Re: Apache OpenOffice in Fedora 19?

[Andrea Pescetti]

Rob Weir wrote:

But I would have trademark concerns if a statement like this installed
anything but OpenOffice:
sudo yum install openoffice.org


It doesn't. But indeed the openoffice.org alias has been discussed and I 
hope we can get it reassigned or dropped without invoking trademarks. 
Anyway, it is not one of the technically problematic aliases but just a 
convenience alias, so it can be addressed after we have packages ready.


Regards,
  Andrea.

Re: Apache OpenOffice in Fedora 19?

[Jürgen Schmidt]

On 2/7/13 8:59 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> Rob Weir wrote:
>> But I would have trademark concerns if a statement like this installed
>> anything but OpenOffice:
>> sudo yum install openoffice.org
> 
> It doesn't. But indeed the openoffice.org alias has been discussed and I
> hope we can get it reassigned or dropped without invoking trademarks.
> Anyway, it is not one of the technically problematic aliases but just a
> convenience alias, so it can be addressed after we have packages ready.
> 

We should argue that the aliases came from OpenOffice and that they were
hijacked if you want by LibreOffice. They even used the package name in
the past to install LibreOffice and not OpenOffice. We tolerated it
because we had no updated version in place with the latest security
fixes. But that's it and the game changed, we have a current version and
will provide future versions.

And again changing soffice means much more work and I really don't see
why we should change it because they belong to OpenOffice.

Some magic UNO bootstrap code used by UNO client applications used the
soffice alias for example. Changing it would break potential client
applications.

The other aliases like oowriter are obvious where they come from, why
should we change them?

It is important to come back in distros but we should not easy give up
what belongs to OpenOffice.

Juergen

Re: Apache OpenOffice in Fedora 19?

[Damjan Jovanovic]

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 12:19 AM, Rob Weir  wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:
>> Am 02/06/2013 09:13 PM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti:
>>
>>> On 31/01/2013 Andrea Pescetti wrote:

 It got more coverage than needed, probably. It is just a proposal at
 this stage, like dozens of other proposals.
>>>
>>>
>>> It is starting to become something a little bit more official now.
>>> Minutes ago, the "FESCo meeting" (Fedora Engineering Steering Committee)
>>> approved the feature for Fedora 19 unanimously, 9-0.
>>
>>
>> Great news.
>>
>>
>>> They will likely publish some minutes, but I copy-paste from the chat.
>>> ---
>>> Feature is accepted under the condition that the conflicts must be
>>> worked out. OpenOffice and LibreOffice packagers get to work them out.
>>> There is no FESCo mandate that LibreOffice must change to accommodate
>>> OpenOffice at this time. Alternatives is not the way to resolve the
>>> conflicts but environment-modules may be looked at as a similar means to
>>> achieve that.
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Explanations:
>>>
>>> - Conflicts are over the "soffice" and "unopkg" aliases, and possibly
>>> others, which would be needed by both OpenOffice and LibreOffice. Here I
>>> hope that the LibreOffice packagers can agree on some solutions (note:
>>> it's really about the packages, since the upstream LibreOffice does not
>>> conflict). Stephan Bergmann explained that there is still some usage of
>>> the hard-coded "soffice" by external applications and in the SDK. So
>>> this really needs to be clarified to see whether OpenOffice will break
>>> if it doesn't own the "soffice" alias.
>>>
>>> - For historical reasons, the "ooffice", "oowriter"... aliases are
>>> assigned to LibreOffice. Although we discussed it on the mailing lists,
>>> this won't change. So, unless we have the funny idea of squatting
>>> "lowriter", "localc"..., we are left with "aoowriter", "aoocalc" and so
>>> on.
>>
>>
>> I've the idea that both parties are changing to an own naming syntax:
>>
>> soffice -> aooffice *and* soffice -> loffice and so on with other names.
>>
>> Then both have work to do and nobody is in advantage to profit from old
>> stuff.
>>
>
> But I would have trademark concerns if a statement like this installed
> anything but OpenOffice:
>
> sudo yum install openoffice.org
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>

On at least Ubuntu 12.04 (a long term support version), doing this:
sudo apt-get install openoffice.org
will install LibreOffice.

Package description:
This is a transitional package, replacing the OpenOffice.org packaging
with the LibreOffice packaging.

It can be safely removed after an upgrade.



I've been wondering whether this is legal?

Regards
Damjan

RE: $21 million per day

[PETER ROMANO]

CNET is doing a very good job of getting the word out...

I received this link in an email I received today from CNET...
http://download.cnet.com/8301-2007_4-57566982-12/free-office-2013-alternatives/?tag=nl.e415&s_cid=e415

Although they did not mention that AOO directly, they did mention LibreOffice
and also put a link to AOO since LibreOffice originated from AOO.


Pete...
 
Peter J Romano
prom...@msn.com

When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced.
Live your life so that when you die, the world cries and you rejoice. - 
Cherokee Proverb

> Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 21:40:36 -0600
> From: libby1...@att.net
> To: market...@openoffice.apache.org
> CC: prom...@msn.com; dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: $21 million per day
> 
> Hello.
> 
> Mastercard sells a mixture of services from financial services, banking, 
> as well as consumer data to other companies. They also have revenue 
> streams off of POS (point of sale) transactions and interest payments 
> from consumers and businesses.
> 
> Creating a value statement for those who are already aware of AOO to 
> increase usage and word of mouth will be difficult. This goes as well 
> for those that we all might have heard of that do not even know there 
> are alternatives to Microsoft Office at all.
> 
> 
> --
> Libby
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 2/6/2013 21:30, PETER ROMANO wrote:
> > What does Mastercard sell ?
> >
> > Pete...
> >   
> > Peter J Romano
> > prom...@msn.com
> >
> >
> >> Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 08:43:08 -0500
> >> Subject: $21 million per day
> >> From: robw...@apache.org
> >> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; market...@openoffice.apache.org
> >>
> >> Yes, yes, we're a non-profit organization.  We don't charge for Apache
> >> OpenOffice.  We don't pay developers.But we still do produce
> >> something of value, and that value can be estimated.
> >>
> >> People need office productivity software.  The main alternative to
> >> OpenOffice is Microsoft Office, perhaps the "Home and Student"
> >> edition.  The latest version (2013) sells for $139.99 on Amazon.  This
> >> is for the downloadable version.
> >>
> >> We have averaged 153K downloads per day of Apace OpenOffice over the
> >> last week.  That is an average value to the public of $21.5 million
> >> per day.  Or $7.833 billion (7.833 thousand million) per year.
> >>
> >> To put that in perspective, here are comparable annual sales figures
> >> for some familiar companies:
> >>
> >> -- Campbell Soup Company:  $7.882 billion
> >> -- Royal Caribbean Cruises:   $7.657 billion
> >> -- Mastercard, Inc:$7.391 billion
> >> -- OfficeMax:$7.094 billion
> >>
> >>
> >> So we're providing tremendous value to the public.  We should be proud
> >> of what we've accomplished over the past decade.
> >>
> >> Note:  We could certainly debate the exact value provided to users.
> >> Determining what a user would do if they did not get AOO for free is
> >> tricky.  But the logic above is similar to how the BSA estimates
> >> losses to Microsoft from software piracy.  They assume that the person
> >> who pirates Office would buy it if they did not pirate it.  So it
> >> seems fair to use that same logic to estimate the value provided to
> >> users by a legal free alternative like Apache OpenOffice.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> -Rob
> > 
> 

  

Re: $21 million per day

[Libby]

Hello.

Mastercard sells a mixture of services from financial services, banking, 
as well as consumer data to other companies. They also have revenue 
streams off of POS (point of sale) transactions and interest payments 
from consumers and businesses.


Creating a value statement for those who are already aware of AOO to 
increase usage and word of mouth will be difficult. This goes as well 
for those that we all might have heard of that do not even know there 
are alternatives to Microsoft Office at all.



--
Libby




On 2/6/2013 21:30, PETER ROMANO wrote:

What does Mastercard sell ?

Pete...
  
Peter J Romano

prom...@msn.com



Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 08:43:08 -0500
Subject: $21 million per day
From: robw...@apache.org
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; market...@openoffice.apache.org

Yes, yes, we're a non-profit organization.  We don't charge for Apache
OpenOffice.  We don't pay developers.But we still do produce
something of value, and that value can be estimated.

People need office productivity software.  The main alternative to
OpenOffice is Microsoft Office, perhaps the "Home and Student"
edition.  The latest version (2013) sells for $139.99 on Amazon.  This
is for the downloadable version.

We have averaged 153K downloads per day of Apace OpenOffice over the
last week.  That is an average value to the public of $21.5 million
per day.  Or $7.833 billion (7.833 thousand million) per year.

To put that in perspective, here are comparable annual sales figures
for some familiar companies:

-- Campbell Soup Company:  $7.882 billion
-- Royal Caribbean Cruises:   $7.657 billion
-- Mastercard, Inc:$7.391 billion
-- OfficeMax:$7.094 billion


So we're providing tremendous value to the public.  We should be proud
of what we've accomplished over the past decade.

Note:  We could certainly debate the exact value provided to users.
Determining what a user would do if they did not get AOO for free is
tricky.  But the logic above is similar to how the BSA estimates
losses to Microsoft from software piracy.  They assume that the person
who pirates Office would buy it if they did not pirate it.  So it
seems fair to use that same logic to estimate the value provided to
users by a legal free alternative like Apache OpenOffice.

Regards,

-Rob

Re: $21 million per day

[Roberto Galoppini]

On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Sally Khudairi  wrote:
> Hello Dave --great to hear from you, and with a wonderful subject :-)
>
> I'm happy to help, and can work with both Rob and Don (and whomever else 
> would like to participate) on getting something formal out the door.

Sally, happy to spread the news via SourceForge and our channel media
if you wish so.

Roberto

> Is there a timeframe in mind? Next week, I presume?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Sally
>
>
>
>
>>
>> From: Dave Fisher 
>>To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; ASF Marketing & Publicity 
>>Cc: market...@openoffice.apache.org
>>Sent: Wednesday, 6 February 2013, 15:54
>>Subject: Re: $21 million per day
>>
>>Hi Sally,
>>
>>Please see this message thread: 
>>http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-dev/201302.mbox/%3CCAP-ksoiJx5QqRvAQpHTJJ2_VasPCji9gTi4R3PH8bg_ntwkJ9A%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>>
>>Rob is working on a blog post, but I think that this is something worthy of 
>>an ASF press release as it shows substantial value provided to the public.
>>
>>Thanks and Regards,
>>Dave
>>
>>On Feb 6, 2013, at 12:42 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 8:43 AM, Rob Weir  wrote:
 Yes, yes, we're a non-profit organization.  We don't charge for Apache
 OpenOffice.  We don't pay developers.But we still do produce
 something of value, and that value can be estimated.

 People need office productivity software.  The main alternative to
 OpenOffice is Microsoft Office, perhaps the "Home and Student"
 edition.  The latest version (2013) sells for $139.99 on Amazon.  This
 is for the downloadable version.

>>>
>>> So I'm thinking more on this, and there is an assumption here that the
>>> price I pay for Office in the US is the same as anyone else pays
>>> around the world.  But this is unlikely to be true.  This is a classic
>>> example of where the fixed costs are in the development and are high,
>>> and the variable costs are in the media and distribution and are very
>>> low.  So a global vendor's optimal strategy is to adjust the pricing
>>> country-by-country or region-by-region, to maximize their profits.
>>> They can drop the prince in some countries and raise it in others
>>> based on ability to pay.
>>>
>>> I'd love to have some help exploring the magnitude of these
>>> differences, to see if they are significant.  Let's use the price
>>> Microsoft quotes for "Home and Student 2013".  We want the 1PC
>>> perpetual license, not the per-year subscription price.
>>>
>>> Start from here:  http://office.microsoft.com.  I had to then go to
>>> "Products", "For Home" and "Learn more".
>>>
>>> When I check the US price I get $139.99
>>>
>>> When I check the German site (http://office.microsoft.com/de-de) I am
>>> quoted 139,00 €.  That is $188.04 today.
>>>
>>> When I check the Australian website I am quoted $169.00 which is $174.42 
>>> USD.
>>>
>>> The Russian website quotes 3499.00 rubles, which is $116.30.
>>>
>>> So I'm seeing some higher and some lower.  Does anyone see pricing
>>> that is outside of the range USD 116.30 - 188.04 ?
>>>
>>> This complicates the analysis, but I don't think it changes the story much.
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
 We have averaged 153K downloads per day of Apace OpenOffice over the
 last week.  That is an average value to the public of $21.5 million
 per day.  Or $7.833 billion (7.833 thousand million) per year.

 To put that in perspective, here are comparable annual sales figures
 for some familiar companies:

 -- Campbell Soup Company:  $7.882 billion
 -- Royal Caribbean Cruises:   $7.657 billion
 -- Mastercard, Inc:$7.391 billion
 -- OfficeMax:$7.094 billion


 So we're providing tremendous value to the public.  We should be proud
 of what we've accomplished over the past decade.

 Note:  We could certainly debate the exact value provided to users.
 Determining what a user would do if they did not get AOO for free is
 tricky.  But the logic above is similar to how the BSA estimates
 losses to Microsoft from software piracy.  They assume that the person
 who pirates Office would buy it if they did not pirate it.  So it
 seems fair to use that same logic to estimate the value provided to
 users by a legal free alternative like Apache OpenOffice.

 Regards,

 -Rob
>>
>>
>>
>>

-- 

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Re: $21 million per day

[Sally Khudairi]

Beautiful. Thanks so much, Roberto. This is hugely appreciated!

Cheers & chat soon,
Sally
 



>
> From: Roberto Galoppini 
>To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; Sally Khudairi  
>Cc: Dave Fisher ; ASF Marketing & Publicity 
>; "market...@openoffice.apache.org" 
> 
>Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2013, 5:00
>Subject: Re: $21 million per day
> 
>On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Sally Khudairi  wrote:
>> Hello Dave --great to hear from you, and with a wonderful subject :-)
>>
>> I'm happy to help, and can work with both Rob and Don (and whomever else 
>> would like to participate) on getting something formal out the door.
>
>Sally, happy to spread the news via SourceForge and our channel media
>if you wish so.
>
>Roberto
>
>> Is there a timeframe in mind? Next week, I presume?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Sally
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> From: Dave Fisher 
>>>To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; ASF Marketing & Publicity 
>>>Cc: market...@openoffice.apache.org
>>>Sent: Wednesday, 6 February 2013, 15:54
>>>Subject: Re: $21 million per day
>>>
>>>Hi Sally,
>>>
>>>Please see this message thread: 
>>>http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-dev/201302.mbox/%3CCAP-ksoiJx5QqRvAQpHTJJ2_VasPCji9gTi4R3PH8bg_ntwkJ9A%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>>>
>>>Rob is working on a blog post, but I think that this is something worthy of 
>>>an ASF press release as it shows substantial value provided to the public.
>>>
>>>Thanks and Regards,
>>>Dave
>>>
>>>On Feb 6, 2013, at 12:42 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>
 On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 8:43 AM, Rob Weir  wrote:
> Yes, yes, we're a non-profit organization.  We don't charge for Apache
> OpenOffice.  We don't pay developers.    But we still do produce
> something of value, and that value can be estimated.
>
> People need office productivity software.  The main alternative to
> OpenOffice is Microsoft Office, perhaps the "Home and Student"
> edition.  The latest version (2013) sells for $139.99 on Amazon.  This
> is for the downloadable version.
>

 So I'm thinking more on this, and there is an assumption here that the
 price I pay for Office in the US is the same as anyone else pays
 around the world.  But this is unlikely to be true.  This is a classic
 example of where the fixed costs are in the development and are high,
 and the variable costs are in the media and distribution and are very
 low.  So a global vendor's optimal strategy is to adjust the pricing
 country-by-country or region-by-region, to maximize their profits.
 They can drop the prince in some countries and raise it in others
 based on ability to pay.

