Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

[Jacob Champion]

On 12/20/2016 09:51 PM, Alex Harui wrote:

I (and maybe others) want to eliminate the argument that the response rate
was too low to be used to draw conclusions.


I agree; this was one of my first thoughts when I saw the survey 
response rate.


--Jacob


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Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

[Alex Harui]

On 12/20/16, 6:47 PM, "Matthew Sacks"  wrote:

>Alex, what does this have anything to do with diversity?

I (and maybe others) want to eliminate the argument that the response rate
was too low to be used to draw conclusions.  See [1].

Thinking about this more, we might also want to factor in any committer
who sent an email on an ASF mailing list.  Maybe JIRA as well?  That would
give us a rough number of folks on committers@ who are active.  Sure,
someone who wouldn't be considered active under this criteria could have
still filled out the survey, but it seems like as good a number as any.


Just a thought,
-Alex

[1] https://www.surveygizmo.com/survey-blog/survey-response-rates/

Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

[Matthew Sacks]

Alex, what does this have anything to do with diversity?

I think the main point here is Sharan's survey results and what that data
means for the ASF and its future.

To me it shows a great deal of opportunity to expand the influence of the
ASF in it's general rol of software stewardship, and policy as well.

The data shows to me an opportunity to include and outreach, which is key
to the ASF's survival (corporate donations come and go, commmitters, the
best ones [Chairs, Board Members, and Members] are selected from the
community of committers based on their Merit; one of the core principles I
have learned from my brief time being involved in the ASF starting back in
2008 or so.

With all of the puffery out of the way, myself included, let's focus now on
*including* the people listed in the survey who want to make a
contribution. Now that we have the data we can include the folks who seem
misrepresented or under-represented in the ASF.

Additionally, I believe it imperative to use *our own software (Mahout -
machine learning) to better identify such candidates using Machine learning
software from the ASF. If our own software cannot solve this problem, a
survey should not have been taken in the first place.

-M



On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 6:30 PM Alex Harui  wrote:

>
>
>
>
> On 12/20/16, 8:11 AM, "Rich Bowen"  wrote:
>
>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >On 12/19/2016 08:36 AM, Sharan F wrote:
>
> >> Hello Everyone
>
> >>
>
> >> A big thank you to everyone that has helped or participated in getting
>
> >> the Committer Diversity Survey out, and also to all the committers that
>
> >> responded to the survey. It has been really good to be able to collect
>
> >> this information and see what it tells us about our committer base.
>
> >>
>
> >> I've loaded the main data and graphs from the survey onto the Community
>
> >> Development wiki (see link below)
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/ASF+Committer+Diversit
>
> >>y+Survey+-+2016
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> In total we received 765 responses (out of a 5861 committer base at the
>
> >> time the survey was run) so around a 13% response rate.
>
> >
>
> >It would be useful to pursue Niclas' assertion that most of our
>
> >registered committers are inactive. I'd think that if we define
>
> >"inactive" in some measurable way, we could determine some actual
>
> >numbers around that.
>
> >
>
> >Either way, though, given how anti-survey we have been in the past, 13%
>
> >actually sounds like a pretty good response rate to me.
>
>
>
> How hard would it be to generate the count of all apache ids that
>
> committed to any ASF repo in the last N months?
>
>
>
> -Alex
>
>
>
>

Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

[William A Rowe Jr]

I have the awk scripts to do that all against svn logs.

Since the introduction of git-based projects, either as a submission
mechanism or primary tool, it becomes much less comprehensive.


