Re: Improving Fineract CN a Community survey

[ronald munjoma]

Hi Saransh,

Intro: Ronald Munjoma here, based in Harare, Zimbabwe. I am not a user of
Fineract 1. x or Fineract CN. I am more of a lurker on the forums, learning
and observing how Apache projects are run. Hopefully, I will use Fineract
1. x or Fineract CN in one of my projects.  As for suggesting changes to
the Fineract project, I would like to suggest and probably put it to a vote
that we adopt and follow the Apache Superset Improvement Proposal (SIP)
way: https://github.com/apache/superset/issues/5602


Regards
Ronald

On Sat, 25 Sept 2021 at 17:23, Saransh Sharma  wrote:

> I hope this email finds you well, since Apache Con is over we can resume
> discussing the potential ideas and maybe fix some level of community
> established quorum on those ideas.
>
> Last year , we proposed several Architectural (this does not mean that we
> nuke existing work)changes in Fineract CN. We have learned
>
> 1. Make Fineract CN developers ready. (Through the use of tech like
> generators that allows the  easy bootstrapping)
> 2. Implementing a consensus layer and script like a rule engine.
> 3. We should potentially explore ideas down distributed architecture also
> at the same time.
> 4. Moving forward on protocol level rather than API
> 5. Slowly phasing out or contributing on top of Fineract CN. How do we do
> that ? Like if we change something deep (maybe introducing another library
> that does most of the work and phase out the non-essential )
> 6. Using smart contract rather than microsservices
> 7. Having a single source of truth (something like blockchain that can
> work for consensus and data protection)
>
> I would like to take this task, or probably hire a resource on behalf of a
> non profit foundation that can take this task ahead, collaborate with
> stakeholders and understand what are the ways we can potentially explore.
>
> This is not about code changes or a PR so please avoid sending emails like
> Open a ticket on JIRA (Yes yes we will do that but first let's come to a
> consensus which way we would like to go.)
>
> Please contribute over this thread and probably lets treat this email as
> information gatherer rather then jumping on the conclusion
> --
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Saransh Sharma
> Research Partner
>
> This mail is governed by Muellners®  IT policy.
> The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents
> may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from
> disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if
> this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert
> the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any
> attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents
> of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly
> prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be
> monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure
> compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. E-mails
> are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be
> intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed
> to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by e-mail.
>


-- 
Best and Regards
Ronald Munjoma
+263 775 625 283


[image: --]

Ronald Munjoma
[image: https://]about.me/ronaldmunjoma

Fineract CN Generators and Templates

[Awasum Yannick]

Please continue the discussion here.

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 9:15 AM Saransh Sharma 
wrote:

> Hey,
>
> Myrle thanks for sharing his profile and his work. I am not denying and
> closing my eyes from your work and his work. The idea is pretty wild that
> we are proposing, I think it needs a different setting and perhaps context.
>
> I think, so tell me, If i have to contribute to the project in terms of
> changing something from the ground up, how should we do that? How do we
> find out that there are some technical limitations to the existing project
> That does not mean you did not do a great job. I would like to point this
> out, this is an effect of time things improve.
>
> Alexander, refer to last year discussion that we had at the Apache Con
> about Improvement Proposal, our story was based on an individual, not any
> group, it was about solving problems related to development.
>
> For an eg: We have done some work on the generators that automatically
> generates boilerplate for Fineract CN templates saving time for developers,
> but the problem is where do we make this PR since there is no repo that
> matches the idea. (I mean give us the repo / or should we just make a PR on
> the template?)
>
> Does this sound disrespectful to you? A generator that generates code
> templates and services to run a functional piece of code. It can create a
> new application, insert another small sub-logic service or update the
> application.
>
> Another instance is of a set of libs that come with Fineract CN, they need
> to be maintained alongside and is a burden for especially developers and
> the community, why don't we make the project lightweight, leaving some
> choices to the developers (there are many libs that do the same work and
> maybe battle-tested already, why re-invent the wheel)
>
>
Here is a Fineract CN Template Defined at the beginning of the project:
https://github.com/apache/fineract-cn-template

It has the structure to guide developers when creating new microservices.
Is that what you want?


