Re: Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-29 Thread Micha Feigin
On Tue, Jun 29, 2004 at 12:11:47PM +0200, David Fokkema wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 27, 2004 at 09:17:33PM -0400, Kevin Mark wrote:
> > On Sun, Jun 27, 2004 at 07:57:08AM -0500, cecil wrote:
> > > cecil wrote:
> > > 
> > > >I just looked on the upcoming syllubus for my CS class. The prof 
> > > >requires ms word format zipped files for the assignments. What do I do 
> > > >to do that on linux? I guess I HAVE to install X now. :(
> > > >
> > > >Cecil
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Maybe I should get a different laptop? Is a 150 mhz machine with 2 gig 
> > > hd and 32 meg ram going to be able to do the job? I'm worried now.
> > > 
> > 
> > Hi Cecil,
> > I have a libretto 110: p1-166 32mb ram, 10gb (up from 2gb). I have X
> > with windowmaker running with mozilla-fire$PICK_ONE. Its not a speed
> > deamon but it works. Sounds like you'll be doing non-gui progamming
> > anyway unless this is some upper level class. most beginning classes in
> > pascal,fortran,c,c++, etc. use stdout, not gui stuff. At most, the
> > program may use a generic gui output method to simulate a console.
> > Maybe you teacher will ok you submitting a text file dump and not the
> > fancy screen shot.
> 
> And if you _really_ want a window manager that looks like you're
> operating on the console apart from graphical output from time to time,
> use ion (or ion-devel). I used that on my old laptop when I was tired of
> waiting for gnome etc. and didn't want to be distracted from my thesis

There is also ratpoison which is very light if you are into those kinds
of window managers.

> work at all. If I _did_ want to be distracted, I used windowmaker with
> some nice dockapps. Looks just fine!
> 
> David
> 
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Re: Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-29 Thread Tom Allison
David Fokkema wrote:
On Sun, Jun 27, 2004 at 09:17:33PM -0400, Kevin Mark wrote:
On Sun, Jun 27, 2004 at 07:57:08AM -0500, cecil wrote:
cecil wrote:

I just looked on the upcoming syllubus for my CS class. The prof 
requires ms word format zipped files for the assignments. What do I do 
to do that on linux? I guess I HAVE to install X now. :(

Cecil

Maybe I should get a different laptop? Is a 150 mhz machine with 2 gig 
hd and 32 meg ram going to be able to do the job? I'm worried now.

Hi Cecil,
I have a libretto 110: p1-166 32mb ram, 10gb (up from 2gb). I have X
with windowmaker running with mozilla-fire$PICK_ONE. Its not a speed
deamon but it works. Sounds like you'll be doing non-gui progamming
anyway unless this is some upper level class. most beginning classes in
pascal,fortran,c,c++, etc. use stdout, not gui stuff. At most, the
program may use a generic gui output method to simulate a console.
Maybe you teacher will ok you submitting a text file dump and not the
fancy screen shot.

And if you _really_ want a window manager that looks like you're
operating on the console apart from graphical output from time to time,
use ion (or ion-devel). I used that on my old laptop when I was tired of
waiting for gnome etc. and didn't want to be distracted from my thesis
work at all. If I _did_ want to be distracted, I used windowmaker with
some nice dockapps. Looks just fine!
David
WindowMaker is surprisingly lightweight and high performing.
If you have to go 'X' then this might be the best option.  IIRC it uses 
4MB of memory footprint.  Probably better than fvwm but I'm not sure 
about twm.

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Re: Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-29 Thread David Fokkema
On Sun, Jun 27, 2004 at 09:17:33PM -0400, Kevin Mark wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 27, 2004 at 07:57:08AM -0500, cecil wrote:
> > cecil wrote:
> > 
> > >I just looked on the upcoming syllubus for my CS class. The prof 
> > >requires ms word format zipped files for the assignments. What do I do 
> > >to do that on linux? I guess I HAVE to install X now. :(
> > >
> > >Cecil
> > >
> > >
> > Maybe I should get a different laptop? Is a 150 mhz machine with 2 gig 
> > hd and 32 meg ram going to be able to do the job? I'm worried now.
> > 
> 
> Hi Cecil,
> I have a libretto 110: p1-166 32mb ram, 10gb (up from 2gb). I have X
> with windowmaker running with mozilla-fire$PICK_ONE. Its not a speed
> deamon but it works. Sounds like you'll be doing non-gui progamming
> anyway unless this is some upper level class. most beginning classes in
> pascal,fortran,c,c++, etc. use stdout, not gui stuff. At most, the
> program may use a generic gui output method to simulate a console.
> Maybe you teacher will ok you submitting a text file dump and not the
> fancy screen shot.

