Re: New names of repositories
As i said, i am not advocating breaking up repositories. It would help modulartiy, but is not worth the price.Submodules refer to versioned code so changes to the submodule have no impact to the built code until until the version referenced by the submodule is updated. I think that would alleviate most of the concerns that you expressed.However, submodules have their own issues I wouldn't ever attempt that again either. They are a maintenance nightmare.Sent from my Galaxy Original message From: Nathan Hartman Date: 11/19/22 8:52 PM (GMT-06:00) To: dev@nuttx.apache.org Subject: Re: New names of repositories On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 10:26 AM Gregory Nutt wrote:> On 11/19/2022 9:02 AM, Tomek CEDRO wrote:> > On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 3:53 PM Thiago Costa de Paiva wrote:> >> From these, the valid argument is that it would be non-standard (not a> top level name) related to Appache rules, which I think is indeed not> acceptable. It would not imply any source code organization change nor> submodules:> >>> >> git clone /nuttx/core nuttx> >> git clone /nuttx/apps apps> > The use of submodules was also considered before (I also proposed> > that) and turned out to be a bad idea :-) :-)>> At one time, I was moving all major NuttX components into sub-modules> in order to better modularize the system. I had arch/ and> Documentation/ moved into their own repositories.>> But I got endless complaints from users. Everyone hated this so I ended> up merging these back into nuttx/. That was a tough job because of the> duplicated history in the nuttx/, arch/, and Documentation/> repositories. I really wouldn't recommend going through that again.I strongly recommend AGAINST splitting the NuttX repo into multiple repos.There are many reasons for this but here is a big one: You'll lose atomicchangesets, which is a very important part of version control. One of thebiggest problems with CVS, which all modern version control systems aredesigned to avoid, is that changes that touched multiple files were notatomic; each file had its own version number, so you needed an out-of-bandway to keep track of which changes made up a given changeset. Compare how asingle git commit hash number re-creates an exact replica of the entiretree as it looked when that changeset was committed. Splitting up the repois a step in the wrong direction.That said, nuttx and nuttx-apps *should* remain separate for the followingreason: because the apps are, by their nature, separate and optional. It isimportant that users will always be able to supply their own appsrepository, while our apps repository can be seen as demonstration,testing, a baseline against which to build a custom apps, an example of howto build a custom apps, and even as documentation in the form of sourcecode of how to write programs that run on NuttX. But whatever happens,nuttx-apps should remain separate from nuttx.CheersNathan
Re: New names of repositories
Maybe if we chose simply nuttx + nuttx-apps then it would be easier to separate step by step nuttx-doc, nuttx-cpu from "just" nuttx? Sooo manyy chooiiccesss :-) :-) On Sun, Nov 20, 2022 at 12:01 AM Tomek CEDRO wrote: > > On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 9:01 PM Alin Jerpelea wrote: > > how about > > nuttx-core > > nuttx-apps > > rtos part would clearly say what is NuttX even / especially for people > who do not know it yet, i.e. FreeRTOS is self-explanatory :-) > > thus nuttx-rtos + nuttx-apps / nuttx_rtos + nuttx_apps whatever fits > required conventions seems more intuitive :-) > > core looks more like a library or a coredump and does not really > directly leads to rtos :-) > > if project repo split is planned at some point then it could be > nuttx-kernel, nuttx-libs, nuttx-drv, nuttx-cpu-riscv, > nuttx-board-esp32c3, nuttx-doc, nuttx-apps, etc, maybe even higher or > lower granularity :-) > > but whatever works and is more desired would be fine i am sure that > there will be ways to overcome toolchains limitations when stuff > inside fits requirements :-) > > -- > CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
Re: New names of repositories
On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 9:01 PM Alin Jerpelea wrote: > how about > nuttx-core > nuttx-apps rtos part would clearly say what is NuttX even / especially for people who do not know it yet, i.e. FreeRTOS is self-explanatory :-) thus nuttx-rtos + nuttx-apps / nuttx_rtos + nuttx_apps whatever fits required conventions seems more intuitive :-) core looks more like a library or a coredump and does not really directly leads to rtos :-) if project repo split is planned at some point then it could be nuttx-kernel, nuttx-libs, nuttx-drv, nuttx-cpu-riscv, nuttx-board-esp32c3, nuttx-doc, nuttx-apps, etc, maybe even higher or lower granularity :-) but whatever works and is more desired would be fine i am sure that there will be ways to overcome toolchains limitations when stuff inside fits requirements :-) -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
Re: Github check/Ubuntu version
It has to do with the CI configuration, but should not be breaking anything. I'll put up a PR today to bump the version we use. The build itself should be running in a 22.04 container already. Thanks for the reminder! --Brennan On Sat, Nov 19, 2022, 12:17 PM Tim Hardisty wrote: > The checks on the few PRs I've done give an error " The ubuntu-18.04 > environment is deprecated, consider switching to > ubuntu-20.04(ubuntu-latest), or ubuntu-22.04 instead." > > Is that me (my machine is on 22.04 though) or a script/github problem? > > >
Github check/Ubuntu version
The checks on the few PRs I've done give an error " The ubuntu-18.04 environment is deprecated, consider switching to ubuntu-20.04(ubuntu-latest), or ubuntu-22.04 instead." Is that me (my machine is on 22.04 though) or a script/github problem?