 I'd love to have some help exploring the magnitude of these
 differences, to see if they are significant.  Let's use the price
 Microsoft quotes for "Home and Student 2013".  We want the 1PC
 perpetual license, not the per-year subscription price.

 Start from here:  http://office.microsoft.com.  I had to then go to
 "Products", "For Home" and "Learn more".

 When I check the US price I get $139.99

 When I check the German site (http://office.microsoft.com/de-de) I am
 quoted 139,00 €.  That is $188.04 today.

 When I check the Australian website I am quoted $169.00 which is $174.42 
 USD.

 The Russian website quotes 3499.00 rubles, which is $116.30.

 So I'm seeing some higher and some lower.  Does anyone see pricing
 that is outside of the range USD 116.30 - 188.04 ?

 This complicates the analysis, but I don't think it changes the story much.

 -Rob




> We have averaged 153K downloads per day of Apace OpenOffice over the
> last week.  That is an average value to the public of $21.5 million
> per day.  Or $7.833 billion (7.833 thousand million) per year.
>
> To put that in perspective, here are comparable annual sales figures
> for some familiar companies:
>
> -- Campbell Soup Company:  $7.882 billion
> -- Royal Caribbean Cruises:   $7.657 billion
> -- Mastercard, Inc:                $7.391 billion
> -- OfficeMax:                        $7.094 billion
>
>
> So we're providing tremendous value to the public.  We should be proud
> of what we've accomplished over the past decade.
>
> Note:  We could certainly debate the exact value provided to users.
> Determining what a user would do if they did not get AOO for free is
> tricky.  But the logic above is similar to how the BSA estimates
> losses to Microsoft from software piracy.  They assume that the person
> who pirates Office would buy it if they did not pirate it.  So it
> seems fair to use that same logic to estimate the value provided to
> users by a legal free alternative like Apache OpenOffice.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>-- 
>
>This e- mail message is inten

RE: $21 million per day

[Hans Zybura]

> -Original Message-
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 9:43 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; market...@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: $21 million per day
> 
> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 8:43 AM, Rob Weir  wrote:
> > Yes, yes, we're a non-profit organization.  We don't charge for Apache
> > OpenOffice.  We don't pay developers.But we still do produce
> > something of value, and that value can be estimated.
> >
> > People need office productivity software.  The main alternative to
> > OpenOffice is Microsoft Office, perhaps the "Home and Student"
> > edition.  The latest version (2013) sells for $139.99 on Amazon.  This
> > is for the downloadable version.
> >
> 
> So I'm thinking more on this, and there is an assumption here that the price I
> pay for Office in the US is the same as anyone else pays around the world.
> But this is unlikely to be true.  This is a classic example of where the fixed
> costs are in the development and are high, and the variable costs are in the
> media and distribution and are very low.  So a global vendor's optimal
> strategy is to adjust the pricing country-by-country or region-by-region, to
> maximize their profits.
> They can drop the prince in some countries and raise it in others based on
> ability to pay.
> 
> I'd love to have some help exploring the magnitude of these differences, to
> see if they are significant.  Let's use the price Microsoft quotes for "Home
> and Student 2013".  We want the 1PC perpetual license, not the per-year
> subscription price.
> 
> Start from here:  http://office.microsoft.com.  I had to then go to 
> "Products",
> "For Home" and "Learn more".
> 
> When I check the US price I get $139.99
> 
> When I check the German site (http://office.microsoft.com/de-de) I am
> quoted 139,00 €.  That is $188.04 today.
> 
> When I check the Australian website I am quoted $169.00 which is $174.42
> USD.
> 
> The Russian website quotes 3499.00 rubles, which is $116.30.
> 
> So I'm seeing some higher and some lower.  Does anyone see pricing that is
> outside of the range USD 116.30 - 188.04 ?
> 
> This complicates the analysis, but I don't think it changes the story much.
> 
> -Rob

You can buy Microsoft products considerably below their "official" prices 
quoted on Microsoft's web sites.

On http://geizhals.de/eu/894430
you can compare real market prices for different European languages in 
different countries and from different vendors.

Microsoft Office Home and Student (1 computer) sample best prices (VAT 
included, shipment excluded) as of Feb. 7th

Germany: 105,11 Euro 
Poland: 110,11 Euro = PLN 460
Italy: 108,04 Euro

Differences are mostly due to differences in VAT percentage, e.g. Germany 19%, 
Poland 23%.

Sample Amazon prices
Amazon.de:  112,69 Euro
Amazon.at: 112,69 Euro
Amazon.it: 114,24 Euro
Amazon.co.uk: £96.50 = 111,50 EUR
surprisingly expensive
Amazon.es: 127,35 Euro
Amazon.fr: 129,90 Euro

In general, the real market price in European countries seems to be mostly in 
the range of 110,00 Euro to 115,00 Euro

Hans

> 
> 
> 
> 
> > We have averaged 153K downloads per day of Apace OpenOffice over the
> > last week.  That is an average value to the public of $21.5 million
> > per day.  Or $7.833 billion (7.833 thousand million) per year.
> >
> > To put that in perspective, here are comparable annual sales figures
> > for some familiar companies:
> >
> > -- Campbell Soup Company:  $7.882 billion
> > -- Royal Caribbean Cruises:   $7.657 billion
> > -- Mastercard, Inc:$7.391 billion
> > -- OfficeMax:$7.094 billion
> >
> >
> > So we're providing tremendous value to the public.  We should be proud
> > of what we've accomplished over the past decade.
> >
> > Note:  We could certainly debate the exact value provided to users.
> > Determining what a user would do if they did not get AOO for free is
> > tricky.  But the logic above is similar to how the BSA estimates
> > losses to Microsoft from software piracy.  They assume that the person
> > who pirates Office would buy it if they did not pirate it.  So it
> > seems fair to use that same logic to estimate the value provided to
> > users by a legal free alternative like Apache OpenOffice.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > -Rob

Re: Apache OpenOffice in Fedora 19?

[Andrea Pescetti]

Jürgen Schmidt wrote:

We should argue that the aliases came from OpenOffice and that they were
hijacked if you want by LibreOffice.


Fedora won't reassign aliases unless a default program is replaced 
(i.e., unless OpenOffice becomes a default program, which it won't in 
F19). Anyway the aliases are a minor problem, since people are expected 
to use menus.



And again changing soffice means much more work and I really don't see
why we should change it because they belong to OpenOffice.


No, there are two classes of aliases: simple launchers like "oowriter", 
that can be renamed with no major problems, and reserved names like 
"soffice" and "unopkg", that will be fixed at a packaging level, i.e., 
the user will be able to choose which one is the "soffice" application 
to use. The mechanism is like this 
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:Alternatives even though Fedora 
suggests not to use it but environment modules, which I still must 
investigate.



Some magic UNO bootstrap code used by UNO client applications used the
soffice alias for example. Changing it would break potential client
applications.


Exactly. This is why we need special handling for it.


The other aliases like oowriter are obvious where they come from, why
should we change them?
It is important to come back in distros but we should not easy give up
what belongs to OpenOffice.


It's clear that oowriter was just squatted, or reassigned for continuity 
with the idea that no program would claim it back again. However, if we 
want to claim it, we won't be able to be in the Fedora repositories, see 
above. And the major benefit to users comes from having OpenOffice 
available in repositories, not from having the nicest command-line aliases.


Regards,
  Andrea.

Re: $21 million per day

[Rob Weir]

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 6:34 AM, Hans Zybura  wrote:
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org]
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 9:43 PM
>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; market...@openoffice.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: $21 million per day
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 8:43 AM, Rob Weir  wrote:
>> > Yes, yes, we're a non-profit organization.  We don't charge for Apache
>> > OpenOffice.  We don't pay developers.But we still do produce
>> > something of value, and that value can be estimated.
>> >
>> > People need office productivity software.  The main alternative to
>> > OpenOffice is Microsoft Office, perhaps the "Home and Student"
>> > edition.  The latest version (2013) sells for $139.99 on Amazon.  This
>> > is for the downloadable version.
>> >
>>
>> So I'm thinking more on this, and there is an assumption here that the price 
>> I
>> pay for Office in the US is the same as anyone else pays around the world.
>> But this is unlikely to be true.  This is a classic example of where the 
>> fixed
>> costs are in the development and are high, and the variable costs are in the
>> media and distribution and are very low.  So a global vendor's optimal
>> strategy is to adjust the pricing country-by-country or region-by-region, to
>> maximize their profits.
>> They can drop the prince in some countries and raise it in others based on
>> ability to pay.
>>
>> I'd love to have some help exploring the magnitude of these differences, to
>> see if they are significant.  Let's use the price Microsoft quotes for "Home
>> and Student 2013".  We want the 1PC perpetual license, not the per-year
>> subscription price.
>>
>> Start from here:  http://office.microsoft.com.  I had to then go to 
>> "Products",
>> "For Home" and "Learn more".
>>
>> When I check the US price I get $139.99
>>
>> When I check the German site (http://office.microsoft.com/de-de) I am
>> quoted 139,00 €.  That is $188.04 today.
>>
>> When I check the Australian website I am quoted $169.00 which is $174.42
>> USD.
>>
>> The Russian website quotes 3499.00 rubles, which is $116.30.
>>
>> So I'm seeing some higher and some lower.  Does anyone see pricing that is
>> outside of the range USD 116.30 - 188.04 ?
>>
>> This complicates the analysis, but I don't think it changes the story much.
>>
>> -Rob
>
> You can buy Microsoft products considerably below their "official" prices 
> quoted on Microsoft's web sites.
>
> On http://geizhals.de/eu/894430
> you can compare real market prices for different European languages in 
> different countries and from different vendors.
>
> Microsoft Office Home and Student (1 computer) sample best prices (VAT 
> included, shipment excluded) as of Feb. 7th
>
> Germany: 105,11 Euro
> Poland: 110,11 Euro = PLN 460
> Italy: 108,04 Euro
>
> Differences are mostly due to differences in VAT percentage, e.g. Germany 
> 19%, Poland 23%.
>

Ah, good observation.  That would explain the difference in the US
price.  In the US most internet sales are free of sales tax.  And even
where there is tax it is not listed in the "sticker price", but is
added after.

-Rob

> Sample Amazon prices
> Amazon.de:  112,69 Euro
> Amazon.at: 112,69 Euro
> Amazon.it: 114,24 Euro
> Amazon.co.uk: £96.50 = 111,50 EUR
> surprisingly expensive
> Amazon.es: 127,35 Euro
> Amazon.fr: 129,90 Euro
>
> In general, the real market price in European countries seems to be mostly in 
> the range of 110,00 Euro to 115,00 Euro
>
> Hans
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > We have averaged 153K downloads per day of Apace OpenOffice over the
>> > last week.  That is an average value to the public of $21.5 million
>> > per day.  Or $7.833 billion (7.833 thousand million) per year.
>> >
>> > To put that in perspective, here are comparable annual sales figures
>> > for some familiar companies:
>> >
>> > -- Campbell Soup Company:  $7.882 billion
>> > -- Royal Caribbean Cruises:   $7.657 billion
>> > -- Mastercard, Inc:$7.391 billion
>> > -- OfficeMax:$7.094 billion
>> >
>> >
>> > So we're providing tremendous value to the public.  We should be proud
>> > of what we've accomplished over the past decade.
>> >
>> > Note:  We could certainly debate the exact value provided to users.
>> > Determining what a user would do if they did not get AOO for free is
>> > tricky.  But the logic above is similar to how the BSA estimates
>> > losses to Microsoft from software piracy.  They assume that the person
>> > who pirates Office would buy it if they did not pirate it.  So it
>> > seems fair to use that same logic to estimate the value provided to
>> > users by a legal free alternative like Apache OpenOffice.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > -Rob
>

Re: Apache OpenOffice in Fedora 19?

[Rob Weir]

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 3:13 AM, Jürgen Schmidt  wrote:
> On 2/7/13 8:59 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> Rob Weir wrote:
>>> But I would have trademark concerns if a statement like this installed
>>> anything but OpenOffice:
>>> sudo yum install openoffice.org
>>
>> It doesn't. But indeed the openoffice.org alias has been discussed and I
>> hope we can get it reassigned or dropped without invoking trademarks.
>> Anyway, it is not one of the technically problematic aliases but just a
>> convenience alias, so it can be addressed after we have packages ready.
>>
>
> We should argue that the aliases came from OpenOffice and that they were
> hijacked if you want by LibreOffice. They even used the package name in
> the past to install LibreOffice and not OpenOffice. We tolerated it
> because we had no updated version in place with the latest security
> fixes. But that's it and the game changed, we have a current version and
> will provide future versions.
>

It comes down to user confusion.  We've already seen users confused by
this, where they think they are installing OpenOffice and instead get
something else.  This is classic trademark infringement.  You can't
offer bottles of Coca-Cola for to consumers and then fill the bottles
with Pepsi.

> And again changing soffice means much more work and I really don't see
> why we should change it because they belong to OpenOffice.
>
> Some magic UNO bootstrap code used by UNO client applications used the
> soffice alias for example. Changing it would break potential client
> applications.
>
> The other aliases like oowriter are obvious where they come from, why
> should we change them?
>
> It is important to come back in distros but we should not easy give up
> what belongs to OpenOffice.
>
> Juergen
>
>

Re: Apache OpenOffice in Fedora 19?

[janI]

On 7 February 2013 13:20, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 3:13 AM, Jürgen Schmidt 
> wrote:
> > On 2/7/13 8:59 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> >> Rob Weir wrote:
> >>> But I would have trademark concerns if a statement like this installed
> >>> anything but OpenOffice:
> >>> sudo yum install openoffice.org
> >>
> >> It doesn't. But indeed the openoffice.org alias has been discussed and
> I
> >> hope we can get it reassigned or dropped without invoking trademarks.
> >> Anyway, it is not one of the technically problematic aliases but just a
> >> convenience alias, so it can be addressed after we have packages ready.
> >>
> >
> > We should argue that the aliases came from OpenOffice and that they were
> > hijacked if you want by LibreOffice. They even used the package name in
> > the past to install LibreOffice and not OpenOffice. We tolerated it
> > because we had no updated version in place with the latest security
> > fixes. But that's it and the game changed, we have a current version and
> > will provide future versions.
> >
>
> It comes down to user confusion.  We've already seen users confused by
> this, where they think they are installing OpenOffice and instead get
> something else.  This is classic trademark infringement.  You can't
> offer bottles of Coca-Cola for to consumers and then fill the bottles
> with Pepsi.
>
If it is so classic, then  for sure the ASF laywers could inform Fedora
about the problem, and ask them to correct it, independently of whether or
not AOO is distribtuted. I assume that since they are the distributors they
need to make sure that their contributors uses valid trademarks.

