new contributor messaging: behaviorbot/welcome

[Austin Bennett]

Hi Devs,

I'd like us to consider adding behaviorbot ,
and specifically behaviorbot/welcome
 to beam's repo.  This will allow
us to easily have a bit of messaging to new contributors.  Ex: on first
issue creation and/or first PR.  Such messaging gets defined in
`.github/config.yml` ...

I imagine this is not particularly contentious.  If we do believe fine, can
someone install: https://github.com/apps/welcome to our repo?  Once in the
repo, I can configure [ and get a review for ] the messaging for the
various conditions [ to live in `.github/config.yml`  ]

Thanks,
Austin

Re: new contributor messaging: behaviorbot/welcome

[Danny McCormick via dev]

Hey Austin, I'm +1 for adding a welcome bot, I would vote we use
https://github.com/actions/first-interaction instead though.

The pros I see are:
- (minor) we don't need to install the bot (which would require infra
approval I believe)
- GitHub has generally lowered (if not completely deprecated) probot apps
in favor of actions
- it matches our other automations which are all actions based

The only con I see:
- actions/first-interaction doesn't support PR merge messages (
https://github.com/behaviorbot/welcome#first-pr-merge)

If you put up a PR for `first-interaction`, I'm happy to review/merge
(barring further disagreement on this thread).

Thanks,
Danny

On Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 4:33 PM Austin Bennett  wrote:

> Hi Devs,
>
> I'd like us to consider adding behaviorbot
> , and specifically behaviorbot/welcome
>  to beam's repo.  This will allow
> us to easily have a bit of messaging to new contributors.  Ex: on first
> issue creation and/or first PR.  Such messaging gets defined in
> `.github/config.yml` ...
>
> I imagine this is not particularly contentious.  If we do believe fine,
> can someone install: https://github.com/apps/welcome to our repo?  Once
> in the repo, I can configure [ and get a review for ] the messaging for the
> various conditions [ to live in `.github/config.yml`  ]
>
> Thanks,
> Austin
>

Re: new contributor messaging: behaviorbot/welcome

[Austin Bennett]

There are lots of great places for messages/encouragement to developers as
they work more into our community.  Though, PR merge messages would
potentially be quite valuable [ for ex:
https://news.apache.org/foundation/entry/the-asf-launches-firstasfcontribution-campaign
... specifically, I wanted to send a message thanking for someone's first
PR merge, and encourage them to fill out the form
 ( while that campaign is active ), so
that they then write up something for ASF to publish, which in-turn
increases the visibility of Beam :-) and Beam as a great example of a
healthy ASF project ].

No disagreement that if something exists off-the-shelf that is actions
based that is a plenty fine way to proceed.  For the shared use-case, the
PR merge is the ideal place to message.

Alternatives:
* I'd also be happy to leverage first-interaction for everything it can do,
and only use welcome-bot for the things that aren't met elsewhere [ also
happy to eventually remove welcome-bot, ex: after that ASF campaign or once
a suitable off-the-shelf replacement comes along ]
or
* @Danny McCormick  - any idea whether there is
another tool that can help with messaging on first-pr-merge that we'd be
more happy with [ I can search around some if that's the path ]?  And/or
since I imagine you might know GH Action internals [ IIRC you had worked
with/for that organization ] better than me at the moment, do you think
that's functionality that could straightforwardly be added to
first-interaction  [ if they
would accept a PR ].  Else, if we think the APIs support a
decent/straightforward design, I can always create a custom GH action.  I
can dig in there if that's the route needed to accomplish, but thought you
might recall the GH APIs better than my current knowledge.  Thoughts?


On Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 6:47 PM Danny McCormick via dev 
wrote:

> Hey Austin, I'm +1 for adding a welcome bot, I would vote we use
> https://github.com/actions/first-interaction instead though.
>
> The pros I see are:
> - (minor) we don't need to install the bot (which would require infra
> approval I believe)
> - GitHub has generally lowered (if not completely deprecated) probot apps
> in favor of actions
> - it matches our other automations which are all actions based
>
> The only con I see:
> - actions/first-interaction doesn't support PR merge messages (
> https://github.com/behaviorbot/welcome#first-pr-merge)
>
> If you put up a PR for `first-interaction`, I'm happy to review/merge
> (barring further disagreement on this thread).
>
> Thanks,
> Danny
>
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 4:33 PM Austin Bennett  wrote:
>
>> Hi Devs,
>>
>> I'd like us to consider adding behaviorbot
>> , and specifically behaviorbot/welcome
>>  to beam's repo.  This will
>> allow us to easily have a bit of messaging to new contributors.  Ex: on
>> first issue creation and/or first PR.  Such messaging gets defined in
>> `.github/config.yml` ...
>>
>> I imagine this is not particularly contentious.  If we do believe fine,
>> can someone install: https://github.com/apps/welcome to our repo?  Once
>> in the repo, I can configure [ and get a review for ] the messaging for the
>> various conditions [ to live in `.github/config.yml`  ]
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Austin
>>
>

Re: new contributor messaging: behaviorbot/welcome

[Danny McCormick via dev]

If the merge message is a key part of this then I'm fine using
behaviorbot (though I think a PMC member would need to install it, I don't
have the right permission set).

> I'd also be happy to leverage first-interaction for everything it can do,
and only use welcome-bot for the things that aren't met elsewhere [ also
happy to eventually remove welcome-bot, ex: after that ASF campaign or once
a suitable off-the-shelf replacement comes along ]

I don't think we should do this, there's not really a benefit gained if
we're still using welcome-bot.