Re: New names of repositories
how about nuttx-core nuttx-apps then we locally clone to nurtx_core nuttx_apps Best regards Alim On Sat, 19 Nov 2022, 16:50 Jukka Laitinen, wrote: > +1 for > > nuttx > nuttx-apps > > Petro Karashchenko kirjoitti lauantai 19. marraskuuta 2022: > > Hi, > > > > My two cents are that I think we should not rock the boat and just remove > > "incubator-" prefix from current repos that results in: > > > > nuttx > > nuttx-apps > > > > Best regards, > > Petro > > > > сб, 19 лист. 2022 р. о 17:03 Tomek CEDRO пише: > > > > > On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 3:53 PM Thiago Costa de Paiva wrote: > > > > From these, the valid argument is that it would be non-standard (not > a > > > top level name) related to Appache rules, which I think is indeed not > > > acceptable. It would not imply any source code organization change nor > > > submodules: > > > > > > > > git clone /nuttx/core nuttx > > > > git clone /nuttx/apps apps > > > > > > The use of submodules was also considered before (I also proposed > > > that) and turned out to be a bad idea :-) :-) > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, from all the discussion, since hyphens should not be used > > > according to what Greg said previously, I think we have only two > options: > > > > > > > > nuttx > > > > nuttx_apps > > > > > > > > > Then you are pro option 1 :-) > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 10:47 PM Nathan Hartman > > > wrote: > > > > (..) > > > > In the discussion from a few months ago [1] several reasons were > given > > > > why not to use hyphens in the names (they confuse some tools and > > > > underscores are safer). > > > > > > > > Two possibilities for repo names were given: > > > > 1) nuttx and nuttx_apps > > > > or > > > > 2) nuttx_rtos and nuttx_apps > > > > > > Based on my experience I am pro 2 choice as it clearly distinguishes > > > rtos part from the apps part, is a self explanatory at first sight, > > > and is more compatible with the potential use cases.. also as Gregory > > > explained this nuttx_rtos part is really the whole RTOS part :-) > > > > > > Best regards :-) > > > Tomek > > > > > > -- > > > CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info > > > > >
Re: New names of repositories
+1 for nuttx nuttx-apps Petro Karashchenko kirjoitti lauantai 19. marraskuuta 2022: > Hi, > > My two cents are that I think we should not rock the boat and just remove > "incubator-" prefix from current repos that results in: > > nuttx > nuttx-apps > > Best regards, > Petro > > сб, 19 лист. 2022 р. о 17:03 Tomek CEDRO пише: > > > On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 3:53 PM Thiago Costa de Paiva wrote: > > > From these, the valid argument is that it would be non-standard (not a > > top level name) related to Appache rules, which I think is indeed not > > acceptable. It would not imply any source code organization change nor > > submodules: > > > > > > git clone /nuttx/core nuttx > > > git clone /nuttx/apps apps > > > > The use of submodules was also considered before (I also proposed > > that) and turned out to be a bad idea :-) :-) > > > > > > > Anyway, from all the discussion, since hyphens should not be used > > according to what Greg said previously, I think we have only two options: > > > > > > nuttx > > > nuttx_apps > > > > > > Then you are pro option 1 :-) > > > > > > On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 10:47 PM Nathan Hartman > > wrote: > > > (..) > > > In the discussion from a few months ago [1] several reasons were given > > > why not to use hyphens in the names (they confuse some tools and > > > underscores are safer). > > > > > > Two possibilities for repo names were given: > > > 1) nuttx and nuttx_apps > > > or > > > 2) nuttx_rtos and nuttx_apps > > > > Based on my experience I am pro 2 choice as it clearly distinguishes > > rtos part from the apps part, is a self explanatory at first sight, > > and is more compatible with the potential use cases.. also as Gregory > > explained this nuttx_rtos part is really the whole RTOS part :-) > > > > Best regards :-) > > Tomek > > > > -- > > CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info > > >
Re: New names of repositories
Hi, My two cents are that I think we should not rock the boat and just remove "incubator-" prefix from current repos that results in: nuttx nuttx-apps Best regards, Petro сб, 19 лист. 2022 р. о 17:03 Tomek CEDRO пише: > On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 3:53 PM Thiago Costa de Paiva wrote: > > From these, the valid argument is that it would be non-standard (not a > top level name) related to Appache rules, which I think is indeed not > acceptable. It would not imply any source code organization change nor > submodules: > > > > git clone /nuttx/core nuttx > > git clone /nuttx/apps apps > > The use of submodules was also considered before (I also proposed > that) and turned out to be a bad idea :-) :-) > > > > Anyway, from all the discussion, since hyphens should not be used > according to what Greg said previously, I think we have only two options: > > > > nuttx > > nuttx_apps > > > Then you are pro option 1 :-) > > > On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 10:47 PM Nathan Hartman > wrote: > > (..) > > In the discussion from a few months ago [1] several reasons were given > > why not to use hyphens in the names (they confuse some tools and > > underscores are safer). > > > > Two possibilities for repo names were given: > > 1) nuttx and nuttx_apps > > or > > 2) nuttx_rtos and nuttx_apps > > Based on my experience I am pro 2 choice as it clearly distinguishes > rtos part from the apps part, is a self explanatory at first sight, > and is more compatible with the potential use cases.. also as Gregory > explained this nuttx_rtos part is really the whole RTOS part :-) > > Best regards :-) > Tomek > > -- > CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info >