This might be a problem on other distros as well.

Or is life not as simple as I think ?

rgds
Jan I

>
> > And again changing soffice means much more work and I really don't see
> > why we should change it because they belong to OpenOffice.
> >
> > Some magic UNO bootstrap code used by UNO client applications used the
> > soffice alias for example. Changing it would break potential client
> > applications.
> >
> > The other aliases like oowriter are obvious where they come from, why
> > should we change them?
> >
> > It is important to come back in distros but we should not easy give up
> > what belongs to OpenOffice.
> >
> > Juergen
> >
> >
>

Re: Apache OpenOffice in Fedora 19?

[Rob Weir]

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 7:26 AM, janI  wrote:
> On 7 February 2013 13:20, Rob Weir  wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 3:13 AM, Jürgen Schmidt 
>> wrote:
>> > On 2/7/13 8:59 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> >> Rob Weir wrote:
>> >>> But I would have trademark concerns if a statement like this installed
>> >>> anything but OpenOffice:
>> >>> sudo yum install openoffice.org
>> >>
>> >> It doesn't. But indeed the openoffice.org alias has been discussed and
>> I
>> >> hope we can get it reassigned or dropped without invoking trademarks.
>> >> Anyway, it is not one of the technically problematic aliases but just a
>> >> convenience alias, so it can be addressed after we have packages ready.
>> >>
>> >
>> > We should argue that the aliases came from OpenOffice and that they were
>> > hijacked if you want by LibreOffice. They even used the package name in
>> > the past to install LibreOffice and not OpenOffice. We tolerated it
>> > because we had no updated version in place with the latest security
>> > fixes. But that's it and the game changed, we have a current version and
>> > will provide future versions.
>> >
>>
>> It comes down to user confusion.  We've already seen users confused by
>> this, where they think they are installing OpenOffice and instead get
>> something else.  This is classic trademark infringement.  You can't
>> offer bottles of Coca-Cola for to consumers and then fill the bottles
>> with Pepsi.
>>
> If it is so classic, then  for sure the ASF laywers could inform Fedora
> about the problem, and ask them to correct it, independently of whether or
> not AOO is distribtuted. I assume that since they are the distributors they
> need to make sure that their contributors uses valid trademarks.
>
> This might be a problem on other distros as well.
>
> Or is life not as simple as I think ?
>

I wouldn't start with the lawyers.  But we could start by expressing concern.

Another option is to give them written permission to use the trademark
for that limited purpose.

But the dangerous thing is to let someone use the trademark in an
improper way and then do nothing. That is how one can lose a
trademark.

-Rob

> rgds
> Jan I
>
>>
>> > And again changing soffice means much more work and I really don't see
>> > why we should change it because they belong to OpenOffice.
>> >
>> > Some magic UNO bootstrap code used by UNO client applications used the
>> > soffice alias for example. Changing it would break potential client
>> > applications.
>> >
>> > The other aliases like oowriter are obvious where they come from, why
>> > should we change them?
>> >
>> > It is important to come back in distros but we should not easy give up
>> > what belongs to OpenOffice.
>> >
>> > Juergen
>> >
>> >
>>

Re: Apache OpenOffice in Fedora 19?

[janI]

On 7 February 2013 13:46, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 7:26 AM, janI  wrote:
> > On 7 February 2013 13:20, Rob Weir  wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 3:13 AM, Jürgen Schmidt 
> >> wrote:
> >> > On 2/7/13 8:59 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> >> >> Rob Weir wrote:
> >> >>> But I would have trademark concerns if a statement like this
> installed
> >> >>> anything but OpenOffice:
> >> >>> sudo yum install openoffice.org
> >> >>
> >> >> It doesn't. But indeed the openoffice.org alias has been discussed
> and
> >> I
> >> >> hope we can get it reassigned or dropped without invoking trademarks.
> >> >> Anyway, it is not one of the technically problematic aliases but
> just a
> >> >> convenience alias, so it can be addressed after we have packages
> ready.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > We should argue that the aliases came from OpenOffice and that they
> were
> >> > hijacked if you want by LibreOffice. They even used the package name
> in
> >> > the past to install LibreOffice and not OpenOffice. We tolerated it
> >> > because we had no updated version in place with the latest security
> >> > fixes. But that's it and the game changed, we have a current version
> and
> >> > will provide future versions.
> >> >
> >>
> >> It comes down to user confusion.  We've already seen users confused by
> >> this, where they think they are installing OpenOffice and instead get
> >> something else.  This is classic trademark infringement.  You can't
> >> offer bottles of Coca-Cola for to consumers and then fill the bottles
> >> with Pepsi.
> >>
> > If it is so classic, then  for sure the ASF laywers could inform Fedora
> > about the problem, and ask them to correct it, independently of whether
> or
> > not AOO is distribtuted. I assume that since they are the distributors
> they
> > need to make sure that their contributors uses valid trademarks.
> >
> > This might be a problem on other distros as well.
> >
> > Or is life not as simple as I think ?
> >
>
> I wouldn't start with the lawyers.  But we could start by expressing
> concern.
>
I meant informing our laywers, so they are aware of the problemI think
they would be good at helping us expressing concern in the right tone, and
then they are involved.


>
> Another option is to give them written permission to use the trademark
> for that limited purpose.
>
> But the dangerous thing is to let someone use the trademark in an
> improper way and then do nothing. That is how one can lose a
> trademark.
>
I agree with you, and advice strongly against doing that, now that we are
aware of it.

Several trademark cases have been lost in EU, because the companies using
the trademark had proof that the trademark holder had knowledge about the
usage over longer time. The court simply judged, that since the trademark
holder "did not take action" the companies using the trademark had earned
the right to use it.

We also have to carefull with "limited purpose", because if it is accepted
on one platform, it will be hard to deny it on other platforms, and we
would problaly loose a legal battle.

but thats just my 2ct





>
> -Rob
>
> > rgds
> > Jan I
> >
> >>
> >> > And again changing soffice means much more work and I really don't see
> >> > why we should change it because they belong to OpenOffice.
> >> >
> >> > Some magic UNO bootstrap code used by UNO client applications used the
> >> > soffice alias for example. Changing it would break potential client
> >> > applications.
> >> >
> >> > The other aliases like oowriter are obvious where they come from, why
> >> > should we change them?
> >> >
> >> > It is important to come back in distros but we should not easy give up
> >> > what belongs to OpenOffice.
> >> >
> >> > Juergen
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
>

Re: Tutorial Impress

[Regina Henschel]

Hi Jorge,

jorge ivan poot diaz schrieb:

http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Tutorial_Impress

I'm in this tutorial but my question is:

1. What will I do with the codes?


The code is only an example and this special feature is implemented in 
the meantime.


Therefore I have asked, whether you have already found an area, in which 
you are interested. Or have find an "easy" bug to fix?


If you will only play around to see the work-flow, you can change for 
example a string in the *.src file and notice the changed string in the 
product later.




2. How I can see the results?


You change your local source code and then you build it again. Most 
times changes are not far-reaching and you can simple rebuild it. You 
get a new version of AOO in the folder instsetoo_native. Look for a 
subfolder "Apache_OpenOffice" there. And then some steps deeper in this 
folder tree the subfolder "install". There you will find a version of 
AOO of the same kind as you can download it.


For this version you do an "administative" install. For not to disturb 
any other user folder, you edit the file bootstrap.ini (in case of 
Windows) and change the destination of the UserInstallation, for example 
to UserInstallation=$ORIGIN/../..


Then you can start this AOO using the file soffice.exe. Now you should 
see the changes you have made.


If you think, it is all well done, you generate a patch and attach the 
patch to the issue in Bugzilla, set the drop-down-list there to "request 
for review" and write a mail to this list with a request for review.


In some cases you cannot simple rebuild it, but have to make a new, 
clean build by first removing the old building output.


When you ask here, you should always tell on which system do you build, 
because some files are named different. I have got only a build on Windows.


Kind regards
Regina




2013/2/5 Kay Schenk 


On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Regina Henschel 
wrote:



Hi,

Kay Schenk schrieb:

  On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 9:30 AM, jorge ivan poot diaz <

ivan.pootd...@gmail.com> wrote:

  I'm in this tutorial but my question is:


1. What will I do with the codes?

2. How I can do it?

Help me!



Please look at the bottom of the page, you see " 21. Dezember 2006". So

it

is an old tutorial. Nevertheless it might be useful, if you will work
Impress. Do you want to work in Impress?

The tutorial shows you, how to add an item to the context menu of a
selected graphic. If you want to work in that area, you can try to
understand the code and have a look, how this feature is actually
implemented and whether the description is still correct.

Do you have already found a topic you want to work on?




Could you give us more information, the URL link, to the tutorial you're
looking at.



Hi Kay, it is http://wiki.openoffice.org/**wiki/Tutorial_Impress<

http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Tutorial_Impress>


Thanks Regina. It looked almost like Jorge's original message got truncated
or something, so it was a mystery to me.







You may also find the forums,
http://user.services.**openoffice.org/<

http://user.services.openoffice.org/>


or users mailing list,
http://openoffice.apache.org/**mailing-lists.html<

http://openoffice.apache.org/mailing-lists.html>


helpful.



I think, Jorge will become a developer for Apache OpenOffice.

Kind regards
Regina





--


MzK

"A great deal of talent is lost to the world
   for want of a little courage."
  -- Sydney Smith

Re: About Tutorial

[Regina Henschel]

Hi Henry,

Henry Tiquet Leyva schrieb:

Hi team,
I am beging with the hackings in AOo. I have already built the source code
  and I have done the "about" tutorial but I have not idea how to see the
changes.
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Tutorial_About
I am working with Ubuntu 12.10



Please read my answer to Jorge. I think you problem is very similar.

If you first want to learn the work-flow without really fixing a bug, 
you can for example alter the position of a button and watch the changed 
position in the new AOO later on.


You should then find an area of interest or an "easy" bug to really 
start work.


Kind regards
Regina

BZ issues with patches

[Rob Weir]

I noticed last night that we have a lot of open BZ issues with patches
attached.  This query shows nearly 500 of them:

https://issues.apache.org/ooo/buglist.cgi?f1=attachments.ispatch&list_id=44808&o1=equals&resolution=---&query_format=advanced&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=CONFIRMED&bug_status=ACCEPTED&v1=1

I did a spot check and there is quite a mix of material here:

1) Some are recent patches, from Pedro, for example.

2) Some are patches from Symphony from 2012 that have not yet been integrated

3) Some are user-submitted patches, some quite old, which were stalled
for good reasons, e.g., they included GPL code.

4) Some are ones that seem quite reasonable and should probably be integrated.

So a good task for developers with a few minutes, is to check the
results of the above query and see if you can can find some good
patches.  Even if you have no time to integrate them yourself, maybe
mark some of them as "easy" tasks for new developers.

Thanks!

-Rob

Re: BZ issues with patches

[Alexandro Colorado]

Is Pedro a commiter? If not, should we propose him as one?

On 2/7/13, Rob Weir  wrote:
> I noticed last night that we have a lot of open BZ issues with patches
> attached.  This query shows nearly 500 of them:
>
> https://issues.apache.org/ooo/buglist.cgi?f1=attachments.ispatch&list_id=44808&o1=equals&resolution=---&query_format=advanced&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=CONFIRMED&bug_status=ACCEPTED&v1=1
>
> I did a spot check and there is quite a mix of material here:
>
> 1) Some are recent patches, from Pedro, for example.
>
> 2) Some are patches from Symphony from 2012 that have not yet been
> integrated
>
> 3) Some are user-submitted patches, some quite old, which were stalled
> for good reasons, e.g., they included GPL code.
>
> 4) Some are ones that seem quite reasonable and should probably be
> integrated.
>
> So a good task for developers with a few minutes, is to check the
> results of the above query and see if you can can find some good
> patches.  Even if you have no time to integrate them yourself, maybe
> mark some of them as "easy" tasks for new developers.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Rob
>


-- 
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
http://es.openoffice.org

Re: BZ issues with patches

[Rob Weir]

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:06 AM, Alexandro Colorado  wrote:
> Is Pedro a commiter? If not, should we propose him as one?
>

Yes, he is a committer.  When a committer puts a patch into BZ it is
essentially asking for a "review-then-commit".  That's fine.

-Rob

> On 2/7/13, Rob Weir  wrote:
>> I noticed last night that we have a lot of open BZ issues with patches
>> attached.  This query shows nearly 500 of them:
>>
>> https://issues.apache.org/ooo/buglist.cgi?f1=attachments.ispatch&list_id=44808&o1=equals&resolution=---&query_format=advanced&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=CONFIRMED&bug_status=ACCEPTED&v1=1
>>
>> I did a spot check and there is quite a mix of material here:
>>
>> 1) Some are recent patches, from Pedro, for example.
>>
>> 2) Some are patches from Symphony from 2012 that have not yet been
>> integrated
>>
>> 3) Some are user-submitted patches, some quite old, which were stalled
>> for good reasons, e.g., they included GPL code.
>>
>> 4) Some are ones that seem quite reasonable and should probably be
>> integrated.
>>
>> So a good task for developers with a few minutes, is to check the
>> results of the above query and see if you can can find some good
>> patches.  Even if you have no time to integrate them yourself, maybe
>> mark some of them as "easy" tasks for new developers.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>
>
> --
> Alexandro Colorado
> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> http://es.openoffice.org

Re: Apache OpenOffice in Fedora 19?

[RA Stehmann]

Am 07.02.2013 13:26, schrieb janI:

> If it is so classic, then  for sure the ASF laywers could inform Fedora
> about the problem, and ask them to correct it, independently of whether or
> not AOO is distribtuted. I assume that since they are the distributors they
> need to make sure that their contributors uses valid trademarks.
> 
> This might be a problem on other distros as well.
> 
> Or is life not as simple as I think ?
> 
No, it isn't.

It isn't really nice to sue another free software project.

And using trademarks to break another free software projects will, seems
no good idea nor a good public relation since Mozilla tried it. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation_software_rebranded_by_the_Debian_project

Because of the licence it's quite easy to fork and rebrand AOO, so we've
to be carefully to guard and promote our brand and save the respect of
our project in the free software community.

Regards
Michael



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Apache OpenOffice in Fedora 19?

[Rob Weir]

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:51 AM, RA Stehmann
 wrote:
> Am 07.02.2013 13:26, schrieb janI:
>
>> If it is so classic, then  for sure the ASF laywers could inform Fedora
>> about the problem, and ask them to correct it, independently of whether or
>> not AOO is distribtuted. I assume that since they are the distributors they
>> need to make sure that their contributors uses valid trademarks.
>>
>> This might be a problem on other distros as well.
>>
>> Or is life not as simple as I think ?
>>
> No, it isn't.
>
> It isn't really nice to sue another free software project.
>

Please don't put words in anyone's mouth.  No one, other than you,
mentioned suing.  One value of lawyers is that they know how to craft
a letter that *does not* escalate things by implying a lawsuit.  This
is important.

