date:20180405

Hi,

I've set up some example redirects (PR #31, [1]), see examples a-c) below.

I think that we can host the big catalog.xml.gz file in the mirror
system, and have a redirection at netbeans.apache.org pointing to the
catalog.xml.gz file in the closest mirror.

Cheers,
Antonio

a) Catalog file
The catalog file for 8.2, hosted at updates.netbeans.org.

http://netbeans.apache.org/updates/8.2/uc/final/certified/catalog.xml.gz

now points to

http://updates.netbeans.org/netbeans/updates/8.2/uc/final/certified/catalog.xml.gz

b) 9.0 sources
This url redirects to the closest Apache mirror for NB 9.0-beta sources.
Note that this redirects (on purpose) to a web page, not to the zip file
itself.

http://netbeans.apache.org/download/9.0-beta/source

now points to

https://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-beta-source.zip

c) 9.0 binaries
This url redirects to the closest Apache mirror for NB 9.0-beta binaries
Note that this redirects (on purpose) to a web page, not to the zip file
itself.

http://netbeans.apache.org/download/9.0-beta/binary

pointing to

https://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/incubator/netbeans/incubating-netbeans-java/incubating-9.0-beta/incubating-netbeans-java-9.0-beta-bin.zip

[1]

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans-website/pull/31

On 05/04/18 19:13, Jan Lahoda wrote:

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 6:57 PM, Antonio wrote:

Hi,

Some comments/ideas:

1. I think we should open an issue with INFRA so they are aware ouf our
~3TB/month load requirements. I imagine they'll prefer we use the mirror
network.

2. We can make http://netbeans.apache.org/updates/9.0/ redirect to
wherever we want (we _don't need a specific domain_ for that) by using a
simple .htaccess file (much like [1]). We can do this ourselves, today. Let
me know if you want to try it out with, say, the 9.0-beta files. I think
Infra should validate that our web server is going to hold the load, though.

That would surely be a nicer URL.

3. If we use the mirror system we'll be losing statistics. AFAIK the
mirror network does not consolidate server logs.

Do we have logs from the webserver? We don't need the statistics from the
mirrors, but statistics from the redirects would be nice.

Jan

4. Now that we're talking about releasing NBMs maybe we should start
thinking on releasing stuff to Maven central (as NetCAT required). How are
maven central artifacts generated? I don't think we have this tooling under
the Apache umbrella, have we?

Cheers,
Antonio

[1]
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans-website/blob/
master/netbeans.apache.org/src/content/.htaccess

On 05/04/18 16:15, Jan Lahoda wrote:

I believe this is about NBMs built from the standard distribution. Good
among others for dot-dot updates, where the users could just download
updated modules, not the whole distro.

I think the current overall idea (based on ideas by many other people,
like
Jarda):
-release the NBMs and the catalog as part of the convenience binaries
(this
will probably need a little tweaking)
-have a (NetBeans 9.0-specific) URL setup on the netbeans-vm, like e.g.:
http://netbeans-vm.apache.org/updates/9.0
which would do a redirect to the Apache release using:
http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.lua?action=download&filename=

this should automatically redirect to mirrors.

Not sure if we can fully test this without doing a release, but my plan
for
a near future was to change our continuous build (one of them) to produce
the NBMs and then ask to have the redirect setup - then we could do at
least some testing.

Jan

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 2:38 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

We need to nail down this one and I think the key blocker is that there
are
different ideas about what this is about:

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-330

The above is not about the Plugin Portal.

If I understand it correctly, this is about where the NBMs (which ones?
how
many? do we know?) and the related XML file (a.k.a. update center) will
be
hosted.

AFAIK, the XML file and the NBMs could be put onto our Apache NetBeans VM
just like Synergy:

http://netbeans-vm.apache.org/synergy

The key question remains, which NBMs are we talking about here,
applicable
to the 9.0 release, I think.

Thanks,

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Re: Celebrating 20 Years of NetBeans 1998 - 2018

2018-04-05 Thread Jiří Kovalský


Ken,

I am sure you will find some anecdotes here:

https://netbeans.org/birthday

I support the cake mission! What if we cook individual NetBeans 20th 
Birthday cakes ourselves (well, my lovely wife in my case) and take a 
picture of it or us with the cake. Then we could create a compilation of 
these pictures captured all over the world and promote it accordingly. 
Maybe through new Hello World built-in sample project with "See? 
NetBeans is mature!" tag line. :)


-Jirka

Dne 5.4.2018 v 18:51 Kenneth Fogel napsal(a):

I have submitted a proposal for a keynote at the September ApacheCon here in 
Montreal. Talking about Netbeans' 20 year history will be part of that. If 
anyone has any stories, anecdotes, or other information then I could use for my 
presentation please pass them on. I could also use this information to create a 
celebratory page on NetBeans' achievements in honor of its 20th birthday.

