AW: Results from Apache NetBeans 11.0 Community Acceptance survey

[Christian Lenz]

Hey Jiri,

back in the days for NetBeans < 9, the survey had some plain text fields where 
the users could add some stuff, like what features they want or some General 
comments. Can you remember? What happened with them? Why where there removed? I 
mean not the fields on each question, I mean a seperate site with some fields 
as you can find it here: 
https://qa.netbeans.org/processes/cat/82/ca_results.html at the end you can see 
general comments and suggested features.


Cheers

Chris

Von: Jiří Kovalský
Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. April 2019 14:07
An: NetCAT team; d...@netbeans.apache.org; us...@netbeans.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Results from Apache NetBeans 11.0 Community Acceptance survey

Hi again,

I don't know how about you but I like movies with good endings. Or 
at least movies without vague endings. And that's exactly why I have 
finally processed results from the Community Acceptance survey and 
published these [1]. Better late than never, right? :)

[1] 
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Results+from+Apache+NetBeans+IDE+11.0+Community+Acceptance+survey

Although pie charts show that 11.0 should be better than 10.0, we 
cannot really compare the data given the gap between turnouts (37 vs. 
111 survey respondents). In spite of that thanks to everyone who 
participated in the poll!

Happy development with Apache NetBeans 11.0 IDE!

Best regards,
-Jirka

Dne 26. 03. 19 v 15:39 Jiří Kovalský napsal(a):

> Hello NetBeans community,
> 
>     thanks to all 27 respondents who expressed their opinion on the Vote 
> Candidate 4 of Apache NetBeans IDE 11.0 to date. If you didn't have a 
> chance to look at the VC4 build or simply forgot to cast your vote, 
> don't give up and do it [1] as soon as possible.
> 
> [1] https://goo.gl/forms/5bNWPBtOJYD2yGMX2
> 
>     Firstly, we realize that due to Plugin Portal which was down for 
> some time last week many people couldn't download nb-javac and js-parser 
> plugins which were essential for any serious evaluation. And secondly, 
> we want the results to be representative so we rather hope for ~100 
> responses.
> 
> Are we naive :) or do we get some more feedback?
> 
> BTW, so far the numbers are very good with just one potentially serious 
> issue identified in refactoring [2] which we are looking into as we speak.
> 
> [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-2240
> 
> Thanks to anyone who joins the team of 27 brave voters!
> 
> Best regards,
> -Jirka

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AW: Very Slow Operations with NB 11

[Christian Lenz]

Hey all and Tim,

please have in mind, if you open a simple PHP project or a small project (< 100 
files) or mid size Project or big project in IntelliJ or Eclipse (only one 
project), we don’t have such a Performance issue. So it seems that they are 
make it different. So yes maybe it is about the not signed executable with no 
installer (For windows). IntelliJ and Eclipse are both JVM applications too.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Tim Boudreau
Gesendet: Samstag, 13. April 2019 22:26
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Very Slow Operations with NB 11

If we're talking about Windows, there is an issue I went a few rounds with
engineers at Microsoft with over 15 years ago:

What really happens on Windows when you stat a file (say, with
File.isDirectory, checking time stamp, etc.), the calling thread is put to
sleep, the job is put on a queue, the kernel answers the question and the
thread is woken up). If I recall correctly, we were simply flooding the OS
with such calls.

At the time, we did some instrumenting of the JDK and collected the major
culprits, and where possible, eliminated those calls, or at least ensured
they weren't done repeatedly for the same file. There was nothing beyond
that that could be done from the JVM side.

-Tim

On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 5:38 PM Laszlo Kishalmi 
wrote:

> Thank you for the data!
>
> I'm going to create a JIRA Issue and attach these there.
>
> At the first sight there is something really bad on the Windows
> Filesystem side.
>
>  From the 10 second completion time at lead 5.5 seconds were spent in a
> Java.ioFile.list() and java.io.File.isDirectory() call. Both have native
> implementations. Usually at this point we suspecting some AntiVirus
> software/ Windows Defender.
>
> My theory on this: As NetBeans is not (yet) installed with a signed
> windows installer, the Security software(s) are handling it more
> suspicious, checking every disk activity. As NetBeans uses really lot of
> disk io, this is bogging down its performacne on Windows (and that's why
> we are not seeing it on Linux/ Mac). As 8.2 has a signed installer, it
> might get better scores at the sec software and that results better IO.
> This is just a theory.
>
> On 4/12/19 12:41 PM, Scott Palmer wrote:
> > Here is snapshot data for two events. One auto-complete (ctrl-Space)
> > taking 10s, the other getting a hint (alt-Enter) taking 7s.  Yes it
> > does look like something is blocked. I’ve copied you and Jan directly
> > in case the list strips attachements.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Apr 12, 2019, at 3:34 PM, Kodewerk  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Scott,
> >>
> >> Please export Snapshot data. As I mentioned before, this is likely a
> >> stalled thread and as such an execution profiler is likely to not
> >> report it. The most useful view IME are thread dumps at about 1
> >> second intervals.
> >>
> >> Kind regards,
> >> Kirk
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Apr 12, 2019, at 12:23 PM, Scott Palmer  >>> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I just experienced a 10s delay before the auto-complete popup
> >>> appeared (did see the “Please wait…” though).  That was the second
> >>> press of auto-complete at the same spot.  The first attempt took 8
> >>> seconds.  I triggered the profiling for each, but I suspect the
> >>> first attempt may be tainted because the Gradle project was stuck
> >>> loading - there was a dependency that it couldn’t get.  I commented
> >>> out that dependency (didn’t need it) so project was loaded fully and
> >>> tried again.  This is with a very tiny toy project.  I single-class
> >>> microbenchmark using the JMH gradle plugin.
> >>>
> >>> There are options to export “Sanpshot Data”, “Forward Calls”,
> >>> “Hotspots” … which of these do you want?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Scott
> >>>
>  On Apr 12, 2019, at 12:06 PM, Jan Lahoda   > wrote:
> 
>  Hi Scott,
> 
>  In this case, it might be useful/helpful if we had the self
>  profiler snapshots. Possibly for one of the features, e.g. code
>  completion:
> 
>  http://wiki.netbeans.org/FaqProfileMeNow<
> http://wiki.netbeans.org/FaqProfileMeNow>
> 
>  (Refactoring/findusages is currently much faster with nb-javac than
>  without it, but the difference should be much smaller for code
>  completion, etc.)
> 
>  Jan
> 
>  12. dubna 2019 16:26:29 SELČ, Scott Palmer   > napsal:
>  What is the best course of action for reporting slowness?  I can’t
>  share my project.
>  I’m not certain how to give step-by-step instructions when the
>  problem is basically one step in most cases.  E.g. invoke
>  auto-complete - nothing happens for several seconds.  Invoke rename
>  - dialog doesn’t appear for several seconds.  Find usages -
>  extremely slow > 5 second delay on a private member of a class less
>  than 100 lines.
> 
>  In general it seems NB 11 is noticeably 

AW: Editor tab control UI replacement

[Christian Lenz]

Looks nice  but please make it optional if we will build in into NetBeans. Not 
everyone wants to have it. Otherwise, if it is a Plugin, that will be also 
fine. My 2 Cents.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Tim Boudreau
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. April 2019 21:56
An: d...@netbeans.apache.org
Betreff: Editor tab control UI replacement

Back in 2003/4, I wrote the tab control for the NetBeans 3.6 window system,
which is still in use - the thing JTabbedPane should have been if it had
been written with the needs of applications like NetBeans in mind (i.e.
model driven, not using the AWT hierarchy as its model, capable of complex
transforms on its contents with minimal redraws, etc.).

Some time after that, NetBeans' Visual Library came into being, which makes
easy a lot of things that are otherwise very hard in Swing - animation,
glows around components that extend beyond the bounds of the component,
smooth scrolling and more.  So I've had it in my head for years that
someone ought to write a replacement UI delegate for the editor tabs which
uses it.  Needing to take a break from another project, the other day I
finally wrote that.  It should work on any Swing look and feel (and I
tested it on a bunch) - it derives its colors from those of the look and
feel.  And all of the gradient painting logic is carefully memory managed
using cached BufferedImages (10-40x faster than caching GradientPaint in my
tests and far more consistent in its performance).

What it does differently are mainly animation and bling, and highlighting
for the selected tab that sits outside the tab.  It does have really lovely
built-in tab-dragging support, but since drag support in the window system
is implemented via an AWTEventListener in core.windows...I can disable that
with a not-too-evil hack (have the UI delegate implement Tabbed.Adapter and
then return null for its Tabbed instance), but then model changes aren't
known to the window system, so it "corrects" them, undoing the drag on the
next move.  But the existing tab dragging support (with its ugly polygons)
works fine, so that's disabled by default.

So, two things:
1.  If you'd like a little more (gratuitous?) bling in your editor tabs,
please test it (download link below)
2.  I'd be happy to contribute it to NetBeans if there's interest - it's
already licensed compatibly

Screen shot (running on my own Dark Look and Feel plugin):
https://timboudreau.com/files/screen/04-10-2019_15-48-36.png

Binary download compatible w/ JDK 8 and up, NetBeans 8.2 and up:
https://timboudreau.com/files/visual-library-tabbedcontrol-0.3.1.nbm

Github repo w/ source code:
https://github.com/timboudreau/visual-library-tabcontrol

Feedback appreciated.

Thanks,

Tim

-- 
http://timboudreau.com

AW: NetBeans GUI icons, who drew them?

[Christian Lenz]

If you have a public repo or a public package with all Icons, you will not have 
that much duplicates or you have a good chance to find duplicate Icons easily. 
Now we can have mulitple times the same Icon for different stuff or different 
Icons for the same action. The magnify can look different in different packages 
but it should be the same if it is about searching. So you can Change one icon 
for search and each package, which uses this Icon changes. You don’t need to 
find out where to change exact that Icon which is a mess now.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Tim Boudreau
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. April 2019 23:05
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: NetBeans GUI icons, who drew them?

== Precompiling

>
> As Tim points out we don't want to waste CPU/GPU time rendering
> gradients for icons at runtime.
>
> We could define some "standard" sizes for icons and precompile them to
> these sizes. Very much like native mobile apps do for Android an iOS. In
> iOS, for example, they have @1x, @2x, @3x suffixes for different icons
> sizes.
>
> That, of course will require a project/repository of its own.
>

I don't think so, regarding a repo.  Either:
 - Compile them to images of several sizes when building the module jar
(from reading the comments in VectorIcon, it sounds like particularly on
Windows hidpi, this can vary wildly, so I'm not sure this is a perfect
solution), or
 - Compile them to a Java class that adds up to "painting instructions"
(much faster load time and no dep on batik) - it's not that hard to write a
Graphics2D implementation that outputs Java code for everything done to it,
so you could load an SVG image into Batik, and have it paint into that and
generate a class from the result); on first load, load it, paint it into a
BufferedImage and save that to the IDE's cache directory, subdirectory by
screen resolution, with the SHA-1 hash of the original SVG as the name.
   - Or, let the installer do this at the end of install - it actually
knows the screen resolution likely to be needed, so that is the perfect
time to do it, and let the IDE do the above for anything missing

I don't think a repository just for icons solves much of anything, and
probably creates some new problems.  If you have a checkout of the IDE,
`find . -name *.svg` does a fine job for locating everying; disconnect them
from the code that uses them, and you're guaranteed to wind up with a pile
of old icons used by nothing that nobody is sure if are unused or not.

-Tim

>
>
> == Standardizing
>
> If we're to precompile icons we may also want to standardize them
> somehow. We could separate icons by cluster (in the repository above),
> and create a cluster-specific module responsible for returning icons (of
> appropriate size depending on DPI) for all modules in that cluster.
>
> The objective being making all "folder" icons look similar. We now have
> blue folders and yellow folders all around.
>
> == Generating SVG from PNG
>
> See Tim's response in another thread [1]. I think Emilian set up a
> website in 2017 to do this [2].
>
> I don't think automatic conversion is worth the effort: we'll end up
> having to fine-tune the results by hand, as Emilian tried to do back in
> 2017.
>
> Also note that Adobe Illustrator seems to have a way to do this:
>
> https://www.lifewire.com/use-image-trace-in-adobe-illustrator-cc-2017-4125254
>
> Cheers,
> Antonio
>
> [1]
>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/netbeans-dev/201904.mbox/%3cCA+qecRNnE=L49v5t46q_LVc=rpTqJD3U7zt4-0DAroG=x6h...@mail.gmail.com%3e
>
> [2]
> https://jaxenter.com/netbeans/netbeans-retina
>
> El 06/04/2019 a las 19:50, Tim Boudreau escribió:
> > I did most of the icons in 1999 (a few of them still exist in core as
> tree
> > icons for nodes that are not typically shown anymore); in 2000 they were
> > taken over by Sun's Human Interface Engineering team, and everything was
> > converted to the (awful) "flush 3d" metal look and feel look. Circa 2004
> we
> > got out from under the tyrrany of metal look and feel, and they were
> > redesigned again by a guy whose name I can't remember, but could probably
> > dig up - that redesign established the shapes still in use for things
> like
> > classes, fields and methods. Since then there was one reworking of the
> > icons that made them more cartoonish (I remember Wade calling it
> "NetBeans
> > for babies").
> >
> > I think in the long run, switching to vector icons is smart. That said, I
> > would not run with SVG without precompiling it into code that drives a
> > Graphics2D and either renders and caches images, or deals with
> performance
> > and memory allocation issues around GradientPaint and friends in the JDK
> > (both allocate large rasters on every paint, and vertical and horizontal
> > and radial gradients can be cached and reused instead - AND the pixel
> > pushing approach of those has a serious impedance mismatch with modern
> > graphics pipelines - it happens that just this week I benchmarked 

AW: NetBeans GUI icons, who drew them?

[Christian Lenz]

The thing with the folder is, it has sub folders for each module and the use. 
This makes it much easiert to change all Icons at once, if you want another set 
of Icons to change it by your own. For example, of changing it via a look and 
feel. And searching for all Icons. We don’t have a pain in the ass to find and 
figure out duplicated Icons. IMHO.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Antonio
Gesendet: Montag, 8. April 2019 07:58
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: NetBeans GUI icons, who drew them?



El 07/04/2019 a las 23:32, Wade Chandler escribió:
> 
> I discourage such a merge where icons from various modules wind up inside a 
> single module. The module code itself still has to reference these things, 
> and as such now must touch more than one module just to add an image. Why 
> would I want N graphic files if I am using the platform but not the modules 
> which require the N graphics? I call that bloat. I think if we are having an 
> issue finding icons, and need a solution, we should solve that versus a giant 
> lump; it could be a module manifest marker or something similar.
> 

Well, this can made optional.

Many icons in NetBeans are retrieved using a simple String that is sent 
to ImageUtilities [1] in "openide.util.ui". This module in turn depends 
on "openide.util".

We could define an "IconProvider" service interface API, responsible for 
finding icons by name.

And then change ImageUtilities to lookup one (or more) IconProvider SPIs 
at runtime. When an icon is requested to ImageUtilities (by name) then 
let's send that request to all SPIs, and see if any returns a proper icon.

So we end up with a set of pluggable "IconProvider"'s that people can 
extend to replace existing icons gradually, and modules won't have to be 
modified/refactored.

Cheers,
Antonio


[1]
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/blob/master/platform/openide.util.ui/src/org/openide/util/ImageUtilities.java


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AW: NetBeans GUI icons, who drew them?

[Christian Lenz]

Hey guys,

I want to mention here the repo of IntelliJ the community edition. They do it 
as a package inside of the platform called Icons: 
https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community/tree/master/platform/icons as 
you can see, everything (I don’t know whether it is 100% or less but most of 
the Icons are inside of this package in subpackages. This is somehow 
centralized and not packed with each module and we don’t need find any Icon 
out. And as far as I can see, they use SVG Icons.

So all on all, I know that atm it is not possible to have it like this, but 
this is, imho the future, that what we want and will be a lot of work. But 
maybe we can start to move Icons one by one to such a public package. And yes, 
I know that this will change the platform too(?).


Cheers

Chris



Von: Antonio
Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. April 2019 11:11
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: NetBeans GUI icons, who drew them?

Great pieces of advice here (and in another threads).

A summary with some more ideas:

== Color Scheme:

If we're to redesign icons we may want to define a color scheme first.

As Glenn points out the color scheme should play nice with color blind 
users and also play nice with the different LaFs we use frequently 
(including dark ones such as Darcula).

== Precompiling

As Tim points out we don't want to waste CPU/GPU time rendering 
gradients for icons at runtime.

We could define some "standard" sizes for icons and precompile them to 
these sizes. Very much like native mobile apps do for Android an iOS. In 
iOS, for example, they have @1x, @2x, @3x suffixes for different icons 
sizes.

That, of course will require a project/repository of its own.

== Standardizing

If we're to precompile icons we may also want to standardize them 
somehow. We could separate icons by cluster (in the repository above), 
and create a cluster-specific module responsible for returning icons (of 
appropriate size depending on DPI) for all modules in that cluster.

The objective being making all "folder" icons look similar. We now have 
blue folders and yellow folders all around.

== Generating SVG from PNG

See Tim's response in another thread [1]. I think Emilian set up a 
website in 2017 to do this [2].

I don't think automatic conversion is worth the effort: we'll end up 
having to fine-tune the results by hand, as Emilian tried to do back in 
2017.

Also note that Adobe Illustrator seems to have a way to do this: 
https://www.lifewire.com/use-image-trace-in-adobe-illustrator-cc-2017-4125254

Cheers,
Antonio

[1]
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/netbeans-dev/201904.mbox/%3cCA+qecRNnE=L49v5t46q_LVc=rpTqJD3U7zt4-0DAroG=x6h...@mail.gmail.com%3e

[2]
https://jaxenter.com/netbeans/netbeans-retina

El 06/04/2019 a las 19:50, Tim Boudreau escribió:
> I did most of the icons in 1999 (a few of them still exist in core as tree
> icons for nodes that are not typically shown anymore); in 2000 they were
> taken over by Sun's Human Interface Engineering team, and everything was
> converted to the (awful) "flush 3d" metal look and feel look. Circa 2004 we
> got out from under the tyrrany of metal look and feel, and they were
> redesigned again by a guy whose name I can't remember, but could probably
> dig up - that redesign established the shapes still in use for things like
> classes, fields and methods. Since then there was one reworking of the
> icons that made them more cartoonish (I remember Wade calling it "NetBeans
> for babies").
> 
> I think in the long run, switching to vector icons is smart. That said, I
> would not run with SVG without precompiling it into code that drives a
> Graphics2D and either renders and caches images, or deals with performance
> and memory allocation issues around GradientPaint and friends in the JDK
> (both allocate large rasters on every paint, and vertical and horizontal
> and radial gradients can be cached and reused instead - AND the pixel
> pushing approach of those has a serious impedance mismatch with modern
> graphics pipelines - it happens that just this week I benchmarked cached
> gradient BufferedImages vs GradientPaint and RadialGradientPaint with as
> much raster caching as you could do there - the result was blitting
> BufferedImages was 10x faster, and 40x faster if you ran a full GC between
> benchmark loops, meaning that performance with Paint objects is also much
> less predictable). One of the rationales for JavaFX's creation was to have
> a graphics toolkit that operated with the grain of how modern graphics
> cards work, rather than 1990s xterms did things.
> 
> -Tim
> 
> On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 7:09 PM Eirik Bakke  wrote:
> 
>> There are over 3000 bitmap icon images in the NetBeans codebase. Probably
>> at least several hundred of these are frequently seen by everyday NetBeans
>> users. The page below shows all the unique "gif" or "png" files that
>> existed in the NetBeans mercurial repo prior to the Apache transition:
>>
>> 

AW: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process

[Christian Lenz]

Hey Arsi,

did you tried it with NetBeans 11? Just asking.


Cheers

Chris



Von: arsi
Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. April 2019 09:24
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process

Hi,

I tried to compile NBANDRIOD-V2 for NB10, but there is a problem with the 
implementation version of the maven modules. 


The compiled version of NB10 that is on the web has a different impl versions...





It must be ensured that the implementation versions of the maven artifacts are 
identical to the current ANBxx distribution. 

Thanks..


Arsi






From: Jaroslav Tulach 
Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2019 4:06AM
To: Dev 
Subject: Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process
Great! I have successfully used both repositories (1012 and 1013) to build my 
projects.
-jt

Dne pátek 5. dubna 2019 19:09:48 CEST, Eric Barboni napsal(a):
Hi,

 I would notify  that we have now Apache NetBeans (incubating) 11 maven
artefacts
https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1013

 and the 10 version here
 https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012

they are respectively build by Jenkins at apache according to the respective
tag that was voted +1.

I removed the former repository with org.apache.netbeans groupid

Regards
Eric

-Message d'origine-
De : Jaroslav Tulach 
Envoyé : vendredi 29 mars 2019 10:26
À : Apache NetBeans 
Objet : Re: [MENTORS] Apache NetBeans maven artifacts groupId and process

Ate wrote:
Hi Mark,
Thanks a ton for the detailed reply, which makes a lot of sense to me.

Given that, I see no strong argument or reason to further hold up the

(re)quest to keep using org.netbeans for Maven GroupId.

Assuming of course all the technical and administrative hurdles with

Nexus and Sonatype can and will be dealt with appropriately.

So +1 on this from me.

Thank you Ate and Mark for looking at the Apache NetBeans groupId issue so
through-fully. Thanks Ate, for giving us a go to proceed.
Eric Barboni  wrote:
I would like to know how to present or handle the vote for a this
staged items

I personally suggest to hold the vote few weeks to not conflict with the
current vote about NetBeans 11 release, but...
The content is on apache nexus like that
https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1
012 the build is based on source from a git tag equals to the voted
Apache NetBeans (incubating) 10 and I sign the artefacts with my key.
Is this enough for a vote ? (nothing more on  dist.apache.org as
source zip already done, not sha512 as nexus not support it)

...count with my +1 for the
https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachenetbeans-1012
repository anytime you call the vote!
-jt


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AW: HiDPI/Retina improvements, confluence page

[Christian Lenz]

Why trying to convert PNG to SVG? Why not using Icons that are there for years? 
Made out of SVG. Like font awesome or material Icons or whatever. We don’t need 
images converted to SVG. Either we need SVG support in NetBeans or we need to 
convert public SVG icons to PNG. IMHO


Cheers

Chris



Von: Tim Boudreau
Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. April 2019 09:39
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: HiDPI/Retina improvements, confluence page

FWIW, I've played with *programmatic* conversion of icons to SVG. It is not
exactly practical (at least without, say, a bunch of deep learning stuff).
Basically the task is a variety of pattern recognition problems and
optimization problems - first recognizing WHAT to draw, and then how to do
that optimally (you can convert anything to SVG if it's a bunch of 1-pixel
rectangles :-)).

Recognizing lines is simple enough - combine generic edge detection with
walking the edge and analyzing the colors. Gradient detection for vertical
and horizontal and 45 degree linear gradients is pretty simple, and cyclic
gradients are a matter of making a difference matrix and seeing if there's
a fold column or row at which it cancels out.

It would probably be possible to write something that mows through all
images in the codebase and generates skeleton SVG based on what can be
detected for the entire icon set. Put that together with a little web app
showing the original, skeleton SVG w/ download, and a way to upload and
view contributed SVG icons and it would be pretty easy to crowdsource this
far and wide.

There is one Unix utility, potrace, which does decent but monochrome image
to SVG conversion - but just shapes with a threshold for black versus
white. I don't think it would be much use here.

-Tim


On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 6:54 PM Eirik Bakke  wrote:

> There has been recurring discussions about making NetBeans look better on
> HiDPI (retina) screens. This is a large umbrella issue, touching all three
> major operating systems (Windows, Linux, and MacOS), with many subtasks
> involved. I have created a Confluence page which summarizes the current
> state of HiDPI/Retina on NetBeans, and the high-level TODOs:
>
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/HiDPI+%28Retina%29+improvements
>
> The biggest unknown here is probably how to replace the old bitmap icons
> (several thousands, or at least hundreds) with scalable equivalents. But
> before that is done, SVG icons must be supported from the NetBeans Platform
> APIs (ImageUtilities, Node etc.).
>
> -- Eirik
>
> --
http://timboudreau.com

AW: plugins.netbeans.org / netbeans.org

[Christian Lenz]

Oracle hosted them by there own with there own little webapp to have a list 
page and a detail page, why not making it by our own? For example with 
OracleJET frontend? If that is more work, of course it is more work, why not 
using GitHub? Git can handle tags and GitHub have this view to see Releases and 
tags. Maybe we can crawl them and show them on our own page.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Samstag, 6. April 2019 16:14
An: dev
Betreff: Re: plugins.netbeans.org / netbeans.org

On Sat, Apr 6, 2019 at 4:01 PM Christian Lenz 
wrote:

> Hi all, I already created a ticket for the approval/signing of plugins. I
> want to mention it here, beacuse the discussion started also about that
> part. https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-2331 IMHO there is
> no real reason to have 2 different workflows. If we want to have the
> signing process for NetBeans modules, we need to make it mandatory. No two
> ways, just one.
>
> I have another question, why want we add all the Plugins to the Maven
> central repo? For what reason?
>

OK, sure. Let's add them somewhere else. Where?

Gj




>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> Von: arsi
> Gesendet: Samstag, 6. April 2019 11:29
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: plugins.netbeans.org / netbeans.org
>
> Hi,
>
> A sensible solution, we still have to think about thatwe need to do SPI
> or record in layer.xml to allow Netbeans platform developers to use
> custom URL for this new system.
>
> I think we could later add an automatic update of developer plugins
> records in his local copy of the repo through the NB Maven plugins
> autoupdate goal. Or add a new goal for this.
>
>
> Arsi
> 
> *From:* Tushar Joshi 
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 06, 2019 10:08AM
> *To:* Dev 
> *Subject:* Re: plugins.netbeans.org / netbeans.org
>
> > There are two main issues which need discussion for maintaining an
> approved
> > list of plugins which shall be available by default on the plugins dialog
> > box.
> >
> > 1) Approved plugins by Apache NetBeans Committers - Old process was to
> have
> > a manual verification step to approve plugins before they become
> available
> > by default in the plugin dialog box.  I believe this is a necessary
> process
> > to eliminate malicious activity for plugins.
> >
> > 2) People can still define their own repositories and publish it as a
> > NetBeans plugin repository (we can have a starndard way of defining a
> > NetBeans Plugin repository in GIT).  These repositories can be added to
> the
> > plugin dialog settings and be available as other repositories to be added
> > on user's own risk when they know the developers of the plugin.
> >
> > Regarding the updates.xml let me describe the way how Homebrew does this.
> > They have a GIT repository representing a plugin registry.  This registry
> > is cloned on the user's machine (which can be updated using git commands
> > easily for updates), now the whole plugin registry is in user's local
> > machine to do processing listing and managing a common list to show on
> the
> > dialog.  We can adopt similar way to maintain plugin registry.
> >
> > The addition of plugin files by PR has advantage of manual approval of
> that
> > PR when new plugin or update to existing plugin is requested.  Before
> > merging the PR we can have committers first validate and verify the
> plugins
> > by installing them and making sanity checks regarding fair play.
> >
> > with regards
> > Tushar
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 6, 2019 at 1:05 PM arsi  wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Well written, with my translator English I can't write it so.. ;(
> >>
> >>
> >> I see the problem in the file registration.
> >> I find it quite challenging a new PR will be required for each new
> >> version of plugin.
> >>
> >> Registering updates.xml seems easier to me.
> >> It would be enough to write a script that parses the list, downloads the
> >> updates.xml once a day and generates one resulting update file.
> >> (Travis-CI could be used )
> >>
> >> Arsi
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> >> *From:* Tushar Joshi 
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, April 06, 2019 2:53AM
> >> *To:* Dev 
> >> *Subject:* Re: plugins.netbeans.org / netbeans.org
> >>
> >>> Regarding the plugin developers to register their plugins easily.  I
> will
> &g

AW: NetBeans GUI icons, who drew them?

