Re: Hello

[mick crane]

On 2022-04-14 23:31, sergioyraul wrote:

Im looking for a version debían gnome non-free with all private
firmware but I install two versions Which I believe were non-free but
they were not.can you  give me a link that complies with that? 


If you have installed something that boots I *think* it is a matter of 
adding contrib and non-free to sources.list.

https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList#Example_sources.list

mick

--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: Hello

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 12:14:42AM -0500, David Wright wrote:
> On Fri 15 Apr 2022 at 00:31:52 (+0200), sergioyraul wrote:
> > Im looking for a version debían gnome non-free with all private firmware 
> > but I install two versions Which I believe were non-free but they were 
> > not.can you  give me a link that complies with that? 
> 
> https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.3.0-live+nonfree/
> 
> after which you need to click on the architecture (amd64/i386), which
> method of delivery (bittorrent/iso), and the DE you want (you said Gnome).
> 
> Cheers,
> David.
>

Hi sergioyraul

You may have problems installing from debian-live CDs - they are not as
well tested. They are also a significant size to download as one file and
are almost unusable on i386 because they require very significant RAM usage.

If you can do a first install from Debian media:

[If you have good network bandwidth and can download packages from the net]

https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/11.3.0+non-free/amd64/iso-cd/firmware-11.3.0-amd64-netinst.iso

This is the 64 bit [For Intel/AMD] netinst.iso - it's a relatively small 
download at 472MB. It does mean that almost all of the packages will need
to be downloaded from the internet.

Alternatively, there is a DVD sized image if your network bandwidth is
slow. This does mean that you have to download a 4GB file.

https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/11.3.0+nonfree/amd64/iso-dvd/firmware-11.3.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso

If you are installing via WiFi, then the installer should pick this up.

In the parent directory, there are links for torrent files.

Hope this helps.

With every good wish,

Andy Cater

Re: Hello

[David Wright]

On Fri 15 Apr 2022 at 00:31:52 (+0200), sergioyraul wrote:
> Im looking for a version debían gnome non-free with all private firmware but 
> I install two versions Which I believe were non-free but they were not.can 
> you  give me a link that complies with that? 

https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/11.3.0-live+nonfree/

after which you need to click on the architecture (amd64/i386), which
method of delivery (bittorrent/iso), and the DE you want (you said Gnome).

Cheers,
David.

Hello

[sergioyraul]

Im looking for a version debían gnome non-free with all private firmware but I 
install two versions Which I believe were non-free but they were not.can you  
give me a link that complies with that? 





Sent using https://www.zoho.com/mail/

Re: Hello, we need to package solanum, a new IRCD server.

[Steve McIntyre]

deb...@polynamaude.com wrote:
>
>On 2021-05-27 4:27 a.m., Joaquín Rufo Gutierrez wrote:
>> Hello, we need to package solanum, a new IRCD server.
>> Git repository: https://github.com/solanum-ircd/solanum
>> <https://github.com/solanum-ircd/solanum>
>
>Let me tell you a story I learned when I was a kid.
>One day a system operator on a BBS I was using offer me to give me a
>hand installing and configuring my own BBS.
>The days passed by amd I asked this guy so often "when" that in decided
>not to help me.
>
>Maybe you shall take this into consideration as everyone is volunteer here.
>
>If you NEED so much this software then I suggest you pay someone to
>package it and as all of the community will be glad to benefit for this.
>
>Because you know, there's many and many more software I'd like to get
>packaged in Debian. This is why I've created many of my own packages and
>even my own repository to hold all those package that ain't in the
>distribution but that I like to use.
>
>You can do the same for Solanum.
>
>But don't ask me to do so
>Because I already know that you'll be harassing to know "when", as you
>don't seem to understand some basis of how community based project work.
>
>Unless you can explain to me why should someone be bound to your own
>agenda ? Because you seem to use the "we" but reading the many
>repetitive message you sent, seems more like a big huge "I".

Please take a step back and re-read what you wrote here. You've read a
*lot* into a short message that I'm guessing may be from a non-native
English speaker. Maybe try and a be a little more welcoming, please?
Simply asking the original poster for a little more explanation of
their meaning wouldn't be hard...

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com
"We're the technical experts.  We were hired so that management could
 ignore our recommendations and tell us how to do our jobs."  -- Mike Andrews

Re: Hello, we need to package solanum, a new IRCD server.

[Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside]

Hi,

On 2021-05-27 4:27 a.m., Joaquín Rufo Gutierrez wrote:
> Hello, we need to package solanum, a new IRCD server.
> Git repository: https://github.com/solanum-ircd/solanum
> <https://github.com/solanum-ircd/solanum>

Let me tell you a story I learned when I was a kid.
One day a system operator on a BBS I was using offer me to give me a
hand installing and configuring my own BBS.
The days passed by amd I asked this guy so often "when" that in decided
not to help me.

Maybe you shall take this into consideration as everyone is volunteer here.

If you NEED so much this software then I suggest you pay someone to
package it and as all of the community will be glad to benefit for this.

Because you know, there's many and many more software I'd like to get
packaged in Debian. This is why I've created many of my own packages and
even my own repository to hold all those package that ain't in the
distribution but that I like to use.

You can do the same for Solanum.

But don't ask me to do so
Because I already know that you'll be harassing to know "when", as you
don't seem to understand some basis of how community based project work.

Unless you can explain to me why should someone be bound to your own
agenda ? Because you seem to use the "we" but reading the many
repetitive message you sent, seems more like a big huge "I".
-- 
Polyna-Maude R.-Summerside
-Be smart, Be wise, Support opensource development



OpenPGP_signature
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Hello, we need to package solanum, a new IRCD server.

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 10:27:13AM +0200, Joaquín Rufo Gutierrez wrote:
> Hello, we need to package solanum, a new IRCD server.
> Git repository: https://github.com/solanum-ircd/solanum

When you say "we", do you mean "my coworkers and I", or do you really
mean "you all", meaning you would like someone else to package it?

If it's the former, you can get started on learning to create Debian
packages by following the New Maintainers' Guide, at
<https://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/>.  Once you've read that and
taken your first baby steps, if you need additional guidance, there's
an IRC channel named #packaging on OFTC which I'm told is a good place
to ask for help.  I've never been there myself.

If it's the latter, you might wish to state the request more explicitly,
so that people know what you actually want.  And... uh... good luck.

Hello, we need to package solanum, a new IRCD server.

[Joaquín Rufo Gutierrez]

Hello, we need to package solanum, a new IRCD server.
Git repository: https://github.com/solanum-ircd/solanum

Re: hello. Please help this big report go in the correct direction....

[didier gaumet]

Le 17/04/2021 à 08:44, Timothy Danielson a écrit :
[...]
I am operating PureOS. I haven't honestly 

[...]
https://www.maketecheasier.com/backup-files-to-google-drive-linux/ 

[...]

Hello,

 From what I gather, PureOS is a Debian derivative with the Gnome Desktop.

 Nautilus, the Gnome file manager can access Google Drive 
out-of-the-box when a Google account is set up :


https://www.howtogeek.com/196635/an-official-google-drive-for-linux-is-here-sort-of-maybe-this-is-all-well-ever-get/
(go directly to the "on gnome desktops" chapter)

If you want to backup/restore to/from Google Sync, you just can use a 
simple Gnome backup tool like Deja-dup (I have verified, it is present 
in PureOS repositories)

 https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/DejaDup

Non need to add a PPA, install google-drive-ocamlfuse or whatever...

Further,
- PureOs is not Debian even if it is based opon it: you would have 
better support inquiring the PureOS community thant the Debian one
- PureOS is not Ubuntu: I do not know exactly the situation but chances 
are that PPA repositories are no better supported in PureOS than in Debian


Cheers

hello. Please help this big report go in the correct direction....

[Timothy Danielson]

Hello,

I apologize for my  mental deficits. (I will leave that story for the end,
don't read it if you feel hurried,) I Respect what you do and I REALLY,
REALLY hate to ask for this level of assistance. I'm using PureOS, which I
guess is a derivative of Debian. I had started with 7.0 (Wheezy) and went
to 8.0. I never had the gonads to use Sid TBH. I ran the stables. Although
I was a TINY variant by running a KDE desktop. I also had XFCE and LXDE?
installed, for really no other reason than I had read about them and
certain authors SWORE by them so I gave them a whirl.

O.K. as I'm sure you will see, I am operating PureOS. I haven't honestly
kept up as well as I would wish as my internet is EXCLUSIVELY through my
cell phone now. (What can I say, it's one of the "wonders" of being poor in
the USA, which is better than poor in any 3rd world country. I'm now
complaining, simply sharing that I'm trying to do my best with what I
have.) Again I digress (OK, I'm 90% digressed! I want to be brief with my
story and after that will be a cut and paste of EVERYTHING I could put on
the screen so you could see what U saw and hope it will give you some
insight into what is going wrong and how t fix the problem. At this point,
I am simply going to hope that this is not 100% the result of my failed
updating.

*PERSONAL STORY*: OK, do NOT read this if pressed for time, however, you
may possibly, in some way  benefit from reading "some other blokes" rough
story. I received my TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury) On February 23rd, 2006.
How do I know this? well, when I was in coma; (from what I experienced was
on the average for those that were able to resume life afterwards;) I had
lost orientation to where and WHEN I was! I had some misunderstandings. I
THOUGHT I was a dew YEARS earlier than when I was and did not know I was
HOME... NOT in the ARMY! So, when I was awoken at 9:00 a.m. and saw the sun
FULLY RISEN, shining in it's blazing glory, not like it i at o'dark thirty
in the morning, i was freaked out! I started getting frustrated at some
poor nurse, (which I later felt SO BAD about my mis-reaction that I made a
trip JUST to apologize to her!) I yelled something to the effect of, "Why
did you wake me for PT so LATE!!! The 1SG (First Sargent) is going to
f*ck!n* kill me! I'll be article 15'ed! I don't want that $hi! (it was
understood in the military article 15 is 1/2 pay + extra duty for 2 weeks +
deferred promotion (which is MORE lost pay,))  (suffice to say, was REALLY,
REALLY, bad! This, was avoided TREMENDOUSLY!)   poor, poor nurse I
wasn't 100% swearing 2 of every 3 words forming a constructive and coherent
sentence... yet. BUT she was able to glimpse down that hall and see the
room on the end.


Long story short again, that was after my INITIAL brain injury which
honestly was HUGE for me! It was like taking a 52 card deck + 2 jokers and
then taking the jokers out and 5 random cards which NOBODY knew WHICH
specific ones were taken out. After that I had a couple shunt "revisions",
which involve me being put to sleep and have them open my head to repair
the "shunt", a device that basically helps my body do what most do
naturally. I woke up 90-95% of who I was before, much like the initial TBI.
but 95% of 95%f 95% is GREAT! when looking at the alternative OF COURSE!
but 95% of 95%f 95% is 85.7%... not terrible but that is on the upper end
too, and a 4the time will be 85.4%

/ if it were even slightly less like 92.5% it would be 79.2% ans 73.2%
respectively. My mistake was being god at math and NOT taking it as a
major! DOH!


as promised, here us *EVERYTHING* from my *terminal window*:


I messed up! there was a process that dely I umped more info and it
overwrote! ARRRGHH! I will try to reproduce it

https://www.maketecheasier.com/backup-files-to-google-drive-linux/

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:alessandro-strada/ppa

sudo apt update && sudo apt install google-drive-ocamlfuse

mkdir -p ~/mount/google-drive

I believe I created this dir and this is where the headaches started:

google-drive-ocamlfuse ~/mount/google-drive

strangely I had a similar readout after I attempted to run
reportbug but i am honestly a bit foggy on what I did:

timdanielson@td546:~$ google-drive-ocamlfuse ~/mount/google-drive
Could not find the database of available applications, run
update-command-not-found as root to fix this
Sorry, command-not-found has crashed! Please file a bug report at:
http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
Please include the following information with the report:

command-not-found version: 0.3
Python version: 3.7.3 final 0
Distributor ID: PureOS
Description:PureOS
Release:9.0
Codename:   amber
Exception information:

local variable 'cnf' referenced before assignment
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/share/command-not-found/CommandNo

Re: hello. Please help this big report go in the correct direction....

[Robbi Nespu]

Hello Tim

On 4/14/21 5:04 PM, Timothy Danielson wrote:


strangely I had a similar readout after I attempted to run reportbug but i 
am honeslty a bit foggy on what I did:

timdanielson@td546:~$ google-drive-ocamlfuse ~/mount/google-drive
Could not find the database of available applications, run 
update-command-not-found as root to fix this
Sorry, command-not-found has crashed! Please file a bug report at:
http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting  <http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting>
Please include the following information with the report:

command-not-found version: 0.3
Python version: 3.7.3 final 0
Distributor ID: PureOS
Description:PureOS
Release:9.0
Codename:   amber
Exception information:

local variable 'cnf' referenced before assignment
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/share/command-not-found/CommandNotFound/util.py", line 23, in 
crash_guard
 callback()
   File "/usr/lib/command-not-found", line 93, in main
 if not cnf.advise(args[0], options.ignore_installed) and not 
options.no_failure_msg:
UnboundLocalError: local variable 'cnf' referenced before assignment


I also foggy what when wrong here. But you may issue the problem on 
upstream here https://github.com/astrada/google-drive-ocamlfuse , it 
also have wiki for some reference there.


As I see there is 2 useful command, which are

$ google-drive-ocamlfuse -cc # to clear the cache
$ google-drive-ocamlfuse -debug mountpoint #  turn on debug logging

and 1 directory located on ~/.gdfuse/default may contain something 
interesting for bug reporting


Anyway, it not much of Debian related, try find some help with upstream.

I don't think you can find some help from you distro, because it already 
dead long time ago, check here 
https://lists.debian.org/debian-derivatives/2014/04/msg9.html and 
https://wiki.debian.org/Derivatives/Census/PureOS and 
https://forums.puri.sm/t/when-was-pureos-initially-released/11576


Why not take a backup and switch to Debian? :)

Since you using KDE, you may check 
https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/kio-gdrive


Check and try to understand https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian 
because I understand most people using Debian derivatives tend to use 
PPA and actually it not encourage and may break your Debian



Likely, upstream google-drive-ocamlfuse seem have clash on licensing too.

If you going to switch to Debian, you may use the unofficial image 
http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/images-including-firmware/ 
which already include non-free firmware.



--
Email : Robbi Nespu 
PGP fingerprint : D311 B5FF EEE6 0BE8 9C91 FA9E 0C81 FA30 3B3A 80BA
PGP key : https://keybase.io/robbinespu/pgp_keys.asc

Re: hello. Please help this big report go in the correct direction....

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

(It seems that Timothy Danielson is not subscribed and missed the answers
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/04/msg00410.html
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/04/msg00411.html
  https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2021/04/msg00412.html
)

In summary plus my own two cents:

The root of the problem is the apparent failure of
  sudo apt install google-drive-ocamlfuse
to install a command "google-drive-ocamlfuse" in reach of the shell.

