Bug#339837: Apparent author looks MIA
On Sun, Apr 09, 2006 at 12:10:12PM -0400, Filipus Klutiero wrote: After seeing this bug stalling for monthes, I have looked at www.d.o's CVS and tracked these statements back to the initial revision of webwml/english/security/index.wml, committed in 1998 by James A. Treacy, who looks MIA since August 2004. I am CC:ing him, but my guess is that if we're lucky enough to get a reply, it will be along the lines of This statement was accurate in a previous era, but needs new statistical grounding if the current maintainers still believe it is valid.. I do not see that my opinion on the future of a file I committed 8 years ago should carry much weight when I have not been involved with the web site for over 3 years. Additionally, this request comes in the middle of a long bug that I do not have the time to read now. As a general statement, though, I would agree that the contents of the Debian web site should not contain information that is wrong or intentionally misleading. As an aside, I most certainly have not been MIA since 2004. It is true that I have not been involved with the Debian web site much since 2002 and do not read the debian web related mailing lists, but my involvement with Debian continues. -- James Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian WWW CVS commit by srivasta: webwml/english/devel constitution.wml constitu ...
On Sat, Nov 08, 2003 at 03:09:13PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: On Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 06:06:14PM -0700, Debian WWW CVS wrote: CVSROOT:/cvs/webwml Module name:webwml Changes by: srivasta03/10/30 18:06:14 Modified files: english/devel : constitution.wml Added files: english/devel : constitution.1.1.wml Why is it necessary to have N files for N versions? Maybe it's just me, but why can't the obsoleted versions of the constitution be left in the CVS history (and other archive-like places), rather than littering the devel/ directory? Having the old versions around could be useful to see how Debian has evolved over the years. I suggest putting the old versions in a subdirectory though. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#214783: Typos on http://www.debian.org/events/keysigning
On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 10:39:13PM +0200, Gerfried Fuchs wrote: * Matt Kraai [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2003-10-08 10:44]: On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 07:09:08PM +0200, Martin Jansen wrote: -li Once you make sure everything went fine, you can send the signed key to +li Once you have made sure everything went fine, you can send the signed key to its recipient by doing: pre I don't think this is necessary. But I guess it would be good to at least do s/make/made/, because it requires an earlier time than present time. This looks like one of those cases where few native English speakers would use textbook proper English but many non-native speakers, used to a more precise language, find it confusing. Can I suggest the following: li Once everything looks good, you can send the signed key to -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#176437: www.debian.org: URL checker not checking
On Sun, Jan 12, 2003 at 10:13:16AM -0800, Larry Gilbert wrote: Package: www.debian.org Version: N/A; reported 2003-01-12 Severity: normal Within the Web site development pages, there are a couple of references to this directory: http://www-master.debian.org/~treacy/urlcheck/ That should be people.debian.org/~treacy/urlcheck/ Of course, it is still 4 months out of date. I'll try to remedy this now. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: free in free beer? (News/2003/20030102.wml)
On Mon, Jan 06, 2003 at 10:31:58AM +0900, Tomohiro KUBOTA wrote: The Test Drive Program is a free service of HP. I think that the free here is free beer, not free speech. Correct. Debian always says Debian is free software, in free speech meaning, not free beer meaning and we always fight against free-of-charge software interpretation. Thus, I think that the word free without any comments must mean free in free speech, not free beer, when the word is spoken by Debian. If Debian wants to mention about free beer, the word free has to have some comments. This is so backwards it isn't funny. In common usage, the word free is used in the sense of free beer 95% of the time. Having us go out of our way to quantify the common usage is silly. Luckily, in this case the context makes it clear what was intended (at least for a native speaker). As an aside, this is why I dislike the term 'free software'. It has nothing to do with agendas or politics. It is simply a bad term due to how misleading it is for people. People who hear the term for the first time think they know what is intended when, in fact, they have the wrong idea. Not exactly a good way to get an idea out. Now if the term chosen had been 'social software'... :) -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sorry, add wrong directory
On Wed, Dec 18, 2002 at 09:58:31AM +0800, Rex Tsai wrote: I'm very sorry that maked a mistake, I added a wrong directory at webwml/chinese/News/weekly/49 . Can we remove it ? (except cvs update -P) Removed. Note that people that have already added the dir due to a cvs update should remove it manually to avoid error messages. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
OT: birth announcement
(For those of you on this mailing list that still remember who I am) I would like to announce the birth of my two daughters, Jacqueline (7lb) and Claire (6lb 8oz), born on November 28. Needless to say, this has completely devoured all my free time (that includes sleeping). People tell me I should get my life back in about 20 years. :) -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian WWW CVS commit by joy: cron ./.cvsignore ./README ./common.sh ./lesso ...
On Fri, Nov 22, 2002 at 05:18:25PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: On related note, it just so happens that Ryan (one of the admins) has mentioned to me yesterday that we might want to create a dedicated user that would rebuild the web pages and deliver email to webmaster and such things. This would remove another dependency in our system, on specific accounts such as mine. The last time this was discussed it was turned down by some of the debian admins (culus, I think) to minimize the number of non-user accounts. The web pages are important and complicated enough that they really should have their own account. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian current weekly news should use indirect link
On Thu, Nov 21, 2002 at 02:46:15PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: On Wed, Nov 20, 2002 at 10:15:00AM +0800, Dan Jacobson wrote: The unchanging current URL is essential for us to use wwwoffle's monitor feature to fetch at regular intervals, but a level of indirection should be introduced So you're essentially asking us to change the symlink into an Apache redirect. This is certainly possible, but not trivial to work out since it requires an automatic way of adjusting the apache config files and signalling apache to pick it up... we'll see. The reason we have avoided this in the past is it requires us to convince the mirrors to apply any needed changes. Life would be so much easier if there was only one web site. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: many dead links on the Debian books page!!!
On Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 12:29:57PM +0100, Gerfried Fuchs wrote: * Roland Riegler [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2002-11-07 10:22]: no further comment. Please correct that. thanks Well, thank you for your nice message. Which links do you refer to? Our linkcheck just reports the following five links. http://www.mcp.com/detail.cfm?item=0672317451 : Error = (500) Server Error http://www.mcp.com/detail.cfm?item=0672317001 : Error = (500) Server Error For this two it can't find an DNS entry. http://www.newriders.com/ : Error = (405) Method Not Allowed Uhm, I can reach that one currently and see no problem there. The site tries to set a cookie. I didn't bother trying to handle that. [snip] http://www.borders.com/ : Error: site uses a non-compliant server. Not checkin That page gets redirected to amazon, amazon seems to have bought borders. Shall we change that link? Go ahead. OT: I note that when you go to www.amazon.com you get redirected to a unique url each time, e.g. www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/subst/home/home.html/102-4355343-3502569 ^^^ I can't see any reason they'd do that unless they are trying to track you. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: broken link
On Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 02:52:24PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: On Thu, Nov 07, 2002 at 06:16:58AM -0500, Rob Bultman wrote: The link to: /pool/updates/main/h/heimdal/libkrb5-17-heimdal_0.4e-7.woody.4_i386.deb found in page: http://www.debian.org/security/2002/dsa-183 is broken. That is because DSA-183 is obsoleted by DSA-185. Please see http://www.debian.org/security/2002/dsa-185 (Yeah, I know, we should have links to new advisories or something...) Alternatively, it is probably possible to configure apache to redirect broken links under security to the main security page or a page explaining the URL they used was wrong or the dsa has been superseded. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Congratulations on most confusing and worst website of any distro ....
On Tue, Nov 05, 2002 at 09:11:11PM -0600, Pharris, Chuck wrote: I'm patient enough to use Linux, but after five minutes and not finding how to simply download a copy to load.. Jigdo or whatevertoo confusing (e.g. took more than 3 clicks and 2 minutes to figure out)... Other download indicated minimal cd image only. I give up...good luck to you. You want simple? Buy a CD. They are there for people like you. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New deb mother tongue (CN problem)
On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 01:58:18PM -0700, Robin Rowe wrote:
I've set IE to only {en-ca}, but I still get en returned. Setting it to
{en-ca,fr} should, I think, return fr -- which it does. The
mod_negotiation.c code does a ranking to determine a best match and fr is an
exact match even if it is the second choice.
