Re: Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK (was: Re: Noticed Oracle is Working to Remove Java FX, AWT, and Swing from Base Java/JDK)

[Emilian Bold]

>> "Oracle has begun conversations with interested parties in the Java
>> ecosystem on the stewardship of JavaFX, Swing and AWT beyond the above
>> referenced timeframes."

> Does anyone know Who? How? Terms? Or, how can we get involved?

Yes, I sure hope Apache is involved.

--emi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 10 March 2018 7:50 AM, Wade Chandler  wrote:

> On Mar 9, 2018 18:16, "Neil C Smith" neilcsm...@apache.org wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 at 22:31 Matthias Bläsingmblaes...@doppel-helix.eu
> 
> wrote:
> 
> > Oracle is still committed to Swing and AWT to at least 2026. There is
> > 
> > no mention of removing it.
> > 
> > So we should keep calm.
> 
> Calm is good :-)
> 
> Still, that particular date is just talking about the end of commercial
> 
> support for Java SE 11 isn't it? Unless I missed something, there isn't
> 
> anything about what happens in Java SE 12, which is only ~12 months away.
> 
> Exactly, and my original email didn't suggest freaking out. It did suggest
> 
> we need to be aware of what this means, and decide how to make sure we can
> 
> support "the" core dependency besides Java at this point. Does it mean
> 
> other tech, or does it mean getting more involved?
> 
> At a minimum the messaging for FX is that it didn't take off, and it has a
> 
> niche following, and mobile first and web technology has offset its
> 
> original goals.
> 
> Given that, other than some developer tools and "niche" applications, who
> 
> is using Swing? It's a rhetorical question.
> 
> Many today, I suppose most, think apps should be mobile or web, and unless
> 
> in the various markets, that have value for applications which aren't web
> 
> applications, but not as consumer visible, would think such things are
> 
> niche, even though that's a pretty big niche, and apparently an oxymoron,
> 
> if one takes the different technologies used to build installed desktop
> 
> apps including Qt, .Net, Electron (Slack or VS Code anyone), Natives,
> 
> Eclipse, others, and of course Swing (NB RCP) and Java FX along with their
> 
> domains/applicable use cases.
> 
> Maybe nothing near term to worry about, but I think without other
> 
> involvement, AWT & Swing are being looked at for something. This is also in
> 
> that document:
> 
> "Oracle has begun conversations with interested parties in the Java
> 
> ecosystem on the stewardship of JavaFX, Swing and AWT beyond the above
> 
> referenced timeframes."
> 
> Does anyone know Who? How? Terms? Or, how can we get involved?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Wade


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Re: Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

[Antonio]

On 11/03/18 17:15, Emilian Bold wrote:

"Oracle has begun conversations with interested parties in the Java
ecosystem on the stewardship of JavaFX, Swing and AWT beyond the above
referenced timeframes."



Does anyone know Who? How? Terms? Or, how can we get involved?


Yes, I sure hope Apache is involved.

--emi


That would be a real game changer!

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Re: Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK (was: Re: Noticed Oracle is Working to Remove Java FX, AWT, and Swing from Base Java/JDK)

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Well, it's clear Gluon is involved, for example.

Gj

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 5:15 PM, Emilian Bold 
wrote:

> >> "Oracle has begun conversations with interested parties in the Java
> >> ecosystem on the stewardship of JavaFX, Swing and AWT beyond the above
> >> referenced timeframes."
>
> > Does anyone know Who? How? Terms? Or, how can we get involved?
>
> Yes, I sure hope Apache is involved.
>
> --emi
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>
> On 10 March 2018 7:50 AM, Wade Chandler  wrote:
>
> > On Mar 9, 2018 18:16, "Neil C Smith" neilcsm...@apache.org wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 at 22:31 Matthias Bläsingmblaes...@doppel-helix.eu
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Oracle is still committed to Swing and AWT to at least 2026. There is
> > >
> > > no mention of removing it.
> > >
> > > So we should keep calm.
> >
> > Calm is good :-)
> >
> > Still, that particular date is just talking about the end of commercial
> >
> > support for Java SE 11 isn't it? Unless I missed something, there isn't
> >
> > anything about what happens in Java SE 12, which is only ~12 months away.
> >
> > Exactly, and my original email didn't suggest freaking out. It did
> suggest
> >
> > we need to be aware of what this means, and decide how to make sure we
> can
> >
> > support "the" core dependency besides Java at this point. Does it mean
> >
> > other tech, or does it mean getting more involved?
> >
> > At a minimum the messaging for FX is that it didn't take off, and it has
> a
> >
> > niche following, and mobile first and web technology has offset its
> >
> > original goals.
> >
> > Given that, other than some developer tools and "niche" applications, who
> >
> > is using Swing? It's a rhetorical question.
> >
> > Many today, I suppose most, think apps should be mobile or web, and
> unless
> >
> > in the various markets, that have value for applications which aren't web
> >
> > applications, but not as consumer visible, would think such things are
> >
> > niche, even though that's a pretty big niche, and apparently an oxymoron,
> >
> > if one takes the different technologies used to build installed desktop
> >
> > apps including Qt, .Net, Electron (Slack or VS Code anyone), Natives,
> >
> > Eclipse, others, and of course Swing (NB RCP) and Java FX along with
> their
> >
> > domains/applicable use cases.
> >
> > Maybe nothing near term to worry about, but I think without other
> >
> > involvement, AWT & Swing are being looked at for something. This is also
> in
> >
> > that document:
> >
> > "Oracle has begun conversations with interested parties in the Java
> >
> > ecosystem on the stewardship of JavaFX, Swing and AWT beyond the above
> >
> > referenced timeframes."
> >
> > Does anyone know Who? How? Terms? Or, how can we get involved?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Wade
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

Re: Problem Reporter

[Emilian Bold]

See https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-164 and 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-241


--emi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 8 March 2018 4:30 PM, Mark Struberg  wrote:

> Hi folks!
> 
> Just a random user question from me this time ;)
> 
> I was using the installing NetBeans on my Linux desktop and tried using the 
> internal search line.And got a problem reported (ClassNotFoundException: 
> javax.help.search.SearchEngine).
> 
> The 'Report Problem' dialogue and stuff still seems to work via the 
> netbeans.org page.I somehow was not able to create an account over there. Is 
> this broken or did I do something wrong?
> 
> LieGrue,strub


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dpi on Windows Java 9

[toni.epple]

Hi,

 

I recently switched to a windows machine. When building NB from sources and 
running it on JDK8 it looks normal, i.e. like 8.2, but when running on JDK9 
icons are pixelated and double the size. 

 

Any idea how to fix this? I’ll show NB JShell integration at a conference on 
Tuesday, and it would be great to have a nice looking NB for that 😊.

 

Thanks 

 

Toni 

Re: Possible Removal of SVN

[Emilian Bold]

Could the OP provide a link where it was decided to drop Subversion? I just 
don't remember this talk. But, I might have missed it.

>From what Jan mentions, only a Java SVN library was dropped but I think we can 
>still have Subversion support by calling the svn native binary?

Obviously, being still in use and another Apache project means it would be nice 
to provide Subversion support. From the looks of it we still do, correct?

PS: As somebody that after many many years of Mercurial and Git had to commit 
to SVN, I found `git svn` entirely usable! So... there's also that option.

--emi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 8 March 2018 6:54 PM, Jan Lahoda  wrote:

> FWIW, IIRC, NetBeans is using different backends to work with SVN
> 
> repositories, and one of the backends is has a license\[1\] that is
> 
> possibly/probably incompatible with an Apache project, so that one was
> 
> excluded:
> 
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/commit/e32f86aeecc1b0bb890ff95ed7e1c31c6da25cb6
> 
> Other (2) backends remain. The backends are AFAIK pluggable, so it should
> 
> be possible to install the excluded backend as a separate module.
> 
> Jan
> 
> \[1\] the licenses are in libs.svnClientAdapter.svnkit/external
> 
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 4:09 PM, Antonio anto...@vieiro.net wrote:
> 
> > Hi there,
> > 
> > As far as I remember the support of svn in NetBeans was due to licensing
> > 
> > issues. This has nothing to do with who uses subversion or not. FreeBSD, as
> > 
> > an example, has been using/is using subversion successfully for years.
> > 
> > Kind regards,
> > 
> > Antonio
> > 
> > On 08/03/18 15:29, Paul Franz wrote:
> > 
> > > There has been a discussion going on in the NetBeans Users list about
> > > 
> > > removing support for SVN. And it was recommended to bring up the topic 
> > > here.
> > > 
> > > Just to give me 2 cents into the thought of removing Subversion support
> > > 
> > > from NetBeans. I am against it just because older FLOSS projects and of
> > > 
> > > course older internal projects for corporations use Subversion. So I think
> > > 
> > > removing support for Subversion from NetBeans would be a bad overall move.
> > > 
> > > Just so that you have a little background on me. I use ClearCase and
> > > 
> > > Subversion for the corporation I work for. For my personal projects 
> > > located
> > > 
> > > on BitBucket I use Mercurial. And for most part in both cases I use the
> > > 
> > > command-line for most of my source code control interaction. So I know 
> > > that
> > > 
> > > I am an outlier, but my fellow developers need to GUIs to interact with
> > > 
> > > source code control.
> > > 
> > > Paul Franz
> > > 
> > > Senior Principal Applications Engineer
> > > 
> > > Oracle Transportation Management
> > > 
> > > Forwarded message:
> > > 
> > > From: Claus Lüthje claus.luet...@thetop.ch
> > > 
> > > > To: Eduard i...@dejongfrz.nl
> > > > 
> > > > Cc: us...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > > 
> > > > Subject: Re: Do you use NetBeans with SVN or CVS?
> > > > 
> > > > Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 15:08:24 +0100
> > > > 
> > > > Many customers I worked with here in Switzerland still use SVN, too.
> > > > 
> > > > I completely understand the urge to leave SVN for eg Git, but reality is
> > > > 
> > > > slower …
> > > > 
> > > > Claus
> > > > 
> > > > Am 08.03.2018 um 15:05 schrieb Eduard i...@dejongfrz.nl:
> > > > 
> > > > > I'm using SVN.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I'd be against removing SVN support from NB, doing would greatly 
> > > > > reduce
> > > > > 
> > > > > the usefulnes of NB for me.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Eduard
> > > > > 
> > > > > David Heffelfinger wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Thanks for bringing this up, I'll discuss with the NetCAT 
> > > > > > organizers.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > David
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 8:41 AM, Brett Ryan  > > > > > 
> > > > > > mailto:brett.r...@gmail.com\> wrote:
> > > 
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > 
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > 
> > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > 
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > 
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > 
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > 
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > 
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists



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AW: Possible Removal of SVN

[Christian Lenz]

As I understand it right, the SVN Support is still available in NetBeans, but 
the Problem was one of the components hase license Problems. 
Von: Emilian Bold
Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. März 2018 19:15
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Possible Removal of SVN

Could the OP provide a link where it was decided to drop Subversion? I just 
don't remember this talk. But, I might have missed it.

>From what Jan mentions, only a Java SVN library was dropped but I think we can 
>still have Subversion support by calling the svn native binary?

Obviously, being still in use and another Apache project means it would be nice 
to provide Subversion support. From the looks of it we still do, correct?

PS: As somebody that after many many years of Mercurial and Git had to commit 
to SVN, I found `git svn` entirely usable! So... there's also that option.