> @Danny McCormick  - any idea whether there is
another tool that can help with messaging on first-pr-merge that we'd be
more happy with [ I can search around some if that's the path ]?

My best alternative would be actions/first-interaction for first issues/prs
opened and a custom workflow using an if/else and
actions/comment-pull-request
 for the pr
merge comment, that is probably more trouble than it is worth though (>10
lines of code for something that can just be config).

> And/or since I imagine you might know GH Action internals [ IIRC you had
worked with/for that organization ] better than me at the moment, do you
think that's functionality that could straightforwardly be added to
first-interaction  [ if they
would accept a PR ]

This wouldn't be too hard codewise, but the team hasn't been especially
responsive on external code reviews, so I wouldn't block on this route.

Thanks,
Danny

On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 11:15 AM Austin Bennett 
wrote:

> There are lots of great places for messages/encouragement to developers as
> they work more into our community.  Though, PR merge messages would
> potentially be quite valuable [ for ex:
> https://news.apache.org/foundation/entry/the-asf-launches-firstasfcontribution-campaign
> ... specifically, I wanted to send a message thanking for someone's first
> PR merge, and encourage them to fill out the form
>  ( while that campaign is active
> ), so that they then write up something for ASF to publish, which in-turn
> increases the visibility of Beam :-) and Beam as a great example of a
> healthy ASF project ].
>
> No disagreement that if something exists off-the-shelf that is actions
> based that is a plenty fine way to proceed.  For the shared use-case, the
> PR merge is the ideal place to message.
>
> Alternatives:
> * I'd also be happy to leverage first-interaction for everything it can
> do, and only use welcome-bot for the things that aren't met elsewhere [
> also happy to eventually remove welcome-bot, ex: after that ASF campaign or
> once a suitable off-the-shelf replacement comes along ]
> or
> * @Danny McCormick  - any idea whether there
> is another tool that can help with messaging on first-pr-merge that we'd be
> more happy with [ I can search around some if that's the path ]?  And/or
> since I imagine you might know GH Action internals [ IIRC you had worked
> with/for that organization ] better than me at the moment, do you think
> that's functionality that could straightforwardly be added to
> first-interaction  [ if
> they would accept a PR ].  Else, if we think the APIs support a
> decent/straightforward design, I can always create a custom GH action.  I
> can dig in there if that's the route needed to accomplish, but thought you
> might recall the GH APIs better than my current knowledge.  Thoughts?
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 6:47 PM Danny McCormick via dev <
> dev@beam.apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Hey Austin, I'm +1 for adding a welcome bot, I would vote we use
>> https://github.com/actions/first-interaction instead though.
>>
>> The pros I see are:
>> - (minor) we don't need to install the bot (which would require infra
>> approval I believe)
>> - GitHub has generally lowered (if not completely deprecated) probot apps
>> in favor of actions
>> - it matches our other automations which are all actions based
>>
>> The only con I see:
>> - actions/first-interaction doesn't support PR merge messages (
>> https://github.com/behaviorbot/welcome#first-pr-merge)
>>
>> If you put up a PR for `first-interaction`, I'm happy to review/merge
>> (barring further disagreement on this thread).
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Danny
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 4:33 PM Austin Bennett  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Devs,
>>>
>>> I'd like us to consider adding behaviorbot
>>> , and specifically behaviorbot/welcome
>>>  to beam's repo.  This will
>>> allow us to easily have a bit of messaging to new contributors.  Ex: on
>>> first issue creation and/or first PR.  Such messaging gets defined in
>>> `.github/config.yml` ...
>>>
>>> I imagine this is not particularly contentious.  If we do believe fine,
>>> can someone install: https://github.com/apps/welcome to our repo?  Once
>>> in the repo, I c

Re: new contributor messaging: behaviorbot/welcome

[Robert Burke]

I can't speak for all committers but I'm always aware when it's someone's
first time contributing to beam (the First Time Contributor badge is
instrumental here), and manually thank them and welcome them to Beam.

Seems more meaningful for the merging comitter to do it rather than an
automated process.

Maybe i just have bad experiences with automated phone trees

On Tue, Feb 21, 2023, 9:02 AM Danny McCormick via dev 
wrote:

> If the merge message is a key part of this then I'm fine using
> behaviorbot (though I think a PMC member would need to install it, I don't
> have the right permission set).
>
> > I'd also be happy to leverage first-interaction for everything it can
> do, and only use welcome-bot for the things that aren't met elsewhere [
> also happy to eventually remove welcome-bot, ex: after that ASF campaign or
> once a suitable off-the-shelf replacement comes along ]
>
> I don't think we should do this, there's not really a benefit gained if
> we're still using welcome-bot.
>
> > @Danny McCormick  - any idea whether there
> is another tool that can help with messaging on first-pr-merge that we'd be
> more happy with [ I can search around some if that's the path ]?
>
> My best alternative would be actions/first-interaction for first
> issues/prs opened and a custom workflow using an if/else and
> actions/comment-pull-request
>  for the pr
> merge comment, that is probably more trouble than it is worth though (>10
> lines of code for something that can just be config).
>
> > And/or since I imagine you might know GH Action internals [ IIRC you had
> worked with/for that organization ] better than me at the moment, do you
> think that's functionality that could straightforwardly be added to
> first-interaction  [ if
> they would accept a PR ]
>
> This wouldn't be too hard codewise, but the team hasn't been especially
> responsive on external code reviews, so I wouldn't block on this route.
>
> Thanks,
> Danny
>
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 11:15 AM Austin Bennett <
> whatwouldausti...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There are lots of great places for messages/encouragement to developers
>> as they work more into our community.  Though, PR merge messages would
>> potentially be quite valuable [ for ex:
>> https://news.apache.org/foundation/entry/the-asf-launches-firstasfcontribution-campaign
>> ... specifically, I wanted to send a message thanking for someone's first
>> PR merge, and encourage them to fill out the form
>>  ( while that campaign is active
>> ), so that they then write up something for ASF to publish, which in-turn
>> increases the visibility of Beam :-) and Beam as a great example of a
>> healthy ASF project ].
>>
>> No disagreement that if something exists off-the-shelf that is actions
>> based that is a plenty fine way to proceed.  For the shared use-case, the
>> PR merge is the ideal place to message.
>>
>> Alternatives:
>> * I'd also be happy to leverage first-interaction for everything it can
>> do, and only use welcome-bot for the things that aren't met elsewhere [
>> also happy to eventually remove welcome-bot, ex: after that ASF campaign or
>> once a suitable off-the-shelf replacement comes along ]
>> or
>> * @Danny McCormick  - any idea whether there
>> is another tool that can help with messaging on first-pr-merge that we'd be
>> more happy with [ I can search around some if that's the path ]?  And/or
>> since I imagine you might know GH Action internals [ IIRC you had worked
>> with/for that organization ] better than me at the moment, do you think
>> that's functionality that could straightforwardly be added to
>> first-interaction  [ if
>> they would accept a PR ].  Else, if we think the APIs support a
>> decent/straightforward design, I can always create a custom GH action.  I
>> can dig in there if that's the route needed to accomplish, but thought you
>> might recall the GH APIs better than my current knowledge.  Thoughts?
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 6:47 PM Danny McCormick via dev <
>> dev@beam.apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Austin, I'm +1 for adding a welcome bot, I would vote we use
>>> https://github.com/actions/first-interaction instead though.
>>>
>>> The pros I see are:
>>> - (minor) we don't need to install the bot (which would require infra
>>> approval I believe)
>>> - GitHub has generally lowered (if not completely deprecated) probot
>>> apps in favor of actions
>>> - it matches our other automations which are all actions based
>>>
>>> The only con I see:
>>> - actions/first-interaction doesn't support PR merge messages (
>>> https://github.com/behaviorbot/welcome#first-pr-merge)
>>>
>>> If you put up a PR for `first-interaction`, I'm happy to review/merge
>>> (barring further disagreement on this thread).
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Danny
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 20, 2023 at 4:33 PM Aus

Re: new contributor messaging: behaviorbot/welcome

[Kenneth Knowles]

Agree with Robert here. The human connection is important. Can we have a
behaviorbot that reminds the reviewer to be extra welcoming up front, and
then thankful afterwards, instead? :-)

That said, a bot comment would at least state our intention of being
welcoming and grateful, even if we then do not live up to it perfectly. It
isn't very different than having it in the PR template or
https://beam.apache.org/contribute/ or CONTRIBUTING.md which GitHub
presents to first time contributors. I tend to favor static text that can
be referred to over dynamic text posted by code in special circumstances.
But I think hitting this from all angles, for different sorts of people in
the world, is fine, if the maintenance burden is very low (which it appears
to be)

Kenn

On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 10:01 AM Robert Burke  wrote:

> I can't speak for all committers but I'm always aware when it's someone's
> first time contributing to beam (the First Time Contributor badge is
> instrumental here), and manually thank them and welcome them to Beam.
>
> Seems more meaningful for the merging comitter to do it rather than an
> automated process.
>
> Maybe i just have bad experiences with automated phone trees
>
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023, 9:02 AM Danny McCormick via dev 
> wrote:
>
>> If the merge message is a key part of this then I'm fine using
>> behaviorbot (though I think a PMC member would need to install it, I don't
>> have the right permission set).
>>
>> > I'd also be happy to leverage first-interaction for everything it can
>> do, and only use welcome-bot for the things that aren't met elsewhere [
>> also happy to eventually remove welcome-bot, ex: after that ASF campaign or
>> once a suitable off-the-shelf replacement comes along ]
>>
>> I don't think we should do this, there's not really a benefit gained if
>> we're still using welcome-bot.
>>
>> > @Danny McCormick  - any idea whether there
>> is another tool that can help with messaging on first-pr-merge that we'd be
>> more happy with [ I can search around some if that's the path ]?
>>
>> My best alternative would be actions/first-interaction for first
>> issues/prs opened and a custom workflow using an if/else and
>> actions/comment-pull-request
>>  for the pr
>> merge comment, that is probably more trouble than it is worth though (>10
>> lines of code for something that can just be config).
>>
>> > And/or since I imagine you might know GH Action internals [ IIRC you
>> had worked with/for that organization ] better than me at the moment, do
>> you think that's functionality that could straightforwardly be added to
>> first-interaction  [ if
>> they would accept a PR ]
>>
>> This wouldn't be too hard codewise, but the team hasn't been especially
>> responsive on external code reviews, so I wouldn't block on this route.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Danny
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 11:15 AM Austin Bennett <
>> whatwouldausti...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> There are lots of great places for messages/encouragement to developers
>>> as they work more into our community.  Though, PR merge messages would
>>> potentially be quite valuable [ for ex:
>>> https://news.apache.org/foundation/entry/the-asf-launches-firstasfcontribution-campaign
>>> ... specifically, I wanted to send a message thanking for someone's first
>>> PR merge, and encourage them to fill out the form
>>>  ( while that campaign is active
>>> ), so that they then write up something for ASF to publish, which in-turn
>>> increases the visibility of Beam :-) and Beam as a great example of a
>>> healthy ASF project ].
>>>
>>> No disagreement that if something exists off-the-shelf that is actions
>>> based that is a plenty fine way to proceed.  For the shared use-case, the
>>> PR merge is the ideal place to message.
>>>
>>> Alternatives:
>>> * I'd also be happy to leverage first-interaction for everything it can
>>> do, and only use welcome-bot for the things that aren't met elsewhere [
>>> also happy to eventually remove welcome-bot, ex: after that ASF campaign or
>>> once a suitable off-the-shelf replacement comes along ]
>>> or
>>> * @Danny McCormick  - any idea whether there
>>> is another tool that can help with messaging on first-pr-merge that we'd be
>>> more happy with [ I can search around some if that's the path ]?  And/or
>>> since I imagine you might know GH Action internals [ IIRC you had worked
>>> with/for that organization ] better than me at the moment, do you think
>>> that's functionality that could straightforwardly be added to
>>> first-interaction  [ if
>>> they would accept a PR ].  Else, if we think the APIs support a
>>> decent/straightforward design, I can always create a custom GH action.  I
>>> can dig in there if that's the route needed to accomplish, but thought you
>>> might recall the GH APIs better than m