[Christian Lenz]

We should try not to find what happens last years, we should unifiy them all in 
all. And do it by our own. No need to ask what was the reason for that. Just 
use modern, flat Icons that are free, SVG will be best, convert them into PNG 
if SVG is not possible in Swing and use them.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Wade Chandler
Gesendet: Samstag, 6. April 2019 03:20
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: NetBeans GUI icons, who drew them?

You're looking at nearly a couple decades of work. I doubt anyone could
track down all names etc or even every single source. The best info would
come from the hg logs is my guess.

Wade

On Fri, Apr 5, 2019, 19:09 Eirik Bakke  wrote:

> There are over 3000 bitmap icon images in the NetBeans codebase. Probably
> at least several hundred of these are frequently seen by everyday NetBeans
> users. The page below shows all the unique "gif" or "png" files that
> existed in the NetBeans mercurial repo prior to the Apache transition:
>
> htps://people.csail.mit.edu/ebakke/misc/icons.html
>
> THE QUESTION: Does anyone know who actually designed and drew these icons?
>
> I assume some were cobbled together from various sources, but on the other
> hand, many of the frequently visible ones (e.g. the ones in the toolbars)
> seem to follow a quite consistent visual style.
>
> (This question relates to the effort of making NetBeans look better on
> HiDPI/Retina screens; see separate email thread.)
>
> -- Eirik
>
>

AW: plugins.netbeans.org / netbeans.org

[Christian Lenz]

Hi all, I already created a ticket for the approval/signing of plugins. I want 
to mention it here, beacuse the discussion started also about that part. 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-2331 IMHO there is no real 
reason to have 2 different workflows. If we want to have the signing process 
for NetBeans modules, we need to make it mandatory. No two ways, just one.

I have another question, why want we add all the Plugins to the Maven central 
repo? For what reason?


Cheers

Chris



Von: arsi
Gesendet: Samstag, 6. April 2019 11:29
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: plugins.netbeans.org / netbeans.org

Hi,

A sensible solution, we still have to think about thatwe need to do SPI 
or record in layer.xml to allow Netbeans platform developers to use 
custom URL for this new system.

I think we could later add an automatic update of developer plugins 
records in his local copy of the repo through the NB Maven plugins 
autoupdate goal. Or add a new goal for this.


Arsi

*From:* Tushar Joshi 
*Sent:* Saturday, April 06, 2019 10:08AM
*To:* Dev 
*Subject:* Re: plugins.netbeans.org / netbeans.org

> There are two main issues which need discussion for maintaining an approved
> list of plugins which shall be available by default on the plugins dialog
> box.
>
> 1) Approved plugins by Apache NetBeans Committers - Old process was to have
> a manual verification step to approve plugins before they become available
> by default in the plugin dialog box.  I believe this is a necessary process
> to eliminate malicious activity for plugins.
>
> 2) People can still define their own repositories and publish it as a
> NetBeans plugin repository (we can have a starndard way of defining a
> NetBeans Plugin repository in GIT).  These repositories can be added to the
> plugin dialog settings and be available as other repositories to be added
> on user's own risk when they know the developers of the plugin.
>
> Regarding the updates.xml let me describe the way how Homebrew does this.
> They have a GIT repository representing a plugin registry.  This registry
> is cloned on the user's machine (which can be updated using git commands
> easily for updates), now the whole plugin registry is in user's local
> machine to do processing listing and managing a common list to show on the
> dialog.  We can adopt similar way to maintain plugin registry.
>
> The addition of plugin files by PR has advantage of manual approval of that
> PR when new plugin or update to existing plugin is requested.  Before
> merging the PR we can have committers first validate and verify the plugins
> by installing them and making sanity checks regarding fair play.
>
> with regards
> Tushar
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 6, 2019 at 1:05 PM arsi  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Well written, with my translator English I can't write it so.. ;(
>>
>>
>> I see the problem in the file registration.
>> I find it quite challenging a new PR will be required for each new
>> version of plugin.
>>
>> Registering updates.xml seems easier to me.
>> It would be enough to write a script that parses the list, downloads the
>> updates.xml once a day and generates one resulting update file.
>> (Travis-CI could be used )
>>
>> Arsi
>>
>>
>> 
>> *From:* Tushar Joshi 
>> *Sent:* Saturday, April 06, 2019 2:53AM
>> *To:* Dev 
>> *Subject:* Re: plugins.netbeans.org / netbeans.org
>>
>>> Regarding the plugin developers to register their plugins easily.  I will
>>> propose the Homebrew model for registering plugins.
>>>
>>> This means maintaining the list of plugins as files in a github
>>> repository.  This repository will be considered as the plugin registry.
>> So
>>> the plugin developers will just have to submit a PR to get their plugins
>>> included or updated.  We can still create the moderation process to
>> verify
>>> and validate the plugins before we approve the PR for addition or update
>> of
>>> the plugins.
>>>
>>> The plugins can be uploaded to the maven registry just as mentioned in
>> the
>>> email thread and only the metadata, and registration, SHA hashes can be
>>> placed in the plugin registry github repository.
>>>
>>> I can provide more answers to the Homebrew process, as I have worked with
>>> Homebrew casks and updates since quite a time.
>>>
>>> with regards
>>>   Tushar
>>>
>>> Tushar Joshi, Nagpur: http://www.tusharjoshi.com
>>>
>>> * MCSD_NET C#, SCJP, RHCE, ZCE, PMP, CSM, SAFe, PRINCE2
>>>
>>> * Senior Architect @ Persistent Systems http://www.persistent.com
>>> * LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/tusharvjoshi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 6, 2019 at 2:28 AM arsi  wrote:
>>>
 Hi,

 Would not  be easier to allow plug-in developers to register their
 updates center "on the fly".

 We would do a git repository on github.
 There plug-in developer would add an xml file with a link, 

AW: [DISCUSS] Experimental installers for 11.0

[Christian Lenz]

Yes sure, I only wanted to say, that smth changed/smth is missing from using 
NetBeans > 9. So there where no problems with the old oracle NetBeans until 8.2 
(Maybe they where signed correctly) and no problems with NetBeans 9. It started 
happening with NetBeans 10. But to end my discussion, I will create a ticket or 
a new thread about that problem.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Pete Whelpton
Gesendet: Freitag, 5. April 2019 11:05
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] Experimental installers for 11.0

No worries :)   My understanding (I'm 100% sure that this my understanding
is correct) is that digital signing weights the algorithm more in favour of
not displaying a warning, but the early adopters (first few people to
download) may still get the warning until a sufficient level of "trust" has
been built up.

All the best,

P

On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 10:01 AM Christian Lenz 
wrote:

> So signing is missing here, if I understand it correctly. Thx for the link
> Pete.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> Von: Pete Whelpton
> Gesendet: Freitag, 5. April 2019 10:29
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] Experimental installers for 11.0
>
> The smartscreen warning is mentioned in the Smartscreen wikipedia page,
> under criticism:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_SmartScreen
>
> *SmartScreen Filter creates a problem for small software vendors when they
> distribute an updated version of installation or binary files over the
> internet. Whenever an updated version is released, SmartScreen responds by
> stating that the file is not commonly downloaded and can therefore install
> harmful files on your system. This can be fixed by the author digitally
> signing the distributed software. Reputation is then based not only on a
> file's hash but on the signing certificate as well. A common distribution
> method for authors to bypass SmartScreen warnings is to pack their
> installation program (for example Setup.exe) into a Z
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip_(file_format)>ip-Archive and distribute
> it that way, though this can confuse non-expert users.  *
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 9:24 AM Christian Lenz 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I’m fine with adding this with a comment that those installer are not
> > official.
> >
> > One Issue here is, when I wanted to start the installer, Windows says
> > again this message: https://ibb.co/2Nr8Q43. This happened also for
> > NetBeans > 9. Until NetBeans 9, I didn’t have this Problem. So smth
> changed
> > in the behaviour of the NetBeans executables/binaries that Windows will
> > show this message. I already gave this info in another thread. This will
> > only happen, when I download NetBeans, fresh and new. But when I delete
> the
> > whole folder and the whole dependent directories (userdir, cache), it
> will
> > show the message again.
> >
> > Should I create a new thread?
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> > Von: Geertjan Wielenga
> > Gesendet: Freitag, 5. April 2019 09:54
> > An: dev
> > Betreff: [DISCUSS] Experimental installers for 11.0
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Reema has put the installers created from the installer sources in her
> pull
> > request on Apache NetBeans GitHub in her repo:
> >
> >
> >
> https://github.com/rtaneja1/incubator-netbeans/tree/installer-bin-11vc4/nbbuild/installer/binaries
> >
> > She also has a process whereby the installers can be generated as part of
> > the build.
> >
> > However, since we have not checked in the sources of the installer into
> > Apache NetBeans GitHub and we have not included these convenience
> binaries
> > as part of the vote threads, the installers above can not be seen as
> > official Apache NetBeans installers -- though that should be the aim for
> > the next releases.
> >
> > However, as discussed in other threads some time ago, there's nothing
> wrong
> > with explicitly linking to the above on the page below so long as we
> clear
> > state that these are not official Apache NetBeans installers, though that
> > they should be seen as experimental installers for the next release:
> >
> > https://netbeans.apache.org/download/nb110/nb110.html
> >
> > Do we agree with this? Interested in responses and if everything is
> > favorable and no objections, will add the info as described above to the
> > page above in 24 hours.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Gj
> >
> >
>
>

AW: [DISCUSS] Experimental installers for 11.0

[Christian Lenz]

So signing is missing here, if I understand it correctly. Thx for the link Pete.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Pete Whelpton
Gesendet: Freitag, 5. April 2019 10:29
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] Experimental installers for 11.0

The smartscreen warning is mentioned in the Smartscreen wikipedia page,
under criticism:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_SmartScreen

*SmartScreen Filter creates a problem for small software vendors when they
distribute an updated version of installation or binary files over the
internet. Whenever an updated version is released, SmartScreen responds by
stating that the file is not commonly downloaded and can therefore install
harmful files on your system. This can be fixed by the author digitally
signing the distributed software. Reputation is then based not only on a
file's hash but on the signing certificate as well. A common distribution
method for authors to bypass SmartScreen warnings is to pack their
installation program (for example Setup.exe) into a Z
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zip_(file_format)>ip-Archive and distribute
it that way, though this can confuse non-expert users.  *



On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 9:24 AM Christian Lenz 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I’m fine with adding this with a comment that those installer are not
> official.
>
> One Issue here is, when I wanted to start the installer, Windows says
> again this message: https://ibb.co/2Nr8Q43. This happened also for
> NetBeans > 9. Until NetBeans 9, I didn’t have this Problem. So smth changed
> in the behaviour of the NetBeans executables/binaries that Windows will
> show this message. I already gave this info in another thread. This will
> only happen, when I download NetBeans, fresh and new. But when I delete the
> whole folder and the whole dependent directories (userdir, cache), it will
> show the message again.
>
> Should I create a new thread?
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> Von: Geertjan Wielenga
> Gesendet: Freitag, 5. April 2019 09:54
> An: dev
> Betreff: [DISCUSS] Experimental installers for 11.0
>
> Hi all,
>
> Reema has put the installers created from the installer sources in her pull
> request on Apache NetBeans GitHub in her repo:
>
>
> https://github.com/rtaneja1/incubator-netbeans/tree/installer-bin-11vc4/nbbuild/installer/binaries
>
> She also has a process whereby the installers can be generated as part of
> the build.
>
> However, since we have not checked in the sources of the installer into
> Apache NetBeans GitHub and we have not included these convenience binaries
> as part of the vote threads, the installers above can not be seen as
> official Apache NetBeans installers -- though that should be the aim for
> the next releases.
>
> However, as discussed in other threads some time ago, there's nothing wrong
> with explicitly linking to the above on the page below so long as we clear
> state that these are not official Apache NetBeans installers, though that
> they should be seen as experimental installers for the next release:
>
> https://netbeans.apache.org/download/nb110/nb110.html
>
> Do we agree with this? Interested in responses and if everything is
> favorable and no objections, will add the info as described above to the
> page above in 24 hours.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gj
>
>

AW: [DISCUSS] Experimental installers for 11.0

[Christian Lenz]

Hi,

I’m fine with adding this with a comment that those installer are not official.

One Issue here is, when I wanted to start the installer, Windows says again 
this message: https://ibb.co/2Nr8Q43. This happened also for NetBeans > 9. 
Until NetBeans 9, I didn’t have this Problem. So smth changed in the behaviour 
of the NetBeans executables/binaries that Windows will show this message. I 
already gave this info in another thread. This will only happen, when I 
download NetBeans, fresh and new. But when I delete the whole folder and the 
whole dependent directories (userdir, cache), it will show the message again.

Should I create a new thread?


Cheers

Chris



Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Freitag, 5. April 2019 09:54
An: dev
Betreff: [DISCUSS] Experimental installers for 11.0

Hi all,

Reema has put the installers created from the installer sources in her pull
request on Apache NetBeans GitHub in her repo:

https://github.com/rtaneja1/incubator-netbeans/tree/installer-bin-11vc4/nbbuild/installer/binaries

She also has a process whereby the installers can be generated as part of
the build.

However, since we have not checked in the sources of the installer into
Apache NetBeans GitHub and we have not included these convenience binaries
as part of the vote threads, the installers above can not be seen as
official Apache NetBeans installers -- though that should be the aim for
the next releases.

However, as discussed in other threads some time ago, there's nothing wrong
with explicitly linking to the above on the page below so long as we clear
state that these are not official Apache NetBeans installers, though that
they should be seen as experimental installers for the next release:

https://netbeans.apache.org/download/nb110/nb110.html

Do we agree with this? Interested in responses and if everything is
favorable and no objections, will add the info as described above to the
page above in 24 hours.

Thanks,

Gj

AW: NetBeans UserDir vs. Releases

[Christian Lenz]

Hey Laszlo,

I’m in between. I’m for it, do to removing old stuff automatically and getting 
the preferences from previous Version. But also I often read that someone says: 
please delete your user dir, if someone encountered a problem. So there we can 
see smth is not that stable as expected and needs further Investigation somehow.

On the other hand I would not use the old preferences automatically or as 
default, due to mentioned problems. When I install a newer version of IntelliJ 
they ask me, whether I want to uninstall the old version with the old settings 
or not. So after it, it seems, that the old settings are the default.

So all in all, but with asking to use the old ones or not and not make it as 
default.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Laszlo Kishalmi
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 4. April 2019 13:40
An: Apache NetBeans
Betreff: NetBeans UserDir vs. Releases

Dear all,

I would like to ask your opinion about changing the user and cache-dir 
with every release.

We have been pretty much compatible with our plugins and code since 8.2 
and actually many of us are actually living on the edge using refreshed 
dev versions every now and then without any issue.

So how do you think that having a non versioned user and cache-dir work 
out (like: "release" instead of "11.0" or "11.1")?

I'm bringing this up for two + one reasons:

1. The user experience of the upgrades would be more seamless.

2. Avoid code change required to check the previous release folder.

+1 Abandoned  older user and cache dirs are just kept floating around.



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AW: netbeans slack on theasf

[Christian Lenz]

We have another ticket: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18149 
sometimes the bridge between Jira and Slack is broken for NetBeans Slack. After 
restarting Jira, everything is fine again. Problem is they seem to not want to 
help here anymore, instead of saying please migrate to oour slack. Nothing to 
say here that I don’t like the „solution“ but yeah.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Eric Barboni
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 3. April 2019 15:51
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org; wadechand...@apache.org
Betreff: RE: netbeans slack on theasf

It's more for jenkins to message to slack, we got a token (chris do that 
configuration)  but AFAIK and by infra 
(https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18116) we cannot expose it in the 
Jenkins.
It's not urgent at all it's just oportunity

Regards
Eric
-Message d'origine-
De : Wade Chandler  
Envoyé : mercredi 3 avril 2019 13:55
À : dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Objet : Re: netbeans slack on theasf

Is there a limitation on the Jira tooling preventing using the current Slack? 
Seems easier to keep it in one place at the moment, then have a bigger 
discussion about moving it all to Apache Slack otherwise. I don't know about 
others, but I am a member of multiple Slack groups, per different OSS groups 
even, so don't see adding a group as a limitation.
That part is super easy.

For instance, there are multiple channels on the current Slack group, and 
NetBeans covers many technologies. The channel names in Slack have fairly short 
char limits, so preceding them all with netbeans- would not work well. This 
seems way more difficult that explaining where Slack is and how to access it 
for everything NetBeans, but we can see.

I guess I'm just thinking priorities. I'd rather spend time getting more of the 
project itself in working order right now unless there is a real limitation. 
Initially we had to debate the use of Slack at all as an example, so some time 
under the bridge there. But certainly interested in everyone's opinions.

Thanks

Wade


On Wed, Apr 3, 2019, 05:39 Eric Barboni  wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
>
>
> As part of a request to connect Jenkins build (for maven and apidoc) 
> to our netbeans.slack, I was told that we could move/migrate to the 
> slack atasf to use  their .
>
>  Maybe the more technical channels, like jira,github-repo can be 
> recreated at asfslack.
>
>
>
>   It may be easier for people having multiple apache project to be there.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Eric
>
>


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AW: [MENTORS] Partial/Patch releases

[Christian Lenz]

Hey Jan,

sounds like a great idea. I don’t know exactly how it was before at Oracle, but 
afaik when there are patch updates or smth similar, NetBeans noticed that right 
from the IDE and I could update it right from the IDE w/o building the whole 
IDE by the source or whatever. Only to let you know that, that I prefer the 
same old way as for Oracle, if possible. Yes that means to override existing 
nbm files. Or yes, Maybe with the update center.

A changelog should be also a must have, that the user see what changed, why was 
there an update etc.


Cheers

Chris


Von: Jan Lahoda
Gesendet: Dienstag, 26. März 2019 20:08
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: [MENTORS] Partial/Patch releases

Hi,

My personal opinion:
I think it'd be awesome if we could release updates to just some modules
(and do that with less overhead than the full release).

With some work, we might be able to create a source zip (i.e. a release
candidate) for individual module(s). One tricky part of that is we need a
README with a description of what it does (we should be able to generate
LICENSE/NOTICE, so these are likely a smaller problem). I'd personally be
fine if we said "to build this module, please download the already released
full source code, replace the module(s) and build." (so that we wouldn't
need much changes to the build infrastructure to do the actual build).

For the convenience binary, I think it would be best if we could overwrite
the existing NBM on the existing update centre directory. But if not
possible, it might be possible to create a convenience binary consisting of
the NBM+the update centre catalog (the .xml) pointing to the convenience
binary NBMs from the last/previous full release.

Jan


On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 11:16 AM Laszlo Kishalmi 
wrote:

> Dear Mentors,
>
> NetBeans is a big modular project. It has the infrastructure to deliver
> patches on module level.
>
> It is quite plausible that as we are going to have more modules
> included, we need to release critical bugfixes in form of patch releases
> some modules.
>
> Regarding that we are right now voting on the whole source code before
> releases, how shall we handle patch releases of a module?
>
> Also the most consumable format of these patches are convenience binary
> format nbm modules which is currently backed up by Apache infra for
> distribution. That would mean we would overwrite some files in the
> release folder.
>
> So my question, how is it possible do partial releases (based on
> modules) inside Apache?
>
> Laszlo Kishalmi
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

AW: [DISCUSSION] Apache NetBeans 11.1 Development

[Christian Lenz]

Hey Guys,

good to see its ongoing the discussion About another release. I know that I 
already said that but I want to point it up again. As said, I also think that 4 
releases a year is possible, where we focus on good NetCat process on the major 
releases (11, 12, 13, etc.) and not that much process on the minor releases 
(11.1, 12.1, etc.). And also Patches should/could be possible. So when there 
are some tickets that are related to a major release and we don’t want to 
postpone the release, why not making a patch release (NetBeans 11 Patch1, 
Patch2, etc.) or Bugfixing (NetBeans 11.0.1, NetBeans 11.0.2). So patches and 
bugfix versions should only have bug fixes which are really 
needed/critical/blocker or whatever.

At the Moment, why I think it was a bit to much pressure are 2 things:
1. Getting major releases everytime while we are still in donation phase. So in 
my point of view, I think we will have less stress after all of the donation 
from Oracle is done.
2. A very long process, that we don’t want to cut or postponed for NetCAT

So all in all, I think after all the donation it will be less stress IMHO and 
we will have more time for other Things to work/Focus on.


I’m also for 11.1 for this I can add the package.json Icon finally. 
Unfortunately, I couldn’t find time to work on further but it would be sad if 
we will only have it for NetBeans 12. Only my 2 cents and yes I know, it is my 
Problem that the stuff is not going into NetBeans 11.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Dienstag, 26. März 2019 12:07
An: dev
Betreff: Re: [DISCUSSION] Apache NetBeans 11.1 Development

If we do 11.1, it would be in June, i.e., 3 months after 11.0 and 3 months
before 12.0:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+Release+Roadmap

(Or we could simply call it 12.0, personally I don't mind so much about
numbers.)

It would contain whatever we have in master at the time of the release,
i.e., cut a release branch in 3 months containing whatever we have there.

It would also be a good opportunity for a brand new release manager (Eirik?
Neil? Sven?, i.e., several candidates spring to mind) to cut their teeth on
a small release, i.e., there wouldn't be heaps of new licenses, new
modules, new donations, new features. Instead, it would be a small release
-- and we could focus on fixing bugs, which is sorely needed.

Gj


On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 9:59 AM Laszlo Kishalmi 
wrote:

> Well, in order to have smaller incremental time-based releases, we have
> to work on our release process first.
>
> I think 4 releases a year is kind of doable if we have the RM capacity
> to do that (the one major, one bugfix is probably not that important
> regarding that). Right now the release process is consists of 30 steps,
> from which ~15 requires code changes in the release branch beside the
> usual cherry-picks.
>
> It is just FYI. So currently it is not a lightweight task to cut a
> release right from the master.
>
> On 3/25/19 10:23 AM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> > I have been thinking differently about this ‘capacity’ item. In summary,
> I
> > think it will be easier to release 4 times per year than 2 times per
> year,
> > precisely because of the capacity item. Dealing with smaller incremental
> > fixed date releases will I believe simplify rather than complexify
> things.
> > Neil C Smith did a good job of helping me see this perspective at Fosdem
> > recently and I hope I summarized him correctly but this is how I have
> come
> > to see it.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 25 Mar 2019 at 18:08, Matthias Bläsing <
> mblaes...@doppel-helix.eu>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Laszlo,
> >>
> >> Am Sonntag, den 24.03.2019, 14:29 -0700 schrieb Laszlo Kishalmi:
> >>> While we are doing the voting round, I think we need to think about
> >>> NetBeans 11.1.
> >>>
> >>> Are we planning continue do cherry-picking into the release branch for
> >>> 11.1 or do something more sophisticated? I mean 11.1 would be only some
> >>> patch release or bringing some new things as well, like I'm planning to
> >>> donate my Gradle support for Java EE projects.
> >>>
> >>> So any idea?
> >> my understanding was, that in 6 months (or whatever amount), we will
> >> release netbeans 12 with whatever was integrated into master. I think
> >> Gradle support for Java EE would fill that bill perfectly.
> >>
> >> Do we really have the capacity to release 12 and 11.1? I don't think
> >> so.
> >>
> >> Greetings
> >>
> >> Matthias
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 

AW: CDNJS module not working

[Christian Lenz]

Hey Rômulo,


We already have a ticket for this: 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-2183 only to let you know that. 
What are the Problems of forking the repo?


Cheers

Chris



Von: Rômulo Ferreira Douro
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. März 2019 20:10
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: CDNJS module not working

Hi.
Im using netbeans 10 and cdnjs module is not working.
I downloaded the code and recompile using a simple alteration in
incubator-netbeans/webcommon/javascript.cdnjs/src/org/netbeans/modules/javascript/cdnjs/LibraryProvider.java
file.
I alter the http by https in
"https://cdnjs.cloudflare.com/ajax/libs/{0}/{1}/{2};
and
"https://api.cdnjs.com/libraries?fields=description,homepage,assets=;
Links for cdn api
This works fine
I tried do fork in your github but unsuccesfully.
Please, view this question

-- 
best regards,

Rômulo F. Douro

AW: [VOTE] Apache NetBeans graduation to Top Level Project

[Christian Lenz]

+1



Von: Walter Nyland
Gesendet: Montag, 11. März 2019 12:01
An: dev; dev
Betreff: Re: [VOTE] Apache NetBeans graduation to Top Level Project

 +1
Walt
On Monday, March 11, 2019, 11:48:17 AM GMT+1, Geertjan Wielenga 
 wrote:  
 
 Hi all,

After a discussion amongst the Apache NetBeans community on the dev mailing
list[1], voting on a PMC chair[2], checking the podling status page[3], and
working through the maturity model[4], I would like to call a vote for
Apache NetBeans graduating to a top level project.

Apache NetBeans entered the incubator on October 1, 2016. Since then, we
have announced 2 releases, nominated several new committers, participated
in conferences and events, have 99 contributors with 2,423 commits, and --
most importantly -- have grown and diversified our community. Apache
NetBeans is a healthy project that is already acting like an Apache top
level project, so we should take the next step.

If we agree that we should graduate to a top level project, the next step
will be to draft a Resolution for the PPMC and IPMC to vote upon.

Please take a minute to vote on whether or not Apache NetBeans should
graduate to a Top Level Project by responding with one of the following:

[ ] +1 Apache NetBeans should graduate.
[ ] +0 No opinion
[ ] -1 Apache NetBeans should not graduate (please provide the reason)

The VOTE is open for a minimum of 72 hours. Per Apache guidelines[5] I will
also be notifying the incubator mailing list that a community vote is under
way.