--emi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 8 March 2018 6:54 PM, Jan Lahoda  wrote:

> FWIW, IIRC, NetBeans is using different backends to work with SVN
> 
> repositories, and one of the backends is has a license\[1\] that is
> 
> possibly/probably incompatible with an Apache project, so that one was
> 
> excluded:
> 
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/commit/e32f86aeecc1b0bb890ff95ed7e1c31c6da25cb6
> 
> Other (2) backends remain. The backends are AFAIK pluggable, so it should
> 
> be possible to install the excluded backend as a separate module.
> 
> Jan
> 
> \[1\] the licenses are in libs.svnClientAdapter.svnkit/external
> 
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 4:09 PM, Antonio anto...@vieiro.net wrote:
> 
> > Hi there,
> > 
> > As far as I remember the support of svn in NetBeans was due to licensing
> > 
> > issues. This has nothing to do with who uses subversion or not. FreeBSD, as
> > 
> > an example, has been using/is using subversion successfully for years.
> > 
> > Kind regards,
> > 
> > Antonio
> > 
> > On 08/03/18 15:29, Paul Franz wrote:
> > 
> > > There has been a discussion going on in the NetBeans Users list about
> > > 
> > > removing support for SVN. And it was recommended to bring up the topic 
> > > here.
> > > 
> > > Just to give me 2 cents into the thought of removing Subversion support
> > > 
> > > from NetBeans. I am against it just because older FLOSS projects and of
> > > 
> > > course older internal projects for corporations use Subversion. So I think
> > > 
> > > removing support for Subversion from NetBeans would be a bad overall move.
> > > 
> > > Just so that you have a little background on me. I use ClearCase and
> > > 
> > > Subversion for the corporation I work for. For my personal projects 
> > > located
> > > 
> > > on BitBucket I use Mercurial. And for most part in both cases I use the
> > > 
> > > command-line for most of my source code control interaction. So I know 
> > > that
> > > 
> > > I am an outlier, but my fellow developers need to GUIs to interact with
> > > 
> > > source code control.
> > > 
> > > Paul Franz
> > > 
> > > Senior Principal Applications Engineer
> > > 
> > > Oracle Transportation Management
> > > 
> > > Forwarded message:
> > > 
> > > From: Claus Lüthje claus.luet...@thetop.ch
> > > 
> > > > To: Eduard i...@dejongfrz.nl
> > > > 
> > > > Cc: us...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > > 
> > > > Subject: Re: Do you use NetBeans with SVN or CVS?
> > > > 
> > > > Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 15:08:24 +0100
> > > > 
> > > > Many customers I worked with here in Switzerland still use SVN, too.
> > > > 
> > > > I completely understand the urge to leave SVN for eg Git, but reality is
> > > > 
> > > > slower …
> > > > 
> > > > Claus
> > > > 
> > > > Am 08.03.2018 um 15:05 schrieb Eduard i...@dejongfrz.nl:
> > > > 
> > > > > I'm using SVN.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I'd be against removing SVN support from NB, doing would greatly 
> > > > > reduce
> > > > > 
> > > > > the usefulnes of NB for me.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Eduard
> > > > > 
> > > > > David Heffelfinger wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Thanks for bringing this up, I'll discuss with the NetCAT 
> > > > > > organizers.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > David
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 8:41 AM, Brett Ryan  > > > > > 
> > > > > > mailto:brett.r...@gmail.com\> wrote:
> > > 
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > 
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > 
> > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > 
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > 
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > 
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > 
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > 
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists

Re: Possible Removal of SVN

[Geertjan Wielenga]

I'm not aware of any problem at all with Subversion in NetBeans -- I think
this discussion started with David Heffelfinger trying to gauge the
popularity and relevance of Subversion and CVS in NetBeans, for purposes of
prioritizing them for NetCAT testing. Looks to me like Subversion has
always been treated of equal priority to Git and Mercurial in NetBeans,
while that's less the case for CVS, just a lower priority in terms of how
much time is spent testing it as part of NetCAT.

Also, those who care a lot about Subversion or CVS, or anything else, e.g.,
Git or Mercurial, should sign up to the NetCAT program to give feedback and
input etc.

Gj

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:22 PM, Christian Lenz 
wrote:

> As I understand it right, the SVN Support is still available in NetBeans,
> but the Problem was one of the components hase license Problems.
> Von: Emilian Bold
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. März 2018 19:15
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: Possible Removal of SVN
>
> Could the OP provide a link where it was decided to drop Subversion? I
> just don't remember this talk. But, I might have missed it.
>
> From what Jan mentions, only a Java SVN library was dropped but I think we
> can still have Subversion support by calling the svn native binary?
>
> Obviously, being still in use and another Apache project means it would be
> nice to provide Subversion support. From the looks of it we still do,
> correct?
>
> PS: As somebody that after many many years of Mercurial and Git had to
> commit to SVN, I found `git svn` entirely usable! So... there's also that
> option.
>
> --emi
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>
> On 8 March 2018 6:54 PM, Jan Lahoda  wrote:
>
> > FWIW, IIRC, NetBeans is using different backends to work with SVN
> >
> > repositories, and one of the backends is has a license\[1\] that is
> >
> > possibly/probably incompatible with an Apache project, so that one was
> >
> > excluded:
> >
> > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/commit/
> e32f86aeecc1b0bb890ff95ed7e1c31c6da25cb6
> >
> > Other (2) backends remain. The backends are AFAIK pluggable, so it should
> >
> > be possible to install the excluded backend as a separate module.
> >
> > Jan
> >
> > \[1\] the licenses are in libs.svnClientAdapter.svnkit/external
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 4:09 PM, Antonio anto...@vieiro.net wrote:
> >
> > > Hi there,
> > >
> > > As far as I remember the support of svn in NetBeans was due to
> licensing
> > >
> > > issues. This has nothing to do with who uses subversion or not.
> FreeBSD, as
> > >
> > > an example, has been using/is using subversion successfully for years.
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > >
> > > Antonio
> > >
> > > On 08/03/18 15:29, Paul Franz wrote:
> > >
> > > > There has been a discussion going on in the NetBeans Users list about
> > > >
> > > > removing support for SVN. And it was recommended to bring up the
> topic here.
> > > >
> > > > Just to give me 2 cents into the thought of removing Subversion
> support
> > > >
> > > > from NetBeans. I am against it just because older FLOSS projects and
> of
> > > >
> > > > course older internal projects for corporations use Subversion. So I
> think
> > > >
> > > > removing support for Subversion from NetBeans would be a bad overall
> move.
> > > >
> > > > Just so that you have a little background on me. I use ClearCase and
> > > >
> > > > Subversion for the corporation I work for. For my personal projects
> located
> > > >
> > > > on BitBucket I use Mercurial. And for most part in both cases I use
> the
> > > >
> > > > command-line for most of my source code control interaction. So I
> know that
> > > >
> > > > I am an outlier, but my fellow developers need to GUIs to interact
> with
> > > >
> > > > source code control.
> > > >
> > > > Paul Franz
> > > >
> > > > Senior Principal Applications Engineer
> > > >
> > > > Oracle Transportation Management
> > > >
> > > > Forwarded message:
> > > >
> > > > From: Claus Lüthje claus.luet...@thetop.ch
> > > >
> > > > > To: Eduard i...@dejongfrz.nl
> > > > >
> > > > > Cc: us...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > > Subject: Re: Do you use NetBeans with SVN or CVS?
> > > > >
> > > > > Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 15:08:24 +0100
> > > > >
> > > > > Many customers I worked with here in Switzerland still use SVN,
> too.
> > > > >
> > > > > I completely understand the urge to leave SVN for eg Git, but
> reality is
> > > > >
> > > > > slower …
> > > > >
> > > > > Claus
> > > > >
> > > > > Am 08.03.2018 um 15:05 schrieb Eduard i...@dejongfrz.nl:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I'm using SVN.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'd be against removing SVN support from NB, doing would greatly
> reduce
> > > > > >
> > > > > > the usefulnes of NB for me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 
> 
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Eduard
> > > > > >
> > > > > > David Heffelfinger wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for bri

Re: Possible Removal of SVN

[Stephen Stewart]

As a Netbeans user I use SVN every day. Please do not remove it.
Cheers,
Stephen Stewart

On 11 March 2018 at 19:26, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> I'm not aware of any problem at all with Subversion in NetBeans -- I think
> this discussion started with David Heffelfinger trying to gauge the
> popularity and relevance of Subversion and CVS in NetBeans, for purposes of
> prioritizing them for NetCAT testing. Looks to me like Subversion has
> always been treated of equal priority to Git and Mercurial in NetBeans,
> while that's less the case for CVS, just a lower priority in terms of how
> much time is spent testing it as part of NetCAT.
>
> Also, those who care a lot about Subversion or CVS, or anything else, e.g.,
> Git or Mercurial, should sign up to the NetCAT program to give feedback and
> input etc.
>
> Gj
>
> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:22 PM, Christian Lenz 
> wrote:
>
> > As I understand it right, the SVN Support is still available in NetBeans,
> > but the Problem was one of the components hase license Problems.
> > Von: Emilian Bold
> > Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. März 2018 19:15
> > An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > Betreff: Re: Possible Removal of SVN
> >
> > Could the OP provide a link where it was decided to drop Subversion? I
> > just don't remember this talk. But, I might have missed it.
> >
> > From what Jan mentions, only a Java SVN library was dropped but I think
> we
> > can still have Subversion support by calling the svn native binary?
> >
> > Obviously, being still in use and another Apache project means it would
> be
> > nice to provide Subversion support. From the looks of it we still do,
> > correct?
> >
> > PS: As somebody that after many many years of Mercurial and Git had to
> > commit to SVN, I found `git svn` entirely usable! So... there's also that
> > option.
> >
> > --emi
> >
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> >
> > On 8 March 2018 6:54 PM, Jan Lahoda  wrote:
> >
> > > FWIW, IIRC, NetBeans is using different backends to work with SVN
> > >
> > > repositories, and one of the backends is has a license\[1\] that is
> > >
> > > possibly/probably incompatible with an Apache project, so that one was
> > >
> > > excluded:
> > >
> > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/commit/
> > e32f86aeecc1b0bb890ff95ed7e1c31c6da25cb6
> > >
> > > Other (2) backends remain. The backends are AFAIK pluggable, so it
> should
> > >
> > > be possible to install the excluded backend as a separate module.
> > >
> > > Jan
> > >
> > > \[1\] the licenses are in libs.svnClientAdapter.svnkit/external
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 4:09 PM, Antonio anto...@vieiro.net wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi there,
> > > >
> > > > As far as I remember the support of svn in NetBeans was due to
> > licensing
> > > >
> > > > issues. This has nothing to do with who uses subversion or not.
> > FreeBSD, as
> > > >
> > > > an example, has been using/is using subversion successfully for
> years.
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > >
> > > > Antonio
> > > >
> > > > On 08/03/18 15:29, Paul Franz wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > There has been a discussion going on in the NetBeans Users list
> about
> > > > >
> > > > > removing support for SVN. And it was recommended to bring up the
> > topic here.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just to give me 2 cents into the thought of removing Subversion
> > support
> > > > >
> > > > > from NetBeans. I am against it just because older FLOSS projects
> and
> > of
> > > > >
> > > > > course older internal projects for corporations use Subversion. So
> I
> > think
> > > > >
> > > > > removing support for Subversion from NetBeans would be a bad
> overall
> > move.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just so that you have a little background on me. I use ClearCase
> and
> > > > >
> > > > > Subversion for the corporation I work for. For my personal projects
> > located
> > > > >
> > > > > on BitBucket I use Mercurial. And for most part in both cases I use
> > the
> > > > >
> > > > > command-line for most of my source code control interaction. So I
> > know that
> > > > >
> > > > > I am an outlier, but my fellow developers need to GUIs to interact
> > with
> > > > >
> > > > > source code control.
> > > > >
> > > > > Paul Franz
> > > > >
> > > > > Senior Principal Applications Engineer
> > > > >
> > > > > Oracle Transportation Management
> > > > >
> > > > > Forwarded message:
> > > > >
> > > > > From: Claus Lüthje claus.luet...@thetop.ch
> > > > >
> > > > > > To: Eduard i...@dejongfrz.nl
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cc: us...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Do you use NetBeans with SVN or CVS?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 15:08:24 +0100
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Many customers I worked with here in Switzerland still use SVN,
> > too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I completely understand the urge to leave SVN for eg Git, but
> > reality is
> > > > > >
> > > > > > slower …
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Claus
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Am 08.03.2018 um 15:05 schrieb

Re: Possible Removal of SVN

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Listen, no one anywhere has suggested that Subversion or CVS or anything
else should be removed.