The situation that got me into this whole issue was that IE as installed by
Win2k is set to {en-us} rather than {en-us,en} as it probably should be.
With IE set to only {en-us} I was getting Debian pages in pr, despite the
fact that Portuguese was not one of the languages requested by the browser.
That is the bug I'm trying to fix, but can't replicate now.
Are we talking about the right problem?
You need to specify the url(s) used. Most, but not all, of the Debian
pages should handle en-us and en-gb just as en (due to the symlinks
Josip mentioned). Other variants, such as en-ca (alone with no valid
secondary choice) will return the smallest variant. It was random luck
that pr was the smallest variant for the pages you viewed.
--
James (Jay) Treacy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: broken link
On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 08:35:48PM -0700, Chris Tillman wrote: On http://www.debian.org/mirror, http://pepole.debian.org/~treacy/archive_mirror_check.out It is being recreated as I write this. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Internationalization
On Tue, Sep 17, 2002 at 06:41:55PM +0200, Mario Mommer wrote: Hi, Internationalization is a very nice feature and I'm sure many users are greatly relieved to have the debian pages in their own language. OTOH, it is fairly anoying to have to change the language on each page if you happen to be on a country with a different language than your own. Maybe the links on the .en pages should go only to .en pages, etc... If you set the language preferences in your browser this problem will go away. See http://www.debian.org/intro/cn.en.html -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: xlibs depend
On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 02:05:54PM +0200, brice wrote: in http://packages.debian.org/stable/libs/xlibs.html you say that it depend on xlibs is there something that i not get ? xlibs depend on xlibs ? Excuse my english i'm french ; sorry to disturb you ! bash$ apt-cache show xlibs | grep Depends Depends: xfree86-common ( 4.0), libc6 (= 2.2.4-4), libfreetype6, xlibs ( 4.1.0) I thought I added something in the script to get rid of self dependencies but its not a big deal. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian-based distros in a new page?
is a href=http://www.demolinux.org/en/versions/liste-simple-deb.3.0;also/a Debian based). -pDemoLinux is available from url http://www.demolinux.org/;, you -can get the CD images from url -ftp://www.demolinux.org/pub/demolinux/; (but please try first some -of the a -href=http://www.demolinux.org/en/distribution/obtenir-demolinux.html;mirrors/A). +pDemoLinux is available from url http://www.demolinux.org/; +CD images can be obtained from url +ftp://www.demolinux.org/pub/demolinux/; (please try one of the a +href=http://www.demolinux.org/en/distribution/obtenir-demolinux.html;mirrors/A first). -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian-based distros in a new page?
Just some minor corrections. On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 05:13:11PM -0700, Osamu Aoki wrote: I think description for the Debian JP is outdated. Following may be more true. (Please verify someone who has some tie with them. I am not a member of Debian JP.) x8 H2 name=debian-jpDebian JP/A pa href=http://www.debian.or.jp/;Debian JP/a (mostly in Japanese) was a volunteer-driven effort intended in making Debian-based ^^^ is [the project still exists even though its focus has changed] distribution based on emBo/em, ema href=$(HOME)/News/1998/19980828Hamm/a/em and emSlink/em versions customized for the Japanese end-users. Improvements included internationalization of the Debian distribution and released few CDs. [was the following intended?] the creation of CDs localized to Japanese. pSince emPotato/em started supporting locale directly through emGlibc (libc6)/em, a href=http://www.debian.or.jp/releases/jp-release.html.en;Debian JP project members migrated their packages to the main Debian project and contributed all the previous works to the main project/a. Now Debian JP project is mostly reduced to the translation projects and user support mailing lists. I'd change the last sentence to: Due to this work, the Debian JP project has been reduced to translation projects and user support mailing lists. pDebian JP provides links to the a href=http://www.debian.or.jp/CDROM.html;Debian CDROM/a disk images localized for Japanese based on the official release and old libc5 based Debian JP CDs. (In Japanese) -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: http://www.debian.org/distrib/archive
On Thu, Aug 08, 2002 at 06:35:19PM +0200, Josip Rodin wrote: On Thu, Aug 08, 2002 at 05:12:28PM +0100, Peter Karlsson wrote: There's supposed to be a list of mirrors at the bottom of this page. However, the list is empty. Joey and Jay should be able to install woody version of grep-dctrl on www-master now... nudge nudge It appears to be installed already. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: http://www.debian.org/distrib/archive
On Thu, Aug 08, 2002 at 08:18:53PM +0200, Josip Rodin wrote: On Thu, Aug 08, 2002 at 01:30:29PM -0400, James A. Treacy wrote: There's supposed to be a list of mirrors at the bottom of this page. However, the list is empty. Joey and Jay should be able to install woody version of grep-dctrl on www-master now... nudge nudge It appears to be installed already. Um, no, it doesn't: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/web/webwml/english/distrib]% dpkg -s grep-dctrl | grep ^Version Version: 1.3a We need 1.7. Woody has 1.9, according to packages.debian.org. Oops. I was on gluck. Installing a newer version of grep-dctl involves upgrading the whole machine to woody or recompiling. Do we need to do this or is www.d.o moving today? -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: cannot convert wml into html
On Fri, Aug 02, 2002 at 10:43:01AM +0200, Kaare Olsen wrote: On Thu, 1 Aug 2002 23:55:02 +0200 Giuseppe Sacco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I couldn't find the error in language_names.wml (where I think it is). Could someone try to fix it? Thanks. I've just noticed two things in regards to the 31 July Japanese commit of this file, 1) some languages not mentioned elsewhere in the file are now available in Japanese, 2) a comma was missing after one of those languages (Belarusian). I've added the missing comma but have no idea whether that will fix the problem. Also, it seems that the web site isn't building anymore, some changes I committed 19 hours ago haven't made it to the main site yet. The build that is currently in progress (Fri Aug 2 15:46:13 UTC 2002) seems to be working. It is currently working on the japanese pages. Will check on the build periodically. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Missing files japanese/international/l10n/{po,templates}/tmpl.src
In looking at build errors on www.d.o I noticed two failures in japanese/international/l10n. If the Japanese translation team wants the international/l10n directory to work better they should translate english/international/l10n/po/tmpl.src and english/international/l10n/templates/tmpl.src Neither file is very long. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
spanish/CD/artwork/index.wml is broken
In looking at the web site build errors I encountered the following when building webwml/spanish/CD/artwor/index.wml: ERROR:index.wml:204: EOF when reading argument of the `a' tag The file contains lines like the following: a href=http://www.heinschink.at/accounts/ntwfx/various/Linux/cdcovers/Deb+ img src=heinschink.at-Debian_woody_30_r0_Front.jpeg alt=[Debian_woody_30_r0_Front]/a Actually, it looks like the entire translation needs to be updated anyway. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
No Makefile in portuguese/banners/2.1
As the subject says, there is no Makefile in portuguese/banners/2.1/. Since the file was created on Jul 28 I want second guess what the creator intended and am not adding the Makefile. BTW, to prevent (non-fatal) build errors please add the appropriate Makefile to all directories added to CVS. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: No Makefile in portuguese/banners/2.1
Same goes for portuguese/CD/vendors/ -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#150014: www.debian.org: packages.debian.org: Use Mozilla instead of Netscape for the example
On Fri, Jun 14, 2002 at 10:59:13PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Package: www.debian.org Version: 20020614 Severity: wishlist On http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/download.pl (the page displayed when clicking go to download page on a package page) the following sentence is displayed on bottom: For example, in Netscape you should hold the Shift key when you click on the URL. Now that Mozilla 1.0 is out, it may be a good idea to change Netscape by Mozilla, also because Debian promote Free Software. The string has been changed to: For example, in Netscape or Mozilla you should hold the Shift key when you click on the URL. Closing the bug. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian WWW CVS commit by alfie: webwml/ nglish/security/2000/20000812.wml ngli ...
