[libreoffice-design] Minimum target sizes
Hi guys, I'd like to establish some minimum target sizes. My proposal: Minimum mouse target size: 6px; as large as the arrow button in a GtkSpinBox in the current theme for theme-dependent controls Minimum touch target: 7mm The bit about the GtkSpinBox is from the Gnome HIG [1], which we refer to when we don't have guidelines of our own. 6px was suggested by me. All the spin box arrow buttons that I looked at (Windows, Mac OS X, Adwaita, and some other themes I found using image search) had widths and heights larger than 6px. The touch target is based on both the Android guidelines [2] and the WP guidelines [3]. If no one objects, I'll add these to the guidelines after the upcoming IRC chat. (There will, of course, be room for discussion and edits afterwards.) [1] https://developer.gnome.org/hig-book/3.4/input-mouse.html.en [2] http://developer.android.com/design/style/metrics-grids.html [3] http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9713252 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Start Center Niggles
2013/12/27 Cor Nouws > Hi Mirek, > > Mirek M. wrote (27-12-13 16:32) > > 2013/12/27 Mirek M. > >> 2013/12/24 Cor Nouws > >> > >>> I agree. With applauding for the many improvements, but also with > >>> the criticism on the thumbnails size. > >>> > >>> - I see in 4.2.0 beta there are 10 thumbnails on one line. And > >>> room for 4 to 5 lines. Those thumbnails are a bit small. > >>> > >>> - In 4.2.0 RC1 there are 4 thumbnails on one line and only two > >>> lines visible. Really way too large. > >>> > >>> Something as 7 to 8 thumbnails on one line would be best, IMO. > >>> > >> > >> Keep in mind that: * The number of thumbnails per line depends on > >> the window size. * This window will usually be full-screen, given > >> that it transforms into modules. * At smaller sizes, the thumbnails > >> are much harder to make out. > > Yes, I did consider all those. > > >> Take a look at Stuart's screenshot: > >> > http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4088188/StartCenter_1920x1200HD_fully_populated_18-thumbnails_with_vertical_scroll.jpg > . > >> The presentations are easy to make out, but the documents can be > >> hard to make out, even at this size. > > That looks as a reasonable compromise between what I see in beta2 and rc1. > > > Mirek M. wrote (27-12-13 16:41) > > > The thumbnails are there to be able to set apart documents at a glance, > so > > there's some need to be able to make out the basics, though it's true > that > > with documents, you'll mostly be looking at the layout and perhaps the > > title. > > My response obviously was triggered by using rc1 after beta2 :) > Larger is easer to read, of course. But at the size of rc1 I can almost > edit them :) (1366x768 usually full screen) But finding recent document > that are below #8 (number of recent documents counts to 25..) is a pita ;) > > > All these things said (talking about my recent messages, not just this > > one), though, I wouldn't mind it if the previews were limited to 180x180 > > instead of the current 256x256. > > Sounds interesting! > Is the screenshot above 180X180? > No, I think it's still 256x256, just on a large monitor. > Was the size in beta2 90x90 or so ? > It was a smaller than 180x180, but I don't remember the exact size. > > thanks for your response! > Cor > > -- > - Cor Nouws > - http://nl.libreoffice.org > - The Document Foundation Membership Committee Member > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Start Center Niggles
Hi Mirek, Mirek M. wrote (27-12-13 16:32) > 2013/12/27 Mirek M. >> 2013/12/24 Cor Nouws >> >>> I agree. With applauding for the many improvements, but also with >>> the criticism on the thumbnails size. >>> >>> - I see in 4.2.0 beta there are 10 thumbnails on one line. And >>> room for 4 to 5 lines. Those thumbnails are a bit small. >>> >>> - In 4.2.0 RC1 there are 4 thumbnails on one line and only two >>> lines visible. Really way too large. >>> >>> Something as 7 to 8 thumbnails on one line would be best, IMO. >>> >> >> Keep in mind that: * The number of thumbnails per line depends on >> the window size. * This window will usually be full-screen, given >> that it transforms into modules. * At smaller sizes, the thumbnails >> are much harder to make out. Yes, I did consider all those. >> Take a look at Stuart's screenshot: >> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4088188/StartCenter_1920x1200HD_fully_populated_18-thumbnails_with_vertical_scroll.jpg. >> The presentations are easy to make out, but the documents can be >> hard to make out, even at this size. That looks as a reasonable compromise between what I see in beta2 and rc1. Mirek M. wrote (27-12-13 16:41) > The thumbnails are there to be able to set apart documents at a glance, so > there's some need to be able to make out the basics, though it's true that > with documents, you'll