> And using trademarks to break another free software projects will, seems
> no good idea nor a good public relation since Mozilla tried it. See:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation_software_rebranded_by_the_Debian_project
>
> Because of the licence it's quite easy to fork and rebrand AOO, so we've
> to be carefully to guard and promote our brand and save the respect of
> our project in the free software community.
>

And part of guarding the brand is to ensure that trademarks are not
used without permission.   We must require permission for the
trademarks to be used.  This is not a requirement we can ignore.  But
this does not mean that we encourage another Iceweasel thing.  That
does not logically follow, because we're only talking about the
requirement to **ask permission**.

The 2nd half of this is that when asked, we be very reasonable and
grant permission for uses that are reasonable, supports the community,
don't confuse the user, acknowledges the trademark, etc.  We've
granted permission to use the trademark dozens of times since the
OpenOffice project came to Apache.

-Rob

> Regards
> Michael
>

[Call-for-Review] code changes for more powerful smarttag extensions

[Kai Labusch]

Hi everyone,

I'm a colleague of Robert Barbey at Acrolinx and I'm working on the OpenOffice 
Writer integration of our client-server text-processing solution.
Currently, we already have a working writer extension that has been 
implemented in java and provides the functionality we need. 
For the implementation, we had to modify the AOO sources and add/change some 
API-functions/interfaces.

Robert already posted a call-for-review for a modification of the 
XSmartTagRecognizer interface ("[Call-for-Review] Extension to 
XSmartTagRecognizer interface", 
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121391). We modified this patch 
request according to suggestions of Ariel and Jürgen and submitted a new patch 
request that is also mentioned in this post.

During development of our writer extension we stumbled on a number of issues 
where we felt the need to modify something within AOO. 
The purpose of this post is to provide a summary of these changes and to ask 
for comments and input since there might be better ways to solve the problems 
we had without the need to change something within AOO.

We splitted all the modifications in five different patch-sets where each 
patch-set contains a number of changes that belong to a common aspect.
We submitted the patch-sets via bugzilla and I will refer to them in this post 
later on.

First, as a motivation, I would like to describe the most important aspects of 
what our writer extension does:

The extension adds a toolbar and menu to the writer application. The menu and 
toolbar have a "check"-button/entry that can be used in order to 
simultaneously check the document for different types of issues.

Among others, issues can be:
- spelling errors
- grammar errors
- style rules (like "Don't use Future tense", "Don't use passive voice")
- reuse (use a different/better phrase that already has been approved due to 
some reason)
- terminology (use a different word)
- sentence break missing
- broken link
- sentence too long
- wrong capitalization

If the user clicks the check-button, the writer extension would extract the 
text of the document and send it to a server application. 
The server application performs a linguistic analysis of the document and 
creates a report of all issues that have been identified. 
The writer extension then receives the report and marks the issues within the 
writer document. 

For each issue, a smarttag is shown where its type is depicted by the color of 
the smarttag line (colors can be configured, for instance: spelling -> red, 
grammar -> blue,  style-> green ...). 

The extension does not only send the text of the document to the linguistic 
server but also context information like character-style,  paragraph-style, 
font-type. The linguistic rules within the server application are context 
sensitive, i.e., they might behave differently  depending on the context of a 
particular part of the text (for instance different capitalization in titles).

Furthermore, they are also  context sensitive with respect to the surrounding 
text, i.e., it is not sufficient to consider only one or two words (for 
instance "sentence too long"). The context can be quite large since the system 
can be configured so that certain document structures (entire paragraphs, 
footnotes, image captions...)  are considered as parenthetic elements which 
are removed from the normal text-flow or completely ignored. Since the outcome 
of the checking process can depend on the entire document, it is not possible 
to perform the check based on a part of the text as it is done in some 
proofreading APIs.

Due to the reasons mentioned above, it is neccessary that the smarttag 
extension can globally identify and localize a particular part of the text 
within the entire document. Therefore, we felt the need to introduce a new 
interface "XRangeBasedSmartTagRecognizer" that can be optionally implemented 
in a smarttag extension. The smarttag manager inside AOO would check if a 
smarttag recognizer implements this additional interface. If the interface has 
been implemented, the smarttag manager would call "recognizeTextRange" which 
provides a globally identifiable text range to the recognizer 
(https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121730). 

To enable the marking of text by means of such a text-range, we extended the 
XTextMarkup interface (https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121734). 

To make colored smarttags possible, we felt the need to modify SwWrongArea and 
the lcl_DrawWrongListData function within the AOO sources 
(https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121733). 

If the user clicks on a smarttag, he/she gets a context menu that offers 
actions to improve the document. What these actions are depends on the type 
and context of the marked part of the text. Depending on the type of issue and 
the actual issue itself the number of actions might vary.
In order to make this possible, we felt the need to modify the XSmartTagAction 
interface 

Re: [Call-for-Review] code changes for more powerful smarttag extensions

[Jürgen Schmidt]

On 2/7/13 5:08 PM, Kai Labusch wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm a colleague of Robert Barbey at Acrolinx and I'm working on the 
> OpenOffice 
> Writer integration of our client-server text-processing solution.
> Currently, we already have a working writer extension that has been 
> implemented in java and provides the functionality we need. 
> For the implementation, we had to modify the AOO sources and add/change some 
> API-functions/interfaces.
> 
> Robert already posted a call-for-review for a modification of the 
> XSmartTagRecognizer interface ("[Call-for-Review] Extension to 
> XSmartTagRecognizer interface", 
> https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121391). We modified this patch 
> request according to suggestions of Ariel and Jürgen and submitted a new 
> patch 
> request that is also mentioned in this post.
> 
> During development of our writer extension we stumbled on a number of issues 
> where we felt the need to modify something within AOO. 
> The purpose of this post is to provide a summary of these changes and to ask 
> for comments and input since there might be better ways to solve the problems 
> we had without the need to change something within AOO.
> 
> We splitted all the modifications in five different patch-sets where each 
> patch-set contains a number of changes that belong to a common aspect.
> We submitted the patch-sets via bugzilla and I will refer to them in this 
> post 
> later on.
> 
> First, as a motivation, I would like to describe the most important aspects 
> of 
> what our writer extension does:
> 
> The extension adds a toolbar and menu to the writer application. The menu and 
> toolbar have a "check"-button/entry that can be used in order to 
> simultaneously check the document for different types of issues.
> 
> Among others, issues can be:
> - spelling errors
> - grammar errors
> - style rules (like "Don't use Future tense", "Don't use passive voice")
> - reuse (use a different/better phrase that already has been approved due to 
> some reason)
> - terminology (use a different word)
> - sentence break missing
> - broken link
> - sentence too long
> - wrong capitalization
> 
> If the user clicks the check-button, the writer extension would extract the 
> text of the document and send it to a server application. 
> The server application performs a linguistic analysis of the document and 
> creates a report of all issues that have been identified. 
> The writer extension then receives the report and marks the issues within the 
> writer document. 
> 
> For each issue, a smarttag is shown where its type is depicted by the color 
> of 
> the smarttag line (colors can be configured, for instance: spelling -> red, 
> grammar -> blue,  style-> green ...). 
> 
> The extension does not only send the text of the document to the linguistic 
> server but also context information like character-style,  paragraph-style, 
> font-type. The linguistic rules within the server application are context 
> sensitive, i.e., they might behave differently  depending on the context of a 
> particular part of the text (for instance different capitalization in titles).
> 
> Furthermore, they are also  context sensitive with respect to the surrounding 
> text, i.e., it is not sufficient to consider only one or two words (for 
> instance "sentence too long"). The context can be quite large since the 
> system 
> can be configured so that certain document structures (entire paragraphs, 
> footnotes, image captions...)  are considered as parenthetic elements which 
> are removed from the normal text-flow or completely ignored. Since the 
> outcome 
> of the checking process can depend on the entire document, it is not possible 
> to perform the check based on a part of the text as it is done in some 
> proofreading APIs.
> 
> Due to the reasons mentioned above, it is neccessary that the smarttag 
> extension can globally identify and localize a particular part of the text 
> within the entire document. Therefore, we felt the need to introduce a new 
> interface "XRangeBasedSmartTagRecognizer" that can be optionally implemented 
> in a smarttag extension. The smarttag manager inside AOO would check if a 
> smarttag recognizer implements this additional interface. If the interface 
> has 
> been implemented, the smarttag manager would call "recognizeTextRange" which 
> provides a globally identifiable text range to the recognizer 
> (https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121730). 
> 
> To enable the marking of text by means of such a text-range, we extended the 
> XTextMarkup interface (https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121734). 
> 
> To make colored smarttags possible, we felt the need to modify SwWrongArea 
> and 
> the lcl_DrawWrongListData function within the AOO sources 
> (https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121733). 
> 
> If the user clicks on a smarttag, he/she gets a context menu that offers 
> actions to improve the document. What these actions are 

RE: $21 million per day

[Hans Zybura]

> -Original Message-
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org]
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 1:14 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; hzyb...@zybura.com
> Subject: Re: $21 million per day
> 
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 6:34 AM, Hans Zybura  wrote:
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org]
> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 9:43 PM
> >> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; market...@openoffice.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: $21 million per day
> >>
> >> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 8:43 AM, Rob Weir  wrote:
> >> > Yes, yes, we're a non-profit organization.  We don't charge for Apache
> >> > OpenOffice.  We don't pay developers.But we still do produce
> >> > something of value, and that value can be estimated.
> >> >
> >> > People need office productivity software.  The main alternative to
> >> > OpenOffice is Microsoft Office, perhaps the "Home and Student"
> >> > edition.  The latest version (2013) sells for $139.99 on Amazon.
> >> > This is for the downloadable version.
> >> >
> >>
> >> So I'm thinking more on this, and there is an assumption here that
> >> the price I pay for Office in the US is the same as anyone else pays around
> the world.
> >> But this is unlikely to be true.  This is a classic example of where
> >> the fixed costs are in the development and are high, and the variable
> >> costs are in the media and distribution and are very low.  So a
> >> global vendor's optimal strategy is to adjust the pricing
> >> country-by-country or region-by-region, to maximize their profits.
> >> They can drop the prince in some countries and raise it in others
> >> based on ability to pay.
> >>
> >> I'd love to have some help exploring the magnitude of these
> >> differences, to see if they are significant.  Let's use the price
> >> Microsoft quotes for "Home and Student 2013".  We want the 1PC
> >> perpetual license, not the per-year subscription price.
> >>
> >> Start from here:  http://office.microsoft.com.  I had to then go to
> >> "Products", "For Home" and "Learn more".
> >>
> >> When I check the US price I get $139.99
> >>
> >> When I check the German site (http://office.microsoft.com/de-de) I am
> >> quoted 139,00 €.  That is $188.04 today.
> >>
> >> When I check the Australian website I am quoted $169.00 which is
> >> $174.42 USD.
> >>
> >> The Russian website quotes 3499.00 rubles, which is $116.30.
> >>
> >> So I'm seeing some higher and some lower.  Does anyone see pricing
> >> that is outside of the range USD 116.30 - 188.04 ?
> >>
> >> This complicates the analysis, but I don't think it changes the story much.
> >>
> >> -Rob
> >
> > You can buy Microsoft products considerably below their "official" prices
> quoted on Microsoft's web sites.
> >
> > On http://geizhals.de/eu/894430
> > you can compare real market prices for different European languages in
> different countries and from different vendors.
> >
> > Microsoft Office Home and Student (1 computer) sample best prices (VAT
> > included, shipment excluded) as of Feb. 7th
> >
> > Germany: 105,11 Euro
> > Poland: 110,11 Euro = PLN 460
> > Italy: 108,04 Euro
> >
> > Differences are mostly due to differences in VAT percentage, e.g. Germany
> 19%, Poland 23%.
> >
> 
> Ah, good observation.  That would explain the difference in the US price.  In
> the US most internet sales are free of sales tax.  And even where there is tax
> it is not listed in the "sticker price", but is added after.

When a price tag is published on a web site/publication/catalogue/in a 
brick-and-mortar shop aimed at the general public, this is not allowed in 
Europe.  Only in a distinct b2b context one is allowed to publish a so called 
net price (Nettopreis) where sales tax is not included. And even then the fact 
has to be explicitly stated and clearly visible. Sales people are usually 
careful in this respect - one could get sued quite easily, otherwise.
Hans 
> 
> -Rob
> 
> > Sample Amazon prices
> > Amazon.de:  112,69 Euro
> > Amazon.at: 112,69 Euro
> > Amazon.it: 114,24 Euro
> > Amazon.co.uk: £96.50 = 111,50 EUR
> > surprisingly expensive
> > Amazon.es: 127,35 Euro
> > Amazon.fr: 129,90 Euro
> >
> > In general, the real market price in European countries seems to be
> > mostly in the range of 110,00 Euro to 115,00 Euro
> >
> > Hans
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > We have averaged 153K downloads per day of Apace OpenOffice over
> >> > the last week.  That is an average value to the public of $21.5
> >> > million per day.  Or $7.833 billion (7.833 thousand million) per year.
> >> >
> >> > To put that in perspective, here are comparable annual sales
> >> > figures for some familiar companies:
> >> >
> >> > -- Campbell Soup Company:  $7.882 billion
> >> > -- Royal Caribbean Cruises:   $7.657 billion
> >> > -- Mastercard, Inc:$7.391 billion
> >> > -- OfficeMax:$7.094 billion
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > So we're providing tremendous value to the public.  We should be
> >> > proud of wha

Re: Apache OpenOffice in Fedora 19?

[Kay Schenk]

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 4:20 AM, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 3:13 AM, Jürgen Schmidt 
> wrote:
> > On 2/7/13 8:59 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> >> Rob Weir wrote:
> >>> But I would have trademark concerns if a statement like this installed
> >>> anything but OpenOffice:
> >>> sudo yum install openoffice.org
> >>
> >> It doesn't. But indeed the openoffice.org alias has been discussed and
> I
> >> hope we can get it reassigned or dropped without invoking trademarks.
> >> Anyway, it is not one of the technically problematic aliases but just a
> >> convenience alias, so it can be addressed after we have packages ready.
> >>
>

This renaming or re-aliasing or whatever you want to call it is simply
unconscionable  by my way of thinking. I brought this up before though
somewhat couched. It IS a software trademark and perhaps copyright
infringement in my mind.

>
> > We should argue that the aliases came from OpenOffice and that they were
> > hijacked if you want by LibreOffice. They even used the package name in
> > the past to install LibreOffice and not OpenOffice. We tolerated it
> > because we had no updated version in place with the latest security
> > fixes. But that's it and the game changed, we have a current version and
> > will provide future versions.
> >
>
> It comes down to user confusion.  We've already seen users confused by
> this, where they think they are installing OpenOffice and instead get
> something else.  This is classic trademark infringement.  You can't
> offer bottles of Coca-Cola for to consumers and then fill the bottles
> with Pepsi.
>

YES, you are correct!


>
> > And again changing soffice means much more work and I really don't see
> > why we should change it because they belong to OpenOffice.
> >
> > Some magic UNO bootstrap code used by UNO client applications used the
> > soffice alias for example. Changing it would break potential client
> > applications.
> >
> > The other aliases like oowriter are obvious where they come from, why
> > should we change them?
>

again, yes!


