Re: [native-lang] Regional mentors/leads
On 2008-01-13, at 07:22 , Cor Nouws wrote: Hi all, Louis Suarez-Potts wrote (12-1-2008 21:29) On 2008-01-11, at 14:44 , André Schnabel wrote: You know, sometimes I do presentations about our poject's structures and hw you can join. So I just like to know, where all this would fits in. In the chapter 'growing community' ;-) I think this can be considered an experiment of sorts. I do think we [...] Thanks for all the info and thoughts about this. I always find it astonishing that people with time and energy stand up for tasks as this new one! Just to add one obvious point: the new regional lead(s) must be aware of the more or less experimental status and possibly Louis and Charles may have a fine task in mentoring (which according to my spell checker doesn't seem to be English). Good point. So far, I've only proposed Sankarshan M. of the Bengali project, and as he's subscribed to this list, and totally aware of the thought processes producing this, I'm sure he's onto how experimental this is :-) But yes, others who come aboard will also be informed of it. Absent further commentary by Thursday, I'll assume that as described, Charles and I can move ahead with this role, and will formally propose Sankarshan to fill it. Charles and I can then follow up with announcements, if Charles is willing. Best, Cor thanks louis -- Cor Nouws Arnhem - Netherlands nl.OpenOffice.org - marketing contact - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [native-lang] Regional mentors/leads
Hi all, Louis Suarez-Potts wrote (12-1-2008 21:29) On 2008-01-11, at 14:44 , André Schnabel wrote: You know, sometimes I do presentations about our poject's structures and hw you can join. So I just like to know, where all this would fits in. In the chapter 'growing community' ;-) I think this can be considered an experiment of sorts. I do think we [...] Thanks for all the info and thoughts about this. I always find it astonishing that people with time and energy stand up for tasks as this new one! Just to add one obvious point: the new regional lead(s) must be aware of the more or less experimental status and possibly Louis and Charles may have a fine task in mentoring (which according to my spell checker doesn't seem to be English). Best, Cor -- Cor Nouws Arnhem - Netherlands nl.OpenOffice.org - marketing contact - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [native-lang] Regional mentors/leads
Hi, On 2008-01-11, at 14:44 , André Schnabel wrote: Hi, and thanks for bringing the proposal to a public list. Louis Suarez-Potts schrieb: * I want to be a Regional Community Lead! I want to be a Regional Community Lead! What shall I do? Simple. Write to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list a proposal and we'll take on from there. Oh, I never even thought of that 8-) About what? That more people want to become Regional Community leads or thet they should ask at a public list about that. While I am looking forward to the first, I hope the latter is obvious ;) Well, I was exaggerating. If I get all this right, (and sorry for the very German style to get all things in structures), regional Community leads will have similar tasks like Native Lang Community leads have now. Sort of; this is still in flux and will depend on the situation. Bu they will step in at locations where that language-based Community-Setupdoes not work very well (e.g. Inda, Africa because we have a mix of languages in a given region - or US, Australia, England, because we have only one language in different regions with different cultures)? That depends on the situation, I think. In India, I think a regional community lead makes sense and it could also make sense elsewhere-- Africa, as I suggested. But let's see if it really works. I see a crucial requirement being able to represent the technical elements of OOo to the regional foss community, for instance, meaning that the role would be fairly demanding. But the goal is really to help form developer / high-level communities. Looking at the structures those regional leads need to have close contact with the native lang projects (of their region as well as global), correct? Yes. And I'd imagine that there will be huge overlap, as Charles hinted. You know, sometimes I do presentations about our poject's structures and hw you can join. So I just like to know, where all thiswould fits in. I think this can be considered an experiment of sorts. I do think we need regional mentors worldwide who can help new and relatively inexperienced developers learn how to work with OOo, and that this is one way of achieving that. But for this idea to work in fact we also need for the developer projects to take the regional lead seriously; a role without legitimacy is a joke, after all. So, I am not sure precisely how this fits in--in part b/c it's novel and in part because I also tend instinctively to anti-bureaucracy and codified roles, despite the evidence to the contrary. But in places like India, Africa (though Sophie thinks the situation there won't be changed by having a regional community lead), to name two, having someone who can help form developer communities (and also other contributor groups) seems important. And it doesn't seem to me that we've succeeded without such persons, though the Indic teams' work has been good and Dwayne's has been remarkable. André Best Louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [native-lang] Regional mentors/leads