On Dec 20, 2016 20:44, "Daniel Gruno"  wrote:

> On 12/21/2016 03:30 AM, Alex Harui wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 12/20/16, 8:11 AM, "Rich Bowen"  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On 12/19/2016 08:36 AM, Sharan F wrote:
> >>> Hello Everyone
> >>>
> >>> A big thank you to everyone that has helped or participated in getting
> >>> the Committer Diversity Survey out, and also to all the committers that
> >>> responded to the survey. It has been really good to be able to collect
> >>> this information and see what it tells us about our committer base.
> >>>
> >>> I've loaded the main data and graphs from the survey onto the Community
> >>> Development wiki (see link below)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/ASF+
> Committer+Diversit
> >>> y+Survey+-+2016
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> In total we received 765 responses (out of a 5861 committer base at the
> >>> time the survey was run) so around a 13% response rate.
> >>
> >> It would be useful to pursue Niclas' assertion that most of our
> >> registered committers are inactive. I'd think that if we define
> >> "inactive" in some measurable way, we could determine some actual
> >> numbers around that.
> >>
> >> Either way, though, given how anti-survey we have been in the past, 13%
> >> actually sounds like a pretty good response rate to me.
> >
> > How hard would it be to generate the count of all apache ids that
> > committed to any ASF repo in the last N months?
>
> We have access to that, both on a weekly, monthly, quarterly, yearly
> basis :)
>
> Question then is, how many of the active ones filled out the survey, and
> how many inactive. Maybe next time we'll have a "when did you last
> contribute to an ASF project" question :)
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
> >
> > -Alex
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
> >
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>
>

Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

[Daniel Gruno]

On 12/21/2016 03:30 AM, Alex Harui wrote:
> 
> 
> On 12/20/16, 8:11 AM, "Rich Bowen"  wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> On 12/19/2016 08:36 AM, Sharan F wrote:
>>> Hello Everyone
>>>
>>> A big thank you to everyone that has helped or participated in getting
>>> the Committer Diversity Survey out, and also to all the committers that
>>> responded to the survey. It has been really good to be able to collect
>>> this information and see what it tells us about our committer base.
>>>
>>> I've loaded the main data and graphs from the survey onto the Community
>>> Development wiki (see link below)
>>>
>>>
>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/ASF+Committer+Diversit
>>> y+Survey+-+2016
>>>
>>>
>>> In total we received 765 responses (out of a 5861 committer base at the
>>> time the survey was run) so around a 13% response rate.
>>
>> It would be useful to pursue Niclas' assertion that most of our
>> registered committers are inactive. I'd think that if we define
>> "inactive" in some measurable way, we could determine some actual
>> numbers around that.
>>
>> Either way, though, given how anti-survey we have been in the past, 13%
>> actually sounds like a pretty good response rate to me.
> 
> How hard would it be to generate the count of all apache ids that
> committed to any ASF repo in the last N months?

We have access to that, both on a weekly, monthly, quarterly, yearly
basis :)

Question then is, how many of the active ones filled out the survey, and
how many inactive. Maybe next time we'll have a "when did you last
contribute to an ASF project" question :)

With regards,
Daniel.

> 
> -Alex
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
> 


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Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

[Alex Harui]

On 12/20/16, 8:11 AM, "Rich Bowen"  wrote:

>
>
>On 12/19/2016 08:36 AM, Sharan F wrote:
>> Hello Everyone
>> 
>> A big thank you to everyone that has helped or participated in getting
>> the Committer Diversity Survey out, and also to all the committers that
>> responded to the survey. It has been really good to be able to collect
>> this information and see what it tells us about our committer base.
>> 
>> I've loaded the main data and graphs from the survey onto the Community
>> Development wiki (see link below)
>> 
>> 
>>https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/ASF+Committer+Diversit
>>y+Survey+-+2016
>> 
>> 
>> In total we received 765 responses (out of a 5861 committer base at the
>> time the survey was run) so around a 13% response rate.
>
>It would be useful to pursue Niclas' assertion that most of our
>registered committers are inactive. I'd think that if we define
>"inactive" in some measurable way, we could determine some actual
>numbers around that.
>
>Either way, though, given how anti-survey we have been in the past, 13%
>actually sounds like a pretty good response rate to me.

How hard would it be to generate the count of all apache ids that
committed to any ASF repo in the last N months?