> >
> > It is important to come back in distros but we should not easy give up
> > what belongs to OpenOffice.
>

1000% agree with this statement!


> >
> > Juergen
> >
> >
>



-- 

MzK

"A great deal of talent is lost to the world
  for want of a little courage."
 -- Sydney Smith

Re: Apache OpenOffice in Fedora 19?

[Fernando Cassia]

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 5:13 AM, Jürgen Schmidt wrote:

> We should argue that the aliases came from OpenOffice and that they were
> hijacked if you want by LibreOffice. They even used the package name in
> the past to install LibreOffice and not OpenOffice. We tolerated it
> because we had no updated version in place with the latest security
> fixes. But that's it and the game changed, we have a current version and
> will provide future versions.
>

+1

FC

Re: Apache OpenOffice in Fedora 19?

[Ariel Constenla-Haile]

On Wed, Feb 06, 2013 at 09:13:18PM +0100, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> Fedora will branch for Alpha on 2 Apr 2013: we must have something
> decently packaged by that time. At FOSDEM I met the Fedora people
> together with Herbert and Andre, so we already have some knowledge
> of the process.
> 
> More details:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ApacheOpenOffice

Does the "we must" mean the this project will be the package maintainer?


Regards
-- 
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina


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Description: PGP signature

Open Office spreadsheet

[David A Yablonsky Sr]

I am, if not a spreadsheet power user, at least a spreadsheet developer,
since 1982. Having experienced Visicalc, Multiplan, Lotus and Lotus clones,
Quattro and Excel and others, I have come to the sad conclusion that
spreadsheet applications have become overdeveloped due to the influence of
Microsoft's programming philosophies.

Specifically, Microsoft has demanded that Basic must be used to develop
macros in spreadsheets. For this reason, I use Quattro, which is apparently
the only spreadsheet to still use Lotus-style spreadsheet macros.

The linear style and modular storage of Basic-based macros limit the ability
of those users who are NOT programmers to develop useful complex macro
routines not only because of the requirement to become a Basic programmer,
but because there are actions available in Lotus-style macros that  make
Basic programming of the same actions a complicated nightmare.

In addition, I deplore the loss of database construction and query in
contemporary spreadsheet applications. This is another reason I use Quattro.
I can create a relatively small database and then query it without knowing
SQL or using another application to query the database. What ever happened
to "keep it simple"? If one wants to only manage a database, Access or other
database applications are great, but if one wants to integrate a small
database with spreadsheet functions, you're out of luck.

Spreadsheet applications all seem to want to compete with Excel, on the
assumption that they can garner a share of the market that Microsoft has
pretty much monopolized. As for me, this is wrong-headed, because if you
want to grab some market-share, your product should offer something
different than Excel; mainly, simplicity. Don't get me wrong, I use Excel
for many business applications. It's just that I find that for some of the
processes I perform on a daily basis, Excel simply can't perform due its
requirement that macros must be developed in Basic and the lack of ability
to query a limited internal database. I have downloaded Open Office and find
it to be on the path to Excel's blind alley. Too bad. What are needed are
some new views of what is really useful to the user, instead of chasing
Microsoft's arrogant "my way or the highway" philosophies.

 

D. A. Yablonsky Sr.

  truetax2...@gmail.com

Phone: 951-279-7026

Cell: 951-520-5187

 

 

Re: Problem with the API forum

[Ariel Constenla-Haile]

Hi Yessica,

On Thu, Feb 07, 2013 at 01:29:06PM -0300, Yessica Brinkmann wrote:
> Hello,
> Excuse me please write back by forum inadequate. But it's already doing 22
> hours I sent emails to the API forum but no one answers, and I have not
> received any message from this other forum participants. I do not know if
> this forum has a very low flow of mails or what happens.

I guess you need a little patience, we all are contributors, may be
busy working on other stuff, etc. (for example, I saw your mails on the
API mailing list, but didn't have time to take a look at the problems).

Besides, Basic + Base is a complex topic, and it is rather hard to get
an idea of the problem by only reading a description and a code snippet,
it would be helpful for the reader if you can upload a copy of the whole
ODB file with the forms, macros, tables, etc. For example, without
seeing the whole ODB I could have never guessed the problem you had with
fields not incrementing due to having NULL instead of a default value of
0.


Regards
-- 
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina


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Description: PGP signature

java 7 patch

[Fred Ollinger]

To whom it may concern,

Below is a patch to fix some java7 compilation bugs. Also, this is attached.

Index: hsqldb/jdbcDriver.java
===
--- hsqldb.orig/jdbcDriver.java 2013-02-07 09:17:01.0 -0800
+++ hsqldb/jdbcDriver.java  2013-02-07 09:17:32.0 -0800
@@ -31,6 +31,11 @@

 package org.hsqldb;

+//#ifdef JAVA7
+import java.sql.SQLFeatureNotSupportedException;
+import java.util.logging.Logger;
+//#enddif JAVA7
+
 import java.sql.Connection;
 import java.sql.Driver;
 import java.sql.DriverManager;
@@ -121,6 +126,12 @@
  */
 public class jdbcDriver implements Driver {

+//#ifdef JAVA7
+public Logger getParentLogger() throws SQLFeatureNotSupportedException {
+  throw new SQLFeatureNotSupportedException();
+}
+//#endif JAVA7
+
 /**
  *  Attempts to make a database connection to the given URL. The driver
  *  returns "null" if it realizes it is the wrong kind of driver to
@@ -321,4 +332,8 @@
 DriverManager.registerDriver(new jdbcDriver());
 } catch (Exception e) {}
 }
+
+public boolean isCloseOnCompletion() { return false; }
+
 }
+
Index: hsqldb/jdbc/jdbcCallableStatement.java
===
--- hsqldb.orig/jdbc/jdbcCallableStatement.java 2013-02-07
09:55:57.0 -0800
+++ hsqldb/jdbc/jdbcCallableStatement.java  2013-02-07 09:57:17.0 
-0800
@@ -302,6 +302,14 @@
 public class jdbcCallableStatement extends jdbcPreparedStatement
 implements CallableStatement {

+//#if JAVA7
+public  T getObject(String s, Class T) throws SQLException
{ throw new SQLException(); }
+public  T getObject(int i, Class T) throws SQLException {
throw new SQLException(); }
+public boolean isCloseOnCompletion() {
+ throw new UnsupportedOperationException("Not supported yet.");
+}
+//#endif JAVA7
+
 /** parameter name => parameter index */
 private IntValueHashMap parameterNameMap;

@@ -3373,11 +3381,6 @@
 {
 throw new UnsupportedOperationException("Not supported yet.");
 }
-//#endif JAVA6
-
-//#if JAVA7
-[javac] 
/mnt/lfs/sources/ubuntu/old/local_dev300/hsqldb/unxlngi6.pro/misc/build/hsqldb/src/org/hsqldb/jdbc/jdbcCallableStatement.java
:302: error: jdbcCallableStatement is not abstract and does not
override abstract method getObject(String,Class) in
CallableStatement
-
-//#endif JAVA7

+//#endif JAVA6
 }
Index: hsqldb/jdbc/jdbcConnection.java
===
--- hsqldb.orig/jdbc/jdbcConnection.java2013-02-07 11:22:20.0 
-0800
+++ hsqldb/jdbc/jdbcConnection.java 2013-02-07 11:22:43.0 -0800
@@ -31,6 +31,10 @@

 package org.hsqldb.jdbc;

+//#ifdef JAVA7
+import java.util.concurrent.Executor;
+//#endif JAVA7
+
 //#ifdef JAVA2
 import java.sql.Array;
 import java.sql.Blob;
@@ -416,6 +420,21 @@
  * @see jdbcDatabaseMetaData
  */
 public class jdbcConnection implements Connection {
+//#ifdef JAVA7
+public void abort(Executor e){}
+public int getNetworkTimeout(){
+  throw new UnsupportedOperationException("Not supported yet.");
+}
+public void setNetworkTimeout(Executor e, int i ){
+  throw new UnsupportedOperationException("Not supported yet.");
+}
+public String getSchema() {
+   throw new UnsupportedOperationException("Not supported yet.");
+}
+public void setSchema(String s) {
+   throw new UnsupportedOperationException("Not supported yet.");
+}
+//#endif JAVA7

 //  Common Attributes --

Index: hsqldb/jdbc/jdbcDatabaseMetaData.java
===
--- hsqldb.orig/jdbc/jdbcDatabaseMetaData.java  2013-02-07
11:27:01.0 -0800
+++ hsqldb/jdbc/jdbcDatabaseMetaData.java   2013-02-07 11:27:03.0 
-0800
@@ -99,7 +99,7 @@
  * 
  * A method that gets information about a feature that the driver does not
  * support will throw an SQLException.
- * In the case of methods that return a ResultSet
+ * In the case of methods that eeturn a ResultSet
  * object, either a ResultSet object (which may be empty) is
  * returned or an SQLException is thrown.
  *
@@ -282,6 +282,13 @@
  */
 public class jdbcDatabaseMetaData implements DatabaseMetaData {

+//#ifdef JAVA7
+public ResultSet getPseudoColumns(String catalog, String
schemaPattern, String tableNamePattern, String columnNamePattern)
throws SQLException {throw new SQLException(); }
+
+public boolean generatedKeyAlwaysReturned(){ return false; }
+//#endif JAVA7
+
+
 /** Used by getBestRowIdentifier to avoid extra object construction */
 static final Integer INT_COLUMNS_NO_NULLS = new Integer(columnNoNulls);

@@ -5694,3 +5701,5 @@

 //#endif JAVA6
 }
+
+
Index: hsqldb/jdbc/jdbcDataSource.java
===
--- h

Re: Will AOO write .docx?

[Andrea Pescetti]

On 01/02/2013 David Gerard wrote:

Is .docx writing scheduled for AOO any given time, 4.0 or later?


I expect that sooner or later we will implement it. But, in order to 
avoid unnecessary duplication of work, we will want to take a look at 
what comes out of the OSB Alliance effort

http://s.apache.org/openoffice-aceu2012-day-3
before tackling it. In short, I see it reasonable to expect this for 
some 4.x version, but not for 4.0.


Regards,
  Andrea.

Re: Problem with the API forum

[Alexandro Colorado]

On 2/7/13, Yessica Brinkmann  wrote:
> Hello,
> Excuse me please write back by forum inadequate. But it's already doing 22
> hours I sent emails to the API forum but no one answers, and I have not
> received any message from this other forum participants. I do not know if
> this forum has a very low flow of mails or what happens. I received
> confirmation api welcome to the forum, which means that I subscribed. I
> wanted to ask if you could continue to help me please, if this forum has
> api mails as low flow, or what recommend I do?
> Much appreciate an answer please.
> regards,
> Yessica
>

Also if you are a new user on the forum, your post needs to be
'cleared' by some of the mantainers, which mean that your post is not
visible to the rest of the forum members.

You should have got a message announcing you this, so you need to be
more patient and also provide more information. Not having enough
information on your post is enough reason to get potential
contributors to skip your post.


-- 
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
http://es.openoffice.org

Re: Problem with combobox associated macro

[Regina Henschel]

Hi Yessica,

Yessica Brinkmann schrieb:

Thank you very much for your answer. Yes, I understand this. What I do not
understand is why the ResultSet is empty. I used the same sentences as in
my previous macro (ActualizarSaldoVentas), and the ResultSet that macro was
not empty. You could help me a little more with this please?
regards,
Yessica


I'm not familiar with the combination of Base and Basic, but here are 
two general tips which might help you to find the error:

1. Always use the statement
Option Explicit
as very first line in your module. It forces you to always declare the 
variables. And that is necessary, because the automatic type assignment 
might not work as you expect.
2. Set breakpoints and use the watch window to see, what the actual 
value of a variable really is and whether it has the expected type.


Do you already know "Using Macros With OOo Base By Andrew Pitonyak" or 
the follow-up http://www.pitonyak.org/database/AndrewBase.odt ?


Kind regards
Regina




2013/2/6 Fernand Vanrie 


Yessica?



  Hello,

I have a macro in a form called Sales Payments.
What the macro should do is this: when you select a customer from a combo
box, take the current balance of the customer (which is in the the
Customer
table, saldo_actual field) and put it into a form field Payments Sales
called balance. I associated my macro to the modificated state event of
the
combo box.
The problem is that when you select a customer from the combo box, I get
the following error:
Runtime Error Basic.
There was an exception.
Type: com.sun.star.sdbc.**SQLException.
Message: The cursor points before the first row or after the last.
My macro is:
   Sub ActualizarSaldoCliente(Evento)
Dim oCon As Object
Dim oStat As Object
Dim oSaldo As Object
Dim sSQL As String
Dim oCliente As Object
Dim sCliente as String
Dim oRes As Object
Dim oFrm As Object
oFrm=Evento.Source.Model.**Parent
If oFrm.hasByName("cod_cliente") Then
oCliente=oFrm.getByName("cod_**cliente")
Else
Print "Cannot find cod_cliente"
Exit Sub
End If
 rs=oFrm.createResultSet()
 sCliente=rs.getString(rs.**findColumn("id_cliente"))



sSQL = "SELECT saldo_actual FROM cliente WHERE id_cliente='" & sCliente &
"'"


THIS STATEMENT makes a empty resultset



oCon = ThisDatabaseDocument.**CurrentController.**ActiveConnection
   oStat = oCon.CreateStatement
oRes = oStat.ExecuteQuery(sSQL)

   If oRes.next Then

oSaldo.BoundField.Value = oRes.getDouble(1)
   Else
oSaldo.BoundField.Value=0
End If

End Sub

The error occurs on the line:
   sCliente=rs.getString(rs.**findColumn("id_cliente"))
I think maybe I have this error because calling the macro from a modified
state event of the combo box does not walk the resultSet of the form, but
I
do not known  how to obtain the customer_id except through this method.
Much appreciate a response.
regards,
Yessica

vlc build error (may be associated with java7)

[Fred Ollinger]

=
Building module vcl
=

Entering /mnt/lfs/sources/ubuntu/local_dev300/vcl/prj

cd .. && make -s -r -j1
[ build DEP ] LNK:Library/libvclplug_gtkli.so
make: *** No rule to make target
`/usr/include/glib-2.0/glib/gcache.h', needed by
`/mnt/lfs/sources/ubuntu/local_dev300/solver/300/unxlngi6.pro/workdir/CxxObject/vcl/unx/gtk/a11y/atkaction.o'.
 Stop.
dmake:  Error code 2, while making 'all'

I'm currently working on a patch to fix this, but I wanted mailing
list to be aware and to see if anyone is working on this.

1 module(s):
vcl
need(s) to be rebuilt

Reason(s):

ERROR: error 65280 occurred while making
/mnt/lfs/sources/ubuntu/local_dev300/vcl/prj

Attention: if you fix the errors in above module(s) you may prolongue
your the build issuing command:

build --all:vcl

Re: Will AOO write .docx?

[Regina Henschel]

Hi Andrea,

Andrea Pescetti schrieb:

On 01/02/2013 David Gerard wrote:

Is .docx writing scheduled for AOO any given time, 4.0 or later?


