Re: [marketing] Nokia funds KOffice for mobiles
On Tue, 2009-10-20 at 11:00 +0800, Peter Junge wrote: Of course I agree with you, but I would recommend to discuss this on a development list, as we are on d...@marketing here, mostly trying to make stakeholders aware, that OOo will loose market position, if it doesn't have a mobile version ready when time has come. Implementation is just a question of commitment. I remember this being discussed several years ago. It's possibly too late now given the time development will take. Those of us saying that efforts should be primarily channeled into making the code more efficient than adding more features didn't get very far. Now it might be just as easy to wait until the Smart Phones can simply run OOo as the hardware continues to improve and fall in price. Or make OOo available as a thin client login as an interim. I should think Google is thinking more in terms of its own on-line apps than OOo for Android. This is a marketing issue because without a presence on mobile devices OOo's future is bleak. Think 5 years ahead. What will the cloud be like then? What improvements will be made to handsets? There is a reasonable chance that by then Android will be like the open architecture PC competing for the desktop with the Mac. Who won that battle? -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications A new approach to assessment for learning www.theINGOTs.org - 01827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
Re: [marketing] Nokia funds KOffice for mobiles
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 11:31, Ian wrote: Is it cost-effective to spend US$100 for a bluetooth keyboard and mouse for a US$250 smarrtphone/PDA? A USB keyboard is around $5 and a USB Mouse $2 and the G-phone has a USB port so the cost to get a basic set up is minimal. http://www.n1wireless.com/Bluetooth_Keyboard-I_Tech_Virtual_Keyboard.html US$109.99 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00142C4O8 US$149.99 http://www.jr.com/golan-technology/pe/GOC_VKB/ US$149.99 The N900, which is probably Nokia's current premier phone offers Bluetooth connectivity, but not a USB port. (KOffice is available for this system.) Currently available Smartphones/PDAs which offer USB connectivity, usually do so using weird/proprietary connectors on the device end. If Koffice gets to be the de facto standard on Smartphones OOo (and MSO for that matter) will be confined to future niche markets. There are roughly half a dozen operating systems for Smartphones/PDAs/etc. _If_ QT ports the Koffice libraries to all of those operating systems, then KOffice might well become the dominant office suite. Between what is best described as outright fraud, de facto swindling, and telling its partners flat out lies, Microsoft is headed to ensuring that nobody in the mobile device market works with them. Microsoft Mobile Office won't make it in that market.(It doesn't help that Microsoft Mobile Office is incompatible with MS2k7, and MSO2k3.) The problems with OOo and Go-OO are too deep seated for it to make any impact on the mobile device market. It is theoretically possible for an office suite, other than KOffice, that produces ODF compatible documents to become the dominant player in the mobile device market. jonathon -- Ethical conduct is a vice. Corrupt conduct is a virtue. Guiding principles of the legal and ethical system of Nacarima. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
Re: [marketing] Nokia funds KOffice for mobiles
On Tue, 2009-10-20 at 13:24 +, jonathon wrote: On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 11:31, Ian wrote: Is it cost-effective to spend US$100 for a bluetooth keyboard and mouse for a US$250 smarrtphone/PDA? A USB keyboard is around $5 and a USB Mouse $2 and the G-phone has a USB port so the cost to get a basic set up is minimal. http://www.n1wireless.com/Bluetooth_Keyboard-I_Tech_Virtual_Keyboard.html US$109.99 Point is I can buy a USB keyboard for a fraction of that price - I'm not really prepared to pay $100 just for wireless when the cable makes almost no difference to the way I work. The snag with the G-phone is that the USB port is not set up for keyboards. I'm sure it could be hacked :-) But I'll wait until one of the manufacturers provides it. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00142C4O8 US$149.99 http://www.jr.com/golan-technology/pe/GOC_VKB/ US$149.99 The N900, which is probably Nokia's current premier phone offers Bluetooth connectivity, but not a USB port. (KOffice is available for this system.) G-phone has USB, just not currently supporting a keyboard but I'm thinking more about the future. It rather amazes me that Google haven't provided a standard USB keyboard driver. I can't see it putting the price up and typing on a cheap but full sized keyboard would be a lot easier eg when I'm at home at my desk with my phone which is actually quite a lot of the time. A VGA out would be handy too even if the resolution is not that good. Currently available Smartphones/PDAs which offer USB connectivity, usually do so using weird/proprietary connectors on the device end. I connect my g-phone to my netbook with a standard USB cable and a cheap mini adapter on the phone end. It then charges off the netbook (battery life on the G-phone is its main weakness) and I can transfer files that way too. Bluetooth works but its a bit fiddly and slower than a cable I need anyway for battery charging so personally I don't use it much. If Koffice gets to be the de facto standard on Smartphones OOo (and MSO for that matter) will be confined to future niche markets. There are roughly half a dozen operating systems for Smartphones/PDAs/etc. At the moment. There were half a dozen Micro computer OSs about until the open architecture PC came along and anyone could build one. Then it rapidly went to DOS then Windows. I reckon that is what Google is trying to do with Android. Why do you think Nokia is rushing to open source Symbian? Open Systems architecture is what made the PC. Apple did nice stuff but all proprietary and got confined to a niche. Deja vu :-) _If_ QT ports the Koffice libraries to all of those operating systems, then KOffice might well become the dominant office suite. Between what is best described as outright fraud, de facto swindling, and telling its partners flat out lies, Microsoft is headed to ensuring that nobody in the mobile device market works with them. Microsoft Mobile Office won't make it in that market.(It doesn't help that Microsoft Mobile Office is incompatible with MS2k7, and MSO2k3.) Yes, MS seems very unlikely to compete in this market, they had their chance and they blew it. I suspect Apple is currently at its height as it was in the mid 80s before Windows. The problems with OOo and Go-OO are too deep seated for it to make any impact on the mobile device market. Probably - again the project priority should have been mobiles 5 years ago when it was obvious that this would eventually take over from desktops as the dominant computer market. It is theoretically possible for an office suite, other than KOffice, that produces ODF compatible documents to become the dominant player in the mobile device market. But probably not practically because the development lead in time is too great unless there is a product just about ready now. Since Koffice is FOSS, there is nothing to stop Google putting it in Android which I'm sure they will do if they think it is going to give Symbian an advantage. -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications A new approach to assessment for learning www.theINGOTs.org - 01827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
Re: [marketing] Nokia funds KOffice for mobiles
On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 13:00, Ian wrote: What happens when someone markets a phone that you can plug in a USB keyboard and a monitor. I've seen keyboards and mice that had bluetooth connectivity support. Assuming the carriers haven't blocked that functionality (Bluetooth connections to non-headsets), the current limiting issues are: * Lack of decent office software on a smartphone/PDA; * Cost; On 2009/10/18 André Schnabel wrote: I have no idea, why Nokia is investing in KOffice libs as backend for a viewer application. Okular is already very good in displaying office (including ODF) Going by their website, Okular does not support impress, draw, or calc files. Koffice does. By porting the libraries, Nokia automatically has an office suite that offers true cross-platform compatibility and functionality. On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 01:06, Peter Junge wrote: That's why RD needs to address the challenges of tomorrow. I really hope mobile OOo gets underway before it's too late. In fact it almost is. For mobile platforms, the office suite has to be completely rewritten: * The primary issue is available RAM. (Despite shipping with an alleged 512 MB RAM, I have 12 MB RAM for running programs in, when turned on.); * The secondary issue is the number of environments that can be installed.Java, .NET, etc haven't been ported to mobile platforms yet. As such, the office suite has to be written in one language, with all required functionality contained in libraries ported to the specific language used for writing the program for the specific platform. jonathon -- Ethical conduct is a vice. Corrupt conduct is a virtue. Guiding principles of the legal system of Nacirema. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
Re: [marketing] Nokia funds KOffice for mobiles
