[RESULT][LAZY VOTE] create users@mxnet
All - lazy vote to create users@mxnet has been passed without objections. I'm calling all interested individuals to join the mailing list to support growth and answering questioned. Jim, Sebastian, Henri - would one of you please file request with infra to create the mailing list. Regards, Steffen On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 8:13 PM Steffen Rochel wrote: > Based on the discussion here > <https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/0eddfc605f832ff2175e70dead5cb254c98e86655d2e4cec1ce3878c@%3Cdev.mxnet.apache.org%3E> > I suggest to move forward with the proposal summarized below. If no-one > objects with in three days (June 27th), I will assume lazy consensus and > ask mentors to file request with infra to setup a users@ list. If there > are objections we fall back to majority vote > <https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html>. > Proposal summary: > 1. Setup user@mxnet list and staff with volunteers to respond to user > requests. > 2. Make changes based on feedback to grow the user list organically. > 3. Decide after 6 months how to continue based on user@mxnet adoption and > conversion into contributors. > 4. Start tracking how many people from discussion forums convert to > contributors. > > Regards, > Steffen > > >
Re: users@mxnet
Thanks Isabel and Sergio for the feedback and evaluation criteria. Based on the discussion I see mixed views in the community. To summarize my suggestion: 1. Setup user@ list and staff with volunteers to respond to user requests. 2. Make changes based on feedback to grow the user list organically. 3. Decide after 6 months how to continue based on user community adoption and conversion into contributors. 4. Start tracking how many people from discussion forums convert to contributors. I will start a lazy vote on my suggestion tomorrow unless somebody has strong objections and would like to discuss further. Steffen On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 6:47 AM Sergio Fernández wrote: > Honestly, I'm quite surprised of the level of the reactions on this thread. > When I started it, I just wanted to expand the community with a tool that, > even some people consider it "old fashion", it has been proved to help many > other Apache projects to foster their community in the past. > > I guess, until people change their mindset, stop to think as scientist, get > rid of the affiliation and start to build an open source community, this > podling will struggle to move forward. > > At least I hope the proposal Sebastian have made may be acceptable for most > of the people who are reluctant to adopt the ASF communication channels. > > On Jun 20, 2018 18:38, "Chris Olivier" wrote: > > +1 > > > On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 8:43 AM Steffen Rochel > wrote: > > > > I had a discussion yesterday with Jun Wu (wujun@gmail.com) to get a > > better understanding about the concerns raised, that users might get > > confused and maintenance efforts. > > I agree with Jim that building and fostering the community is important. > > First of all, I suggest we should be open minded and not make claims that > > we have a good understanding of user preferences. We might have insights > > about preferences of current users (which I also would question as we > > sampled only a small set), but we certainly don't have insight about the > > preferences of new users we are trying to attract. > > In such situation it might be better to run an experiment, offer choices > > and collect real feedback - lets be customer focussed. > > My suggestion is to establish a user@ list and support the list with a > > volunteer subset of contributors and committers to minimize the > maintenance > > impact on the whole community. > > After a reasonable time like 6 months we can evaluate the adoption of > user@ > > and effort to support and can make an informed, data driven decision how > to > > proceed. > > > > I recommend to create the user@ list and call for volunteers to support > > the > > list. > > > > Regards, > > Steffen > > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 8:10 AM Hagay Lupesko wrote: > > > > > Jim, > > > > > > Earlier on the thread you suggested to clarify and expand on the usage > > of a > > > user@ mailing list and how it is useful for a project. > > > > > > It may be helpful for the community to learn a bit more about it. Could > > you > > > expand and/or share relevant links and examples? > > > > > > Thank you, > > > Hagay > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 07:31 Jim Jagielski wrote: > > > > > > > Just so we are clear: building and fostering a community takes > effort. > > > > Either it is something important to the project, or it's not. > > > > > > > > My assumption is that It Is. > > > > > > > > > On Jun 18, 2018, at 8:59 PM, YiZhi Liu > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I am personally not a big fan of mailing list but agree with Thomas > > > > > that we may get extra users, which worth a try. > > > > > On the other hand, I also have concern that we do not have a > > community > > > > > big enough to support multiple forums. If people asked questions > but > > > > > got no response, that can be worse than not having the mailing list > > at > > > > > all. > > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 5:46 PM Thomas DELTEIL > > > > > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> I was actually the one stating that we didn't need a user mailing > > list > > > > >> during the Seattle meetup, given all the reasons already exposed > > > above. > > > > >> > > > > >> However given what proponents of a mailing list said, I personally > > > > wouldn't > > > > >> mind adding a new channel as a user mailing list, and monitoring > it. > > > > There > > > > >> seems to be a subset of users, used to apache projects, that > > wouldn't > > > > use > > > > >> the forum but would use a mailing list. Though I think it is not > as > > > > >> feature-rich as the forum and there is a risk of dilution of > > > > information. > > > > >> It is more about reaching those extra users. If we see a dilution > of > > > > >> traffic on the forum towards the mailing list (~currently 100 > > > > posts/week) > > > > >> then maybe we can reconsider our assumptions? > > > > >> > > > > >> All the best, > > > > >> > > > > >> Thomas Delteil > > > > >> > > > > >> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 17:30 Pedro Larroy < > > >
Re: users@mxnet
Honestly, I'm quite surprised of the level of the reactions on this thread. When I started it, I just wanted to expand the community with a tool that, even some people consider it "old fashion", it has been proved to help many other Apache projects to foster their community in the past. I guess, until people change their mindset, stop to think as scientist, get rid of the affiliation and start to build an open source community, this podling will struggle to move forward. At least I hope the proposal Sebastian have made may be acceptable for most of the people who are reluctant to adopt the ASF communication channels. On Jun 20, 2018 18:38, "Chris Olivier" wrote: +1 On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 8:43 AM Steffen Rochel wrote: > I had a discussion yesterday with Jun Wu (wujun@gmail.com) to get a > better understanding about the concerns raised, that users might get > confused and maintenance efforts. > I agree with Jim that building and fostering the community is important. > First of all, I suggest we should be open minded and not make claims that > we have a good understanding of user preferences. We might have insights > about preferences of current users (which I also would question as we > sampled only a small set), but we certainly don't have insight about the > preferences of new users we are trying to attract. > In such situation it might be better to run an experiment, offer choices > and collect real feedback - lets be customer focussed. > My suggestion is to establish a user@ list and support the list with a > volunteer subset of contributors and committers to minimize the maintenance > impact on the whole community. > After a reasonable time like 6 months we can evaluate the adoption of user@ > and effort to support and can make an informed, data driven decision how to > proceed. > > I recommend to create the user@ list and call for volunteers to support > the > list. > > Regards, > Steffen > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 8:10 AM Hagay Lupesko wrote: > > > Jim, > > > > Earlier on the thread you suggested to clarify and expand on the usage > of a > > user@ mailing list and how it is useful for a project. > > > > It may be helpful for the community to learn a bit more about it. Could > you > > expand and/or share relevant links and examples? > > > > Thank you, > > Hagay > > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 07:31 Jim Jagielski wrote: > > > > > Just so we are clear: building and fostering a community takes effort. > > > Either it is something important to the project, or it's not. > > > > > > My assumption is that It Is. > > > > > > > On Jun 18, 2018, at 8:59 PM, YiZhi Liu wrote: > > > > > > > > I am personally not a big fan of mailing list but agree with Thomas > > > > that we may get extra users, which worth a try. > > > > On the other hand, I also have concern that we do not have a > community > > > > big enough to support multiple forums. If people asked questions but > > > > got no response, that can be worse than not having the mailing list > at > > > > all. > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 5:46 PM Thomas DELTEIL > > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> I was actually the one stating that we didn't need a user mailing > list > > > >> during the Seattle meetup, given all the reasons already exposed > > above. > > > >> > > > >> However given what proponents of a mailing list said, I personally > > > wouldn't > > > >> mind adding a new channel as a user mailing list, and monitoring it. > > > There > > > >> seems to be a subset of users, used to apache projects, that > wouldn't > > > use > > > >> the forum but would use a mailing list. Though I think it is not as > > > >> feature-rich as the forum and there is a risk of dilution of > > > information. > > > >> It is more about reaching those extra users. If we see a dilution of > > > >> traffic on the forum towards the mailing list (~currently 100 > > > posts/week) > > > >> then maybe we can reconsider our assumptions? > > > >> > > > >> All the best, > > > >> > > > >> Thomas Delteil > > > >> > > > >> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 17:30 Pedro Larroy < > > pedro.larroy.li...@gmail.com> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> I agree with Tianqi, Eric and others. We shouldn't dilute the > > community > > > >>> with another forum. Disqus is already working and has healthy > > > >>> participation, you can get an email digest if you so desire. > > > Subscribing to > > > >>> a mailing list to get a question answered is quite a heavyweight > > > investment > > > >>> for many people and users who might not have the resources nor > mental > > > >>> bandwidth to receive more email volume in their inboxes. > > > >>> > > > >>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 10:19 AM Tianqi Chen < > > tqc...@cs.washington.edu > > > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>> > > > The problem of having multiple separate channels of communication > is > > > that > > > users get confused, and the cost of maintenance goes up(people > have > > to > > > watch both). As the current community was at discuss forum
Re: users@mxnet
+1 On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 8:43 AM Steffen Rochel wrote: > I had a discussion yesterday with Jun Wu (wujun@gmail.com) to get a > better understanding about the concerns raised, that users might get > confused and maintenance efforts. > I agree with Jim that building and fostering the community is important. > First of all, I suggest we should be open minded and not make claims that > we have a good understanding of user preferences. We might have insights > about preferences of current users (which I also would question as we > sampled only a small set), but we certainly don't have insight about the > preferences of new users we are trying to attract. > In such situation it might be better to run an experiment, offer choices > and collect real feedback - lets be customer focussed. > My suggestion is to establish a user@ list and support the list with a > volunteer subset of contributors and committers to minimize the maintenance > impact on the whole community. > After a reasonable time like 6 months we can evaluate the adoption of user@ > and effort to support and can make an informed, data driven decision how to > proceed. > > I recommend to create the user@ list and call for volunteers to support > the > list. > > Regards, > Steffen > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 8:10 AM Hagay Lupesko wrote: > > > Jim, > > > > Earlier on the thread you suggested to clarify and expand on the usage > of a > > user@ mailing list and how it is useful for a project. > > > > It may be helpful for the community to learn a bit more about it. Could > you > > expand and/or share relevant links and examples? > > > > Thank you, > > Hagay > > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 07:31 Jim Jagielski wrote: > > > > > Just so we are clear: building and fostering a community takes effort. > > > Either it is something important to the project, or it's not. > > > > > > My assumption is that It Is. > > > > > > > On Jun 18, 2018, at 8:59 PM, YiZhi Liu wrote: > > > > > > > > I am personally not a big fan of mailing list but agree with Thomas > > > > that we may get extra users, which worth a try. > > > > On the other hand, I also have concern that we do not have a > community > > > > big enough to support multiple forums. If people asked questions but > > > > got no response, that can be worse than not having the mailing list > at > > > > all. > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 5:46 PM Thomas DELTEIL > > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> I was actually the one stating that we didn't need a user mailing > list > > > >> during the Seattle meetup, given all the reasons already exposed > > above. > > > >> > > > >> However given what proponents of a mailing list said, I personally > > > wouldn't > > > >> mind adding a new channel as a user mailing list, and monitoring it. > > > There > > > >> seems to be a subset of users, used to apache projects, that > wouldn't > > > use > > > >> the forum but would use a mailing list. Though I think it is not as > > > >> feature-rich as the forum and there is a risk of dilution of > > > information. > > > >> It is more about reaching those extra users. If we see a dilution of > > > >> traffic on the forum towards the mailing list (~currently 100 > > > posts/week) > > > >> then maybe we can reconsider our assumptions? > > > >> > > > >> All the best, > > > >> > > > >> Thomas Delteil > > > >> > > > >> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 17:30 Pedro Larroy < > > pedro.larroy.li...@gmail.com> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> I agree with Tianqi, Eric and others. We shouldn't dilute the > > community > > > >>> with another forum. Disqus is already working and has healthy > > > >>> participation, you can get an email digest if you so desire. > > > Subscribing to > > > >>> a mailing list to get a question answered is quite a heavyweight > > > investment > > > >>> for many people and users who might not have the resources nor > mental > > > >>> bandwidth to receive more email volume in their inboxes. > > > >>> > > > >>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 10:19 AM Tianqi Chen < > > tqc...@cs.washington.edu > > > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>> > > > The problem of having multiple separate channels of communication > is > > > that > > > users get confused, and the cost of maintenance goes up(people > have > > to > > > watch both). As the current community was at discuss forum and > many > > > users > > > prefer it, having a mail-list is only a burden we will bring > > > > > > Tianqi > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Jim Jagielski > > > wrote: > > > > > > > IMO, that is the wrong way to look at it. > > > > > > > > A users@ mailing list is a great, easy, low-cost and > low-overhead > > > way > > > >>> of > > > > *increasing* the user community and providing an extra level of > > > >>> support. > > > > Unless there is "strong evidence" that this is NOT the case, I > > would > > > > recommend we create the list. > > > > > > > >> On Jun 16, 2018, at 12:28 AM, Tianqi Chen <