The lengthy message after
  timdanielson@td546:~$ google-drive-ocamlfuse ~/mount/google-drive
stems from a helper program named "command-not-found" which gets triggered
by the shell because "google-drive-ocamlfuse" was not found.

Debian is said be in charge of the crash of "command-not-found".
It seems to be known since a while and has been worked on recently:
  https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=943989

But "google-drive-ocamlfuse" is not in Debian.

I would expect that the Ubuntu community is more able to debug why the
installation of google-drive-ocamlfuse from PPA failed.
Another approach would be to follow the advise at the bottom of
  https://github.com/astrada/google-drive-ocamlfuse
to open an issue with that problem.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: hello. Please help this big report go in the correct direction....

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Apr 14, 2021 at 12:19:47PM +, Curt wrote:
> I was going to snidely inquire who in their right mind would create an
> executable called 'command-not-found', but then:
> 
> curty@einstein:~$ apt-cache show command-not-found
> 
> ...
> 
>  Description-en: Suggest installation of packages in interactive bash sessions
>   This package will install handler for command_not_found that looks up
>   programs not currently installed but available from the repositories.
> 
> Does this mean if you type 'blender' (a package available in the repositories)
> at the command line and don't happen to have blender installed,
> 'command-not-found' will somehow intervene to suggest installing it? (Question
> purely rhetorical (unless you'd want to answer it).)

Bash has a feature that permits the creation of a function named
command_not_found_handle.  If such a function exists, then instead of
giving the simple, traditional "bash: foobar: command not found"
message, bash will instead execute that function.

unicorn:~$ foobar
bash: foobar: command not found
unicorn:~$ command_not_found_handle() { echo "I'm a little teapot"; }
unicorn:~$ foobar
I'm a little teapot

Apparently the intent of this is to make the user's life better, but in
practice I'm not sure that's how it usually plays out.

I believe Ubuntu installs such a function in every user's bash sessions
by default, and uses it to try to tell the user which package they would
have to install to get the command they were trying to use.  In some cases,
I can see how that might be useful.  But sometimes, a command isn't found
because the user made a typo, or because the user has absolutely no clue
what they're doing, and then the results are just confusing.

Re: hello. Please help this big report go in the correct direction....

[Curt]

On 2021-04-14, Dan Ritter  wrote:
>
> This is not a problem with google-drive-ocamlfuse itself, though
> problems there might exist. This is a problem with a package
> literally called "command-not-found", which PureOS installed.
>

I was going to snidely inquire who in their right mind would create an
executable called 'command-not-found', but then:

curty@einstein:~$ apt-cache show command-not-found

...

 Description-en: Suggest installation of packages in interactive bash sessions
  This package will install handler for command_not_found that looks up
  programs not currently installed but available from the repositories.

Does this mean if you type 'blender' (a package available in the repositories)
at the command line and don't happen to have blender installed,
'command-not-found' will somehow intervene to suggest installing it? (Question
purely rhetorical (unless you'd want to answer it).)

Re: hello. Please help this big report go in the correct direction....

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Wed, Apr 14, 2021 at 06:38:18AM -0400, Dan Ritter wrote:
> Timothy Danielson wrote: 
> > don't read it if you feel huried,) I Respect what you do and I REALLY,
> > REALLY hate to ask for this level of assistance. I'm using PureOS, which I
> > guess is a derivative of Debian. I had started with 7.0 (Wheezy) and went
> > to 8.0. I never had the gonads to use Sid TBH. I ran the stables. Although
> > I ws a TINY variant by running a KDE desktop. I also had XFCE and LXDE?
> > installed, for really no other reason than I had read about them and
> > certain authors SWORE by them so I gave them a whirl.
> 
> 
> It appears that PureOS is a derivative of Debian. That means
> that the people responsible for PureOS changed Debian to suit
> their needs. Nobody outside of PureOS's maintainers and users is
> familiar with what they changed, so Debian users can only offer
> you limited help.
> 
> It looks like PureOS doesn't have a mailing list or forum for
> their users, only a wiki and a bug tracker at:
> 
> https://tracker.pureos.net/
> 
> In this case, there appear to be two issues:
> 
> > I messed up! there was a process that dely I umped more info and it
> > overwrote! ARRRGHH! I will try to reproduce it
> > 
> > https://www.maketecheasier.com/backup-files-to-google-drive-linux/
> > 
> > sudo add-apt-repository ppa:alessandro-strada/ppa
> 

Which distribution is this for? At a guess, Ubuntu since that's what is shown
on screen and _most_ PPAs have been created for Ubuntu.

Contact Alexander Strada is the only advice, I think, if it doesn't work as
a package. You run the risk of creating a FrankenDebian - a mixture from all
sorts of distributions which is almost always a problem in itself. In this 
instance, one package may be relatively easy to fix.

> 
> First issue: nobody except Alessandro Strada knows the contents
> of the packages in this repository. You should seek help from
> him.
> 
> > sudo apt update && sudo apt install google-drive-ocamlfuse
> > 
> > mkdir -p ~/mount/google-drive
> > 
> > I believe I created this dir and this is where the headaches started:
> 
> Creating that directory is unlikely to a problem in and of
> itself.
> 
> > timdanielson@td546:~$ google-drive-ocamlfuse ~/mount/google-drive
> > Could not find the database of available applications, run
> > update-command-not-found as root to fix this
> > Sorry, command-not-found has crashed! Please file a bug report at:
> > http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
> > Please include the following information with the report:
> > 
> > command-not-found version: 0.3
> > Python version: 3.7.3 final 0
> > Distributor ID: PureOS
> > Description:PureOS
> > Release:9.0
> > Codename:   amber
> 
> This is not a problem with google-drive-ocamlfuse itself, though
> problems there might exist. This is a problem with a package
> literally called "command-not-found", which PureOS installed.
> 
> You might fix this problem with
> 
> sudo update-command-not-found
> 
> or that might not help.

command-not-found also exists in Debian. It looks at the command you're trying
to run - if the package isn't installed, it offers to help you install the
package.

The command given above is the command that initialises command-not-found 
database so it is hightly likely that this will work to update an existing
database and fix the problem for you.

All the very best,

Andy C.

> 
> -dsr-
> 

Re: hello. Please help this big report go in the correct direction....

[Dan Ritter]

Timothy Danielson wrote: 
> don't read it if you feel huried,) I Respect what you do and I REALLY,
> REALLY hate to ask for this level of assistance. I'm using PureOS, which I
> guess is a derivative of Debian. I had started with 7.0 (Wheezy) and went
> to 8.0. I never had the gonads to use Sid TBH. I ran the stables. Although
> I ws a TINY variant by running a KDE desktop. I also had XFCE and LXDE?
> installed, for really no other reason than I had read about them and
> certain authors SWORE by them so I gave them a whirl.


It appears that PureOS is a derivative of Debian. That means
that the people responsible for PureOS changed Debian to suit
their needs. Nobody outside of PureOS's maintainers and users is
familiar with what they changed, so Debian users can only offer
you limited help.

It looks like PureOS doesn't have a mailing list or forum for
their users, only a wiki and a bug tracker at:

https://tracker.pureos.net/

In this case, there appear to be two issues:

> I messed up! there was a process that dely I umped more info and it
> overwrote! ARRRGHH! I will try to reproduce it
> 
> https://www.maketecheasier.com/backup-files-to-google-drive-linux/
> 
> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:alessandro-strada/ppa


First issue: nobody except Alessandro Strada knows the contents
of the packages in this repository. You should seek help from
him.

> sudo apt update && sudo apt install google-drive-ocamlfuse
> 
> mkdir -p ~/mount/google-drive
> 
> I believe I created this dir and this is where the headaches started:

Creating that directory is unlikely to a problem in and of
itself.

> timdanielson@td546:~$ google-drive-ocamlfuse ~/mount/google-drive
> Could not find the database of available applications, run
> update-command-not-found as root to fix this
> Sorry, command-not-found has crashed! Please file a bug report at:
> http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
> Please include the following information with the report:
> 
> command-not-found version: 0.3
> Python version: 3.7.3 final 0
> Distributor ID: PureOS
> Description:PureOS
> Release:9.0
> Codename:   amber

This is not a problem with google-drive-ocamlfuse itself, though
problems there might exist. This is a problem with a package
literally called "command-not-found", which PureOS installed.

You might fix this problem with

sudo update-command-not-found

or that might not help.

-dsr-

hello. Please help this big report go in the correct direction....

[Timothy Danielson]

Hello,

I apologize for my  mental deficits. (I will leave that story for the end,
don't read it if you feel huried,) I Respect what you do and I REALLY,
REALLY hate to ask for this level of assistance. I'm using PureOS, which I
guess is a derivative of Debian. I had started with 7.0 (Wheezy) and went
to 8.0. I never had the gonads to use Sid TBH. I ran the stables. Although
I ws a TINY variant by running a KDE desktop. I also had XFCE and LXDE?
installed, for really no other reason than I had read about them and
certain authors SWORE by them so I gave them a whirl.

O.K. as i'm sure you will see, I am operating PureOS. I haven't honestly
kept up as well as I would wish as my internet is EXCLUSIVELY through my
cell phone now. (What can I say, it's one of the "wonders" of being poor in
the USA, which is better than poor in any 3rd world country. I'm now
complaining, simply sharing that I'm trying to do my best with what I
have.) Again I digress (OK, I'm 90% digressed! I wY to be brief with my
story and after that will be a cut and paste of EVERYTHING I xould put on
the screen so you could see what U saw and hope it will give you some
insight into what is going wrong and how t fix the problem. At this point,
I am siply going to hopr yhat this is not 100% the result of my failed
updating.

*PERSONAL STORY*: Ok, do NOT read this if pressed for time, however, you
may possibly, in some way  benefit from reading "some other blokes" rough
story. I recieved my TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury) On Februry 23rd, 2006.
How do I know this? well, when I was in coma; (from what I experienced was
on the average for those that were able to resume life afterwards;) I had
lost orientation to where and WHEN I was! I had some misunderstandings. I
THOUGHT I was a dew YEARS earlier than when I was and did not know I was
HOME... NOT in the ARMY! So, when I was awoken at 9:00 a.m. and saw the sun
FULLY RISEN, shining in it's blazing glory, not like it i at o'dark thirty
in the morning, i was freaked out! I started getting frustrated at some
poor nurse, (which I later felt SO BAD about my mis-reaction that I made a
trip JUST to apologize to her!) I yelled something to the effect of, "Why
did you wake me for PT so LATE!!! The 1SG (First Sargent) is going to
f*ck!n* kill me! I'll be article 15'ed! I don't want that $hi! (it was
understood in the military article 15 is 1/2 pay + extra duty for 2 weeks +
deferred promotion (which is MORE lost pay,))  (suffice to say, was REALLY,
REALLY, bad! Thuse, was avoided TREMENDOUSLY!)   poor, poor nurse I
wsn't 100% swering 2 of every 3 words forming a constructive and coherent
sentence... yet. BUT she was able to glimse down that hall nd see the room
on the end.


Long story short again, that was after my INITIAL brain injury which
honestly was HUGE for me! It was like taking a 52 card deck + 2 jokers and
then taking the jokers out and 5 random cards which NOBODY knew WHICH
specific ones were taken out. After that I had a couple shunt "revisions",
which involve me being put to sleep and have them open my head to repair
the "shunt", a device that basically helps my body do what most do
naturally. I wke up 90-95% of who I was before, much like the initial TBI.
but 95% of 95%f 95% is GREAT! wgn looking at the alternative OF COURSE! but
95% of 95%f 95% is 85.7%... not terrible but that is on the upper end too,
and a 4th time will be 85.4%

/ if it were even slightly less like 92.5% it would be 79.2% ans 73.2%
respectively. My mistake was being god at math and NOT takinf it as a
major! DOH!


as promised, here us *EVERYTHING* from my *terminal window*:


I messed up! there was a process that dely I umped more info and it
overwrote! ARRRGHH! I will try to reproduce it

https://www.maketecheasier.com/backup-files-to-google-drive-linux/

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:alessandro-strada/ppa

sudo apt update && sudo apt install google-drive-ocamlfuse

mkdir -p ~/mount/google-drive

I believe I created this dir and this is where the headaches started:

google-drive-ocamlfuse ~/mount/google-drive

strangely I had a similar readout after I attempted to run
reportbug but i am honeslty a bit foggy on what I did:

timdanielson@td546:~$ google-drive-ocamlfuse ~/mount/google-drive
Could not find the database of available applications, run
update-command-not-found as root to fix this
Sorry, command-not-found has crashed! Please file a bug report at:
http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting
Please include the following information with the report:

command-not-found version: 0.3
Python version: 3.7.3 final 0
Distributor ID: PureOS
Description:PureOS
Release:9.0
Codename:   amber
Exception information:

local variable 'cnf' referenced before assignment
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/share/command-not-found/CommandNotFound/util.py", line

Hello

[Harry Arthur Foundation]

We have donation for you contact us for more info.

Thank You
Harry Arthur Foundation.

Re: g++ can't build "Hello World" programm

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 02:01:18AM +0600, Evgeny wrote:
> Problems gone when i reinstalled libc6-dev, now hello world compiling fine,
> but the problem is that after removing lib6c-dev a lot of other packages
> was deleted and when I trying to install them back I have error (Unable to
> correct problems, you have held broken packages)

Phew :-)

You might try

  apt-get -s install --fix-broken

(the -s is for "simulate": then you can see what apt-get would do. You don't
need sudo while simulating).

If you like what the system proposes, then

  sudo apt-get install --fix-broken

> Anyway, thanks a lot, I finally figured it out

Glad you found it!

Cheers
- -- tomás
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAlnnuf8ACgkQBcgs9XrR2kZaXgCfTrOwIWGgJ2z/B16EZsfelSX0
q0sAoIEEilHIiTIRjMDdReDpNvG96ovG
=nlbf
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: g++ can't build "Hello World" programm

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Evgeny wrote:
> any
> "bits/locale.h" among indlude files that you listed have already existed in
> my system. but g++ continue give me error message that there is no such file
> or directory

What do you get from

  g++ -o test -H test.cpp

If i rename my local
  /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/locale.h
then i get exactly your error message:

  ... /usr/include/locale.h
   /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.9/include/stddef.h
  In file included from /usr/include/c++/4.9/clocale:42:0,
 from /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/c++/4.9/bits/c++locale.h:41,
 from /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/localefwd.h:40,
 from /usr/include/c++/4.9/ios:41,
 from /usr/include/c++/4.9/ostream:38,
 from /usr/include/c++/4.9/iostream:39,
 from test.cpp:1:
  /usr/include/locale.h:29:25: fatal error: bits/locale.h: No such file or 
directory

My g++ version is like yours
  g++ (Debian 4.9.2-10) 4.9.2


> -I/way-to-the-missing-lib,

The path up to but not including "bits" idid not help ?
Like:

  -I /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/


> What can it be?

