Re: Workshop about the future of Open Source Software and Open Source Hardware

[Kai Wähner]

This would be very interesting and make sense.

Unfortunately, I am back in the US during that time, so not able to attend.

Kai

On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 11:46 AM Julian Feinauer <
j.feina...@pragmaticminds.de> wrote:

> Hey,
>
> this would probably be interesting for @Kai Wähner who is also kind of an
> Apache Guy (and wears an OSS Hat aswell!).
>
> Julian
>
> Am 07.10.19, 11:26 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" :
>
> Hi all,
>
> They already changed the wording slightly ... now they write that
> Siemens MindSphere USES a lot of Open-Source software.
> Still not happy with it being mentioned directly after the: "There are
> a lot of Open-Source platforms", but it sort of feels as if Siemens had
> pulled some strings to be mentioned here (The official Agenda doesn't even
> mention "Siemens" or "MindSphere")
>
> I just discussed this with my boss and I'll probably be going.
> Would however be great to show up there with a little (or a big)
> Apache delegation.
> The big commercial players could be showing up with quite a delegation.
> After all it's not about Apache PLC4X, but could involve a great
> portion of what Apache does.
> And especially the Panel discussions about:
>
> "Panel 2.2: Nurturing Open Source Communities
> In the backdrop of the increasing popularity and use of open source
> software, it is a paradox that many open source projects continue to
> struggle to sustain themselves. Remarkably, sustainability issues
> afflict not just the small and medium-sized project, but also some of
> the larger and well-known ones.
> The success of open source software initiatives often goes hand in
> hand with the success of their communities. So what are the success
> factors leading to a sustainable community? What are the key
> challenges open source projects face? More importantly, what can
> and should be done about the sustainability and funding issue?
> This session invites a brief discussion to identify key sustainability
> concerns, followed by two deeper debates on practical
> proposals/solutions to solve (i) Sustainability issues (ii) Funding
> issues. The session combines results and inputs from the
> Commission’s EU-FOSSA project and the Commission’s Open
> Source Observatory (OSOR)"
>
> "Panel 7: Improving openness, trust and security thanks to open
> source
> The advent of emerging technologies like Artificial Intelligence and
> block chain and the exponential increase on cybersecurity threats
> made the demand for security, trust and transparency in decision
> making as key priorities in designing ICT systems. Open source is seen
> as a mechanism to ensure such characteristics. The purpose of this
> session is to highlight the role of Open Source towards achieving
> security, trust and transparency in decision-making. What are the
> strengths but also what are the weaknesses and limitations? The
> session combines results and inputs from the Commission’s EUFOSSA
> project."
>
> Chris
>
> Am 07.10.19, 10:38 schrieb "Julian Feinauer" <
> j.feina...@pragmaticminds.de>:
>
> Hi all,
>
> sorry for being late to the party.
> I totally agree with all that has been written.
> And although I will not be able to participate I think we should
> work on having them correct that (on paper and in their minds).
> Probably we could even do that as an official statement of the ASF
> or use some contacts to other OSS initiatives.
> As I see that as a rather general matter to hijack "OSS".
>
> What do you think?
>
> Julian
>
> Am 06.10.19, 11:48 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" <
> christofer.d...@c-ware.de>:
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> Yes, that too was my impression. I remember the amount of work
> you put in here. But it seems that Siemens likes to appear open without
> actually being open for open source. That's why I contacted the organizers
> and tried to convince them to correct this paragraph and suffered that they
> invite tuely open open-source communities.
>
> I'll be discussing with my boss, if I can attend.
>
> Chris
>
> Holen Sie sich Outlook für Android
>
> 
> From: Michael Osipov 
> Sent: Saturday, October 5, 2019 6:31:01 PM
> To: dev@community.apache.org ;
> Christofer Dutz ; i...@apache.org <
> i...@apache.org>
> Subject: Re: Workshop about the future of Open Source Software
> and Open Source Hardware
>
> Am 2019-10-05 um 17:20 schrieb Christofer Dutz:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Lukasz just posted this on the plc4x slack channel mainly
> because of Siemens’ attempt to appear open:
> > “There are also B2B Open Source platforms: Siemens’
> MindSphere offers a managed open 

Re: Workshop about the future of Open Source Software and Open Source Hardware

[Christofer Dutz]

My email helped, they fixed that paragraph.