Re: users@mxnet
I had a discussion yesterday with Jun Wu (wujun@gmail.com) to get a better understanding about the concerns raised, that users might get confused and maintenance efforts. I agree with Jim that building and fostering the community is important. First of all, I suggest we should be open minded and not make claims that we have a good understanding of user preferences. We might have insights about preferences of current users (which I also would question as we sampled only a small set), but we certainly don't have insight about the preferences of new users we are trying to attract. In such situation it might be better to run an experiment, offer choices and collect real feedback - lets be customer focussed. My suggestion is to establish a user@ list and support the list with a volunteer subset of contributors and committers to minimize the maintenance impact on the whole community. After a reasonable time like 6 months we can evaluate the adoption of user@ and effort to support and can make an informed, data driven decision how to proceed. I recommend to create the user@ list and call for volunteers to support the list. Regards, Steffen On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 8:10 AM Hagay Lupesko wrote: > Jim, > > Earlier on the thread you suggested to clarify and expand on the usage of a > user@ mailing list and how it is useful for a project. > > It may be helpful for the community to learn a bit more about it. Could you > expand and/or share relevant links and examples? > > Thank you, > Hagay > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 07:31 Jim Jagielski wrote: > > > Just so we are clear: building and fostering a community takes effort. > > Either it is something important to the project, or it's not. > > > > My assumption is that It Is. > > > > > On Jun 18, 2018, at 8:59 PM, YiZhi Liu wrote: > > > > > > I am personally not a big fan of mailing list but agree with Thomas > > > that we may get extra users, which worth a try. > > > On the other hand, I also have concern that we do not have a community > > > big enough to support multiple forums. If people asked questions but > > > got no response, that can be worse than not having the mailing list at > > > all. > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 5:46 PM Thomas DELTEIL > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> I was actually the one stating that we didn't need a user mailing list > > >> during the Seattle meetup, given all the reasons already exposed > above. > > >> > > >> However given what proponents of a mailing list said, I personally > > wouldn't > > >> mind adding a new channel as a user mailing list, and monitoring it. > > There > > >> seems to be a subset of users, used to apache projects, that wouldn't > > use > > >> the forum but would use a mailing list. Though I think it is not as > > >> feature-rich as the forum and there is a risk of dilution of > > information. > > >> It is more about reaching those extra users. If we see a dilution of > > >> traffic on the forum towards the mailing list (~currently 100 > > posts/week) > > >> then maybe we can reconsider our assumptions? > > >> > > >> All the best, > > >> > > >> Thomas Delteil > > >> > > >> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 17:30 Pedro Larroy < > pedro.larroy.li...@gmail.com> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> I agree with Tianqi, Eric and others. We shouldn't dilute the > community > > >>> with another forum. Disqus is already working and has healthy > > >>> participation, you can get an email digest if you so desire. > > Subscribing to > > >>> a mailing list to get a question answered is quite a heavyweight > > investment > > >>> for many people and users who might not have the resources nor mental > > >>> bandwidth to receive more email volume in their inboxes. > > >>> > > >>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 10:19 AM Tianqi Chen < > tqc...@cs.washington.edu > > > > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > The problem of having multiple separate channels of communication is > > that > > users get confused, and the cost of maintenance goes up(people have > to > > watch both). As the current community was at discuss forum and many > > users > > prefer it, having a mail-list is only a burden we will bring > > > > Tianqi > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Jim Jagielski > > wrote: > > > > > IMO, that is the wrong way to look at it. > > > > > > A users@ mailing list is a great, easy, low-cost and low-overhead > > way > > >>> of > > > *increasing* the user community and providing an extra level of > > >>> support. > > > Unless there is "strong evidence" that this is NOT the case, I > would > > > recommend we create the list. > > > > > >> On Jun 16, 2018, at 12:28 AM, Tianqi Chen < > tqc...@cs.washington.edu > > > > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> So unless there is a strong evidence that our community users > > prefers > > the > > >> mail-list, I would recommend we keep the current way > > >> > > >> Tianqi > > >> > > >> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio
Re: users@mxnet
Jim, Earlier on the thread you suggested to clarify and expand on the usage of a user@ mailing list and how it is useful for a project. It may be helpful for the community to learn a bit more about it. Could you expand and/or share relevant links and examples? Thank you, Hagay On Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 07:31 Jim Jagielski wrote: > Just so we are clear: building and fostering a community takes effort. > Either it is something important to the project, or it's not. > > My assumption is that It Is. > > > On Jun 18, 2018, at 8:59 PM, YiZhi Liu wrote: > > > > I am personally not a big fan of mailing list but agree with Thomas > > that we may get extra users, which worth a try. > > On the other hand, I also have concern that we do not have a community > > big enough to support multiple forums. If people asked questions but > > got no response, that can be worse than not having the mailing list at > > all. > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 5:46 PM Thomas DELTEIL > > wrote: > >> > >> I was actually the one stating that we didn't need a user mailing list > >> during the Seattle meetup, given all the reasons already exposed above. > >> > >> However given what proponents of a mailing list said, I personally > wouldn't > >> mind adding a new channel as a user mailing list, and monitoring it. > There > >> seems to be a subset of users, used to apache projects, that wouldn't > use > >> the forum but would use a mailing list. Though I think it is not as > >> feature-rich as the forum and there is a risk of dilution of > information. > >> It is more about reaching those extra users. If we see a dilution of > >> traffic on the forum towards the mailing list (~currently 100 > posts/week) > >> then maybe we can reconsider our assumptions? > >> > >> All the best, > >> > >> Thomas Delteil > >> > >> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 17:30 Pedro Larroy > >> wrote: > >> > >>> I agree with Tianqi, Eric and others. We shouldn't dilute the community > >>> with another forum. Disqus is already working and has healthy > >>> participation, you can get an email digest if you so desire. > Subscribing to > >>> a mailing list to get a question answered is quite a heavyweight > investment > >>> for many people and users who might not have the resources nor mental > >>> bandwidth to receive more email volume in their inboxes. > >>> > >>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 10:19 AM Tianqi Chen > > >>> wrote: > >>> > The problem of having multiple separate channels of communication is > that > users get confused, and the cost of maintenance goes up(people have to > watch both). As the current community was at discuss forum and many > users > prefer it, having a mail-list is only a burden we will bring > > Tianqi > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Jim Jagielski > wrote: > > > IMO, that is the wrong way to look at it. > > > > A users@ mailing list is a great, easy, low-cost and low-overhead > way > >>> of > > *increasing* the user community and providing an extra level of > >>> support. > > Unless there is "strong evidence" that this is NOT the case, I would > > recommend we create the list. > > > >> On Jun 16, 2018, at 12:28 AM, Tianqi Chen > > > wrote: > >> > >> So unless there is a strong evidence that our community users > prefers > the > >> mail-list, I would recommend we keep the current way > >> > >> Tianqi > >> > >> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández < > wik...@apache.org > > > wrote: > >> > >>> Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope we > are > >>> thinking a bit beyond that... > >>> > >>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen > > wrote: > >>> > I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we did a > > survey, > and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would say > >>> we > >>> stick > with that given the user community prefers that > > Tianqi > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández < > >>> wik...@apache.org > > > wrote: > > > Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list creation > >>> to > INFRA > > ;-) > > > > Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also > >>> subscribed > there, > > since they may be the most informed people for answering users' > questions. > > But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest for > pure > > development purposes. Some discussions will jump from users@ to > dev@, > but > > at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing list to > >>> the > other. > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu > > wrote: > > > >> I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? > >> > >> I'd propose
Re: users@mxnet
Just so we are clear: building and fostering a community takes effort. Either it is something important to the project, or it's not. My assumption is that It Is. > On Jun 18, 2018, at 8:59 PM, YiZhi Liu wrote: > > I am personally not a big fan of mailing list but agree with Thomas > that we may get extra users, which worth a try. > On the other hand, I also have concern that we do not have a community > big enough to support multiple forums. If people asked questions but > got no response, that can be worse than not having the mailing list at > all. > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 5:46 PM Thomas DELTEIL > wrote: >> >> I was actually the one stating that we didn't need a user mailing list >> during the Seattle meetup, given all the reasons already exposed above. >> >> However given what proponents of a mailing list said, I personally wouldn't >> mind adding a new channel as a user mailing list, and monitoring it. There >> seems to be a subset of users, used to apache projects, that wouldn't use >> the forum but would use a mailing list. Though I think it is not as >> feature-rich as the forum and there is a risk of dilution of information. >> It is more about reaching those extra users. If we see a dilution of >> traffic on the forum towards the mailing list (~currently 100 posts/week) >> then maybe we can reconsider our assumptions? >> >> All the best, >> >> Thomas Delteil >> >> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 17:30 Pedro Larroy >> wrote: >> >>> I agree with Tianqi, Eric and others. We shouldn't dilute the community >>> with another forum. Disqus is already working and has healthy >>> participation, you can get an email digest if you so desire. Subscribing to >>> a mailing list to get a question answered is quite a heavyweight investment >>> for many people and users who might not have the resources nor mental >>> bandwidth to receive more email volume in their inboxes. >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 10:19 AM Tianqi Chen >>> wrote: >>> The problem of having multiple separate channels of communication is that users get confused, and the cost of maintenance goes up(people have to watch both). As the current community was at discuss forum and many users prefer it, having a mail-list is only a burden we will bring Tianqi On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote: > IMO, that is the wrong way to look at it. > > A users@ mailing list is a great, easy, low-cost and low-overhead way >>> of > *increasing* the user community and providing an extra level of >>> support. > Unless there is "strong evidence" that this is NOT the case, I would > recommend we create the list. > >> On Jun 16, 2018, at 12:28 AM, Tianqi Chen > wrote: >> >> So unless there is a strong evidence that our community users prefers the >> mail-list, I would recommend we keep the current way >> >> Tianqi >> >> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández >>> > wrote: >> >>> Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope we are >>> thinking a bit beyond that... >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen > wrote: >>> I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we did a > survey, and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would say >>> we >>> stick with that given the user community prefers that Tianqi On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández < >>> wik...@apache.org > wrote: > Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list creation >>> to INFRA > ;-) > > Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also >>> subscribed there, > since they may be the most informed people for answering users' questions. > But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest for pure > development purposes. Some discussions will jump from users@ to dev@, but > at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing list to >>> the other. > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu > wrote: > >> I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? >> >> I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to dev@ to >>> ensure >> high >> visibility initially. What do you think? >> >> Sebastian schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni 2018, 20:51: >> >>> I have already proposed this many times in the past and would strongly >>> encourage it. >>> >>> -s >>> >>> On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fernández wrote: Hi, is there any good reason why the podling doesn't have a users@ > mailing >>> list yet?