Is the the file name invisibly altered ?
What do you get when explicitely asking for its path:

  ls -ld '/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/locale.h'


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: g++ can't build "Hello World" programm

[Evgeny]

Problems gone when i reinstalled libc6-dev, now hello world compiling fine,
but the problem is that after removing lib6c-dev a lot of other packages
was deleted and when I trying to install them back I have error (Unable to
correct problems, you have held broken packages)

Anyway, thanks a lot, I finally figured it out

2017-10-19 1:20 GMT+06:00 :

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 01:04:05AM +0600, Evgeny wrote:
> > Thanks all for answers, libc6-dev was installed. And more intresting, any
> > "bits/locale.h" among indlude files that you listed have already existed
> in
> > my system. but g++ continue give me error message that there is no such
> > file or directory
> >
> > even if I use -I/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/ flag or add directory in
> > cmake include directories
> >
> > What can it be?
>
> Strange. I'd try to eliminate actors one by one. What happens if you bypass
> cmake and call g++ directly?
>
> Another approach is to call g++ under strace and see what files it tries
> to open (caution: this will produce copious output: use the -o option
> to let strace write to a file, and the -f option to follow the process
> forks, I'd expect g++ to spawn quite a few subprocesses).
>
> Or just re-install g++ and all the "interesting" libs: likely there's
> something broken in your setup.
>
> Are you sure you're calling the g++ you think you are calling?
>
> Cheers
> - -- tomás
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAlnnqYUACgkQBcgs9XrR2kaTsQCeJFZ7BLtE7yquaj7sxrIMGGWQ
> mjUAn2bvDioeqkd4JcbG/VgGTLH6Gdu4
> =O6jp
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>

Re: g++ can't build "Hello World" programm

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 01:04:05AM +0600, Evgeny wrote:
> Thanks all for answers, libc6-dev was installed. And more intresting, any
> "bits/locale.h" among indlude files that you listed have already existed in
> my system. but g++ continue give me error message that there is no such
> file or directory
> 
> even if I use -I/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/ flag or add directory in
> cmake include directories
> 
> What can it be?

Strange. I'd try to eliminate actors one by one. What happens if you bypass
cmake and call g++ directly?

Another approach is to call g++ under strace and see what files it tries
to open (caution: this will produce copious output: use the -o option
to let strace write to a file, and the -f option to follow the process
forks, I'd expect g++ to spawn quite a few subprocesses).

Or just re-install g++ and all the "interesting" libs: likely there's
something broken in your setup.

Are you sure you're calling the g++ you think you are calling?

Cheers
- -- tomás
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAlnnqYUACgkQBcgs9XrR2kaTsQCeJFZ7BLtE7yquaj7sxrIMGGWQ
mjUAn2bvDioeqkd4JcbG/VgGTLH6Gdu4
=O6jp
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: g++ can't build "Hello World" programm

[Greg Wooledge]

On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 01:04:05AM +0600, Evgeny wrote:
> Thanks all for answers, libc6-dev was installed. And more intresting, any
> "bits/locale.h" among indlude files that you listed have already existed in
> my system. but g++ continue give me error message that there is no such
> file or directory

You need more than libc6-dev for C++ programs.  There are C++ specific
library packages.

Installing build-essential should be your first step.

Re: g++ can't build "Hello World" programm

[Evgeny]

Thanks all for answers, libc6-dev was installed. And more intresting, any
"bits/locale.h" among indlude files that you listed have already existed in
my system. but g++ continue give me error message that there is no such
file or directory

even if I use -I/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/ flag or add directory in
cmake include directories

What can it be?

2017-10-13 20:42 GMT+06:00 Thomas Schmitt :

> Hi,
>
> i can compile the test program on my amd64 Debian 8.
>
> Google and
>   https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5834778/how-to-tell-
> where-a-header-file-is-included-from
> caused me to run
>
>   $ g++ -H test.cpp
>
> to see all included files.
> Maybe it helps you to find what's missing on your system or where
> your local include empire derails:
>
>   . /usr/include/c++/4.9/iostream
>   .. /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/c++/4.9/bits/c++config.h
>   ... /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/c++/4.9/bits/os_defines.h
>    /usr/include/features.h
>   . /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/sys/cdefs.h
>   .. /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/wordsize.h
>   . /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/gnu/stubs.h
>   .. /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/gnu/stubs-64.h
>   ... /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/c++/4.9/bits/cpu_defines.h
>   .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/ostream
>   ... /usr/include/c++/4.9/ios
>    /usr/include/c++/4.9/iosfwd
>   . /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/stringfwd.h
>   .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/memoryfwd.h
>   . /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/postypes.h
>   .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/cwchar
>   ... /usr/include/wchar.h
>    /usr/include/stdio.h
>    /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.9/include/stdarg.h
>    /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/wchar.h
>    /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.9/include/stddef.h
>    /usr/include/xlocale.h
>    /usr/include/c++/4.9/exception
>   . /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/atomic_lockfree_defines.h
>    /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/char_traits.h
>   . /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/stl_algobase.h
>   .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/functexcept.h
>   ... /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/exception_defines.h
>   .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/cpp_type_traits.h
>   .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/ext/type_traits.h
>   .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/ext/numeric_traits.h
>   .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/stl_pair.h
>   ... /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/move.h
>    /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/concept_check.h
>   .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/stl_iterator_base_types.h
>   .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/stl_iterator_base_funcs.h
>   ... /usr/include/c++/4.9/debug/debug.h
>   .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/stl_iterator.h
>   ... /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/ptr_traits.h
>   .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/predefined_ops.h
>   . /usr/include/c++/4.9/cwchar
>   .. /usr/include/wchar.h
>    /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/localefwd.h
>   . /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/c++/4.9/bits/c++locale.h
>   .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/clocale
>   ... /usr/include/locale.h
>    /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.9/include/stddef.h
>    /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/locale.h
>   . /usr/include/c++/4.9/cctype
>   .. /usr/include/ctype.h
>   ... /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/types.h
>    /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/wordsize.h
>    /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/typesizes.h
>   ... /usr/include/endian.h
>    /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/endian.h
>    /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/byteswap.h
>   . /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/wordsize.h
>   . /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/byteswap-16.h
>    /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/ios_base.h
>   . /usr/include/c++/4.9/ext/atomicity.h
>   .. /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/c++/4.9/bits/gthr.h
>   ... /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/c++/4.9/bits/gthr-default.h
>    /usr/include/pthread.h
>   . /usr/include/sched.h
>   .. /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.9/include/stddef.h
>   .. /usr/include/time.h
>   .. /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/sched.h
>   . /usr/include/time.h
>   .. /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.9/include/stddef.h
>   .. /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/time.h
>   ... /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/timex.h
>   . /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/pthreadtypes.h
>   .. /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/wordsize.h
>   . /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/setjmp.h
>   .. /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/wordsize.h
>   . /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/wordsize.h
>   .. /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/c++/4.9/bits/atomic_word.h
>   . /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/locale_classes.h
>   .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/string
>   ... /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/allocator.h
>    /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/c++/4.9/bits/c++allocator.h
>   . /usr/include/c++/4.9/ext/new_allocator.h
>   .. /usr/include/c++/4.

Re: g++ can't build "Hello World" programm

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

i can compile the test program on my amd64 Debian 8.

Google and
  
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5834778/how-to-tell-where-a-header-file-is-included-from
caused me to run 

  $ g++ -H test.cpp

to see all included files.
Maybe it helps you to find what's missing on your system or where
your local include empire derails:

  . /usr/include/c++/4.9/iostream
  .. /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/c++/4.9/bits/c++config.h
  ... /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/c++/4.9/bits/os_defines.h
   /usr/include/features.h
  . /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/sys/cdefs.h
  .. /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/wordsize.h
  . /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/gnu/stubs.h
  .. /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/gnu/stubs-64.h
  ... /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/c++/4.9/bits/cpu_defines.h
  .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/ostream
  ... /usr/include/c++/4.9/ios
   /usr/include/c++/4.9/iosfwd
  . /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/stringfwd.h
  .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/memoryfwd.h
  . /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/postypes.h
  .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/cwchar
  ... /usr/include/wchar.h
   /usr/include/stdio.h
   /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.9/include/stdarg.h
   /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/wchar.h
   /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.9/include/stddef.h
   /usr/include/xlocale.h
   /usr/include/c++/4.9/exception
  . /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/atomic_lockfree_defines.h
   /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/char_traits.h
  . /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/stl_algobase.h
  .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/functexcept.h
  ... /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/exception_defines.h
  .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/cpp_type_traits.h
  .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/ext/type_traits.h
  .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/ext/numeric_traits.h
  .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/stl_pair.h
  ... /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/move.h
   /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/concept_check.h
  .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/stl_iterator_base_types.h
  .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/stl_iterator_base_funcs.h
  ... /usr/include/c++/4.9/debug/debug.h
  .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/stl_iterator.h
  ... /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/ptr_traits.h
  .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/predefined_ops.h
  . /usr/include/c++/4.9/cwchar
  .. /usr/include/wchar.h
   /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/localefwd.h
  . /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/c++/4.9/bits/c++locale.h
  .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/clocale
  ... /usr/include/locale.h
   /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.9/include/stddef.h
   /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/locale.h
  . /usr/include/c++/4.9/cctype
  .. /usr/include/ctype.h
  ... /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/types.h
   /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/wordsize.h
   /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/typesizes.h
  ... /usr/include/endian.h
   /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/endian.h
   /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/byteswap.h
  . /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/wordsize.h
  . /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/byteswap-16.h
   /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/ios_base.h
  . /usr/include/c++/4.9/ext/atomicity.h
  .. /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/c++/4.9/bits/gthr.h
  ... /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/c++/4.9/bits/gthr-default.h
   /usr/include/pthread.h
  . /usr/include/sched.h
  .. /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.9/include/stddef.h
  .. /usr/include/time.h
  .. /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/sched.h
  . /usr/include/time.h
  .. /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.9/include/stddef.h
  .. /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/time.h
  ... /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/timex.h
  . /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/pthreadtypes.h
  .. /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/wordsize.h
  . /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/setjmp.h
  .. /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/wordsize.h
  . /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/wordsize.h
  .. /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/c++/4.9/bits/atomic_word.h
  . /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/locale_classes.h
  .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/string
  ... /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/allocator.h
   /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/c++/4.9/bits/c++allocator.h
  . /usr/include/c++/4.9/ext/new_allocator.h
  .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/new
  ... /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/ostream_insert.h
   /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/cxxabi_forced.h
  ... /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/stl_function.h
   /usr/include/c++/4.9/backward/binders.h
  ... /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/range_access.h
  ... /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/basic_string.h
  ... /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/basic_string.tcc
  .. /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/locale_classes.tcc
   /usr/include/c++/4.9/streambuf
  . /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/streambuf.tcc
   /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/basic_ios.h
  . /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/loca

Re: g++ can't build "Hello World" programm

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 09:17:32AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 07:11:28PM +0600, Evgeny wrote:
> > error: bits/locale.h: No such file or directory
> 
> Make sure build-essential is installed.
> 
> >  #include 
> >  ^
> > compilation terminated.
> 
> Make sure the file uses Unix newline (line feed) terminators, and not
> Microsoft's CR-LF terminators.

This is a good point too!

But a quick test on my box seems to suggest that GCC just doesn't care.
It seems to treat CR as normal whitespace. A minimal hello world stored
with DOS line endings compiles and runs fine.

Cheers
- -- tomás
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lYkAn3lVxeogfaaNXh/Ar34ZqgRFndaW
=yWxe
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Re: g++ can't build "Hello World" programm

[tomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 07:11:28PM +0600, Evgeny wrote:
> Dear all, i have some problems with ,  etc. libraries on
> my debian.
> 
> I have pretty simple code:
> 
>   #include 
> 
> using namespace std;
> 
> int main(void) {
> 
> cout << "Hello World!" << endl;
> return 0;
> }
> 
> And when i try to compile it, compiler gives me error:
> 
> evgeny@debian:~/Documents/Programming$ g++ test.cpp -o testIn file
> included from /usr/include/c++/4.9/clocale:42:0,
>  from
> /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/c++/4.9/32/bits/c++locale.h:41,
>  from /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/localefwd.h:40,
>  from /usr/include/c++/4.9/ios:41,
>  from /usr/include/c++/4.9/ostream:38,
>  from /usr/include/c++/4.9/iostream:39,
>  from test.cpp:1:/usr/include/locale.h:29:25: fatal
> error: bits/locale.h: No such file or directory
>  #include 
>  ^
> compilation terminated.

Seems the compiler doesn't find /usr/include/bits/locale.h. Is that
file there? (if you have multi-arch support (I guess you have( it will
be in /usr/include//bits/locale.h, where  is the architecture
you're compiling for, e.g. "x86_64-linux-gnu" or "arm-linux-gnueabihf"
or something similar).

This file comes with libc6-dev. I didn't see that one in the list
you provided, but I may have missed it.

Cheers
- -- tomás
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fW0An0Q+fOGF1ShnC1VHWfYKYm16exCw
=Y+5x
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Re: g++ can't build "Hello World" programm

[Greg Wooledge]

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 07:11:28PM +0600, Evgeny wrote:
> error: bits/locale.h: No such file or directory

Make sure build-essential is installed.

>  #include 
>  ^
> compilation terminated.

Make sure the file uses Unix newline (line feed) terminators, and not
Microsoft's CR-LF terminators.  (Though it's probably the missing
packages.)

g++ can't build "Hello World" programm

[Evgeny]

Dear all, i have some problems with ,  etc. libraries on
my debian.

I have pretty simple code:

  #include 

using namespace std;

int main(void) {

cout << "Hello World!" << endl;
return 0;
}

And when i try to compile it, compiler gives me error:

evgeny@debian:~/Documents/Programming$ g++ test.cpp -o testIn file
included from /usr/include/c++/4.9/clocale:42:0,
 from
/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/c++/4.9/32/bits/c++locale.h:41,
 from /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/localefwd.h:40,
 from /usr/include/c++/4.9/ios:41,
 from /usr/include/c++/4.9/ostream:38,
 from /usr/include/c++/4.9/iostream:39,
 from test.cpp:1:/usr/include/locale.h:29:25: fatal
error: bits/locale.h: No such file or directory
 #include 
 ^
compilation terminated.


I've installed libstdc++-developer, build-essentials, tried to use
-I/way-to-the-missing-lib, different architecture keys etc., but it doesn't
work as well.