Re: new contributor messaging: behaviorbot/welcome

[Robert Bradshaw via dev]

On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 10:59 AM Kenneth Knowles  wrote:
>
> Agree with Robert here. The human connection is important. Can we have a 
> behaviorbot that reminds the reviewer to be extra welcoming up front, and 
> then thankful afterwards, instead? :-)

+1

> That said, a bot comment would at least state our intention of being 
> welcoming and grateful, even if we then do not live up to it perfectly. It 
> isn't very different than having it in the PR template or 
> https://beam.apache.org/contribute/ or CONTRIBUTING.md which GitHub presents 
> to first time contributors. I tend to favor static text that can be referred 
> to over dynamic text posted by code in special circumstances. But I think 
> hitting this from all angles, for different sorts of people in the world, is 
> fine, if the maintenance burden is very low (which it appears to be)

I think the primary value in such a bot is to set expectations/inform
the contributor of something they might not know but is relevant to
their action. Otherwise, I am more in favor of static text somewhere
they're sure to encounter it (and there are benefits to doing it
before they create a PR, e.g. as part of a template, rather than
after).


> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 10:01 AM Robert Burke  wrote:
>>
>> I can't speak for all committers but I'm always aware when it's someone's 
>> first time contributing to beam (the First Time Contributor badge is 
>> instrumental here), and manually thank them and welcome them to Beam.
>>
>> Seems more meaningful for the merging comitter to do it rather than an 
>> automated process.
>>
>> Maybe i just have bad experiences with automated phone trees
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023, 9:02 AM Danny McCormick via dev  
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> If the merge message is a key part of this then I'm fine using behaviorbot 
>>> (though I think a PMC member would need to install it, I don't have the 
>>> right permission set).
>>>
>>> > I'd also be happy to leverage first-interaction for everything it can do, 
>>> > and only use welcome-bot for the things that aren't met elsewhere [ also 
>>> > happy to eventually remove welcome-bot, ex: after that ASF campaign or 
>>> > once a suitable off-the-shelf replacement comes along ]
>>>
>>> I don't think we should do this, there's not really a benefit gained if 
>>> we're still using welcome-bot.
>>>
>>> > @Danny McCormick - any idea whether there is another tool that can help 
>>> > with messaging on first-pr-merge that we'd be more happy with [ I can 
>>> > search around some if that's the path ]?
>>>
>>> My best alternative would be actions/first-interaction for first issues/prs 
>>> opened and a custom workflow using an if/else and 
>>> actions/comment-pull-request for the pr merge comment, that is probably 
>>> more trouble than it is worth though (>10 lines of code for something that 
>>> can just be config).
>>>
>>> > And/or since I imagine you might know GH Action internals [ IIRC you had 
>>> > worked with/for that organization ] better than me at the moment, do you 
>>> > think that's functionality that could straightforwardly be added to 
>>> > first-interaction [ if they would accept a PR ]
>>>
>>> This wouldn't be too hard codewise, but the team hasn't been especially 
>>> responsive on external code reviews, so I wouldn't block on this route.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Danny
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 11:15 AM Austin Bennett 
>>>  wrote:

 There are lots of great places for messages/encouragement to developers as 
 they work more into our community.  Though, PR merge messages would 
 potentially be quite valuable [ for ex: 
 https://news.apache.org/foundation/entry/the-asf-launches-firstasfcontribution-campaign
  ... specifically, I wanted to send a message thanking for someone's first 
 PR merge, and encourage them to fill out the form ( while that campaign is 
 active ), so that they then write up something for ASF to publish, which 
 in-turn increases the visibility of Beam :-) and Beam as a great example 
 of a healthy ASF project ].

 No disagreement that if something exists off-the-shelf that is actions 
 based that is a plenty fine way to proceed.  For the shared use-case, the 
 PR merge is the ideal place to message.