> As Giorgio pointed out above that we need people or PMC who have developed
> Financial products, that may understand the value behind using a mix of
> toolkits. I think maybe our communication was vague according to you some
> say so, but there are some who do not see it that way. we have a division.
>
> So, I request that we close this thread and move on and work on further
> points that, I have highlighted.
>
> and Alex I think we have backwards compatibility and it actually has been
> tested out, that's why we are proposing changes on the top of the Fineract
> CN, these changes are add on and if someone wishes to use them in the true
> sense of microservices. To add real innovation, we should move towards a
> distributed architecture that allows smart contract deployment then we will
> truly have marketplace of business logic and value that could flow from
> Fineract CN.
>
> PS
> We are here to give grants related to the Fineract CN work ,reach out we
> could get you started on the above points.
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 12:37 PM Myrle Krantz  wrote:
>
>> Saransh,
>>
>> Wikipedia would have helped you on this one.  Greg Stein is one of the
>> earliest members of the Apache Software Foundation.  He was a long time
>> board member, including a board chair for five years.  He is currently
>> working as Infrastructure Administrator for The ASF where he has contact
>> with all 200 project communities.  I'm not certain, but he may not have
>> missed a single ASF board call for the last 20 years.  Beyond that Greg was
>> VP of Subversion for several years, and he has made significant
>> contributions to the Python programming language.  He is also one of the
>> incubation mentors for Apache Fineract.  We elected him into that role in
>> part to guide us on implementing the Apache way, and we were *honored* that
>> he chose to serve our community in that role.
>>
>> Basically: you just told someone who played a significant role
>> in defining the Apache Way as part of his life's work, that he doesn't
>> understand it.  Hence his reaction.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Myrle Krantz
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Stein
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 2:23 AM Greg Stein  wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 08:13:54PM +0530, Saransh Sharma wrote:
>>> >...
>>> > Greg, seems like your understanding is limited, community over code is
>>> the
>>> > Apache way.
>>>
>>> Hahahaaa This is one of the funniest things I've read all week.
>>>
>>> Thank you for the laugh,
>>> -g
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Saransh Sharma
> Research Partner
>
> This mail is governed by Muellners®  IT policy.
> The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents
> may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from
> disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if
> this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert
> the sender by 

Re: Improving Fineract CN a Community survey

[Awasum Yannick]

Hi Saransh,

Right now, the most important things we need to do on Fineract are to:

1.) Upgrade the major project dependencies.
 a.) Upgrade to Spring Boot 2 ( this is already in progress and needs
testing) .
 b.) Upgrade from Java 8 to Java 11 (LTS). Java 17 is another LTS
version but we can do that later.
 c.) Upgrade to a more recent version of Angular, say 10, 11 or 12. How
much effort do you think will be required for all these?
2.) Deploy a Sandbox Environment for Testing Fineract CN. So the community
will have a demo environment for playing around and learning about the new
system.
3.) Figure out how to Release Fineract CN. Myrle, Markus and Mark will help
us when we get here, they have a lot of experiences in that area. Others
will be available to help including Petri, Juhan, Mike, Aleks and many
others.
4.) Write Documentation on how to host Fineract CN on major Cloud
Infrastructure.
5.) Decide on how to host Fineract CN artifacts either using JFrog or
whatever solution is available out there... Juhan already did a lot of work
in that direction
6.) With 5. in place, we can figure out a complete CI/CD environment for
auto deploying to the sandbox environment we defined in 2. above..
.

There are so many things to do on Fineract CN. These are some of the most
important things which this community needs. We can start drawing up a road
map for these things and begin working on them.
As a community, we have not been able to achieve even a fraction of these
important goals over the past few years since the initial importation of
code into Apache Infra. Some powerful and forward thinking Orgs have hard
forked Fineract CN and are making progress and it has been successful for
them. This shows Fineract CN can work. Let's not abandon it, let's make it
better and even do an initial release of Apache Fineract CN before we start
talking about doing other things. We can build whatever blockchain or smart
contract solutions on top of the fundamental release. If we cannot do the
above as a community then we won't be able to do whatever you or
anyone else will propose.

Why have we not been able to make progress with releasing Apache Fineract
CN? Why? That should be a question on our minds.


On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 4:23 PM Saransh Sharma 
wrote:

> I hope this email finds you well, since Apache Con is over we can resume
> discussing the potential ideas and maybe fix some level of community
> established quorum on those ideas.
>
> Last year , we proposed several Architectural (this does not mean that we
> nuke existing work)changes in Fineract CN. We have learned
>
> 1. Make Fineract CN developers ready. (Through the use of tech like
> generators that allows the  easy bootstrapping)
> 2. Implementing a consensus layer and script like a rule engine.
> 3. We should potentially explore ideas down distributed architecture also
> at the same time.
> 4. Moving forward on protocol level rather than API
> 5. Slowly phasing out or contributing on top of Fineract CN. How do we do
> that ? Like if we change something deep (maybe introducing another library
> that does most of the work and phase out the non-essential )
> 6. Using smart contract rather than microsservices
> 7. Having a single source of truth (something like blockchain that can
> work for consensus and data protection)
>
> I would like to take this task, or probably hire a resource on behalf of a
> non profit foundation that can take this task ahead, collaborate with
> stakeholders and understand what are the ways we can potentially explore.
>
> This is not about code changes or a PR so please avoid sending emails like
> Open a ticket on JIRA (Yes yes we will do that but first let's come to a
> consensus which way we would like to go.)
>
> Please contribute over this thread and probably lets treat this email as
> information gatherer rather then jumping on the conclusion
> --
> Thanks and regards,
>
> Saransh Sharma
> Research Partner
>
> This mail is governed by Muellners®  IT policy.
> The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents
> may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from
> disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if
> this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert
> the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any
> attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents
> of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly
> prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be
> monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure
> compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. E-mails
> are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as they can be
> intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed
> to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by e-mail.
>

Re: ApacheCon 2021 is almost here! Join us and have some fun!