And if you _really_ want a window manager that looks like you're
operating on the console apart from graphical output from time to time,
use ion (or ion-devel). I used that on my old laptop when I was tired of
waiting for gnome etc. and didn't want to be distracted from my thesis
work at all. If I _did_ want to be distracted, I used windowmaker with
some nice dockapps. Looks just fine!

David

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Re: Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-28 Thread Micha Feigin
On Mon, Jun 28, 2004 at 01:06:51PM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> On Sun, Jun 27, 2004 at 07:50:20AM -0500, cecil wrote:
> > I just looked on the upcoming syllubus for my CS class. The prof 
> > requires ms word format zipped files for the assignments. What do I do 
> > to do that on linux? I guess I HAVE to install X now. :(
> > 
> > Cecil
> 
> With the replies so far, I guess you now know that X will run on your machine.
> Knoppix might have troubles, though, because its autoconfiguration may be
> designed for a larger machine (it reserves a 10 megabyte RAMdisk, for
> example, and thst's a *lot* of your RAM, and may no longer have space for X.
> 

Most modern desktops and live cds, including knoppix and friends won't
run on that machine and it will probably take some time to set up, but
I also ran linux originally with X and fvwm on a 486 and a 1GB HD.

startoffice 5 (what is now openoffice) ran on it at the time, but was
_very_ slow, so openoffice will probably be a problem. Mozilla probably
won't like it too much either since its a resource hog, but there are
lighter variants (firefox maybe, epiphany probably).

> As for minimal X, I once (ten or fifteen years ago) used an X terminal
> with only 8 meg of RAM.  It worked fine, though all my applications and
> even the window manager had to run on another machine!
> 
> May I recommend abiword?  It will also generate word files, and it's a good
> deal smaller than OpenOffice.
> 
> -- hendrik
> > 
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Re: Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-28 Thread Hendrik Boom
On Sun, Jun 27, 2004 at 07:50:20AM -0500, cecil wrote:
> I just looked on the upcoming syllubus for my CS class. The prof 
> requires ms word format zipped files for the assignments. What do I do 
> to do that on linux? I guess I HAVE to install X now. :(
> 
> Cecil

With the replies so far, I guess you now know that X will run on your machine.
Knoppix might have troubles, though, because its autoconfiguration may be
designed for a larger machine (it reserves a 10 megabyte RAMdisk, for
example, and thst's a *lot* of your RAM, and may no longer have space for X.

As for minimal X, I once (ten or fifteen years ago) used an X terminal
with only 8 meg of RAM.  It worked fine, though all my applications and
even the window manager had to run on another machine!

May I recommend abiword?  It will also generate word files, and it's a good
deal smaller than OpenOffice.

-- hendrik
> 
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Re: Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-27 Thread Kevin Mark
On Sun, Jun 27, 2004 at 07:57:08AM -0500, cecil wrote:
> cecil wrote:
> 
> >I just looked on the upcoming syllubus for my CS class. The prof 
> >requires ms word format zipped files for the assignments. What do I do 
> >to do that on linux? I guess I HAVE to install X now. :(
> >
> >Cecil
> >
> >
> Maybe I should get a different laptop? Is a 150 mhz machine with 2 gig 
> hd and 32 meg ram going to be able to do the job? I'm worried now.
> 

Hi Cecil,
I have a libretto 110: p1-166 32mb ram, 10gb (up from 2gb). I have X
with windowmaker running with mozilla-fire$PICK_ONE. Its not a speed
deamon but it works. Sounds like you'll be doing non-gui progamming
anyway unless this is some upper level class. most beginning classes in
pascal,fortran,c,c++, etc. use stdout, not gui stuff. At most, the
program may use a generic gui output method to simulate a console.
Maybe you teacher will ok you submitting a text file dump and not the
fancy screen shot.
-Kev
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Re: Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-27 Thread Tim Wood
Don't believe all the nay sayers on the list.
6 years ago, on my first laptop, I ran Win95 and Office on a 486-DX 33 
with 8MB RAM and 120MB HDD (that,s Meg not Gig). It's true that I 
eventually ended up using Hamm split onto the HDD and a 100Zip drive.