Thanks,

Geertjan
on behalf of the Apache NetBeans PPMC

[1]
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/8724c66eb22c1ceea81160968cb5ae68fdc2180f46fbbfaab16b4ce9@%3Cdev.netbeans.apache.org%3E
[2]
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/e0ecae84ac6e4a097a34ce7b2afe0e987e403fe32269fb3903895bbc@%3Cdev.netbeans.apache.org%3E
[3] https://whimsy.apache.org/pods/project/netbeans
[4]
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+Maturity+Model+Assessment+for+NetBeans
[5]
https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#community_graduation_vote
  

AW: Improve indexing and file indentification?

[Christian Lenz]

Hey,

smth to add here. Maybe Wade Chandler can say smth, I think he already had a 
quick look into that topic too. As I can remember he already said to me, that 
NetBeans has some problems with indexing, etc. So maybe he or someone else can 
make a little code review and let us know what they figured out. Of course 
there is code to optimize. So for this, we don’t need a real bug ticket. 
Looking into the code, check what happens there and maybe there are glitches or 
some enhancements what can have a benefit. After this, we can have a ticket to 
change the logic. Test it, etc.

My 2cents


Cheers

Chris



Von: Laszlo Kishalmi
Gesendet: Freitag, 8. März 2019 18:59
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Improve indexing and file indentification?

Just FYI: In NetBeans 11.0 we have removed the restrictive memory settings.

On 3/8/19 9:53 AM, Lars Bruun-Hansen wrote:
> Regarding performance:  In my experience part of the problem has been
> (historically) that the default -Xmx setting for NB IDE has simply been too
> low. People just don't go to etc/netbeans.conf on their own and change it.
> Anyway, when you compare the two IDEs remember to make sure they have been
> allocated exactly the same amount of memory. Do *not* compare
> out-of-the-box (no tweaking) performance. In short: Once I learned that I
> should always allocate memory handsomely to NB IDE I've never experienced
> problems with performance. I can't remember that I've had 50 projects open
> at the same time, but something like 40 for sure. No probs.
>
> This is not to say that NB IDE can't be improved in the performance area.
> Above is just my personal/anecdotal experience.
>
> /Lars
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 5:08 PM Jean-Marc Borer  wrote:
>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> In the office we were comparing Netbeans to IntelliJ indexing performances
>> and I have to admit that IntelliJ performs very well here (I was
>> impressed). We had about 50 maven projects open at the same time. I wonder
>> how IntelliJ reaches such performances.
>>
>> Another thing that could be improved in NB would be that when you look for
>> symbols (CTRL+o), it should also propose file names. This is useful when
>> you have config files or other assets in your project(s) that are not only
>> contain code. Does this feature already exist in NB?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> JMB
>>

-
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For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
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AW: Prepare for Apache NetBeans 11.0 vc3

[Christian Lenz]

Only to jump in and ask, what About having Patches again? I mean if a big 
critical fix is not going to happen in the next release due to lack of time or 
whatever reason we have, why not doing Patches after the official release and 
not waiting for the next release in Maybe September?


Cheers

Chris




Von: Josh Juneau
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. März 2019 16:14
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Cc: NetCAT team
Betreff: Re: Prepare for Apache NetBeans 11.0 vc3

Thanks Geertjan and Laszlo,

I haven't had lots of time to work on the "Java EE 8" support,
unfortunately.  I will try to pick this up and see what I can do in the
next couple of days though.

I'll keep the group updated on progress.


On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 9:05 AM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:

> Ah, also, Java EE 8 needed in drop-down in Java Web projects (Josh?) is
> needed to get clarity on.
>
> Gj
>
> On Wednesday, March 6, 2019, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Excellent mail and timing. For me, the big remaining problems, that
> should
> > not be hard to fix, are about Node.js debugging (discussed with Jess and
> > Pete yesterday on dev) and the broken reference in Ant Java Web projects
> > (reported by several) for which there is a simple workaround and Ant
> isn’t
> > our main focus anymore anyway.
> >
> > So, hoping those will be done after vc3 or in worst case for next
> release.
> > I believe we’re looking pretty good and should consider vc3 being the one
> > that we put forward for real voting, i.e., it could be our release
> > candidate, even without the above two fixed.
> >
> > And if we push ahead to vote on becoming top level project, we might be
> > able to avoid IPMC vote — i.e., I will put a vote thread for top level
> > project together, after first a discussion thread about this, to sketch
> out
> > what that vote means before we actually vote.
> >
> > So, bring on vc3!
> >
> > Gj
> >
> >
> > On Wednesday, March 6, 2019, Laszlo Kishalmi 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Dear all,
> >>
> >> First of all thank you for the increased activity, PR-s are getting
> >> approved and merged!
> >>
> >> Initially we started this release cycle with about one week slide, I
> >> think cutting a vc3 tomorrow with at least 11 new PR included would put
> us
> >> back on the track.
> >>
> >> Please also start to concentrate on our blocker issues! I'm going to
> send
> >> out a more detailed summary on them after this mail.
> >>
> >> Please remember:
> >>
> >> Whatever PR you feel is needed to be included into the release shall be
> >> marked with *Need Cherry Picking* label on GitHub!
> >>
> >>
> >> Laszlo Kishalmi
> >>
> >> Volunteer RM of Apache NetBeans 11.0
> >>
> >>
> >> -
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
-- 
Josh Juneau
juneau...@gmail.com
http://jj-blogger.blogspot.com
https://www.apress.com/index.php/author/author/view/id/1866

AW: What NetBeans is on front page

[Christian Lenz]

For me I can only join maybe half an hour or so, not that much unfortunately, 
but I’m fine with that.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Freitag, 22. Februar 2019 15:16
An: David Schulz
Cc: Christian Lenz; dev
Betreff: Re: What NetBeans is on front page

Monday the 4th of March would be great because it would give some time to
announce this.

-10 pm Taiwan time.

-9 am Washington, USA

-3 pm Berlin, Germany


That might be a blocker for some but not for others. I imagine a few is all
that's needed -- I'd certainly like to join in.


Can you confirm 4 March at the above time slot? Then we can pass it around
on Twitter, mailing lists, etc.


I have a Zoom account we could use or we could use Skype, or whatever you
prefer.


Let us know and we'll announce it!


Gj




On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 3:35 AM David Schulz  wrote:

> I had massive problems the last days with my connection in Taiwan. Not
> sure if it makes sense to do it this week or the week after (somewhere
> around Monday the 4th of March). I hope that I have a better connection in
> Bangkok than I have now in Taiwan.
>
>
>
> Anyway, I would love to do the live stream at 10 pm Taiwan time.
>
> -9 am Washington, USA
>
> -3 pm Berlin, Germany
>
>
>
> Alternatively, we could try it this Sunday at 10 pm Taiwan time?
>
> Any opinions?
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> uxactly GmbH <http://uxact.ly/>
> system design thinking
>
> Kurfürstendamm 28
>
> 10719 Berlin
>
> Tel: 0174 933 85 36
> Mail: da...@uxact.ly
> Skype: rai...@live.de
>
>
>
> LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-schulz> | Xing
> <https://www.xing.com/profile/David_Schulz>
>
>
>
> *From: *Geertjan Wielenga 
> *Sent: *Freitag, 22. Februar 2019 03:52
> *To: *Christian Lenz ; David Schulz
> ; dev 
> *Subject: *Re: What NetBeans is on front page
>
>
>
> What time will it be and how can people join? Let us know so we can
> announce it on the mailing lists.
>
>
>
> Gj
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 7:37 PM Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> That's great. What time will it be and how can people join? Let us know so
> we can announce it on the mailing lists.
>
>
>
> Gj
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 6:40 PM Christian Lenz 
> wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
>
>
> would be great if we can have a live session together. I mean of course
> not all the members are needed but some of them who wants to change the
> layout of the page. Dave, for you and all others, please see
> https://netbeans.puls-webagentur.de/ All Information about the IDE is
> still there and present. What languages we have as a native support. A
> screenshot of the light and the darkula laf, which frameworks and
> technologies we support natively and what makes it customizable. I know
> that it not fits in the page anymore but those Information is important for
> our users of the NetBeans IDE to know WOW there is far more than only Java.
> Maybe smth has to be changed but yeah. This is more or less complete.
>
>
>
> And to say it again, we need the info which IDE Version is the current one
> and a easy download link to them and not via the slider.
>
>
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Von: *David Schulz 
> *Gesendet: *Mittwoch, 20. Februar 2019 03:32
> *An: *Geertjan Wielenga ; dev
> 
> *Betreff: *RE: What NetBeans is on front page
>
>
>
> Great ideas, we should collect them!
>
> I plan to do a live design session at the upcoming weekend (no details
> yet).
>
> Feel free to send me all the input and ideas you have, or join our session
> if possible 
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Geertjan Wielenga
>
> Sent: Mittwoch, 20. Februar 2019 06:56
>
> To: dev; David Schulz
>
> Subject: Re: What NetBeans is on front page
>
>
>
> Agree completely, both with Antonio and Ondro.
>
>
>
> Re the redesign plans, see this:
> https://twitter.com/Dave_UX/status/1096385375273013248
>
>
>
> Gj
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 11:17 PM Ondro Mihályi 
> wrote:
>
> Hi, just my 2 cents: Netbeans is first and foremost an IDE, which means you
>
> can do all the development inside it, including coding, running, debugging,
>
> testing, and even running a terminal. The current page doesn't explain
>
> that, it only stresses that it's more than an editor. Nothing about running
>
> and debugging apps which is the essential difference between IDEs and
>
> e

AW: Team in India

[Christian Lenz]

Hey Geertjan,

thx for pointing that out. Yes I already heard those names but I didn’t know 
which people are from community like me, working in his freetime (for some I 
can guess, for some not) on features and who are the people are still get paid 
from Oracle. So again, thx for that.

You have a clear point, me too, you know that. Whereever I can help with my 
knowledge and whatever I can do, be sure, I will. My priority list for adding 
new features to NetBeans as 3rd-party-plugins or into the core is big.

Thx for adding the page 
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Feature+Request+Outlines I 
will think about the stuff, how it can/will look like, with screenshots/little 
proposals, etc. I only want to be heard not to say: I need this, please make 
it. I often created tickets where I thought: man that sounds easy, let’s do it. 
So thx again for the hints, I will do my best. Back in the days, I know that 
plan under Oracle, having proposals how a feature can look like.


Cheers

Chris


Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Freitag, 22. Februar 2019 15:12
An: dev
Cc: d...@netbeans.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Team in India

You know them already -- see them here:
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/graphs/contributors

rtaneja1, sarveshkesharwani, arusinha, and vikasprabhakar.

Who are these people? What have they contributed? It's very easy to see --
click the link above and you'll see their commits.

They've been focused on bringing the NetBeans code over from Oracle to
Apache, which has been really a lot of work, as well as bringing in new
features for the latest releases of the JDK, e.g.:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Feature%3A+JDK+12

Their focus is and will remain in the Java area of Apache NetBeans.

In the same way as various community people are working on the Java/Jakarta
EE support of Apache NetBeans, e.g., Josh Juneau and Pete Whelpton, similar
things should/could be happening in the JavaScript area.

Chris, you can really help -- personally, I'm not going to investigate
things just because you shout loudly about things. Instead, I'd be happy to
be involved, together with you, as equals, together with anyone else -- but
only if we can work calmly and rationally, with a clear list of priorities.
I am not going to investigate something simply based on your understandable
frustrations, that is not the basis of anything useful -- that is called
"the squeaky wheel getting the grease".

So, here is where you can put clear outlines, i.e., specifications, for new
features. E.g., I'd love to work on Vue support. But what is Vue support?
What does a Vue project look like? What capabilities should it have? Yes,
you have an issue, but what we need is a specification so that we can work
on a clear set of functionality for each JavaScript feature we together
consider priorities to work on:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Feature+Request+Outlines

Can you do this, it would be a great contribution to Apache NetBeans, to
lead the delivery of specifications for missing features in the JavaScript
area. Again, no, this is not a request for a response with a long list of
issues. Instead, those issues need to be grouped around features that we
can work on implementing together.

Thanks,

Gj

On Fri, Feb 22, 2019 at 2:46 PM Christian Lenz 
wrote:

> Hey Guys,
>
> as far as i can remember, someone (maybe geertjan) said smth about a
> dedicated team, paid from Oracle, working on NetBeans. I think it was half
> a year ago or more or less when he said that.
>
> So my question is, who are those people in person, how many are there and
> what are there priorities for the next time? I ask for a good reason.
>
> I know that everyone of us is NetBeans but not everyone has time to
> impelement the cool and missing stuff into NetBeans. I still see a higher
> prio of Java topics (and still the transition phase which i also know) and
> we miss still a lot of other topics (HTML, JS, CSS, scss, less, etc.)
>
> I can remember that Petr Pisl was THE guy for JS, at Oracle. He and maybe
> one other, implemented ES6, ES7 and jsx support which is awesome. Afaik he
> is now working on other stuff at Oracle and can't find time to contribute
> to Apache NetBeans anymore. So there is a big person missing for the web
> stuff that i mentioned above. Unfortunately, lack of time and lack of
> knowledge i can't do all of that by myself, definetely i will contribute.
>
> So long story short, if there is a dedicated team, it would be good, if
> possible, that a product owner can manage time for not only Java stuff into
> NetBeans but other language support too. Yes i have some things to count
> what is missing and what other IDEs have it now for months or years. And
> yes i will implement some stuff too, when i have time and when i have help
> and a better understanding of all the stuff.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
>

Team in India

[Christian Lenz]

Hey Guys,

as far as i can remember, someone (maybe geertjan) said smth about a dedicated 
team, paid from Oracle, working on NetBeans. I think it was half a year ago or 
more or less when he said that.

So my question is, who are those people in person, how many are there and what 
are there priorities for the next time? I ask for a good reason.

I know that everyone of us is NetBeans but not everyone has time to impelement 
the cool and missing stuff into NetBeans. I still see a higher prio of Java 
topics (and still the transition phase which i also know) and we miss still a 
lot of other topics (HTML, JS, CSS, scss, less, etc.)

I can remember that Petr Pisl was THE guy for JS, at Oracle. He and maybe one 
other, implemented ES6, ES7 and jsx support which is awesome. Afaik he is now 
working on other stuff at Oracle and can't find time to contribute to Apache 
NetBeans anymore. So there is a big person missing for the web stuff that i 
mentioned above. Unfortunately, lack of time and lack of knowledge i can't do 
all of that by myself, definetely i will contribute.

So long story short, if there is a dedicated team, it would be good, if 
possible, that a product owner can manage time for not only Java stuff into 
NetBeans but other language support too. Yes i have some things to count what 
is missing and what other IDEs have it now for months or years. And yes i will 
implement some stuff too, when i have time and when i have help and a better 
understanding of all the stuff.


Cheers

Chris

AW: What NetBeans is on front page

[Christian Lenz]

Hey all,

would be great if we can have a live session together. I mean of course not all 
the members are needed but some of them who wants to change the layout of the 
page. Dave, for you and all others, please see 
https://netbeans.puls-webagentur.de/ All Information about the IDE is still 
there and present. What languages we have as a native support. A screenshot of 
the light and the darkula laf, which frameworks and technologies we support 
natively and what makes it customizable. I know that it not fits in the page 
anymore but those Information is important for our users of the NetBeans IDE to 
know WOW there is far more than only Java. Maybe smth has to be changed but 
yeah. This is more or less complete.

And to say it again, we need the info which IDE Version is the current one and 
a easy download link to them and not via the slider.


Cheers

Chris



Von: David Schulz
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 20. Februar 2019 03:32
An: Geertjan Wielenga; dev
Betreff: RE: What NetBeans is on front page

Great ideas, we should collect them! 
I plan to do a live design session at the upcoming weekend (no details yet).
Feel free to send me all the input and ideas you have, or join our session if 
possible 

All the best, 
Dave



From: Geertjan Wielenga
Sent: Mittwoch, 20. Februar 2019 06:56
To: dev; David Schulz
Subject: Re: What NetBeans is on front page

Agree completely, both with Antonio and Ondro.

Re the redesign plans, see this: 
https://twitter.com/Dave_UX/status/1096385375273013248

Gj

On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 11:17 PM Ondro Mihályi  wrote:
Hi, just my 2 cents: Netbeans is first and foremost an IDE, which means you
can do all the development inside it, including coding, running, debugging,
testing, and even running a terminal. The current page doesn't explain
that, it only stresses that it's more than an editor. Nothing about running
and debugging apps which is the essential difference between IDEs and
editors.

Ondro

ut 19. 2. 2019 o 22:20 Antonio  napísal(a):

> Hi,
>
> Form:
>
> netbeans.apache.org needs some design love, I think.
> http://www.groovy-lang.org/ may be a good source of inspiration. I heard
> there were some design ideas floating around for the website, but we've
> been hearing that since 2017-2018. I can give the design a go during the
> next week (but I'm not very good at that).
>
> Content:
>
> I think Ate meant to explain a little bit more what NetBeans is to all
> users: what you can do with the platform, what you can do with the IDE,
> how is being donated to Apache, etc.
>
> Maybe we can use Confluence to discuss about the content. Let's create a
> web page with the texts that should go into the front page, and then
> subpages in Confluence that expand on that. Screenshots will be
> appreciated. We can users for screenshots, for instance.
>
> What say?
>
> Cheers,
> Antonio
>
>
> El 19/02/2019 a las 20:28, Geertjan Wielenga escribió:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I noticed this by our mentor Ate:
> >
> > Somehow I don't see this mentioned/used anywhere on the
> > currentnetbeans.apache.org website though.
> >> Nor any other description of what NetBeans is, which seems odd...
> >>
> >>
> > Here:
> >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/list.html?d...@netbeans.apache.org:lte=1M:After%20again%20checking%20the%20other%20parts
> >
> > So, I tweaked the front page a bit:
> >
> > https://netbeans.apache.org/
> >
> > I added 'Fits the pieces together' as well as the three things that
> > NetBeans is.
> >
> > Thoughts? Comments?
> >
> > Gjk
> >
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

AW: JIRA Template

[Christian Lenz]

I know, that this could happen, but JIRA for Apache is a global tool where 
everyone on the world can have access and create tickets. And the language is 
and should be english. Maybe a better communication about it would be good. 
Otherwise they thought there are people for each language to help. At the end I 
have to say, unfortunately, I can’t speak spanish, japanese or anything else 
than german or english (yet ) and I will not create tickets in german. Github 
is also a good example, that everything is and still should be english.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Eric Barboni
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 7. Februar 2019 16:22
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: RE: JIRA Template

Hi, 
 For the non english, if user configure language it is fully translated 
including the type of issue. It's complicated for user to understand that he 
should report in english. 
 
 I don't know how this can be applied within the jira workflow, but this can be 
helpfull.

Regards
Eric
-Message d'origine-
De : Christian Lenz  
Envoyé : jeudi 7 février 2019 15:38
À : d...@netbeans.apache.org
Objet : JIRA Template

Hey guys,

sometimes we have some tickets, where we don’t know how to handle them. Only a 
one liner, only Headline with a stack trace, no Version, no more Information, 
no Environment, not in english, etc. In case to Prevent most of them 
(hopefully) I created a proposal for a JIRA template for Bugs, but we can make 
them more generic for other types too. Or we will use different template for 
Bugs, improvements, Features, wishes, etc.

You can find it here: https://pastebin.com/hcx7SDUb (It is unlisted, not public)

I got the idea of the template from this repo: 
https://github.com/junichi11/netbeans-wordpress-plugin/issues/new

Feel free to discuss, tell me what you think or give some other hints. This 
will not catch all 100% but hopefully most of them and if someone will not use 
the template, we can close the ticket and thats it. This is not rude, because 
they did it by their own. It is not perfect and I think there is a better way 
but yeah for the first run, it should be good enough to go. If someone has more 
Rights for that, please add it into jira. If no one knows how to do it, I can 
google and will let you know then.


Cheers

Chris


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
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For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
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JIRA Template

[Christian Lenz]

Hey guys,

sometimes we have some tickets, where we don’t know how to handle them. Only a 
one liner, only Headline with a stack trace, no Version, no more Information, 
no Environment, not in english, etc. In case to Prevent most of them 
(hopefully) I created a proposal for a JIRA template for Bugs, but we can make 
them more generic for other types too. Or we will use different template for 
Bugs, improvements, Features, wishes, etc.

You can find it here: https://pastebin.com/hcx7SDUb (It is unlisted, not public)

I got the idea of the template from this repo: 
https://github.com/junichi11/netbeans-wordpress-plugin/issues/new

Feel free to discuss, tell me what you think or give some other hints. This 
will not catch all 100% but hopefully most of them and if someone will not use 
the template, we can close the ticket and thats it. This is not rude, because 
they did it by their own. It is not perfect and I think there is a better way 
but yeah for the first run, it should be good enough to go. If someone has more 
Rights for that, please add it into jira. If no one knows how to do it, I can 
google and will let you know then.


Cheers

Chris

AW: Activating project type features in different project type

[Christian Lenz]

Hey Jakub,

that sounds nice and could be more easy maybe. But sometimes you don’t have a 
nbproject folder, because of using package.json or pom.xml and opening this 
project w/o creating a nbproject folder. If we Always have a nbproject Folder, 
then I would say this could be nice, because „switching“ a project type, is 
more an advanced way of doing. But again to say, I don’t want to Restart my IDE 
everytime I switch the project. So a reload inside of the project to reload a 
project could be nice too.

Ok here is a little summary:
First:
• Switch the project-type w/o reopening NetBeans (As discussed, switching 
project types doesn’t make that much sense, but could be an MVP maybe?)
• After switching the project type and maybe set it as default, reload the 
project to not reopen netbeans.

Second:
• Activating/Deactivating project features for different projecttypes (Full 
HTML5 inside of Maven)
• Question: What will happen when you want to build? What is the project with 
the higher prio?
• UI will be a mess if you mixed all actions and properties for maven and HTML5 
or other project-types

So we have some things to clarify here, because at the and the UI after 
activating features is what the users see. Maybe this could work for activating 
featues for Multi Projects:

Project Properties
  Maven
…
…
…
HTML5/JS – Whatever
…
…
…

Both should be collapsable.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Jakub Herkel
Gesendet: Freitag, 1. Februar 2019 14:33
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Activating project type features in different project type

Maybe it was discussed before, but cannot we add some optional properties
(file) to a directory that contains a project (or located it for example in
nbproject dir) and later check presence of this property in isProject
method?

I mean something like this :

 public @Override boolean isProject(FileObject fileObject) {

if (PREFERED_PROJECT_TYPE exists and PREFERED_PROJECT_TYPE is not
maven) {
return false;
}
File project = new File(projectDir, "pom.xml"); // NOI18N
if (!project.isFile()) {
return false;
}



For the start we can update only maven project and other types of project
we can update later (per request)

Jakub

On Wed, Jan 23, 2019 at 10:38 AM Christian Lenz 
wrote:

> Hey Attila,
>
> thx for the info.
>
> As mentioned, I have the same with the Puppet plugin. I only wanted to use
> the plugin  for syntax highlighting pp files and some other features, but
> it finds the vagrant.pp and init.pp file and changes the project type to a
> puppet project, which makes the project unusable as a HTML5 project. See
> here the ticket: https://github.com/tropyx/NetBeansPuppet/issues/27.
>
> So again, there is the feature of activating/deactivating NodeJS support
> for a HTML5 project, which changes the Icon and I think some of behaviours.
> So why not activating/deactivating other project features? Like Maven or
> Gradle or whatever? Yes maybe the background process could be a problem.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> Von: Attila Kelemen
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. Januar 2019 16:49
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: Activating project type features in different project type
>
> Actually, I have had mutliple complaints about this in the past. Almost
> always (the exceptions were, when there are multiple build tools
> temporarily, due to porting between build tools), the issue was the
> presence of the `package.json` (implying a particular project type). That
> said, I don't know who this could be safely changed in NB. If it were only
> this JS project type, then I guess there is not much conflict because there
> could be a wrapper for `Project` merging all project types volunteering to
> accept that project. However, if it is say Ant+Maven+Gradle, then they will
> have lots of conflicting queries on the project lookup. If the user could
> essentially change whose lookup is proxied, then it might work in theory
> but who knows what backgroud process may break because it assumes project
> type permanence. Though I could say, that I tried to not rely on that, I
> saw in many plugins that this is not usually the case and people heavily
> build on the assumption (implicitly) that project types do not change.
>
> So, I'm not very optimistic that this could be changed. Making a special
> case for JS projects seem more plausible.
>
> Attila Kelemen
>
> Emilian Bold  ezt írta (időpont: 2019. jan. 22.,
> K,
> 10:13):
>
> > > At the end, I need to find a proper solution for that, I can’t be the
> > only one who has this problem. I already have it with 3 projects.
> >
> > You are literally the only one t

AW: Help, JavaScript fans! was: Use Graal.js (parser) for NetBeans 11

[Christian Lenz]

Hey Jaroslav,

I have a Question About this test here: 
https://builds.apache.org/job/incubator-netbeans-jsparser/6/testReport/org.netbeans.modules.javascript2.editor/JsCodeCompletionES6Test/testClassName01/

Does that mean, that graal can’t handle ES6 atm or do I understand smth wrong? 
Because the expected result should be „CLASS“ but the completion says it is 
„VARIABLE“.

Can you help me here to understand that?


Cheers

Chris



Von: Jaroslav Tulach
Gesendet: Dienstag, 29. Januar 2019 15:33
An: Apache NetBeans
Betreff: Re: Help, JavaScript fans! was: Use Graal.js (parser) for NetBeans 11

Hail JavaScript!

One of the common questions is how many of those more than six hundred
failures are related to switch of the parser from Nashorn to Graal.js. To
answer that question I have set another job up:

https://builds.apache.org/job/incubator-netbeans-jsparser-tests/

it does the same test as

https://builds.apache.org/job/incubator-netbeans-jsparser/
<https://builds.apache.org/job/incubator-netbeans-jsparser/lastCompletedBuild/testReport/org.netbeans.modules.javascript2.sdoc/SDocCompletionDocumentationTest/testCompletionDocumentation01/>

but it takes the sources from master branch. There seems to be 129 failures
in the master branch. That is a lot and it would be nice to fix them, but...

It means that there is more than five hundred failures that are somehow
related to the parser change. I assume that means the branch isn't in
mergable state right now. Your help is needed!