Architecture info Linux debian 3.16.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian
3.16.43-2+deb8u5 (2017-09-19) x86_64 GNU/Linux

OS Debian 8.9

g++ version g++ (Debian 4.9.2-10) 4.9.2

installed C++ packages list:

my problem that I simply can't compile Hello World programm with g++

#include 

using namespace std;

    int main(void) {

cout << "Hello World!" << endl;
return 0;
}

Compiler gave me message:

evgeny@debian:~/Documents/Programming$ g++ test.cpp -o testIn file
included from /usr/include/c++/4.9/clocale:42:0,
 from
/usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/c++/4.9/32/bits/c++locale.h:41,
 from /usr/include/c++/4.9/bits/localefwd.h:40,
 from /usr/include/c++/4.9/ios:41,
 from /usr/include/c++/4.9/ostream:38,
 from /usr/include/c++/4.9/iostream:39,
 from test.cpp:1:/usr/include/locale.h:29:25: fatal
error: bits/locale.h: No such file or directory
 #include 
 ^
compilation terminated.

I've installed libstdc++-developer, tried to use -I/way-to-the-missing-lib,
different architecture keys etc., but it doesn't work as well.

Architecture info Linux debian 3.16.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian
3.16.43-2+deb8u5 (2017-09-19) x86_64 GNU/Linux

OS Debian 8.9

g++ version g++ (Debian 4.9.2-10) 4.9.2

installed packages list:

evgeny@debian:~$ dpkg --list | grep c++
ii  lib32stdc++-4.9-dev   4.9.2-10
  amd64GNU Standard C++ Library v3 (development
files)
ii  lib32stdc++6  4.9.2-10
  amd64GNU Standard C++ Library v3 (32 bit
Version)
ii  libflac++6:amd64  1.3.0-3
  amd64Free Lossless Audio Codec - C++ runtime
library
ii  libgpgme++2   4:4.14.2-2+deb8u2
  amd64c++ wrapper library for gpgme
ii  libsigc++-2.0-0c2a:amd64  2.4.0-1
  amd64type-safe Signal Framework for C++ -
runtime
ii  libstdc++-4.9-dev:amd64   4.9.2-10
  amd64GNU Standard C++ Library v3 (development
files)
ii  libstdc++6:amd64  4.9.2-10
  amd64GNU Standard C++ Library v3
ii  libx32stdc++-4.9-dev  4.9.2-10
  amd64GNU Standard C++ Library v3 (development
files)
ii  libx32stdc++6 4.9.2-10


Any suggestions? Thank you in advance.

Re: Fwd: Fwd: hello, do chromium have newer version update for jessie??

[Salvatore Bonaccorso]

Hi

On Fri, Aug 18, 2017 at 10:47:55PM +0800, 王则兵 wrote:
> no respond till now.

See https://lists.debian.org/debian-security/2017/07/msg9.html and
following replies in
https://lists.debian.org/debian-lts/2017/08/msg00059.html .

Regards,
Salvatore

Fwd: Fwd: hello, do chromium have newer version update for jessie??

[王则兵]

no respond till now.



 Forwarded Message 
Subject:Fwd: hello, do chromium have newer version update??
Date:   Sun, 6 Aug 2017 08:41:19 +0800
From:   王则兵 
To: mgilb...@debian.org



thanks a lot,

[4]https://www.debian.org/security/2017/dsa-3926



 Forwarded Message 
Subject:hello, do chromium have newer version update??
Date:   Thu, 27 Jul 2017 18:58:59 +0800
From:   王则兵 
To: iucul...@debian.org



sorry, not a native english speaker.

i use debian8.9, and chromium Version 57.0.2987.98 Built on 8.7, running
on Debian 8.9 (64-bit)


does it have newer version security/update during the old-stable and lts
term??

thank you...



[0]https://www.debian.org/News/2017/2017072202

[1]
https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=sourcenames&keywords=chromium-browser

[2]https://wiki.debian.org/LTS

[3]
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#browser-security

Re: Hello

[Darac Marjal]

On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 01:45:08PM +1000, julius wrote:

I have problems with updating debian stretch you people say that
ftp mirrors are not going to serve debian any more i am in australia .I
am not a good command line user only the basics and a lot of reading
from forums on problems to solve but still i get it done now you
refer to switch to something like this on your web page..
On my attach there is a copy of the apt-get update/upgrade

5.1.2. FTP access to Debian hosted mirrors will be removed

Debian hosted mirrors will stop providing FTP access. If you have been
using the ftp: protocol in your sources.list, please migrate to http:.
Please consider the following example for migrating:

deb http://deb.debian.org/debian  stretch main
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates main

# tor variant (requires apt-transport-tor)
# deb  tor+http://vwakviie2ienjx6t.onion/debian  stretch   
 main
# deb  tor+http://sgvtcaew4bxjd7ln.onion/debian-security
stretch/updatesmain


[-- This is an attachment (use 'v' to view this part) --]

In your attachment, I see the following error:


The key(s) in the keyring /etc/apt/trusted.gpg are ignored as
the file is not readable by user '_apt' executing apt-key."


There was discussion recently suggesting that this was a bug in
synaptic. If the size of  /etc/apt/trusted.gpg  is quite small (either
zero, or just a few dozen bytes), then try moving it out of the way (for
example "mv /etc/apt/trusted.gpg{,.old}"), then running apt again.

--
For more information, please reread.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Hello

[Michael Lange]

Hi,

On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 15:20:10 +1000
julius  wrote:

(...)
> 
> http://security.debian.org/dists/stretch/updates/InRelease:
> The key(s)
> in the keyring /etc/apt/trusted.gpg are ignored as the
> file is not
> readable by user '_apt' executing
> apt-
> key.http://deb.debian.org/debian/dists/stretch-updates/InRelease:
> The
> key(s) in the keyring /etc/apt/trusted.gpg are ignored as the
> file is
> not readable by user '_apt' executing
> apt-
> key.http://deb.debian.org/debian/dists/stretch/Release.gpg: The
> key(s)
> in the keyring /etc/apt/trusted.gpg are ignored as the file is
> not
> readable by user '_apt' executing apt-key.The repository
> 'http://deb.deb
> ian.org/debian stretch/updates Release' does not have
> a Release file.

I did not encounter this issue myself, so I cannot tell for sure, but
some posts I have been reading seem to suggest that modifying the
permissions of the file /etc/apt/trusted.gpg might help with this. It
seems that on Jessie this file's permissions are 0600 (meaning only
owner (root) may read and write this file) whereas in stretch it should be
0644, which means that the owner (root) can read+write and group&other
may read the file.
So my suggestion: change the permissions of /etc/apt/trusted.gpg and try
again and tell us if this helped.

Regards

Michael


.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

Conquest is easy. Control is not.
-- Kirk, "Mirror, Mirror", stardate unknown

Hello

[julius]

I have problems with updating debian stretch you people say that
ftp mirrors are not going to serve debian any more i am in australia .I
am not a good command line user only the basics and a lot of reading
from forums on problems to solve but still i get it done now you
refer to switch to something like this on your web page..
On my attach there is a copy of the apt-get update/upgrade

5.1.2. FTP access to Debian hosted mirrors will be removed

Debian hosted mirrors will stop providing FTP access. If you have been
using the ftp: protocol in your sources.list, please migrate to http:.
Please consider the following example for migrating:

deb http://deb.debian.org/debian  stretch main
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates main

# tor variant (requires apt-transport-tor)
# deb  tor+http://vwakviie2ienjx6t.onion/debian  stretch   
 main
# deb  tor+http://sgvtcaew4bxjd7ln.onion/debian-security
stretch/updatesmain


And this is the rest of it,I tried to change it at the SINAPTIC PACKAGE
  
MANAGER .Can you explain it to me please forgive my ignorance my
knowledge is limited



http://security.debian.org/dists/stretch/updates/InRelease:
The key(s)
in the keyring /etc/apt/trusted.gpg are ignored as the
file is not
readable by user '_apt' executing
apt-
key.http://deb.debian.org/debian/dists/stretch-updates/InRelease:
The
key(s) in the keyring /etc/apt/trusted.gpg are ignored as the
file is
not readable by user '_apt' executing
apt-
key.http://deb.debian.org/debian/dists/stretch/Release.gpg: The
key(s)
in the keyring /etc/apt/trusted.gpg are ignored as the file is
not
readable by user '_apt' executing apt-key.The repository
'http://deb.deb
ian.org/debian stretch/updates Release' does not have
a Release file.




apt-get.odt
Description: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text

Re: Hello

[Ben Caradoc-Davies]

On 18/07/17 15:45, julius wrote:

I have problems with updating debian stretch you people say that
ftp mirrors are not going to serve debian any more i am in australia


iiNet are listed as a secondary mirror:
http://ftp.iinet.net.au/debian/debian/

The full list of mirrors:
https://www.debian.org/mirror/list

The iiNet mirror worked well for me when I was in Perth. The WAIA mirror 
is also on WAIX.


Where in Australia are you?

Kind regards,

--
Ben Caradoc-Davies 
Director
Transient Software Limited 
New Zealand

Hello

[julius]

I have problems with updating debian stretch you people say that
ftp mirrors are not going to serve debian any more i am in australia .I
am not a good command line user only the basics and a lot of reading
from forums on problems to solve but still i get it done now you
refer to switch to something like this on your web page..
On my attach there is a copy of the apt-get update/upgrade

5.1.2. FTP access to Debian hosted mirrors will be removed

Debian hosted mirrors will stop providing FTP access. If you have been
using the ftp: protocol in your sources.list, please migrate to http:.
Please consider the following example for migrating:

deb http://deb.debian.org/debian  stretch main
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian-security stretch/updates main

# tor variant (requires apt-transport-tor)
# deb  tor+http://vwakviie2ienjx6t.onion/debian  stretch   
 main
# deb  tor+http://sgvtcaew4bxjd7ln.onion/debian-security
stretch/updatesmain

apt-get.odt
Description: application/vnd.oasis.opendocument.text

Hello debian

[Lugo Teehalt]

Hi debian



http://www.salimgroup.com.au/errorpage.php?temperature=s21yh58smt2q



Lugo Teehalt

Re: Hello Debian

[Stuart Longland]

On 02/06/16 20:48, Pier wrote:
> http://…
> pierg75@…

Yes, that's a URL and an email address.  Well done.  Now try again with
some actual relevant (to the list) content this time.
-- 
Stuart Longland (aka Redhatter, VK4MSL)

I haven't lost my mind...
  ...it's backed up on a tape somewhere.



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

HELLO dear

[Pamela Kimani]

my name is miss pamela i come across to your Facebook profile write me back as 
soon as posible i have some thing very important to discuse with you 
(pamelakim...@outlook.com)

Re: Hello! I have a problem.

[Sven Arvidsson]

On Thu, 2015-05-21 at 17:24 +, rst-...@hushmail.com wrote:
> Hello! I have a problem. Exactly what is happening (in this case) - a
> lot of cases it was 
>  I Debian Whezzy 7.6. This, like, never happened before. The server
> has a name blumka.ru (IP 94.158.174.165).
> At 3:00 Moscow time worked like normal. Tonight is not responding. The
> real situation is this - the server is running, noise and flash the
> network card, but when I try to see something on the screen says that
> there is no video signal. All contacts tightly. The graphics card and
> processor were recently thermo missed the mark. In case of overheating
> the computer just shuts down. A black screen is flashing NIC and
> Apache2.2 not ale. This successful attempt to attack? 

Hi,

What you describe sounds like a kernel panic, and/or a possible hardware
problem. 

It might be an attack, but it's much more likely a bug in the kernel, a
bug in a driver for your hardware or hardware
overheating/malfunctioning.

After rebooting see if there's anything in the log files. You can follow
this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DebuggingSystemCrash

Hope this helps,

-- 
Cheers,
Sven Arvidsson
http://www.whiz.se
PGP Key ID 6FAB5CD5




signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Hello! I have a problem.

[rst-ack]

Hello! I have a problem. Exactly what is happening (in this case) - a
lot of cases it was 
 I Debian Whezzy 7.6. This, like, never happened before. The server
has a name blumka.ru (IP 94.158.174.165).
At 3:00 Moscow time worked like normal. Tonight is not responding. The
real situation is this - the server is running, noise and flash the
network card, but when I try to see something on the screen says that
there is no video signal. All contacts tightly. The graphics card and
processor were recently thermo missed the mark. In case of overheating
the computer just shuts down. A black screen is flashing NIC and
Apache2.2 not ale. This successful attempt to attack? 

Hello! I have a problem.

[rst-ack]

Hello! I have a problem. Exactly what is happening (in this case) - a
lot of cases it was 
 I Debian Whezzy 7.6. This, like, never happened before. The server
has a name blumka.ru (IP 94.158.174.165).
At 3:00 Moscow time worked like normal. Tonight is not responding. The
real situation is this - the server is running, noise and flash the
network card, but when I try to see something on the screen says that
there is no video signal. All contacts tightly. The graphics card and
processor were recently thermo missed the mark. In case of overheating
the computer just shuts down. A black screen is flashing NIC and
Apache2.2 not ale. This successful attempt to attack? 

Finally I'm seeing some benefits of `systemd`... For a future without Xorg (say hello to Wayland) and with multi-seat everywhere!

[Martinx - ジェームズ]

Guys,

 For months, I was reluctant to move to `systemd` but, right now, for
the first time, I'm seeing some benefits of using it, let me try to
explain...

 For years, I looked for an alternative (DirectFB, for example) Linux
GUI environment that doesn't use Xorg, it is slow, bloated and old
fashioned... Then, `Wayland` appeared! If I'm not wrong, this "new era
of Desktop Linux" started after Linux 2.6.28 and .29, with the
inclusion of GEM and KMS... Good times, BTW!

 Now, I'm trying to build Enlightenment (`ppa:martinx/enlightenment`)
to use it with `Wayland` and guess what?! One of the requirements is
that `systemd` "thing"!

 if you don't want Xorg, you'll need `systemd`. It is solving very old
problems for a lots of different projects. So, to achieve my old dream
to use a accelerated Linux desktop without X, I'll need `systemd` in
the end of the day, so, I'm glad it appeared now!=P

 Also, when with `systemd`, there is no need to use
`enlightenment_start` anymore, this is pretty cool!

 And there is a second thing that I think it is awesome, "multi-seat"
support... Systemd provides a much simpler support for `multi-seat`! A
long waited feature (from my part)...

 Nevertheless, I'm still against this move in Debian, mostly because I
don't want to assume elevated risks and, right now, `systemd` will for
sure, bring much more risks and instability to Debian. So, lets make
the move but, not too damn fast to not burn Debian's image, and
everybody's works / jobs. There is NO need to rush this move to
`systemd`.

 So, I can not ask for a `systemd-free` Debian version anymore, since
I'm using it [systemd] now. Also, I think that there is plenty of room
for a `systemd-compatible` system based on `uselessd + eudev" (yes,
`systemd-free` while being `systemd-compatible`), including the
possibility to bring kFreeBSD back.

 Anyway, I'm seeing lots of problems "here and there", lets cal it
"TILTS", when using `systemd as PID=1` and honestly, I don't have
enough time to keep reporting them all in details, so, keeping
`sysvinit-core` at a reliable level is very, VERY important, because
at the very first signal of problems with `systemd`, I'll switch back
to `sysvinit-core` to make things work okay again (it is the safest
bet for now, if you want stability). I have friends that are doing the
same...