But instead of complaining via email. I think it's a better approach to 
actually attend that two day workshop and to show them how open source works. I 
mean which organization is better suited to talk about this than the ASF.

So I got a green light from my company to go. Would be great if others could 
join.

Being on the comdev PMC... Are there any objections of me not only wearing my 
iot, but also my apache comdev hat?

Anyone interested in joining in?

Chris

Holen Sie sich Outlook für Android


From: Julian Feinauer 
Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 10:28:42 AM
To: dev@community.apache.org 
Subject: Re: Workshop about the future of Open Source Software and Open Source 
Hardware

Hi all,

sorry for being late to the party.
I totally agree with all that has been written.
And although I will not be able to participate I think we should work on having 
them correct that (on paper and in their minds).
Probably we could even do that as an official statement of the ASF or use some 
contacts to other OSS initiatives.
As I see that as a rather general matter to hijack "OSS".

What do you think?

Julian

Am 06.10.19, 11:48 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" :

Hi Michael,

Yes, that too was my impression. I remember the amount of work you put in 
here. But it seems that Siemens likes to appear open without actually being 
open for open source. That's why I contacted the organizers and tried to 
convince them to correct this paragraph and suffered that they invite tuely 
open open-source communities.

I'll be discussing with my boss, if I can attend.

Chris

Holen Sie sich Outlook für Android


From: Michael Osipov 
Sent: Saturday, October 5, 2019 6:31:01 PM
To: dev@community.apache.org ; Christofer Dutz 
; i...@apache.org 
Subject: Re: Workshop about the future of Open Source Software and Open 
Source Hardware

Am 2019-10-05 um 17:20 schrieb Christofer Dutz:
> Hi,
>
> Lukasz just posted this on the plc4x slack channel mainly because of 
Siemens’ attempt to appear open:
> “There are also B2B Open Source platforms: Siemens’ MindSphere offers a 
managed open source Platform-as-a-Service for developing cross-platform 
applications” (Which it clearly is not).
>
> But when I read through the Agenda I think it might be a good idea to 
show up with a little Apache delegation:
> 
https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/news/workshop-about-future-open-source-software-and-open-source-hardware
>
> Seems to be not a Workshop where you are fuled up with some stuff, but 
where people come together to form the appearance of Open-Source in the 
Industry.

This cannot be right/true. I have tried for more than a year to engage
with DI (digital infrastructure) and utterly failed. My fellow coworker
in Nuremberg told me that we (DI) don't want to engage with the OSS
community at any kind of level. After that, I left the topic w/o any
prosperity for the company and the OSS community.

Michael




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Re: Workshop about the future of Open Source Software and Open Source Hardware

[Julian Feinauer]

Hey,

this would probably be interesting for @Kai Wähner who is also kind of an 
Apache Guy (and wears an OSS Hat aswell!).

Julian

Am 07.10.19, 11:26 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" :

Hi all,

They already changed the wording slightly ... now they write that Siemens 
MindSphere USES a lot of Open-Source software. 
Still not happy with it being mentioned directly after the: "There are a 
lot of Open-Source platforms", but it sort of feels as if Siemens had pulled 
some strings to be mentioned here (The official Agenda doesn't even mention 
"Siemens" or "MindSphere")

I just discussed this with my boss and I'll probably be going. 
Would however be great to show up there with a little (or a big) Apache 
delegation. 
The big commercial players could be showing up with quite a delegation.
After all it's not about Apache PLC4X, but could involve a great portion of 
what Apache does. 
And especially the Panel discussions about: 

"Panel 2.2: Nurturing Open Source Communities
In the backdrop of the increasing popularity and use of open source
software, it is a paradox that many open source projects continue to
struggle to sustain themselves. Remarkably, sustainability issues
afflict not just the small and medium-sized project, but also some of
the larger and well-known ones.
The success of open source software initiatives often goes hand in
hand with the success of their communities. So what are the success
factors leading to a sustainable community? What are the key
challenges open source projects face? More importantly, what can
and should be done about the sustainability and funding issue?
This session invites a brief discussion to identify key sustainability
concerns, followed by two deeper debates on practical
proposals/solutions to solve (i) Sustainability issues (ii) Funding
issues. The session combines results and inputs from the
Commission’s EU-FOSSA project and the Commission’s Open
Source Observatory (OSOR)"