I also have a Pentium 100 40MB RAM, 1.2GH HDD that will quite happily 
run Win98 and Office97. It is stuck in a cupboard now :)

That said, I do think you would do better to follow the suggestion to 
print in ps and convert to pdf. Surely nobody runs Windows without 
Acrobat Reader?

regards,
   Tim
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Re: Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-27 Thread dircha
cecil wrote:
cecil wrote:
I just looked on the upcoming syllubus for my CS class. The prof 
requires ms word format zipped files for the assignments. What do I do 
to do that on linux? I guess I HAVE to install X now. :(
Maybe I should get a different laptop? Is a 150 mhz machine with 2 gig 
hd and 32 meg ram going to be able to do the job? I'm worried now.
There's nothing wrong with installing X. It's all Free, so use the best 
tool for the job.

For many tasks I have nothing open but a single fullscreen terminal with 
no window decorations, but it is an xterm. For me, text in an xterm is 
faster, crisper, and at 1600x1200 is higher resolution than anything I 
can get on the console with my video card.

I feel that I mentioned this a week or two ago when we were having a 
similar conversation on the list, but even if you were to use 
OpenOffice.org, whenever you need to turn in a .doc file converted from 
 OOo (rather than a printed document), you are going to want to preview 
the .doc document on a machine running Windows, in genuine MS Word, and 
preferably the same version your instructor will be running. Either you 
will need to use a lab computer to do this, or use a friend's computer. 
Because if something doesn't work right, there are no excuses. You had 
access to a lab computer just like all the people who don't even have a 
personal computer, and you had access to the prescribed tools on those 
lab computers.

Which operating system you will be running is going to be the least of 
your worries. You're _never_ going to get a higher grade because your 
completed assignment went through n esoteric conversions and was keyed 
in on a front panel. And if you have to worry about that, you are either 
going to need to spend that much more time on the assignment than 
everyone else, or you will be stressed and start to miss things.

It is almost never worth accepting a lower grade because you did not use 
the prescribed tools for the job. CS has very little to do with learning 
how to operate any particular operating system. You will find many 
successful CS students who use only Windows, and the odds are that many 
of them will be smarter and more successful in school than you. It just 
doesn't matter that much. It really doesn't. Do something Linux or UNIX 
related at the hobbyist level, in school IT employment, or in an internship.

I think you have 4 good options, which have already been covered:
- Ask the professor whether you can turn in completed assignments in PDF 
 format, and explain to him or her why you would prefer to.
- Compose documents with LaTeX and convert to rtf. Then go to a lab 
machine and convert rtf to doc with MS Word, preview the doc file in MS 
Word and cocrrect any formatting issues, zip it, and turn it in (see 
packages latex2rtf and latex2rtf-doc).
- Buy a slightly faster machine and from your campus computer or book 
store buy educational license copies of Windows 2000 and Office 2000 (or 
whatever).
- Use a lab computer, and keep your machine for tinkering and other 
free-time pursuits, or for those assignments where it doesn't create 
more problems than are worth hassling with.

Remember, even if you chose to buy a faster machine to run 
OpenOffice.org, at risk of getting a lower grade when it fails to open 
correctly or format just right, or display things in the right order, 
you will still need to go to a lab machine and preview the converted 
.doc file. And again, it is almost never worth taking that risk.

dircha
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Re: Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-27 Thread Stephen Patterson
On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 15:50:06 +0200, Micha Feigin wrote:
> There are also several latex to rtf converters. You may lose some
> formating but it will open under word.

Specifically, it tends to bork on multiple tabular environments. 

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Re: Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-27 Thread David Fokkema
On Sun, Jun 27, 2004 at 07:50:20AM -0500, cecil wrote:
> I just looked on the upcoming syllubus for my CS class. The prof 
> requires ms word format zipped files for the assignments. What do I do 
> to do that on linux? I guess I HAVE to install X now. :(

Since you're already thinking about LaTeX...

Your professor is running windows and cares about file size. There is a
very handy windows app which can read _all files_ which a linux app can
generate, if that app can print to a file, as most (if not all) can. The
de facto standard on un*x systems for printing files is postscript.
Certainly with LaTeX it is _very_ easy to output these. The nice thing
about postscript is that you can translate it to Adobe's Portable Data
Format (PDF) and the windows program I'm talking about would be Adobe's
Acrobat Reader. All my teachers in the last year and the entire school I
teach are running windows, but I just convert everything to pdf and I'm
all set. I would be very suprised if your professor wouldn't accept pdf.
If he doesn't, I'd think about following John's suggestion.