Here is the start of the discussion, from David Heffelfinger on the users@
mailing list:

"This year I'm leading the NetCAT Version Control Tribe. We need volunteers
that are using NetBeans with CVS or SVN to help us test integration with
these two VCS tools. If you are using NetBeans with either one, we could
really use your help. Please sign up at https://cwiki.apache.org/
confluence/display/NETBEANS/NetCAT+9.0+Participants."

Thanks,

Gj


On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:27 PM, Stephen Stewart 
wrote:

> As a Netbeans user I use SVN every day. Please do not remove it.
> Cheers,
> Stephen Stewart
>
> On 11 March 2018 at 19:26, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm not aware of any problem at all with Subversion in NetBeans -- I
> think
> > this discussion started with David Heffelfinger trying to gauge the
> > popularity and relevance of Subversion and CVS in NetBeans, for purposes
> of
> > prioritizing them for NetCAT testing. Looks to me like Subversion has
> > always been treated of equal priority to Git and Mercurial in NetBeans,
> > while that's less the case for CVS, just a lower priority in terms of how
> > much time is spent testing it as part of NetCAT.
> >
> > Also, those who care a lot about Subversion or CVS, or anything else,
> e.g.,
> > Git or Mercurial, should sign up to the NetCAT program to give feedback
> and
> > input etc.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:22 PM, Christian Lenz 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > As I understand it right, the SVN Support is still available in
> NetBeans,
> > > but the Problem was one of the components hase license Problems.
> > > Von: Emilian Bold
> > > Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. März 2018 19:15
> > > An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > Betreff: Re: Possible Removal of SVN
> > >
> > > Could the OP provide a link where it was decided to drop Subversion? I
> > > just don't remember this talk. But, I might have missed it.
> > >
> > > From what Jan mentions, only a Java SVN library was dropped but I think
> > we
> > > can still have Subversion support by calling the svn native binary?
> > >
> > > Obviously, being still in use and another Apache project means it would
> > be
> > > nice to provide Subversion support. From the looks of it we still do,
> > > correct?
> > >
> > > PS: As somebody that after many many years of Mercurial and Git had to
> > > commit to SVN, I found `git svn` entirely usable! So... there's also
> that
> > > option.
> > >
> > > --emi
> > >
> > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > >
> > > On 8 March 2018 6:54 PM, Jan Lahoda  wrote:
> > >
> > > > FWIW, IIRC, NetBeans is using different backends to work with SVN
> > > >
> > > > repositories, and one of the backends is has a license\[1\] that is
> > > >
> > > > possibly/probably incompatible with an Apache project, so that one
> was
> > > >
> > > > excluded:
> > > >
> > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/commit/
> > > e32f86aeecc1b0bb890ff95ed7e1c31c6da25cb6
> > > >
> > > > Other (2) backends remain. The backends are AFAIK pluggable, so it
> > should
> > > >
> > > > be possible to install the excluded backend as a separate module.
> > > >
> > > > Jan
> > > >
> > > > \[1\] the licenses are in libs.svnClientAdapter.svnkit/external
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 4:09 PM, Antonio anto...@vieiro.net wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi there,
> > > > >
> > > > > As far as I remember the support of svn in NetBeans was due to
> > > licensing
> > > > >
> > > > > issues. This has nothing to do with who uses subversion or not.
> > > FreeBSD, as
> > > > >
> > > > > an example, has been using/is using subversion successfully for
> > years.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Antonio
> > > > >
> > > > > On 08/03/18 15:29, Paul Franz wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > There has been a discussion going on in the NetBeans Users list
> > about
> > > > > >
> > > > > > removing support for SVN. And it was recommended to bring up the
> > > topic here.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just to give me 2 cents into the thought of removing Subversion
> > > support
> > > > > >
> > > > > > from NetBeans. I am against it just because older FLOSS projects
> > and
> > > of
> > > > > >
> > > > > > course older internal projects for corporations use Subversion.
> So
> > I
> > > think
> > > > > >
> > > > > > removing support for Subversion from NetBeans would be a bad
> > overall
> > > move.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just so that you have a little background on me. I use ClearCase
> > and
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Subversion for the corporation I work for. For my personal
> projects
> > > located
> > > > > >
> > > > > > on BitBucket I use Mercurial. And for most part in both cases I
> use
> > > the
> > > > > >
> > > > > > command-line for most of my source code control interaction. So I
> > > know that
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am an outlier, but my fellow developers need to GUIs

Re: Possible Removal of SVN

[Banee Ishaque]

A suggestion : Remove SVN from core - and make it available as a official
plug in.Then if we need SVN - simply add a plug in is enough.

In years ago - I used SVN and hg for VCS. But now git overriding them in my
projects.

On 11 Mar 2018 23:57, "Stephen Stewart"  wrote:

> As a Netbeans user I use SVN every day. Please do not remove it.
> Cheers,
> Stephen Stewart
>
> On 11 March 2018 at 19:26, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm not aware of any problem at all with Subversion in NetBeans -- I
> think
> > this discussion started with David Heffelfinger trying to gauge the
> > popularity and relevance of Subversion and CVS in NetBeans, for purposes
> of
> > prioritizing them for NetCAT testing. Looks to me like Subversion has
> > always been treated of equal priority to Git and Mercurial in NetBeans,
> > while that's less the case for CVS, just a lower priority in terms of how
> > much time is spent testing it as part of NetCAT.
> >
> > Also, those who care a lot about Subversion or CVS, or anything else,
> e.g.,
> > Git or Mercurial, should sign up to the NetCAT program to give feedback
> and
> > input etc.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:22 PM, Christian Lenz 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > As I understand it right, the SVN Support is still available in
> NetBeans,
> > > but the Problem was one of the components hase license Problems.
> > > Von: Emilian Bold
> > > Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. März 2018 19:15
> > > An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > Betreff: Re: Possible Removal of SVN
> > >
> > > Could the OP provide a link where it was decided to drop Subversion? I
> > > just don't remember this talk. But, I might have missed it.
> > >
> > > From what Jan mentions, only a Java SVN library was dropped but I think
> > we
> > > can still have Subversion support by calling the svn native binary?
> > >
> > > Obviously, being still in use and another Apache project means it would
> > be
> > > nice to provide Subversion support. From the looks of it we still do,
> > > correct?
> > >
> > > PS: As somebody that after many many years of Mercurial and Git had to
> > > commit to SVN, I found `git svn` entirely usable! So... there's also
> that
> > > option.
> > >
> > > --emi
> > >
> > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > >
> > > On 8 March 2018 6:54 PM, Jan Lahoda  wrote:
> > >
> > > > FWIW, IIRC, NetBeans is using different backends to work with SVN
> > > >
> > > > repositories, and one of the backends is has a license\[1\] that is
> > > >
> > > > possibly/probably incompatible with an Apache project, so that one
> was
> > > >
> > > > excluded:
> > > >
> > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/commit/
> > > e32f86aeecc1b0bb890ff95ed7e1c31c6da25cb6
> > > >
> > > > Other (2) backends remain. The backends are AFAIK pluggable, so it
> > should
> > > >
> > > > be possible to install the excluded backend as a separate module.
> > > >
> > > > Jan
> > > >
> > > > \[1\] the licenses are in libs.svnClientAdapter.svnkit/external
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 4:09 PM, Antonio anto...@vieiro.net wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi there,
> > > > >
> > > > > As far as I remember the support of svn in NetBeans was due to
> > > licensing
> > > > >
> > > > > issues. This has nothing to do with who uses subversion or not.
> > > FreeBSD, as
> > > > >
> > > > > an example, has been using/is using subversion successfully for
> > years.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Antonio
> > > > >
> > > > > On 08/03/18 15:29, Paul Franz wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > There has been a discussion going on in the NetBeans Users list
> > about
> > > > > >
> > > > > > removing support for SVN. And it was recommended to bring up the
> > > topic here.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just to give me 2 cents into the thought of removing Subversion
> > > support
> > > > > >
> > > > > > from NetBeans. I am against it just because older FLOSS projects
> > and
> > > of
> > > > > >
> > > > > > course older internal projects for corporations use Subversion.
> So
> > I
> > > think
> > > > > >
> > > > > > removing support for Subversion from NetBeans would be a bad
> > overall
> > > move.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just so that you have a little background on me. I use ClearCase
> > and
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Subversion for the corporation I work for. For my personal
> projects
> > > located
> > > > > >
> > > > > > on BitBucket I use Mercurial. And for most part in both cases I
> use
> > > the
> > > > > >
> > > > > > command-line for most of my source code control interaction. So I
> > > know that
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am an outlier, but my fellow developers need to GUIs to
> interact
> > > with
> > > > > >
> > > > > > source code control.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Paul Franz
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Senior Principal Applications Engineer
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Oracle Transportation Management
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Forwarded message:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: Claus Lüthje claus.luet...@thet

AW: Possible Removal of SVN

[Christian Lenz]

@banee as I mentioned it in some other Posts of me, that was done with Ruby and 
UML and what happens to them? Ruby is working but not really developed further 
and UML is Kind of dead. easyUML is not that good and well maintained. But as 
Geertjan said, SVN will still there. 


Von: Banee Ishaque
Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. März 2018 19:37
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Possible Removal of SVN

A suggestion : Remove SVN from core - and make it available as a official
plug in.Then if we need SVN - simply add a plug in is enough.

In years ago - I used SVN and hg for VCS. But now git overriding them in my
projects.

On 11 Mar 2018 23:57, "Stephen Stewart"  wrote:

> As a Netbeans user I use SVN every day. Please do not remove it.
> Cheers,
> Stephen Stewart
>
> On 11 March 2018 at 19:26, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm not aware of any problem at all with Subversion in NetBeans -- I
> think
> > this discussion started with David Heffelfinger trying to gauge the
> > popularity and relevance of Subversion and CVS in NetBeans, for purposes
> of
> > prioritizing them for NetCAT testing. Looks to me like Subversion has
> > always been treated of equal priority to Git and Mercurial in NetBeans,
> > while that's less the case for CVS, just a lower priority in terms of how
> > much time is spent testing it as part of NetCAT.
> >
> > Also, those who care a lot about Subversion or CVS, or anything else,
> e.g.,
> > Git or Mercurial, should sign up to the NetCAT program to give feedback
> and
> > input etc.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:22 PM, Christian Lenz 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > As I understand it right, the SVN Support is still available in
> NetBeans,
> > > but the Problem was one of the components hase license Problems.
> > > Von: Emilian Bold
> > > Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. März 2018 19:15
> > > An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > Betreff: Re: Possible Removal of SVN
> > >
> > > Could the OP provide a link where it was decided to drop Subversion? I
> > > just don't remember this talk. But, I might have missed it.
> > >
> > > From what Jan mentions, only a Java SVN library was dropped but I think
> > we
> > > can still have Subversion support by calling the svn native binary?
> > >
> > > Obviously, being still in use and another Apache project means it would
> > be
> > > nice to provide Subversion support. From the looks of it we still do,
> > > correct?
> > >
> > > PS: As somebody that after many many years of Mercurial and Git had to
> > > commit to SVN, I found `git svn` entirely usable! So... there's also
> that
> > > option.
> > >
> > > --emi
> > >
> > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > >
> > > On 8 March 2018 6:54 PM, Jan Lahoda  wrote:
> > >
> > > > FWIW, IIRC, NetBeans is using different backends to work with SVN
> > > >
> > > > repositories, and one of the backends is has a license\[1\] that is
> > > >
> > > > possibly/probably incompatible with an Apache project, so that one
> was
> > > >
> > > > excluded:
> > > >
> > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/commit/
> > > e32f86aeecc1b0bb890ff95ed7e1c31c6da25cb6
> > > >
> > > > Other (2) backends remain. The backends are AFAIK pluggable, so it
> > should
> > > >
> > > > be possible to install the excluded backend as a separate module.
> > > >
> > > > Jan
> > > >
> > > > \[1\] the licenses are in libs.svnClientAdapter.svnkit/external
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 4:09 PM, Antonio anto...@vieiro.net wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi there,
> > > > >
> > > > > As far as I remember the support of svn in NetBeans was due to
> > > licensing
> > > > >
> > > > > issues. This has nothing to do with who uses subversion or not.
> > > FreeBSD, as
> > > > >
> > > > > an example, has been using/is using subversion successfully for
> > years.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Antonio
> > > > >
> > > > > On 08/03/18 15:29, Paul Franz wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > There has been a discussion going on in the NetBeans Users list
> > about
> > > > > >
> > > > > > removing support for SVN. And it was recommended to bring up the
> > > topic here.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just to give me 2 cents into the thought of removing Subversion
> > > support
> > > > > >
> > > > > > from NetBeans. I am against it just because older FLOSS projects
> > and
> > > of
> > > > > >
> > > > > > course older internal projects for corporations use Subversion.
> So
> > I
> > > think
> > > > > >
> > > > > > removing support for Subversion from NetBeans would be a bad
> > overall
> > > move.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just so that you have a little background on me. I use ClearCase
> > and
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Subversion for the corporation I work for. For my personal
> projects
> > > located
> > > > > >
> > > > > > on BitBucket I use Mercurial. And for most part in both cases I
> use
> > > the
> > > > > >
> > > > > > command-line for most of my source code control interaction. So I
> > > know