We will also need a birthday cake.

Ken


-Original Message-
From: Kai Uwe Pel [mailto:kaiuwe...@asia.com]
Sent: April 5, 2018 11:57 AM
To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Celebrating 20 Years of NetBeans 1998 - 2018

Hello,

kindly I would like to reminder all you guys, that this year we are having our excellent 
"20 Years NetBeans Birthday"... if I am not wrong.

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__netbeans.org_birthday_&d=DwIGaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=8g0-U8t40agc5PWKDlLvDhcr_tOFVGm5_EgTN0k4V24&s=XvwDxG9_JbAnZGsNBVbqa9J3o6Bh6mXHzm5mH9imsSE&e=

It would be great, if we could make an official announcement at our 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__netbeans.apache.org&d=DwIGaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=8g0-U8t40agc5PWKDlLvDhcr_tOFVGm5_EgTN0k4V24&s=WjieqzbOjB8FbLojKaFQ9GSQ1YxyOKUtE1DiIv8cs1A&e=
  as well.

It would be also great, if someone can arrange this coming event/statement into 
public.

Cheers,
Kai


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Re: How/where exactly to host the NBMs for the 9.0 release

Hi,

Quoting Daniel Gruno in the infra chat:

"considering we have millions of downloads each month from the mirror
network, I don't think 3-5 Tb/month is gonna put a big dent in it".

Anyway I think we may want to open an issue with infra stating our
download plan (once we have one) and an approximation of our bandwidth
requirements.

Cheers,
Antonio

On 05/04/18 19:38, Antonio wrote:

We have the following stats from the mirror system:

https://www.apache.org/dyn/stats/netbeans.log

Each line is a download, line format is:

First column: date (as a long timestamp)
Second column: last digit of IP.
Third column: country
Fourth column: url

I'm chatting with infra right now. They also have a console like this one:
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/uploads-eu.hipchat.com/136413/988357/tvNnIzsLADltAEW/upload.png

But it seems having stats from them requires effort. They can provide
stats on a per request basis. We should clarify exactly what we want.
The ASF is not in the "know how many users we have" business (sic).

On 05/04/18 19:13, Jan Lahoda wrote:

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 6:57 PM, Antonio wrote:

Hi,

Some comments/ideas:

1. I think we should open an issue with INFRA so they are aware ouf our
~3TB/month load requirements. I imagine they'll prefer we use the mirror
network.

me know if you want to try it out with, say, the 9.0-beta files. I think
Infra should validate that our web server is going to hold the load,
though.

That would surely be a nicer URL.

3. If we use the mirror system we'll be losing statistics. AFAIK the
mirror network does not consolidate server logs.

Do we have logs from the webserver? We don't need the statistics from the
mirrors, but statistics from the redirects would be nice.

Jan

4. Now that we're talking about releasing NBMs maybe we should start
thinking on releasing stuff to Maven central (as NetCAT required).
How are
maven central artifacts generated? I don't think we have this tooling
under

the Apache umbrella, have we?

Cheers,
Antonio

[1]
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans-website/blob/
master/netbeans.apache.org/src/content/.htaccess

On 05/04/18 16:15, Jan Lahoda wrote:

I believe this is about NBMs built from the standard distribution. Good
among others for dot-dot updates, where the users could just download
updated modules, not the whole distro.

http://netbeans-vm.apache.org/updates/9.0
which would do a redirect to the Apache release using:
http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.lua?action=download&filename=

this should automatically redirect to mirrors.

Not sure if we can fully test this without doing a release, but my plan
for
a near future was to change our continuous build (one of them) to
produce

the NBMs and then ask to have the redirect setup - then we could do at
least some testing.

Jan

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 2:38 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

We need to nail down this one and I think the key blocker is that
there

are
different ideas about what this is about:

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-330

The above is not about the Plugin Portal.

If I understand it correctly, this is about where the NBMs (which
ones?

how
many? do we know?) and the related XML file (a.k.a. update center)
will

be
hosted.