Fix a test! Make NetBeans better!
-jt

pá 25. 1. 2019 v 19:38 odesílatel Geertjan Wielenga
 napsal:

> Investigated the ones starting with this one (there are 11 others) but
> couldn't figure it out:
>
>
> https://builds.apache.org/job/incubator-netbeans-jsparser/lastCompletedBuild/testReport/org.netbeans.modules.javascript2.sdoc/SDocCompletionDocumentationTest/testCompletionDocumentation01/
>
> Gj
>
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 3:59 PM Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Would it be true to say that the majority, or at least many, of these
> > failing tests were already failing before the introduction of the
> Graal.js
> > parser?
> >
> > Gj
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 3:50 PM Geertjan Wielenga <
> > geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Well, that issue probably doesn't make sense since we're checking in
> >> directly into Svata's repo, right?
> >>
> >> Anyway, let me know if this makes sense, if not, tell me how to do it
> >> differently:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://github.com/sdedic/incubator-netbeans/commit/908659392359671f7166566294b20c14e8d71232
> >>
> >> Gj
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 2:51 PM Geertjan Wielenga <
> >> geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Not sure if there is an issue yet for fixing the failing tests, created
> >>> it and will be referencing this in my pull requests:
> >>>
> >>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-1990
> >>>
> >>> Gj
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 2:37 PM Christian Lenz  >
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Will try to help on the weekend. Maybe.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers
> >>>>
> >>>> Chris
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Von: Jaroslav Tulach
> >>>> Gesendet: Freitag, 25. Januar 2019 13:18
> >>>> An: Apache NetBeans
> >>>> Cc: Svata Dedic
> >>>> Betreff: Help, JavaScript fans! was: Use Graal.js (parser) for
> NetBeans
> >>>> 11
> >>>>
> >>>> I assume there is a lot of people interested in support of modern
> >>>> JavaScript, right? We need you help:
> >>>>
> >>>> čt 24. 1. 2019 v 5:59 odesílatel Jaroslav Tulach <
> >>>> jaroslav.tul...@oracle.com>
> >>>> napsal:
> >>>> >
> >>>> > The PR-1011 is in.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Somebody needs to start working on rewriting the `webcommon/
> >>>> > javascript2.editor/` to use the parser in `webcommon.libs.graaljs`.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Sváťa created a PR:
> >>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/1099,
> >>>> but it cannot be merged until the code is rewritten to use the new
> >>>> version
> >>>> of the parser and work correctly

AW: nebeans.apache.org is missing what Apache NetBeans

[Christian Lenz]

IMHO, yes we should leave it as it is, only do the things what is needed for 
the transition of the tutorials and stuff. And hopefully soon, I got the result 
from David, I will share it with you and we can discuss/decide, etc. It is up 
to david, when he has time.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. Januar 2019 14:44
An: dev
Betreff: Re: nebeans.apache.org is missing what Apache NetBeans

OK. So, Chris and David, what is the plan in terms of timelines for the new
design? I think we should leave the website the way it is now, until we
have your new design, unless that will take a long time, in which case we
should finetune it further in the meantime.

Gj

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 2:15 PM Eric Barboni  wrote:

> Erg to slow
>
>  The content is presenting information but IMHO using the gray square hide
> the message. It's seems to me as aside and not main content.
>
> Very subjective changes that make me feel better getting information
> (textual prototype)
>
> Welcome to Apache NetBeans: The Smarter and Faster Way to Code (header3)
>
>   Fast & Smart Editing (header4)
> |
>  Paragraph
>|   Nice Screenshot (or caroussel of screenshot hope
> jbake is able to do that)
>   Java, JavaScript, PHP, HTML5, CSS, and More  (header4)  |
>  Paragraph
>|
>   Cross Platform   (header4)
> |
>  Paragraph
>
>  GRAYED squared with additional  inside
>
> Regards
> Eric
> PS: as I'm too slow but  I agree on comment of Chris slider decoy
>
> -Message d'origine-
> De : Geertjan Wielenga 
> Envoyé : jeudi 31 janvier 2019 13:18
> À : dev 
> Objet : Re: nebeans.apache.org is missing what Apache NetBeans
>
> OK, but what do you think what's been added over the last hour or so?
>
> Gj
>
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 1:15 PM Eric Barboni  wrote:
>
> > I would say something like that (not to be copy pasted) with a
> > screnshot somewhere but in a normal text:
> >
> > ---
> > Welcome to Apache NetBeans project. Apache NetBeans is an IDE
> > (integrated development environment) build with java. Apache NetBeans
> > IDE allow to develop "out of the box" application in  java,
> > javascript, php, javaee, html 5, mobile, groovy and more .
> >
> > Apache NetBeans is modular an can be extended by plugins (link to
> > http://netbeans.apache.org/plugins/index.html)
> >
> > Apache NetBeans is also a platform you can use to make your own
> > application (http://netbeans.apache.org/help/getting-started.html)
> >
> > Join us on twitter,facebook ...
> >
> > Apache NetBeans is incubating at Apache Software Foundation
> > 
> >
> > I remember also "Fits the Pieces Together"
> >
> >
> > -Message d'origine-
> > De : Geertjan Wielenga 
> > Envoyé : jeudi 31 janvier 2019 11:57
> > À : dev 
> > Objet : Re: nebeans.apache.org is missing what Apache NetBeans
> >
> > OK, sure, what should it say?
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 11:23 AM Eric Barboni  wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I find (in fact student I asked to get Netbeans :p) the landing page
> > > at netbeans.apache.org is not telling user what is Apache NetBeans.
> > >
> > > Would it be possible to add a few words in the layout (between
> > > caroussel and the card). With a nice agnostic (no java centric)
> > > presentation.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Eric
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

AW: nebeans.apache.org is missing what Apache NetBeans

[Christian Lenz]

To the slider, the slider is not a good way. first if you come to the page, you 
can’t see which Version of NetBeans is new. It is so fast, you Need to hover 
with the mouse to stop the slider. As I mentioned, I’m waiting for the Infos, 
but the slider shouldn’t be the first eye catcher on this page. There are some 
disadvantages of using a slider.

Back in the days of the old netbeans page. The eyecatcher was the DIE, not 
moving around. The news and features where down below. But we can do it better.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. Januar 2019 12:08
An: dev
Betreff: Re: nebeans.apache.org is missing what Apache NetBeans

I think the slider on netbeans.apache.org should have the same content as
is currently in the slider on netbeans.org.

If someone tells me where the slider content is defined, I'll make the
changes.

Thanks,

Gj


On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 11:57 AM Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> OK, sure, what should it say?
>
> Gj
>
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 11:23 AM Eric Barboni  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I find (in fact student I asked to get Netbeans :p) the landing page at
>> netbeans.apache.org is not telling user what is Apache NetBeans.
>>
>> Would it be possible to add a few words in the layout (between caroussel
>> and
>> the card). With a nice agnostic (no java centric) presentation.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>

AW: nebeans.apache.org is missing what Apache NetBeans

[Christian Lenz]

Hey All,

I had a meeting, I think 2 weeks ago with my beloved UX/UI David. I’m still 
waiting for the proposals for a better looking frontpage.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. Januar 2019 12:59
An: dev
Betreff: Re: nebeans.apache.org is missing what Apache NetBeans

I think the front page is very wordy, while NetBeans is a visual tool -- if
there's a way somehow we can display a screenshot of NetBeans on the front
page, that would probably be best.

Gj

On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 12:48 PM Geertjan Wielenga <
geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> I made several changes! What do you (all) think:
> https://netbeans.apache.org/
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gj
>
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 12:11 PM Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Actually, I propose we changed 'Community', 'Participate', and 'Download'
>> to some of the items that are in the slider on netbeans.org.
>>
>> Gj
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 12:07 PM Geertjan Wielenga <
>> geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think the slider on netbeans.apache.org should have the same content
>>> as is currently in the slider on netbeans.org.
>>>
>>> If someone tells me where the slider content is defined, I'll make the
>>> changes.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Gj
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 11:57 AM Geertjan Wielenga <
>>> geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>
 OK, sure, what should it say?

 Gj

 On Thu, Jan 31, 2019 at 11:23 AM Eric Barboni  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I find (in fact student I asked to get Netbeans :p) the landing page at
> netbeans.apache.org is not telling user what is Apache NetBeans.
>
> Would it be possible to add a few words in the layout (between
> caroussel and
> the card). With a nice agnostic (no java centric) presentation.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Eric
>
>

AW: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

[Christian Lenz]

➢ If someone really wants more than 2 releases this year, then they really
➢ need to take on at least the two activities above.

Yes, I know and I will, I Need to find some time to do it.


➢ Totally disagree.  NB  __IS__ Java -- not PHP, not JS.  That plugins
➢ can be written to allow NB to do wonderful things for those other
➢ languages is irrelevant to NB versioning.

No, NetBeans not Java, NetBeans is everything what NetBeans supports out of the 
box. PHP, C/C++, JS, HTML/CSS etc. are core Plugins. Yes they are plugins but 
they are part of the core. And they are Plugins, because NetBeans is module 
based. Nothing of them is related to the Version. Neither the Java 
implementation nor the other core Plugins.


Cheers

Chris


Von: Chuck Davis
Gesendet: Sonntag, 27. Januar 2019 22:42
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 10:28 AM Christian Lenz  wrote:
>
> TLDR;
> Please everyone, go away from Connection JDK/Java with NetBeans. NetBeans is 
> for years an IDE for a lot more languages. Java should not anymore the main 
> Language that is full featured supported in NetBeans than others that 
> NetBeans supports out of the box. First NetBeans can handle PHP very well, 
> better than JS or other Frameworks like Angularjs, Angular, React or 
> unfortunately Vue which is not supported. It can handle HTML/CSS/LESS/SCSS 
> and C/C++ and Assembler too. NetBeans is an IDE not only for Java developer 
> anymore.
>
> Yes, I can understand that binding was in the past but that doesn’t make 
> sense anymore nowadays.

Totally disagree.  NB  __IS__ Java -- not PHP, not JS.  That plugins
can be written to allow NB to do wonderful things for those other
languages is irrelevant to NB versioning.

As a developer I want to know that with NB20 I can use all the
features of JDK20 in my code.  Java will be changing significantly in
the future.  We need to remember that code written for JDK 11 will not
run, in many instances, on JDK 8.  Should that be reflected in NB
numbering?  Me thinks so.  At least I would like it so.  Without that
relationship developers will be required to do research to find out
what features can be used with the version of NB they may be planning
to use.

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AW: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

[Christian Lenz]

I agree with march and september for major, but not for having „optional“ minor 
releases or not. I don’t know whether we need another thread for that or not, I 
mean we already had that.

I know we can handle it with less process for the minor releases, as I said it 
somewhere in the mailing list, the biggest problem is still the transition 
phase and it will be less work after the transition. We have now over 2000 
tickets open. Some are nonsense maybe, user related Problems, invalid stuff, 
bugs, feature requests etc. So yes we should have minor releases and not think 
about to not having them. There is always work todo.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Sonntag, 27. Januar 2019 19:48
An: dev
Betreff: Re: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

Absolutely agree.

However, we do need to release at specific points in the time/space
continuum, don't we?

Here is the proposal for when those points could be this year:

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+Release+Roadmap

March and September are two specific points in the time/space continuum. If
you disagree with those months, please suggest two other ones.

In addition, there are two other months listed in the proposal above -- for
the moment, I'd humbly suggest that we don't commit ourselves too strongly
to four releases, that is really a lot, though it is something to strive
for.

So, if, for the moment, we aim at two releases at least, with the first of
these already set for March, when would you like the other of the two to
be? How about 6 months later, for the one that we are sure about, let's say
September?

Now, it turns out that those are the months in which the JDK will be
released this year, JDK 11 and JDK 12. That's very convenient, since this
provides the opportunity for JDK vendors to consider the possibility of
co-operating or bundling with NetBeans in one way or another.

Hope the above makes sense, if not, please specify your points in the
time/space continuum of 2019 when you propose we should do our releases
this year.

Thanks,

Gj


On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 7:40 PM Emilian Bold  wrote:

> > Please everyone, go away from Connection JDK/Java with NetBeans.
> NetBeans is for years an IDE for a lot more languages. [...]
> > Yes, I can understand that binding was in the past but that doesn’t make
> sense anymore nowadays.
>
> +1
>
> --emi
>
> On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 8:28 PM Christian Lenz 
> wrote:
> >
> > TLDR;
> > Please everyone, go away from Connection JDK/Java with NetBeans.
> NetBeans is for years an IDE for a lot more languages. Java should not
> anymore the main Language that is full featured supported in NetBeans than
> others that NetBeans supports out of the box. First NetBeans can handle PHP
> very well, better than JS or other Frameworks like Angularjs, Angular,
> React or unfortunately Vue which is not supported. It can handle
> HTML/CSS/LESS/SCSS and C/C++ and Assembler too. NetBeans is an IDE not only
> for Java developer anymore.
> >
> > Yes, I can understand that binding was in the past but that doesn’t make
> sense anymore nowadays.
> >
> >
> > Major versions like 10.0, 11.0 or 12.0 (or which Version we will have
> later) will include a lot more features with NetCat and 11.1 and 12.1 will
> implement more new Features too but I think with less NetCat (I don’t know,
> only guessing, otherwise we will have no real gain for that). I only want
> to add, to this, that we want 4 releases a year, to be competitve. I only
> write this to make it clear that 11 is Major with Jakarta I think, C/C++
> (Maybe, don’t remember the Roadmap) Bug fixes and misc Features. And 11.1
> will have Features and bug fixes too and is not a patch. Patches where,
> from the history perspective different from 8.0 to 8.1. Please remember 8.2
> had 2 patches and we are not Talking About 8.3 or 8.4, because only
> critical bug fixes after the release.
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > Von: Neil C Smith
> > Gesendet: Sonntag, 27. Januar 2019 19:03
> > An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > Betreff: Re: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?
> >
> > On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 at 12:51, Geertjan Wielenga
> >  wrote:
> > > Well, since there are two releases of the JDK this here, neatly
> > > interspersed in March and September, it seems like a logical approach
> to
> > > follow, with the benefit that we could potentially end up having
> NetBeans
> > > bundles with a JDK, if the stars align. The stars are less likely to
> align
> > > if we completely ignore those specific months -- sure, we could
> release in
> > > July and December instead, but why? March and September are as good as
> any,
> > > and better than most, because 

AW: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

[Christian Lenz]

TLDR;
Please everyone, go away from Connection JDK/Java with NetBeans. NetBeans is 
for years an IDE for a lot more languages. Java should not anymore the main 
Language that is full featured supported in NetBeans than others that NetBeans 
supports out of the box. First NetBeans can handle PHP very well, better than 
JS or other Frameworks like Angularjs, Angular, React or unfortunately Vue 
which is not supported. It can handle HTML/CSS/LESS/SCSS and C/C++ and 
Assembler too. NetBeans is an IDE not only for Java developer anymore.

Yes, I can understand that binding was in the past but that doesn’t make sense 
anymore nowadays.


Major versions like 10.0, 11.0 or 12.0 (or which Version we will have later) 
will include a lot more features with NetCat and 11.1 and 12.1 will implement 
more new Features too but I think with less NetCat (I don’t know, only 
guessing, otherwise we will have no real gain for that). I only want to add, to 
this, that we want 4 releases a year, to be competitve. I only write this to 
make it clear that 11 is Major with Jakarta I think, C/C++ (Maybe, don’t 
remember the Roadmap) Bug fixes and misc Features. And 11.1 will have Features 
and bug fixes too and is not a patch. Patches where, from the history 
perspective different from 8.0 to 8.1. Please remember 8.2 had 2 patches and we 
are not Talking About 8.3 or 8.4, because only critical bug fixes after the 
release.


Cheers

Chris


Von: Neil C Smith
Gesendet: Sonntag, 27. Januar 2019 19:03
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

On Sun, 27 Jan 2019 at 12:51, Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:
> Well, since there are two releases of the JDK this here, neatly
> interspersed in March and September, it seems like a logical approach to
> follow, with the benefit that we could potentially end up having NetBeans
> bundles with a JDK, if the stars align. The stars are less likely to align
> if we completely ignore those specific months -- sure, we could release in
> July and December instead, but why? March and September are as good as any,
> and better than most, because of the JDK release cycle.

Completely agree with you there - I was in favour of doing this and
keeping the version numbers synced for same reason.

On the other hand, the major/minor thing seems odd from a time-based
release schedule, which is where the idea for quarterly releases came
from.  The projects that I can think of that do that generally
publicise feature freeze and release dates well in advance (a year),
possibly have a "release-ready" master branch, don't guarantee
features until feature freeze date, and if a feature isn't ready it
misses that release.  AFAIK the NB10 without .0 came from the idea
that 2019 releases would be NB11, NB12, NB13 and NB14 - no sense that
one is more important than another.

At the moment, for example, NB11 mentions J2EE support, but playing
devils advocate what happens if that misses the release schedule?
Does that mean NB11 is delayed, or that J2EE now comes in a point
release, or that NB11.1 now becomes NB12?  That's what I mean about
the release page feeling somewhere stuck between time-based and
feature-based.

Anyway, as someone with not much time to put into the project right at
this moment, I'm not arguing either way - just saying that it still
appears a source of confusion.

Best wishes,

Neil

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AW: Help, JavaScript fans! was: Use Graal.js (parser) for NetBeans 11

[Christian Lenz]

Will try to help on the weekend. Maybe.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Jaroslav Tulach
Gesendet: Freitag, 25. Januar 2019 13:18
An: Apache NetBeans
Cc: Svata Dedic
Betreff: Help, JavaScript fans! was: Use Graal.js (parser) for NetBeans 11

I assume there is a lot of people interested in support of modern
JavaScript, right? We need you help:

čt 24. 1. 2019 v 5:59 odesílatel Jaroslav Tulach 
napsal:
>
> The PR-1011 is in.
>
> Somebody needs to start working on rewriting the `webcommon/
> javascript2.editor/` to use the parser in `webcommon.libs.graaljs`.



Sváťa created a PR: https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/1099,
but it cannot be merged until the code is rewritten to use the new version
of the parser and work correctly. There is a Jenkins job that tracks the
status:

https://builds.apache.org/job/incubator-netbeans-jsparser/

Right now we have 693 failures. Please help us fix them. The instructions
are given in the job description, and it should be fairly easy. Get the
repository:

git clone https://github.com/sdedic/incubator-netbeans.git
cd incubator-netbeans
git checkout experimental/graaljs_parser

and then build it all and check the tests:

ant build
for i in webcommon/*; do
  (cd $i; ant test-unit -Dcontinue.after.failing.tests=true)
done

You can open any module under webcommon in the NetBeans IDE, select a test
and run or debug it.

If you care about JavaScript, please help: Fix a test. Make NetBeans better!
-jt



> Dne neděle 13. ledna 2019 5:24:04 CET, Jaroslav Tulach napsal(a):
> > Hello Emilian, Matthias & everyone.
> >
> > Dne sobota 12. ledna 2019 9:38:53 CET, Emilian Bold napsal(a):
> > > I see the parser source is here
> > >
> https://github.com/graalvm/graaljs/tree/master/graal-js/src/com.oracle.js.
> > > pa rser but it's not compiled as an independent JAR available in Maven
> > > Central. Could the GraalVM project do this?
> > >
> > > The whole org.graalvm.js:js seems pretty big and has many
> > > dependencies. We just need the parser.
> >
> > Let's consider this in the context of 371465581f2011 and PR-1011 and
> > NETBEANS-1009.
> >
> > #1 - Nashorn isn't the future of JavaScript engines on JDK. We will need
> > another engine anyway in the future.
> >
> > #2 - Emilian commented in PR-1011 that using Graal.js from bootclasspath
> > isn't appropriate
> >
> > #3 - We need parts of Graal.js anyway for the editing support
> >
> > #4 - OracleLabs (my employer) supports wider use of Graal.js
> >
> > When I look at the parser issue from a broader perspective, I propose to:
> >
> > * modify PR-1011 to bundle whole Graal.js and necessary libraries
> >
> > that will solve #1, #2, #4. Then we need another PR to modify the
> JavaScript
> > editing infrastructure to use the new version of the Graal.js parser. I
> was
> > hoping Svatopluk Dědic could take care of that, but as he is busy with
> > other tasks, help from community would be more than welcomed. Anyone
> > interested in supporting EcmaScript7 features (syntax of which the newest
> > version of Graal.js handles) in NetBeans?
> >
> > I'll work on modifying the PR-1011 to include Graal.js as a library on
> > Monday, next week.
> > -jt
>
>
>
>
>
> -
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> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

AW: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

[Christian Lenz]

+1 for calver. (Yearh.month)


Cheers

Chris



Von: Neil C Smith
Gesendet: Freitag, 25. Januar 2019 10:41
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

On Fri, 25 Jan 2019 at 09:12, Tomas Poledny  wrote:
> I don't like calendar versioning. I have problem with remember it. It is
> more easy to remember 11 or 11.0 than 2019.03. What will be next version
> 2019.02 or 2019.03 or 2019.04 and what was previous version?
>
> So +1 for 11.0

Yes, +1 for 11.0, 12.0, 13.0 for me, for the same reasons.  And just
referring to it as NetBeans 11, NetBeans 12, etc. on website, splash,
etc.  I really don't understand the argument this caused with NetBeans
10 here if .1, .2, etc. are only intended to be patch releases?  And
that's the question I don't think we've really answered yet - if we're
moving to time-based releases are all releases treated equal?  Are all
point releases just bug fixes *on the release branch*?

-0 on date releases - not against it, but have a few questions if that
went ahead.  Can all our infrastructure manage that well?  eg. do we
use that in publishing platform artefacts to Maven, or do we end up
using multiple version schemes?  What happens when like NB 10 we need
to delay a release for a blocker - do we end up having to rename
2018-10-rc to 2018-12?  Is there any significance to a change from
2019.x to 2020.x?  Does it change how we integrate NetCAT?

I can't decide whether this thread is cosmetic bike-shedding or quite
fundamental at the moment! ;-)

Best wishes,

Neil

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AW: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

[Christian Lenz]

Sure, but as you can see, we have different opinions about that. I mean if it 
is that simple, we can now start a vote for the suggestions?


Cheers

Chris



Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Freitag, 25. Januar 2019 09:30
An: dev
Betreff: Re: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

I think whatever is super simple and clear is what we should do and
therefore I really like Emilian's suggestion.

We spend more time and energy discussing release numbering than anything
else and the sooner that can stop the better. :-)

Gj

On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 9:28 AM Christian Lenz 
wrote:

> And for the codenames, I mean 2019.03 could have also a moon chemical
> thing like Natrium or whatever. For me it is more to say and, instead of or.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> Von: Kenneth Fogel
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Januar 2019 20:44
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: RE: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?
>
> We could use seemingly random words like Eclipse does so that no one knows
> what the most recent version is. For example, we could use the names of the
> 63 moons of Jupiter, the planet with the most moons. Also, select them
> randomly, users will catch on if we do it alphabetically. Here are the 51
> named moons:
>
> AdrasteaErinome Isonoe  Sponde
> Aitne   Euanthe KaleTaygete
> AmaltheaEukeladeKallichore  Thebe
> Ananke  Euporie Kalyke  Thelxinoe
> Aoede   Europa  KoreThemisto
> Arche   EurydomeLedaThyone
> Autonoe GanymedeLysithea
> Callirrhoe  Harpalyke   Megaclite
> CallistoHegemoneMetis
> Carme   Helike  Mneme
> Carpo   HermippeOrthosie
> ChaldeneHerse   Pasiphae
> Cyllene Himalia Pasithee
> Dia Io  Praxidike
> Elara   Iocaste Sinope
>
> There are about 12 more moons with numeric names awaiting formal names.
>
> Ken
>
>
>

AW: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

[Christian Lenz]

And for the codenames, I mean 2019.03 could have also a moon chemical thing 
like Natrium or whatever. For me it is more to say and, instead of or.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Kenneth Fogel
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Januar 2019 20:44
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: RE: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

We could use seemingly random words like Eclipse does so that no one knows what 
the most recent version is. For example, we could use the names of the 63 moons 
of Jupiter, the planet with the most moons. Also, select them randomly, users 
will catch on if we do it alphabetically. Here are the 51 named moons:

AdrasteaErinome Isonoe  Sponde
Aitne   Euanthe KaleTaygete
AmaltheaEukeladeKallichore  Thebe
Ananke  Euporie Kalyke  Thelxinoe
Aoede   Europa  KoreThemisto
Arche   EurydomeLedaThyone
Autonoe GanymedeLysithea
Callirrhoe  Harpalyke   Megaclite   
CallistoHegemoneMetis   
Carme   Helike  Mneme   
Carpo   HermippeOrthosie
ChaldeneHerse   Pasiphae
Cyllene Himalia Pasithee
Dia Io  Praxidike   
Elara   Iocaste Sinope  

There are about 12 more moons with numeric names awaiting formal names.

Ken

AW: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

[Christian Lenz]

And we also have a commit About it: 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/911/commits/9c9e4fb0ab6a3cd26161d2c088057581f8bd995f

Message: [NETBEANS-1067] Release number should be 10, not 10.0, so new commit



Von: Christian Lenz
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Januar 2019 19:18
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: AW: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

10.0 was not used for the Images like the Splash screen and the About Dialog.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Januar 2019 19:09
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

Well, we used 10.0 the last time, so why not 11.0 now. I still don’t really
understand why though, or why it matters, but I’ll support either way.

Gj

On Thursday, January 24, 2019, Laszlo Kishalmi 
wrote:

> Well, all I'm seeking is the consensus here. I have  pro-s for both of
> them.
>
> What about, if I start two voting threads on each version and whichever
> got the most +1 in three days will win?
>
> (I know it is a kind of pity, but sometimes small things matter.)
>
> On 1/23/19 10:41 PM, Laszlo Kishalmi wrote:
>
>> Well, probably it is the right time to decide: 11 or 11.0 ?
>>
>>
> -
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>
>
>
>

AW: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

[Christian Lenz]

10.0 was not used for the Images like the Splash screen and the About Dialog.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Januar 2019 19:09
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

Well, we used 10.0 the last time, so why not 11.0 now. I still don’t really
understand why though, or why it matters, but I’ll support either way.

Gj

On Thursday, January 24, 2019, Laszlo Kishalmi 
wrote:

> Well, all I'm seeking is the consensus here. I have  pro-s for both of
> them.
>
> What about, if I start two voting threads on each version and whichever
> got the most +1 in three days will win?
>
> (I know it is a kind of pity, but sometimes small things matter.)
>
> On 1/23/19 10:41 PM, Laszlo Kishalmi wrote:
>
>> Well, probably it is the right time to decide: 11 or 11.0 ?
>>
>>
> -
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>
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>
>
>
>

AW: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

[Christian Lenz]

Yeah, let’s vote. 



Von: Laszlo Kishalmi
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Januar 2019 18:53
An: Apache NetBeans
Betreff: Re: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

Well, all I'm seeking is the consensus here. I have  pro-s for both of them.

What about, if I start two voting threads on each version and whichever 
got the most +1 in three days will win?

(I know it is a kind of pity, but sometimes small things matter.)