HTH,
David

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Re: Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-27 Thread Alex Malinovich
On Sun, Jun 27, 2004 at 11:00:06AM -0400, Paul Smith wrote:
> %% cecil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
>   c> Maybe I should get a different laptop? Is a 150 mhz machine with 2 gig
>   c> hd and 32 meg ram going to be able to do the job? I'm worried now.
> 
> I seriously doubt you'll be able to run Office with that amount of
> RAM... and even getting it installed (with the rest of Linux) in 2G will
> be tricky (but is probably doable with work).

You absolutely WILL NOT be able to run OO on that system. It would be
a small miracle if you were even able to get the Java VM alone to load
on there. However, last I checked MS Word has no problem opening up
regular old ASCII files. So unless you really NEED to be making charts
and use curved text with all sorts of other bells and whistles, I see
no reason that he shouldn't accept a plain old ASCII file. Just
remember that since he's a Windows user you'll have to name it *.txt
so that his system doesn't think it's an executable or who knows what
else.

As long as you're not going to be writing any extremely complex
(i.e. heavy duty number-crunching) programs, that machine should be
enough to develop on. For screenshots you can use one of the
previously mentioned methods to get a screen capture of your
console. If your prof won't accept that, you can install just
plain-old X with an xterm and an X screen capture program and call it
a day. I have run X with an xterm on a 133 with 24 MB of RAM without
TOO much trouble. It's not nearly as snappy as my 2.4 GHz box, it
works. :)

Hope that helps. FWIW, having gotten my BS a month ago, I've found
that most profs are willing to let you work in whatever environment
you want as long as you do the work and as long as they're able to
efficiently grade it. The only time this has been a problem with me
was with a prof who wanted compiled binaries as part of the submitted
assignment. For this I would run down to the lab, do a compile (and
use their printer to print source, etc) and then go to class. Best of
luck to you with your schooling and your laptop. :)
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Re: Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-27 Thread Jon
Paul Smith wrote:
On the other hand, Windows is an even worse resource hog than Linux, and
there's NO freakin' way you'll be able to get Windows (well, maybe
Windows 3.1...) to run at all on that system, much less any of the
Office products.  So...
Oh come on. I've got an old Pentium 166 here with 32mb RAM that runs 
Windows 98 SE and Office 97 - not very fast, and best only 1 Office app 
at a time, but it works fine really. My dad used it for years and it got 
the job done. Also, you can easily fit that into say a 500mb partition, 
if that much can be spared on this guy's 2gb disk.

I haven't been following the thread, but surely there are resources at 
the university that can be used anyway...

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Re: Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-27 Thread Paul Smith
%% cecil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

  c> Maybe I should get a different laptop? Is a 150 mhz machine with 2 gig
  c> hd and 32 meg ram going to be able to do the job? I'm worried now.

I seriously doubt you'll be able to run Office with that amount of
RAM... and even getting it installed (with the rest of Linux) in 2G will
be tricky (but is probably doable with work).


On the other hand, Windows is an even worse resource hog than Linux, and
there's NO freakin' way you'll be able to get Windows (well, maybe
Windows 3.1...) to run at all on that system, much less any of the
Office products.  So...

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Re: Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-27 Thread Mark
On Sun, Jun 27, 2004 at 10:57:52PM +1000, Paul Fraser wrote:
> If you're going to be running OpenOffice.org on it, then... hell yes. :|
> 

Or you could discuss this with your prof.

MS Word can open a few formats (not many - MS don't want you
using anything else...), but almost certainly enough for
showing i/o of babygrammes.

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Re: Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-27 Thread John Hasler
cecil writes:
> Maybe I should get a different laptop?

I would suggest that you get a different professor, and perhaps a different
university as well.
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Re: Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-27 Thread Micha Feigin
On Sun, Jun 27, 2004 at 07:55:06AM -0500, cecil wrote:
> cecil wrote:
> 
> >I just looked on the upcoming syllubus for my CS class. The prof 
> >requires ms word format zipped files for the assignments. What do I do 
> >to do that on linux? I guess I HAVE to install X now. :(
> >
> >Cecil
> >
> >
> And on top of that, I read further, and I need to submit also a screen 
> shot of the running program. Is there anyway to do all this stuff just 
> in the console? I'm not fanatical, I can put on twm.
> 