I expect that sooner or later we will implement it. But, in order to
avoid unnecessary duplication of work, we will want to take a look at
what comes out of the OSB Alliance effort
http://s.apache.org/openoffice-aceu2012-day-3
before tackling it. In short, I see it reasonable to expect this for
some 4.x version, but not for 4.0.



LibreOffice has already integrated parts of it. Shouldn't we ask 
Matthias Stürmer to sent us the source code?


Kind regards
Regina

Re: Sidebar color scheme survey

[Andrea Pescetti]

On 29/01/2013 Andre Fischer wrote:

I would like to ask you to either look at the mockups at [1] or try the
developer builds [2] and tell me what color scheme you like best.


We have two votes for A2 at
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-progetto-it/201301.mbox/browser
to which I'll add mine too. So make it +3 for proposal A2 as listed at
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_UX_Design_Exploration_-_Task_Pane_Content_Panel_-_User_Interface_Design_Proposals#Task_Pane_Content_Panel_-_UX_Design_propoals

Regards,
  Andrea.

Re: Apache OpenOffice in Fedora 19?

[Jörg Schmidt]

> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org] 

> It comes down to user confusion.  We've already seen users confused by
> this, where they think they are installing OpenOffice and instead get
> something else.  This is classic trademark infringement.  You can't
> offer bottles of Coca-Cola for to consumers and then fill the bottles
> with Pepsi.

+1

Yes, this is a true statement.

In my opinion the problem is not only the problem with the trade mark (or the 
simple program-name) but also a public relations problem.
 I do not know the team of Feodora, but I know many people of LO / TDF and, let 
me be clear, _some_ (_not_ all) consider it well to cultivate a public 
representation that users subliminally says that LO's successor OOo is . (not 
as an official statement, but subliminally)

I think these things are a real problem for AOO (In the public perception) and 
we must endeavor that something is changing.
Do not get me miss, it's not a matter of dispute, but a question of correct 
handling each other.


Greetings
Jörg

Re: Apache OpenOffice in Fedora 19?

[Pavel Janík]

> In my opinion the problem is not only the problem with the trade mark (or the 
> simple program-name) but also a public relations problem.
> I do not know the team of Feodora, but I know many people of LO / TDF and, 
> let me be clear, _some_ (_not_ all) consider it well to cultivate a public 
> representation that users subliminally says that LO's successor OOo is . (not 
> as an official statement, but subliminally)

Is it LO who is infringing on our trademark or is it Fedora who is misusing our 
trademark for other project? Shouldn't we notify Fedora people politely about 
this situation and let them (and help them!) solve the issue first?
-- 
Pavel Janík

Re: Apache OpenOffice in Fedora 19?

[Jörg Schmidt]

Hello,
 
> From: Pavel Janík [mailto:pa...@janik.cz] 

> Is it LO who is infringing on our trademark or is it Fedora 
> who is misusing our trademark for other project? 

I'm not sure how to understand this question.

Please understand that I am not a developer and I do not understand the 
technical
details, I do not know exactly who is to blame.

> Shouldn't we 
> notify Fedora people politely about this situation 

yes, absolutely. there you are absolutely right.

> and let them (and help them!) solve the issue first?

Yes.


(again my position:
I have *no* criticism of Feodora, I have *no general* criticism of LO but I know
_some_ people (from TDF/LO) do not feel uncomfortable when they see the user to
mistakenly believe that LO would be the successor of OOo.)


Greetings,
Jörg

Re: Problem with the API forum

[Yessica Brinkmann]

I understand, thank you very much. I really do not like the idea that my
posts are "modified" by others, and that could mean, for example, something
I did not say. Actually I did not receive any notification about this. Also
I think if my messages are not understood, that I should be notified, for
education and respect, asking for more information, and not simply be
ignored. I understand that these are policies of the forum, but just saying
that I disagree with them. However, for personal reasons, I will
unsubscribe for the forum.
Regards,
Yessica

2013/2/7 Alexandro Colorado 

> On 2/7/13, Yessica Brinkmann  wrote:
> > Hello,
> > Excuse me please write back by forum inadequate. But it's already doing
> 22
> > hours I sent emails to the API forum but no one answers, and I have not
> > received any message from this other forum participants. I do not know if
> > this forum has a very low flow of mails or what happens. I received
> > confirmation api welcome to the forum, which means that I subscribed. I
> > wanted to ask if you could continue to help me please, if this forum has
> > api mails as low flow, or what recommend I do?
> > Much appreciate an answer please.
> > regards,
> > Yessica
> >
>
> Also if you are a new user on the forum, your post needs to be
> 'cleared' by some of the mantainers, which mean that your post is not
> visible to the rest of the forum members.
>
> You should have got a message announcing you this, so you need to be
> more patient and also provide more information. Not having enough
> information on your post is enough reason to get potential
> contributors to skip your post.
>
>
> --
> Alexandro Colorado
> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> http://es.openoffice.org
>

Re: Apache OpenOffice in Fedora 19?

[Andrea Pescetti]

Pavel Janík wrote:

Is it LO who is infringing on our trademark or is it Fedora who is
misusing our trademark for other project? Shouldn't we notify Fedora
people politely about this situation and let them (and help them!)
solve the issue first?


This part of the thread is derailing a bit (nothing against Pavel, just 
picking one message). It started with Rob saying that IF "sudo yum 
install openoffice.org" installed something else than OpenOffice THEN he 
would have had trademark concerns. I answered that this is NOT the case 
in Fedora (others reported that other distributions do otherwise, but 
this is irrelevant to this thread, even though it's worth addressing in 
a separate discussion).


I attended the Fedora Engineering Steering Committee chat yesterday. We 
can get back to them easily if we don't agree on aliases with the 
LibreOffice packagers. But for the time being the main issue is to be 
able to package OpenOffice.


I already noted on the Fedora lists that, while the Committee doesn't 
want to reassign the "oowriter" alias since it must point to a default 
application (so to LibreOffice), the "openoffice.org" alias (which is 
identical, capitalization aside, to the "OpenOffice.org" trademark) was 
not discussed yesterday. But I hope we can get it sorted out together 
with the LibreOffice packagers for Fedora, and if it doesn't happen I'll 
raise the "openoffice.org" issue with the Committee.


Again, packaging is the real issue now. Let's make OpenOffice for Fedora 
exist before we come to these issues. I'll continue the discussion in 
the other branch of this thread.


Regards,
  Andrea.

Re: Sidebar color scheme survey

[Rob Weir]

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
> On 29/01/2013 Andre Fischer wrote:
>>
>> I would like to ask you to either look at the mockups at [1] or try the
>> developer builds [2] and tell me what color scheme you like best.
>
>
> We have two votes for A2 at
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-progetto-it/201301.mbox/browser
> to which I'll add mine too. So make it +3 for proposal A2 as listed at
> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_UX_Design_Exploration_-_Task_Pane_Content_Panel_-_User_Interface_Design_Proposals#Task_Pane_Content_Panel_-_UX_Design_propoals
>

A bunch of responses on Facebook as well:

https://www.facebook.com/ApacheOO/posts/490670047645797

I asked for a preference and "why", so the comments are interesting as well.

-Rob

> Regards,
>   Andrea.

Any French Canadians to confirm this bug?

[Rob Weir]

It is related to currency formatting:

https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=121573

Thanks!

-Rob

Re: Problem with the API forum

[Rory O'Farrell]

On Thu, 7 Feb 2013 18:57:13 -0300
Yessica Brinkmann  wrote:

> I understand, thank you very much. I really do not like the idea that my
> posts are "modified" by others, and that could mean, for example, something
> I did not say. Actually I did not receive any notification about this. Also
> I think if my messages are not understood, that I should be notified, for
> education and respect, asking for more information, and not simply be
> ignored. I understand that these are policies of the forum, but just saying
> that I disagree with them. However, for personal reasons, I will
> unsubscribe for the forum.
> Regards,
> Yessica

I think  there may be a language misunderstanding here, involving the two words 
"modified" and "moderated". I  think the word mofifiied was used in error for 
moderated. I am not involved with the API forum but my knowledge of the 
en-Forum is this (and I would not expect the API forum to be much different): 

the initial posts are "moderated", that is, inspected to be sure that they are 
not "spam", carrying advertising, or trivial posts consisting of pointless 
"noise".  Unfortunately this has become necessary for initial posters to many 
newsgroups, mailing lists and forums, to help reduce the nuisance ostings and 
try to keep the list relevant to its purpose.  A user's posts are in general 
not modified; a group moderator might correct a spelling error (typos can 
happen to the best of us!) or change a mistranslated term to the correct one, 
but only to clarify the sense, in the intention to be helpful.

Once a user has had a posting approved his postings are displayed immediately.  
This process is sufficient to reduce the level of spam and noise postings 
significantly.

I hope that explanation sets your mind at rest, Yessica.


> 
> 2013/2/7 Alexandro Colorado 
> 
> > On 2/7/13, Yessica Brinkmann  wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > > Excuse me please write back by forum inadequate. But it's already doing
> > 22
> > > hours I sent emails to the API forum but no one answers, and I have not
> > > received any message from this other forum participants. I do not know if
> > > this forum has a very low flow of mails or what happens. I received
> > > confirmation api welcome to the forum, which means that I subscribed. I
> > > wanted to ask if you could continue to help me please, if this forum has
> > > api mails as low flow, or what recommend I do?
> > > Much appreciate an answer please.
> > > regards,
> > > Yessica
> > >
> >
> > Also if you are a new user on the forum, your post needs to be
> > 'cleared' by some of the mantainers, which mean that your post is not
> > visible to the rest of the forum members.
> >
> > You should have got a message announcing you this, so you need to be
> > more patient and also provide more information. Not having enough
> > information on your post is enough reason to get potential
> > contributors to skip your post.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Alexandro Colorado
> > Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> > http://es.openoffice.org
> >


-- 
Rory O'Farrell 

Re: Apache OpenOffice in Fedora 19?

[Andrea Pescetti]

Ariel Constenla-Haile wrote:

On Wed, Feb 06, 2013 at 09:13:18PM +0100, Andrea Pescetti wrote:

Fedora will branch for Alpha on 2 Apr 2013: we must have something
decently packaged by that time. At FOSDEM I met the Fedora people
together with Herbert and Andre, so we already have some knowledge
of the process. ...
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ApacheOpenOffice

Does the "we must" mean the this project will be the package maintainer?


There might be a distinction between "the project" and "individuals from 
the project", but yes, essentially this is work that is better done by 
project volunteers: there are a number of issues with packaging that the 
project must be aware of, and there's no better way than actually trying.


My main concern on the "can we work on the Fedora packaging within the 
project?" issue was the license of the spec files that the RPMs must be 
based on, but people on the Fedora list clarified today that the spec 
file is under the MIT license, and thus "Category A" (i.e., something 
that the project can incorporate and use; it is not going to be formally 
released anyway):

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Licensing:Main?rd=Licensing#License_of_Fedora_SPEC_Files

I'll surely have a look at packaging, but everybody is of course welcome 
to join. I already have some notes: shall I start a wiki page?


Note: I'm not saying that the packaging for ALL Linux distributions 
should be done within the project; I'm saying that it's good to do this 
first packaging within the project to be sure that we capture the many 
issues that we are going to meet...


Regards,
  Andrea.

Re: Apache OpenOffice in Fedora 19?

[Kay Schenk]

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:

> Pavel Janík wrote:
>
>> Is it LO who is infringing on our trademark or is it Fedora who is
>> misusing our trademark for other project? Shouldn't we notify Fedora
>> people politely about this situation and let them (and help them!)
>> solve the issue first?
>>
>
> This part of the thread is derailing a bit (nothing against Pavel, just
> picking one message). It started with Rob saying that IF "sudo yum install
> openoffice.org" installed something else than OpenOffice THEN he would
> have had trademark concerns. I answered that this is NOT the case in Fedora
> (others reported that other distributions do otherwise, but this is
> irrelevant to this thread, even though it's worth addressing in a separate
> discussion).
>
> I attended the Fedora Engineering Steering Committee chat yesterday. We
> can get back to them easily if we don't agree on aliases with the
> LibreOffice packagers. But for the time being the main issue is to be able
> to package OpenOffice.
>
> I already noted on the Fedora lists that, while the Committee doesn't want
> to reassign the "oowriter" alias since it must point to a default
> application (so to LibreOffice), the "openoffice.org" alias (which is
> identical, capitalization aside, to the "OpenOffice.org" trademark) was not
> discussed yesterday. But I hope we can get it sorted out together with the
> LibreOffice packagers for Fedora, and if it doesn't happen I'll raise the "
> openoffice.org" issue with the Committee.
>
> Again, packaging is the real issue now. Let's make OpenOffice for Fedora
> exist before we come to these issues. I'll continue the discussion in the
> other branch of this thread.
>

This sounds good! Looking forward to it! I don't use Fedora (currently) but
would surely like to see AOO included in their standard repository.


>
> Regards,
>   Andrea.
>



-- 

MzK

"A great deal of talent is lost to the world
  for want of a little courage."
 -- Sydney Smith

Re: Sidebar color scheme survey

[Kevin Grignon]

KG 01

On Feb 8, 2013, at 6:17 AM, Rob Weir  wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
>> On 29/01/2013 Andre Fischer wrote:
>>> 
>>> I would like to ask you to either look at the mockups at [1] or try the
>>> developer builds [2] and tell me what color scheme you like best.
>> 
>> 
>> We have two votes for A2 at
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-progetto-it/201301.mbox/browser
>> to which I'll add mine too. So make it +3 for proposal A2 as listed at
>> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_UX_Design_Exploration_-_Task_Pane_Content_Panel_-_User_Interface_Design_Proposals#Task_Pane_Content_Panel_-_UX_Design_propoals
>> 
> 
> A bunch of responses on Facebook as well:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/ApacheOO/posts/490670047645797
> 
> I asked for a preference and "why", so the comments are interesting as well.
> 
> -Rob

Can someone summarize the sentiment on facebook for those of us who cannot 
access such social media sites. 

Thanks,
Kevin



> 
>> Regards,
>>  Andrea.

Re: lost files

[Kay Schenk]

On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Shirley Fabel  wrote:

> I had corrupt files on my computer and have had to have it stripped 3
> times and reloaded.  They could not put Microsoft  Word back on (it came
> with the computer) and installed Open Office instead.  I still had my files
> after the 1st stripping but lost some important ones after the 2nd
> stripping.  Is it possible they are still somewhere in my computer?  If
> not, is it possible to scan documents and send them to Open Office?  If I
> can do that, will it be possible to edit them after they are there?
>
> Shirley Fabel
> srfa...@cccomm.net


 Hi Shirley,

So sorry to hear about all your computer woes.

To try to answer your questions:

"Is it possible they are still somewhere in my computer? "

I am NOT really trained in this area, but I would say your files might
still be on your computer somewhere in some form. This would depend a lot
on how your computer was stripped (and multiple times at that). So this is
not easy to say. You should probably ask your tech to help you on this one.

 "If not, is it possible to scan documents and send them to Open Office? "

If you scan your documents, you can probably save them or have them saved
as PDFs or possibly some other format that you could then "do" something
with.  You would need to check on output formats provided to you.
OpenOffice can directly import MS Office formats, for example. And, if your
scanned output is PDF, you could  see if the Oracle PDF Import Extension
would work for you...

http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/project/pdfimport


For further help with anything like this, I'm sure you would find the
OpenOffice forums helpful:

http://forum.openoffice.org/

Good luck.