Re: New names of repositories
On 11/19/2022 9:02 AM, Tomek CEDRO wrote: On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 3:53 PM Thiago Costa de Paiva wrote: From these, the valid argument is that it would be non-standard (not a top level name) related to Appache rules, which I think is indeed not acceptable. It would not imply any source code organization change nor submodules: git clone /nuttx/core nuttx git clone /nuttx/apps apps The use of submodules was also considered before (I also proposed that) and turned out to be a bad idea :-) :-) At one time, I was moving all major NuttX components into sub-modules in order to better modularize the system. I had arch/ and Documentation/ moved into their own repositories. But I got endless complaints from users. Everyone hated this so I ended up merging these back into nuttx/. That was a tough job because of the duplicated history in the nuttx/, arch/, and Documentation/ repositories. I really wouldn't recommend going through that again. Anyway, from all the discussion, since hyphens should not be used according to what Greg said previously, I think we have only two options: nuttx nuttx_apps Then you are pro option 1 :-) I was an underscore fan. There are reasons to use underscores and reasons to use hyphens -- none are very compelling so I suppose this really ends up being just a personal preference. But I think NuttX should follow the pattern of other 2.4K Apache projects. See https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf . All naming follows these rules: * The repository name begins with the project name (I see a couple of exceptions in old projects like NetBeans) * If there is more than one repository, the project name is followed by a hyphen and a component name * ONLY hyphens are used. In all cases, hyphens are used to separate words in the repository name. There is not a single usage of underscore for this in the all 2.4K repository name. Example: mynewt-core.git I think it is important to be consistent with other Apache project naming. Therefore, I am now a hyphen advocate. On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 10:47 PM Nathan Hartman wrote: (..) In the discussion from a few months ago [1] several reasons were given why not to use hyphens in the names (they confuse some tools and underscores are safer). Two possibilities for repo names were given: 1) nuttx and nuttx_apps or 2) nuttx_rtos and nuttx_apps Based on my experience I am pro 2 choice as it clearly distinguishes rtos part from the apps part, is a self explanatory at first sight, and is more compatible with the potential use cases.. also as Gregory explained this nuttx_rtos part is really the whole RTOS part :-) If we are like other projects and use hyphens, these would be: 1) nuttx and nuttx-apps, or 2) nuttx-rtos and nuttx-apps Since NuttX is the name of the RTOS. nuttx-rtos is kind of redundant, but not terrible.
Re: New names of repositories
On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 3:53 PM Thiago Costa de Paiva wrote: > From these, the valid argument is that it would be non-standard (not a top > level name) related to Appache rules, which I think is indeed not acceptable. > It would not imply any source code organization change nor submodules: > > git clone /nuttx/core nuttx > git clone /nuttx/apps apps The use of submodules was also considered before (I also proposed that) and turned out to be a bad idea :-) :-) > Anyway, from all the discussion, since hyphens should not be used according > to what Greg said previously, I think we have only two options: > > nuttx > nuttx_apps Then you are pro option 1 :-) On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 10:47 PM Nathan Hartman wrote: > (..) > In the discussion from a few months ago [1] several reasons were given > why not to use hyphens in the names (they confuse some tools and > underscores are safer). > > Two possibilities for repo names were given: > 1) nuttx and nuttx_apps > or > 2) nuttx_rtos and nuttx_apps Based on my experience I am pro 2 choice as it clearly distinguishes rtos part from the apps part, is a self explanatory at first sight, and is more compatible with the potential use cases.. also as Gregory explained this nuttx_rtos part is really the whole RTOS part :-) Best regards :-) Tomek -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
Re: New names of repositories
On 11/19/2022 8:31 AM, Tomek CEDRO wrote: As we have this honor and pleasure to talk directly with the NuttX RTOS author.. maybe really we should listen to Gregory Nutt himself as the most experienced person in the room? There was a discussion in this area and the choice is strongly reasoned not just a matter of personal preference.. there are technical reasons why this naming convention is most compatible with environments where NuttX can be used.. Experience and capability is bell-shaped curve. I used to be pretty good when I was young, but not so much now. There are younger people in this list who can think me in circles. Ultimately, naming does come down to personal preference - constrained by good sense and "the way things are". That is inescapable. Which is not to say that naming is not important. Someone (I forget who) was once quoted as saying something like, "If you say it is only a namespace problem, then you don't understand the problem."