AFAIK, the XML file and the NBMs could be put onto our Apache
NetBeans VM

just like Synergy:

http://netbeans-vm.apache.org/synergy

The key question remains, which NBMs are we talking about here,
applicable
to the 9.0 release, I think.

Thanks,

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Re: How/where exactly to host the NBMs for the 9.0 release

We have the following stats from the mirror system:

https://www.apache.org/dyn/stats/netbeans.log

Each line is a download, line format is:

First column: date (as a long timestamp)
Second column: last digit of IP.
Third column: country
Fourth column: url

I'm chatting with infra right now. They also have a console like this one:
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/uploads-eu.hipchat.com/136413/988357/tvNnIzsLADltAEW/upload.png

On 05/04/18 19:13, Jan Lahoda wrote:

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 6:57 PM, Antonio wrote:

Hi,

Some comments/ideas:

1. I think we should open an issue with INFRA so they are aware ouf our
~3TB/month load requirements. I imagine they'll prefer we use the mirror
network.

That would surely be a nicer URL.

3. If we use the mirror system we'll be losing statistics. AFAIK the
mirror network does not consolidate server logs.

Do we have logs from the webserver? We don't need the statistics from the
mirrors, but statistics from the redirects would be nice.

Jan

Cheers,
Antonio

[1]
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans-website/blob/
master/netbeans.apache.org/src/content/.htaccess

On 05/04/18 16:15, Jan Lahoda wrote:

I believe this is about NBMs built from the standard distribution. Good
among others for dot-dot updates, where the users could just download
updated modules, not the whole distro.

this should automatically redirect to mirrors.

Jan

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 2:38 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

We need to nail down this one and I think the key blocker is that there
are
different ideas about what this is about:

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-330

The above is not about the Plugin Portal.

If I understand it correctly, this is about where the NBMs (which ones?
how
many? do we know?) and the related XML file (a.k.a. update center) will
be
hosted.

AFAIK, the XML file and the NBMs could be put onto our Apache NetBeans VM
just like Synergy:

http://netbeans-vm.apache.org/synergy

The key question remains, which NBMs are we talking about here,
applicable
to the 9.0 release, I think.

Thanks,

-
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Re: How/where exactly to host the NBMs for the 9.0 release

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 6:57 PM, Antonio  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Some comments/ideas:
>
> 1. I think we should open an issue with INFRA so they are aware ouf our
> ~3TB/month load requirements. I imagine they'll prefer we use the mirror
> network.
>
> 2. We can make http://netbeans.apache.org/updates/9.0/ redirect to
> wherever we want (we _don't need a specific domain_ for that) by using a
> simple .htaccess file (much like [1]). We can do this ourselves, today. Let
> me know if you want to try it out with, say, the 9.0-beta files. I think
> Infra should validate that our web server is going to hold the load, though.
>

That would surely be a nicer URL.


>
> 3. If we use the mirror system we'll be losing statistics. AFAIK the
> mirror network does not consolidate server logs.
>

Do we have logs from the webserver? We don't need the statistics from the
mirrors, but statistics from the redirects would be nice.

Jan


>
> 4. Now that we're talking about releasing NBMs maybe we should start
> thinking on releasing stuff to Maven central (as NetCAT required). How are
> maven central artifacts generated? I don't think we have this tooling under
> the Apache umbrella, have we?
>
> Cheers,
> Antonio
>
>
> [1]
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans-website/blob/
> master/netbeans.apache.org/src/content/.htaccess
>
>
>
> On 05/04/18 16:15, Jan Lahoda wrote:
>
>> I believe this is about NBMs built from the standard distribution. Good
>> among others for dot-dot updates, where the users could just download
>> updated modules, not the whole distro.
>>
>> I think the current overall idea (based on ideas by many other people,
>> like
>> Jarda):
>> -release the NBMs and the catalog as part of the convenience binaries
>> (this
>> will probably need a little tweaking)
>> -have a (NetBeans 9.0-specific) URL setup on the netbeans-vm, like e.g.:
>> http://netbeans-vm.apache.org/updates/9.0
>> which would do a redirect to the Apache release using:
>> http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.lua?action=download&filename=
>>
>> this should automatically redirect to mirrors.
>>
>> Not sure if we can fully test this without doing a release, but my plan
>> for
>> a near future was to change our continuous build (one of them) to produce
>> the NBMs and then ask to have the redirect setup - then we could do at
>> least some testing.
>>
>> Jan
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 2:38 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
>> geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> We need to nail down this one and I think the key blocker is that there
>>> are
>>> different ideas about what this is about:
>>>
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-330
>>>
>>> The above is not about the Plugin Portal.
>>>
>>> If I understand it correctly, this is about where the NBMs (which ones?
>>> how
>>> many? do we know?) and the related XML file (a.k.a. update center) will
>>> be
>>> hosted.
>>>
>>> AFAIK, the XML file and the NBMs could be put onto our Apache NetBeans VM
>>> just like Synergy:
>>>
>>> http://netbeans-vm.apache.org/synergy
>>>
>>> The key question remains, which NBMs are we talking about here,
>>> applicable
>>> to the 9.0 release, I think.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Gj
>>>
>>>
>>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