Cheers!
Thiago


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 12/6/13, Reco  wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 11:54:43AM +0100, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:
>> Ralf Mardorf writes:
>>  > On Fr, 2013-12-06 at 14:02 +0400, Reco wrote:
>>  > > On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 10:09:02AM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>>  > > > GTK is a PITA and will always cause similar warnings,
>>  > >
>>  > > I disagree. My .xsession-errors does not contain similar warnings.
>>  >
>>  > What DE do you use?
>>
>> Still using a graphic DE? Mine is called /bin/bash ...
>>
>> BTW, my .xession-errors timestamp was freezed to this year march, when
>> I learned to use xrandr to configure the dual heading.
>
> Pleading guilty, your honor ;)
> Worse, I use this pointing thingy called mouse at least twice per day.

Punch-cards only for a month for you! And good behaviour for a month
thereafter - no more than one mouse use per day.

We were _lucky_ to 'ave keyboards when we wuz young ...


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Rob Owens]

On Thu, Dec 05, 2013 at 04:37:45PM -0800, Patrick Bartek wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Dec 2013, Stephen Powell wrote:
> 
> > Well, the latest update to Debian jessie did it.  GNOME 3 apparently
> > no longer has a "fallback mode" for X drivers which don't support 3D
> > acceleration.  Mine doesn't.  And the native GNOME 3 interface is
> > apparently unusable with such an X driver.
> > 
> > Goodbye, GNOME.  Hello, XFCE.  I hope Debian will make XFCE the
> > default desktop for the production jessie installer.
> 
> You could do what I did with my install of Wheezy 64-bit (Replacing
> Fedora 12): Abandon the desktop "environment" entirely, and just use a
> full-featured window manager and a few utilities.  I found Openbox with
> LXPanel works just fine.  Lower overhead, too.  Just do a Base net
> install, and add one thing at a time.
> 
+1

I use Fluxbox and am very happy with it.  As an alternative to LXPanel,
you could use fbpanel.  There are others as well.  But fluxbox has a
normal-ish panel/taskbar so I don't use an add-on panel (although the
add-on ones are prettier).  I use keyboard shortcuts to launch all my
applications.

If you end up choosing Fluxbox, I can post my config files for you.

With most window managers, you need to configure your startup
applications.  Things like pulseaudio and network-manager need to be
specified, because they are typically not started by default.  This was
the biggest difference I found when switching from a desktop
environment.

-Rob


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Gary Roach]

On 12/06/2013 02:44 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

On Fri, 2013-12-06 at 14:04 -0800, Gary Roach wrote:

After reading through this topic I find myself ask what happened to KDE.
I know its old and is probably bloated. But, with 500 GB of disk space,
4GB of RAM and a 4 processor CPU, who cares. Its solid. I like it and
have never liked Gnome. Am I missing something here?

Yes, some apps, in my case most audio apps, are based on GTK ;). Sure
you can use Kate instead of Gedit, but KDE doesn't provide
everything ;). I'm testing KDE4 again and you can't compare it to Xfce
and LXDE regarding to the needed resources and stability, if you really
use the provided resources of your machine. Oh and FWIW I know how to
get rid of gvfs, but not how to get rid of KDE's green drive killer, IOW
for tuned machines it at least will cause the user a lot of work, by
reading and tweaking to use it as a replacement for Xfce and LXDE.

GNOME2 in the past was similar to Xfce and LXDE.

I agree that KDE4 is better than GNOME3 but users want a successor of
GNOME2 and that definitively isn't KDE4. I switched from KDE3 to GNOME2,
because KDE4 does cause issues.



Actually, I have had very few issues with KDE4. I use Kate, Icedove, 
iceweasle, and several other replacements for the standard KDE packages. 
I've always hated Konqueror and have pretty well managed to banish it 
from my system. I guess, in fairness, I should look at Xfce but the 
thought of installing a whole new desktop is not very appealing.


Gary R.


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Neal Murphy]

On Friday, December 06, 2013 05:04:49 PM Gary Roach wrote:
> On 12/06/2013 01:56 AM, Reco wrote:
> > On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 10:35:30AM +0100, François Patte wrote:
>  with acroread (on start):
>  
>  (acroread:30504): Gtk-WARNING **: Unable to locate theme engine in
>  module_path: "xfce",
> >>> 
> >>> The acroread needs i386 libraries from gtk2-engines-xfce package.
> >> 
> >> If I try to install this package (i386), I get:
> > What's normal. gtk2-engines-xfce doesn't contain Multi-Arch stanza in
> > it's description. Hence - you cannot install more than one architecture
> > of this package at the same time.
> > 
> > Please note that I wrote 'libraries from the package', not the package.
> > 
> > Quick and dirty way to fix the issue is to download gtk2-engines-xfce,
> > then invoke (as root):
> > 
> > dpkg -x gtk2-engines-xfce_3.0.1-2_amd64.deb /usr/local/
> > mv /usr/local/usr/* /usr/local
> > rm -rf /usr/local/usr
> > 
> > This setup WILL break once Jessie's gtk2-engines-xfce package will be
> > updated.
> > 
> > Probably (I can not test it right now) more-or-less correct way to fix
> > the issue is to launch acroread with GTK theme that does not require xfce
> > engine (for example):
> > 
> > GTK2_RC_FILES=/usr/share/themes/Raleigh/gtk-2.0/gtkrc acroread
> > 
> > Reco
> 
> After reading through this topic I find myself ask what happened to KDE.
> I know its old and is probably bloated. But, with 500 GB of disk space,
> 4GB of RAM and a 4 processor CPU, who cares. Its solid. I like it and
> have never liked Gnome. Am I missing something here?
> 
> Gary R.

I've never used gnome; I've never liked it. I started using KDE back around 
2003/2004. I used it until it became unusable (sometime after 4.0 was released 
and 3.x was abandoned).

Konqueror is no longer the most standards-compliant browser available; it mis-
renders things, breaks, and crashes. Kmail can only launch konqueror (that 
I've found). KDE has become a bloated pig of a suite that slowed down my quad 
Phenom-II.

I switched to XFCE. Even though it isn't perfect and doesn't do everything I 
want, it otherwise works well and works efficiently, and generally stays out 
of my way.

I have 16GiB RAM, 4 CPUs and 3+TiB disk space on my desktop. I have better 
things to spend CPU cycles on than eye candy, than a DE that wipes my butt 
when I'm done.

Mechanics, machinists, cooks, bakers and woodworkers don't have fu-fu tools 
that make them feel good. They have tools that get the job done. Without 
breaking. Sometimes stressed well beyond their nominal limits. Computer users 
deserve the same.


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Fri, 2013-12-06 at 14:04 -0800, Gary Roach wrote:
> After reading through this topic I find myself ask what happened to KDE. 
> I know its old and is probably bloated. But, with 500 GB of disk space, 
> 4GB of RAM and a 4 processor CPU, who cares. Its solid. I like it and 
> have never liked Gnome. Am I missing something here?

Yes, some apps, in my case most audio apps, are based on GTK ;). Sure
you can use Kate instead of Gedit, but KDE doesn't provide
everything ;). I'm testing KDE4 again and you can't compare it to Xfce
and LXDE regarding to the needed resources and stability, if you really
use the provided resources of your machine. Oh and FWIW I know how to
get rid of gvfs, but not how to get rid of KDE's green drive killer, IOW
for tuned machines it at least will cause the user a lot of work, by
reading and tweaking to use it as a replacement for Xfce and LXDE.

GNOME2 in the past was similar to Xfce and LXDE.

I agree that KDE4 is better than GNOME3 but users want a successor of
GNOME2 and that definitively isn't KDE4. I switched from KDE3 to GNOME2,
because KDE4 does cause issues.



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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Joe]

On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 14:04:49 -0800
Gary Roach  wrote:


> >
> After reading through this topic I find myself ask what happened to
> KDE. I know its old and is probably bloated. But, with 500 GB of disk
> space, 4GB of RAM and a 4 processor CPU, who cares. Its solid. I like
> it and have never liked Gnome. Am I missing something here?
> 
>
My guess would be two factors: undeniably, many Linux users are drawn
by the lower costs, and these are people who hate to throw a PC away.
If on the other hand, you replace your PC (or internals) every couple of
years, you will always have a PC capable of running Windows, and
therefore one which will easily run the most bloated possible Linux
system. Neither Gnome nor KDE will run slowly. The general issue with
Gnome3 is its appetite for resources, and as you say, the latest KDE is
similar. Knoppix dropped KDE some time ago in favour of LXDE for
resource reasons.

The other reason I draw from the dim depths of memory, and I may be
wrong. I seem to recall that at one time, Qt was not as free (in the
FOSS sense) as it might be, and that there was a slight inclination away
from KDE and towards Gnome, which was more free, though a bit more
primitive at the time. When that kind of situation occurs, the memory
lingers, even if the reason disappears, and I believe Qt no longer has
any licensing issues and hasn't for years. There is some movement away
from MySQL and towards MariaDB, for the same reason, even though they
are still functionally almost identical. Debian, of course, tends to be
very sensitive to such issues.

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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Gary Roach]

On 12/06/2013 01:56 AM, Reco wrote:

On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 10:35:30AM +0100, François Patte wrote:

with acroread (on start):

(acroread:30504): Gtk-WARNING **: Unable to locate theme engine in
module_path: "xfce",

The acroread needs i386 libraries from gtk2-engines-xfce package.

If I try to install this package (i386), I get:

What's normal. gtk2-engines-xfce doesn't contain Multi-Arch stanza in
it's description. Hence - you cannot install more than one architecture
of this package at the same time.

Please note that I wrote 'libraries from the package', not the package.

Quick and dirty way to fix the issue is to download gtk2-engines-xfce,
then invoke (as root):

dpkg -x gtk2-engines-xfce_3.0.1-2_amd64.deb /usr/local/
mv /usr/local/usr/* /usr/local
rm -rf /usr/local/usr

This setup WILL break once Jessie's gtk2-engines-xfce package will be
updated.

Probably (I can not test it right now) more-or-less correct way to fix
the issue is to launch acroread with GTK theme that does not require xfce
engine (for example):

GTK2_RC_FILES=/usr/share/themes/Raleigh/gtk-2.0/gtkrc acroread

Reco


After reading through this topic I find myself ask what happened to KDE. 
I know its old and is probably bloated. But, with 500 GB of disk space, 
4GB of RAM and a 4 processor CPU, who cares. Its solid. I like it and 
have never liked Gnome. Am I missing something here?


Gary R.


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Joe]

On Fri, 6 Dec 2013 11:57:55 +0200
Andrei POPESCU  wrote:

> On Vi, 06 dec 13, 08:20:56, Joe wrote:
> > 
> > I had used the fallback mode, but I then wandered off and tried Xfce
> > and LXDE, and stayed with the latter. It's a pig to get the Debian
> > menu to display on LXDE, if you use that, and I don't know if Xfce
> > has the same trouble.
> 
> I seem to recall you mentioning this previously, but without further 
> information. I don't recall doing anything special except installing 
> 'menu' and 'menu-xdg'.
> 

OK, I don't know how you did that...

   ...but the LXDE/sid installation on which the Debian menu has never
worked now has it.

Menu and menu-xdg (which explicitly mentions freedesktop.org, and the
problem with the Debian menu is that it doesn't comply with that menu
standard) have been installed forever, to no avail.

I've done all sorts of occult tweaks to the LXDE and Openbox
configurations, and clearly I haven't looked for the Debian menu on
that installation for some time, because it certainly wasn't working
after the last time I tried to fix it.

Something has changed, but then it is sid. Synaptic now needs to be
invoked from the command line with gksudo, but I can soon fix that,
I've seen that one before and I know how to drive the main menu system.

Thanks for..whatever it was.

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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Fr, 2013-12-06 at 19:40 +, Joe wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 11:54:28 +0100
> Ralf Mardorf  wrote:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry, I can't contribute more to this thread, since I already
> > pointed everything out.
> > 
> 
> OK, that's a good one.

And it's meant with a ";)". But I really thought it won't continue, but
it does :p.




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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Joe]

On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 11:54:28 +0100
Ralf Mardorf  wrote:


> I'm sorry, I can't contribute more to this thread, since I already
> pointed everything out.
> 

OK, that's a good one.

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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Fr, 2013-12-06 at 17:19 +0100, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:
> That does not mean that I am against graphic output. Ralf's sound
> samples and my graphs and icons are graphical objects. With you can
> have several terminals and copy and paste text among each other.
> 
> What I don't like is the position "You MUST use this" or "This is
> modern=>good, that is old=>obsolete" (and running daemons that you
> don't need, of course).

+1

Usually it's possible to make a lot of the hard dependencies optional,
IOW recommended/suggested dependencies.

I have to mention that I run jackd without dbus, but depending to the
used distro at least libdbus could be a hard dependency, e.g. for
Debian. Some other distros have separated, conflicting packages, jackd
and jackd-dbus, e.g. Arch Linux. For jackd it's not too much work to
handle this, but separating udev from systemd likely is a little bit
more work to do, not to mention that GNOME does force to install a sound
server that is know to be buggy and to brake audio. Policy-kit and even
systemd or 3D acceleration could become hard dependencies without a
valid reason. This thread started with the 3D acceleration issue ;).

This is the policy of GTK/GNOME, the only freedom is not to use
GTK/GNOME, if you use anything depending to it, then you don't have
freedom the way you want it to use. They try to enforce as much as they
can, hence all the warnings and hard dependencies. The warnings are
simply annoying and the nonsense hard dependencies can be easily avoided
by installing dummy packages. Nothing will break when you replace
pulseaudio and gvfs with an empty package. You only can't use pulseaudio
and gvfs if you replace them by dummy packages. Well, I also couldn't
use pulseaudio, if I would install it, audio wouldn't work if I would
install it.

Regards,
Ralf

PS: And I really thought there was nothing more to add to this thread.


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Brian]

On Thu 05 Dec 2013 at 18:24:13 -0500, Bo Lan wrote:

> Although I am not sure if XFCE or LXDE is good or bad, I am kind of
> agree with your opinion about the usability under such an free X driver.
> According to Debian's policy, Debian is an organization that highly
> respects completely free software, including kernel and firmwares.
> However, currently, most hardware which support 3D acceleration require
> non-free firmware or even non-free proprietary driver.

Both wpasupplicant and xserver-xorg-video-radeon (to mention but two
packages) may also need software from non-free to work effectively for
your purposes. Where does that leave us? You would have a lot of bug
reports to submit.


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Gian Uberto Lauri]

Reco writes:
 > On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 11:54:43AM +0100, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:
 > > Ralf Mardorf writes:
 > >  > On Fr, 2013-12-06 at 14:02 +0400, Reco wrote:
 > >  > > On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 10:09:02AM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 > >  > > > GTK is a PITA and will always cause similar warnings,
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > I disagree. My .xsession-errors does not contain similar warnings.
 > >  > 
 > >  > What DE do you use?
 > > 
 > > Still using a graphic DE? Mine is called /bin/bash ...
 > > 
 > > BTW, my .xession-errors timestamp was freezed to this year march, when
 > > I learned to use xrandr to configure the dual heading.
 > 
 > Pleading guilty, your honor ;)
 > Worse, I use this pointing thingy called mouse at least twice per day.