Re: Possible Removal of SVN

[Geertjan Wielenga]

I don't get it, at all. :-) Why on earth would we want to remove
Subversion? Again, this whole discussion started on users@ simply to see
who wants to work on testing of Subversion and CVS in the NetCAT program.

Thanks,

Gj

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:39 PM, Christian Lenz 
wrote:

> @banee as I mentioned it in some other Posts of me, that was done with
> Ruby and UML and what happens to them? Ruby is working but not really
> developed further and UML is Kind of dead. easyUML is not that good and
> well maintained. But as Geertjan said, SVN will still there.
>
>
> Von: Banee Ishaque
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. März 2018 19:37
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: Possible Removal of SVN
>
> A suggestion : Remove SVN from core - and make it available as a official
> plug in.Then if we need SVN - simply add a plug in is enough.
>
> In years ago - I used SVN and hg for VCS. But now git overriding them in my
> projects.
>
> On 11 Mar 2018 23:57, "Stephen Stewart"  wrote:
>
> > As a Netbeans user I use SVN every day. Please do not remove it.
> > Cheers,
> > Stephen Stewart
> >
> > On 11 March 2018 at 19:26, Geertjan Wielenga <
> > geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not aware of any problem at all with Subversion in NetBeans -- I
> > think
> > > this discussion started with David Heffelfinger trying to gauge the
> > > popularity and relevance of Subversion and CVS in NetBeans, for
> purposes
> > of
> > > prioritizing them for NetCAT testing. Looks to me like Subversion has
> > > always been treated of equal priority to Git and Mercurial in NetBeans,
> > > while that's less the case for CVS, just a lower priority in terms of
> how
> > > much time is spent testing it as part of NetCAT.
> > >
> > > Also, those who care a lot about Subversion or CVS, or anything else,
> > e.g.,
> > > Git or Mercurial, should sign up to the NetCAT program to give feedback
> > and
> > > input etc.
> > >
> > > Gj
> > >
> > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:22 PM, Christian Lenz <
> christian.l...@gmx.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > As I understand it right, the SVN Support is still available in
> > NetBeans,
> > > > but the Problem was one of the components hase license Problems.
> > > > Von: Emilian Bold
> > > > Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. März 2018 19:15
> > > > An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > > Betreff: Re: Possible Removal of SVN
> > > >
> > > > Could the OP provide a link where it was decided to drop Subversion?
> I
> > > > just don't remember this talk. But, I might have missed it.
> > > >
> > > > From what Jan mentions, only a Java SVN library was dropped but I
> think
> > > we
> > > > can still have Subversion support by calling the svn native binary?
> > > >
> > > > Obviously, being still in use and another Apache project means it
> would
> > > be
> > > > nice to provide Subversion support. From the looks of it we still do,
> > > > correct?
> > > >
> > > > PS: As somebody that after many many years of Mercurial and Git had
> to
> > > > commit to SVN, I found `git svn` entirely usable! So... there's also
> > that
> > > > option.
> > > >
> > > > --emi
> > > >
> > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > > >
> > > > On 8 March 2018 6:54 PM, Jan Lahoda  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > FWIW, IIRC, NetBeans is using different backends to work with SVN
> > > > >
> > > > > repositories, and one of the backends is has a license\[1\] that is
> > > > >
> > > > > possibly/probably incompatible with an Apache project, so that one
> > was
> > > > >
> > > > > excluded:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/commit/
> > > > e32f86aeecc1b0bb890ff95ed7e1c31c6da25cb6
> > > > >
> > > > > Other (2) backends remain. The backends are AFAIK pluggable, so it
> > > should
> > > > >
> > > > > be possible to install the excluded backend as a separate module.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jan
> > > > >
> > > > > \[1\] the licenses are in libs.svnClientAdapter.svnkit/external
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 4:09 PM, Antonio anto...@vieiro.net wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi there,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As far as I remember the support of svn in NetBeans was due to
> > > > licensing
> > > > > >
> > > > > > issues. This has nothing to do with who uses subversion or not.
> > > > FreeBSD, as
> > > > > >
> > > > > > an example, has been using/is using subversion successfully for
> > > years.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Antonio
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 08/03/18 15:29, Paul Franz wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > There has been a discussion going on in the NetBeans Users list
> > > about
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > removing support for SVN. And it was recommended to bring up
> the
> > > > topic here.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just to give me 2 cents into the thought of removing Subversion
> > > > support
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > from NetBeans. I am against it just because older FLOSS
> projects
> > > and
> > > > of
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > course older internal pro

AW: Possible Removal of SVN

[Christian Lenz]

It is like rumors works. It is as it is. Some one said smth and everyone is 
thinking omg. Me too, but for me it is clear now.

Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. März 2018 19:42
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Possible Removal of SVN

I don't get it, at all. :-) Why on earth would we want to remove
Subversion? Again, this whole discussion started on users@ simply to see
who wants to work on testing of Subversion and CVS in the NetCAT program.

Thanks,

Gj

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:39 PM, Christian Lenz 
wrote:

> @banee as I mentioned it in some other Posts of me, that was done with
> Ruby and UML and what happens to them? Ruby is working but not really
> developed further and UML is Kind of dead. easyUML is not that good and
> well maintained. But as Geertjan said, SVN will still there.
>
>
> Von: Banee Ishaque
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. März 2018 19:37
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: Possible Removal of SVN
>
> A suggestion : Remove SVN from core - and make it available as a official
> plug in.Then if we need SVN - simply add a plug in is enough.
>
> In years ago - I used SVN and hg for VCS. But now git overriding them in my
> projects.
>
> On 11 Mar 2018 23:57, "Stephen Stewart"  wrote:
>
> > As a Netbeans user I use SVN every day. Please do not remove it.
> > Cheers,
> > Stephen Stewart
> >
> > On 11 March 2018 at 19:26, Geertjan Wielenga <
> > geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm not aware of any problem at all with Subversion in NetBeans -- I
> > think
> > > this discussion started with David Heffelfinger trying to gauge the
> > > popularity and relevance of Subversion and CVS in NetBeans, for
> purposes
> > of
> > > prioritizing them for NetCAT testing. Looks to me like Subversion has
> > > always been treated of equal priority to Git and Mercurial in NetBeans,
> > > while that's less the case for CVS, just a lower priority in terms of
> how
> > > much time is spent testing it as part of NetCAT.
> > >
> > > Also, those who care a lot about Subversion or CVS, or anything else,
> > e.g.,
> > > Git or Mercurial, should sign up to the NetCAT program to give feedback
> > and
> > > input etc.
> > >
> > > Gj
> > >
> > > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 7:22 PM, Christian Lenz <
> christian.l...@gmx.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > As I understand it right, the SVN Support is still available in
> > NetBeans,
> > > > but the Problem was one of the components hase license Problems.
> > > > Von: Emilian Bold
> > > > Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. März 2018 19:15
> > > > An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > > Betreff: Re: Possible Removal of SVN
> > > >
> > > > Could the OP provide a link where it was decided to drop Subversion?
> I
> > > > just don't remember this talk. But, I might have missed it.
> > > >
> > > > From what Jan mentions, only a Java SVN library was dropped but I
> think
> > > we
> > > > can still have Subversion support by calling the svn native binary?
> > > >
> > > > Obviously, being still in use and another Apache project means it
> would
> > > be
> > > > nice to provide Subversion support. From the looks of it we still do,
> > > > correct?
> > > >
> > > > PS: As somebody that after many many years of Mercurial and Git had
> to
> > > > commit to SVN, I found `git svn` entirely usable! So... there's also
> > that
> > > > option.
> > > >
> > > > --emi
> > > >
> > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > > >
> > > > On 8 March 2018 6:54 PM, Jan Lahoda  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > FWIW, IIRC, NetBeans is using different backends to work with SVN
> > > > >
> > > > > repositories, and one of the backends is has a license\[1\] that is
> > > > >
> > > > > possibly/probably incompatible with an Apache project, so that one
> > was
> > > > >
> > > > > excluded:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/commit/
> > > > e32f86aeecc1b0bb890ff95ed7e1c31c6da25cb6
> > > > >
> > > > > Other (2) backends remain. The backends are AFAIK pluggable, so it
> > > should
> > > > >
> > > > > be possible to install the excluded backend as a separate module.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jan
> > > > >
> > > > > \[1\] the licenses are in libs.svnClientAdapter.svnkit/external
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 4:09 PM, Antonio anto...@vieiro.net wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi there,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As far as I remember the support of svn in NetBeans was due to
> > > > licensing
> > > > > >
> > > > > > issues. This has nothing to do with who uses subversion or not.
> > > > FreeBSD, as
> > > > > >
> > > > > > an example, has been using/is using subversion successfully for
> > > years.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Antonio
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 08/03/18 15:29, Paul Franz wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > There has been a discussion going on in the NetBeans Users list
> > > about
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > removing support for SVN. And it was recommended to bring up
> the
> > > > topic here.
> > > > > >

Re: dpi on Windows Java 9

[Emilian Bold]

I don't have an answer but, just to confirm, your Windows laptop is HiDPI, 
correct?

--emi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 11 March 2018 8:14 PM,  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I recently switched to a windows machine. When building NB from sources and 
> running it on JDK8 it looks normal, i.e. like 8.2, but when running on JDK9 
> icons are pixelated and double the size.
> 
> Any idea how to fix this? I’ll show NB JShell integration at a conference on 
> Tuesday, and it would be great to have a nice looking NB for that 😊.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Toni



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AW: dpi on Windows Java 9

[toni.epple]

It's a 13,3" FHD 1920 x 1080 with app scaling set to 150%. Not sure if that 
already counts as high dpi.

Toni 

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Emilian Bold  
Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. März 2018 19:49
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: dpi on Windows Java 9

I don't have an answer but, just to confirm, your Windows laptop is HiDPI, 
correct?

--emi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 11 March 2018 8:14 PM,  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I recently switched to a windows machine. When building NB from sources and 
> running it on JDK8 it looks normal, i.e. like 8.2, but when running on JDK9 
> icons are pixelated and double the size.
> 
> Any idea how to fix this? I’ll show NB JShell integration at a conference on 
> Tuesday, and it would be great to have a nice looking NB for that 😊.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Toni



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Re: dpi on Windows Java 9

[Neil C Smith]

Hi,

On Sun, 11 Mar 2018, 19:02 ,  wrote:

> It's a 13,3" FHD 1920 x 1080 with app scaling set to 150%. Not sure if
> that already counts as high dpi.
>

Looks like you're not alone anyway
https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8187367

Not sure if there's a workaround amongst that lot!