Re: How/where exactly to host the NBMs for the 9.0 release

On Thu, 5 Apr 2018 at 17:57 Antonio  wrote:

> 2. We can make http://netbeans.apache.org/updates/9.0/ redirect to
> wherever we want (we _don't need a specific domain_ for that) by using a
> simple .htaccess file (much like [1]). We can do this ourselves, today.
>

My suggestion was only for the catalog, not the actual files, so only in
the ~100's GB level as Jan said.  We should still talk with infra about
it.  I just suspect it more likely that this can be adequately handled on
the web hosting than the VM, given this is static content.

The docs for website hosting suggest requesting server config changes from
infra rather than using .htaccess for performance reasons - the amount of
hits this is likely to get probably make that more important!?

Best wishes,

Neil

-- 
Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
www.neilcsmith.net

Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org

Re: How/where exactly to host the NBMs for the 9.0 release

Hi,

Some comments/ideas:

1. I think we should open an issue with INFRA so they are aware ouf our
~3TB/month load requirements. I imagine they'll prefer we use the mirror
network.

2. We can make http://netbeans.apache.org/updates/9.0/ redirect to
wherever we want (we _don't need a specific domain_ for that) by using a
simple .htaccess file (much like [1]). We can do this ourselves, today.
Let me know if you want to try it out with, say, the 9.0-beta files. I
think Infra should validate that our web server is going to hold the
load, though.

3. If we use the mirror system we'll be losing statistics. AFAIK the
mirror network does not consolidate server logs.

4. Now that we're talking about releasing NBMs maybe we should start
thinking on releasing stuff to Maven central (as NetCAT required). How
are maven central artifacts generated? I don't think we have this
tooling under the Apache umbrella, have we?

Cheers,
Antonio

[1]
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans-website/blob/master/netbeans.apache.org/src/content/.htaccess

On 05/04/18 16:15, Jan Lahoda wrote:

I believe this is about NBMs built from the standard distribution. Good
among others for dot-dot updates, where the users could just download
updated modules, not the whole distro.

I think the current overall idea (based on ideas by many other people, like
Jarda):
-release the NBMs and the catalog as part of the convenience binaries (this
will probably need a little tweaking)
-have a (NetBeans 9.0-specific) URL setup on the netbeans-vm, like e.g.:
http://netbeans-vm.apache.org/updates/9.0
which would do a redirect to the Apache release using:
http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.lua?action=download&filename=

this should automatically redirect to mirrors.

Not sure if we can fully test this without doing a release, but my plan for
a near future was to change our continuous build (one of them) to produce
the NBMs and then ask to have the redirect setup - then we could do at
least some testing.

Jan

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 2:38 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

We need to nail down this one and I think the key blocker is that there are
different ideas about what this is about:

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-330

The above is not about the Plugin Portal.

If I understand it correctly, this is about where the NBMs (which ones? how
many? do we know?) and the related XML file (a.k.a. update center) will be
hosted.

AFAIK, the XML file and the NBMs could be put onto our Apache NetBeans VM
just like Synergy:

http://netbeans-vm.apache.org/synergy

The key question remains, which NBMs are we talking about here, applicable
to the 9.0 release, I think.

Thanks,

-
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RE: Celebrating 20 Years of NetBeans 1998 - 2018

2018-04-05 Thread Kenneth Fogel

I have submitted a proposal for a keynote at the September ApacheCon here in 
Montreal. Talking about Netbeans' 20 year history will be part of that. If 
anyone has any stories, anecdotes, or other information then I could use for my 
presentation please pass them on. I could also use this information to create a 
celebratory page on NetBeans' achievements in honor of its 20th birthday.

We will also need a birthday cake.