"Panel 7: Improving openness, trust and security thanks to open
source
The advent of emerging technologies like Artificial Intelligence and
block chain and the exponential increase on cybersecurity threats
made the demand for security, trust and transparency in decision
making as key priorities in designing ICT systems. Open source is seen
as a mechanism to ensure such characteristics. The purpose of this
session is to highlight the role of Open Source towards achieving
security, trust and transparency in decision-making. What are the
strengths but also what are the weaknesses and limitations? The
session combines results and inputs from the Commission’s EUFOSSA project."

Chris

Am 07.10.19, 10:38 schrieb "Julian Feinauer" :

Hi all,

sorry for being late to the party.
I totally agree with all that has been written.
And although I will not be able to participate I think we should work 
on having them correct that (on paper and in their minds).
Probably we could even do that as an official statement of the ASF or 
use some contacts to other OSS initiatives.
As I see that as a rather general matter to hijack "OSS".

What do you think?

Julian

Am 06.10.19, 11:48 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" 
:

Hi Michael,

Yes, that too was my impression. I remember the amount of work you 
put in here. But it seems that Siemens likes to appear open without actually 
being open for open source. That's why I contacted the organizers and tried to 
convince them to correct this paragraph and suffered that they invite tuely 
open open-source communities.

I'll be discussing with my boss, if I can attend.

Chris

Holen Sie sich Outlook für Android


From: Michael Osipov 
Sent: Saturday, October 5, 2019 6:31:01 PM
To: dev@community.apache.org ; Christofer 
Dutz ; i...@apache.org 
Subject: Re: Workshop about the future of Open Source Software and 
Open Source Hardware

Am 2019-10-05 um 17:20 schrieb Christofer Dutz:
> Hi,
>
> Lukasz just posted this on the plc4x slack channel mainly because 
of Siemens’ attempt to appear open:
> “There are also B2B Open Source platforms: Siemens’ MindSphere 
offers a managed open source Platform-as-a-Service for developing 
cross-platform applications” (Which it clearly is not).
>
> But when I read through the Agenda I think it might be a good 
idea to show up with a little Apache delegation:
> 

Re: Workshop about the future of Open Source Software and Open Source Hardware

[Christofer Dutz]

Hi all,

They already changed the wording slightly ... now they write that Siemens 
MindSphere USES a lot of Open-Source software. 
Still not happy with it being mentioned directly after the: "There are a lot of 
Open-Source platforms", but it sort of feels as if Siemens had pulled some 
strings to be mentioned here (The official Agenda doesn't even mention 
"Siemens" or "MindSphere")

I just discussed this with my boss and I'll probably be going. 
Would however be great to show up there with a little (or a big) Apache 
delegation. 
The big commercial players could be showing up with quite a delegation.
After all it's not about Apache PLC4X, but could involve a great portion of 
what Apache does. 
And especially the Panel discussions about: 

"Panel 2.2: Nurturing Open Source Communities
In the backdrop of the increasing popularity and use of open source
software, it is a paradox that many open source projects continue to
struggle to sustain themselves. Remarkably, sustainability issues
afflict not just the small and medium-sized project, but also some of
the larger and well-known ones.
The success of open source software initiatives often goes hand in
hand with the success of their communities. So what are the success
factors leading to a sustainable community? What are the key
challenges open source projects face? More importantly, what can
and should be done about the sustainability and funding issue?
This session invites a brief discussion to identify key sustainability
concerns, followed by two deeper debates on practical
proposals/solutions to solve (i) Sustainability issues (ii) Funding
issues. The session combines results and inputs from the
Commission’s EU-FOSSA project and the Commission’s Open
Source Observatory (OSOR)"

"Panel 7: Improving openness, trust and security thanks to open
source
The advent of emerging technologies like Artificial Intelligence and
block chain and the exponential increase on cybersecurity threats
made the demand for security, trust and transparency in decision
making as key priorities in designing ICT systems. Open source is seen
as a mechanism to ensure such characteristics. The purpose of this
session is to highlight the role of Open Source towards achieving
security, trust and transparency in decision-making. What are the
strengths but also what are the weaknesses and limitations? The
session combines results and inputs from the Commission’s EUFOSSA project."