Re: users@mxnet
I am personally not a big fan of mailing list but agree with Thomas that we may get extra users, which worth a try. On the other hand, I also have concern that we do not have a community big enough to support multiple forums. If people asked questions but got no response, that can be worse than not having the mailing list at all. On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 5:46 PM Thomas DELTEIL wrote: > > I was actually the one stating that we didn't need a user mailing list > during the Seattle meetup, given all the reasons already exposed above. > > However given what proponents of a mailing list said, I personally wouldn't > mind adding a new channel as a user mailing list, and monitoring it. There > seems to be a subset of users, used to apache projects, that wouldn't use > the forum but would use a mailing list. Though I think it is not as > feature-rich as the forum and there is a risk of dilution of information. > It is more about reaching those extra users. If we see a dilution of > traffic on the forum towards the mailing list (~currently 100 posts/week) > then maybe we can reconsider our assumptions? > > All the best, > > Thomas Delteil > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 17:30 Pedro Larroy > wrote: > > > I agree with Tianqi, Eric and others. We shouldn't dilute the community > > with another forum. Disqus is already working and has healthy > > participation, you can get an email digest if you so desire. Subscribing to > > a mailing list to get a question answered is quite a heavyweight investment > > for many people and users who might not have the resources nor mental > > bandwidth to receive more email volume in their inboxes. > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 10:19 AM Tianqi Chen > > wrote: > > > > > The problem of having multiple separate channels of communication is that > > > users get confused, and the cost of maintenance goes up(people have to > > > watch both). As the current community was at discuss forum and many users > > > prefer it, having a mail-list is only a burden we will bring > > > > > > Tianqi > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote: > > > > > > > IMO, that is the wrong way to look at it. > > > > > > > > A users@ mailing list is a great, easy, low-cost and low-overhead way > > of > > > > *increasing* the user community and providing an extra level of > > support. > > > > Unless there is "strong evidence" that this is NOT the case, I would > > > > recommend we create the list. > > > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2018, at 12:28 AM, Tianqi Chen > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > So unless there is a strong evidence that our community users prefers > > > the > > > > > mail-list, I would recommend we keep the current way > > > > > > > > > > Tianqi > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope we are > > > > >> thinking a bit beyond that... > > > > >> > > > > >> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen > > > > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>> I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we did a > > > > survey, > > > > >>> and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would say > > we > > > > >> stick > > > > >>> with that given the user community prefers that > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Tianqi > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández < > > wik...@apache.org > > > > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list creation > > to > > > > >>> INFRA > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also > > subscribed > > > > >>> there, > > > > since they may be the most informed people for answering users' > > > > >>> questions. > > > > But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest for pure > > > > development purposes. Some discussions will jump from users@ to > > > dev@, > > > > >>> but > > > > at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing list to > > the > > > > >>> other. > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? > > > > > > > > > > I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to dev@ to > > > > >> ensure > > > > > high > > > > > visibility initially. What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > Sebastian schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni 2018, 20:51: > > > > > > > > > >> I have already proposed this many times in the past and would > > > > >>> strongly > > > > >> encourage it. > > > > >> > > > > >> -s > > > > >> > > > > >> On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fernández wrote: > > > > >>> Hi, > > > > >>> > > > > >>> is there any good reason why the podling doesn't have a users@ > > > > mailing > > > > >> list > > > > >>> yet? > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Honestly speaking, I'm not a big
Re: users@mxnet
I was actually the one stating that we didn't need a user mailing list during the Seattle meetup, given all the reasons already exposed above. However given what proponents of a mailing list said, I personally wouldn't mind adding a new channel as a user mailing list, and monitoring it. There seems to be a subset of users, used to apache projects, that wouldn't use the forum but would use a mailing list. Though I think it is not as feature-rich as the forum and there is a risk of dilution of information. It is more about reaching those extra users. If we see a dilution of traffic on the forum towards the mailing list (~currently 100 posts/week) then maybe we can reconsider our assumptions? All the best, Thomas Delteil On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 17:30 Pedro Larroy wrote: > I agree with Tianqi, Eric and others. We shouldn't dilute the community > with another forum. Disqus is already working and has healthy > participation, you can get an email digest if you so desire. Subscribing to > a mailing list to get a question answered is quite a heavyweight investment > for many people and users who might not have the resources nor mental > bandwidth to receive more email volume in their inboxes. > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 10:19 AM Tianqi Chen > wrote: > > > The problem of having multiple separate channels of communication is that > > users get confused, and the cost of maintenance goes up(people have to > > watch both). As the current community was at discuss forum and many users > > prefer it, having a mail-list is only a burden we will bring > > > > Tianqi > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote: > > > > > IMO, that is the wrong way to look at it. > > > > > > A users@ mailing list is a great, easy, low-cost and low-overhead way > of > > > *increasing* the user community and providing an extra level of > support. > > > Unless there is "strong evidence" that this is NOT the case, I would > > > recommend we create the list. > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2018, at 12:28 AM, Tianqi Chen > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > So unless there is a strong evidence that our community users prefers > > the > > > > mail-list, I would recommend we keep the current way > > > > > > > > Tianqi > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope we are > > > >> thinking a bit beyond that... > > > >> > > > >> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we did a > > > survey, > > > >>> and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would say > we > > > >> stick > > > >>> with that given the user community prefers that > > > >>> > > > >>> Tianqi > > > >>> > > > >>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández < > wik...@apache.org > > > > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>> > > > Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list creation > to > > > >>> INFRA > > > ;-) > > > > > > Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also > subscribed > > > >>> there, > > > since they may be the most informed people for answering users' > > > >>> questions. > > > But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest for pure > > > development purposes. Some discussions will jump from users@ to > > dev@, > > > >>> but > > > at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing list to > the > > > >>> other. > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? > > > > > > > > I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to dev@ to > > > >> ensure > > > > high > > > > visibility initially. What do you think? > > > > > > > > Sebastian schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni 2018, 20:51: > > > > > > > >> I have already proposed this many times in the past and would > > > >>> strongly > > > >> encourage it. > > > >> > > > >> -s > > > >> > > > >> On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fernández wrote: > > > >>> Hi, > > > >>> > > > >>> is there any good reason why the podling doesn't have a users@ > > > mailing > > > >> list > > > >>> yet? > > > >>> > > > >>> Honestly speaking, I'm not a big fan of the other tools the > > > >> podling > > > is > > > >>> using. Slack and Web forums a cool tools, and I used them a lot > > > >> in > > > > other > > > >>> contexts. But when it comes to transparency and community, > > > >> mailing > > > > lists > > > >>> play a crucial role in the Apache Way. > > > >>> > > > >>> Users are the most important asset a project can have. Even > more > > > >>> than > > > >>> developers, believe me. So I think it's time to create a users@ > > > > mailing > > > >>> list for to helping MXNet grow its community beyong the core > > > >> team. > > >
Re: users@mxnet
I agree with Tianqi, Eric and others. We shouldn't dilute the community with another forum. Disqus is already working and has healthy participation, you can get an email digest if you so desire. Subscribing to a mailing list to get a question answered is quite a heavyweight investment for many people and users who might not have the resources nor mental bandwidth to receive more email volume in their inboxes. On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 10:19 AM Tianqi Chen wrote: > The problem of having multiple separate channels of communication is that > users get confused, and the cost of maintenance goes up(people have to > watch both). As the current community was at discuss forum and many users > prefer it, having a mail-list is only a burden we will bring > > Tianqi > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote: > > > IMO, that is the wrong way to look at it. > > > > A users@ mailing list is a great, easy, low-cost and low-overhead way of > > *increasing* the user community and providing an extra level of support. > > Unless there is "strong evidence" that this is NOT the case, I would > > recommend we create the list. > > > > > On Jun 16, 2018, at 12:28 AM, Tianqi Chen > > wrote: > > > > > > So unless there is a strong evidence that our community users prefers > the > > > mail-list, I would recommend we keep the current way > > > > > > Tianqi > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández > > wrote: > > > > > >> Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope we are > > >> thinking a bit beyond that... > > >> > > >> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen > > wrote: > > >> > > >>> I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we did a > > survey, > > >>> and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would say we > > >> stick > > >>> with that given the user community prefers that > > >>> > > >>> Tianqi > > >>> > > >>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández > > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list creation to > > >>> INFRA > > ;-) > > > > Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also subscribed > > >>> there, > > since they may be the most informed people for answering users' > > >>> questions. > > But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest for pure > > development purposes. Some discussions will jump from users@ to > dev@, > > >>> but > > at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing list to the > > >>> other. > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu > > wrote: > > > > > I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? > > > > > > I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to dev@ to > > >> ensure > > > high > > > visibility initially. What do you think? > > > > > > Sebastian schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni 2018, 20:51: > > > > > >> I have already proposed this many times in the past and would > > >>> strongly > > >> encourage it. > > >> > > >> -s > > >> > > >> On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fernández wrote: > > >>> Hi, > > >>> > > >>> is there any good reason why the podling doesn't have a users@ > > mailing > > >> list > > >>> yet? > > >>> > > >>> Honestly speaking, I'm not a big fan of the other tools the > > >> podling > > is > > >>> using. Slack and Web forums a cool tools, and I used them a lot > > >> in > > > other > > >>> contexts. But when it comes to transparency and community, > > >> mailing > > > lists > > >>> play a crucial role in the Apache Way. > > >>> > > >>> Users are the most important asset a project can have. Even more > > >>> than > > >>> developers, believe me. So I think it's time to create a users@ > > > mailing > > >>> list for to helping MXNet grow its community beyong the core > > >> team. > > >>> > > >>> Cheers, > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > > >>> > > >> > > > > >
Re: users@mxnet
"Mailing list is an obsolete legacy for old projects"... Not true. If you don't understand the reason and rationale and *benefits* of using a mailing list, and why they are so core to how Apache runs projects, I'd be happy to provide some data. > On Jun 18, 2018, at 2:53 PM, Eric Xie wrote: > > Neither TF nor Pytorch uses mailing lists though. In fact I can't think of > any deep learning community that uses mailing lists. Mailing list is an > obsolete legacy for old projects. No point in bringing it into new projects. > > Thanks, > Eric > > On 2018/06/18 18:42:12, Sebastian wrote: >> I am puzzled by the reluctance of this project to setup a user >> mailinglist to be honest. >> >> MXNet has major issues with attracting a community outside of Amazon >> (whenever I hear folks talking about deep learning, they usually mention >> tensorflow, pytorch and keras, but I rarely hear someone talk about >> MXNet). At the same time, there is so much resistance to adopt practices >> that are successfully used by many high-profile toplevel projects... >> >> -s >> >> On 18.06.2018 20:37, Timur Shenkao wrote: >>> Facebook is definitely a bad idea: we will be dependent on third party >>> provider + unclear who & how manages such group etc. >>> Forum + Confluence + Slack is much better then. >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 7:17 PM, Ivan Serdyuk >>> wrote: >>> Greetings Barber, Christopher. I had an idea to move out some discussions, covering Java and Scala API, to Facebook. So if somewhere exists a local JUG or Scala user group - they could reflect the topic of discussion. But background stuff could take place on mailing lists, Slack, forum, whatever. The reverse mechanism could be used to involve new committers, as well (so they would appear as presented newcomers, as for contributions). Regards Ivan On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:40 PM, Barber, Christopher < christopher.bar...@analog.com> wrote: > I don't understand why you would want a users mailing list when you > already have discussion forums. Users that want to be notified of new posts > on the forum can configure their notification preferences appropriately. > The traffic on the forums is already pretty low. I would think you would > not want to dilute that further. > > Christopher > > On 6/18/18, 1:27 PM, "Jim Jagielski" wrote: > > users@ mailing lists have great societal advantages that one > shouldn't ignore... > > And it's not like this is the only project with "multiple" > communication choices for users. Most, if not all, projects have users@in > addition to such supplemental methods as IRC channels, a forum, etc... It's > about making it easy to have as many users as possible and as many > potential ways for users to communicate. It's not confusing; it's > empowering :) > >> On Jun 18, 2018, at 1:19 PM, Tianqi Chen > wrote: >> >> The problem of having multiple separate channels of communication is > that >> users get confused, and the cost of maintenance goes up(people have > to >> watch both). As the current community was at discuss forum and many > users >> prefer it, having a mail-list is only a burden we will bring >> >> Tianqi >> >> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Jim Jagielski > wrote: >> >>> IMO, that is the wrong way to look at it. >>> >>> A users@ mailing list is a great, easy, low-cost and low-overhead > way of >>> *increasing* the user community and providing an extra level of > support. >>> Unless there is "strong evidence" that this is NOT the case, I would >>> recommend we create the list. >>> On Jun 16, 2018, at 12:28 AM, Tianqi Chen < > tqc...@cs.washington.edu> >>> wrote: So unless there is a strong evidence that our community users > prefers the mail-list, I would recommend we keep the current way Tianqi On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández < > wik...@apache.org> >>> wrote: > Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope we > are > thinking a bit beyond that... > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen < tqc...@cs.washington.edu >> >>> wrote: > >> I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we did a >>> survey, >> and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would > say we > stick >> with that given the user community prefers that >> >> Tianqi >> >> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández < > wik...@apache.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list > creation
Re: users@mxnet