Best wishes,

Neil

> --
Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
www.neilcsmith.net

Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org

Re: incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-beta-bin.zip

[Emilian Bold]

I can't find a document explaining what dist.apache.org is.

It seems to be the "staging area" for the binaries.

My guess is that somebody fumbled a command from this huge list of steps 
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+Release+README

I don't believe we need to involve the security team until we dismiss a typo.

--emi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 8 March 2018 11:57 PM, Antonio  wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> José Rodriguez from the users mailing list notes that the
> 
> "incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-beta-bin.zip" files from \[1\]
> 
> (dist.apache.org) and \[2\] (http://www-eu.apache.org) have different MD5
> 
> signatures.
> 
> A quick review shows that the files are indeed different:
> 
> "dist" zip file (\[1\])::
> 
> -   File timestamps 2018 jan 10
> -   No "licenses" directory
> -   LICENSE file is 57kb
> 
> "eu zip" file (\[2\]) also downloaded from the Apache mirror system::
> 
> -   File timestamps 2018 feb 02
> -   "licenses" directory
> -   LICENSE file is 245,1 kb
> 
> I think the one being distributed through the mirror system is the
> 
> proper one, isn't it? Also I thought that the file hosted at "dist" was
> 
> automatically distributed to mirrors, wasn't it?
> 
> I don't think we should raise a ticket against Apache security, should we?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Antonio
> 
> \[1\]
> 
> 
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-beta-bin.zip
> 
> \[2\]
> 
> 
> http://www-eu.apache.org/dist/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-beta-bin.zip
> 
> On 08/03/18 20:21, John McDonnell wrote:
> 
> 
> > Apologies for the spam, cross posting to dev.
> > 
> > @Antonio, do you know if the link on the website for NetBeans 9.0 Beta
> > 
> > is correct?  Looking at this thread, the signature doesn't match the
> > 
> > RC3.0 thread we voted on.  If we have a small typo we should try to
> > 
> > catch this early in the NetCat phase.
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> > John
> > 
> > On 8 March 2018 at 07:47, John McDonnell  > 
> > mailto:mcdonnell.j...@gmail.com\> wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Leo,
> > 
> > I didn't import the keys, as I had previously done this step...
> > 
> > But
> > 
> > I'm looking at a different file then you:
> > 
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-beta-bin.zip(you)
> > 
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta-rc3/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-beta-bin.zip(me)
> > 
> > @Geertjan, the vote thread you referenced earlier, we voted on the
> > link I used - and got a good signature, so I think that's okay.  But
> > the website points to a different URL (The one Leo checked).  I
> > suspect that the website is using the wrong URL, but before I jump
> > to that conclusion, just curious after the successful vote would you
> > have moved theartefact to the location on the website?
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> > John
> > 
> > 
> > On 8 March 2018 at 01:50, Leo Donahue  > > wrote:
> > 
> > Hi John,
> > 
> > I noticed that you didn't issue:  gpg --import KEYS
> > 
> > I tried again, using wget to download the binary zip file, same
> > result.  I have also tried different mirrors.  I guess I will
> > just build from source, I was just being lazy.
> > 
> > (The --list-keys command illustrates I don't already have the
> > KEYS file imported)
> > 
> > leo@vmw01:~$ *gpg --list-keys*
> > leo@vmw01:~$ *wget
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/incubator/netbeans/KEYS
> > 
> > *
> > --2018-03-07 18:40:53--
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/incubator/netbeans/KEYS
> > 
> > Resolving dist.apache.org 
> > (dist.apache.org )... 209.188.14.144
> > Connecting to dist.apache.org 
> > (dist.apache.org
> > )|209.188.14.144|:443... connected.
> > HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
> > Length: 7594 (7.4K) [text/plain]
> > Saving to: ‘KEYS’
> > 
> > KEYS 
> > 
> > 100%[===>]
> >  
> >   7.42K  --.-KB/s    in 0s
> > 
> > 2018-03-07 18:40:54 (42.0 MB/s) - ‘KEYS’ saved [7594/7594]
> > 
> 

Re: AW: Possible Removal of SVN

[Glenn Holmer]

On 03/11/2018 01:45 PM, Christian Lenz wrote:
> It is like rumors works. It is as it is. Some one said smth and
> everyone is thinking omg. Me too, but for me it is clear now.

One person in particular on the users list is making a fuss over it
(saying re. Subversion that we should "discourage its use"), and is even
claiming that the CVS plugin isn't available any more (which has been
disproved with screenshots). Much ado about nothing, IMHO.

-- 
Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
"After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."

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Re: dpi on Windows Java 9

[Zoran Sevarac]

Hi Toni

Try if -J-Dsun.java2d.dpiaware=false in netbeans_default_options in
/etc/netbeans.conf solves the problem
This is the swing problem, and maybe we should consider using false as the
default setting

Cheers
Zoran

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:02 PM,  wrote:

> It's a 13,3" FHD 1920 x 1080 with app scaling set to 150%. Not sure if
> that already counts as high dpi.
>
> Toni
>
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Emilian Bold 
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. März 2018 19:49
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: dpi on Windows Java 9
>
> I don't have an answer but, just to confirm, your Windows laptop is HiDPI,
> correct?
>
> --emi
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>
> On 11 March 2018 8:14 PM,  wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I recently switched to a windows machine. When building NB from sources
> and running it on JDK8 it looks normal, i.e. like 8.2, but when running on
> JDK9 icons are pixelated and double the size.
> >
> > Any idea how to fix this? I’ll show NB JShell integration at a
> conference on Tuesday, and it would be great to have a nice looking NB for
> that 😊.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Toni
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
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>
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>
>
>
>


-- 
Zoran Sevarac, PhD, Assistant Professor
Department of Software Engineering
University of Belgrade, Faculty of Organisational Sciences

Neuroph  founder | Java Champion
 | NetBeans
Dream Team 
Homepage: http://www.zoransevarac.com

Re: dpi on Windows Java 9

[cowwoc]

I might be in the minority, but I actually prefer the new look. It makes 
Netbeans a lot easier to use in high DPI environments (yes, on Windows). 
Netbeans with JDK 8 looks super tiny.


In my opinion, the correct fix would be for applications to provide 
higher resolution icons :) It's a win-win for everyone.


Gili

On 2018-03-11 3:14 PM, Neil C Smith wrote:

Hi,

On Sun, 11 Mar 2018, 19:02 ,  wrote:


It's a 13,3" FHD 1920 x 1080 with app scaling set to 150%. Not sure if
that already counts as high dpi.


Looks like you're not alone anyway
https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8187367

Not sure if there's a workaround amongst that lot!

Best wishes,

Neil


--

Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
www.neilcsmith.net

Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org




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Re: incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-beta-bin.zip

[Jan Lahoda]

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:20 PM, Emilian Bold 
wrote:

> I can't find a document explaining what dist.apache.org is.
>

My understanding is that there is a staging area there ("dev") and a
release area ("release"). I guess we shouldn't be pointing at the staging
area except for release votes (and, actually, my understanding is that we
should remove the stuff from the staging area when the vote ends one way or
another, although we didn't do that yet for this release). One important
thing is that:
https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-beta-bin.zip.md5

Is effectively 9.0 beta RC1, which didn't get released. The 9.0 beta
release is RC3:
https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta-rc3/

So the RC1 is different from the released package. Anyway, unless someone
else does it, I'll remove the bits from the staging area sometime soon.

Jan


>
> It seems to be the "staging area" for the binaries.
>
> My guess is that somebody fumbled a command from this huge list of steps
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/
> Apache+NetBeans+Release+README
>
> I don't believe we need to involve the security team until we dismiss a
> typo.
>
> --emi
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>
> On 8 March 2018 11:57 PM, Antonio  wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > José Rodriguez from the users mailing list notes that the
> >
> > "incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-beta-bin.zip" files from \[1\]
> >
> > (dist.apache.org) and \[2\] (http://www-eu.apache.org) have different
> MD5
> >
> > signatures.
> >
> > A quick review shows that the files are indeed different:
> >
> > "dist" zip file (\[1\])::
> >
> > -   File timestamps 2018 jan 10
> > -   No "licenses" directory
> > -   LICENSE file is 57kb
> >
> > "eu zip" file (\[2\]) also downloaded from the Apache mirror system::
> >
> > -   File timestamps 2018 feb 02
> > -   "licenses" directory
> > -   LICENSE file is 245,1 kb
> >
> > I think the one being distributed through the mirror system is the
> >
> > proper one, isn't it? Also I thought that the file hosted at "dist"
> was
> >
> > automatically distributed to mirrors, wasn't it?
> >
> > I don't think we should raise a ticket against Apache security,
> should we?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Antonio
> >
> > \[1\]
> >
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/
> incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-
> beta-bin.zip
> >
> > \[2\]
> >
> > http://www-eu.apache.org/dist/incubator/netbeans/incubating-
> netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta/incubating-netbeans-java-
> 9.0-beta-bin.zip
> >
> > On 08/03/18 20:21, John McDonnell wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Apologies for the spam, cross posting to dev.
> > >
> > > @Antonio, do you know if the link on the website for NetBeans 9.0 Beta
> > >
> > > is correct?  Looking at this thread, the signature doesn't match the
> > >
> > > RC3.0 thread we voted on.  If we have a small typo we should try to
> > >
> > > catch this early in the NetCat phase.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > On 8 March 2018 at 07:47, John McDonnell  > >
> > > mailto:mcdonnell.j...@gmail.com\> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Leo,
> > >
> > > I didn't import the keys, as I had previously done this step...
> > >
> > > But
> > >
> > > I'm looking at a different file then you:
> > > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/
> incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-
> beta-bin.zip(you)
> > > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/
> incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta-rc3/
> incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-beta-bin.zip(me)
> > >
> > > @Geertjan, the vote thread you referenced earlier, we voted on the
> > > link I used - and got a good signature, so I think that's okay.
> But
> > > the website points to a different URL (The one Leo checked).  I
> > > suspect that the website is using the wrong URL, but before I jump
> > > to that conclusion, just curious after the successful vote would
> you
> > > have moved theartefact to the location on the website?
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > > On 8 March 2018 at 01:50, Leo Donahue  > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi John,
> > >
> > > I noticed that you didn't issue:  gpg --import KEYS
> > >
> > > I tried again, using wget to download the binary zip file, same
> > > result.  I have also tried different mirrors.  I guess I will
> > > just build from source, I was just being lazy.
> > >
> > > (The --list-keys command illustrates I don't already have the
> > > KEYS file imported)
> > >
> > > leo@vmw01:~$ *gpg --list-keys*
> > > leo@vmw01:~$ *wget
> > > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/

Re: dpi on Windows Java 9

[Emilian Bold]

> In my opinion, the correct fix would be for applications to provide
> higher resolution icons :) It's a win-win for everyone.

https://nextbeans.com/retina
https://jaxenter.com/netbeans/netbeans-retina

--emi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 11 March 2018 9:49 PM, cowwoc  wrote:

> I might be in the minority, but I actually prefer the new look. It makes
> 
> Netbeans a lot easier to use in high DPI environments (yes, on Windows).
> 
> Netbeans with JDK 8 looks super tiny.
> 
> In my opinion, the correct fix would be for applications to provide
> 
> higher resolution icons :) It's a win-win for everyone.
> 
> Gili
> 
> On 2018-03-11 3:14 PM, Neil C Smith wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > On Sun, 11 Mar 2018, 19:02 , toni.ep...@eppleton.de wrote:
> > 
> > > It's a 13,3" FHD 1920 x 1080 with app scaling set to 150%. Not sure if
> > > 
> > > that already counts as high dpi.
> > 
> > Looks like you're not alone anyway
> > 
> > https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8187367
> > 
> > Not sure if there's a workaround amongst that lot!
> > 
> > Best wishes,
> > 
> > Neil
> > 
> > > --
> > > 
> > > Neil C Smith
> > > 
> > > Artist & Technologist
> > > 
> > > www.neilcsmith.net
> > 
> > Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
> 
> --
> 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists


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Re: incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-beta-bin.zip

[John McDonnell]

So the website should be updated and the netcat program notified to use the
correct download.