-Alex

Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

[Karen Bryant]

Unscribe

From: Pierre Smits 
Sent: 20 December 2016 17:01:15
To: dev@community.apache.org
Subject: Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

My apologies for leaving out:

[1]
https://s3.amazonaws.com/files-dist/AnnualReports/ASFAnnualReport-FY2015-2016FINAL.pdf

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

ORRTIZ.COM 
OFBiz based solutions & services

OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 5:55 PM, Pierre Smits 
wrote:

> I, for one, thank Sharan for the itch she scratched, and compliment her on
> the result.
>
> Many talk politics (sharing their viewpoint) here in this thread, and
> elsewhere in this community. If that is the itch that needs to be
> scratched, then that is fine by me too...
>
> But in the near future (when all has been digested) we must move on. The
> first survey is a good start. But it should not be the end. How can we
> improve community development when we don't measure regularly.  Coming to
> the data collected has been (to me, sharing my viewpoint, divulging my
> politics) a feel good exercise: discussions in public up front (to get
> buy-in, to please the majority, the ones regarded as important, etc.)
> followed by defending the why afterwards (and elsewhere).
>
> So, to cut to the chase: who of the officers the ASF will sponsor the
> next? Who will step up and say: 'I will have the executors back and you
> (the executor) can concentrate on the tasks at hand without being
> distracted'?
>
> Annually the ASF put in a lot of effort to provide the greater community
> (3rd parties, sponsors, friends, however you want to call them) with an
> Annual Report [1]. This kind of repeated activity belongs in the set of
> means to provide insights in the Community (Development) section.'
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> ORRTIZ.COM 
> OFBiz based solutions & services
>
> OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
> http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
>
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 5:11 PM, Rich Bowen  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 12/19/2016 08:36 AM, Sharan F wrote:
>> > Hello Everyone
>> >
>> > A big thank you to everyone that has helped or participated in getting
>> > the Committer Diversity Survey out, and also to all the committers that
>> > responded to the survey. It has been really good to be able to collect
>> > this information and see what it tells us about our committer base.
>> >
>> > I've loaded the main data and graphs from the survey onto the Community
>> > Development wiki (see link below)
>> >
>> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/ASF+Commi
>> tter+Diversity+Survey+-+2016
>> >
>> >
>> > In total we received 765 responses (out of a 5861 committer base at the
>> > time the survey was run) so around a 13% response rate.
>>
>> It would be useful to pursue Niclas' assertion that most of our
>> registered committers are inactive. I'd think that if we define
>> "inactive" in some measurable way, we could determine some actual
>> numbers around that.
>>
>> Either way, though, given how anti-survey we have been in the past, 13%
>> actually sounds like a pretty good response rate to me.
>>
>> > We also got 111 feedback comments of which 29 did not give their
>> > permission to share or from quote their comments.
>> >
>> > I've categorised all the comments into various themes / topics with the
>> > main ones as follows:
>> >
>> > 1. Suggestions for improvements within the ASF
>>
>> I look forward to seeing these. I hope that we have some things in there
>> that are actionable, and that we can find volunteers to participate in.
>>
>> Most of the conversations that I've had with people that have led
>> diversity efforts in other open source communities answer "what worked?"
>> with "lots and lots of hard work, for a really long time."
>>
>> So, thanks so much for getting this process started again. It's long
>> overdue, and we appreciate your hard work here.
>>
>>
>> > 2. Suggestions for improvements to the survey (or any future ones)
>> > 3. Thanks / positive feedback about the ASF and/or survey
>> > 4. Feedback and ideas around diversity
>> >
>> > Next steps will be:
>> >
>> >  * Continue to analyse the information and identify any potential
>> >Community Development related actions
>> >  * Start discussion threads on the various themes and topics raised to
>> >see if they will result in additional actions
>> >  * Discuss feedback and diversity ideas and if necessary, integrate
>> >into diversity strategy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen
>> http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
>>
>>
>

Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

[Pierre Smits]

My apologies for leaving out:

[1]
https://s3.amazonaws.com/files-dist/AnnualReports/ASFAnnualReport-FY2015-2016FINAL.pdf

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

ORRTIZ.COM 
OFBiz based solutions & services

OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 5:55 PM, Pierre Smits 
wrote:

> I, for one, thank Sharan for the itch she scratched, and compliment her on
> the result.
>
> Many talk politics (sharing their viewpoint) here in this thread, and
> elsewhere in this community. If that is the itch that needs to be
> scratched, then that is fine by me too...
>
> But in the near future (when all has been digested) we must move on. The
> first survey is a good start. But it should not be the end. How can we
> improve community development when we don't measure regularly.  Coming to
> the data collected has been (to me, sharing my viewpoint, divulging my
> politics) a feel good exercise: discussions in public up front (to get
> buy-in, to please the majority, the ones regarded as important, etc.)
> followed by defending the why afterwards (and elsewhere).
>
> So, to cut to the chase: who of the officers the ASF will sponsor the
> next? Who will step up and say: 'I will have the executors back and you
> (the executor) can concentrate on the tasks at hand without being
> distracted'?
>
> Annually the ASF put in a lot of effort to provide the greater community
> (3rd parties, sponsors, friends, however you want to call them) with an
> Annual Report [1]. This kind of repeated activity belongs in the set of
> means to provide insights in the Community (Development) section.'
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> ORRTIZ.COM 
> OFBiz based solutions & services
>
> OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
> http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
>
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 5:11 PM, Rich Bowen  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 12/19/2016 08:36 AM, Sharan F wrote:
>> > Hello Everyone
>> >
>> > A big thank you to everyone that has helped or participated in getting
>> > the Committer Diversity Survey out, and also to all the committers that
>> > responded to the survey. It has been really good to be able to collect
>> > this information and see what it tells us about our committer base.
>> >
>> > I've loaded the main data and graphs from the survey onto the Community
>> > Development wiki (see link below)
>> >
>> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/ASF+Commi
>> tter+Diversity+Survey+-+2016
>> >
>> >
>> > In total we received 765 responses (out of a 5861 committer base at the
>> > time the survey was run) so around a 13% response rate.
>>
>> It would be useful to pursue Niclas' assertion that most of our
>> registered committers are inactive. I'd think that if we define
>> "inactive" in some measurable way, we could determine some actual
>> numbers around that.
>>
>> Either way, though, given how anti-survey we have been in the past, 13%
>> actually sounds like a pretty good response rate to me.
>>
>> > We also got 111 feedback comments of which 29 did not give their
>> > permission to share or from quote their comments.
>> >
>> > I've categorised all the comments into various themes / topics with the
>> > main ones as follows:
>> >
>> > 1. Suggestions for improvements within the ASF
>>
>> I look forward to seeing these. I hope that we have some things in there
>> that are actionable, and that we can find volunteers to participate in.
>>
>> Most of the conversations that I've had with people that have led
>> diversity efforts in other open source communities answer "what worked?"
>> with "lots and lots of hard work, for a really long time."
>>
>> So, thanks so much for getting this process started again. It's long
>> overdue, and we appreciate your hard work here.
>>
>>
>> > 2. Suggestions for improvements to the survey (or any future ones)
>> > 3. Thanks / positive feedback about the ASF and/or survey
>> > 4. Feedback and ideas around diversity
>> >
>> > Next steps will be:
>> >
>> >  * Continue to analyse the information and identify any potential
>> >Community Development related actions
>> >  * Start discussion threads on the various themes and topics raised to
>> >see if they will result in additional actions
>> >  * Discuss feedback and diversity ideas and if necessary, integrate
>> >into diversity strategy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen
>> http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
>>
>>
>

Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

[Pierre Smits]

I, for one, thank Sharan for the itch she scratched, and compliment her on
the result.

Many talk politics (sharing their viewpoint) here in this thread, and
elsewhere in this community. If that is the itch that needs to be
scratched, then that is fine by me too...