 Alternatives:
 * I'd also be happy to leverage first-interaction for everything it can 
 do, and only use welcome-bot for the things that aren't met elsewhere [ 
 also happy to eventually remove welcome-bot, ex: after that ASF campaign 
 or once a suitable off-the-shelf replacement comes along ]
 or
 * @Danny McCormick - any idea whether there is another tool that can help 
 with messaging on first-pr-merge that we'd be more happy with [ I can 
 search around some if that's the path ]?  And/or since I imagine you might 
 know GH Action internals [ IIRC you had worked with/for that organization 
 ] better than me at the moment, do you think that's functionality that 
>

Re: new contributor messaging: behaviorbot/welcome

[Austin Bennett]

It is fantastic if generally able to address welcoming newcomers
manually [ @Robert
Burke  ! ] .  Community communication, human connection
[ ex: community > code

]
ideal!!  In this particular case, I imagine automation does not contradict
- nor detract from - the manual/human touch.

As shared, the very specific use case I had in mind was to support -->
https://news.apache.org/foundation/entry/the-asf-launches-firstasfcontribution-campaign
...
I wanted to send a message thanking for someone's first PR merge, and
encourage them to fill out the form  (
while that campaign is active.  In that case, I did imagine a static [
meaning hardcoded, non-changing ] message that prompts them at the moment
that they make their real first code contribution [ as it gets merged ],
since that would be most relevant and immediate feedback.

If we think overkill, no problem either.  If an issue with choosing to use
a bot, vs a GH action - I can also spend time to create a custom GH Action
that accommodates that.  But, that might not be worthwhile if the discussed
use case isn't functionality we even want as part of the project.

On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 12:28 PM Robert Bradshaw 
wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 10:59 AM Kenneth Knowles  wrote:
> >
> > Agree with Robert here. The human connection is important. Can we have a
> behaviorbot that reminds the reviewer to be extra welcoming up front, and
> then thankful afterwards, instead? :-)
>
> +1
>
> > That said, a bot comment would at least state our intention of being
> welcoming and grateful, even if we then do not live up to it perfectly. It
> isn't very different than having it in the PR template or
> https://beam.apache.org/contribute/ or CONTRIBUTING.md which GitHub
> presents to first time contributors. I tend to favor static text that can
> be referred to over dynamic text posted by code in special circumstances.
> But I think hitting this from all angles, for different sorts of people in
> the world, is fine, if the maintenance burden is very low (which it appears
> to be)
>
> I think the primary value in such a bot is to set expectations/inform
> the contributor of something they might not know but is relevant to
> their action. Otherwise, I am more in favor of static text somewhere
> they're sure to encounter it (and there are benefits to doing it
> before they create a PR, e.g. as part of a template, rather than
> after).
>
>
> > On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 10:01 AM Robert Burke 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I can't speak for all committers but I'm always aware when it's
> someone's first time contributing to beam (the First Time Contributor badge
> is instrumental here), and manually thank them and welcome them to Beam.
> >>
> >> Seems more meaningful for the merging comitter to do it rather than an
> automated process.
> >>
> >> Maybe i just have bad experiences with automated phone trees
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023, 9:02 AM Danny McCormick via dev <
> dev@beam.apache.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> If the merge message is a key part of this then I'm fine using
> behaviorbot (though I think a PMC member would need to install it, I don't
> have the right permission set).
> >>>
> >>> > I'd also be happy to leverage first-interaction for everything it
> can do, and only use welcome-bot for the things that aren't met elsewhere [
> also happy to eventually remove welcome-bot, ex: after that ASF campaign or
> once a suitable off-the-shelf replacement comes along ]
> >>>
> >>> I don't think we should do this, there's not really a benefit gained
> if we're still using welcome-bot.
> >>>
> >>> > @Danny McCormick - any idea whether there is another tool that can
> help with messaging on first-pr-merge that we'd be more happy with [ I can
> search around some if that's the path ]?
> >>>
> >>> My best alternative would be actions/first-interaction for first
> issues/prs opened and a custom workflow using an if/else and
> actions/comment-pull-request for the pr merge comment, that is probably
> more trouble than it is worth though (>10 lines of code for something that
> can just be config).
> >>>
> >>> > And/or since I imagine you might know GH Action internals [ IIRC you
> had worked with/for that organization ] better than me at the moment, do
> you think that's functionality that could straightforwardly be added to
> first-interaction [ if they would accept a PR ]
> >>>
> >>> This wouldn't be too hard codewise, but the team hasn't been
> especially responsive on external code reviews, so I wouldn't block on this
> route.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Danny
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 11:15 AM Austin Bennett <
> whatwouldausti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>  There are lots of great places for messages/encouragement to
> developers as they work more into our community.  Though, PR merge messages
> would potentially be q

Re: new contributor messaging: behaviorbot/welcome

[Robert Bradshaw via dev]

FWIW, I'm generally in favor of such a bot. I think it really boils
down to a concrete proposal of what the content (and triggers) would
be.

