Re: Debian Constitution: supercede or supersede?
On Mon, Nov 10 2008, Jens Seidel wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 01:51:47PM +, MJ Ray wrote: Jens Seidel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wonder about the usage of supercede. Is it OK to replace it by (or with :-?) supersede? Amazingly, LEO is actually correct for once. Yes, strictly speaking AIUI, that should be supersede. Ah, so my assumption was true :-) Good to know. Manoj will have to rule whether it requires a vote to fix a typo. Since a similar fix by mondo occurred already in r1.15 of devel/constitution.wml (there happened even more typo and formatting fixes in the past) and since only the header of the file is affected I see no problem. Another minor issue: http://www.debian.org/devel/constitution.1.2.en.htmlcontains: Version 1.1 Version 1.0 but version 1.3 current version, 1.4 (inconsistent capitalisation). Manoj? Minor typo fixes do not need a vote (spelling corrections, case corrections, etc), as long as the meaning is not changed. Some times punctuation makes a difference (placing a comma can change the meaning), but that certainly does not seem to be the case here. Please go ahead, and thanks for the cleanup work. manoj -- Computers will not be perfected until they can compute how much more than the estimate the job will cost. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please update the translation of the Debian Social contract
On Sun, Oct 26 2008, Frans Pop wrote: the Debian website contained two nearly identical copies of the Debian Social contract. That's why http://www.debian.org/social_contract.1.1 got removed and the current version can be found in http://www.debian.org/social_contract. Why wasn't this done in a way that would have kept existing translations of version 1.1 valid? I.e: - first copy 1.1 unchanged for _all_ languages to new location and update translation comments (or keep old English version for new document) The 1.1 and the unversioned number had identical content, but the latter had some improved HTML tagging (/p elements added, for one). So copying 1,1 in english to the unversioned number would have been the wrong thing to do. - then make wanted changes in new document - finally remove the 1.0 and 1.1 documents Err, the 1.0 version should not be removed. IMO that would have made things much more transparent and a lot less worlk for translators. You are now forcing me to jump through hoops and do extensive checks to see that I've not missed anything to resurrect the Dutch translation while the actual changes are minor. There should not have been _any_ actual content changes; if there are, then some translation was buggy. manoj -- The trouble with the average family budget is that at the end of the money there's too much month left. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Please update the translation of the Debian Social contract
On Sun, Oct 26 2008, Frans Pop wrote: On Sunday 26 October 2008, Frans Pop wrote: the Debian website contained two nearly identical copies of the Debian Social contract. That's why http://www.debian.org/social_contract.1.1 got removed and the current version can be found in http://www.debian.org/social_contract. You are now forcing me to jump through hoops and do extensive checks to see that I've not missed anything to resurrect the Dutch translation while the actual changes are minor. And it even seems to me that the provided instructions are completely broken. IIUC the correct new document should be social_contract.wml and that should have revision 1.6. I am not sure why you think that. However, if I look at http://cvs.debian.org/webwml/english/, I see social_contract.1.0.wml still there with revision 1.6, while social_contract.wml has revision *1.23* and does not seem to have been touched in ages. This is as it should be. social_contract.wml was last modified 11 months ago. social_contract.1.0 should really be at revision 1.4, but I screwed up. There are no changes between 1.4 and 1.6. This really sucks. I am mystified by all this drama. Why does it suck? manoj -- Wish and hope succeed in discerning signs of paranormality where reason and careful scientific procedure fail.- James E. Alcock, The Skeptical Inquirer, Vol. 12 Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: updated Hebrew translation for Debian Social Contract.
On Fri, Oct 24 2008, Jens Seidel wrote: Manoj, does it make sense to have two nearly identical copies of Social Contract v1.1 available? (They differ only minor in HTML tags.) There should only be one v1.1 version around; yes. Is missing symbolic link support in CVS the reason? No. Usually, when a new version of a foundation document is created, we copy NAME.wml to NAME.X.Y.wml, and NAME.wml is the new version. That being the case, social_contract.1.1.wml should not exist. Maybe it would be possible to rewrite social_contract.html to contain only links to version 1.0 and 1.1? So, there is nothing else that refers to social_contract.1.1, and the file social_contract.wml only refers to ocial_contract.1.0, as does the index, so I have just removed the extra file. manoj -- There's one fool at least in every married couple. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: DPL vote update 1.0
On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 12:11:15 +0100, Luk Claes [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Neil McGovern wrote: Hi all, Hi Neil Can someone apply the attached patch to the webwml source please? There may be a couple of others to follow until Manoj returns :) Added. Many thanks to both of you. manoj -- COBOL is for morons. E.W. Dijkstra Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Different links to voting wiki
On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:20:16 +0100, Jadima Laika [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Did Mr. Schulze took part on the development of any debian constitution? He certainly participated in the discussion of the new voting method when we were deciding on how to improve the constitutional method. There is also a variation of his method (based on a set of papers he wrote) that I was thinking about using for the cases where more than one winner was desired. manoj -- Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics, because the stakes are so low. -- Wallace Sayre Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian WWW CVS commit by srivasta: webwml/english/devel constitution.wml constitu ...