On Mon, May 06, 2002 at 05:11:52PM +0200, Gerfried Fuchs wrote: I am happy with either but personally think that after a : a new sentence starts and so it should also be in english gramtically correct to upercase it. If you like to change it back feel free to do so and/or change it to a dash -- at least at the places where that would fit. Not in all the things I uppercased the word after the : it would be replaceable by a -- (mdash;?). Ah, the joys of English. One use of a colon is before a part of a sentence that merely restates, explains, or gives an example of what has just been stated. In this instance, the word after the colon is not capitalized (unless it is a proper noun). For completeness, the proper use of the colon, semicolon and dash are: semicolon - to separate items in a series when the items contain commas - between main clauses that contain commas - between main clauses when the conjunction (and, but, for, or) has been left out - between main clauses connected by 'however', 'moreover', 'nevertheless', 'for example', 'consequently', etc. colon - after the word 'following' and similar expressions that introduce a list or series - before a long quotation - before a part of a sentence that merely restates, explain, or gives an example of what has just been stated - after the salutation of a business letter dash - to show a sudden change in thought - before a summary of what has just been stated in a sentence -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#143859: debian-boot unarchived since 2002-04-07
On Sun, Apr 21, 2002 at 12:27:43PM +0200, Florian Lohoff wrote: Package: listarchives Version: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 12:27:13 +0200 Hi, it seems that debian-boot is not archived sinve 2002-04-07 - The last mails are around 07/08 of April. If you look at the top of http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2002/debian-boot-200204/threads.html you'll notice that it is page 1 of 3. Try looking at the later pages. Closing the bug. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Avoiding outdated Makefiles
On Fri, Apr 05, 2002 at 10:58:18PM +0200, Denis Barbier wrote: I did not run 'check_trans.pl -M' for a while, and now many Makefiles are outdated. Instead of fixing them again and again, I am going to replace in every Makefile under french/ directory the whole content by a single line including adequate english/ Makefile. Does it sound crazy? This is probably a good idea 99% of the time. Additionally, if you do this and work out all the bugs we can add a note to the translation docs telling them to use the Makefiles from the French translation. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Update needed for translations of doc/books.wml
A number of translation of doc/books.wml still have a link to http://www.linuxpress.com/001002.htm under the book Debian User's Guide. This (broken) link should be removed from the page as part of updating the translation. Thanks. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Translators: remove link to wp8 on intro/why_debian.wml
The link to wp8 no longer works so translators should remove it from intro/why_debian.wml. Thanks. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Copy of wml compiled for stable available anywhere?
There is a link on http://www.debian.org/devel/website/using_wml to http://people.debian.org/~joey/webwml/debs/ which is broken. The intent of this link was to give access to a version of a recent version of wml compiled for stable. If anyone has a copy of this I'd love a copy so the link can be fixed. If I don't hear from anyone in a few days, I'll simply remove the link. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian WWW CVS commit by treacy: webwml/english/vote proposal.template
On Thu, Mar 21, 2002 at 12:30:32AM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: Added files: english/vote : proposal.template Log message: add missing proposal template Please don't tell me this has been sitting in your tree for years... :) BTW howto_proposal.wml says: All the guidelines are included in this A HREF=proposal.templatetemplate/A. SMALL(to be added soon)/SMALL I just made that file up today because I was tired of the broken link. In my rush, I forgot to remove the stuff in parentheses. I'll get rid of it now. I know I've been quiet on the list and not very fast in getting things done, but I wouldn't sit on a file for years! :) -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
urlcheck of Debian pages updated - please check any pages you maintain
Many broken links have been fixed since the last run. Unfortunately there are only a few people who have been doing most of the corrections. Please look at a section that you are interested in and fix any broken links. You can ask on the list if you are unsure what a link should be changed to. Sure this isn't exiting stuff, but many hands make light work. Note that pages some pages that time out aren't broken. This happens due to slow links, overloaded servers and sites that require cookies. I will fix the cookie problem when I get around to updating the urlchecker program. The next version will be about 10x faster. I am redoing it in ruby as a way to learn that language - what an amazing language. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: cvs locked
On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 07:36:18AM +0100, Martin Quinson wrote: Hello, I can't commit to the root of the webwml tree: cvs server: [22:32:54] waiting for treacy's lock in /cvs/webwml/webwml Am I unlucky, and are you, treacy just committing really large stuff (locking the dir for several minutes), or could someone with direct write access remove this lock ? This happens sometimes. It's just one of those things you have to live with when using cvs. The locks are always owned by me since the repository is under my uid. I just deleted two files in /cvs/webwml/webwml which may have been causing the problem. Try again. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: the top logo .jpg - .png?
On Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 04:04:13PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: Are there any objections to making all the web pages use the PNG version? Why not start by converting one image to see how it goes? BTW I'll think about converting the debian text at the top to PNG, too. Its fuzziness doesn't look nearly as bad as the one on the swirl, but we would still probably gain a bit on the file size if it's done properly. Now if only I could figure out how to add transparency with Gimp... Isn't lack of transparency support for png one of the reasons we put the switch off? -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: the top logo .jpg - .png?
On Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 09:43:19PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: On Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 03:10:37PM -0500, James A. Treacy wrote: Isn't lack of transparency support for png one of the reasons we put the switch off? No, it was the lack of support for PNG's transparency in Netscape 4. Hmm. Isn't that what I just said? -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Broken link page updated
The broken link pages have been updated. See http://people.debian.org/~treacy/urlcheck/ Help stamp out broken links! Note that the pages for international/ are incomplete. This should be fixed the next time the pages are updated. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: error in german homepage
On Tue, Feb 05, 2002 at 04:56:36AM +0100, Klaus Zerwes wrote: URI: http://www.debian.de/releases/woody/ 8--8 Die neue a href=installmanualInstallationsanleitung/a und die a href=releasenotesRelease-Informationen/p sind als Vorschau verf?gbar./p 8--8 missing end-tag /a Fixed in CVS. It should be visible within a few hours. Thanks for reporting this. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what's an OS on the front page
On Sat, Feb 02, 2002 at 12:17:39AM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: Will anyone mind if I remove the sentence explaining what's an operating system from the front page? Ignoring the fact Debian is hardly the type of thing people who don't know what an OS is should be dealing with, I figure there are probably more techies visiting our web pages that wonder what's GNU/Linux than non-techies that wonder what's an OS. And the latter can always click on Read more. The main reason this bothers me is that a lot of external sites use our initial paragraph for their description of Debian, and that always includes the OS definition which sounds pretty stupid... You need something to explain what a site is about for someone who stumbles across it. Of course, you are probably tired of me mentioning that I feel most of the stuff on the main page should be removed and put down a level. :) -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Fw: Re: RFC: renaming Distribution
On Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 10:57:46AM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: On Thu, Jan 24, 2002 at 09:18:47PM +, Matthew Bell wrote: - 2.2r3, 2.2r4, etc I believe these are called point releases. Perhaps the 'r' standing for 'release' is misleading; perhpas it should be a 'p' or '.'? The r is meant to be revision, I think. I'd suggest using 'minor revision' or 'security revision'. - distributing debian (the current title of /distrib/ is 'Distribution'. Ugh) hmmm...*searches through thesaurus*: acquisition; source; supply; suppliers? In that list I'd prefer acquisition, but somehow that doesn't sound simple as it should :) What is wrong with 'getting Debian'? The point of that page was to have one place with information on ftp servers, CD vendors and downloading iso images. It allows a single link from the main page (which then simplifies that page). One thing that would help is having a debian dictionary page. Key words could have links to the appropriate entry in the dictionary the first time they are used on pages for general consumption. This would have the added benefit of forcing the translators to think carefully of how they translate some key words and to then translate them consistently. Who _should_ be naming things? Do we need a MS like marketing division? One name for the techies and another for the website? or just let the people who deal with the public decide? Some people decide better than others... All it needs is someone with the energy to start it. Others will then give their suggestions (or start flames over points they disagree with :). -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: renaming Distribution
