Re: debian 64 or 32 bit
On Vi, 18 ian 13, 20:33:01, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: So, for processors able to support x84_64 archs, use it. Why would you use only a fragment of your computer's power? This is a bit of an overstatement. I've been running amd64, i386 and amd64 kernel with i386 userland on this machine[0] and never felt any difference. If you are heavily space constrained[1] than i386 does make sense, especially if you need 32-bit applications. [0] Intel Dual Core T2330 @ 1.6 GHz, 2 GiB RAM [1] at the moment I'm trying to use a 16 GB SD card for my backup install[2] and /home ;) [2] usually stable, but I feel like starting from scratch, so I'm using wheezy Kind regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: debian 64 or 32 bit
Le 19.01.2013 11:49, Andrei POPESCU a écrit : On Vi, 18 ian 13, 20:33:01, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: So, for processors able to support x84_64 archs, use it. Why would you use only a fragment of your computer's power? This is a bit of an overstatement. I've been running amd64, i386 and amd64 kernel with i386 userland on this machine[0] and never felt any difference. If you are heavily space constrained[1] than i386 does make sense, especially if you need 32-bit applications. [0] Intel Dual Core T2330 @ 1.6 GHz, 2 GiB RAM [1] at the moment I'm trying to use a 16 GB SD card for my backup install[2] and /home ;) [2] usually stable, but I feel like starting from scratch, so I'm using wheezy Kind regards, Andrei I guess that doubling the number of register and their capacity is not so easy to notice for most usages. But I think it is not a bad idea to be able to use them when you regularly use stuff that heavily uses the processor, like C++ compilers :) Maybe I should try to compile the same software with same options with both archs installed, but I can see no reason to see the 64bit arch being as slow or slower than the 32bits one... Of course, I think it totally useless for habitual uses, like using word processors. But for that, modern computer are simply a waste: most usages of those applications were made on computers 15 years ago... (set this text in middle of the page, with bold font of size 32, color green, please... the usage of most people I said, not usage of professionals.) I bet that I could give my designed for windows millenium computer to many people, and they could be happy with it, except for disk space and a bit of slowness on the web. Just, do not expect to play or compile with it. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/5b5b6ad89a528eefad08cca7d724e...@neutralite.org
Re: debian 64 or 32 bit
Hi, Dňa Fri, 18 Jan 2013 23:36:50 -0600 Mark Allums m...@allums.com napísal: There is one disadvantage, i read about it, that by using the 64bit pointers, the binaries size and memory requirements are on amd64 higher, than on i386. But bigger HDD and more RAM is no problem in these days. There is a size increase, but not as big as you might think. Your memory requirements won't double. For all *new* computers, 64-bit is a no-brainer. As everyone is saying, 8 GB is fairly common now for desktop machines, and memory access is far more efficient under a 64-bit OS on machines with memory larger than 3 GB. Sure. I don't wrote that memory or disk requirements are double, but they are higher. regards -- Slavko http://slavino.sk signature.asc Description: PGP signature
RE: debian 64 or 32 bit
-Original Message- From: Ralf Mardorf Sent: Sat 1/19/2013 19:21 To: debian-u...@lists.debian.or Subject: Re: debian 64 or 32 bit On Sat, 19 Jan 2013 18:41:21 +0100, Slavko li...@slavino.sk wrote: Hi, Dna Fri, 18 Jan 2013 23:36:50 -0600 Mark Allums m...@allums.com napísal: There is one disadvantage, i read about it, that by using the 64bit pointers, the binaries size and memory requirements are on amd64 higher, than on i386. But bigger HDD and more RAM is no problem in these days. There is a size increase, but not as big as you might think. Your memory requirements won't double. For all *new* computers, 64-bit is a no-brainer. As everyone is saying, 8 GB is fairly common now for desktop machines, and memory access is far more efficient under a 64-bit OS on machines with memory larger than 3 GB. Sure. I don't wrote that memory or disk requirements are double, but they are higher. It's a shame that so much unneeded stuff is sold and especially that users tend to through away still useful gear. 3.7GB are enough for heavy audio productions, I wonder why averaged users need 8GB of RAM, when they only use Firefox and an office suite to write one letter a year. When I bought my 2.1GHz dual-core, fast enough for heavy audio productions too, I liked that the CPU did need half as much watt as my 800MHz single core CPU did consume. Btw. on the same machine there isn't a big difference between 32-bit and 64-bit when doing heavy audio productions or compiling a kernel. I prefer 64-bit Linux, but the difference isn't that big. It's important to get rid of bottlenecks on what architecture ever. Btw. when I add a parallel port to my C64 to have faster floppy drive access, nobody imagined that we today go back from parallel to serial ports for modern hard disk drives. There's no valid general assessment about what architecture is the better one. I bet with my professional sound card performance will be better and CPU usage will be less heavy on a week computer, than for a powerful machine with an onboard audio device. Important are the bottlenecks regarding to the usage. All general claims are nothing, but blah-blah. 2 Cents, Ralf -- No good deed ever goes unpunished. Einer guten Tat folgt die Strafe auf dem Fuße!