-- 

MzK

"A great deal of talent is lost to the world
  for want of a little courage."
 -- Sydney Smith

Draft blog post: $21 million per day

[Rob Weir]

https://blogs.apache.org/preview/OOo/?previewEntry=21_million_per_day

Hoping to publish early next week.

Regards,

-Rob

Re: Draft blog post: $21 million per day

[Rob Weir]

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 7:39 PM, Rob Weir  wrote:
> https://blogs.apache.org/preview/OOo/?previewEntry=21_million_per_day
>

I should mention that the chart was developed by volunteers on the
marketing list, a team effort collecting and transcribing the data and
great work by Samer Mansour in producing the maps.

-Rob


> Hoping to publish early next week.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob

Re: [bikeshed] I like blue titles.

[Kevin Grignon]

If I understand correctly, the goal is to emphasize the message and links to 
drive action. 

Robs suggestion to create a compelling graphic makes sense. 

Beyond font colour, we can use more info design and visual design to call 
attention to the message. 

Regards,
Kevin


On Feb 2, 2013, at 7:16 AM, Dave Fisher  wrote:

> 
> On Feb 1, 2013, at 3:04 PM, Pedro Giffuni wrote:
> 
>> Thank you Dave!
>> 
>> It's still perfectly visible without being too scandalous. I like it.
>> 
>> Now for a new bikeshed ... I would use "Volunteers wanted", instead of 
>> "Volunteers needed" ;).
> 
> Semantics are important!
> 
>> 
>> Just kidding ...  :).
> 
> It's not a bikeshed it is a good point! Done!
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
>> 
>> Pedro.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Da: Dave Fisher 
>>> A: dev@openoffice.apache.org 
>>> Inviato: Venerdì 1 Febbraio 2013 17:49
>>> Oggetto: Re: [bikeshed] I like blue titles.
>>> 
>>> On Feb 1, 2013, at 1:56 PM, Tanja Meece wrote:
>>> 
 Red immediately sends up a warning flag in my mind and that of other user's
 I'm sure.
>>> 
>>> That was the original intent.
>>> 
 There has to be some way to change the color.
>>> 
>>> There is and it is done! It is now the same blue as the rest of the header 
>>> text.
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Dave
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 
 TMCM
 
 On Feb 1, 2013 9:43 AM, "Pedro Giffuni"  wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> Da: Dave Fisher
> ...
 Can we change the red title in the website ("Call for Volunteers",
 as of lately) to dark blue?
 
 The reasons:
 
 - The tone of red chosen looks like it was made to fit at the last
 moment. It has no aesthetic coherence with the rest of the website.
>> 
>> It was chosen quickly and I was thinking it would be for unusual events.
>> 
>> 
> Firstly, I hope I am doing this properly, if not I apologize in
 advance.
> 
> I agree. I believe that a red sends the wrong signals. It sends up
 more of a warning flag, rather than an invitation for volunteers.
> 
> The first time I saw it I thought I'd done something wrong.
> 
> I recall it started when we were about to release 3.4 and the blog went
> down so we just had to release on the website.
> 
>> Now it appears to be a common element which is OK.
>> 
> 
> It is being changed everytime there's something to communicate:
> Like if we break (yet) another download milestone.
> 
> The red chair is becoming part of the furniture.
> 
>> 
 
 - It makes us look desperate (or so seem to think some bloggers).
 
>>> 
>>> The concern should be "what works?" Not "what some bloggers think".
>>> Breaking out from the visual clutter of the page is important. We want
>>> to stand out, not blend in and be overlooked. IMHO.
>> 
>> I like blue if it will always be there
>> 
> 
> I suspect we will have it forever :(.
> 
>>> 
>>> Oh course there are other ways of standing out, like with a banner
>>> graphic. That could give us a more professional image while still
>>> standing out.
>> 
>> What ever can be done...
>> 
> 
> Again, just chose a color for the bikeshed that seems average
> among the proposals ;).
> 
> Pedro.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
> 

Re: Draft blog post: $21 million per day

[Tanja Meece]

Dear Rob,
That is an awesome blog. Until, people read it they won't truly be aware of
Apache, Open Office or how important and widespread the software really is.
I would like to put a link to the blog post, in a blog I'm in the process
of writing, if you will allow me.
Tanja Meece

TMCM
On Feb 7, 2013 4:40 PM, "Rob Weir"  wrote:

> https://blogs.apache.org/preview/OOo/?previewEntry=21_million_per_day
>
> Hoping to publish early next week.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>

Re: Draft blog post: $21 million per day

[Rob Weir]

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 7:59 PM, Tanja Meece
 wrote:
> Dear Rob,
> That is an awesome blog. Until, people read it they won't truly be aware of
> Apache, Open Office or how important and widespread the software really is.
> I would like to put a link to the blog post, in a blog I'm in the process
> of writing, if you will allow me.

Hi Tanja,

Thanks for the kind words.   This is just a draft, so please wait
until I get more feedback from the community and make any needed
changes.  When I post the final version I'll send you a note with the
final URL.

Thanks!

-Rob

> Tanja Meece
>
> TMCM
> On Feb 7, 2013 4:40 PM, "Rob Weir"  wrote:
>
>> https://blogs.apache.org/preview/OOo/?previewEntry=21_million_per_day
>>
>> Hoping to publish early next week.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -Rob
>>

Re: Draft blog post: $21 million per day

[Donald Whytock]

"oer country" -> "per country"

Aside from that...do you need TMs or acknowledgments for referencing
Microsoft, its products by name, and the contents of its website?

Don

Re: Sidebar color scheme survey

[Rob Weir]

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 7:20 PM, Kevin Grignon  wrote:
> KG 01
>
> On Feb 8, 2013, at 6:17 AM, Rob Weir  wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Andrea Pescetti  wrote:
>>> On 29/01/2013 Andre Fischer wrote:

 I would like to ask you to either look at the mockups at [1] or try the
 developer builds [2] and tell me what color scheme you like best.
>>>
>>>
>>> We have two votes for A2 at
>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-progetto-it/201301.mbox/browser
>>> to which I'll add mine too. So make it +3 for proposal A2 as listed at
>>> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_UX_Design_Exploration_-_Task_Pane_Content_Panel_-_User_Interface_Design_Proposals#Task_Pane_Content_Panel_-_UX_Design_propoals
>>>
>>
>> A bunch of responses on Facebook as well:
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/ApacheOO/posts/490670047645797
>>
>> I asked for a preference and "why", so the comments are interesting as well.
>>
>> -Rob
>
> Can someone summarize the sentiment on facebook for those of us who cannot 
> access such social media sites.
>

Sorry.  It is easy to forget that Facebook is not accessible
everywhere.  Here is a copy/paste:


Tomáš Kebert B2. Gradient would look inconsistent on different
platforms, emboss looks oldschool, and so does the dark gray
background of titles.

Tomáš Kebert On a different note, I think something like "apply these
setting on the style used" would come in handy added to such panel.

Martin Schröder i'd vote for proposal 2, but i don't like either of
a,b,c. i think b is the most clearly variant, but the groups of
buttons should be separated differently (i don't know how...)

Shaun Michael Coates Proposal 3 - My eyes easily distinguished content
panels with this option.

Proposal B - The simple lines as a spliter looks the cleanest.

Rob Lewellyn Proposal 3. Nicest contrast!

Luis Elizondo B3 is my favorite. B2 it's nice too.

Michael Cohen B3 is my pick! It's easy to read and it's separates the
buttons nicely.

Matthew Nelson B3 BINGO!

Mindaugas Baranauskas A3

Francesco Esposito even the toolbar at the top of the same color
(gray), the pale blue of Windows is horrible

Francesco Esposito A2 or B2

Raffaello Palandri A1

Osvaldo Meloni VERY DIFFICUL diria Tevez !

Ariel Shushan B3 - easiest to read

Gonzalo Varela B1 for me. Classy, easy on eyes and clear to read, I
avoid bright backgrunds in apps that you spend a lot of time workin on
it. Keep it simple please.

Cátia Gonçalves B2



> Thanks,
> Kevin
>
>
>
>>
>>> Regards,
>>>  Andrea.

Re: Tutorial Client

[Ariel Constenla-Haile]

On Thu, Feb 07, 2013 at 06:54:46PM -0600, jorge ivan poot diaz wrote:
> Hello,
> I'm working on this tutorial:
> 
> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Tutorial_Client

These tutorials are rather old, simply look at the date in the diffs
(2005)! I doubt the code  will even match the current trunk, besides
that module was converted to other build system, you won't even find the
dmake makefile.

Please look at the advice given by Regina in the thread "Tutorial
Impress" http://markmail.org/thread/2rwf34x3r7df7mal

I'm sure there is something you don't like about the current version of
OpenOffice, you can focus on this, ask for pointers in the source code,
and start diving in the source.

Another approach will be to look for easy-to-fix bugs in bugzilla.



Regards
-- 
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina


pgpYXWohRynsb.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Draft blog post: $21 million per day

[Rob Weir]

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 8:09 PM, Donald Whytock  wrote:
> "oer country" -> "per country"
>

Got it.  Thanks.

> Aside from that...do you need TMs or acknowledgments for referencing
> Microsoft, its products by name, and the contents of its website?
>

They list their trademarks here:
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/legal/intellectualproperty/Trademarks/EN-US.aspx

The individual Office component names are trademarked, as well as
logos, but they don't list a trademark on Office itself.  According to
this article they were rather late in trying to register these
trademarks:

http://news.cnet.com/Microsoft-registers-trademark--19-years-late/2100-1012_3-5449348.html

-Rob

> Don

Re: Draft blog post: $21 million per day

[Donald Whytock]

Looking at the map...That grey piece on the end of Somalia is, as far
as I know, part of Somalia.  Beyond that, there's apparently only two
countries of significant size for which you don't have nonzero figures
for?  Serious saturation, that.  Comment-worthy?

Don

AOO on the Cloud

[Albino Biasutti Neto]

Hi

I believe that everyone should have read or used the service Google 
Drive [0], and also has other alternatives like Zoho [1].


0 - google.com/drive
1 - zoho.com

I don't remember having read or seen in the historical list that 
suggestion.


The idea would be to create a package in cloud office: text, 
spreadsheet, presentation. The basics first.


A suggestion for the future of Apache OpenOffice. :-)

--
Albino Biasutti Neto
Software Livre | Open Source | Free Software
albino.ws  ...  @bino28 no identi.ca
~bino28 -- s.apache.org/zKb

Re: Draft blog post: $21 million per day

[Rob Weir]

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 8:26 PM, Donald Whytock  wrote:
> Looking at the map...That grey piece on the end of Somalia is, as far
> as I know, part of Somalia.  Beyond that, there's apparently only two

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somaliland ??

> countries of significant size for which you don't have nonzero figures
> for?  Serious saturation, that.  Comment-worthy?
>

North Korea is one that I know of.  But they have their own "Red Star"
OS based on Linux, and from these screen shots it looks like they have
some version of OpenOffice.org:

http://ashen-rus.livejournal.com/4300.html


> Don

Re: Draft blog post: $21 million per day

[Yue Helen]

Just read it. A great blog! and I'm proud of our work here.

Helen

2013/2/8 Rob Weir 

> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 8:26 PM, Donald Whytock  wrote:
> > Looking at the map...That grey piece on the end of Somalia is, as far
> > as I know, part of Somalia.  Beyond that, there's apparently only two
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somaliland ??
>
> > countries of significant size for which you don't have nonzero figures
> > for?  Serious saturation, that.  Comment-worthy?
> >
>
> North Korea is one that I know of.  But they have their own "Red Star"
> OS based on Linux, and from these screen shots it looks like they have
> some version of OpenOffice.org:
>
> http://ashen-rus.livejournal.com/4300.html
>
>
> > Don
>

Re: AOO on the Cloud

[Fernando Cassia]

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 10:32 PM, Albino Biasutti Neto wrote:

>
>
> A suggestion for the future of Apache OpenOffice. :-)
>
> --
> Albino Biasutti Neto
> Software Livre | Open Source | Free Software
> albino.ws  ...  @bino28 no identi.ca
> ~bino28 -- s.apache.org/zKb
>

http://it.slashdot.org/story/12/11/08/1658257/cloud-version-of-openoffice-in-the-works

FC

-- 
During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary
act
Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto
Revolucionario
- George Orwell

Re: Presentation templates for ApacheCon NA 2013

[Shenfeng Liu]

I talked to Xin Li, who was the template designer of 2012 ApacheCon EU. She
kindly agreed to think about the template. But the problem is that next
week is Chinese Spring Festival Holidays, and Xin may not able to work on
it till Feb 16. Considering that we don't have much time left, I'd like to
call for more UX volunteers to work together on the template design.
If any one have interest in the template design, you can refer to the Apach
OpenOffice template site here  . And you
can find the template used for 2012 ApacheCon EU
here.
I think the key is the background theme, which, IMHO, should have:
(1) Apache logo + conference name;
(2) some character of the host (e.g. for 2012 ApacheCon EU, we designed the
ribbons of black+red+yellow to indicate that it was hosted in Germany).

Just my 0.02$. And I also copied to openoffice dev list, hoping to have
more volunteers.

- Shenfeng (Simon)



2013/2/7 Steve Holden 

> I believe Daniel Gruno was kind enough to do some graphics for us for
> ACEU, and I believe ShenFeng Liu of the Open Office Group prepared the
> templates. I have copied them both in case they would like to, and have
> time to, help.
>
> regards
>  Steve
>
>
>
> On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:21 AM, Mark Grover wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I was looking to see if there are any presentation templates available for
> ApacheCon NA 2013.
>
> I found some graphics at http://holdenweb.com/acna13gfx/ but no
> presentation templates. I also found a similar thread for ApacheCon Europe
> with some templates (
>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-apachecon-discuss/201210.mbox/%3c506bcc23.6070...@nanthrax.net%3E
> )
> but nothing for ApacheCon NA 2013.
>
> Any pointers or templates would be much appreciated!
>
> Thanks!
> Mark
>
>
> Steve Holden st...@holdenweb.com +1 571 484 6266  @holdenweb
> --
> Python classes (and much more) through the web http://oreillyschool.com/
> Conferences and technical event management at http://theopenbastion.com/
>
> Next event:ApacheCon NA 2013: Feb 26-28 http://na.apachecon.com/
> Community events: Barcamp Feb 24  Hackathon Feb 25   Development Mar 1/2
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: Problem with the API forum

[Andrew Douglas Pitonyak]

On 02/07/2013 04:57 PM, Yessica Brinkmann wrote:

I understand, thank you very much. I really do not like the idea that my
posts are "modified" by others, and that could mean, for example, something


A message that is "moderated" means that a person with the "moderator" 
role looked at the message and then clicked on something that says "let 
the message through exactly as it is written", or, "do not let the 
message through". If a message is not allowed through, I believe that 
you are told along with a message from the moderator as to why it was 
not let through.

Re: Draft blog post: $21 million per day

[Sally Khudairi]

Thank you, Rob. This is great. I'm happy to support this with a tweet from 
@TheASF as well as send to our dedicated media/analyst list.