On 1/23/19 10:41 PM, Laszlo Kishalmi wrote:
> Well, probably it is the right time to decide: 11 or 11.0 ?
>

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AW: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

[Christian Lenz]

I’m also fine with calender, I only wanted to say if we decide using the 0 at 
the end or not, we should be consistent. This was the point until 10. Sometimes 
we spoke About 10 sometimes we spoke About 10.0 there is written 10 there is 
written 10.0. Whatever we decide of 11, 11.0 or 2019.03 we should be consistent 
everywhere.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Emilian Bold
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Januar 2019 18:01
An: NetBeans Dev@
Betreff: Re: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

>From a branding perspective, 10 and 11 sound better. 'NetBeans 10',
'NetBeans 11' is like a big, memorable release.

'NetBeans 11.0' underlines the work-in-progress nature of it. (Of
course, after 11.0 there must be a 11.1?)

I think calendar versioning (there's even a site for it
https://calver.org/ ) is a much better approach. IntelliJ is using it
and I'm also using it for CoolBeans.

Semantic versioning (https://semver.org/ ) is also good, but too
technical in a way.

Speaking of calendar versioning, it wouldn't have been good for
NetBeans 8.2. How would users feel about still using in 2019 'NetBeans
2016.12'? Doesn't sound very fresh, right? But if you *do* want to
show that this is new, using 'NetBeans 2019.03' sounds really good!

Of course, my 2c, no strong feelings about it. Just have a vote, and
whatever wins wins.

--emi

http://coolbeans.xyz/ - CoolBeans: An IDE for Java, JavaEE, PHP and more!

On Thu, Jan 24, 2019 at 6:42 PM Neil C Smith  wrote:
>
> On Thu, 24 Jan 2019, 14:45 Christian Lenz 
> > Still from my point of view, there was no reason from switching from 9.0
> > to 10 (and not to 10.0).
> >
>
> In which case you missed the point I was trying to make. There *was* a
> reason! 8.0, 8.1 and 8.2 were hardly minor - the 8 just referred to Java 8.
> There was a discussion about moving away from sync with Java versions and
> just incrementing the number for every release (Firefox, Chrome, JDK
> style). That was the reason for dropping the zero, because 10.1 could also
> have just been NB10 patch 1.
>
> Now whether everyone is on the same page about that versioning scheme is
> another matter. Don't think you can answer this thread without being sure
> of that. Maybe a vote is required?
>
> Either seems fine to me, as long as we can all have the same answer to
> explain it when asked! ;-)
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
> >

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AW: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

[Christian Lenz]

Sry for adding 3 mails in a row and not adding it into one, but smth else came 
into my mind. IntelliJ makes it different. They have 4 releases a year and they 
call it like the quarterly releases 2019.1, 2019.2 etc. I don’t want to say 
that I would prefer this way, I only wanted to say they don’t release only 2019 
(patch 1 or whatever).


Cheers

Chris 



Von: Christian Lenz
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Januar 2019 17:52
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: AW: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

Hey Neil,

There was no 8, there was 8.0 and it was not a minor, it was the major release 
after 7.3. 8.1 was minor but still with new features + bug fixes etc. So no 
patch. 8.2 had 2 patches which were 8.2 patch 1 and 8.2 patch 2.

I don’t remember which other software does this but if patch means 8.2.1 and 
8.2.2 Im more welcome because everyone should know about the versioning in 
Software. 10 is 10.0 but 10 is not 10.1 and not 10 patch 1. Maybe it could be 
10.1 patch 1 or 10.1.1 if we are only talking About bug fixes.

Will point a link to wiki, for versioning here: 
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versionsnummer (german version).
And Chrome also have this: 71.0.3578.98

So if we will have critical bug fixes for NB 10, it will be 10.0.1 IMHO.


Cheers

Chris


Von: Neil C Smith
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Januar 2019 17:42
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019, 14:45 Christian Lenz  Still from my point of view, there was no reason from switching from 9.0
> to 10 (and not to 10.0).
>

In which case you missed the point I was trying to make. There *was* a
reason! 8.0, 8.1 and 8.2 were hardly minor - the 8 just referred to Java 8.
There was a discussion about moving away from sync with Java versions and
just incrementing the number for every release (Firefox, Chrome, JDK
style). That was the reason for dropping the zero, because 10.1 could also
have just been NB10 patch 1.

Now whether everyone is on the same page about that versioning scheme is
another matter. Don't think you can answer this thread without being sure
of that. Maybe a vote is required?

Either seems fine to me, as long as we can all have the same answer to
explain it when asked! ;-)

Best wishes,

Neil

>

AW: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

[Christian Lenz]

Firefox is doing the same: 64.0.2. And I can remember, that they have FireFox 
64.0 and not 64: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/64.0/releasenotes/


Cheers

Chris 



Von: Christian Lenz
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Januar 2019 17:52
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: AW: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

Hey Neil,

There was no 8, there was 8.0 and it was not a minor, it was the major release 
after 7.3. 8.1 was minor but still with new features + bug fixes etc. So no 
patch. 8.2 had 2 patches which were 8.2 patch 1 and 8.2 patch 2.

I don’t remember which other software does this but if patch means 8.2.1 and 
8.2.2 Im more welcome because everyone should know about the versioning in 
Software. 10 is 10.0 but 10 is not 10.1 and not 10 patch 1. Maybe it could be 
10.1 patch 1 or 10.1.1 if we are only talking About bug fixes.

Will point a link to wiki, for versioning here: 
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versionsnummer (german version).
And Chrome also have this: 71.0.3578.98

So if we will have critical bug fixes for NB 10, it will be 10.0.1 IMHO.


Cheers

Chris


Von: Neil C Smith
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Januar 2019 17:42
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019, 14:45 Christian Lenz  Still from my point of view, there was no reason from switching from 9.0
> to 10 (and not to 10.0).
>

In which case you missed the point I was trying to make. There *was* a
reason! 8.0, 8.1 and 8.2 were hardly minor - the 8 just referred to Java 8.
There was a discussion about moving away from sync with Java versions and
just incrementing the number for every release (Firefox, Chrome, JDK
style). That was the reason for dropping the zero, because 10.1 could also
have just been NB10 patch 1.

Now whether everyone is on the same page about that versioning scheme is
another matter. Don't think you can answer this thread without being sure
of that. Maybe a vote is required?

Either seems fine to me, as long as we can all have the same answer to
explain it when asked! ;-)

Best wishes,

Neil

>

AW: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

[Christian Lenz]

Hey Neil,

There was no 8, there was 8.0 and it was not a minor, it was the major release 
after 7.3. 8.1 was minor but still with new features + bug fixes etc. So no 
patch. 8.2 had 2 patches which were 8.2 patch 1 and 8.2 patch 2.

I don’t remember which other software does this but if patch means 8.2.1 and 
8.2.2 Im more welcome because everyone should know about the versioning in 
Software. 10 is 10.0 but 10 is not 10.1 and not 10 patch 1. Maybe it could be 
10.1 patch 1 or 10.1.1 if we are only talking About bug fixes.

Will point a link to wiki, for versioning here: 
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versionsnummer (german version).
And Chrome also have this: 71.0.3578.98

So if we will have critical bug fixes for NB 10, it will be 10.0.1 IMHO.


Cheers

Chris


Von: Neil C Smith
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Januar 2019 17:42
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019, 14:45 Christian Lenz  Still from my point of view, there was no reason from switching from 9.0
> to 10 (and not to 10.0).
>

In which case you missed the point I was trying to make. There *was* a
reason! 8.0, 8.1 and 8.2 were hardly minor - the 8 just referred to Java 8.
There was a discussion about moving away from sync with Java versions and
just incrementing the number for every release (Firefox, Chrome, JDK
style). That was the reason for dropping the zero, because 10.1 could also
have just been NB10 patch 1.

Now whether everyone is on the same page about that versioning scheme is
another matter. Don't think you can answer this thread without being sure
of that. Maybe a vote is required?

Either seems fine to me, as long as we can all have the same answer to
explain it when asked! ;-)

Best wishes,

Neil

>

AW: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

[Christian Lenz]

Maybe I missunderstand smth but we are talking only about removing the 0 or 
keep it. So like we have it until 10 now.
Still from my point of view, there was no reason from switching from 9.0 to 10 
(and not to 10.0). So why now? We already have to change the number to 11.1 if 
we implement new features. Don’t forget we already had 7.2.1 and I think it was 
not the patch. I mean I don’t care About with or w/o but if we decide to remove 
it, we should remove it everywhere and not only for the end customer. If we 
will keep it, then we should Keep it everywhere and not talking about internal 
and external.


Here is, what I can say of the history:

7.0 Major
7.1 Minor (With some Features)
7.2 Minor (With some Features)
7.2.1 Patch (Fixes

For 8, we have:

8.0 Major
8.1 Minor (With some Features)
8.2 Minor (With some Features)
8.2 Patch 1 (Still 8.2, not 8.2.1)
8.2 Patch 2 (Still 8.2, not 8.2.2)

Now under Apache, we have

9.0 (Major, w/ 0)
10 (Major, w/o 0) 
11 (Open discussion for 11 or 11.0)


Cheers

Chris


Von: Neil C Smith
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Januar 2019 15:33
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 at 13:56, Christian Lenz  wrote:
>
> +1 for 11.0 for almost everything. No Need to Change it from 7.0, 8.0, 9.0 to 
> 10 or 11. There was no reason for that of changing it. My 2 cents
>

Sorry, I disagree with that point.  NetBeans 8.0, 8.1 and 8.2 were
quite distinct releases with additions in functionality.  There was a
reason for changing it, with the idea of just incrementing the major
number for each release with additional functionality.  If that's
going to be the case then I don't think the patch number should be in
the splash, on the website, other public places etc. because that
means it has to be updated every time there's a bug fix release.

Personally, I have no strong opinion either way, but if a possible NB
11.1 in June is intended to be literally just a minor release, then
makes sense to keep the workload down and call this NB11 in a lot of
places.

2c

Best wishes,

Neil

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AW: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

[Christian Lenz]

+1 for 11.0 for almost everything. No Need to Change it from 7.0, 8.0, 9.0 to 
10 or 11. There was no reason for that of changing it. My 2 cents


Cheers

Chris



Von: Laszlo Kishalmi
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 24. Januar 2019 08:00
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Apache NetBeans 11 or 11.0 ?

Yes we might have a first minor/patch release inside of Apache as 11.1 
in June.

On 1/23/19 10:44 PM, Vano Beridze wrote:
> 11 patch 1,2,...?
>
> On Thu, Jan 24, 2019, 10:42 AM Laszlo Kishalmi  wrote:
>
>> Well, probably it is the right time to decide: 11 or 11.0 ?
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>

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AW: Gradle Support landed on master JIRA and NetCat updates are required

[Christian Lenz]

I’m also more of using one Plugin than multiple one. Both Plugins are now 
maintained and share similar functions and that can confuse the user what to 
use. I would prefer to merge both together if possible or whatever to not have 
2 plugins.


My 2 cents.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. Januar 2019 12:56
An: Emilian Bold
Cc: NetBeans Dev@; NetCAT team
Betreff: Re: Gradle Support landed on master JIRA and NetCat updates are 
required

Yes, I think we should have discussed this with Attila. Then again, I'm
assuming (maybe wrongly) that he was aware of this development and could
have chimed in. However, whatever the case, if someone prefers the other
plugin, they could uninstall the one by Laszlo and then install the one by
Attila. But ideally Attila and Lazlo would work together on the same
codebase of course. Maybe something from the one can be integrated into the
other, etc?

Gj


On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 10:45 PM Emilian Bold 
wrote:

> Maybe this was clarified but I'm curious how the feature list overlaps
> with Attila Kelemen's netbeans-gradle-project
> (https://github.com/kelemen/netbeans-gradle-project )
>
> The plugin seems to be quite actively maintained (2900 commits, last
> commit 7 days ago).
>
> So, what happens now that NetBeans has this separate Gradle plugin in
> master? Is there anything we could perhaps re-use from
> netbeans-gradle-project?
>
> Attila Kelemen is a former NetBeans Dream Team member and has been
> doing Groovy for a long time. I also see an email from 2017 where he
> mentioned he was willing to relicense the code in case Apache needs
> it.
>
> --emi
>
> http://coolbeans.xyz/ - CoolBeans: An IDE for Java, JavaEE, PHP and more!
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 10:08 PM Laszlo Kishalmi
>  wrote:
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > I've merged the Gradle Support into master. The first build with that:
> >
> >
> https://builds.apache.org/job/incubator-netbeans-linux/975/artifact/nbbuild/
> >
> > We need to add some components to our JIRA, unlike for Maven I'm
> > thinking of one component called: *gradle-support* and later on probably
> > gradle-javaee (or gradle-jakartaee whatever is trendy these days).
> >
> > Also we need to came up with new tests for NetCat team.
> >
> >
>
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>
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>
>

AW: Activating project type features in different project type

[Christian Lenz]

Hey Attila,

thx for the info.

As mentioned, I have the same with the Puppet plugin. I only wanted to use the 
plugin  for syntax highlighting pp files and some other features, but it finds 
the vagrant.pp and init.pp file and changes the project type to a puppet 
project, which makes the project unusable as a HTML5 project. See here the 
ticket: https://github.com/tropyx/NetBeansPuppet/issues/27.

So again, there is the feature of activating/deactivating NodeJS support for a 
HTML5 project, which changes the Icon and I think some of behaviours. So why 
not activating/deactivating other project features? Like Maven or Gradle or 
whatever? Yes maybe the background process could be a problem.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Attila Kelemen
Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. Januar 2019 16:49
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Activating project type features in different project type

Actually, I have had mutliple complaints about this in the past. Almost
always (the exceptions were, when there are multiple build tools
temporarily, due to porting between build tools), the issue was the
presence of the `package.json` (implying a particular project type). That
said, I don't know who this could be safely changed in NB. If it were only
this JS project type, then I guess there is not much conflict because there
could be a wrapper for `Project` merging all project types volunteering to
accept that project. However, if it is say Ant+Maven+Gradle, then they will
have lots of conflicting queries on the project lookup. If the user could
essentially change whose lookup is proxied, then it might work in theory
but who knows what backgroud process may break because it assumes project
type permanence. Though I could say, that I tried to not rely on that, I
saw in many plugins that this is not usually the case and people heavily
build on the assumption (implicitly) that project types do not change.

So, I'm not very optimistic that this could be changed. Making a special
case for JS projects seem more plausible.

Attila Kelemen

Emilian Bold  ezt írta (időpont: 2019. jan. 22., K,
10:13):

> > At the end, I need to find a proper solution for that, I can’t be the
> only one who has this problem. I already have it with 3 projects.
>
> You are literally the only one to have ever complained about this. At
> least from what I can remember.
>
> Having a user-configurable priority for project types might make
> sense, I guess. But you could also just disable modules entirely and
> the the support goes away (I guess this is what a project 'switcher'
> would do?)
>
> I'm just not certain this is something the IDE should support specifically.
>
> As an implementation detail: I worked a fair bit last year with the
> Project API and implementation. There are a lot of assumptions there
> that you might need to tweak in order to recognise multiple Projects
> for a FileObject. This will not be an easy PR to make.
>
> And it doesn't even look to me like you want to pick *one* project,
> you want an amalgam of features from various project types.
>
> --emi
>
> http://coolbeans.xyz/ - CoolBeans: An IDE for Java, JavaEE, PHP and more!
>
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 10:59 AM Christian Lenz 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hey,
> >
> > there is a Long discussion going on here:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-1802
> >
> > In short, I have the problem that NetBeans, forces me into one project
> type (here maven) when there are two or more files/folders of different
> Project types (pom.xml, package.json, etc.). So my case I have a project
> with a pom.xml and a package.json and NetBeans opens that project as maven.
> Which is not correct. But removing the pom.xml is not working, because I
> need it. So I preferred a project type switcher, but in the end as Geertjan
> and Milos already said, that doesn’t make sense. So in general it would be
> good to activate features from one project type into the other but not all
> at the same time. Because this will be a mess, mixed HTML5/JS Actions with
> Maven Actions, build/run will not work, because which will win?
> >
> > There is another discussion with Geertjan and Milos but in private, I
> will summerize some Infos here:
> >
> > TLDR;
> > Milos wrote:
> >
> > „Yeah, not really much to add there that wasn't already mentioned in
> https://github.com/tropyx/NetBeansPuppet/issues/27 .
> > project types are semi-automatically identified by certain files in a
> directory and each directory can be exactly one project type. That's a core
> feature of netbeans project system. To allow switching you woud need to
> create one project type to bind them all. But really, you don't want a
> project type switcher, you want features from one project type in the other
> project type. That's how maven w

Activating project type features in different project type

[Christian Lenz]

Hey,

there is a Long discussion going on here: 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-1802

In short, I have the problem that NetBeans, forces me into one project type 
(here maven) when there are two or more files/folders of different Project 
types (pom.xml, package.json, etc.). So my case I have a project with a pom.xml 
and a package.json and NetBeans opens that project as maven. Which is not 
correct. But removing the pom.xml is not working, because I need it. So I 
preferred a project type switcher, but in the end as Geertjan and Milos already 
said, that doesn’t make sense. So in general it would be good to activate 
features from one project type into the other but not all at the same time. 
Because this will be a mess, mixed HTML5/JS Actions with Maven Actions, 
build/run will not work, because which will win?

There is another discussion with Geertjan and Milos but in private, I will 
summerize some Infos here:

TLDR;
Milos wrote:

„Yeah, not really much to add there that wasn't already mentioned in 
https://github.com/tropyx/NetBeansPuppet/issues/27 .
project types are semi-automatically identified by certain files in a directory 
and each directory can be exactly one project type. That's a core feature of 
netbeans project system. To allow switching you woud need to create one project 
type to bind them all. But really, you don't want a project type switcher, you 
want features from one project type in the other project type. That's how maven 
war/ear/ejb/apisupport support works, bridging editor features for certain 
content and have them available in the other. That's generally quite a bit of 
work for individual features and sometimes the bridging could be shady.
 
Alternatively you can just rewire your content to be 2 projects in 2 
directories. There still could be rough edges to it but it's likely the easiest 
way out.
 
Milos“


Me again:

„That could be another thing. As I said like the feature 
activation/deactivation which is already possible in HTML5 -> NodeJS. I can 
activate/deactivate nodejs features.

But I don’t want all features of both project types in one project. That will 
be a mess of actions shown in the context menu. To many project options, 
because now we have 2 projects. And what will happen for build/run? What will 
win? I will hit run or build and for me I need to change the building pipeline 
to node with grunt/gulp or npm and not using maven for this. So yes, It would 
be nice to have features from one project into the other one, BUT I will decide 
by my own whether I want them or not.“




So here is my proposal how that could work:

I prefer not being a dominant project, because the plugin for puppet dominants 
in this case. If there are problems with some projects with 2 different project 
types, I would expect a warning on the project with an Icon of a non specific 
project type and the exclamation mark as we have it for other projects with 
problems, that I can resolve (Missing dependencies, missing NPM installed, 
missing Bower, etc.).

If I resolve such a project I can choose which project type I want, by my own, 
not by NetBeans (Only for multiple project types). And when I choose one, for 
example HTML5, it should be saved as my default. And with this project type 
which could be maven and my saved HTML5, I should add/activate Maven features, 
because it is possible of that specific type of project.


At the end, I need to find a proper solution for that, I can’t be the only one 
who has this problem. I already have it with 3 projects.


Cheers

Chris

AW: SOE for embeding JS provider

[Christian Lenz]

Atm, I really see the Point what Geertjan said. After rethinking of what Vue 
really is, I created another ticket Long ago, which is not belongs to that 
Problem, but with some missing requirements what Geertjan wanted: 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-504 Just added some minutes ago. 
But again, not related to that Problem here.

I understand the Thing with +html is not working out of the box and out of the 
world but if you followed my discussion, I thought it will be handled like 
other mixed mimetypes like with +JavaScript and +x-json etc. Atm I’m fine to 
Change the ticket to Major and will think About what is a better Approach for 
that.

In General, there is a bug that I encountered and it should be fixed 
anyway/anyhow. Thx Jan to had a look into it.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Jan Lahoda
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Januar 2019 18:36
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: SOE for embeding JS provider

Well, here is what I think happens:
JsEmbeddingProvider calls:
WebUtils.getResultIterator(resultIterator, "text/html")
to find the HTML part of the given code. But (inside of that), it does:
if (ri.getSnapshot().getMimeType().equals(mimetype)) {
but the top-level mimetype (ri.getSnapshot().getMimeType()) is
(unsurprisingly) "text/vue+html", which obviously does not match
"text/html", so it tries to find "text/html" in embeddings, which will in
turn call JsEmbeddingProvider, etc.

So roughly/probably what is needed is to allow "text/vue+html" to be
accepted as "text/html". I guess there are many ways to do it, one of them
would be to replace the "if" above with something like:
MimePath topLevelPath = ri.getSnapshot().getMimePath();
String generalized = topLevelPath.getInheritedType();
if (generalized == null || "".equals(generalized)) {
generalized = topLevelPath.getPath();
}
if (generalized.equals(mimetype)) {

But not an expert in the WebUtils stuff, and I probably don't have time to
investigate very deeply. Might also be needed on the other place that
compares mimetypes. But with this, I got the syntax highlighting working,
but not HTML code completion, which is suspicious.

(I suspect a more proactive approach might be needed - if something does
not work, put a breakpoint at an interesting place and see what happens.)

Jan


On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 5:07 PM Christian Lenz 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> please have a look into this ticket. I got several SOE, when I create a
> new filetype which is text/vue+html or text/whatever+html.
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-88  Unfortunately, I don’t
> have much experience with that Code so a more advanced dev should have a
> look into this. Thx.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>

SOE for embeding JS provider

[Christian Lenz]

Hi,

please have a look into this ticket. I got several SOE, when I create a new 
filetype which is text/vue+html or text/whatever+html.
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-88  Unfortunately, I don’t have 
much experience with that Code so a more advanced dev should have a look into 
this. Thx.


Cheers

Chris

AW: Website enhancement ideas

[Christian Lenz]

Hey David,

sure. Will check whether tomorrow is possible or not and will let you know.


Cheers

Chris



Von: David Schulz
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 10. Januar 2019 13:05
An: Christian Lenz; dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: RE: Website enhancement ideas

Hello there! 

I need some more details here. 
@Christian Lenz Lenz maybe we can meet in Person tomorrow evening, to discuss 
some quick fixes and set something up? 
I'm sure we can set up a quick mockup which looks great compared to the status 
quo. 

All the best,
David
 

--

uxactly
system design thinking 

Kurfürstendamm 28
10719 Berlin

Tel: 0174 933 85 36
Mail: da...@uxact.ly
Skype: rai...@live.de
 
LinkedIn | Xing

From: Christian Lenz
Sent: Montag, 7. Januar 2019 10:05
To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Cc: David Schulz
Subject: AW: Website enhancement ideas

Maybe my beloved Friend David can help here.
Is it possible to make some enhancements for the page? Maybe merged with the 
netbeans.puls-webagentur.de proposal?


Cheers

Chris



Von: Zoran Sevarac
Gesendet: Samstag, 5. Januar 2019 11:42
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Website enhancement ideas

Is it option to use something like design crowd https://www.designcrowd.com/
and get professional proposals for design and/or banners?
I've used it few times and I got a lot of very nice proposals.




On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 10:52 AM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:

> It seems they're in your GitHub, right now, i.e., github.com/vieiro:
>
>
> https://github.com/vieiro/incubator-netbeans-website/blob/feature/third-donation-tutorials/netbeans.apache.org/src/content/kb/docs/java/quickstart.asciidoc
>
> Is this correct, right now, or is there a link on the Apache NetBeans
> GitHubs somewhere.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gj
>
> On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 11:20 PM Antonio  wrote:
>
> > Good plan! Thanks, Geertjan!
> >
> > El 30/12/2018 a las 12:24, Geertjan Wielenga escribió:
> > > Great and thanks for all the work!
> > >
> > >  From my point of view, it would be simplest if you'd create a list of
> > tasks
> > > on the Wiki, each task being an issue so that we can track via JIRA.
> > >
> > > So far, it seems to me that the best approach is to simply take the
> lead
> > > and put those tasks out there as a starting point, and then others will
> > > take it from there. A discussion that is too open is not going to get
> too
> > > many responses, it seems so far.
> > >
> > >  From my end, I've been working on netbeans.org -- especially the
> front
> > page
> > > where every link AFAIK now point to netbeans.apache.org. Since a few
> > > minutes, the netbeans.org/downloads page redirects to the Apache
> > NetBeans
> > > download page.
> > >
> > > In short, until we have all the documentation that is on netbeans.org
> > > safely housed and structured at Apache, and we have redirects etc in
> > place,
> > > netbeans.org will as far as possible simply have all/most of its links
> > > redirect to netbeans.apache.org.
> > >
> > > Gj
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 7:35 PM Antonio  wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi all,
> > >>
> > >> As you know the current https://netbeans.apache.org was launched
> about
> > >> one year ago and has gone through different enhancements.
> > >>
> > >> During this year we've added some wiki pages, some content, our
> download
> > >> pages are compliant with Apache requirements and we're also compliant
> > >> with all Apache Whimsy requirements [1].
> > >>
> > >> Before starting integrating the tutorials [2] and before leaving the
> > >> incubator we may want to prepare some enhancements. These may range
> from
> > >> look and feel enhancements (banners, images, icons, typography
> > >> enhancements, etc.) to content enhancements (sidebars, banners, etc.),
> > >> or some repository enhancements (removing the 'bits.netbeans.org'
> > >> directory, for instance, as this is now handled elsewhere) or tooling
> > >> enhancements.
> > >>
> > >> What do you think could be improved? Are there any volunteers for the
> > >> look and feel enhancements? Do we want to start a "web design contest"
> > >> much like the "NetBeans Logo Contest" we did for our logo? Do we want
> to
> > >> host a NetBeans blog there as well?
> > >>
> > >> Ideas and request for enhancements would be most welcome. Let's
> > brainstorm.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks in adva

AW: [DISCUSS] NetBeans 11.0 Release Schedule

[Christian Lenz]

I would like to come up with my two lists (or parts of it) as my wishlist for 
NB 11. First the Performance list: 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20NETBEANS%20AND%20status%20%3D%20Open%20AND%20component%20%3D%20%22ide%20-%20Performance%22
 and the „critical“ list (Where we have to figure out, whether they are really 
criticals or not): 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20NETBEANS%20AND%20status%20%3D%20Open%20AND%20priority%20%3D%20Critical


Cheers

Chris



Von: Antonio
Gesendet: Montag, 7. Januar 2019 09:17
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] NetBeans 11.0 Release Schedule

Hi,

It would be great if we could have at least the "java", "ide" and "php" 
sections of the tutorials ready for NetBeans 11.

- https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-1868
- https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-1869
- https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-1870

We can then proceed with the rest (javaee, websvc, cnd, etc.) for future 
releases.