Re: debian 64 or 32 bit
Hi, Dňa Sat, 19 Jan 2013 12:34:54 +0100 berenger.mo...@neutralite.org napísal: Of course, I think it totally useless for habitual uses, like using word processors. But for that, modern computer are simply a waste: most usages of those applications were made on computers 15 years ago... (set this text in middle of the page, with bold font of size 32, color green, please... the usage of most people I said, not usage of professionals.) I bet that I could give my designed for windows millenium computer to many people, and they could be happy with it, except for disk space and a bit of slowness on the web. Just, do not expect to play or compile with it. I remember the time of 16/32bit applications (i remember the 8 bit apps too, but changing to 16 bit was out of my scope) :-) There was a discussions about go or not to go to the 16 bit apps too. In these days i see 16 bit apps occasionally only (very old MS-DOS apps in my job - some CAD communication). I think, that here is time to tell bye bye 32bit apps now. :-) Of course, here are situations, where can be problem - for example i have one hardware with proprietary driver (interactive white board) with 32-bit installer only, then i was using i386 Debian, with 64bit kernel (some years ago - now the company doesn't provides the Linux driver) for it, but this is special case, as above mentioned MS-DOS apps, which are running on dedicated Win98 machines. regards -- Slavko http://slavino.sk signature.asc Description: PGP signature
RE: debian 64 or 32 bit
Important are the bottlenecks regarding to the usage. All general claims are nothing, but blah-blah. Could not agree more. Too many people are buying new ram modules when they should simply buy a faster hard disk, by example. People often say that dev needs high-performance computers for compilation, and I am doing most of my personal dev on a netbook. It is powerful enough. Well, ok, it would not be if I was using certain IDE, and some weeks ago I wanted to change my RAM module to go to 2GB. But since then, I've discovered clang. The current problem, and reason why people need new, over-powerful hardwares is that developers create bloatwares and soft with many memory leaks and high memory costs. I remember teachers I had saying that using int was as good as using char since consumers can buy ram. Luckily, I had already knowledge in programming, and a strong opinion that obvious optimizations must be done, but I was an exception. You spoke about firefox. A few versions ago, it was a good sample of what I said, but because of the browser's war, they finally fix their problems. I can remember times where it was able to run with less than 256MB! It can not do that on desktop version nowadays. Not without a lot of disk access to swap. But I think it is a shame that softwares need opponents to think about their performances problems. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/8be12824af8b2496bf749cb0cbe7e...@neutralite.org
RE: debian 64 or 32 bit
Hi Andrei, Van: Andrei Hristow [mailto:adrifo...@gmail.com] Hi, I have 8 GB RAM Which version will be better for my i381 or amd64 The i386 kernel can only address the first 4GB and needs trics to access the rest. So, for you and many others, it is the amd64 version. Bonno Bloksma -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/89d1798a7351d040b4e74e0a043c69d71cc51...@hglexch-01.tio.nl
Re: debian 64 or 32 bit
On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 11:26:17 +0100, Andrei Hristow adrifo...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I have 8 GB RAM Which version will be better for my i381 or amd64 This doesn't depend to the used RAM. If everything of an install should be ok, then the whole RAM is available with a PAE kernel on 32-bit and for 64-bit kernels there should be no issues regarding to the RAM. On 64-bit it's possible to use 32-bit libraries in addition to the 64-bit libraries, to e.g. run proprietary 32-bit software on 64-bit architecture. We are living in the year 2013, so I prefer 64-bit architecture, even if there should be what ever, that still might need 32-bit architecture. Regards, Ralf -- FreeBSD 9.1-RELEASE amd64 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/op.wq3sgqy6qhadp0@freebsd
Re: debian 64 or 32 bit