Chris

Am 07.10.19, 10:38 schrieb "Julian Feinauer" :

Hi all,

sorry for being late to the party.
I totally agree with all that has been written.
And although I will not be able to participate I think we should work on 
having them correct that (on paper and in their minds).
Probably we could even do that as an official statement of the ASF or use 
some contacts to other OSS initiatives.
As I see that as a rather general matter to hijack "OSS".

What do you think?

Julian

Am 06.10.19, 11:48 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" :

Hi Michael,

Yes, that too was my impression. I remember the amount of work you put 
in here. But it seems that Siemens likes to appear open without actually being 
open for open source. That's why I contacted the organizers and tried to 
convince them to correct this paragraph and suffered that they invite tuely 
open open-source communities.

I'll be discussing with my boss, if I can attend.

Chris

Holen Sie sich Outlook für Android


From: Michael Osipov 
Sent: Saturday, October 5, 2019 6:31:01 PM
To: dev@community.apache.org ; Christofer 
Dutz ; i...@apache.org 
Subject: Re: Workshop about the future of Open Source Software and Open 
Source Hardware

Am 2019-10-05 um 17:20 schrieb Christofer Dutz:
> Hi,
>
> Lukasz just posted this on the plc4x slack channel mainly because of 
Siemens’ attempt to appear open:
> “There are also B2B Open Source platforms: Siemens’ MindSphere offers 
a managed open source Platform-as-a-Service for developing cross-platform 
applications” (Which it clearly is not).
>
> But when I read through the Agenda I think it might be a good idea to 
show up with a little Apache delegation:
> 
https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/news/workshop-about-future-open-source-software-and-open-source-hardware
>
> Seems to be not a Workshop where you are fuled up with some stuff, 
but where people come together to form the appearance of Open-Source in the 
Industry.

This cannot be right/true. I have tried for more than a year to engage
with DI (digital infrastructure) and utterly failed. My fellow coworker
in Nuremberg told me that we (DI) don't want to engage with the OSS
community at any kind of level. After that, 

Re: Workshop about the future of Open Source Software and Open Source Hardware

[Julian Feinauer]

Hi all,

sorry for being late to the party.
I totally agree with all that has been written.
And although I will not be able to participate I think we should work on having 
them correct that (on paper and in their minds).
Probably we could even do that as an official statement of the ASF or use some 
contacts to other OSS initiatives.
As I see that as a rather general matter to hijack "OSS".

What do you think?

Julian

Am 06.10.19, 11:48 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" :

Hi Michael,

Yes, that too was my impression. I remember the amount of work you put in 
here. But it seems that Siemens likes to appear open without actually being 
open for open source. That's why I contacted the organizers and tried to 
convince them to correct this paragraph and suffered that they invite tuely 
open open-source communities.

I'll be discussing with my boss, if I can attend.

Chris

Holen Sie sich Outlook für Android


From: Michael Osipov 
Sent: Saturday, October 5, 2019 6:31:01 PM
To: dev@community.apache.org ; Christofer Dutz 
; i...@apache.org 
Subject: Re: Workshop about the future of Open Source Software and Open 
Source Hardware

Am 2019-10-05 um 17:20 schrieb Christofer Dutz:
> Hi,
>
> Lukasz just posted this on the plc4x slack channel mainly because of 
Siemens’ attempt to appear open:
> “There are also B2B Open Source platforms: Siemens’ MindSphere offers a 
managed open source Platform-as-a-Service for developing cross-platform 
applications” (Which it clearly is not).
>
> But when I read through the Agenda I think it might be a good idea to 
show up with a little Apache delegation:
> 
https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/news/workshop-about-future-open-source-software-and-open-source-hardware
>
> Seems to be not a Workshop where you are fuled up with some stuff, but 
where people come together to form the appearance of Open-Source in the 
Industry.

This cannot be right/true. I have tried for more than a year to engage
with DI (digital infrastructure) and utterly failed. My fellow coworker
in Nuremberg told me that we (DI) don't want to engage with the OSS
community at any kind of level. After that, I left the topic w/o any
prosperity for the company and the OSS community.

Michael




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