On Fri, Jan 18, 2002 at 07:53:25PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: Hi, It is apparent that the term distribution is overloaded with meanings. We use it for the /distrib/ web page, and mention it in several other places, meaning at least two things. This is confusing for the newbies and needlessly requires thinking from those who aren't newbies ;) So, I think the /distrib/ page should be renamed. Not the URL (that's too much work :), but the title and the links, including the navbar image. We should start by listing the terms we use and how we will use them. Instead of giving terms and what I think they should mean, I will list the items we need words for and people can have fun putting words to them. :) - 2.2r3, 2.2r4, etc - the versions for each of the architectures (i386, arm, powerpc, etc) - stable, unstable, sid, testing (do these need a different term than 2.2r3, 2.2r4, etc? At first glance you might think so, but do you really want people saying '2.2r3 release of debian released'?) - distributing debian (the current title of /distrib/ is 'Distribution'. Ugh) (Anything else we need a term for?) One thing that would help is having a debian dictionary page. Key words could have links to the appropriate entry in the dictionary the first time they are used on pages for general consumption. This would have the added benefit of forcing the translators to think carefully of how they translate some key words and to then translate them consistently. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: automatic language selection
On Sat, Jan 19, 2002 at 12:47:40AM -, Tiago Ferreira wrote: Your web pages' language being automaticaly selected is quite annoying since it happens even after selecting a link from the english version. Just because I live in Portugal doesn't mean I want to read a Brazzilian Portuguese translation of your web pages. If I choose the english version and then click a link within it the page is in brazzilian portuguese again, this shouldn't happen . And I point out that Portuguese(Portugal) and Portuguese(Brazil) are NOT the same thing, so if in my browser I selected Portuguese(pt) as preferred language and that version isn't available the page should be displayed in english. I think the best way would be to let it be configured on the page like it's usually done and not based on browser configuration. Please configure your preferred languages to what you want. You asked for Portuguese (pt) and that is what you got. If you only want to be served Portuguese from Portugal, then use pt_PT. I'm not sure what you mean by the way it's usually done. The standard for preferred language has been around for years and we have been using it for at least three years on the site. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: removal of several pserver accounts
On Wed, Jan 16, 2002 at 12:20:32PM +0100, Jordi Mallach wrote: On Mon, Jan 14, 2002 at 01:32:10AM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: I have removed a bunch of accounts that are obsolete -- treacy, clebars, ^^ Heh. In all the times I looked at that file I never removed myself. :) -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: /legal/
On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 06:39:52PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: Since there's a lot of it there and it tends to pile up (there are other undocumented legal issues around, too), I propose nobody objects to me creating /legal/ on the web site. OK? :) Go ahead. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
tags and attributes in wml files (related to xhtml)
Denis Barbier wrote: nearly all required changes were already described in the bugreport: a. Put all tags and attributes (but not attribute values) in lowercase letters b. Optional end tags are no more supported, so psome text here must be written psome text here/p c. Empty tags must contain a trailing slash, e.g. img src=logo.gif alt=Logo becomes img src=logo.gif alt=Logo / (extra space is recommended in order to give old browser a chance to parse this tag without trying to interpret this trailing slash) And I would also add d. Always enclose attributes within quotes I am quoting the above because someone recently changed a file to convert all the attributes to uppercase. That's going in the opposite direction from where we want to go! When editing wml files, we should start moving all the tags and attributes to lowercase. You don't need go change every file today, simple start changing them when you are editing the file anyway. Same goes for items b, c and d above. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: /News/
On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 09:59:45PM +0100, peter karlsson wrote: The current page on /News/ only displays the entries for the current year, which currently is not very much. Wouldn't it be better if it either showed the last ten (as /security/ does), or all for current year or the last ten like /News/weekly/ does? It is supposed to grab from the current year, dipping into the previous year if there aren't enough. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#128859: www.debian.org: /devel/wnpp/ appears to be empty.
On Sat, Jan 12, 2002 at 02:35:53PM +1100, Matt Hope wrote: Package: www.debian.org Severity: serious the /devel/wnpp/ pages appear to be broken, all categories read no packages or similar. Fixed. Thanks for reporting this. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HTML syntax errors, final episode
On Tue, Jan 08, 2002 at 09:04:49AM +0100, Denis Barbier wrote:
On Mon, Jan 07, 2002 at 11:24:50PM -0500, James A. Treacy wrote:
[...]
wnpp, events, consultants and security are now fixed.
There is still one problem with wnpp.{pl,wml}, it can contain ul/ul
which is invalid (although not reported by tidy).
Can you give an example? I just checked the html files for /ul\s*\// and
got no results.
--
James (Jay) Treacy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HTML syntax errors, final episode
On Tue, Jan 08, 2002 at 09:04:49AM +0100, Denis Barbier wrote:
There is still one problem with wnpp.{pl,wml}, it can contain ul/ul
which is invalid (although not reported by tidy).
wnpp.pl now prints a single list item when there are no packages of a
given type. Someone else can internationalize this if they wish.
--
James (Jay) Treacy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HTML syntax errors, final episode
On Tue, Jan 08, 2002 at 01:09:40AM +0100, Denis Barbier wrote: Almost all English pages have been fixed, great :) Still to be fixed are: * generated pages under /devel/wnpp/ * /ports/hurd/ * s//amp;/ in some data files which generate /CD/vendors/index /consultants/ /devel/people /events/ * /mirror/submit.en.html which will not be fixed in order to help rendering by older Netscape * /searchtmpl/search.en.html; as this is a template file, it cannot be fixed and will be removed from validation output. Is there someone to contact for the first 2, or do we have to fix them ourselves? wnpp, events, consultants and security are now fixed. I'm leaving the one in devel/people. It is a package maintained by a group (Michael Bramer Martin Bialasinski). Group maintained packages is a mess. We should have a mechanism for giving them a standard alias that is expanded into the list of people. Currently, you can put anything you like in the maintainer address portion of a package. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian WWW people page
On Sat, Jan 05, 2002 at 12:15:25PM +0530, Muthukrishnan, Ramakrishnan wrote: I have a suggestion. Why not this be done on the basis of the email id. For example, if in the above case, the listing was done based on email, then, all my packages would have been listed in one place. Take a look at the script to see what is done. I had what I thought was a nice scheme that would catch most developers (I think email or fully matching name was the starting point). There ended up being a bunch of special cases to deal with. With time the number of special cases has grown. Lately, we have simply been adding an if statement for each person who doesn't fit the mold. This is something that would be so easy if Debian forced developers to use their name and address consistently. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HTML syntax errors
On Sun, Jan 06, 2002 at 02:28:58PM +0100, Denis Barbier wrote: On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 05:19:20PM -0500, James A. Treacy wrote: [...] Almost all are in the News directory. the Weekly News is particulary bad. [...] I will fix /News/ tonight, unless someone is going to do it. You are a brave man. :) -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HTML syntax errors
The urls in the search results should be modified to escape ampersands. For example, tda HREF=/index?q=gccnp=1m=andps=102/a/td to tda HREF=/index?q=gccamp;np=1amp;m=andamp;ps=102/a/td -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HTML syntax errors
On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 06:04:41PM +0100, Denis Barbier wrote: Hi, http://people.debian.org/~barbier/validate/en contains a list of errors reported by an HTML validator (wdg-html-validator) for all English pages except /doc/manuals/ and /releases/. Do we want to fix those syntax errors? The mistakes in devel/join/ (that are left) are due to: 1 p 2 ul/ul 3 /p It complains that line 3 has an 'end tag for element P which is not open'. It looks like lists are not allowed in paragraphs. Is this the case? If so, I'll fix these. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HTML syntax errors
On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 06:04:41PM +0100, Denis Barbier wrote: Hi, http://people.debian.org/~barbier/validate/en contains a list of errors reported by an HTML validator (wdg-html-validator) for all English pages except /doc/manuals/ and /releases/. Do we want to fix those syntax errors? The validator has some problems: *** Errors validating /org/www.debian.org/www/mirror/ftpmirror.en.html: *** Line 148, character 76: general entity content-type not defined and no default entity and *** Errors validating /org/www.debian.org/www/security/2001/dsa-080.en.html: *** Line 100, character 81: general entity aid not defined and no default entity Line 100, character 92: general entity group not defined and no default entity Line 100, character 106: general entity atid not defined and no default entity In partners/index.en.html, the author wants to use a p in a list. Just change them to br? You really should be able to have paragraphs in a list. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HTML syntax errors