But in the near future (when all has been digested) we must move on. The
first survey is a good start. But it should not be the end. How can we
improve community development when we don't measure regularly.  Coming to
the data collected has been (to me, sharing my viewpoint, divulging my
politics) a feel good exercise: discussions in public up front (to get
buy-in, to please the majority, the ones regarded as important, etc.)
followed by defending the why afterwards (and elsewhere).

So, to cut to the chase: who of the officers the ASF will sponsor the next?
Who will step up and say: 'I will have the executors back and you (the
executor) can concentrate on the tasks at hand without being distracted'?

Annually the ASF put in a lot of effort to provide the greater community
(3rd parties, sponsors, friends, however you want to call them) with an
Annual Report [1]. This kind of repeated activity belongs in the set of
means to provide insights in the Community (Development) section.'

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

ORRTIZ.COM 
OFBiz based solutions & services

OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 5:11 PM, Rich Bowen  wrote:

>
>
> On 12/19/2016 08:36 AM, Sharan F wrote:
> > Hello Everyone
> >
> > A big thank you to everyone that has helped or participated in getting
> > the Committer Diversity Survey out, and also to all the committers that
> > responded to the survey. It has been really good to be able to collect
> > this information and see what it tells us about our committer base.
> >
> > I've loaded the main data and graphs from the survey onto the Community
> > Development wiki (see link below)
> >
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/ASF+
> Committer+Diversity+Survey+-+2016
> >
> >
> > In total we received 765 responses (out of a 5861 committer base at the
> > time the survey was run) so around a 13% response rate.
>
> It would be useful to pursue Niclas' assertion that most of our
> registered committers are inactive. I'd think that if we define
> "inactive" in some measurable way, we could determine some actual
> numbers around that.
>
> Either way, though, given how anti-survey we have been in the past, 13%
> actually sounds like a pretty good response rate to me.
>
> > We also got 111 feedback comments of which 29 did not give their
> > permission to share or from quote their comments.
> >
> > I've categorised all the comments into various themes / topics with the
> > main ones as follows:
> >
> > 1. Suggestions for improvements within the ASF
>
> I look forward to seeing these. I hope that we have some things in there
> that are actionable, and that we can find volunteers to participate in.
>
> Most of the conversations that I've had with people that have led
> diversity efforts in other open source communities answer "what worked?"
> with "lots and lots of hard work, for a really long time."
>
> So, thanks so much for getting this process started again. It's long
> overdue, and we appreciate your hard work here.
>
>
> > 2. Suggestions for improvements to the survey (or any future ones)
> > 3. Thanks / positive feedback about the ASF and/or survey
> > 4. Feedback and ideas around diversity
> >
> > Next steps will be:
> >
> >  * Continue to analyse the information and identify any potential
> >Community Development related actions
> >  * Start discussion threads on the various themes and topics raised to
> >see if they will result in additional actions
> >  * Discuss feedback and diversity ideas and if necessary, integrate
> >into diversity strategy
>
>
>
>
> --
> Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen
> http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon
>
>

Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

[Rich Bowen]

On 12/19/2016 08:36 AM, Sharan F wrote:
> Hello Everyone
> 
> A big thank you to everyone that has helped or participated in getting
> the Committer Diversity Survey out, and also to all the committers that
> responded to the survey. It has been really good to be able to collect
> this information and see what it tells us about our committer base.
> 
> I've loaded the main data and graphs from the survey onto the Community
> Development wiki (see link below)
> 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/ASF+Committer+Diversity+Survey+-+2016
> 
> 
> In total we received 765 responses (out of a 5861 committer base at the
> time the survey was run) so around a 13% response rate.

It would be useful to pursue Niclas' assertion that most of our
registered committers are inactive. I'd think that if we define
"inactive" in some measurable way, we could determine some actual
numbers around that.

Either way, though, given how anti-survey we have been in the past, 13%
actually sounds like a pretty good response rate to me.