Hi, On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:50:09 +0100, Jens Seidel [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Please note that you have to adapt older constitutions as well as they refer to the current constitution as version 1.3. Thanks for pointing that out. I had momentarily forgotten that I had set up both forward and backward links. Fixed now, I think. manoj -- I sold my memoirs of my love life to Parker Brothers -- they're going to make a game out of it. -- Woody Allen Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: broken link on http://www.debian.org/social_contract
On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 23:54:35 -0200, Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw) [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On 31-10-2007 09:05, Thiemo Nagel wrote: Hello, just to let you know: The link Open Source Definition, pointing to http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition_plain.html is outdated. It seems to me that the correct URL would be: http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd Kind regards, Ok, this information is correct, but I'm not sure if anyone can change the Social Contract, I'm cc:ing Manoj, and attached is the proposed patch by smart_change.pl. I think this change is Ok. It is not as if we are changing the social contract; this is a bug fix. And, if memory serves me correctly, the document we voted on was plain text; the HTML version was created by me after the fact; and the URL's were added while doing so. I didn't touch the old versions of Social Contract, if is is OK, I can apply smart_change on them too. Please do. And thanks for keeping the web site sane :-) manoj -- Just because he's dead is no reason to lay off work. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Doubts and Ideas
On Sat, 2 Jun 2007 10:31:41 -0700, Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Sat, 02 Jun 2007, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 16:57:25 -0700, Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: 2 doesn't provide the protection of a copyleft license, but it would enable us to use the work in combination with any other license, so would be ok. And kinda draconian. Why are we being so hell bent on restricting the free license choices for our contributors? As long as the licenses are free, why dowe feel the need to be in control so much? It's not that we need to be in control, but that actually changing the license is such a pain that we really only want to do it once. The more restrictive the license we pick, the more likely it is we'll have to revisit this. Since contributors can't always be contacted, the more time passes, the more difficult (or impossible) it will become. If it is at all possible, I want to solve it once and not have to revisit it again. If the license is free, we need not be changing it at all, either now nor in the future. Indeed, if the initial license is free, there should be no reason for Debian to ever change the licensing away from the free license, so it being Hard to do is irrelevant. The web site is a collection of aggregated works; so I don't see the need to even have the same free license at all. manoj -- Whom are you? said he, for he had been to night school. George Ade Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Doubts and Ideas
On Sun, 3 Jun 2007 14:12:22 -0700, Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Sun, 03 Jun 2007, Manoj Srivastava wrote: If the license is free, we need not be changing it at all, either now nor in the future. We'd have to revisit it in cases where works in the website which we would like to combine are under different, conflicting free licenses. The website is an aggregation of works. As long as you are just publishing such an aggregation, you donot need to combine licences. Indeed, if the initial license is free, there should be nxo reason for Debian to ever change the licensing away from the free license, so it being Hard to do is irrelevant. It wouldn't be necessary to change away, but it could become necessary to add additional licenses. The more liberal the licences granted, the less of a problem this would be. Umm, no. I don't want, for instance, the BSD license to be attached to my works, on a matter of principle, even though it is a free license. I don't see why Dewbian wants to force licenses on me in order to get my contribution. The web site is a collection of aggregated works; so I don't see the need to even have the same free license at all. The works are often combined, and many parts of the website have multiple different contributors. We have to be able to distribute the resulting works, so whatever licensing scheme we come up with has to be compatible. Why do licenses of merely aggregated works have to be compatible? Heck, we distribute CD's of works from different people, and the licenses are not all compatible. Why is the web site so special? As far as I know, there never has been, and nothing is being contemplated, which distributes the website apart from mirroing it. Even then, you can just state the website is an aggregation of works. I don't think you have made your case that this is note merely a desire for control over works by other people. manoj -- A penny saved kills your career in government. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Doubts and Ideas
On Fri, 1 Jun 2007 16:57:25 -0700, Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Fri, 01 Jun 2007, Manoj Srivastava wrote: While my preference is the GPL V2; I would be willing to accept any DFSG free license, if asked. But signing away my rights mean that, in theory, Debian can decide to change the license to something unacceptable (look at documentation the FSF changed from GPL to GFDL, and none of the authors had _any_ say in that). Not assigning copyright helps keep Debian honest. Sure; the second option doesn't involve copyright assignment, but gives Debian a licence to the work such that it can pick any DFSG Free license subject to approval via GR (or whatever) in the future, in case we need to relicense the webpages. As I said, I am not willing to accept what a future GR does to the freedom of my contributions. I have been running GR's for a while, and I know how silly some of the winners are. The doc relicensing to the GFDL by the FSF comes to mind here. Of course, MIT/Expat is close enough to such a license that it probably doesn't matter. How about the following instead, then: 1) Copyright assignment to SPI using http://ftp.xemacs.org/old-beta/FSF/assign.changes or similar, modified to do the assignment to SPI under the direction of Debian. -or- 2) MIT/Expat license by each contributor. 2 doesn't provide the protection of a copyleft license, but it would enable us to use the work in combination with any other license, so would be ok. And kinda draconian. Why are we being so hell bent on restricting the free license choices for our contributors? As long as the licenses are free, why dowe feel the need to be in control so much? Faced with just these choices, I am beginning to feel the urge to resist anything but GPL v3 for my contributions :) manoj -- Half of being smart is knowing what you're dumb at. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Doubts and Ideas
On Thu, 31 May 2007 23:41:27 +0200, Josip Rodin [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Thu, May 31, 2007 at 11:56:36AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: I am willing to relicense my contributions under the GPL v2; but I am not willing to assign my copyright away. I specifically do not trust the SPI enough to allow them to relicense my work in the future. And you were committing all this time to the web site which says it's copyright SPI? Unknowingly? The website was obviously wrong. There are probably lots of errors on our web pages, and only some of them I have mtivation to find and correct. You can't get copyright to contributions by assertion. When I got CVS commit rights, no one asked me to assign copyrights. And I commit to a CVS repo, not the web site, I rarely look at the web site, anyway. The fact that the web site generation tools grab my copyrighted content and add incorrect copyright statements arund is indeed a bug, which should be fixed, now that you noticed it. manoj -- I want more life, fucker! Roy Batty, in Ridley Scott's Blade Runner Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Doubts and Ideas