Re: New names of repositories
If some toolchain has an issue with hyphen separated name, then it should be solved in scope of that toolchain. In particular, instructions for that particular toolchain should suggest different clone name as a workaround. One broken toolchain should not lead to violating of URL naming standards. On Sat, 19 Nov 2022, 15:53 Thiago Costa de Paiva, wrote: > From these, the valid argument is that it would be non-standard (not a top > level name) related to Appache rules, which I think is indeed not > acceptable. It would not imply any source code organization change nor > submodules: > > git clone /nuttx/core nuttx > git clone /nuttx/apps apps > > Anyway, from all the discussion, since hyphens should not be used > according to what Greg said previously, I think we have only two options: > > nuttx > nuttx_apps > > and > > nuttx > nuttxapps > > Thiago > > > 2022/11/19 15:37:21, Tomek CEDRO: > > Short answer: NO :-) > > > > Long answer: > > 1. This is not how current source code is organized. Implies > > additional work and will break compatibility. > > 2. There will be a problem with git repository. This may not be > > accepted by Apache or will require additional non-standard work that > > will not align with how other projects are organized. Top level names > > should be used. Using nuttx.git is fine but having apps.git among > > other projects will be confusing (what apps are these?). Also might > > imply using git submodules. There was a discussion about that and this > > seems unnecessary complication. > > > > Best regadrs :-) > > Tomek > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 3:28 PM Thiago Costa de Paiva > wrote: > > > > > > I am not attached to the name itself, I was just trying to solve the > problem with special characters. Would the following work? > > > > > > nuttx/core > > > nuttx/apps > > > > > > > > > 2022/11/19 08:21:43, Gregory Nutt: > > > > On 11/19/2022 8:12 AM, Gregory Nutt wrote: > > > > > We need to verify, but I do not think that the Apache github > repository > > > > > supports directories > > > > > > > > > > Technically, NuttX is NOT a kernel in most build modes. A kernel > is a > > > > > very specific architectural implementation involving protected > > > > > resources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_(operating_system) > . > > > > > The Linux kernel is a kernel. NuttX can be a kernel in the > protected > > > > > and kernel build modes, but in general, NuttX is not a kernel so > any use > > > > > of kernel in the naming would be wrong in most cases. > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_(operating_system) > > > > > > > > > > More correctly Linux (and NuttX in protected and kernel modes) is a > > > > > monolithic kernel. > > > > > > > > > > Even worse usage is when NuttX is occasionally called a micro > kernel > > > > > which is most certainly is not. A microkernel is an architectural > > > > > alternative to a monolithic kernel: > > > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microkernel > > > > > > > > According to > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system#Types_of_operating_systems > , > > > > NuttX in the flat build mode could be called a "library operating > system" > > > > with regard to memory organization. It is also a real-time, > multi-tasking, > > > > embedded operating system using those definitions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Thiago Costa de Paiva > > > FSF member: 11963 > > > Linux User: 565327 > > > > > > > > > -- > > CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info > > > > -- > Thiago Costa de Paiva > FSF member: 11963 > Linux User: 565327 > >
Re: New names of repositories
>From these, the valid argument is that it would be non-standard (not a top >level name) related to Appache rules, which I think is indeed not acceptable. >It would not imply any source code organization change nor submodules: git clone /nuttx/core nuttx git clone /nuttx/apps apps Anyway, from all the discussion, since hyphens should not be used according to what Greg said previously, I think we have only two options: nuttx nuttx_apps and nuttx nuttxapps Thiago 2022/11/19 15:37:21, Tomek CEDRO: > Short answer: NO :-) > > Long answer: > 1. This is not how current source code is organized. Implies > additional work and will break compatibility. > 2. There will be a problem with git repository. This may not be > accepted by Apache or will require additional non-standard work that > will not align with how other projects are organized. Top level names > should be used. Using nuttx.git is fine but having apps.git among > other projects