On Mon, 2009-10-19 at 10:12 +, jonathon wrote: On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 13:00, Ian wrote: What happens when someone markets a phone that you can plug in a USB keyboard and a monitor. I've seen keyboards and mice that had bluetooth connectivity support. Assuming the carriers haven't blocked that functionality (Bluetooth connections to non-headsets), the current limiting issues are: * Lack of decent office software on a smartphone/PDA; So port OpenOffice.org to say a G-phone - Google probably want people to use their on-line apps but an option for OOo would be good. Ok, it will probably run like a drain to start with but once the concept is achieved no doubt the technology will improve. * Cost; OOo itself costs nothing but obviously increasing RAM and processor power does. However, these increase and get less costly all the time. I beleve the g-phone has about 192 meg of RAM free for apps. If that was doubled I think OOo would run acceptably for many users. If K-office does it better then OOo has a problem. If K-office gets established in the mobile space I doubt OOo will then get in at all. -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications A new approach to assessment for learning www.theINGOTs.org - 01827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
Re: [marketing] Nokia funds KOffice for mobiles
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 10:34, Ian wrote: * Lack of decent office software on a smartphone/PDA; So port OpenOffice.org to say a G-phone a) Inasmuch as a complete rewrite is required, the best approach would be to scrap the existing code base, and write a new application from scratch, in the target language for the target platform. Write needed libraries as the functionality is add/required, releasing them as soon as they have been written; b) I'm currently to thinly spread in other programming projects, to add this to my list; but once the concept is achieved no doubt the technology will improve. Optimize the code to improve program speed, etc./ * Cost; OOo itself costs nothing but obviously increasing RAM and processor I was not referring to the cost of the office suite. Rather, I was referring to the cost of the additional hardware (mouse, keyboard). Is it cost-effective to spend US$100 for a bluetooth keyboard and mouse for a US$250 smarrtphone/PDA? If K-office does it better then OOo has a problem. If K-office gets established in the mobile space I doubt OOo will then get in at all. jonathon -- Ethical conduct is a vice. Corrupt conduct is a virtue. Guiding principles of the legal and ethical system of Nacarima. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
Re: [marketing] Nokia funds KOffice for mobiles
Hi Ian, Le 19 oct. 09 à 12:34, Ian a écrit : So port OpenOffice.org to say a G-phone - Google probably want people to use their on-line apps but an option for OOo would be good. Ok, it will probably run like a drain to start with but once the concept is achieved no doubt the technology will improve. Not sure * Cost; OOo itself costs nothing but obviously increasing RAM and processor power does. However, these increase and get less costly all the time. I beleve the g-phone has about 192 meg of RAM free for apps. If that was doubled I think OOo would run acceptably for many users. FYI, OOo4Kdis runs honestly on Celeron 500 + 128 MB or RAM ( using Puppy Linux distribution ), or on XO ( Sugar / 900 MHz / 521 MB or RAM). The drawback : no Java, nor Base, but who cares, if we got a reader ? And if I can, we could just limit the features to act as a simple reader. Will probably divide the size by a factor 2 If K-office does it better then OOo has a problem. If K-office gets established in the mobile space I doubt OOo will then get in at all. IMHO, the fact Nokia has been choosen by Nokia, is because of the QT dependency ( QT wass TrollTech and is now Nokia ) Regards, Eric Bachard -- qɔᴉɹə
Re: [marketing] Nokia funds KOffice for mobiles
On Mon, 2009-10-19 at 11:06 +, jonathon wrote: I was not referring to the cost of the office suite. Rather, I was referring to the cost of the additional hardware (mouse, keyboard). Is it cost-effective to spend US$100 for a bluetooth keyboard and mouse for a US$250 smarrtphone/PDA? A USB keyboard is around $5 and a USB Mouse $2 and the G-phone has a USB port so the cost to get a basic set up is minimal. No doubt I could design a cheap netbook style shell that a Smartphone could simply slide into giving an appropriate size keyboard and screen without incurring the full cost of a netbook - maybe $100 for the package, less with volume sales. Less expensive than a netbook and with the flexbility to use the phone away from the constraints of the larger size needed for a decent keyboard and screen. Actually such a package could have an optional larger battery and recharge the phone battery while it is in place and provide the additional power for more intensive work such as office apps. My G-phone is almost exclusively recharged by my EEEPC netbook. I would certainly pay $200 or more to be able to rationalise the netbook, desktop and phone technologies I own. If K-office does it better then OOo has a problem. If K-office gets established in the mobile space I doubt OOo will then get in at all. jonathon -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications A new approach to assessment for learning www.theINGOTs.org - 01827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