Hi all, On 2008-01-12, at 08:04 , Florian Effenberger wrote: Hi Louis, all, This is not exactly a new proposal--we have discussed it on-list and off and on for years--but I'd like to raise it formally here for discussion. The proposal is to establish a more or less formal role, Regional Community Lead. One could also call it, as I used to, Regional Mentor, but the term, Regional Community Lead is probably more descriptively accurate. I would also like to propose that we start with this role in India. thanks for bringing it to the list! I think that in general such an idea is good. I understand it the same way as André does: For countries with a lot of languages, or large countries with one language but different cultures, where the existing NLC structure doesn't fit in very well, regional leads could add a lot of benefit for us. For countries, regions and languages, where the current NLC structure works, we can keep it as is. Yes, and again, as they say in English, we can play this (music) by ear. Florian ciao louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[native-lang] Regional mentors/leads
Hi all, This is not exactly a new proposal--we have discussed it on-list and off and on for years--but I'd like to raise it formally here for discussion. The proposal is to establish a more or less formal role, Regional Community Lead. One could also call it, as I used to, Regional Mentor, but the term, Regional Community Lead is probably more descriptively accurate. I would also like to propose that we start with this role in India. * Reasons for the role In some regions, the community needs people local to that region who can ably represent OpenOffice.org to regional Foss groups, universities, government, wherever. The NLC leads do this now and do it well. But they are tied to particular languages--that's the point-- and are not regional, though obviously, in practice, for many languages they are. But in places such as India, where there are something like 21 official languages, I and others believe that we need someone who can effectively unify the disparate groups and represent OOo. That person would also work as a regional mentor and help new community members learn OOo; and would also necessarily have a tight connection with the developer and contributor members. Of course, any other community member could establish such connections, and in fact that's the goal-- to get more developers, world-wide. But in places such as India (or Africa or North America, and elsewhere), a regional lead who can help unify the local community seems required. And I think it's important to act now. The case of India is the prompt. When we went to Foss.In last December, and used it as our Indian Regional Conference, we were delighted to see that the Foss community in India was eager, friendly, vibrant, but dismayed to discover that there was no coherent OpenOffice.org community. It was atomized; work was being done by the government sponsored CDAC, and by Red Hat, and by a couple of independents, but there was no real community that could reliably share things. What's more, I learned that much of the source that was being worked on by the disparate communities was not coming from OOo repository; and there were many minor forks. There was in short a bit of a mess. The solution, it was impressed upon me, was to have a more visible presence in India. I don't mean Sun; I mean OOo. OOo may be used by millions there, but few work on it, and they don't work on it because for many, the obstacles of working on it are too steep and because there was no real community there. India depends on CDROMs and personal contact, and appreciates the visible efforts of the community. (I'm also trying to form a Sun team in India that can help nucleate the effort; but that is different from this proposal.) That visible presence is substantially achieved by establishing a Regional Community Lead: someone who can knit the various groups together and someone who can help coordinate overall communication among the international and regional groups. So, my apologies for the long post. But I do have a few more points: * Does this add bureaucracy? I hope not. Rather I hope it does the opposite. * How formal is this role? It is formal enough to grant the holder the ability to use it tactically. * Does this mean that regional community members must go through him or her to reach OpenOffice.org? No. Rather, it means if anything that the regional community lead will *help* those who want that help and strive to establish active participant communities. Thanks Louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [native-lang] Regional mentors/leads
Hi On 2008-01-11, at 11:54 , Charles-H. Schulz wrote: * I want to be a Regional Community Lead! I want to be a Regional Community Lead! What shall I do? Simple. Write to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list a proposal and we'll take on from there. Oh, I never even thought of that 8-) But i'd modify it by suggesting that for now, I'd like to have just one, the one for India, and see where we go from there. Hope this helps, Charles. Thanks, Louis - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [native-lang] Regional mentors/leads