I like the idea to have a user mail list, it should be able to cover the user segment who prefer to use mail lists. Though my concern is how many of us will be volunteered to maintain this list. We have several contributors actively maintain the forum, including Sina, Thom, and Thomas. We need more volunteers if adding another mail list to guarantee great user experience. On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 11:53 AM, Eric Xie wrote: > Neither TF nor Pytorch uses mailing lists though. In fact I can't think of > any deep learning community that uses mailing lists. Mailing list is an > obsolete legacy for old projects. No point in bringing it into new projects. > > Thanks, > Eric > > On 2018/06/18 18:42:12, Sebastian wrote: > > I am puzzled by the reluctance of this project to setup a user > > mailinglist to be honest. > > > > MXNet has major issues with attracting a community outside of Amazon > > (whenever I hear folks talking about deep learning, they usually mention > > tensorflow, pytorch and keras, but I rarely hear someone talk about > > MXNet). At the same time, there is so much resistance to adopt practices > > that are successfully used by many high-profile toplevel projects... > > > > -s > > > > On 18.06.2018 20:37, Timur Shenkao wrote: > > > Facebook is definitely a bad idea: we will be dependent on third party > > > provider + unclear who & how manages such group etc. > > > Forum + Confluence + Slack is much better then. > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 7:17 PM, Ivan Serdyuk < > local.tourist.k...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Greetings Barber, Christopher. I had an idea to move out some > discussions, > > >> covering Java and Scala API, to Facebook. So if somewhere exists a > local > > >> JUG or Scala user group - they could reflect the topic of discussion. > But > > >> background stuff could take place on mailing lists, Slack, forum, > whatever. > > >> The reverse mechanism could be used to involve new committers, as > well (so > > >> they would appear as presented newcomers, as for contributions). > > >> > > >> Regards > > >> Ivan > > >> > > >> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:40 PM, Barber, Christopher < > > >> christopher.bar...@analog.com> wrote: > > >> > > >>> I don't understand why you would want a users mailing list when you > > >>> already have discussion forums. Users that want to be notified of new > > >> posts > > >>> on the forum can configure their notification preferences > appropriately. > > >>> The traffic on the forums is already pretty low. I would think you > would > > >>> not want to dilute that further. > > >>> > > >>> Christopher > > >>> > > >>> On 6/18/18, 1:27 PM, "Jim Jagielski" wrote: > > >>> > > >>> users@ mailing lists have great societal advantages that one > > >>> shouldn't ignore... > > >>> > > >>> And it's not like this is the only project with "multiple" > > >>> communication choices for users. Most, if not all, projects have > users@in > > >>> addition to such supplemental methods as IRC channels, a forum, > etc... > > >> It's > > >>> about making it easy to have as many users as possible and as many > > >>> potential ways for users to communicate. It's not confusing; it's > > >>> empowering :) > > >>> > > >>> > On Jun 18, 2018, at 1:19 PM, Tianqi Chen < > tqc...@cs.washington.edu > > >>> > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > > >>> > The problem of having multiple separate channels of > communication > > >> is > > >>> that > > >>> > users get confused, and the cost of maintenance goes > up(people have > > >>> to > > >>> > watch both). As the current community was at discuss forum > and many > > >>> users > > >>> > prefer it, having a mail-list is only a burden we will bring > > >>> > > > >>> > Tianqi > > >>> > > > >>> > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Jim Jagielski < > j...@jagunet.com> > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > > >>> >> IMO, that is the wrong way to look at it. > > >>> >> > > >>> >> A users@ mailing list is a great, easy, low-cost and > low-overhead > > >>> way of > > >>> >> *increasing* the user community and providing an extra level > of > > >>> support. > > >>> >> Unless there is "strong evidence" that this is NOT the case, > I > > >> would > > >>> >> recommend we create the list. > > >>> >> > > >>> >>> On Jun 16, 2018, at 12:28 AM, Tianqi Chen < > > >>> tqc...@cs.washington.edu> > > >>> >> wrote: > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> So unless there is a strong evidence that our community > users > > >>> prefers the > > >>> >>> mail-list, I would recommend we keep the current way > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> Tianqi > > >>> >>> > > >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández < > > >>> wik...@apache.org> > > >>> >> wrote: > > >>> >>> > > >>> Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really > hope we > > >>> are > > >>> thinking a bit beyond that... > > >>> > > >>> On Fri,
Re: users@mxnet
Well, there is a trend to for speaking about MXNet (Ukraine). At least I have visited a meetup (with a workshop). On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:42 PM, Sebastian wrote: > I am puzzled by the reluctance of this project to setup a user mailinglist > to be honest. > > MXNet has major issues with attracting a community outside of Amazon > (whenever I hear folks talking about deep learning, they usually mention > tensorflow, pytorch and keras, but I rarely hear someone talk about MXNet). > At the same time, there is so much resistance to adopt practices that are > successfully used by many high-profile toplevel projects... > > -s > > > On 18.06.2018 20:37, Timur Shenkao wrote: > >> Facebook is definitely a bad idea: we will be dependent on third party >> provider + unclear who & how manages such group etc. >> Forum + Confluence + Slack is much better then. >> >> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 7:17 PM, Ivan Serdyuk < >> local.tourist.k...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Greetings Barber, Christopher. I had an idea to move out some discussions, >>> covering Java and Scala API, to Facebook. So if somewhere exists a local >>> JUG or Scala user group - they could reflect the topic of discussion. But >>> background stuff could take place on mailing lists, Slack, forum, >>> whatever. >>> The reverse mechanism could be used to involve new committers, as well >>> (so >>> they would appear as presented newcomers, as for contributions). >>> >>> Regards >>> Ivan >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:40 PM, Barber, Christopher < >>> christopher.bar...@analog.com> wrote: >>> >>> I don't understand why you would want a users mailing list when you already have discussion forums. Users that want to be notified of new >>> posts >>> on the forum can configure their notification preferences appropriately. The traffic on the forums is already pretty low. I would think you would not want to dilute that further. Christopher On 6/18/18, 1:27 PM, "Jim Jagielski" wrote: users@ mailing lists have great societal advantages that one shouldn't ignore... And it's not like this is the only project with "multiple" communication choices for users. Most, if not all, projects have users@in addition to such supplemental methods as IRC channels, a forum, etc... >>> It's >>> about making it easy to have as many users as possible and as many potential ways for users to communicate. It's not confusing; it's empowering :) > On Jun 18, 2018, at 1:19 PM, Tianqi Chen < tqc...@cs.washington.edu wrote: > > The problem of having multiple separate channels of communication >>> is >>> that > users get confused, and the cost of maintenance goes up(people have to > watch both). As the current community was at discuss forum and many users > prefer it, having a mail-list is only a burden we will bring > > Tianqi > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote: > >> IMO, that is the wrong way to look at it. >> >> A users@ mailing list is a great, easy, low-cost and low-overhead way of >> *increasing* the user community and providing an extra level of support. >> Unless there is "strong evidence" that this is NOT the case, I >>> would >>> >> recommend we create the list. >> >>> On Jun 16, 2018, at 12:28 AM, Tianqi Chen < tqc...@cs.washington.edu> >> wrote: >>> >>> So unless there is a strong evidence that our community users prefers the >>> mail-list, I would recommend we keep the current way >>> >>> Tianqi >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández < wik...@apache.org> >> wrote: >>> Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope we are thinking a bit beyond that... On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen < >>> tqc...@cs.washington.edu >>> > >> wrote: > I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we >>> did a >>> >> survey, > and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would say we stick > with that given the user community prefers that > > Tianqi > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández < wik...@apache.org> > wrote: > >> Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list creation to > INFRA >> ;-) >> >> Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also
Re: users@mxnet
Neither TF nor Pytorch uses mailing lists though. In fact I can't think of any deep learning community that uses mailing lists. Mailing list is an obsolete legacy for old projects. No point in bringing it into new projects. Thanks, Eric On 2018/06/18 18:42:12, Sebastian wrote: > I am puzzled by the reluctance of this project to setup a user > mailinglist to be honest. > > MXNet has major issues with attracting a community outside of Amazon > (whenever I hear folks talking about deep learning, they usually mention > tensorflow, pytorch and keras, but I rarely hear someone talk about > MXNet). At the same time, there is so much resistance to adopt practices > that are successfully used by many high-profile toplevel projects... > > -s > > On 18.06.2018 20:37, Timur Shenkao wrote: > > Facebook is definitely a bad idea: we will be dependent on third party > > provider + unclear who & how manages such group etc. > > Forum + Confluence + Slack is much better then. > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 7:17 PM, Ivan Serdyuk > > wrote: > > > >> Greetings Barber, Christopher. I had an idea to move out some discussions, > >> covering Java and Scala API, to Facebook. So if somewhere exists a local > >> JUG or Scala user group - they could reflect the topic of discussion. But > >> background stuff could take place on mailing lists, Slack, forum, whatever. > >> The reverse mechanism could be used to involve new committers, as well (so > >> they would appear as presented newcomers, as for contributions). > >> > >> Regards > >> Ivan > >> > >> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:40 PM, Barber, Christopher < > >> christopher.bar...@analog.com> wrote: > >> > >>> I don't understand why you would want a users mailing list when you > >>> already have discussion forums. Users that want to be notified of new > >> posts > >>> on the forum can configure their notification preferences appropriately. > >>> The traffic on the forums is already pretty low. I would think you would > >>> not want to dilute that further. > >>> > >>> Christopher > >>> > >>> On 6/18/18, 1:27 PM, "Jim Jagielski" wrote: > >>> > >>> users@ mailing lists have great societal advantages that one > >>> shouldn't ignore... > >>> > >>> And it's not like this is the only project with "multiple" > >>> communication choices for users. Most, if not all, projects have users@in > >>> addition to such supplemental methods as IRC channels, a forum, etc... > >> It's > >>> about making it easy to have as many users as possible and as many > >>> potential ways for users to communicate. It's not confusing; it's > >>> empowering :) > >>> > >>> > On Jun 18, 2018, at 1:19 PM, Tianqi Chen >>> > >>> wrote: > >>> > > >>> > The problem of having multiple separate channels of communication > >> is > >>> that > >>> > users get confused, and the cost of maintenance goes up(people have > >>> to > >>> > watch both). As the current community was at discuss forum and many > >>> users > >>> > prefer it, having a mail-list is only a burden we will bring > >>> > > >>> > Tianqi > >>> > > >>> > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Jim Jagielski > >>> wrote: > >>> > > >>> >> IMO, that is the wrong way to look at it. > >>> >> > >>> >> A users@ mailing list is a great, easy, low-cost and low-overhead > >>> way of > >>> >> *increasing* the user community and providing an extra level of > >>> support. > >>> >> Unless there is "strong evidence" that this is NOT the case, I > >> would > >>> >> recommend we create the list. > >>> >> > >>> >>> On Jun 16, 2018, at 12:28 AM, Tianqi Chen < > >>> tqc...@cs.washington.edu> > >>> >> wrote: > >>> >>> > >>> >>> So unless there is a strong evidence that our community users > >>> prefers the > >>> >>> mail-list, I would recommend we keep the current way > >>> >>> > >>> >>> Tianqi > >>> >>> > >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández < > >>> wik...@apache.org> > >>> >> wrote: > >>> >>> > >>> Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope we > >>> are > >>> thinking a bit beyond that... > >>> > >>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen < > >> tqc...@cs.washington.edu > > >>> >> wrote: > >>> > >>> > I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we > >> did a > >>> >> survey, > >>> > and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would > >>> say we > >>> stick > >>> > with that given the user community prefers that > >>> > > >>> > Tianqi > >>> > > >>> > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández < > >>> wik...@apache.org> > >>> > wrote: > >>> > > >>> >> Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list > >>> creation to > >>> > INFRA > >>> >> ;-) > >>> >> >
Re: users@mxnet
IMHO, the approach(mail list or discuss) have nothing to do with the popularity of the project. If you look at TF or pytorch you mentioned. Pytorch uses discuss forum and slack, tf uses stackoverflow for support. Both are popular but not adopting maillist. Note that I know both are both not apache projects, but just to show that the popularity of the project do not necessarily have to go with the setup of maillist Tianqi On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 11:42 AM Sebastian wrote: > I am puzzled by the reluctance of this project to setup a user > mailinglist to be honest. > > MXNet has major issues with attracting a community outside of Amazon > (whenever I hear folks talking about deep learning, they usually mention > tensorflow, pytorch and keras, but I rarely hear someone talk about > MXNet). At the same time, there is so much resistance to adopt practices > that are successfully used by many high-profile toplevel projects... > > -s > > On 18.06.2018 20:37, Timur Shenkao wrote: > > Facebook is definitely a bad idea: we will be dependent on third party > > provider + unclear who & how manages such group etc. > > Forum + Confluence + Slack is much better then. > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 7:17 PM, Ivan Serdyuk < > local.tourist.k...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > >> Greetings Barber, Christopher. I had an idea to move out some > discussions, > >> covering Java and Scala API, to Facebook. So if somewhere exists a local > >> JUG or Scala user group - they could reflect the topic of discussion. > But > >> background stuff could take place on mailing lists, Slack, forum, > whatever. > >> The reverse mechanism could be used to involve new committers, as well > (so > >> they would appear as presented newcomers, as for contributions). > >> > >> Regards > >> Ivan > >> > >> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:40 PM, Barber, Christopher < > >> christopher.bar...@analog.com> wrote: > >> > >>> I don't understand why you would want a users mailing list when you > >>> already have discussion forums. Users that want to be notified of new > >> posts > >>> on the forum can configure their notification preferences > appropriately. > >>> The traffic on the forums is already pretty low. I would think you > would > >>> not want to dilute that further. > >>> > >>> Christopher > >>> > >>> On 6/18/18, 1:27 PM, "Jim Jagielski" wrote: > >>> > >>> users@ mailing lists have great societal advantages that one > >>> shouldn't ignore... > >>> > >>> And it's not like this is the only project with "multiple" > >>> communication choices for users. Most, if not all, projects have > users@in > >>> addition to such supplemental methods as IRC channels, a forum, etc... > >> It's > >>> about making it easy to have as many users as possible and as many > >>> potential ways for users to communicate. It's not confusing; it's > >>> empowering :) > >>> > >>> > On Jun 18, 2018, at 1:19 PM, Tianqi Chen < > tqc...@cs.washington.edu > >>> > >>> wrote: > >>> > > >>> > The problem of having multiple separate channels of > communication > >> is > >>> that > >>> > users get confused, and the cost of maintenance goes up(people > have > >>> to > >>> > watch both). As the current community was at discuss forum and > many > >>> users > >>> > prefer it, having a mail-list is only a burden we will bring > >>> > > >>> > Tianqi > >>> > > >>> > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Jim Jagielski > > >>> wrote: > >>> > > >>> >> IMO, that is the wrong way to look at it. > >>> >> > >>> >> A users@ mailing list is a great, easy, low-cost and > low-overhead > >>> way of > >>> >> *increasing* the user community and providing an extra level of > >>> support. > >>> >> Unless there is "strong evidence" that this is NOT the case, I > >> would > >>> >> recommend we create the list. > >>> >> > >>> >>> On Jun 16, 2018, at 12:28 AM, Tianqi Chen < > >>> tqc...@cs.washington.edu> > >>> >> wrote: > >>> >>> > >>> >>> So unless there is a strong evidence that our community users > >>> prefers the > >>> >>> mail-list, I would recommend we keep the current way > >>> >>> > >>> >>> Tianqi > >>> >>> > >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández < > >>> wik...@apache.org> > >>> >> wrote: > >>> >>> > >>> Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really > hope we > >>> are > >>> thinking a bit beyond that... > >>> > >>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen < > >> tqc...@cs.washington.edu > > >>> >> wrote: > >>> > >>> > I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we > >> did a > >>> >> survey, > >>> > and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I > would > >>> say we > >>> stick > >>> > with that given the user community prefers that > >>> > > >>> > Tianqi > >>> > > >>>
Re: users@mxnet
Whatever you do, make sure to list all these information sources in one easy-to-find place. For instance, it may not be very obvious to anyone that they can read the dev mailing list on lists.apache.org. It is bad if users aren't even aware that other channels exist. On 6/18/18, 2:45 PM, "Yasser Zamani" wrote: On 6/18/2018 9:18 PM, Jim Jagielski wrote: > IMO, that is the wrong way to look at it. > > A users@ mailing list is a great, easy, low-cost and low-overhead way of *increasing* the user community and providing an extra level of support. Unless there is "strong evidence" that this is NOT the case, I would recommend we create the list. As an already Apache Committer of Struts, I also prefer mail list like Jim. I fell in love with MXNet and I'm still learning hard to being able to have contributions one day. It was somehow hard for me to also register and daily monitor another system (your user forum). My feel was same as your current feel about a new mail list, but, I remembered one rule in Apache Way: "At Apache, deciders are who do the work". And as I didn't have any contribution till that time, then I thought I must respect your decision, so I registered there! However, I personally still recommend sticking together with Apache INFRA under Apache Way umbrella as much as possible. I think these help us to standardize things, understanding each other better and finally get a graduation from Apache Incubator. Anyway, finally, you who have done or do the work, are deciders :) Best Regards.