Cheers,
Antonio

El 06/01/2019 a las 11:36, Geertjan Wielenga escribió:
> Excellent, thanks for that schedule.
> 
> I believe we should see the following as the drivers (i.e., the P1s) of
> this release:
> 
> 1. JDK 12 support
> 2. Integration of the enterprise cluster
> 
> The above is in line with the roadmap proposal:
> 
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+Release+Roadmap
> 
> Integration of the enterprise cluster should start with including the
> enterprise cluster into the build process, I think?
> 
> Gj
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jan 6, 2019 at 9:14 AM Laszlo Kishalmi 
> wrote:
> 
>> Dear all,
>>
>> We've made some bold plans, back at November, releasing NetBeans 11.0
>> (or 11 we really shall decide this BTW) in March 2019
>>
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+Release+Roadmap
>>
>> If we would like to keep ourselves to that commitment, we had our little
>> time to celebrate, but we need to move on and prepare for the next round.
>>
>> Let's assume that we plan with a late March release 28th on week 13th,
>> I've put together a release schedule to have something to discuss on:
>>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+11
>>
>> I guess we are going to work with a 6 weeks NetCat cycle, so it should
>> start around the 6th week. I'd be happy if someone who knows NetCat more
>> could fill out the table.
>>
>> Thank you in advance!
>>
>> Laszlo Kishalmi
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 

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AW: Find Bugs Integration - which donation?

[Christian Lenz]

+1 for SpotBugs and SonarLint, back in the days, I can remember that there was 
already a Plugin for sonar: 
http://plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/51532/radar-netbeans 
(http://plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/51532/radar-netbeans)

Maybe the Code can help in some way.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Emilian Bold
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 2. Januar 2019 21:08
An: NetBeans Dev@
Betreff: Re: Find Bugs Integration - which donation?

PS: I wonder if we have a list of such 'runtime' module install hints
we have all over the IDE. There's nb-javac and Oracle JS but also this
one. (And of course, the Maven archetypes... What else?)

--emi

http://coolbeans.xyz/ - CoolBeans: An IDE for Java, JavaEE, PHP and more!

On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 10:03 PM Emilian Bold  wrote:
>
> > Please note that SpotBugs is under LGPL, which is going to be tricky here.
>
> Even in 8.2 FindBugs was installed at runtime. Nothing different this
> time if we put it outside Apache infra.
>
> --emi
>
> http://coolbeans.xyz/ - CoolBeans: An IDE for Java, JavaEE, PHP and more!
>
> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 9:58 PM Jan Lahoda  wrote:
> >
> > AFAIK, the findbugs module is part of the next donation (#4, unless I am
> > mistaken) - the "nb.cluster.extra (3532 files)" is relevant. ("extra"
> > cluster is everything that is not in other clusters.)
> >
> > Please note that SpotBugs is under LGPL, which is going to be tricky here.
> >
> > Jan
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 3:59 AM Laszlo Kishalmi 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Well, just adding some note: FindBugs is not maintained and cannot
> > > process bytecode from Java 9 and above.
> > >
> > > On 12/31/18 3:01 PM, John McDonnell wrote:
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > > Just looking at the transition page[1] and I notice theres no reference
> > > to
> > > > the find bugs integration (When you selection Source->Inspect and select
> > > > FindBugs as an analyser) page.
> > > >
> > > > Is there any update on this? Was it missed in the confluence page -
> > > > relegated to a later drop?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance
> > > >
> > > > [1]:
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+Transition
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > >
> > > -
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >

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For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
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AW: Website enhancement ideas

[Christian Lenz]

Maybe my beloved Friend David can help here.
Is it possible to make some enhancements for the page? Maybe merged with the 
netbeans.puls-webagentur.de proposal?


Cheers

Chris



Von: Zoran Sevarac
Gesendet: Samstag, 5. Januar 2019 11:42
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Website enhancement ideas

Is it option to use something like design crowd https://www.designcrowd.com/
and get professional proposals for design and/or banners?
I've used it few times and I got a lot of very nice proposals.




On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 10:52 AM Geertjan Wielenga
 wrote:

> It seems they're in your GitHub, right now, i.e., github.com/vieiro:
>
>
> https://github.com/vieiro/incubator-netbeans-website/blob/feature/third-donation-tutorials/netbeans.apache.org/src/content/kb/docs/java/quickstart.asciidoc
>
> Is this correct, right now, or is there a link on the Apache NetBeans
> GitHubs somewhere.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gj
>
> On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 11:20 PM Antonio  wrote:
>
> > Good plan! Thanks, Geertjan!
> >
> > El 30/12/2018 a las 12:24, Geertjan Wielenga escribió:
> > > Great and thanks for all the work!
> > >
> > >  From my point of view, it would be simplest if you'd create a list of
> > tasks
> > > on the Wiki, each task being an issue so that we can track via JIRA.
> > >
> > > So far, it seems to me that the best approach is to simply take the
> lead
> > > and put those tasks out there as a starting point, and then others will
> > > take it from there. A discussion that is too open is not going to get
> too
> > > many responses, it seems so far.
> > >
> > >  From my end, I've been working on netbeans.org -- especially the
> front
> > page
> > > where every link AFAIK now point to netbeans.apache.org. Since a few
> > > minutes, the netbeans.org/downloads page redirects to the Apache
> > NetBeans
> > > download page.
> > >
> > > In short, until we have all the documentation that is on netbeans.org
> > > safely housed and structured at Apache, and we have redirects etc in
> > place,
> > > netbeans.org will as far as possible simply have all/most of its links
> > > redirect to netbeans.apache.org.
> > >
> > > Gj
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 7:35 PM Antonio  wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi all,
> > >>
> > >> As you know the current https://netbeans.apache.org was launched
> about
> > >> one year ago and has gone through different enhancements.
> > >>
> > >> During this year we've added some wiki pages, some content, our
> download
> > >> pages are compliant with Apache requirements and we're also compliant
> > >> with all Apache Whimsy requirements [1].
> > >>
> > >> Before starting integrating the tutorials [2] and before leaving the
> > >> incubator we may want to prepare some enhancements. These may range
> from
> > >> look and feel enhancements (banners, images, icons, typography
> > >> enhancements, etc.) to content enhancements (sidebars, banners, etc.),
> > >> or some repository enhancements (removing the 'bits.netbeans.org'
> > >> directory, for instance, as this is now handled elsewhere) or tooling
> > >> enhancements.
> > >>
> > >> What do you think could be improved? Are there any volunteers for the
> > >> look and feel enhancements? Do we want to start a "web design contest"
> > >> much like the "NetBeans Logo Contest" we did for our logo? Do we want
> to
> > >> host a NetBeans blog there as well?
> > >>
> > >> Ideas and request for enhancements would be most welcome. Let's
> > brainstorm.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks in advance,
> > >> Antonio
> > >>
> > >> [1]
> > >> https://whimsy.apache.org/pods/project/netbeans
> > >>
> > >> [2]
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> https://github.com/vieiro/incubator-netbeans-website/tree/feature/third-donation-tutorials/netbeans.apache.org/src/content/kb/docs
> > >>
> > >> -
> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > >> For additional commands, e-mail:
> dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > >>
> > >> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> >
> > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
> >
> >
> >
> >
>


-- 
Zoran Sevarac, PhD, Associate Professor
Department of Software Engineering
University of Belgrade, Faculty of Organisational Sciences

Deep Netts   Co-founder & CEO  | Oracle
Groundbreaker Ambassador | Java Champion

Open source: Neuroph founder, Apache Net
Beans 

My prio list for NetBeans 11

[Christian Lenz]

Hey all,

until now I use NetBeans 10 VC5 and waiting for the release w/o vc5 where I 
know it will be more or less the same. So for now I have a Little list of my 
priorities for NetBeans 11:

Performance:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20NETBEANS%20AND%20status%20%3D%20Open%20AND%20component%20%3D%20%22ide%20-%20Performance%22

Criticals:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20NETBEANS%20AND%20status%20%3D%20Open%20AND%20priority%20%3D%20Critical


So as I said this is only my „wishlist“ to taking care of. I will help as much 
as I can but hope of the help of the pros of the NetBeans IDE components.

The other thing is, did we now decided to not have a quarterly release anymore 
still for 2019? What does that mean? What will Change? Only to come up with 
that the biggest competitor IntelliJ still has quarterly Releases and Eclipse 
now too. IMHO it will be more easier after the complete donation Phase as I 
mentioned before.

We should create a Backlog for the next release like a release 11 backlog where 
we know what will implemented to have a better overview of everything.


Cheers

Chris

AW: [RESULT][VOTE] Release Apache Netbeans 10.0 (incubating) [votecandidate 5]

[Christian Lenz]

To make it clear: ‎chris1...@me.com.INVALID isn’t me.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Freitag, 21. Dezember 2018 09:50
An: dev
Betreff: Re: [RESULT][VOTE] Release Apache Netbeans 10.0 (incubating) 
[votecandidate 5]

Excellent!

Possibly that last item, i.e., community member Chris, is possibly Chris
Lenz, i.e., a PPMC member.

Gj

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 8:33 AM Laszlo Kishalmi 
wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> As this vote has been open for at least 72 hours and we have a nice
> number, 15 of +1 votes, zero 0-s, and zero -1, I'm closing this voting
> thread.
>
> Thanks you all, for the checks, reviews and votes!
>
> Next Steps:
>
>  1. I'm going to update the wiki page regarding the latest 10.0 related
> information.
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+NetBeans+10
>  2. I'm going to present our community intent to release Apache NetBeans
> (incubating)10.0 to the Apache Community in the form of a similar
> voting thread on gene...@incubator.apache.org.
>  3. That thread would be open for at least 72 hours. We need to collect
> 3 +1 votes there (we can carry over Ate's +1 there), and hopefully
> no 0-s or -1-s
>
> Details:
>
> 1, +1 IPMC vote:
>
>   * Ate Douma (http://people.apache.org/phonebook.html?uid=ate)
>
> 13, +1 PPMC:
>
>   * Jaroslav Tulach (http://people.apache.org/phonebook.html?uid=jtulach)
>   * Geertjan Wielenga (
> http://people.apache.org/phonebook.html?uid=geertjan)
>   * Jiří Kovalský (http://people.apache.org/phonebook.html?uid=jkovalsky)
>   * Eric Barboni (http://people.apache.org/phonebook.html?uid=skygo)
>   * John Brock (http://people.apache.org/phonebook.html?uid=peppertech)
>   * Antonio Vieiro (http://people.apache.org/phonebook.html?uid=vieiro)
>   * Neil C Smith (http://people.apache.org/phonebook.html?uid=neilcsmith)
>   * John McDonnell
> (http://people.apache.org/phonebook.html?uid=johnmcdonnell)
>   * Reema Taneja (http://people.apache.org/phonebook.html?uid=rtaneja)
>   * Arunava Sinha (http://people.apache.org/phonebook.html?uid=arusinha)
>   * Emilian Bold (http://people.apache.org/phonebook.html?uid=emi)
>   * Josh Juneau (http://people.apache.org/phonebook.html?uid=javajuneau)
>   * Junichi Yamamoto (
> http://people.apache.org/phonebook.html?uid=junichi11)
>
> 1, +1 form a Community member:
>
>   * Chris 
>
>
> Laszlo Kishalmi,
>
> Voluntary Release Manager of Apache NetBeans (incubating) 10.0
>
>

AW: Feedback suggestions

[Christian Lenz]

And there is still a Plugin for that: 
http://plugins.netbeans.org/plugin/48946/displaydependencies plus for 
suggestions, feature requests, Bugs, please use jira: 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/projects/NETBEANS


Cheers

Chris



Von: Thomas Kellerer
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 19. Dezember 2018 09:26
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Feedback suggestions

y...@sudytech.com schrieb am 19.12.2018 um 04:03:
> for support of maven, netbeans should support view dependencies tree like 
> Dependency Hierarchy in Eclipse

If you open the POM of a Maven project you can click on the "Graph" tab, and 
then choose e.g. the "Horizontal Tree" layout. 
Is that what you are looking for? 




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AW: Regarding to Release Apache NetBeans 10

[Christian Lenz]

Ok I can.
I only remembered, that I already brought this discussion at the beginning of 
NetBeans 10 smth like that.
And for me, it was part of the Voting, because it is not similar to the other 
Releases like 7.0, 8.0, 9.0. I don’t know why we changed it to 10 instead of 
10.0. But ok, will bring it up on 11 again.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. Dezember 2018 16:38
An: dev
Betreff: Re: Regarding to Release Apache NetBeans 10

We're not going to discuss or change release numbering patterns in the
middle of a release.

Can you put this discussion aside for the moment, and raise it again if you
like when we work on Apache NetBeans 11, and in the meantime focus on what
needs to be focused on: voting on vc5.

Thanks,

Gj


On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 3:34 PM Christian Lenz 
wrote:

> Yes I know that, but it is still public and everyone can see it. So it
> could be, that the users think that the VC is the RC I mean in General it
> is, IMHO. I think it can confuse People and if it is still intern, we
> should treat it as that.Github is one of the biggest repos for Code and
> released applications. Just saying,
>
>
>
> Von: Neil C Smith
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. Dezember 2018 16:08
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: Regarding to Release Apache NetBeans 10
>
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2018, 14:53 Christian Lenz 
> > And to bring it up again, as this was said often, the VC is confusing for
> > users who are not inside of the Apache Business.
> >
>
> The VC is only internal. It's not released yet until the vote passes. At
> which point the VC suffix should be removed and not visible as far as end
> users are concerned.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
>

AW: Regarding to Release Apache NetBeans 10

[Christian Lenz]

Yes I know that, but it is still public and everyone can see it. So it could 
be, that the users think that the VC is the RC I mean in General it is, IMHO. I 
think it can confuse People and if it is still intern, we should treat it as 
that.Github is one of the biggest repos for Code and released applications. 
Just saying,



Von: Neil C Smith
Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. Dezember 2018 16:08
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Regarding to Release Apache NetBeans 10

On Tue, 18 Dec 2018, 14:53 Christian Lenz  And to bring it up again, as this was said often, the VC is confusing for
> users who are not inside of the Apache Business.
>

The VC is only internal. It's not released yet until the vote passes. At
which point the VC suffix should be removed and not visible as far as end
users are concerned.

Best wishes,

Neil

AW: Regarding to Release Apache NetBeans 10

[Christian Lenz]

And to bring it up again, as this was said often, the VC is confusing for users 
who are not inside of the Apache Business. I thought we are treated it only for 
internal process, but it is open to see for everyone.

And the third Thing is again the Version number. I thought we will comunicate 
NetBeans 10 to the public and intern we will have 10.0 but no, 10.0 is still 
for the public too. So again, I would suggest to have it as the old way 10.0, 
but for this, we should Change the Splash screen. It is confusing, sometimes we 
are Talking About 10 and sometimes About 10.0 which is also 100, etc.

So Nothing internal, Nothing external, it should be the same, everywhere.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Christian Lenz
Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. Dezember 2018 15:46
An: d...@netbeans.apache.org
Betreff: Regarding to Release Apache NetBeans 10

As wanted, this is a new discussion based on the Release of Apache NetBeans 10.

Why are the tags only the source Code? We should have the release there too? I 
clicked on the zip Archive and downloaded, because I thought it is the release 
but it is only the source Code. The release section should be the release/build 
artifact too. This is how the Release section is working. And if someone is 
using GitHub and Looks into the Releases they expect the binary/installer or in 
our case the portable Version of NetBeans.


Cheers

Chris

Regarding to Release Apache NetBeans 10

[Christian Lenz]

As wanted, this is a new discussion based on the Release of Apache NetBeans 10.

Why are the tags only the source Code? We should have the release there too? I 
clicked on the zip Archive and downloaded, because I thought it is the release 
but it is only the source Code. The release section should be the release/build 
artifact too. This is how the Release section is working. And if someone is 
using GitHub and Looks into the Releases they expect the binary/installer or in 
our case the portable Version of NetBeans.


Cheers

Chris

NetBeans release

[Christian Lenz]

Hey,

I thought I followed every discussion, but not to 100%, I wanted to ask what is 
the Status of the release? What is still missing? I saw that there was a 
security issue?


Cheers

Chris

AW: Rhino in NetBeans Platform?

[Christian Lenz]

Hey,

I thought that Graal VM will replace Rhino? Only asking


Cheers

Chris



Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. Dezember 2018 11:13
An: dev
Betreff: Re: Rhino in NetBeans Platform?

Thanks, clarified, no worries.

Gj

On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 10:07 AM Matthias Bläsing 
wrote:

> Hi Geertjan,
>
> I'm mobile right now and won't get back to my main maschine till thursday,
> so I'll make it brief.
>
> The discussion happened in the private@ mailinglist. Please see the
> discussion around the PAC interpretation there.
>
> Thank you
>
> Matthias
>
>
> Am 4. Dezember 2018 10:18:08 MEZ schrieb Geertjan Wielenga
> :
> >Hi all, especially Matthias Blaesing,
> >
> >
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/commit/2a05da9deb81937b6bf43bc213933392edbc0762
> >
> >Is Rhino now in the NetBeans Platform, when did this happen, not sure
> >we
> >discussed this?
>
>
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>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

AW: Schliemann still alive?

[Christian Lenz]

Hey Mario,

please have a look into this ticket: 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-7

TLDR;
It is About to easily implement a lot of languages with one or Maybe less 
couple of files w/o writing Java for Syntax Highlighting, Braces Matching and 
some simple stuff. This was the Intention of NBS (NetBeans Scripting aka 
Schliemann). What I think, Schliemann is an own implementing of NetBeans and it 
was/is very great, the biggest Problem, there is no list of supported 
languages, no one has ever created NBS languages EXCEPT from cucumber/Gherkin. 
This is the only language implementation that I know that someone created as 
NBS for NetBeans.

Yes it is still working and you can still use it, but it is a big Buggy as 
others already mentioned it. So this is where the ticket started. A lot of 
other Editors has similar implementation like VS Code (They uses textMate 
language files), UltraEdit, NotePad++ and some others. Please see the ticket 
for more Details, I collected everything inside.

In short, NBS is nice but only one had created cucumber/Gherkin for NetBeans 
with NBS. I would like to have a more common use of what other IDEs or Editors 
use to reuse those languages.

I’m in contact with the textmate support to understand whether there is a list 
of supported languages or not.


Cheers

Chris

Von: Sven Reimers
Gesendet: Montag, 3. Dezember 2018 21:21
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Schliemann still alive?

Hi all,

If we gather enough interest and support in/from the community - I would
suggest looking into the Schliemann approach and figure out if we can build
a new, better version...

Any volunteers interested in investigating?

-Sven

Am Mo., 3. Dez. 2018, 20:41 hat Enrico Scantamburlo 
geschrieben:

> The module is deprecated. We are still using it because we developed much
> stuff on the top of it, but it is very buggy and unsupported as far as I
> know. Too bad because we had high expectations from it.
>
> Il giorno lun 3 dic 2018, 19:57 Mario Schroeder 
> ha
> scritto:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > after implementing language support the hard way with ANTLR and self
> > written LanguageHierachy, I accidently came accross the Generic Language
> > Framework, aka Projekt Schliemann.
> >
> > I know it is quite old. So therefore my question: Is it still a solution
> to
> > create support for a new language? Or shall I keep a distance from that
> > module?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mario
> >
>

AW: NetBeans - the UI for Maven

[Christian Lenz]

This is what I meant, I would prefer also to have Java Maven or smth with Maven 
and Java Ant otherwise than only haven Java and Java Ant.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Neil C Smith
Gesendet: Montag, 26. November 2018 14:52
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: NetBeans - the UI for Maven

On Sun, 25 Nov 2018 at 20:53, Tim Boudreau  wrote:
> There's a UI principle Joel Spolsky expounded years ago:  Never force the
> user into a choice they don't care about.

Not sure if that was meant as a direct reply to me or not, but I
completely agree with that ...

> A lot of users of NetBeans are new to Java or new to programming
> altogether. They don't know what Ant, Maven or Gradle are, and won't
> understand what they are for a long time.

... however, from a couple of conversations I've had recently with
new-ish programmers, I'm not sure I agree with hiding the fact that
there *is* a build system when not forcing a decision.

I'm mostly +1 to Toni's PR as a good first step, but personally I
think it would be better to be more explicit in the name and
description that the project uses Maven -

eg. Java Application with Maven - A Java application using the default
Maven build system.

Is there also an issue if we just move the Maven template with the
same name in place of the Ant one that a load of old tutorials, etc.
will be confusingly wrong?

Best wishes,

Neil

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AW: Windows security warning constantly popping when startingNetbeans 9.0

[Christian Lenz]

I don’t think that the mailinglist will work with attachments, only guessing. 
Can you please upload the Image to Maybe imgur or smth similar please?


Cheers

Chris



Von: Jean-Marc Borer
Gesendet: Montag, 26. November 2018 14:29
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Windows security warning constantly popping when startingNetbeans 
9.0

Sorry, it was an embbed image in "rich" email. I attached it.

On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 1:26 PM Christian Lenz  wrote:
Unfortunately I can’t see the Image.



Von: Jean-Marc Borer
Gesendet: Montag, 26. November 2018 13:37
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Windows security warning constantly popping when startingNetbeans 
9.0

I'll answer to myself: I can uncheck the "Always ask before opening this file". 
So isn't it possible anyway to have a proper publisher set eventually?

Cheers

On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 12:30 PM Jean-Marc Borer  wrote:

Hi all,

I am wondering if I am the only one experiencing this Windows security alert 
with Netbeans 9.0 every time I launch the IDE?



Product Version: Apache NetBeans IDE 9.0 (Build 
incubator-netbeans-release-334-on-20180708) 
Java: 1.8.0_191; Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM 25.191-b12 
Runtime: Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment 1.8.0_191-b12 
System: Windows 7 version 6.1 running on amd64; Cp1252; en (nb) 
User directory: C:\projects\.netbeans\9.0 
Cache directory: C:\projects\.netbeans\cache\9.0

Best regards

JMB       

AW: NetBeans - the UI for Maven

[Christian Lenz]

Later on, I would like to prefer seeing everything related to Java (doesn’t 
matter Ant, Web, Maven, Gradle, Swing, JFx) under the Java Project Category. Of 
Course the rest could be in Sub categories

Java
- Swing Apps
- Web Apps
- JavaFX Apps
- HTML4J Apps
- CLI / Console App
- Whatever we have here

NetBeans Modules could be a Sub category too or separated from them.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Anton Epple
Gesendet: Montag, 26. November 2018 12:13
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: AW: NetBeans - the UI for Maven

Done, I updated the PR:

https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/1038

--Toni

Am 26.11.18, 10:28 schrieb "Anton Epple" :

Fully agree, I'll remove the (ic) __

Am 26.11.18, 10:22 schrieb "Emilian Bold" :

OK, let's make the cheapest PR we can do now and see how it looks (no
"Ant(ic)" please ;-) ). Then we can have an issue (or continue on this
thread) about how to redo the wizards for multiple build systems. 
Indeed,
if we go for the perfect solution we will still be stuck with having Ant
the default for a long time...

--emi


On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 10:26 AM  wrote:

> I'm not rushing. I read the proposal by Jaroslav and he has a point.
> Having ANT as the default is wrong. Maven should be the default.
> So I created a PR which does exactly that (and nothing else). I 
provided a
> (good) fix for the problem.
>
> I think it's great that this spawned a discussion about if we should 
unify
> the project wizard and change the grouping completely. But my fear 
is, that
> it prevents us from solving the initial problem. Some of the ideas 
are good
> (like thinking about grouping project wizards in a more logical way), 
some
> of them are bad in my opinion (like adding an extra step). All of them
> require a lot more discussion.
>
> One example:
>
> There's a wizard for JavaFX with ANT and one with Maven. If we add a 
build
> system choice in the wizard, the user will rightfully expect that 
this only
> influences what build system is used. But actually it will do much 
more.
> Both wizards create different applications, one is using FXML and CSS
> (Maven), the other isn't (Ant). So we'll have to discuss what to do: 
For us
> it's easier to convert the ANT project, but the Maven archetype is 
very
> opinionated in promoting FXML and requires me to delete a bunch of 
files
> every time I use it. So I would suggest to create a new archetype 
instead.
> And now I'm lying under the car covered in oil, while I actually 
wanted to
> change a lightbulb in the kitchen [1]
>
> The PR is the exact solution for the initial simple problem. I 
suggest to
> treat the other changes as a different RFE. If we decide to unify the
> wizards for different build systems, this is great, and it will wipe 
out my
> changes before any user has seen them. If we don't find the time, or 
cannot
> find a solution, then at least we've fixed the initial problem.
>
> --Toni
>
> [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbSehcT19u0
>
>
>
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: Emilian Bold 
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 25. November 2018 18:53
> An: NetBeans Dev@ 
> Betreff: Re: NetBeans - the UI for Maven
>
> I don't think there's any kind of rush to have a PR today.
>
> I like Geertjan's idea best:
>
> > IMHO there should be a single wizard named "Java SE Application" 
and a
> > single wizard named "Java Web Applicaton", both of which, in step 
two
> > or three, should let the user choose whether they want to build 
their
> > Java application with Maven, Gradle, or Ant.
>
> If it's more work it's more work, but then users get to pick the build
> system from a combobox and we just set the default to be Maven.
>
> I don't know that area that much but perhaps a we could have some SPI 
for
> build systems and installing Gradle stuff will automatically add it 
to that
> wizard combobox.
>
> Maybe users could also have an option to set their preferred build 
system
> so it always picks Gradle (or Ant or Maven) next time.
>
> --emi
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 7:48 PM  wrote:
>
> > Yeah, I realized it and uploaded them to the PR .
> >
> > If we have something like:
> >
> > Java Application:
> >- Maven based
> > - ANT based
> > Java Web Application:
> >- Maven based
> > - ANT based
> > ...
  

AW: NetBeans - the UI for Maven

[Christian Lenz]

To add smth more here, it could be the same for PHP. In General you choose PHP 
and on the later steps you choose the Framework like Doctrine or WordPress or 
whatever. So this could be the same for Java Description could be: „Create Java 
applications with your favorite Tools. Ant, Maven, Gradle, can be choosen on 
the next steps“.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Christian Lenz
Gesendet: Samstag, 24. November 2018 19:25
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: AW: NetBeans - the UI for Maven

+1 from my side too for chaning the UI of the Project wizard, but, please give 
it not only the Name Java, say Java Maven instead. Not only Java and Java Ant. 
A lot of People who wants to start programming with Java they probably heard of 
Ant and Maven, Maybe gradle etc. and Maybe of pom, but often or sometimes, when 
they start, the don’t know the relationship of pom and Maven. So on the first 
look of your Setup, there is nothin Maven written, only pom based Project.


Maybe this could be an alternative Setup:

Java
- Maven
- Ant
- Gradle (Future ;) )

Or Maybe the Building step could be part of the next wizard window

Java
- Java Application
- …

Next step
Choose your Tool Pipeline or whatever
Ant, Maven, Gradle, etc.