will be confusing (what apps are these?). Also might > imply using git submodules. There was a discussion about that and this > seems unnecessary complication. > > Best regadrs :-) > Tomek > > > On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 3:28 PM Thiago Costa de Paiva wrote: > > > > I am not attached to the name itself, I was just trying to solve the > > problem with special characters. Would the following work? > > > > nuttx/core > > nuttx/apps > > > > > > 2022/11/19 08:21:43, Gregory Nutt: > > > On 11/19/2022 8:12 AM, Gregory Nutt wrote: > > > > We need to verify, but I do not think that the Apache github repository > > > > supports directories > > > > > > > > Technically, NuttX is NOT a kernel in most build modes. A kernel is a > > > > very specific architectural implementation involving protected > > > > resources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_(operating_system) . > > > > The Linux kernel is a kernel. NuttX can be a kernel in the protected > > > > and kernel build modes, but in general, NuttX is not a kernel so any use > > > > of kernel in the naming would be wrong in most cases. > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_(operating_system) > > > > > > > > More correctly Linux (and NuttX in protected and kernel modes) is a > > > > monolithic kernel. > > > > > > > > Even worse usage is when NuttX is occasionally called a micro kernel > > > > which is most certainly is not. A microkernel is an architectural > > > > alternative to a monolithic kernel: > > > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microkernel > > > > > > According to > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system#Types_of_operating_systems > > > , > > > NuttX in the flat build mode could be called a "library operating system" > > > with regard to memory organization. It is also a real-time, > > > multi-tasking, > > > embedded operating system using those definitions. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Thiago Costa de Paiva > > FSF member: 11963 > > Linux User: 565327 > > > > > -- > CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info > -- Thiago Costa de Paiva FSF member: 11963 Linux User: 565327
Re: New names of repositories
> I am not attached to the name itself, I was just trying to solve the problem with special characters. Would the following work? > > nuttx/core > nuttx/apps Again, We need to verify, but I do not think that the Apache github repository supports directories like nuttx/ with repositories under them. And, God forbid, let's not talk about merging repositories! Such directories would have to reside at https://github.com/apache. There are 2.4K GIT repositories there. I don't think there are any directories of repositories there at all. You can see all 2.4K existing repository names here: The convention is - Repositories begin with the project name - *ALL* projects use a hyphen separator after the project name (there is not a single underscored name) - Specific names follow the hyphen-separated project name. core is not a bad name. Many projects use it. The project most like Nutts is MyNewt. They have mynewt-core.git. *Apache Mynewt* mynewt-artifact.git Golang library for parsing, analyzing, and manipulating Mynew... mynewt-blinky.git Apache Mynewt Blinky *mynewt-core.git * Apache Mynewt Core mynewt-documentation.git Apache MyNewt Documentation mynewt-imgmod.git Apache mynewt image modification tool mynewt-lorawan.git Apache mynewt mynewt-mcumgr.git Apache mynewt mynewt-mcumgr-cli.git MCU Manager CLI mynewt-newt.git Apache Mynewt Newt mynewt-newtmgr.git Apache Mynewt Newtmgr mynewt-nfc.git Apache mynewt No commits mynewt-nffs.git Apache NFFS filesystem mynewt-nimble.git Apache mynewt mynewt-pkg-bsp.git Apache Mynewt Pkg-bsp mynewt-pkg-pkg.git Apache Mynewt Pkg-pkg mynewt-pkg-sdk.git Apache Mynewt Pkg-sdk mynewt-site.git Apache Mynewt Site For them core is NOT the operating system. mynewt-core is the central, core logic of OS. The OS itself is spread across numerous repositories. Further dividing NuttX into modules inside of their own repositories could be a good thing. It would be an improvement to the enforcement of the internal modularity of the RTOS and would provide some barriers to code coupling. For example: nuttx-libs, nut tx-network, nuttx-drivers, nuttx-wireless, etc. I am not suggesting that this is something that we should be considering now.The added build complexity would be a bad thing and would certainly piss off a lot of users. It is easy to simplify by cramming everything together. but the price you pay down the road when the code base turns into spaghetti code is too high.