Re: users@mxnet
On 6/18/2018 9:18 PM, Jim Jagielski wrote: > IMO, that is the wrong way to look at it. > > A users@ mailing list is a great, easy, low-cost and low-overhead way of > *increasing* the user community and providing an extra level of support. > Unless there is "strong evidence" that this is NOT the case, I would > recommend we create the list. As an already Apache Committer of Struts, I also prefer mail list like Jim. I fell in love with MXNet and I'm still learning hard to being able to have contributions one day. It was somehow hard for me to also register and daily monitor another system (your user forum). My feel was same as your current feel about a new mail list, but, I remembered one rule in Apache Way: "At Apache, deciders are who do the work". And as I didn't have any contribution till that time, then I thought I must respect your decision, so I registered there! However, I personally still recommend sticking together with Apache INFRA under Apache Way umbrella as much as possible. I think these help us to standardize things, understanding each other better and finally get a graduation from Apache Incubator. Anyway, finally, you who have done or do the work, are deciders :) Best Regards.
Re: users@mxnet
I am puzzled by the reluctance of this project to setup a user mailinglist to be honest. MXNet has major issues with attracting a community outside of Amazon (whenever I hear folks talking about deep learning, they usually mention tensorflow, pytorch and keras, but I rarely hear someone talk about MXNet). At the same time, there is so much resistance to adopt practices that are successfully used by many high-profile toplevel projects... -s On 18.06.2018 20:37, Timur Shenkao wrote: Facebook is definitely a bad idea: we will be dependent on third party provider + unclear who & how manages such group etc. Forum + Confluence + Slack is much better then. On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 7:17 PM, Ivan Serdyuk wrote: Greetings Barber, Christopher. I had an idea to move out some discussions, covering Java and Scala API, to Facebook. So if somewhere exists a local JUG or Scala user group - they could reflect the topic of discussion. But background stuff could take place on mailing lists, Slack, forum, whatever. The reverse mechanism could be used to involve new committers, as well (so they would appear as presented newcomers, as for contributions). Regards Ivan On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:40 PM, Barber, Christopher < christopher.bar...@analog.com> wrote: I don't understand why you would want a users mailing list when you already have discussion forums. Users that want to be notified of new posts on the forum can configure their notification preferences appropriately. The traffic on the forums is already pretty low. I would think you would not want to dilute that further. Christopher On 6/18/18, 1:27 PM, "Jim Jagielski" wrote: users@ mailing lists have great societal advantages that one shouldn't ignore... And it's not like this is the only project with "multiple" communication choices for users. Most, if not all, projects have users@in addition to such supplemental methods as IRC channels, a forum, etc... It's about making it easy to have as many users as possible and as many potential ways for users to communicate. It's not confusing; it's empowering :) > On Jun 18, 2018, at 1:19 PM, Tianqi Chen > The problem of having multiple separate channels of communication is that > users get confused, and the cost of maintenance goes up(people have to > watch both). As the current community was at discuss forum and many users > prefer it, having a mail-list is only a burden we will bring > > Tianqi > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote: > >> IMO, that is the wrong way to look at it. >> >> A users@ mailing list is a great, easy, low-cost and low-overhead way of >> *increasing* the user community and providing an extra level of support. >> Unless there is "strong evidence" that this is NOT the case, I would >> recommend we create the list. >> >>> On Jun 16, 2018, at 12:28 AM, Tianqi Chen < tqc...@cs.washington.edu> >> wrote: >>> >>> So unless there is a strong evidence that our community users prefers the >>> mail-list, I would recommend we keep the current way >>> >>> Tianqi >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández < wik...@apache.org> >> wrote: >>> Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope we are thinking a bit beyond that... On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen < tqc...@cs.washington.edu >> wrote: > I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we did a >> survey, > and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would say we stick > with that given the user community prefers that > > Tianqi > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández < wik...@apache.org> > wrote: > >> Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list creation to > INFRA >> ;-) >> >> Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also subscribed > there, >> since they may be the most informed people for answering users' > questions. >> But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest for pure >> development purposes. Some discussions will jump from users@ to dev@, > but >> at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing list to the > other. >> >> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu >> wrote: >> >>> I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? >>> >>> I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to dev@ to ensure >>> high >>> visibility initially. What do you think? >>> >>> Sebastian schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni 2018, 20:51: >>> I have already
Re: users@mxnet
Facebook is definitely a bad idea: we will be dependent on third party provider + unclear who & how manages such group etc. Forum + Confluence + Slack is much better then. On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 7:17 PM, Ivan Serdyuk wrote: > Greetings Barber, Christopher. I had an idea to move out some discussions, > covering Java and Scala API, to Facebook. So if somewhere exists a local > JUG or Scala user group - they could reflect the topic of discussion. But > background stuff could take place on mailing lists, Slack, forum, whatever. > The reverse mechanism could be used to involve new committers, as well (so > they would appear as presented newcomers, as for contributions). > > Regards > Ivan > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:40 PM, Barber, Christopher < > christopher.bar...@analog.com> wrote: > > > I don't understand why you would want a users mailing list when you > > already have discussion forums. Users that want to be notified of new > posts > > on the forum can configure their notification preferences appropriately. > > The traffic on the forums is already pretty low. I would think you would > > not want to dilute that further. > > > > Christopher > > > > On 6/18/18, 1:27 PM, "Jim Jagielski" wrote: > > > > users@ mailing lists have great societal advantages that one > > shouldn't ignore... > > > > And it's not like this is the only project with "multiple" > > communication choices for users. Most, if not all, projects have users@in > > addition to such supplemental methods as IRC channels, a forum, etc... > It's > > about making it easy to have as many users as possible and as many > > potential ways for users to communicate. It's not confusing; it's > > empowering :) > > > > > On Jun 18, 2018, at 1:19 PM, Tianqi Chen > > > wrote: > > > > > > The problem of having multiple separate channels of communication > is > > that > > > users get confused, and the cost of maintenance goes up(people have > > to > > > watch both). As the current community was at discuss forum and many > > users > > > prefer it, having a mail-list is only a burden we will bring > > > > > > Tianqi > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Jim Jagielski > > wrote: > > > > > >> IMO, that is the wrong way to look at it. > > >> > > >> A users@ mailing list is a great, easy, low-cost and low-overhead > > way of > > >> *increasing* the user community and providing an extra level of > > support. > > >> Unless there is "strong evidence" that this is NOT the case, I > would > > >> recommend we create the list. > > >> > > >>> On Jun 16, 2018, at 12:28 AM, Tianqi Chen < > > tqc...@cs.washington.edu> > > >> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> So unless there is a strong evidence that our community users > > prefers the > > >>> mail-list, I would recommend we keep the current way > > >>> > > >>> Tianqi > > >>> > > >>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández < > > wik...@apache.org> > > >> wrote: > > >>> > > Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope we > > are > > thinking a bit beyond that... > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen < > tqc...@cs.washington.edu > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we > did a > > >> survey, > > > and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would > > say we > > stick > > > with that given the user community prefers that > > > > > > Tianqi > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández < > > wik...@apache.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list > > creation to > > > INFRA > > >> ;-) > > >> > > >> Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also > > subscribed > > > there, > > >> since they may be the most informed people for answering > users' > > > questions. > > >> But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest for > > pure > > >> development purposes. Some discussions will jump from users@ > > to dev@, > > > but > > >> at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing list > to > > the > > > other. > > >> > > >> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >>> I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? > > >>> > > >>> I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to dev@ > > to > > ensure > > >>> high > > >>> visibility initially. What do you think? > > >>> > > >>> Sebastian schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni 2018, > > 20:51: > > >>> > > I have already proposed this many times in the past and > would > > > strongly > >
Re: users@mxnet
Greetings Barber, Christopher. I had an idea to move out some discussions, covering Java and Scala API, to Facebook. So if somewhere exists a local JUG or Scala user group - they could reflect the topic of discussion. But background stuff could take place on mailing lists, Slack, forum, whatever. The reverse mechanism could be used to involve new committers, as well (so they would appear as presented newcomers, as for contributions). Regards Ivan On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 8:40 PM, Barber, Christopher < christopher.bar...@analog.com> wrote: > I don't understand why you would want a users mailing list when you > already have discussion forums. Users that want to be notified of new posts > on the forum can configure their notification preferences appropriately. > The traffic on the forums is already pretty low. I would think you would > not want to dilute that further. > > Christopher > > On 6/18/18, 1:27 PM, "Jim Jagielski" wrote: > > users@ mailing lists have great societal advantages that one > shouldn't ignore... > > And it's not like this is the only project with "multiple" > communication choices for users. Most, if not all, projects have users@in > addition to such supplemental methods as IRC channels, a forum, etc... It's > about making it easy to have as many users as possible and as many > potential ways for users to communicate. It's not confusing; it's > empowering :) > > > On Jun 18, 2018, at 1:19 PM, Tianqi Chen > wrote: > > > > The problem of having multiple separate channels of communication is > that > > users get confused, and the cost of maintenance goes up(people have > to > > watch both). As the current community was at discuss forum and many > users > > prefer it, having a mail-list is only a burden we will bring > > > > Tianqi > > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Jim Jagielski > wrote: > > > >> IMO, that is the wrong way to look at it. > >> > >> A users@ mailing list is a great, easy, low-cost and low-overhead > way of > >> *increasing* the user community and providing an extra level of > support. > >> Unless there is "strong evidence" that this is NOT the case, I would > >> recommend we create the list. > >> > >>> On Jun 16, 2018, at 12:28 AM, Tianqi Chen < > tqc...@cs.washington.edu> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> So unless there is a strong evidence that our community users > prefers the > >>> mail-list, I would recommend we keep the current way > >>> > >>> Tianqi > >>> > >>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández < > wik...@apache.org> > >> wrote: > >>> > Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope we > are > thinking a bit beyond that... > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen > > >> wrote: > > > I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we did a > >> survey, > > and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would > say we > stick > > with that given the user community prefers that > > > > Tianqi > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández < > wik...@apache.org> > > wrote: > > > >> Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list > creation to > > INFRA > >> ;-) > >> > >> Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also > subscribed > > there, > >> since they may be the most informed people for answering users' > > questions. > >> But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest for > pure > >> development purposes. Some discussions will jump from users@ > to dev@, > > but > >> at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing list to > the > > other. > >> > >> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu > >> wrote: > >> > >>> I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? > >>> > >>> I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to dev@ > to > ensure > >>> high > >>> visibility initially. What do you think? > >>> > >>> Sebastian schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni 2018, > 20:51: > >>> > I have already proposed this many times in the past and would > > strongly > encourage it. > > -s > > On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fernández wrote: > > Hi, > > > > is there any good reason why the podling doesn't have a > users@ > >> mailing > list > > yet? > > > > Honestly speaking, I'm not a big fan of the other tools the > podling > >> is > > using. Slack and Web forums a cool tools, and I used them a > lot > in >
Re: users@mxnet
I don't understand why you would want a users mailing list when you already have discussion forums. Users that want to be notified of new posts on the forum can configure their notification preferences appropriately. The traffic on the forums is already pretty low. I would think you would not want to dilute that further. Christopher On 6/18/18, 1:27 PM, "Jim Jagielski" wrote: users@ mailing lists have great societal advantages that one shouldn't ignore... And it's not like this is the only project with "multiple" communication choices for users. Most, if not all, projects have users@in addition to such supplemental methods as IRC channels, a forum, etc... It's about making it easy to have as many users as possible and as many potential ways for users to communicate. It's not confusing; it's empowering :) > On Jun 18, 2018, at 1:19 PM, Tianqi Chen wrote: > > The problem of having multiple separate channels of communication is that > users get confused, and the cost of maintenance goes up(people have to > watch both). As the current community was at discuss forum and many users > prefer it, having a mail-list is only a burden we will bring > > Tianqi > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote: > >> IMO, that is the wrong way to look at it. >> >> A users@ mailing list is a great, easy, low-cost and low-overhead way of >> *increasing* the user community and providing an extra level of support. >> Unless there is "strong evidence" that this is NOT the case, I would >> recommend we create the list. >> >>> On Jun 16, 2018, at 12:28 AM, Tianqi Chen >> wrote: >>> >>> So unless there is a strong evidence that our community users prefers the >>> mail-list, I would recommend we keep the current way >>> >>> Tianqi >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández >> wrote: >>> Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope we are thinking a bit beyond that... On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen >> wrote: > I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we did a >> survey, > and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would say we stick > with that given the user community prefers that > > Tianqi > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández > wrote: > >> Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list creation to > INFRA >> ;-) >> >> Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also subscribed > there, >> since they may be the most informed people for answering users' > questions. >> But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest for pure >> development purposes. Some discussions will jump from users@ to dev@, > but >> at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing list to the > other. >> >> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu >> wrote: >> >>> I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? >>> >>> I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to dev@ to ensure >>> high >>> visibility initially. What do you think? >>> >>> Sebastian schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni 2018, 20:51: >>> I have already proposed this many times in the past and would > strongly encourage it. -s On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fernández wrote: > Hi, > > is there any good reason why the podling doesn't have a users@ >> mailing list > yet? > > Honestly speaking, I'm not a big fan of the other tools the podling >> is > using. Slack and Web forums a cool tools, and I used them a lot in >>> other > contexts. But when it comes to transparency and community, mailing >>> lists > play a crucial role in the Apache Way. > > Users are the most important asset a project can have. Even more > than > developers, believe me. So I think it's time to create a users@ >>> mailing > list for to helping MXNet grow its community beyong the core team. > > Cheers, > >>> >> > >> >>