I can send out the netcat notification in an hour or so(travelling at the
moment) if needed but I don't have the website checked out yet to update
that.

John

On 11 Mar 2018 19:52, "Jan Lahoda"  wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:20 PM, Emilian Bold 
> wrote:
>
> > I can't find a document explaining what dist.apache.org is.
> >
>
> My understanding is that there is a staging area there ("dev") and a
> release area ("release"). I guess we shouldn't be pointing at the staging
> area except for release votes (and, actually, my understanding is that we
> should remove the stuff from the staging area when the vote ends one way or
> another, although we didn't do that yet for this release). One important
> thing is that:
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/
> incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-
> beta-bin.zip.md5
>
> Is effectively 9.0 beta RC1, which didn't get released. The 9.0 beta
> release is RC3:
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/
> incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta-rc3/
>
> So the RC1 is different from the released package. Anyway, unless someone
> else does it, I'll remove the bits from the staging area sometime soon.
>
> Jan
>
>
> >
> > It seems to be the "staging area" for the binaries.
> >
> > My guess is that somebody fumbled a command from this huge list of steps
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/
> > Apache+NetBeans+Release+README
> >
> > I don't believe we need to involve the security team until we dismiss a
> > typo.
> >
> > --emi
> >
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> >
> > On 8 March 2018 11:57 PM, Antonio  wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > José Rodriguez from the users mailing list notes that the
> > >
> > > "incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-beta-bin.zip" files from \[1\]
> > >
> > > (dist.apache.org) and \[2\] (http://www-eu.apache.org) have different
> > MD5
> > >
> > > signatures.
> > >
> > > A quick review shows that the files are indeed different:
> > >
> > > "dist" zip file (\[1\])::
> > >
> > > -   File timestamps 2018 jan 10
> > > -   No "licenses" directory
> > > -   LICENSE file is 57kb
> > >
> > > "eu zip" file (\[2\]) also downloaded from the Apache mirror
> system::
> > >
> > > -   File timestamps 2018 feb 02
> > > -   "licenses" directory
> > > -   LICENSE file is 245,1 kb
> > >
> > > I think the one being distributed through the mirror system is the
> > >
> > > proper one, isn't it? Also I thought that the file hosted at "dist"
> > was
> > >
> > > automatically distributed to mirrors, wasn't it?
> > >
> > > I don't think we should raise a ticket against Apache security,
> > should we?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Antonio
> > >
> > > \[1\]
> > >
> > > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/
> > incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta/
> incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-
> > beta-bin.zip
> > >
> > > \[2\]
> > >
> > > http://www-eu.apache.org/dist/incubator/netbeans/incubating-
> > netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta/incubating-netbeans-java-
> > 9.0-beta-bin.zip
> > >
> > > On 08/03/18 20:21, John McDonnell wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > Apologies for the spam, cross posting to dev.
> > > >
> > > > @Antonio, do you know if the link on the website for NetBeans 9.0
> Beta
> > > >
> > > > is correct?  Looking at this thread, the signature doesn't match the
> > > >
> > > > RC3.0 thread we voted on.  If we have a small typo we should try to
> > > >
> > > > catch this early in the NetCat phase.
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > > On 8 March 2018 at 07:47, John McDonnell  > > >
> > > > mailto:mcdonnell.j...@gmail.com\> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Leo,
> > > >
> > > > I didn't import the keys, as I had previously done this step...
> > > >
> > > > But
> > > >
> > > > I'm looking at a different file then you:
> > > > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/
> > incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta/
> incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-
> > beta-bin.zip(you)
> > > > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/
> > incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta-rc3/
> > incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-beta-bin.zip(me)
> > > >
> > > > @Geertjan, the vote thread you referenced earlier, we voted on
> the
> > > > link I used - and got a good signature, so I think that's okay.
> > But
> > > > the website points to a different URL (The one Leo checked).  I
> > > > suspect that the website is using the wrong URL, but before I
> jump
> > > > to that conclusion, just curious after the successful vote would
> > you
> > > > have moved theartefact to the location on the website?
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 8 March 2018 at 01:50, Leo Donahue  > > > 

AW: dpi on Windows Java 9

[Christian Lenz]

So someone should merge that great work of Emilian bold into the NetBeans core 
Code. Maybe Emilian is willing to make a PR to the core Code. That would be 
great.

Gesendet von Mail für Windows 10

Von: Emilian Bold
Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. März 2018 21:07
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: dpi on Windows Java 9

> In my opinion, the correct fix would be for applications to provide
> higher resolution icons :) It's a win-win for everyone.

https://nextbeans.com/retina
https://jaxenter.com/netbeans/netbeans-retina

--emi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On 11 March 2018 9:49 PM, cowwoc  wrote:

> I might be in the minority, but I actually prefer the new look. It makes
> 
> Netbeans a lot easier to use in high DPI environments (yes, on Windows).
> 
> Netbeans with JDK 8 looks super tiny.
> 
> In my opinion, the correct fix would be for applications to provide
> 
> higher resolution icons :) It's a win-win for everyone.
> 
> Gili
> 
> On 2018-03-11 3:14 PM, Neil C Smith wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > On Sun, 11 Mar 2018, 19:02 , toni.ep...@eppleton.de wrote:
> > 
> > > It's a 13,3" FHD 1920 x 1080 with app scaling set to 150%. Not sure if
> > > 
> > > that already counts as high dpi.
> > 
> > Looks like you're not alone anyway
> > 
> > https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8187367
> > 
> > Not sure if there's a workaround amongst that lot!
> > 
> > Best wishes,
> > 
> > Neil
> > 
> > > --
> > > 
> > > Neil C Smith
> > > 
> > > Artist & Technologist
> > > 
> > > www.neilcsmith.net
> > 
> > Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
> 
> --
> 
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> 
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists


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Re: dpi on Windows Java 9

[Tim Boudreau]

IMO, if we wanted to do this and be future-proof, the thing to do would be
to convert the icons to SVG or some similar vector format and update the
icon loading code in ImageUtilities to use it.

There are some tools - particularly potrace - that can assist in initial
conversion, but deal in tracing lines and shapes and give 2- or 3- color
output (potrace lets you set a single interior color for closed shapes),
but which could be helpful as a start.

Given that SVG is XML-based, I could imagine that just using something like
Batik to load SVG would be unacceptable;  but SVG could be used as a
designer-friendly input stage, and then be compiled by the build process
into something more performant (either literal Java code that paints the
contents of the svg, or some binary representation of drawing
instructions), much the same way resource bundle message annotations are
turned into static methods.

I've written code before that implements a Graphics2D that simply stores a
list of everything it was told to do - wouldn't be that hard to take the
list of drawing instructions from there and generate Java code to reproduce
those steps.

Straw man example:

 - Code that uses an SVG icon is annotated with
@Icon("org/netbeans/modules/x/myIcon.svg")
 - At build time:
   - Annotation processor looks up that file, reads it with Batik, paints
it into a code-generating Graphics2D which outputs a generated static
method myIcon() on a generated class in the same package
   - Code that wants to use the icon calls the static method, the same way
bundle messages are loaded in modern NetBeans code
 - At run time:
   - If using the generated static method, the output is just an image or
an icon, no surprises
   - For the case where icons are shared across modules (this happens),
ImageUtilities could be tweaked to, in the case of a .svg extension, try to
look up the generated class / method (and optionally fall back to Batik if
nobody minded a dependency on it, but that could be pluggable via Lookup if
it's even needed)

The hard part is converting to SVG, since turning an image into efficient
vectors is a genuinely hard problem where there are many non-optimal
answers and few optimal ones - particularly for converting gradients.  I
could imagine getting a little better output by running the icon through
potrace with several color filters on it and combining the output.  But
likely it simply requires a bunch of manual tweaking.

-Tim


On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 4:07 PM, Emilian Bold 
wrote:

> > In my opinion, the correct fix would be for applications to provide
> > higher resolution icons :) It's a win-win for everyone.
>
> https://nextbeans.com/retina
> https://jaxenter.com/netbeans/netbeans-retina
>
> --emi
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>
> On 11 March 2018 9:49 PM, cowwoc  wrote:
>
> > I might be in the minority, but I actually prefer the new look. It makes
> >
> > Netbeans a lot easier to use in high DPI environments (yes, on Windows).
> >
> > Netbeans with JDK 8 looks super tiny.
> >
> > In my opinion, the correct fix would be for applications to provide
> >
> > higher resolution icons :) It's a win-win for everyone.
> >
> > Gili
> >
> > On 2018-03-11 3:14 PM, Neil C Smith wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > On Sun, 11 Mar 2018, 19:02 , toni.ep...@eppleton.de wrote:
> > >
> > > > It's a 13,3" FHD 1920 x 1080 with app scaling set to 150%. Not sure
> if
> > > >
> > > > that already counts as high dpi.
> > >
> > > Looks like you're not alone anyway
> > >
> > > https://bugs.openjdk.java.net/browse/JDK-8187367
> > >
> > > Not sure if there's a workaround amongst that lot!
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > >
> > > Neil
> > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Neil C Smith
> > > >
> > > > Artist & Technologist
> > > >
> > > > www.neilcsmith.net
> > >
> > > Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding -
> www.praxislive.org
> >
> > --
> >
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> >
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>


-- 
http://timboudreau.com

Re: Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK (was: Re: Noticed Oracle is Working to Remove Java FX, AWT, and Swing from Base Java/JDK)

[Chuck Davis]

That white paper says to me jdk11 is the end of the road for JSE at
Oracle.  Without Swing/JavaFX I can't think of a single reason to have JSE
on a computer.

The message of the white paper was clear: both Apple and Microsoft own
their platforms and the day is not too distant when both will exclude Java
from running on their platform.  Apple already stopped shipping Java.

The message is clear:  migrate to .net for windows or swift for mac.  Java
will only be running on Linux in the near future and that market is not big
enough to be attractive to Oracle.  There will be no more cross-platform
Java (or anything else) development.  Browsers will continue to be
available on all platforms -- if you want to play on somebody else's
platform you will abide by their rules.

It is a sad day but, admittedly, exclusivity is not a new idea to either
Apple or Microsoft.

What is the remedy?  Make alternatives so attractive IT managers will
CHOOSE to leave either MS or Apple for the alternative.

when does next code donation for netbeans happen ?

[emiddio-frontier]

Just wondering when next code donation for Netbeans will happen ?
Thanks
-Gary


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Re: Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK (was: Re: Noticed Oracle is Working to Remove Java FX, AWT, and Swing from Base Java/JDK)

[Wade Chandler]

On Mar 11, 2018, at 7:38 PM, Chuck Davis  wrote:
> 
> That white paper says to me jdk11 is the end of the road for JSE at
> Oracle.  Without Swing/JavaFX I can't think of a single reason to have JSE
> on a computer.

Maybe, but all the more reason for the stewards they mention. One can certainly 
run servers and services as Java applications on those systems too. But, yes, 
not directly making any money for Oracle. But SMBs can definitely make money 
off these things, and if the community wants to keep this stuff going, then 
they’ll have to chip in on the bits they care about. This was the main point of 
my writing in the first place; to figure out what we can do to support it. I 
imagine JetBrains will be involved as well. They are very dependent with their 
current products.