Re: New names of repositories
Short answer: NO :-) Long answer: 1. This is not how current source code is organized. Implies additional work and will break compatibility. 2. There will be a problem with git repository. This may not be accepted by Apache or will require additional non-standard work that will not align with how other projects are organized. Top level names should be used. Using nuttx.git is fine but having apps.git among other projects will be confusing (what apps are these?). Also might imply using git submodules. There was a discussion about that and this seems unnecessary complication. Best regadrs :-) Tomek On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 3:28 PM Thiago Costa de Paiva wrote: > > I am not attached to the name itself, I was just trying to solve the problem > with special characters. Would the following work? > > nuttx/core > nuttx/apps > > > 2022/11/19 08:21:43, Gregory Nutt: > > On 11/19/2022 8:12 AM, Gregory Nutt wrote: > > > We need to verify, but I do not think that the Apache github repository > > > supports directories > > > > > > Technically, NuttX is NOT a kernel in most build modes. A kernel is a > > > very specific architectural implementation involving protected > > > resources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_(operating_system) . > > > The Linux kernel is a kernel. NuttX can be a kernel in the protected > > > and kernel build modes, but in general, NuttX is not a kernel so any use > > > of kernel in the naming would be wrong in most cases. > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_(operating_system) > > > > > > More correctly Linux (and NuttX in protected and kernel modes) is a > > > monolithic kernel. > > > > > > Even worse usage is when NuttX is occasionally called a micro kernel > > > which is most certainly is not. A microkernel is an architectural > > > alternative to a monolithic kernel: > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microkernel > > > > According to > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system#Types_of_operating_systems , > > NuttX in the flat build mode could be called a "library operating system" > > with regard to memory organization. It is also a real-time, multi-tasking, > > embedded operating system using those definitions. > > > > > > -- > Thiago Costa de Paiva > FSF member: 11963 > Linux User: 565327 > -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
Re: New names of repositories
As we have this honor and pleasure to talk directly with the NuttX RTOS author.. maybe really we should listen to Gregory Nutt himself as the most experienced person in the room? There was a discussion in this area and the choice is strongly reasoned not just a matter of personal preference.. there are technical reasons why this naming convention is most compatible with environments where NuttX can be used.. On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 3:42 PM Gregory Nutt wrote: > +1 for nuttx_rtos and nuttx_apps Best regards :-) Tomek On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 3:12 PM Gregory Nutt wrote: > > We need to verify, but I do not think that the Apache github repository > supports directories > > Technically, NuttX is NOT a kernel in most build modes. A kernel is a > very specific architectural implementation involving protected > resources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_(operating_system) . > The Linux kernel is a kernel. NuttX can be a kernel in the protected > and kernel build modes, but in general, NuttX is not a kernel so any use > of kernel in the naming would be wrong in most cases. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_(operating_system) > > More correctly Linux (and NuttX in protected and kernel modes) is a > monolithic kernel. > > Even worse usage is when NuttX is occasionally called a micro kernel > which is most certainly is not. A microkernel is an architectural > alternative to a monolithic kernel: > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microkernel > > > On 11/19/2022 6:53 AM, Thiago Costa de Paiva wrote: > > How about? > > > > nuttx/kernel > > nuttx/apps > > > > > > 2022/11/19 13:26:53, raiden00pl: > >> +1 for nuttx and nuttx-apps > >> > >> sob., 19 lis 2022 o 12:17 Abdelatif Guettouche < > >> abdelatif.guettou...@gmail.com> napisał(a): > >> > >>> nuttx and nuttx-apps for me too. For the hyphen, as it was said before > >>> people can clone the repo under any name they want. We've been doing > >>> this ever since we joined the incubator and this is how we're > >>> instructing people too: > >>> https://nuttx.apache.org/docs/latest/quickstart/install.html#download-nuttx > >>> > >>> On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 6:42 AM fft wrote: > sorry for mytentative idea! > > > BR, > > > > ---Original--- > From: "Gregory Nutt" Date: Sat, Nov 19, 2022 08:26 AM > To: "dev" Subject: Re: New names of repositories > > > Isn't it possible to merge the nuttx and apps into only one > repository？e.g: > |-rtos > |-apps > > We discussed this option a couple of years ago and decided against > >>> it. I > was VERY strongly opposed to the idea then and I still am. > > - apps is NOT part of NuttX. It is an achitecturally unrelated, > >>> mish mash > or useful applications for NuttX, but it is not NuttX. > - I consists of mostly 3rd party code and should not contaminate the > >>> clean > modularity of the OS. > > If we want to consider this kind of code change than I would insist on a > vote and I most certainly would vote -1. I don't care about care > >>> about > hyphens or other cosmetics but I would not support any such corruption of > the modularity of the RTOS. > > This must never happen. > > -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
Re: New names of repositories
I am not attached to the name itself, I was just trying to solve the problem with special characters. Would the following work? nuttx/core nuttx/apps 2022/11/19 08:21:43, Gregory Nutt: > On 11/19/2022 8:12 AM, Gregory Nutt wrote: > > We need to verify, but I do not think that the Apache github repository > > supports directories > > > > Technically, NuttX is NOT a kernel in most build modes. A kernel is a > > very specific architectural implementation involving protected > > resources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_(operating_system) . > > The Linux kernel is a kernel. NuttX can be a kernel in the protected > > and kernel build modes, but in general, NuttX is not a kernel so any use > > of kernel in the naming would be wrong in most cases. > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_(operating_system) > > > > More correctly Linux (and NuttX in protected and kernel modes) is a > > monolithic kernel. > > > > Even worse usage is when NuttX is occasionally called a micro kernel > > which is most certainly is not. A microkernel is an architectural > > alternative to a monolithic kernel: > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microkernel > > According to > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system#Types_of_operating_systems , > NuttX in the flat build mode could be called a "library operating system" > with regard to memory organization. It is also a real-time, multi-tasking, > embedded operating system using those definitions. > > -- Thiago Costa de Paiva FSF member: 11963 Linux User: 565327
Re: New names of repositories
On 11/19/2022 8:12 AM, Gregory Nutt wrote: We need to verify, but I do not think that the Apache github repository supports directories Technically, NuttX is NOT a kernel in most build modes. A kernel is a very specific architectural implementation involving protected resources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_(operating_system) . The Linux kernel is a kernel. NuttX can be a kernel in the protected and kernel build modes, but in general, NuttX is not a kernel so any use of kernel in the naming would be wrong in most cases. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_(operating_system) More correctly Linux (and NuttX in protected and kernel modes) is a monolithic kernel. Even worse usage is when NuttX is occasionally called a micro kernel which is most certainly is not. A microkernel is an architectural alternative to a monolithic kernel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microkernel According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system#Types_of_operating_systems , NuttX in the flat build mode could be called a "library operating system" with regard to memory organization. It is also a real-time, multi-tasking, embedded operating system using those definitions.