Ken


-Original Message-
From: Kai Uwe Pel [mailto:kaiuwe...@asia.com] 
Sent: April 5, 2018 11:57 AM
To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Celebrating 20 Years of NetBeans 1998 - 2018

Hello,

kindly I would like to reminder all you guys, that this year we are having our 
excellent "20 Years NetBeans Birthday"... if I am not wrong.

https://netbeans.org/birthday/

It would be great, if we could make an official announcement at our 
http://netbeans.apache.org  as well.

It would be also great, if someone can arrange this coming event/statement into 
public.

Cheers,
Kai


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Re: How/where exactly to host the NBMs for the 9.0 release

2018-04-05 Thread Jiří Kovalský


Dne 5.4.2018 v 16:02 Geertjan Wielenga napsal(a):


I am afraid that VM hosting Synergy won't survive such a load (~3TB/month)
once we release 9.0 to public.


Do we know this for sure, have we asked infra.chat and have they said no to
this?
Yes. I said 5TB/month though which is our best estimate. See my message 
from 3/8. With less modules in 9.0 it could be 3TB.


-Jirka

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Celebrating 20 Years of NetBeans 1998 - 2018

2018-04-05 Thread Kai Uwe Pel


Hello,

kindly I would like to reminder all you guys, that this year we are 
having our excellent "20 Years NetBeans Birthday"... if I am not wrong.


https://netbeans.org/birthday/

It would be great, if we could make an official announcement at our 
http://netbeans.apache.org  as well.


It would be also great, if someone can arrange this coming 
event/statement into public.


Cheers,
Kai


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Re: How/where exactly to host the NBMs for the 9.0 release

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 4:57 PM, Neil C Smith  wrote:

> On Thu, 5 Apr 2018 at 15:15 Jan Lahoda  wrote:
>
> > -release the NBMs and the catalog as part of the convenience binaries
> (this
> > will probably need a little tweaking)
> > -have a (NetBeans 9.0-specific) URL setup on the netbeans-vm, like e.g.:
> > http://netbeans-vm.apache.org/updates/9.0
> > which would do a redirect to the Apache release using:
> > http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.lua?action=download&filename=
> >
>
> Why do we need to put this on the VM at all then?  Couldn't we just
> generate the catalog.xml with those links already?  And then host the
> catalog with the rest of the website?
>

We could try, I guess, if the website can handle the traffic (we may be
talking about 100s of GB per month just for the catalog).

Out of curiosity, are there any log from the website?

Jan


> Whichever option we end up with, https on those links would be good!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
> --
> Neil C Smith
> Artist & Technologist
> www.neilcsmith.net
>
> Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
>

Re: How/where exactly to host the NBMs for the 9.0 release

On Thu, 5 Apr 2018 at 15:15 Jan Lahoda  wrote:

> -release the NBMs and the catalog as part of the convenience binaries (this
> will probably need a little tweaking)
> -have a (NetBeans 9.0-specific) URL setup on the netbeans-vm, like e.g.:
> http://netbeans-vm.apache.org/updates/9.0
> which would do a redirect to the Apache release using:
> http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.lua?action=download&filename=
>

Why do we need to put this on the VM at all then?  Couldn't we just
generate the catalog.xml with those links already?  And then host the
catalog with the rest of the website?

Whichever option we end up with, https on those links would be good!

Best wishes,

Neil
-- 
Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
www.neilcsmith.net

Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org

Re: How/where exactly to host the NBMs for the 9.0 release

I forgot: the advantage of the redirect in netbeans-vm is that when 9.0 is
superseded with a later version, we should delete 9.0 from
dist/mirrors.Tthe release would then be available through archive. And we
could simply change the redirect from mirrors to archive. The disadvantage
is that we will need to keep the URL hardcoded in the IDE working.