> 
> The message of the white paper was clear: both Apple and Microsoft own
> their platforms and the day is not too distant when both will exclude Java
> from running on their platform.  Apple already stopped shipping Java.
> 

“Exclude” seems overkill considering other environments/runtimes exist on both; 
Node, Qt, Rust, Go, etc.. .Net even exists on Mac. Them not shipping something 
directly is not the same as exclude.


> The message is clear:  migrate to .net for windows or swift for mac.  Java
> will only be running on Linux in the near future and that market is not big
> enough to be attractive to Oracle.  There will be no more cross-platform
> Java (or anything else) development.  Browsers will continue to be
> available on all platforms -- if you want to play on somebody else's
> platform you will abide by their rules.

The browsers everyone is using on those platforms are not written in the 
languages you mention, so I don’t see that as the show stopper.

> 
> It is a sad day but, admittedly, exclusivity is not a new idea to either
> Apple or Microsoft.
> 
> What is the remedy?  Make alternatives so attractive IT managers will
> CHOOSE to leave either MS or Apple for the alternative.

I don’t see that as a goal of the NB community, and it certainly doesn’t do 
anything for all the consumer devices. I do think we can help support desktop 
Java since we highly depend on it.

Wade

===

Wade Chandler
e: cons...@wadechandler.com
t: @wadechandler
https://www.linkedin.com/in/wade-chandler





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Re: when does next code donation for netbeans happen ?

[Geertjan Wielenga]

As soon as we can, trying to wrap it up at the moment. Hopefully will be
ready in the next few weeks.

Gj

On Monday, March 12, 2018, emiddio-frontier  wrote:

> Just wondering when next code donation for Netbeans will happen ?
> Thanks
> -Gary
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

Re: Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK (was: Re: Noticed Oracle is Working to Remove Java FX, AWT, and Swing from Base Java/JDK)

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Yeah, there’s never a reason to panic about this, it’s all good and how
things actually work out is unknown. You’ll see organizations popping up
that will take over the work, which is already the case with Gluon in
relation to JavaFX, for example.

Gj

On Monday, March 12, 2018, Wade Chandler  wrote:

> On Mar 11, 2018, at 7:38 PM, Chuck Davis  wrote:
> >
> > That white paper says to me jdk11 is the end of the road for JSE at
> > Oracle.  Without Swing/JavaFX I can't think of a single reason to have
> JSE
> > on a computer.
>
> Maybe, but all the more reason for the stewards they mention. One can
> certainly run servers and services as Java applications on those systems
> too. But, yes, not directly making any money for Oracle. But SMBs can
> definitely make money off these things, and if the community wants to keep
> this stuff going, then they’ll have to chip in on the bits they care about.
> This was the main point of my writing in the first place; to figure out
> what we can do to support it. I imagine JetBrains will be involved as well.
> They are very dependent with their current products.
>
> >
> > The message of the white paper was clear: both Apple and Microsoft own
> > their platforms and the day is not too distant when both will exclude
> Java
> > from running on their platform.  Apple already stopped shipping Java.
> >
>
> “Exclude” seems overkill considering other environments/runtimes exist on
> both; Node, Qt, Rust, Go, etc.. .Net even exists on Mac. Them not shipping
> something directly is not the same as exclude.
>
>
> > The message is clear:  migrate to .net for windows or swift for mac.
> Java
> > will only be running on Linux in the near future and that market is not
> big
> > enough to be attractive to Oracle.  There will be no more cross-platform
> > Java (or anything else) development.  Browsers will continue to be
> > available on all platforms -- if you want to play on somebody else's
> > platform you will abide by their rules.
>
> The browsers everyone is using on those platforms are not written in the
> languages you mention, so I don’t see that as the show stopper.
>
> >
> > It is a sad day but, admittedly, exclusivity is not a new idea to either
> > Apple or Microsoft.
> >
> > What is the remedy?  Make alternatives so attractive IT managers will
> > CHOOSE to leave either MS or Apple for the alternative.
>
> I don’t see that as a goal of the NB community, and it certainly doesn’t
> do anything for all the consumer devices. I do think we can help support
> desktop Java since we highly depend on it.
>
> Wade
>
> ===
>
> Wade Chandler
> e: cons...@wadechandler.com
> t: @wadechandler
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/wade-chandler
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
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>
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> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

Re: incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-beta-bin.zip

[Geertjan Wielenga]

Yes, sounds like the wrong download is being pointed to.

Gj

On Sunday, March 11, 2018, John McDonnell  wrote:

> So the website should be updated and the netcat program notified to use the
> correct download.
>
> I can send out the netcat notification in an hour or so(travelling at the
> moment) if needed but I don't have the website checked out yet to update
> that.
>
> John
>
> On 11 Mar 2018 19:52, "Jan Lahoda"  wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:20 PM, Emilian Bold <
> emilian.b...@protonmail.ch>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I can't find a document explaining what dist.apache.org is.
> > >
> >
> > My understanding is that there is a staging area there ("dev") and a
> > release area ("release"). I guess we shouldn't be pointing at the staging
> > area except for release votes (and, actually, my understanding is that we
> > should remove the stuff from the staging area when the vote ends one way
> or
> > another, although we didn't do that yet for this release). One important
> > thing is that:
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/
> > incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta/
> incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-
> > beta-bin.zip.md5
> >
> > Is effectively 9.0 beta RC1, which didn't get released. The 9.0 beta
> > release is RC3:
> > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/
> > incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta-rc3/
> >
> > So the RC1 is different from the released package. Anyway, unless someone
> > else does it, I'll remove the bits from the staging area sometime soon.
> >
> > Jan
> >
> >
> > >
> > > It seems to be the "staging area" for the binaries.
> > >
> > > My guess is that somebody fumbled a command from this huge list of
> steps
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/
> > > Apache+NetBeans+Release+README
> > >
> > > I don't believe we need to involve the security team until we dismiss a
> > > typo.
> > >
> > > --emi
> > >
> > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > >
> > > On 8 March 2018 11:57 PM, Antonio  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > José Rodriguez from the users mailing list notes that the
> > > >
> > > > "incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-beta-bin.zip" files from \[1\]
> > > >
> > > > (dist.apache.org) and \[2\] (http://www-eu.apache.org) have
> different
> > > MD5
> > > >
> > > > signatures.
> > > >
> > > > A quick review shows that the files are indeed different:
> > > >
> > > > "dist" zip file (\[1\])::
> > > >
> > > > -   File timestamps 2018 jan 10
> > > > -   No "licenses" directory
> > > > -   LICENSE file is 57kb
> > > >
> > > > "eu zip" file (\[2\]) also downloaded from the Apache mirror
> > system::
> > > >
> > > > -   File timestamps 2018 feb 02
> > > > -   "licenses" directory
> > > > -   LICENSE file is 245,1 kb
> > > >
> > > > I think the one being distributed through the mirror system is
> the
> > > >
> > > > proper one, isn't it? Also I thought that the file hosted at
> "dist"
> > > was
> > > >
> > > > automatically distributed to mirrors, wasn't it?
> > > >
> > > > I don't think we should raise a ticket against Apache security,
> > > should we?
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > Antonio
> > > >
> > > > \[1\]
> > > >
> > > > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/
> > > incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta/
> > incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-
> > > beta-bin.zip
> > > >
> > > > \[2\]
> > > >
> > > > http://www-eu.apache.org/dist/incubator/netbeans/incubating-
> > > netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta/incubating-netbeans-java-
> > > 9.0-beta-bin.zip
> > > >
> > > > On 08/03/18 20:21, John McDonnell wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Apologies for the spam, cross posting to dev.
> > > > >
> > > > > @Antonio, do you know if the link on the website for NetBeans 9.0
> > Beta
> > > > >
> > > > > is correct?  Looking at this thread, the signature doesn't match
> the
> > > > >
> > > > > RC3.0 thread we voted on.  If we have a small typo we should try to
> > > > >
> > > > > catch this early in the NetCat phase.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > >
> > > > > John
> > > > >
> > > > > On 8 March 2018 at 07:47, John McDonnell  > > > >
> > > > > mailto:mcdonnell.j...@gmail.com\> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Leo,
> > > > >
> > > > > I didn't import the keys, as I had previously done this step...
> > > > >
> > > > > But
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm looking at a different file then you:
> > > > > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/
> > > incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta/
> > incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-
> > > beta-bin.zip(you)
> > > > > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/
> > > incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta-rc3/
> > > incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-beta-bin.zip(me)
> > > > >
> > > > > @Geertjan, the vote thread you referenced earlier, we voted on
> > the
> > > > > link I used - and got a good signature, so I think that's okay.
> > > But
> > >

Re: Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

[cowwoc]

Maybe... but it's not hard to imagine a negative spin to this story.

Any way you look at it, recent events will increase the fragmentation of 
the Java platform.


Oracle just gave away Java EE and Java SE desktop. All they have left is 
Java SE server-side and, to a great degree they don't get paid for that. 
Most servers run Linux where they will never see a dime. Java on cell 
phones got killed for different political and legal reasons.


Java on the browser might pick up by way of WebAssembly, but it will not 
help Oracle financially.


JetBrains and friends are strongly diversified in web development and 
alternative languages that run on the Java platform (e.g. Kotlin). The 
latter don't benefit much from recent JDK releases. Most releases are 
Java-language-oriented and the platform is already good enough for their 
needs. If Oracle drops the ball on the platform (even indirectly by 
reducing the amount of paid employees), I can imagine these 
alt-languages jumping ship from Java to .NET without a major impact to 
JetBrains.


Something major will have to change in the next 1-2 years, otherwise we 
will experience increasing fragmentation of the Java platform. 
Open-source will actually make matters worse on this front.


So yeah, we got what we asked for (open-sourcing Java) but it wasn't 
what people had secretly hoped for (strong Java development, for free).


I hope I turn out to be wrong.

Gili

On 2018-03-12 12:20 AM, Wade Chandler wrote:

On Mar 11, 2018, at 7:38 PM, Chuck Davis  wrote:

That white paper says to me jdk11 is the end of the road for JSE at
Oracle.  Without Swing/JavaFX I can't think of a single reason to have JSE
on a computer.

Maybe, but all the more reason for the stewards they mention. One can certainly 
run servers and services as Java applications on those systems too. But, yes, 
not directly making any money for Oracle. But SMBs can definitely make money 
off these things, and if the community wants to keep this stuff going, then 
they’ll have to chip in on the bits they care about. This was the main point of 
my writing in the first place; to figure out what we can do to support it. I 
imagine JetBrains will be involved as well. They are very dependent with their 
current products.


The message of the white paper was clear: both Apple and Microsoft own
their platforms and the day is not too distant when both will exclude Java
from running on their platform.  Apple already stopped shipping Java.


“Exclude” seems overkill considering other environments/runtimes exist on both; 
Node, Qt, Rust, Go, etc.. .Net even exists on Mac. Them not shipping something 
directly is not the same as exclude.



The message is clear:  migrate to .net for windows or swift for mac.  Java
will only be running on Linux in the near future and that market is not big
enough to be attractive to Oracle.  There will be no more cross-platform
Java (or anything else) development.  Browsers will continue to be
available on all platforms -- if you want to play on somebody else's
platform you will abide by their rules.

The browsers everyone is using on those platforms are not written in the 
languages you mention, so I don’t see that as the show stopper.


It is a sad day but, admittedly, exclusivity is not a new idea to either
Apple or Microsoft.

What is the remedy?  Make alternatives so attractive IT managers will
CHOOSE to leave either MS or Apple for the alternative.

I don’t see that as a goal of the NB community, and it certainly doesn’t do 
anything for all the consumer devices. I do think we can help support desktop 
Java since we highly depend on it.

Wade

===

Wade Chandler
e: cons...@wadechandler.com
t: @wadechandler
https://www.linkedin.com/in/wade-chandler





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AW: dpi on Windows Java 9

[toni.epple]

Hi Zoran,

thanks, but unfortunately it doesn't help.