So IMHO, smth that says Maven or Ant or Gradle (I know it is a Plugin) should 
be mentioned on the very first Project wizard window.

Not real topic related:
For pushing Maven, there is much more to do. I realized some stuff, that I 
found in Ant, which I couldn’t find easy in Maven. I will create tickets for 
that. 

The other Thing is, that it could be a nice to have to convert a ant based 
Project to Maven like in intelliJ. I know that this is not to 100% possible, 
but what IntelliJ does, they create a pom.xml (where you have to add the needed 
Information) for you and the Maven based Folders. Of Course you have to copy 
and paste the stuff manually, but this is a very Handy feature. I used it a lot 
but I have to open IntelliJ for that *shruggling*


Cheers

Chris

Von: Martin Desruisseaux
Gesendet: Samstag, 24. November 2018 17:02
An: Robert Scholte; Maven Users List; Jaroslav Tulach; 
dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: NetBeans - the UI for Maven

Le 24/11/2018 à 16:39, Robert Scholte a écrit :

> **If And Only If** you want to make use of single tool invocation for
> all you JPMS modules, then you cannot use Maven, it's architecture
> doesn't support it and any plugin trying to solve this is a hack.
>
But isn't what you are going to do for fixing MJAVADOC-449 (aggregated
javadoc), or is there another way?


> Might be possible to add support for it in Maven 4 or 5, but focus is
> on other improvements that block us right now.
>
Understood. Thanks!

    Martin



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AW: NetBeans - the UI for Maven

[Christian Lenz]

+1 from my side too for chaning the UI of the Project wizard, but, please give 
it not only the Name Java, say Java Maven instead. Not only Java and Java Ant. 
A lot of People who wants to start programming with Java they probably heard of 
Ant and Maven, Maybe gradle etc. and Maybe of pom, but often or sometimes, when 
they start, the don’t know the relationship of pom and Maven. So on the first 
look of your Setup, there is nothin Maven written, only pom based Project.


Maybe this could be an alternative Setup:

Java
- Maven
- Ant
- Gradle (Future ;) )

Or Maybe the Building step could be part of the next wizard window

Java
- Java Application
- …

Next step
Choose your Tool Pipeline or whatever
Ant, Maven, Gradle, etc.

So IMHO, smth that says Maven or Ant or Gradle (I know it is a Plugin) should 
be mentioned on the very first Project wizard window.

Not real topic related:
For pushing Maven, there is much more to do. I realized some stuff, that I 
found in Ant, which I couldn’t find easy in Maven. I will create tickets for 
that. 

The other Thing is, that it could be a nice to have to convert a ant based 
Project to Maven like in intelliJ. I know that this is not to 100% possible, 
but what IntelliJ does, they create a pom.xml (where you have to add the needed 
Information) for you and the Maven based Folders. Of Course you have to copy 
and paste the stuff manually, but this is a very Handy feature. I used it a lot 
but I have to open IntelliJ for that *shruggling*


Cheers

Chris

Von: Martin Desruisseaux
Gesendet: Samstag, 24. November 2018 17:02
An: Robert Scholte; Maven Users List; Jaroslav Tulach; 
dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: NetBeans - the UI for Maven

Le 24/11/2018 à 16:39, Robert Scholte a écrit :

> **If And Only If** you want to make use of single tool invocation for
> all you JPMS modules, then you cannot use Maven, it's architecture
> doesn't support it and any plugin trying to solve this is a hack.
>
But isn't what you are going to do for fixing MJAVADOC-449 (aggregated
javadoc), or is there another way?


> Might be possible to add support for it in Maven 4 or 5, but focus is
> on other improvements that block us right now.
>
Understood. Thanks!

    Martin



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AW: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans roadmap updates

[Christian Lenz]

I don’t know whether this Topic came up already, let me know and we can Forget 
About it but what About to adding public layers to that APIs to not Change them 
as much as possible? I mean there needs some refactoring for sure, but we can 
leave them as they are and adding public layer for the outside. Yes someone has 
to do it, Nothing to say more here, but this could be a good compromise of 
leaving stuff as it is and adding public layers.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Jan Lahoda
Gesendet: Samstag, 17. November 2018 20:05
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans roadmap updates

On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 7:45 AM Emilian Bold  wrote:

> > There should be no barriers in implementing functionality as plugins.
>
> Everything about programming and API design is making barriers.
>
> Although, if you think about it there are no true barriers, you can
> use reflection to hack into almost every corner of NetBeans.
>
> But what you would ideally want is for a neat API that provides you
> all these hooks, so the plugin author does little work and NetBeans
> takes the burden of creating (and maintaining!) this open API.
>
> So, it's a false problem.
>
> The actual problem has always been the same: maintaining quality and
> backwards compatibility implies being intentional about the things we
> support and the things we don't. There is nothing stopping people
> suggesting API improvements and making PRs, but we can't just make
> everything public and call it a day. Because then the next release
>

+1. I don't think there's anything stopping interested folks in creating
and proposing (public) APIs. But someone needs to step forward and do the
work.

Jan

comes and all the existing plugins stop working (or... we can't evolve
> anymore since we commit to such a big public API that we painted
> ourselves in a corner).
>
> The idea of providing experimental features as plugins is cool but
> somebody will have to do the work for all the plumbing. Those
> experimental features won't just become new modules into core, they
> will just get absorbed into the existing codebase when they are fully
> baked. Nothing preventing this to happen even right now, there just is
> no such magical generic infrastructure for it to happen.
>
> > How is it with PHP, is it a plugin which can be updated when new
> versions are released e.g. PHP 7.4, or do we need to wait until the next
> major release of Netbeans to get support for new versions?
>
> Worse case scenario we are looking at a 3-6 months delay, correct?
> Although the problem won't be about the release date, it will be about
> making sure somebody actually implements the proper support for the
> next PHP dot release. Assuming we are proactive about that, I don't
> see why we wouldn't have an out-of-band release specifically to
> include our improved PHP stuff.
>
> These things are not set in stone.
>
> --emi
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 5:00 PM Ondro Mihályi 
> wrote:
> >
> > I fully agree. There should be no barriers in implementing functionality
> as
> > plugins. Before every NB release,  the community could vote on plugins to
> > include in NB core to add their functionality into core.  That would
> still
> > allow updating core plugins to a newer version without waiting for
> another
> > NB release.
> >
> > Dňa št 15. 11. 2018, 11:39 Christian Lenz 
> > napísal(a):
> >
> > > Hey,
> > >
> > > My 2 cents here again. First I want to know, what you think, how the
> minor
> > > Releases should look like. If they also contains Features, I’m fine
> with
> > > that two.
> > >
> > > I will be more fine to have only 2 releases, if we can have more public
> > > apis for other languages except Java. This is, IMHO a big Problem that
> a
> > > lot of stuff, can’t be done with 3rd-party Plugins for HTML, PHP, JS,
> CSS,
> > > etc. because of missing public APIs. If we have more public APIs, we
> can
> > > have more Features inside of NetBeans with only 3rd-party Plugins.
> > >
> > > We can’t adding hints and Code fixes for JS, CSS/LESS/SCSS, PHP or HTML
> > > which could make the work easier. And this is only one Little example.
> We
> > > can’t adding embedding languages to the mentioned languages.
> > >
> > > NetBeans first was build only for Java, this is why the Tokens of Java
> are
> > > public, the hints and fixes you can add with 3rd-party Plugins. So
> this is
> > > why you can add a lot of stuff to the Java Editor with 3rd-party
> Plugins.
> > > If we are open-source, we should open minded too to let the Developers
> > > decide,

AW: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans roadmap updates

[Christian Lenz]

Hey,

My 2 cents here again. First I want to know, what you think, how the minor 
Releases should look like. If they also contains Features, I’m fine with that 
two.

I will be more fine to have only 2 releases, if we can have more public apis 
for other languages except Java. This is, IMHO a big Problem that a lot of 
stuff, can’t be done with 3rd-party Plugins for HTML, PHP, JS, CSS, etc. 
because of missing public APIs. If we have more public APIs, we can have more 
Features inside of NetBeans with only 3rd-party Plugins.

We can’t adding hints and Code fixes for JS, CSS/LESS/SCSS, PHP or HTML which 
could make the work easier. And this is only one Little example. We can’t 
adding embedding languages to the mentioned languages.

NetBeans first was build only for Java, this is why the Tokens of Java are 
public, the hints and fixes you can add with 3rd-party Plugins. So this is why 
you can add a lot of stuff to the Java Editor with 3rd-party Plugins. If we are 
open-source, we should open minded too to let the Developers decide, whether I 
want to add my feature into the core and wait 6 month after it is relased to 
the next Version or to add it via a Plugin and can bring it up today or 
tomorrow.


Cheers

Chris 



Von: Peter Hull
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 15. November 2018 09:06
An: dev.ataur.rah...@gmail.com
Cc: neilcsm...@apache.org; jiri.koval...@oracle.com; NetCAT team; NetBeans 
Mailing List; d...@netbeans.apache.org
Betreff: Re: [DISCUSS] Apache NetBeans roadmap updates

The 2 + 2 option makes sense to me. I'd be interested in hearing
people's thoughts about how this lines up with JDK releases:
* Is it better to do the NB testing after the general availability of
the JDK, or aim to have them released about the same time?
* What versions of JDK does Netbeans need to support, in terms of
developing/building NB itself, running NB and developing Java
applications using NB. (since there are alternatives to Oracle JDK I
suppose we don't need to be influenced by Oracle's support scheme)

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List of criticals

[Christian Lenz]

Hey Guys,

it would be nice, if we can have a look into the list of all criticals that are 
open, after release of NetBeans 10.0:
Advanced search: project = NETBEANS AND issuetype = Bug AND status in (Open, 
"In Progress", Reopened) AND priority = Critical

Could be a Milestone for the next NetBeans Version.


Cheers

Chris

Key bindings for VCS (Git) missing

[Christian Lenz]

I exported my Keymap profile from NetBeans 8.2 (Only the KeyBindings), after I 
imported them into NB 10.0 VC3, I got a message that not all bindings could be 
found, see the log.

I didn’t have a look into the log but I wanted to test it so I hit Ctrl + Alt + 
R, Ctrl + Alt + M for Revert Modifications for Git, but Nothing happened. So I 
checked the Options and I searched for my key, no result and I searched for 
Revert Modifications and also no result. I search for branch or checkout, 
Nothing. I switched the profile back to the normal „NetBeans“ one and also no 
result.

So can someone check it back please whether we still have keybindings for VCS, 
my case was git but for SVN or mercurial too?


Cheers

Chris

JIRA Templates to prevent less documented tickets

[Christian Lenz]

Hey Guys,

often we find less described tickets for improvements (use cases) or bugs 
(reproducable steps). I’m not out of this too, I sometimes do the same, not 
adding specific steps to reproduce (ashes on my head).

Anyway, so my suggestion is to add a template for the type bug, improvement and 
new feature or others where make sanese, like others already do it: 
https://github.com/junichi11/netbeans-wordpress-plugin/issues/new or other 
Projects. It is very handy and of course we will not Prevent 100% but I guess, 
we will have less one line descriptions or only stacktraces in our tickets.


Cheers

Chris

AW: NetBeans on Chromebooks

[Christian Lenz]

Hey Emi,

that would be great to see NetBeans on Chromebooks and at the summer of Code 


Cheers

Chris



Von: Emilian Bold
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 7. November 2018 21:48
An: NetBeans Dev@
Betreff: NetBeans on Chromebooks

Android Studio is coming to Chromebooks next year:
https://www.xda-developers.com/android-studio-chromebooks-chrome-os/

So... this means NetBeans should be able to run just as well.

I have a couple of Chromebooks but only the newer ones support the
Linux container capable of running an IDE.

Would be an interesting project to work on.

I guess we could also add it on the list for next year's Google Summer of Code.

--emi

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AW: AW: Apache NetBeans 10 vc-3: looks solid

[Christian Lenz]

Hey Jan,

TLDR;
you are absolutely Right. I tried it in NB 8.2 but I use the notification 
Plugin where the notifications went to the Notify API from the OS, so I didn’t 
realized it, but yes it happens there too. Yes, it only appears in the 
notification area BUT, if you have opened that window/Dialog once to see what 
happens, after Closing it, it will appears as a separate Dialog again, when the 
error occurs.

So yes I will switch it to critical and wait for a fix. It appears for me, 
while I tried to Change Code inside of a NetBeans module and I realized it in 
NB 10 first because my use case was to double click at the end and select the 
Code. I set it to blocker, not only due to annoying, but IMHO such a exception 
window, should never come up while working in a normal case. Now I notice that 
it is inside the notification first. Thx for that.


The NPE is a bit more worse, because find usages is a common workflow and it 
doesn’t work that correct than before.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Jan Lahoda
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 7. November 2018 23:57
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: AW: Apache NetBeans 10 vc-3: looks solid

Hi,

My personal opinion only:

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 8:14 PM Christian Lenz 
wrote:

> Yeah well, well again. I said only in my opinion, so I’m open to discuss
> it. The one with the tripple click, could be a Corner case, but it never
> happened before and I had the Situation, where the execption window came up
> which is annoying.
>

I am mildly surprised there was an exception window in the release build -
the popup should be suppressed in release builds? I just tried VC3, and it
seems the exception is thrown, but there's no popup, it "just" adds the
warning sign on right bottom corner? (Ability to select does not seem to be
affected?)

Frankly, for marking something a blocker, we should not only judge if (and
how much) a thing is annoying and if it is reproducible, but also how
important/common is the usecase/what is the impact. In this case, it is a
double (mouse) click in the editor, keep the mouse button pressed after the
second click and move the mouse cursor beyond the end of the document. So,
my personal opinion is that this is annoying, reproducible and should be
fixed, but I don't see it to be severe enough to stop the release at the
current stage.

Also - the same thing happens for NB 8.2 for me, so I guess I wonder if
there's some new information on why we could live with this so far, but the
fix can't wait for the next release.

In any case, the bug was missing a reproducible testcase(!!), so I just
added one.

Jan


> The NPE was in my opinion a blocker, to make it clear what there happens
> and it was still annyoing that an NPE came up, with the exception window,
> after using find usages. So this should not happen at all.
>
> 586 is the one with the NPE and 1012 is wrong, smth with javadoc, I think
> you mean 1440, Right?
>
> My 2 cents.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
>
> Von: Laszlo Kishalmi
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 7. November 2018 17:48
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: AW: Apache NetBeans 10 vc-3: looks solid
>
> Well, well,
>
> As of NETBEANS-586 it was created in April and suddenly after vc3 it
> became a BLOCKER...
> As of NETBEANS-1012 It was "just" CRITICAL two days ago. For me the issue
> describes a not that common use case. (Well of course it is really
> subjective.)
>
> I'm not really happy about that, in the last two week of the release cycle
> some dormant bugs just gets elevated as BLOCKER-s.
> If we really need to cut a vc4 on this weekend I'm happy to merge the PR
> for NETBEANS-1012. However I do not think we need that.
>
> Laszlo Kishalmi
> Volunteer Release Manager of Apache NetBeans 10.0
>
>
> On 11/7/18 7:45 AM, Christian Lenz wrote:
> > And this is the other blocker, which has not yet a PR:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-586
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> > Von: Geertjan Wielenga
> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 7. November 2018 16:36
> > An: dev
> > Betreff: Re: Apache NetBeans 10 vc-3: looks solid
> >
> > Sure, that's true, though in a way it's too early to vote on the sources,
> > since we're still running the survey on the binary.
> >
> > But that thread, indeed, since it's there, and if it's not going to be
> > replaced by a new vote thread, because potentially we'll need to spin up
> > another voting candidate (which doesn't seem likely to me, right now,
> i.e.,
> > I think we have everything we want in vc3), is the one to use.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:03 PM Neil C Smith 
> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 7 Nov 2018 at 11:09, Geertjan Wielenga
> 

AW: AW: Apache NetBeans 10 vc-3: looks solid

[Christian Lenz]

Yeah well, well again. I said only in my opinion, so I’m open to discuss it. 
The one with the tripple click, could be a Corner case, but it never happened 
before and I had the Situation, where the execption window came up which is 
annoying.

The NPE was in my opinion a blocker, to make it clear what there happens and it 
was still annyoing that an NPE came up, with the exception window, after using 
find usages. So this should not happen at all.

586 is the one with the NPE and 1012 is wrong, smth with javadoc, I think you 
mean 1440, Right?

My 2 cents.


Cheers

Chris


Von: Laszlo Kishalmi
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 7. November 2018 17:48
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: AW: Apache NetBeans 10 vc-3: looks solid

Well, well,

As of NETBEANS-586 it was created in April and suddenly after vc3 it became a 
BLOCKER...
As of NETBEANS-1012 It was "just" CRITICAL two days ago. For me the issue 
describes a not that common use case. (Well of course it is really subjective.)

I'm not really happy about that, in the last two week of the release cycle some 
dormant bugs just gets elevated as BLOCKER-s.
If we really need to cut a vc4 on this weekend I'm happy to merge the PR for 
NETBEANS-1012. However I do not think we need that.

Laszlo Kishalmi
Volunteer Release Manager of Apache NetBeans 10.0
  

On 11/7/18 7:45 AM, Christian Lenz wrote:
> And this is the other blocker, which has not yet a PR: 
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-586
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> Von: Geertjan Wielenga
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 7. November 2018 16:36
> An: dev
> Betreff: Re: Apache NetBeans 10 vc-3: looks solid
>
> Sure, that's true, though in a way it's too early to vote on the sources,
> since we're still running the survey on the binary.
>
> But that thread, indeed, since it's there, and if it's not going to be
> replaced by a new vote thread, because potentially we'll need to spin up
> another voting candidate (which doesn't seem likely to me, right now, i.e.,
> I think we have everything we want in vc3), is the one to use.
>
> Gj
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:03 PM Neil C Smith  wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 7 Nov 2018 at 11:09, Geertjan Wielenga
>>  wrote:
>>> That means, unless we find actual real blockers that should prevent
>> Apache
>>> NetBeans 10 from being released, we'll start voting on the sources
>> I'm confused!  So the current 10-vc3 vote thread isn't a vote thread?!
>>
>>> (remember, Apache does not release binaries, it releases sources, at most
>>> the binaries are known as 'convenience binaries
>> Speaking of which, we could do with having a convenience Javadoc
>> archive alongside the binaries by actual release day.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Neil
>>
>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>>
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

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AW: Apache NetBeans 10 vc-3: looks solid

[Christian Lenz]

And this is the other blocker, which has not yet a PR: 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-586


Cheers

Chris



Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 7. November 2018 16:36
An: dev
Betreff: Re: Apache NetBeans 10 vc-3: looks solid

Sure, that's true, though in a way it's too early to vote on the sources,
since we're still running the survey on the binary.

But that thread, indeed, since it's there, and if it's not going to be
replaced by a new vote thread, because potentially we'll need to spin up
another voting candidate (which doesn't seem likely to me, right now, i.e.,
I think we have everything we want in vc3), is the one to use.

Gj


On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:03 PM Neil C Smith  wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Nov 2018 at 11:09, Geertjan Wielenga
>  wrote:
> > That means, unless we find actual real blockers that should prevent
> Apache
> > NetBeans 10 from being released, we'll start voting on the sources
>
> I'm confused!  So the current 10-vc3 vote thread isn't a vote thread?!
>
> > (remember, Apache does not release binaries, it releases sources, at most
> > the binaries are known as 'convenience binaries
>
> Speaking of which, we could do with having a convenience Javadoc
> archive alongside the binaries by actual release day.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

AW: Apache NetBeans 10 vc-3: looks solid

[Christian Lenz]

Afaik, there is still one blocker left with a PR 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/1012


Cheers

Chris



Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 7. November 2018 16:36
An: dev
Betreff: Re: Apache NetBeans 10 vc-3: looks solid

Sure, that's true, though in a way it's too early to vote on the sources,
since we're still running the survey on the binary.

But that thread, indeed, since it's there, and if it's not going to be
replaced by a new vote thread, because potentially we'll need to spin up
another voting candidate (which doesn't seem likely to me, right now, i.e.,
I think we have everything we want in vc3), is the one to use.

Gj


On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 3:03 PM Neil C Smith  wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Nov 2018 at 11:09, Geertjan Wielenga
>  wrote:
> > That means, unless we find actual real blockers that should prevent
> Apache
> > NetBeans 10 from being released, we'll start voting on the sources
>
> I'm confused!  So the current 10-vc3 vote thread isn't a vote thread?!
>
> > (remember, Apache does not release binaries, it releases sources, at most
> > the binaries are known as 'convenience binaries
>
> Speaking of which, we could do with having a convenience Javadoc
> archive alongside the binaries by actual release day.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
>

AW: [Mentors] Removing old vote candidate bits?

[Christian Lenz]

Hey Laszlo,

where do you remove it?


Cheers

Chris



Von: Laszlo Kishalmi
Gesendet: Dienstag, 6. November 2018 20:25
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: [Mentors] Removing old vote candidate bits?

Hi all!

While releasing NetBeans 10.0-vc3 I've removed the old releases as well.


On 11/4/18 12:34 PM, Mark Struberg wrote:
> Hi Jaro!
>
> dist.apache.org should only contain the _latest_ versions.
>
> They will automatically get copied over to archive.a.o. So you should please 
> remove any outdated release bits.
>
> txs and LieGrue,
> strub
>
>
>> Am 04.11.2018 um 09:08 schrieb Laszlo Kishalmi :
>>
>> Well, that's actually partial svn checkout with:
>>
>> svn checkout --depth=immediates
>>
>> can do wonders.
>>
>> On 11/3/18 11:53 PM, Jaroslav Tulach wrote:
>>> Right now the staging area occupies 6.5GB...
>>> -jt
>>>
>>>
>>> ne 4. 11. 2018 v 7:35 odesílatel Jaroslav Tulach 
>>> napsal:
>>>
 Hi.
 I've noticed that there is a significant amount of binaries in the SVM
 staging area at https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/netbeans/
 - I am trying to upload new bits in there, but running `svm update` takes
 half an hour right now and is hardly in the middle. Here is the list of
 directories in the staging area that I find superfluous:

 incubating-netbeans-java

 - incubating-9.0-beta/
 
 
 - incubating-9.0-beta-rc2/
 
 
 - incubating-9.0-beta-rc3/
 
 
 - incubating-9.0-rc1-rc1/
 
 
 - incubating-9.0-vc1/
 
 
 - incubating-9.0-vc2/
 
 
 - incubating-9.0-vc3/
 
 

 incubating-netbeans-platform

 - incubating-9.0-beta/
 
 
 - incubating-9.0-beta-rc2/
 
 
 - incubating-9.0-beta-rc3/
 
 
 - incubating-9.0-rc1-rc1/
 
 
 - incubating-9.0-vc1/
 
 
 - incubating-9.0-vc2/
 
 
 - incubating-9.0-vc3/
 
 

 nothing against keeping 10.0-vcX in there until it is approved and moved
 to release area at
 https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/incubator/netbeans/, but
 keeping there the old 9.0-vcX just complicates working with the staging
 directory.
 Shouldn't they be removed?

 What is the Apache policy, dear mentors? Remove? Keep? Thanks.
 -jt


>> -
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
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>>
>> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>>
>>
>>
>
> -
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>
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>
>
>

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AW: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

[Christian Lenz]

General question, should we collect that stuff that we found for NetBeans 10.0 
vc2 here or whereelse?

I found a new funny Thing, that NB 10.0 VC2 shows me, that a new IDE Version is 
available (NB 9.0). But it could be that it Shows me that, because I activated 
the 8.2 plugin Portal.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Christian Lenz
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 1. November 2018 10:58
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: AW: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

Ok some more Infos About the smooth Scrolling.

Works perfect in:
- Navigator
- Options (tested with Editor and Team tab)
- Project View
- Files View 
- Services View

No Smooth Scrolling/same behaviour as with VC1
- Output View

Hacky/jitty smooth Scrolling
- Editor

So everything was tested with horizontally and vertically Scrolling.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Christian Lenz
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 1. November 2018 10:14
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: AW: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

Hey Eirik,

thx, will test what you said. Will try to make a proper Video of my finger 
Navigation and the Output. Can’t promise, whether I can handle it in the next 
days or not.


Cheers

Chris 



Von: Eirik Bakke
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 1. November 2018 02:35
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: RE: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

I'd love to get a few more Windows users reporting whether the trackpad 
behavior has improved or worsened for them in VC2. We can revert the patch, 
though I suspect this will improve the situation for some users while making it 
worse for others. (On my Thinkpad X1 Carbon 6th gen, the previous behavior was 
unusable.)

Do you see the same issues in scroll panes other than the editor? E.g. the 
Projects pane? (You might need to open up a big project and expand all the 
packages to make it scroll.)

The GIFs are a bit too choppy to see what's really going on (even Chrome does 
not appear smooth). Ideally it would be nice to see how fast your fingers are 
moving as well--maybe you could do a cell phone video showing both your fingers 
on the trackpad and the NetBeans editor scrolling?

I'd love to fix the scroll issue, but I can't think of a way to debug the 
issues you are seeing without having your exact brand of laptop. If you have a 
chance, you could try to instrument 
org/netbeans/swing/plaf/util/SmoothScrollPaneUI.java yourself and see if you 
can find out what's going on. (See 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/881 for the original patch). 
But if you don't have time I'm fine with reverting.

-- Eirik

-Original Message-
From: Christian Lenz  
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2018 6:12 PM
To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Subject: AW: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

And unfortunately the smooth scroll doesn’t work well.
https://imgur.com/a/OmDTmdg (Smooth scrolling NB 10.0 VC2)

It is not that it is not real smooth or doesn’t feel smooth, this is another 
Problem. Here you can see what smooth should be:
(1) https://imgur.com/a/VXoyEGP (Smooth Scrolling in Chrome)
(2) https://imgur.com/a/yVZtX3Z (Smooth Scrolling in VS Code)

Unfortunately, smooth Scrolling doesn’t work in IntelliJ, so I can’t Show it to 
you.

But it is hacky/jitty, it sometimes jumps and the parts, where you can see it 
scrolls only minimal, this is the part where I scroll real wide and not only in 
small steps. So all in all, it should be reverted and needs more investment 
IMHO.

So the implementation doesn’t fit well of what it was shown here: 
https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-76396

I have to say, that I use a Surface Book with a touchpad, so no mouse Wheel 
only to let you know.

Cheers

Chris


P.S. if the Screencasts are not working well, I will try to create a Video.



Von: Eirik Bakke
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 31. Oktober 2018 22:01
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: RE: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

> Well, that's strange. AFAIK I still used the old 9.0 launcher in 
> 10.0vc2
Oh, right. Hmm. Not sure why it happened, then.