Re: users@mxnet
IMO, that is the wrong way to look at it. A users@ mailing list is a great, easy, low-cost and low-overhead way of *increasing* the user community and providing an extra level of support. Unless there is "strong evidence" that this is NOT the case, I would recommend we create the list. > On Jun 16, 2018, at 12:28 AM, Tianqi Chen wrote: > > So unless there is a strong evidence that our community users prefers the > mail-list, I would recommend we keep the current way > > Tianqi > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández wrote: > >> Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope we are >> thinking a bit beyond that... >> >> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen wrote: >> >>> I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we did a survey, >>> and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would say we >> stick >>> with that given the user community prefers that >>> >>> Tianqi >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández >>> wrote: >>> Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list creation to >>> INFRA ;-) Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also subscribed >>> there, since they may be the most informed people for answering users' >>> questions. But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest for pure development purposes. Some discussions will jump from users@ to dev@, >>> but at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing list to the >>> other. On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu wrote: > I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? > > I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to dev@ to >> ensure > high > visibility initially. What do you think? > > Sebastian schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni 2018, 20:51: > >> I have already proposed this many times in the past and would >>> strongly >> encourage it. >> >> -s >> >> On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fernández wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> is there any good reason why the podling doesn't have a users@ mailing >> list >>> yet? >>> >>> Honestly speaking, I'm not a big fan of the other tools the >> podling is >>> using. Slack and Web forums a cool tools, and I used them a lot >> in > other >>> contexts. But when it comes to transparency and community, >> mailing > lists >>> play a crucial role in the Apache Way. >>> >>> Users are the most important asset a project can have. Even more >>> than >>> developers, believe me. So I think it's time to create a users@ > mailing >>> list for to helping MXNet grow its community beyong the core >> team. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >> > >>> >>
Re: users@mxnet
I also agree with Indu's points. I feel like the mailing list is more for hackers. Typical MXNet users are machine learning scientists and not necessarily like discussing problems in a hacker's way. Since we already have a discussion forum, why should we create a new one and get users confused where to ask questions? Best, Da On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 5:23 PM, Hagay Lupesko wrote: > Agree with Indu's points: email list usability and features seems inferior > compared to the discussion forum, so I would suggest to keep things simple > and stick with the forum. > > Hagay > > On Sat, Jun 16, 2018, 06:37 Timur Shenkao wrote: > >> user mail list >> >> Pros: >> - Apache user mail list is indexed and kept forever in mailing lists. Very >> convenient. >> - Apache user mail list is indexed by search engines actively and info >> appears in search results pretty soon. >> - You just get e-mails and when you have spare time read & answer them. >> >> Cons: >> - Unless there are active people, user mail list may become "cemetery" of >> unanswered questions >> >> >> On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 9:24 AM, Marco de Abreu < >> marco.g.ab...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote: >> >> > Very good points Indu. I also think that the discussion forum is >> definitely >> > of big value and that we should keep it. But I also don't think it would >> > hurt anybody is we open up a new channel of communication, considering >> that >> > managing an email list doesn't cause any additional overhead. >> > >> > Indhu schrieb am Sa., 16. Juni 2018, 00:37: >> > >> > > I prefer the discuss forum over email for following reasons: >> > > >> > > 1. It is easier for newcomers. People can login using Facebook, Twitter >> > or >> > > GitHub Id >> > > >> > > 2. The format is much more readable for people who search for something >> > in >> > > a search engine and land on the page. >> > > >> > > 3. Markdown support makes it easier to read code in the discussion. >> > > >> > > 4. Like button and marking a reply as answer signals the usefulness of >> an >> > > answer. >> > > >> > > That said, if a reasonable number of people like email lists better, >> I'm >> > > not against it as far as it can co-exist along with the discuss forum. >> > > >> > > Thanks, >> > > Indu >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 11:23 PM Sergio Fernández >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > > Thanks for your opinion, Tianqi. I still would love to listen others' >> > > > opinion on the topic to really assert anything. >> > > > >> > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:41 Tianqi Chen >> > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > Then who should represent the users who are using the forums but >> not >> > > the >> > > > > mail-list? I personally think it is a bit abuse use of the term >> > "Apache >> > > > > way" to force our mind into the entire community... Maybe I am >> > wrong.. >> > > > > >> > > > > Tianqi >> > > > > >> > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:39 PM, Sergio Fernández < >> wik...@apache.org >> > > >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > > Well, I do respect what you discussed in that meetup, if course. >> > But >> > > > for >> > > > > > those who weren't there, maybe the decision taken what a bit >> bias. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > In Apache we like to say that "if it didn't happen on the mailing >> > > list >> > > > s, >> > > > > > it didn't happen" ;-) >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Look like there are different feelings about this. Should I cast >> a >> > > > VOTE? >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:27 Tianqi Chen < >> tqc...@cs.washington.edu> >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I do think we are targeting all the community, but we must also >> > > agree >> > > > > > that >> > > > > > > the voice of users from the meetup is a representative sample >> of >> > > > users' >> > > > > > > demand, and it is important that we respect that. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Tianqi >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández < >> > > wik...@apache.org >> > > > > >> > > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope >> > we >> > > > are >> > > > > > > > thinking a bit beyond that... >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen < >> > > tqc...@cs.washington.edu> >> > > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we >> > > did a >> > > > > > > survey, >> > > > > > > > > and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I >> > would >> > > > say >> > > > > we >> > > > > > > > stick >> > > > > > > > > with that given the user community prefers that >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Tianqi >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández < >> > > > > wik...@apache.org >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > wrote: >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list >> > > > creation >> > > > > > to
Re: users@mxnet
Agree with Indu's points: email list usability and features seems inferior compared to the discussion forum, so I would suggest to keep things simple and stick with the forum. Hagay On Sat, Jun 16, 2018, 06:37 Timur Shenkao wrote: > user mail list > > Pros: > - Apache user mail list is indexed and kept forever in mailing lists. Very > convenient. > - Apache user mail list is indexed by search engines actively and info > appears in search results pretty soon. > - You just get e-mails and when you have spare time read & answer them. > > Cons: > - Unless there are active people, user mail list may become "cemetery" of > unanswered questions > > > On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 9:24 AM, Marco de Abreu < > marco.g.ab...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote: > > > Very good points Indu. I also think that the discussion forum is > definitely > > of big value and that we should keep it. But I also don't think it would > > hurt anybody is we open up a new channel of communication, considering > that > > managing an email list doesn't cause any additional overhead. > > > > Indhu schrieb am Sa., 16. Juni 2018, 00:37: > > > > > I prefer the discuss forum over email for following reasons: > > > > > > 1. It is easier for newcomers. People can login using Facebook, Twitter > > or > > > GitHub Id > > > > > > 2. The format is much more readable for people who search for something > > in > > > a search engine and land on the page. > > > > > > 3. Markdown support makes it easier to read code in the discussion. > > > > > > 4. Like button and marking a reply as answer signals the usefulness of > an > > > answer. > > > > > > That said, if a reasonable number of people like email lists better, > I'm > > > not against it as far as it can co-exist along with the discuss forum. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Indu > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 11:23 PM Sergio Fernández > > wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks for your opinion, Tianqi. I still would love to listen others' > > > > opinion on the topic to really assert anything. > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:41 Tianqi Chen > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Then who should represent the users who are using the forums but > not > > > the > > > > > mail-list? I personally think it is a bit abuse use of the term > > "Apache > > > > > way" to force our mind into the entire community... Maybe I am > > wrong.. > > > > > > > > > > Tianqi > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:39 PM, Sergio Fernández < > wik...@apache.org > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Well, I do respect what you discussed in that meetup, if course. > > But > > > > for > > > > > > those who weren't there, maybe the decision taken what a bit > bias. > > > > > > > > > > > > In Apache we like to say that "if it didn't happen on the mailing > > > list > > > > s, > > > > > > it didn't happen" ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Look like there are different feelings about this. Should I cast > a > > > > VOTE? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:27 Tianqi Chen < > tqc...@cs.washington.edu> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do think we are targeting all the community, but we must also > > > agree > > > > > > that > > > > > > > the voice of users from the meetup is a representative sample > of > > > > users' > > > > > > > demand, and it is important that we respect that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tianqi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández < > > > wik...@apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope > > we > > > > are > > > > > > > > thinking a bit beyond that... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen < > > > tqc...@cs.washington.edu> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we > > > did a > > > > > > > survey, > > > > > > > > > and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I > > would > > > > say > > > > > we > > > > > > > > stick > > > > > > > > > with that given the user community prefers that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tianqi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández < > > > > > wik...@apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list > > > > creation > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > INFRA > > > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also > > > > > subscribed > > > > > > > > > there, > > > > > > > > > > since they may be the most informed people for answering > > > users' > > > > > > > > > questions. > > > > > > > > > > But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest > > for > > > > > pure > > > > > > > > > > development purposes. Some discussions will jump from > > users@ > > > > to > > > > > > dev@ > > > > > > > ,
Re: users@mxnet
user mail list Pros: - Apache user mail list is indexed and kept forever in mailing lists. Very convenient. - Apache user mail list is indexed by search engines actively and info appears in search results pretty soon. - You just get e-mails and when you have spare time read & answer them. Cons: - Unless there are active people, user mail list may become "cemetery" of unanswered questions On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 9:24 AM, Marco de Abreu < marco.g.ab...@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote: > Very good points Indu. I also think that the discussion forum is definitely > of big value and that we should keep it. But I also don't think it would > hurt anybody is we open up a new channel of communication, considering that > managing an email list doesn't cause any additional overhead. > > Indhu schrieb am Sa., 16. Juni 2018, 00:37: > > > I prefer the discuss forum over email for following reasons: > > > > 1. It is easier for newcomers. People can login using Facebook, Twitter > or > > GitHub Id > > > > 2. The format is much more readable for people who search for something > in > > a search engine and land on the page. > > > > 3. Markdown support makes it easier to read code in the discussion. > > > > 4. Like button and marking a reply as answer signals the usefulness of an > > answer. > > > > That said, if a reasonable number of people like email lists better, I'm > > not against it as far as it can co-exist along with the discuss forum. > > > > Thanks, > > Indu > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 11:23 PM Sergio Fernández > wrote: > > > > > Thanks for your opinion, Tianqi. I still would love to listen others' > > > opinion on the topic to really assert anything. > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:41 Tianqi Chen > > wrote: > > > > > > > Then who should represent the users who are using the forums but not > > the > > > > mail-list? I personally think it is a bit abuse use of the term > "Apache > > > > way" to force our mind into the entire community... Maybe I am > wrong.. > > > > > > > > Tianqi > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:39 PM, Sergio Fernández > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Well, I do respect what you discussed in that meetup, if course. > But > > > for > > > > > those who weren't there, maybe the decision taken what a bit bias. > > > > > > > > > > In Apache we like to say that "if it didn't happen on the mailing > > list > > > s, > > > > > it didn't happen" ;-) > > > > > > > > > > Look like there are different feelings about this. Should I cast a > > > VOTE? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:27 Tianqi Chen > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I do think we are targeting all the community, but we must also > > agree > > > > > that > > > > > > the voice of users from the meetup is a representative sample of > > > users' > > > > > > demand, and it is important that we respect that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Tianqi > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández < > > wik...@apache.org > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope > we > > > are > > > > > > > thinking a bit beyond that... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen < > > tqc...@cs.washington.edu> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we > > did a > > > > > > survey, > > > > > > > > and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I > would > > > say > > > > we > > > > > > > stick > > > > > > > > with that given the user community prefers that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tianqi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández < > > > > wik...@apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list > > > creation > > > > > to > > > > > > > > INFRA > > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also > > > > subscribed > > > > > > > > there, > > > > > > > > > since they may be the most informed people for answering > > users' > > > > > > > > questions. > > > > > > > > > But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest > for > > > > pure > > > > > > > > > development purposes. Some discussions will jump from > users@ > > > to > > > > > dev@ > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > > at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing > list > > to > > > > the > > > > > > > > other. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to > > dev@ > > > > to > > > > > > > ensure > > > > > > > > > > high > > > > > > > > > > visibility initially. What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: users@mxnet