On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 06:04:41PM +0100, Denis Barbier wrote: Hi, http://people.debian.org/~barbier/validate/en contains a list of errors reported by an HTML validator (wdg-html-validator) for all English pages except /doc/manuals/ and /releases/. Do we want to fix those syntax errors? There is a single error in Bugs/index.en.html I didn't look into. Almost all are in the News directory. the Weekly News is particulary bad. There are a few in consultants, wnpp, international and searchtmpl There are quite a number of problems in doc/maint-guide and doc/developers-reference I have no idea what the author intended with the html for the following: ** Errors validating /org/www.debian.org/www/ports/alpha/news.en.html: *** Line 255, character 26: document type does not allow element DIV here; missing one of APPLET, OBJECT, MAP, IFRAME, BUTTON start-tag ports/powerpc/inst/apus.en.html and ports/powerpc/inst/prep.en.html have a tag prgn. No idea what that is. ports/powerpc/inst/install.en.html includes lines like the following: tr/trtr bgcolor=#f3f3f3 tdstrongApple/strong/td td/td /tr A little strange, but anything wrong with an empty row? I didn't touch ports/hurd. I believe I fixed all the other errors. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian WWW CVS commit by treacy: webwml/english/mirror submit.wml
On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 10:50:47PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 12:09:05PM -0800, Debian WWW CVS wrote: CVSROOT:/cvs/webwml Module name:webwml Changes by: treacy 02/01/03 12:09:05 Modified files: english/mirror : submit.wml Log message: textarea has no attributes maxlength and wrap so deleted them No, wait, those made sense in netscape or some such, I tested them once... I think... I was simply going by the html spec. I apologize for doing something so foolish. :) -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: HTML syntax errors
On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 09:22:37PM +, Jaime E. Villate wrote: On Thu, Jan 03, 2002 at 03:44:31PM -0500, James A. Treacy wrote: In partners/index.en.html, the author wants to use a p in a list. Just change them to br? You really should be able to have paragraphs in a list. You can have paragraphs inside listitems; in fact, I usually do the following: Take a look at partners/index.en.html . What is wrong with the p at line 129? -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: new front page, take 1
On Mon, Dec 31, 2001 at 02:53:45PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: Which reminds me, I need to bug the admins again (JT?) to change the log format so we can see useragents. I'm really starting to believe CSS would be acceptable for the vast majority of viewers, but we should have more numbers. Tell me the change and I'll do it. If you want me to do it, just yell at me and I'll figure it out myself. :) -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: probabvly a country was forgotten in vendor page
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 11:49:15AM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: On Tue, Dec 25, 2001 at 11:24:44AM +0100, Giuseppe Sacco wrote: it also seems to me that a line like a href=#phPHc/anbsp;nbsp; is missing. Should I add it? And Philippines should be added to template/debian/countries.wml (or wherever that is these days :) That is the file and it has been added. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian WWW CVS commit by danish: webwml/english/events material.wml
On Wed, Dec 26, 2001 at 12:46:59PM +0100, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote: -provide flyers. Flyers have the ability to solve many questions will -have in mind regarding Debian, can entice them to contribute and it's -paper they can take notes in! All in all, they are pretty useful. +provide flyers. Flyers have the ability to solve many questions +regarding to Debian, can entice people to contribute and for it's +paper they can take notes on it! All in all, they are pretty useful./p How about: Flyers can answer many questions about Debian, can entice people to contribute, and can be used to take notes! Regardless, the 'to' between 'regarding' and 'Debian' should be removed. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#125975: packages.debian.org: extra space after maintainers' address
On Thu, Dec 20, 2001 at 05:15:54PM +0100, Robert Millan wrote: Package: www.debian.org Severity: minor On every package's description page, after referring to the maintainer with a link to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] there's an extra space that is also included in the link. I just checked http://packages.debian.org/stable/admin/acct.html which includes the following: psmalla href=mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Dirk Eddelbuettel/a is responsible for this Debian package./small Where is the extra space? Can you give the URL for a page that shows the behavior you mention? -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Converting the template file to xhtml
I have mostly converted the template files as per the previous discussion. Just a few comments: template/debian/weekly/ wasn't touched (plan to do it later) there are some p in the template files. I didn't create corresponding /p I won't be able to touch this until after Christmas and didn't want to commit something that may have errors in it, so I put the modified files in http://people.debian.org/~treacy/templates/ . If anyone has the time to deal with any mistakes, feel free to grab them and do the commit. If not, I'll deal with them when I get back. Happy holidays to all. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#98811: about XHTML compliance
On Sun, Dec 16, 2001 at 11:28:27PM +0100, Denis Barbier wrote: nearly all required changes were already described in the bugreport: a. Put all tags and attributes (but not attribute values) in lowercase letters b. Optional end tags are no more supported, so psome text here must be written psome text here/p c. Empty tags must contain a trailing slash, e.g. img src=logo.gif alt=Logo becomes img src=logo.gif alt=Logo / (extra space is recommended in order to give old browser a chance to parse this tag without trying to interpret this trailing slash) And I would also add d. Always enclose attributes within quotes Any objections to my applying the changes above to all the template files? Should the first line be change: !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ports disappeared from www.debian.org?
On Fri, Dec 14, 2001 at 03:04:23PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: The PowerPC and Hurd pages look good -- they have more than just generic information. The Alpha and SPARC pages seem like they could be getting there, too. Note that I'm not saying there's anything wrong about generic information, it's just that it's pointless to have a whole section just about that (think maintenance, multiply by the number of translations), one page would suffice for a list of respective port mailing lists. :/ Perhaps we should come up with some guidelines for the port pages. What I'm thinking of here is a main page that provides standard information with a link to developer pages for that platform. Ideally there wouldn't be any special pages in there on installing debian since that information should be in the releases directory. Of course, life is never ideal. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: web site reorganization
On Fri, Dec 14, 2001 at 07:53:16PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: On Fri, Dec 14, 2001 at 12:39:33PM -0500, James A. Treacy wrote: My idea of a main page is one that let's you quickly find a subpage that will get you the information you want. With that in mind, the new front page will have less information than it currently has. Links: About Debian News Getting Debian Developers' Corner International Pages Documentation/Support Pages Security Supported Architectures Supporting Debian Site Map Search Looks like you would have the main page provide links the most important other pages. I think this would be okay, but it's ignoring the types of users. I strongly disagree. This is the only way to serve the different kinds of users. :) I was thinking of a little bit different approach. I think the people who are visiting www.debian.org (and mirrors, of course :) can be divided into the following categories: * random surfers (just cruisin', or interested in installing Linux -- to us there is little difference due to the nature of our distribution) * Linux users, merely heard about Debian * Linux users who want to install Debian * Debian users * Debian developers (and wannabees) I would simplify this to newbies, people who know something about unix/linux and developers. It is fine to break down people by the different kinds of experience they have, but an experienced unix person is still a newbie when it comes to installing linux. In the end we're shooting for the same goal (make it easier to navigate the site) so let's ignore this for now. Now, each of these needs attention, if we intend to keep them on the web pages. Also, we'd want to convert group 2 to group 3, and group 3 to group 4. :) That sounds a bit like we are proselytizing. Perhaps we are, but I prefer to be more subtle about it. You can't beat giving the users a good experience to gain new users. For each respective category, I think we need to provide the following: * general information about Debian, quick and dirty * extended general information about Debian * information on getting Debian, and some information on using Debian * everything about using Debian * everything I think we should remove the blue box, and make four to five smallish boxes (paragraph groups) for each category of users. The opening lines we have now can stay in the first one. The second one should have links to the stuff in intro/about (we should separate that one into a few pieces) and a