> We also got 111 feedback comments of which 29 did not give their
> permission to share or from quote their comments.
> 
> I've categorised all the comments into various themes / topics with the
> main ones as follows:
> 
> 1. Suggestions for improvements within the ASF

I look forward to seeing these. I hope that we have some things in there
that are actionable, and that we can find volunteers to participate in.

Most of the conversations that I've had with people that have led
diversity efforts in other open source communities answer "what worked?"
with "lots and lots of hard work, for a really long time."

So, thanks so much for getting this process started again. It's long
overdue, and we appreciate your hard work here.


> 2. Suggestions for improvements to the survey (or any future ones)
> 3. Thanks / positive feedback about the ASF and/or survey
> 4. Feedback and ideas around diversity
> 
> Next steps will be:
> 
>  * Continue to analyse the information and identify any potential
>Community Development related actions
>  * Start discussion threads on the various themes and topics raised to
>see if they will result in additional actions
>  * Discuss feedback and diversity ideas and if necessary, integrate
>into diversity strategy




-- 
Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen
http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

[Rich Bowen]

On 12/19/2016 11:39 PM, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> 2. Are there similar surveys available for say Linux Kernel, Debian or
> GNU/FSF (i.e. other low-visibility, highly technical FOSS projects) ??

Bitergia did one for the Linux Kernel:

https://blog.bitergia.com/2016/10/11/gender-diversity-analysis-of-the-linux-kernel-technical-contributions/

Daniel presented some of this data in his talk at ApacheCon in Seville
last month.

Debian has a Debian Women project - https://www.debian.org/women/ - and
I believe they've done a number of studies over the years, but I can't
find any of that data right now. However, I do know who to ask.

The FSF participates in a number of diversity outreach programs,
including Outreachy and their internship program.

PHP Women - https://phpwomen.org/ - and PyLadies -
http://www.pyladies.com/ - have been leading the charge on this for a
decade. WomenInLinux - http://www.womeninlinux.com/ - are creating
opportunities with scholarships and internships.

I feel like the questions here should be, why are we *so* far behind the
crowd? Why do we appear not to care about something that has been shown
to increase community participation, attract more kids, and build the
next generation of our community?

It seems to me that the ASF *should have* been on the leading edge of
this wave, not struggling to catch up. This is not politics. This is
making free software more mainstream - something that we're supposed to
be good at. We pride ourselves at being "business friendly" but act as
though actual progress in that direction is "politics".

And we're really only at the "find out" stage of things, and the
brodudes like this Peter character are already climbing out of their
caves to shout down even looking into the situation. It all makes me
ask, in genuine perplexity, what is so appealing about the monoculture
status quo that these folks want to cling to it so hard?

So, back to the point.

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/ASF+Committer+Diversity+Survey+-+2016

Sharan has put together some info. This is science, not politics. She
got a response from a statistically significant percentage of our
community - even more if you take Niclas' assertion ("Most of the
registered committers have been inactive for years") at face value. This
is good solid hard data.

Not politics.

Thanks, Sharan, for your work. What do you view as our next steps? How
can we help?

-- 
Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen
http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon



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Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

[Rich Bowen]

On 12/19/2016 11:39 PM, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> 3. The survey was targeted at committers. Shouldn't we also find out who
> "uses" our software. After all, by-and-large, we attract our committers
> from our users ("who has an itch to scratch"). That is a primary point of
> "conversion" and if the selection pool is not much different from the stats
> that you have now collected... (yes, speculation) ... does that mean we are
> done? It is also much harder to reach that group.

Yes, that would be awesome. And, you're right, they're harder to reach,
primarily because we really don't know who they are.

Do you envision doing a survey per project (perhaps using the users@
lists?) or are you thinking of doing a Foundation-wide survey? That
would be quite an ambitious undertaking. Let me know how I can help you
in this effort.

--Rich

-- 
Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen
http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon



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Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

[Rich Bowen]

I don't know about anybody else, but I'm finding deep, deep irony in the
signature quote you chose to append to your message.