Very good points Indu. I also think that the discussion forum is definitely of big value and that we should keep it. But I also don't think it would hurt anybody is we open up a new channel of communication, considering that managing an email list doesn't cause any additional overhead. Indhu schrieb am Sa., 16. Juni 2018, 00:37: > I prefer the discuss forum over email for following reasons: > > 1. It is easier for newcomers. People can login using Facebook, Twitter or > GitHub Id > > 2. The format is much more readable for people who search for something in > a search engine and land on the page. > > 3. Markdown support makes it easier to read code in the discussion. > > 4. Like button and marking a reply as answer signals the usefulness of an > answer. > > That said, if a reasonable number of people like email lists better, I'm > not against it as far as it can co-exist along with the discuss forum. > > Thanks, > Indu > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 11:23 PM Sergio Fernández wrote: > > > Thanks for your opinion, Tianqi. I still would love to listen others' > > opinion on the topic to really assert anything. > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:41 Tianqi Chen > wrote: > > > > > Then who should represent the users who are using the forums but not > the > > > mail-list? I personally think it is a bit abuse use of the term "Apache > > > way" to force our mind into the entire community... Maybe I am wrong.. > > > > > > Tianqi > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:39 PM, Sergio Fernández > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Well, I do respect what you discussed in that meetup, if course. But > > for > > > > those who weren't there, maybe the decision taken what a bit bias. > > > > > > > > In Apache we like to say that "if it didn't happen on the mailing > list > > s, > > > > it didn't happen" ;-) > > > > > > > > Look like there are different feelings about this. Should I cast a > > VOTE? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:27 Tianqi Chen > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I do think we are targeting all the community, but we must also > agree > > > > that > > > > > the voice of users from the meetup is a representative sample of > > users' > > > > > demand, and it is important that we respect that. > > > > > > > > > > Tianqi > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández < > wik...@apache.org > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope we > > are > > > > > > thinking a bit beyond that... > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen < > tqc...@cs.washington.edu> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we > did a > > > > > survey, > > > > > > > and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would > > say > > > we > > > > > > stick > > > > > > > with that given the user community prefers that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tianqi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández < > > > wik...@apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list > > creation > > > > to > > > > > > > INFRA > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also > > > subscribed > > > > > > > there, > > > > > > > > since they may be the most informed people for answering > users' > > > > > > > questions. > > > > > > > > But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest for > > > pure > > > > > > > > development purposes. Some discussions will jump from users@ > > to > > > > dev@ > > > > > , > > > > > > > but > > > > > > > > at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing list > to > > > the > > > > > > > other. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to > dev@ > > > to > > > > > > ensure > > > > > > > > > high > > > > > > > > > visibility initially. What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sebastian schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni 2018, > > > 20:51: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have already proposed this many times in the past and > > would > > > > > > > strongly > > > > > > > > > > encourage it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -s > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fernández wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is there any good reason why the podling doesn't have a > > > > users@ > > > > > > > > mailing > > > > > > > > > > list > > > > > > > > > > > yet? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly speaking, I'm not a big fan of the other tools > > the > > > > > > podling > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > using. Slack and Web forums a cool tools,
Re: users@mxnet
I prefer the discuss forum over email for following reasons: 1. It is easier for newcomers. People can login using Facebook, Twitter or GitHub Id 2. The format is much more readable for people who search for something in a search engine and land on the page. 3. Markdown support makes it easier to read code in the discussion. 4. Like button and marking a reply as answer signals the usefulness of an answer. That said, if a reasonable number of people like email lists better, I'm not against it as far as it can co-exist along with the discuss forum. Thanks, Indu On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 11:23 PM Sergio Fernández wrote: > Thanks for your opinion, Tianqi. I still would love to listen others' > opinion on the topic to really assert anything. > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:41 Tianqi Chen wrote: > > > Then who should represent the users who are using the forums but not the > > mail-list? I personally think it is a bit abuse use of the term "Apache > > way" to force our mind into the entire community... Maybe I am wrong.. > > > > Tianqi > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:39 PM, Sergio Fernández > > wrote: > > > > > Well, I do respect what you discussed in that meetup, if course. But > for > > > those who weren't there, maybe the decision taken what a bit bias. > > > > > > In Apache we like to say that "if it didn't happen on the mailing list > s, > > > it didn't happen" ;-) > > > > > > Look like there are different feelings about this. Should I cast a > VOTE? > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:27 Tianqi Chen > > wrote: > > > > > > > I do think we are targeting all the community, but we must also agree > > > that > > > > the voice of users from the meetup is a representative sample of > users' > > > > demand, and it is important that we respect that. > > > > > > > > Tianqi > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope we > are > > > > > thinking a bit beyond that... > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we did a > > > > survey, > > > > > > and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would > say > > we > > > > > stick > > > > > > with that given the user community prefers that > > > > > > > > > > > > Tianqi > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández < > > wik...@apache.org > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list > creation > > > to > > > > > > INFRA > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also > > subscribed > > > > > > there, > > > > > > > since they may be the most informed people for answering users' > > > > > > questions. > > > > > > > But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest for > > pure > > > > > > > development purposes. Some discussions will jump from users@ > to > > > dev@ > > > > , > > > > > > but > > > > > > > at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing list to > > the > > > > > > other. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to dev@ > > to > > > > > ensure > > > > > > > > high > > > > > > > > visibility initially. What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sebastian schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni 2018, > > 20:51: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have already proposed this many times in the past and > would > > > > > > strongly > > > > > > > > > encourage it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -s > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fernández wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is there any good reason why the podling doesn't have a > > > users@ > > > > > > > mailing > > > > > > > > > list > > > > > > > > > > yet? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly speaking, I'm not a big fan of the other tools > the > > > > > podling > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > using. Slack and Web forums a cool tools, and I used > them a > > > lot > > > > > in > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > contexts. But when it comes to transparency and > community, > > > > > mailing > > > > > > > > lists > > > > > > > > > > play a crucial role in the Apache Way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Users are the most important asset a project can have. > Even > > > > more > > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > > developers, believe me. So I think it's time to create a > > > users@ > > > > > > > > mailing > > > > > > > > > > list for to helping MXNet grow its community beyong the > > core > > > > > team. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: users@mxnet
Thanks for your opinion, Tianqi. I still would love to listen others' opinion on the topic to really assert anything. On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:41 Tianqi Chen wrote: > Then who should represent the users who are using the forums but not the > mail-list? I personally think it is a bit abuse use of the term "Apache > way" to force our mind into the entire community... Maybe I am wrong.. > > Tianqi > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:39 PM, Sergio Fernández > wrote: > > > Well, I do respect what you discussed in that meetup, if course. But for > > those who weren't there, maybe the decision taken what a bit bias. > > > > In Apache we like to say that "if it didn't happen on the mailing list s, > > it didn't happen" ;-) > > > > Look like there are different feelings about this. Should I cast a VOTE? > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:27 Tianqi Chen > wrote: > > > > > I do think we are targeting all the community, but we must also agree > > that > > > the voice of users from the meetup is a representative sample of users' > > > demand, and it is important that we respect that. > > > > > > Tianqi > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope we are > > > > thinking a bit beyond that... > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we did a > > > survey, > > > > > and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would say > we > > > > stick > > > > > with that given the user community prefers that > > > > > > > > > > Tianqi > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández < > wik...@apache.org > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list creation > > to > > > > > INFRA > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also > subscribed > > > > > there, > > > > > > since they may be the most informed people for answering users' > > > > > questions. > > > > > > But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest for > pure > > > > > > development purposes. Some discussions will jump from users@ to > > dev@ > > > , > > > > > but > > > > > > at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing list to > the > > > > > other. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to dev@ > to > > > > ensure > > > > > > > high > > > > > > > visibility initially. What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sebastian schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni 2018, > 20:51: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have already proposed this many times in the past and would > > > > > strongly > > > > > > > > encourage it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -s > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fernández wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is there any good reason why the podling doesn't have a > > users@ > > > > > > mailing > > > > > > > > list > > > > > > > > > yet? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly speaking, I'm not a big fan of the other tools the > > > > podling > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > using. Slack and Web forums a cool tools, and I used them a > > lot > > > > in > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > contexts. But when it comes to transparency and community, > > > > mailing > > > > > > > lists > > > > > > > > > play a crucial role in the Apache Way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Users are the most important asset a project can have. Even > > > more > > > > > than > > > > > > > > > developers, believe me. So I think it's time to create a > > users@ > > > > > > > mailing > > > > > > > > > list for to helping MXNet grow its community beyong the > core > > > > team. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: users@mxnet
I don't want to argue here, as "Apache way" also says VOTE should not be a way to enforce our opinion, and consensus need to be reached through discussion Thanks! Tianqi On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:41 PM, Tianqi Chen wrote: > Then who should represent the users who are using the forums but not the > mail-list? I personally think it is a bit abuse use of the term "Apache > way" to force our mind into the entire community... Maybe I am wrong.. > > Tianqi > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:39 PM, Sergio Fernández > wrote: > >> Well, I do respect what you discussed in that meetup, if course. But for >> those who weren't there, maybe the decision taken what a bit bias. >> >> In Apache we like to say that "if it didn't happen on the mailing list s, >> it didn't happen" ;-) >> >> Look like there are different feelings about this. Should I cast a VOTE? >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:27 Tianqi Chen wrote: >> >> > I do think we are targeting all the community, but we must also agree >> that >> > the voice of users from the meetup is a representative sample of users' >> > demand, and it is important that we respect that. >> > >> > Tianqi >> > >> > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope we are >> > > thinking a bit beyond that... >> > > >> > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > > I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we did a >> > survey, >> > > > and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would say >> we >> > > stick >> > > > with that given the user community prefers that >> > > > >> > > > Tianqi >> > > > >> > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández < >> wik...@apache.org> >> > > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list creation >> to >> > > > INFRA >> > > > > ;-) >> > > > > >> > > > > Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also >> subscribed >> > > > there, >> > > > > since they may be the most informed people for answering users' >> > > > questions. >> > > > > But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest for pure >> > > > > development purposes. Some discussions will jump from users@ to >> dev@ >> > , >> > > > but >> > > > > at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing list to >> the >> > > > other. >> > > > > >> > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu >> > > > > wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > > I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? >> > > > > > >> > > > > > I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to dev@ to >> > > ensure >> > > > > > high >> > > > > > visibility initially. What do you think? >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Sebastian schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni 2018, >> 20:51: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > I have already proposed this many times in the past and would >> > > > strongly >> > > > > > > encourage it. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > -s >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fernández wrote: >> > > > > > > > Hi, >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > is there any good reason why the podling doesn't have a >> users@ >> > > > > mailing >> > > > > > > list >> > > > > > > > yet? >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Honestly speaking, I'm not a big fan of the other tools the >> > > podling >> > > > > is >> > > > > > > > using. Slack and Web forums a cool tools, and I used them a >> lot >> > > in >> > > > > > other >> > > > > > > > contexts. But when it comes to transparency and community, >> > > mailing >> > > > > > lists >> > > > > > > > play a crucial role in the Apache Way. >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Users are the most important asset a project can have. Even >> > more >> > > > than >> > > > > > > > developers, believe me. So I think it's time to create a >> users@ >> > > > > > mailing >> > > > > > > > list for to helping MXNet grow its community beyong the core >> > > team. >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Cheers, >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >
Re: users@mxnet
Then who should represent the users who are using the forums but not the mail-list? I personally think it is a bit abuse use of the term "Apache way" to force our mind into the entire community... Maybe I am wrong.. Tianqi On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:39 PM, Sergio Fernández wrote: > Well, I do respect what you discussed in that meetup, if course. But for > those who weren't there, maybe the decision taken what a bit bias. > > In Apache we like to say that "if it didn't happen on the mailing list s, > it didn't happen" ;-) > > Look like there are different feelings about this. Should I cast a VOTE? > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:27 Tianqi Chen wrote: > > > I do think we are targeting all the community, but we must also agree > that > > the voice of users from the meetup is a representative sample of users' > > demand, and it is important that we respect that. > > > > Tianqi > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández > > wrote: > > > > > Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope we are > > > thinking a bit beyond that... > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen > > wrote: > > > > > > > I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we did a > > survey, > > > > and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would say we > > > stick > > > > with that given the user community prefers that > > > > > > > > Tianqi > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list creation > to > > > > INFRA > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also subscribed > > > > there, > > > > > since they may be the most informed people for answering users' > > > > questions. > > > > > But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest for pure > > > > > development purposes. Some discussions will jump from users@ to > dev@ > > , > > > > but > > > > > at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing list to the > > > > other. > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to dev@ to > > > ensure > > > > > > high > > > > > > visibility initially. What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > Sebastian schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni 2018, 20:51: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have already proposed this many times in the past and would > > > > strongly > > > > > > > encourage it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -s > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fernández wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is there any good reason why the podling doesn't have a > users@ > > > > > mailing > > > > > > > list > > > > > > > > yet? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly speaking, I'm not a big fan of the other tools the > > > podling > > > > > is > > > > > > > > using. Slack and Web forums a cool tools, and I used them a > lot > > > in > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > contexts. But when it comes to transparency and community, > > > mailing > > > > > > lists > > > > > > > > play a crucial role in the Apache Way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Users are the most important asset a project can have. Even > > more > > > > than > > > > > > > > developers, believe me. So I think it's time to create a > users@ > > > > > > mailing > > > > > > > > list for to helping MXNet grow its community beyong the core > > > team. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: users@mxnet