Bismillemacs al rahman al rahim!

Having heard your confession and according to Saint ingnucius wisdom
(Using a free version of vi is not a sin but a penance) you will run
four editing session with a free implementation of vi.

Jokes (almost) over.

In 1999, during a Pluto meeting in Padova, Ettore Perazzoli was
explaining how Gnome was evolving, and one of the objections was
indeed that the roadmap was going towards Windows. I still feel that I
don't need 90% of the things a DE offers as "indispensable".

That does not mean that I am against graphic output. Ralf's sound
samples and my graphs and icons are graphical objects. With you can
have several terminals and copy and paste text among each other.

What I don't like is the position "You MUST use this" or "This is
modern=>good, that is old=>obsolete" (and running daemons that you
don't need, of course).

Uh, I forgot: I use at least 3 programs with GTK interface: Emacs,
Eclipse[*], The Gimp.

-- 
 /\   ___Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_   African word
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamicomeaning "I can
\/ coltivatore diretto di software   not install
 già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian"

Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Gian Uberto Lauri]

Ralf Mardorf writes:
 > On Fr, 2013-12-06 at 11:54 +0100, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:
 > > Ralf Mardorf writes:
 > >  > On Fr, 2013-12-06 at 14:02 +0400, Reco wrote:
 > >  > > On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 10:09:02AM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 > >  > > > GTK is a PITA and will always cause similar warnings,
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > I disagree. My .xsession-errors does not contain similar warnings.
 > >  > 
 > >  > What DE do you use?
 > > 
 > > Still using a graphic DE? Mine is called /bin/bash ...
 > 
 > I was mistaken, I have another post to contribute. Some blind Linux
 > musician likely use a similar setup to yours, but most Linux musicians
 > and I'm one of them, use GUI apps for audio productions.

I wrote the core of one of such tools once upon a long ago (graduation
thesis) and while it needs graphics (X11 in Unix and Linux) gnome is
not this mandatory...

Too bad I had to go to work in another type of company.

 > Using jackd
 > without dbus installed already could cause much trouble.

... even in this case you could start dbus w/o starting a DE: start
only what you need. I know, it requires some skill above the basic,
and enforcing then negates freedom of use.

dbus is another of such so-so ideas, and I understand what it does
mean having something that NEEDS DBUS running (I have even seen Sun
JVM crash due a DBUS message...).

-- 
 /\   ___Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_   African word
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamicomeaning "I can
\/ coltivatore diretto di software   not install
 già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian"

Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Reco]

On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 11:54:43AM +0100, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:
> Ralf Mardorf writes:
>  > On Fr, 2013-12-06 at 14:02 +0400, Reco wrote:
>  > > On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 10:09:02AM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>  > > > GTK is a PITA and will always cause similar warnings,
>  > > 
>  > > I disagree. My .xsession-errors does not contain similar warnings.
>  > 
>  > What DE do you use?
> 
> Still using a graphic DE? Mine is called /bin/bash ...
> 
> BTW, my .xession-errors timestamp was freezed to this year march, when
> I learned to use xrandr to configure the dual heading.

Pleading guilty, your honor ;)
Worse, I use this pointing thingy called mouse at least twice per day.

Reco


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Fr, 2013-12-06 at 11:54 +0100, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:
> Ralf Mardorf writes:
>  > On Fr, 2013-12-06 at 14:02 +0400, Reco wrote:
>  > > On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 10:09:02AM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>  > > > GTK is a PITA and will always cause similar warnings,
>  > > 
>  > > I disagree. My .xsession-errors does not contain similar warnings.
>  > 
>  > What DE do you use?
> 
> Still using a graphic DE? Mine is called /bin/bash ...

I was mistaken, I have another post to contribute. Some blind Linux
musician likely use a similar setup to yours, but most Linux musicians
and I'm one of them, use GUI apps for audio productions. Using jackd
without dbus installed already could cause much trouble.


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Gian Uberto Lauri]

Ralf Mardorf writes:
 > On Fr, 2013-12-06 at 14:02 +0400, Reco wrote:
 > > On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 10:09:02AM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 > > > GTK is a PITA and will always cause similar warnings,
 > > 
 > > I disagree. My .xsession-errors does not contain similar warnings.
 > 
 > What DE do you use?

Still using a graphic DE? Mine is called /bin/bash ...

BTW, my .xession-errors timestamp was freezed to this year march, when
I learned to use xrandr to configure the dual heading.

-- 
 /\   ___Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_   African word
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamicomeaning "I can
\/ coltivatore diretto di software   not install
 già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian"

Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Fr, 2013-12-06 at 14:26 +0400, Reco wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 12:17:20PM +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > On Vi, 06 dec 13, 11:12:37, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > > On Fr, 2013-12-06 at 14:02 +0400, Reco wrote:
> > > > On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 10:09:02AM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > This are not Xfce, KDE
> > > > > etc. bugs and they are also not Debian related, this is caused by
> > > > > GTK/GNOME upstream's ignorance. GTK and GNOME are crap. Very likely 
> > > > > that
> > > > > even GNOME doesn't continue using GTK, LXDE for good reasons switches
> > > > > from GTK to Qt.
> > > > 
> > > > GNOME project plans to ditch GTK+-3? That's interesting, to say the
> > > > least. Have you got any proof of that?
> > > 
> > > No transparency, no official statements, no evidence for it, but if you
> > > run the releases from upstream and not outdated versions from Debian,
> > > you'll notice the evolution of GTK and that it's at a dead end.
> > 
> > Come on Ralf, this is one of your worst trolls ever. You can do much 
> > better :p
> 
> Please, don't be harsh on him. It's Friday night here, and a little
> flamewar on the Debian maillist is a fine ending of a long boring week :)

My week was boring regarding to a cold, so it was not easy to leave
home. However this won't cause a flame war. No storm at the moment, I
should leave home and buy something to eat for the weekend.

I'm sorry, I can't contribute more to this thread, since I already
pointed everything out.

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Fr, 2013-12-06 at 11:36 +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Fr, 2013-12-06 at 14:23 +0400, Reco wrote:
> > I just stay clear of anything that's linked against
> > libgconf.so.
> 
> The real issues are caused by libdconf, libgconf is quasi obsolet. I
> already must install libdconf for audio production, so there's no choice
> for me since e.g. /usr/bin/hdspmixer depends on it.

To be more precise, the packages dependency chain depends to dconf,
perhaps not for every distro's release ;), assumed ALSA should be
outdated, there might not be this dependency.


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Fr, 2013-12-06 at 12:17 +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Vi, 06 dec 13, 11:12:37, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > On Fr, 2013-12-06 at 14:02 +0400, Reco wrote:
> > > On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 10:09:02AM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > 
> > > > Very likely that
> > > > even GNOME doesn't continue using GTK, LXDE for good reasons switches
> > > > from GTK to Qt.
> > > 
> > > GNOME project plans to ditch GTK+-3? That's interesting, to say the
> > > least. Have you got any proof of that?
> > 
> > No transparency, no official statements, no evidence for it, but if you
> > run the releases from upstream and not outdated versions from Debian,
> > you'll notice the evolution of GTK and that it's at a dead end.
> 
> Come on Ralf, this is one of your worst trolls ever. You can do much 
> better :p

We will see what will happen within the future. Talk to upstream and
perhaps you'll change your opinion. Since you're a LXDE user, you might
be aware that they switch to Qt, perhaps you should talk with LXDE
upstream about my opinion. Or ask GNOME app developers, e.g. Evolution
developers about the issues they've got with GTK. It's politic not to
make a clear statement, but you might be able to read between the lines
of statements.


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Reco]

On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 12:17:20PM +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> On Vi, 06 dec 13, 11:12:37, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > On Fr, 2013-12-06 at 14:02 +0400, Reco wrote:
> > > On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 10:09:02AM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > 
> > > > This are not Xfce, KDE
> > > > etc. bugs and they are also not Debian related, this is caused by
> > > > GTK/GNOME upstream's ignorance. GTK and GNOME are crap. Very likely that
> > > > even GNOME doesn't continue using GTK, LXDE for good reasons switches
> > > > from GTK to Qt.
> > > 
> > > GNOME project plans to ditch GTK+-3? That's interesting, to say the
> > > least. Have you got any proof of that?
> > 
> > No transparency, no official statements, no evidence for it, but if you
> > run the releases from upstream and not outdated versions from Debian,
> > you'll notice the evolution of GTK and that it's at a dead end.
> 
> Come on Ralf, this is one of your worst trolls ever. You can do much 
> better :p

Please, don't be harsh on him. It's Friday night here, and a little
flamewar on the Debian maillist is a fine ending of a long boring week :)

Reco


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Reco]

On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 11:12:37AM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Fr, 2013-12-06 at 14:02 +0400, Reco wrote:
> > I disagree. My .xsession-errors does not contain similar warnings.
> 
> What DE do you use? It's new to me that there aren't those issues
> outside GNOME. There's nothing the other DEs have to fix, the bad design
> is from GTK/GNOME.

Xfce, Debian stable. I just stay clear of anything that's linked against
libgconf.so.
Been using the thing since etch days. About the only thing I've changed
in my setup is xfwm4 → compiz → openbox replacement that I did between
squeeze and wheezy.


> > > but GTK also does
> > > cause really serious issues, if you e.g. launch a GNOME editor with root
> > > privileges, the Microsoft like config thingy's privileges change to root
> > > and GNOME apps don't work for the user anymore.
> > 
> > That's bad for the unfortunate user indeed. But that's not the GTK+-2
> > problem, that's gconf problem (probably combined with misconfigured sudo
> > - i.e. without sudo always_set_home).
> 
> Issues happen not with Non-Gnome apps, but also when using su for GNOME
> apps, so sudo is completely irrelevant. Also completely independent from
> the used distro.

So, to reproduce it, I need to do something like:

$ gnome-terminal
$ su -
Password:
# gnome-terminal

Right? But that sequence does not break anything here.

Now, if I'd used 'su' instead of 'su -' - now that could break the
things indeed.


> > > This are not Xfce, KDE
> > > etc. bugs and they are also not Debian related, this is caused by
> > > GTK/GNOME upstream's ignorance. GTK and GNOME are crap. Very likely that
> > > even GNOME doesn't continue using GTK, LXDE for good reasons switches
> > > from GTK to Qt.
> > 
> > GNOME project plans to ditch GTK+-3? That's interesting, to say the
> > least. Have you got any proof of that?
> 
> No transparency, no official statements, no evidence for it, but if you
> run the releases from upstream and not outdated versions from Debian,
> you'll notice the evolution of GTK and that it's at a dead end.

Or, they just implemented the stuff in GTK they want, got rid of anything
they don't need, and are merely fixing current bugs.
They did the same in the past, back it was called GTK+-2.8. Didn't hurt
anyone.

Reco


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Vi, 06 dec 13, 11:12:37, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Fr, 2013-12-06 at 14:02 +0400, Reco wrote:
> > On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 10:09:02AM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> 
> > > This are not Xfce, KDE
> > > etc. bugs and they are also not Debian related, this is caused by
> > > GTK/GNOME upstream's ignorance. GTK and GNOME are crap. Very likely that
> > > even GNOME doesn't continue using GTK, LXDE for good reasons switches
> > > from GTK to Qt.
> > 
> > GNOME project plans to ditch GTK+-3? That's interesting, to say the
> > least. Have you got any proof of that?
> 
> No transparency, no official statements, no evidence for it, but if you
> run the releases from upstream and not outdated versions from Debian,
> you'll notice the evolution of GTK and that it's at a dead end.

Come on Ralf, this is one of your worst trolls ever. You can do much 
better :p

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Fr, 2013-12-06 at 14:02 +0400, Reco wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 10:09:02AM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > GTK is a PITA and will always cause similar warnings,
> 
> I disagree. My .xsession-errors does not contain similar warnings.

What DE do you use? It's new to me that there aren't those issues
outside GNOME. There's nothing the other DEs have to fix, the bad design
is from GTK/GNOME.

> > but GTK also does
> > cause really serious issues, if you e.g. launch a GNOME editor with root
> > privileges, the Microsoft like config thingy's privileges change to root
> > and GNOME apps don't work for the user anymore.
> 
> That's bad for the unfortunate user indeed. But that's not the GTK+-2
> problem, that's gconf problem (probably combined with misconfigured sudo
> - i.e. without sudo always_set_home).

Issues happen not with Non-Gnome apps, but also when using su for GNOME
apps, so sudo is completely irrelevant. Also completely independent from
the used distro.

> > This are not Xfce, KDE
> > etc. bugs and they are also not Debian related, this is caused by
> > GTK/GNOME upstream's ignorance. GTK and GNOME are crap. Very likely that
> > even GNOME doesn't continue using GTK, LXDE for good reasons switches
> > from GTK to Qt.
> 
> GNOME project plans to ditch GTK+-3? That's interesting, to say the
> least. Have you got any proof of that?

No transparency, no official statements, no evidence for it, but if you
run the releases from upstream and not outdated versions from Debian,
you'll notice the evolution of GTK and that it's at a dead end.

Regards,
Ralf


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[François Patte]

Le 06/12/2013 10:52, Ralf Mardorf a écrit :
> On Fr, 2013-12-06 at 10:35 +0100, François Patte wrote:
>> Le 06/12/2013 09:51, Reco a écrit :
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 09:39:03AM +0100, François Patte wrote:
 It could a nice choice, but there are many things to fix! I made the
 choice of xfce at my wheezy install and as I use terminals and cli to
 launch my stuff, there are a lot of warnings, for instance:

 when I quit evince:

 (evince:30376): Gtk-WARNING **: Calling Inhibit failed:
 GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name
 org.gnome.SessionManager was not provided by any .service files
>>>
>>> Try installing evince-gtk instead of evince.
>>>
 with acroread (on start):

 (acroread:30504): Gtk-WARNING **: Unable to locate theme engine in
 module_path: "xfce",
>>>
>>> The acroread needs i386 libraries from gtk2-engines-xfce package.
>>
>> If I try to install this package (i386), I get:
>>
>>
>> The following packages will be REMOVED:
>>   browser-plugin-libreoffice docvert-libreoffice gtk2-engines-xfce
>> libharfbuzz0a libharfbuzz0a:i386 libreoffice
>>   libreoffice-base libreoffice-base-core libreoffice-calc
>> libreoffice-core libreoffice-draw libreoffice-gtk
>>   libreoffice-help-fr libreoffice-impress libreoffice-math
>> libreoffice-pdfimport libreoffice-report-builder-bin
>>   libreoffice-writer libreoffice-writer2latex python-uno xfce4
>>
>>
>> So, there is some issues with i386 libraries wich cannot coexist with
>> amd64 ones!
> 
> http://www.howtoforge.com/multiarch-how-to-use-32bit-packages-on-a-64bit-system-debian-7-wheezy
> 
> Took less then 5 seconds to search the web.