Jan

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Yes, that's excellent and a clear way forward.
>
> I suppose that prior to the final release, we could do an rc release, which
> would include this functionality that you're describing here so that we can
> try it out prior to the release.
>
> Gj
>
> On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 4:15 PM, Jan Lahoda  wrote:
>
> > I believe this is about NBMs built from the standard distribution. Good
> > among others for dot-dot updates, where the users could just download
> > updated modules, not the whole distro.
> >
> > I think the current overall idea (based on ideas by many other people,
> like
> > Jarda):
> > -release the NBMs and the catalog as part of the convenience binaries
> (this
> > will probably need a little tweaking)
> > -have a (NetBeans 9.0-specific) URL setup on the netbeans-vm, like e.g.:
> > http://netbeans-vm.apache.org/updates/9.0
> > which would do a redirect to the Apache release using:
> > http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.lua?action=download&filename=
> >
> > this should automatically redirect to mirrors.
> >
> > Not sure if we can fully test this without doing a release, but my plan
> for
> > a near future was to change our continuous build (one of them) to produce
> > the NBMs and then ask to have the redirect setup - then we could do at
> > least some testing.
> >
> > Jan
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 2:38 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
> > geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > We need to nail down this one and I think the key blocker is that there
> > are
> > > different ideas about what this is about:
> > >
> > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-330
> > >
> > > The above is not about the Plugin Portal.
> > >
> > > If I understand it correctly, this is about where the NBMs (which ones?
> > how
> > > many? do we know?) and the related XML file (a.k.a. update center) will
> > be
> > > hosted.
> > >
> > > AFAIK, the XML file and the NBMs could be put onto our Apache NetBeans
> VM
> > > just like Synergy:
> > >
> > > http://netbeans-vm.apache.org/synergy
> > >
> > > The key question remains, which NBMs are we talking about here,
> > applicable
> > > to the 9.0 release, I think.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Gj
> > >
> >
>

Re: How/where exactly to host the NBMs for the 9.0 release

2018-04-05 Thread Geertjan Wielenga

Yes, that's excellent and a clear way forward.

I suppose that prior to the final release, we could do an rc release, which
would include this functionality that you're describing here so that we can
try it out prior to the release.

Gj

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 4:15 PM, Jan Lahoda  wrote:

> I believe this is about NBMs built from the standard distribution. Good
> among others for dot-dot updates, where the users could just download
> updated modules, not the whole distro.
>
> I think the current overall idea (based on ideas by many other people, like
> Jarda):
> -release the NBMs and the catalog as part of the convenience binaries (this
> will probably need a little tweaking)
> -have a (NetBeans 9.0-specific) URL setup on the netbeans-vm, like e.g.:
> http://netbeans-vm.apache.org/updates/9.0
> which would do a redirect to the Apache release using:
> http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.lua?action=download&filename=
>
> this should automatically redirect to mirrors.
>
> Not sure if we can fully test this without doing a release, but my plan for
> a near future was to change our continuous build (one of them) to produce
> the NBMs and then ask to have the redirect setup - then we could do at
> least some testing.
>
> Jan
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 2:38 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > We need to nail down this one and I think the key blocker is that there
> are
> > different ideas about what this is about:
> >
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-330
> >
> > The above is not about the Plugin Portal.
> >
> > If I understand it correctly, this is about where the NBMs (which ones?
> how
> > many? do we know?) and the related XML file (a.k.a. update center) will
> be
> > hosted.
> >
> > AFAIK, the XML file and the NBMs could be put onto our Apache NetBeans VM
> > just like Synergy:
> >
> > http://netbeans-vm.apache.org/synergy
> >
> > The key question remains, which NBMs are we talking about here,
> applicable
> > to the 9.0 release, I think.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Gj
> >
>

Re: How/where exactly to host the NBMs for the 9.0 release

I believe this is about NBMs built from the standard distribution. Good
among others for dot-dot updates, where the users could just download
updated modules, not the whole distro.

I think the current overall idea (based on ideas by many other people, like
Jarda):
-release the NBMs and the catalog as part of the convenience binaries (this
will probably need a little tweaking)
-have a (NetBeans 9.0-specific) URL setup on the netbeans-vm, like e.g.:
http://netbeans-vm.apache.org/updates/9.0
which would do a redirect to the Apache release using:
http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.lua?action=download&filename=

this should automatically redirect to mirrors.

Not sure if we can fully test this without doing a release, but my plan for
a near future was to change our continuous build (one of them) to produce
the NBMs and then ask to have the redirect setup - then we could do at
least some testing.

Jan


On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 2:38 PM, Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> We need to nail down this one and I think the key blocker is that there are
> different ideas about what this is about:
>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-330
>
> The above is not about the Plugin Portal.
>
> If I understand it correctly, this is about where the NBMs (which ones? how
> many? do we know?) and the related XML file (a.k.a. update center) will be
> hosted.
>
> AFAIK, the XML file and the NBMs could be put onto our Apache NetBeans VM
> just like Synergy:
>
> http://netbeans-vm.apache.org/synergy
>
> The key question remains, which NBMs are we talking about here, applicable
> to the 9.0 release, I think.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gj
>

Re: How/where exactly to host the NBMs for the 9.0 release

2018-04-05 Thread Geertjan Wielenga

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 2:50 PM, Jiří Kovalský 
wrote:

> I am afraid that VM hosting Synergy won't survive such a load (~3TB/month)
> once we release 9.0 to public.
>


Do we know this for sure, have we asked infra.chat and have they said no to
this?