On Thu, 31 May 2007 19:55:26 -0700, Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I specifically do not trust the SPI enough to allow them to relicense my work in the future. This sort of relicensing should be done at the direction of Debian; we could even write up the license assignment so this was required. Plus, the worst that could happen is the work would become closer to PD; it wouldn't be capable of going backwards in freedom granted. Would such a license be acceptable to you? While my preference is the GPL V2; I would be willing to accept any DFSG free license, if asked. But signing away my rights mean that, in theory, Debian can decide to change the license to something unacceptable (look at documentation the FSF changed from GPL to GFDL, and none of the authors had _any_ say in that). Not assigning copyright helps keep Debian honest. manoj -- I went to the museum where they had all the heads and arms from the statues that are in all the other museums. -- Steven Wright Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Doubts and Ideas
On Wed, 30 May 2007 18:23:44 -0700, Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Wed, 30 May 2007, Josip Rodin wrote: It's unlikely that our web pages have much content for which there isn't prior art, or simply common knowledge. Prior art isn't an issue, since it's not patented. In any event, to resolve this issue completely all that we need is 1) a GPG signed email from every contributor saying that they either assign copyright of their contributions to SPI or give SPI a non-exclusive royalte-free license to do with the copyright work as they see fit 2) a directive from the DPL to SPI to license the work under GPL (or MIT/Expat or whatever -www decides.) I am willing to relicense my contributions under the GPL v2; but I am not willing to assign my copyright away. I specifically do not trust the SPI enough to allow them to relicense my work in the future. If SPI wants to discuss work-for-hire agreements, they can mail me off list. manoj -- Microbiology Lab: Staph Only! Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Doubts and Ideas
On Thu, 31 May 2007 17:06:08 -0300, Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw) [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Would you allow the Debian WWW Team (or a DPL delegate for that matter) to relicense your work under a DFSG compatible license? Or, would you dual-license it GPLv2 and MIT/Expat? That would make our work easier. I personally would not mind a dual licensing, but I would prefer the GPL. One of the set of pages I have been meaning to add to the vote pages is an HOWTO about using the Debian vote softwareto run other votes; and it would help if I could just use the docs from devotee -- which is GPL'd; and has incorporated other material also distributed under the GPL. In general, allowing people to add docs and other material from software should be encouraged, as long as the software is DFSG free. I belong to the school of thought that divides computer related material into software/hardware/wetware, so as ar as I am concerned, the wml source for the web site is software, just like any other struff I package. Anything DFSG free should be acceptable. manoj -- While most peoples' opinions change, the conviction of their correctness never does. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Website Designs
On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 14:29:47 +0200, Runa Agate Sandvik [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Thu, Apr 26, 2007 at 12:10:35AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Merely lists which web pages are in scope -- but nothing of the audience. It also hand waves at the usual goodies: unified, accessible, no javascript or flash, etc. There is nothing concrete, or anything of any real substance here, when it comes to real goals or a target audience. You're free to edit the wiki page yourself if you want to. I would say that an accessible website is a concrete goal. What goals do you see for the website? I have no idea what goals people have in mid, which is why I asked. That makes me a poor candidate to edit the page and define the currently non-existing goals. Not only are there no clear definitions of goal, what are the use cases the new design is supposed to meet that the current one does not? Who are the stake holders? If accessibility is a goal, how are you certain we are not meeting it? The web site has no javascript I can discern, it is localized in my language, it uses no flash, it is accessible y braille terminals. Have we not already met the goals, then? If there are parts of the goals that are not met, can you point me to concrete shortcomings? And why can't just those shortcomings be answered, rather than a redesign from the ground up? Frankly, I do not think accesssibility is a goal. Lack of it is a bug, and bugs should be fixed. It is no more of a goal than lack of bugs is a goal for a program -- a de3sirable feature, a critical characteristic, but not a goal. Does anyone have _any_ idea what the goals of the redesign are? And who is the target audience? Who is the target audience now? :) I don't think anyone has a handle on this. And not defining the target audience, and dismissing any effort to do so with hand waving about the audience is who the audience is is precisely the concern I raised about the planning going on into the effort. New users? Current users? Experts? Novices? Developers? Derivative distributions? Marketing people? Press? The website should be accessible for both new and old users. Does it need to be made more clear? Heck, yes. Since the needs of every element of the types of target audiences I mentioned above are very different indeed. Worse, this raises concerns that the whole effort is doomed to failure -- which is what happens when the designer does not think that profiling the audience is a worthwhile endeavor. If you have no idea who you are designing for, whether it be programs, or websites, the outcome is bound to be muddled. I have seen no use cases for the new sites that are suppose to be met by the new design that are not currently met (I have heard various people make value judgements about how ugly the pages are). Is a subjective ugliness the only reason for this effort? No function is being considered at all? manoj -- It is impossible for an optimist to be pleasantly surprised. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Website Designs
On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:03:20 +0200, Gerfried Fuchs [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: * Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-04-26 08:14]: If accessibility is a goal, how are you certain we are not meeting it? The web site has no javascript I can discern, it is localized in my language, it uses no flash, it is accessible y braille terminals. Have we not already met the goals, then? I'm sure you have heard it somewhere before already, but: There's always room for improvement. If you reach your goal you are dead. If there are parts of the goals that are not met, can you point me to concrete shortcomings? And why can't just those shortcomings be answered, rather than a redesign from the ground up? If there wouldn't be any shortcomings then how would you explain the regular mails about people getting lost in the links? About not finding what they are looking for? Like, Getting Debian sounds poor to me, and when you actually follow that page you get to a page where you can't get Debian but rather have a longish explenation about the different approaches, and when you decided you just want to download the damn thing and click you are again at the next hop with longish explenations about