few other things. The fourth should have links to the stuff that can be downloaded and the installation docs. The fifth is a bitch :) because it will have to be big. The sixth can basically be a pointer to the developers' corner. One of the primary goals in pushing this is to make it easier for people to find the information they need. Currently, there is: Too much information on the main page people looking at something new can't focus on more than 8-10 items on a page. We have over 40. Even the new proposal has 11 items, which is pushing it. Some of the information in other pages is not well organized. most of it isn't bad, but there is a lot of room for improvement as recent threads on debian-www show. I prefer to look at how someone will navigate the site under different situations. For example (for simplicity using the rfc I submitted): Someone looking to install Debian: Proposal Sees an obvious link called 'Getting Debian' and goes to that page Sees links 'installation instructions', 'installing off the net', 'buying CDs' and 'downloading CD images' (this is a new addition. After the latest thread on this I checked out cdimage.d.o and read up on the uber cool pseudo-image-kit). Currently The existing Distribution page is awful. The current links on the main page are too terse for newbies. With them on their own page they can be accompanied by a line of explainion. Someone who stumbles on our page and wonders what this debian thing is: Proposal Sees an obvious link called 'About Debian' which has a nuber of topics well laid out. The About page has only 1 paragraph of explanatory material and links which expand on the ideas. They can read as much or as little as they choose. Currently Ah, there is a nice link called 'About'. Ugh. It is 8 screenfulls long (quickly runs away). Someone looking for latest security advisories: Proposal Sees an obvious link to the security page. Current After reading through two screenfulls of text and links finally sees a bunch of security advisories on the third screen. Oh wait, after reading the blue box again, I notice a link under Support to the security page quietly curses Debian webmasters. Thinking about design, we could probably apply the same theme we have in /devel/, or something along those lines. I
Re: RFC: web site reorganization
this is a Debian focused effort too. If it's not just for debian, I'd put it on the related links page. SUPPORTED ARCHITECTURES (/ports/) Suggestions for improving existing page? Suggestions for a different name? I like the Platforms suggestions. It implies more software/kernel/OS level infrastructure. The average Joe knows what a different architecture is (mac vs PC), but would wonder why Debian has issues (platforms). If there is room for an explanatory text it would be ok. related links (about debian page? documentation page?) I think these should be distributed to the bottom of the different sub-section pages in context rather than collected. Hmmm. More work, but doable. Other opinions? Thanks for your comments. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: web site reorganization
On Fri, Dec 14, 2001 at 10:04:49PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: What I'm proposing is to make a paragraph for Getting Debian on the front page, instead of just a link. I'd prefer to leave discusssions for the details of the main page until we decide the overall layout. [snip] Yes, I said above that it should be split up :) It was just an example. We can agree you know. :) Euh, I didn't say /devel/ should be changed, I meant the front page. Good. Josip, it looks like we are thinking more along the same lines than I thought from reading your response. Guess we just needed to get oriented. Where should the following go: awards page related links (about debian page? documentation page?) debian-jr project is currently in devel corner Miscellaneous? Dunno about debian-jr, though. Why would you click on it unless you knew what you wanted is in there. Things should be EASY to find. I want the miscellaneous page to go away forever. Hm, point. Then again, some things are simply not sortable into the categories we have. This will need more discussion. Any other ideas? -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Deliberate web site reorganization
On Fri, Dec 14, 2001 at 05:41:31PM -0500, Jeff Albro wrote: If you take a look at the server logs, you can see where people went from the main page. (grep for home page as referring link) You can tell how people are using it now. I suspect you won't find people clicking on the Debian International link because it is not clear what it means. Maybe you'll find that 90% go straight to the installation. Do more people read the DWN than the event centered news releases? Are more than 5% of people going to the mirrors? Are they worth having? Let's find out! http://klecker.debian.org/webalizer/ What the logs don't tell you is the feedback the webmasters have received. They also don't tell you intention. It is very easy to have a frequently requested page that is only requested because users are misled. If you find any specific pages that are not convenient but frequently requested, please let us know. It is always dangerous to design by a single criteria. There are always competing criteria you are trying to optimize. Frequently the goals are at odds with each other. Trying to optimize common paths is competing with the goals of keeping pages a reasonable length (not to short or long) and keeping related material together. A basic guideline: Make links based on action. Install Debian Support Debian Use verbs. Let people take direct action. Instead of a link to the security mailing list, let people input their e-mail address. Name links using verbs. Not a bad idea. It's not clear what you mean by the e-mail address for security mailing list though. Can we agree that the MAIN purpose of a homepage is to jump off to further information? I think the news and secruity updates belong on the page, but need to remain secondary priorities. This is what is being advocated in the RFC. [stuff about design snipped] I'm a firm believer that form should follow function. Thus, we should figure out what we want where and then discuss what the pages shold look like. At least make it a different thread. If you feel otherwise, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter. I guess what I am asking for is DELIBERATE redesign. To me, this means: It seems to me that is what the RFC is for. I deliberately kept the RFC on the short side (left out a lot of reasoning) so people would actually read it. :) -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intro WWW pages
Hmm. the person that wrote the following has no attribution in the mail I'm responding to. One of the biggest publicity items for Debian is it's website, however the very important /intro/ section seems less than complete to me. I intend to help out in this area and I wanted to see if there are others that would like to help as well and discuss some ideas. First, the /intro pages seem like a good place to summarize the project and how it works. The Reasons to Choose Debian is a nice list but I feel the top three or four items should be chosen to Frame the discussion. The place to discuss the web site is on debian-www. Before people jump into details, any reorganization needs to start by looking at the big picture. We need to look at how typical users use the site and make sure we serve them. IMO, that means newbies, people with linux/unix experience and developers. Much of the same goes for the intro section. There is a lot of material there (and more that can be added). If the organization is not well thought out in advance, it is unlikely to be an improvement on what is already there. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intro WWW pages
On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 12:06:41PM -0800, Grant Bowman wrote: I agree, this shouldn't be done haphazardly. I was trying to get a more concrete suggestion worked out about the content before moving on through the process and bringing it to this list. I think it's great if both lists participate. I probably should have cc'd it myself. Another reason it is imperative that we have something concrete before committing it is so we don't burn out translators. They need to have something that isn't going to constantly change from under them. One thing you need to keep in mind is that we are volunteers (also :). That means that people may not respond right away or have time to give feedback at every turn. This can lead to discouragment in the person who is trying to make progress. I'd like to see this attempt at fixing the site layout not die. :) -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian WWW CVS commit by danish: webwml/danish/international/l10n/data
On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 10:25:20PM +0100, Kaare Olsen wrote: On Thu, 13 Dec 2001 22:08:50 +0100, Denis Barbier wrote: Directory /cvs/webwml/webwml/danish/international/l10n/data added to the repository this directory is useless. I can't seem to get rid of it; while both it and scripts was removed from my local cvs tree and neither won't come back when I run an update. You're welcome to remove the data directory from danish, I can't... Inability to remove a directory without direct access to the repository is one of the annoying limitations of CVS. I have deleted it. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ports disappeared from www.debian.org?
On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 06:43:38PM -0800, Grant Bowman wrote: * James A. Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] [011213 18:27]: On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 06:35:06PM -0700, Chris Tillman wrote: The term 'Ports' itself is in effect an i386-ism. Supported Architectures is much more descriptive to non-developer types. As always there are competing goals. Keeping the string short is one of them. What about Architectures? Is this too long? The problem with this term is that it is generally used to denote different hardware and thus doesn't do justice to the port to the hurd. Frankly, I don't believe any word will be acceptable to all and I'd stick with Ports. After all, every release is a port of Debian - including x86 if we want to state it that way. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Moving euro to the front page?