On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 1:36 PM Austin Bennett
 wrote:
>
> It is fantastic if generally able to address welcoming newcomers manually [ 
> @Robert Burke ! ] .  Community communication, human connection [ ex: 
> community > code ] ideal!!  In this particular case, I imagine automation 
> does not contradict - nor detract from - the manual/human touch.
>
> As shared, the very specific use case I had in mind was to support --> 
> https://news.apache.org/foundation/entry/the-asf-launches-firstasfcontribution-campaign
>  ...  I wanted to send a message thanking for someone's first PR merge, and 
> encourage them to fill out the form ( while that campaign is active.  In that 
> case, I did imagine a static [ meaning hardcoded, non-changing ] message that 
> prompts them at the moment that they make their real first code contribution 
> [ as it gets merged ], since that would be most relevant and immediate 
> feedback.
>
> If we think overkill, no problem either.  If an issue with choosing to use a 
> bot, vs a GH action - I can also spend time to create a custom GH Action that 
> accommodates that.  But, that might not be worthwhile if the discussed use 
> case isn't functionality we even want as part of the project.
>
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 12:28 PM Robert Bradshaw  wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 10:59 AM Kenneth Knowles  wrote:
>> >
>> > Agree with Robert here. The human connection is important. Can we have a 
>> > behaviorbot that reminds the reviewer to be extra welcoming up front, and 
>> > then thankful afterwards, instead? :-)
>>
>> +1
>>
>> > That said, a bot comment would at least state our intention of being 
>> > welcoming and grateful, even if we then do not live up to it perfectly. It 
>> > isn't very different than having it in the PR template or 
>> > https://beam.apache.org/contribute/ or CONTRIBUTING.md which GitHub 
>> > presents to first time contributors. I tend to favor static text that can 
>> > be referred to over dynamic text posted by code in special circumstances. 
>> > But I think hitting this from all angles, for different sorts of people in 
>> > the world, is fine, if the maintenance burden is very low (which it 
>> > appears to be)
>>
>> I think the primary value in such a bot is to set expectations/inform
>> the contributor of something they might not know but is relevant to
>> their action. Otherwise, I am more in favor of static text somewhere
>> they're sure to encounter it (and there are benefits to doing it
>> before they create a PR, e.g. as part of a template, rather than
>> after).
>>
>>
>> > On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 10:01 AM Robert Burke  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I can't speak for all committers but I'm always aware when it's someone's 
>> >> first time contributing to beam (the First Time Contributor badge is 
>> >> instrumental here), and manually thank them and welcome them to Beam.
>> >>
>> >> Seems more meaningful for the merging comitter to do it rather than an 
>> >> automated process.
>> >>
>> >> Maybe i just have bad experiences with automated phone trees
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023, 9:02 AM Danny McCormick via dev 
>> >>  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> If the merge message is a key part of this then I'm fine using 
>> >>> behaviorbot (though I think a PMC member would need to install it, I 
>> >>> don't have the right permission set).
>> >>>
>> >>> > I'd also be happy to leverage first-interaction for everything it can 
>> >>> > do, and only use welcome-bot for the things that aren't met elsewhere 
>> >>> > [ also happy to eventually remove welcome-bot, ex: after that ASF 
>> >>> > campaign or once a suitable off-the-shelf replacement comes along ]
>> >>>
>> >>> I don't think we should do this, there's not really a benefit gained if 
>> >>> we're still using welcome-bot.
>> >>>
>> >>> > @Danny McCormick - any idea whether there is another tool that can 
>> >>> > help with messaging on first-pr-merge that we'd be more happy with [ I 
>> >>> > can search around some if that's the path ]?
>> >>>
>> >>> My best alternative would be actions/first-interaction for first 
>> >>> issues/prs opened and a custom workflow using an if/else and 
>> >>> actions/comment-pull-request for the pr merge comment, that is probably 
>> >>> more trouble than it is worth though (>10 lines of code for something 
>> >>> that can just be config).
>> >>>
>> >>> > And/or since I imagine you might know GH Action internals [ IIRC you 
>> >>> > had worked with/for that organization ] better than me at the moment, 
>> >>> > do you think that's functionality that could straightforwardly be 
>> >>> > added to first-interaction [ if they would accept a PR ]
>> >>>
>> >>> This wouldn't be too hard codewise, but the team hasn't been especially 
>> >>> responsive on external code reviews, so I wouldn't block on this route.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks,
>> >>> Danny
>> >

Re: new contributor messaging: behaviorbot/welcome

[Robert Burke]

I agree that the bot is better than nothing at all.

+1 to getting a PR with messaging out for review.

On Tue, Feb 21, 2023, 5:29 PM Robert Bradshaw via dev 
wrote:

> FWIW, I'm generally in favor of such a bot. I think it really boils
> down to a concrete proposal of what the content (and triggers) would
> be.
>
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 1:36 PM Austin Bennett
>  wrote:
> >
> > It is fantastic if generally able to address welcoming newcomers
> manually [ @Robert Burke ! ] .  Community communication, human connection [
> ex: community > code ] ideal!!  In this particular case, I imagine
> automation does not contradict - nor detract from - the manual/human touch.
> >
> > As shared, the very specific use case I had in mind was to support -->
> https://news.apache.org/foundation/entry/the-asf-launches-firstasfcontribution-campaign
> ...  I wanted to send a message thanking for someone's first PR merge, and
> encourage them to fill out the form ( while that campaign is active.  In
> that case, I did imagine a static [ meaning hardcoded, non-changing ]
> message that prompts them at the moment that they make their real first
> code contribution [ as it gets merged ], since that would be most relevant
> and immediate feedback.
> >
> > If we think overkill, no problem either.  If an issue with choosing to
> use a bot, vs a GH action - I can also spend time to create a custom GH
> Action that accommodates that.  But, that might not be worthwhile if the
> discussed use case isn't functionality we even want as part of the project.
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 12:28 PM Robert Bradshaw 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 10:59 AM Kenneth Knowles 
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Agree with Robert here. The human connection is important. Can we
> have a behaviorbot that reminds the reviewer to be extra welcoming up
> front, and then thankful afterwards, instead? :-)
> >>
> >> +1
> >>
> >> > That said, a bot comment would at least state our intention of being
> welcoming and grateful, even if we then do not live up to it perfectly. It
> isn't very different than having it in the PR template or
> https://beam.apache.org/contribute/ or CONTRIBUTING.md which GitHub
> presents to first time contributors. I tend to favor static text that can
> be referred to over dynamic text posted by code in special circumstances.
> But I think hitting this from all angles, for different sorts of people in
> the world, is fine, if the maintenance burden is very low (which it appears
> to be)
> >>
> >> I think the primary value in such a bot is to set expectations/inform
> >> the contributor of something they might not know but is relevant to
> >> their action. Otherwise, I am more in favor of static text somewhere
> >> they're sure to encounter it (and there are benefits to doing it
> >> before they create a PR, e.g. as part of a template, rather than
> >> after).
> >>
> >>
> >> > On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 10:01 AM Robert Burke 
> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> I can't speak for all committers but I'm always aware when it's
> someone's first time contributing to beam (the First Time Contributor badge
> is instrumental here), and manually thank them and welcome them to Beam.
> >> >>
> >> >> Seems more meaningful for the merging comitter to do it rather than
> an automated process.
> >> >>
> >> >> Maybe i just have bad experiences with automated phone trees
> >> >>
> >> >> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023, 9:02 AM Danny McCormick via dev <
> dev@beam.apache.org> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> If the merge message is a key part of this then I'm fine using
> behaviorbot (though I think a PMC member would need to install it, I don't
> have the right permission set).
> >> >>>
> >> >>> > I'd also be happy to leverage first-interaction for everything it
> can do, and only use welcome-bot for the things that aren't met elsewhere [
> also happy to eventually remove welcome-bot, ex: after that ASF campaign or
> once a suitable off-the-shelf replacement comes along ]
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I don't think we should do this, there's not really a benefit
> gained if we're still using welcome-bot.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> > @Danny McCormick - any idea whether there is another tool that
> can help with messaging on first-pr-merge that we'd be more happy with [ I
> can search around some if that's the path ]?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> My best alternative would be actions/first-interaction for first
> issues/prs opened and a custom workflow using an if/else and
> actions/comment-pull-request for the pr merge comment, that is probably
> more trouble than it is worth though (>10 lines of code for something that
> can just be config).
> >> >>>
> >> >>> > And/or since I imagine you might know GH Action internals [ IIRC
> you had worked with/for that organization ] better than me at the moment,
> do you think that's functionality that could straightforwardly be added to
> first-interaction [ if they would accept a PR ]
> >> >>>
> >> >>> This wouldn't be too hard codewise, but the team hasn't been
> espec

Re: new contributor messaging: behaviorbot/welcome

[Austin Bennett]

A PR: https://github.com/apache/beam/pull/25586

text could likely be improved ( open to suggestions/changes ), but this
captures at least the intent.

For this to work, we need to install the bot as also mentioned in the PR.



On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 6:02 PM Robert Burke  wrote:

> I agree that the bot is better than nothing at all.
>
> +1 to getting a PR with messaging out for review.
>
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023, 5:29 PM Robert Bradshaw via dev 
> wrote:
>
>> FWIW, I'm generally in favor of such a bot. I think it really boils
>> down to a concrete proposal of what the content (and triggers) would
>> be.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 1:36 PM Austin Bennett
>>  wrote:
>> >
>> > It is fantastic if generally able to address welcoming newcomers
>> manually [ @Robert Burke ! ] .  Community communication, human connection [
>> ex: community > code ] ideal!!  In this particular case, I imagine
>> automation does not contradict - nor detract from - the manual/human touch.
>> >
>> > As shared, the very specific use case I had in mind was to support -->
>> https://news.apache.org/foundation/entry/the-asf-launches-firstasfcontribution-campaign
>> ...  I wanted to send a message thanking for someone's first PR merge, and
>> encourage them to fill out the form ( while that campaign is active.  In
>> that case, I did imagine a static [ meaning hardcoded, non-changing ]
>> message that prompts them at the moment that they make their real first
>> code contribution [ as it gets merged ], since that would be most relevant
>> and immediate feedback.
>> >
>> > If we think overkill, no problem either.  If an issue with choosing to
>> use a bot, vs a GH action - I can also spend time to create a custom GH
>> Action that accommodates that.  But, that might not be worthwhile if the
>> discussed use case isn't functionality we even want as part of the project.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 12:28 PM Robert Bradshaw 
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 10:59 AM Kenneth Knowles 
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Agree with Robert here. The human connection is important. Can we
>> have a behaviorbot that reminds the reviewer to be extra welcoming up
>> front, and then thankful afterwards, instead? :-)
>> >>
>> >> +1
>> >>
>> >> > That said, a bot comment would at least state our intention of being
>> welcoming and grateful, even if we then do not live up to it perfectly. It
>> isn't very different than having it in the PR template or
>> https://beam.apache.org/contribute/ or CONTRIBUTING.md which GitHub
>> presents to first time contributors. I tend to favor static text that can
>> be referred to over dynamic text posted by code in special circumstances.
>> But I think hitting this from all angles, for different sorts of people in
>> the world, is fine, if the maintenance burden is very low (which it appears
>> to be)
>> >>
>> >> I think the primary value in such a bot is to set expectations/inform
>> >> the contributor of something they might not know but is relevant to
>> >> their action. Otherwise, I am more in favor of static text somewhere
>> >> they're sure to encounter it (and there are benefits to doing it
>> >> before they create a PR, e.g. as part of a template, rather than
>> >> after).
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 10:01 AM Robert Burke 
>> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I can't speak for all committers but I'm always aware when it's
>> someone's first time contributing to beam (the First Time Contributor badge
>> is instrumental here), and manually thank them and welcome them to Beam.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Seems more meaningful for the merging comitter to do it rather than
>> an automated process.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Maybe i just have bad experiences with automated phone trees
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023, 9:02 AM Danny McCormick via dev <
>> dev@beam.apache.org> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> If the merge message is a key part of this then I'm fine using
>> behaviorbot (though I think a PMC member would need to install it, I don't
>> have the right permission set).
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> > I'd also be happy to leverage first-interaction for everything
>> it can do, and only use welcome-bot for the things that aren't met
>> elsewhere [ also happy to eventually remove welcome-bot, ex: after that ASF
>> campaign or once a suitable off-the-shelf replacement comes along ]
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I don't think we should do this, there's not really a benefit
>> gained if we're still using welcome-bot.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> > @Danny McCormick - any idea whether there is another tool that
>> can help with messaging on first-pr-merge that we'd be more happy with [ I
>> can search around some if that's the path ]?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> My best alternative would be actions/first-interaction for first
>> issues/prs opened and a custom workflow using an if/else and
>> actions/comment-pull-request for the pr merge comment, that is probably
>> more trouble than it is worth though (>10 lines of code for something that
>> can just 