Re: [marketing] Nokia funds KOffice for mobiles
On Mon, 2009-10-19 at 13:08 +0200, eric b wrote: Hi Ian, Le 19 oct. 09 à 12:34, Ian a écrit : So port OpenOffice.org to say a G-phone - Google probably want people to use their on-line apps but an option for OOo would be good. Ok, it will probably run like a drain to start with but once the concept is achieved no doubt the technology will improve. Not sure About how OOo will run well or that technology will improve. I thin the latter is certain - I'd bet my life on it :-) * Cost; OOo itself costs nothing but obviously increasing RAM and processor power does. However, these increase and get less costly all the time. I beleve the g-phone has about 192 meg of RAM free for apps. If that was doubled I think OOo would run acceptably for many users. FYI, OOo4Kdis runs honestly on Celeron 500 + 128 MB or RAM ( using Puppy Linux distribution ), or on XO ( Sugar / 900 MHz / 521 MB or RAM). The drawback : no Java, nor Base, but who cares, if we got a reader ? I agree, base is not really so important at this stage in this application. And if I can, we could just limit the features to act as a simple reader. Will probably divide the size by a factor 2 If K-office does it better then OOo has a problem. If K-office gets established in the mobile space I doubt OOo will then get in at all. IMHO, the fact Nokia has been choosen by Nokia, is because of the QT dependency ( QT wass TrollTech and is now Nokia ) Whatever the reason, if Koffice gets to be the de facto standard on Smartphones OOo (and MSO for that matter) will be confined to future niche markets. There are far more cell phones out there than desktop computers. -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications A new approach to assessment for learning www.theINGOTs.org - 01827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
Re: [marketing] Nokia funds KOffice for mobiles
eric b wrote: FYI, OOo4Kdis runs honestly on Celeron 500 + 128 MB or RAM ( using Puppy Linux distribution ), or on XO ( Sugar / 900 MHz / 521 MB or RAM). The drawback : no Java, nor Base, but who cares, if we got a reader ? Yep, played with it on a Celeron 400 / 256 Megs here, and actually snappy, once retrieved from the slow disk. ;) If K-office does it better then OOo has a problem. If K-office gets established in the mobile space I doubt OOo will then get in at all. IMHO, the fact Nokia has been choosen by Nokia, is because of the QT dependency ( QT wass TrollTech and is now Nokia ) KOffice choosen by Nokia, I assume - yep, that has surely helped. But from what I could glean from the code base, the KOffice folks managed separation between cores and UI much better than OOo did, which would be a huge head start for such a project. Both project renaissance OOo4Kids provide big opportunities to put effort into exactly that - making OOo less monolithic, and easier to reuse parts of it / re-deploy it under completely new UIs. I only hope those opportunities will not be missed. Cheers, -- Thorsten pgpmKm4ue9iku.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [marketing] Nokia funds KOffice for mobiles
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 6:38 PM, Andrew Greig algr...@bigpond.net.au wrote: Hi All, This is my first post to this list, and I have read the entire thread on this subject. A brief history: I am a Linux user of 9 years, I have been using OOo on the desktop since StarOffice 5.2, I am a community distributor of OOo, and I have been a Palm user for 8 years. Even before Palm made the Awesome, did you ever developed for the PalmOS? suicidal move of introducing Windows Mobile as their OS, I was nagging them about working with OOo to use OOo as their onboard document reader and creator. DataViz had a highly functional program for the MS Ofice app, called Documents2Go, and with the lack of a feature in Palm to read our native docs, I had to save all of docs in both formats. With the BTW Nokia currently have a version of Document2Go, it also seems the SymbianOS also have a version of Docs2Go. advent of ODF the need for Palm to embrace the format became stronger, but they still hung on to Microsoft. Their new WebOS is the last gasp of this once-great company, but they seem to be betting on the Cloud as is Google with Android. Althought I wonder if there is a big awareness with the Sidekick loosing all the cloud data. Now Nokia has come out with an idea to use KOffice on their phones, and fair enough too. If you've got it, use it. Mind you Trolltech designed the Linux OS for the Sharp