On 12/19/2016 05:45 PM, Peter West wrote:

> Why does the ASF give a tinker’s damn about diversity? Why are scarce 
> resources being devoted to it? Seriously.
> 
> —
> Peter West
> p...@pbw.id.au
> “I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.”

Peter, you can choose to spend your so-called "scarce resources" how you
like, and get the hell out of the way and let other people spend their
resources how they like.

I would recommend, for example, that you spend a little of your scarce
resources reading the discussion that's been going on, on this list, for
the last several months, rather than asking insulting questions that
have been thoroughly answered, repeatedly, with good hard sciencey answers.

Sharan is doing good hard work here that is for the benefit of the
long-term viability of the Foundation. If you don't want to participate
in that effort, you know where the door is.


> 
>> On 19 Dec 2016, at 11:36 pm, Sharan F  wrote:
>>
>> Hello Everyone
>>
>> A big thank you to everyone that has helped or participated in getting the 
>> Committer Diversity Survey out, and also to all the committers that 
>> responded to the survey. It has been really good to be able to collect this 
>> information and see what it tells us about our committer base. 
>>
>> I've loaded the main data and graphs from the survey onto the Community 
>> Development wiki (see link below)
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/ASF+Committer+Diversity+Survey+-+2016
>>
>> In total we received 765 responses (out of a 5861 committer base at the time 
>> the survey was run) so around a 13% response rate.  
>>
>> We also got 111 feedback comments of which 29 did not give their permission 
>> to share or from quote their comments.
>>
>> I've categorised all the comments into various themes / topics with the main 
>> ones as follows:
>>  • Suggestions for improvements within the ASF
>>  • Suggestions for improvements to the survey (or any future ones)
>>  • Thanks / positive feedback about the ASF and/or survey
>>  • Feedback and ideas around diversity
>> Next steps will be:
>>  • Continue to analyse the information and identify any potential 
>> Community Development related actions 
>>  • Start discussion threads on the various themes and topics raised to 
>> see if they will result in additional actions
>>  • Discuss feedback and diversity ideas and if necessary, integrate into 
>> diversity strategy
>> Thanks
>> Sharan
>>
>>
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
> 


-- 
Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com - @rbowen
http://apachecon.com/ - @apachecon



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Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

[Matthew Sacks]

Perhaps because it’s future depends on it?

> On Dec 19, 2016, at 2:45 PM, Peter West  wrote:
> 
> Why does the ASF give a tinker’s damn about diversity? Why are scarce 
> resources being devoted to it? Seriously.
> 
> —
> Peter West
> p...@pbw.id.au 
> “I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.”
> 
>> On 19 Dec 2016, at 11:36 pm, Sharan F > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Everyone
>> 
>> A big thank you to everyone that has helped or participated in getting the 
>> Committer Diversity Survey out, and also to all the committers that 
>> responded to the survey. It has been really good to be able to collect this 
>> information and see what it tells us about our committer base. 
>> 
>> I've loaded the main data and graphs from the survey onto the Community 
>> Development wiki (see link below)
>> 
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COMDEV/ASF+Committer+Diversity+Survey+-+2016
>> 
>> In total we received 765 responses (out of a 5861 committer base at the time 
>> the survey was run) so around a 13% response rate.  
>> 
>> We also got 111 feedback comments of which 29 did not give their permission 
>> to share or from quote their comments.
>> 
>> I've categorised all the comments into various themes / topics with the main 
>> ones as follows:
>>  • Suggestions for improvements within the ASF
>>  • Suggestions for improvements to the survey (or any future ones)
>>  • Thanks / positive feedback about the ASF and/or survey
>>  • Feedback and ideas around diversity
>> Next steps will be:
>>  • Continue to analyse the information and identify any potential 
>> Community Development related actions 
>>  • Start discussion threads on the various themes and topics raised to 
>> see if they will result in additional actions
>>  • Discuss feedback and diversity ideas and if necessary, integrate into 
>> diversity strategy
>> Thanks
>> Sharan
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org 
> 
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org 
> 

Re: Results: ASF Committer Diversity Survey

[Ignasi Barrera]

Let me just mention something said up-thread, about the ASF being about
voluntary software... It is, but is even more about communities. One of the
most important core values of the ASF is "community over code". Communities
come first, and the ASF, as a foundation, just sets the principles on top
of which communities should be developed. It does not take part on nor
control the software they produce. It is just the output of healthy
communities that happen to produce software.

