utility provided with W95 on my Thinkpad 365XD. Paul On 21-Feb-97 Robert Nicholson wrote: dmesg reports the correct information from the BIOS so that APM stuff is working fine. So does anybody know of a good notebook battery level monitor? -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Paul Rightley DX-3 Hydrodynamics, MS P940 Los Alamos National LaboratoryLos Alamos, NM 87545 Phone: (505)667-0460 Fax: (505)665-3359 Email: Paul Rightley [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