It is too much: 5 seconds to have informations on what is already done?
If I had no i386 arch installed, I could not use acroread

You answer too quickly Ralph!


-- 
François Patte
UFR de mathématiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Université Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints Pères
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
Tél. +33 (0)1 8394 5849
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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Reco]

On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 10:09:02AM +0100, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> GTK is a PITA and will always cause similar warnings,

I disagree. My .xsession-errors does not contain similar warnings.


> but GTK also does
> cause really serious issues, if you e.g. launch a GNOME editor with root
> privileges, the Microsoft like config thingy's privileges change to root
> and GNOME apps don't work for the user anymore.

That's bad for the unfortunate user indeed. But that's not the GTK+-2
problem, that's gconf problem (probably combined with misconfigured sudo
- i.e. without sudo always_set_home).


> This are not Xfce, KDE
> etc. bugs and they are also not Debian related, this is caused by
> GTK/GNOME upstream's ignorance. GTK and GNOME are crap. Very likely that
> even GNOME doesn't continue using GTK, LXDE for good reasons switches
> from GTK to Qt.

GNOME project plans to ditch GTK+-3? That's interesting, to say the
least. Have you got any proof of that?

Reco


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Vi, 06 dec 13, 12:29:14, Zenaan Harkness wrote:
> >
> > Maybe there's a wiki page on the topic?  If not, maybe we could start one?
> 
> Or debian-ot@... :)

Why off-topic? This is Debian related.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Vi, 06 dec 13, 08:20:56, Joe wrote:
> 
> I had used the fallback mode, but I then wandered off and tried Xfce
> and LXDE, and stayed with the latter. It's a pig to get the Debian menu
> to display on LXDE, if you use that, and I don't know if Xfce has the
> same trouble.

I seem to recall you mentioning this previously, but without further 
information. I don't recall doing anything special except installing 
'menu' and 'menu-xdg'.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Reco]

On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 10:35:30AM +0100, François Patte wrote:
> >> with acroread (on start):
> >>
> >> (acroread:30504): Gtk-WARNING **: Unable to locate theme engine in
> >> module_path: "xfce",
> > 
> > The acroread needs i386 libraries from gtk2-engines-xfce package.
> 
> If I try to install this package (i386), I get:

What's normal. gtk2-engines-xfce doesn't contain Multi-Arch stanza in
it's description. Hence - you cannot install more than one architecture
of this package at the same time.

Please note that I wrote 'libraries from the package', not the package.

Quick and dirty way to fix the issue is to download gtk2-engines-xfce,
then invoke (as root):

dpkg -x gtk2-engines-xfce_3.0.1-2_amd64.deb /usr/local/
mv /usr/local/usr/* /usr/local
rm -rf /usr/local/usr

This setup WILL break once Jessie's gtk2-engines-xfce package will be
updated.

Probably (I can not test it right now) more-or-less correct way to fix
the issue is to launch acroread with GTK theme that does not require xfce
engine (for example):

GTK2_RC_FILES=/usr/share/themes/Raleigh/gtk-2.0/gtkrc acroread

Reco


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Fr, 2013-12-06 at 10:35 +0100, François Patte wrote:
> Le 06/12/2013 09:51, Reco a écrit :
> > Hi.
> > 
> > On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 09:39:03AM +0100, François Patte wrote:
> >> It could a nice choice, but there are many things to fix! I made the
> >> choice of xfce at my wheezy install and as I use terminals and cli to
> >> launch my stuff, there are a lot of warnings, for instance:
> >>
> >> when I quit evince:
> >>
> >> (evince:30376): Gtk-WARNING **: Calling Inhibit failed:
> >> GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name
> >> org.gnome.SessionManager was not provided by any .service files
> > 
> > Try installing evince-gtk instead of evince.
> > 
> >> with acroread (on start):
> >>
> >> (acroread:30504): Gtk-WARNING **: Unable to locate theme engine in
> >> module_path: "xfce",
> > 
> > The acroread needs i386 libraries from gtk2-engines-xfce package.
> 
> If I try to install this package (i386), I get:
> 
> 
> The following packages will be REMOVED:
>   browser-plugin-libreoffice docvert-libreoffice gtk2-engines-xfce
> libharfbuzz0a libharfbuzz0a:i386 libreoffice
>   libreoffice-base libreoffice-base-core libreoffice-calc
> libreoffice-core libreoffice-draw libreoffice-gtk
>   libreoffice-help-fr libreoffice-impress libreoffice-math
> libreoffice-pdfimport libreoffice-report-builder-bin
>   libreoffice-writer libreoffice-writer2latex python-uno xfce4
> 
> 
> So, there is some issues with i386 libraries wich cannot coexist with
> amd64 ones!

http://www.howtoforge.com/multiarch-how-to-use-32bit-packages-on-a-64bit-system-debian-7-wheezy

Took less then 5 seconds to search the web.


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[François Patte]

Le 06/12/2013 09:51, Reco a écrit :
> Hi.
> 
> On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 09:39:03AM +0100, François Patte wrote:
>> It could a nice choice, but there are many things to fix! I made the
>> choice of xfce at my wheezy install and as I use terminals and cli to
>> launch my stuff, there are a lot of warnings, for instance:
>>
>> when I quit evince:
>>
>> (evince:30376): Gtk-WARNING **: Calling Inhibit failed:
>> GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name
>> org.gnome.SessionManager was not provided by any .service files
> 
> Try installing evince-gtk instead of evince.
> 
>> with acroread (on start):
>>
>> (acroread:30504): Gtk-WARNING **: Unable to locate theme engine in
>> module_path: "xfce",
> 
> The acroread needs i386 libraries from gtk2-engines-xfce package.

If I try to install this package (i386), I get:


The following packages will be REMOVED:
  browser-plugin-libreoffice docvert-libreoffice gtk2-engines-xfce
libharfbuzz0a libharfbuzz0a:i386 libreoffice
  libreoffice-base libreoffice-base-core libreoffice-calc
libreoffice-core libreoffice-draw libreoffice-gtk
  libreoffice-help-fr libreoffice-impress libreoffice-math
libreoffice-pdfimport libreoffice-report-builder-bin
  libreoffice-writer libreoffice-writer2latex python-uno xfce4


So, there is some issues with i386 libraries wich cannot coexist with
amd64 ones!

-- 
François Patte
UFR de mathématiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Université Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints Pères
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
Tél. +33 (0)1 8394 5849
http://www.math-info.univ-paris5.fr/~patte



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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Fr, 2013-12-06 at 12:51 +0400, Reco wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 09:39:03AM +0100, François Patte wrote:
> > It could a nice choice, but there are many things to fix! I made the
> > choice of xfce at my wheezy install and as I use terminals and cli to
> > launch my stuff, there are a lot of warnings, for instance:
> > 
> > when I quit evince:
> > 
> > (evince:30376): Gtk-WARNING **: Calling Inhibit failed:
> > GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name
> > org.gnome.SessionManager was not provided by any .service files
> 
> Try installing evince-gtk instead of evince.
> 
> > with acroread (on start):
> > 
> > (acroread:30504): Gtk-WARNING **: Unable to locate theme engine in
> > module_path: "xfce",
> 
> The acroread needs i386 libraries from gtk2-engines-xfce package.

GTK is a PITA and will always cause similar warnings, but GTK also does
cause really serious issues, if you e.g. launch a GNOME editor with root
privileges, the Microsoft like config thingy's privileges change to root
and GNOME apps don't work for the user anymore. This are not Xfce, KDE
etc. bugs and they are also not Debian related, this is caused by
GTK/GNOME upstream's ignorance. GTK and GNOME are crap. Very likely that
even GNOME doesn't continue using GTK, LXDE for good reasons switches
from GTK to Qt.

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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Reco]

Hi.

On Fri, Dec 06, 2013 at 09:39:03AM +0100, François Patte wrote:
> It could a nice choice, but there are many things to fix! I made the
> choice of xfce at my wheezy install and as I use terminals and cli to
> launch my stuff, there are a lot of warnings, for instance:
> 
> when I quit evince:
> 
> (evince:30376): Gtk-WARNING **: Calling Inhibit failed:
> GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name
> org.gnome.SessionManager was not provided by any .service files

Try installing evince-gtk instead of evince.

> with acroread (on start):
> 
> (acroread:30504): Gtk-WARNING **: Unable to locate theme engine in
> module_path: "xfce",

The acroread needs i386 libraries from gtk2-engines-xfce package.

Reco


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[François Patte]

Le 05/12/2013 22:46, Stephen Powell a écrit :
> Well, the latest update to Debian jessie did it.  GNOME 3 apparently
> no longer has a "fallback mode" for X drivers which don't support 3D
> acceleration.  Mine doesn't.  And the native GNOME 3 interface is
> apparently unusable with such an X driver.
> 
> Goodbye, GNOME.  Hello, XFCE.  I hope Debian will make XFCE the
> default desktop for the production jessie installer.

It could a nice choice, but there are many things to fix! I made the
choice of xfce at my wheezy install and as I use terminals and cli to
launch my stuff, there are a lot of warnings, for instance:

when I quit evince:

(evince:30376): Gtk-WARNING **: Calling Inhibit failed:
GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name
org.gnome.SessionManager was not provided by any .service files


with acroread (on start):

(acroread:30504): Gtk-WARNING **: Unable to locate theme engine in
module_path: "xfce",

etc. I had some similar messages launching emacs and other applications.

So I have to launch my applications like this:

evince beamer.pdf 2>/dev/null &

if I want to get rid of these warnings which can appear if I scroll a
document .


-- 
François Patte
UFR de mathématiques et informatique
Laboratoire CNRS MAP5, UMR 8145
Université Paris Descartes
45, rue des Saints Pères
F-75270 Paris Cedex 06
Tél. +33 (0)1 8394 5849
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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Joe]

On Thu, 5 Dec 2013 17:13:04 -0500 (EST)
Stephen Powell  wrote:

> On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 17:01:37 -0500 (EST), Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > 
> > All GTK dependent DEs have their drawbacks. Xfce still is and will
> > be my DE for a while, but I'm already testing Razor-Qt. It's not
> > that good at the moment, but since LXDE is similar ok as Xfce is,
> > it might be interesting to wait for LXDE-Qt. IIUC the Razor-Qt and
> > LXDE folks work together on LXDE-Qt. Perhaps LXDE-Qt would be a
> > better choice as a default DE for Debian and some other distros.
> 
> I haven't tried the other DEs that you mentioned.  From my research it
> seemed that XFCE was pretty close to the "look and feel" of the old
> GNOME 2 interface, which is what I am used to, and what "fallback
> mode" users of GNOME 3 are used to.  As such, it seemed like a pretty
> good default DE for new installs to me.  But I do feel strongly about
> one thing: the default DE should not be one which *requires* 3D
> acceleration support! The default DE should be one which is usable by
> as wide a variety of video hardware as possible. 
> 

Indeed, and I eventually found that my video hardware and driver did
indeed do 3D acceleration, but it was not enabled by default. So I gave
Gnome3 a try, but didn't like it.

I had used the fallback mode, but I then wandered off and tried Xfce
and LXDE, and stayed with the latter. It's a pig to get the Debian menu
to display on LXDE, if you use that, and I don't know if Xfce has the
same trouble.

-- 
Joe


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Stephen Powell]

On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 17:07:44 -0500 (EST), Tom H wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 9:46 PM, Stephen Powell wrote:
>> ...
>> I hope Debian will make XFCE the
>> default desktop for the production jessie installer.
> 
> It is for the time being.
> 
> http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=tasksel/tasksel.git;a=commit;h=dfca406eb694e0ac00ea04b12fc912237e01c9b5

That's good.  I'm not a GNOME hater.  GNOME has been the default
for a long time, and something long established should not be changed
without a good reason.  But the withdrawal of fallback mode is, IMHO,
sufficient justification.  It looks like they made this change shortly
*before* GNOME dropped support for fallback mode.  But it was close
enough that they may have known that it was coming.

-- 
  .''`. Stephen Powell
 : :'  :
 `. `'`
   `-


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Zenaan Harkness]

On 12/6/13, Rick Thomas  wrote:
> On Dec 5, 2013, at 4:37 PM, Patrick Bartek  wrote:
>
>> You could do what I did with my install of Wheezy 64-bit (Replacing
>> Fedora 12): Abandon the desktop "environment" entirely, and just use a
>> full-featured window manager and a few utilities.  I found Openbox with
>> LXPanel works just fine.  Lower overhead, too.  Just do a Base net
>> install, and add one thing at a time.
>
> An interesting option Patrick; thanks for suggesting it.

> I'd also be
> interested in discussing (perhaps off-list) what sorts of things I might add
> to or subtract from it for my own use, if you are amenable.
>
> Maybe there's a wiki page on the topic?  If not, maybe we could start one?

Or debian-ot@... :)

I would definitely join this discussion, on -ot.
I suggest though, that you start it slow - one application (or
configuration) category at a time, eg
"Window managers for lightweight custom debian install?"
followed by "Panel/Launcher/Dock options?"
and perhaps "Custom debian desktop as close to Microsoft Windows 2000
as possible?" :)
etc

IE, if you start an "everything" thread, pretty soon it won't be very
useful for homing in at future time points on specific topics.

wikipedia.org often contains comparison tables of various types of
software, such as window manager, etc.

Sounds good to me,

Zenaan


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Rick Thomas]

On Dec 5, 2013, at 4:37 PM, Patrick Bartek  wrote:

> You could do what I did with my install of Wheezy 64-bit (Replacing
> Fedora 12): Abandon the desktop "environment" entirely, and just use a
> full-featured window manager and a few utilities.  I found Openbox with
> LXPanel works just fine.  Lower overhead, too.  Just do a Base net
> install, and add one thing at a time.
> 
> B  

An interesting option Patrick; thanks for suggesting it.

Can you give us the exact list of packages we should install in order to get 
the environment you like?  I'd be interested in trying it out.   I'd also be 
interested in discussing (perhaps off-list) what sorts of things I might add to 
or subtract from it for my own use, if you are amenable.

Maybe there's a wiki page on the topic?  If not, maybe we could start one?

Enjoy!

Rick

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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Patrick Bartek]

On Thu, 05 Dec 2013, Stephen Powell wrote:

> Well, the latest update to Debian jessie did it.  GNOME 3 apparently
> no longer has a "fallback mode" for X drivers which don't support 3D
> acceleration.  Mine doesn't.  And the native GNOME 3 interface is
> apparently unusable with such an X driver.
> 
> Goodbye, GNOME.  Hello, XFCE.  I hope Debian will make XFCE the
> default desktop for the production jessie installer.

You could do what I did with my install of Wheezy 64-bit (Replacing
Fedora 12): Abandon the desktop "environment" entirely, and just use a
full-featured window manager and a few utilities.  I found Openbox with
LXPanel works just fine.  Lower overhead, too.  Just do a Base net
install, and add one thing at a time.