Zaurus, and it synched better with Windows than with Linux - go figure! Maybe our best direction is to get a Most of Trolltech speciality has been interfaces more than functionality, but the closed nature of building this tools under contract make the KDE community to not be able to provide the conections to the current protocols. Lite version of OOo working under Android. Predictions (Gartner) are that within 2 years Android will have a strong second place position in the marketplace, behind Nokia. Given Google's interest in driving advertising sales on portable devices, maybe a joint project with Google to put OOo on Android might work. Nokia however could easily put the Maemo platform on all their mobiles and push it as the main platform for development. However that is a big If, however OOo doesnt really depend on any platform OOo doesnt use the Win32 libraries nor the GTK or QT environment. Using the curent enviroment for android or webos or maemo will just be too hard to make it work. However maybe optimizing the native OOo engine to run on the mobile processor it would make it similar. I guess the start would be to do exactly that. Do a technichal analisys on the viability of running OOo on the android platform. You can use virtualbox currently to run it: http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/android-or-webos-try-you-buy Also the Android documentation might be some help: http://www.androidx86.org/ The important thing to keep in mind is that OOo must end up on portable devices, sooner rather than later. I was referred to this list by Juergen Schmidt of SUN in response to a message I sent to the developers list: I would suggest that you post it on the discuss|d...@openoffice.org list again and start a discussion there. Or you join the just at the weekend started discussion on dis...@openoffice.org| dev@marketing.openoffice.org about a mobile version of OOo related to the latest announcements from Nokia to support a mobile version of KOffice. The tile of this thread is Nokia funds KOffice for mobiles Juergen Andrew Greig Community Distributor, OpenOffice.org Melbourne, Australia - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org -- Alexandro Colorado OpenOffice.org Espantilde;ol IM: j...@jabber.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
Re: [marketing] Nokia funds KOffice for mobiles
Hi Jonathon, jonathon wrote: [...] On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 01:06, Peter Junge wrote: That's why RD needs to address the challenges of tomorrow. I really hope mobile OOo gets underway before it's too late. In fact it almost is. For mobile platforms, the office suite has to be completely rewritten: * The primary issue is available RAM. (Despite shipping with an alleged 512 MB RAM, I have 12 MB RAM for running programs in, when turned on.); Well, hardware limits are an issue ever since but never stopped progress for too long. ;-) * The secondary issue is the number of environments that can be installed.Java, .NET, etc haven't been ported to mobile platforms yet. As such, the office suite has to be written in one language, with all required functionality contained in libraries ported to the specific language used for writing the program for the specific platform. Of course I agree with you, but I would recommend to discuss this on a development list, as we are on d...@marketing here, mostly trying to make stakeholders aware, that OOo will loose market position, if it doesn't have a mobile version ready when time has come. Implementation is just a question of commitment. Best regards, Peter - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
Re: [marketing] Nokia funds KOffice for mobiles
On Thu, 2009-10-15 at 21:54 -0500, Alexandro Colorado wrote: Here is a piece of news that is interesting as KOffice once again change from becoming multi platform to migrating into the mobile architecture. http://news.kde.org/2009/10/13/nokia-sponsors-koffice-development-mobile-devices The development of KOffice on mobile devices really marks one of the OOo lead requests of having an OOo for PDA and/or mobiles. This puts more pressure into the project on looking at how can a project like OOo run efficiently in a mobile environment. In the past I have used Abiword and Gnumerics on my Nokia770 Internet tablet. The result where less than useful. However it was good to read files from my desktops and make tiny edits. What happens when someone markets a phone that you can plug in a USB keyboard and a monitor. Then you don't need a laptop or desktop unless you are doing something specialist. For Office applications surely this can't be far away. -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications A new approach to assessment for learning www.theINGOTs.org - 01827 305940 You have received this email from the following company: The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