netinst, jigdo and stuff. Thanks. This is indeed a concrete step -- making it easier to access the ISO and jigdo images, and perhaps a _short_ explanation of the benefit of the latter. I see it more as fixing a bug, rather than something that needs a redesign of the site with mockups (the navigation can be fixed without really doing a full redesign). Does anyone have _any_ idea what the goals of the redesign are? Improvement of navigation is definitely one that I hope to see in it. And with some design tricks this can be quite easily and especially effective be enhanced. Of course, it might not be easily enhanced for every accessibility needing person, but that doesn't mean we can't do things for a lot (as long as we don't make it worse for the others). I agree with fixing issues with site navigation. I would like to help in that. this raises concerns that the whole effort is doomed to failure -- Right, everything can fail. And quite a lot things do. And did in history. That doesn't mean that _trying_ to put some effort in is a failure, rather the contrary. Like history showed. You elided the bit about where not knowing the target audience is why I thought it would fail. One of the initial ideas thrown about was to optimize the site for the lambda user. While not a goal I agree with, at least there the target audience was better defined manoj -- It is more rational to sacrifice one life than six. Spock, The Galileo Seven, stardate 2822.3 Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Website Designs
On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:51:26 +0200, Gerfried Fuchs [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: * Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-04-26 00:10]: So, since my telepathy powers are obviously on the blink, can you tell me what the goals of the rewrite (apart from the 3 foot buzzwords of accessibility, browser independence, restrict javascript) are? Ah, the usual snappy Manoj as we like him ... Hey, I started out politely enough. I did get a little snappish when I felt I was being given a run around. What are we trying to achieve (well, apart from look prettier, and perhaps reduce information presented [not sure about the last one ). Can I be honest? That would be quite a lot achieved, because that didn't happen over the last years at all and was regularly complained about, if you have followed the list not only recently. I care far more about function than about someones idea of what is pretty. I find the Debian site pleasantly uncluttered, and, for the most part, highly functional (though improving navigation would be a good thing. Frankly, function is not something I have seen discussed -- just bling. So it's a wiki - feel free to add your sentimentals if you think they belong there. sentimentals? I asked the people involved in this redesign what use cases they are trying to improve, who the target audience is, and what the goals are of this effort. When one embarks on such an effort, and someone asks what the goals are, telling the person seeking information that they can make up their own goals and add it to the wiki is not really an optimal response. And, probably, most people won't like it if I went ahead and defined the goals of the redesign, anyway. manoj -- The lion and the calf shall lie down together but the calf won't get much sleep. Woody Allen Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Website Designs
On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 17:25:40 +0200, Gerfried Fuchs [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: * Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-04-21 18:35]: For example, I really dislike that when I hit the mailing list archive link, instead of being shown the archives based on list/year/month directly, I am asked whether I want a developer mailing list or a user list. The additional level of access is irritating. You forget that it was like that before, and it was quite irritating with respect to the sheer amount of lists and archives on the page. It just didn't scale and wasn't useable. The answer, I felt, was to to have a table of contents at the top of the page, which liked further down the page to the monthly archives. A simple list of mailing lists, perhaps subdivided into topics, rather than adding yet another page load, would be less irritating for me. However, this is a minor issue, I am not vastly irritated by the current solution. manoj -- No house is childproofed unless the little darlings are in straitjackets. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Website Designs
On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:00:53 +0200, Sam Hocevar [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: As far as I am concerned, looking prettier is exactly what I'd like to be achieved, nothing more. Please consider the layout change page a way to achieve a unified, more appealing website. I do not believe there is a priority conflict, since changing the layout is almost orthogonal to reorganising the website. They can be separate projects. In fact, the former hardly qualifies as a rewrite, since changing the layout could be done by only changing the CSS. Ah. If this is just about adding bling, and not about things like removing security advisories from the top page to help lambda users, then my interest in this efforts fade. Please ignore the noise, then. I would be interested in a functional improvement to the website, but am indifferent to subjective aesthetics. manoj -- A certain amount of opposition is a help, not a hindrance. Kites rise against the wind, not with it. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Website Designs
Hi, On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:33:49 +0200, Runa Agate Sandvik [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 09:11:37PM +0100, James Herrington wrote: I've come up with a quick mockup design for the debian homepage, what does everyone think? I have created a wiki page[1] where everyone can add their proposals :) Where can I see a statement of goals for the reorganization? Who is supposed to be the target audience of the site? (I am not sure we can get meaningful goals until we have an idea of who the stakeholders are). Starting to come up with mockups before we have goals/audience/requirements in place seems ... wrong, somehow. manoj -- The world wants to be deceived. Sebastian Brant Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Website Designs
On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 23:02:22 +0200, Runa Agate Sandvik [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Wed, Apr 25, 2007 at 11:35:10AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote: Starting to come up with mockups before we have goals/audience/requirements in place seems ... wrong, somehow. I had a chat with Sam Hocevar right after I created LayoutProposal and a few minutes later we had http://wiki.debian.org/WebsiteLayout as well :) I agree that we need to have the requirements in place before woking on anything, but I'm quite sure on what the goals are and who the audience is ;) I read that page, and I am afraid it is not at all clear to me. Can you point to me where those things are spelled out? Let me see if I can walk this through: Step 1: identify needs Merely lists which web pages are in scope -- but nothing of the audience. It also hand waves at the usual goodies: unified, accessible, no javascript or flash, etc. There is nothing concrete, or anything of any real substance here, when it comes to real goals or a target audience. Step 2: analyse the current backends Again, nothing about who the target is. Step 3: analyse the current layouts No idea who the readership is gonna be. Step 4: create mockups for all sites we wish to change Right. So, since my telepathy powers are obviously on the blink, can you tell me what the goals of the rewrite (apart from the 3 foot buzzwords of accessibility, browser independence, restrict javascript) are? What are we trying to achieve (well, apart from look prettier, and perhaps reduce information presented [not sure about the last one]). Frankly, function is not something I have seen discussed -- just bling. And who is the target audience? New users? Current users? Experts? Novices? Developers? Derivative distributions? Marketing people? Press? manoj -- Many people are unenthusiastic about your work. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Improvements of the website