Toni

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Zoran Sevarac  
Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. März 2018 20:27
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: dpi on Windows Java 9

Hi Toni

Try if -J-Dsun.java2d.dpiaware=false in netbeans_default_options in 
/etc/netbeans.conf solves the problem This is the swing problem, and maybe we 
should consider using false as the default setting

Cheers
Zoran

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:02 PM,  wrote:

> It's a 13,3" FHD 1920 x 1080 with app scaling set to 150%. Not sure if 
> that already counts as high dpi.
>
> Toni
>
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Emilian Bold 
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. März 2018 19:49
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: dpi on Windows Java 9
>
> I don't have an answer but, just to confirm, your Windows laptop is 
> HiDPI, correct?
>
> --emi
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>
> On 11 March 2018 8:14 PM,  wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I recently switched to a windows machine. When building NB from 
> > sources
> and running it on JDK8 it looks normal, i.e. like 8.2, but when 
> running on
> JDK9 icons are pixelated and double the size.
> >
> > Any idea how to fix this? I’ll show NB JShell integration at a
> conference on Tuesday, and it would be great to have a nice looking NB 
> for that 😊.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Toni
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
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> dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
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>
>
>
>


--
Zoran Sevarac, PhD, Assistant Professor
Department of Software Engineering
University of Belgrade, Faculty of Organisational Sciences  
Neuroph  founder | Java Champion 
 | NetBeans Dream 
Team 
Homepage: http://www.zoransevarac.com


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AW: dpi on Windows Java 9

[toni.epple]

It seems Java 9 ignores this setting. If I set if -J-Dsun.java2d.dpiaware=false 
I can reproduce the effect in Java 8.

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: toni.ep...@eppleton.de  
Gesendet: Montag, 12. März 2018 07:21
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: AW: dpi on Windows Java 9

Hi Zoran,

thanks, but unfortunately it doesn't help.

Toni

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Zoran Sevarac 
Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. März 2018 20:27
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: dpi on Windows Java 9

Hi Toni

Try if -J-Dsun.java2d.dpiaware=false in netbeans_default_options in 
/etc/netbeans.conf solves the problem This is the swing problem, and maybe we 
should consider using false as the default setting

Cheers
Zoran

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:02 PM,  wrote:

> It's a 13,3" FHD 1920 x 1080 with app scaling set to 150%. Not sure if 
> that already counts as high dpi.
>
> Toni
>
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Emilian Bold 
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. März 2018 19:49
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: dpi on Windows Java 9
>
> I don't have an answer but, just to confirm, your Windows laptop is 
> HiDPI, correct?
>
> --emi
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>
> On 11 March 2018 8:14 PM,  wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I recently switched to a windows machine. When building NB from 
> > sources
> and running it on JDK8 it looks normal, i.e. like 8.2, but when 
> running on
> JDK9 icons are pixelated and double the size.
> >
> > Any idea how to fix this? I’ll show NB JShell integration at a
> conference on Tuesday, and it would be great to have a nice looking NB 
> for that 😊.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Toni
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
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> dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
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>
>
>
>


--
Zoran Sevarac, PhD, Assistant Professor
Department of Software Engineering
University of Belgrade, Faculty of Organisational Sciences  
Neuroph  founder | Java Champion 
 | NetBeans Dream 
Team 
Homepage: http://www.zoransevarac.com


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AW: dpi on Windows Java 9

[toni.epple]

I tried a couple of windows specific things like compatibility settings for 
letting Windows scale the application instead of the application itself, but it 
didn't help. It's probably related to this change in Java 9:
http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/263
 


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: toni.ep...@eppleton.de  
Gesendet: Montag, 12. März 2018 07:32
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: AW: dpi on Windows Java 9

It seems Java 9 ignores this setting. If I set if -J-Dsun.java2d.dpiaware=false 
I can reproduce the effect in Java 8.

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: toni.ep...@eppleton.de 
Gesendet: Montag, 12. März 2018 07:21
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: AW: dpi on Windows Java 9

Hi Zoran,

thanks, but unfortunately it doesn't help.

Toni

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Zoran Sevarac 
Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. März 2018 20:27
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: dpi on Windows Java 9

Hi Toni

Try if -J-Dsun.java2d.dpiaware=false in netbeans_default_options in 
/etc/netbeans.conf solves the problem This is the swing problem, and maybe we 
should consider using false as the default setting

Cheers
Zoran

On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:02 PM,  wrote:

> It's a 13,3" FHD 1920 x 1080 with app scaling set to 150%. Not sure if 
> that already counts as high dpi.
>
> Toni
>
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Emilian Bold 
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. März 2018 19:49
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: dpi on Windows Java 9
>
> I don't have an answer but, just to confirm, your Windows laptop is 
> HiDPI, correct?
>
> --emi
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>
> On 11 March 2018 8:14 PM,  wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I recently switched to a windows machine. When building NB from 
> > sources
> and running it on JDK8 it looks normal, i.e. like 8.2, but when 
> running on
> JDK9 icons are pixelated and double the size.
> >
> > Any idea how to fix this? I’ll show NB JShell integration at a
> conference on Tuesday, and it would be great to have a nice looking NB 
> for that 😊.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Toni
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
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> dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
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>
>
>
>


--
Zoran Sevarac, PhD, Assistant Professor
Department of Software Engineering
University of Belgrade, Faculty of Organisational Sciences  
Neuroph  founder | Java Champion 
 | NetBeans Dream 
Team 
Homepage: http://www.zoransevarac.com


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Re: Oracle will remove JavaFX from Oracle JDK

[Geertjan Wielenga]

My understanding is that the primary reason for JetBrains to create Kotlin
was so that the language IntelliJ IDEA would be written in would be
controled by JetBrains.

In other words, JetBrains doesn’t seem to me to be a guardian of Java, in
any way.

Gj

On Monday, March 12, 2018, cowwoc  wrote:

> Maybe... but it's not hard to imagine a negative spin to this story.
>
> Any way you look at it, recent events will increase the fragmentation of
> the Java platform.
>
> Oracle just gave away Java EE and Java SE desktop. All they have left is
> Java SE server-side and, to a great degree they don't get paid for that.
> Most servers run Linux where they will never see a dime. Java on cell
> phones got killed for different political and legal reasons.
>
> Java on the browser might pick up by way of WebAssembly, but it will not
> help Oracle financially.
>
> JetBrains and friends are strongly diversified in web development and
> alternative languages that run on the Java platform (e.g. Kotlin). The
> latter don't benefit much from recent JDK releases. Most releases are
> Java-language-oriented and the platform is already good enough for their
> needs. If Oracle drops the ball on the platform (even indirectly by
> reducing the amount of paid employees), I can imagine these alt-languages
> jumping ship from Java to .NET without a major impact to JetBrains.
>
> Something major will have to change in the next 1-2 years, otherwise we
> will experience increasing fragmentation of the Java platform. Open-source
> will actually make matters worse on this front.
>
> So yeah, we got what we asked for (open-sourcing Java) but it wasn't what
> people had secretly hoped for (strong Java development, for free).
>
> I hope I turn out to be wrong.
>
> Gili
>
> On 2018-03-12 12:20 AM, Wade Chandler wrote:
>
>> On Mar 11, 2018, at 7:38 PM, Chuck Davis  wrote:
>>
>>> That white paper says to me jdk11 is the end of the road for JSE at
>>> Oracle.  Without Swing/JavaFX I can't think of a single reason to have
>>> JSE
>>> on a computer.
>>>
>> Maybe, but all the more reason for the stewards they mention. One can
>> certainly run servers and services as Java applications on those systems
>> too. But, yes, not directly making any money for Oracle. But SMBs can
>> definitely make money off these things, and if the community wants to keep
>> this stuff going, then they’ll have to chip in on the bits they care about.
>> This was the main point of my writing in the first place; to figure out
>> what we can do to support it. I imagine JetBrains will be involved as well.
>> They are very dependent with their current products.
>>
>> The message of the white paper was clear: both Apple and Microsoft own
>>> their platforms and the day is not too distant when both will exclude
>>> Java
>>> from running on their platform.  Apple already stopped shipping Java.
>>>
>>> “Exclude” seems overkill considering other environments/runtimes exist
>> on both; Node, Qt, Rust, Go, etc.. .Net even exists on Mac. Them not
>> shipping something directly is not the same as exclude.
>>
>>
>> The message is clear:  migrate to .net for windows or swift for mac.  Java
>>> will only be running on Linux in the near future and that market is not
>>> big
>>> enough to be attractive to Oracle.  There will be no more cross-platform
>>> Java (or anything else) development.  Browsers will continue to be
>>> available on all platforms -- if you want to play on somebody else's
>>> platform you will abide by their rules.
>>>
>> The browsers everyone is using on those platforms are not written in the
>> languages you mention, so I don’t see that as the show stopper.
>>
>> It is a sad day but, admittedly, exclusivity is not a new idea to either
>>> Apple or Microsoft.
>>>
>>> What is the remedy?  Make alternatives so attractive IT managers will
>>> CHOOSE to leave either MS or Apple for the alternative.
>>>
>> I don’t see that as a goal of the NB community, and it certainly doesn’t
>> do anything for all the consumer devices. I do think we can help support
>> desktop Java since we highly depend on it.
>>
>> Wade
>>
>> ===
>>
>> Wade Chandler
>> e: cons...@wadechandler.com
>> t: @wadechandler
>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/wade-chandler
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
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>>
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: dpi on Windows Java 9

[Geertjan Wielenga]

If you’re building from sources, you could try to replace some of the icons
with ones that are correctly scaled and pixalated (and then create a pull
request for them).

Gj

On Monday, March 12, 2018,  wrote:

> I tried a couple of windows specific things like compatibility settings
> for letting Windows scale the application instead of the application
> itself, but it didn't help. It's probably related to this change in Java 9:
> http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/263
>
>
>
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: toni.ep...@eppleton.de 
> Gesendet: Montag, 12. März 2018 07:32
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: AW: dpi on Windows Java 9
>
> It seems Java 9 ignores this setting. If I set if
> -J-Dsun.java2d.dpiaware=false I can reproduce the effect in Java 8.
>
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: toni.ep...@eppleton.de 
> Gesendet: Montag, 12. März 2018 07:21
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: AW: dpi on Windows Java 9
>
> Hi Zoran,
>
> thanks, but unfortunately it doesn't help.
>
> Toni
>
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Zoran Sevarac 
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. März 2018 20:27
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: dpi on Windows Java 9
>
> Hi Toni
>
> Try if -J-Dsun.java2d.dpiaware=false in netbeans_default_options in
> /etc/netbeans.conf solves the problem This is the swing problem, and maybe
> we should consider using false as the default setting
>
> Cheers
> Zoran
>
> On Sun, Mar 11, 2018 at 8:02 PM,  wrote:
>
> > It's a 13,3" FHD 1920 x 1080 with app scaling set to 150%. Not sure if
> > that already counts as high dpi.
> >
> > Toni
> >
> > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> > Von: Emilian Bold 
> > Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. März 2018 19:49
> > An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > Betreff: Re: dpi on Windows Java 9
> >
> > I don't have an answer but, just to confirm, your Windows laptop is
> > HiDPI, correct?
> >
> > --emi
> >
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> >
> > On 11 March 2018 8:14 PM,  wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I recently switched to a windows machine. When building NB from
> > > sources
> > and running it on JDK8 it looks normal, i.e. like 8.2, but when
> > running on
> > JDK9 icons are pixelated and double the size.
> > >
> > > Any idea how to fix this? I’ll show NB JShell integration at a
> > conference on Tuesday, and it would be great to have a nice looking NB
> > for that 😊.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Toni
> >
> >
> >
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>
>
> --
> Zoran Sevarac, PhD, Assistant Professor
> Department of Software Engineering
> University of Belgrade, Faculty of Organisational Sciences <
> http://www.fon.rs> Neuroph  founder |
> Java Champion 
> | NetBeans Dream Team 
> Homepage: http://www.zoransevarac.com
>
>
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