You can either setup X, or if you don't need the graphics I think you
can also cat /dev/tty0 or something similar to get a text version
screen capture, don't remember the exact details, or if you run a frame
buffer you can cat the frame biffer device into a file to get a
graphics screen capture, not sure though how to convert it into a
standard image format. Just catting it back into the frame buffer will
put the image back on the screen though ;-)

> 
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Re: Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-27 Thread Micha Feigin
On Sun, Jun 27, 2004 at 08:51:50AM -0400, Robert L. Harris wrote:
> 
> 
> OpenOffice.org  I have to write Word documents at work on a semi-daily
> basis for those technically impared and I've yet to have a problem where
> Openoffice wouldn't work.  (Well, MS Project isn't covered but Excel and
> .doc are just great).
> 
> Robert
> 

There are also several latex to rtf converters. You may lose some
formating but it will open under word.

> 
> Thus spake cecil ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> 
> > I just looked on the upcoming syllubus for my CS class. The prof 
> > requires ms word format zipped files for the assignments. What do I do 
> > to do that on linux? I guess I HAVE to install X now. :(
> > 
> > Cecil
> > 
> > 
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Re: Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-27 Thread Allan Wind
On 2004-06-27T07:55:06-0500, cecil wrote:
> And on top of that, I read further, and I need to submit also a screen 
> shot of the running program. Is there anyway to do all this stuff just 
> in the console? I'm not fanatical, I can put on twm.

If you really mean console, redirect, cut&paste or use screen's hardcopy
feature to get a text file.  Convert that as need (for instance,
enscript to get ps, imagemagick's convert to get whatever you need).

If you mean xterm, then you can use imagemagick's import to take a
screen shot (but there are a bunch of tools that can do this).


/Allan


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Re: Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-27 Thread Allan Wind
On 2004-06-27T08:51:50-0400, Robert L. Harris wrote:
> OpenOffice.org  I have to write Word documents at work on a semi-daily
> basis for those technically impared and I've yet to have a problem where
> Openoffice wouldn't work.  (Well, MS Project isn't covered but Excel and
> .doc are just great).

Figures with caption (framed) are buthcered in the process, and there
are some minor issues with export of special character symbols (or
perhaps triggered via an import of word documents).

Other than that, it has worked surprisingly well for me.


/Allan


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Re: Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-27 Thread Paul Fraser
If you're going to be running OpenOffice.org on it, then... hell yes. :|

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 10:57 pm, cecil wrote:
> cecil wrote:
> > I just looked on the upcoming syllubus for my CS class. The prof
> > requires ms word format zipped files for the assignments. What do I do
> > to do that on linux? I guess I HAVE to install X now. :(
> >
> > Cecil
>
> Maybe I should get a different laptop? Is a 150 mhz machine with 2 gig
> hd and 32 meg ram going to be able to do the job? I'm worried now.

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Re: Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-27 Thread cecil
cecil wrote:
I just looked on the upcoming syllubus for my CS class. The prof 
requires ms word format zipped files for the assignments. What do I do 
to do that on linux? I guess I HAVE to install X now. :(

Cecil

Maybe I should get a different laptop? Is a 150 mhz machine with 2 gig 
hd and 32 meg ram going to be able to do the job? I'm worried now.

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Re: Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-27 Thread cecil
cecil wrote:
I just looked on the upcoming syllubus for my CS class. The prof 
requires ms word format zipped files for the assignments. What do I do 
to do that on linux? I guess I HAVE to install X now. :(

Cecil

And on top of that, I read further, and I need to submit also a screen 
shot of the running program. Is there anyway to do all this stuff just 
in the console? I'm not fanatical, I can put on twm.

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Re: Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-27 Thread Robert L. Harris


OpenOffice.org  I have to write Word documents at work on a semi-daily
basis for those technically impared and I've yet to have a problem where
Openoffice wouldn't work.  (Well, MS Project isn't covered but Excel and
.doc are just great).

Robert


Thus spake cecil ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

> I just looked on the upcoming syllubus for my CS class. The prof 
> requires ms word format zipped files for the assignments. What do I do 
> to do that on linux? I guess I HAVE to install X now. :(
> 
> Cecil
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 

:wq!
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  These are MY OPINIONS ALONE.  I speak for no-one else.

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Uh Oh... Prof requires ms word format

2004-06-27 Thread cecil
I just looked on the upcoming syllubus for my CS class. The prof 
requires ms word format zipped files for the assignments. What do I do 
to do that on linux? I guess I HAVE to install X now. :(

Cecil
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