On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 18:10:42 +0200, Grégoire Duchêne [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: 2007/4/22, Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED]: people who do not care about security, and refuse to be educated, ought to be gently steered to Windows? I don't believe that this type of point of view will help us, because users don't want to be educated because they don't see why they should be educated. Well, I agree that security advisories should be kept in the homepage, but I don't think that we should put them in the middle of the page, because if we do that, they will be too many informations in the homepage, and users won't read them at all. So we should remove things which are less important. Like random news items that are not of critical importance anyway. manoj -- Landru! Guide us! A Beta 3-oid, The Return of the Archons, stardate 3157.4 Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Improvements of the website
On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 11:18:30 +0200, Grégoire Duchêne [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Well, this point of view explains why people don't use Debian, and use Ubuntu. You won't educate users, and you cannot force them to read security advisories. We have to keep security advisories in the homepage (as I did it in my drafts), but IMO we also need to understand that lambda-users don't care about it, this is why powerul tools like APT exist (and we cannot change their mind, sorry). We should not be optimizing our web pages for only lambda users. manoj -- Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. Fields Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Improvements of the website
On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 11:18:30 +0200, Grégoire Duchêne [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Well, this point of view explains why people don't use Debian, and use Ubuntu. No single distribution is suited for every single user, and we should not try to please everyone, since that effort is doomed to failure. If some users find Ubuntu more to their taste, and find themselves more productive, we should rejoice. Ubuntu is free software. We are not enemies. We are not in competition. Choice, and diversity, is a strength of free software, and we should not be trying to to reduce that. manoj -- H. L. Mencken suffers from the hallucination that he is H. L. Mencken -- there is no cure for a disease of that magnitude. -- Maxwell Bodenheim Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Improvements of the website
On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:29:57 +0200, Grégoire Duchêne [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: 2007/4/23, Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Ubuntu is free software. We are not enemies. We are not incompetition. Choice, and diversity, is a strength of free software, andwe should not be trying to to reduce that. Many distribution are Debian-based because this distribution is very powerful. I am not telling that we need to please everyone, but we should encourage everyone to use Debian, because Debian is not only the distribution-which-other-are-based-on. That does not seem to follow logically. As long as the Distribution is sound technically, these other distributions exist to cater to niche user populations. Why should we encourage people who are meant to be served by our derived distributions to use Debian, rather than the distributions specifically created to cater to them? Do you want our derived distributions to fail? How the Debian web site looks in no way affects the distributions other people are basing their efforts on. You should remember we have current users of our own. We should be catering to our user base, rather than conspiring to steal users from our derived distributions :) :). manoj -- Beat your son every day; you may not know why, but he will. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Improvements of the website
On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:54:49 +0200, Grégoire Duchêne [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I believe that news about the Project are more important than security advisories because the end-user just don't care about the DSA-1278man-db vulnerability. He just wants to know the lastest news about the project, what is the project and how can he download it. But the user _should_ care about security vulnerabilities -- and if they do not, they should be educated; since otherwise this very lack of awareness of security issue would come back and bite them on a sensitive area of their anatomy. So security issues should continue to be up front and center -- and people who do not care about security, and refuse to be educated, ought to be gently steered to Windows? manoj -- I take Him shopping with me. I say, 'OK, Jesus, help me find a bargain' --Tammy Faye Bakker Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Website Designs
On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 12:25:06 +0100, James Herrington [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I agree, i think the structure of navigation definitely needs to be improved however i don't think i'm the person to do it! It's not that i wouldnt like to but more i don't know the existing website structure well enough. There is another thread on this list that is currently discussing navigation/ how users travel through the site however i think until a decision has been made to the new navigation there is very little i can do further with the designs. I'd really like to carry on with the website help once the navigation is decided so if and when this happens feel free to contact me! For example, I really dislike that when I hit the mailing list archive link, instead of being shown the archives based on list/year/month directly, I am asked whether I want a developer mailing list or a user list. The additional level of access is irritating. manoj -- ... the HIGHWAY is made out of LIME JELLO and my HONDA is a barbequeued OYSTER! Yum! Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Improvements of the website
Hi, On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:25:49 +0200, Grégoire Duchêne [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: 1/ There is too many informations on the homepage : when a visitor comes and wants to get Debian, he needs to see clearly where he can get the lastest version of Debian. Thus, I believe that the Getting starterd can be removed, and replaced by a simple box Get Debian which leads to another page with a simple list of choices. When I go to debian, it is almost never to get a new version of Debian. I think you should not optimize the website for only one kind of user, the new to debian user. I go to the website to look at mail archives, to see the vote sub pages, to see the developers corner, and yes, sometimes to see where the latest netinst iso can be found. Making the website more usable for the repeaet customers is also desirable. 2/ The news are not easily reachable on the website : there is only a little list of events and news with a title and a date. This is NOT enough. We need to display the news in the top of the homepage, with a good summary. I almost never go to the web site o see news. 3/ Althought security advisories are important, we can afford to put them on a separate page (with of course a link on the left menu). Why are security advisories less important than random news? manoj -- All my life I wanted to be someone; I guess I should have been more specific. Jane Wagner Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Vote page ISO 8859-1 but contains UTF-8?