B  


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 2013-12-05 at 18:24 -0500, Bo Lan wrote:
> I am still a new user, and don't know if we can report a bug to Debian
> to say that, GNOME SHELL or Foo Desktop Environment is not usable under
> 2D free video card driver or such. Actually, I hope Debian can patch
> those DE, free drivers, and so on, to keep Debian to be modern,
> beautiful, and also highly support free drivers.

Most, if not all FLOSS drivers come with 3D acceleration, it's just not
fast enough to move Windows with real transparency and other effects by
a sane speed. Theoretically reporting this to upstream would be the
right way to get rid of this "bug", but reporting anything GTK and/or
GNOME related that does cause serious issues isn't worse the effort. You
directly could report it to /dev/null, by reporting it to /dev/null you
don't need to worry "bizarre" replies, you could get, when reporting a
"bug" to upstream. There are much more other issues, such as e.g. insane
dependency chains.

Regards,
Ralf



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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Bo Lan]

On Thu, 2013-12-05 at 16:46 -0500, Stephen Powell wrote:
> Well, the latest update to Debian jessie did it.  GNOME 3 apparently
> no longer has a "fallback mode" for X drivers which don't support 3D
> acceleration.  Mine doesn't.  And the native GNOME 3 interface is
> apparently unusable with such an X driver.
> 
> Goodbye, GNOME.  Hello, XFCE.  I hope Debian will make XFCE the
> default desktop for the production jessie installer.
> 
> -- 
>   .''`. Stephen Powell
>  : :'  :
>  `. `'`
>`-
> 
> 

Although I am not sure if XFCE or LXDE is good or bad, I am kind of
agree with your opinion about the usability under such an free X driver.
According to Debian's policy, Debian is an organization that highly
respects completely free software, including kernel and firmwares.
However, currently, most hardware which support 3D acceleration require
non-free firmware or even non-free proprietary driver.

I am still a new user, and don't know if we can report a bug to Debian
to say that, GNOME SHELL or Foo Desktop Environment is not usable under
2D free video card driver or such. Actually, I hope Debian can patch
those DE, free drivers, and so on, to keep Debian to be modern,
beautiful, and also highly support free drivers.

Bo


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 2013-12-05 at 17:13 -0500, Stephen Powell wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 17:01:37 -0500 (EST), Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > 
> > All GTK dependent DEs have their drawbacks. Xfce still is and will be my
> > DE for a while, but I'm already testing Razor-Qt. It's not that good at
> > the moment, but since LXDE is similar ok as Xfce is, it might be
> > interesting to wait for LXDE-Qt. IIUC the Razor-Qt and LXDE folks work
> > together on LXDE-Qt. Perhaps LXDE-Qt would be a better choice as a
> > default DE for Debian and some other distros.
> 
> I haven't tried the other DEs that you mentioned.  From my research it
> seemed that XFCE was pretty close to the "look and feel" of the old GNOME 2
> interface, which is what I am used to, and what "fallback mode" users
> of GNOME 3 are used to.  As such, it seemed like a pretty good default
> DE for new installs to me.  But I do feel strongly about one thing:
> the default DE should not be one which *requires* 3D acceleration support!
> The default DE should be one which is usable by as wide a variety of
> video hardware as possible.

Xfce is a good choice. I'm using it for a long time, it's used by many
Linux and BSD users. LXDE is very close to Xfce.


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Stephen Powell]

On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 17:01:37 -0500 (EST), Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> 
> All GTK dependent DEs have their drawbacks. Xfce still is and will be my
> DE for a while, but I'm already testing Razor-Qt. It's not that good at
> the moment, but since LXDE is similar ok as Xfce is, it might be
> interesting to wait for LXDE-Qt. IIUC the Razor-Qt and LXDE folks work
> together on LXDE-Qt. Perhaps LXDE-Qt would be a better choice as a
> default DE for Debian and some other distros.

I haven't tried the other DEs that you mentioned.  From my research it
seemed that XFCE was pretty close to the "look and feel" of the old GNOME 2
interface, which is what I am used to, and what "fallback mode" users
of GNOME 3 are used to.  As such, it seemed like a pretty good default
DE for new installs to me.  But I do feel strongly about one thing:
the default DE should not be one which *requires* 3D acceleration support!
The default DE should be one which is usable by as wide a variety of
video hardware as possible. 

-- 
  .''`. Stephen Powell
 : :'  :
 `. `'`
   `-


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Tom H]

On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 9:46 PM, Stephen Powell  wrote:
>
> Well, the latest update to Debian jessie did it.  GNOME 3 apparently
> no longer has a "fallback mode" for X drivers which don't support 3D
> acceleration.  Mine doesn't.  And the native GNOME 3 interface is
> apparently unusable with such an X driver.
>
> Goodbye, GNOME.  Hello, XFCE.  I hope Debian will make XFCE the
> default desktop for the production jessie installer.

It is for the time being.

http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=tasksel/tasksel.git;a=commit;h=dfca406eb694e0ac00ea04b12fc912237e01c9b5


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Re: Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 2013-12-05 at 16:46 -0500, Stephen Powell wrote:
> Well, the latest update to Debian jessie did it.  GNOME 3 apparently
> no longer has a "fallback mode" for X drivers which don't support 3D
> acceleration.  Mine doesn't.  And the native GNOME 3 interface is
> apparently unusable with such an X driver.
> 
> Goodbye, GNOME.  Hello, XFCE.  I hope Debian will make XFCE the
> default desktop for the production jessie installer.

All GTK dependent DEs have their drawbacks. Xfce still is and will be my
DE for a while, but I'm already testing Razor-Qt. It's not that good at
the moment, but since LXDE is similar ok as Xfce is, it might be
interesting to wait for LXDE-Qt. IIUC the Razor-Qt and LXDE folks work
together on LXDE-Qt. Perhaps LXDE-Qt would be a better choice as a
default DE for Debian and some other distros.

Regards,
Ralf


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Goodbye GNOME, Hello XFCE

[Stephen Powell]

Well, the latest update to Debian jessie did it.  GNOME 3 apparently
no longer has a "fallback mode" for X drivers which don't support 3D
acceleration.  Mine doesn't.  And the native GNOME 3 interface is
apparently unusable with such an X driver.

Goodbye, GNOME.  Hello, XFCE.  I hope Debian will make XFCE the
default desktop for the production jessie installer.

-- 
  .''`. Stephen Powell
 : :'  :
 `. `'`
   `-


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hping3 documentation error? [was: Re: hello,I have a problem]

[Darac Marjal]

Please use a more descriptive subject.

On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 05:40:19PM +0800, Gerald Suen wrote:
> man hping3
> -i --interval wait (uX for X microseconds, for example -i u1000)
> --fast alias for -i u1 (10 packets for second)
> --faster alias for -i u1000 (100 packets for second)
> --flood sent packets as fast as possible. Don't show replies.
> 
> 
> 1second=1000milliseconds
> 1millisecond=1000microseconds
> 
> so,I think it so be:
> -i --interval wait (uX for X microseconds, for example -i u1000)
> --fast alias for -i u1 (100 packets for second)
> --faster alias for -i u1000 (1000 packets for second)
> --flood sent packets as fast as possible. Don't show replies.

That seems sensible to me (additionally, I'd use "packets per second").
Report it as a wishlist bug against the hping3 package. For bonus
points, supply a patch.



signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

hello,I have a problem

[Gerald Suen]

man hping3
-i --interval wait (uX for X microseconds, for example -i u1000)
--fast alias for -i u1 (10 packets for second)
--faster alias for -i u1000 (100 packets for second)
--flood sent packets as fast as possible. Don't show replies.


1second=1000milliseconds
1millisecond=1000microseconds

so,I think it so be:
-i --interval wait (uX for X microseconds, for example -i u1000)
--fast alias for -i u1 (100 packets for second)
--faster alias for -i u1000 (1000 packets for second)
--flood sent packets as fast as possible. Don't show replies.


Am I wrong?


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hello to everyone

[LinuxIsOne]

Hello,

Hello to the Debian Community.

Thanks.

Re: Hello Debian developers

[Alishams Hassam]

Probably not. The last I read on the issue MS changed their protocols
(again) so alot of stuff like audio/webcam isn't working anymore. This
happened sometime after amsn's last release... and that was late 2010. Not
the most authoritative but someone's complained,
http://www.amsn-project.net/forums/index.php?topic=8292.0

It's very difficult asking people to switch something they've had a hard (or
long) time learning, but try to get your mom on something that's more open
than skype. Cause call me crazy but I don't doubt this type of thing will
stop in the proprietary world any time soon.

On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 8:57 PM, Rainer Bendig wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
> On 12.07.2011 20:47, Dardan Shatri wrote:
> > but none of them supports to talk with webcam
>
> According to
>
> http://cass.no-ip.com/~cassidy/blog/index.php/post/2009/09/14/MSN-audio/video-chat-in-Telepathy
> Empathy should do this job.
>
> --
> Viele Grüße aus Göppingen
> Rainer Bendig
>
>Hyte Software Inh. R. Bendig * Falkenstr. 75 * 73035 Göppingen
>   Deutschland * Tel 07161 3071981-0 * Fax 07161 3071981-9
>   www.hyte.eu * i...@hyte.eu
> USt-IdNr.: DE266408855
>
>
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>
>

Re: Hello Debian developers

[Rainer Bendig]

Hi,


On 12.07.2011 20:47, Dardan Shatri wrote:
> but none of them supports to talk with webcam 

According to
http://cass.no-ip.com/~cassidy/blog/index.php/post/2009/09/14/MSN-audio/video-chat-in-Telepathy
Empathy should do this job.

-- 
Viele Grüße aus Göppingen
Rainer Bendig

Hyte Software Inh. R. Bendig * Falkenstr. 75 * 73035 Göppingen
   Deutschland * Tel 07161 3071981-0 * Fax 07161 3071981-9
   www.hyte.eu * i...@hyte.eu
 USt-IdNr.: DE266408855


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Re: Hello Debian developers

[Nico Kadel-Garcia]

On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Dardan Shatri  wrote:
> Hello everybody
> I use debian since 4 years
> My mother asked me yesturday why i use debian
> and i explained to her, she told me the only reason i can use is the
> damn (Microsoft Windows live Messenger) and she told maby i acn ask
> somebodey to develop something
> like that i did a research there are a lot of alternatives like amsn kopete
> .. but none of them supports to
> talk with webcam thanks again if u have anything stable because she is not
> used to make console commands
> she uses mouse
> dardan shatri
> dardan.sha...@gmail.com

Would Skype work for you or them? Not a Debian specific tool, but I
like its accessibility and ease of use for international calls and
video calls.


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Hello Debian developers

[Dardan Shatri]

Hello everybody

I use debian since 4 years
My mother asked me yesturday why i use debian
and i explained to her, she told me the only reason i can use is the
damn (Microsoft Windows live Messenger) and she told maby i acn ask
somebodey to develop something
like that i did a research there are a lot of alternatives like amsn kopete
.. but none of them supports to
talk with webcam thanks again if u have anything stable because she is not
used to make console commands
she uses mouse

dardan shatri

dardan.sha...@gmail.com

Re: Hello

[Andrei Popescu]

On Thu,11.Mar.10, 09:01:02, surreal wrote:
> I am using a grsecurity hardened kernel downloaded from here -
> http://indiaforcekernel.googlecode.com/files/linux-image-2.6.32.9-grsecindiaforce1.1_1.1_i386.deb
> 
> It is patched to provide maximum security but it prevents segment
> relocation..
> 
> An example of this is -
> 
> r...@indiaforce:~# VirtualBox
> VirtualBox: Error -610 in supR3HardenedMainInitRuntime!
> VirtualBox: dlopen("/usr/lib/virtualbox/VBoxRT.so",) failed:
> /usr/lib/virtualbox/VBoxRT.so: cannot make segment writable for relocation:
> Permission denied
> 
> VirtualBox: Tip! It may help to reinstall VirtualBox.
> 
> 
> I got the above message while trying to execute VirtualBox-OSE.
> 
> Tried installing VirtualBox from source, and I got
> 
> Checking for Xmu: found, OK.
> Checking for Mesa / GLU: /home/harshad/VirtualBox-3.1.4-OSE/debian/.tmp_out:
> error while loading shared libraries: /usr/lib/libGL.so.1: cannot make
> segment writable for relocation: Permission denied
> 
> Is there any practical workaround for this, other then reinstalling other
> kernel??

I have no ideea how to fix your problem, but I would suggest posting 
with a better subject. No offence, but half the mails in my spam folder 
have "Hello" as a subject...

Regards,
Andrei
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signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Hello

[surreal]

I am using a grsecurity hardened kernel downloaded from here -
http://indiaforcekernel.googlecode.com/files/linux-image-2.6.32.9-grsecindiaforce1.1_1.1_i386.deb

It is patched to provide maximum security but it prevents segment
relocation..

An example of this is -

r...@indiaforce:~# VirtualBox
VirtualBox: Error -610 in supR3HardenedMainInitRuntime!
VirtualBox: dlopen("/usr/lib/virtualbox/VBoxRT.so",) failed:
/usr/lib/virtualbox/VBoxRT.so: cannot make segment writable for relocation:
Permission denied

VirtualBox: Tip! It may help to reinstall VirtualBox.


I got the above message while trying to execute VirtualBox-OSE.

Tried installing VirtualBox from source, and I got

Checking for Xmu: found, OK.
Checking for Mesa / GLU: /home/harshad/VirtualBox-3.1.4-OSE/debian/.tmp_out:
error while loading shared libraries: /usr/lib/libGL.so.1: cannot make
segment writable for relocation: Permission denied

Is there any practical workaround for this, other then reinstalling other
kernel??




-- 
Harshad Joshi

Re: Hello! Please, I need your help! An advice of what I need to download to

[Jimmy Johnson]

guido mezzalana wrote:


 Hi,
 
I am trying to sort it out the folloing problem about Debian installation.
 
The only problem I am getting is I have not sound! clickin on volume 
control is telling me:
 
 no volume control GS streamer plugins and/or devices found



Osamu has given you the information you need to solve your sound 
problem, if you can not get your sound to work I suggest that you 
reinstall the latest version of Mepis 8.0 and then ask for help at 
mepislovers.org where new users can get help when the do not know how to 
help themselves.

--
Jimmy Johnson

ANUBIS-EXT4 at sda9
Registered Linux User #380263



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Re: Hello! Please, I need your help! An advice of what I need to download to

[Osamu Aoki]

On Sun, Oct 04, 2009 at 06:55:49AM -0700, guido mezzalana wrote:
>  Hi,
>  
> I am trying to sort it out the folloing problem about Debian
> installation.
>  
> The only problem I am getting is I have not sound! clickin on volume
> control is telling me:
>  
>  no volume control GS streamer plugins and/or devices found 
>  

http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch09.en.html#_the_sound_infrastructure

Osamu


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