[Saransh Sharma]

Hey,

Myrle thanks for sharing his profile and his work. I am not denying and
closing my eyes from your work and his work. The idea is pretty wild that
we are proposing, I think it needs a different setting and perhaps context.

I think, so tell me, If i have to contribute to the project in terms of
changing something from the ground up, how should we do that? How do we
find out that there are some technical limitations to the existing project
That does not mean you did not do a great job. I would like to point this
out, this is an effect of time things improve.

Alexander, refer to last year discussion that we had at the Apache Con
about Improvement Proposal, our story was based on an individual, not any
group, it was about solving problems related to development.

For an eg: We have done some work on the generators that automatically
generates boilerplate for Fineract CN templates saving time for developers,
but the problem is where do we make this PR since there is no repo that
matches the idea. (I mean give us the repo / or should we just make a PR on
the template?)

Does this sound disrespectful to you? A generator that generates code
templates and services to run a functional piece of code. It can create a
new application, insert another small sub-logic service or update the
application.

Another instance is of a set of libs that come with Fineract CN, they need
to be maintained alongside and is a burden for especially developers and
the community, why don't we make the project lightweight, leaving some
choices to the developers (there are many libs that do the same work and
maybe battle-tested already, why re-invent the wheel)


As Giorgio pointed out above that we need people or PMC who have developed
Financial products, that may understand the value behind using a mix of
toolkits. I think maybe our communication was vague according to you some
say so, but there are some who do not see it that way. we have a division.

So, I request that we close this thread and move on and work on further
points that, I have highlighted.

and Alex I think we have backwards compatibility and it actually has been
tested out, that's why we are proposing changes on the top of the Fineract
CN, these changes are add on and if someone wishes to use them in the true
sense of microservices. To add real innovation, we should move towards a
distributed architecture that allows smart contract deployment then we will
truly have marketplace of business logic and value that could flow from
Fineract CN.

PS
We are here to give grants related to the Fineract CN work ,reach out we
could get you started on the above points.


On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 12:37 PM Myrle Krantz  wrote:

> Saransh,
>
> Wikipedia would have helped you on this one.  Greg Stein is one of the
> earliest members of the Apache Software Foundation.  He was a long time
> board member, including a board chair for five years.  He is currently
> working as Infrastructure Administrator for The ASF where he has contact
> with all 200 project communities.  I'm not certain, but he may not have
> missed a single ASF board call for the last 20 years.  Beyond that Greg was
> VP of Subversion for several years, and he has made significant
> contributions to the Python programming language.  He is also one of the
> incubation mentors for Apache Fineract.  We elected him into that role in
> part to guide us on implementing the Apache way, and we were *honored* that
> he chose to serve our community in that role.
>
> Basically: you just told someone who played a significant role in defining
> the Apache Way as part of his life's work, that he doesn't understand it.
> Hence his reaction.
>
> Best Regards,
> Myrle Krantz
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Stein
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 2:23 AM Greg Stein  wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 08:13:54PM +0530, Saransh Sharma wrote:
>> >...
>> > Greg, seems like your understanding is limited, community over code is
>> the
>> > Apache way.
>>
>> Hahahaaa This is one of the funniest things I've read all week.
>>
>> Thank you for the laugh,
>> -g
>>
>

-- 
Thanks and regards,

Saransh Sharma
Research Partner

This mail is governed by Muellners®  IT policy.
The information contained in this e-mail and any accompanying documents may
contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from
disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if
this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert
the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any
attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents
of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly
prohibited. All messages sent to and from this e-mail address may be
monitored as permitted by applicable law and regulations to ensure
compliance with our internal policies and to protect our business. E-mails
are not secure and cannot be guaranteed to be error free as 

Re: ApacheCon 2021 is almost here! Join us and have some fun!

[Myrle Krantz]

Saransh,

Wikipedia would have helped you on this one.  Greg Stein is one of the
earliest members of the Apache Software Foundation.  He was a long time
board member, including a board chair for five years.  He is currently
working as Infrastructure Administrator for The ASF where he has contact
with all 200 project communities.  I'm not certain, but he may not have
missed a single ASF board call for the last 20 years.  Beyond that Greg was
VP of Subversion for several years, and he has made significant
contributions to the Python programming language.  He is also one of the
incubation mentors for Apache Fineract.  We elected him into that role in
part to guide us on implementing the Apache way, and we were *honored* that
he chose to serve our community in that role.

Basically: you just told someone who played a significant role in defining
the Apache Way as part of his life's work, that he doesn't understand it.
Hence his reaction.

Best Regards,
Myrle Krantz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Stein


On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 2:23 AM Greg Stein  wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 08:13:54PM +0530, Saransh Sharma wrote:
> >...
> > Greg, seems like your understanding is limited, community over code is
> the
> > Apache way.
>
> Hahahaaa This is one of the funniest things I've read all week.
>
> Thank you for the laugh,
> -g
>