Hi, On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 16:30:35 +0100, Jens Seidel [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: The webpage is encoded in latin1 but this single file was encoded in UTF-8. Sorry about that. I just forgot that the page is not supposed to be in utf-8. Is it going to be very hard to recode the vote pages into utf-8? I confess I am ignorant of the long term policy regarding utf-8 for our web site. manoj -- Bye Bye PDP 10 Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/~srivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Lenght of vote bar in http://www.debian.org/vote/
Hi folks, As time and GR's pass, the length of the navigation bar for the vote pages keeps increasing. Considering that the list of votes is getting long, and that the most recent votes/elections are now at the bottom of the page, perhaps it is time to consider a refactoring of the vote bar? I was thinking of adding a history page, which has the historical votes, in the current chronological order; and add that new historical page to the nav bar, and then restrict the votes shown in the navigation bar to, say, the last 3 years or so. So, in http://www.debian.org/vote/2007/vote_001, all the votes for 2004 and prior shall be relegated to the History page. What do you think? manoj -- Why does a hearse horse snicker, hauling a lawyer away? Carl Sandburg Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Policy Translation
On 10 Apr 2006, Jens Seidel wrote: Hi Felipe, I added Manoj Srivastava to CC: because he has write access to the debian-policy CVS module (http://cvs.debian.org/debian-policy/?root=debian-policy). Since it is stored outside DDP (debian-doc module) I doubt that people from the DDP have write access to it. The CVS repository is obsolete, and no longer reflects the current policy. Policy is not maintined out of an arch repository on arch.debian.org. On Sun, Apr 09, 2006 at 07:26:03PM -0300, Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw) wrote: On 03/25/2006 04:06 AM, Junichi Uekawa wrote: That's great! So, I would like to bring back my original question, which should be the Right Way (tm) to send the translation to be added to the official infrastructure? Have you already extended the build system (Makefile, ...) to support your translation or is it just a set of translated file? You will probably also need write access so the simplest solution seems to grant you (or better all DDP people) write access to language specific subdirectories. This should be no problem with CVS. Changes to the parent directory are handled by ... (contacting Manoj, reporting bugs)??? Since we no longer use CVS, perhps the easiest way is for people to set up their own arch branches, and the policy team can pull their changes in. No one needs to be given permission for anything, one of the virtues of distributed SCMs manoj -- Decaffeinated coffee? Just Say No. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#238245: Proposed plan (and license) for the webpage relicensing
On 19 Apr 2006, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña uttered the following: In summary: The web pages license content should be changed from the OPL (non DFSG-free) to some other license (DFSG-free). As it is, the current content is not GPL compatible (so it cannot be reused, for example, in documentation produced by the DDP project). This is also troublesome since we say i the social contract: When we write new components of the Debian system, we will license them in a manner consistent with the Debian Free Software Guidelines. a) a proper license should be decided for the website. I suggest using a BSD-style license. The attached license is such a license. It is based on the FreeBSD documentation license [3] and explicitely mentions translations. In our case (the website) the 'source code' is the wml, but I leave references to other sources (SGML, XML) that might apply to other documentation that the website might hold. I would be willing to license my contributions under the GPL. I do not see why translations are any different than another wml file added to the combined work, so I don't see why the GPL is not a perfectly good license for the wml code. b) old contributors to the web site (i.e. all that have had CVS access to the WWW CVS are for the past 10 years) should be contacted and ask to agree to this license change. As long as the licenses used are compatible, we may not need a common license. Standard footers can be provided for inclusion for each page. c) a note should be added to the Debian site (as a News item?) describing the license change (and the reasons for the change) and giving a 6 month period for comments. e are following our social contract. There need be no comments period for six months, we should just get on with it. d) new contributors during that period should be asked to agree to the license change and to transfer (c) to SPI (GPG/PGP signed e-mail would be a requisite for contributing, a paper trail would be even best) What reason should people assign copyright if the license is free? I have no intention of doing so, for any past or future contributions. e) from here on access to the CVS of the website should be given after clearly stating (and getting and agreement) that any and all contributions to the CVS, unless specified otherwise with clear (c) statements in the code, will be (c) SPI and will be considered work under contract No. While I am willing to change my license to the GPL, if you want work under contract, my contract rate is US $250/hour. And I have a boilerplate contract agreement you must sign, in order to use my work. Does this sound like a reasonable plan? Who can help digging out a list of contributors and preparing an explanatory e-mail and license change notice for the website? The copyright assignment does not sound sane, no. manoj -- Don't feed the bats tonight. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Patch debian-www with css
On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 21:32:32 +0100, Denis Barbier [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I build all English pages after applying Jutta's patch, available at http://people.debian.org/~barbier/juttaw/ Please test these pages, I am willing to commit this patch soon. I was wondering how the vote pages would show up (since they contain custom css), but unfortunately they do not seem to have been rendered. Not Found The requested URL /~barbier/juttaw/vote/ was not found on this server. Do the vote pages turn out OK? Including the stats for previous votes? manoj -- Life is like a buffet; it's not good but there's plenty of it. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Social Contract reversion
On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 09:02:07 -0800, Matt Kraai [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Wed, Nov 24, 2004 at 09:29:10PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: It's been almost five months since the project decided to revert the social contract back to the original version. Is that going to actually happen at some point? ] $ lynx -dump http://www.debian.org/social_contract | grep Debian.will ] 1. Debian will remain 100% free Done. Sorry for the delay. Umm. So, where is the new version of the social contract, the one what we'll revert to when Sarge is released? All I see is there is the old social_contract.1.0.wml, and the social contract.wml is a copy of that. Where did the version 1.1 of the contract go to? manoj -- Genius is ten percent inspiration and fifty percent capital gains. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Social Contract reversion
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 00:28:52 -0800, Matt Kraai [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Tue, Nov 30, 2004 at 08:59:49AM +0100, Pierre Machard wrote: aj or Matt, do you know if there are other location where the social contract is out of date ? I don't know of any other out-of-date copies, but I didn't know that the web site copy was out-of-date until I read AJ's e-mail. The web site referred to the new version, whereas it should have referred to the older one still. We should probably also keep the new version around as well, the one that has been ratified by the project on April 26, 2004. As it stands, we have lost the version from April 26, 2004, and we only have the old one from July 5, 1997. manoj -- Is knowledge knowable? If not, how do we know that? Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Bug#250211: www.debian.org: Broken voting periods
Hi, On Fri, 21 May 2004 11:17:45 +0100, Andrew Ferrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Package: www.debian.org Severity: normal re: http://www.debian.org/vote/2004/vote_004 The second half of the discussion period and the voting period all appear only as '2004'. Looking at the HTML source, the dates themselves are commented out. I think this is incorrect. Why do you think this is incorrect? manoj -- I may not be able to walk, but I drive from a sitting position. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Debian WWW CVS commit by srivasta: webwml/english/devel constitution.wml constitu ...