Louis, all, Apologies for an even longer post... Louis Suarez-Potts a écrit : Hi all, This is not exactly a new proposal--we have discussed it on-list and off and on for years--but I'd like to raise it formally here for discussion. The proposal is to establish a more or less formal role, Regional Community Lead. One could also call it, as I used to, Regional Mentor, but the term, Regional Community Lead is probably more descriptively accurate. I would also like to propose that we start with this role in India. * Reasons for the role In some regions, the community needs people local to that region who can ably represent OpenOffice.org to regional Foss groups, universities, government, wherever. The NLC leads do this now and do it well. But they are tied to particular languages--that's the point--and are not regional, though obviously, in practice, for many languages they are. But in places such as India, where there are something like 21 official languages, I and others believe that we need someone who can effectively unify the disparate groups and represent OOo. That person would also work as a regional mentor and help new community members learn OOo; and would also necessarily have a tight connection with the developer and contributor members. Of course, any other community member could establish such connections, and in fact that's the goal--to get more developers, world-wide. But in places such as India (or Africa or North America, and elsewhere), a regional lead who can help unify the local community seems required. And I think it's important to act now. The case of India is the prompt. When we went to Foss.In last December, and used it as our Indian Regional Conference, we were delighted to see that the Foss community in India was eager, friendly, vibrant, but dismayed to discover that there was no coherent OpenOffice.org community. It was atomized; work was being done by the government sponsored CDAC, and by Red Hat, and by a couple of independents, but there was no real community that could reliably share things. What's more, I learned that much of the source that was being worked on by the disparate communities was not coming from OOo repository; and there were many minor forks. There was in short a bit of a mess. The solution, it was impressed upon me, was to have a more visible presence in India. I don't mean Sun; I mean OOo. OOo may be used by millions there, but few work on it, and they don't work on it because for many, the obstacles of working on it are too steep and because there was no real community there. India depends on CDROMs and personal contact, and appreciates the visible efforts of the community. (I'm also trying to form a Sun team in India that can help nucleate the effort; but that is different from this proposal.) That visible presence is substantially achieved by establishing a Regional Community Lead: someone who can knit the various groups together and someone who can help coordinate overall communication among the international and regional groups. So, my apologies for the long post. But I do have a few more points: * Does this add bureaucracy? I hope not. Rather I hope it does the opposite. * How formal is this role? It is formal enough to grant the holder the ability to use it tactically. * Does this mean that regional community members must go through him or her to reach OpenOffice.org? No. Rather, it means if anything that the regional community lead will *help* those who want that help and strive to establish active participant communities. Thank you, Louis. I would also add some other elements: *What do we do with existing NLC Regional Groups? Nothing, or rather, the Regional Community Lead is in a way the continuum of what the Regional Group Coordinator was, but with a more formal entitlement. * Are Regional Community Leads supervising Native-Language Project Leads? Not at all, these are two very different roles. One may see this new role as a regional coordination role. *Do we have to have a Regional Community Lead? No, we are not imperialists... :-) *I want to get things done with the native-lang project(s) that happen to work in a region/country/city near me, but I'm not part of that team or I work with a different native-language project as our language is different. How do I do that? Perhaps you could think of having a Regional Group and a regional community lead... * I want to be a Regional Community Lead! I want to be a Regional Community Lead! What shall I do? Simple. Write to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list a proposal and we'll take on from there. Hope this helps, Charles. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [native-lang] Regional mentors/leads
Hi, and thanks for bringing the proposal to a public list. Louis Suarez-Potts schrieb: * I want to be a Regional Community Lead! I want to be a Regional Community Lead! What shall I do? Simple. Write to the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list a proposal and we'll take on from there. Oh, I never even thought of that 8-) About what? That more people want to become Regional Community leads or thet they should ask at a public list about that. While I am looking forward to the first, I hope the latter is obvious ;) If I get all this right, (and sorry for the very German style to get all things in structures), regional Community leads will have similar tasks like Native Lang Community leads have now. Bu they will step in at locations where that language-based Community-Setupdoes not work very well (e.g. Inda, Africa because we have a mix of languages in a given region - or US, Australia, England, because we have only one language in different regions with different cultures)? Looking at the structures those regional leads need to have close contact with the native lang projects (of their region as well as global), correct? You know, sometimes I do presentations about our poject's structures and hw you can join. So I just like to know, where all thiswould fits in. André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