On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:26:17PM +0200, Andrei Hristow wrote: Hi, I have 8 GB RAM Which version will be better for my i381 or amd64 amd64. Go native and get full access to your ram at full speed. If you need i386 for anything you can go multiarch (you may aswell install wheezy at this stage IMO). -- A search of his car uncovered pornography, a homemade sex aid, women's stockings and a Jack Russell terrier. - http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/wacky/indeed/story-e6frev20-118083480 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130118104434.ga7...@zip.com.au
Re: debian 64 or 32 bit
Hi! Am Freitag, 18. Januar 2013 schrieb Andrei Hristow: Hi, I have 8 GB RAM Which version will be better for my i381 or amd64 Anything = 4 GB: 64 bit. So that processes can address more than 3G of RAM. And yeah, I saw this with Planeshift having 3,7 GB of RSS for itself :) Ciao, -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201301181223.08428.mar...@lichtvoll.de
Re: debian 64 or 32 bit
Le 18.01.2013 11:51, Ralf Mardorf a écrit : On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 11:26:17 +0100, Andrei Hristow adrifo...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I have 8 GB RAM Which version will be better for my i381 or amd64 This doesn't depend to the used RAM. If everything of an install should be ok, then the whole RAM is available with a PAE kernel on 32-bit and for 64-bit kernels there should be no issues regarding to the RAM. On 64-bit it's possible to use 32-bit libraries in addition to the 64-bit libraries, to e.g. run proprietary 32-bit software on 64-bit architecture. We are living in the year 2013, so I prefer 64-bit architecture, even if there should be what ever, that still might need 32-bit architecture. Regards, Ralf -- FreeBSD 9.1-RELEASE amd64 I agree. And RAM is not the only interest for x86_64 archs, softwares can also benefit from more (if not all) instruction sets and internal registers of processors. Some people think that this may improve performances of some softwares, or move their limits a big range over if they have been written with portability in mind. Max usable amount of RAM is only *one* of those limits. So, for processors able to support x84_64 archs, use it. Why would you use only a fragment of your computer's power? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/04d90a996c48afcb69cab2cd9ed3d...@neutralite.org
Re: debian 64 or 32 bit
Hi, Dňa Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:33:01 +0100 berenger.mo...@neutralite.org napísal: So, for processors able to support x84_64 archs, use it. Why would you use only a fragment of your computer's power? I agree. Some years ago, when i buy computer with amd64 procesor, i did the same troubles: to use i386 or amd64 debian? Then i decided to install first amd64 and take some measures for some days. After this i reinstall with the same software set and the same settings, but amd64 and did the the same measures. I don't remember whole results, but i know that with the i386 i was load about 0,12, but with amd64 it was only 0,04 (only DE working, no other work with software). From this time i am using amd64 OS (no matter Windows/Linux) for all computers, which has amd64 processor :-) There is one disadvantage, i read about it, that by using the 64bit pointers, the binaries size and memory requirements are on amd64 higher, than on i386. But bigger HDD and more RAM is no problem in these days. regards -- Slavko http://slavino.sk signature.asc Description: PGP signature
RE: debian 64 or 32 bit
So, for processors able to support x84_64 archs, use it. Why would you use only a fragment of your computer's power? There is one disadvantage, i read about it, that by using the 64bit pointers, the binaries size and memory requirements are on amd64 higher, than on i386. But bigger HDD and more RAM is no problem in these days. There is a size increase, but not as big as you might think. Your memory requirements won't double. For all *new* computers, 64-bit is a no-brainer. As everyone is saying, 8 GB is fairly common now for desktop machines, and memory access is far more efficient under a 64-bit OS on machines with memory larger than 3 GB. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/005e01cdf606$fbbc7100$f3355300$@allums.com