Let me repeat myself and what a few others have said: This is newsworthy, since many (European) people will be interested in it. Thus, it warrants a news item and the corresponding place it would then receive on the front page (until enough other items are generated that it is no longer displayed). -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [oferk@oren.co.il: debian]
On Tue, Dec 11, 2001 at 10:49:31PM +0100, Richard Atterer wrote: To make it easier for CD vendors to provide a high quality disk we provide Official CD images for them. simply because he's not a vendor. (Even /I/ only followed it after searching elsewhere for a long time when I first downloaded Debian CDs.) There should be something like When we first started distributing the iso images, we had a problem with people downloading them when that is not what they wanted. Thus, the wording above. Also, since bandwidth is donated, we need to be careful that we don't exceed the good will of our sponsors. With the new (well it's existed for a few years now) set of pages on cdimage.d.o that preface the download page maybe the first item isn't a concern. The issue of bandwidth should be looked into, though, before we make the links more obvious. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: rebuild web site after each commit
On Tue, Dec 11, 2001 at 05:36:33PM -0800, Matt Kraai wrote: Howdy, Would it be possible to add a hook so that the web site is rebuilt after each commit, or would this overload klecker? Isn't every 6 hours good enough for you? Even the security folks said that would be good enough for them (we even offered to update the security pages more frequently - after all, it's just one line in a crontab). -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation Instructions link
What is the proper mailing list for this be discussed? This discussion should be moved there. On Tue, Dec 11, 2001 at 06:45:46PM -0700, Chris Tillman wrote: There is a link from the front page to Installation Instructions, which takes you to a link below the fold on the Installation page. I think it would be better to take you to the top of that page, because then you can see the list of architectures and check out the Ports link for your arch before proceeding to the manual. I agree, but I'd rather see the link be to a much shorter page. There is a not so fine line between sites that have only one screenful of information per page and sites that have huge pages. For me, http://www.debian.org/releases/stable is 12 pages long - much too long. I'd like to see each of the links at the top of the page be to a separate page: * General Information * Release Notes * New Installations * Errata * Reporting Problems * Credits One minor nit about this page is that it is not clear what someone who is upgrading should go. Also, there are two ways to handle having multiple arches: have each section have links to the pages for each arch (as is currently done) or to have the user select once what their arch is. I know it would be a big change but feel that the second solution would make life easier when installing. On the other hand, it would probably make the life of those writing those pages much harder. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: fixed MD5 sum for dsa-091-1 advisory
On Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 10:16:12AM +0100, Wichert Akkerman wrote: Previously James A. Treacy wrote: It seems wrong to go around changing mailing list archives. This doesn't help those that compare the checksum using the original announcement. http://www.debian.org/security/ is not a mailinglist archive, it needs to be done manually there. But those pages do not include the md5sum. They are accessed through a link to the original advisory - which is in the mailing list archive. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Moving euro to the front page?
On Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 02:20:58PM +0100, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña wrote: I'm currently compiling the euro-support package which has been some time in experimental (waiting for bugs :) to move it to unstable. This package, however, due to the current problems in changing configuration files in Debian easily (and my lack of time) is a documentation-only package (and a test script). If it's that important, make an announcement and send it to the people who can post to debian-announce (someone else will hopefully jump in here with who that is). It will then be posted on the web site. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Upstream Developers
On Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 01:38:28PM -0200, Gustavo Noronha Silva wrote: On Fri, 7 Dec 2001 00:00:47 -0500 James A. Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We'd love to make that info available. Unfortunately, no one has managed to push through a standard way of providing that information in packages. Until that is done, it won't be done - unless you want to volunteer to try to manually create an maintain such a list for all 8600 packages. :) why not debian/copyright? I think an URL to the official webpage is much more useful than the ftp site from wich you can download the tar.gz... The same applies: if people want information about upstream to appear on the package web pages then that information needs to be made available in a known place in a canonical form so it can be easily parsed. Before anyone points out that the location for the source should already appear in the copyright file, please take a look at a number of copyright files and you'll quickly realize that you would need an AI in order to grab the correct information (when it is even available). -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: fixed MD5 sum for dsa-091-1 advisory
On Fri, Dec 07, 2001 at 01:57:26AM +0100, Wichert Akkerman wrote: It seems an incorrect md5sum managed to get into dsa-091-1. The checksum for the dsc file is wrong, it should be: 4d7fb3727479974637b7a7d5a0fec725 Can someone please fix that on the webpage? It seems wrong to go around changing mailing list archives. This doesn't help those that compare the checksum using the original announcement. Shouldn't an updated security announcement be made? -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Upstream Developers
On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 10:00:41PM -0500, Scott E. Tablett wrote: I sometimes use the debian web pages to locate packages of interest. To find out more information on a package/application, it might be helpful to have a link to the upstream developer's web pages. We'd love to make that info available. Unfortunately, no one has managed to push through a standard way of providing that information in packages. Until that is done, it won't be done - unless you want to volunteer to try to manually create an maintain such a list for all 8600 packages. :) -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: consultants/ won't build
On Wed, Dec 05, 2001 at 02:23:36PM +0100, Denis Barbier wrote: wml -q -D CUR_YEAR=2001 -o UNDEFuEN:[EMAIL PROTECTED] index.wml ePerl:Error: Cannot convert bristled code file `/tmp/wml.31971.tmp1.wml' to pure HTML ** WML:Break: Error in Pass 3 (rc=74). make: *** [index.en.html] Error 1 whatever the hell that means... Broken consultant.data, a patch is attached (I cannot commit from my box here). [snip] -phone +359-2-9877088 +phone +359-2-9877088 Do you have an easy way of tracking down this sort of thing? Also, slices that aren't closed are a pain to find. It would be really cool if wml gave a line number and a file name (the problem may be in an included file) when it pukes. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: cometh ?
On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 03:29:23PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: I would like English page writers to remind that the pages are written not only by native English speakers but also by users and translators from all over the world. Yes, this is sometimes a problem. Uncommon English terms and idioms tend to cause confusion among non-native speakers. For example, the laptops web page had Debian on the Go as its title. This was translated in Croatian as if Go was a thing :) I can understand why this happened -- the translator didn't know the idiom and the word go was weirdly uppercased. I'll make a note somewhere on the web pages about this... I would word it something like the following: Since the Debian web pages are read by non-native speakers of english and are translated into other languages, it is best to write in clear simple english and avoid the use of slang, obscure idioms and old english words. If you do use them, add a comment(*) to the file explaining the meaning. (*) Any line in a .wml file beginning with a '#' is a comment. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: cometh?