Re: new contributor messaging: behaviorbot/welcome

[Austin Bennett]

Nudge on https://github.com/apache/beam/pull/25586 ...

Can a PMC member install the bot [ or work with infra to make that happen,
ex: via https://github.com/apps/welcome/installations/new ]?  I'd be happy
to, but do not believe I have those permissions - do advise if I should
message/create-tickets and copy any individual from PMC specifically.  Once
that's done, we can merge the code for the bot to be configured - imagining
that is a better second step, so we do not have code in the codebase that
doesn't do anything.


On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 8:42 PM Austin Bennett  wrote:

> A PR: https://github.com/apache/beam/pull/25586
>
> text could likely be improved ( open to suggestions/changes ), but this
> captures at least the intent.
>
> For this to work, we need to install the bot as also mentioned in the PR.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 6:02 PM Robert Burke  wrote:
>
>> I agree that the bot is better than nothing at all.
>>
>> +1 to getting a PR with messaging out for review.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023, 5:29 PM Robert Bradshaw via dev <
>> dev@beam.apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> FWIW, I'm generally in favor of such a bot. I think it really boils
>>> down to a concrete proposal of what the content (and triggers) would
>>> be.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 1:36 PM Austin Bennett
>>>  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > It is fantastic if generally able to address welcoming newcomers
>>> manually [ @Robert Burke ! ] .  Community communication, human connection [
>>> ex: community > code ] ideal!!  In this particular case, I imagine
>>> automation does not contradict - nor detract from - the manual/human touch.
>>> >
>>> > As shared, the very specific use case I had in mind was to support -->
>>> https://news.apache.org/foundation/entry/the-asf-launches-firstasfcontribution-campaign
>>> ...  I wanted to send a message thanking for someone's first PR merge, and
>>> encourage them to fill out the form ( while that campaign is active.  In
>>> that case, I did imagine a static [ meaning hardcoded, non-changing ]
>>> message that prompts them at the moment that they make their real first
>>> code contribution [ as it gets merged ], since that would be most relevant
>>> and immediate feedback.
>>> >
>>> > If we think overkill, no problem either.  If an issue with choosing to
>>> use a bot, vs a GH action - I can also spend time to create a custom GH
>>> Action that accommodates that.  But, that might not be worthwhile if the
>>> discussed use case isn't functionality we even want as part of the project.
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 12:28 PM Robert Bradshaw 
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 10:59 AM Kenneth Knowles 
>>> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Agree with Robert here. The human connection is important. Can we
>>> have a behaviorbot that reminds the reviewer to be extra welcoming up
>>> front, and then thankful afterwards, instead? :-)
>>> >>
>>> >> +1
>>> >>
>>> >> > That said, a bot comment would at least state our intention of
>>> being welcoming and grateful, even if we then do not live up to it
>>> perfectly. It isn't very different than having it in the PR template or
>>> https://beam.apache.org/contribute/ or CONTRIBUTING.md which GitHub
>>> presents to first time contributors. I tend to favor static text that can
>>> be referred to over dynamic text posted by code in special circumstances.
>>> But I think hitting this from all angles, for different sorts of people in
>>> the world, is fine, if the maintenance burden is very low (which it appears
>>> to be)
>>> >>
>>> >> I think the primary value in such a bot is to set expectations/inform
>>> >> the contributor of something they might not know but is relevant to
>>> >> their action. Otherwise, I am more in favor of static text somewhere
>>> >> they're sure to encounter it (and there are benefits to doing it
>>> >> before they create a PR, e.g. as part of a template, rather than
>>> >> after).
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> > On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 10:01 AM Robert Burke 
>>> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I can't speak for all committers but I'm always aware when it's
>>> someone's first time contributing to beam (the First Time Contributor badge
>>> is instrumental here), and manually thank them and welcome them to Beam.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Seems more meaningful for the merging comitter to do it rather
>>> than an automated process.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Maybe i just have bad experiences with automated phone trees
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023, 9:02 AM Danny McCormick via dev <
>>> dev@beam.apache.org> wrote:
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> If the merge message is a key part of this then I'm fine using
>>> behaviorbot (though I think a PMC member would need to install it, I don't
>>> have the right permission set).
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> > I'd also be happy to leverage first-interaction for everything
>>> it can do, and only use welcome-bot for the things that aren't met
>>> elsewhere [ also happy to eventually remove welcome-bot, ex: after that ASF
>>> campaign or