On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 10:12:31 -0500, James A Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: On Sat, Nov 08, 2003 at 03:09:13PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: On Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 06:06:14PM -0700, Debian WWW CVS wrote: CVSROOT: /cvs/webwml Module name: webwml Changes by: srivasta 03/10/30 18:06:14 Modified files: english/devel : constitution.wml Added files: english/devel : constitution.1.1.wml Why is it necessary to have N files for N versions? Maybe it's just me, but why can't the obsoleted versions of the constitution be left in the CVS history (and other archive-like places), rather than littering the devel/ directory? Having the old versions around could be useful to see how Debian has evolved over the years. I suggest putting the old versions in a subdirectory though. I have no objections to moving superseded, but not redacted, versions of the constitution and foundation documents to a subdir (as long as the relevant links are updated). manoj -- I poured spot remover on my dog. Now he's gone. Steven Wright Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Added a blurb about the office of the project secretary
Hi, Thanks guys. I have now updated the official page. Oh, as to the black-Brown color changes, Josip promised to kill me if I inflicted that on an official page, so, in terror of the black helicopters, the oficial page is well behaved. manoj -- All Bibles are man-made. Thomas Edison Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Added a blurb about the office of the project secretary
Hi, I have added ./english/devel/secretary.wml; and modified ./intro/organization.data to point to that file. This page was hard for me to put together (I've never written a blurb about myself before, and couching the constitutional language in more readable terms without introducing ambiguities was ... not easy), and I'd appreciate any content feedback. Since I am, umm, renowned for tranpositional typos and run on sentences, I would appreciate any proof reading ;-) A preview is available at: http://people.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/secretary.xhtml Thanks manoj -- The common cormorant, or shag, Lays eggs inside a paper bag; The reason, you will see, no doubt, Is to keep the lightning out. But what these unobservant birds Have failed to notice is that herds Of bears may come with buns And steal the bags to hold the crumbs. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Bug#145470: listarchives: I found ancient list archives, dating back to 95
Package: listarchives Version: N/A; reported 2002-05-01 Severity: normal Hi, I have found ancient list archives, and dowloaded the ones we are missing to master.debian.org, ~srivasta/list-archives.tar . They take us back to july 95. The original location is: http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/historic-linux/distributions/debian/1.1/i386/debian-lists/ manoj -- System Information Debian Release: 3.0 Architecture: i386 Kernel: Linux glaurung 2.4.17 #1 Fri Dec 21 21:06:24 CST 2001 i586 Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Statistics for the project leader elections 2002 available
Josip == Josip Rodin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Josip Umm... do you want it linked or not? Yes, please. I am attaching vote_0001.wml, and I have made a typo correction here as well. manoj define-tag pagetitleDebian Project Leader Elections 2002/define-tag define-tag statusV/define-tag #use wml::debian::template title=pagetitle table tr td valign=topstrongTime Line/strong:/td td valign=top Nomination period: February 6th, 2002 to February 27th, 2002br Campaigning period: February 28th, 2002 to March 23rd, 2002br Voting period: March 24th, 2002 to 23:59:59 UTC on April 16th, 2002 /td /tr tr td valign=topstrongNominations/strong:/td td valign=top ol liBdale Garbee [email [EMAIL PROTECTED]] [a href=platforms/bdaleplatform/a] liRaphael Hertzog [email [EMAIL PROTECTED]] [a href=platforms/raphaelplatform/a] liBranden Robinson [email [EMAIL PROTECTED]] [a href=platforms/brandenplatform/a] /ol /td /tr tr td valign=topstrongDebate/strong:/td td valign=toppreliminary transcripts: a href=http://beta.hardware.no/~tfheen/debian-debate.html;HTML/a, a href=http://beta.hardware.no/~tfheen/debian-debate.txt;plain text/a br Many Thanks to Ben Collins for conducting the debate, and to Rob Levin and OPN for allowing us to conduct the debate on their network. /td /tr tr td valign=topstrongProgress Reports/strong:/td td valign=topSome a href=http://master.debian.org/~srivasta/leader2002.html;statistics/a, are gathered about ballots and acknowledgements periodically about the election process. /td /tr tr td valign=topstrongQuorum/strong:/td td valign=topWith 939 developers, Q=15.32155, making a quorum of 45.96466/td /tr tr td valign=topstrongOutcome/strong:/td td valign=top This outcome has not yet been decided. /td /tr /table -- Humor in the Court: Q: What is your relationship with the plaintiff? A: She is my daughter. Q: Was she your daughter on February 13, 1979? Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Update to the vote page
Hi folks, Attached is an update for the file: cvs.debian.org:/cvs/webwml/webwml/english/vote/2002/vote_0001.wml,v I've updated it to reflect the extension in the voting deadlines, and also added some details about the quorum. manoj define-tag pagetitleDebian Project Leader Elections 2002/define-tag define-tag statusV/define-tag #use wml::debian::template title=pagetitle table tr td valign=topstrongTime Line/strong:/td td valign=top Nomination period: February 6th, 2002 to February 27th, 2002br Campaigning period: February 28th, 2002 to March 23rd, 2002br Voting period: March 24rth, 2002 to 23:59:59 UTC on April 16th, 2002 /td /tr tr td valign=topstrongNominations/strong:/td td valign=top ol liBdale Garbee [email [EMAIL PROTECTED]] [a href=platforms/bdaleplatform/a] liRaphael Hertzog [email [EMAIL PROTECTED]] [a href=platforms/raphaelplatform/a] liBranden Robinson [email [EMAIL PROTECTED]] [a href=platforms/brandenplatform/a] /ol /td /tr tr td valign=topstrongDebate/strong:/td td valign=toppreliminary transcripts: a href=http://beta.hardware.no/~tfheen/debian-debate.html;HTML/a, a href=http://beta.hardware.no/~tfheen/debian-debate.txt;plain text/a br Many Thanks to Ben Collins for conduting the debate, and to Rob Levin and OPN for allowing us to conduct the debate on their network. /td /tr tr td valign=topstrongQuorum/strong:/td td valign=topWith 939 developers, Q=15.32155, making a quorum of 45.96466/td /tr tr td valign=topstrongOutcome/strong:/td td valign=top nbsp; /td /tr /table -- It must have been some unmarried fool that said A child can ask questions that a wise man cannot answer; because, in any decent house, a brat that starts asking questions is promptly packed off to bed. Arthur Binstead Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Quorum for DPL election 2002
Hi Folks, The official Quorum for the the DPL 2002 election process is 45.96466 I'd appreciate it if the web pages could be updated to reflect that. Thanks. manoj -- I never said all Democrats were saloonkeepers; what I said was all saloonkeepers were Democrats. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Voting page changes for the new GR
here. 3. Proposed changes We should ackowledge the fact the IRC channels are used to communicate within Debian. They are only an alternate way to discuss things. They are not the main communication channels (the mailing lists are). This should be documented in Debian Developers Reference and wherever it's applicable. By acknowledging their existence, we also have to apply the usual Debian policies : - all #debian-* channels on OpenProjects should be open to everyone except #debian-private which is for registered debian developers only (the actual "key protection" may be replaced by a better identification mechanism at any time) - the "netiquette" (RFC 1855, section 4.1.2) applies, channels' subjects should be respected Nevertheless, some specific IRC rules apply : - the channels should not be publicly archived without notice - public quotations may not be accepted by everyone 4. Item proposed to vote (after the discussion period) [ ] I accept the ratification of IRC channels as a communication medium and as such they have to follow the usual Debian policies (adapted for IRC habits) Back to the Debian Project homepage. This page is also available in the following languages: dansk Deutsch Espaol How to set the default document language See the Debian contact page for information on contacting us. Last Modified: Tue, Aug 28 08:10:20 UTC 2001 Copyright 1997-2001 SPI; See license terms -- There is no fire like desire. There is no weakness like anger. There is no suffering like the khandhas. There is no happiness greater than peace. 202 Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Bug#71130: depends on non-free _hardware_?