Thanks,

Gj





>
> -Jirka
>
> Dne 5.4.2018 v 14:38 Geertjan Wielenga napsal(a):
>
> Hi all,
>>
>> We need to nail down this one and I think the key blocker is that there
>> are
>> different ideas about what this is about:
>>
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__issues.
>> apache.org_jira_browse_NETBEANS-2D330&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCg
>> aWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2
>> xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=HkiKbmb7GeafxH447aOYZCa-BLZDc-ny5MEKc3
>> uwowA&s=S5RtUWcQM-rPz2Hrjg-3o2iB9HQEuOdT1E2IZNSouVA&e=
>>
>> The above is not about the Plugin Portal.
>>
>> If I understand it correctly, this is about where the NBMs (which ones?
>> how
>> many? do we know?) and the related XML file (a.k.a. update center) will be
>> hosted.
>>
>> AFAIK, the XML file and the NBMs could be put onto our Apache NetBeans VM
>> just like Synergy:
>>
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__netbeans
>> -2Dvm.apache.org_synergy&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8P
>> Zh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU
>> 133NrdP4&m=HkiKbmb7GeafxH447aOYZCa-BLZDc-ny5MEKc3uwowA&s=8qd
>> 68zoMwDb5S72suJJWvkF5QMPr7gbwqNpb-Na1VMI&e=
>>
>> The key question remains, which NBMs are we talking about here, applicable
>> to the 9.0 release, I think.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Gj
>>
>>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

Re: How/where exactly to host the NBMs for the 9.0 release

2018-04-05 Thread Enrico Olivelli

Do releases of NBM files follow usual Apache release flow?
If they are artifacts 'released' by this Apache Project they could go to
dist.apache.org and to Apache mirrors.

Just my two cents
Enrico

Il gio 5 apr 2018, 14:50 Jiří Kovalský  ha
scritto:

> I am afraid that VM hosting Synergy won't survive such a load
> (~3TB/month) once we release 9.0 to public.
>
> -Jirka
>
> Dne 5.4.2018 v 14:38 Geertjan Wielenga napsal(a):
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > We need to nail down this one and I think the key blocker is that there
> are
> > different ideas about what this is about:
> >
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__issues.apache.org_jira_browse_NETBEANS-2D330&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=HkiKbmb7GeafxH447aOYZCa-BLZDc-ny5MEKc3uwowA&s=S5RtUWcQM-rPz2Hrjg-3o2iB9HQEuOdT1E2IZNSouVA&e=
> >
> > The above is not about the Plugin Portal.
> >
> > If I understand it correctly, this is about where the NBMs (which ones?
> how
> > many? do we know?) and the related XML file (a.k.a. update center) will
> be
> > hosted.
> >
> > AFAIK, the XML file and the NBMs could be put onto our Apache NetBeans VM
> > just like Synergy:
> >
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__netbeans-2Dvm.apache.org_synergy&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=HkiKbmb7GeafxH447aOYZCa-BLZDc-ny5MEKc3uwowA&s=8qd68zoMwDb5S72suJJWvkF5QMPr7gbwqNpb-Na1VMI&e=
> >
> > The key question remains, which NBMs are we talking about here,
> applicable
> > to the 9.0 release, I think.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Gj
> >
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
> --


-- Enrico Olivelli

Re: How/where exactly to host the NBMs for the 9.0 release

2018-04-05 Thread Jiří Kovalský

I am afraid that VM hosting Synergy won't survive such a load 
(~3TB/month) once we release 9.0 to public.


-Jirka

Dne 5.4.2018 v 14:38 Geertjan Wielenga napsal(a):


Hi all,

We need to nail down this one and I think the key blocker is that there are
different ideas about what this is about:

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__issues.apache.org_jira_browse_NETBEANS-2D330&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=HkiKbmb7GeafxH447aOYZCa-BLZDc-ny5MEKc3uwowA&s=S5RtUWcQM-rPz2Hrjg-3o2iB9HQEuOdT1E2IZNSouVA&e=

The above is not about the Plugin Portal.

If I understand it correctly, this is about where the NBMs (which ones? how
many? do we know?) and the related XML file (a.k.a. update center) will be
hosted.