-Original Message-
From: Laszlo Kishalmi 
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2018 4:59 PM
To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

Well, that's strange. AFAIK I still used the old 9.0 launcher in 10.0vc2

The new launcher just has been merged into master today. So it will be part of 
vc3

On 10/31/18 1:52 PM, Eirik Bakke wrote:
> I think the Windows Defender thing pops up whenever someone runs an 
> executable that no one (or very few Windows users) has ever run before. Since 
> the launcher executable has recently been updated, this is the case here, but 
> was not the case for the previous launcher (which had been used by many 
> NetBeans users previously).
>
> "Checking downloaded files against a list of files that are well known 
> and downloaded by many Windows users. If the file isn't on that list, 
> SmartScreen shows a warning, advising caution." [1]
>
> So in theory this will go away once a few people have downloaded NetBeans.
>
> -- Eirik
> [1]

AW: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

[Christian Lenz]

Ok some more Infos About the smooth Scrolling.

Works perfect in:
- Navigator
- Options (tested with Editor and Team tab)
- Project View
- Files View 
- Services View

No Smooth Scrolling/same behaviour as with VC1
- Output View

Hacky/jitty smooth Scrolling
- Editor

So everything was tested with horizontally and vertically Scrolling.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Christian Lenz
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 1. November 2018 10:14
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: AW: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

Hey Eirik,

thx, will test what you said. Will try to make a proper Video of my finger 
Navigation and the Output. Can’t promise, whether I can handle it in the next 
days or not.


Cheers

Chris 



Von: Eirik Bakke
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 1. November 2018 02:35
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: RE: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

I'd love to get a few more Windows users reporting whether the trackpad 
behavior has improved or worsened for them in VC2. We can revert the patch, 
though I suspect this will improve the situation for some users while making it 
worse for others. (On my Thinkpad X1 Carbon 6th gen, the previous behavior was 
unusable.)

Do you see the same issues in scroll panes other than the editor? E.g. the 
Projects pane? (You might need to open up a big project and expand all the 
packages to make it scroll.)

The GIFs are a bit too choppy to see what's really going on (even Chrome does 
not appear smooth). Ideally it would be nice to see how fast your fingers are 
moving as well--maybe you could do a cell phone video showing both your fingers 
on the trackpad and the NetBeans editor scrolling?

I'd love to fix the scroll issue, but I can't think of a way to debug the 
issues you are seeing without having your exact brand of laptop. If you have a 
chance, you could try to instrument 
org/netbeans/swing/plaf/util/SmoothScrollPaneUI.java yourself and see if you 
can find out what's going on. (See 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/881 for the original patch). 
But if you don't have time I'm fine with reverting.

-- Eirik

-Original Message-
From: Christian Lenz  
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2018 6:12 PM
To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Subject: AW: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

And unfortunately the smooth scroll doesn’t work well.
https://imgur.com/a/OmDTmdg (Smooth scrolling NB 10.0 VC2)

It is not that it is not real smooth or doesn’t feel smooth, this is another 
Problem. Here you can see what smooth should be:
(1) https://imgur.com/a/VXoyEGP (Smooth Scrolling in Chrome)
(2) https://imgur.com/a/yVZtX3Z (Smooth Scrolling in VS Code)

Unfortunately, smooth Scrolling doesn’t work in IntelliJ, so I can’t Show it to 
you.

But it is hacky/jitty, it sometimes jumps and the parts, where you can see it 
scrolls only minimal, this is the part where I scroll real wide and not only in 
small steps. So all in all, it should be reverted and needs more investment 
IMHO.

So the implementation doesn’t fit well of what it was shown here: 
https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-76396

I have to say, that I use a Surface Book with a touchpad, so no mouse Wheel 
only to let you know.

Cheers

Chris


P.S. if the Screencasts are not working well, I will try to create a Video.



Von: Eirik Bakke
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 31. Oktober 2018 22:01
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: RE: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

> Well, that's strange. AFAIK I still used the old 9.0 launcher in 
> 10.0vc2
Oh, right. Hmm. Not sure why it happened, then.

-Original Message-
From: Laszlo Kishalmi 
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2018 4:59 PM
To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

Well, that's strange. AFAIK I still used the old 9.0 launcher in 10.0vc2

The new launcher just has been merged into master today. So it will be part of 
vc3

On 10/31/18 1:52 PM, Eirik Bakke wrote:
> I think the Windows Defender thing pops up whenever someone runs an 
> executable that no one (or very few Windows users) has ever run before. Since 
> the launcher executable has recently been updated, this is the case here, but 
> was not the case for the previous launcher (which had been used by many 
> NetBeans users previously).
>
> "Checking downloaded files against a list of files that are well known 
> and downloaded by many Windows users. If the file isn't on that list, 
> SmartScreen shows a warning, advising caution." [1]
>
> So in theory this will go away once a few people have downloaded NetBeans.
>
> -- Eirik
> [1]
> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-protection/wi
> ndows-defender-smartscreen/windows-defender-smartscreen-overview
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Christian Lenz 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2018 3:56 PM
> To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org; net...@netbeans.apache.org
> Subject: NetBeans 10.0 vc2
>
> Hey,
>
> I tried to run NB 10.0 VC2. I use the Windows Def

AW: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

[Christian Lenz]

Hey Eirik,

thx, will test what you said. Will try to make a proper Video of my finger 
Navigation and the Output. Can’t promise, whether I can handle it in the next 
days or not.


Cheers

Chris 



Von: Eirik Bakke
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 1. November 2018 02:35
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: RE: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

I'd love to get a few more Windows users reporting whether the trackpad 
behavior has improved or worsened for them in VC2. We can revert the patch, 
though I suspect this will improve the situation for some users while making it 
worse for others. (On my Thinkpad X1 Carbon 6th gen, the previous behavior was 
unusable.)

Do you see the same issues in scroll panes other than the editor? E.g. the 
Projects pane? (You might need to open up a big project and expand all the 
packages to make it scroll.)

The GIFs are a bit too choppy to see what's really going on (even Chrome does 
not appear smooth). Ideally it would be nice to see how fast your fingers are 
moving as well--maybe you could do a cell phone video showing both your fingers 
on the trackpad and the NetBeans editor scrolling?

I'd love to fix the scroll issue, but I can't think of a way to debug the 
issues you are seeing without having your exact brand of laptop. If you have a 
chance, you could try to instrument 
org/netbeans/swing/plaf/util/SmoothScrollPaneUI.java yourself and see if you 
can find out what's going on. (See 
https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/881 for the original patch). 
But if you don't have time I'm fine with reverting.

-- Eirik

-Original Message-
From: Christian Lenz  
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2018 6:12 PM
To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Subject: AW: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

And unfortunately the smooth scroll doesn’t work well.
https://imgur.com/a/OmDTmdg (Smooth scrolling NB 10.0 VC2)

It is not that it is not real smooth or doesn’t feel smooth, this is another 
Problem. Here you can see what smooth should be:
(1) https://imgur.com/a/VXoyEGP (Smooth Scrolling in Chrome)
(2) https://imgur.com/a/yVZtX3Z (Smooth Scrolling in VS Code)

Unfortunately, smooth Scrolling doesn’t work in IntelliJ, so I can’t Show it to 
you.

But it is hacky/jitty, it sometimes jumps and the parts, where you can see it 
scrolls only minimal, this is the part where I scroll real wide and not only in 
small steps. So all in all, it should be reverted and needs more investment 
IMHO.

So the implementation doesn’t fit well of what it was shown here: 
https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-76396

I have to say, that I use a Surface Book with a touchpad, so no mouse Wheel 
only to let you know.

Cheers

Chris


P.S. if the Screencasts are not working well, I will try to create a Video.



Von: Eirik Bakke
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 31. Oktober 2018 22:01
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: RE: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

> Well, that's strange. AFAIK I still used the old 9.0 launcher in 
> 10.0vc2
Oh, right. Hmm. Not sure why it happened, then.

-Original Message-
From: Laszlo Kishalmi 
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2018 4:59 PM
To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

Well, that's strange. AFAIK I still used the old 9.0 launcher in 10.0vc2

The new launcher just has been merged into master today. So it will be part of 
vc3

On 10/31/18 1:52 PM, Eirik Bakke wrote:
> I think the Windows Defender thing pops up whenever someone runs an 
> executable that no one (or very few Windows users) has ever run before. Since 
> the launcher executable has recently been updated, this is the case here, but 
> was not the case for the previous launcher (which had been used by many 
> NetBeans users previously).
>
> "Checking downloaded files against a list of files that are well known 
> and downloaded by many Windows users. If the file isn't on that list, 
> SmartScreen shows a warning, advising caution." [1]
>
> So in theory this will go away once a few people have downloaded NetBeans.
>
> -- Eirik
> [1]
> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-protection/wi
> ndows-defender-smartscreen/windows-defender-smartscreen-overview
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Christian Lenz 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2018 3:56 PM
> To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org; net...@netbeans.apache.org
> Subject: NetBeans 10.0 vc2
>
> Hey,
>
> I tried to run NB 10.0 VC2. I use the Windows Defender SmartScreen and it was 
> still activated since I don’t know. NetBeans 8.2, NetBeans 9.0 and NetBeans 
> 10.0 VC1 opened very well (NB 10.0 VC1 with the command line but I think that 
> was fixed). Now when I start NB 10.0 VC2 I got the Windows Defender 
> SmartScreen prompt that my PC Prevent the start of an unknown app with only 
> one call to Action called „Don’t execute“. There is a link for „More 
> Information“ where I can still run it. Similar message on pages with 

AW: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

[Christian Lenz]

And unfortunately the smooth scroll doesn’t work well.
https://imgur.com/a/OmDTmdg (Smooth scrolling NB 10.0 VC2)

It is not that it is not real smooth or doesn’t feel smooth, this is another 
Problem. Here you can see what smooth should be:
(1) https://imgur.com/a/VXoyEGP (Smooth Scrolling in Chrome)
(2) https://imgur.com/a/yVZtX3Z (Smooth Scrolling in VS Code)

Unfortunately, smooth Scrolling doesn’t work in IntelliJ, so I can’t Show it to 
you.

But it is hacky/jitty, it sometimes jumps and the parts, where you can see it 
scrolls only minimal, this is the part where I scroll real wide and not only in 
small steps. So all in all, it should be reverted and needs more investment 
IMHO.

So the implementation doesn’t fit well of what it was shown here: 
https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-76396

I have to say, that I use a Surface Book with a touchpad, so no mouse Wheel 
only to let you know.

Cheers

Chris


P.S. if the Screencasts are not working well, I will try to create a Video.



Von: Eirik Bakke
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 31. Oktober 2018 22:01
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: RE: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

> Well, that's strange. AFAIK I still used the old 9.0 launcher in 10.0vc2
Oh, right. Hmm. Not sure why it happened, then.

-Original Message-
From: Laszlo Kishalmi  
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2018 4:59 PM
To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

Well, that's strange. AFAIK I still used the old 9.0 launcher in 10.0vc2

The new launcher just has been merged into master today. So it will be part of 
vc3

On 10/31/18 1:52 PM, Eirik Bakke wrote:
> I think the Windows Defender thing pops up whenever someone runs an 
> executable that no one (or very few Windows users) has ever run before. Since 
> the launcher executable has recently been updated, this is the case here, but 
> was not the case for the previous launcher (which had been used by many 
> NetBeans users previously).
>
> "Checking downloaded files against a list of files that are well known 
> and downloaded by many Windows users. If the file isn't on that list, 
> SmartScreen shows a warning, advising caution." [1]
>
> So in theory this will go away once a few people have downloaded NetBeans.
>
> -- Eirik
> [1] 
> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-protection/wi
> ndows-defender-smartscreen/windows-defender-smartscreen-overview
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Christian Lenz 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2018 3:56 PM
> To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org; net...@netbeans.apache.org
> Subject: NetBeans 10.0 vc2
>
> Hey,
>
> I tried to run NB 10.0 VC2. I use the Windows Defender SmartScreen and it was 
> still activated since I don’t know. NetBeans 8.2, NetBeans 9.0 and NetBeans 
> 10.0 VC1 opened very well (NB 10.0 VC1 with the command line but I think that 
> was fixed). Now when I start NB 10.0 VC2 I got the Windows Defender 
> SmartScreen prompt that my PC Prevent the start of an unknown app with only 
> one call to Action called „Don’t execute“. There is a link for „More 
> Information“ where I can still run it. Similar message on pages with http and 
> HTTPS.
>
> So IMHO smth weird happened from VC1 to VC2. Maybe with the HIDPI stuff? Only 
> guessing, I don’t know.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> dev-h...@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>

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WG: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

[Christian Lenz]

My env. Is Windows 10 64bit, latest update.
JDK 10.0.2


Cheers

Chris


Von: Christian Lenz
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 31. Oktober 2018 20:57
An: d...@netbeans.apache.org; net...@netbeans.apache.org
Betreff: WG: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

Ok the command prompt when you open NetBeans 10.0 vc2 is still there.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Christian Lenz
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 31. Oktober 2018 20:55
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org; net...@netbeans.apache.org
Betreff: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

Hey,

I tried to run NB 10.0 VC2. I use the Windows Defender SmartScreen and it was 
still activated since I don’t know. NetBeans 8.2, NetBeans 9.0 and NetBeans 
10.0 VC1 opened very well (NB 10.0 VC1 with the command line but I think that 
was fixed). Now when I start NB 10.0 VC2 I got the Windows Defender SmartScreen 
prompt that my PC Prevent the start of an unknown app with only one call to 
Action called „Don’t execute“. There is a link for „More Information“ where I 
can still run it. Similar message on pages with http and HTTPS.

So IMHO smth weird happened from VC1 to VC2. Maybe with the HIDPI stuff? Only 
guessing, I don’t know.


Cheers

Chris 

WG: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

[Christian Lenz]

Ok the command prompt when you open NetBeans 10.0 vc2 is still there.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Christian Lenz
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 31. Oktober 2018 20:55
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org; net...@netbeans.apache.org
Betreff: NetBeans 10.0 vc2

Hey,

I tried to run NB 10.0 VC2. I use the Windows Defender SmartScreen and it was 
still activated since I don’t know. NetBeans 8.2, NetBeans 9.0 and NetBeans 
10.0 VC1 opened very well (NB 10.0 VC1 with the command line but I think that 
was fixed). Now when I start NB 10.0 VC2 I got the Windows Defender SmartScreen 
prompt that my PC Prevent the start of an unknown app with only one call to 
Action called „Don’t execute“. There is a link for „More Information“ where I 
can still run it. Similar message on pages with http and HTTPS.

So IMHO smth weird happened from VC1 to VC2. Maybe with the HIDPI stuff? Only 
guessing, I don’t know.


Cheers

Chris 

NetBeans 10.0 vc2

[Christian Lenz]

Hey,

I tried to run NB 10.0 VC2. I use the Windows Defender SmartScreen and it was 
still activated since I don’t know. NetBeans 8.2, NetBeans 9.0 and NetBeans 
10.0 VC1 opened very well (NB 10.0 VC1 with the command line but I think that 
was fixed). Now when I start NB 10.0 VC2 I got the Windows Defender SmartScreen 
prompt that my PC Prevent the start of an unknown app with only one call to 
Action called „Don’t execute“. There is a link for „More Information“ where I 
can still run it. Similar message on pages with http and HTTPS.

So IMHO smth weird happened from VC1 to VC2. Maybe with the HIDPI stuff? Only 
guessing, I don’t know.


Cheers

Chris 

AW: recommendation for language support

[Christian Lenz]

I switched from JavaCC to ANTLR but for my case Nothing is good  (Bringing C# 
to NetBeans, there is no real lexer file). Someone said that the future of 
JavaCC is unknown so ANTLR is better IMHO to use and better maintained. Here 
you can find a repo for a lot of ANTLR Grammar files: 
https://github.com/antlr/grammars-v4

It would be nice to see more JFlex too. It seems to be a good alternative to 
ANTLR. IntelliJ uses it more or less official to bring a new language to their 
platform.

Make your own choice: https://github.com/antlr/antlr4 and 
https://github.com/jflex-de/jflex 


Cheers

Chris



Von: Mario Schroeder
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 31. Oktober 2018 08:19
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: recommendation for language support

Thanks a lot to all of you!

Actually I only want syntax coloring.
So I will try my best with ANTLR since I already found a book about it.

Seems like I can get support when I'm stuck;-)

Am Mi., 31. Okt. 2018, 07:47 hat Emilian Bold 
geschrieben:

> Getting the AST from your ANTLR grammar is super helpful.
>
> --emi
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 7:28 AM Peter Blemel  wrote:
>
> > Hi Mario,
> >
> > I have written 3 language plugins for Netbeans.  I think the answer to
> > your question depends on what you want to do, and what you already have
> in
> > hand.
> >
> > The Netbeans platform differentiates between support for lexing and
> > support for parsing.  While I have not used JFlex, JFlex is a lexer /
> token
> > generator.  You could add token coloring to NetBeans using it (glossing
> > over details about how to adapt JFlex tokens to Netbeans).  Unlike a
> parser
> > generator, JFlex won't parse syntax which by definition limits the
> > functionality you'll be able to implement for your language users in the
> > IDE.  As an aside, all of the JFlex web pages I've found without digging
> > too deeply are circa 2011.
> >
> > JavaCC and ANTLR are parser generators that create parsers that in turn
> > generate syntax trees (again, glossing over important implementation
> > details).  In addition to finding errors in the users' input to support
> > features like markup in the editor (as opposed to just coloring tokens
> with
> > a lexer), components such as the Navigator need data that a parser can
> > produce.
> >
> > In my case my integrations use JavaCC for no other reason other than that
> > I had already written the parsers for my languages in JavaCC (first and
> > second order predicate logic languages, and a music language), but having
> > walked through the ANTLR tutorials it seems to be a matter of personal
> > preference at the end of the day.  My suggestion is use whichever one
> > you're familiar with, or in my case already have code for which saved me
> > the step of re-writing grammars for different parser generators.
> >
> > I hope to be trying to migrate my language support to the Apache Netbeans
> > platform soon, but other things have been persistently stuck at the top
> of
> > my stack :-/.  At that point I will be able to speak to issues regarding
> > JavaCC support moving forward.
> >
> > Best,
> > Peter
> >
> > 
> > From: Mario Schroeder 
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 1:37 PM
> > To: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: recommendation for language support
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I would appreciate when someone could set me on the right track. I'm
> > wondering what is the best way to write a plugin with a support for a new
> > language.
> >
> > I have found this old tutorial:
> > http://wiki.netbeans.org/How_to_create_support_for_a_new_language
> > It uses JavaCC. The tutorial is linked to another one, which makes use of
> > ANTLR. When I have a look at NetBeans source code, there are some
> templates
> > written with JFlex. So I'm confused. Which one should I use?
> >
> > I would prefer ANTLR, since there seems to be more documentation for it.
> > Does anyone have a recommendation?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Mario
> >
>

AW: Processes panel

[Christian Lenz]

Hey Chris,

can you explain it a bit more detailed please?


Cheers

Chris 



Von: Luff,Chris
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 31. Oktober 2018 09:15
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Processes panel

Anybody looked at extending the processes to a panel? Whilst not a problem, 
would be nice to see them all without having to click upon the process bar. If 
no one has done it, I’ll look at a plugin or feature functionality…preference?

Associate Principal Software Engineer | IP Development - Care Insight and 
Delivery Dev | chris.l...@cerner.com | Cerner 
Limited



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AW: High level status of Apache NetBeans

[Christian Lenz]

Ashes on my head, you are Right. Thx to pointing it up, one more time :D



Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. Oktober 2018 10:13
An: dev
Betreff: Re: High level status of Apache NetBeans

At this point, you really shouldn't be asking this anymore -- not sure how
often I have provided a link to this page. :-)

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Apache+Transition

You'll see community-ruby is in there as well as contrib. In the interview,
I think I made a mistake about Python, which I'm not sure was Oracle's to
begin with and so we need to track that down (Ralph and I are two of those
who worked on it) and see about how and if to contribute to Apache.

Gj


On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 9:25 AM Christian Lenz 
wrote:

> Great interview. Got new Infos, didn’t know that Ruby and Python will be
> donated to Apache too, if I’ve understood it Right.
> What About the contrib repo? There are a lot of cool and nice stuff, which
> is still not part of the core.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Chris
>
> On 2018/10/24 22:13:41, Geertjan Wielenga 
> wrote:
> > FYI: Small interview with me at Oracle Code One today:>
> >
> > https://www.pscp.tv/w/1YqxoglXEYExv>
> >
> > On Twitter:>
> >
> > https://twitter.com/OracleDevs/status/1055206463809843200>
> >
> > Thanks,>
> >
> > Gj>
> >
>
>
>

Re: High level status of Apache NetBeans

[Christian Lenz]

Great interview. Got new Infos, didn’t know that Ruby and Python will be 
donated to Apache too, if I’ve understood it Right.
What About the contrib repo? There are a lot of cool and nice stuff, which is 
still not part of the core.


Cheers

Chris

On 2018/10/24 22:13:41, Geertjan Wielenga  wrote: 
> FYI: Small interview with me at Oracle Code One today:> 
> 
> https://www.pscp.tv/w/1YqxoglXEYExv> 
> 
> On Twitter:> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/OracleDevs/status/1055206463809843200> 
> 
> Thanks,> 
> 
> Gj> 
> 

AW: NetBeans 10 vs NetBeans 10.0

[Christian Lenz]

That’s why I added this 

➢ …If we will decide to deliver stuff in between the official release cycles

Just saying.



Von: Neil C Smith
Gesendet: Montag, 29. Oktober 2018 00:19
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: NetBeans 10 vs NetBeans 10.0

On Sun, 28 Oct 2018, 21:27 Christian Lenz,  wrote:

> But bugfix will be 10.0.1 and new features will be 10.1 like in NetBeans
> 8.1 or 2.
>

As far as I recall what was agreed the new features will be in NetBeans 11
in 3 months time.

Best wishes,

Neil

>

AW: NetBeans 10 vs NetBeans 10.0

[Christian Lenz]

But bugfix will be 10.0.1 and new features will be 10.1 like in NetBeans 8.1 or 
2. Or we will use Patch n for such Things. If we will decide to deliver stuff 
in between the official release cycles. There is no Need to treat it internal 
as 10.0 and external as 10, it is a bit of confusing.


Cheers

Chris



Von: Neil C Smith
Gesendet: Samstag, 27. Oktober 2018 13:27
An: Christian Lenz
Cc: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org; NetCAT team
Betreff: Re: NetBeans 10 vs NetBeans 10.0

On Sat, 27 Oct 2018 at 12:14, Christian Lenz  wrote:
>
> Hey, I would like to bring this Topic up, Maybe it is a minor but yeah still 
> discussable.

Well, yes, it's a minor! ;-)

In the (recent) past the main number made sense in the context of
alignment with the JDK.  And therefore the minor number was something
major.

With our new release schedule, I personally think it's better branded
as NetBeans 10, and we use 10.0, 10.1, etc. in case we decide for some
reason we need to roll a bug fix release during the NetBeans 10
window.  ie.  NetBeans 10.0 internally, NetBeans 10 to the world.

Best wishes,

Neil

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AW: Possible to add smooths scrolling to NB 10.0?

[Christian Lenz]

Great Laszlo,

thx 


Cheers

Chris



Von: Laszlo Kishalmi
Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Oktober 2018 18:44
An: net...@netbeans.apache.org
Cc: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Possible to add smooths scrolling to NB 10.0?

Dear all,

As there was no objection, I'm going to cherry pick the smooth scrolling 
into our release100 branch.


On 10/22/18 9:21 AM, Laszlo Kishalmi wrote:
> Hi NetCat Team!
>
> What do you say about this?
>
> Talking with Geertjan we are about to cut another VC at the end of 
> this week or early next week.
>
> That one is going to have the new Windows Launchers as well.
>
> On 10/15/18 5:04 PM, Glenn Holmer wrote:
>> Hello NetCATters,
>>
>> If you haven't seen it, this came up on the dev list:
>>
>> On 10/15/2018 11:17 AM, Laszlo Kishalmi wrote:
>>> The real question is how it is affect the current NetCat process. If 
>>> the
>>> NetCat people fine with this cherry pick, then I'm good to go with 
>>> this.
>> Can the people who've completed some editor testing have a look and make
>> sure this doesn't introduce any regressions? And those who reviewed the
>> test spec, does this need any additional wording to verify that the
>> feature works properly? The JIRA link below explains what's being 
>> changed.
>>
>>> On 10/15/2018 03:12 AM, Christian Lenz wrote:
>>>> in General I thought, that this feature:
>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-49 went into the NB
>>>> 10.0 branch but it didn’t. Is it possible to cherry pick it anyway to
>>>> bring it up into NB 10.0 or not? Here is the PR for it:
>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/881 it was still
>>>> merged so it Needs a Cherry Pick.

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NetBeans 10 vs NetBeans 10.0

[Christian Lenz]

Hey, I would like to bring this Topic up, Maybe it is a minor but yeah still 
discussable.
Often People Talking About NetBeans 10 or NetBeans 10.0. Often we are using 
both as you can see inside of the Jira tickets and Mailing List and public 
Chanels, etc. Our Branch is called nb100 which Points to 10.0 not to 10. Like 
the history of NetBeans it is Always that we use *.0. 6.0, 7.0, 8.0 and last 
but not least 9.0. (Branding, Splashscreen, etc.) Why did we stopped here?

We should be consistent. There is no reason to remove the *.0 after we reached 
10. So for me it is clear, #bringbackthezero we already have it, only the 
Splash screen, About Dialog and some titles etc. uses 10, instead of 100 or 
10.0. It is not for me to be for or against 10.0 or, but we should be 
consistent in using 10 OR 10.0 over the rest.
My 2 cents.


Cheers

Chris

AW: Possible to add smooths scrolling to NB 10.0?

[Christian Lenz]

Thx Glenn to letting everyone know  Would be great to see this big enhancement 
into NB 10.0.


Cheers

Chris


Von: Glenn Holmer
Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. Oktober 2018 02:04
An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org; net...@netbeans.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Possible to add smooths scrolling to NB 10.0?

Hello NetCATters,

If you haven't seen it, this came up on the dev list:

On 10/15/2018 11:17 AM, Laszlo Kishalmi wrote:
> The real question is how it is affect the current NetCat process. If the
> NetCat people fine with this cherry pick, then I'm good to go with this.

Can the people who've completed some editor testing have a look and make
sure this doesn't introduce any regressions? And those who reviewed the
test spec, does this need any additional wording to verify that the
feature works properly? The JIRA link below explains what's being changed.

> On 10/15/2018 03:12 AM, Christian Lenz wrote:
>> in General I thought, that this feature:
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-49 went into the NB
>> 10.0 branch but it didn’t. Is it possible to cherry pick it anyway to
>> bring it up into NB 10.0 or not? Here is the PR for it:
>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans/pull/881 it was still
>> merged so it Needs a Cherry Pick.

-- 
Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
"After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."

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