On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 10:23:07PM +0900, Tomohiro KUBOTA wrote: Hello, I am now translating webwml/english/releases/woody/index.wml into Japanese. However, I don't understand the word cometh which is used as h2Woody Cometh/h2 as a title. I consulted some dictionaries but I could not find... Could someone please tell me the meaning of the word? Woody is on it way Woody approaches Woody is just around the corner Woody to be released soon Even though 'soon' is not well defined, native speakers would only use the last one if the release was going to be in the next few days. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: english/devel/people.names
On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 05:46:26PM +0100, Gerfried Fuchs wrote: The script that does the english/devel/people.names does take the surename of the developer as a name= tag. Wouldn't it be much better to use the login of the person, for several reasons? The login is known to be unique - the surname must not. We might be happy to not have been hitten by that yet but it might happen. I can't estimate what the impact by this change might be. But personally I could sleep better with knowing that the page won't produce any problems in the future than rather not doing it because we fear of some flaming to that respect. The login is unique, but not what people know. Also, there are packages maintained by groups that have no account. Their 'name' is something obnoxious like 'QA testing'. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Addition http://www.debian.org/security/faq/
On Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 08:03:30PM +0100, Wichert Akkerman wrote: Since I just removed a bunch of old packages from security.debian.org I suspect this may be a useful addition to the faq: Q: I am trying to download a package that is listed in one of the security advisories and I get a file not found error. A: If a newer fix is available for a package we remove the older fixes. This prevent people from installing a package from security.debian.org that we know is not secure. Could the answer be clarified? 'newer fix' is not well defined and the answer doesn't help me go about finding which package should be installed. For the latter, 'install the latest version from stable (unstable)' would be sufficient (if it is correct). Also, I'd like the question replaced with the following: Q: I tried to download a package listed in one of the security advisories but get a `file not found' error. -- James (Jay) Treacy I have made this letter longer than usual [EMAIL PROTECTED]because I lack the time to make it shorter. - Blaise Pascal
Re: New version of /intl/l10n/ pages
On Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 01:14:46AM +0100, Denis Barbier wrote: could a webmaster please replace /org/www.debian.org/cron/daily_updates/1l10ndata on www-master.d.o by this new one? Thanks. Done. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: update page
On Thu, Nov 29, 2001 at 03:21:32PM +0100, Gerfried Fuchs wrote: * James A. Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2001-11-28 10:26]: On Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 12:34:37PM +0100, Gerfried Fuchs wrote: P.S.: In general, it isn't a must for translators to read this list, unfortunately... While we don't enforce the policy, we do state on the translation pages that translators should subscribe to debian-www. nitpick http://rfc.net/rfc2119.txt for the difference between MUST and SHOULD /nitpick Please don't lecture me on the proper use of English. I used should and I meant should. Even using the restrictive definitions from rfc2119 I feel that should is the proper word. Translators may have a valid reason for not subscribing to debian-www. I personally would see it rather as a MUST at least for the translation coordinators. Personally, I don't see the point of stating something must be done when there is no enforcement, but I could go along with it in the case of translation coordinators. I have added the following sentence to english/devel/website/index.wml: Translation coordinators strongMUST/strong subscribe. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New version of /intl/l10n/ pages
On Thu, Nov 29, 2001 at 10:45:23AM +0100, Denis Barbier wrote: I have rewritten the whole machinery, but moving to the new one will of course break wml build, and some care must be taken. Here is my proposition for a smooth upgrade, I'll do it tonight (i.e. in ~ 12 hours) if nobody objects: a) Patch webwml/*/international/Makefile to remove l10n from the list of sub-directories to prevent any wml build under /intl/l10n/ b) Commit new version of webwml/english/international/l10n/* files c) Remove old stuff d) Sync translations (this has to be done because the database file has slightly changed) e) In few days, allow build of webwml/*/international/l10n/ again What should be done about translations that don't get updated at step d? Otherwise, no objections here. After that, daily updates of these webpages will be performed since their generation becomes really fast. This is very much appreciated. Thanks Denis. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: APT sources idea
On Tue, Nov 27, 2001 at 05:32:28PM +0100, Tollef Fog Heen wrote: * James A. Treacy | The problem with this is the usual problem in figuring out where a site | is actually located. Additionally, geographic location often has little | relation to how good a connection that a person has to a site. Hmm, is that a problem? from mirror/Mirrors.masterlist: Country: US United States Should be pretty easy to generate apt sources lines from this, Duh. Of course. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#121635: reference to mailing list isn't localised
On Wed, Nov 28, 2001 at 11:55:21PM +0100, Robert Millan wrote: Package: www.debian.org Severity: wishlist In the following html: http://www.debian.org/intro/about where it says I can't set it up all by myself. How do I get support for Debian? I suggest that localised versions of that document mention the localised version (if existant) of the debian-user mailing list. Good idea. In fact this is one of the reasons the translation guidelines suggest that translators add such language specific information when translating. The webmasters do not have direct control over the translations (we can, of course, remove a translation but that is something we don't like to do). It must be so, since we don't speak most of the languages the web site is translated to. As such, we can't force the translations to add extra information. If you have problems with a translation, please communicate directly with the translators. Given the above, do you mind if I close this bug? -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: APT sources idea
On Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 11:03:04PM +0100, peter karlsson wrote: I had an idea; It would be very nice with an extension to the available mirror information where one could create suitable APT lines for copy-paste to the sources.list file. It could be accessible from a CGI script, for instance, with a simple form: When I first wrote the script which generates pages from the mirror master list no one seemed interested in it generating apt lines. How things change. I'll look into having a file of them generated. Distribution: (*) stable ( ) testing ( ) unstable Country: [ SV - Sweden ] with easy enough parameters so they could be linked to from the pages under the international directory (and releases). Danish has a page under international with mirrors in Denmark, and I have thought about doing a similar page for Swedish with mirrors in Sweden and Finland, but I think it would be better to do something that would be based on the actual mirrors list. The problem with this is the usual problem in figuring out where a site is actually located. Additionally, geographic location often has little relation to how good a connection that a person has to a site. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Portugueses translators
On Thu, Nov 22, 2001 at 10:03:01PM -0200, Gustavo Noronha Silva wrote: On Thu, 22 Nov 2001 21:32:12 -0200 Philipe Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hum, i'd like to know if there is anyone on this list that is translating pages for portuguese (from Portugal) language. So, there is any portuguese here? don't think so Philpe, we, the brazillian team, control the pt translation on Debian pages, maybe we'll have to split it on pt and pt-br some day... Are the differences between the two very large? It is much better to have one, solid, up to date translation than two bad ones - even if people are a bit unhappy about some compromises made to accommodate people from both countries. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Portugueses translators
On Fri, Nov 23, 2001 at 03:59:05PM +0100, peter karlsson wrote: Gustavo Noronha Silva: well, both countries will understand any translation, but I *really* don't like some translations people from Portugal do, I am sure they don't like some of ours too, So, as I suspected, the grammar is essentially identical but there has been a divergence in vocabulary over the years. Somewhat like UK English vs US English. French in France vs Quebec French is probably a better comparison though. If not much differs, it would be possible to do something similar to what Chinese does, they generate the different language versions from the same sources, with slices for the words that differ. In decreasing order of preference: - world peace (ok, at least a single translation, pt, for all Portuguese speakers) - a single translation that uses slices where a compromise just won't work. pt_br and pt_pt would be generated from a single source - two translations One problem with a split of any kind is which version would get displayed for users who request pt? -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#120848: www.debian.org: http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/index.en-us.html missing
On Fri, Nov 23, 2001 at 08:35:29PM -0500, John Dalbec wrote: Package: www.debian.org Version: 20011124 Severity: normal Mozilla defaults to en-us as the only language for content negotiation. In the absence of this page, I was getting the Indonesian version instead! I've added 'en' to my language settings as a workaround. I consider this a bug against everyone who distributes browsers that lead users to make the wrong decision about what language preference to send. You may find the following link useful to understand why I feel that way: http://www.debian.org/intro/cn. Even better is to read the http spec. :) Although it shouldn't need to be done, the debian web site has resorted to creating links from en-us and en-gb to the en version of pages. It appears that the weekly news section does not create such links. This will be looked into. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: en-au + www.au.debian.org - Norwegian
On Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 06:56:34PM +1100, Horms wrote: It would seem that for certain pages on www.au.debain.org, for instance http://www.au.debian.org/distrib/vendors having your browser set as en-au as your only language results in pages in Norwegian. I suspect that en-au is not known by au.debian.org and for some reason it's default is debian. I would suspect that people with a predisposition to use au.debian.org would be likely to use en-au. Perhaps English would be a better default language for this site, give that the official and dominant language of Australia is English.. For an explanation of what is going on see http://www.debian.org/intro/cn.en.html I have resolved this problem by choosing adding the language en to my browser's language list - the problem I describe also occurs with en-us, though I haven't tested other en-* variants. Using 'en' is the right thing to do. Only a few languages have a need to use country variants. For the rest it just causes problems. The http spec is very clear on this issue and warns browser authors to not lead users astray. Ironically this problem does not occur on www.debian.org, which is hosted outside of Australia. www.debian.org should have the same problem with en-au, but not if you use en-us or en-gb. Unfortunately, this has become enough of a problem that we created sylinks for those two common country variants as it was easier than trying to educate the masses. Notifying the web mirrors of this change is on my TODO list. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#120004: devel/website/using_cvs does not list everything needed to edit a language
On Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 02:41:54PM -0600, Adam Heath wrote: Package: www.debian.org Tags: patch Modified version of patch applied so closing the bug. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#119993: devel/website/using_cvs is not clear on developer access
On Sat, Nov 17, 2001 at 12:58:37PM -0600, Adam Heath wrote: Package: www.debian.org http://www.debian.org/devel/website/using_cvs#cvsfordevelopers This part of the page is only useful for developers in the webwml group. I believe the section title should be changed to reflect that. Section title now reads: CVS Write Access for Debian Developers Closing the bug. -- James (Jay) Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