mostly be looking at the layout and perhaps the > title. My response obviously was triggered by using rc1 after beta2 :) Larger is easer to read, of course. But at the size of rc1 I can almost edit them :) (1366x768 usually full screen) But finding recent document that are below #8 (number of recent documents counts to 25..) is a pita ;) > All these things said (talking about my recent messages, not just this > one), though, I wouldn't mind it if the previews were limited to 180x180 > instead of the current 256x256. Sounds interesting! Is the screenshot above 180X180? Was the size in beta2 90x90 or so ? thanks for your response! Cor -- - Cor Nouws - http://nl.libreoffice.org - The Document Foundation Membership Committee Member -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Start Center Niggles
The thumbnails are there to be able to set apart documents at a glance, so there's some need to be able to make out the basics, though it's true that with documents, you'll mostly be looking at the layout and perhaps the title. All these things said (talking about my recent messages, not just this one), though, I wouldn't mind it if the previews were limited to 180x180 instead of the current 256x256. 2013/12/27 Adolfo Jayme Barrientos > On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Mirek M. wrote: > > * At smaller sizes, the thumbnails are much harder to make out. Take a > look > > I don't think there's an actual need to "make out" things. You have > the name of the document as well, don't you? And for anything bigger > you can open a separate window (like GNOME Sushi). > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Start Center Niggles
2013/12/27 Mirek M. > Hi Cor, Pedro, > > > 2013/12/24 Cor Nouws > >> Pedro wrote (14-12-13 10:12) >> > Jan Holesovsky-4 wrote >> >> - Thumbnails >> >> I considerably increased their size, and improved their drawing >> >> algorithm to antialias the pictures. Also for the files that have no >> >> thumbnail, I made it look like the icon is on a piece of paper; looks >> >> much more consistently when there are more documents open. >> > >> > This reduces even more the number of available items (only 6?)... It was >> > already hugely reduced by removing the tabs... >> > I think it makes the Recent Documents irrelevant... >> >> I agree. With applauding for the many improvements, but also with the >> criticism on the thumbnails size. >> >> - I see in 4.2.0 beta there are 10 thumbnails on one line. And room for >> 4 to 5 lines. Those thumbnails are a bit small. >> >> - In 4.2.0 RC1 there are 4 thumbnails on one line and only two lines >> visible. Really way too large. >> >> Something as 7 to 8 thumbnails on one line would be best, IMO. >> > > Keep in mind that: > * The number of thumbnails per line depends on the window size. > * This window will usually be full-screen, given that it transforms into > modules. > * At smaller sizes, the thumbnails are much harder to make out. Take a > look at Stuart's screenshot: > http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4088188/StartCenter_1920x1200HD_fully_populated_18-thumbnails_with_vertical_scroll.jpg. > The presentations are easy to make out, but the documents can be hard to > make out, even at this size. > One more thing: The number of recent documents is limited, so there's not that much need to fit a lot of thumbnails in. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Start Center Niggles
Hi Cor, Pedro, 2013/12/24 Cor Nouws > Pedro wrote (14-12-13 10:12) > > Jan Holesovsky-4 wrote > >> - Thumbnails > >> I considerably increased their size, and improved their drawing > >> algorithm to antialias the pictures. Also for the files that have no > >> thumbnail, I made it look like the icon is on a piece of paper; looks > >> much more consistently when there are more documents open. > > > > This reduces even more the number of available items (only 6?)... It was > > already hugely reduced by removing the tabs... > > I think it makes the Recent Documents irrelevant... > > I agree. With applauding for the many improvements, but also with the > criticism on the thumbnails size. > > - I see in 4.2.0 beta there are 10 thumbnails on one line. And room for > 4 to 5 lines. Those thumbnails are a bit small. > > - In 4.2.0 RC1 there are 4 thumbnails on one line and only two lines > visible. Really way too large. > > Something as 7 to 8 thumbnails on one line would be best, IMO. > Keep in mind that: * The number of thumbnails per line depends on the window size. * This window will usually be full-screen, given that it transforms into modules. * At smaller sizes, the thumbnails are much harder to make out. Take a look at Stuart's screenshot: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4088188/StartCenter_1920x1200HD_fully_populated_18-thumbnails_with_vertical_scroll.jpg. The presentations are easy to make out, but the documents can be hard to make out, even at this size. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: Start Center Niggles