Re: New names of repositories
We need to verify, but I do not think that the Apache github repository supports directories Technically, NuttX is NOT a kernel in most build modes. A kernel is a very specific architectural implementation involving protected resources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_(operating_system) . The Linux kernel is a kernel. NuttX can be a kernel in the protected and kernel build modes, but in general, NuttX is not a kernel so any use of kernel in the naming would be wrong in most cases. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_(operating_system) More correctly Linux (and NuttX in protected and kernel modes) is a monolithic kernel. Even worse usage is when NuttX is occasionally called a micro kernel which is most certainly is not. A microkernel is an architectural alternative to a monolithic kernel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microkernel On 11/19/2022 6:53 AM, Thiago Costa de Paiva wrote: How about? nuttx/kernel nuttx/apps 2022/11/19 13:26:53, raiden00pl: +1 for nuttx and nuttx-apps sob., 19 lis 2022 o 12:17 Abdelatif Guettouche < abdelatif.guettou...@gmail.com> napisał(a): nuttx and nuttx-apps for me too. For the hyphen, as it was said before people can clone the repo under any name they want. We've been doing this ever since we joined the incubator and this is how we're instructing people too: https://nuttx.apache.org/docs/latest/quickstart/install.html#download-nuttx On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 6:42 AM fft wrote: sorry for mytentative idea! BR, ---Original--- From: "Gregory Nutt" it. I was VERY strongly opposed to the idea then and I still am. - apps is NOT part of NuttX. It is an achitecturally unrelated, mish mash or useful applications for NuttX, but it is not NuttX. - I consists of mostly 3rd party code and should not contaminate the clean modularity of the OS. If we want to consider this kind of code change than I would insist on a vote and I most certainly would vote -1. I don't care about care about hyphens or other cosmetics but I would not support any such corruption of the modularity of the RTOS. This must never happen.
Re: New names of repositories
+1 for nuttx and nuttx-apps. On Sat, Nov 19, 2022, 14:53 Thiago Costa de Paiva wrote: > How about? > > nuttx/kernel > nuttx/apps > > > 2022/11/19 13:26:53, raiden00pl: > > +1 for nuttx and nuttx-apps > > > > sob., 19 lis 2022 o 12:17 Abdelatif Guettouche < > > abdelatif.guettou...@gmail.com> napisał(a): > > > > > nuttx and nuttx-apps for me too. For the hyphen, as it was said before > > > people can clone the repo under any name they want. We've been doing > > > this ever since we joined the incubator and this is how we're > > > instructing people too: > > > > https://nuttx.apache.org/docs/latest/quickstart/install.html#download-nuttx > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 6:42 AM fft wrote: > > > > > > > > sorry for mytentative idea! > > > > > > > > > > > > BR, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---Original--- > > > > From: "Gregory Nutt" > > > Date: Sat, Nov 19, 2022 08:26 AM > > > > To: "dev" > > > Subject: Re: New names of repositories > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't it possible to merge the nuttx and apps into only one > > > > repository？e.g: > > > > > > > |-rtos > > > > |-apps > > > > > > > > We discussed this option a couple of years ago and decided against > > > it. I > > > > was VERY strongly opposed to the idea then and I still am. > > > > > > > > - apps is NOT part of NuttX. It is an achitecturally unrelated, > > > mish mash > > > > or useful applications for NuttX, but it is not NuttX. > > > > - I consists of mostly 3rd party code and should not contaminate the > > > clean > > > > modularity of the OS. > > > > > > > > If we want to consider this kind of code change than I would insist > on a > > > > vote and I most certainly would vote -1. I don't care about > care > > > about > > > > hyphens or other cosmetics but I would not support any such > corruption of > > > > the modularity of the RTOS. > > > > > > > > This must never happen. > > > > > -- > Thiago Costa de Paiva > FSF member: 11963 > Linux User: 565327 > >
Re: New names of repositories