Keep up the great work!

-Sally


[From the mobile; kindly excuse spelling/spacing/auto-correct anomalies]

- Reply message -
From: "Rob Weir" 
To: 
Cc: "Sally Khudairi" 
Subject: Draft blog post: $21 million per day
Date: Thu, Feb 7, 2013 7:39 PM


https://blogs.apache.org/preview/OOo/?previewEntry=21_million_per_day

Hoping to publish early next week.

Regards,

-Rob

Re: Presentation templates for ApacheCon NA 2013

[Steve Holden]

Shenfeng:

Thank you very much. I think given the season the Chinese contingent can be 
said to have fulfilled its obligations.

I trust you will all have a very joyous Spring Festival.

If any volunteer reading this wishes to approach the task, please get in touch.

regards
 Steve

On Feb 7, 2013, at 7:05 PM, Shenfeng Liu wrote:

> I talked to Xin Li, who was the template designer of 2012 ApacheCon EU. She 
> kindly agreed to think about the template. But the problem is that next week 
> is Chinese Spring Festival Holidays, and Xin may not able to work on it till 
> Feb 16. Considering that we don't have much time left, I'd like to call for 
> more UX volunteers to work together on the template design.
> If any one have interest in the template design, you can refer to the Apach 
> OpenOffice template site here . And you can find the template used for 2012 
> ApacheCon EU here .
> I think the key is the background theme, which, IMHO, should have:
> (1) Apache logo + conference name;
> (2) some character of the host (e.g. for 2012 ApacheCon EU, we designed the 
> ribbons of black+red+yellow to indicate that it was hosted in Germany).
> 
> Just my 0.02$. And I also copied to openoffice dev list, hoping to have more 
> volunteers.
> 
> - Shenfeng (Simon)
> 
> 
> 
> 2013/2/7 Steve Holden 
> I believe Daniel Gruno was kind enough to do some graphics for us for ACEU, 
> and I believe ShenFeng Liu of the Open Office Group prepared the templates. I 
> have copied them both in case they would like to, and have time to, help.
> 
> regards
>  Steve
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:21 AM, Mark Grover wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> I was looking to see if there are any presentation templates available for
>> ApacheCon NA 2013.
>> 
>> I found some graphics at http://holdenweb.com/acna13gfx/ but no
>> presentation templates. I also found a similar thread for ApacheCon Europe
>> with some templates (
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-apachecon-discuss/201210.mbox/%3c506bcc23.6070...@nanthrax.net%3E)
>> but nothing for ApacheCon NA 2013.
>> 
>> Any pointers or templates would be much appreciated!
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> Mark
> 
> Steve Holden st...@holdenweb.com +1 571 484 6266  @holdenweb
> --
> Python classes (and much more) through the web http://oreillyschool.com/
> Conferences and technical event management at http://theopenbastion.com/
> 
> Next event:ApacheCon NA 2013: Feb 26-28 http://na.apachecon.com/
> Community events: Barcamp Feb 24  Hackathon Feb 25   Development Mar 1/2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Steve Holden st...@holdenweb.com +1 571 484 6266  @holdenweb
--
Python classes (and much more) through the web http://oreillyschool.com/
Conferences and technical event management at http://theopenbastion.com/

Next event:ApacheCon NA 2013: Feb 26-28 http://na.apachecon.com/
Community events: Barcamp Feb 24  Hackathon Feb 25   Development Mar 1/2

Re: Sidebar color scheme survey

[Shenfeng Liu]

2013/2/8 Rob Weir 

> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 7:20 PM, Kevin Grignon 
> wrote:
> > KG 01
> >
> > On Feb 8, 2013, at 6:17 AM, Rob Weir  wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Andrea Pescetti 
> wrote:
> >>> On 29/01/2013 Andre Fischer wrote:
> 
>  I would like to ask you to either look at the mockups at [1] or try
> the
>  developer builds [2] and tell me what color scheme you like best.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> We have two votes for A2 at
> >>>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-progetto-it/201301.mbox/browser
> >>> to which I'll add mine too. So make it +3 for proposal A2 as listed at
> >>>
> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_UX_Design_Exploration_-_Task_Pane_Content_Panel_-_User_Interface_Design_Proposals#Task_Pane_Content_Panel_-_UX_Design_propoals
> >>>
> >>
> >> A bunch of responses on Facebook as well:
> >>
> >> https://www.facebook.com/ApacheOO/posts/490670047645797
> >>
> >> I asked for a preference and "why", so the comments are interesting as
> well.
> >>
> >> -Rob
> >
> > Can someone summarize the sentiment on facebook for those of us who
> cannot access such social media sites.
> >
>
> Sorry.  It is easy to forget that Facebook is not accessible
> everywhere.  Here is a copy/paste:
>
>
> Tomáš Kebert B2. Gradient would look inconsistent on different
> platforms, emboss looks oldschool, and so does the dark gray
> background of titles.
>
> Tomáš Kebert On a different note, I think something like "apply these
> setting on the style used" would come in handy added to such panel.
>
> Martin Schröder i'd vote for proposal 2, but i don't like either of
> a,b,c. i think b is the most clearly variant, but the groups of
> buttons should be separated differently (i don't know how...)
>
> Shaun Michael Coates Proposal 3 - My eyes easily distinguished content
> panels with this option.
>
> Proposal B - The simple lines as a spliter looks the cleanest.
>
> Rob Lewellyn Proposal 3. Nicest contrast!
>
> Luis Elizondo B3 is my favorite. B2 it's nice too.
>
> Michael Cohen B3 is my pick! It's easy to read and it's separates the
> buttons nicely.
>
> Matthew Nelson B3 BINGO!
>
> Mindaugas Baranauskas A3
>
> Francesco Esposito even the toolbar at the top of the same color
> (gray), the pale blue of Windows is horrible
>
> Francesco Esposito A2 or B2
>
> Raffaello Palandri A1
>
> Osvaldo Meloni VERY DIFFICUL diria Tevez !
>
> Ariel Shushan B3 - easiest to read
>
> Gonzalo Varela B1 for me. Classy, easy on eyes and clear to read, I
> avoid bright backgrunds in apps that you spend a lot of time workin on
> it. Keep it simple please.
>
> Cátia Gonçalves B2
>
>
>
So great to have so many feedback!

Here is my preference:
- B1 for properties panels, which have many buttons and controls.
- B3 for panels as clipart and template, which have many pictures.

In fact I like all the design options. While existing users' adaption when
they upgrade to 4.0, I suggest we start from the "normal" style in 4.0, and
improve gradually per wider feedback after.

- Shenfeng (Simon)



>
> > Thanks,
> > Kevin
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>  Andrea.
>

Re: Presentation templates for ApacheCon NA 2013

[Saransh Sharma]

Count me in I love designing ...so tell me where to start ...bytheway i am
an designer


On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 8:53 AM, Steve Holden  wrote:

> Shenfeng:
>
> Thank you very much. I think given the season the Chinese contingent can
> be said to have fulfilled its obligations.
>
> I trust you will all have a very joyous Spring Festival.
>
> If any volunteer reading this wishes to approach the task, please get in
> touch.
>
> regards
>  Steve
>
> On Feb 7, 2013, at 7:05 PM, Shenfeng Liu wrote:
>
> > I talked to Xin Li, who was the template designer of 2012 ApacheCon EU.
> She kindly agreed to think about the template. But the problem is that next
> week is Chinese Spring Festival Holidays, and Xin may not able to work on
> it till Feb 16. Considering that we don't have much time left, I'd like to
> call for more UX volunteers to work together on the template design.
> > If any one have interest in the template design, you can refer to the
> Apach OpenOffice template site here . And you can find the template used
> for 2012 ApacheCon EU here .
> > I think the key is the background theme, which, IMHO, should have:
> > (1) Apache logo + conference name;
> > (2) some character of the host (e.g. for 2012 ApacheCon EU, we designed
> the ribbons of black+red+yellow to indicate that it was hosted in Germany).
> >
> > Just my 0.02$. And I also copied to openoffice dev list, hoping to have
> more volunteers.
> >
> > - Shenfeng (Simon)
> >
> >
> >
> > 2013/2/7 Steve Holden 
> > I believe Daniel Gruno was kind enough to do some graphics for us for
> ACEU, and I believe ShenFeng Liu of the Open Office Group prepared the
> templates. I have copied them both in case they would like to, and have
> time to, help.
> >
> > regards
> >  Steve
> >
> >
> >
> > On Feb 6, 2013, at 10:21 AM, Mark Grover wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >> I was looking to see if there are any presentation templates available
> for
> >> ApacheCon NA 2013.
> >>
> >> I found some graphics at http://holdenweb.com/acna13gfx/ but no
> >> presentation templates. I also found a similar thread for ApacheCon
> Europe
> >> with some templates (
> >>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-apachecon-discuss/201210.mbox/%3c506bcc23.6070...@nanthrax.net%3E
> )
> >> but nothing for ApacheCon NA 2013.
> >>
> >> Any pointers or templates would be much appreciated!
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >> Mark
> >
> > Steve Holden st...@holdenweb.com +1 571 484 6266  @holdenweb
> > --
> > Python classes (and much more) through the web http://oreillyschool.com/
> > Conferences and technical event management at http://theopenbastion.com/
> >
> > Next event:ApacheCon NA 2013: Feb 26-28 http://na.apachecon.com/
> > Community events: Barcamp Feb 24  Hackathon Feb 25   Development Mar 1/2
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Steve Holden st...@holdenweb.com +1 571 484 6266  @holdenweb
> --
> Python classes (and much more) through the web http://oreillyschool.com/
> Conferences and technical event management at http://theopenbastion.com/
>
> Next event:ApacheCon NA 2013: Feb 26-28 http://na.apachecon.com/
> Community events: Barcamp Feb 24  Hackathon Feb 25   Development Mar 1/2
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 

Best Regards

Saransh Sharma

Upscale Consultancy PVT LTD.

Disclaimer:

--
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Re: Bugzilla -- Any interest in enabling "categories"?

[Andrea Pescetti]

On 05/02/2013 Rob Weir wrote:

You can see our current Bugzilla taxonomy here:
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/describecomponents.cgi
We have around 50 top-level "products" and within that each product
has one or more "components". ...
Bugzilla has an option that we can enable that would add an additional
level to the hierarchy, called "categories".


I wouldn't add a new level of hierarchy to a system that is already 
quite complex. But some of the existing products could become components 
of the existing "obsolete" product (groupware, oopm, wp, user-faq, 
special_projects, kde, printing, testextension, stats...) and the 
description of the core applications could be improved by adding their 
name: for example,

  ---
word processor: This is the word processor and HTML editor application.
  ---
should include "Writer" somewhere.

Regards,
  Andrea.

Re: Sidebar color scheme survey

[Samer Mansour]

I like 2A, 2B, 1B in that order.

On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 2:06 AM, Shenfeng Liu  wrote:

> 2013/2/8 Rob Weir 
>
> > On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 7:20 PM, Kevin Grignon  >
> > wrote:
> > > KG 01
> > >
> > > On Feb 8, 2013, at 6:17 AM, Rob Weir  wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Andrea Pescetti 
> > wrote:
> > >>> On 29/01/2013 Andre Fischer wrote:
> > 
> >  I would like to ask you to either look at the mockups at [1] or try
> > the
> >  developer builds [2] and tell me what color scheme you like best.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> We have two votes for A2 at
> > >>>
> >
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/openoffice-progetto-it/201301.mbox/browser
> > >>> to which I'll add mine too. So make it +3 for proposal A2 as listed
> at
> > >>>
> >
> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_UX_Design_Exploration_-_Task_Pane_Content_Panel_-_User_Interface_Design_Proposals#Task_Pane_Content_Panel_-_UX_Design_propoals
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> A bunch of responses on Facebook as well:
> > >>
> > >> https://www.facebook.com/ApacheOO/posts/490670047645797
> > >>
> > >> I asked for a preference and "why", so the comments are interesting as
> > well.
> > >>
> > >> -Rob
> > >
> > > Can someone summarize the sentiment on facebook for those of us who
> > cannot access such social media sites.
> > >
> >
> > Sorry.  It is easy to forget that Facebook is not accessible
> > everywhere.  Here is a copy/paste:
> >
> >
> > Tomáš Kebert B2. Gradient would look inconsistent on different
> > platforms, emboss looks oldschool, and so does the dark gray
> > background of titles.
> >
> > Tomáš Kebert On a different note, I think something like "apply these
> > setting on the style used" would come in handy added to such panel.
> >
> > Martin Schröder i'd vote for proposal 2, but i don't like either of
> > a,b,c. i think b is the most clearly variant, but the groups of
> > buttons should be separated differently (i don't know how...)
> >
> > Shaun Michael Coates Proposal 3 - My eyes easily distinguished content
> > panels with this option.
> >
> > Proposal B - The simple lines as a spliter looks the cleanest.
> >
> > Rob Lewellyn Proposal 3. Nicest contrast!
> >
> > Luis Elizondo B3 is my favorite. B2 it's nice too.
> >
> > Michael Cohen B3 is my pick! It's easy to read and it's separates the
> > buttons nicely.
> >
> > Matthew Nelson B3 BINGO!
> >
> > Mindaugas Baranauskas A3
> >
> > Francesco Esposito even the toolbar at the top of the same color
> > (gray), the pale blue of Windows is horrible
> >
> > Francesco Esposito A2 or B2
> >
> > Raffaello Palandri A1
> >
> > Osvaldo Meloni VERY DIFFICUL diria Tevez !
> >
> > Ariel Shushan B3 - easiest to read
> >
> > Gonzalo Varela B1 for me. Classy, easy on eyes and clear to read, I
> > avoid bright backgrunds in apps that you spend a lot of time workin on
> > it. Keep it simple please.
> >
> > Cátia Gonçalves B2
> >
> >
> >
> So great to have so many feedback!
>
> Here is my preference:
> - B1 for properties panels, which have many buttons and controls.
> - B3 for panels as clipart and template, which have many pictures.
>
> In fact I like all the design options. While existing users' adaption when
> they upgrade to 4.0, I suggest we start from the "normal" style in 4.0, and
> improve gradually per wider feedback after.
>
> - Shenfeng (Simon)
>
>
>
> >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Kevin
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >>> Regards,
> > >>>  Andrea.
> >
>

Re: An idea: Add option to delete profile when uninstalling

[Andrea Pescetti]

On 01/02/2013 Tanja Meece wrote:

I so agree with option of being able to remove your profile while deleting,
that is a suggestion worth listening to.


This is a very good idea indeed. As discussed at FOSDEM (yes, we had 
plenty of technical discussions there!) there is a technical issue in 
implementing it like this in multi-user environments.


Profile creation happens when a user launches OpenOffice for the first 
time, and is an individual setting. Uninstallation is a system-wide 
setting. Profile cleanup is, again, an individual setting and OpenOffice 
has no way at the moment to do something like "Rename the profiles of 
all users".


Something like a command within OpenOffice to reset the profile at the 
next OpenOffice restart could be easier to implement, but less visible. 
Or we can accept that uninstallation offers to reset only the profile of 
the user who is uninstalling (provided that this is still the main user 
and not an "administrator" user he is temporarily impersonating).


Regards,
  Andrea.