Well, I do respect what you discussed in that meetup, if course. But for those who weren't there, maybe the decision taken what a bit bias. In Apache we like to say that "if it didn't happen on the mailing list s, it didn't happen" ;-) Look like there are different feelings about this. Should I cast a VOTE? On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:27 Tianqi Chen wrote: > I do think we are targeting all the community, but we must also agree that > the voice of users from the meetup is a representative sample of users' > demand, and it is important that we respect that. > > Tianqi > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández > wrote: > > > Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope we are > > thinking a bit beyond that... > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen > wrote: > > > > > I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we did a > survey, > > > and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would say we > > stick > > > with that given the user community prefers that > > > > > > Tianqi > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list creation to > > > INFRA > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also subscribed > > > there, > > > > since they may be the most informed people for answering users' > > > questions. > > > > But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest for pure > > > > development purposes. Some discussions will jump from users@ to dev@ > , > > > but > > > > at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing list to the > > > other. > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? > > > > > > > > > > I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to dev@ to > > ensure > > > > > high > > > > > visibility initially. What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > Sebastian schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni 2018, 20:51: > > > > > > > > > > > I have already proposed this many times in the past and would > > > strongly > > > > > > encourage it. > > > > > > > > > > > > -s > > > > > > > > > > > > On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fernández wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is there any good reason why the podling doesn't have a users@ > > > > mailing > > > > > > list > > > > > > > yet? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly speaking, I'm not a big fan of the other tools the > > podling > > > > is > > > > > > > using. Slack and Web forums a cool tools, and I used them a lot > > in > > > > > other > > > > > > > contexts. But when it comes to transparency and community, > > mailing > > > > > lists > > > > > > > play a crucial role in the Apache Way. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Users are the most important asset a project can have. Even > more > > > than > > > > > > > developers, believe me. So I think it's time to create a users@ > > > > > mailing > > > > > > > list for to helping MXNet grow its community beyong the core > > team. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: users@mxnet
So unless there is a strong evidence that our community users prefers the mail-list, I would recommend we keep the current way Tianqi On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández wrote: > Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope we are > thinking a bit beyond that... > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen wrote: > > > I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we did a survey, > > and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would say we > stick > > with that given the user community prefers that > > > > Tianqi > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández > > wrote: > > > > > Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list creation to > > INFRA > > > ;-) > > > > > > Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also subscribed > > there, > > > since they may be the most informed people for answering users' > > questions. > > > But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest for pure > > > development purposes. Some discussions will jump from users@ to dev@, > > but > > > at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing list to the > > other. > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? > > > > > > > > I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to dev@ to > ensure > > > > high > > > > visibility initially. What do you think? > > > > > > > > Sebastian schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni 2018, 20:51: > > > > > > > > > I have already proposed this many times in the past and would > > strongly > > > > > encourage it. > > > > > > > > > > -s > > > > > > > > > > On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fernández wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > is there any good reason why the podling doesn't have a users@ > > > mailing > > > > > list > > > > > > yet? > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly speaking, I'm not a big fan of the other tools the > podling > > > is > > > > > > using. Slack and Web forums a cool tools, and I used them a lot > in > > > > other > > > > > > contexts. But when it comes to transparency and community, > mailing > > > > lists > > > > > > play a crucial role in the Apache Way. > > > > > > > > > > > > Users are the most important asset a project can have. Even more > > than > > > > > > developers, believe me. So I think it's time to create a users@ > > > > mailing > > > > > > list for to helping MXNet grow its community beyong the core > team. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: users@mxnet
I do think we are targeting all the community, but we must also agree that the voice of users from the meetup is a representative sample of users' demand, and it is important that we respect that. Tianqi On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández wrote: > Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope we are > thinking a bit beyond that... > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen wrote: > > > I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we did a survey, > > and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would say we > stick > > with that given the user community prefers that > > > > Tianqi > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández > > wrote: > > > > > Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list creation to > > INFRA > > > ;-) > > > > > > Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also subscribed > > there, > > > since they may be the most informed people for answering users' > > questions. > > > But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest for pure > > > development purposes. Some discussions will jump from users@ to dev@, > > but > > > at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing list to the > > other. > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? > > > > > > > > I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to dev@ to > ensure > > > > high > > > > visibility initially. What do you think? > > > > > > > > Sebastian schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni 2018, 20:51: > > > > > > > > > I have already proposed this many times in the past and would > > strongly > > > > > encourage it. > > > > > > > > > > -s > > > > > > > > > > On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fernández wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > is there any good reason why the podling doesn't have a users@ > > > mailing > > > > > list > > > > > > yet? > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly speaking, I'm not a big fan of the other tools the > podling > > > is > > > > > > using. Slack and Web forums a cool tools, and I used them a lot > in > > > > other > > > > > > contexts. But when it comes to transparency and community, > mailing > > > > lists > > > > > > play a crucial role in the Apache Way. > > > > > > > > > > > > Users are the most important asset a project can have. Even more > > than > > > > > > developers, believe me. So I think it's time to create a users@ > > > > mailing > > > > > > list for to helping MXNet grow its community beyong the core > team. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: users@mxnet
Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope we are thinking a bit beyond that... On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen wrote: > I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we did a survey, > and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would say we stick > with that given the user community prefers that > > Tianqi > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández > wrote: > > > Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list creation to > INFRA > > ;-) > > > > Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also subscribed > there, > > since they may be the most informed people for answering users' > questions. > > But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest for pure > > development purposes. Some discussions will jump from users@ to dev@, > but > > at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing list to the > other. > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu > > wrote: > > > > > I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? > > > > > > I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to dev@ to ensure > > > high > > > visibility initially. What do you think? > > > > > > Sebastian schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni 2018, 20:51: > > > > > > > I have already proposed this many times in the past and would > strongly > > > > encourage it. > > > > > > > > -s > > > > > > > > On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fernández wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > is there any good reason why the podling doesn't have a users@ > > mailing > > > > list > > > > > yet? > > > > > > > > > > Honestly speaking, I'm not a big fan of the other tools the podling > > is > > > > > using. Slack and Web forums a cool tools, and I used them a lot in > > > other > > > > > contexts. But when it comes to transparency and community, mailing > > > lists > > > > > play a crucial role in the Apache Way. > > > > > > > > > > Users are the most important asset a project can have. Even more > than > > > > > developers, believe me. So I think it's time to create a users@ > > > mailing > > > > > list for to helping MXNet grow its community beyong the core team. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: users@mxnet
I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we did a survey, and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would say we stick with that given the user community prefers that Tianqi On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández wrote: > Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list creation to INFRA > ;-) > > Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also subscribed there, > since they may be the most informed people for answering users' questions. > But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest for pure > development purposes. Some discussions will jump from users@ to dev@, but > at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing list to the other. > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu > wrote: > > > I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? > > > > I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to dev@ to ensure > > high > > visibility initially. What do you think? > > > > Sebastian schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni 2018, 20:51: > > > > > I have already proposed this many times in the past and would strongly > > > encourage it. > > > > > > -s > > > > > > On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fernández wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > is there any good reason why the podling doesn't have a users@ > mailing > > > list > > > > yet? > > > > > > > > Honestly speaking, I'm not a big fan of the other tools the podling > is > > > > using. Slack and Web forums a cool tools, and I used them a lot in > > other > > > > contexts. But when it comes to transparency and community, mailing > > lists > > > > play a crucial role in the Apache Way. > > > > > > > > Users are the most important asset a project can have. Even more than > > > > developers, believe me. So I think it's time to create a users@ > > mailing > > > > list for to helping MXNet grow its community beyong the core team. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > >
Re: users@mxnet
Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list creation to INFRA ;-) Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also subscribed there, since they may be the most informed people for answering users' questions. But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest for pure development purposes. Some discussions will jump from users@ to dev@, but at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing list to the other. On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu wrote: > I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? > > I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to dev@ to ensure > high > visibility initially. What do you think? > > Sebastian schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni 2018, 20:51: > > > I have already proposed this many times in the past and would strongly > > encourage it. > > > > -s > > > > On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fernández wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > is there any good reason why the podling doesn't have a users@ mailing > > list > > > yet? > > > > > > Honestly speaking, I'm not a big fan of the other tools the podling is > > > using. Slack and Web forums a cool tools, and I used them a lot in > other > > > contexts. But when it comes to transparency and community, mailing > lists > > > play a crucial role in the Apache Way. > > > > > > Users are the most important asset a project can have. Even more than > > > developers, believe me. So I think it's time to create a users@ > mailing > > > list for to helping MXNet grow its community beyong the core team. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > >
Re: users@mxnet
I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to dev@ to ensure high visibility initially. What do you think? Sebastian schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni 2018, 20:51: > I have already proposed this many times in the past and would strongly > encourage it. > > -s > > On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fernández wrote: > > Hi, > > > > is there any good reason why the podling doesn't have a users@ mailing > list > > yet? > > > > Honestly speaking, I'm not a big fan of the other tools the podling is > > using. Slack and Web forums a cool tools, and I used them a lot in other > > contexts. But when it comes to transparency and community, mailing lists > > play a crucial role in the Apache Way. > > > > Users are the most important asset a project can have. Even more than > > developers, believe me. So I think it's time to create a users@ mailing > > list for to helping MXNet grow its community beyong the core team. > > > > Cheers, > > >
Re: users@mxnet
I have already proposed this many times in the past and would strongly encourage it. -s On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fernández wrote: Hi, is there any good reason why the podling doesn't have a users@ mailing list yet? Honestly speaking, I'm not a big fan of the other tools the podling is using. Slack and Web forums a cool tools, and I used them a lot in other contexts. But when it comes to transparency and community, mailing lists play a crucial role in the Apache Way. Users are the most important asset a project can have. Even more than developers, believe me. So I think it's time to create a users@ mailing list for to helping MXNet grow its community beyong the core team. Cheers,
users@mxnet
Hi, is there any good reason why the podling doesn't have a users@ mailing list yet? Honestly speaking, I'm not a big fan of the other tools the podling is using. Slack and Web forums a cool tools, and I used them a lot in other contexts. But when it comes to transparency and community, mailing lists play a crucial role in the Apache Way. Users are the most important asset a project can have. Even more than developers, believe me. So I think it's time to create a users@ mailing list for to helping MXNet grow its community beyong the core team. Cheers,