Hi Kendy, Sorry for replying so very late, I had some problems with compilation. I'm really digging the bigger previews -- thanks for all your work! :) My niggles are now purely minuscule and I guess largely subjective. (I'd still prefer #f9f9f9 for the background of the document area, a 16px font size for the button labels, and showing the first sentence of the welcome message in bigger, bolder letters, as seen at http://ubuntuone.com/0bhbyPRVt8hChFsZ64HBfO.) However, I'd still like to ask for a few things (hope I'm not being too brash here): * Please refresh the list of thumbnails right after clicking "File" -> "Recent Documents" -> "Clear List" -- it's not immediately clear that the list was cleared. (It would also be great if you could add the "Clear List" button right under the "File" menu, perhaps rename it to "Clear Recent Files", for easier discoverability.) * Please make it clear visually that "Create" is a label and not a button. If you don't want to differentiate using font size and weight, you can add icons for Open and Templates (those are part of http://ubuntuone.com/0bhbyPRVt8hChFsZ64HBfO, might be somewhere in the icon set as well). * Please show the tooltip over the thumbnail label. As for the border around module icons, would it be possible to a) use a different aspect ratio for presentations, b) use a dotted outline instead of a full one, to differentiate previews and non-previews? 2013/12/13 Jan Holesovsky > Hi Mirek, all, > > Mirek M. píše v St 04. 12. 2013 v 10:03 +0100: > > > > Yes, here are the decisions [1]: > > > > * Keep sidebar on the left for LTR locales, have it on the right for > > RTL locales. > > * Use thumbnails, but indicate file type using colors or badges. -- We > > still need to design this, but if we don't do it in time, having no > > color codes for this release is fine and we'll put them in the next > > one. > > * Use 2-line labels, with the name cut off in the middle, just like > > the labels in Gnome Documents. > > * Show the full file path (including extension) in a tooltip. > > > > * Button labels: Create Writer Text Document (or simply Writer > > Document, if Writer Text Document is too long in some languages -- > > your call), Calc Spreadsheet, Impress Presentation, Draw Drawing, Math > > Formula, Base Database > > > > * Greeting: Welcome to LibreOffice. Use the sidebar to open or create > > a file. > > So I have implemented most of these, I think I've left out only the 2 > lines description - it is more complex unfortunately :-( I also fixed a > couple of things that were annoying me personally. The results are > here: > > Empty start center, with no documents: > > http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~kendy/design-list/startcenter-empty.png > > Some recent documents present: > > http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~kendy/design-list/startcenter-recent.png > > You can see some differences to the design, most notably: > > - Create > When playing with that, it started to annoy me that it is _above_ the > separator line, and that it has smaller font size. Also, it logically > belongs to the group of the buttons, so I moved it there, gave it the > same size as the button text, and added a colon. I believe it works > pretty well ;-) > > - Thumbnails > I considerably increased their size, and improved their drawing > algorithm to antialias the pictures. Also for the files that have no > thumbnail, I made it look like the icon is on a piece of paper; looks > much more consistently when there are more documents open. > > - Open File > I changed the pure 'Open' to 'Open File' - I think it goes better with > the explanatory Writer Document / Calc Spreadsheet etc. > > - Various pixel here, pixel there tweaks > To get more breathing space etc. - hopefully you are happy with the > result, it would be just too painful for everybody to ping-pong every > change there :-) > > - Mouse over > Now we have a mouse over effect when you point at the thumbnails. > > Finally - there are still things to fix around accessibility, haven't > changed a bit there; but that shouldn't be affected by the UI freeze, I > still plan to have a look. > > Please shout if anything is wrong - but I hope the current state is > acceptable for most :-) Everyone, please play with the nightly build > that is built after now & report bugs. > > All the best, > Kendy > > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] IRC chat 2013-12-29
As every week, we'll have an IRC chat this weekend at 12:00 UTC on the #libreoffice-design channel on freenode. More info at https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Meetings . Everyone's welcome. If you can't make it, but would like to see a topic discussed, send it in a reply. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