How about? nuttx/kernel nuttx/apps 2022/11/19 13:26:53, raiden00pl: > +1 for nuttx and nuttx-apps > > sob., 19 lis 2022 o 12:17 Abdelatif Guettouche < > abdelatif.guettou...@gmail.com> napisał(a): > > > nuttx and nuttx-apps for me too. For the hyphen, as it was said before > > people can clone the repo under any name they want. We've been doing > > this ever since we joined the incubator and this is how we're > > instructing people too: > > https://nuttx.apache.org/docs/latest/quickstart/install.html#download-nuttx > > > > On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 6:42 AM fft wrote: > > > > > > sorry for mytentative idea! > > > > > > > > > BR, > > > > > > > > > > > > ---Original--- > > > From: "Gregory Nutt" > > Date: Sat, Nov 19, 2022 08:26 AM > > > To: "dev" > > Subject: Re: New names of repositories > > > > > > > > > Isn't it possible to merge the nuttx and apps into only one > > > repository？e.g: > > > > > |-rtos > > > |-apps > > > > > > We discussed this option a couple of years ago and decided against > > it. I > > > was VERY strongly opposed to the idea then and I still am. > > > > > > - apps is NOT part of NuttX. It is an achitecturally unrelated, > > mish mash > > > or useful applications for NuttX, but it is not NuttX. > > > - I consists of mostly 3rd party code and should not contaminate the > > clean > > > modularity of the OS. > > > > > > If we want to consider this kind of code change than I would insist on a > > > vote and I most certainly would vote -1. I don't care about care > > about > > > hyphens or other cosmetics but I would not support any such corruption of > > > the modularity of the RTOS. > > > > > > This must never happen. > > -- Thiago Costa de Paiva FSF member: 11963 Linux User: 565327
Re: New names of repositories
+1 for nuttx and nuttx-apps sob., 19 lis 2022 o 12:17 Abdelatif Guettouche < abdelatif.guettou...@gmail.com> napisał(a): > nuttx and nuttx-apps for me too. For the hyphen, as it was said before > people can clone the repo under any name they want. We've been doing > this ever since we joined the incubator and this is how we're > instructing people too: > https://nuttx.apache.org/docs/latest/quickstart/install.html#download-nuttx > > On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 6:42 AM fft wrote: > > > > sorry for mytentative idea! > > > > > > BR, > > > > > > > > ---Original--- > > From: "Gregory Nutt" > Date: Sat, Nov 19, 2022 08:26 AM > > To: "dev" > Subject: Re: New names of repositories > > > > > > Isn't it possible to merge the nuttx and apps into only one > > repository？e.g: > > > |-rtos > > |-apps > > > > We discussed this option a couple of years ago and decided against > it. I > > was VERY strongly opposed to the idea then and I still am. > > > > - apps is NOT part of NuttX. It is an achitecturally unrelated, > mish mash > > or useful applications for NuttX, but it is not NuttX. > > - I consists of mostly 3rd party code and should not contaminate the > clean > > modularity of the OS. > > > > If we want to consider this kind of code change than I would insist on a > > vote and I most certainly would vote -1. I don't care about care > about > > hyphens or other cosmetics but I would not support any such corruption of > > the modularity of the RTOS. > > > > This must never happen. >
Re: New names of repositories
nuttx and nuttx-apps for me too. For the hyphen, as it was said before people can clone the repo under any name they want. We've been doing this ever since we joined the incubator and this is how we're instructing people too: https://nuttx.apache.org/docs/latest/quickstart/install.html#download-nuttx On Sat, Nov 19, 2022 at 6:42 AM fft wrote: > > sorry for mytentative idea! > > > BR, > > > > ---Original--- > From: "Gregory Nutt" Date: Sat, Nov 19, 2022 08:26 AM > To: "dev" Subject: Re: New names of repositories > > > Isn't it possible to merge the nuttx and apps into only one > repository？e.g: >|-rtos > |-apps > > We discussed this option a couple of years ago and decided against it. I > was VERY strongly opposed to the idea then and I still am. > > - apps is NOT part of NuttX. It is an achitecturally unrelated, mish > mash > or useful applications for NuttX, but it is not NuttX. > - I consists of mostly 3rd party code and should not contaminate the clean > modularity of the OS. > > If we want to consider this kind of code change than I would insist on a > vote and I most certainly would vote -1. I don't care about care about > hyphens or other cosmetics but I would not support any such corruption of > the modularity of the RTOS. > > This must never happen.