Those that understand the ASF and why community over code is important will
probably agree that understanding the nature of our communities is an
important factor in determining how healthy they are and how the
foundation, as a whole, can do better to improve them. And itself.
Diversity is key in that regard, and this is the right list to develop this
kind of efforts.


On Dec 20, 2016 8:10 AM, "Karlie Parks"  wrote:

> sharon deer someone needs to take your temperature,
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 19, 2016, at 10:39 PM, Niclas Hedhman  wrote:
>
> Shawn,
> maybe, just maybe, the twitter-activists will spot this and descend on the
> ASF with vengeance, realizing that the Apache License (and all software
> that uses it) is sexist, racist and bigoted, since it doesn't prevent
> sexists, racists and other haters from using our software. And WE, the
> ASF,  do nothing about that. WE are on the side of the haters. This is the
> logic that is applied elsewhere.
> That is one of the fears _I_ have about digging in this. It is like
> searching for patents...
>
> And YES, I am on the side of free usage of the software we produce, even by
> people I am diametrically opposed to. I think it is not ASF's mission to
> determine that line in the sand. All this is a political issue, disguised
> with a "it is good for us" label, and many here look at the label and go
> "Yeah, I favor that."
>
> I hope I am wrong about ASF ending up being a target by the outside SJW
> activists, that we are too small to bother with. But let it be known, it
> has now been a predicted possibility... so don't be shocked if it happens.
>
> Sharan,
> About the numbers;
> 1. Most of the registered committers have been inactive for years, many
> have never been active in the past and was part of a bulk inclusion of
> committers via a podling coming in.
>
> 2. Are there similar surveys available for say Linux Kernel, Debian or
> GNU/FSF (i.e. other low-visibility, highly technical FOSS projects) ??
>
> 3. The survey was targeted at committers. Shouldn't we also find out who
> "uses" our software. After all, by-and-large, we attract our committers
> from our users ("who has an itch to scratch"). That is a primary point of
> "conversion" and if the selection pool is not much different from the stats
> that you have now collected... (yes, speculation) ... does that mean we are
> done? It is also much harder to reach that group.
>
> 4. When will the scrubbed raw data be available for the community?
>
>
> Cheers
> Niclas
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 11:45 AM, Shawn McKinney 
> wrote:
>
> >
> >> On Dec 19, 2016, at 8:31 PM, Peter West  wrote:
> >>
> >> The ASF has free software, freely produced by anyone who wants to put
> > his or her hand up.  Talk about “diversity” is deeply divisive, and all
> of
> > the BS that accompanies it is the antithesis of freedom.  It is the
> impulse
> > of petty totalitarians who are determined to impose their views on
> others,
> > and to marginalise and denigrate and demonise those who think…diversely.
> > Need I mention Brendan Eich here?
> >>
> >> So keep this stuff out of the ASF, please.  You are free to pursue
> > whatever other (non-software) obsessions you like in your own time, and
> > those big software houses with their diversity departments will
> accomodate
> > you at work.
> >
> > Confused by this viewpoint.  Here we have a set of statistics (thanks
> > Sharon) that provides insight into the types of people that participate.
> > If that info can then be put into use and expands our committer base
> beyond
> > the typical into the atypical we would then produce more/better software.
> > What’s wrong with that?  I see only practical usages from this but maybe
> > I’m just being naive?
> >
> > Shawn
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@community.apache.org
>
>
> --
> Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
> http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@community.apache.org
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>
>