AFAIK, the XML file and the NBMs could be put onto our Apache NetBeans VM
just like Synergy:

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__netbeans-2Dvm.apache.org_synergy&d=DwIBaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=HkiKbmb7GeafxH447aOYZCa-BLZDc-ny5MEKc3uwowA&s=8qd68zoMwDb5S72suJJWvkF5QMPr7gbwqNpb-Na1VMI&e=

The key question remains, which NBMs are we talking about here, applicable
to the 9.0 release, I think.

Thanks,

Gj



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AW: How/where exactly to host the NBMs for the 9.0 release

2018-04-05 Thread Christian Lenz

IMHO, it could be possible to host the NBM on the github mirror inside Releases 
and the Apache.netbeans.org page, where we can find the Downloads, can Point to 
it. Only my opinion.


Cheers

Chris

Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. April 2018 14:38
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: How/where exactly to host the NBMs for the 9.0 release

Hi all,

We need to nail down this one and I think the key blocker is that there are
different ideas about what this is about:

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-330

The above is not about the Plugin Portal.

If I understand it correctly, this is about where the NBMs (which ones? how
many? do we know?) and the related XML file (a.k.a. update center) will be
hosted.

AFAIK, the XML file and the NBMs could be put onto our Apache NetBeans VM
just like Synergy:

http://netbeans-vm.apache.org/synergy

The key question remains, which NBMs are we talking about here, applicable
to the 9.0 release, I think.

Thanks,

Gj

How/where exactly to host the NBMs for the 9.0 release

2018-04-05 Thread Geertjan Wielenga

Hi all,

We need to nail down this one and I think the key blocker is that there are
different ideas about what this is about:

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-330

The above is not about the Plugin Portal.

If I understand it correctly, this is about where the NBMs (which ones? how
many? do we know?) and the related XML file (a.k.a. update center) will be
hosted.

AFAIK, the XML file and the NBMs could be put onto our Apache NetBeans VM
just like Synergy:

http://netbeans-vm.apache.org/synergy

The key question remains, which NBMs are we talking about here, applicable
to the 9.0 release, I think.

Thanks,

Gj

Re: Usability study was: Think Java, not Electron! was: Apache HTML/Java UI

On Thu, 5 Apr 2018 at 11:55  wrote:

> on platforms without javafx the project needs to be created using the
> maven -> Create from archetype wizard, as the regular wizard won't run
> here.
>

So, is the HTML-based wizard hidden or does it redirect somewhere else?
Sorry if I'm being clueless here.  The question I guess I'm really asking
is whether the user can end up with a UI option that breaks when JavaFX is
not available?

Regarding the presenters: I'm not planning to donate those at the moment.
>

Fair enough.  Time to start investigating replicating the server / base
presenters here then.

Best wishes,

Neil
-- 
Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
www.neilcsmith.net

Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org

AW: Usability study was: Think Java, not Electron! was: Apache HTML/Java UI

2018-04-05 Thread toni.epple

Hi Neil,

on platforms without javafx the project needs to be created using the maven -> 
Create from archetype wizard, as the regular wizard won't run here. We already 
discussed, that we'll need to replace that presenter with jcef/chromium or 
something similar, especially with the removal of JFX scheduled for jdk 11.

The project itself can run with the webkit/browser presenters on platforms.

Regarding the presenters: I'm not planning to donate those at the moment.

--Toni 

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Neil C Smith  
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 5. April 2018 11:41
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Usability study was: Think Java, not Electron! was: Apache 
HTML/Java UI

Hi Toni,

On Thu, 5 Apr 2018 at 09:59  wrote:

> Working on solving these issues. I've created a PR to change the 
> category and description as proposed here. I'm also trying to improve 
> the "first contact" when somebody tries the wizard out of curiosity 
> without knowing about the API. When the freshly created application is 
> running  it now contains a footer with links to documentation, blogs, 
> etc. . This latter change can be tried out immediately, as it only 
> required updates to the archetypes hosted on Maven Central.
>
>
Out of interest (I didn't get a reply on the PR) how well does the wizard and 
project function on a system without access to JavaFX?

Also out of interest, do you have any plans to donate the server-based 
displayer?  Would love to look at backup alternatives to open the project in 
the user's browser and/or extend the server implementations with platform and 
nanohttpd support.  Something I believe we can't do with Apache code at the 
moment?

Quite understand if that's not on your agenda, but don't want to reinvent the 
wheel for the sake of it! :-)

Best wishes,

Neil
--
Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
www.neilcsmith.net

Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org

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Re: Usability study was: Think Java, not Electron! was: Apache HTML/Java UI