Jacob == Jacob Kuntz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jacob packages.debian.org has a description for contrib that states: Jacob Contrib Jacob Packages in this area are free themselves but depend Jacob on other software or hardware that is not free. Jacob Jacob non-free hardware suggests the existance of free hardware. is Jacob this a typo, or have i been ripped off? Of course there is free hardware. Perhaps not free as in beer, but free as in adhering to open, and free standards. When we say free software, we are more interested in freedome, not in cost, really. The same applies to hardware. manoj -- Two percent of zero is almost nothing. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Virtual packages list
Hi, [Please direct follow ups to the policy list] Joey == Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Joey Hm, I wonder if debian-policy is the correct owner for this, since it Joey appears to be unmaintained according to discussion on debian-www. If that is the case, and since it is physically in the policy-package, I offer to maintain the list (assuming the people on the policy list do not think do not object to this blatant grab of power ;-) manoj -- Mathematicians practice absolute freedom. Henry Adams Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
Re: http://www.debian.org/social_contract changes
Hi, Please ensure that the URL http://www.debian.org/social_contract remains valid. I have been passing that around to people at the ALS, and it should not be moved out from under. manoj -- When I was crossing the border into Canada, they asked if I had any firearms with me. I said, Well, what do you need? Steven Wright Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/ Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
Re: Is NPL DFSG complient or not?
Hi, Martin == Martin Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Martin If the NPL is DFSG complient, which I think it is according Martin to my memories, it should be listed in the DFSG/SC. Why? We certainly do not want to list every licence which is DFSG free as examples in the DFSG. I object to having to change the DFSG every time a new license appears on the scene. Martin If the NPL is not DFSG complient, I believe, we should state why we Martin don't consider it as DFSG complient. It is DFSG compliant. It just is not one of the examples. The examples are by no means considered to be an exhaustive and complete list (It oes nt say: these are the only licenses we feel are compliant, it just says here are some we feel are free). We should not change the DFSG for something this trivial. Martin In either case, could the web-master team put this on their todo list Martin please? I think there is no need for this. manoj -- Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. Will Rogers Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/ Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
Re: Is NPL DFSG complient or not?
Hi, Martin == Martin Schulze [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Martin However I believe that we should maintain a list of other licenses Martin that are DFSG free so people can look it up, don't have to worry, don't Martin have to care etc. I'm not refering to every single license of every Martin program that uses a different license but to commonly used or famous Martin ones like BSD*, GPL, LGPL, Artistic, NPL, MPL etc. I like that, as long as this list is not maintianed in the DFSG. I think we should really rteally think hard before modifying the DFSG. However, a list of common popular licenses that have been examined and are known to qualify would be a good thing, as long as no claim is made about correctness or completeness which may open us up to liability. manoj -- All the system's paths must be topologically and circularly interrelated for conceptually definitive, locally transformable, polyhedronal understanding to be attained in our spontaneous -- ergo, most economical -- geodesiccally structured thoughts. Buckminster Fuller [...and a total non-sequitur as far as I can tell. -kl] Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/ Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
Re: looking for people to translate the web pages
Hi, James == James A Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: James I am currently looking for a single translator to start working James on the first translation. This person should know CVS, wml, James html and be very proficient in English. Being fluent in perl James would be a bonus. I think you missed out on another requirement: knowledge of a non-english latin1 language. I meet al the requirements mentioned above, except that the only non-english alnguages I am proficient in are wriiten in devanagiri script, which, AFAIK, can't be represented on the web. ;-) manoj -- If the vendors started doing everything right, we would be out of a job. Let's hear it for OSI and X! With those babies in the wings, we can count on being employed until we drop, or get smart and switch to gardening, paper folding, or something. Philip Wood Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/ Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: site design again
Hi, Sorry, I must be going blind. I totally missed captain blue eyes, perched right on top. As I said before, me likum. manoj -- Failing to get them to do it your way might mean they're stupid, but it also means you failed to get them to do it your way. Cal Keegan Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/ Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: content negotiation for language in web pages
Hi, James == James A Treacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: James The big problem with this is that it all hinges on every server James supporting content negotiation (CN from here on in). We don't James control the mirrors so it's a big problem. Without content James negotiation, you run into a problem in deciding how to write James links. If you just write foo.html, then CN does the right James thing. Without CN, you can only get one language. Pardon me for being dense, but it is not any worse than the current situation, is it? I mean, we have the default language at the moment. Though we can't mandate content negotiation on mirror servers, we can suggest that they do so; don't most modern servers support CN quite easily? And in any case, it does seem like CN is the way to go, and even mirror servers that do not support it yet shall gradually get to supporting it. manoj -- The likelihood of anything happening is in direct proportion to the amount of trouble it will cause if it does happen. -- Sam W. Warren Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/ Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word unsubscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
